I'm sure you know this, but just in case that you don't, you don't need Advantage to use Sneak Attack. That is one way to do it and having advantage is clearly always ideal, but the other method is against an enemy that is Threatened. Enemy's get threatened when an Ally is within melee range of them and holding a melee weapon. It's a good idea to set your reactions so that it prompts you to use Sneak Attack whenever you make an attack roll that would allow Sneak Attack. That way you don't always need to specifically use Sneak Attack with your main attack because you can also proc it with an offhand attack as well. If you're attacking more than once in a round it can be a great idea to wait to use Sneak Attack until you've attacked twice to see if the second hit is a Crit that way you can proc Sneak Attack (Critical).
I had no idea you could set your preferences like that, genius. I have found (and Im not 100% sure this is the case) but tactician seems to be less forgiving on what's considered an advantage
Just finished the game with two assassins and I can confirm my brain is now permamently wired to try and sneak attack/suprise everybody. My personal favorite was the "Dorito of Doom" behind Gortash where you can misty step without alerting him. ...man I spent too much time on ambushes.
By the time I got to Gortash my Assassin Duergar Dark Urge could turn any battle into a meme since I could disengage thanks to invis either from the Deathstalker Mantle or from a Bloodlust Elixir additional action and repeat ad nauseam Poor Gortash ended up staring opposite of where he's usually looking so I surprised him with the entire party
The ring Bernard gives, you need to wear it and it will reveal a secret button at the top that when pressed teleport you in the basement of the Tower, there you can find one of the best Staff early on, giving Bless that give an extra 1d4 to Spell attack, not great on Rogue but really useful for Warlock and Ray of Frost Wizard.
In the beta rogue was unstoppable because if your stealth was good enough you could hide just about anywhere. You would kill entire rooms of enemies with just one rogue. But it trivialized everything.
I was able to clear Yurgir room in honor mode using my ranger/rogue with only 9hp, lol. At level 9 with the right gears, it remain hidden against detect presence right in front. It was very slow though. The thing is there are boss fights that you can't use this tactic.
Ranger one of the weakest classes? Try a full beast master party with familiars, give them aid and pass without a trace. Or get gloomstalker and melt your enemies round 1. Everyone stealths as bonus action, combat ends, restart with dread ambusher. Need LoS block? Fog cloud. Advantage from stealth, sharp shooter and dread ambusher is a crazy combo. And I hope you know about camp casting🤷♂️sadly you killed Gale who would be the ultimate warding bond companion as he heals in camp when damaged and nor in the active party.
Not if you remain in the Underdark and send them to the underdark version of camp. They wither the moment they are brought to the surface, so you need to leave a party member holding them in the underdark. If the whole party goes to the surface, they will become worthless. TLDR You can safely long rest with them as long as you don’t leave the Underdark.
@thejury94 I've read there is a bug with sending them to camp at the moment. It can also be exploited the other way around so that they won't die at all, giving anti magic that can be used anywhere. There's a build video on RUclips as well describing how to do so for those interested. I can confirm on PS5 that they've persisted through Long Rest with my party, however Karlach was holding them.
@@blackhat4206 I think it’s that if your party member has it when you long rest it lives but if you send it to camp and it’s in a chest then you long rest it dies cause that’s what happened to him and that’s what happened to me
You need to loot merchants and or buy spell scrolls and potions. Don't aggro everyone until you've accessed the local merchant(s). You can still port back to the underdark. Visit the two merchants there. Loot sell buy and if you're really clever you can steal from them, (but you'll need a smoke screen arrow or spell scroll).
Rogues: assassin can clear entire areas without raising alarms from afar, even stronger if you dip into ranger for nightstalker and bow fighting Thief: use hand crossbows and take the bow fighting, the offhand attacks, of which you get two per round benefit from the +10 dmg (if not on honour mode) Spellthief or whatever it's called in English: use minor illusion to position enemies, mage hand to throw bombs/ set up (oil/ water) and shoot a magic arrow that interacts with it (after all you are a thief, you can steal plenty off traders at next to no risk), get companion spell and take the raven (can blind an enemy per round which gives you advantage and if it fails still threaten the enemy which also allows you sneak attack them while having amazing movement by being able to fly (if the enemy is blinded you can just fly away as they loose their reactionary strike and since you gain advantage by the condition you don't need the threatened status). What's important to know with rogues is that you can sneak attack any enemy that you have advantage on or that is threatened (meaning an ally is within melee range) Since rogues get very high initiative due to their high agility you should have multiple characters acting right after eachother, in that case you can freely choose between them by clicking their portrait. So you can collect everyone up with minor illusion, have the assassin open up on the highest priority target, get one free round of damage as the enemies are surprised and miss their first turn, deal aoe with the spellthief as described above (just put whatever you want the magehand to throw from your inventory on the ground, which doesn't cost an action). For fights that survive the opener: choose a thief, get him into melee combat, change to all your other rogues who get sneak attacks due to the enemy being threatened, back to the thief, bonus action disengage -> move away -> bonus action hide. There should be hardly any enemy that ever gets a chance to hit you if you utilise the class and all it's bonus action advantages to it's full kiting potential. And just remember: vendors love to gift you everything they own, so use all the enchanted arrows, bombs, elixirs, oils, poisons, spell scrolls, alchemical ingredients you get access to. Rogues only feel weak if you play them like a straight up fighter and don't understand how the sneak attacks work
Rogue Thief with dual hand crossbows and sharpshooter can output good damage pretty early. The only problem is that theres only 3 unique hand crossbows in the game. Even with unenchanted crossbows a squad of four should have some crazy ranged dps potential.
Rogues are not weak, you're just not very good with them. A party like this has the potential to end every fight before it starts, except for a few boss fights and fights that start with dialogue. But for those fights there are invis pots, explosives, arrows of many targets, slaying arrows, scrolls etc. But hey, skill doesnt always make for entertaining videos. Sometimes watching someone die over and over is better 😂
Haha I try my best to not cheese it and role play as much as I can. I feel like once I start with barrel magic I won't stop, so it's a rule I like to follow That being said I agree, rogues aren't that weak, but they normally would have takes supporting them, without ta ks though, they struggle. Hopefully by the end of this playthrough I will have mastered rogues
@@thejury94they ain't that hard. Just cast fog cloud, stealth and you won't be overrun🤷♂️ AT is the worst rogue sub, but in an all rogue party, one is a must
@@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj not really. Rogues were nerfed in BG3 too considering they can't sneak attack with opportunity attack. They are by far the weakest single class class in the game but that doesn't make them unplayable.
Every martial in the games can outdamage rogue because of how extra attack scales with damage modifiers, and because rogues can do sneak attack only ones per turn. And martials don’t need to have advantage or threatened to do their damage and have better survivability than rogues
genuinely surprised by the title. i myself was gonna do an all-rogue party for a laugh one day, but with the confidence that it wouldn't be so bad. i've had really, really good luck with bg3 rogues
Fun thing you can do. In the Nere cutscene you can switch to a character not in the conversation - Nere will be in the cave still but you can reach him. So you can set up the funni one shot barrels and then just...sneak attack his ass.
@@thejury94 you can also talk to Brivar (hes just outside the room the majority of the gnomes and duergar are in) and plan to team up to kill Nere, then its just Nere, Thrinn and a couple of other Absolutists vs your team and the non-absolutist Duergar. Just gotta kill the scrying eye for Brivar first.
Rogue to lvl 4 and gloomstalker ranger is an absolutely unstoppable combo, thief subclass and hand crossbows, at level 9 you get basically 4 attacks and with the gloves of balanced hands you deal the same amount of damage with your main hand and off hand attacks. That’s the way I run my rogues
The spider queen is easy with an assassin at level 4 if you solo her. I went down the side (you have to cut through a web wall) and killed the first phase spider by the pillar, this aggroed the queen who first woke up the eggs by her starting point and then shifted to where I'd killed the spider (I'd been in turn mode to I'd already moved out of there before she showed up) and then I just waited a few turns for her to stop searching for me and remain standing there. I went up onto the first ledge and took out the eggs with a acid arrow and the baby spiders up high with arrows and then moved to the middle of the web bridge and started raining arrows down onto every one else. As long as you use the bonus action hide after each shot, the spiders never seem to look for you, they just stand there and die one by one. Then I climbed down, finished off a couple baby spiders behind the pillars and took the gem off the ground at the robes off the spider queen. Now the first time I was dumb and just had every one hide and start shooting and the queen wiped the team out in a few turns. Rogues and assassins seem to function better solo as they can avoid actual combat (meaning as long as you are in turn based mode and can keep bonus hiding after each arrow without any one getting you in their vision cone, combat never starts and the NPCs just stand there waiting to die). I like this feature about the rogue but it tends to make the rest of the party feel unneeded in combat, only being there to heal or offer buffs before hand (since you don't need them as pack mules since you can just send every thing to the camp instead of hauling it). You might find this a more enjoyable playthrough if you had a spell caster who could use fog or darkness (darkness works better) or had some darkness arrows as you can step out of the cloud, shoot, then step back in and bonus hide even when surrounded in close combat.
That's because BG3 doesn't have a "str rogue" archetype. Various games tried "str rogue" theme with different leves of success, in PF for example there is a thug archetype wich trades off sneak attack for a vital strike (single uber-powered attack per round), in Solasta there is a Hoodlum rogue which can sneak attack with two-handed great weapons. Str rogues usually do well as frontliners, and trust me, sneak attacks from greatsword are really devastating.
You can actually save alfira by knocking her out in the emerald grove using non lethal attacks, you get a random dragonborn bard showing up in camp instead, you can also poison all of the goblins on the outside of the camp, halfing their health.
Are these larion stats for most popular class based only on tav? Or do they include respecs and origin characters? Bc cleric might be so low hc everyone plans to use shadowheart
If you do that druid cave with the shooting statue again, entering turn based mode lets you walk to the tiles to disable them without it constantly shooting you
"The two weakest classes are the ranger and the rouge" >tfw Gloomstalker Assassin (ranger/rouge) mix is literally the strongest class in the game. Edit: To elaborate, you can use this class to beat anything solo without taking damage
@@thejury94 I think the most optimised is Gloomstalker, Assassin with Spore Druid. Then you combine "Pass without Trace" and another caster concentrating on "Greater Invisibility", and boom.
How DARE you call my favorite class the weakest class? lol good video! honestly, i feel like thief is the best subclass for rogue in BG3 simply because of the huge boon that is two bonus actions, especially with Cunning Action
if you were going to do pure rogue (no multiclassing) ; i would recommend that you get magic initiate cleric for free cast of sanctuary and bless. Hold off doing the harpies until level 4; with 4 party members with magic initiate cleric you make the early game much easier, you want two party members with sanctuary and another two with bless. You have one party member cast sanctuary on the kid in the harpy encounter so he doesn't die, then you have another cast bless on everyone so that you have a + 1d4 resistance to the harpies song and finally a third party member cast sanctuary on the party member concentrating on bless. There is lots of easy opportunities for exp, i.e getting an early shot off the minotaur that approaches the gate at the selune outpost in the under dark. You also place potions next to a fallen party member then shoot/break with an offhand attack to get them back up. If everyone was a thief for two bonus actions, you can 'revive' a party member and attack twice in one round. I would have made everyone a githyanki for the medium armor prof, martial weapons prof, and mage hand, misty step and long jump racial abilities. I.e the +1 breast plate in dammons forge is easy to get by getting a mage hand to throw it, then dismissing the mage hand and stealing said armor out of sight. You could have struggled less, rogues slap if you are creative and know how to approach the game. I would use the 'pokeball' in the gnoll cave to kill kagha without aggro from the entire grove. You kill nettie and the other druid in the other room if you want the spectator to survive so you can finish it off for another 150xp. The way you play the game is akin to incorrectly eating a banana; you eat the skin and discard the fruit. Did you not use arcane lock scroll on the stairs in ethels home? it prevents her from escaping for ten turns and she gets stuck in a 'lockpicking' loop making her an easy kill and yet more yummy exp nuggets. I've completed honour mode as a solo non-martial class. I know you can do better, use that swollen 500 iq brain of yours and stop letting the game play you instead of you playing it. This isn't "hold my beer" its "here, have a beer".
I don't really know how to take this comment haha. Honestly I just enjoy playing the game how I do. I don't like min maxing if I don't need to and enjoy the experience. More of a "enjoy the beer and let things splay out"
You don't need to sneak at all to have advantage. All my rogues flank with my fighters/paladins and honestly do more damage than the mainline heavies most of the time
You say you couldn't find them anywhere, while showing 2 of the withered sussur flowers in your camp, the same 2 you picked up near the tower i assume. Maybe you went to the surface before powering the lift, as it kills the flowers. I didn't dare sending them to camp tbh
Honestly I tried the RUclipsr Stealth’s OTK Assassin build that utilized a rogue/ranger/bard multiclass that worked really well, but I can’t imagine a whole team of Rogue’s being useful. As cool as they are, I just can’t see Arcane Tricksters being useful. Assassin is good in a multiclass, but I don’t know anything about thief
Quick question. Are the stats that Marian shows based on MC class picks, or the whole party comp? I would be surprised if the majority of people really did not have a cleric in the party given its one of the stronger classes in dnd
I suppose you didnt multi class at all which does limit rouges ability to be useful without support. But, I will say a melee rouge ranger combo wearing heavy armor can be one of the tankiest builds in the game especially after lvl 5-6. Add the sentinel feat to a rouge with advantage and oof its a bad day for the other guys.
Just finished a run with my multi rogue/ranger as main. devastating, 3 to 4 attacks per turn unhasted. Slap on haste, the martial class gloves that give a +1 attack and/ or a potion of speed and bosses disappear without ever having a chance to strike due to my high initiative.
0:22 if you are only using rogues and no multi classing, you might have issues, BUT I’d say you take fighter for some archery fighting styles, you effectively have a rifleman (or bowman) combat team.
@@thejury94 there is also a stool that you can break in that same area that will give you a club that will set your strength to 19 as long as you wield it
Easily. Tactician is trivial. And just pick 4 assassins to kill every non boss encounter turn 1 in suprise round. And you can just backpack barrel everything else
2fighter/2rogue and the rest in ranger is devastating. 4 attacks in the 1st round kills basically kills 2-4 enemies. And you got magical arrows to increase dps and status effects. Not to mention attack every round is almost double damage with hunters marked sneak attacks. How is ranger and rogue weak?
@@thejury94 Still can have a lot of flexibility without. Rangers can increase movement and rogues can have double movement with bonus actions. Abusing sneak and pets are tactically sound.
Definitely disagree that "every" party should have at least one rogue. You just need someone who cant do "rogue-like" stuff: damage dealing and perhaps _seperately_ dex utility. Even for the latter part you can mostly get away with busting chests or using a spellcaster with the unlock spell.
rogues taken all the way to 12 arent great, but their first 3 levels are crazy good. skill expertise, sneak attack and cunning action on top of either two bonus actions for dual-wielders and monks or automatic criticals on ambushes and free advantage at the start of combat (since you're almost always going to go close to first.) the big issue is that the rogue's features after level 3 are ass. uncanny dodge is useful, but as a rogue you shouldnt be in a position to be directly targeted by attacks anyway. if you are then somethings gone wrong. same story with evasion but less so, since you're reducing the damage by half and also giving yourself the chance to dodge it completely. reliable talent is really good in tabletop but sucks in bg3 because of inspiration and craploads of stacking modifiers, plus unless your rogue is also your party's face then failing a skill check just means taking damage or having to use another set of thieves tools. after 3, the subclasses are even worse. assassin 9 gets access to a single level 1 ritual spell. amazing. thief 9 is slightly better since instead you get access to a single level 2 spell, BUT you can only cast it once per short rest. this means the only value you get from rogue after level 3 is bigger sneak attack dice. which is good, don't get me wrong, but this is level 9. gale is over here casting cloudkill and using telekinesis to hurl enemies off ten story buildings. shadowheart just summoned a pillar of fire from the sky while healing my entire party. and what did astarion do? he went invisible. then broke the invisibility with his attack on the next turn. and he needs to have a sit down before he can do it again.
I think rouges can be pretty op in bg3 with the upgrade from the zaitisk in the creche the thief rougue became for me a walking crowd controll army 😂 Having two bonus aktions to use mindflayer powers and then getting haste you csn pretty much kill almost everything in one turn
@@thejury94 I recommend having Shadowheart or Gale with silence. Give Astarion a good bow, play a ranger for Hunter’s Mark (What I did), or have a barbarian specked for throwing damage. Starting the fight with a couple people hiding can also help keep people from getting lured immediately.
I like how this video is negligent of how good Rogues actually are. A thief can crouch next to a sight cone, cunning dash, and move far enough away that they won't be detected. This not only doesn't end combat as say an invis potion would but makes you effectively invisible. Is it a slower style of play? Yes. Is it objectively more powerful? Also yes. I can kill the entirety of the Cresh solo by abusing Flee Combat, Loading Doors, etc. Also doing this while not taking a single tick of damage. If you actually understand the stealth mechanics in the game you will realize that not having a human DM means you can do insane stuff.
@@thejury94 All I'm saying is that doesn't sound like a Lawful alignment to me. Inciting Chaos doesn't feel like not being directly involved so much as being an agent of it.
Pure rogue is underwhelming but multiclassing with ranger/bard + paladin is strong as f*ck. Also dual wield crossbow with sharpshooter is broken as hell.
I think cleric is least chosen cause of shadowheart. I think if you want a rougher time, (maybe), full team of monks? Not saying they are the weakest btw just thought it would turn out to be...harder.
@SoulTheWhiteAngel Uh huh. It makes open hand monks in particular pretty OP, though. You could easily solo tactician with a specced out Tavern Brawler monk.
Did this man just say Rangers are a weak class? ... Stealth archer can solo Honor Mode with ease. Let alone a full party of snipers that can firing squad the world with .50 caliber rifles. But sure. They're "weak." About as weak as unarmed monks, right? Single strongest class in the game. XD
Three eventualities, depending on your dialogue choices. 1) Aradin punches Zevlor (useful for stealing Zevs's awesome gloves) 2) Zevlor punches Aradin 3) No one punches anyone
Drow sword warlock all the way: welcome to the darkness! Now let me strike you all down while you can't do shit about it! (And somewhere in act two there drops a ring or socket (can't recall which exactly) that allows for one companion to join in on the fun by granting immunity to blindness. If you took the evil route and sided with the racist drow discriminating tieflings you could even have Wyll add another 2 darknesses per short rest and join in on the fun) (though I, playing a lawfully good character, of course sided with the polite little goblins against that hate ridden grove where everyone was either racially profiling, insulting, threatening me with death or stealing from me and even the freaking kids set me up and had the guards imprison me on two different occasions! Burning that hate filled den was the lawfully good choice and I will die on this hill! Screw Wyll and Karlach, those evil demon worshipping traitors!
Not sure why Clerics being the least played _custom origin_ class should surprise people, when the reason is yelling at you in like the fourth room of the Nautiloid. Why make your PC a Cleric when you're going to be romancing one?
@thejury94 start every fight with the quasit while its invis and you get surprise every fight, or use greater invis and pass without trace to kill everything without triggering combat
The advantages with tricksters are that you have extremely potent setup: you get minor illusion as a cantrip that will gather all NPC's in an area to one spot, your magehand can throw anything you drag out of your inventory onto the ground (which doesn't cost any action) and since you are a rogue you should have stolen plenty of magic arrows/ bombs from vendors. So gather everyone up with minor illusion, open up with e.g. a poison arrow, have your hand throw a water barrel/ pot, oil, gas bomb and follow up with the adequate buffed magic arrow (so ice/ electric if they are wet, fire on oil and poison clouds etc). You can wipe out entire rooms on your own this way. The other advantage is that you get access to summon familiar which lets you get e.g. a raven that can blind enemies (you get advantage on them and they attack with disadvantage) allowing your spellthief to sneak attack. Also the familiar and the improved invisible mage hand can both be used to put enemies into the threatened condition (enemy within melee range) which again allows your spellthief to use sneak attack against them. Other useful spells are of course all the mobility improving spells from longstrider (if you don't cheese it with a char that stays in base) to slow fall and the ability to cast blinding fog or whatever it's called to block off ranged attackers and allowing you to pickpocket anyone anywhere (cast bless with the item from act 1 on yourself, cast the cloud on the merchant, immediately enter turn bases, bonus action sneak and pickpocket away) if you are not on honour mode you can even use the ritual spell to disguise yourself to prevent reputation loss if you do get caught). Also handy if you want to disengage from combat/ you get overwhelmed, cast the cloud on yourself and sneak out of it while the enemies are blinded
I'm sure you know this, but just in case that you don't, you don't need Advantage to use Sneak Attack. That is one way to do it and having advantage is clearly always ideal, but the other method is against an enemy that is Threatened. Enemy's get threatened when an Ally is within melee range of them and holding a melee weapon.
It's a good idea to set your reactions so that it prompts you to use Sneak Attack whenever you make an attack roll that would allow Sneak Attack. That way you don't always need to specifically use Sneak Attack with your main attack because you can also proc it with an offhand attack as well. If you're attacking more than once in a round it can be a great idea to wait to use Sneak Attack until you've attacked twice to see if the second hit is a Crit that way you can proc Sneak Attack (Critical).
I had no idea you could set your preferences like that, genius.
I have found (and Im not 100% sure this is the case) but tactician seems to be less forgiving on what's considered an advantage
@@thejury94what gives advantage: darkness+devils sight, stealth, invisibility. Further, some items, like the hunting shortbow vs monstrosities
I want aware you can set your reactions
Goddamnit 400 hours grumble grumble grumble
The skill says you need advantage for it, wdym? You don't need stealth but you do need advantage, right?
Shadowheart is a half-elf, so she can use a shield with no penalties. Your character can too, if you are so inclined.
Ahhh that explains it, I don't know why I didn't look into this more
Just finished the game with two assassins and I can confirm my brain is now permamently wired to try and sneak attack/suprise everybody. My personal favorite was the "Dorito of Doom" behind Gortash where you can misty step without alerting him.
...man I spent too much time on ambushes.
Haha im the same!
By the time I got to Gortash my Assassin Duergar Dark Urge could turn any battle into a meme since I could disengage thanks to invis either from the Deathstalker Mantle or from a Bloodlust Elixir additional action and repeat ad nauseam
Poor Gortash ended up staring opposite of where he's usually looking so I surprised him with the entire party
Rogues are the embodiment of glass cannons; huge damage, but brittle af. Great video, can't wait for more!
So very brittle 🥶
Yeah but you can combine Assassin and Gloomstalker with the Ranger Knight trait and use Heavy Armour. Although it's not great for Stealth.
The ring Bernard gives, you need to wear it and it will reveal a secret button at the top that when pressed teleport you in the basement of the Tower, there you can find one of the best Staff early on, giving Bless that give an extra 1d4 to Spell attack, not great on Rogue but really useful for Warlock and Ray of Frost Wizard.
When I was editing the video I actually listened to Bernard in the recording and realised this. I will need to go back.
Ooooh so that’s how you get there.
I always thought you had to use gas form and fly past the secret wall.
@@destroyercreater98mage hand can fly in and pull yhe lever to open the door.
Assuming I'm thinking of the right secret door.
In the beta rogue was unstoppable because if your stealth was good enough you could hide just about anywhere. You would kill entire rooms of enemies with just one rogue. But it trivialized everything.
Oh that would be too easy
I was able to clear Yurgir room in honor mode using my ranger/rogue with only 9hp, lol. At level 9 with the right gears, it remain hidden against detect presence right in front. It was very slow though. The thing is there are boss fights that you can't use this tactic.
You can still do this with Greater Invisibility or with the Dark Urge's unique cloak.
The Skyrim technique.
Ranger one of the weakest classes?
Try a full beast master party with familiars, give them aid and pass without a trace.
Or get gloomstalker and melt your enemies round 1. Everyone stealths as bonus action, combat ends, restart with dread ambusher. Need LoS block? Fog cloud. Advantage from stealth, sharp shooter and dread ambusher is a crazy combo.
And I hope you know about camp casting🤷♂️sadly you killed Gale who would be the ultimate warding bond companion as he heals in camp when damaged and nor in the active party.
I'll have to try ranger sometime
Came to defend the rangers too lmao
Fun fact: The Sussur Bloom flowers die and turn into leaves if you send them to Camp/Long Rest. In the clip you showed you can see the sussur leaves
Not if you remain in the Underdark and send them to the underdark version of camp. They wither the moment they are brought to the surface, so you need to leave a party member holding them in the underdark. If the whole party goes to the surface, they will become worthless.
TLDR
You can safely long rest with them as long as you don’t leave the Underdark.
I didn't leave the Underdark though, I transferred them to camp storage and that killed them :(
@@thejury94 yeah same I stayed in the Underdark but after I rested they still died
@thejury94 I've read there is a bug with sending them to camp at the moment. It can also be exploited the other way around so that they won't die at all, giving anti magic that can be used anywhere. There's a build video on RUclips as well describing how to do so for those interested. I can confirm on PS5 that they've persisted through Long Rest with my party, however Karlach was holding them.
@@blackhat4206 I think it’s that if your party member has it when you long rest it lives but if you send it to camp and it’s in a chest then you long rest it dies cause that’s what happened to him and that’s what happened to me
Rogue gloomstalker wih sharpshooter feat is a wombo combo if ever there was one. Why have a stealth archer when you can have a stealth machine gun
If only I was multiclassing :(
Don't forget you can also shoot levers. No mage hand needed.
Mage hand gets it's own turn, so it's still helpful
You need to loot merchants and or buy spell scrolls and potions. Don't aggro everyone until you've accessed the local merchant(s). You can still port back to the underdark. Visit the two merchants there. Loot sell buy and if you're really clever you can steal from them, (but you'll need a smoke screen arrow or spell scroll).
good tips :)
Rogues: assassin can clear entire areas without raising alarms from afar, even stronger if you dip into ranger for nightstalker and bow fighting
Thief: use hand crossbows and take the bow fighting, the offhand attacks, of which you get two per round benefit from the +10 dmg (if not on honour mode)
Spellthief or whatever it's called in English: use minor illusion to position enemies, mage hand to throw bombs/ set up (oil/ water) and shoot a magic arrow that interacts with it (after all you are a thief, you can steal plenty off traders at next to no risk), get companion spell and take the raven (can blind an enemy per round which gives you advantage and if it fails still threaten the enemy which also allows you sneak attack them while having amazing movement by being able to fly (if the enemy is blinded you can just fly away as they loose their reactionary strike and since you gain advantage by the condition you don't need the threatened status).
What's important to know with rogues is that you can sneak attack any enemy that you have advantage on or that is threatened (meaning an ally is within melee range)
Since rogues get very high initiative due to their high agility you should have multiple characters acting right after eachother, in that case you can freely choose between them by clicking their portrait.
So you can collect everyone up with minor illusion, have the assassin open up on the highest priority target, get one free round of damage as the enemies are surprised and miss their first turn, deal aoe with the spellthief as described above (just put whatever you want the magehand to throw from your inventory on the ground, which doesn't cost an action).
For fights that survive the opener: choose a thief, get him into melee combat, change to all your other rogues who get sneak attacks due to the enemy being threatened, back to the thief, bonus action disengage -> move away -> bonus action hide.
There should be hardly any enemy that ever gets a chance to hit you if you utilise the class and all it's bonus action advantages to it's full kiting potential.
And just remember: vendors love to gift you everything they own, so use all the enchanted arrows, bombs, elixirs, oils, poisons, spell scrolls, alchemical ingredients you get access to.
Rogues only feel weak if you play them like a straight up fighter and don't understand how the sneak attacks work
This is very detailed, thank you
Rogue Thief with dual hand crossbows and sharpshooter can output good damage pretty early. The only problem is that theres only 3 unique hand crossbows in the game. Even with unenchanted crossbows a squad of four should have some crazy ranged dps potential.
I still should have run
I’ve played 4 rogues in dnd, they are definitely the balling class
They are super strong when used right
You put ranger and rogue as two weakest classes, but together... ranger/rogue is good ngl
I'll give them a try sometime
So good, I’ve got astarion in multiple saves as a rogue/ranger
Your Lawful character loves sowing the seeds of chaos? If that's the case, then he's not Lawful.
Touche
Rogues are not weak, you're just not very good with them. A party like this has the potential to end every fight before it starts, except for a few boss fights and fights that start with dialogue. But for those fights there are invis pots, explosives, arrows of many targets, slaying arrows, scrolls etc.
But hey, skill doesnt always make for entertaining videos. Sometimes watching someone die over and over is better 😂
Haha I try my best to not cheese it and role play as much as I can. I feel like once I start with barrel magic I won't stop, so it's a rule I like to follow
That being said I agree, rogues aren't that weak, but they normally would have takes supporting them, without ta ks though, they struggle. Hopefully by the end of this playthrough I will have mastered rogues
@@thejury94they ain't that hard. Just cast fog cloud, stealth and you won't be overrun🤷♂️
AT is the worst rogue sub, but in an all rogue party, one is a must
Pretty much any time someone says "X are the weakest class", they are actually saying "I don't know how to play X".
@@AndrewJohnson-oy8oj not really. Rogues were nerfed in BG3 too considering they can't sneak attack with opportunity attack. They are by far the weakest single class class in the game but that doesn't make them unplayable.
Every martial in the games can outdamage rogue because of how extra attack scales with damage modifiers, and because rogues can do sneak attack only ones per turn. And martials don’t need to have advantage or threatened to do their damage and have better survivability than rogues
genuinely surprised by the title. i myself was gonna do an all-rogue party for a laugh one day, but with the confidence that it wouldn't be so bad. i've had really, really good luck with bg3 rogues
if you do, push through to act 3, you wont regret it
Fun thing you can do. In the Nere cutscene you can switch to a character not in the conversation - Nere will be in the cave still but you can reach him. So you can set up the funni one shot barrels and then just...sneak attack his ass.
Great idea!
@@thejury94 you can also talk to Brivar (hes just outside the room the majority of the gnomes and duergar are in) and plan to team up to kill Nere, then its just Nere, Thrinn and a couple of other Absolutists vs your team and the non-absolutist Duergar. Just gotta kill the scrying eye for Brivar first.
Rogue to lvl 4 and gloomstalker ranger is an absolutely unstoppable combo, thief subclass and hand crossbows, at level 9 you get basically 4 attacks and with the gloves of balanced hands you deal the same amount of damage with your main hand and off hand attacks. That’s the way I run my rogues
Ill have to try it sometime!
The spider queen is easy with an assassin at level 4 if you solo her. I went down the side (you have to cut through a web wall) and killed the first phase spider by the pillar, this aggroed the queen who first woke up the eggs by her starting point and then shifted to where I'd killed the spider (I'd been in turn mode to I'd already moved out of there before she showed up) and then I just waited a few turns for her to stop searching for me and remain standing there. I went up onto the first ledge and took out the eggs with a acid arrow and the baby spiders up high with arrows and then moved to the middle of the web bridge and started raining arrows down onto every one else. As long as you use the bonus action hide after each shot, the spiders never seem to look for you, they just stand there and die one by one. Then I climbed down, finished off a couple baby spiders behind the pillars and took the gem off the ground at the robes off the spider queen.
Now the first time I was dumb and just had every one hide and start shooting and the queen wiped the team out in a few turns. Rogues and assassins seem to function better solo as they can avoid actual combat (meaning as long as you are in turn based mode and can keep bonus hiding after each arrow without any one getting you in their vision cone, combat never starts and the NPCs just stand there waiting to die). I like this feature about the rogue but it tends to make the rest of the party feel unneeded in combat, only being there to heal or offer buffs before hand (since you don't need them as pack mules since you can just send every thing to the camp instead of hauling it). You might find this a more enjoyable playthrough if you had a spell caster who could use fog or darkness (darkness works better) or had some darkness arrows as you can step out of the cloud, shoot, then step back in and bonus hide even when surrounded in close combat.
thanks for the pointers
That's because BG3 doesn't have a "str rogue" archetype. Various games tried "str rogue" theme with different leves of success, in PF for example there is a thug archetype wich trades off sneak attack for a vital strike (single uber-powered attack per round), in Solasta there is a Hoodlum rogue which can sneak attack with two-handed great weapons. Str rogues usually do well as frontliners, and trust me, sneak attacks from greatsword are really devastating.
Bro i thought you had way more subs than you actually do. Very entertaining videos. Keep up the good work
Thank you! I really appreciate it! ❤️ I will be sad when/if I get to the point where this comment no longer comes up
You can actually save alfira by knocking her out in the emerald grove using non lethal attacks, you get a random dragonborn bard showing up in camp instead, you can also poison all of the goblins on the outside of the camp, halfing their health.
That's a lot of steps haha
Not sure if you knew but if you put the ring of light on while on the elevator platform a secret button appears with more stuff.
I will have to go back and try it out
Are these larion stats for most popular class based only on tav? Or do they include respecs and origin characters? Bc cleric might be so low hc everyone plans to use shadowheart
I believe it's based on tav
If you do that druid cave with the shooting statue again, entering turn based mode lets you walk to the tiles to disable them without it constantly shooting you
I thought I would be fast enough :(
@@thejury94 I thought I was, too, before I got party wiped 4 times lmfao
I think you can also just sneak past. That’s what I did on my most recent play through and the statues didn’t shoot once.
Sneaking also works, they don't generally attack if you are sneaking
"The two weakest classes are the ranger and the rouge" >tfw Gloomstalker Assassin (ranger/rouge) mix is literally the strongest class in the game.
Edit: To elaborate, you can use this class to beat anything solo without taking damage
I'll have to do a strongest multi class video and dominate the game with it.
I think I'll need it after this playthrough
@@thejury94 I think the most optimised is Gloomstalker, Assassin with Spore Druid. Then you combine "Pass without Trace" and another caster concentrating on "Greater Invisibility", and boom.
@@TwistedScarlett60 sound alike a plan
How DARE you call my favorite class the weakest class? lol
good video! honestly, i feel like thief is the best subclass for rogue in BG3 simply because of the huge boon that is two bonus actions, especially with Cunning Action
Haha thanks! I think I agree with you on thief.
if you were going to do pure rogue (no multiclassing) ; i would recommend that you get magic initiate cleric for free cast of sanctuary and bless. Hold off doing the harpies until level 4; with 4 party members with magic initiate cleric you make the early game much easier, you want two party members with sanctuary and another two with bless. You have one party member cast sanctuary on the kid in the harpy encounter so he doesn't die, then you have another cast bless on everyone so that you have a + 1d4 resistance to the harpies song and finally a third party member cast sanctuary on the party member concentrating on bless.
There is lots of easy opportunities for exp, i.e getting an early shot off the minotaur that approaches the gate at the selune outpost in the under dark. You also place potions next to a fallen party member then shoot/break with an offhand attack to get them back up. If everyone was a thief for two bonus actions, you can 'revive' a party member and attack twice in one round.
I would have made everyone a githyanki for the medium armor prof, martial weapons prof, and mage hand, misty step and long jump racial abilities. I.e the +1 breast plate in dammons forge is easy to get by getting a mage hand to throw it, then dismissing the mage hand and stealing said armor out of sight.
You could have struggled less, rogues slap if you are creative and know how to approach the game. I would use the 'pokeball' in the gnoll cave to kill kagha without aggro from the entire grove. You kill nettie and the other druid in the other room if you want the spectator to survive so you can finish it off for another 150xp. The way you play the game is akin to incorrectly eating a banana; you eat the skin and discard the fruit. Did you not use arcane lock scroll on the stairs in ethels home? it prevents her from escaping for ten turns and she gets stuck in a 'lockpicking' loop making her an easy kill and yet more yummy exp nuggets.
I've completed honour mode as a solo non-martial class. I know you can do better, use that swollen 500 iq brain of yours and stop letting the game play you instead of you playing it. This isn't "hold my beer" its "here, have a beer".
I don't really know how to take this comment haha. Honestly I just enjoy playing the game how I do. I don't like min maxing if I don't need to and enjoy the experience.
More of a "enjoy the beer and let things splay out"
You don't need to sneak at all to have advantage. All my rogues flank with my fighters/paladins and honestly do more damage than the mainline heavies most of the time
They don't, but I'm finding that I didn't get many advantages unless I was sneaking, seems the enemy have more abilities that negate your advantage
@@thejury94you can try various abilities like Tasha’s Hideous Laughter from the Arcane Trickster or the Assassin’s first turn abilities
You say you couldn't find them anywhere, while showing 2 of the withered sussur flowers in your camp, the same 2 you picked up near the tower i assume. Maybe you went to the surface before powering the lift, as it kills the flowers. I didn't dare sending them to camp tbh
I didn't even notice the flowers in my camp, you must have good eyes because I completely missed them if they were these haha
@@thejury94 they look like 2 sad blue leaves on top of you inventory at 19:27 :)
Honestly I tried the RUclipsr Stealth’s OTK Assassin build that utilized a rogue/ranger/bard multiclass that worked really well, but I can’t imagine a whole team of Rogue’s being useful. As cool as they are, I just can’t see Arcane Tricksters being useful. Assassin is good in a multiclass, but I don’t know anything about thief
they become a lot more useful in act 3
Quick question. Are the stats that Marian shows based on MC class picks, or the whole party comp? I would be surprised if the majority of people really did not have a cleric in the party given its one of the stronger classes in dnd
Main character picks.
@@thejury94 yeah that makes sense
I suppose you didnt multi class at all which does limit rouges ability to be useful without support. But, I will say a melee rouge ranger combo wearing heavy armor can be one of the tankiest builds in the game especially after lvl 5-6. Add the sentinel feat to a rouge with advantage and oof its a bad day for the other guys.
Yep, no multiclass
Just finished a run with my multi rogue/ranger as main. devastating, 3 to 4 attacks per turn unhasted. Slap on haste, the martial class gloves that give a +1 attack and/ or a potion of speed and bosses disappear without ever having a chance to strike due to my high initiative.
Ranger rogues sounds great! It makes sense since I used a bow in 90% of fights
0:22 if you are only using rogues and no multi classing, you might have issues, BUT I’d say you take fighter for some archery fighting styles, you effectively have a rifleman (or bowman) combat team.
I think you right
Hint go back to the tower, while wearing the ring you got as a reward
You know, I realized this after I was editing video, I paid attention to what the robot said during the edit and I will go back before act 2
@@thejury94 there is also a stool that you can break in that same area that will give you a club that will set your strength to 19 as long as you wield it
rogue is one of the strongest classes to multi class out of. Thief rogue champion fighter is one of my favorite comboes
On their own is struggle street
Easily. Tactician is trivial. And just pick 4 assassins to kill every non boss encounter turn 1 in suprise round. And you can just backpack barrel everything else
I actually found i got more use out of thieves over assassins in the end.
Lets goooo!! Been waiting for this
So glad! Hope you liked it!
Like you said, rogues are not bad... you just can't have more than one in your party.
Maybe 2 max.
2fighter/2rogue and the rest in ranger is devastating. 4 attacks in the 1st round kills basically kills 2-4 enemies. And you got magical arrows to increase dps and status effects.
Not to mention attack every round is almost double damage with hunters marked sneak attacks. How is ranger and rogue weak?
On their own without multiclassing, and without depending on tanks
@@thejury94 Still can have a lot of flexibility without. Rangers can increase movement and rogues can have double movement with bonus actions. Abusing sneak and pets are tactically sound.
just get the ring that gives advantage on ALL attacks XD guaranteed sneak attack on every single turn without needing to be in danger
WHERE!?
Advantage on ALL ATTACKS!? I've never heard of this ring wtf
I found it, It can be bought from a trader in Moonrise towers@@kinsan89
Definitely disagree that "every" party should have at least one rogue. You just need someone who cant do "rogue-like" stuff: damage dealing and perhaps _seperately_ dex utility. Even for the latter part you can mostly get away with busting chests or using a spellcaster with the unlock spell.
very true
rogues taken all the way to 12 arent great, but their first 3 levels are crazy good. skill expertise, sneak attack and cunning action on top of either two bonus actions for dual-wielders and monks or automatic criticals on ambushes and free advantage at the start of combat (since you're almost always going to go close to first.)
the big issue is that the rogue's features after level 3 are ass. uncanny dodge is useful, but as a rogue you shouldnt be in a position to be directly targeted by attacks anyway. if you are then somethings gone wrong. same story with evasion but less so, since you're reducing the damage by half and also giving yourself the chance to dodge it completely. reliable talent is really good in tabletop but sucks in bg3 because of inspiration and craploads of stacking modifiers, plus unless your rogue is also your party's face then failing a skill check just means taking damage or having to use another set of thieves tools.
after 3, the subclasses are even worse. assassin 9 gets access to a single level 1 ritual spell. amazing. thief 9 is slightly better since instead you get access to a single level 2 spell, BUT you can only cast it once per short rest. this means the only value you get from rogue after level 3 is bigger sneak attack dice. which is good, don't get me wrong, but this is level 9. gale is over here casting cloudkill and using telekinesis to hurl enemies off ten story buildings. shadowheart just summoned a pillar of fire from the sky while healing my entire party. and what did astarion do? he went invisible. then broke the invisibility with his attack on the next turn. and he needs to have a sit down before he can do it again.
Hahaha yea I'm finding that with rogues, my intention is to play them all the way to 12, I haven't experimented with multiclassing yet
My run on tactician i did a dual wield bard 6, thief 4 , paladin 2... damn that shit was brutal. I deleted raphael in one turn.
As a cleric main, I want to point out that jury never fully party wiped during the A-Men run...
don't know why you would be between rouge and ranger when gloom stalker ranger is one of the most devastating dpr classes in the whole game
I haven't played a Ranger before, but I might have to give them a go now
@@thejury94 i recommend the dual hand crossbow sharpshooter gloomstalker build its so fun
Well what could go wrong
I think rouges can be pretty op in bg3 with the upgrade from the zaitisk in the creche the thief rougue became for me a walking crowd controll army 😂
Having two bonus aktions to use mindflayer powers and then getting haste you csn pretty much kill almost everything in one turn
I really want to get the zaitisk buffs!
To beat the Harpies, have good ranged characters and the silence spell
D:
@@thejury94 I recommend having Shadowheart or Gale with silence. Give Astarion a good bow, play a ranger for Hunter’s Mark (What I did), or have a barbarian specked for throwing damage. Starting the fight with a couple people hiding can also help keep people from getting lured immediately.
I like how this video is negligent of how good Rogues actually are. A thief can crouch next to a sight cone, cunning dash, and move far enough away that they won't be detected. This not only doesn't end combat as say an invis potion would but makes you effectively invisible. Is it a slower style of play? Yes. Is it objectively more powerful? Also yes. I can kill the entirety of the Cresh solo by abusing Flee Combat, Loading Doors, etc. Also doing this while not taking a single tick of damage. If you actually understand the stealth mechanics in the game you will realize that not having a human DM means you can do insane stuff.
A Lawful Evil assassin who loves sowing the seeds of chaos?
Sewing the seeds of chaos, and letting chaos ensue without being directly involved. Allowing Don to easily take advantage of chaotic situations.
@@thejury94 All I'm saying is that doesn't sound like a Lawful alignment to me. Inciting Chaos doesn't feel like not being directly involved so much as being an agent of it.
What’s at that 5:55-5:56 mark
It’s some dude who looks like pewdiepie with a beard
A glitch in the matrix
Pure rogue is underwhelming but multiclassing with ranger/bard + paladin is strong as f*ck. Also dual wield crossbow with sharpshooter is broken as hell.
It sure is underwhelming haha
I think cleric is least chosen cause of shadowheart. I think if you want a rougher time, (maybe), full team of monks? Not saying they are the weakest btw just thought it would turn out to be...harder.
No tavern brawler, maybe.
@@blackhat4206 thats only at lvl 4
@SoulTheWhiteAngel Uh huh. It makes open hand monks in particular pretty OP, though. You could easily solo tactician with a specced out Tavern Brawler monk.
@@blackhat4206 oh thats what you meant i see
Ive never used a monk before, might have to give it a go.
Ranger and rogue the weakest but when multiclass together becomes one of the strongest 😂❤
I almost turned off the video as soon as you killed Karlach. That was rough.
haha you know, I had to bear with it as well, Telling myself, its not my choice its Don's
You killed the tieflings, but not the gur hunter?
I don't play evil characters often, and it shows
Rogues dont suck no matter how you look at it
I'm doing something wrong :,(
@@thejury94 dwergar rogues are pretty insane
Did this man just say Rangers are a weak class? ... Stealth archer can solo Honor Mode with ease. Let alone a full party of snipers that can firing squad the world with .50 caliber rifles. But sure. They're "weak." About as weak as unarmed monks, right? Single strongest class in the game. XD
Why is Zevlor the one who knocks out Aradin now?
I think it changes depending on how you approach the interaction
I think if one of Aradin’s companions die the interaction changes
Three eventualities, depending on your dialogue choices. 1) Aradin punches Zevlor (useful for stealing Zevs's awesome gloves) 2) Zevlor punches Aradin 3) No one punches anyone
Cleric, ranger and monk are my top 3 favourite classes I don't trust the popular opinion.
I think popular opinion is more on people who don't know
I'll pick Open-Hand monk over any othher melee dmg dealer any day
Drow sword warlock all the way: welcome to the darkness! Now let me strike you all down while you can't do shit about it! (And somewhere in act two there drops a ring or socket (can't recall which exactly) that allows for one companion to join in on the fun by granting immunity to blindness.
If you took the evil route and sided with the racist drow discriminating tieflings you could even have Wyll add another 2 darknesses per short rest and join in on the fun) (though I, playing a lawfully good character, of course sided with the polite little goblins against that hate ridden grove where everyone was either racially profiling, insulting, threatening me with death or stealing from me and even the freaking kids set me up and had the guards imprison me on two different occasions! Burning that hate filled den was the lawfully good choice and I will die on this hill! Screw Wyll and Karlach, those evil demon worshipping traitors!
Monk Rogue would like to speak with you
Monk Rogue > Rogue
@@thejury94 absolutely lmao
6 Monk (I prefer Open Hand), 4 Rogue (Thief), 2 Fighter (just for Action Surge). Tavern Brawler and ASI +2 Dex. Cloud Giant potion >:)
Why not Honor mode?
Honestly I wanna finish it normally before I try a challenge version
Rogue is great.
They sure are
Not sure why Clerics being the least played _custom origin_ class should surprise people, when the reason is yelling at you in like the fourth room of the Nautiloid. Why make your PC a Cleric when you're going to be romancing one?
Its a good point, though there are still plenty of rogues despite Asterion
Noooo....you killed Minty :((((((
rip
"Im bad at rogue so its the worst class, despite the fact that you can solo the game with a rogue archer"
Hopefully by the time I'm finished I'll be good with rogue 😉
@thejury94 start every fight with the quasit while its invis and you get surprise every fight, or use greater invis and pass without trace to kill everything without triggering combat
Doing a solo on tact currently. 4 rouges is easy mode wtf??
Your built different
Saying rogue is the weakes class is truly an insult to me man 😭
Why do you play dark urgeeee I want to see your videos but I don’t want the spoilers for dark urge, the suffering
😢
The next one will be normal
Gun Don?
Dun Gon?
In Bhaal's name
amen
If you think rogues are weak you are not playing your rogue right.
Rogues struggle without something to draw attention away from them, otherwise they are devastating.
@@thejury94 Then again they struggle if you don't use the right equipment and there is a lot good equipment for them throughout the whole game
Disagree, rogue is amazing...for when you're playing with a friend who just bought the game and don't wanna feel too OP compared to a newbie
I’ve never seen anyone play the game so badly or play rogues so badly. Good grief….
I don't play to be good, I play to have fun 😊
@@thejury94 I get that but it still hurt my soul to watch some of that lol
@@nerdzombiegoddess3407 hurt my soul too 😅
you can say they suck but a party of assasin rougues are broken
Maybe I should change them all
@@thejury94 definitely
The whole "I'm so cool and edgy because I'm choosing to play a serial killer" is getting pretty tired.
I don't think there is anything "cool" or "edgy" about being nasty on the Internet either
You really ought to clarify. Multiclassing a few levels into rogue is great, but the pure worst class is def arcane trickster.
Yea I'm finding no value from trickster
The advantages with tricksters are that you have extremely potent setup: you get minor illusion as a cantrip that will gather all NPC's in an area to one spot, your magehand can throw anything you drag out of your inventory onto the ground (which doesn't cost any action) and since you are a rogue you should have stolen plenty of magic arrows/ bombs from vendors. So gather everyone up with minor illusion, open up with e.g. a poison arrow, have your hand throw a water barrel/ pot, oil, gas bomb and follow up with the adequate buffed magic arrow (so ice/ electric if they are wet, fire on oil and poison clouds etc). You can wipe out entire rooms on your own this way.
The other advantage is that you get access to summon familiar which lets you get e.g. a raven that can blind enemies (you get advantage on them and they attack with disadvantage) allowing your spellthief to sneak attack. Also the familiar and the improved invisible mage hand can both be used to put enemies into the threatened condition (enemy within melee range) which again allows your spellthief to use sneak attack against them.
Other useful spells are of course all the mobility improving spells from longstrider (if you don't cheese it with a char that stays in base) to slow fall and the ability to cast blinding fog or whatever it's called to block off ranged attackers and allowing you to pickpocket anyone anywhere (cast bless with the item from act 1 on yourself, cast the cloud on the merchant, immediately enter turn bases, bonus action sneak and pickpocket away) if you are not on honour mode you can even use the ritual spell to disguise yourself to prevent reputation loss if you do get caught). Also handy if you want to disengage from combat/ you get overwhelmed, cast the cloud on yourself and sneak out of it while the enemies are blinded