This is the first time I've seen anyone post actual data on uniformity. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I wish more people did this, otherwise it's all subjective eyeballing.
Of all the manual grinders you've used or tested, which do you prefer for pour over from a taste perspective? And thank you for your reviews. Very helpful.
@@Adam-vx6to I think for the price of the Comandante with red clix, I could have bought a JX and a JX Pro. I prefer to have two grinders. One for espresso, and one for filter.
I purchased an 1ZPRESSO K-Plus a few months ago and honestly it’s phenomenal. The external numbers for grind adjustment make it an absolute breeze for switching between grind sizes. I also own the Niche Zero and if I’m being perfectly honest, I do prefer my K-Plus in regards to filter coffees. I prefer the niche for espresso. More so because hand grinding for espresso becomes a pain when you’re pulling several shots a day 🤣
Hi Asser.. wow great video about C40. On the other side, I’ve read your full review about J-Max. In the article you mentioned that for espresso, JE series or C40 is better in terms of sweetness and depth of flavor than J-Max/JX/JX-Pro. Does it mean that JE/JE-Plus is on par with C40? If yes, I’m interested in JE because it’s cheaper and I’ll use it exclusively for espresso. Do you think the JE-Plus higher price is worth buying or better stick to JE? Please kindly advise. Thank you.
Yes, I think JE is on par with C40 for espresso. It has a bit more body vs more clarity on the C40. I would probably go for basic JE for extra speed (almost 2x) and cost saving. It has less steps compared to JE Plus, but I think it's still okay for dialing in.
Thank you for your videos. Am i correct in understanding the JX pro is not worth it over the new JX? I'm between an 1zpresso and a commandante. it seems the commandante may not be worth twice the price. i think i may prefer going electric for that price.
Hey there Asser! Thanks so much for featuring our C40 Nitro Blade on your channel and for your well balanced review :). I'm really happy that you love the flavour of the coffees you've brewed with your Comandante grinder -- both filter and espresso! We never intended for our Nitro Blade burr set to be the fastest burr out there. After all, what you gain in speed you often lose elsewhere. Our burr geometry has been optimised for an excellent bean thruput with a reduced crank torque and at the same time delivering the refined particle size distribution for the best possible brewing results - we love this holistic approach to grind performance, which is particularly key for manual grinding :). Sounds like you enjoyed your cup quality too :). We appreciate your comments about the design. I think you'll be happy to see a few things we have lined up for 2021 :). We do absolutely love the advanced polymer engine frame though, because it allows us to use food safe stainless steel rather than aluminium, and still keep the overall weight of the grinder down and with no loss of performance or stability. Great for those looking to travel with their C40 and brew wherever :). Thanks for your support and all the best from the team here in Munich! Joe
Hi Joe, good to hear from you guys! Definitely had many excellent cups with the C40. I'm very curious about the new surprise you're working on. C50 maybe?? 😉
@@ComandanteGrinder You can't just tease this without any more information^^ Do we at least get a rough date, month? Autumn, winter? Is that the reason the C40 is mostly out of stock everywhere of just more at home coffee users and supply problems?
Thanks for the review! What grinder would you recommend for milky drinks soy mainly (medium roasts) Comandante with red clix or kinu m47 or J-max only considering the flavours, ignoring grinding time etc etc..
Great review! For all those reasons you mentioned in the video, I use C40 for pour-over, Niche Zero for espresso, and 1zpresso Q2 for travel (or work from office)
Great video! Worth the wait :). I am exactly the person you describe the Comandante to be for. I do mainly pour over now and have an electric grinder for my espresso. Just confirms I really want a Comandante. Also, the “ecosystem” is a huge plus for me. I think for more sustainable product use this is very important. It seems Comandante parts are easy to replace. Biggest downside at the moment seems to be general availability though.... it seems out of stock everywhere for over half a year now.
Thank you, helpful video. Especially your assessments and the close ups. Are you saying it becomes physically harder, need to use more force, when grinding at an espresso setting on the Comandante? Or just that it's more work because it goes more slowly and takes longer? I'm leaning toward the Comandante. I'm chasing coffee that tastes as good as it smells. Can the Commandante get me there? Even for the Flair 58? How much extra would I have to spend, which machine grinders would you suggest, to give as good or noticably better flavor in the cup, as the Comandante? Both pourover, usually Clever Dripper, and eventually I hope the Flair 58. (The Wilfa's grind distribution looks to be a massive improvement over the Comandante, right? Does the taste live up to that? But is Wilfa only for Pourover? Thanks again!
Wouldn't recommend the Comandante for Flair 58, will be very hard work. The Wilfa is modded with SSP brew burrs and can't grind for espresso. I'd probably go for the K-Max if I was you.
Grinding speed is definitely important on a hand grinder if you want to use it for espresso. I can grind 20g for the Flair 58 on my 1zpresso K-plus in 30s, and 50s on my 1Zpresso JE-plus, but over a minute it gets really hard as you will get tired. I use hand grinders for everything, so I think I'm trained a little bit more than the average person, but it's definitely something to keep in mind. Having a slimmer grinder really helps, as you don't need to squeeze as hard to prevent it from slipping.
Between those two models I found the build quality and burr stability of the K-Plus much better than the Je-Plus. Is that also your experience? I planned to use it as my main espresso grinder, leaving the K-Plus for pourover, but sold it instead.
@@victorbarroscoch the JE-plus creates more fines, but that's what gives it that creamy texture. I do like the grinding experience a bit better, because it's so super fast, even for espresso.
Comandante is working on a version with bigger burrs, Bernd Braune (the founder of Comandante) said the grind speed will be double while maintaining the grind quality. I'm crossing my fingers for a 2021 release.
Is grind speed really the thing people want though? I know I have never had an issue with the c40's ability to grind quickly. I, and I suspect most others, would be much more excited for a version that ups the grind quality, although this is hard to do in a hand grinder.
Usability is the whole reason I got the K-Plus, so I'm happy to hear that it has better usability. I personally don't have the palette or need for the slight improvement in taste that may come with the C40.
Another awesome review Asser! I’d have a last question: when it comes to espresso, flavour profile of JX and JX-Pro is identical, right ? Only difference is finer adjustments on the Pro. In this case, I understand that you prefer the C40 over the JX (Pro), when it comes to espresso taste. Am I right ? I remains super happy with my JX Pro :) and look forward to your next reviews !
Hi Asser, The problem (mentioned at 2:55) with beans getting stuck in the crevice of the handle insertion area isn't really a huge issue. Instead of "digging" the stuck bean(s) out, just cover the top of the C40 with your palm and give it a good upward jolt/shake. That'll easily dislodge any stuck bean(s). I have both JX and C40. I found that the C40 burrs generates less static. I get more coffee grounds sticking to the JX burrs after grinding, which is a bitch to clean as compared to C40.
As always, great and detailed video! I’ve had the 1ZPresso Jx for almost a year now thanks to you and I couldn’t be happier with it. As you well say, it’s well built, grinds really fast, and the grind quality it’s excellent, and of course, it’s half the price compared to the comandante;)
There's a new comer brand "Kingrinder" their highest of the series is K6, would love to hear your opinions for a comparison with Commandante. Thank you
Jeg er vild med dine videoer, ganske informative. Jeg købte en JX pro efter din anbefaling. Men jeg overvejede at købe 1ZPresso JE Plus som er deres espresso-fokuserede grinder. Jeg er rigtig glad for JX Pro, men jeg synes det er lidt træls og tidskrævende hver gang jeg skal børste kaffe resterne ud af grinderen. Har du nogen erfaring med JE Plus? jeg har ikke haft held med at finde nogle gode video reviews.
Did you compare the comandante to the old 2020 version of the k plus with the old burrs, or the newer version of the k plus? How does the newer version of the k plus stack up to the comandante for espresso and filter?
Yes, I used an older version. The newest version (I have only tried it in the form of the K Max) is on par with the C40 in terms of clarity and cup profile.
Thanks for this video! There are surprisingly low amount of comparison of C40 to newer grinders out there. I'm a bit surprised though that you compare it to the JX and not the K-Plus/Pro, given those have the same price point as the C40. Although I assume more people interested in the JX because of the much better value.
@@andreibicu5592 For espresso only the Kinu has more adjustability but the c40 with red clix makes them both basically the same in terms of performance.
You can check Simon Gautherin isntagram. He had compare kinu & comandante several times. He said that kinu is better for high acidity beans, and comandante is better for more rounded flavor and chocolaty beans. Because if he brew same beans, kinu will give more bold rounded flavor and silky texture. The comandante will give more fruity, acidity and crisp. And i had choose to bought kinu before i see his instagram.
How do you find your Zero-Point uf the Comandante? Do you start by turning the knob all the way down, till it stopped or till the point the handle can't move on its own?
Absolutely amazing review as always, I have a comandante but as u said with the click system is annoying if u dont remember your previous brew and the grind time, but the performance is excellent .
I want electric grinder for filter, is worth wilfa uniform with standard burrs (are really neccesary the ssp burrs?) or the new fellow ode? or even the niche? thank you
@@310iker The Wilfa with SSP is good but the motor is a bit underpowered. I think it's worth looking for a grinder with a stronger motor to upgrade. So DF64 or Ode is an option. Think even Feima or Xeoleo might be worth looking into.
@@310iker Not exactly sure. People seem to advise against the Ode for ssp+espresso, but I haven't heard anything regarding ssp+brew for it. Light roasts can definitely cause a bit of trouble for the Wilfa motor. Ultimately, I think they are in the same tier, and you should probably base a purchase decision on local dealers and repair options.
Have you any interest in the 1Zpresso JS series? It isn't available internationally anymore but some sifting tests have shown the tightest distribution of all the 1Zpresso grinders (and the Comandante). They made a version called the ZP6 which had the JS burs and a three pronged support rather than 2 and I can only assume greater stability and even tighter distribution.
@@coffeechronicler While 1zpresso will not sell you a JS directly, they are easy to order on Aliexpress for about $170. I have a JX now and look forward to comparing it to the JS I have ordered. The only difference between the JX and the JS is the pour over burr set in the JS.
Some thoughts and notes: Really good video. I agree entirely about your thoughts on design, ergonomics, usability, and grind quality. I have talked to Comandante about its width and setting indicator system but they were adamant that it’s fine as it is. Grind quality wise, personally it’s still clearly better than the JX for the coffees and brew style I like (higher extraction light roast pour overs) but the JX is definitely very close and the C40 is no longer worth the price premium it has over the JX. It is also no longer the best. I’m fortunate to have tried the Zp6 and JS and both offer the same profile as the C40 with a slightly tighter distribution. The increment between the JS and C40 is smaller than the C40 and JX so it’s honestly not noticeable unless you are very familiar and dialed in with the units. It’s a shame 1Zpresso is firm about pushing the K Plus as their flagship instead of the units with a burr set/grinder that is in my opinion superior to the C40. Another note that I dislike is how Comandante counts their clicks not from the tightest setting but that their “zero” is from the first click where the handle does not fall when held horizontally. They have a video about this if you haven’t seen. Overall, again just a fantastic video which covers all the important points. The C40 is the gold standard and will likely remain so despite its flaws since there isn’t something that is all these: easily accessible, more attractive, and objectively better (even marginally so).
Thanks Marc, that's good to hear! I'm also very curious about Js and hope that 1zpresso will consider bringing it to the international market. Only downside is that the burrs are also quite slow as far as I know.
The JX Pro finishes 13g in 27 turns and the C40 finishes in 52. The JS is somewhere in between at 44 turns to the Kinu M47’s 47 turns and Timemore C2’s 40 turne. I think pretty the JS should be pretty average!
Unfortunately ZP6 and JS is only available for the Asian market, I had a chat with them and they more or less made it clear they didn’t currently have any attention to launch it elsewhere.
@@mikni4069 Yup that's right. I wouldn't even call it "Asian" market. Even HK, China, have limited direct access to these unless they find a reseller. They're Taiwan exclusives entirely and the Zp6 has been since discontinued much to my personal disappointment. From my own conversation with them, they're convinced the K Plus with the intentionally wider distribution for higher complexity at lower extractions and espresso focused hand grinders are going to be their bread and butter.
@@m.andre824 I noticed the JS several places in SE Asia, So although it should be more of a Taiwan exclusive it’s easy enough to get in that region… Yeah it’s a bummer really that the K is where they decided to go, as a wider distribution (conical is already by nature more wide) just don’t go well hand in hand with the very light roast allot of us in Europe prefer. So I probably gonna see what is up in Comandante’s sleve as they seem to be the only one who truly thing about that. But I probably gonna buy some cheap 38mm while I wait.
Thanks for the review! :3 6:41 more fines? From the chart I would say more boulders, no? That's actually the coffee gear review video I was most looking forwards: Commandante vs JX
Yes, it was a mistake to say fines. This particular test only shows more grounds in the middle range. However, technically it would produce fewer fines because I can to go quite a bit coarser and retain the middle range without getting more boulders. I ran out of beans after I had tested all four grinders, and didn't want to do it all over to get the "coarser" wilfa setting :)
Hey Asser, I just wanted to comment on the fact that I am quite frankly stunned by how much better the Comandante C40 Mk4 is over the JX. I say that because the JX was already such a HUGE step up from my Baratza Encore I expected the C40 to provide an incremental improvement (at best). The step up in pour over quality is not subtle. Granted I did a/b the two grinders using a locally roasted award winning Ethiopian.
@@coffeechronicler thank you for your reply! I was looking at the 1zpresso after watching your other review. Prices are much cheaper on their Taiwanese shop though, 150 € for the k-plus.
Used the C40 for years, traveled extensively with it and never broken a glass... For Espresso the Red Clixx is excellent.... As for it being too big and too slow... Never had any problems, you just need to put some muscle into it 😉
Fair review, I am not sure I agree with you regarding issues counting each step, this isn't an issue I've had in the year I have been using it. Also, I don't find grinding difficult at all (espresso or pour-over), but this might be because I was previously using an old Orphan Espresso Lido 2 , which required much effort.
I have an aergrind that lives in my office at work and I recently purchased a Comandante in case I want to drink coffee from my Aeropress or Hario Switch at home instead of the fully automatic machine I normally use - it's good to have various options 😜. Unfortunately, I am one of those people with small hands and struggle to hold the Comandante especially when grinding brighter roasts. The Aergrind definitely fits my hand better. And there are several things that upset me with the C40, yesterday the grounds catcher got stuck to the grinder, even my father as a man struggled to unscrew it, the issue with smaller beans that end up sticking in the gap where you lock in the handle is also annoying. So I'm not entirely happy with this grinder. I'm thinking about buying a Timemore Slim+ despite the worse grind quality, but I wonder if that magnetic knob will have the tendency to fall off during the grind - and the Comandante, which I'm going to keep anyway, was expensive enough, of course.
Will you review Flair Royal grinder and LIDO OG and include their grind analysis figures? It will be interesting to know how does Flair’s execution of Etzinger burr compare to LIDO OG. BTW, I so happen own both Jx and C40, i agree every words you said. This type of review is very informative and useful. Thanks for the great work!
I went here because I found Wilfa uniform unnecessary for me and now you tell me it is best when modded. Not making this easier for me! The commandante is out of question for me as it almost same price of Wilfa Uniform and 80$ more compared to 1Zpresso JX-pro... but do i want now Uniform for 370$ or JX-pro for 240$ (commandante is around 310$/ ? Oh boy this is tough
I have a comandante with the red clix mod, though I later got a Niche Zero because hand grinding for espresso with it is too tedious. When I get a bean stuck up in the top, I hold the glass jar to the bean chamber then shake side to side. If I could do it over again I would have bought a JX I do prefer my comandante to my niche for pourovers though, imo light roasts come out more sweet with a less sharp acidity
I have tried many grinders, and Comndante is one of the best. -It is very well build and you see where your money is going - it has (very very) sharp burrs that will last for years - quality of grind is to notch, for both pour and espresso.. compared to many grinders like the niche, 1Z, and the lagom. But it needs an upgrade: - smaller steps and clear numbers (like 1Z) from factory 30 micron per step is too big for espresso. - Larger burrs for the speed, k-plus is much faster and easier.
@@coffeechronicler completely agree with the video, as I heard they will release the new grinder by the end of this year or maybe earlier 22. They need to be back with something better that the competitors.
@@tigonridge I am not sure how sharpness affect grind quality, but I can tell from my experience the comndante is a little bit better than other grinders like 1Z k-plus or timemore. 200,000 KG is not a realistic number the mazzer 191c life time is about 750KG which is still A LOT of coffee
@@Nso0or9 they have a modification kit for the comandante called the “red clix axle”. It doubles the grinding range of the grinder from 50 clicks to 100 clicks, giving even more precision for those that also want to dial for espresso.
@@luckysayshmm yes I have seen that, but I still think it is not worth it. - The price of Red clixs is not cheap -Grinding for espresso in this grinder is hard work compared to something like 1Z-Kplus
I'm also wondering that. I use a Kinu M47 right now, but I make both filter coffee and espresso with it. I have the brew burr add-on, and my filter brews are noticeably better with the brew burr, but it's too slow for espresso, so I'm swapping between the two burrs when I switch brew methods and that's a pain. The DF64 looks like a grinder that could be amazing, especially with the SSP Multipurpose burr set, but in theory I could get another hand grinder and use one for espresso and the other for filter coffee.
@@JBM12G Going from espresso to pour over and back is working very well on the DF64. The standard Italmill burrs are decent allrounders, and the SSP option is nice to have.
Wow. This experience was pretty Danish... 😃 But a nice review though. I have had my eyes on the Comandante for a while and might pull the plug, as I'm mostly an Aeropresser 😃 God dag ;-)
If 1 click changes the brew by 10 seconds, that's too course of adjustment. That's like swinging from way under extracted to overextracted. Shouldn't have to buy an additional kit just for more adjustment.
I was actually stuck between the C40 and JX Pro. I decided on the JX Pro because I honestly don't think the C40 can be 2x better when it comes to cost. I also have been using a Lido E for just over a year now with great results. The JX Pro tends to lock up a little on light roasts vs the E but i'm hoping the burrs need to be seasoned and will get better over time. I like the design better on the JX PRO vs the E. The Pro is more compact with same burr size as lido and there is near zero retention. I like the shorter arm on the E and feels like its easier to grind but then again i've been using it for more than a year and am probably just used to it. I can see that on the JX Pro it should grinder easier because of the longer arm so there will be more leverage, but haven't done back to back grinding to see which is actually faster, yet.
Has anyone investigated KINGrinder hand grinders? Seems they're only easily available in Asia right now. The K4/K6 models seem comparable to the 1Zpresso JX-Pro and K-Plus.
@@coffeechronicler Supposedly they hired 1zpresso for R&D. I'm sure since they are cheaper that they cut some corners, but maybe not affecting the taste? I'd love to see reviews. Also baristaspace pro seem nice at their price range but no reviews.
You may find that those old versions of 1Z products are all out of stock and being sold by Kinggrinder brand. The precision of Kinggrinder is not as good as those better choices
Next time , if you can get the grinder, you may try the Ling Long Versalab 40P external-control grinder. Seems like the manufacturer will sell it outside China in August. The first lot of stock has been shipping.
How can you get good flavour without any variation in grind? I use very cheap timemore that has similar clicks to it. And only one setting is good for a coffee of particular roast. Vary to dark to light and you get 3 clicks max. But for each coffee you get only one click. Shift one click and you cannot brew espresso at all (too watery or too oily). And I have tested lots for espresso ... Err actually ristroto and thousands times better than Starbucks for reference. Here is the hint: you need at least 5 clicks for a roast. Otherwise just drop it. And I doubt any of youtubers know enough about espresso otherwise they would all be millionaires by now by opening a coffee shop. Ps: I am opening one.
The one thing I don't like about some of these grinders is that the handle doesn't cam down onto the shaft, so it can wobble, esp. when dealing with super hard beans like some Yemenis. The B-Plus handle has a set screw that makes the unit solid, at the cost of some popcorning. I think if the C-40 handle simply had a 1/2 or even 1/4 turn heavy thread so turning it made it grip the shaft harder, it would be an improvement.
Got already C40/JX/DF64 and Q2 with C40 like burrs on its way to compare, and as far as I can tell c40 tastes better compare to JX(in pour overs, for espresso i like flat DF64 more than any of those), but since its not that big difference and JX grinds 2 times faster, on a bussines trip im taking JX with aeropress, great combo.
How's C40 compared to Q2 for filter coffee? Saw a chinese review comparing them the other day and the reviewer couldn't tell the test difference (He actually thought the Q2 cup was the C40). Wonder if that's really the case
@@ttgsct Since im now at business trip, and Q2 will be coming in this week im not able to tell you, but when i will be back home at two weeks i'm gonna test them hard.
Why bother with a manual grinder when for 60-70 bucks more (well at least where I live) you can find a Eureka Mignon with absolutely mental performance for its price? Ah yes. Trends.
This is the first time I've seen anyone post actual data on uniformity. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I wish more people did this, otherwise it's all subjective eyeballing.
Of all the manual grinders you've used or tested, which do you prefer for pour over from a taste perspective? And thank you for your reviews. Very helpful.
Sold off my comandante. I bought a JX pro for espresso, and a Q2 grinder with the money. Don’t really miss my comandante.
Why not get red clix mod instead?
@@Adam-vx6to I think for the price of the Comandante with red clix, I could have bought a JX and a JX Pro. I prefer to have two grinders. One for espresso, and one for filter.
@@superpogs That's fair enough honestly
@@superpogs isn't pro good for filter coffee also?
@@tomaszbejnarowicz Yes. Its good. But I rather not keep changing my grind settings between filter and espresso.
I purchased an 1ZPRESSO K-Plus a few months ago and honestly it’s phenomenal. The external numbers for grind adjustment make it an absolute breeze for switching between grind sizes. I also own the Niche Zero and if I’m being perfectly honest, I do prefer my K-Plus in regards to filter coffees. I prefer the niche for espresso. More so because hand grinding for espresso becomes a pain when you’re pulling several shots a day 🤣
Hi Asser.. wow great video about C40. On the other side, I’ve read your full review about J-Max. In the article you mentioned that for espresso, JE series or C40 is better in terms of sweetness and depth of flavor than J-Max/JX/JX-Pro. Does it mean that JE/JE-Plus is on par with C40? If yes, I’m interested in JE because it’s cheaper and I’ll use it exclusively for espresso. Do you think the JE-Plus higher price is worth buying or better stick to JE? Please kindly advise. Thank you.
Yes, I think JE is on par with C40 for espresso. It has a bit more body vs more clarity on the C40. I would probably go for basic JE for extra speed (almost 2x) and cost saving. It has less steps compared to JE Plus, but I think it's still okay for dialing in.
@@coffeechronicler Thanks for your reply. I’ll buy the basic JE as you suggested 😊
Thank you for your videos. Am i correct in understanding the JX pro is not worth it over the new JX? I'm between an 1zpresso and a commandante. it seems the commandante may not be worth twice the price. i think i may prefer going electric for that price.
Hey there Asser! Thanks so much for featuring our C40 Nitro Blade on your channel and for your well balanced review :).
I'm really happy that you love the flavour of the coffees you've brewed with your Comandante grinder -- both filter and espresso!
We never intended for our Nitro Blade burr set to be the fastest burr out there. After all, what you gain in speed you often lose elsewhere. Our burr geometry has been optimised for an excellent bean thruput with a reduced crank torque and at the same time delivering the refined particle size distribution for the best possible brewing results - we love this holistic approach to grind performance, which is particularly key for manual grinding :). Sounds like you enjoyed your cup quality too :).
We appreciate your comments about the design. I think you'll be happy to see a few things we have lined up for 2021 :).
We do absolutely love the advanced polymer engine frame though, because it allows us to use food safe stainless steel rather than aluminium, and still keep the overall weight of the grinder down and with no loss of performance or stability. Great for those looking to travel with their C40 and brew wherever :).
Thanks for your support and all the best from the team here in Munich!
Joe
Hi Joe, good to hear from you guys! Definitely had many excellent cups with the C40. I'm very curious about the new surprise you're working on. C50 maybe?? 😉
@@coffeechronicler Keep your eyes and ears open 😉😁.
Thanks for your support!
I was going to buy a C40 in a few weeks. But this made me think I should wait for the next version to come out maybe?
@@ComandanteGrinder You can't just tease this without any more information^^ Do we at least get a rough date, month? Autumn, winter? Is that the reason the C40 is mostly out of stock everywhere of just more at home coffee users and supply problems?
@@steffen4692 Hey Steffen! Please check out the latest issue of Barista Magazine ;)
Thanks for the review! What grinder would you recommend for milky drinks soy mainly (medium roasts) Comandante with red clix or kinu m47 or J-max only considering the flavours, ignoring grinding time etc etc..
Many questions i had about the C40 were answered. The chart comparison of your tests of the grinders was very interesting, Thanks.
Welcome back Asser. Glad to see you're back into the game again.
The prodigal son has returned
Great review! For all those reasons you mentioned in the video, I use C40 for pour-over, Niche Zero for espresso, and 1zpresso Q2 for travel (or work from office)
Been using comandante for 1 year, always produce great taste as long as i brewed good beans 🤣
Great video! Worth the wait :). I am exactly the person you describe the Comandante to be for. I do mainly pour over now and have an electric grinder for my espresso. Just confirms I really want a Comandante. Also, the “ecosystem” is a huge plus for me. I think for more sustainable product use this is very important. It seems Comandante parts are easy to replace. Biggest downside at the moment seems to be general availability though.... it seems out of stock everywhere for over half a year now.
Thank you, helpful video. Especially your assessments and the close ups.
Are you saying it becomes physically harder, need to use more force, when grinding at an espresso setting on the Comandante? Or just that it's more work because it goes more slowly and takes longer?
I'm leaning toward the Comandante. I'm chasing coffee that tastes as good as it smells. Can the Commandante get me there? Even for the Flair 58?
How much extra would I have to spend, which machine grinders would you suggest, to give as good or noticably better flavor in the cup, as the Comandante? Both pourover, usually Clever Dripper, and eventually I hope the Flair 58.
(The Wilfa's grind distribution looks to be a massive improvement over the Comandante, right? Does the taste live up to that? But is Wilfa only for Pourover?
Thanks again!
Wouldn't recommend the Comandante for Flair 58, will be very hard work. The Wilfa is modded with SSP brew burrs and can't grind for espresso.
I'd probably go for the K-Max if I was you.
@@coffeechronicler thank you
@@coffeechronicler Thank you.
Grinding speed is definitely important on a hand grinder if you want to use it for espresso. I can grind 20g for the Flair 58 on my 1zpresso K-plus in 30s, and 50s on my 1Zpresso JE-plus, but over a minute it gets really hard as you will get tired. I use hand grinders for everything, so I think I'm trained a little bit more than the average person, but it's definitely something to keep in mind. Having a slimmer grinder really helps, as you don't need to squeeze as hard to prevent it from slipping.
Between those two models I found the build quality and burr stability of the K-Plus much better than the Je-Plus. Is that also your experience?
I planned to use it as my main espresso grinder, leaving the K-Plus for pourover, but sold it instead.
@@victorbarroscoch the JE-plus creates more fines, but that's what gives it that creamy texture. I do like the grinding experience a bit better, because it's so super fast, even for espresso.
Dany, may I ask why you prefer hand grinding even for 58mm pf ? Is it a matter of taste, or you enjoy the process?😁
@@stemazzo84 both! I just like the full manual process.
Hi Dany. May I know your setting for the 58? Thanks!
Comandante is working on a version with bigger burrs, Bernd Braune (the founder of Comandante) said the grind speed will be double while maintaining the grind quality.
I'm crossing my fingers for a 2021 release.
That's great to hear!
Is grind speed really the thing people want though? I know I have never had an issue with the c40's ability to grind quickly. I, and I suspect most others, would be much more excited for a version that ups the grind quality, although this is hard to do in a hand grinder.
I was hoping for (meaningful) upgrade in grind quality as well with the new release hmm..
Usability is the whole reason I got the K-Plus, so I'm happy to hear that it has better usability. I personally don't have the palette or need for the slight improvement in taste that may come with the C40.
Another awesome review Asser!
I’d have a last question: when it comes to espresso, flavour profile of JX and JX-Pro is identical, right ? Only difference is finer adjustments on the Pro.
In this case, I understand that you prefer the C40 over the JX (Pro), when it comes to espresso taste. Am I right ?
I remains super happy with my JX Pro :) and look forward to your next reviews !
Yes, better taste with C40 and better adjustability with both standard Jx and Pro
@@coffeechronicler thank you Asser!
The MK4 is out, would love to know how it’ll stack up with the JX especially with speed🙏🏼
I think grinding-wise it's exactly the same. Only changes are to the catch jar and internally to prevent beans getting stuck.
Nice video, just a little correction, "Comandate" is not about latin american revolution, is just commander in spanish, wich is just a military rank.
Hi Asser,
The problem (mentioned at 2:55) with beans getting stuck in the crevice of the handle insertion area isn't really a huge issue.
Instead of "digging" the stuck bean(s) out, just cover the top of the C40 with your palm and give it a good upward jolt/shake. That'll easily dislodge any stuck bean(s).
I have both JX and C40. I found that the C40 burrs generates less static. I get more coffee grounds sticking to the JX burrs after grinding, which is a bitch to clean as compared to C40.
I love how fact-oriented this is -- many thanks, very useful indeed!
As always, great and detailed video! I’ve had the 1ZPresso Jx for almost a year now thanks to you and I couldn’t be happier with it. As you well say, it’s well built, grinds really fast, and the grind quality it’s excellent, and of course, it’s half the price compared to the comandante;)
Great to hear Gabriel!
Same here. I only use my electric grinder for larger batches anymore.
Thanks for the review! Helps me to figure out whether I should spend 4-5x more for the Comandante grinder!
Really enjoyed your review! Would you happen to have any reviews on Kalita Coffee hand grinders?
Thanks! Never saw their grinders anywhere. Wouldn't expect much of them, they seem to be very low-tech
There's a new comer brand "Kingrinder" their highest of the series is K6, would love to hear your opinions for a comparison with Commandante. Thank you
Jeg er vild med dine videoer, ganske informative. Jeg købte en JX pro efter din anbefaling. Men jeg overvejede at købe 1ZPresso JE Plus som er deres espresso-fokuserede grinder.
Jeg er rigtig glad for JX Pro, men jeg synes det er lidt træls og tidskrævende hver gang jeg skal børste kaffe resterne ud af grinderen.
Har du nogen erfaring med JE Plus? jeg har ikke haft held med at finde nogle gode video reviews.
Tak Kasper! Du kan bruge lidt RDT (et par dråber vand) for at minimere retention. Måske kommer der en JE/JE Plus video i fremtiden.
@@coffeechronicler Cheers, jeg har netop lavet en kop espresso og fulgt dit råd med de to dråber vand. Det hjalp bestemt på retention. Tak!
Thank you for the review. All points are professionally explained. I wish you continued success for you and your family
Did you compare the comandante to the old 2020 version of the k plus with the old burrs, or the newer version of the k plus? How does the newer version of the k plus stack up to the comandante for espresso and filter?
Yes, I used an older version. The newest version (I have only tried it in the form of the K Max) is on par with the C40 in terms of clarity and cup profile.
hello. will you keep the comandante c40 or prefer the JX ?
Will probably sell the C40
@@coffeechronicler sorry to hear that
Thanks for this video! There are surprisingly low amount of comparison of C40 to newer grinders out there. I'm a bit surprised though that you compare it to the JX and not the K-Plus/Pro, given those have the same price point as the C40. Although I assume more people interested in the JX because of the much better value.
I did a poll and most people wanted a Jx comparison. If you check out my K Plus video, you can kinda deduce how it compare to the C40.
Thanks for the update. Great thorough review, as always. 👍🏼
What about "KINU M47", can you compare these two as well?
I am also interested about a comparison between these two. Which one is better in terms of shot quality?
@@andreibicu5592 For espresso only the Kinu has more adjustability but the c40 with red clix makes them both basically the same in terms of performance.
You can check Simon Gautherin isntagram. He had compare kinu & comandante several times.
He said that kinu is better for high acidity beans, and comandante is better for more rounded flavor and chocolaty beans. Because if he brew same beans, kinu will give more bold rounded flavor and silky texture. The comandante will give more fruity, acidity and crisp.
And i had choose to bought kinu before i see his instagram.
How do you find your Zero-Point uf the Comandante? Do you start by turning the knob all the way down, till it stopped or till the point the handle can't move on its own?
Great video! Would love to see your take on a review of the DF64
Absolutely amazing review as always, I have a comandante but as u said with the click system is annoying if u dont remember your previous brew and the grind time, but the performance is excellent .
I want electric grinder for filter, is worth wilfa uniform with standard burrs (are really neccesary the ssp burrs?) or the new fellow ode? or even the niche? thank you
@@310iker The Wilfa with SSP is good but the motor is a bit underpowered. I think it's worth looking for a grinder with a stronger motor to upgrade. So DF64 or Ode is an option. Think even Feima or Xeoleo might be worth looking into.
@@coffeechronicler ode > wilfa uniform?
@@310iker Doubtful
@@310iker Not exactly sure. People seem to advise against the Ode for ssp+espresso, but I haven't heard anything regarding ssp+brew for it. Light roasts can definitely cause a bit of trouble for the Wilfa motor. Ultimately, I think they are in the same tier, and you should probably base a purchase decision on local dealers and repair options.
The MK4 uses the same conical burr as MK3. The result looks identical. I don't really like the plastic container because it made more statics.
Have you any interest in the 1Zpresso JS series? It isn't available internationally anymore but some sifting tests have shown the tightest distribution of all the 1Zpresso grinders (and the Comandante). They made a version called the ZP6 which had the JS burs and a three pronged support rather than 2 and I can only assume greater stability and even tighter distribution.
Would love to test it! Hopefully 1Zpresso will launch the JS or something similar internationally.
@@coffeechronicler While 1zpresso will not sell you a JS directly, they are easy to order on Aliexpress for about $170. I have a JX now and look forward to comparing it to the JS I have ordered. The only difference between the JX and the JS is the pour over burr set in the JS.
Some thoughts and notes:
Really good video. I agree entirely about your thoughts on design, ergonomics, usability, and grind quality. I have talked to Comandante about its width and setting indicator system but they were adamant that it’s fine as it is.
Grind quality wise, personally it’s still clearly better than the JX for the coffees and brew style I like (higher extraction light roast pour overs) but the JX is definitely very close and the C40 is no longer worth the price premium it has over the JX. It is also no longer the best. I’m fortunate to have tried the Zp6 and JS and both offer the same profile as the C40 with a slightly tighter distribution. The increment between the JS and C40 is smaller than the C40 and JX so it’s honestly not noticeable unless you are very familiar and dialed in with the units. It’s a shame 1Zpresso is firm about pushing the K Plus as their flagship instead of the units with a burr set/grinder that is in my opinion superior to the C40.
Another note that I dislike is how Comandante counts their clicks not from the tightest setting but that their “zero” is from the first click where the handle does not fall when held horizontally. They have a video about this if you haven’t seen.
Overall, again just a fantastic video which covers all the important points. The C40 is the gold standard and will likely remain so despite its flaws since there isn’t something that is all these: easily accessible, more attractive, and objectively better (even marginally so).
Thanks Marc, that's good to hear! I'm also very curious about Js and hope that 1zpresso will consider bringing it to the international market. Only downside is that the burrs are also quite slow as far as I know.
The JX Pro finishes 13g in 27 turns and the C40 finishes in 52. The JS is somewhere in between at 44 turns to the Kinu M47’s 47 turns and Timemore C2’s 40 turne. I think pretty the JS should be pretty average!
Unfortunately ZP6 and JS is only available for the Asian market, I had a chat with them and they more or less made it clear they didn’t currently have any attention to launch it elsewhere.
@@mikni4069 Yup that's right. I wouldn't even call it "Asian" market. Even HK, China, have limited direct access to these unless they find a reseller. They're Taiwan exclusives entirely and the Zp6 has been since discontinued much to my personal disappointment. From my own conversation with them, they're convinced the K Plus with the intentionally wider distribution for higher complexity at lower extractions and espresso focused hand grinders are going to be their bread and butter.
@@m.andre824 I noticed the JS several places in SE Asia, So although it should be more of a Taiwan exclusive it’s easy enough to get in that region… Yeah it’s a bummer really that the K is where they decided to go, as a wider distribution (conical is already by nature more wide) just don’t go well hand in hand with the very light roast allot of us in Europe prefer. So I probably gonna see what is up in Comandante’s sleve as they seem to be the only one who truly thing about that. But I probably gonna buy some cheap 38mm while I wait.
Thanks for the review! :3 6:41 more fines? From the chart I would say more boulders, no?
That's actually the coffee gear review video I was most looking forwards: Commandante vs JX
Yes, it was a mistake to say fines. This particular test only shows more grounds in the middle range. However, technically it would produce fewer fines because I can to go quite a bit coarser and retain the middle range without getting more boulders. I ran out of beans after I had tested all four grinders, and didn't want to do it all over to get the "coarser" wilfa setting :)
@@coffeechronicler how C40 compared with 1zpresso kplus?
@@rizkyeka92 Jx and K Plus performs very similar in sifting. But the taste is different.
@@rizkyeka92 I had this question for a few days, I spoke to many ~ and I'm told, both will get you there - a Ferrari as well as a Toyota.
@@coffeechronicler Can you elaborate on the taste difference?
Hey Asser, I just wanted to comment on the fact that I am quite frankly stunned by how much better the Comandante C40 Mk4 is over the JX. I say that because the JX was already such a HUGE step up from my Baratza Encore I expected the C40 to provide an incremental improvement (at best). The step up in pour over quality is not subtle. Granted I did a/b the two grinders using a locally roasted award winning Ethiopian.
What would be a good grinder mostly for espresso, moka and aeropress? I was thinking the kinu simplicity, commandante also good, any alternative?
Yeah, those grinders would be good. 1zpresso JE and Jx can also handle it fine. Timemore Slim Plus if only brewing Moka and Aeropress.
@@coffeechronicler thank you for your reply! I was looking at the 1zpresso after watching your other review. Prices are much cheaper on their Taiwanese shop though, 150 € for the k-plus.
Been waiting for this for months! :) Think I'll wait for the new Ode revision then
do you know the date of that version?
When will it happen?
Used the C40 for years, traveled extensively with it and never broken a glass... For Espresso the Red Clixx is excellent.... As for it being too big and too slow... Never had any problems, you just need to put some muscle into it 😉
Fair review, I am not sure I agree with you regarding issues counting each step, this isn't an issue I've had in the year I have been using it. Also, I don't find grinding difficult at all (espresso or pour-over), but this might be because I was previously using an old Orphan Espresso Lido 2 , which required much effort.
JX all the way (if you need a reliable, affordable hand grinder)
I got a JX pro because it was cheaper and allegedly just as good for quality and I've been happy with my purchase.
I have an aergrind that lives in my office at work and I recently purchased a Comandante in case I want to drink coffee from my Aeropress or Hario Switch at home instead of the fully automatic machine I normally use - it's good to have various options 😜. Unfortunately, I am one of those people with small hands and struggle to hold the Comandante especially when grinding brighter roasts. The Aergrind definitely fits my hand better. And there are several things that upset me with the C40, yesterday the grounds catcher got stuck to the grinder, even my father as a man struggled to unscrew it, the issue with smaller beans that end up sticking in the gap where you lock in the handle is also annoying. So I'm not entirely happy with this grinder. I'm thinking about buying a Timemore Slim+ despite the worse grind quality, but I wonder if that magnetic knob will have the tendency to fall off during the grind - and the Comandante, which I'm going to keep anyway, was expensive enough, of course.
Is the Comandante a significant improvement over the Aergrind, do you think?
@@ChrisinHove Grind quality is probably better but I haven't analyzed it.
Will you review Flair Royal grinder and LIDO OG and include their grind analysis figures? It will be interesting to know how does Flair’s execution of Etzinger burr compare to LIDO OG. BTW, I so happen own both Jx and C40, i agree every words you said. This type of review is very informative and useful. Thanks for the great work!
I went here because I found Wilfa uniform unnecessary for me and now you tell me it is best when modded. Not making this easier for me! The commandante is out of question for me as it almost same price of Wilfa Uniform and 80$ more compared to 1Zpresso JX-pro... but do i want now Uniform for 370$ or JX-pro for 240$ (commandante is around 310$/ ? Oh boy this is tough
I have a comandante with the red clix mod, though I later got a Niche Zero because hand grinding for espresso with it is too tedious.
When I get a bean stuck up in the top, I hold the glass jar to the bean chamber then shake side to side.
If I could do it over again I would have bought a JX
I do prefer my comandante to my niche for pourovers though, imo light roasts come out more sweet with a less sharp acidity
So.... how well does the Comandante measure up against the Kinu M47?
That's a topic for another video :)
I’d love to hear about the comparison for espresso between the Commandante with the 1zpresso JE Plus
Maybe in the future!
Best thing about 1zpresso is you can use electric drill on it to grind beans.
Thats a shitty solution imo
I’m glad I got the K-Plus.
I have tried many grinders, and Comndante is one of the best.
-It is very well build and you see where your money is going
- it has (very very) sharp burrs that will last for years
- quality of grind is to notch, for both pour and espresso.. compared to many grinders like the niche, 1Z, and the lagom.
But it needs an upgrade:
- smaller steps and clear numbers (like 1Z) from factory 30 micron per step is too big for espresso.
- Larger burrs for the speed, k-plus is much faster and easier.
Exactly my thoughts. The adjustment dial should be an easy upgrade for a potential Mk4
@@coffeechronicler completely agree with the video, as I heard they will release the new grinder by the end of this year or maybe earlier 22. They need to be back with something better that the competitors.
@@tigonridge I am not sure how sharpness affect grind quality, but I can tell from my experience the comndante is a little bit better than other grinders like 1Z k-plus or timemore.
200,000 KG is not a realistic number the mazzer 191c life time is about 750KG which is still A LOT of coffee
@@Nso0or9 they have a modification kit for the comandante called the “red clix axle”. It doubles the grinding range of the grinder from 50 clicks to 100 clicks, giving even more precision for those that also want to dial for espresso.
@@luckysayshmm yes I have seen that, but I still think it is not worth it.
- The price of Red clixs is not cheap
-Grinding for espresso in this grinder is hard work compared to something like 1Z-Kplus
Is your DF64 with the regular burr set?
I'm also wondering that. I use a Kinu M47 right now, but I make both filter coffee and espresso with it. I have the brew burr add-on, and my filter brews are noticeably better with the brew burr, but it's too slow for espresso, so I'm swapping between the two burrs when I switch brew methods and that's a pain. The DF64 looks like a grinder that could be amazing, especially with the SSP Multipurpose burr set, but in theory I could get another hand grinder and use one for espresso and the other for filter coffee.
Yes, regular Italmill
@@JBM12G Going from espresso to pour over and back is working very well on the DF64. The standard Italmill burrs are decent allrounders, and the SSP option is nice to have.
How come no Kinu review yet?
Throw some brew burrs into the DF64!
Nicely done.
Wow. This experience was pretty Danish... 😃
But a nice review though. I have had my eyes on the Comandante for a while and might pull the plug, as I'm mostly an Aeropresser 😃
God dag ;-)
Tak Johnny, I can't hide the denglish accent lol :)
@@coffeechronicler Non of us can 🤣 It's like a secret order. A seal of aproval if you will. 😉
If 1 click changes the brew by 10 seconds, that's too course of adjustment. That's like swinging from way under extracted to overextracted. Shouldn't have to buy an additional kit just for more adjustment.
Ideally yes... But you can kinda make up for it with dosing, tamping and recipe
Still love it. This is THE manual grinder that u need to pull the best out from coffee 🤤
I was actually stuck between the C40 and JX Pro. I decided on the JX Pro because I honestly don't think the C40 can be 2x better when it comes to cost. I also have been using a Lido E for just over a year now with great results. The JX Pro tends to lock up a little on light roasts vs the E but i'm hoping the burrs need to be seasoned and will get better over time.
I like the design better on the JX PRO vs the E. The Pro is more compact with same burr size as lido and there is near zero retention. I like the shorter arm on the E and feels like its easier to grind but then again i've been using it for more than a year and am probably just used to it. I can see that on the JX Pro it should grinder easier because of the longer arm so there will be more leverage, but haven't done back to back grinding to see which is actually faster, yet.
Also had a Lido and find the longer handles on Jx/C40 a lot better for leverage once you get a bit of muscle memory
Has anyone investigated KINGrinder hand grinders? Seems they're only easily available in Asia right now. The K4/K6 models seem comparable to the 1Zpresso JX-Pro and K-Plus.
I think they are lower quality versions. As far as I know they are produced by a former 1z employee.
@@coffeechronicler Supposedly they hired 1zpresso for R&D. I'm sure since they are cheaper that they cut some corners, but maybe not affecting the taste? I'd love to see reviews. Also baristaspace pro seem nice at their price range but no reviews.
You may find that those old versions of 1Z products are all out of stock and being sold by Kinggrinder brand. The precision of Kinggrinder is not as good as those better choices
Next time , if you can get the grinder, you may try the Ling Long Versalab 40P external-control grinder. Seems like the manufacturer will sell it outside China in August. The first lot of stock has been shipping.
How can you get good flavour without any variation in grind?
I use very cheap timemore that has similar clicks to it. And only one setting is good for a coffee of particular roast. Vary to dark to light and you get 3 clicks max. But for each coffee you get only one click. Shift one click and you cannot brew espresso at all (too watery or too oily).
And I have tested lots for espresso ... Err actually ristroto and thousands times better than Starbucks for reference.
Here is the hint: you need at least 5 clicks for a roast. Otherwise just drop it. And I doubt any of youtubers know enough about espresso otherwise they would all be millionaires by now by opening a coffee shop.
Ps: I am opening one.
DF64 and wifa are flat burrs and I don't see how this can be fair to compare grind distribution to a hand conical burr grinder.
Wilfa classic has conical burrs
The one thing I don't like about some of these grinders is that the handle doesn't cam down onto the shaft, so it can wobble, esp. when dealing with super hard beans like some Yemenis. The B-Plus handle has a set screw that makes the unit solid, at the cost of some popcorning. I think if the C-40 handle simply had a 1/2 or even 1/4 turn heavy thread so turning it made it grip the shaft harder, it would be an improvement.
Would not change my 1Zpresso Kplus
Got already C40/JX/DF64 and Q2 with C40 like burrs on its way to compare, and as far as I can tell c40 tastes better compare to JX(in pour overs, for espresso i like flat DF64 more than any of those), but since its not that big difference and JX grinds 2 times faster, on a bussines trip im taking JX with aeropress, great combo.
How's C40 compared to Q2 for filter coffee? Saw a chinese review comparing them the other day and the reviewer couldn't tell the test difference (He actually thought the Q2 cup was the C40). Wonder if that's really the case
@@ttgsct Since im now at business trip, and Q2 will be coming in this week im not able to tell you, but when i will be back home at two weeks i'm gonna test them hard.
What about the new Timemore Chestnut X? With expresso burr and two adjustments. Anybody tested it?
I have both👌
As a commie, myself, I appreciate the name
Please review Timemore Chestnut X!
So far I'm not really convinced about the X. It also seems to be quite slow like the C40.
For You, which one is better? Comandante or 1zpresso Q2?
They are too different for a meaningful comparison, I think.
➡ *MORE details here* coffeechronicler.com/comandante-c40-review/
DF64 SSP burr vid ?
Yes :)
2021- lets review manual grinders
Ahhhh… sweet acidity
Know it sounds a bit weird 😅
Total danglish dér, kaffemester
Why bother with a manual grinder when for 60-70 bucks more (well at least where I live) you can find a Eureka Mignon with absolutely mental performance for its price? Ah yes. Trends.
If we're talking espresso, then I tend to agree. But for other styles of coffee, manual grinding has some clear benefits.
i think speed test is rubbish. Straight away i can see movement of your hand is much faster on 1zpresso
I'm sad you think it's rubbish. Have you considered that the ergonomics of the handle might make it possible to operate the Jx faster than the C40?