The Porsche 911 isn’t as exciting as you think - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 2
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- Опубликовано: 5 ноя 2019
- Every classic-car event is overrun with air-cooled Porsche 911s. There are reasons why - the 911 is great to drive, robust, and reliable - but should misery be part of the old-car ownership experience? Is buying an aircooled 911 the obvious choice, or is it the lazy one?
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The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled 25-minute conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on RUclips alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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The only problem with watching this show is I want to join in the conversation and just end up yelling at my iPad.
I don't see that as a problem at all. Just hit "VIDEO" and "RECORD" first. And then email it to us. :)
LMAO!!
Jason’s reply. Lol
I'm a simple man. I see Jason Camisa, I click like.
I am the simple man too
He drives a Scirocco. Automatic thumbs-up.
@@BrakRulesAll Haha, not any Scirocco, but a very special one. And that BMW wagon. Jesus.
Ditto!
simple
I'm calling -Papa Porsche- Chris Harris on you, Mr Cammisa
I'm not afraid of him.
This show is quickly becoming the high light of my day when I get the notification of a new episode! Love it.
Woot, thank you!
What I find odd is the amount of time spent on what other people think of you when you show up to an (fill in the blank-car show/cars and coffee etc...) event in a Porsche. As an all around car guy (focused on many different car genres) I hardly ever attend these events. I don't care what other people think is cool, I care about what I like and what I think is cool. You shouldn't buy cars to impress other people-if that is your focus, then I'd say you aren't a "pure/real" car guy. I could care less if the Prius driver turns their nose up at me-or anyone else when you pull up beside them in a BBC. No matter how you slice it, it's someone else's opinion that you can easily choose not to care about. Drive your pacer. Drive your civic. Drive your friggin Porsche and nevermind what the other douche bags you don't know or care about think. Join the genuine car community and stop caring about investments; and, for the love of God- stop buying cars for status.
Just my 2 cents. I've been wrong before...
You're not wrong this time.
,Naaa, you're not wrong at all....
JasonCammisa still wrong. We see this all the time but a response to a point nobody is making. Why not choose something you like that others can enjoy also? We do this w/ everything from the clothes we wear to the words we choose. Something we like that doesnt make us look like assholes 😉😂
@@tcolley Sure, but if people want to say something (be it good or bad) about what clothes you have on or what shoes you're wearing, that's their choice to speak. You didn't purely do it for others to think of you. If there are people that enjoy your presence in the way you are, then I say it's all jolly good. If there's those that have a few knits to pick, then that's their problem and ignorance affecting your train of thought and confidence. Driving a 911 doesn't make you look like an asshole. If your labeled that by someone, then that's just pure ignorance from the other party.
@Joshua Parriott … +1.. Well said. Enjoy whatever turns you on …
Man, I always say drive what YOU love. Cars are super subjective. Damn what someone says under their breath at the show. Your car is what you like. Your experience behind the wheel is yours. To me the ultimate douche thing to do is spend your money on a car YOU DON’T LIKE.
Flat6King Amen to that
Spend your money on someting you don't like is the definition of status lol
You never owned an Alfa did you ?
My first episode, though I'm familiar with Jason and his style, so no surprises there. Derek I don't know about, but I think he 'won' this round because more of what he said made sense and was on-point. I am a real-live, old, carmudgeon. I remember when, at least in America, an air-cooled 911 WAS a weird and esoteric choice. It was totally apart from mainstream car design, and we sort of understood it to be some kind of hot-rod beetle (which wasn't so far off, actually). If we had not been relatively familiar with Beetles (not everyone knew much about those, either), I'm not at all sure that 911s would have become icons in America. Maybe. Eh, I don't know.
I've never owned either, but I have driven both, including an air-cooled 911 Turbo. I once spun a Beetle wildly. Both Beetles and old 911s include that fear factor as standard equipment, free of charge. With modern electronic nannies, the behavior of any car can be perfected. So, oddly, a rear-engine 911 now makes more sense than ever as a performance platform. You get the advantages of extreme rearward weight bias (forward traction, excellent braking) without the downsides (initial understeer, instability on the limit). Just proves that, if you live long enough, you'll see the darnedest things come to pass.
I love my watercooled 997S, but if I were to buy a classic car, it would not be a 911; I'd take a Datsun 240Z, Alfa Giulia Sprint, or... that Lancia Delta Integrale in the background!
Nice call...I got myself a BMW Z4 M Coupe: more affordable and a little rarer.
"Maybe roadside breakdowns are the stuff stories are made of."
Can confirm this is true. I have dozens of hilarious stories of how my 220,000km 1000buck Kei car spontaneously "failed to proceed" on various poorly planned and executed road trips.
My friends have named him Stoppy (for his flawless track record of unreliability) and are now chipping in to help keep him on the road because of all the great memories he generated for them.
the 911 is the finest car in my mind... I just ordered the latest 992... I can't wait to get it!
I understand his point, but for the money, what other cars offer the union of performance and build quality?
“I’ve always loved Porsche” **falls alseep*
Hell yes. Been waiting to see what you do after leaving MT... And it turns out, you don't need them at all. If anything, you're more entertaining without whatever rules they had constraining you.
Subscribed, and I look forward to seeing where you take this channel. The slightly more edgier you that you've shown on here -- don't stop, roll with it. Fuck yeah.
Hearing the 1st-gen Insight get mentioned made me very happy. Fantastic car. To this day it's Honda's best-engineered car. The gears in the transmission are drilled to save weight. The chassis was stiffer than the NSX. It gets an honest 70mpg with OR WITHOUT the hybrid system. It's the GT3 of fuel economy.
Love this Channel and podcast as well as you two!!! Awesome points were made on both sides, respectively...
Yeah, 911s are sensible choices to those that don't want to risk it. However, the 911 has that charm that lies in with its Flat 6 powertrain and awesome driving dynamics and experience overall. From the classic 964s to the present 992s, the design has not only been carried over beautifully, but it still dances with all that emotion. The everyday folks at the car scene won't understand the 911 fully, but it's when you're behind the wheel of one, that you'll know it'll make you giggle like a kid at a dream toy store, all while blending in. Porsches aren't known to be flashy like Lamborghini's since day 1. As for originality, it can't be any more original with a rear engine, RWD setup. Now, I'll agree that yeah it would be kind of weird seeing 911s be as common as priuses and whatnot around car meets on the 50th anniversary of the model, but it just that the 911 has the cult following like how Classic VWs, Fiats, Wranglers, Vettes, etc. have
I'm glad Jason did this. I like it a lot. I really dig it.
This is amazing lol I have never liked any show on RUclips car related that wasn’t a in car review. You have made the first and only car related show on RUclips that don’t suck show is great hopefully it keeps going and we do still need and love your in car reviews
Thankful for this show! Keep up the fun videos!
Spot on. I went to a youngtimer meetup last week, there was a 968 and a 993, went past them without a second glance. On the other hand, I will probably never stop drooling at the sight (and sound) of a 930, especially turbo with that huuuuuuge wing and sideskirt protectors.
Oh, and I saw a Pagode last summer on my 10-minute stroll from work. Not the first time. And I don't live in Hollywood (to say the least).
First time I’ve ever subscribed and turned on the notifications for a channel, only for Adam Sandler!
WOOHOO! Thank you. Love you, mean it, #DiscountSandler
So much truth! And Derek Tam - Hyphen - Scott works! Intelligent and sarcastic conversation with Adam Sandler is what we are all here for!
Jasons impressions of engine noices are fantastic!
I don't get the 'buying to impress other people' line of thought.
I have a 4 door 2011 M3 and people keep telling me I should have bought the coupe because it gets more girls.
Man... I bought the car for me. I get all the driving pleasure + practicality.
I love the ‘Porsche, Excellence Was Expected’ book visible on the bookshelf during this conversation.
I absolutely loved my 8 year 911 ownership experience. The car was bought to be driven hard, not to impress anybody. A GT3 body kit and a modified suspension (Eibach swaybars, KW V3 coilovers) made the experience even better. I used to laugh at people at the “Cars & Coffee” meets who just wanted to stand around and talk about cars. Get out and drive the thing the way it was meant to be driven (yes, even in the rain).
Loved the whole conversation like the last one.
Great conversation. I have had 11 porsches. From trashy 944 to 991. 964 is my fav. Oldscool feeling without annoying anyone. Thats the thing😊
911's are the camry of performance cars. But damn are they performers :)
ISSIMI is "Pure Genius Format..."
Thank you!!
I think the two things Jason said of 911 can be both correct: shows incredible lack of originality AND is really good.
Audi 200 Avant quattro gets a mention 😍 20vT I-5 love forever 🙌
Oh come on!! That panigale is sitting completely ignored in the background. I wanna hear what you guys have to say about a great driving, completely impractical car vs riding a bonkers, completely impractical bike like that!
Im im dereks side on this one. I couldnt care less about what someone thinks, especially driving a car that you like and enjoy. You can turn your 911 into anything
"I ain't got the money", that about hit the nail on the head for me. Yes resources are limited at the moment, but I am working very hard to change that. It's so nice to have found a channel that has great car related content with Jason again, and I am binge watching today. As soon as my hard work pays off I will be reaching out to ISSIMI. You guys are awesome.
I’ve owned 170 cars (most sub $5000 cars that I fixed and flipped) and the 996 & SC are in the top 5. The BMW F30 (perfectly reliable, fast, comfortable, good looking), Land Rover s2a (restored with my dad and a gas to drive and work on), and ‘71 mini (no brakes at all when I bought it, wheel fell off on the freeway, now restored and a blast to drive) are the rest of the top five. The 996 is my daily beater car. The SC is just wonderful to drive.
The SC is such a “done” car I refuse to spend any time on the exterior of the car. Why bother with making it “perfect” when they are all trying to be perfect and thus boring. Instead I make it run great and focus on driving it so I can smile. Because it drives so well.
I can listen to Jason talk about cars all day 😁
Great show!
... and put some thoughts - Do I really need the classic experience of 964 or 996 is the right choice for simple joy of driving despite all the negatives about it's look.
Nice! Really nice chat you have!
They’re not drinking coffee... lol neither am I.
SO excited to watch this
Childhood dream ruined. Still... Love this show| Thanks guys!
Now that you've listened here's the truth: they're epic cars. If you can have only one do-it-all car, you can't beat a 911. :) Dream resurrected!
@@JasonCammisa ahaha! Thank you Jason! Never driven one, so I will trust your judgement!
I finally bought a Miata last year. At least half my friends and family describe it as a mid life crisis car. But I knew it would drive better than all of my usual shit boxes and it just does. I kept a Forester for carrying more people and stuff. That Miata will take years to master and get right and it will be fun all the way. From there, right now it's an Elise or a 911. Because they're awesome. Without ditching the Miata - I don't think you need ever get rid of one of them. A properly prepared, light, air cooled 911 ... I know they're awesome to drive. Why are you carrying one about this?
I don’t have a sports car yet but as a watch collector, I understand what you’re describing here. The watch equivalent to Porsche is probably Rolex. It’s reliable and obvious, and for many, that’s great.
why own a classic car? remisce/relive your youth, have something you dreamed of but couldn't have back in the day. Fun to drive? Fun to show off? (ego?) Join a club (like owning a harley). Investment perhaps?
I had a VW bug...isn't the air cooled porsche the ultimate iteration of that? A cayman is tempting, perhaps more so. I don't see either as 'practical'.
Too many buy these 'classics' and don't use, drive them. Why? Jay leno has way too many cars, but he USES them, drives them!! I give him big props for that.
I met a porsche 911 driver backin the late 80s, asked her how she liked the car. She said it sucked - every cop would follow here and she ended up never using the car as it was capable of being used.
Awesomely fun! I am seriously considering using your videos to teach intricacies of the daily spoken English language to my students who can handle the car topics. ....f..cking hilarious. I AM SERIOUSLY ADDICTED.
This podcast is brill-ee-ant!!!
Lack of originality is a great description. However, my favorite 911 is the SC. Great steering, great sound and lively chassis.
agree with the 996 > 993 comment adjusted for price. The 75-ish (?) 911 I drove was completely underwhelming. Felt like a bug with 10x the powertrain.
Exactly why I sold mine.....911 was my dream car since I was 10.
Built a backdate 79 with a 3.2 swap, drove it for 1 year and was never impressed, looked and sounded the business but never never REALLY liked it. Sold it for great money and went back to my first loves......A1 77 Rabbit and 90 Miata. Now those are fun cars!!!
And now I have shit to watch during my "lunch" break. Thanks Jason. Glad to see you back on youtube.
confident enough to drive a miata ;D
“Kissing a fool” by the greatest artist who has ever lived, George Michael! You just jumped to the very front of the line in my book Jason! Love it!
All it took was for me to screetch out that song? (It's a mother to sing.) Thank you! :)
That’s why nobody ever does covers of his songs. Just ask Chris Martin and Adele ; ) His voice and lyrics were pure magic. Thanks for sharing it and love your new channel. Please keep’em coming! Would love to know your take on Mclarens. Seems as though Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche snobs don’t know what they’re missing. Just drive a 675LT and see for yourself.
Oh, I get it. You were being sarcastic. Had me going for a few seconds.
A few years ago when 996s and 997s could be had in a decent example for $25-40k were really the golden years. If the engine scored, IMS failed, sell it for scrap and get another one. That’s no longer the case when even the most basic 997 is going for $40k. Nowadays if you want reliable, relatively cheap Porsche that won’t make people think you’re a db, you get a 987 boxster or cayman.
*so the best 911 is a GTV6 with a short gear ratio*
I died
Jason did an awesome video review of the 1st gen GT4. This is the car that could have propelled Porsche into relevancy in the 21st Century, but instead, they geared it ridiculously high so as not to compete with the holy grail, 911 cash cow. Same now with the 718 GT4.
Why do you say that about the new GT4, how do you know
Buy it throw in a GT3 4.0 flat six from 991.2 that crashed and laugh. Problem is that will cost for more than the GT3
If you only have one fun weekend car for a classic a 911 is a great choice as it let's you play and not break. If you have more then one get something else cause you can have a modern fun car and then a crazy classic that breaks and gives you experiences from all spectrums.
Is some of this California-specific? And maybe especially SF- and/or LA-specific. Not an annoying number of 911s out here on the East Coast.
Everyone shows up to car events in a 911 because all the Alfa Romeo and Brittish car drivers broke down before they could get there.
I love my 65 Corvair turbo. All the air-cooled, rear engine fun I want and NO vinegar. at 1/10 the price, of a 911, I was sold!
A big part of the excitement is the fact that everything is mechanically backwards from most other cars.The air-cooled 911 is a very strange combination of esoteric parts that happens to assemble into an all around great-performing package. Take a deeper look at any sub-component and you will see how strange it is. The torsion bar suspension is strange, the pedals are strange, the big wing is strange, the flat air-cooled dry-sump engine with the huge fan is strange.
podcast not available on pocketcasts or itunes :(
We're waiting for approval on Apple/iTunes... but hopefully it'll be quick. Meantime, it's available on Soundcloud, Google, and Spotify. (Links in description above.)
JasonCammisa can’t wait!
But what if you just really love the looks, sounds and feel of a classic air cooled 911. Its been a dream car of mine since a kid.
Ive owned nothing but classic my entire life. And still have a fondness for them.
Lol anyone that spends 50k-100k on a classic 911 is already a different sort of person. That would not be the choice of 99% of car enthusiasts. You guys are splitting hairs over the most popular choice of the 1% who are already on the fringe of car enthusiasts. We get it. You are in the 1% of the 1% who go in a different direction. But I still enjoyed the discussion. 🙂
Totally agree- my 911 is for me only !!
You will need to mic the button if you're going to use it. Or add in the sounds in post at the very least
Porsche hooked me into cars 20 years ago, and even though I'm broadly brand-neutral as an enthusiast nowadays, various Porsches from the 60s through the 00s continue to dominate my "dream car" list. I NEVER EVER wanted one to impress someone else. I NEVER wanted one for the status. I always recognized them as quality, robust, high-performing, highly-engineered machines that were often beautiful and, failing that, almost always distinct and uniquely packaged. The buyers who have flocked to Porsche, and more and more of the cars they're making, have been turning me off the brand for the last 5-10 years.
Ok, so what cars exactly have turned you off the brand? More so, what is the problem with the buyers?
@@rahulmandala4930 rich douches that think their flatulence in the driver's seat raises the value of the car daily.
Buying a 911 isn't weird.
I do like 911’s and here in Canada, Toronto especially, they’re not that common.
I don't really "have friends" or enjoy "being around car people" so I think the 997 C2S cab might be perfect for me.
you need taller chairs
Can't we just have a shorter table?
Are u guys doing an episode on pininfarnina battista...coz I see one in the background
I’ve never owned an old air chilled 911. I do like out cornering them in my 1968 Barracuda and than pulling away with my 340…..
Just when I was about to close a deal on a 996, Camisa appeared and slapped me in the face.
lol
Hey man if you like how it drives then don’t let anyone tell you what to think.
ToxicHorsePucky word, longing for the opportunity
I traded my 911SC and an AH 3000 for a Dino GT4, boy do I miss the 3000
Some people like to drive 'sh*t cars as long as they are unique and rare. I need cars I can daily or at least drive without worrying about every mile.
Jason being my favorite car comedian and then there's Derek. This fine sexy suave hunk of a man. Instantly satisfied.
What does Carmudgeon mean?
This is why I have an AMG Convertible
I prefer the ORIGINAL air cooled, rear engined flat six. And Corvairs are still reasonably priced
the biggest problem with the core of their arguments is they can't separate between ownership of the car, what it means to them personally and the perception of owning a 911 to everyone else. its almost like they are two hipsters, car hipsters :D personally i think that's the wrong way to think about it, as at the end of the day they are putting the weight of their decision on what others think rather than forming their own unbiased opinion. 'A sunset is special even though the barrier to entry is a fine day, and the want to leave the confines of their house to view it.'
Guess its up to the individual to determine for themselves if the definition of something special means it has to be uncommon or rare.
Wait, wait. This is a car that some people aspire to their entire lives and never hope to be able to afford. Perhaps one day they are lucky and have inheritance or save frantically to the detriment of everything else and buy a Carrera, are super proud, and they go to a car meet and people aren't bothered just because it's NOT a Ferrari or Alfa Romeo? Wow. Talk about not living in the real world!
Of course Jason is right
If you worry about what people think when you are driving your car, you need some help!
I dunno i have no desire to own an older 911. I do enjoy hearing your conversation. I ordered a 992, waiting for it to be built. Im a guy w/ no kids and will never have kids. I have tricks. I own motos and track them so i get the sound from that. Im not a pretentious ass either even tho i own a Ducati and soon to have Porsche. Thats a shocker but i dont care if you show up in CBR300 or Elantra Sport. If i do buy a true classic id shoot for a sweet W124.
11:00 - "You could take like a Ford T. . ." Were you going to say Taurus? You can make a good Ford Taurus.
Nope tempo
Y'all are just jaded.
The only argument I have for this conversation can be summed up in one word.... Singer.
its so funny cause ive seen exactly one 911 in my life
911 is the Camry of Supercars
Each of your episode is even better that the previous one ! 😂🤘🏻
keep on bullshitting guys
......I'd get a 928...almost bought a couple back then, but because they were a MANUAL......I got outbid... S4, GT....
Can you guys talk about a Datsun 240Z with triple Weber’s
Shhh! Please don't increase the price of 996s...
To fucking late
Anyone know the story on the black Porsche Boxster (I think) with the “RR” on the rear fender in the background?
david clardy that’s funny, the whole time I thought that was a McLaren
It's a VUHL 05RR 😉
WordToMomsYo - You were closer than I was :-). That VUHL looks awesome!
@@davidclardy9745 👍
So what are some fun weird cars we can pick up for cheap now that you would recommend? Seriously I have a 997 GT3 now, I had an e46 m3, but I still dream about my old 91 Sentra SER beater that I drove the crap out of in HS and college
*sssnnnnnnffffffffff* LET'S GO FUCKIN' HAVE SOME FUN!
I know I'm late to the party here, but holy crap I nearly spit coffee all over my cat!
So at the end of the day, is an air-cooled beat up 911 still a must-have atleast once in a lifetime? Just to pop the cherry maybe?
You are right about going safe for most new PORSCHE owners 🤦🏻♂️ .... but it is not for the ones who came before 993s ...... specially if you could buy a new one.
58 year old DAV prick shopping for a Targa here...for me and just me.
I have about 7 911s on gtsport and the aircooled 83 turbo is more fun to drive than my gt3rs. I know theres nothing like the real thing but its my experience
Once a classic car becomes very expensive you're too scared to enjoy it.
Stock 964s are definitely boring and 993 gearing is horribly tall. You guys nailed it! Modded 964s rule!
Hearing these to talk about Porsche as if it were a bus ticket anyone can afford. Yet, I heard Jason saying he can't afford $90K cars...
So Porsche is Toyota/Lexus of premium cars?