Small relevant interaction: Mana Vault's untap trigger occurs on upkeep, but it deals damage on draw. Necropotence causes it controller to skip their draw step entirely. As such, a player with Necropotence in play can't take damage from Mana Vault being tapped.
Wouldn't this also mean that player can't lose by getting milled out? It could probably have been bounced at some point, but that wasn't mentioned and would be important.
@@signisakanades1329 Largely correct - a player with Necropotence in play does not lose the game to mill unless they're forced to draw extra cards somewhere. As you note, though, it's easy to get rid of the Necropotence post Breach/Freeze.
Way late to this interaction, but curious to see if this affects a mana crypt damage? Newer to the game so sorry if it’s a dumb question. Just not sure if crypt does damage before draw step
@@nikolasroberts3241 Mana Crypt's coin flip and subsequent damage occur at the beginning of the upkeep step, as do most similar effects. Mana Vault is a very, very strangely templated card and I can't think of anything else that sees regular play that works similarly to it. No worries about the question, Magic is an incredibly complex game and the best way to learn is by asking more experienced players! One of the most common pieces of advice I see offered is "reading the card explains the card". It's a significant oversimplification and can be perceived as rude, but it's broadly accurate. Magic cards use very precise text for good reason. Reading the card or cards in question carefully and taking a bit of time to think about why they're worded the way they are can clear up most issues. That said, with older cards it's safest to look them up on Gatherer or Scryfall to get their current text since a lot of them have been modified to work properly with modern rules. Essay aside, welcome to Magic!
For the record, here's Mana Vault's current text: "Mana Vault doesn't untap during your untap step. At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay {4}. If you do, untap Mana Vault. At the beginning of your draw step, if Mana Vault is tapped, it deals 1 damage to you. {T}: Add {C}{C}{C}."
The non-include is actually more meaningful than you think, since you could Entomb first for Therapy before reanimating. Then you sacrifice as an additional cost, which can't be answered with snap as it is already in the yard by the time anyone else has priority.
Really great game! Not sure if the editing was different or there was just more chatter but I really enjoyed hearing the thought processes guys were going through trying to figure out optimal plays!
I really enjoy seeing games where people break parity with their stax pieces, really cool synergy! Also Wandering Archaic was awesome here, going right into Kozilek when I get one.
Dylan had Necropotence so he wouldn't have lost to the Brain Freeze. Granted you probably didn't have anything at that point and could have conceded but can't draw so can't lose. And as others have pointed out, he wouldn't have taken any damage from the mana vault being tapped due to no draw phase.
Man, I knew cEDH was wild, but you guys are off the charts. Great work and fantastic content! Side note: Do you think Laelia, The Blade Returned could be viable in cedh?
You guys said it at the end but that was a good showing of galazeth. I think it's underrated, it has the potential to be a really flexible stax commander. Definitely a deck I'll be brewing in my spare time
I do wonder if the win was possible there since wandering archaic states pay two or you get a copy and he would have to pay two for each cast of brain freeze meaning he would need much more mana and therefore a larger graveyard and if he didn't pay you could mill him in response using wandering archaic to then mill him out of the game.... Maybe? Math required...
Milling him only helps him: he's not drawing cards during his turn. (Remember, you don't lose the game if you try to mill from an empty library - only when you try to draw from it.)
I'm working on a high powered casual Galazeth Stax Dragon's Approach deck and so far it's a blast. Love seeing Galazeth on here - I think he has fringe potential. Great game!
Why didn’t cam draw for all of the brain freeze copes? His draw wizards draws him on copies too. Maybe it didn’t matter, but he could’ve drawn a flusterstorm
Can’t tell if Dylan is really tired or high as a kite, either way keep up the good work gents, also I got one of your signed mats and it’s great quality 10/10 would recommend
Love the videos! For me it would a lot if the names of the people were displayed somewhwre, can be very small (outer corner eg). Just to always know where the people that are being thought or talked about are sitting. Enjoy your day!
Liked the conversation today, guys! Do we feel like archaic is going to be a race-to creature for mid/control decks? It seemed to have a big impact on the game here. Also, miss y’all!
" He was doing a little bit of yapin, little bit of talkin this game." " he had alot to say this game, lot to say" Amazing. would love to hear a podcast analyzing the current meta in the voice of a couple of Manhattan bubbies.
A lot of people are talking about how necropotence doesn’t kill you to milling, but I also wanted to ask, how do you determine how far to go with necro? I’ve seen people go to 15 with it, and I’ve seen people go to 3 and I really don’t get what situations cause these choices
Did cam just noxious revival force of will and draw it from the wheel? Did he not have another blue card so he could attempt to counter underworld breach?
Maybe I'm missing something but what does this have to do with the new strixhaven commanders? Any creature in these colors would allow for these plays just about.
Well you see, we are playing strixhaven commanders. In cEDH. Dina is a sac outlet, extus is an infinite mana outlet. Etc. these are things that make good cEDH decks
@@PlaytoWinMTG I just don't really see how the same infinite combos that have been in certain colors for a long time determine which one is best but I'm not into the game like that so you guys would be a better way to judge than I am. And this isn't me not liking the games just a little criticism is all. Thanks for replying though guys.
The Winter Orb was transmuted as part of the cost. For Transmute Artifact, you sacrifice the chosen artifact (The Orb), and fetch an artifact. If that artifact's cmc is higher than the sac'd artifact, you pay the difference. Since Tyler sac'd Orb for Trini, he had to pay 1 mana, which is why he sac'd the treasure to pay.
Galazeth seems like a strictly worse urza, costing an additional colored mana, making a blocker/relevant attacker, having no restriction on what the mana can do, and giving you a place to put it.
You cannot tap the thopters for mana the turn they come out he did it twice. It not Urza the commander gives your artifacts Tap: add a mana for spells.
Small relevant interaction: Mana Vault's untap trigger occurs on upkeep, but it deals damage on draw. Necropotence causes it controller to skip their draw step entirely. As such, a player with Necropotence in play can't take damage from Mana Vault being tapped.
Wouldn't this also mean that player can't lose by getting milled out? It could probably have been bounced at some point, but that wasn't mentioned and would be important.
@@signisakanades1329 Largely correct - a player with Necropotence in play does not lose the game to mill unless they're forced to draw extra cards somewhere. As you note, though, it's easy to get rid of the Necropotence post Breach/Freeze.
Way late to this interaction, but curious to see if this affects a mana crypt damage? Newer to the game so sorry if it’s a dumb question. Just not sure if crypt does damage before draw step
@@nikolasroberts3241 Mana Crypt's coin flip and subsequent damage occur at the beginning of the upkeep step, as do most similar effects.
Mana Vault is a very, very strangely templated card and I can't think of anything else that sees regular play that works similarly to it.
No worries about the question, Magic is an incredibly complex game and the best way to learn is by asking more experienced players!
One of the most common pieces of advice I see offered is "reading the card explains the card". It's a significant oversimplification and can be perceived as rude, but it's broadly accurate.
Magic cards use very precise text for good reason. Reading the card or cards in question carefully and taking a bit of time to think about why they're worded the way they are can clear up most issues. That said, with older cards it's safest to look them up on Gatherer or Scryfall to get their current text since a lot of them have been modified to work properly with modern rules.
Essay aside, welcome to Magic!
For the record, here's Mana Vault's current text:
"Mana Vault doesn't untap during your untap step.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay {4}. If you do, untap Mana Vault.
At the beginning of your draw step, if Mana Vault is tapped, it deals 1 damage to you.
{T}: Add {C}{C}{C}."
The non-include is actually more meaningful than you think, since you could Entomb first for Therapy before reanimating. Then you sacrifice as an additional cost, which can't be answered with snap as it is already in the yard by the time anyone else has priority.
Really great game! Not sure if the editing was different or there was just more chatter but I really enjoyed hearing the thought processes guys were going through trying to figure out optimal plays!
The Prismari elder dragon is strong! Great synergy with stacks pieces and the breach combo.
The Jay and Bob playmats is just awesome!
Jay the Bob-sculptor
They guy that did the art for Mystic Remora did the art for it, if you're interested. He sells them on his website.
@@BigPapaGanda Yeah trow me the link i will check this out!
When I heard Wandering Arkiak I thought Saffronolive was invited to the show.
Great game! You guys are on top of your game, great decks, cool tech 👌 my favorite part if the weekend is new Play to Win videos!
Strixhaven has some really cool casual commanders, not entirely sure if they'll be seen much in CEDH but im lookin forward to it
I’m happy y’all got sponsored y’all deserve it :)
I really enjoy seeing games where people break parity with their stax pieces, really cool synergy! Also Wandering Archaic was awesome here, going right into Kozilek when I get one.
Dylan had Necropotence so he wouldn't have lost to the Brain Freeze. Granted you probably didn't have anything at that point and could have conceded but can't draw so can't lose. And as others have pointed out, he wouldn't have taken any damage from the mana vault being tapped due to no draw phase.
Tyler milled everyone, including himself. I think that means Dylan actually wins - just needed to pass the turn back to Tyler.
Thoroughly enjoyed the extra game chatter this episode.
Man, I knew cEDH was wild, but you guys are off the charts. Great work and fantastic content!
Side note: Do you think Laelia, The Blade Returned could be viable in cedh?
You guys said it at the end but that was a good showing of galazeth. I think it's underrated, it has the potential to be a really flexible stax commander. Definitely a deck I'll be brewing in my spare time
Another super fun video and all around game game! Thanks so much for putting out entertaining and top notch content!
you dont lose life to mana vault if you skip your draw step (necro)
Good catch
@@PlaytoWinMTG You also don't loose to brain freeze combo (mill) as it replaces the draw step. You never draw your library so you don't loose ...
I do wonder if the win was possible there since wandering archaic states pay two or you get a copy and he would have to pay two for each cast of brain freeze meaning he would need much more mana and therefore a larger graveyard and if he didn't pay you could mill him in response using wandering archaic to then mill him out of the game.... Maybe?
Math required...
Milling him only helps him: he's not drawing cards during his turn. (Remember, you don't lose the game if you try to mill from an empty library - only when you try to draw from it.)
I'm working on a high powered casual Galazeth Stax Dragon's Approach deck and so far it's a blast. Love seeing Galazeth on here - I think he has fringe potential. Great game!
Great game. Why isn’t Cremate or Soul Guided Lantern played more in cEDH?
No space for them and if they don't have a target they're pretty bad. Sometimes there are better alternatives too
This game is definitely why it’s game 3. Dylan is full blown tilt mode during the commentary and we’ve allllllll definitely been there!
Why didn’t cam draw for all of the brain freeze copes? His draw wizards draws him on copies too. Maybe it didn’t matter, but he could’ve drawn a flusterstorm
Nate only got one copy. The storm trigger is on cast, not copy
Why crack two treasures for winter orb when prismari would have let you just tap them and keep them?
Prismari's ability only allows you to spend the mana on instants/sorceries, so that wasn't an option
Can’t tell if Dylan is really tired or high as a kite, either way keep up the good work gents, also I got one of your signed mats and it’s great quality 10/10 would recommend
Love your channel guys.. best great games& content. Can't wait to get back into playing at my local LGS
Very good showing and great game play with a few hiccups. Keep up the great work you guys are doing!
You guys should do who is the best cedh commander from each standard set. Wilds of eldraine vs March of the Machine vs Kamigawa vs Strixhaven etc etc
Great showing gang !
Love the videos! For me it would a lot if the names of the people were displayed somewhwre, can be very small (outer corner eg). Just to always know where the people that are being thought or talked about are sitting. Enjoy your day!
"God Tyler is so freaking cool" true
Liked the conversation today, guys! Do we feel like archaic is going to be a race-to creature for mid/control decks? It seemed to have a big impact on the game here. Also, miss y’all!
congratz tyler on the slick win, and some sneaky politics to boot!
" He was doing a little bit of yapin, little bit of talkin this game." " he had alot to say this game, lot to say" Amazing. would love to hear a podcast analyzing the current meta in the voice of a couple of Manhattan bubbies.
A lot of people are talking about how necropotence doesn’t kill you to milling, but I also wanted to ask, how do you determine how far to go with necro? I’ve seen people go to 15 with it, and I’ve seen people go to 3 and I really don’t get what situations cause these choices
So wouldnt dylan not lose the life of the mana vault as the damage is in the draw phase due to necro?
"Tyler's so frikkin cool" says the Tylers in the audience. :V
Where are you guys in the us? Do you play paper cedh with fans of the channel?
Can't watch right now but I appreciate your beautiful faces!
may we get the decklists of the decks played?
Dylan: nice transition at 7:53.
Sooooo...mana vault doesn’t ping you if you have Necropotence out bc Vault pings at Draw Step & Necro Skips Draw Step...
6:10 cam doesnt have the green too cast lanowar elves, which is completly game changing
Yeah he does, Fellwar Stone sees a City of Brass so it can tap for all colors.
@@Halinn im an idiot, i thought fellwar stone only cares about ur own lands
Wait, technically you, Dylan, would not have died in your draw step HAHAHAHAHA
Haha yeah necropotence...
At 10:50 the dockside extorsionist dies, no makes any difference btw :B Great match!
Did cam just noxious revival force of will and draw it from the wheel? Did he not have another blue card so he could attempt to counter underworld breach?
Yo I'm in the discord is there any way I can watch when you play in there?
Are all of the cards you guys play proxies? Because from my point of view they do not which is wild
i need to know where that jay and silent bob mat came from i need it
Love the channel dudes!
Maybe I'm missing something but what does this have to do with the new strixhaven commanders? Any creature in these colors would allow for these plays just about.
Well you see, we are playing strixhaven commanders. In cEDH. Dina is a sac outlet, extus is an infinite mana outlet. Etc. these are things that make good cEDH decks
@@PlaytoWinMTG I just don't really see how the same infinite combos that have been in certain colors for a long time determine which one is best but I'm not into the game like that so you guys would be a better way to judge than I am. And this isn't me not liking the games just a little criticism is all. Thanks for replying though guys.
that archaic put in work! :D
Best 3 color partner deck featuring thrasios tvesh
My boy Tyler back at it again winning games. Stay saucy brother
If the treasure was sacing to pay for transmute artifact instead of the winter orb, why was winter orb still in the graveyard?
The Winter Orb was transmuted as part of the cost. For Transmute Artifact, you sacrifice the chosen artifact (The Orb), and fetch an artifact. If that artifact's cmc is higher than the sac'd artifact, you pay the difference. Since Tyler sac'd Orb for Trini, he had to pay 1 mana, which is why he sac'd the treasure to pay.
Galazeth seems like a strictly worse urza, costing an additional colored mana, making a blocker/relevant attacker, having no restriction on what the mana can do, and giving you a place to put it.
Unfortunately , only one land for Cam. It was an explosive start!
There was a necropotence in game so that player shouldn't have lost at his draw step.. Right?
Tyler could've bounced Necro in theory
That imp seal should have costed five with instead if three?
i lost the point, why is protean hulk on graveyard ?
Everyone’s voice sounds the same to me I can never tell who is talking in the games
What i don't know is what was he gonna get with protean hulk to win the game???
first! LETS GO
Fine I'll be second
Sigh should I really say "third".
They always say first as if its impressive, but if I say last nobody sees it...
Sick
You cannot tap the thopters for mana the turn they come out he did it twice. It not Urza the commander gives your artifacts Tap: add a mana for spells.
The thopters have haste
Due to the abuse of dockside, it hurts my soul watching Galazeth's treasures get cracked lol
With trini in play can he afford to cast brainfreeze in the end since led nets 0?
He shut if off by tapping it.
@@MrDisphoric ah one of the old artifacts that work that way
In cEDH the commanders change, but the combos don't.
Y is it that almost all the decks are the same???? Different commanders but same everything else??? Crazy
Good cards are good no matter who the commander is
Jokes on you, I already use the DS Nests.
Cam should not have copied the wheel, it created no discernible benefit for cam.
Barrin can bounce archaic too xD
B E G I N
Tyler OP plz nerf
But Codie lol
LOTTTSOZAAY
If you guys could stop cursing so much this content would be so much better