the "few things" vs "few trees" distinction makes a HUGE difference, not only because he's killing more than just trees, but also because he knows and acknowledges the fact that hes killing more than just trees.
i think "who cares if a few trees are dying" implies that he's choosing to ignore the situation as a whole and he's ignorant as to how his actions are rippling out. "who cares if a few things are dying" shows that he knows exactly what he's doing, but he just doesn't care.
To add to this, remember, it wasn't "few things," it was "some things." "A few trees" and "some things" are a huge contrast. He knows the damage is large but is ignoring it.
@@sambradley9091 yeaaah some is much more vague than a few. a few trees brings like,, 3 or so individual trees to mind. some things could be like,, an entire species
I remember seeing this comment on Biggering, "What's wrong producers, or whoever was in charge? Hit too close to home?" and I think about that sometimes
Biggering is pretty clearly the remnant of an earlier, darker draft of the script. You couldn't just plug a song that sounds like that and includes the line "who cares if some THINGS are dying" (rather than "trees") into a movie with the tone of the final version. I'd love if an earlier script draft were leaked, like the original Gremlins draft that was more violent. The Thneedville demo having Ted interested in getting a tree so he can be the first kid on his block to have one, rather than so he can get a girl to like him, also indicates that the story used to be very different.
+Jodgee SAME! Just cuz some people are over sensitive about how dark The Biggering is, that doesn't mean people who like it shouldn't be allowed to have it I'm pretty sure some little kids could handle it too, cuz in the 80's and 90's little kids were shown way darker shit in kid's movies.
Have you seen any children's movie ever? The best ones from the eighties and nineties always shoehorned in some dark skit, it was sometimes out of place but it was usually the best part of the movie
By what I got from listening to the demos it sounded like ted would have go through his own greed while listening to the once-lers story I bet he would reliaze that while trees are important the reason he wanted one in the first place was wrong
If Illumination bothered to give Once-ler’s devolution of character more than three minutes they could have kept both songs. Start with *How Bad Can I Be?* , with the protagonist cheerfully jumping around, wondering if the growth of his corporation is really that bad of a thing. Keep the “who cares if a few trees are dying”, cause really, the damage is not that visible at first. It’s just a dozen of trees, there’s more. And then, after the persona of Once-ler is established, proceed with *Biggering* . At first he underplayed the damage to comfort himself, but now it’s too glaring to be ignored and he doesn’t care. Now finish with “who cares if some things are dying” for some juicy cinematic parallels and highlight of the nature of the slippery slope of pride and greed Gosh, bruh, so much potential straight outta the window. Biggering is a bop, plus the music and vocals are much stronger and more aggressive, it could have been such a beautiful shift of tone
I agree so much it should've shown him thinking "whatever its fine" then progressing to "what have i done, but i need even more now its not my problem" when it is out of selfish pride . But they didn't think of that, they needed it to be further from it being about them almost.
How Bad Can I Be is The Once-ler denying what he's doing is wrong. Biggering is The Once-ler admitting what he's doing is wrong, and that he doesn't care.
I decided to listen to Biggering after hearing someone talk about it, and after it was over, I thought "this is... honestly too intelligent for a modern kid's film." I mean, it shouldn't be, but somehow it is.
@@FlyingFocs So was Prince of Egypt but that didn't stop 8 year old me ( even me now ) from enjoying the film. Plus kids content can still get dark without leaving all its whimsical and goofiness, look at Kung Fu Panda 2 or you know, the original Lorax for example. If producers couldn't handle making a movie about consumerism destroying the planet a bit more mature then maybe they shouldn't make the movie in the first place
I seriously just found out about it, and hell the shame that i felt. I feel like Biggering shouldve been it because it really reflects the problem more broadly. The problem is, anyone can get pride and greed, and it usually happens when we actually become successful and end up wanting more and more. HBCIB was okay, but i think Biggering shouldve been a superior choice because it gives a more real depiction of what companies/industries do. They know the harm theyve caused, but they dont care. Seriously, it was obvious that Biggering was the superior song. What went through their heads when they decided stuffs?
I really like Biggering. It is a great song. I actually like more the original demo songs of the Lorax. It is more varied, better for characterization overall, and with nice lyrics. From the amazing Biggering to the funny as hell Onceler traveling madness.
I was listening to the Lorax OST and in the Thneedville demo, Ted starts singing about all the stuff he doesn't have and that all he needs to be happy is "all the stuff i never nad" and i think that wouldve been an excellent foil to biggering, especially how the onceler talks about all that he ever needed.
It really shows how easily pride and greed can make you want more and more - Ted growing up in a society filled with that mentality and how the taste of it can push even a humble person to become destructive
I wish they stuck with the idea of Ted learning that materialism is destructive by scrapping the crush narrative and having Ted want a tree because there aren’t any left and making the Once-ler a true villain but the script was scrapped because it was deemed “too relentlessly dark”, a shame really
Edgy noodle how bad can I be= a dumbass song that tries to make a point about “pollution is bad fellow kids” but fails and ends up being a pretentious song that just doesn’t work.
@@kevinbacon5492 It's more of one half of the song. I see biggering would've had a better effect if it had How Bad to start it off and let Biggering be the bigger darker brother of the two, a way to give more contrast to the other.
I kinda love this explanation, it's a bit weird that the Onceler would tell Ted everything he did in the worst light possible, that song was kinda his attempt to justify it to ted. Even though we all love to talk about how much better "I sit down with myself is" than How Bad, they both play the same purpose. To say, "This is what's gonna happen, whether I did it or not."
I actually really like both songs, but I do feel like Biggering would’ve worked better in the movie. It gets across the message and gives the Once-ler more character. I have to say that HBCIB is really catchy, though. HBCIB is my favorite song in the movie, but I do prefer Biggering for the story.
I would argue that, with the movie structured as it is, Biggering would have been too dark a tone to fit with the rest of the movie. I mean, those bears are made to have the same childish energy as creatures such as the Minions or Rabbids and such; I don't think they would translate into Biggering. This isn't to say Biggering is bad, it's not, but it is clearly made for a different type of movie.
@@theguywithsomething8634 a different type of movie that the lorax was, in fact, going to be. i won't go into detail but. the original movie was supossed to be way darker, similar to the book.
When I hear it I feel that "biggering" was the climax for "how bad can I be", make it from the naive Once-ler to the nasty evil person one can become if they let creed and pride let loose.
you like 'how bad can I be' just because its catchy, it is actually a bad song because it portrays the Once-ler as someone who isn't at fault for his actions and doesn't understand what he's doing, but he knows exactly what he's doing, he just doesn't care for the long term. Which is the same exact BS corporations say when they do something wrong: "we didn't know lead was poisonous, even though we bribed scientists and government departments to deny the fact, we're innocent we tell you!".
@@ALIEN-DUDEI think the air still exists, because trees aren't the only things thst make air. He did destroy envirement but what about algae, and more. I think he's just getting empty bottles and selling them. He's doing this because THEY don't think air still exists
I’m pretty sure a big part is that the air is fine, I saw a theory on it. I mean it’s an open place (no roof) and there’s no produced air outside, but people still spend time outside without smelling anything like what Ted mentions once he leaves the town. So yeah I think O’hare is just screwing with these people or something
How bad can I be does one thing right, in that it shows that someone can tell themselves all manner of excuses as for why it's alright for them to take more and more. But it fails in that it refuses to examine the damages done to the animals and the environment. Literally all it does is show goop being poured on the fish, the birds getting hit with smog, and the trees getting cut down. The biggest and in my opinion the best line in Biggering is straight up the realization that things, animals, are dying because of his actions. And he doesn't care about that. His need for money has overtaken his need to ensure that the animals that he made friends with, are safe and able to survive while he makes a comfortable living for himself. Add in the fact that the Onceler is no longer the 'innocent entrepreneur turned corporate head', but is the 'innocent entrepreneur who was totally going to do as he said, until his family came along and badgered him into growing the company' It maintains the Onceler as an innocent. It's not *his* fault, per se, his manipulative bitchy mother came along and made him feel like it was all for her, he needed to do it or she'd be upset. "You've gotta do what's best for the business. . .And your momma." Which is manipulative as shit and the Onceler is just a helpless stooge that does as his mother says. He's innocent, he's not getting the corporate greed, he's trying to take care of his family! That's only natural, you can't blame him for that, can you? It should be noted a message that sometimes family is wrong, and sometimes family uses you is important, but it's *NOT THE MESSAGE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET FROM THE LORAX* The message you get is supposed to be 'Hey y'know guys maybe if we could reign back the corporate greed, maybe we wouldn't be in quite the huge fucking mess we're in'. Biggering lays it all out on the line. People can say HBCIB is subtle, and supposed to be satire, but the impact of Biggering is like a goddamn anvil to the head, in a way that HBCIB cannot possibly even hope to match. It explains how people work. How people tend to get comfortable. . .And then want more. And take more and more pride in all their stuff. That they never knew they 'needed'. It turns the Lorax from a quiet begger and pleader, who doesn't even get a line in HBCIB, into a force. Someone trying to convince the Onceler that no, this is too much. He's hurting people, he's hurting the Lorax's friends. This is unsustainable, and if you keep feeding that need to get bigger, that need to keep biggering, it's all going to fall apart.
I feel that there is a little off about your view. The Onceler IS a bad guy, and it IS his fault... he grew more and more powerful and became more and more of a jerk. He didn't stay innocent. It was just that, once he lost everything, the people that actually loved him were too hurt to accept him again, and the people that pretended to love him no longer had a reason to. How Bad Can I Be, I feel represents HIS OWN view of the situation better, while Biggering shows the perspective of the victims... He doesn't view himself as the villain until it's too late... So I feel each song actually shows a different perspective. His mom wasn't at fault, she was just the catalyst. He himself was at fault, but in his own head, he still felt that he was the same person the Lorax and crew loved, not realizing that, he wasn't...
@@TheDeathmail It just feels too safe sadly. It just sounds exactly what the corporate wants to hear, making it trendy, catchy pop music score that is marketable from the statistics. It just continues making the excuse of the "they didn't know it could be harmful" message the corporates try to paint themselves. Bigerring is embodying the message of what Seuss wanted to send. That corporations know what they are doing is harmful, but they dont care. Moral is not their priority, they only want all the money. And yes, kids can handle the rock opera music and a much darker tone, if that wasn't the case they would have been scarred from the hunchback of notre dame Hellfire. I sure I wasn't when it came out.
The Lorax movie came close to the message of the book, but faceplanted right at the end because it "needed" to be easily digestible. Making the Onceler an everyman that people can relate to is a good move if he has agency. Biggering is about a Onceler who has agency and has gone down the slippery slope of greed and pride. At the start, he can still turn back, but doesn't because he "needs" to grow his business. However, in the movie, the Onceler doesn't have agency, and thus Biggering doesn't work. How Bad Can I Be has some subtle jabs at the shallow excuses and deflections that corporations use to defend their actions, but you really need to sit down and analyze it. Biggering is in your face about it's message. There are no excuses, deflections, or subtle jabs. It is a song about pure, unabashed greed, and how it corrupts people. There are many things wrong with the Lorax movie, but the handling of the Onceler is probably its greatest sin.
Choosing the catchy, easy song instead of the challenging, thought provoking one, yep, that sound like Illumination alright, this movie could've been so much better
It's a kids movie bro I don't think "the thought provoking one" kids are gonna enjoy because they're like 9 and i doubt their thinkin much of the song lyrics. Also, "the thought provoking one"? dude cmon you gotta be joking that shit is more on the nose than having to think about it just look at the lyrics. I mean both songs are on the nose but cmon, i wouldn't call one more thought provoking than the other. i would say the songs are like basically the same just like a genre shift
@@demontamerbf18 yeah seeing as how im a kid myself, i would say they’re pretty dumb. I probably watched this when i was 7-9 so i didnt even know this was an “anti-corporation” movie until i listened to hbcib like 7 times and realized the message.
How Bad Can I Be isn't trying to justify the Oncler's destruction of the environment; it's the Oncler trying to justify the destruction to HIMSELF, and we as the audience are supposed to see that as an empty lie.
I agree. I think the problem with that, though, is what Charles pointed out above: unlike Biggering, it doesn't address the moral conflict directly, just alludes to it. Biggering focuses on _why_ the Onceler is doing this, and instead of presenting it as a jokey comedic thing, it presents it as a serious thing. Idk.
I agree; that's what HBCIB is _trying_ to do. The problem is that it fails to realize that a song the audience is meant to see as an empty lie needs to be written differently than one they're supposed to agree with. Yes, people (even children) can think for themselves, but if they are thinking "This song is wrong" while the movie says "This song is right," the dissonance is going to make for a worse movie.
@Adrift at C Yes, I think the actual problem is that the song is too catchy and upbeat despite being about a pretty serious topic. 'Biggering' would have been much better in getting the moral across because it's somber and thought-provoking. I think a possible reason people prefer 'How Bad Can I Be?' may be because many of them don't think children can handle serious and thought-provoking stuff.
@YoungOasis and why did they put it for little kids instead of making it 14+? Because they didn’t wanna traumatize children with the hardcore truth of our existence
it was cut out because it was "too dark." What illumination? Did biggering hit too close to home for you? I mean think about it, by replacing biggering with "how bad can I be?" they were BIGGERING by making the message watered down and completely ignoring the point to save their own asses.
That isn't what biggering means. They were just going for a poppy mass appeal movie, that's all it was. The execs don't give a fuck about the movie itself, to them it's just a vehicle for more money.
I would say that How Bad Can I Be is catchier, and fully inhabits the Onceler's perspective, starting at a point at which he really isn't that bad, and shows how he doesn't see any difference between his earlier and more innocent and sustainable behavior and his later abuses of the environment. He denies the Lorax's warnings that his business could be destructive , and continues this denial even as it becomes obviously false. Because of how fully it reinforces the Onceler's uncomplicated perspective, it lacks depth and substance, similarly it's perspective of the Lorax as a petty annoyance lines up with how the Onceler would perceive him at this point in his life. In contrast, Biggering approaches it from an outside perspective, the lyrics are still largely from The Onceler's perspective, but the tone is much more ominous, contrasting the carefree facade he's trying to project. It is less catchy and focused, but deeper and more substantive. While HBCIB is focused on a single perspective, hoping that it's hypocrisy will be made apparent by the lyrics and visuals, Biggering is an interplay of perspectives. The Onceler says he's happy, that he's gratified, that if he just gets a bigger office, a bigger desk, everything will be hunky dory, but the grungy melody and baseline gives the lie to that idea, shows how deeply unhappy he is. How he is consumed by his greed and hunger for ever more, how the constant growth he thinks will make him happy is actually making him miserable, like an addiction. When the Lorax makes his case, we listen to him not just because of the music building behind his words and the choir echoing him, but because the music has been telling us this the whole time. How Bad Can I Be presents the situation as a comedy while Biggering presents it as a tragedy. The film forces the main thread of the book into a single musical number, focusing instead on the basically fine world before this environmental devastation, and the empty, plastic, but still livable world built on the ashes of the living world. If the film was going to shrink from it's own main point in this way, Biggering is indisputably the better song, as it fully encapsulates the complexity of the situation, but ideally a single musical number would not be burdened with encapsulating the entire plot of the book. I like How Bad Can I Be, but ideally it would be just one part of the story of the Onceler's fall from grace, counterpointed with a song from the Lorax explaining the flaws in this perspective, and a song from the Onceler once the last tree has been cut about his regret that he didn't stop sooner. In this way each of the perspectives that make up Biggering could be given the same clarity and purity of expression as the Onceler's pride, greed, and willful ignorance of the consequences of his actions is in HBCIB. How Bad Can I Be is catchy and focused , while Biggering is deep and dense. How Bad Can I be replacing Biggering is just another consequence of a movie that is supposed to be about industrialism and its consequences flinching as intensely as possible from actually depicting industrialism and its consequences.
I actually liked HBCIB; it's kind of air-headed and vapid, yeah, but I never got the impression from it that we were supposed to agree with the Onceler justifying his actions to himself. Collecting the charity proceeds for himself, framing the Lorax's endorsement, even just the crazy dutch angles that put us at the mercy of his chopping machines, he's thoroughly villainized in the song. However, Biggering is much better -- musically, lyrically, and tonally. It *is* the rebuttal to HBCIB, and it's a showstopping one at that. I think it should have been used alongside HBCIB, as a callback. That way, the catchy emptiness of HBCIB would be properly put in its place, and moreover, the Onceler would be explicitly shown as self-deluded.
It's about plausible deniability. Remember that whole plot thread they added in the film, that has nothing to do with the book, where the Onceler's family COERCES him into chopping down the trees? That was included so that all the devastation that happens after wouldn't be entirely the Onceler's fault. Which destroys the message - because in reality, it IS all our fault. We knew using that plastic straw was bad. We did it anyway. BP knew about the oil spill; they carried on anyway. Nestle knew exactly what they were doing when they stole an entire town's water supply and sold it back to them. They're not stupid. HBCIB is trying to sell us something that does not happen in real life. In real life, people KNOW when they're making these choices. They weren't forced; they weren't coerced. They weighed the options and they consciously decided the environment wasn't as important; or that people weren't as important. Biggering talks about that concept - and it was removed in favour of a safe, comforting lie.
Biggering is so huge and dramatic and dark and I legitimately want to make an entire cartoon around that version. It is, also, in fact, METAL AS F**K. 🤘
This shows that Illumination still has the same good writers that made the original despicable me, they just don't use them. The original movie was supposed to be about corporate consumerism and the greed of businesses, how even a likable person can turn out to be a monster if enough money is involved. Sounds similar to something you might have expected from 2000s Dreamworks, who are now also under illumination's thumb. But they dumbed it down repeatedly, changing ted's motivation from consumerism based greed into a childhood crush, changing the onceler from a truly corrupted individual at the end into a naive and ignorant destroyer. If the original story was kept, this would have been considered the second good movie that illumination made. But funnily enough, the ideals of consumerism that the original screenplay warns against ended up ending this message because it was "too dark" and "not marketable", instead going with a light message of basic environmentalism. Then, once it came out, the Lorax had 70 corporate tie-ins. A real shame.
I'd die for a version of the movie like this. It's sad because this was probably early drafts of the script and the producers made it fluffier and nicer "for the kids". This could've been something special, whoever composed this song knew their shit.
@@pizzawashere8940 I would have liked to see the movie with its original script since it would give us the message that dr seuss wanted to give us in the book I would die to see that version of the old script
I really like this interpretation because it shows that both songs have their own points that their making; that their not just a better/worse version of eachother
I think that The Prince of Egypt has one of the best sound tracks for an animated movie. Most of the orchestral music was composed by Hans Zimmer, and the songs are very well written too. I highly suggest watching it if you haven't seen it already or just listen to the sound track. The Hunchback of Notre Dame, also has a great sound track. When movies have good music it almost has the same effect as listening to a good concept album for me haha.
Biggering weirdly reminds me of Hellfire in the sense that both Frollo and the Onceler attempt to justify their horrible actions (Frollo claiming that it was not his fault and blaming Esmarelda, the Devil and even God for his lust, and the Onceler claiming that he needs to keep biggering and destroying the environment or he "will become another's lunch") There is more to both songs (like the lorax warning the Onceler about pride although his warning gets ignored by the Onceler and the guard interrupting Hellfire to tell Frollo that Esmeralda escaped,who is heavily implied to be an angel sent to give Frollo a chance to forget his obsession and his sin before being called an idiot and cast aside sealing his fate) although I have already written an essay and cant be assed to continue.
I feel like if you changed a couple of lyrics, Biggering, with its darker and more solemn tone could actually have been used after How Bad Could I Be, showing how Onceler reflects upon his actions when looking at the desolate landscape that he created, realizing how corrupt he became and how he never meant to take it this far, but what's done is done and now he has to cope with his actions
Biggering actually FITS with the plot, it gives a reason for why trees matter. The onceler is supposed to represent companys and how they abuse the environment. How bad can I be is just... a mediocre version of biggering, its just answering a question with- well a question. It doesn't fit with the plot as well. They're just to scared to admit this is how companies work and left it.
I feel like having both songs in the movie, would have been really good, I think listening to HBCIB first, and in the background see Lorax speaking, but we as the audience, not be able to listen to him, and then immediately going to Biggering and be able to listen to Lorax and see that HBCIB is basically a combination of a PR stunt and a justification of the Onceler actions to himself, plus it would feel like that scene in Mulan where they are singing A girl worth fighting for and them the destruction caused by war and see the difference in the mood of the scenes
Honestly,biggering made me cry. I usually don't cry but I also noticed that his guitar represented him,his personality. Towards the end,at the peak of his evil,it stopped,representing that he was not who he once was,and is now totally consumed by his greed and pride. Biggering is a powerful song,something that the makers of the Lorax said was "too scary for little kids",when in reality,they thought it was too real.
I think "who cares if SOME THINGS are dying" also includes humans as well. Health hazards from air pollution comes to mind. Side tangent: the chorus is more powerful in Buggering than in the latter. It just reminds me of Queen and Panic.
"How bad can I be" isn't even that bad of a song in a bubble imo, but they should have at least made it out as the onesler was actually just making excuses and trying to convince himself that it's not his fault and that it's not so bad. But they don't do that, and it literally comes off as the the movie itself being delusional. But it was just so tonally off for what it should have been. "Biggering" had the potential of being one of biggest/best villain song ever. Something on the lines of Hellfire from Notredame. I genuinely think it's that good. Such a missed opportunity.
To be honest, I really love "how bad can I be", as it is catchy, upbeat and easy to sing along, but DAMN! "Biggering" is just in another level. Less a song to sing along and more one you hear with intent, that requires your attention, that questions everything.
When i heard biggering, it gave me literal chills, especially when i hear "Who cares if somethings are dying" Its not just trees, It can be animals, environment, etc and especially humans-
Many have philosophized over the ideas of whether or not human kind’s morals are objective or subjective. How Bad Can You Be says you are naturally evil under a certain set of circumstances. Biggering says you can choose whether you’re good or bad. I think we both know what’s the more mature and better song.
Honestly the Lorax should've had a darker tone and stuck with biggering, I know the movie was made for kids but the message they tried to send was much darker than they could. they basically took a skull and crossbones and turned it into sugar and candy and dressed it up to lose it's meaning. I kinda like how bad can I be however biggering hits harder not only in tone but also in message, it would've been more impactful and done more for the film than what we got in the final version.
The way I can put it: The original soundtrack was trying to accurately represent the book and show the message, while the final soundtrack tries to prevent parents from getting mad because their kid is crying.
I like How Bad Can I Be, and of course the Onceler is trying to justify things to himself, because what he's doing feels so amazing he can't stop, or don't want to. and the poppy catchiness fits with his mindset where it's so easy to lose himself in it than thinking too much about it (maybe it could have worked to have a darker reprise, though, or something in-between). although what I don't like is how they make the Lorax so... petty (which is a problem in general, how it plays the Lorax for laughs until the moment he leaves), so there I agree that the other song is stronger in how it includes the Lorax, and makes me wonder how the rest of the movie could have been if they went with this instead. feels like it would be less flippant at least.
Even leaving aside meaning, rock opera like Biggering is sorely missing these days. You get bubblegum pop like How Bad every day on the radio, re-introduce some WEIGHT and grit and actually make a statement, and get some kids into ROCK
I think both songs should have been in the film, though the film would have needed a rework for that. "How Bad Can I Be?" could have been the song of the modern-day protagonist, who is starting down the same path as the Onceler. "Biggering" could then have been a response to "How Bad Can I Be?", the Onceler answering the protagonist's question by [musically] explaining his own past/greed/pride/mistakes.
The one big thing about this song is that Illumination probably wouldn’t further have a foundation to produce movies if Biggering was the song used instead of HBCIB. Especially in 2012. In today’s day, it probably would have survived. But the fact that Biggering is a target to not only the Onceler, but also the corporations that are absentmindedly affecting the public negatively and their factories and industrial plants tearing apart our planet. Hollywood, without a doubt, would have plummeted Illumination before it could produce another film. And this film probably wouldn’t exist. They did their best to accommodate for the sensitive parents and impressionable children with HBCIB. It did make the movie a whole lot more cheesy to me after I heard that, though. Biggering would have stuck for years in a more striking and hardcore way. “HBCIB is just an easy song while Biggering challenges you.” I absolutely agree. Of course everyone remembers HBCIB because it has the notes that appeal to the younger ears and has an easily memorable chorus. But Biggering develops. It makes you want to sing it like a broadway performer with greed and pride behind your vocals. It’s that kind of an angry, nasty, true, aggressive, relentless song.
imo the best corporate villian song would be a mix of the 2,a catchy song like HBCIB slowly falling apart and darkening into Buggering with the same motifs as the catchy part,and then a reprise later fully rock opera esque
Me when I first heard "How Bad Can I Be": OMG I LOVE THIS SONG IT'S AMAZING OMG (I was like 7 or 9 okay) Me when I heard "Biggering": ...I have made a crucial mistake. WHY didn't anyone tell me about this MASTERPIECE SOONER?! THIS SONG IS OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
Its actually kinda funny. The whole issue could have been solved by treating thneeds like diamonds, and treating the trees like crops to be farmed. Hoarde the thneeds and release them in small increments and inflate the prices over time. This would create the added benefit of their increased value, which customers in the past can use to profit from, almost like turning Thneeds into stocks. Then isolate the woodland into a series of areas designated for milling and regrowth, respectively, then farm them like you do any other crop. The Lorax wasnt just a nature spirit, he was hiding the secret to some real hardcore biggering.
The idea is that theed's became a fad. Like how meme popularity expires within a week. He was cashing in on the popularity of thneeds. And funny enough after the trees all died, no one cared about thneeds anymore
The first time I heard Biggering, my first thought was ‘I love it when someone goes absolutely HAM in a kids movie even though they didn’t have to’. I can’t believe how heavy, and intense, and aggressive it is in the back half, starting with the Lorax’s verse. It kicks. your. ass. I’m honestly amazed it made it as far as being fully recorded and produced. We’re blessed just to have it finished honestly. I like HBCIB in its own right, it’s catchy as hell and all, and I like how you can hear a remnant of Biggering’s ominous, heavy choir and instrumentation in the background of the last verse. But at the end of the day, it has no teeth. And it s definitely no rock opera masterpiece like Biggering is.
How Bad Can I Be is catchy, but Biggering is powerful. Biggering does such a good job building up in it's momentum, gradually becoming an epic mess of a song that still manages to be such a slap. And I think we can all agree that between the two songs, when they shared lyrics, Biggering did it better. obviously there's the "some things are dying" vs "a few trees are dying" comparison, but another that really sticks out to me is the "become someone else's lunch" line. In How Bad Can I Be it's just a quirky, annoying little throwaway line, but in Biggering it feels more powerful and threatening. It's like saying "Haha, get eaten lol" vs "If you can't keep up, then you'll get stomped into the ground". But that's just how I see it anyway
I really want a mashup between the naive "How Bad Can I Be" slowly transitioning to "Biggering" as the wounds start to widen and the scabs left behind not allowed to heal. But then I realized that that is musically almost impossible since the songs were so tonally different (maybe a transition scene to stick these songs together but-) in the end, we have to pick one. The Moral of The Story or The Catchiness of The Song
I love biggering WAY more than the how bad can i be. The darker tone sets the mood way better, and tells you how serious it is... it also just sounds way better in general.
Honestly first time I saw "How bad can I be" I found it catchy. It was a neat song. But then I heard biggering. And I gotta say it hits way harder and it just sounds way better.
@@rainingtacos3135 Right. The Lorax actively confronts the Onceler about how he's ruining the valley and corrupting himself, while in HBCIB, the Lorax is instead constantly being pushed around by the song, never says a word, and never directly confronts the Onceler.
I feel like “Biggering” put the Onceler in a more story accurate light. The Onceler in the book wasn’t oblivious. He knew exactly what he was doing by constantly expanding the operation well past sustainability. The final film paints him as oblivious or in denial from peer pressure, which just didn’t feel right. I honestly would have far preferred his final redemption arc if they had stuck with the lawful evil depiction they originally wanted to use.
Things dying. Trees dying. It's a one-word difference but the difference is huge. Trees are one thing but the book was just as concerned about, maybe MORE concerned about, the animals and the air quality and all the rest of it. Biggering then isn't just superior musically or for bringing the Lorax in to argue but for lyrically hedging closer to the source material and thereby covering a greater and more nuanced scope. Fuck, this movie was awful.
the movie had an incredible potential to be one of the best movies if the original script and the demo songs had stayed, we would have made it a gem of a movie
Pride works better as a flaw for the onceler than greed. Consider it. You have a guy who was bullied by his entire family, nothing he could do was ever good enough. Then, just once, he does something worth praising. He pushes and pushes that one thing, he begins biggering. He has been starved of pride for so long he gorges himself on it. The family doesn’t make him greedy, but they can urge him towards pride. To a lesser extent, biggering sounds close to beginning, to me at least. And the song kinda reflects that. Biggering shows the process of being a startup company that becomes huge. How bad can I be, just revels in being big. How bad can I be shows you a villain, but biggering shows you that the villain can start small, just like you.
The use of “survival of the fittest” is saying you need to “claw and bite and punch” in order to survive, not that some animals are predators are some are prey.
I'm pretty sure Biggering was cut because it wouldn't be able to just stick with as many people. As well as the fact that it was ‘too dark’, and they also wanted to make the Once-ler relatable. I feel like Biggering is one of the most popular cut songs from The Lorax (2012). Plus, Biggering would resemble the Once-ler in the book way more. In Biggering, the Once-ler knows what he's doing. This makes sense (at least in The Lorax (2012)) because he wanted the acceptance of his family. *Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.*
The one thing I’d like to add is that the final note is amazing. Guitar and chorus going higher and higher until the choir gives out and the guitar warbles out shortly after. Natural dies and then so does the man made.
In Hbcib Onceler believes he is in no wrong and whatever he is doing isn't actually bad, while in biggering Onceler straight up says "our company is an animal trying to survive" and "who cares if a few THINGS are dying" meaning he's aware he is killing off not just the trees but also the animal friends he made but he simply doesn't care because of pride and greed. Another element I liked is in biggering Lorax is trying to save Onceler, from his own greed, rather than just saving the trees
I once saw someone saying that "Biggering" was what really happened and that "How Bad Can I Be?" was what the Onceler decided to tell Ted so he didn't come off as the true villain he was
The main reason this song was probably removed because song was practically calling out the companies and really shows the major flaws in capitalism. The literal message of the Lorax was basically calling out on. Capitalism because of its flaws and how greedy companies can get. The companies probably didn’t like it because of the whole message of greedy companies and they would probably be seen as the Onceler and people wouldn’t like them anymore. Biggering feels really realistic on how pride can take ahold of greed and cause greed to control someone. The Once ler literally says that he needs to expand so his company doesn’t get outmatched. Overall I find it really hypocritical that they removed a S teir villain song that basically helped explain the major flaws in captialism and would have been perfect for a anti capitalist movie, and yet they removed it because of their pride of being a successful company
Both of the songs work better when played right after another, in HBCIB he is trying to convince himself that he’s still in the right in biggering he is basically right into being the bad guy it would be good character development for him to go from not caring trees are dying to not caring if anything is dying
Meanwhile in an alternate universe... "Hey, you listen to that deleted song from the Lorax?" "Yeah, pretty f*cking annoying if you ask me." "I dunno, I feel like how bad can I be could have worked if the movie was a lighter tone."
How Bad Can I Be: A villain who thinks he is doing good. It feels like Illumination looked at Pyro from TF2 and decided to make their own version. Biggering: An actual villain who just doesn’t care what he’s doing. He’s just doing what he wants to do: Make more thneeds by chopping trees and selling them.
Biggering should've been mentioned in the NC Review, but that's not his job, so I'm glad I saw THIS . This is how I would've wanted a cancelled song addressed. Alot of Cancelled songs are usually better than the ones in the actually movie. Which is sad
@@estela654 Desert Moon, An original song that was made for the Live Action Aladdin Remake. And WASN'T in the Theater Release. It only had a Music Video, I would've Personally Preferred that song and seen compared to Speechless. But Speechless is also Better than Let it Go in my Opinion. It also doesn't matter in the end
I love videos covering topics such as this, a song that removes all plausible deniability being cut is so fucking telling and on point for modern media
I'm surprised that most people dislike Biggering and like "How Bad Can I Be?" I swear I've only heard positivity towards the former and denouncing the latter.
Well and another thing in the line "who cares if some things are dying?" It deconstructs and generalizes the trees, the fish and Barbalutes to allow him to clean his own conscience and this is also what corporations do in real life. "Who cares? It's just some people."
Honestly for me a VERY big difference between biggering and how bad can I be is that in how bad can I the onceler looks surprised at the dead valley, not realysing the full extent of his actions until it was too late, hence the lane "a few trees are dying" showing he didn't notice everytiing else, as where in biggering it shows that he made the concious decition to keep going, fully aware of the impact he was having as demostrated in "a few THINGS are dying" tho simply opting to not care about it and act oblivious later. Honestly I think that a big reason it got cut it's because it exposes that logic of "acting" like they didnt know the dangers that the companies have while its actually a lie and they just didnt care, it was a too blunt hit and lets remember that the studio making the fild is owned by one of sed companies.
Here's what should happen if they added biggering, I think 1. Have the lorax send the animals to find new homes before the last tree is cut, rather then after. And instead of him being sad, have him not give a shit and only be sad when the last tree is cut, not cuz he ruined natural, but cuz he couldn't make a profit anymore, just like in the og. If he's not oblivious, then it doesn't make sense for him to be sad when the animals leave. Cuz how tf you gonna say 'who cares if they die, I can sleep at night 😋" then be like 'wait, guys, I sowwy. Pwease don't leave 😢 it was a joke, I was just kidding 😭' 2. Don't have the lorax come back at the end. As in this version, it wasn't his mom who manipulated him, he was just greedy and selfish and he doesn't have plausible deniability either, he knew what he was doing, he knew he was abusing animals which makes me absolutely SICK, heck even knew he was hurting people too. He just didn't care. What a sick, evil fuck. "Who cares if a few trees are dying?" Shows plausible deniability while "who cares if some things are dying?" Absolutely does not. I even forgave him at the end and sympathized with him since I believed he didn't know what he was doing. If biggering was used, however, I would not have felt sorry for him nor forgiven him, Much like 1972 onceler. And neither should the lorax. If the onceler knew the pain he was causing, he would not have deserved for the lorax to come back. Just like how 1972, since he KNEW the pain he caused, did not deserve for him to come back either. Errrmmm, sorry for this long ass essay, idky, but I'm very interested in the difference between biggering onceler/1972 onceler and hbcib onceler/2012 onceler
A comment I read on another video about Biggering is that if they cut back in the Thneedville story they could've included both songs. Starting with HBCIB then having the Lorax taking the Onceler around the forest showing him the devastation he is causing on the forest. After this it'll be the Onceler falling to his pride and greed and breaking into Biggering making the call back of "Who cares if some things are dying" to the "Who cares if a few trees are dying." Along with all of the other parallels between the songs showing the shift from "Plausible deniability" to "I know what's going on but I don't care"
Biggering has such a dark 70's rock vibe with those gospel undertones that really resonate with those who lived in that era and remember the original book/movie, and it's because of that that it doesn't really fit with the rest of the 2012 movie. It's so dark and deep and dramatic, perfect in every way, and the rest of the movie is just... not.
Despite being somebody who actually enjoyed the 2012 Lorax film now that I actually know about this song that didn't make it into the film it really makes me think twice about how bad can I be. Biggering is considerably much better and really gets the message across
I think having Biggering start in film with him innocently falling for the traps of Biggering everything that it starts becoming easier and easier until the speech in the middle about greed would really work well. It would show the threat of the moral slippery slope. Because even the greediest CEO bastard doesn't start out wanting to consume everything. And really make that line "who cares some things are dying" have teeth since his humanity died in pride and sloth along with the trees and animals.
I don't really think it's meant to say it okay, I just think its meant to give him plausible nativity and make him more redeemable but not that what he's doing is right, just that he's not an evil monster. While biggering makes him completely un redeemable and a sick, twisted fuck. "Who cares if yall are dying, I can sleep at night"
@@jujuuuuu1851 no, no you're not dumb at all, it's totally reasonable that you thought that. I mean, again, they do portray him as more naive and oblivious. I always got the vibe that we were supposed to think what he was doing was bad, but that he himself wasn't bad, yk? While in biggering he's a pure evil monster
That was a great video, I also noticed that in biggering once_ler knows what he is doing and he even admits it.but in how bad can I be he is unaware of what he is doing. I think biggering is more realistic because in my opinion Many heads of large companies may know some of their actions are wrong and they've been warned, but ignore it
How bad can i be: I just started a business, what's wrong with that? Biggering: I am completely aware that my business will bring total destruction, devestation, and chaos to the earth's ecosystem, but i don't care, because i get money.
As some people already points out, I don't _at all_ believe that the "how bad can I be" in any way try to justify what the oncler did. Rather it shows the contrast of the characters denial, by at the same time as he sings show how obviously wrong what he's doing is. And the "pathetic" attempts of lorax to stop him? Shows how impossible and futile it can feel to try to affect a gigantic corporation. That's what i interpreted when I saw it. So no, i don't think it's trying to justify what's being done, especially since the oncler even realize his wrongdoing himself.
The survival of the fittest is also about how animals (here being businesses) beat each other to resources (here being profit). In that way, the songs could be talking more so about how businesses 'consume' both resources and other businesses when they 'win out' financially, taking them away from and consuming others. Though, yes, other darwanistic theories would have been better suited.
I think that the reason they replaced biggering with how bad can I be is illumination thinks "kids can't handle complex and reality based things". When I listened to biggering I was amazed by the song writing and how close it was to the book. And me just being a kid myself I completely understood everything they were saying in the song showing that this can happen to anyone if they take to much without realizing it. How bad can I be only replaced biggering because "kids can't understand anything complex at all" when kids are actually really smart and can understand stuff like this.I just can't believe they replaced biggering with this awful song. By = 9-11 year old
well, that or maybe the movie about big industries being bad made the big industry that released the movie angy so they forced everyone working on the movie to tone it down to make big corporations like them not look as bad under the guise that they're doing it "because of kids not understanding/liking it" when actually they're doing it for their own selfish, greedy needs (which is exactly what the movie and book was supposed to be against). By a 13-16 year old
As an eight year old growing up watching The Lorax in 2012, I really loved How Bad Can I Be? But as a nineteen year old adult in 2023, I realize Biggering is superior in every way.
Biggering definitively would’ve made the Onceler a more villainous character. In “How Bad Can I Be?” the Onceler seems more ignorant to the damage he is doing, and doesn’t seem to see the bigger picture, while in “Biggering” he’s completely aware of what he is doing and how it’s effecting the environment, but his pride keeps convincing him to go bigger.
The most fascinating part is the some exact lyrics word for word appear in both songs, yet have completely different meanings through tone alone. The theatrical version was explained that this is simply destiny, so no wrong was done. The older script explained that this is wrong on a fundamental level, but some people just don't care.
One I thought of: Biggering doesn’t have the family in it. The family is the one driving the Onceler, in the movie that ended up coming out, which is the Biggest detriment to the movie in the first place
the best differentiation between the two songs I've heard is "in How Bad Can I Be, the Lorax is only trying to save the trees. In Biggering, the Lorax is trying to save the Onceler" Like, seriously- just compare how much more of a PRESENCE the Lorax is in Biggering compared to HBCIB, it makes the latter look like a pathetic shadow of the former's presentation. It's rlly upsetting how much of the connection between the 2 was stripped in the movie adaptation
I'm surprised you didn't mention the subtle change in Onceler's language as Biggering goes on. He starts off trying to paint himself as a victim of circumstance - his business is growing, he didn't know he'd require so much stuff to run his business, so he 'needs' a bigger office, and a desk, and a bigger chair, and more staff, and that's not his fault, because he's biggering! But at the end of that list of things he needs, there is something that doesn't benefit the business - a bigger hat. It's the start of his pride and being greedy. The Lorax shows up here to nip that in the bud, to tell him why he's wrong to grow the company like that, but it doesn't work because the Onceler gives the 'survival of the fittest' excuse and says he MUST keep biggering, like he doesn't have a choice in the matter. After another chorus, he abandons this. It's no longer 'MUST' keep biggering, it's 'WON'T STOP'. By the end of the song, he COULD stop, he's grown enough now, but he's snapped and given into the reward cycle of people paying for his product.
the "few things" vs "few trees" distinction makes a HUGE difference, not only because he's killing more than just trees, but also because he knows and acknowledges the fact that hes killing more than just trees.
i think "who cares if a few trees are dying" implies that he's choosing to ignore the situation as a whole and he's ignorant as to how his actions are rippling out. "who cares if a few things are dying" shows that he knows exactly what he's doing, but he just doesn't care.
To add to this, remember, it wasn't "few things," it was "some things." "A few trees" and "some things" are a huge contrast. He knows the damage is large but is ignoring it.
@@sambradley9091 yeaaah some is much more vague than a few. a few trees brings like,, 3 or so individual trees to mind. some things could be like,, an entire species
@@burdlo4687 Some can mean trees, fish, bears, birds, and maybe even the people of Thneedville
@@sambradley9091 i know
I remember seeing this comment on Biggering, "What's wrong producers, or whoever was in charge? Hit too close to home?" and I think about that sometimes
That commenter knows what’s up, they are an absolute legend
Saw that one
lol, that's what I was thinking when listening to the song. "They must have cut this out cuz it just hit too close to home for them." 😆
I practically quote that comment every time I complain to someone why I don't like the movie lol
The producers after hearing Biggering: This, but unironically!
Biggering is pretty clearly the remnant of an earlier, darker draft of the script. You couldn't just plug a song that sounds like that and includes the line "who cares if some THINGS are dying" (rather than "trees") into a movie with the tone of the final version. I'd love if an earlier script draft were leaked, like the original Gremlins draft that was more violent. The Thneedville demo having Ted interested in getting a tree so he can be the first kid on his block to have one, rather than so he can get a girl to like him, also indicates that the story used to be very different.
+Jodgee
SAME! Just cuz some people are over sensitive about how dark The Biggering is, that doesn't mean people who like it shouldn't be allowed to have it I'm pretty sure some little kids could handle it too, cuz in the 80's and 90's little kids were shown way darker shit in kid's movies.
@Ty The Great I guess it hit too close to home for Illumination
Have you seen any children's movie ever? The best ones from the eighties and nineties always shoehorned in some dark skit, it was sometimes out of place but it was usually the best part of the movie
I would legitimately read that entire script if it was leaked. I'm loving the idea of this earlier draft
By what I got from listening to the demos it sounded like ted would have go through his own greed while listening to the once-lers story I bet he would reliaze that while trees are important the reason he wanted one in the first place was wrong
If Illumination bothered to give Once-ler’s devolution of character more than three minutes they could have kept both songs. Start with *How Bad Can I Be?* , with the protagonist cheerfully jumping around, wondering if the growth of his corporation is really that bad of a thing. Keep the “who cares if a few trees are dying”, cause really, the damage is not that visible at first. It’s just a dozen of trees, there’s more. And then, after the persona of Once-ler is established, proceed with *Biggering* . At first he underplayed the damage to comfort himself, but now it’s too glaring to be ignored and he doesn’t care. Now finish with “who cares if some things are dying” for some juicy cinematic parallels and highlight of the nature of the slippery slope of pride and greed
Gosh, bruh, so much potential straight outta the window. Biggering is a bop, plus the music and vocals are much stronger and more aggressive, it could have been such a beautiful shift of tone
Yes, just *yes*
I agree so much it should've shown him thinking "whatever its fine" then progressing to "what have i done, but i need even more now its not my problem" when it is out of selfish pride . But they didn't think of that, they needed it to be further from it being about them almost.
Yes! YES!!! I was JUST thinking that!!! 😃👆🏾
I definitely agree, you get the most bang for your buck if you use both songs, in the words of George Lucas: "it's like poetry so that they rhyme"
“... potential straight out the window” and this is why I cry at night 😢
How Bad Can I Be is The Once-ler denying what he's doing is wrong.
Biggering is The Once-ler admitting what he's doing is wrong, and that he doesn't care.
They had the perfect setup but squandered it. Fantastic idea.
I decided to listen to Biggering after hearing someone talk about it, and after it was over, I thought "this is... honestly too intelligent for a modern kid's film."
I mean, it shouldn't be, but somehow it is.
If only they put Biggering in alongside HBCIB.
Then it'd be a fucking great arc.
@@FlyingFocs So was Prince of Egypt but that didn't stop 8 year old me ( even me now ) from enjoying the film. Plus kids content can still get dark without leaving all its whimsical and goofiness, look at Kung Fu Panda 2 or you know, the original Lorax for example. If producers couldn't handle making a movie about consumerism destroying the planet a bit more mature then maybe they shouldn't make the movie in the first place
I seriously just found out about it, and hell the shame that i felt. I feel like Biggering shouldve been it because it really reflects the problem more broadly. The problem is, anyone can get pride and greed, and it usually happens when we actually become successful and end up wanting more and more. HBCIB was okay, but i think Biggering shouldve been a superior choice because it gives a more real depiction of what companies/industries do. They know the harm theyve caused, but they dont care. Seriously, it was obvious that Biggering was the superior song. What went through their heads when they decided stuffs?
I really like Biggering. It is a great song. I actually like more the original demo songs of the Lorax. It is more varied, better for characterization overall, and with nice lyrics. From the amazing Biggering to the funny as hell Onceler traveling madness.
Hi
Any of the original demos are better than what we got
omg oncelers travelling madness is the funniest thing omg
@@_w3irdpanda_326 it really is.
@@hunnybunny3211 True. I recommended a friend to hear the demos in order and then watching the movie.
I was listening to the Lorax OST and in the Thneedville demo, Ted starts singing about all the stuff he doesn't have and that all he needs to be happy is "all the stuff i never nad" and i think that wouldve been an excellent foil to biggering, especially how the onceler talks about all that he ever needed.
It really shows how easily pride and greed can make you want more and more - Ted growing up in a society filled with that mentality and how the taste of it can push even a humble person to become destructive
I wish they stuck with the idea of Ted learning that materialism is destructive by scrapping the crush narrative and having Ted want a tree because there aren’t any left and making the Once-ler a true villain but the script was scrapped because it was deemed “too relentlessly dark”, a shame really
@@commitco3213 or maybe they dont want people accociating illumination with it
Biggering = beautiful eargasms
Edgy noodle how bad can I be= a dumbass song that tries to make a point about “pollution is bad fellow kids” but fails and ends up being a pretentious song that just doesn’t work.
raffle baffle that make sense
@@kevinbacon5492 w-well damn dude that song slapped
I agree. I have yet to hear the whole song because of the rush of adrenaline I get from the parts I've actually heard.
@@kevinbacon5492 It's more of one half of the song. I see biggering would've had a better effect if it had How Bad to start it off and let Biggering be the bigger darker brother of the two, a way to give more contrast to the other.
"How Bad Can I Be" is what the Once-ler told Ted.
"Biggering" is what actually happened.
I kinda love this explanation, it's a bit weird that the Onceler would tell Ted everything he did in the worst light possible, that song was kinda his attempt to justify it to ted. Even though we all love to talk about how much better "I sit down with myself is" than How Bad, they both play the same purpose. To say, "This is what's gonna happen, whether I did it or not."
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868yea, I think that's why he made himself seem all likable and sympathetic period. Like, yk, it's his pov after all
I actually really like both songs, but I do feel like Biggering would’ve worked better in the movie. It gets across the message and gives the Once-ler more character. I have to say that HBCIB is really catchy, though. HBCIB is my favorite song in the movie, but I do prefer Biggering for the story.
Yeah, but as the overused joke says
*"I guess it hit too close to home for illumination"*
I would argue that, with the movie structured as it is, Biggering would have been too dark a tone to fit with the rest of the movie. I mean, those bears are made to have the same childish energy as creatures such as the Minions or Rabbids and such; I don't think they would translate into Biggering.
This isn't to say Biggering is bad, it's not, but it is clearly made for a different type of movie.
@@theguywithsomething8634 a different type of movie that the lorax was, in fact, going to be. i won't go into detail but. the original movie was supossed to be way darker, similar to the book.
@@theguywithsomething8634 well the original story of The Lorax would have been that type of movie that you ment soooooooooo.............
Yes
I like both songs but I feel like Biggering is closer to how the book was supposed to be
When I hear it I feel that "biggering" was the climax for "how bad can I be", make it from the naive Once-ler to the nasty evil person one can become if they let creed and pride let loose.
I think biggering is better for the movie, but how bad can i be is just too amazing musically
@@jacobsmith4980 is good, but widouth biggering clossing the act it miss the point the original made.
you like 'how bad can I be' just because its catchy, it is actually a bad song because it portrays the Once-ler as someone who isn't at fault for his actions and doesn't understand what he's doing, but he knows exactly what he's doing, he just doesn't care for the long term. Which is the same exact BS corporations say when they do something wrong: "we didn't know lead was poisonous, even though we bribed scientists and government departments to deny the fact, we're innocent we tell you!".
Yeah, the book portraited the Once-ler as a greedy company owner, not a naive hipster boy.
The biggest gripe I have with the movie is that they didn’t have the balls to show what happened if you couldn’t afford the air.
Oh yeah, I never thought about that, how do you sell air?
@@ALIEN-DUDE I imagine they make the chemical mix of breathable air in labs and sell it in containers
To be honest... nothing
@@ALIEN-DUDEI think the air still exists, because trees aren't the only things thst make air. He did destroy envirement but what about algae, and more. I think he's just getting empty bottles and selling them. He's doing this because THEY don't think air still exists
I’m pretty sure a big part is that the air is fine, I saw a theory on it. I mean it’s an open place (no roof) and there’s no produced air outside, but people still spend time outside without smelling anything like what Ted mentions once he leaves the town. So yeah I think O’hare is just screwing with these people or something
How bad can I be does one thing right, in that it shows that someone can tell themselves all manner of excuses as for why it's alright for them to take more and more. But it fails in that it refuses to examine the damages done to the animals and the environment. Literally all it does is show goop being poured on the fish, the birds getting hit with smog, and the trees getting cut down. The biggest and in my opinion the best line in Biggering is straight up the realization that things, animals, are dying because of his actions. And he doesn't care about that. His need for money has overtaken his need to ensure that the animals that he made friends with, are safe and able to survive while he makes a comfortable living for himself.
Add in the fact that the Onceler is no longer the 'innocent entrepreneur turned corporate head', but is the 'innocent entrepreneur who was totally going to do as he said, until his family came along and badgered him into growing the company'
It maintains the Onceler as an innocent. It's not *his* fault, per se, his manipulative bitchy mother came along and made him feel like it was all for her, he needed to do it or she'd be upset. "You've gotta do what's best for the business. . .And your momma." Which is manipulative as shit and the Onceler is just a helpless stooge that does as his mother says. He's innocent, he's not getting the corporate greed, he's trying to take care of his family! That's only natural, you can't blame him for that, can you?
It should be noted a message that sometimes family is wrong, and sometimes family uses you is important, but it's *NOT THE MESSAGE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET FROM THE LORAX* The message you get is supposed to be 'Hey y'know guys maybe if we could reign back the corporate greed, maybe we wouldn't be in quite the huge fucking mess we're in'.
Biggering lays it all out on the line. People can say HBCIB is subtle, and supposed to be satire, but the impact of Biggering is like a goddamn anvil to the head, in a way that HBCIB cannot possibly even hope to match. It explains how people work. How people tend to get comfortable. . .And then want more. And take more and more pride in all their stuff. That they never knew they 'needed'. It turns the Lorax from a quiet begger and pleader, who doesn't even get a line in HBCIB, into a force. Someone trying to convince the Onceler that no, this is too much. He's hurting people, he's hurting the Lorax's friends. This is unsustainable, and if you keep feeding that need to get bigger, that need to keep biggering, it's all going to fall apart.
Biggering gets the same thing right, and everything else.
I feel that there is a little off about your view. The Onceler IS a bad guy, and it IS his fault... he grew more and more powerful and became more and more of a jerk. He didn't stay innocent.
It was just that, once he lost everything, the people that actually loved him were too hurt to accept him again, and the people that pretended to love him no longer had a reason to.
How Bad Can I Be, I feel represents HIS OWN view of the situation better, while Biggering shows the perspective of the victims...
He doesn't view himself as the villain until it's too late...
So I feel each song actually shows a different perspective.
His mom wasn't at fault, she was just the catalyst. He himself was at fault, but in his own head, he still felt that he was the same person the Lorax and crew loved, not realizing that, he wasn't...
@@TheDeathmail It just feels too safe sadly. It just sounds exactly what the corporate wants to hear, making it trendy, catchy pop music score that is marketable from the statistics. It just continues making the excuse of the "they didn't know it could be harmful" message the corporates try to paint themselves.
Bigerring is embodying the message of what Seuss wanted to send. That corporations know what they are doing is harmful, but they dont care. Moral is not their priority, they only want all the money. And yes, kids can handle the rock opera music and a much darker tone, if that wasn't the case they would have been scarred from the hunchback of notre dame Hellfire. I sure I wasn't when it came out.
The Lorax movie came close to the message of the book, but faceplanted right at the end because it "needed" to be easily digestible. Making the Onceler an everyman that people can relate to is a good move if he has agency. Biggering is about a Onceler who has agency and has gone down the slippery slope of greed and pride. At the start, he can still turn back, but doesn't because he "needs" to grow his business. However, in the movie, the Onceler doesn't have agency, and thus Biggering doesn't work.
How Bad Can I Be has some subtle jabs at the shallow excuses and deflections that corporations use to defend their actions, but you really need to sit down and analyze it. Biggering is in your face about it's message. There are no excuses, deflections, or subtle jabs. It is a song about pure, unabashed greed, and how it corrupts people.
There are many things wrong with the Lorax movie, but the handling of the Onceler is probably its greatest sin.
“Now listen. That is a nasty little worm. And I like to call it... pride.”
Chills every time man.
Choosing the catchy, easy song instead of the challenging, thought provoking one, yep, that sound like Illumination alright, this movie could've been so much better
It's a kids movie bro I don't think "the thought provoking one" kids are gonna enjoy because they're like 9 and i doubt their thinkin much of the song lyrics. Also, "the thought provoking one"? dude cmon you gotta be joking that shit is more on the nose than having to think about it just look at the lyrics. I mean both songs are on the nose but cmon, i wouldn't call one more thought provoking than the other. i would say the songs are like basically the same just like a genre shift
@@mikeyzimmerman7882 Sure, kids are really dumb after all right?
@@demontamerbf18 yeah seeing as how im a kid myself, i would say they’re pretty dumb. I probably watched this when i was 7-9 so i didnt even know this was an “anti-corporation” movie until i listened to hbcib like 7 times and realized the message.
@@mikeyzimmerman7882 have you read the book? Its super dark and so should tye movie be.
@@endertobias1908 not all movies need to be exact replicas of the book bruh
How Bad Can I Be isn't trying to justify the Oncler's destruction of the environment; it's the Oncler trying to justify the destruction to HIMSELF, and we as the audience are supposed to see that as an empty lie.
I agree. I think the problem with that, though, is what Charles pointed out above: unlike Biggering, it doesn't address the moral conflict directly, just alludes to it. Biggering focuses on _why_ the Onceler is doing this, and instead of presenting it as a jokey comedic thing, it presents it as a serious thing. Idk.
Children aren’t capable of critical analysis Harold
I agree; that's what HBCIB is _trying_ to do. The problem is that it fails to realize that a song the audience is meant to see as an empty lie needs to be written differently than one they're supposed to agree with. Yes, people (even children) can think for themselves, but if they are thinking "This song is wrong" while the movie says "This song is right," the dissonance is going to make for a worse movie.
Okay but it's a shit song AND it fails at any intent anyway.
@Adrift at C
Yes, I think the actual problem is that the song is too catchy and upbeat despite being about a pretty serious topic. 'Biggering' would have been much better in getting the moral across because it's somber and thought-provoking. I think a possible reason people prefer 'How Bad Can I Be?' may be because many of them don't think children can handle serious and thought-provoking stuff.
I just can’t believe the creators of the movie decided to take out ‘Biggering’ because it was “too real” for kids
More like too real for the execs. Didnt want to expose themselves but did anyway by taking the song out
@@endertobias1908 irony is ironic
Hit too close to home
Fun fact: The guy who wrote the lyrics to biggering actually said that he got frustrated cause biggering was cut off.
@YoungOasis and why did they put it for little kids instead of making it 14+? Because they didn’t wanna traumatize children with the hardcore truth of our existence
it was cut out because it was "too dark." What illumination? Did biggering hit too close to home for you? I mean think about it, by replacing biggering with "how bad can I be?" they were BIGGERING by making the message watered down and completely ignoring the point to save their own asses.
Yeah, as soon as I saw that this movie was being featured in car commercials, I knew that this would be shit
@@cattythecat9722 wasn’t that supposed to be like meta lol
Okay buddy, go join a 99% rally
That isn't what biggering means. They were just going for a poppy mass appeal movie, that's all it was. The execs don't give a fuck about the movie itself, to them it's just a vehicle for more money.
@@cattythecat9722 Spider-Man: No Way Home was featured in car adverts, and that film was f*cking amazing!
I would say that How Bad Can I Be is catchier, and fully inhabits the Onceler's perspective, starting at a point at which he really isn't that bad, and shows how he doesn't see any difference between his earlier and more innocent and sustainable behavior and his later abuses of the environment. He denies the Lorax's warnings that his business could be destructive , and continues this denial even as it becomes obviously false. Because of how fully it reinforces the Onceler's uncomplicated perspective, it lacks depth and substance, similarly it's perspective of the Lorax as a petty annoyance lines up with how the Onceler would perceive him at this point in his life.
In contrast, Biggering approaches it from an outside perspective, the lyrics are still largely from The Onceler's perspective, but the tone is much more ominous, contrasting the carefree facade he's trying to project. It is less catchy and focused, but deeper and more substantive. While HBCIB is focused on a single perspective, hoping that it's hypocrisy will be made apparent by the lyrics and visuals, Biggering is an interplay of perspectives. The Onceler says he's happy, that he's gratified, that if he just gets a bigger office, a bigger desk, everything will be hunky dory, but the grungy melody and baseline gives the lie to that idea, shows how deeply unhappy he is. How he is consumed by his greed and hunger for ever more, how the constant growth he thinks will make him happy is actually making him miserable, like an addiction.
When the Lorax makes his case, we listen to him not just because of the music building behind his words and the choir echoing him, but because the music has been telling us this the whole time. How Bad Can I Be presents the situation as a comedy while Biggering presents it as a tragedy.
The film forces the main thread of the book into a single musical number, focusing instead on the basically fine world before this environmental devastation, and the empty, plastic, but still livable world built on the ashes of the living world. If the film was going to shrink from it's own main point in this way, Biggering is indisputably the better song, as it fully encapsulates the complexity of the situation, but ideally a single musical number would not be burdened with encapsulating the entire plot of the book.
I like How Bad Can I Be, but ideally it would be just one part of the story of the Onceler's fall from grace, counterpointed with a song from the Lorax explaining the flaws in this perspective, and a song from the Onceler once the last tree has been cut about his regret that he didn't stop sooner. In this way each of the perspectives that make up Biggering could be given the same clarity and purity of expression as the Onceler's pride, greed, and willful ignorance of the consequences of his actions is in HBCIB. How Bad Can I Be is catchy and focused , while Biggering is deep and dense.
How Bad Can I be replacing Biggering is just another consequence of a movie that is supposed to be about industrialism and its consequences flinching as intensely as possible from actually depicting industrialism and its consequences.
I actually liked HBCIB; it's kind of air-headed and vapid, yeah, but I never got the impression from it that we were supposed to agree with the Onceler justifying his actions to himself. Collecting the charity proceeds for himself, framing the Lorax's endorsement, even just the crazy dutch angles that put us at the mercy of his chopping machines, he's thoroughly villainized in the song. However, Biggering is much better -- musically, lyrically, and tonally. It *is* the rebuttal to HBCIB, and it's a showstopping one at that.
I think it should have been used alongside HBCIB, as a callback. That way, the catchy emptiness of HBCIB would be properly put in its place, and moreover, the Onceler would be explicitly shown as self-deluded.
It's about plausible deniability. Remember that whole plot thread they added in the film, that has nothing to do with the book, where the Onceler's family COERCES him into chopping down the trees?
That was included so that all the devastation that happens after wouldn't be entirely the Onceler's fault. Which destroys the message - because in reality, it IS all our fault. We knew using that plastic straw was bad. We did it anyway. BP knew about the oil spill; they carried on anyway. Nestle knew exactly what they were doing when they stole an entire town's water supply and sold it back to them. They're not stupid.
HBCIB is trying to sell us something that does not happen in real life. In real life, people KNOW when they're making these choices. They weren't forced; they weren't coerced. They weighed the options and they consciously decided the environment wasn't as important; or that people weren't as important. Biggering talks about that concept - and it was removed in favour of a safe, comforting lie.
I love both.
"How Bad Can I Be?" is a boring BSB / N*sync type song, while "Biggering" is an epic Pink Floyd "rock opera."
Biggering is so huge and dramatic and dark and I legitimately want to make an entire cartoon around that version. It is, also, in fact, METAL AS F**K. 🤘
yes
I want to learn animation to give biggering justice
This shows that Illumination still has the same good writers that made the original despicable me, they just don't use them. The original movie was supposed to be about corporate consumerism and the greed of businesses, how even a likable person can turn out to be a monster if enough money is involved. Sounds similar to something you might have expected from 2000s Dreamworks, who are now also under illumination's thumb. But they dumbed it down repeatedly, changing ted's motivation from consumerism based greed into a childhood crush, changing the onceler from a truly corrupted individual at the end into a naive and ignorant destroyer. If the original story was kept, this would have been considered the second good movie that illumination made. But funnily enough, the ideals of consumerism that the original screenplay warns against ended up ending this message because it was "too dark" and "not marketable", instead going with a light message of basic environmentalism. Then, once it came out, the Lorax had 70 corporate tie-ins. A real shame.
The original movie hit too close to home and illumination didn't want to risk not getting any sponsors
I'd die for a version of the movie like this. It's sad because this was probably early drafts of the script and the producers made it fluffier and nicer "for the kids". This could've been something special, whoever composed this song knew their shit.
@@pizzawashere8940 I would have liked to see the movie with its original script since it would give us the message that dr seuss wanted to give us in the book I would die to see that version of the old script
I love how more popular this opinion is becoming. But basically, this is how the songs are:
How Bad Can I Be = Ignorance
Biggering = Intention
I really like this interpretation because it shows that both songs have their own points that their making; that their not just a better/worse version of eachother
I think that The Prince of Egypt has one of the best sound tracks for an animated movie. Most of the orchestral music was composed by Hans Zimmer, and the songs are very well written too. I highly suggest watching it if you haven't seen it already or just listen to the sound track. The Hunchback of Notre Dame, also has a great sound track. When movies have good music it almost has the same effect as listening to a good concept album for me haha.
Kraz3e987 YESSSS!
Biggering weirdly reminds me of Hellfire in the sense that both Frollo and the Onceler attempt to justify their horrible actions (Frollo claiming that it was not his fault and blaming Esmarelda, the Devil and even God for his lust, and the Onceler claiming that he needs to keep biggering and destroying the environment or he "will become another's lunch")
There is more to both songs (like the lorax warning the Onceler about pride although his warning gets ignored by the Onceler and the guard interrupting Hellfire to tell Frollo that Esmeralda escaped,who is heavily implied to be an angel sent to give Frollo a chance to forget his obsession and his sin before being called an idiot and cast aside sealing his fate) although I have already written an essay and cant be assed to continue.
@@zombiehater6547 one is lust turning into wrath. The other is pride turning into greed
@@zombiehater6547 i would like you to continue analyzing these two songs
Its funny that people who did bad on that got shreked and had to work on sherk
I feel like if you changed a couple of lyrics, Biggering, with its darker and more solemn tone could actually have been used after How Bad Could I Be, showing how Onceler reflects upon his actions when looking at the desolate landscape that he created, realizing how corrupt he became and how he never meant to take it this far, but what's done is done and now he has to cope with his actions
I will die on the hill that Biggering is 10x better message-wise, slaps 100x harder, and just altogether is absolutely world-shattering.
biggering is a thousand times better
"A bunch of people prefer How Bad Can I Be to Biggering" A bunch of people happen to be fuckin' wrong.
I like both but Biggering very much obviously slaps harder than How Bad Can I Be
I like HBCIB but I can’t deny the beauty of Biggering.
i like both
Your opinion
@@AlvinGrier More like shit taste
Biggering actually FITS with the plot, it gives a reason for why trees matter. The onceler is supposed to represent companys and how they abuse the environment. How bad can I be is just... a mediocre version of biggering, its just answering a question with- well a question. It doesn't fit with the plot as well. They're just to scared to admit this is how companies work and left it.
I feel like having both songs in the movie, would have been really good, I think listening to HBCIB first, and in the background see Lorax speaking, but we as the audience, not be able to listen to him, and then immediately going to Biggering and be able to listen to Lorax and see that HBCIB is basically a combination of a PR stunt and a justification of the Onceler actions to himself, plus it would feel like that scene in Mulan where they are singing A girl worth fighting for and them the destruction caused by war and see the difference in the mood of the scenes
Honestly,biggering made me cry. I usually don't cry but I also noticed that his guitar represented him,his personality. Towards the end,at the peak of his evil,it stopped,representing that he was not who he once was,and is now totally consumed by his greed and pride. Biggering is a powerful song,something that the makers of the Lorax said was "too scary for little kids",when in reality,they thought it was too real.
is a work of art this song is deep
I think "who cares if SOME THINGS are dying" also includes humans as well. Health hazards from air pollution comes to mind. Side tangent: the chorus is more powerful in Buggering than in the latter. It just reminds me of Queen and Panic.
I think the most impactful message of buggering isn't this is evil.
It's that the Onclers actions are driven more by his pride than anything.
Biggering > how bad can I be.
I found out about biggering about a week ago and omg how my eyes were opened to what that film could have been.
if the movie was going to be the same as the book and the demo songs
"How bad can I be" isn't even that bad of a song in a bubble imo, but they should have at least made it out as the onesler was actually just making excuses and trying to convince himself that it's not his fault and that it's not so bad. But they don't do that, and it literally comes off as the the movie itself being delusional. But it was just so tonally off for what it should have been. "Biggering" had the potential of being one of biggest/best villain song ever. Something on the lines of Hellfire from Notredame. I genuinely think it's that good. Such a missed opportunity.
I honestly didn’t know “biggering” existed but now I know it and listened to it, I love it and “how bad can I be” is too 2000s kids bop/pop
To be honest, I really love "how bad can I be", as it is catchy, upbeat and easy to sing along, but DAMN! "Biggering" is just in another level. Less a song to sing along and more one you hear with intent, that requires your attention, that questions everything.
The fact biggering was mentioned in the book and how bad can I be was just never mentioned
Me: Mom, can we have Biggering?
Mom: We have Biggering at home!
Biggering: *How bad can I be*
When i heard biggering, it gave me literal chills, especially when i hear "Who cares if somethings are dying" Its not just trees, It can be animals, environment, etc and especially humans-
I would love to see the Lorax reimagined into dark musical with this song in it.
I share your sentiments exactly. A dark, epic rock opera that would bring the audience to tears.
Fr they need to do another adaptation on broadway with the og concept of the movie and this song😭
Many have philosophized over the ideas of whether or not human kind’s morals are objective or subjective. How Bad Can You Be says you are naturally evil under a certain set of circumstances. Biggering says you can choose whether you’re good or bad. I think we both know what’s the more mature and better song.
@Hange Zoë Biggering
Honestly the Lorax should've had a darker tone and stuck with biggering, I know the movie was made for kids but the message they tried to send was much darker than they could. they basically took a skull and crossbones and turned it into sugar and candy and dressed it up to lose it's meaning.
I kinda like how bad can I be however biggering hits harder not only in tone but also in message, it would've been more impactful and done more for the film than what we got in the final version.
The way I can put it: The original soundtrack was trying to accurately represent the book and show the message, while the final soundtrack tries to prevent parents from getting mad because their kid is crying.
I like How Bad Can I Be, and of course the Onceler is trying to justify things to himself, because what he's doing feels so amazing he can't stop, or don't want to. and the poppy catchiness fits with his mindset where it's so easy to lose himself in it than thinking too much about it (maybe it could have worked to have a darker reprise, though, or something in-between). although what I don't like is how they make the Lorax so... petty (which is a problem in general, how it plays the Lorax for laughs until the moment he leaves), so there I agree that the other song is stronger in how it includes the Lorax, and makes me wonder how the rest of the movie could have been if they went with this instead. feels like it would be less flippant at least.
Biggering is honestly the kind of song I'd listen to unironically
Even leaving aside meaning, rock opera like Biggering is sorely missing these days. You get bubblegum pop like How Bad every day on the radio, re-introduce some WEIGHT and grit and actually make a statement, and get some kids into ROCK
I think both songs should have been in the film, though the film would have needed a rework for that.
"How Bad Can I Be?" could have been the song of the modern-day protagonist, who is starting down the same path as the Onceler.
"Biggering" could then have been a response to "How Bad Can I Be?", the Onceler answering the protagonist's question by [musically] explaining his own past/greed/pride/mistakes.
The one big thing about this song is that Illumination probably wouldn’t further have a foundation to produce movies if Biggering was the song used instead of HBCIB. Especially in 2012. In today’s day, it probably would have survived. But the fact that Biggering is a target to not only the Onceler, but also the corporations that are absentmindedly affecting the public negatively and their factories and industrial plants tearing apart our planet. Hollywood, without a doubt, would have plummeted Illumination before it could produce another film. And this film probably wouldn’t exist. They did their best to accommodate for the sensitive parents and impressionable children with HBCIB. It did make the movie a whole lot more cheesy to me after I heard that, though. Biggering would have stuck for years in a more striking and hardcore way. “HBCIB is just an easy song while Biggering challenges you.” I absolutely agree. Of course everyone remembers HBCIB because it has the notes that appeal to the younger ears and has an easily memorable chorus. But Biggering develops. It makes you want to sing it like a broadway performer with greed and pride behind your vocals. It’s that kind of an angry, nasty, true, aggressive, relentless song.
you're right
imo the best corporate villian song would be a mix of the 2,a catchy song like HBCIB slowly falling apart and darkening into Buggering with the same motifs as the catchy part,and then a reprise later fully rock opera esque
Me when I first heard "How Bad Can I Be": OMG I LOVE THIS SONG IT'S AMAZING OMG (I was like 7 or 9 okay)
Me when I heard "Biggering": ...I have made a crucial mistake. WHY didn't anyone tell me about this MASTERPIECE SOONER?! THIS SONG IS OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
I'm wondering the same
Its actually kinda funny. The whole issue could have been solved by treating thneeds like diamonds, and treating the trees like crops to be farmed. Hoarde the thneeds and release them in small increments and inflate the prices over time. This would create the added benefit of their increased value, which customers in the past can use to profit from, almost like turning Thneeds into stocks. Then isolate the woodland into a series of areas designated for milling and regrowth, respectively, then farm them like you do any other crop.
The Lorax wasnt just a nature spirit, he was hiding the secret to some real hardcore biggering.
But that would take longer, I think current events prove money now is better then more money later to most companies
The idea is that theed's became a fad. Like how meme popularity expires within a week. He was cashing in on the popularity of thneeds. And funny enough after the trees all died, no one cared about thneeds anymore
@@pizzawashere8940 I thought the idea was that thneeds were just stand ins for any capitalistic product
@@darkmiserythechao Yeah pretty much. Especially in todays day, people get sick of the wave and once it crashes, all the money dies
It isn't that they didn't realize that they had the song, it's that it would have pissed off the corporate studio, and the fifty thousand sponsors.
The first time I heard Biggering, my first thought was ‘I love it when someone goes absolutely HAM in a kids movie even though they didn’t have to’.
I can’t believe how heavy, and intense, and aggressive it is in the back half, starting with the Lorax’s verse. It kicks. your. ass. I’m honestly amazed it made it as far as being fully recorded and produced. We’re blessed just to have it finished honestly.
I like HBCIB in its own right, it’s catchy as hell and all, and I like how you can hear a remnant of Biggering’s ominous, heavy choir and instrumentation in the background of the last verse. But at the end of the day, it has no teeth. And it s definitely no rock opera masterpiece like Biggering is.
How Bad Can I Be is catchy, but Biggering is powerful. Biggering does such a good job building up in it's momentum, gradually becoming an epic mess of a song that still manages to be such a slap. And I think we can all agree that between the two songs, when they shared lyrics, Biggering did it better. obviously there's the "some things are dying" vs "a few trees are dying" comparison, but another that really sticks out to me is the "become someone else's lunch" line. In How Bad Can I Be it's just a quirky, annoying little throwaway line, but in Biggering it feels more powerful and threatening. It's like saying "Haha, get eaten lol" vs "If you can't keep up, then you'll get stomped into the ground". But that's just how I see it anyway
Biggering is on par with some of the greatest Disney villain songs, and that’s saying a lot.
I think it would be hellfire by frollo
I really want a mashup between the naive "How Bad Can I Be" slowly transitioning to "Biggering" as the wounds start to widen and the scabs left behind not allowed to heal. But then I realized that that is musically almost impossible since the songs were so tonally different (maybe a transition scene to stick these songs together but-) in the end, we have to pick one. The Moral of The Story or The Catchiness of The Song
I love biggering WAY more than the how bad can i be. The darker tone sets the mood way better, and tells you how serious it is... it also just sounds way better in general.
Honestly first time I saw "How bad can I be" I found it catchy. It was a neat song. But then I heard biggering. And I gotta say it hits way harder and it just sounds way better.
Well, in reality, it didn't matter what the Lorax was saying. The Once-ler ignored it and pushed him aside, just like How Bad Can I be does it.
Difference being that the Once-ler used the Survival of the Fittest excuse as a response to the Lorax in Biggering.
I got chills hearing what the Lorax said in biggering
HBCIB made the onceler look like a dude who just didn't know what he was doing but biggering at first he didn't know then he knew but didn't care
@@rainingtacos3135 Right. The Lorax actively confronts the Onceler about how he's ruining the valley and corrupting himself, while in HBCIB, the Lorax is instead constantly being pushed around by the song, never says a word, and never directly confronts the Onceler.
Yeah, but the difference is something was said and ignored
Beyond just ignoring the Lorax before anything could be said
I feel like “Biggering” put the Onceler in a more story accurate light. The Onceler in the book wasn’t oblivious. He knew exactly what he was doing by constantly expanding the operation well past sustainability. The final film paints him as oblivious or in denial from peer pressure, which just didn’t feel right. I honestly would have far preferred his final redemption arc if they had stuck with the lawful evil depiction they originally wanted to use.
Things dying. Trees dying. It's a one-word difference but the difference is huge. Trees are one thing but the book was just as concerned about, maybe MORE concerned about, the animals and the air quality and all the rest of it. Biggering then isn't just superior musically or for bringing the Lorax in to argue but for lyrically hedging closer to the source material and thereby covering a greater and more nuanced scope. Fuck, this movie was awful.
the movie had an incredible potential to be one of the best movies if the original script and the demo songs had stayed, we would have made it a gem of a movie
Pride works better as a flaw for the onceler than greed.
Consider it. You have a guy who was bullied by his entire family, nothing he could do was ever good enough. Then, just once, he does something worth praising. He pushes and pushes that one thing, he begins biggering. He has been starved of pride for so long he gorges himself on it. The family doesn’t make him greedy, but they can urge him towards pride.
To a lesser extent, biggering sounds close to beginning, to me at least. And the song kinda reflects that. Biggering shows the process of being a startup company that becomes huge. How bad can I be, just revels in being big. How bad can I be shows you a villain, but biggering shows you that the villain can start small, just like you.
The use of “survival of the fittest” is saying you need to “claw and bite and punch” in order to survive, not that some animals are predators are some are prey.
I'm pretty sure Biggering was cut because it wouldn't be able to just stick with as many people. As well as the fact that it was ‘too dark’, and they also wanted to make the Once-ler relatable. I feel like Biggering is one of the most popular cut songs from The Lorax (2012). Plus, Biggering would resemble the Once-ler in the book way more. In Biggering, the Once-ler knows what he's doing. This makes sense (at least in The Lorax (2012)) because he wanted the acceptance of his family.
*Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.*
Why not have both?
Ironically biggering sticks with me more than HBCiB. HBCiB is annoying
1:15 Combine the songs, How ba-a-ad can I be? I’m just doin’ what comes naturally. ‘Cause I’m BIGGERING-ING-ING!
The one thing I’d like to add is that the final note is amazing. Guitar and chorus going higher and higher until the choir gives out and the guitar warbles out shortly after. Natural dies and then so does the man made.
In Hbcib Onceler believes he is in no wrong and whatever he is doing isn't actually bad, while in biggering Onceler straight up says "our company is an animal trying to survive" and "who cares if a few THINGS are dying" meaning he's aware he is killing off not just the trees but also the animal friends he made but he simply doesn't care because of pride and greed. Another element I liked is in biggering Lorax is trying to save Onceler, from his own greed, rather than just saving the trees
I once saw someone saying that "Biggering" was what really happened and that "How Bad Can I Be?" was what the Onceler decided to tell Ted so he didn't come off as the true villain he was
The main reason this song was probably removed because song was practically calling out the companies and really shows the major flaws in capitalism. The literal message of the Lorax was basically calling out on. Capitalism because of its flaws and how greedy companies can get. The companies probably didn’t like it because of the whole message of greedy companies and they would probably be seen as the Onceler and people wouldn’t like them anymore. Biggering feels really realistic on how pride can take ahold of greed and cause greed to control someone. The Once ler literally says that he needs to expand so his company doesn’t get outmatched. Overall I find it really hypocritical that they removed a S teir villain song that basically helped explain the major flaws in captialism and would have been perfect for a anti capitalist movie, and yet they removed it because of their pride of being a successful company
Both of the songs work better when played right after another, in HBCIB he is trying to convince himself that he’s still in the right in biggering he is basically right into being the bad guy it would be good character development for him to go from not caring trees are dying to not caring if anything is dying
Meanwhile in an alternate universe...
"Hey, you listen to that deleted song from the Lorax?"
"Yeah, pretty f*cking annoying if you ask me."
"I dunno, I feel like how bad can I be could have worked if the movie was a lighter tone."
How Bad Can I Be: A villain who thinks he is doing good. It feels like Illumination looked at Pyro from TF2 and decided to make their own version.
Biggering: An actual villain who just doesn’t care what he’s doing. He’s just doing what he wants to do: Make more thneeds by chopping trees and selling them.
The virgin How Bad Can I Be?
Vs
The CHAD Biggering
Biggering should've been mentioned in the NC Review, but that's not his job, so I'm glad I saw THIS . This is how I would've wanted a cancelled song addressed. Alot of Cancelled songs are usually better than the ones in the actually movie. Which is sad
which canceled songs
@@estela654 Desert Moon, An original song that was made for the Live Action Aladdin Remake. And WASN'T in the Theater Release. It only had a Music Video, I would've Personally Preferred that song and seen compared to Speechless. But Speechless is also Better than Let it Go in my Opinion. It also doesn't matter in the end
I think the Lorax would’ve been 100% better as a rock opera if they were gonna make it a musical
I love videos covering topics such as this, a song that removes all plausible deniability being cut is so fucking telling and on point for modern media
I'm surprised that most people dislike Biggering and like "How Bad Can I Be?" I swear I've only heard positivity towards the former and denouncing the latter.
The songs that were lost in the shuffle but are still in the truffle. Is what he should have said
I hum How Bad Can I Be but sing Biggering
Well and another thing in the line "who cares if some things are dying?" It deconstructs and generalizes the trees, the fish and Barbalutes to allow him to clean his own conscience and this is also what corporations do in real life. "Who cares? It's just some people."
Honestly for me a VERY big difference between biggering and how bad can I be is that in how bad can I the onceler looks surprised at the dead valley, not realysing the full extent of his actions until it was too late, hence the lane "a few trees are dying" showing he didn't notice everytiing else, as where in biggering it shows that he made the concious decition to keep going, fully aware of the impact he was having as demostrated in "a few THINGS are dying" tho simply opting to not care about it and act oblivious later.
Honestly I think that a big reason it got cut it's because it exposes that logic of "acting" like they didnt know the dangers that the companies have while its actually a lie and they just didnt care, it was a too blunt hit and lets remember that the studio making the fild is owned by one of sed companies.
Here's what should happen if they added biggering, I think
1. Have the lorax send the animals to find new homes before the last tree is cut, rather then after. And instead of him being sad, have him not give a shit and only be sad when the last tree is cut, not cuz he ruined natural, but cuz he couldn't make a profit anymore, just like in the og. If he's not oblivious, then it doesn't make sense for him to be sad when the animals leave. Cuz how tf you gonna say 'who cares if they die, I can sleep at night 😋" then be like 'wait, guys, I sowwy. Pwease don't leave 😢 it was a joke, I was just kidding 😭'
2. Don't have the lorax come back at the end. As in this version, it wasn't his mom who manipulated him, he was just greedy and selfish and he doesn't have plausible deniability either, he knew what he was doing, he knew he was abusing animals which makes me absolutely SICK, heck even knew he was hurting people too. He just didn't care. What a sick, evil fuck. "Who cares if a few trees are dying?" Shows plausible deniability while "who cares if some things are dying?" Absolutely does not. I even forgave him at the end and sympathized with him since I believed he didn't know what he was doing. If biggering was used, however, I would not have felt sorry for him nor forgiven him, Much like 1972 onceler. And neither should the lorax. If the onceler knew the pain he was causing, he would not have deserved for the lorax to come back. Just like how 1972, since he KNEW the pain he caused, did not deserve for him to come back either.
Errrmmm, sorry for this long ass essay, idky, but I'm very interested in the difference between biggering onceler/1972 onceler and hbcib onceler/2012 onceler
A comment I read on another video about Biggering is that if they cut back in the Thneedville story they could've included both songs. Starting with HBCIB then having the Lorax taking the Onceler around the forest showing him the devastation he is causing on the forest. After this it'll be the Onceler falling to his pride and greed and breaking into Biggering making the call back of "Who cares if some things are dying" to the "Who cares if a few trees are dying." Along with all of the other parallels between the songs showing the shift from "Plausible deniability" to "I know what's going on but I don't care"
Biggering has such a dark 70's rock vibe with those gospel undertones that really resonate with those who lived in that era and remember the original book/movie, and it's because of that that it doesn't really fit with the rest of the 2012 movie. It's so dark and deep and dramatic, perfect in every way, and the rest of the movie is just... not.
correct
It’s also sad how the opening could of been a song about teds greed and how he only wants the new toys and popular thing
Despite being somebody who actually enjoyed the 2012 Lorax film now that I actually know about this song that didn't make it into the film it really makes me think twice about how bad can I be. Biggering is considerably much better and really gets the message across
I think having Biggering start in film with him innocently falling for the traps of Biggering everything that it starts becoming easier and easier until the speech in the middle about greed would really work well. It would show the threat of the moral slippery slope. Because even the greediest CEO bastard doesn't start out wanting to consume everything. And really make that line "who cares some things are dying" have teeth since his humanity died in pride and sloth along with the trees and animals.
I think How bad can I be kind of tells you it’s fine to do stuff like that, while Biggering tells you not to do so
I don't really think it's meant to say it okay, I just think its meant to give him plausible nativity and make him more redeemable but not that what he's doing is right, just that he's not an evil monster. While biggering makes him completely un redeemable and a sick, twisted fuck. "Who cares if yall are dying, I can sleep at night"
@@maddiemorales1419 yeah you’re right, I apparently was unbelievably dumb last year lol
@@jujuuuuu1851 no, no you're not dumb at all, it's totally reasonable that you thought that. I mean, again, they do portray him as more naive and oblivious. I always got the vibe that we were supposed to think what he was doing was bad, but that he himself wasn't bad, yk? While in biggering he's a pure evil monster
@@maddiemorales1419 yeah absolutely, it really give’s off that vibe
That was a great video, I also noticed that in biggering once_ler knows what he is doing and he even admits it.but in how bad can I be he is unaware of what he is doing. I think biggering is more realistic because in my opinion Many heads of large companies may know some of their actions are wrong and they've been warned, but ignore it
honestly HBCIB is a good fit for this film because of the more “fluffy” view but Biggering would’ve been better if they followed the book theme
How bad can i be: I just started a business, what's wrong with that?
Biggering: I am completely aware that my business will bring total destruction, devestation, and chaos to the earth's ecosystem, but i don't care, because i get money.
As some people already points out, I don't _at all_ believe that the "how bad can I be" in any way try to justify what the oncler did. Rather it shows the contrast of the characters denial, by at the same time as he sings show how obviously wrong what he's doing is. And the "pathetic" attempts of lorax to stop him? Shows how impossible and futile it can feel to try to affect a gigantic corporation. That's what i interpreted when I saw it. So no, i don't think it's trying to justify what's being done, especially since the oncler even realize his wrongdoing himself.
The survival of the fittest is also about how animals (here being businesses) beat each other to resources (here being profit). In that way, the songs could be talking more so about how businesses 'consume' both resources and other businesses when they 'win out' financially, taking them away from and consuming others. Though, yes, other darwanistic theories would have been better suited.
I think that the reason they replaced biggering with how bad can I be is illumination thinks "kids can't handle complex and reality based things". When I listened to biggering I was amazed by the song writing and how close it was to the book. And me just being a kid myself I completely understood everything they were saying in the song showing that this can happen to anyone if they take to much without realizing it. How bad can I be only replaced biggering because "kids can't understand anything complex at all" when kids are actually really smart and can understand stuff like this.I just can't believe they replaced biggering with this awful song. By = 9-11 year old
well, that or maybe the movie about big industries being bad made the big industry that released the movie angy so they forced everyone working on the movie to tone it down to make big corporations like them not look as bad under the guise that they're doing it "because of kids not understanding/liking it" when actually they're doing it for their own selfish, greedy needs (which is exactly what the movie and book was supposed to be against).
By a 13-16 year old
My favourite lines from biggering “who cares if some things are dying, I don’t wanna hear you’re crying”
As an eight year old growing up watching The Lorax in 2012, I really loved How Bad Can I Be?
But as a nineteen year old adult in 2023, I realize Biggering is superior in every way.
Biggering definitively would’ve made the Onceler a more villainous character.
In “How Bad Can I Be?” the Onceler seems more ignorant to the damage he is doing, and doesn’t seem to see the bigger picture, while in “Biggering” he’s completely aware of what he is doing and how it’s effecting the environment, but his pride keeps convincing him to go bigger.
What if they had hbcib and then the Lorax starts explaining what's happening to the animals, and then we have biggering.
Omg that's what I said, yes, it makes the most sense for into work
The most fascinating part is the some exact lyrics word for word appear in both songs, yet have completely different meanings through tone alone. The theatrical version was explained that this is simply destiny, so no wrong was done. The older script explained that this is wrong on a fundamental level, but some people just don't care.
One I thought of: Biggering doesn’t have the family in it. The family is the one driving the Onceler, in the movie that ended up coming out, which is the Biggest detriment to the movie in the first place
the best differentiation between the two songs I've heard is "in How Bad Can I Be, the Lorax is only trying to save the trees. In Biggering, the Lorax is trying to save the Onceler"
Like, seriously- just compare how much more of a PRESENCE the Lorax is in Biggering compared to HBCIB, it makes the latter look like a pathetic shadow of the former's presentation. It's rlly upsetting how much of the connection between the 2 was stripped in the movie adaptation
One thing I noticed was the affection putted in "Biggering" by the composer. In "How bad can I be?" sounds empty, without any love or charm.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the subtle change in Onceler's language as Biggering goes on.
He starts off trying to paint himself as a victim of circumstance - his business is growing, he didn't know he'd require so much stuff to run his business, so he 'needs' a bigger office, and a desk, and a bigger chair, and more staff, and that's not his fault, because he's biggering! But at the end of that list of things he needs, there is something that doesn't benefit the business - a bigger hat. It's the start of his pride and being greedy. The Lorax shows up here to nip that in the bud, to tell him why he's wrong to grow the company like that, but it doesn't work because the Onceler gives the 'survival of the fittest' excuse and says he MUST keep biggering, like he doesn't have a choice in the matter. After another chorus, he abandons this. It's no longer 'MUST' keep biggering, it's 'WON'T STOP'. By the end of the song, he COULD stop, he's grown enough now, but he's snapped and given into the reward cycle of people paying for his product.
you're not the only one who likes biggering more