After 140,000 miles… how healthy is my Porsche 996 Carrera engine? M96 assessed!
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
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My Porsche 996 Carrera AKA 'Little Irish' has been used as intended in the four years and 60,000-miles under my ownership. The overall mileage on the clock is now 140,000 miles… so how healthy is this often maligned flat six? Is a rebuild imminent? I find out with a visit to Porsche specialists Wrightune, who perform a range of tests to determine the state of play with my plucky 3.4-litre M96 engine. Let's see what the results bring!
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My 2000 996 has been my daily driver for 17 years now and has almost 240,000 miles. It has seen a few track days in the hot Southern California desert, a few autocross days, and stop and go traffic on California freeways. No smoke, great gas mileage, good power, etc. 😁
How much would you say annual maintenance has cost you to keep it so healthy for so long
Tiptronic or manual?
These are good questions ^ have wanted a 996.2 since I was little and am heavily considering making it my daily
Outstanding
You are my new idol, I have a 2002 911 cabriolet with 109,000 so You inspire me. Thanx.
My 1999 Carrera has done 200k kms. No start up smoke or anything.
These cars are so much better and more durable than people give them credit for. I drove my 2003 996.2 to 98,000 miles, including including use as my daily driver and plenty of track days, and only replaced it when I bought my 997.2 GTS. The 996 is still going with a friend of mine, and has 108,000 miles. Glad to see you driving and enjoying yours Lee, and glad to see this outcome being shared with others!
My 996 just hit 141k miles , I checked everything as well and it’s still solid and reliable ❤
I always feel anyone saying “get prepared for a rebuild” is talking absolute rubbish. These engines aren’t as unreliable as people want to make them seem. I’ve seen some go over 300k miles and 500k miles. As long as you do regular oil changes you’ll be pretty fine. The car isn’t really any different to any other car. I was told the same thing from Hartech when my Cayman S was at 100k, will need an engine rebuild now and a new crank case etc… they hadn’t even seen the car!
This is why garages end up with bad reputations.
My service centre keeps talking about lipped discs but they’re JUST 25% worn. Discs and pads all round are over £3k (not Porsche), so they can sod off!
@@kurtbarker3303 I agree, the question is, how the F do you know the car is going to need an engine rebuild just by mileage lol, Porsches aren't made of glass!
Its just a money making scheme, scaremongering amongst these garages. I used to use one who would always say at 100k you WILL need an engine rebuild... thankfully I found a much more honest and reputable garage to use.
@@kurtbarker3303 Wow that much , can't be you doing the work can it ?
My 996 3.4 has 215K miles and runs fine. Burns not much oil. Always await till normal temp reached before revving over 3k
What oil do u use?
Literally this is the definition of driven not hidden, this is a proper ownership experience, some Porsche owners merely hold their car for the next owner. Thanks for sharing
Great video. I would also add an oil sample analysis as another good tool for measuring engine health.
Great advice for the community, thanks for sharing.
I would agree with that completely.
I have a 1998 986. I realize there are somewhat different concerns with the 996, but I’m at 151k, and basically I just change the oil every 5000, change brakes, tires, etc. replaced cracked CV boots at one point. Also, it is correct to keep below 3000 before roughly 180°, however, after that, generally, I try to keep the revs above 2500. Happy driving.
Tip 1: IMO, irrespective of the make and model of car and what the manufacturer says, changing your oil and filter every 3-5,000 miles is key to engine longevity. Change every 3,000 if you drive hard, otherwise every 5K or 12 months. Personally, I'd also change the oil and filter before and after a track day, certainly afterwards.
Tip 2: And, as said, if you have a boxer engine, avoid using the car for journeys of less than 20 miles, certainly from cold. Regularly starting the car in the morning just to get something for breakfast from the local shop should be avoided.
Tip 3: Oh, and don't warm the car up before starting off! Warm it up on the move; otherwise you put the engine at high risk of bore scoring. The only engine I know of that requires several minutes of pre-drive warm up is a rotary.
You're right in your comment about the impact of bore scoring. Many, many different cars suffer bore scoring and no one bats an eyelid about it, but when it's a Porsche, everyone goes nuts about it.
Cars get bore scoring due to lack of maintenance all the time and they keep running fine.
The 996 and 997 do obviously sometimes get it worse than others, but a small amount with no excessive oil use isn't necessarily a disaster, particularly in the early cars.
It's certainly not great in a 3.8 though, so look to buy a 3.8 that's had a Hartech rebuild.
My 1997 Carrera 2 manual coupe has done 160 k miles I do a minor service every 3 thousand miles. 👍🏼 just drive it and enjoy it
My 3.6 was rebuilt by Hartech back in early 2016 on ~90k miles. It was a comprehensive job doing all six cylinders, head refresh, etc etc with a view to keeping it long term (gutted they didn’t do 3.9/4.0 back then!). Scoring wasn’t too bad but the IMS bearing was in a bad state and so were the bearing on the crank. So it wasn’t far away from disaster. I don’t do many miles (2-3k pa) but they’re not short journeys on the whole. Always a single puff of smoke on start up aside from the rare occasion the car has been used very regularly (rather than 2-3 week gaps) and it has always used some oil. I can’t really remember what it was like before Hartech rebuilt it beyond it definitely still did the smoke on start up.
The best way to tell wether or not something is going on would be by taking of the oil sump, inspecting the oil sump and bore scoping from down there
My 99 runs well and uses little to no oil at 112,000 miles, but my concern would also be in the area of valve train health, specifically the various chain guides and pads. Did you look at cam deviations with a diagnostics computer?
This is what took mine down.
Early builds are secretly bulletproof!!
A man high up and Porsche actually told me that was fact ...👌
My 997.1 (2005) has done 167k miles. Driven daily (20 min drive to work) but in Texas so it starts with warm ish oil anyway (its hot here!). Mechanically fine but all the plastic bits are slowing breaking down, AOS, water pump, pulley wheels on serp belt, all the plastic pipes etc. All suspension replaced, plus headlights as they faded badly. Recently had a coolant leak and it was the front plastic coolant pipe leaking between the injection mold seam. That is the biggest risk now to the engine, coolant pipes splitting or failing leading to an overheat. I do NOT trust the coolent temp gauge that apparently never moves from 175 regardless of if there is coolant or not!! Beware. We dont suffer any corrosion here (no salt) but the heat cycle is hard on all the plastic pipes. Oil change every 7 - 8k (done myself) but no signs of any debris in the filter yet.
Good to see, I’m pleased your car is in fine fettle considering the mileage. Mine’s on 105k miles. I added a magnetic sump plug, which helps catch any bits and I cut up the filter each time I change the oil (I haven’t found anything worrying yet)
Mine uses a bit more oil than yours, but it hasn’t changed in the 3.5 years I’ve had it. So I’m not too worried at the moment.
Good work, sounds like you're being very diligent. I find this sort of approach allows you to enjoy the car to its full potential, knowing you're not driving a ticking time bomb.
The best thing you can do for the M96 engine is drive the damn thing. Imagine a sprinter that didnt run for a long time... his joints would be screwed.
Keep doing the Lord’s work, Lee!
Lee, congrats on the condition of your m96. Amazing what fresh oil, proper service and not being afraid to put the 996 thru its paces does for engine longevity. Really is a great car.
The early 3.4 engine is very strong. Mine has 123k and runs beautifully.
My 99 C2 on 170k. Does not use a drop of oil or coolant. As Lee says regular oil service, warm up slowly and reduced heat cycles. Helps if you keep driving them. Mine runs better after a thrash in the High Peaks.
My 3.4 2000 C2 was running perfectly until 110k miles - the IMS had been done but big end bearing failure destroyed internals of engine. Full rebuild needed by Hartech - cost as much as the value of the car! Runs beautifully now though and I’m keeping it forever! It had great service history and was looked after by an excellent indie specialist who I still use. Looking back wish I’d done oil analysis at every oil change as this ‘might’ have caught the issue before bearings failed. Hartech say big ends going above 100k is more common than people think…
Probably because it’s a 1999 and the 3.4. Best chance you have against bore score and IMS failure is to buy a 1999. Unless you’ve owned the car from new and been very careful and thorough with maintenance, all other years and models are a total gamble.
My 99 had the engine replaced once (IMS) and then I had to rebuild it because of bore scoring.
@@younghem oh, they're far from bullet proof, I'm just saying a '99 gives you the best odds. But at the end of the day, it's still a roll of the dice with any M96 engine. Main reason I can't convince myself to pull the trigger on one. The Porsche tax is just too high for me.
@@Cos27O Just do it already. You’ll soon forget all about it.
Really need to check cam deviations when checking the health of the engine with these cars. My bank 1 was at 6.5 degrees, bank 2 at 1.0 degrees. Even though it cleared 6 degrees it didn't through a code. I replaced bank 1 pads (mild wear), tensioner, small chain, then retimed. Will get around to doing the same on bank 2 soon, even though it is within spec.
Did it run different afterwards?
@@hergaster4443 Nope. It was running fine before and the same after I did the work. Maybe a trained mechanic could tell but I couldn't.
My near perfect 997 suffered from bore scoring at just 30k miles. Was a great example with factory PCCB and other desirable options, so I bit the bullet and had it rebuilt. Nikasil liners, upgraded IMS, and an increase to 4.3 litres. 475bhp with 400ftlb. Absolutely flies now!
You should upload some videos of it
@@avinii planning to do a back to back with a 991.2 GT3 (manual). For daily driving, the 997 is now just as fast. Of course, rev the GT3 out beyond 7k and it just disappears.
Good to see your engine still health!
I guess your car and some others in the comments and my own at 110,000 with no issues, act as a barometer to this engine design as you are amongst the leading edge of how the design copes with high mileage and proper use . Thank you for staying with little Irish and your posts
enjoyed that and great to see the cars in good health. Interesting as I have a 92k 986 2.5 so will likely have some of the same potential issues.
Good to see the engineering and fastidious maintenance on these cars can give them such longevity and inspires me to keep piling the miles on my old boxster and to invest in keeping it healthy.
Great vid Lee and look forward to more content 👍🏼
Early 3.4 engines are solid.. it’s the 3.6 engines from 2002 till 2008 that are a massive problem
Nonsense!
😂
Massive problem? Don’t talk rubbish. That’s an engine that will be *at least 15 years old* will have had several owners, all of whom will have ‘tried’ and driven enthusiastically. After this length of time some engines are bound to have some wear issues- those that have been looked after, less so. You are just another ‘RUclips Expert’ repeating what you’ve heard as if you know what you’re talking about - usually having no experience whatsoever of the cars / engines you give an opinion of. Sick and tired of hearing this absolute BS, these engines whether 3.4 or 3.6 are high quality and are capable of good performance over high mileages IF maintained correctly and treat with the respect they deserve.
@@jackcarter66 exactly that’s why this video is a load of rubbish!!!!!!
😂
Who said M96/97 engines don't last ...Cheers from across the pond !!
It is also better to carry out a borescope from underneath if possible.
Additionally you can drop the oil pan, I did that with mine at my last oil change to see if there wasn't any debris on the bottom of the pan or in the oil pickup line.
There is a detail video from PCA explaining the mechanics behind bore scoring and IMS bearing and how to avoid them.
I have never heard of a car made that if you google it that doesn't have major failure of one sort or the other , take care of it the best you can an if it blows up it blows up , in the 70's by sixty thousand miles most cars had a new exhaust , a rad , the carb rebuilt , maybe the tranny , an multible plug and distributer cap changes , maybe a water pump or starter or thermosat plus all the other stuff that just stopped working or fell off , Dad said if it's not broke don't fix it , some want a new wiring harness when a bulb wears out , pretty sure the middle of that mess is the sweet spot 🙂
What about taking a sample and sending it for analysis, this gives a broader and deep understanding of the internal condition of and engine, transmission etc.
Just on the oil…I’m not far behind Lee with my 986 and have been using 10w-50 synthetic oil which the car is much happier on. Wonder if people are sticking with the 0w-40 and being worried about oil use.
(Also…chain tensioners, chain guides etc. That’s my current late night anxiety. Surely that’s a worry as we climb in miles.)
to ascertain your M96 health in addition to Bore score and oil filter check you'll need to check that the Camshafts deviation angle is below 6 degrees on both banks which will indicate the wear on the cam pads and IMS bearing condition ;-)
Yeah I can't believe they did not cover this at all. Seems like a very high level engine health check. At 140K miles it is almost a given these pads are done. I have pulled these pads on cars with less milage and they about to fail.
Very interesting Lee and good to see that your Porsche engine is still in a good and healthy condition for the amount of miles that's on her. If you don't mind me asking, what grade of oil do you use? Love it when you do videos on little Irish. Paul, from Sydney Australia 🇦🇺
I would suggest you check your oil pressure at idle with the engine at full operating temperature. If you're running 5W40 oil and you have over 2 bar, keep using 5W40. If you get less than 2 bar pressure, start using 10W50.
Great video and the Wrightune guys know there stuff
Looks good. Using them and regular servicing helps more than laying them up for months on end! I’d get a millers oil analysis. Cheap enough and gives you a heads up on wear materials. Crank bearings will be the weakness on the early cars. I sold mine and bought a turbo, probably out of fear of rebuild costs. Then found I needed a replacement turbo at mega money!! Duh! Should have kept the gen1 !
I have a 2008 Caymen with just under 100k. So far so good . I had thought to maybe upgrade but then I start thinking no matter what I get I’ll probably have to do major maintenance or repair on it . The one I have is just were I want it even though I would love a newer one :)
140.000 miles, that's about 5,6 laps around planet Tellus. 💪
Nothing to do with engines but was wondering why you went for the 996 anniversary instead of a 996 turbo ?
Great to hear buddy and if I'm honest not surprised nore will Porsche be as these early 996s are the strongest and yours is just another example of a well used correctly serviced and treated engine delivering a faultless result on test 👏👏👏 interestingly unless I missed it you didn't mention what grade of oil you now put in little Irish I'm guessing 5/50 ? At that miles ? And yes I agree these are not built for short stop start journeys these run best when hot not warm .. proper sports & GT cars which you certainly live up to your driven not hidden phrase 💚☘️👌🤟
Nice result Lee!
Everyone with a dual row IMSB should replace it sooner than later…it IS a wear item. I replaced mine 3 years ago with a Solution (plain bearing) and the installer said it was showin early signs of failure.
I was surprised you only change the oil on the button rather than earlier than required.
They’ll go on to do over a million miles no problem.
maybe even a billion!😀
Hard to get my head around you thinking that at 140,000 miles this is a high mileage engine. To me, this engine should just be getting broken in. With excellent care, how many miles should these engines last?
Just shows they need to be used and oil change was expecting some bits of plastic ( from chain gides )
Look at the positives, if you are using 1 ltr every 600 miles you will never need an oil change ever again.E63s do use that amount for real.
Ahahahaha!
You probably won’t remember Lee, I had my first ever Porsche driving experience with you amongst others. This was one of PCB driving days out. I’ve been suffering withdrawals ever since.
Cool
did they have a look at the main bearings? at this mileage they'll be worn
140k is not high mileage. Trust me, if it's not broken don't fix it, just monitor as normal and drive it like it should be.
140,000 miles is considered high mileage and ready for a rebuild? Hopefully Porsche can build longer lasting engines. The price that is paid for those cars and the high cost for rebuilding they should last longer.
I can understand a little more I have a 1974 911 and I’m the sixth owner of it and everybody has held off as long as they could on rebuilding the engine and I got stuck with the big price of spending $40,000 to rebuild the car the engines valve guides were shot. When I purchased my 911 it had 84,500 miles. By the time the odometer rolled over to 00000, The engine was smoking very badly and not sure about the real mileage on the car it may have 200,000 miles. Good maintenance records were not kept with the car so I have no idea the true mileage. it was embarrassing to drive with all the smoke so I decided it was time to rebuild the engine. I had My engine and transmission rebuilt and I’m just about ready to start putting the engine and transmission back in the car after doing a lot of badly needed maintenance on the whole car body.
What oil are you running?
997 carrera 2S @ 124000 🙂
Was the ims still the original?
What oil do u use ?
You think 140K miles in a 911 is "high mileage"?!?! Are you really a professional journalist specializing in Porsche? These engines can do 500K miles even with an unsympathetic driver. Mechanics often want to do work unnecessarily. Genuinely high miles in any 911, even those bearing cars, is no secret. Don't rev the engine when cold, change the oil frequently with a new filter. When the engine is hot, don't get carried away and over rev it. You need to find a new job.
This video is somewhat misleading, you are talking about the 'chocolate engine', when you know the 996.1 did not suffer with any issues, that was the 996.2.
I myself have a 996.1, that has 138k miles on the clock and it is still superb, I've had it 12 years and it still drives as well as it did when I got it.
They are amazing cars.
Not misleading at all. 996.1s suffer with problems which are well documented, sorry to disappoint you.
What oil are you running?