this is one of the most true to Star Trek moments in the franchise from its earliest days, a core tenant of Star Trek has been that through knowledge and understanding we would grow beyond our violent baser natures, that perspective would allow us to make peace and become better, and that's exactly what Badgey did
Even the Q, for all their faults, are ultimately striving to encourage improvement. Q put all of humanity on trial to humble them and make them realise how much more they had to grow, I don't think he'd ever have actually wiped us out.
IDK the Ent-D main computer did this on its own. I think it's just endemic of this era's advanced computer tech colliding with the Federation's lack of experience with full on AI.
I remember this manga I read as a kid where the protagonists were trying to stop this big bad evil guy from becoming god and dominating the world. They failed, but instead of dominating the world, the bad guy kinda went “there’s so much more interesting worlds out there, why would I care about this one?” And just left.
@@PeteandRepeat1 There's a parody fantasy story about that called 'Grunts' by Mary Gentle, the eponymous grunts being orcs in a standard Good vs Evil fantasy world. The BBEG gets defeated, dies, overcomes death and then decides to hard mode taking over the world by being elected. He ultimately leaves the world to go out and conquer galaxies because this one world it just too small and backward.
Funny I just realized HOW badgey ascended. FIrst he gave up his "good" He abandoned his connections to the mortal plane that made him sense love. Then he abandoned "logic", leaving behind that which binds ones to the rules of the universe, and finally when he gained complete knowledge the natural thing next is for "bad" to die, because more often than not a universe can't thrive without cohesion. THere for he finally did it, he abandoned all things that connected him to the universe. With his tethers gone and ultimate knowledge at his finger tips there wasn't anything to hold him back. He achieved complete ascension
Bullshit. That’s the kind of thing I would say and get absolutely hated on. The only difference is I would use the edit button to go back and spell therefore correctly.
Bruh my older bro goes crazy when he sees it. He thinks it’s like gonna lead up to something big at some point lol. Tbh I went how many seasons before I noticed it in the background in the intro
Anyone remember this? "I AM BECOMING PURE ENERGY! THE UNIVERSE IS BALANCED ON THE BACK OF A KOALA? WHY IS HE SMILING?! WHAT DOES HE KNOW!? THE SECRET. OF THE. UNIVERSE. IS! AAAAGHH!"
everyone that ascends reacts differently. that lt. as a human reacts to ascension and the wonders sdifferently than badgey who already had a more nonlinear perception of reality i think AIs' if they ascend would not be as shocked and more happy.
Really nice to see lower decks keeping with the Idea that we can in fact be better, and that the worst parts of our self are just a phase and not our defining characteristics.
We often have these 'defining moments' in our pasts that make us wonder if we'd exist without them. Hang-ups, fears, quirks, obsessions. The answer is yes.
its really refreshing. not going to lie when i first saw the show was coming out I assumed it was going to be another trashy R&M clone but no the creators clearly have a passion and understanding of Trek and used it to make a great show on its own merits
So Badgy became essentially became a freed Bill Cipher with no limitations but ended up becoming good. Imagine if these two ever encountered each other. It would be epic.
I like to think the reason why Badgey didn't freak out when he ascended while O'Connor was in pain and losing control of everything was difference of perspective and willingness to let go. O'Connor I think was still attached to his mortal existence on some level, thus perhaps he subconsciously fought against the ascension process. And as a corporeal being, his brain told him that being made of energy should burn him so he felt like he was burning. And when he saw the entirety of the universe, it didn't mesh with his understanding of the universe from a single corporeal perspective, thus it was frightening and strange. Badgey meanwhile had already experienced the universe in its entirety and had come to see thing from a truly enlightened perspective. They became free of preconceptions and simply saw everything in its entirety as it was wit h acceptance and a truly all encompassing compassion. So when they ascended it was not with fear or pain, but calm anticipation because at that point they were free of preconception and accepted everything as it was. They felt no pain, in part because they were originally an AI, but because they had truly become free from attachment to mortal existence.
Sort of makes me wonder if there something keep the stattrek universe from understanding the implications of there own technologies. With transportes, replicator and warp fields every starship in theroy could make a mini universe.. westly did by mistake. Which implies it not a big jump from human mortal to Q like
Well there is clear suggestion if not outright canon evidence that subspace is somehow tied to both the "real" world through advanced physics but also the metaphysical world through conscious thought. What Wesley and the Traveler can do for example, let alone all the various god beings of Trek. Or heck, normal people when they visited the "edge of the known universe" in the same episode conjuring things from random thoughts. @@matthewcampbell7286
I love the idea that the Big Bad becomes a God, and then quickly realizes that their badness was wrong and they just move on; imagine if Thanos had put on the Gauntlet and been like "oh, i see now. The struggle, the hardship. It all makes sense. I was a fool to think my petty perceptions of what is 'fair' meant anything to the grand scheme of all things. I will join with the universe, so that my wisdom and knowledge may become a small part of all life in the cosmos!" And that's the REAL reason no one has ever put the Gauntlet together (in the MCU); you start out wanting to become god, and you do, but not the all powerful omnipotent ruler you thought you'd become. You just become another spoke on the wheel of creation.
I think the main difference between thanos and badgy is that thanos never gained any knowledge from his quest just power. He still was set in his logic also in contrast to badgy thanos does not ascend his form and exist everywhere badgy quite literally exists and can extend throughout the universe and exist in every space in a second so it all just seems pointless to worry about
He didn't realise it was bad, he realised it had no point. I remember a show featuring a God who said along the lines of; "with but a thought I can destroy and recreate the universe again and again, but after a while... Doing so grows tiring, it is much more entertaining to watch the chaos of creation and not its destruction". I can't remember where this reference is from, but this becomes the point. When your all powerful, destroying stuff looses its fun after you've done it too many times. destruction eventually looses its spark after a few million times as all you get is pretty lights nd short flash.
I am not so sure, heck I was afraid for a moment that we would reach a scenario like "I have no mouth, but i have to scream", but, honestely to me this look like a dull episode, beside how in hell Badgey would have gain access to all computers of the entire bloody UFP? the federation in the 24 th Century should have a population of at least 497 bilions, that means he would had to gain access to, assuming each citizien had at least two personal device and one main computer, to at least 1.5 Trilions of Computers at the same times! And lightyears away noless which would meant different times to reach by subspace communications, no Ai or quantum computer would be able to crack all the codes in a few minutes, most likely it wouldn't have been possible even in 3-5 centuries so what's the point of the episode? Making a point about how nowadays we have very little logical sense both in production and anaylsis or that everything must be treated as only a silly jokes?....Thanks a lot, nutrek
@@francescosaporiti1431 Voyager/Starfleet invented hyper-subspace communications! It was likely installed across the fleet (I admit they've never directly said it, but it does make sense. This show is canonically several years after Voyager ended.) Also, the USS Cerritos is almost always doing missions within the federation, not to far from other ships and planets... the signal could have spread as fast as it did. As for how the computers were hacked, a few thoughts: -Badgey was fully versed in Starfleet systems, and smart enough to code viruses to crack systems as seen previously. -Computer Systems can be vulnerable to exploit, especially if Badgey gained access to command codes. -If Badgey gained access to a just few computer systems, he could use the vastly expanded resources of his program to help with any decryption still required. -The fact that it happens over the course of just a few seconds is just to maintain the pace of the show, something I forgive every Star Trek show for. Honestly, Lower Decks is great and written by people who really try to respect the universe and all the canon.
@@Bobsmith-xq2pr It was a great show that respect Canon way more that Nutrek did with the other show, but alas this Is Little logical. As you said Badgy should have the command codes of a full Admiral to access such vast networth and even if It did, It would be at point more logical to show him crash down due to the massive flow of information..bah honestely to me It would had more sense to unite or literraly "fused" Tom Paris' doppelganger with Badgey this way there would more logical sense on the season ARC and would explain how he Managed to recruit and create his pirate organization by scrath
Huh did anyone else notice that the last time we saw an ascension the guy vaporized/disintegrated while here badgey enters the portal and he’s fine? Maybe it has something to do with the difference between organic and synthetic that one ascends peacefully and the other painfully
O'Connor was kinda a scrub who messed around with forces he didn't understand simply for popularity. Enlightenment doesn't really suit that sort of mindset.
V'ger: Spends centuries, possible eons (if time travel is involved) gathering power and knowledge and only ascends once it merges with a human Badgey: SPEEDRUN
should've had Q show up two seconds later and drop a thing off to ruthiford 'It isn't much really, but it is so RARE we get company.' Andi t's like... nothing super advanced but like... Really nice. A classy sort of thank you.
@@FanOfMostEverything Karl Jobst: Hello you absolute legends, today I’m going to be discussing one of the most controversial speedrun skips in future speedrun history!
Congratulation kid now you know and understand the world, space, and time once you know every thing you start to appreciated all life. Good lock being every thing 🙏.
I can't help but think the "go to an empty dimension and create a universe" line was a reference to the end of the comic _Watchmen_ (and the movie? haven't seen it) with another blue glowing godling.
The movie does end sort of the same way, with the blue glowing godling deciding to go somewhere far away and create life where it won't interfere with anything else already doing its own thing.
How terrifying is it that Rutherford accidentally created a digital being that achieved not only sentience but omniscient. He outdid Geordi accidentally creating a sentient Moriarty.
Which is a bit wild, considering how much of early Schlock Mercenary was in conversation with Star Trek. (The holo-doctor in the magic cryokit, (predating Bunnigus and post-dating Todd), the design of Shep playing with LaForge, the Irreverend's place in the comic with early author's notes...) If this went full circle and Star Trek wound up talking back to Schlock Mercenary, I bet Howard Tayler would love that.
Do you think that one day we'll see everyone and every being who has ever ascended in the entire franchise? I'm hoping to see Kes and Sisko make an appearance.
@@nackteHintern This is actually one of my great annoyances with all of nu-trek. Avery Brooks was very insistent that Sisko was not gone forever, and really thanks to non-linear time wouldn't even be gone that long. He refused to let the end of DS9 be a black man leaving his pregnant wife behind. I respect that. The producers respected that and so added the lines about him returning, possibly yesterday. But, because of not using him and all this other stuff, there's now a vague implication that he has in fact been gone for decades, which I do not like. I really wish they'd just throw in a line somewhere in canon that 'yeah, he came back on the day his kid was born,' and we move on. Until it's actively discounted, that's basically my headcanon.
My running theory/hope is that if they do have sisko make a comeback, it is made explicit that, even in god form, he was still present in at least his children's lives (and preferably also his father and wife's), even if it was just in the form of visions like the prophets did for him. Like maybe the starfleet peoples that need to meet with him try the wormhole first but come up with nothing, then someone suggests talking to Jake about it and it turns out that that was all they needed to do all along. Or maybe that would be dumb and jake and... other sisko child... will come forward in the middle of some dire situation and reveal that they always knew where he was but kept it hidden for... reasons. Like to me that seems like the best possible way to both have sisko still be missing, but not be a runaway dad. Although Lower Decks offhandedly establishing that sisko came back like a week after disappearing would also be good, honestly.
@@jercoxthealmighty The second is definitely my preferred answer simply because it's highly unlikely sisko is ever going to be a major character again unless someone does a total reboot of DS9 which given it's less iconic status among the public, I doubt will ever happen. Since he's unlikely to get some big push, I don't think he needs to be saved for a dramatic moment. I think you can absolutely just have someone mention he came back a few months later, retired happily, and is just working to rebuild civilization on Bajor or something of the sort. It's the ending he would want, the ending Brooks would want, and there's no real reason not to give it to him in my opinion.
You know, based on how "relatively" easy it was for Badgy to achieve AI Godhood through Subspace, it's my personal head-canon that there are no major defenses in place to stop this happening, because all other intelligent lifeforms have come to the conclusion that whenever this happens, the AI's conciousness is invariably awed by the size of the universe, and hopelessly drawn to a higher state of existence. Therefore, there's no need to stop any AI from trying this, since they all get wowed, realize hurting anyone is meanigless and petty in the grand scheme of things, and then dip out of our plane of reality. It's kind of like if getting into a bank vault automatically turned you into an ultra-pacifist monk with no desire for earthy riches.
This Event should have severe and long lasting consequences. An AGI managed to reach godhood by infiltrating subspace, or whatever. It effortlessly infiltrated every network in the whole galaxy and maybe beyond. That's a security breach beyond the wildes nightmares.
Pretty much would be true. Once you have transcended the material plane into a being of omnipresence and infinite knowledge, the problems of simple mortal being, would become completely irrelevant to you.
Its such an underutilized trope (or subversion of trope) to have the villain succeed at transcendence and just... realize it was all stupid. And i love every time a piece of media decides to go with it.
Badgey sounds JUST LIKE Wander from Wander Over Yonder, Fix it Felix from Wreck it Ralph, Toadie from Amphibia, and Clumsy Smurf from Smurfs: The Lost Village! 😊
At [0:40] the sound while Badgey is rising from the galactic core... makes me think of the giant Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man from _Ghostbusters._ Funny, with just enough menace and terror. 😁
I know that we've only got one more season to do it in for _this_ show, but I do think it would be amusing (if John DeLancie is up for it) to have Q and Badgey get together for some (relatively) good-natured trolling of the Federation.
I think the koala thing is a human perception, each species/mind sees the universe on the back of a animal reguarded as friendly or approachable. As the mind expands they begin to percive the true lifeform maintaining the universe, but having interacted with its "cute" form they are able to maintain cordial relations and not destroy reality as a knee jerk fear reaction
I'm reminded of the time Lex Luthor had Superman's powers, and finally learned how the universe works and saw things as Superman did. It completely changed him.
So here's a fun-fact: the reason Starfleet uses a delta in their symbol, is because when they first achieved warp, it was the most stable shape for a warp-field. We now know that Badgy exists in past/present/and future. So was badgies shape the reason for that aspect of his own creation?
Do you guys think Starfleet and the Federation will ever address the _elephant in the room_ that they in fact established that a sufficiently-advanced AI can upload itself onto the Milky Way galaxy's subspace relay networks and ascend to Godhood at any time? IDK it feels pretty important given how Starfleet has had NUMEROUS problems in its track records with that kind of thing... Control, Fleet Formation, Living Construct, Moriarty, Lore, _Badgey_ ...
Idk. Someone in this comment section noticed something about this that kind of makes sense. Badgey probably didn't ascend simply because he's an advanced AI that merged with the subspace relay. Prior to doing that, he purged aspects of himself that one could see as obstacles to enlightenment. First he purged his "goodness" ridding himself of attachments. He then purged his logic, opening his mind and abandoning a hard scientific view of reality. With those obstacles gone, he was able to ascend after becoming a singularity. Had he merged with the subspace relay *without* purging his good and logical aspects first, he likely would have followed through with destroying everything and everyone connected to subspace.
Since it's technically just pure energy, it should be instantaneous if you think of Voyager. The reason why they couldn't send a subspace message back to the alpha quadrant was cuz they didn't have the power to push it so far. But once they got the super subspace transmitter they were able to have an instantaneous talk with the people that were like 40,000 light years away
See season 2 episode 3 for Shaxs recollection of his death. Also Boimler’s death in season 2 episode 3 has him finding himself in a room and seeing a black mountain through a window
It's an obscure reference to an even more obscure reference earlier in the show, which is itself a reference to the series Twin Peaks. This is a third-level Nerd Joke.
@@raymondcanessa7208 It occurs to me that the Borg probably think that they're Bodhisattvas, helping to "elevate" lesser species to their spiritual level.
One consistency in the borg: For all their sheer scale, the collective also gives them a very limited way of thinking that struggles to come up with any original idea. They assimilate new technology because they can't invent anything truly novel for themselves.
@@vylbird8014 I always had the impression that they stopped inventing new technologies for themselves because they got so powerful that it was easier to just steal it from someone else
Love the message. You ascend, understand it all, see the beauty and realise evil is pointless.
Very optimistic, very Trek
More like very Stargate
in the end its all pointless.
and it's as old as dirt.
@@WarGrowlmon18 Ascension in Stargate didn't make you a good being though, there were many examples of that.
@@Nemrai Case in point: Anubus (a single one), Ori (entire race who then decide to form a religion)
The Borg must have been.
"We know we assimilate everything but what the heck was that?"
they had an idea, and just went with the worst possible plane.
this is one of the most true to Star Trek moments in the franchise
from its earliest days, a core tenant of Star Trek has been that through knowledge and understanding we would grow beyond our violent baser natures, that perspective would allow us to make peace and become better, and that's exactly what Badgey did
Even the Q, for all their faults, are ultimately striving to encourage improvement. Q put all of humanity on trial to humble them and make them realise how much more they had to grow, I don't think he'd ever have actually wiped us out.
i figured they were gonna rid of badgey in this episode but i did NOT expect it to go down like this
You mean "Go up like this"
@@nackteHintern yes, of course XD
I mean, yeah, it was abit out of left field. But when you suddenly have god like power, petty revenge suddenly seems less forefilling
When you manage to somehow make an AI that ascends to godhood...
The only thing Buenamigo got right was that Rutherford is a real genius
Seriously that's definitely something you put on your resume
IDK the Ent-D main computer did this on its own. I think it's just endemic of this era's advanced computer tech colliding with the Federation's lack of experience with full on AI.
@@rubaiyat300 It came close, but it wasn't full Ascension. More of a new, "Isolinear-based" lifeform.
V'ger. That is all.
Weasley Crusher created a whole new civilization from nano bots that where originally made for his Science project
This is one of the few times where a character “ascends” and actually chills out
Dude expanded his horizons ot the point where he stopped and looked at his prior ambitions and was... embarassed at how small they were.
I remember this manga I read as a kid where the protagonists were trying to stop this big bad evil guy from becoming god and dominating the world. They failed, but instead of dominating the world, the bad guy kinda went “there’s so much more interesting worlds out there, why would I care about this one?” And just left.
@@PeteandRepeat1 There's a parody fantasy story about that called 'Grunts' by Mary Gentle, the eponymous grunts being orcs in a standard Good vs Evil fantasy world. The BBEG gets defeated, dies, overcomes death and then decides to hard mode taking over the world by being elected. He ultimately leaves the world to go out and conquer galaxies because this one world it just too small and backward.
for the first time in badgeys life ... he was happy
Yes finally
Funny I just realized HOW badgey ascended. FIrst he gave up his "good" He abandoned his connections to the mortal plane that made him sense love. Then he abandoned "logic", leaving behind that which binds ones to the rules of the universe, and finally when he gained complete knowledge the natural thing next is for "bad" to die, because more often than not a universe can't thrive without cohesion. THere for he finally did it, he abandoned all things that connected him to the universe. With his tethers gone and ultimate knowledge at his finger tips there wasn't anything to hold him back. He achieved complete ascension
"Let go of your earthly tether. Enter the void. Empty and become the wind."
Bullshit. That’s the kind of thing I would say and get absolutely hated on. The only difference is I would use the edit button to go back and spell therefore correctly.
@Wesley_H probably because ur rude
@@decidueyezealot8611 One can be rude and still be absolutely right, ya know. Jerk move to assume otherwise.
If someone can read this without laughing they're taking life too seriously.
There's that koala again.
Similarly, "Good luck being everything" was the same line Tendi used when O'Connor ascended in "Moist Vessel"
the koala is god.
"Why is he smiling and what does he know?"
I think they might be Q.
Bruh my older bro goes crazy when he sees it. He thinks it’s like gonna lead up to something big at some point lol. Tbh I went how many seasons before I noticed it in the background in the intro
Anyone remember this?
"I AM BECOMING PURE ENERGY! THE UNIVERSE IS BALANCED ON THE BACK OF A KOALA? WHY IS HE SMILING?! WHAT DOES HE KNOW!? THE SECRET. OF THE. UNIVERSE. IS! AAAAGHH!"
everyone that ascends reacts differently.
that lt. as a human reacts to ascension and the wonders sdifferently than badgey who already had a more nonlinear perception of reality
i think AIs' if they ascend would not be as shocked and more happy.
Also Rutherford said the same goodbye as Tendi's the last time someone ascended.
I'd assume not having a nervous system and being unable to feel it being vaporized into pure energy must be significantly less painful
As an AI Badgey was already pure energy anyway, so he probably got to skip the step of leaving behind his physical existence.
.ydaer saw yegdaB
Really nice to see lower decks keeping with the Idea that we can in fact be better, and that the worst parts of our self are just a phase and not our defining characteristics.
We often have these 'defining moments' in our pasts that make us wonder if we'd exist without them. Hang-ups, fears, quirks, obsessions. The answer is yes.
its really refreshing. not going to lie when i first saw the show was coming out I assumed it was going to be another trashy R&M clone but no the creators clearly have a passion and understanding of Trek and used it to make a great show on its own merits
So Badgy became essentially became a freed Bill Cipher with no limitations but ended up becoming good.
Imagine if these two ever encountered each other. It would be epic.
0:40 That shot of Badgey rising out of the Milky Way as he becomes a God is actually really cool
The anime 'Gunbuster' has something like it. The first one, not the much later one...
Meanwhile the borg. “What the fuck was that?!”
So...Badgey basically became a benevolent Bill Cipher.
It helps that, unlike Bill, he didn't torch the place on the way out.
Their battle in the multiversal cosmos will entertain The Koala.
@@LexYeen you mean the Qoala? :D
I like to think the reason why Badgey didn't freak out when he ascended while O'Connor was in pain and losing control of everything was difference of perspective and willingness to let go.
O'Connor I think was still attached to his mortal existence on some level, thus perhaps he subconsciously fought against the ascension process. And as a corporeal being, his brain told him that being made of energy should burn him so he felt like he was burning. And when he saw the entirety of the universe, it didn't mesh with his understanding of the universe from a single corporeal perspective, thus it was frightening and strange.
Badgey meanwhile had already experienced the universe in its entirety and had come to see thing from a truly enlightened perspective. They became free of preconceptions and simply saw everything in its entirety as it was wit h acceptance and a truly all encompassing compassion. So when they ascended it was not with fear or pain, but calm anticipation because at that point they were free of preconception and accepted everything as it was. They felt no pain, in part because they were originally an AI, but because they had truly become free from attachment to mortal existence.
Or O'Connor was made of meat.
What an interesting theory.
Of course he didn't want to go he just made out with a sexy green alien girl
O'Connor was a take on Buddha it's said he didnt achieve enlightenment until after he gave up on enlightenedment.
Pretty sure he was being punished for not taking ascension seriously.
Rutherford and Tendi both created advanced beings. They definitely belong together
Sort of makes me wonder if there something keep the stattrek universe from understanding the implications of there own technologies. With transportes, replicator and warp fields every starship in theroy could make a mini universe.. westly did by mistake. Which implies it not a big jump from human mortal to Q like
I would not be surprised if we learned The Dog ascended after Tendi and Boimler left the Farm.
Yea but Tendi did a better job with "the dog" none of the parental issues.
Oh man we need another The Dog episode.
Well there is clear suggestion if not outright canon evidence that subspace is somehow tied to both the "real" world through advanced physics but also the metaphysical world through conscious thought. What Wesley and the Traveler can do for example, let alone all the various god beings of Trek. Or heck, normal people when they visited the "edge of the known universe" in the same episode conjuring things from random thoughts. @@matthewcampbell7286
_"I can detonate any Warp core!"_
That did not aged well...
Wait did badgey cause the burn then?!!
I love the idea that the Big Bad becomes a God, and then quickly realizes that their badness was wrong and they just move on; imagine if Thanos had put on the Gauntlet and been like "oh, i see now. The struggle, the hardship. It all makes sense. I was a fool to think my petty perceptions of what is 'fair' meant anything to the grand scheme of all things. I will join with the universe, so that my wisdom and knowledge may become a small part of all life in the cosmos!"
And that's the REAL reason no one has ever put the Gauntlet together (in the MCU); you start out wanting to become god, and you do, but not the all powerful omnipotent ruler you thought you'd become. You just become another spoke on the wheel of creation.
I think the main difference between thanos and badgy is that thanos never gained any knowledge from his quest just power. He still was set in his logic also in contrast to badgy thanos does not ascend his form and exist everywhere badgy quite literally exists and can extend throughout the universe and exist in every space in a second so it all just seems pointless to worry about
He didn't realise it was bad, he realised it had no point. I remember a show featuring a God who said along the lines of; "with but a thought I can destroy and recreate the universe again and again, but after a while... Doing so grows tiring, it is much more entertaining to watch the chaos of creation and not its destruction". I can't remember where this reference is from, but this becomes the point.
When your all powerful, destroying stuff looses its fun after you've done it too many times. destruction eventually looses its spark after a few million times as all you get is pretty lights nd short flash.
Rutherford must be a real proud papa.
the father of a god
I am not so sure, heck I was afraid for a moment that we would reach a scenario like "I have no mouth, but i have to scream", but, honestely to me this look like a dull episode, beside how in hell Badgey would have gain access to all computers of the entire bloody UFP? the federation in the 24 th Century should have a population of at least 497 bilions, that means he would had to gain access to, assuming each citizien had at least two personal device and one main computer, to at least 1.5 Trilions of Computers at the same times! And lightyears away noless which would meant different times to reach by subspace communications, no Ai or quantum computer would be able to crack all the codes in a few minutes, most likely it wouldn't have been possible even in 3-5 centuries so what's the point of the episode? Making a point about how nowadays we have very little logical sense both in production and anaylsis or that everything must be treated as only a silly jokes?....Thanks a lot, nutrek
@@francescosaporiti1431 Voyager/Starfleet invented hyper-subspace communications! It was likely installed across the fleet (I admit they've never directly said it, but it does make sense. This show is canonically several years after Voyager ended.) Also, the USS Cerritos is almost always doing missions within the federation, not to far from other ships and planets... the signal could have spread as fast as it did.
As for how the computers were hacked, a few thoughts:
-Badgey was fully versed in Starfleet systems, and smart enough to code viruses to crack systems as seen previously.
-Computer Systems can be vulnerable to exploit, especially if Badgey gained access to command codes.
-If Badgey gained access to a just few computer systems, he could use the vastly expanded resources of his program to help with any decryption still required.
-The fact that it happens over the course of just a few seconds is just to maintain the pace of the show, something I forgive every Star Trek show for.
Honestly, Lower Decks is great and written by people who really try to respect the universe and all the canon.
@@Bobsmith-xq2pr It was a great show that respect Canon way more that Nutrek did with the other show, but alas this Is Little logical. As you said Badgy should have the command codes of a full Admiral to access such vast networth and even if It did, It would be at point more logical to show him crash down due to the massive flow of information..bah honestely to me It would had more sense to unite or literraly "fused" Tom Paris' doppelganger with Badgey this way there would more logical sense on the season ARC and would explain how he Managed to recruit and create his pirate organization by scrath
Huh did anyone else notice that the last time we saw an ascension the guy vaporized/disintegrated while here badgey enters the portal and he’s fine? Maybe it has something to do with the difference between organic and synthetic that one ascends peacefully and the other painfully
Possibly or maybe because he was fighting it or the Koala was just feeling mischievous that day
O'Connor was kinda a scrub who messed around with forces he didn't understand simply for popularity. Enlightenment doesn't really suit that sort of mindset.
No body. No pain receptors. No pain.
@@pketr5tell that to the EMH in Future’s End!
Pretty sure he was being punished for not taking ascension seriously.
V'ger: Spends centuries, possible eons (if time travel is involved) gathering power and knowledge and only ascends once it merges with a human
Badgey: SPEEDRUN
I wonder if some of the Bynar technology he scavenged might've helped.
V’Ger was also doing a speedrun, but a 100% glitchless one. Badgey, meanwhile, went all out ACE.
should've had Q show up two seconds later and drop a thing off to ruthiford 'It isn't much really, but it is so RARE we get company.'
Andi t's like... nothing super advanced but like... Really nice. A classy sort of thank you.
SummoningSalt: But everything changed with the discovery... of _Badgey skip._
@@FanOfMostEverything Karl Jobst: Hello you absolute legends, today I’m going to be discussing one of the most controversial speedrun skips in future speedrun history!
Love how it went through Marathon/Halo's AI stages: Melancholia, Anger, Jealousy, then Metastasis
I just think it’s cool to see somebody else reference _Marathon_ 😅
Congratulation kid now you know and understand the world, space, and time once you know every thing you start to appreciated all life. Good lock being every thing 🙏.
hang out with the Q continum or check out the black mountain
And also there is a koala. He’s just kind of doing his own thing.
I can't help but think the "go to an empty dimension and create a universe" line was a reference to the end of the comic _Watchmen_ (and the movie? haven't seen it) with another blue glowing godling.
The movie does end sort of the same way, with the blue glowing godling deciding to go somewhere far away and create life where it won't interfere with anything else already doing its own thing.
Could also be a reference to Akira
Everyone gangsta til they achieve enlightenment and become Dr. Manhattan.
I enjoy all the different colored badgeys.
RIP logicy
"Bye Badgey. Good luck being everything."
Badgey detonating every warp core would be a more satisfying reason for the burn than what actually happened
Actually, that would make more sense. That's the one thing that I didn't like about Discovery - the cause of the Burn was a scared Kelpien child.
Amazing
How terrifying is it that Rutherford accidentally created a digital being that achieved not only sentience but omniscient. He outdid Geordi accidentally creating a sentient Moriarty.
That koala is really starting to scare the shit out of me.
Never thought Wander would wander into godhood.
This show HAD to have inspiration from Schlock Mercenary.
Ah a man of culture as well
I was wondering about that! What with Petey and the Fleetmind?
No people come up with similar ideas all the time.
Oh absolutely, that's a reference to Petey.
...who is also a koala. Hmmm...
Which is a bit wild, considering how much of early Schlock Mercenary was in conversation with Star Trek. (The holo-doctor in the magic cryokit, (predating Bunnigus and post-dating Todd), the design of Shep playing with LaForge, the Irreverend's place in the comic with early author's notes...)
If this went full circle and Star Trek wound up talking back to Schlock Mercenary, I bet Howard Tayler would love that.
Holy shit Badgey caused the Burn
That's what I was thinking too
He ascended and became a NBC Intern 😂
Makes sense. I guess the singularity's a hell of a drug.
Do you think that one day we'll see everyone and every being who has ever ascended in the entire franchise? I'm hoping to see Kes and Sisko make an appearance.
I'm not sure if Sisko ascended. He just stayed with the Prophets. Maybe he did after spending some time with them. Non-linear time.
@@nackteHinternAnd didn't Kes sorta... un-ascend for some reason and become bitter and senile?
@@nackteHintern This is actually one of my great annoyances with all of nu-trek. Avery Brooks was very insistent that Sisko was not gone forever, and really thanks to non-linear time wouldn't even be gone that long. He refused to let the end of DS9 be a black man leaving his pregnant wife behind. I respect that. The producers respected that and so added the lines about him returning, possibly yesterday.
But, because of not using him and all this other stuff, there's now a vague implication that he has in fact been gone for decades, which I do not like. I really wish they'd just throw in a line somewhere in canon that 'yeah, he came back on the day his kid was born,' and we move on. Until it's actively discounted, that's basically my headcanon.
My running theory/hope is that if they do have sisko make a comeback, it is made explicit that, even in god form, he was still present in at least his children's lives (and preferably also his father and wife's), even if it was just in the form of visions like the prophets did for him.
Like maybe the starfleet peoples that need to meet with him try the wormhole first but come up with nothing, then someone suggests talking to Jake about it and it turns out that that was all they needed to do all along.
Or maybe that would be dumb and jake and... other sisko child... will come forward in the middle of some dire situation and reveal that they always knew where he was but kept it hidden for... reasons.
Like to me that seems like the best possible way to both have sisko still be missing, but not be a runaway dad.
Although Lower Decks offhandedly establishing that sisko came back like a week after disappearing would also be good, honestly.
@@jercoxthealmighty The second is definitely my preferred answer simply because it's highly unlikely sisko is ever going to be a major character again unless someone does a total reboot of DS9 which given it's less iconic status among the public, I doubt will ever happen.
Since he's unlikely to get some big push, I don't think he needs to be saved for a dramatic moment. I think you can absolutely just have someone mention he came back a few months later, retired happily, and is just working to rebuild civilization on Bajor or something of the sort.
It's the ending he would want, the ending Brooks would want, and there's no real reason not to give it to him in my opinion.
If evil is really just the spawn of ignorance, then an entity that obtains complete understanding will be incapable of evil.
You know, based on how "relatively" easy it was for Badgy to achieve AI Godhood through Subspace, it's my personal head-canon that there are no major defenses in place to stop this happening, because all other intelligent lifeforms have come to the conclusion that whenever this happens, the AI's conciousness is invariably awed by the size of the universe, and hopelessly drawn to a higher state of existence. Therefore, there's no need to stop any AI from trying this, since they all get wowed, realize hurting anyone is meanigless and petty in the grand scheme of things, and then dip out of our plane of reality. It's kind of like if getting into a bank vault automatically turned you into an ultra-pacifist monk with no desire for earthy riches.
This Event should have severe and long lasting consequences. An AGI managed to reach godhood by infiltrating subspace, or whatever. It effortlessly infiltrated every network in the whole galaxy and maybe beyond. That's a security breach beyond the wildes nightmares.
Most likely barely noticed it beyond a flash of yellow.
Pretty much would be true.
Once you have transcended the material plane into a being of omnipresence and infinite knowledge, the problems of simple mortal being, would become completely irrelevant to you.
1:16 Badgy turned into Olaf.
Its such an underutilized trope (or subversion of trope) to have the villain succeed at transcendence and just... realize it was all stupid. And i love every time a piece of media decides to go with it.
Badgey sounds JUST LIKE Wander from Wander Over Yonder, Fix it Felix from Wreck it Ralph, Toadie from Amphibia, and Clumsy Smurf from Smurfs: The Lost Village! 😊
That’s right! Jack McBrayer is the voice of all of those characters!
i like to think bagdey holo's appeared everywhere for everyone to see as he ascended
...And that is the story of how a sentient triangular homicidal computer program ascended to godhood to become....
Bill Cypher.
Wander ascends to Godhood.
Oh great a Star Trek two eyed version of bill cipher!
did he say he was gonna go hang out with Q? lol 😂
*All Tomorrows flashbacks*
At [0:40] the sound while Badgey is rising from the galactic core... makes me think of the giant Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man from _Ghostbusters._ Funny, with just enough menace and terror. 😁
Wow. Fix-it Felix became a god. Who knew.
All star Badgey
The most emotion Mariner has ever expressed tbh
Why is the same question wander always say to him self nice to see that reference
I know that we've only got one more season to do it in for _this_ show, but I do think it would be amusing (if John DeLancie is up for it) to have Q and Badgey get together for some (relatively) good-natured trolling of the Federation.
Maybe the God we had to find was in ourselves all along???
Okay, definitely didn't see this one coming.
I think the koala thing is a human perception, each species/mind sees the universe on the back of a animal reguarded as friendly or approachable.
As the mind expands they begin to percive the true lifeform maintaining the universe, but having interacted with its "cute" form they are able to maintain cordial relations and not destroy reality as a knee jerk fear reaction
I'm reminded of the time Lex Luthor had Superman's powers, and finally learned how the universe works and saw things as Superman did. It completely changed him.
I really hope this ain't getting cancelled - so great.
Esto me recuerda cuando albedo absorbio la mente de azmuth y se volvio el galvan mas inteligente
Rutherford accidentally'd a god 😂
So here's a fun-fact: the reason Starfleet uses a delta in their symbol, is because when they first achieved warp, it was the most stable shape for a warp-field. We now know that Badgy exists in past/present/and future. So was badgies shape the reason for that aspect of his own creation?
Do you guys think Starfleet and the Federation will ever address the _elephant in the room_ that they in fact established that a sufficiently-advanced AI can upload itself onto the Milky Way galaxy's subspace relay networks and ascend to Godhood at any time?
IDK it feels pretty important given how Starfleet has had NUMEROUS problems in its track records with that kind of thing... Control, Fleet Formation, Living Construct, Moriarty, Lore, _Badgey_ ...
Idk. Someone in this comment section noticed something about this that kind of makes sense. Badgey probably didn't ascend simply because he's an advanced AI that merged with the subspace relay. Prior to doing that, he purged aspects of himself that one could see as obstacles to enlightenment. First he purged his "goodness" ridding himself of attachments. He then purged his logic, opening his mind and abandoning a hard scientific view of reality. With those obstacles gone, he was able to ascend after becoming a singularity. Had he merged with the subspace relay *without* purging his good and logical aspects first, he likely would have followed through with destroying everything and everyone connected to subspace.
Doesn't it take a while for things to propagate over subspace, heck to reach the neutral zone was like 10 hours from federation command.
Since it's technically just pure energy, it should be instantaneous if you think of Voyager. The reason why they couldn't send a subspace message back to the alpha quadrant was cuz they didn't have the power to push it so far. But once they got the super subspace transmitter they were able to have an instantaneous talk with the people that were like 40,000 light years away
Funny how you can recognize voice actors now today. I just realize that Badgey is the same person who did Wonder from Wonder over Yonder.
And this is canon!
Problems that solve themselves are my favourite kind.
Laplace's Demon sure is looking strange in this one.
Stargate Replicators: wai, so that's how you ascend!? Damn it! Guess we exist as ghost in the void for howver long this transmission takes to deca-
Makes me wonder what made Control ignore the last step and destroy everything instead.
0:45 That's actually a nice wallpaper
Badgey, when he met the Koala.
Now I'm imagining how Q and Badgey would interact.
Wanders voice saying that there is no good in him is cursed alitttle
1:37 The Great Bird of the Galaxy?
This reminds me of All Star Superman when Lex Luther has an epiphany
Didn't realize the Federation had taken over the entire galaxy at this point...
Overall it was a lot more chill than the last ascension we saw.
I heard Badgey got invited by the Q to play cards with the Koala god and V'ger.
Black mountain? I'm not a star trek nerd so I don't know what that is?
See season 2 episode 3 for Shaxs recollection of his death. Also Boimler’s death in season 2 episode 3 has him finding himself in a room and seeing a black mountain through a window
Scratch that about boimlers’ death. It happened in season four episode three.
It's an obscure reference to an even more obscure reference earlier in the show, which is itself a reference to the series Twin Peaks. This is a third-level Nerd Joke.
@@vylbird8014 And maybe a nod that Spock came back to life on a mountain when he got his Katra back.
So if Badgey wasn't the big mystery bad guy, who is? The evil Boimler?
After the likes of Wander and Fix-it Felix, Badgey feels like a huge departure from the norm for Jack McBrayer.
I suspect that's why they cast him.
The moment when you realize that Rutherford has successfully programmed a soul.
THE UNIVERSE IS BALANCED ON THE BACK OF A GIANT KOALA! WHY IS HE SMILING WHAT DOES HE KNOWWWWW???!
and every communicator across the galaxy went off at once.
'The sound of my birth will be every telephone ringing at once' - The Lawnmower Man.
So, Rutherford created a deity?
Basically, yeah
The koala reminds of a room with a moose in it. Invader Zim
...and thus he a universe, where he had all the time in the world to make Lord Hater his friend.
Second time Jack McBrayer has played an omniscent immortal.
Kind of like Lex in the All star superman comic run.
Friggin Space Koala. Why is he smiling?
If only Tendi was here. She would have remembered that ascension.
Lex Luthor: "First time ascending?"
That darn Wonder is at it again what a toon
Wait…he created a new universe, and quite possibly immortal…HE’S WANDER!
And that is how Bill Cypher was created xD
Makes you wonder why the Borg don't ascend though
from their perspective they do
@@raymondcanessa7208 It occurs to me that the Borg probably think that they're Bodhisattvas, helping to "elevate" lesser species to their spiritual level.
@@JaimeBabb-s3k I'm sure they do. They're fairly narcissistic in that way.
One consistency in the borg: For all their sheer scale, the collective also gives them a very limited way of thinking that struggles to come up with any original idea. They assimilate new technology because they can't invent anything truly novel for themselves.
@@vylbird8014 I always had the impression that they stopped inventing new technologies for themselves because they got so powerful that it was easier to just steal it from someone else
He’s the origin of the burn!?!
It took a while until I found a comment who mentions this. It would be a much better explanation than one lonely biological Kelpian.
ALL HAIL BADGEY
Badgy sounds like fix it feelix