dont forget the shit that happened with tarkov people paying 250$ for PVP mode and yes ubisoft is shit but puts out good games once every decade when they accidently role the dice
asmon's interpretation of "pay to win" seems fundamentally distinct from, at least the guy who made the video. the guy who made the video defines "pay to win" as "boss does an unavoidable aoe attack which wipes your team unless you have a very specific ability that only a paywalled character has", while asmon defines it as "before, you spent 10 minutes on the boss, now you can autobattle it in 30 secs"
he more like, whatever make you enjoy is winning. which make p2w is not bad at all. by his defination, i can just say any game that make you spend a single cent is p2w, doesn't matter what. other than game price, everything and anything have price = p2w. he free to have opinion, but i just say his p2w is not all bad in my POV.
if someone starts picking and choosing how to define p2w, they are coping about poor financial decisions. you pay irl money to gain an advantage = pay to win. only thing you can discuss about is the severity of the pay to win. not whether its pay to win or not. if you pay to win, its pay to win. stop coping
not if ur born rich, then its like the game but u got infinite money. Real life is only like gacha-games cause People let it happen and help it, to be that way.
There’s literally a channel named “IWinToLose” and made me think deep what he meant by that. Then I realized that the more you spend on the game, the lesser you actually enjoy bcs you speed run through the grind, you level up much faster than everyone therefore you basically stomp everything in one click. Then you find yourself bored of the game bcs there’s nothing to do anymore
This is Warframe in a nutshell- they monetize things by selling items that are already easily obtainable and the ability to skip crafting times with real money. This means that if you don't pay any money the game is thousands of hours long and you end up with the same advantages and even fashion.
Yea and you don't learn how to be good at the game you have only learned to throw money at a game to be good at the game. That is losing to me if you can't beat a game without throwing money at it that just means you don't know how to really play that game and understand it.
@@actually5004 But not spending *any* money in warframe makes the game fucking miserable to play, because of designed inconvenience. I advised all my friends who got into warframe to pretend that the game isn't F2P, it's just a 20-40$ game that gives you a free trial, because trying to play with the default weapon/frame storage is torture.
It is fucking simple concept. The more you pay, you more op you are; the more op you are, the less you need to understand the game. You were basically paying for not playing. Don't know why such a simple logic worth even explaining.
It's also about frustrating you not to be able to play the character you find cool and like in-game. Why do you think most gacha have stories about every characters ? To frustrate you lol
diversity is our strength , gacha games are not pay to win , trans women are real women , you can say it a 1000 times , you cannot change objective reality
@@Shinyoloyeah, that kind of shit doesn't fucking work with me. It's so obvious that some characters are integral to the main story and gets more love and attention, while some are just filler characters in filler story quests meant to pat out the game. It doesn't frustrate anyone.
You're so smart. Tell me any youtube video or concept that can't be boiled down to a single sentence. You're watching Asmongold who usually make 1 hour videos to explain a concept that requires no explanation. If you didn't realize this by now then there is no helping you.
There are two types of people: People who want to play the game and people who want to finish the game. Asmon wants to finish the game, while the video creator wants to play the game. Its just a different mentality with different ways to play the game.
If he really wanted to just finish the game, he would use cheats. But he want to do it "fair". The problem which he refuse to see is, that in his definition of "fair", paying is an option. And for F2P gacha gamers like me, it is equal to cheats. Like you said, different point of views.
@@АлександрБычков-к4н He always adjusts the definition of cheating to match his views. For example if a Souls boss jumps off a cliff because of a bug, he considers it fair to win like that, even if he didn't beat the challenge through his skill. Personally, I don't understand this mentality to beat the game as fast as possible through any means, including autoplay after paying money (if we look at his Star Rail videos). What's the point of even playing the game anymore, if your only goal is to stop playing it as fast as possible AKA "beating" the game
pretty funny how hes been advocating against the "finishing a game" kind of mentality lately while he is literally that kind of guy, worst of all is that he probably wouldnt admit it
@@АлександрБычков-к4н Well that's asmond for you. He will basically bend an entire reality for humans to manipulate to his bidding thus making him technically right or just downright confusing. Well I don't say it's bad. definitely not bad, People don't want to be wrong infront of an audience nor would want to look stupid, I think it's just a normal behavior for him at this level of popularity.
I swear people who don't use their money on productive pursuits and leave it in a bank, will eventually fall to some degeneracy. If Asmon spent a million on gatcha and made a 'i need help' video wouldn't be shocked at all.
If he was born with the soccer ball in his _hands_ that's a penalty. I've recently been watching a lot of Asmon's Elden Ring clips. Him saying it's "easy" now has got to be a joke. He must have forgot.
No. It's EASY. I feel like the people's perception is skewed because they think death = super hard or punishing. No. The Death in Fromsoft games barely means shit, because of how much of it you supposed to have BY DESIGN, how little you loose, and how available the retry is. It has about the same value as missing one attack that does 1/4 of your HP in MHW (you miss a lot of those in both games), or doing absolutely nothing and just running around the monster looking and studying its animations. And at the end you slay the monster missing just about as much times as you would die in FS games.
@@vinniegret4841 No. It isn't easy. You have to put in effort to learn the timing and movements of enemies and if you don't input your moves precisely you are severely punished. The _concept_ is easy, the execution takes skill. Easy would be being able to brute-force your way through the game ignoring any gameplay mechanics. You cannot ignore the way FromSoft intends for you to play their games.
@@vinniegret4841 Nah bruh some ppl beat Eldin with under 500 deaths and some ppl beat Eldin with over 1k-1.5k deaths. It's very easy to tell who is better at the game.
It really depends on the game, the logic just doesn't apply to everything. In Arknights, you can absolutely pay to lose if you're not good at the game... no amount you pay will make you smarter.
The thing Asmon doesn't get about whaling making Genshin, in particular, less fun is that the game isn't designed for whales. There is nowhere to use whaled out units. Even F2P players will eventually get a character to a point where they aren't fun to use anymore. That's why Tectone hates Genshin and loves HSR. He made terrible investments by whaling in Genshin, and expects Hoyo to reward that bad investment. He hasn't done that in HSR, and his characters are balanced for the content the game is designed around. The regard where Genshin is 100% P2W is that the endgame wants you to have at least 8 characters, and many four stars require a lot of dupes to come online - so a new player that whales will be ready for the end-game far sooner than a F2P.
@@MefoWho thats not an argument, what hes saying is there is nothing to win in that game its piss easy and you are an idiot if you spend on a character just cause they are "meta"
@@bullettime1116 I didn't know it was an argument. Sounded like they were telling me to watch a video from someone. Is there an argument there? If I have to watch a video to find out, it isn't much of one
Asmon's perspective is pretty sad if you think about it. Playing the game just to end it as soon as possible with autoplay is like experiencing the story of a good novel or film by going to the Wikipedia summary. You get the plot, but you don't experience the story. With games, the challenge is part of the gameplay. Going to HSR and literally one-shotting the final story boss with the whaled-out Acheron is just skipping the gameplay entirely. Sure, HSR's main selling point is the characters and the story, but the gameplay can be fun as well. Nobody should start reading a book just to reach the end, nobody should listen to a song to the end just to mark it on a checklist, and nobody is born just to speedrun towards death. Applying that mentality to games is a sad thing to see.
@@Reffie2 who said that? He just expressed his opinion about what asmon shared in the video. And honestly, I agree with the dude. What's the point of playing a game if all you see about it is the end goal and not the experience of y'know, playing it? Might as well stick to watching movies and TV serieses since you could apply the same logic to that, and it's cheaper in today's standards
@@dinoooooom tbf the journey is what matter for me and many other i knows atleast and it isnt just about game. Like if the end is the only thing matter, then why do us, human, want to survive and experience life, why dont we speed run life so that we meet that unavoidable end.
Asmon is a streamer, duh. Gaming is his job. When you 100% 15 games a month you just want to end it so you can go do whatever the **** millionaires do off-camera.
As a FGO player, I would like to explain about the situation of FGO. For most people who don't play FGO, they believe the gameplay sucks. But for ALL people who play FGO, they believe the gameplay really sucks. We play it because the story is good. The "game" is less of a game and more of an e-book, or series of e-books. The end game is purely about how to not play the game. If a quest only has 3 waves, you never wish to go into the 4th turn. You look for consistent ways to min-turn everything. FGO players still build strong accounts because there are some quests that you must finish to continue the main story, and being able to min-turn them as well allows you to get to the rest of the story faster. For the above reasons, FGO players don't complain about gameplay because those who care about gameplay don't play the game to begin with. Also, the company that made FGO, Type Moon, made many visual novels, light novels, and animations before the game, so there exists a fanbase who like their story before the game came out. A lot of stories in these prior contents are also related to the story in FGO, so for someone who don't know about those stories would not be as attracted to FGO as well. Similar to how avengers endgame is not as attractive to those who did not seen any marvel movies or comics before. (Maybe not to the same extent since there are basic introductions to every character at the very least, but there will be a trend) Next, the gacha part. The game is actually beatable as free to play. And I don't mean the "Hey you don't NEED the meta" thing. I mean the meta changes once every 2 years. You have more than enough free gems to get EVERY new meta character. Many players go into gacha knowing that they will likely never use the 5 star in that banner because it is always the same team you will use to min-turn everything. They do it because they like the character and wish to collect them like pokemon. And it is not like you have to guess which character will become the meta because the JP sever is 2 years ahead of NA (English language) sever. If a character you wish to get in NA is meta in JP, you know for sure its still be meta for at least 2 more years. So as long as you don't play on the JP sever, you know exactly what you are getting into when you do the pulls. That being said, there are characters, usually DPS, who are slightly stronger than their competitors that comes out at a higher frequency, but the increase are usually negligible because the weaker ones can already overkill the bosses, and 90% of the time getting more copies of the older, weaker one is more beneficial than getting a new one at one copy. Finally, cause of popularity. FGO is not a primary game. Primary games are games that requires focus like elden ring and maybe genshin. They can be very fun but players really can't play multiple primary games at the same time. Secondary game like FGO -- turn base, with optimized and fixed min-turn strategy -- requires minimal focus and can be played while playing other games. This also contributes to the player counts because they are not really "competing" with anyone. Also, Type Moon is a company that was started by doing derivative work, and often explicit content. This made them unwilling and unable to stop any derivative work, including R34, due to PR reasons. This resulted the numerous entries of FGO in the certain website that starts with n and uses 6 digit numbers, and massively increased exposure. I believe most people first learned about this IP there.
I mean, the gameplay is not bad if the game was more boss focus. The problem is 98% of the time (end game wise) is just bring your strongest AOE characters to one shot enemies.
It's called football because you can only use your feet to touch the ball. Unlike your "football" which most of the time you carry the ball with your hands, which makes no sense. Deal with it.
true, it needs to be understood when you have any tutorials or you are fked I played Bloons for maaaany hours and I think Bloons is a cakewalk on chimps compared to arknights but I love both
I'd like to say that Kingdom Rush is hard enough to match, but they're inherently different games, and I've never played Arknights. I shoooouuuuuuld play it to expand my horizons, but I've strayed from mobile games over my last decade of gaming. Genshin wasn't for me, and Guardian Tales fell off due to later chapters' level grinding.
if you are playing games just to say you've played them then you've sort of lost the thread. It's a wholly recreational activity with fairly minimal tangible benefits, if you aren't enjoying the experience or at least finding it meaningful, you should probably be doing something, really anything, else.
@@Reffie2 i'm not telling him how he should play a game, I'm saying that if you pay to not play a game you are not playing the game. Now, if he likes paying to actively remove all entertainment from an entertainment product, good for him, it's just that it's an incredibly sad and superficial outlook to have on any aspect of life. Personally, I wouldn't want to buy a novel just to read its summary on Wikipedia, or skip the first 65 years of my life to "AFK" in retirement until I die.
It's just word games. If one defines "winning" as reaching ingame goals quicker and easier one arrives at the opposite conclusion from the definition of "winning" as having mor of a challenge. That's all there is to it.
@@NeoBeelzemon yea, only speedrunner is winning all other is losing cause they complete the game slower. or good gamer is winning and newbie or dumb one is losing cause they make more effort to complete the game.
if SSR SS Tier new release meta champ, and SSR SS weapon are locked behind lottery we spending. Rule of thumb is no one wants to play the main hero in gacha we want to play the Sephiroth or Momma Bear special char release. But 1 thing remains true its still locked to the lotto
Repitive hour, day or more grinds is not challenging. It's gate keeping to encourage you to pay since no amount of skill will change the low % chances of obtaining what you were farming for.
Ironically, a level 50 boss in Genshin is much harder than a lvl 90 boss because by the time you are fighting lvl 90 bosses, even as a F2P player, you have a much bigger selection of characters and weapons, and you deal absurd damage.
People who dont play gacha games overbloat the hate for them, there are actually good gacha mobile games, ive played them 🤷♂️ Asmon is a prime example, "if i want strategy and skill, ill play elden ring and sekiro" ffs those aren't even strategy games, look at how he shits on fate, while probably thinking honkai is the best gacha game out there "I feel like alot of gacha games are dying" "genshin was like the only gacha game people were playing i feel, in 2020" these quotes just show how ignorant asmon really is in this category of gaming, popular gacha games existed before 2020
"if i want strategy and skill, ill play elden ring" and the strategy is jumping heavy attacks all the way with 2 big weapons lol like, dont get me wrong, theres absolutely nothing wrong about that but i think its pretty funny when he pretends that that is any different, Asmon has a weird superiority complex or something when it comes to gacha games, like those are beneath him as if he didnt play WoW all his life lol
People hate them because they are designed to make you waste money on them, in addictive and exploitable ways that make you think wasting money on it is good, because it gives you gratification. Elden Ring you just by it once and do everything else for free, no bullshit wasting big amounts of money into trying to get a rare item, i can actually increase the item drop chance in Elden Ring to get what i want AND i still get runes by doing that. Win win.
@@dev4159 True but not entirely, what ppl dislike is the gambling aspect of it, and that also applies to lootboxes. What I'm trying to say is that you are right, they do use "addictive and exploitable ways that make you think wasting money on it is good, because it gives you gratification" but that isn't unique to gacha, a lot of micro-transaction games perfectly fit that description without needing to use gacha.
I realize I'm arguing semantics, *buuuuuuuut:* I would say defeating the final boss in a single player game is _beating_ the game, while defeating a human opponent is _winning._
I'm all for a fair challenge, or else it doesn't feel like beating, or winning. In a multiplayer game, if the match is totally one-sided in my favor, It'll still feel just as bad as being on the opposite end. I hate that actually.
I completely agree. I feel like to win you need to win AGAINST someone. Making genshin not pay to win. Pay to beat bosses faster yes. But for me that isnt winning. I think it comes down to how you define winning, and since its a definition case, this type of discourse occurs.
Pay to skip or not play content that someone doesn't want to play is actually a win. Others don't have the option to skip it. They are instead forced to do the content they dislike to progress. Paying gives you more options.
@@CL-jq1xs I played some gacha games, and I don't remember any that locked me out of necessary content-only side content that doesn't interfere with progression and barely gives any rewards. I really don't think paying gives anything more than getting things faster in those side contents.
@@CL-jq1xs but you don't skip it.. all these quests remain, you just get resources which you could get from them. So eventually you don't even skip it (like complete it behind the screen), you just avoid them this time, but to beat the game you still need to complete quests.
@@rhoem1353 I started E7 on global launch back in 2018... i very quickly realized, without a full ML team or getting EXRTREMELY lucky on my gear rolls, there is a limit on how high I can push in Arena.... sooo I said F it, and just stuck to PVE content... never ever pulled on a PvP hero... and you know what, the game is super enjoyable to this day :) Moral of the story is, avoid the PvP side of the game, and you can still enjoy it,
He's completely missing the main point of gacha games. You play for the waifus and if the gameplay happens to be good that's just a plus. They usually give you special scenes and voice lines if you own a character. You can tell by how these companies do their advertising for new banners. Hey look how cool/hot this character is. Also here's an event featuring them in the story so you get attached to them. At most they'll focus a bit on what their skills are but never in terms of meta/DPS. It's only RUclipsrs that do that.
@@raevenent751 Yup exactly. I'm sure most gacha gamers just see a character design they like and that makes them look into the game then potentially play it. I usually have no idea what the gameplay's even about until I've installed the game. I started Priconne (RIP) for the Re:Zero collab. With FGO I just tried it because I'm already a fan of Fate and wanted to check out the story/new servants. Zero of it had anything to do with liking the gameplay. Never played PGR. I'm guessing it's good huh?
@@pdpgbeh. I mean yeah, the demographic of lonely 20 something waifu freaks is large, but no, i play gachas because the gameplay/characters are genuinely interesting.
@@VanceWeebin Not sure what negative preconceptions you have but when I say "play for the waifus" I'm including characters being interesting in that. At least when it comes to female characters. The main draw in of every gacha game are already the characters. Because that's what you're ultimately selling. Even with male ones it's just for a different demographic.
Monetization Director: "I see. Then, increase the advertisements to 90% of the display. The numbers guy tell me that we'll gain more in sales than we lose to epilepsy."
Depends if the game is Solely PvE or PvP, because, that's more like Pay for Convenience than Pay to Win for a PvE game. Unless if let's say "Boss A" is impossible to beat without spending money.
@@orimu836 "Pay for Convenience" is a subset of Pay to Win. What you're doing now is trying to define moderate forms of p2w as not being "real p2w" just because they aren't as egregious as the worst forms of p2w. It's like acting as though Tylenol isn't a painkiller, because it isn't as powerful as morphine.
Pay to win in Genshin always seems so weird to me. Who do people think they are paying to win against? Themselfs? It's a singleplayer action rpg that can be fully enjoyed and completed with 4 star characters. The game is already easy as is, so people who think Genshin is P2W either never played the game or just suck at gaming in general.
The guy that brought up intentionally not summoning in ER cooked Asmon. It’s almost as if many players will feel less satisfied with their win if they take the easy way out.
Asmon is correct if you see things from his perspective, he plays the game in order to reach the end, and will play it in the fastest, most efficient way possible to reach the end. Sad and cynical mentality, but that's where he's coming from. Not sure why he wouldn't summon in Elden Ring, though, if that's his logic
Nothing worse than grinding for several days, tens of hours to get the gems to pull 10 and only get a 4-star and not be able to get a 5-star character I really want before timer runs out. Reason why I stopped playing genshin. After seeing Asmon spent around 1000$ worth on Wuthering Waves to get the Sephiroth guy character, I'm never even gonna consider spending a single cent on gatcha from this moment.
Wuthering waves is giving a five star for free today. So just chose sephiroth. There are also 5 star character selector banner. It's guaranteed a five star of your choice. Asmon just spends money, because he got em. We just play for fun. Both are fine. Just have fun
I believe the best way to more accurately describe p2w in most games would be "pay to play less". Especially with gatcha games it feels like it's never really about the game as much as it is about satisfying ones gambling problems while trying to deceive oneself that it's not actually gambling (it's arguably even worse)
The only reason I would ever validate paying in Gacha games- for the content If you are not making money off that game by streaming YT etc... there is 0 reason whatsoever to do so. The only return on Gacha purchases comes from making content for fans.
its mostly about the Waifus the rest ist just abusing natural instinct of hunter/Gatherer mind. Thats why every smart-country leader would ban those games. its making people dumb, but we dont have those leaders ever.
Good luck sustaining that argument when having the best DPS character in a particular game cant do shit because you still have to grind to a certain level before they become useful because their upgrade materials are locked behind a story quest and materials farming. The concept of associating gacha and gambling isn’t a “one size fit all” type of generalization because the game mechanics can make it to where you still have to work for it before reaping the benefits. I’d argue that Gambling is much worse because it has a Pay2Play requirement. It used to be that gacha is worse because of accessibility, but now that gambling is available online, its is the worse of the two since you’re still spending money as the entry fee. Just look at sports gambling. “Get $150 worth of bets when spending your first $5” via Fan-Duel. Whats worse is that some states now allow local gambling in places like Dave n Busters. Not even sports related, you can bet within your own friend group now.
+1. The gacha (paid & free gamble) is definitely a major but subconscious satisfaction for many players, story aside. The billion $ speaks for themselves.
in many games, paying money lets you play more. in gacha you can buy power or other characters. you really are cutting off the wait time and grind. you stop just going through the motions and actually play the game.
Welcome to how CRPG players felt when he's ranting about how much BG3 'revolutionizes' the genre and how Real time combat is bad design. Note... he has never played BG3 to my knowledge.
@@bullettime1116 Pillars of Eternity series and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous stand as my absolute favourites. Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader is also pretty decent.
3:55 i've never personally tried this, but i know for a fact that some 5 star characters have mechanics that make it exponentially easier to progress through the game. while you probably can technically still make progress without doing pulls, i imagine it's much more of a chore 9:44 so that's what he means "pay to lose". you pay money to have a less enjoyable experience. which, i'd argue, "less enjoyable" is subjective to a degree. it took me 3 hours to beat the aventurine boss. it took asmon 5 minutes, if even that 21:05 azur lane monetization relies heavily on selling skins. they give out so much free pull currency that you basically never need to buy pulls
I have money to spend, but I agree with the guy. Spending money makes the games less fun. Less challenge = less fun. The whole point of games, remember? Working the brain.
@@ChrisGrump Idk what would classified as "game" to you but that definition of yours already rules out a lot of famous game such as Dark Soul, Elden Ring, etc...
It's just not worth the money. Going for duplicates, at least. I can understand wanting at least one copy of a character or weapon you like. But, going for duplicates is a sure way to waste money *and* rob yourself of a game at the same time.
The guy has a point. A lot of gacha games don't even have pvp. If you aren't smart enough or good enough n spend money that doesn't make the game pay to win that means the game wasn't for you but you refused to admit that so you spent money till your account was good enough. Not every game is meant for everybody. No person is good at every game. You gotta realize when a game isn't for you. If you can play a game with default characters then it really isn't pay to win. Asmon disagrees cause he isn't that good at games n gladly puts hundreds n thousands into a game until he can beat stuff. Now there are gacha games that are pay to win where you can't progress to end game without extremely good luck or more than likely spend money but most really aren't pay to win. They are pay cause you are lazy or because you suck.
I have seen some gamers that In every single game, before they even know what it is, use cheat engine to give themselves max money and items. That completely ruins the experience in my mind but it's second nature to them. Whaling in a gacha game has the same energy to me. The point is the journey and how you slowly built up your account. Just throwing money on it just ruins it.
FGO is pretty fun when you start getting some of the support characters or if you're into making it more difficult for you by using non-meta servants. It's a pretty classic JRPG and I've planned to make private servers of it when it eventually dies. You can call it a guilty pleasure. I also kind of agree a bit with the whole "P2L" in this video. Spending money doesn't mean you feel good getting the character you wanted compared to saving and getting the satisfaction of acquiring them. It's all about perspective. And that's coming from someone who has money, although I came from poor conditions and worked myself up having very high disposable income. Also Asmon is making fun of the summoning screen for FGO, but it gives you basically all the information you need (time it's up, how far you have left for pity, what's on the rate up and so on). And you only see it in the summon screen. Also the reason why gacha games are starting to lose momentum is the saturation of games on the market if you ask me. At some point people start to choose which game they should play, but when that happens the amount that stays in that game might not be enough to keep it afloat or be financially beneficial for the company. Edit: He said the exact same thing basically right after I made the comment.
You don't need meta servants to pass through the game or have fun lol, everyone has been saying since the beginning that you play FGO for the waifus and characters you like. It's one of the most F2P friendly gacha games out there. "when it eventually dies." - So probably never?
P2Win on gacha games is so weird given how the bulk of gacha games are predominantly single player and its entirely beatable as well as reasonable to have the premium stuff in the game without spending a penny on it. The only thing you’re trading is your time, and video games just tend to waste your time in general.
@@ChaoticHeretic But diluting the term to that extreme literally makes the term itself meaningless, like, Risk of Rain, no one would normally call it P2W, but if you go that extreme, buying the DLC adds new items that makes a lot of characters way stronger, that by that definition makes the game P2W, and you can apply that to so many games
@@nexpersonal5066 It isn't an extreme definition of what P2W is, that is just the definition of it... it isn't meaningless at all. Obviously there are going to be examples of acceptable and non acceptable. Take fallout NV for example, there is a dlc that gives you strong gear at the start of the game, even though it doesn't mean you are certain to win it makes a huge difference. It impacts the start of your game immensely. The more obvious the advantage the more people are concerned about it. In a gatcha game you can slap 100$ on a game and literately clear 6 months worth of grinding... the dlc for Risk of rain doesn't even come close to giving you that much of a benefit. Look at trading card games like pokemon or MTG. Its better to buy a single card than it is to buy a packs of cards... or like who would have the better deck if you only got to buy three packs of cards a week and I spent 100$ to buy 8 packs every day?
@@Reffie2 I mean it's not really even gambling for most players of gacha games, as most save up the minimum amount of currency needed to hit guarantee lol
@@Shadowclaw25 Gently here means avoiding turning the conversation into an argument. At the very least, we need to make them want to listen to what we have to say. People prefer hearing suggestions to make their own choices rather than being told what to do. We don't have the right to tell them how to spend their money, so even with good intentions, a bad attitude in this situation will lead nowhere
My favorite thing about gacha games is exactly the uniqueness of your individual account resulting in a completely different playing experience. Few mechanics in games can force this uniqueness, let alone so well I'd love a gacha game that you can't use money to get wishes just to simulate this "missing puzzle pieces" feeling Arknights is an example of an amazingly designed game with a million ways to approach levels with your current setup and available characters and resources
Now, imagine a gacha game that can literally be played without gacha. (You can literally craft any character with egoshards that you get from free bp) Welcome to Limbus Company.
here, I finished his lyrics at 6:07 this is 10% luck, 90% gear 15% of what you make in a year 5% pleasure, 50% pain and a 100% reason to start selling cocaine
The hidden currency in those games is "time". The engine and the crafting and grinding is especialy made for the purpose of taking more and more time at each phase. To sell the idea that with prenium currency you can bypass "time".
I played a game called Dragon Blaze for over 6 years and eventually was blessed with the strength to finally just walk away. Over the 6+ years I had mostly played for free but spent $ here and there on "sales" accumulating over $700, once I realized that had happened I kept playing because I hated the idea of walking away from that amount of $ with nothing to show for it, the game wasn't even the same as it was when I first started playing it anymore and then eventually one day when we started moving to our new house I was too busy to do my "daily tasks" and then I forgot the next day, eventually I hadn't logged in for a week and after that I just decided "Whatever, I'm done." Same thing with Pokemon Go except I only played that for about 1 year, 90% of my gaming experiences involve things that become permanently yours and be come back to and played at any time to it's fullest without the need or option to spend more money on it. 😄👍
To me, here's the difference: In Genshin and Honkai (and to a degree as it seems for now, in WuWa): Pulls are THE GOAL. You get premium currency when you play, complete missions, explore etc. for the ultimate goal of pulling - you aren't really meant to pull for every character but every character should (in theory, anyway) be good enough to form a team for you to complete the game. P2W, pulls are a means to an end. Taking Raid SL for example, you pull so you can get stronger in one of the 3 arena PVP modes, so you can get things you can't get anywhere else. You are actively getting stronger through things other people can not get. Those games are not like that. Even if you "complete" things faster, the only reward is pulls.
It's fucking sad how ppl nowadays only consider hard games like Souls or Souls adjacent in terms of combat good games. I played the Souls Games, Bloodborne, Elden Ring, etc... I beat Malenia in 3 tries without being overleved, it's not a fucking crazy achievement, but despite all that i can proudly say i love Genshin far more than any other game i've played. Games are not just about the difficulty or how much you have to think to solve a problem. Even though Genshin hasn't got a typical end game, i dont mind at all because the sum of all the other parts more than makes up for it.
Agree. I don't care about endgame at all in GI, if they decide to add it will be happy but if not then whatever. I have other games for gameplay focused things. I think GI as a game being misunderstood by a lot of people.
@@Reffie2 It's like accusing someone of being a sad/pathetic gambling addict just because they happened to go drink a beer with some friends on a bar that happens to have a slot machine in a corner. The fact that there is a machine in there, that you don't interact with, ever, already makes you a gambler or a "sad one"? Sure, get mad at the bar owner for having it there to begin with, if you want, accusing them of trying to prey on those that lack self-control; but don't bother or accuse the friends that just went in there for a quick beer and a catching up and are having normal fun with no gambling involved. And while getting new characters uses a "gambling" system (that you can interact with for free, without paying a dime), I wouldn't call that (as long as you don't start spending money) more gambling than just the boss in WoW not dropping the item you wanted, forcing you repeat the instance to "roll the dice" again, see if this time around you get lucky.
Gacha games are pay to lose. Simply because if you spend for the good units, instead of learning the game and actually learning how to build a character, you’re gonna of course “win”, but until what point until that unit gets power crept because they don’t know how to build characters. Like Pirate Software says, if you pay to progress what are you doing? You’re getting rid of the game faster which means you’ll have nothing to do after. And if you are doing so, why are you even playing in the first place? This is also a problem for any type of game especially gacha games since you’re gonna keep getting content until eos since it’s a live service game. So you’re just gonna keep losing money if they keep making meta units each banner if you don’t know how to play the game and actually build characters as I’ve said before. So, yes gacha games are pay to lose. It’s not a fully fleshed out game like elden ring where there’s replayability even if you do finish the game quickly. You can’t have the same “win” mindset in gacha games like you do in any other type of game because unlike just losing and skipping chunks of the story and skipping past boss attacks by paying to win, gacha games do all that plus more by endlessly adding more content meaning you either just keep spending money, quit, or actually learn how to play the game. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t with gacha games. Because nothing is set in stone unlike with a $60 (now $70 thanks inflation) game that you can get everything and play to your own pace. Because if you really tell me you’d pay to skip special character interactions, dialogue, and pivotal story points, then you really haven’t ever played a game. Never tell me you enjoy cod, dark souls, elden ring, god of war, or any game with a story where you do have to follow the story and indulge in it. Pay to win only applies in pvp games. Never once do you ever “win” spending money in gacha games. Especially since most of them are pve as the guy stated in the video.
you know, 15-20 years ago that was the case, thats why a lot of people have different definitions of p2w, back in the day when a game was pay to win, it was PAY TO WIN you feel me? like youre literally not beating anyone unless you pay, nowdays if you can spend money in a game that gives you some adventage automatically is p2w, the term got diluted so much that it is pretty useless when it comes to gauge how unfair a game is
I was going to give you a counter-argument, mentioning that some games can't be beaten (PvE) unless you get your wallet out (or takes so long or such a tedious grind, it's basically impossible)... But I guess we would be talking about "Pay 2 Progress" more than "Pay 2 Win". XD
FGO story is mediocre. The main character (you) will never die. Your servants will never die. Any conflict will be resolved with fighting only. People play FGO to have their favourite character dressed in a swimsuit. No matter how good the story is, FGO is still a trash gacha game. A polished turd is still a turd.
@@Reffie2 Why would you want the main character to die? That's not a hero. What a dumb thought. GoT was not interesting in that regard. Servants do die in the story. There was plenty of conflict resolved by talking. So? Don't nature shame. And that has no relevance to story quality. It's an amazing game in every aspect and can easily be played for free. The way it connected Melty Blood with the Fate universe was a narrative masterpiece.
I remember pay to win used to mean you have advantage against other players. Asmon often talks about watering down terms, and here he is doing it himself. If pay to win means any kind of advantage, then the term ir basically pontless. You might as well call any microtransaction pay to win, because for some people having better cosmetics is winning.
He waters it down so much; that at this point we can consider ANY game P2W. Need to purchase it in order to play it? P2W! Can hire someone to beat the game for you while you sleep? P2W!
people always rewrite the definition of p2w. back in the days p2w was buying stuff on the store to beat other players in pvp. Now and days p2w is buying anything in any game to enjoy progressing in any game. so by that same logic dlc is also p2w because you wont be able to progress another part of the game without buying the dlc.
You didn't need to go as far as the DLC. By that definition they are using, buying the game in the first place is already P2W. You can't beat the first boss in Elden Ring if you don't get your wallet out and buy the game first. XD We can even stretch it more: if I pay some dude to beat the original Mario Brothers for me, while I sleep, and they kill Bowser... I can now say that even a free emulated version of Mario Brothers is P2W... They need to draw a line for the P2W definition, something along the lines of: "The existence of the shop makes the lives of F2P players miserable because the game contains PvP that puts them in a clear disadvantage against people that paid money; or the PvE part of the game has road blocks that pretty much only money can surpass."
How dare you share your accomplishments and feel good about yourself. Fr tho that’s cool bro apparently these two other guys got fd in their a by whatever your talking about because they both salty ASF LOL
@@Suzerain-Gaming Haha, thank you. Although yhat wasn't my intention, i was just trying to say that you don't need to be p2w to "unlock" the autoplay button like Assmon was saying. Besides I haven't played the game since like 3 months now
@@Suzerain-Gaming apparently saying cool is now considered being salty. That is uncool of you to put words in other people's mouths. Moving on, it is cool to see people clear MoC with autoplay with how unreliable some of the AIs are.
Another Eden is also a Really F2P friendly game because as soon as you get to chapter 13 you can start the various crossover content(out of these Persona 5 parts 1 and 2 and Tales of part 1 are the best) and get really OVERPOWERED FREE units
Arknight is the most F2P gacha I've ever played for the last 10 years playing gacha games. You can still almost beat the main stages with your free and friend's units.
You're on a site that is made by an American company, whose English-speaking content is primarily consumed by Americans, watching a channel run by an American, and you still think you're allowed to force us to use your name for the sport? Jeeze, I thought people said Americans were the entitled ones. : P
Here is my take. U can spend 10k on one single pay2win game that does not guarantee a win or u can guarantee a supply of multiple single player game that u cant even finish for the next decade.
Genshin is easy as FTP *if* you are patient enough. I'm 60+ and not particularly good (nor bad). A few fights were difficult with what I had at that point, but there was still other content available and I eventually updated some chars and changed some others, beat the stuff and kept going. The point of the game is that it''s supposed to be fun. If you pay to finish it quicker while it's fun, you lose. If you pay to finish it quicker because it's not fun, maybe you should just find a better game. Play to have fun. I can do that for free in Genshin.
I have played FGO for 1230 days over 8 years, never spent a single dime. Not saying it's good, but I personally enjoy it nevertheless cause of the lores, interesting servants' gameplay, and some of my friends whom I have persuaded to play are f2p like me too. I also have considerably decent amount of SSRs anyway (32 out of 179 to date) considering I'm not even a constant player as I have studies to focus on, so I can choose to play op gameplays if I want to too. I think it only poses problems for those f2p or partial p2w who saved a lot for a servant cause if unlucky, you just lose a large margin of your in-game savings. So being less selective instead rewards more, although it's still painful sometimes when RNG is not on my side.
At certain point he be stuck since no p2w unit out for while that help in that level not arknight player BTW so this is just from what I've seen as outside observer
@@rhoem1353 basically, if you follow guides you don't need to "P2W", but if you don't follow guides, no matter how stacked your account is, it doesnt make up for lack on brain on harder stages, it just lowers the difficulty, but doesnt assure win
NGL, not sure how that would hold up now with the appearance of cockroach alt😭. that feel like the sole exception to this. but even then you can always borrow
Gacha games aren't dying? They're ruling and other games are starting to copy them. Asmon is using a bizarre version of 'pay to win'. Pay to win means that if you pay you will win and either a person who doesn't pay CAN'T realistically win, or it's PVP and if you pay you will be massively, unfairly overpowered beyond them. As for what the video says...it's stupid. I enjoy paying for new characters. I enjoy having overpowered characters. I am not losing fun. In fact, I find the F2P experience unfun, because I can't collect characters.
Its a simple fucking concept, and Asmon just cant wrap his empty skull around it. you pay money, you become OP, enemies die faster, and you play the game less. You pay to not play the game. Its not fucking rocket science. There's no need to think, strategize, build a team with synergy, have a support/ tank/ sub DPS/ main DPS, just mindlessly kill everything. I don't find fun in that. But yeah sure, "It's pay to win whaaaa, lol you're poor, lmao mint picker." Can't expect too much from a WoW player to think anyway. At least he's self aware, and is right about one thing, and is that people watch videos to reinforce their agenda/idea of something so their opinion of something feels validated, rather than having an introspection and change their opinion, or their way of thinking because then they would be proved the were wrong. And we obviously can't have that.
It mildly annoys me how many people are willing to remove ribs so that they're able to contort themselves enough to twist the definition of P2W into something that doesn't apply to the game they personally enjoy. I enjoy gacha games, and they *are* all P2W. Some are more P2W and some are less P2W, but they are all P2W. That's okay. You're allowed to like P2W games. You don't have to pretend that the cocaine you enjoy isn't really a drug, because it isn't as bad as bath salts.
it's more, P2W gets slapped on everything even if it's reasonable to not spend money. you can always spend money for power in gachas but can you actually not win unless you spend money.
@@ultimaxkom8728 You can't grind significantly faster with money, there's a resin refresh cap. Unlocks and bragging rights yes, but you can only use 4 characters at once (or 8 in abyss, which you only play once every 3 weeks).
So you're saying that people who pay to win are winners irl? lol. Paying to get told by the game that you're the best when you did nothing worth of praise is undoubtedly loser behavior xD
As an Arknight player since the server started, and I haven't spent a penny on it, I can confidently say that the in-game economy cycle is very f2p-friendly. I spend roughly one hour per day to complete daily missions + timed-events, and that alone generates enough resources for me to pull almost all the high-tier, 6-star characters I want (or need). The main motivation for veteran Arknight players to spend money is their libido (which I don't really care for jpegs, so I safely stayed clean for 4 years now). I can't say for newcomers, however, there's an interesting thing is that the Asian Arknight community actually has a trend of using only low-tier characters to conquer all the high-difficulty levels (or use as few 6-stars as possible), so even newbies will be able to grind through levels that were designed for veterans. An W for the devs I suppose?
Asmon is not getting it. Genshin is REALLY easy. Like you can play with shit 3 star artifacts on the free main character and make it through the entire story with low effort. And if you can't? Lower the world level (difficulty)!! There is no incentive to spend money except wanting the new character
@@zSTALKn you can do events with dogshit characters and you don't really need to do abyss and the theater, hell they don't provide any substance content to the game tbh, they're there just for the primos.
@@zSTALKn I beat 36/36 Abyss and 10/10 Imaginarium Theater as a F2P, no problem. Sure, it may have taken me longer than if I dropped a few thousand dollars, but ey, I was PLAYING the GAME :-P
"People have to work harder to achieve the same thing in the game." The problem with this is that it is a game and supposed to be fun. Either it is fun and working harder is good, or it isn't fun and it isn't really a game. I agree with the guy in the video, that because it isn't pvp, the only thing you beat by buying things you don't need to beat the game, is your meat. Getting to the end faster isn't a feature, it is a sign that the game sucks. So either play it for free or realize it sucks and quit. Paying to make it go faster makes no sense.
P2w has been around for quite some time and in my book it only counts in pvp or multiplayer settings. Like mmos killing a worldboss with bought gear or losing to other players in pvp. Rest is not p2w at all. As long as you do not win the outcome over someone else most people dont care what you do.
Fate go is good granted if you don’t like 2d sprites in combat it might kill it for you most of the good parts are the story art and the card art as well as the music.
The problem with gamers like Asmo is that they think the only reason to play a game is to beat it. I rarely play a game to beat it. I play a game for enjoyment, and while Asmo may get enjoyment out of beating a game, many people do not. I like games that are creatively imaginative enough that I can play the game outside the way the developers intended for me to play it if I want to. I play video games to escape, I don't want to overcome monumental challenges, I get enough of that in real life. I find people who live in their basement and never go anywhere like that sort of thing.
There are things that i heard from my professor. Human tend to like something that is bad for them. Gacha is bad for them, but they will play it and spend money on it anyway. The only thing that can stop them, is their own self.
I 100% get where the guy is coming from with Genshin Impact. At my skill level (where I'm good with action games, I like Genshin, but don't care to get really good at it), the totally free to play rate of acquiring characters and keeping up with the game was always enough to full clear Spiral Abyss. This Spiral Abyss run would always be a blast, coz it seemed like the devs were sorta balancing the difficulty around a player like me. Now, if I had more characters to where I got a couple of key constellations, the battles in the game would turn trivial. I'd lose that challenge by overcoming it with brute force. Eventually, I'd get bored and quit. I know this can happen, because it literally happened to me. I'd been playing Genshin since launch. About a year ago, I started paying for welkin every month and even that little bonus was enough to push me over the edge where I quit the game 2 months ago. Now, in conjunction to what I said above, there's also this notion that I don't really need to keep up with the game anymore coz if I ever wanted to play Genshin seriously again, I could easily catch up by paying for Welkin for a few months. (Didn't help that content's been super slow coz Genshin is in desperate need for some big leap in its gameplay.)
The main reason why I play F/GO is the story. It's really good and also really long. The combat gameplay feels more like some oldschool turn-based RPG, which is fun in the story (and also relatively hard at times), but I'm definitely not playing this game for the farming-gameplay. I guess a lot of people probably feel that way about it. And it obviously has A LOT of different characters, where really anyone will find something they like. Also, it has the huge Fate franchise behind it, similar like World of Warcraft has the Warcraft-franchise behind it. For stuff like Genshin and Wuthering Waves: Gameplay is fun. And Genshins story actually got pretty good as well. And yeah, whaling big time in those games will kill the fun. If you are spending a bit to get that one character you really want, that's one thing, but spending hundreds to thousands of dollars to get anything super overpowered? Kind of spoils the fun in it. Now then, is it P2W? Well, yeah. Kind of. But, in my opinion, as long as there's no PvP it's basically less P2W than simply "Pay to Easy-Mode". For example, would Skyrim be p2w if you could buy a mod that gives you 10k Gold and a strong sword at the start of the game? Probably? But honestly, people will have to decide that for themselves when playing a game that's essentially a Single Player live-service game. For hardcore-meta-players it probably is p2w. For people who simply want to enjoy the story and some open world exploration, it likely doesn't matter much whether they play it for free or not (unless they really, really want that upcoming character :D).
We freely value things we like, leading to overinvestment. The "Me like" factor can trump practicality, and the sunk cost fallacy makes us persist even if it doesn't have any practical or functional value other than hot character uwwogh.
For me its as simple as: It is pay to win if you have a disadvantage against someone who spent money. This means that for my definition, diablo immoral is P2W, while genshin is not as genshin does not have pvp mechanics, and therefore you cannot have a disadvantage over someone who spends money. Note that i am not saying that the system is not predatory, nor am i defending the horrible gambling systems.
also i would like to add that every game that doesn't have pvp or a leaderboard doesn't have pay to win unless the balance is beyond broken. because you can just take your time with games such as genshin or star rail. who cares if you are behind?
I play genshin, never spent any money on it, I cap my characters to level 80 (out of 90) and sometimes even 70 because I don't want the game to become too easy. Lately I stopped farming artifacts (it's a 5 minutes per day farm) because I'm feeling I'm getting a bit too strong. Spending money would've just made it worse and ruined the game for me, so yeah I agree that gacha games are pay to lose, first you lose your money, and you lose the fun you had in that game. I considered buying skins in Genshin, but the currency being the same for the gacha and the skins doesn't feel right to me, I wish they had a completely separate currency for cosmetics
He missed the point of how gacha game made money and how lots of player pay. He treated the characters as just function and tools to reach the goal, while gacha game prey on the "barbie doll" experience from the players, players want the latest flashy and beautiful dolls to play with, the contents is just a playground for the dolls, not the endgoal, and lots of player even grew attachment and have sentimental feeling toward the characters.
I think Asmon would enjoy a game like Star Rail more if it was a proper full Visual Novel. He's willing to pay upwards of $10k to skip the gameplay, anyway
"They don't play like I do, therefore, they are sad." This is such a brainless take. If they have fun playing the game in any way, then they like the game. Sheez.
I miss 2005- 2010 gaming. We had warcraft 3 ft custom maps. I miss the intoxicating feeling of opening a custom map and feeling like its a different game everytime all at the price of a single complete product. We had it soo good.😊
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. There were a ton of games that I played for free for years, then after spending a bunch of money ($1k+) on them, I quit a few months later. I wasn't sure why this was happening at the time, but watching this made it make sense to me. Not having any weight to the decisions I needed to make made me not have any real desire to make any decisions, making me slowly lose interest in the games.
I'm going to go with Cambridge's definition of pay to win. It is pay to win where paying money gives you an unfair advantage against other players that are not. Genshin Impact and Fate Grand Order are single player games. Paying money doesn't result in an unfair advantage because your spending of money does not change the game of other players in any way. Now when a gacha games brings PvP into the mix it immediately becomes without doubt a Pay to win game. Because the PvP scene is going to be dominated by the players that spend the most money to have the best gacha characters in the game. Not all gacha games are pay to win. But some of them without doubt definitely are. Paying without doubt makes the game easier and brings convenience but its not something that I would consider pay to win.
I can't really say Arknights is P2W because even having a full strong Operators you still can't win some stage if you don't use your brain especially CC stages. Also KyostinTV is the proof that you can finish a stage with a low rarity if you have a brain. Some even quit the game because they can't finish the tutorial which is funny.
as long as it is PvE, no gacha is P2W imo, because theres nothing to be won, and paying literally only breaks your experience, even just playing can break your experience, it's why a lot of vets start getting into self imposed challenges
Stuff like HSR, Genshin or Wuthering Waves are some of the good ones. Immersive, decent rates and decent pity. I have played Dragon Ball Legends for 3 years. It was 3 years too long. DBL is basically a PVP-oriented war profiteering scam with awful lagg, lots of cheaters, and p2w meta that changes every 2 months to a degree where your last team becomes outright useless against p2w gamers. DBL has a very shallow and unenjoyabe PVE side, but its just tedious grinding. As a f2p, the game will scam you out of every single saved currency you have without giving you much of anything usable for it, just so it can proceed to pressure you into purchases with fomo combined with the competitive nature of its near-mandatory PVP. Some gacha games like DBL are just shamelessly predatory. At least these new big gacha titles are somewhat decent games for the most part and you get enough returns in the form of enjoyment. Guess i chose the wrong game and paid the price in time and effort invested into something worthless
The point is not the fact that you spend money ingame. Its the fact that you pay without knowing what you get. And thats why its pay to lose, bcs even if you spend a ton of money bcs you can and then beat the game you just spend way more than it is worth. Thats not excactly smart but well it works for the ones collecting that money from you while laughing at the customers stupidity and willingness to eat s**t with a smile on their face. have a nice day everyone.
If the free to play game has monetization like in Genshin or Wuthering Waves but is possible to beat for free, I don't count it as Pay to Win. I only count games Pay to Win if you're required to pay to actually win something, like there's no other way to win but to pay.
You pay to win draws (-something). To win draws, there's no other way than to roll more, which entails more grind and more wait - or simply to pay more.
ngl, before I played genshin i did think the game was pay to win but after actually experiencing the game, you quickly realise that its far from it. If you want a specific character, you can easilly save up gems for pulls and be almost guaranteed to get what you want. On the other hand, people beat the entire game with a single character which tells you that you dont really need anything special to enjoy the whole game.
I had a better experience playing Genshin and Star Rail as free2play than a friend who pays over 500€ per banner. Yeah maybe I don't get *all* the characters, but I get still so many I can't keep up with leveling them all and farm some good artifacts before I get a new character. And all the characters are good even at C0/E0. So I'm pretty happy with those both games. Can't speak about other Gachas since I don't play any other.
I think a hard mentality swap many players don't "get" when going into gacha games, is that you are not meant to get EVERYTHING. They have that completionist mentality from other games, thinking they are meant to get all the characters, and all their constellations and weapons and refinements... when you don't (not even as a heavy spender). Part of the fun is having to choose who your favorite characters are and make decisions on who to pull for and when to save your F2P Fates for another character you may want even more. I can only speak for Genshin Impact, but definetively shouldn't be considered a P2W game. You can crap on it for their predatory tactics (Gacha+FOMO combo); but if you have self control and don't purchase stuff just because there is a shop... it's a great F2P game/experience in general (assuming you like the style of game, is not for everoyne; same as Mario or Dark Souls aren't for everyone neither).
Also a bit of a tip here. An example of the game he said: "ARKNIGHTS" - Literally no matter how much you spend on the game, example : spending all the money in the character and getting dupes (which honestly barely fcking buffs you) WILL NOT WIN YOU ANY STAGES. It's basically a chess where you can get a better queen but the queen still does the exact same thing as a queen but flashier. Arknights in my opinion is the true pay to lose game. If you decide to spend money on that game and still not win you're brain is pretty bad. Another example: PVE games = Pay to lose if you pay money since there's nothing to beat but the game timer. PVP games = Pay to win since you are winning against poor-er people.
Eh, as a gacha F2Per (the one exception being the time I spent 5 dollars on Arknights), you will get to a certain point where your account has enough stuff in it to clear content. I have a good amount of core units in Arknights (Mountain, Surtr, Thorns, Mudrock, Chalter), in Star Rail, I have both a Mono Quantum and Follow Up Attack team (Though pulling for Jade cuz of my team choice +hot ipc mommy), and in Limbus I have full teams for Rupture,Tremor, Charge, and Poise/Bloise, and complete enough teams for Burn, Bleed and Sinking. Like it's not everything sure, but most gachas are pretty reasonable with the resources afforded to F2p players imho.
Pay 2 Win is not the same as Pay 2 have fun. There 100% is pay 2 win in runescape. Someone can buy a maxed account, maxed cash stack and enjoy end game content that would take the legit player thousands of hours to get. New players can buy bonds and sell them for millions of gp on the grand exchange immedietely, which in return takes away many hours of boring grinding for gp. Yes you can get the items yourself but iff you want to pay someone to cheese an inferno cape for you for $$ go ahead.
The pausing and interrupting was kinda off the chart with this one. I lost count of the number of times Asmon couldn't wait to get his take in, stopping him mid-sentence to start saying why he's wrong...... then unpause the video and the guy covers everything he said in the literal next second.
I suddenly remember that copypasta that spawned after a games journalist installed an easy mode for sekiro and made an article about it Dude got blasted for cringe; but was right
I made this video 2 years ago. I'm a changed man now. I'm proud to announce i've declared bankruptcy 👍
Hello Mr creator, I agree with you
Bro, you're the second Benjamin guy on YT doing gambling on digital waifu(actually, the other guy does stock trades)
yoo fellow empty bank account main
looks like youre finally winning
Are you winning son?
You’d think Gacha is bad until you realize people spent $130 to pre-order Asassins Creed Shadows just to argue the politics of it all.
dont forget the shit that happened with tarkov people paying 250$ for PVP mode and yes ubisoft is shit but puts out good games once every decade when they accidently role the dice
Whales spend 10 times more on a single banner.
Ok but gacha is still bad
Magnify on others' demerits to mask one's own.
$130 can be a meagre amount in a gacha game
asmon's interpretation of "pay to win" seems fundamentally distinct from, at least the guy who made the video. the guy who made the video defines "pay to win" as "boss does an unavoidable aoe attack which wipes your team unless you have a very specific ability that only a paywalled character has", while asmon defines it as "before, you spent 10 minutes on the boss, now you can autobattle it in 30 secs"
he more like, whatever make you enjoy is winning. which make p2w is not bad at all. by his defination, i can just say any game that make you spend a single cent is p2w, doesn't matter what. other than game price, everything and anything have price = p2w. he free to have opinion, but i just say his p2w is not all bad in my POV.
inface, i can even say game have price is p2w. you pay to play the game and have fun, i don't pay and i can't even play the game.
they're both right at the end of the day.
Gacha with forced mechanics like that literally die in a week
if someone starts picking and choosing how to define p2w, they are coping about poor financial decisions. you pay irl money to gain an advantage = pay to win.
only thing you can discuss about is the severity of the pay to win. not whether its pay to win or not. if you pay to win, its pay to win. stop coping
"Pay to lose." Sounds like reallife to me...
Basically playing as a man in a singles night dating event sim.
But you're doing it in a video game which to me, is worse.
not if ur born rich, then its like the game but u got infinite money.
Real life is only like gacha-games cause People let it happen and help it, to be that way.
You paid with your birth and will cost you your own death. -Sun Tzu Edgelord
Pay to lose irl applies to people who spend their money on narcotics and alcohol ❤
Specifically in arknights, if you have single digit iq, no amount of money is gonna help you beat the game
Texas alter, mlynar and wisadel : "allow us to introduce ourselves"
@@PitangerTrad *contingency contract live reaction* : 🗿
@@PitangerTradSEABORNE mobs yeah you'd lose
@@Diceboxxeyja alter 🗿
@@PitangerTrad Yea no. Doesn't look like you made it far in the game.
There’s literally a channel named “IWinToLose” and made me think deep what he meant by that. Then I realized that the more you spend on the game, the lesser you actually enjoy bcs you speed run through the grind, you level up much faster than everyone therefore you basically stomp everything in one click. Then you find yourself bored of the game bcs there’s nothing to do anymore
this video even has the same sountrack as IWTL, it was during genshin in-game shop frames
This is Warframe in a nutshell- they monetize things by selling items that are already easily obtainable and the ability to skip crafting times with real money. This means that if you don't pay any money the game is thousands of hours long and you end up with the same advantages and even fashion.
Yea and you don't learn how to be good at the game you have only learned to throw money at a game to be good at the game. That is losing to me if you can't beat a game without throwing money at it that just means you don't know how to really play that game and understand it.
@@actually5004 But not spending *any* money in warframe makes the game fucking miserable to play, because of designed inconvenience. I advised all my friends who got into warframe to pretend that the game isn't F2P, it's just a 20-40$ game that gives you a free trial, because trying to play with the default weapon/frame storage is torture.
Except the grind is also intentionally unenjoyable to incentivize you to pay to skip it.
It is fucking simple concept. The more you pay, you more op you are; the more op you are, the less you need to understand the game. You were basically paying for not playing. Don't know why such a simple logic worth even explaining.
It's also about frustrating you not to be able to play the character you find cool and like in-game. Why do you think most gacha have stories about every characters ? To frustrate you lol
I just watched this on 2x and read a website I am ashamed to admit, I have to agree this video may as well not exist, the answers were so obvious.
diversity is our strength , gacha games are not pay to win , trans women are real women , you can say it a 1000 times , you cannot change objective reality
@@Shinyoloyeah, that kind of shit doesn't fucking work with me. It's so obvious that some characters are integral to the main story and gets more love and attention, while some are just filler characters in filler story quests meant to pat out the game. It doesn't frustrate anyone.
You're so smart. Tell me any youtube video or concept that can't be boiled down to a single sentence. You're watching Asmongold who usually make 1 hour videos to explain a concept that requires no explanation. If you didn't realize this by now then there is no helping you.
There are two types of people: People who want to play the game and people who want to finish the game. Asmon wants to finish the game, while the video creator wants to play the game. Its just a different mentality with different ways to play the game.
If he really wanted to just finish the game, he would use cheats. But he want to do it "fair". The problem which he refuse to see is, that in his definition of "fair", paying is an option. And for F2P gacha gamers like me, it is equal to cheats. Like you said, different point of views.
@@АлександрБычков-к4н He always adjusts the definition of cheating to match his views. For example if a Souls boss jumps off a cliff because of a bug, he considers it fair to win like that, even if he didn't beat the challenge through his skill.
Personally, I don't understand this mentality to beat the game as fast as possible through any means, including autoplay after paying money (if we look at his Star Rail videos). What's the point of even playing the game anymore, if your only goal is to stop playing it as fast as possible AKA "beating" the game
@@АлександрБычков-к4нFor low-spenders too, getting a character to E6 is something almost nobody except streamers does.
pretty funny how hes been advocating against the "finishing a game" kind of mentality lately while he is literally that kind of guy, worst of all is that he probably wouldnt admit it
@@АлександрБычков-к4н Well that's asmond for you. He will basically bend an entire reality for humans to manipulate to his bidding thus making him technically right or just downright confusing.
Well I don't say it's bad. definitely not bad, People don't want to be wrong infront of an audience nor would want to look stupid, I think it's just a normal behavior for him at this level of popularity.
Asmon is falling deeper and deeper into the gacha rabbit hole
Yes he is a hypocrite 😂
From never buying a store mount to buying some of the worst shit in gacha stores
@@randomhero6365 gachas are the caffeine of gaming, it is so fucking easy to make someone addicted while at the same time looking safe and innocent.
@@simonshura9144 true.
I swear people who don't use their money on productive pursuits and leave it in a bank, will eventually fall to some degeneracy. If Asmon spent a million on gatcha and made a 'i need help' video wouldn't be shocked at all.
If he was born with the soccer ball in his _hands_ that's a penalty.
I've recently been watching a lot of Asmon's Elden Ring clips. Him saying it's "easy" now has got to be a joke. He must have forgot.
Unless he's a goalkeeper 🥸
No. It's EASY.
I feel like the people's perception is skewed because they think death = super hard or punishing. No. The Death in Fromsoft games barely means shit, because of how much of it you supposed to have BY DESIGN, how little you loose, and how available the retry is. It has about the same value as missing one attack that does 1/4 of your HP in MHW (you miss a lot of those in both games), or doing absolutely nothing and just running around the monster looking and studying its animations. And at the end you slay the monster missing just about as much times as you would die in FS games.
@@vinniegret4841 No. It isn't easy. You have to put in effort to learn the timing and movements of enemies and if you don't input your moves precisely you are severely punished. The _concept_ is easy, the execution takes skill. Easy would be being able to brute-force your way through the game ignoring any gameplay mechanics. You cannot ignore the way FromSoft intends for you to play their games.
@@vinniegret4841 Nah bruh some ppl beat Eldin with under 500 deaths and some ppl beat Eldin with over 1k-1.5k deaths. It's very easy to tell who is better at the game.
As a European, that penalty joke is hysterical LMFAOOOOO
It really depends on the game, the logic just doesn't apply to everything. In Arknights, you can absolutely pay to lose if you're not good at the game... no amount you pay will make you smarter.
This game doesn't show you mercy even at first levels... 😅
The thing Asmon doesn't get about whaling making Genshin, in particular, less fun is that the game isn't designed for whales. There is nowhere to use whaled out units. Even F2P players will eventually get a character to a point where they aren't fun to use anymore. That's why Tectone hates Genshin and loves HSR. He made terrible investments by whaling in Genshin, and expects Hoyo to reward that bad investment. He hasn't done that in HSR, and his characters are balanced for the content the game is designed around.
The regard where Genshin is 100% P2W is that the endgame wants you to have at least 8 characters, and many four stars require a lot of dupes to come online - so a new player that whales will be ready for the end-game far sooner than a F2P.
You should give Johs strife hays's video on P2W rating a go.
@@MefoWho thats not an argument, what hes saying is there is nothing to win in that game its piss easy and you are an idiot if you spend on a character just cause they are "meta"
If they "become not fun to play" than they were never fun to play
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 "X became Y." "Nuh uh, if it became Y, it was never X."
That's you.
@@bullettime1116 I didn't know it was an argument. Sounded like they were telling me to watch a video from someone. Is there an argument there? If I have to watch a video to find out, it isn't much of one
Asmon's perspective is pretty sad if you think about it. Playing the game just to end it as soon as possible with autoplay is like experiencing the story of a good novel or film by going to the Wikipedia summary. You get the plot, but you don't experience the story. With games, the challenge is part of the gameplay. Going to HSR and literally one-shotting the final story boss with the whaled-out Acheron is just skipping the gameplay entirely.
Sure, HSR's main selling point is the characters and the story, but the gameplay can be fun as well. Nobody should start reading a book just to reach the end, nobody should listen to a song to the end just to mark it on a checklist, and nobody is born just to speedrun towards death. Applying that mentality to games is a sad thing to see.
This shit got deep
If he has fun playing games like that, then he likes games. It's actually sad that you decide how others should have fun.
@@Reffie2 who said that? He just expressed his opinion about what asmon shared in the video.
And honestly, I agree with the dude. What's the point of playing a game if all you see about it is the end goal and not the experience of y'know, playing it? Might as well stick to watching movies and TV serieses since you could apply the same logic to that, and it's cheaper in today's standards
@@dinoooooom tbf the journey is what matter for me and many other i knows atleast and it isnt just about game. Like if the end is the only thing matter, then why do us, human, want to survive and experience life, why dont we speed run life so that we meet that unavoidable end.
Asmon is a streamer, duh. Gaming is his job. When you 100% 15 games a month you just want to end it so you can go do whatever the **** millionaires do off-camera.
As a FGO player, I would like to explain about the situation of FGO.
For most people who don't play FGO, they believe the gameplay sucks.
But for ALL people who play FGO, they believe the gameplay really sucks.
We play it because the story is good.
The "game" is less of a game and more of an e-book, or series of e-books.
The end game is purely about how to not play the game. If a quest only has 3 waves, you never wish to go into the 4th turn. You look for consistent ways to min-turn everything.
FGO players still build strong accounts because there are some quests that you must finish to continue the main story, and being able to min-turn them as well allows you to get to the rest of the story faster.
For the above reasons, FGO players don't complain about gameplay because those who care about gameplay don't play the game to begin with.
Also, the company that made FGO, Type Moon, made many visual novels, light novels, and animations before the game, so there exists a fanbase who like their story before the game came out.
A lot of stories in these prior contents are also related to the story in FGO, so for someone who don't know about those stories would not be as attracted to FGO as well. Similar to how avengers endgame is not as attractive to those who did not seen any marvel movies or comics before.
(Maybe not to the same extent since there are basic introductions to every character at the very least, but there will be a trend)
Next, the gacha part.
The game is actually beatable as free to play. And I don't mean the "Hey you don't NEED the meta" thing.
I mean the meta changes once every 2 years.
You have more than enough free gems to get EVERY new meta character. Many players go into gacha knowing that they will likely never use the 5 star in that banner because it is always the same team you will use to min-turn everything. They do it because they like the character and wish to collect them like pokemon.
And it is not like you have to guess which character will become the meta because the JP sever is 2 years ahead of NA (English language) sever. If a character you wish to get in NA is meta in JP, you know for sure its still be meta for at least 2 more years. So as long as you don't play on the JP sever, you know exactly what you are getting into when you do the pulls.
That being said, there are characters, usually DPS, who are slightly stronger than their competitors that comes out at a higher frequency, but the increase are usually negligible because the weaker ones can already overkill the bosses, and 90% of the time getting more copies of the older, weaker one is more beneficial than getting a new one at one copy.
Finally, cause of popularity.
FGO is not a primary game.
Primary games are games that requires focus like elden ring and maybe genshin.
They can be very fun but players really can't play multiple primary games at the same time.
Secondary game like FGO -- turn base, with optimized and fixed min-turn strategy -- requires minimal focus and can be played while playing other games. This also contributes to the player counts because they are not really "competing" with anyone.
Also, Type Moon is a company that was started by doing derivative work, and often explicit content.
This made them unwilling and unable to stop any derivative work, including R34, due to PR reasons. This resulted the numerous entries of FGO in the certain website that starts with n and uses 6 digit numbers, and massively increased exposure. I believe most people first learned about this IP there.
damn bro thats a lot of words just to say "it sucks dont play it"
Bro, no one reading all that
Yeah I read all that, probably coz I'm a Day1 FGO player. And I hate the meta part coz I've been playing on the JP Server
I mean, the gameplay is not bad if the game was more boss focus. The problem is 98% of the time (end game wise) is just bring your strongest AOE characters to one shot enemies.
Yeah same I play because the story is good definitely not because I spent 1k and didn't get a single 5 star
"I like playing good games" "i want to be done playing games as fast as possible" what
Yeah exacly,
Pick a side asmon
It's called football because you can only use your feet to touch the ball. Unlike your "football" which most of the time you carry the ball with your hands, which makes no sense. Deal with it.
It's pronounced "soccer"
wtf is a kilometer
If ur not American you’re not allowed to speak
@@professordantehs If u r Hamerican you think u can speak but actually none can hear u.
@@Lone_Wolf_91 mhm ok Mexican
Arknights is unironically the hardest tower defense out there. No amount of money could carry you through it
true, it needs to be understood when you have any tutorials or you are fked I played Bloons for maaaany hours and I think Bloons is a cakewalk on chimps compared to arknights but I love both
I'd like to say that Kingdom Rush is hard enough to match, but they're inherently different games, and I've never played Arknights.
I shoooouuuuuuld play it to expand my horizons, but I've strayed from mobile games over my last decade of gaming. Genshin wasn't for me, and Guardian Tales fell off due to later chapters' level grinding.
Arknights does require you to think well unless you just watch guides in your first attempt.
people who dont play gacha games will say you're wrong
Greetings to arkbros from limbillions that are pyrking in shadows like sweepers
*lurking
No amount of money can save you in IS
gachacels will never understand the genius of Arknights Integrated Strategies
If your objective in a game is finishing it and not experiencing it i'm not so sure you even like videogames at all.
Finishing a game is part of experiencing it. If a game is just patronizing you by wasting your time, you don't finish it.
if you are playing games just to say you've played them then you've sort of lost the thread. It's a wholly recreational activity with fairly minimal tangible benefits, if you aren't enjoying the experience or at least finding it meaningful, you should probably be doing something, really anything, else.
Don't tell people how to have fun. If Asmongold likes to play games that way, then let him.
@@Reffie2 i'm not telling him how he should play a game, I'm saying that if you pay to not play a game you are not playing the game.
Now, if he likes paying to actively remove all entertainment from an entertainment product, good for him, it's just that it's an incredibly sad and superficial outlook to have on any aspect of life. Personally, I wouldn't want to buy a novel just to read its summary on Wikipedia, or skip the first 65 years of my life to "AFK" in retirement until I die.
^ Absolutely regarded comparisons.
It's just word games. If one defines "winning" as reaching ingame goals quicker and easier one arrives at the opposite conclusion from the definition of "winning" as having mor of a challenge. That's all there is to it.
yea, if ppl want to talk about this topic, define "winning" 1st is alr turn down the argument going foward.
Like only those, who beaten Armored Core 6 pre-fix of bosses is only winners and those, who come after - losers, even if they complete game on 100%.
@@NeoBeelzemon yea, only speedrunner is winning all other is losing cause they complete the game slower. or good gamer is winning and newbie or dumb one is losing cause they make more effort to complete the game.
if SSR SS Tier new release meta champ, and SSR SS weapon are locked behind lottery we spending. Rule of thumb is no one wants to play the main hero in gacha we want to play the Sephiroth or Momma Bear special char release. But 1 thing remains true its still locked to the lotto
Repitive hour, day or more grinds is not challenging. It's gate keeping to encourage you to pay since no amount of skill will change the low % chances of obtaining what you were farming for.
Asmon my dude, a level 50 boss in Genshin is basically level 5 in most games lol
I’m starting to think he tried genshin on the side. He has already admitted to playing games offline recently.
Ironically, a level 50 boss in Genshin is much harder than a lvl 90 boss because by the time you are fighting lvl 90 bosses, even as a F2P player, you have a much bigger selection of characters and weapons, and you deal absurd damage.
You'd be surprised at the amount of classic WoW players that die to level 3 defias at the start.
@@erykoman1237 a bigger selection of characters with minimal investment put on them. That was me when I first reached wl 8 in genshin
@@justsomeguywithoutabeard8306 skill issue ???
People who dont play gacha games overbloat the hate for them, there are actually good gacha mobile games, ive played them 🤷♂️
Asmon is a prime example, "if i want strategy and skill, ill play elden ring and sekiro" ffs those aren't even strategy games, look at how he shits on fate, while probably thinking honkai is the best gacha game out there
"I feel like alot of gacha games are dying" "genshin was like the only gacha game people were playing i feel, in 2020" these quotes just show how ignorant asmon really is in this category of gaming, popular gacha games existed before 2020
"if i want strategy and skill, ill play elden ring" and the strategy is jumping heavy attacks all the way with 2 big weapons lol
like, dont get me wrong, theres absolutely nothing wrong about that but i think its pretty funny when he pretends that that is any different, Asmon has a weird superiority complex or something when it comes to gacha games, like those are beneath him as if he didnt play WoW all his life lol
People hate them because they are designed to make you waste money on them, in addictive and exploitable ways that make you think wasting money on it is good, because it gives you gratification.
Elden Ring you just by it once and do everything else for free, no bullshit wasting big amounts of money into trying to get a rare item, i can actually increase the item drop chance in Elden Ring to get what i want AND i still get runes by doing that. Win win.
Of course there's good gacha mobile games. There's good in most category. But the "good" is local and it's still gachapons.
@@dev4159 True but not entirely, what ppl dislike is the gambling aspect of it, and that also applies to lootboxes.
What I'm trying to say is that you are right, they do use "addictive and exploitable ways that make you think wasting money on it is good, because it gives you gratification" but that isn't unique to gacha, a lot of micro-transaction games perfectly fit that description without needing to use gacha.
Personaly i play then for their quality, i pay a little bit if i feel that the game is worth it
I realize I'm arguing semantics, *buuuuuuuut:* I would say defeating the final boss in a single player game is _beating_ the game, while defeating a human opponent is _winning._
I'm all for a fair challenge, or else it doesn't feel like beating, or winning. In a multiplayer game, if the match is totally one-sided in my favor, It'll still feel just as bad as being on the opposite end. I hate that actually.
For many (if not most), skipping boring grinds is definitely a concrete win. The success of repeated top-ups and boosters are the loud proof of this.
Gacha brainrot zoomer take
I completely agree. I feel like to win you need to win AGAINST someone. Making genshin not pay to win. Pay to beat bosses faster yes. But for me that isnt winning. I think it comes down to how you define winning, and since its a definition case, this type of discourse occurs.
I believe the correct term is "Pay to not play" or Pay to skip".
Pay to skip or not play content that someone doesn't want to play is actually a win. Others don't have the option to skip it. They are instead forced to do the content they dislike to progress. Paying gives you more options.
@@CL-jq1xs I played some gacha games, and I don't remember any that locked me out of necessary content-only side content that doesn't interfere with progression and barely gives any rewards. I really don't think paying gives anything more than getting things faster in those side contents.
@@CL-jq1xs but you don't skip it.. all these quests remain, you just get resources which you could get from them. So eventually you don't even skip it (like complete it behind the screen), you just avoid them this time, but to beat the game you still need to complete quests.
cope
Plenty of gacha games, have PvP.. and all of those are 100% pay to win
The best rule of thumb for playing gacha games is to see if they have PvP, if they have PvP avoid them like the plague
The worst part is that they attach awards to the pvp as well, so only the whales have a realistic shot at obtaining the best rewards. It's gross.
Epic 7 hurt that all have say
@@nexpersonal5066 or stick ONLY TO THE pve CONTENT.. ePIC 7 HAS GOOD pve CONTENT, SO i STILL PL;AY SINCE LAUNCH
@@rhoem1353 I started E7 on global launch back in 2018... i very quickly realized, without a full ML team or getting EXRTREMELY lucky on my gear rolls, there is a limit on how high I can push in Arena.... sooo I said F it, and just stuck to PVE content... never ever pulled on a PvP hero... and you know what, the game is super enjoyable to this day :)
Moral of the story is, avoid the PvP side of the game, and you can still enjoy it,
He's completely missing the main point of gacha games. You play for the waifus and if the gameplay happens to be good that's just a plus. They usually give you special scenes and voice lines if you own a character. You can tell by how these companies do their advertising for new banners. Hey look how cool/hot this character is. Also here's an event featuring them in the story so you get attached to them. At most they'll focus a bit on what their skills are but never in terms of meta/DPS. It's only RUclipsrs that do that.
u mean he is missing the point of games as a whole, he doesnt even want to play them, he just wants to end them
@@Ryan38475 I don't mean Asmond, I mean whoever made the original video. I'm not paying to lose, I'm paying for my Kama to be in a swimsuit.
@@raevenent751 Yup exactly. I'm sure most gacha gamers just see a character design they like and that makes them look into the game then potentially play it. I usually have no idea what the gameplay's even about until I've installed the game.
I started Priconne (RIP) for the Re:Zero collab. With FGO I just tried it because I'm already a fan of Fate and wanted to check out the story/new servants. Zero of it had anything to do with liking the gameplay.
Never played PGR. I'm guessing it's good huh?
@@pdpgbeh. I mean yeah, the demographic of lonely 20 something waifu freaks is large, but no, i play gachas because the gameplay/characters are genuinely interesting.
@@VanceWeebin Not sure what negative preconceptions you have but when I say "play for the waifus" I'm including characters being interesting in that. At least when it comes to female characters.
The main draw in of every gacha game are already the characters. Because that's what you're ultimately selling. Even with male ones it's just for a different demographic.
10:39 “We have determined that we'll be able to fill 80% of the user's display with advertising before inducing seizures”
Monetization Director: "I see. Then, increase the advertisements to 90% of the display. The numbers guy tell me that we'll gain more in sales than we lose to epilepsy."
Japan. That's it, it's no deeper than that. Everything there is like this, not just ads
Personal definition of P2W:
Paying money to shorten the amount of time needed for progression
Paying money to earn an advantage over your opponents
Like that dude in Diablo Immortals? XD
Depends if the game is Solely PvE or PvP, because, that's more like Pay for Convenience than Pay to Win for a PvE game. Unless if let's say "Boss A" is impossible to beat without spending money.
@@orimu836 "Pay for Convenience" is a subset of Pay to Win. What you're doing now is trying to define moderate forms of p2w as not being "real p2w" just because they aren't as egregious as the worst forms of p2w. It's like acting as though Tylenol isn't a painkiller, because it isn't as powerful as morphine.
Pay to win in Genshin always seems so weird to me. Who do people think they are paying to win against? Themselfs?
It's a singleplayer action rpg that can be fully enjoyed and completed with 4 star characters. The game is already easy as is, so people who think Genshin is P2W either never played the game or just suck at gaming in general.
@@CatacombD 100% couldn't have said it better myself
The guy that brought up intentionally not summoning in ER cooked Asmon. It’s almost as if many players will feel less satisfied with their win if they take the easy way out.
Yeah his logic fell apart there.
I think a better title would be pay to skip the game instead of pay to lose tbh
Absolutely. I don't even like preorder bonus armors and weapons in single player games because I feel like I didn't earn it.
Yeah Asmon is not cooking here, get him out of the kitchen
Asmon is correct if you see things from his perspective, he plays the game in order to reach the end, and will play it in the fastest, most efficient way possible to reach the end. Sad and cynical mentality, but that's where he's coming from. Not sure why he wouldn't summon in Elden Ring, though, if that's his logic
That came to mind for me as well
Literally called "gotcha" games cos you got scammed
Gacha games brings out frequent and the best content, guess its not a scam and is worth of value.
We've got got
Gotcha games are 99% skins... you can pay to speed up but it's not worth it
@@body187j3x1 🧢
it's not content if you're not actually playing it 🤣
@@DTreatz loads of genshin fan art that is not related to the game, its still content.
Love you Asmon, but i agree with him. it's so easy to win gacha games. it's the FOMO that gets people to spend money on PVE Games
Also characters and story. And simply the feeling of being above somebody. A combination of these m
Nothing worse than grinding for several days, tens of hours to get the gems to pull 10 and only get a 4-star and not be able to get a 5-star character I really want before timer runs out. Reason why I stopped playing genshin.
After seeing Asmon spent around 1000$ worth on Wuthering Waves to get the Sephiroth guy character, I'm never even gonna consider spending a single cent on gatcha from this moment.
Wuthering waves is giving a five star for free today. So just chose sephiroth. There are also 5 star character selector banner. It's guaranteed a five star of your choice. Asmon just spends money, because he got em. We just play for fun. Both are fine. Just have fun
Pay 2 lose is gacha game + pvp
Correction: Player vs. Named bot.
@@BevinEG sometimes even player vs admin/mods 🤣
@@Mystachi Yep. "Quality" pvp experience.
Reminded me of Summoners war pvp💀
pay 2 lose is gacha
ftfy
I believe the best way to more accurately describe p2w in most games would be "pay to play less". Especially with gatcha games it feels like it's never really about the game as much as it is about satisfying ones gambling problems while trying to deceive oneself that it's not actually gambling (it's arguably even worse)
The only reason I would ever validate paying in Gacha games- for the content
If you are not making money off that game by streaming YT etc... there is 0 reason whatsoever to do so. The only return on Gacha purchases comes from making content for fans.
its mostly about the Waifus the rest ist just abusing natural instinct of hunter/Gatherer mind. Thats why every smart-country leader would ban those games. its making people dumb, but we dont have those leaders ever.
Good luck sustaining that argument when having the best DPS character in a particular game cant do shit because you still have to grind to a certain level before they become useful because their upgrade materials are locked behind a story quest and materials farming.
The concept of associating gacha and gambling isn’t a “one size fit all” type of generalization because the game mechanics can make it to where you still have to work for it before reaping the benefits.
I’d argue that Gambling is much worse because it has a Pay2Play requirement. It used to be that gacha is worse because of accessibility, but now that gambling is available online, its is the worse of the two since you’re still spending money as the entry fee.
Just look at sports gambling. “Get $150 worth of bets when spending your first $5” via Fan-Duel.
Whats worse is that some states now allow local gambling in places like Dave n Busters. Not even sports related, you can bet within your own friend group now.
+1. The gacha (paid & free gamble) is definitely a major but subconscious satisfaction for many players, story aside. The billion $ speaks for themselves.
in many games, paying money lets you play more. in gacha you can buy power or other characters. you really are cutting off the wait time and grind. you stop just going through the motions and actually play the game.
Asmongold takes on genshin / gacha games are always beyond rewtarded since he has absolutely 0 idea what these games even are
Welcome to how CRPG players felt when he's ranting about how much BG3 'revolutionizes' the genre and how Real time combat is bad design. Note... he has never played BG3 to my knowledge.
@@Arcantropolo He played BG3 beta years ago.
@@Musashi42069 doesn't account for the final product though
@@Arcantropolo i liked bg3 and i felt like it revolutionized the genre(250hours), but it is my first crpg game and i need new recommendations
@@bullettime1116 Pillars of Eternity series and Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous stand as my absolute favourites. Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader is also pretty decent.
3:55 i've never personally tried this, but i know for a fact that some 5 star characters have mechanics that make it exponentially easier to progress through the game. while you probably can technically still make progress without doing pulls, i imagine it's much more of a chore
9:44 so that's what he means "pay to lose". you pay money to have a less enjoyable experience. which, i'd argue, "less enjoyable" is subjective to a degree. it took me 3 hours to beat the aventurine boss. it took asmon 5 minutes, if even that
21:05 azur lane monetization relies heavily on selling skins. they give out so much free pull currency that you basically never need to buy pulls
I have money to spend, but I agree with the guy. Spending money makes the games less fun. Less challenge = less fun. The whole point of games, remember? Working the brain.
@@ChrisGrump Idk what would classified as "game" to you but that definition of yours already rules out a lot of famous game such as Dark Soul, Elden Ring, etc...
@@ChrisGrump No, just look at most some of the most popular games in history Chess, and Go both of those rely on working your brain.
A valid take I agree with. Of course, waiting for energy to refill is not a challenge and I doubt you'd consider dailies as challenges.
It's just not worth the money. Going for duplicates, at least. I can understand wanting at least one copy of a character or weapon you like. But, going for duplicates is a sure way to waste money *and* rob yourself of a game at the same time.
You are both right. Some people play games just to relax, others for challenge.
1:41 no Asmon, he meant football, where you use you feet to play it, not your hands.
The guy has a point. A lot of gacha games don't even have pvp. If you aren't smart enough or good enough n spend money that doesn't make the game pay to win that means the game wasn't for you but you refused to admit that so you spent money till your account was good enough. Not every game is meant for everybody. No person is good at every game. You gotta realize when a game isn't for you. If you can play a game with default characters then it really isn't pay to win. Asmon disagrees cause he isn't that good at games n gladly puts hundreds n thousands into a game until he can beat stuff. Now there are gacha games that are pay to win where you can't progress to end game without extremely good luck or more than likely spend money but most really aren't pay to win. They are pay cause you are lazy or because you suck.
The point is that asmon is a big hypocrite xd
I have seen some gamers that In every single game, before they even know what it is, use cheat engine to give themselves max money and items. That completely ruins the experience in my mind but it's second nature to them. Whaling in a gacha game has the same energy to me. The point is the journey and how you slowly built up your account. Just throwing money on it just ruins it.
my friend is one of em. The first thing he will do is try to use CE. i never play any games with him no more
Nah cities skylines is fun with infinite money
Don't tell people how to have fun. I do agree with you.
FGO is pretty fun when you start getting some of the support characters or if you're into making it more difficult for you by using non-meta servants. It's a pretty classic JRPG and I've planned to make private servers of it when it eventually dies. You can call it a guilty pleasure.
I also kind of agree a bit with the whole "P2L" in this video. Spending money doesn't mean you feel good getting the character you wanted compared to saving and getting the satisfaction of acquiring them. It's all about perspective. And that's coming from someone who has money, although I came from poor conditions and worked myself up having very high disposable income.
Also Asmon is making fun of the summoning screen for FGO, but it gives you basically all the information you need (time it's up, how far you have left for pity, what's on the rate up and so on). And you only see it in the summon screen.
Also the reason why gacha games are starting to lose momentum is the saturation of games on the market if you ask me. At some point people start to choose which game they should play, but when that happens the amount that stays in that game might not be enough to keep it afloat or be financially beneficial for the company. Edit: He said the exact same thing basically right after I made the comment.
You don't need meta servants to pass through the game or have fun lol, everyone has been saying since the beginning that you play FGO for the waifus and characters you like. It's one of the most F2P friendly gacha games out there.
"when it eventually dies." - So probably never?
@@MW_Asura like I said, either meta servants or enjoy the difficulty of using whatever.
Wait what??? You're planning to make it offline after it dies out????
@@Maninredcape If I have the time to do it I will. We have all the assets and such public.
@@aion425 noice!!!!!
P2Win on gacha games is so weird given how the bulk of gacha games are predominantly single player and its entirely beatable as well as reasonable to have the premium stuff in the game without spending a penny on it.
The only thing you’re trading is your time, and video games just tend to waste your time in general.
pay to win doesn't mean you pay to automatically beat the game... if you can put money on a game and it makes it easier for you, thats pay to win...
@@ChaoticHeretic But diluting the term to that extreme literally makes the term itself meaningless, like, Risk of Rain, no one would normally call it P2W, but if you go that extreme, buying the DLC adds new items that makes a lot of characters way stronger, that by that definition makes the game P2W, and you can apply that to so many games
@@nexpersonal5066 It isn't an extreme definition of what P2W is, that is just the definition of it... it isn't meaningless at all. Obviously there are going to be examples of acceptable and non acceptable. Take fallout NV for example, there is a dlc that gives you strong gear at the start of the game, even though it doesn't mean you are certain to win it makes a huge difference. It impacts the start of your game immensely. The more obvious the advantage the more people are concerned about it. In a gatcha game you can slap 100$ on a game and literately clear 6 months worth of grinding... the dlc for Risk of rain doesn't even come close to giving you that much of a benefit.
Look at trading card games like pokemon or MTG. Its better to buy a single card than it is to buy a packs of cards... or like who would have the better deck if you only got to buy three packs of cards a week and I spent 100$ to buy 8 packs every day?
Pay to win or not, gacha is still gambling and therefore shit.
@@Reffie2 I mean it's not really even gambling for most players of gacha games, as most save up the minimum amount of currency needed to hit guarantee lol
Everyone's gaming experience is different, and how you play is your own choice. Telling others how to play should only be limited to suggestions
dont agree, people r so insanely stupid they play games in a way they crush their own fun. Its insane how incredible stupid people can be.
@@Shadowclaw25 I know that, but we should only express our opinions to them gently. If we insult or force them, then we are the ones in the wrong.
@@AkiraGgz if U speak truth loud it becomes wrong ?
They just get offended, but they get offended all the time.
@@Shadowclaw25 Gently here means avoiding turning the conversation into an argument. At the very least, we need to make them want to listen to what we have to say.
People prefer hearing suggestions to make their own choices rather than being told what to do. We don't have the right to tell them how to spend their money, so even with good intentions, a bad attitude in this situation will lead nowhere
and yet you just told people how to play instead of suggesting it, einstein
My favorite thing about gacha games is exactly the uniqueness of your individual account resulting in a completely different playing experience. Few mechanics in games can force this uniqueness, let alone so well
I'd love a gacha game that you can't use money to get wishes just to simulate this "missing puzzle pieces" feeling
Arknights is an example of an amazingly designed game with a million ways to approach levels with your current setup and available characters and resources
Now, imagine a gacha game that can literally be played without gacha.
(You can literally craft any character with egoshards that you get from free bp)
Welcome to Limbus Company.
@@ArcBread the gacha is the entire point
@@prosamis I mean, it DOES HAVE gacha, mostly early-mid game, though it does shape your team in a cool way...
Limbus has really cool team building
here, I finished his lyrics at 6:07
this is 10% luck, 90% gear
15% of what you make in a year
5% pleasure, 50% pain
and a 100% reason to start selling cocaine
The hidden currency in those games is "time".
The engine and the crafting and grinding is especialy made for the purpose of taking more and more time at each phase. To sell the idea that with prenium currency you can bypass "time".
I played a game called Dragon Blaze for over 6 years and eventually was blessed with the strength to finally just walk away. Over the 6+ years I had mostly played for free but spent $ here and there on "sales" accumulating over $700, once I realized that had happened I kept playing because I hated the idea of walking away from that amount of $ with nothing to show for it, the game wasn't even the same as it was when I first started playing it anymore and then eventually one day when we started moving to our new house I was too busy to do my "daily tasks" and then I forgot the next day, eventually I hadn't logged in for a week and after that I just decided "Whatever, I'm done."
Same thing with Pokemon Go except I only played that for about 1 year, 90% of my gaming experiences involve things that become permanently yours and be come back to and played at any time to it's fullest without the need or option to spend more money on it.
😄👍
When I’ve spent money on games, I normally lose interest rather quickly because I break through a hurdle only to run into another one.
To me, here's the difference:
In Genshin and Honkai (and to a degree as it seems for now, in WuWa): Pulls are THE GOAL. You get premium currency when you play, complete missions, explore etc. for the ultimate goal of pulling - you aren't really meant to pull for every character but every character should (in theory, anyway) be good enough to form a team for you to complete the game.
P2W, pulls are a means to an end. Taking Raid SL for example, you pull so you can get stronger in one of the 3 arena PVP modes, so you can get things you can't get anywhere else. You are actively getting stronger through things other people can not get.
Those games are not like that. Even if you "complete" things faster, the only reward is pulls.
It's fucking sad how ppl nowadays only consider hard games like Souls or Souls adjacent in terms of combat good games. I played the Souls Games, Bloodborne, Elden Ring, etc... I beat Malenia in 3 tries without being overleved, it's not a fucking crazy achievement, but despite all that i can proudly say i love Genshin far more than any other game i've played. Games are not just about the difficulty or how much you have to think to solve a problem. Even though Genshin hasn't got a typical end game, i dont mind at all because the sum of all the other parts more than makes up for it.
Agree. I don't care about endgame at all in GI, if they decide to add it will be happy but if not then whatever. I have other games for gameplay focused things. I think GI as a game being misunderstood by a lot of people.
people who know nothing about a subject are distributing opinions about it to farm content. yea classic human behavior (and people eat it every time)
If you love a game that has gambling mechanics, then you are the sad one.
@@Reffie2 Seems like the take of a guy who talks out of his ass and relies heavily on the opinion of others
@@Reffie2 It's like accusing someone of being a sad/pathetic gambling addict just because they happened to go drink a beer with some friends on a bar that happens to have a slot machine in a corner. The fact that there is a machine in there, that you don't interact with, ever, already makes you a gambler or a "sad one"? Sure, get mad at the bar owner for having it there to begin with, if you want, accusing them of trying to prey on those that lack self-control; but don't bother or accuse the friends that just went in there for a quick beer and a catching up and are having normal fun with no gambling involved.
And while getting new characters uses a "gambling" system (that you can interact with for free, without paying a dime), I wouldn't call that (as long as you don't start spending money) more gambling than just the boss in WoW not dropping the item you wanted, forcing you repeat the instance to "roll the dice" again, see if this time around you get lucky.
Gacha games are pay to lose. Simply because if you spend for the good units, instead of learning the game and actually learning how to build a character, you’re gonna of course “win”, but until what point until that unit gets power crept because they don’t know how to build characters. Like Pirate Software says, if you pay to progress what are you doing? You’re getting rid of the game faster which means you’ll have nothing to do after. And if you are doing so, why are you even playing in the first place? This is also a problem for any type of game especially gacha games since you’re gonna keep getting content until eos since it’s a live service game. So you’re just gonna keep losing money if they keep making meta units each banner if you don’t know how to play the game and actually build characters as I’ve said before. So, yes gacha games are pay to lose. It’s not a fully fleshed out game like elden ring where there’s replayability even if you do finish the game quickly. You can’t have the same “win” mindset in gacha games like you do in any other type of game because unlike just losing and skipping chunks of the story and skipping past boss attacks by paying to win, gacha games do all that plus more by endlessly adding more content meaning you either just keep spending money, quit, or actually learn how to play the game. You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t with gacha games. Because nothing is set in stone unlike with a $60 (now $70 thanks inflation) game that you can get everything and play to your own pace. Because if you really tell me you’d pay to skip special character interactions, dialogue, and pivotal story points, then you really haven’t ever played a game. Never tell me you enjoy cod, dark souls, elden ring, god of war, or any game with a story where you do have to follow the story and indulge in it. Pay to win only applies in pvp games. Never once do you ever “win” spending money in gacha games. Especially since most of them are pve as the guy stated in the video.
Unpopular opinion. Pay to win should only be talked about when its pvp since at thay point your litterly paying to beat another human vs a fucking cpu
you know, 15-20 years ago that was the case, thats why a lot of people have different definitions of p2w, back in the day when a game was pay to win, it was PAY TO WIN you feel me? like youre literally not beating anyone unless you pay, nowdays if you can spend money in a game that gives you some adventage automatically is p2w, the term got diluted so much that it is pretty useless when it comes to gauge how unfair a game is
I was going to give you a counter-argument, mentioning that some games can't be beaten (PvE) unless you get your wallet out (or takes so long or such a tedious grind, it's basically impossible)... But I guess we would be talking about "Pay 2 Progress" more than "Pay 2 Win". XD
FGO was written by Kinoko Nasu, one of the best literary minds humanity has to offer.
I love FGO for its story with the game elements just being a cool addition for more immersion into the story of the characters.
FGO story is mediocre. The main character (you) will never die. Your servants will never die. Any conflict will be resolved with fighting only.
People play FGO to have their favourite character dressed in a swimsuit.
No matter how good the story is, FGO is still a trash gacha game. A polished turd is still a turd.
@@Reffie2 Why would you want the main character to die? That's not a hero. What a dumb thought. GoT was not interesting in that regard.
Servants do die in the story.
There was plenty of conflict resolved by talking.
So? Don't nature shame. And that has no relevance to story quality.
It's an amazing game in every aspect and can easily be played for free.
The way it connected Melty Blood with the Fate universe was a narrative masterpiece.
I remember pay to win used to mean you have advantage against other players. Asmon often talks about watering down terms, and here he is doing it himself. If pay to win means any kind of advantage, then the term ir basically pontless. You might as well call any microtransaction pay to win, because for some people having better cosmetics is winning.
He waters it down so much; that at this point we can consider ANY game P2W. Need to purchase it in order to play it? P2W! Can hire someone to beat the game for you while you sleep? P2W!
people always rewrite the definition of p2w. back in the days p2w was buying stuff on the store to beat other players in pvp. Now and days p2w is buying anything in any game to enjoy progressing in any game. so by that same logic dlc is also p2w because you wont be able to progress another part of the game without buying the dlc.
You didn't need to go as far as the DLC. By that definition they are using, buying the game in the first place is already P2W. You can't beat the first boss in Elden Ring if you don't get your wallet out and buy the game first. XD
We can even stretch it more: if I pay some dude to beat the original Mario Brothers for me, while I sleep, and they kill Bowser... I can now say that even a free emulated version of Mario Brothers is P2W... They need to draw a line for the P2W definition, something along the lines of: "The existence of the shop makes the lives of F2P players miserable because the game contains PvP that puts them in a clear disadvantage against people that paid money; or the PvE part of the game has road blocks that pretty much only money can surpass."
F2p here, i beat Star Rail's MOC with *autoplay* without ever spending anything. The game's just way too easy lol.
Cool
How dare you share your accomplishments and feel good about yourself. Fr tho that’s cool bro apparently these two other guys got fd in their a by whatever your talking about because they both salty ASF LOL
@@Suzerain-Gaming Haha, thank you. Although yhat wasn't my intention, i was just trying to say that you don't need to be p2w to "unlock" the autoplay button like Assmon was saying. Besides I haven't played the game since like 3 months now
@@Suzerain-Gaming apparently saying cool is now considered being salty. That is uncool of you to put words in other people's mouths. Moving on, it is cool to see people clear MoC with autoplay with how unreliable some of the AIs are.
Another Eden is also a Really F2P friendly game because as soon as you get to chapter 13 you can start the various crossover content(out of these Persona 5 parts 1 and 2 and Tales of part 1 are the best) and get really OVERPOWERED FREE units
Arknight is the most F2P gacha I've ever played for the last 10 years playing gacha games. You can still almost beat the main stages with your free and friend's units.
European football has been around a lot longer than American football. Therefore it's Football and not Soccer
its also Meter not feet and it isnt miles eather XD lol merica making everything silly, just to only have it ^^
European Football? The only people in the entire world calling football "soccer" are Americans, everybody else just says football.
Soccer lol
You're on a site that is made by an American company, whose English-speaking content is primarily consumed by Americans, watching a channel run by an American, and you still think you're allowed to force us to use your name for the sport? Jeeze, I thought people said Americans were the entitled ones. : P
@@CatacombD see, Ur not ,😉😄
Here is my take. U can spend 10k on one single pay2win game that does not guarantee a win or u can guarantee a supply of multiple single player game that u cant even finish for the next decade.
Use more commas and better grammar please.
Genshin is easy as FTP *if* you are patient enough. I'm 60+ and not particularly good (nor bad). A few fights were difficult with what I had at that point, but there was still other content available and I eventually updated some chars and changed some others, beat the stuff and kept going. The point of the game is that it''s supposed to be fun. If you pay to finish it quicker while it's fun, you lose. If you pay to finish it quicker because it's not fun, maybe you should just find a better game. Play to have fun. I can do that for free in Genshin.
I have played FGO for 1230 days over 8 years, never spent a single dime. Not saying it's good, but I personally enjoy it nevertheless cause of the lores, interesting servants' gameplay, and some of my friends whom I have persuaded to play are f2p like me too. I also have considerably decent amount of SSRs anyway (32 out of 179 to date) considering I'm not even a constant player as I have studies to focus on, so I can choose to play op gameplays if I want to too.
I think it only poses problems for those f2p or partial p2w who saved a lot for a servant cause if unlucky, you just lose a large margin of your in-game savings. So being less selective instead rewards more, although it's still painful sometimes when RNG is not on my side.
I would like to see Asmond try to P2W in Arknights lol
Imagine him trying to clear Design of Strife S-3 even with a leviathan fully maxed account
At certain point he be stuck since no p2w unit out for while that help in that level not arknight player BTW so this is just from what I've seen as outside observer
@@rhoem1353 basically, if you follow guides you don't need to "P2W", but if you don't follow guides, no matter how stacked your account is, it doesnt make up for lack on brain on harder stages, it just lowers the difficulty, but doesnt assure win
NGL, not sure how that would hold up now with the appearance of cockroach alt😭. that feel like the sole exception to this. but even then you can always borrow
Gacha games aren't dying? They're ruling and other games are starting to copy them. Asmon is using a bizarre version of 'pay to win'. Pay to win means that if you pay you will win and either a person who doesn't pay CAN'T realistically win, or it's PVP and if you pay you will be massively, unfairly overpowered beyond them. As for what the video says...it's stupid. I enjoy paying for new characters. I enjoy having overpowered characters. I am not losing fun. In fact, I find the F2P experience unfun, because I can't collect characters.
It's almost like gachas are design to frustrate the F2P players with limited stamina and limited character options.
Its a simple fucking concept, and Asmon just cant wrap his empty skull around it. you pay money, you become OP, enemies die faster, and you play the game less. You pay to not play the game. Its not fucking rocket science.
There's no need to think, strategize, build a team with synergy, have a support/ tank/ sub DPS/ main DPS, just mindlessly kill everything. I don't find fun in that.
But yeah sure, "It's pay to win whaaaa, lol you're poor, lmao mint picker." Can't expect too much from a WoW player to think anyway.
At least he's self aware, and is right about one thing, and is that people watch videos to reinforce their agenda/idea of something so their opinion of something feels validated, rather than having an introspection and change their opinion, or their way of thinking because then they would be proved the were wrong. And we obviously can't have that.
You ok dude?
@@Reffie2 He is, in fact, not okay
It mildly annoys me how many people are willing to remove ribs so that they're able to contort themselves enough to twist the definition of P2W into something that doesn't apply to the game they personally enjoy.
I enjoy gacha games, and they *are* all P2W. Some are more P2W and some are less P2W, but they are all P2W. That's okay. You're allowed to like P2W games. You don't have to pretend that the cocaine you enjoy isn't really a drug, because it isn't as bad as bath salts.
it's more, P2W gets slapped on everything even if it's reasonable to not spend money. you can always spend money for power in gachas but can you actually not win unless you spend money.
Pay to win what though
^ Win time (grind), win playtime (energy), win unlocks (characters, weapons, cosmetics, etc), and win bragging rights... with money.
@@ultimaxkom8728 You can't grind significantly faster with money, there's a resin refresh cap. Unlocks and bragging rights yes, but you can only use 4 characters at once (or 8 in abyss, which you only play once every 3 weeks).
@@ancalyme You have like twice the amount of daily resin if you refresh what do you mean you won't grind faster?
It’s not pay to win if it makes you a loser instead of a winner in life
These are gamers we're talking about. CoD players wear washable diapers so they can play longer.
So you're saying that people who pay to win are winners irl? lol. Paying to get told by the game that you're the best when you did nothing worth of praise is undoubtedly loser behavior xD
In real life you still pay to loose bro,for example when you go on a first date most of the time 😂
Real life is already P2W. Drawn 2000 times but still no beaches. Jokes aside, let's separate the games from real life difficulty.
Life isn't pay to win, it's pay to play. What you use to pay to play is up to you
As an Arknight player since the server started, and I haven't spent a penny on it, I can confidently say that the in-game economy cycle is very f2p-friendly. I spend roughly one hour per day to complete daily missions + timed-events, and that alone generates enough resources for me to pull almost all the high-tier, 6-star characters I want (or need).
The main motivation for veteran Arknight players to spend money is their libido (which I don't really care for jpegs, so I safely stayed clean for 4 years now). I can't say for newcomers, however, there's an interesting thing is that the Asian Arknight community actually has a trend of using only low-tier characters to conquer all the high-difficulty levels (or use as few 6-stars as possible), so even newbies will be able to grind through levels that were designed for veterans. An W for the devs I suppose?
Asmon is not getting it. Genshin is REALLY easy. Like you can play with shit 3 star artifacts on the free main character and make it through the entire story with low effort. And if you can't? Lower the world level (difficulty)!! There is no incentive to spend money except wanting the new character
Spiral Abyss, Imaginarium Theater, Limited time events: Allow us to introduce ourselves.
@@zSTALKn you can do events with dogshit characters and you don't really need to do abyss and the theater, hell they don't provide any substance content to the game tbh, they're there just for the primos.
@@zSTALKn I beat 36/36 Abyss and 10/10 Imaginarium Theater as a F2P, no problem. Sure, it may have taken me longer than if I dropped a few thousand dollars, but ey, I was PLAYING the GAME :-P
"People have to work harder to achieve the same thing in the game." The problem with this is that it is a game and supposed to be fun. Either it is fun and working harder is good, or it isn't fun and it isn't really a game. I agree with the guy in the video, that because it isn't pvp, the only thing you beat by buying things you don't need to beat the game, is your meat. Getting to the end faster isn't a feature, it is a sign that the game sucks. So either play it for free or realize it sucks and quit. Paying to make it go faster makes no sense.
P2w has been around for quite some time and in my book it only counts in pvp or multiplayer settings. Like mmos killing a worldboss with bought gear or losing to other players in pvp. Rest is not p2w at all. As long as you do not win the outcome over someone else most people dont care what you do.
Fate go is good granted if you don’t like 2d sprites in combat it might kill it for you most of the good parts are the story art and the card art as well as the music.
The problem with gamers like Asmo is that they think the only reason to play a game is to beat it. I rarely play a game to beat it. I play a game for enjoyment, and while Asmo may get enjoyment out of beating a game, many people do not. I like games that are creatively imaginative enough that I can play the game outside the way the developers intended for me to play it if I want to. I play video games to escape, I don't want to overcome monumental challenges, I get enough of that in real life.
I find people who live in their basement and never go anywhere like that sort of thing.
1:36 Yes Asmon real football is played with the hands, that makes sense. no he ment football the game thats played wtih the feet
There are things that i heard from my professor. Human tend to like something that is bad for them. Gacha is bad for them, but they will play it and spend money on it anyway. The only thing that can stop them, is their own self.
I 100% get where the guy is coming from with Genshin Impact. At my skill level (where I'm good with action games, I like Genshin, but don't care to get really good at it), the totally free to play rate of acquiring characters and keeping up with the game was always enough to full clear Spiral Abyss. This Spiral Abyss run would always be a blast, coz it seemed like the devs were sorta balancing the difficulty around a player like me. Now, if I had more characters to where I got a couple of key constellations, the battles in the game would turn trivial. I'd lose that challenge by overcoming it with brute force. Eventually, I'd get bored and quit.
I know this can happen, because it literally happened to me. I'd been playing Genshin since launch. About a year ago, I started paying for welkin every month and even that little bonus was enough to push me over the edge where I quit the game 2 months ago. Now, in conjunction to what I said above, there's also this notion that I don't really need to keep up with the game anymore coz if I ever wanted to play Genshin seriously again, I could easily catch up by paying for Welkin for a few months. (Didn't help that content's been super slow coz Genshin is in desperate need for some big leap in its gameplay.)
The main reason why I play F/GO is the story. It's really good and also really long. The combat gameplay feels more like some oldschool turn-based RPG, which is fun in the story (and also relatively hard at times), but I'm definitely not playing this game for the farming-gameplay. I guess a lot of people probably feel that way about it. And it obviously has A LOT of different characters, where really anyone will find something they like.
Also, it has the huge Fate franchise behind it, similar like World of Warcraft has the Warcraft-franchise behind it.
For stuff like Genshin and Wuthering Waves: Gameplay is fun. And Genshins story actually got pretty good as well.
And yeah, whaling big time in those games will kill the fun. If you are spending a bit to get that one character you really want, that's one thing, but spending hundreds to thousands of dollars to get anything super overpowered? Kind of spoils the fun in it.
Now then, is it P2W? Well, yeah. Kind of. But, in my opinion, as long as there's no PvP it's basically less P2W than simply "Pay to Easy-Mode". For example, would Skyrim be p2w if you could buy a mod that gives you 10k Gold and a strong sword at the start of the game? Probably? But honestly, people will have to decide that for themselves when playing a game that's essentially a Single Player live-service game. For hardcore-meta-players it probably is p2w. For people who simply want to enjoy the story and some open world exploration, it likely doesn't matter much whether they play it for free or not (unless they really, really want that upcoming character :D).
We freely value things we like, leading to overinvestment. The "Me like" factor can trump practicality, and the sunk cost fallacy makes us persist even if it doesn't have any practical or functional value other than hot character uwwogh.
For me its as simple as:
It is pay to win if you have a disadvantage against someone who spent money.
This means that for my definition, diablo immoral is P2W, while genshin is not as genshin does not have pvp mechanics, and therefore you cannot have a disadvantage over someone who spends money.
Note that i am not saying that the system is not predatory, nor am i defending the horrible gambling systems.
also i would like to add that every game that doesn't have pvp or a leaderboard doesn't have pay to win unless the balance is beyond broken.
because you can just take your time with games such as genshin or star rail. who cares if you are behind?
So because it has no ranking its not p2w sure whatever makes you feel better about it
@@arunassakalauskas2285 it's true and i don't see you or anyone else argue against.
Only if your definition of _"winning"_ is limited to the narrow _"winning over other players"_
@@Redribbo Like thousands of people but ok.
I play genshin, never spent any money on it, I cap my characters to level 80 (out of 90) and sometimes even 70 because I don't want the game to become too easy. Lately I stopped farming artifacts (it's a 5 minutes per day farm) because I'm feeling I'm getting a bit too strong. Spending money would've just made it worse and ruined the game for me, so yeah I agree that gacha games are pay to lose, first you lose your money, and you lose the fun you had in that game. I considered buying skins in Genshin, but the currency being the same for the gacha and the skins doesn't feel right to me, I wish they had a completely separate currency for cosmetics
He missed the point of how gacha game made money and how lots of player pay. He treated the characters as just function and tools to reach the goal, while gacha game prey on the "barbie doll" experience from the players, players want the latest flashy and beautiful dolls to play with, the contents is just a playground for the dolls, not the endgoal, and lots of player even grew attachment and have sentimental feeling toward the characters.
The auto play take is kinda wild. If you can auto play the game are you evening playing the game?
I think Asmon would enjoy a game like Star Rail more if it was a proper full Visual Novel. He's willing to pay upwards of $10k to skip the gameplay, anyway
@@minimoYT Asmon has made StarRail basically visual novel he only plays when the story locks him out of autoplay
It's such an insanely sad and superficial mentality, dude straight up doesn't like videogames.
@@solaireofbadciv914 I'd like to believe it was just for content on RUclips at least I hope 🙏
"They don't play like I do, therefore, they are sad." This is such a brainless take. If they have fun playing the game in any way, then they like the game. Sheez.
I miss 2005- 2010 gaming. We had warcraft 3 ft custom maps. I miss the intoxicating feeling of opening a custom map and feeling like its a different game everytime all at the price of a single complete product. We had it soo good.😊
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. There were a ton of games that I played for free for years, then after spending a bunch of money ($1k+) on them, I quit a few months later. I wasn't sure why this was happening at the time, but watching this made it make sense to me. Not having any weight to the decisions I needed to make made me not have any real desire to make any decisions, making me slowly lose interest in the games.
I'm going to go with Cambridge's definition of pay to win. It is pay to win where paying money gives you an unfair advantage against other players that are not. Genshin Impact and Fate Grand Order are single player games. Paying money doesn't result in an unfair advantage because your spending of money does not change the game of other players in any way. Now when a gacha games brings PvP into the mix it immediately becomes without doubt a Pay to win game. Because the PvP scene is going to be dominated by the players that spend the most money to have the best gacha characters in the game.
Not all gacha games are pay to win. But some of them without doubt definitely are. Paying without doubt makes the game easier and brings convenience but its not something that I would consider pay to win.
I can't really say Arknights is P2W because even having a full strong Operators you still can't win some stage if you don't use your brain especially CC stages. Also KyostinTV is the proof that you can finish a stage with a low rarity if you have a brain. Some even quit the game because they can't finish the tutorial which is funny.
as long as it is PvE, no gacha is P2W imo, because theres nothing to be won, and paying literally only breaks your experience, even just playing can break your experience, it's why a lot of vets start getting into self imposed challenges
I'm sure Asmon already knows this but in Europe they call soccer "Football".
It's been Football longer than what Yanks play where the ball is carried 85% of the game
Not just Europe but the rest of the world outside of the Americas
Can’t we all just get along and play Maple story
Ew Nexon
Lol no the game that was in legal trouble for literally rigging the gacha pulls where you had %0 chance of wining lol.
anything but that
Stuff like HSR, Genshin or Wuthering Waves are some of the good ones. Immersive, decent rates and decent pity. I have played Dragon Ball Legends for 3 years. It was 3 years too long. DBL is basically a PVP-oriented war profiteering scam with awful lagg, lots of cheaters, and p2w meta that changes every 2 months to a degree where your last team becomes outright useless against p2w gamers. DBL has a very shallow and unenjoyabe PVE side, but its just tedious grinding. As a f2p, the game will scam you out of every single saved currency you have without giving you much of anything usable for it, just so it can proceed to pressure you into purchases with fomo combined with the competitive nature of its near-mandatory PVP. Some gacha games like DBL are just shamelessly predatory. At least these new big gacha titles are somewhat decent games for the most part and you get enough returns in the form of enjoyment. Guess i chose the wrong game and paid the price in time and effort invested into something worthless
The point is not the fact that you spend money ingame. Its the fact that you pay without knowing what you get. And thats why its pay to lose, bcs even if you spend a ton of money bcs you can and then beat the game you just spend way more than it is worth. Thats not excactly smart but well it works for the ones collecting that money from you while laughing at the customers stupidity and willingness to eat s**t with a smile on their face. have a nice day everyone.
Kinda true but atleast you fund the new games from them coming up
It's pay to loose because you're gambling
Yop but it sure is much more fun doing so because massive dopamine endorphins
Imagine playing a games for satisfaction of overcoming challenges using your own skills and abilities.... crazy....
If the free to play game has monetization like in Genshin or Wuthering Waves but is possible to beat for free, I don't count it as Pay to Win. I only count games Pay to Win if you're required to pay to actually win something, like there's no other way to win but to pay.
You pay to win draws (-something). To win draws, there's no other way than to roll more, which entails more grind and more wait - or simply to pay more.
ngl, before I played genshin i did think the game was pay to win but after actually experiencing the game, you quickly realise that its far from it.
If you want a specific character, you can easilly save up gems for pulls and be almost guaranteed to get what you want.
On the other hand, people beat the entire game with a single character which tells you that you dont really need anything special to enjoy the whole game.
I had a better experience playing Genshin and Star Rail as free2play than a friend who pays over 500€ per banner.
Yeah maybe I don't get *all* the characters, but I get still so many I can't keep up with leveling them all and farm some good artifacts before I get a new character.
And all the characters are good even at C0/E0. So I'm pretty happy with those both games. Can't speak about other Gachas since I don't play any other.
I think a hard mentality swap many players don't "get" when going into gacha games, is that you are not meant to get EVERYTHING. They have that completionist mentality from other games, thinking they are meant to get all the characters, and all their constellations and weapons and refinements... when you don't (not even as a heavy spender). Part of the fun is having to choose who your favorite characters are and make decisions on who to pull for and when to save your F2P Fates for another character you may want even more.
I can only speak for Genshin Impact, but definetively shouldn't be considered a P2W game. You can crap on it for their predatory tactics (Gacha+FOMO combo); but if you have self control and don't purchase stuff just because there is a shop... it's a great F2P game/experience in general (assuming you like the style of game, is not for everoyne; same as Mario or Dark Souls aren't for everyone neither).
I mean you can fail required tutorial in Arknights
Also a bit of a tip here. An example of the game he said:
"ARKNIGHTS" - Literally no matter how much you spend on the game, example : spending all the money in the character and getting dupes (which honestly barely fcking buffs you) WILL NOT WIN YOU ANY STAGES. It's basically a chess where you can get a better queen but the queen still does the exact same thing as a queen but flashier.
Arknights in my opinion is the true pay to lose game. If you decide to spend money on that game and still not win you're brain is pretty bad.
Another example:
PVE games = Pay to lose if you pay money since there's nothing to beat but the game timer.
PVP games = Pay to win since you are winning against poor-er people.
Eh, as a gacha F2Per (the one exception being the time I spent 5 dollars on Arknights), you will get to a certain point where your account has enough stuff in it to clear content. I have a good amount of core units in Arknights (Mountain, Surtr, Thorns, Mudrock, Chalter), in Star Rail, I have both a Mono Quantum and Follow Up Attack team (Though pulling for Jade cuz of my team choice +hot ipc mommy), and in Limbus I have full teams for Rupture,Tremor, Charge, and Poise/Bloise, and complete enough teams for Burn, Bleed and Sinking. Like it's not everything sure, but most gachas are pretty reasonable with the resources afforded to F2p players imho.
If you plan well that most dont
Pay 2 Win is not the same as Pay 2 have fun.
There 100% is pay 2 win in runescape. Someone can buy a maxed account, maxed cash stack and enjoy end game content that would take the legit player thousands of hours to get. New players can buy bonds and sell them for millions of gp on the grand exchange immedietely, which in return takes away many hours of boring grinding for gp. Yes you can get the items yourself but iff you want to pay someone to cheese an inferno cape for you for $$ go ahead.
The pausing and interrupting was kinda off the chart with this one. I lost count of the number of times Asmon couldn't wait to get his take in, stopping him mid-sentence to start saying why he's wrong...... then unpause the video and the guy covers everything he said in the literal next second.
Welcome. Is this your first time here?
@@Reffie2 this was way worse than usual brah
I suddenly remember that copypasta that spawned after a games journalist installed an easy mode for sekiro and made an article about it
Dude got blasted for cringe; but was right