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Comandante C40 Mk4 vs 1Zpresso J-Max vs. 1Zpresso K-Plus Coffee Hand Grinder Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 7 янв 2022
- The ultimate comparison of the best hand grinders available right now, looking at the most recent Comandante c40 Mk4 going up against the best of the 1Zpresso range. Shop Hand Grinders: alternativebrewing.com.au/col...
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Comandante C40 Mk4 Grinder: alternativebrewing.com.au/pro...
1Zpresso J-Max Grinder: alternativebrewing.com.au/pro...
1Zpresso K-Plus Grinder: alternativebrewing.com.au/pro...
0:54 Dimensions
1:07 Grind Adjustment
1:23 Accessories
2:05 Sifting Results - Filter Grinds
3:40 Taste Results - Filter Coffee
5:54 Espresso Workflow Results
10:34 Taste Results - Espresso
11:54 Summary
There were further tests carried out over the course of creating the video, mainly brewing with different coffees, (Blends & other Single Origins) for Espresso and Filter Coffee. These results ran parallel to the shared findings so it was decided not to extend the length of the video, and avoid repeating the results.
One result that should be mentioned is that differently aged coffee required different grind sizes - and in some cases, mainly in fresher than 5 days old roasts, all grinders used an Espresso grind size that was found within their respective recommended ranges for espresso grinding.
4kgs of coffee was used in the making of this video. - My forearms are tired, sore and ready for rest. Looking forward to getting back to Automatic Grinders for a while! 😀
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#alternativebrewing #handgrinders #comparison
Great review. I happen to own two of those grinders (K-Plus and C40 Mk 4). My taste bud is not that finely tuned for espresso, so I couldn't comment on the subtle distinction between their results. One thing that I could comment on after using K-Plus for about 3 years and C40 for about a year is the ease of maintenance. 1zpresso use of external grind adjustment, while convenient, does complicate cleaning. If you notice, there's a gap that opens and closes depending on your grind setting (it opens up as the grind size gets coarser). If you like to blow air while holding the grinder upside down after brewing to eliminate the remaining coffee dust, you should remember to lock the grinder to 0 to make sure no coffee dust would be trapped inside this gap. Once you get coffee there, it's practically impossible to get out. Even if you're careful, there's still a chance that you could get coffee particles there and over time this could cause the mechanism to jam. Even if you disassemble the grinder and clean it manually, it's still a challenge because the bean chamber is so slim and as far as I know, there's no mechanism to remove the outer burr in the bottom to accommodate a cleaning brush. Being a simpler construction and having a wider body makes C40 an easier grinder to clean and maintain and could add points towards its longevity.
Hey there Joshua, glad to hear you love the taste profile of your C40 Mk4 Nitro Blade! Thanks for your support and all the best from Munich.
Just got my K-plus for my E61 machine. The very first grind setting was 2.5 with 17g beans. Nothing came out from the shot.
I changed the setting to 2.8 with 17g beans. Same result as 1st shot. Not a single drop.
My 3rd shot worked well with 3.5 grind setting with 17g beans. I successfully produced 35g of espresso within 30s.
My advice for those one wants to get a hand of K-Plus is to use more coarse grind setting first. Then gradually adjust to finer setting.
I just took delivery of the K-Plus. Wow! I finally understand why people go to the trouble of hand grinding. Makes such a nice cup, I'm so pleased with the build quality and ease of use. Thanks AB.
Right on!
I have K plus and Comandante MK4. I will vote for MK4. I tried both of them for v60 and espresso. For pour over, I have to say MK4 really delivered the cup with the highest complexity. For espresso, for the same recipe, I think K plus brought more texture than MK4. However, MK4 still showed more complexity. What I think k plus really stands out is the grinding speed for espresso. Super fast! But I personally don’t mind spending more time on grinding.
Grinding speed can be bypassed with the Black Crank, an addition to MK4 which is sold separately. In my opinion it is much much easier and faster than the original crank.
I had the 3 at a time, you got it right the jmax brings acidity up front and yes to get the right setting is a hell of a job.
Kplus was my grinder of choice for almost a year , then mk4 came, I have used the comandante for the last 3 months twice daily and still I have this feeling that wants me to go back to the Kplus, don’t get me wrong is a super grinder but Kplus produces less fines, is more consistent and adds this delicate touch of acidity that comandante does not.
thanks!
Same. After having the k plus and the c40 mk4 I vote the k plus
Would you still choose the k plus over the c40 if only using for filter/drip coffee? Just based on flavor in cup which would you choose? Thanks!
@@gregoryrobak456 go for c40 for drip coffee.
@@gregoryrobak456 having both, side by side, I vote K series anyday. C40 is amazing but at this level it all comes down to personal preference. I like sweetness over acidity. So for me, pour over & drip, K series all the way.
Its all about the burr grinder edge retention after years. Its Comandante for me 👌👌👌
That's a great point ! Comandante would be superior in this department for sre!
If you plan to keep the same grinder for years, yeah, maybe. 1Z burrs are designed to stay sharp and crisp for up to 200kg of coffee. Even for Nordic people (11kg of coffee per year on avg/person) it would take a long time before you notice a difference in your burrs.
The superb nitro blade from comandante is amazing and given you're grinding coffee and not rocks it would take at least a century to wear out the burrs!
Thanks for this! I just bought a k plus, I was tossing up between it and the j and commandante and this further informs my opinion.
Great to hear!
Just a small note the 1zpresso grind settings can be confusing.
The recommended range for espresso is from 1 rotation (90 clicks) to 150 clicks. So that's actually 60 grind settings for espresso (1 rotation and the number 6).
your right! Thanks that correct - between each first and second number, ("1"."3".6) there is 10 settings - and this number in shown as the third number in the series - ("6")
Hitting like to reward you for straight up just telling us which one you are going to pick ☺️
That brewed coffee comparison was very strange and it would in no way be indicative of the character of each grinder. You took the time to dial in the espresso, why wouldn't you do the same with the pour-over?
That's fair. TBH, I don't 100% trust my abilities around dialling in V60 pour-overs, to recipe or taste. So I approached it as controlled as I could. I did have the option to use a Moccamaster instead, perhaps hoping to match grind sizes as close as I could - but opted to hand pour them in a V60 instead. What tests would you suggest might be a good way to uncover the character of a grinder?
@@AlternativeBrewing A cupping perhaps? But also there's nothing wrong with a pour-over, it was just a weird decision to not use the coffee grounds from each grinder in their entirety. I've never seen that done before.
@@bluemystic7501 totally - I understand that. I know - it's not something normally done. As well - you'd also be correct in saying it might be more like I'm tasting the particular distribution rather than the grinders capabilities.
My thoughts behind it were - I don't have a TDS metre - where I would prefer to brew a 20-21% extraction with each grinder... the work back being I would have to dial in each grinder in order to obtain the 20-21% extraction rate - thus controlling the grind size in retrospect of the ideal extraction rate, but this being a more conclusive results for parallel flavour.
With the KRUVE - I hoped to be able to control the extraction by controlling the grind size, and getting to a similar point with parallel flavours across the Grinders - but again you're right - not necessarily in the native, everyday use of each grinder. Where as with the TDS metre, it kind of does.
I will do a cupping with the Niche and Eureka though - perhaps a similar test to the one above too. Yet to get a TDS meter for the next one
@@bluemystic7501 He did do a cupping tasting for each one, though.
@@abueloraton He didn't do a traditional cupping, he did pour-overs.
I've been waiting this! Really glad to see the K-Series take the win. ;-)
Such great reviews + on all the products I actually want to see/compare. Thank you!!☕️☕️☕️
Yay! Thank you!
I really enjoy watching your videos! Very well structured, informative and very detailed but explained in a very engaging way. Subscribed!
Awesome, thank you!
The comandante is often sold out or marked up in price. So I ordered the J max. Hope its worth it.
HI MATE, how was your experience with the J Max? For me the c40 is too expensive and i cannot find the k max. cheers
FYI. Mazzer is preparing to launch his very first hand grinder, called Omega. Per my understanding, price range should be similar with C40 and Kinu M47.
You might see new Mazzer grinder within 2 months, I believe. Would definitely love to see a comparison with K-plus, C40 and M47. ^^
Thanks for the info!
Dang, and I just bought an mk4 last night! Definitely should have considered the K plus
What brew method are you doing?
make sure you get the red clix if u do Espresso. It's a necessity
@@EvilBambo0 you can fix the gap with the dose until you get the red-clicks
@@peterr8538 that works too or wait 2 days for beans lol
@2b 1a ... 100% you can! I was close to ading in this in the video - that it isn't too far off adjusting something else in your recipe to get the results your after. It's not all grind size dependant 😀
I have Kplus and C40 and I do prefer 1z.
Great Video! I just wanted to add, JMAX is a great coffee grinder and I enjoy making my pour overs with it!
Thanks for sharing!
I love my comandante. Even though I prefer the coffee from my lagom p64 with unimodal burrs, I will never be disappointed by a dialed-in comandante coffee.
Thanks. I didn't know the J-Max would emphasize the fruity aspect of the flavor. I'm not into accentuated fruitiness, so I most likely need a K-Plus.
Your decision to not attempt to match each grinder for grind size on filter is very odd. Artificially creating a distribution is going to give artificial results. Ideally all of the data would be displayed on the same screen from all the grinders as it was hard to compare your results without going back and forth. Appreciate you taking the time to experiment, just giving some feedback. Cheers
thanks so much - you're right - I'll include all data on the one screen for next time 😀
I already have C40 Mk III, decided I do not need the Mk IV, but have been researching K Plus. I don't use my C40 for espresso. I like your procedures, although another reviewer using Kruve, found that C40 had a slightly better sift but very close to K Plus, and in his review he preferred the taste produced by C40 but again, both were good. And I understood your review as saying C40 for pour over had the best flavor for pour over, although close. Your conclusion was positive and fair for C40, and since the K Plus is basically comparable, it is better value at lower price. I did read (I think on reddit) that it seemed that a lot of folks were having problems finding zero and setting 1zpresso grinders up correctly. Any comment on that? I also note that reviewers in the past would complain about the plastic lid on C40 as making it seem cheaper, but I understand the K Plus has similar plastic lid, and I haven't heard anyone comment negatively about that, curious! Overall good and fair review IMO, and since I already have C40, I saw nothing regarding the K Plus that would urge me to buy it. PS IMO the one (& only?) fault with C40 its diameter is a tad too wide, making the grind somewhat more uncomfortable that it would be if it were somewhat narrower, K Plus wins on that point.
Hey, thanks so much for your input! yeah 100% agree on all your finding too. TBH there's no case to go out and buy another Hand Grinder over and above one that you already own - if it is in that price bracket of say $200-250 AUD or more. (depending on whether it's Espresso or Filter you brew more often) - as the flavour differences alone are not enough that I would say you're completely missing out on a great coffee experience. I did not want to make the case you need to upgrade from any one of these grinders to another at all. Comandante are great grinders - without a doubt, the sexiest HG there is IMO. The clear plastic lid, I care not about - but the underbelly Grind Adjustment - with the clicks and no markings, is at a disadvantage, say if you are looking to buy a new grinder and comparing it to something like the 1zpresso grind adjustments, which I find superior. However, yes - there has been some instances where any one of the 1zpresso Grinders adjustments have become awkwardly stuck or slipped from Zero - mostly whilst cleaning and trying to re-calibrate. They are not simple designs in the mechanism and relies on multiple rings, locking nuts and ball bearings - whereas the Comandante is a fairly straightforward design in this way. I too find the Comandante slightly too thick for a comfortable hold, especially with back to back Espresso grinding.
In a previous video you said you would prefer the J-Max because you travel and want espresso most often. Have you changed your mind? I am looking for either the J-Max (and can wait for it to be in stock) or the K-Plus. I do 60% espresso with a Cafelat Robot, 20% pour over, and 20% AeroPress.
Yeah - It's true. I have the Jmax at home in fact. It's in my Travel bag - but I don't use it everyday. I was quite surprised when I began tasting the coffees side by side, with the differences the grinders produced. You take the Jmax out of that context, and just brew a few coffee - and I haven't had any reason to doubt it - other than the dialling in difficulties have been a little tedious. So I would say, it would not be my pick for multiple brew methods - the K-plus would be much better suited to this - with an easier time getting to the right grind settings quickly and of course the benefits of a more complex brewed coffee.
I upgraded my Baratza encore to K-plus. Now I don't look to the back. Why not Comandante? Because k-plus has a much better click system, full metal body and quickly grinding.
100% 👌
I have Comandante C40mk4 & J-Max. If I had to choose b/w them I would choose C40Mk4 ANY DAY!
However, J-Max is almost 30% cheaper and grinds MUCH faster, but Comandante does it BEST !!!
actionly, it's like 40% nowdays. And the k-pro is the cheapest
I have the C40 Mk3, I use it for V60 and moka pot, I am thinking of selling it and geting the K-plus... what do you think?
@@-ahmad-6090 it's really hard to beat the C40 for pour over but K series produce less fines, are easier to set and much faster. IMO it comes down to personal preference, both the C40 and the K series produce superb coffee
@@-ahmad-6090 I wouldn't sell C40. After some months of usage I enjoyed even more J-Max, especially with a sifter to remove the fine particles!
The main reason to buy it was the titanium coated burr - with the expectation of longevity and the 30% price diff compared to C40mk4.
I still enjoy the best, the absurdly short grind times to with it.
K series don't have titanium coating -> the main reason I didn't buy one and also they're strictly forbidden to clean with water.
Great review! I'd love to see a comparison of the Niche vs the best hand grinders. No one seems to have done one.
Thanks! ok 😀
10:02 -- now I want to see the outtakes of the other grinders' catch cups. ;)
Legit! 😂
Love the comandante made in Germany
James Hoffman is rolling over in his channel at the espresso swirling right now...
... was I meant to stir? ;)
Ya I can’t decide if I want a new hand grinder or an electric … varia hand grinder now but I’m starting to hate the morning effort. VS3 or a fellow ode gen 2 or one of these 1zespresso
I bought the kinu m47 on your recommendation. Still trying to get the hang of espresso. Thanks for the advice.
hey there! If there's anything I can help with, let me know 😀
Everybody prefers high uniformity grinders but most of the people loves juicy coffee and I think best uniformity is not perfect for a most juicy coffee. Is this correct? J-max producing more fines but also creating more juicy cup. I have Timemore C2 and 1zpresso K-Pro. I think C2 produces much more fines than K-Pro but creates brighter acidity and K-Pro much more sweeter and cleaner.
When we're talking about personal flavour preference - thats quite subjective. Important to note - the coffee I was using (a Washed Kenyan ) is a naturally juicy coffee - so there was expectations in how it should taste. Higher Uniformity will brew cleaner, more transparent flavours, often with very good balance of acidity and sweetness, but can also jeopardise the body. I do believe we all want coffee that tastes like something distinctly , rather than generic coffee flavour- but this Higher Uniformity may work against you in some scenarios - say you're brewing a Bolder blended espresso roast - and searching for more darker, more heavier flavours - than actually having a bi-modal grinding distribution with some fines, assists in a little bit of perceived over-extraction - adding to the body, texture and lingering mouthfeel - think Dark Chocolate, Honey, Nougat, Burnt Caramel ect ... You can get these flavours with the HU grind distribution, but I would say it's more pronounced or more enjoyable with the Bi-modal burrs, and the reverse is true as well - but that sentence again is subjective 😂
I'm not too sure what makes the Jmax tend to brew Bright coffee - considering it makes more fines - and have considered Burr Geometry to be a factor towards, not only the grind distribution, but the particular shape of the grind particles that the burrs create. Even though they may be the same grind size, different shaped grinds will extract differently. This is a whole other area that is out of reach from the tools I have to access grinds right now - but you gotta appreciate the depth of what is possibly affecting the flavours we taste in coffee.
Would love to see review from you of Timemkre c3
Great sharing, thank you so much for making this video!
My pleasure!
I love the polymer Commandante bean cups. Are the bean cups from the commandante interchangeable with 1zpresso JX?
Great Review as always! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have a C40 and i use it daily for espresso. I agree with the setting...i often use 5 clicks which is way finer that what they recommend.
I must say I love the espresso it produces and I don't mind putting some effort into the grinding process though.
Hi Martin. How does C40 perform for milky drinks?
@@neiljohnson2505 for me is my daily driver for cappuchinos. I added the black crank and even though it costs a lot, I have to admit it makes the whole process way easier.
Now, there are some electric options for the same price that may be better and faster for daily milky drinks
very scientific way of comparing the 3. Kurve distribution with percentage tells alot about each grinder's characteristics than alot of other subjective methods. Respect to the dedication of hand grinding 4kg of beans, good workout indeed!
He dialed in the espresso by 'subjective methods' though.
Thanks!
I used a base espresso recipe to compare the performance of the three grinders. The recipe was the control there. I agree, the taste of the coffees, was subjective though. Thankfully it was reflected in the Filter taste tests too, again using the Kenyan coffee. Blends were a little more subtle to communicate.
plus if you haven't hit that LIKE button, what are you waiting for?
saying that at the head of the video? Obviously I am waiting for the end of the video THEN I decide if I liked it or not.
that's fair enough! So assumptious of me 😂
@@AlternativeBrewing 👍🏻I normally hit the stop button when I hear that before I get to watch the contents. Many people do. I continued because it was about coffee, and I LIKED it. I just assume you want your viewers to acutually watch what you create.
Hey Josh great vid as always….. what’s your view on the new Mazzer Omega noticed they are all sold out….. any good for AeroPress and French Press which will be my preferred method of use? Any advise would be really welcome
Hey Mark! Sorry - not sold out - there's just no availability to have "coming soon' on the product page. It is expected to land in the 3rd Quarter of 2022. Certainly be one to look out for
Brother .. I don’t know what is the different between K plus and K max .. can you tell me what is the different and which of them is better for filter coffee use. Thanks
Don't you think that difference in MK3 vs MK4 is caused by the new catch cup material, having more static, which messes up particle distribution? As Comandante claim that the burrs are not changed in any way, that really makes you think.
that's really interesting. I'm curious how this impacts the grind - but I'll do test with the older catch cups on the newer model body 👍
They changed the burr. They physically different and taste different, too.
Thanks for the video. I'm unable to decide whether to go with the K Max or comandante. In my country (Czechia) they are the same price. I mostly do moka pot and filter and I'm looking for something that's gonna last for as many years as possible. Which one would you buy?
Both! haha that's a hard one. I'd go the Comandante here - will be easier to dial in brews on both those methods, look beautiful and lasts a life time 👌
Hello Joshua, I have a Bialetti Moka pot and a Brikka pot. I was always going to choose between the J-Max and the K-Max. My only concern is the magnetic catch cup. How secure is it? With a threaded or bayonet type screw, you know that isn't going to come off easily whilst grinding. With the magnetic cup, I have doubts about that.
Because I am left handed, the grinder will be going "backwards" for me, since the burrs are for RH use. This makes grinding a bit more awkward and not as smooth. Does shaking these grinders shake the cup off the grinder?
hey there 😀 No, less on the Jmax than on the Kplus. So the JMax has the updated magnetical catch cup that cannot be easily bumped, whereas the Kplus has one that can. For your Moka Pot, Id recommend the Jmax
Get an Orphan OG: I have had many hand grinders (current is OG and Option-O Remi with contemporary burrs): the OG is a better grinder than my Niche or Ode with SSP, and allows absolutely surgical precision on repeatability.
Thanks for turning me onto the OG. Will cancel my Niche order and get the OG instead, if you can kindly point out what it’s better. I only make Aeropress and espresso - no filter or whatever.
Except it’s the size of your forearm and you can’t fit it comfortably in a cabinet standing up.
How much pump pressure do you have your Rancilio set at? 9 bars? And what bean and roast type did you brew for the espresso and for the pour-over? Thanks.
Hi there - yes the Rancilio Silvia is set at 8.5-9 bars pressure. - no pre-infusion. Apologies for not including those details in this video. From memory - it was the same Kenyan coffee, roasted separately - one for filter - or for espresso. 7 & 14 days respective post roast.
I have the k plus now for over a year. The first 4ish months were ok, but then I started making espresso. I guess grinding finer seasoned the burrs or sth, but the filter brews as well as espresso are much better now. Especially in V60s that’s noticeable: before the “seasoning” sometimes the coffee came out sharp and choked throughout the end of the brew. Now it’s like there are no fines at all, I mostly grind to 5.4, can do 6 40g pours, and still have an overall brew time of 2 to 3 minutes.
Of course, I know that seasoning the burrs is a thing, but I’d never thought it would have such an impact!
The smallest grind size I could use for V60 with 40/60/60/100 (19g light roast) has been 3.6 so far; before, I never understood how anyone could go finer than 6.1…
The comandante to me is just a beautiful grinder, with some plastic insert, that probably will wear down over time. I chose the k plus because of its functionality over the comandante.
The main takeaway from some small scale tests of mine has been, that the kplus isn’t that different taste wise from a mid tear, espresso focused flat burr grinder (I started these tests at a time when the kplus had been new & probably unseasoned).
I would assume, that in comparison to a actual brew focused flat burr grinder (especially unimodal styles) the k plus wouldn’t stand a chance.
So interesting! Thanks for your thoughts 😀 Glad you're enjoying the Kplus
Since I don't do espresso, I just ordered the IZpresso ZP6 Special, which is reported by several reviews to do the best with brewed coffee.
By the way, I do this grammar correction whenever it is applicable, which is pretty often: the phrase is " *home* in", as in a homing device or homing pigeon, not " *hone* in". Although "hone" has a similar general meaning of "to sharpen", adding "in" doesn't make sense grammatically, and that usage is, in fact, the consequences mishearing the correct phrase, "home in".
Wow Thanks ! I love that! I truthfully had no idea it was home in, and you'd be correct when saying that it was no doubt from a consequences mishearing the correct phrase. Thanks for helping me hone my vocabulary ! 😀
@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks for taking it positively, and not calling me the grammar police when I am actually just a grammar correction officer. (I just made that up--I think it's pretty clever, if I do say so myself). I like your using "hone" correctly on its own. About 12 years ago, I myself was confused about "hone in" versus "home in", so I researched it and found the answer. Now, when I try to help set the record straight, it also makes me feel superior. That's a joke, or more accurately in this case, kidding on the square.
This was useful. I am gravitating towards k-plus for the speed, considering taste profile is reasonably close to commandante. But I am worried about knocking off the catch cup all the time. Is that a significant issue?
I would not say it is significant, no.
With the KPlus you won't have any issues if you're careful enough. Same applies to the JMax and Kmax. K-pro on the other hand, employs a threaded and SAFER grounds container which is 100% fail proof.
That being said, please, let me wholeheartedly endorse the K-pro instead. Same burrs, same grind quality and materials but at an slightly more friendly price tag with the added convenience of a fail proof, threaded, more traditional container.
Hope this helps
I was under the impression from multiple sources that the J Max was best for espresso. Maybe it is due to the amount of fine adjustments to really dial in your shots?
Asking because i recently purchased the J MAX thinking it was the best hand grinder for espresso. My coffee preference is dark roast decaf (can't have caffiene anymore).
you're on the right track for sure. Jmax has incredible adjustment of 8.8µ microns per click. closest to that is 12.5µ. You'll have no issues getting the right extractions using DECAF and the JMAX all good.
Amazing review. Thanks alot.
Glad you liked it!
Hi! Which coffee grinder, in your opinion, will provide fine grinding (very fine) for the jezve?
1Zpresso or Kinu for sure 👌
скажите, пожалуйста, как помол в турку у k-plus? и как она на вкус сравнительно с команданте? джезва
Он действительно хорошо измельчается. Так же хорошо, если не лучше
Hi, great content on your channel! I would like to know if the J MAX handle is magnetic or just the cup? Thanks.
Thanks so much! _ it's just the cup.
Purchased the kmax a month ago. It will not hold its calibration and will lose its zero point while grinding. It makes wonderful grinds when it works and 1zpresso is replacing it. I still am second guessing the purchase and may wind up getting the commandante instead. Thoughts?
I've never heard of any issues with Comandante out of the box. 1Zpresso, I have - but they are very good at replacing any grinders that have apparent manufacturing issues.
Kindly note any product, at any price level, even the finest machinery, can have manufacturing defects. In general, most reputable companies rely on stringent quality control to keep the returning cases as close to none as possible, but yk shit happens. This being said, I wholeheartedly recommend 1Z for quality, and of course comandante, Kinu and others.
Choosing one or another comes down to what you prefer. Side by side you can hardly tell a difference in taste, but grinding action on any 1Z J series or K series is WAY superior to comandante. C40 does amazingly well and perhaps offers the very best flavor of any grinder but at a higher price tag and TONS of arm workout (C40 will keep your shoulders and arms jacked!)
I have a C40 Mk3, I use it for V60 and moka pot, it is Amazing, but I am thinking of upgrading to the k-plus, if someone tried them both, what do you think?
It'd be small gain IMHO. Both great grinders - if you haven't already got the Red Clix upgrade foro the C40, that might be another option
I’ve been looking at 1zpresso for a bit and I still don’t think I understand the differences within the K series. Their site seems to say the Pro, Max, and Plus are essentially the same internals
that's correct. The burrs are the same - it just comes down to the grind size incremental change, the accessories and the look
All three models of the K series share the same burrs, adjustment range and adjustment mechanism. Identical. The only differences are:
K-pro: threaded grounds container
Kmax: slightly bigger grounds container, comes in machine grey color and employs a magnetic lock grounds container.
KPlus: same as kmax, employs a magnetic lock grounds container that's slightly wider than that of the Kmax, slightly wider body and comes with an special feature that allows to pour the grounds into an espresso portafilter much easier. Nothing huge but certainly a plus for espresso oriented customers.
Kindly if possible, do a review on Caffalano Krinder grinder and how that travel grinder compares to the compitition. Thankfully.
I love my k-plus but I'm surprised you went with it over the j-max.
Also I just got a Flair Pro 2 and got frustrated dialing in. But I only stuck within their recommended range of 2.5-3.5. So I might need to try the finer settings next. So thanks.
Elaborate? I have a flair pro 2 as well and I'm also considering buying the K plus. But what you said got me a bit concerned
.
@Max B I wouldn't be concerned about the grinder itself. I know it's capable of grinding for espresso. My issues are more with the process itself. i know manual espresso machines are far more forgiving. Although that's a double edged sword. Because they have that much control it's easier for you to mess it up. An espresso has far more key factors you need to control.
I honestly thought pour overs had a steep learning curve. But espresso is another level.
In the end the k-plus is great. It makes amazing pour over, aeropress, French press, and cold brew coffee. However if I was only buying a grinder for espresso I'd go for the j-max. But if you want to do other stuff as well the k-plus is great. I actually prefer it over my friends comandante c40 with the red clicks upgrade.
The flavors are super close. Like I can't tell close. I definitely notice the defenses between it an my q2. But the c40 and the k-plus are neck and neck. But the work flow is so much better with the k-plus. An it's so much easier to clean and maintain. It's a great grinder.
Where would the JX-Pro fit in this comparison? I think I saw somewhere that it has less fines than the J-Max. Thanks!
Yes, less fines then the Jmax. Subjectively, the taste tests have been pretty close between these two grinders, the JX-Pro being only a slightly better cup. The Jmax, I prefer the outside grind adjustment ring- the accessories it comes with, and it's looks over the JX-Pro.
JX-pro is still king of the line up. It's the only model currently offered by 1Z that still offers the largest adjustment range (only second to the Jmax) suitable for VERY fine espresso tuning AND also the tastier, sweeter pour overs. K series come with more bells and whistles, a newly designed burrs set and some extras but on the flavor department JX-pro still holds its own even against the most expensive K models
How would a kingrinder k4 or a k6 compare to these? Anyone with experience regarding those?
Whoaaa... thanks for great explanation... i've been troubled choosing between j-max or k series... i'm gonna using it as my daily brew using v60....
Now, it comes to clear, i gonna pick K series...
between K-plus and K-pro is there any difference between them other than the catch cup?
I do not believe so. All the K' grinders use the same burrs 👍
Would you do the comparison btw jmax and kinu? Since they both aim for espresso, I’m curious which is the best to go for.
I had thought of this ... perhaps there's a video there for the best hand grinder to date, with no price comparisons. At this stage, I would suggest the Kinu comes out on top for espresso
Just got my J-max. Initial experience was really bad, it came with locked burr. Only after disassembling I was able to spinn it. The wooden handle had a dent in it. It really looked like some mediocre chinease product worth half of the asking price. The thing that really bothers me is the final finish of the conical burr blades, some of which still have a "wire edge" looking like a half finished product ( or is it cuz it was locked jammed 🤷). Retention is the other problem that has to be addressed with J-max, it is substantial and annoying.
I have to say I love the scale setting. It is easy and it works really well.
Youch you got really unlucky. The two adjustment nuts were loose in the case and the burr was stuck but managed to knock it out with the rubber handle of a screwdriver. Then perfect. In your case I'd have sought to return for replacement...
Rentention isn't to bad with a bit of knocking but actually it's just easier to use RDT, I had less retention on subsequent grinds as well so not always necessary to always mist the beans.
Great flavour so far (moka pot) compared to my q2 which has been fantastic too.
Edit:1zpresso support were quite good at responding too.
Same here - initial experience with J-Max (and I had high hopes for it!) was so bad I sent it back to Amazon immediately upon receipt. Locked burr. Got frustrated trying to reset the thing - lousy instructions, both supplied with the grinder and online. Confusing for a newbie. Decided I just don‘t have the patience to figure it out. Now waiting for a Niche, instead - lots more expensive, but I want no-fuss espresso and Aeropress grinding. That said, one commenter here just turned me onto the Orphan OG Lido. Might give that a spin while waiting for the Niche, and cancel the Niche if it works out.
@@scottbecker3485 Sounds like a rough experience. I got a k-plus. It feels and looks premium and works great.
@@ryannicholls3372 Thanks for the rec. Yeah, the K-Plus does appear to be the better choice - even for espresso. That said, I‘m now pretty hyped on the Orphan Espresso Lido OG (and the Niche, as another animal altogether). We shall see…
Hi, I currently use mainly the aeropress. Which grinder would you choose for that? Thank you.
Any - but the best match would be the K-Plus, or the Comandante for sure!
@@AlternativeBrewing awesome, thank you. Great content and advice by the way 👍🏻
Hello, I would like to know, with the J Max at what click does the grindstone not rub? I have the millstones starting to rotate freely at the 36th click. Is this a defect? I.e. one click 8.8 microns, 36*8.8=316 microns, the normal grind for a jesvah is around 200 microns, but according to their chart I fall under the jesvah grind
You need to adjust the ring that sits just above the upper ball bearings. It's step 3 in the 1Zpresso cleaning guide here: 1zpresso.coffee/cleaning-for-external-adjustment/
This ring allow you to set where the Zero point is. So, you would hold the burrs closed, than dial this ring on as hard as you can then add everything on top.
NB: Unfortunately - grinders in general will not grind out anything say smaller than 50-100µ as it's so fine that the beans cannot be adequately pushed through the grinder without it clogging up. But 200µ should be possible No worries
Thank you for your help
Dear Sir,
I need second grinder, I already have a eureka mignon specialita, but I need second one for having two different beans always ready.
I am chosing between comandante c40 Mk4, k-plus and compak k3 AT.
Which one you will chose for best tasting espresso?
THANK YOU
If you have the opportunity to go Electric, and a decent one at that, the Compak K3 over hand grinding any day 😀
@@AlternativeBrewing THANK YOU! New K3 AT for a 290 eur it looks pretty god deal, i will miss a little bit possibility of having a travel grinder, but probably in the future, that will come too...
If 1.6 is espresso sweet spot for the K-Plus then what would be the grind setting for ibrik coffee?
1.0 or lower - *IF the grinds will come out at the fine a grind. Grinding for Ibrik is not fun on a Hand Grinder :(
@@AlternativeBrewing Hey, thanks for the reply. :) I saw "turkish coffee" on the reference so I assumed it was good for it.
Haha “exasperated” at 6 min 38. I think you mean “exacerbated” 😂. Nice review tho👍. I’ll stick with my mk 3 c40😄
haha 😂 possibly, that was a little off the cuff. But i was a pretty well frustrated at this stage of grinding more coffee by hand
@@AlternativeBrewing Always enjoy your thorough reviews Josh! Suspect you were exasperated after all that grinding! Also - I like that you actually give an opinion and don't sit on the fence. Proper reviews! Keep up the great work.
When will the comparrison between the eureka and the niche be available?
Working on it still - but not long
Hi, I'm considering between kmax and c40. Do they have huge different tastes? Should I pay more to upgrade to c40 because the price of C40 is almost double that of Kmax in my area.
K-Max all the way 👌 wont be disappointed and you're not missing out
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you
Hi. Was that with the original burrs for the K-Plus, or the supposedly improved ones later releases?
Are those 22micron per adjustment? Is that granular enough if I'm considering the Flair58 because i want to toy with how different I can make the same beans taste in various ratios and pressure profiles? I'm not sure whether I even have the palate to discern subtle differences. How subtle would the differences be, anyway? If i keep the two cups before me side by side.
Thanks for you videos. I sometimes feel I have to sift through to get at the "in between lines" because you are too well-mannered to say much about any "deal-breaking" downsides. I like that as a personality tendency. But it makes me have to listen carefully and interpolate!
hahaha 😂 interpolate! You said that so well mannered yourself - thank you for your kind comments with feedback and viewership.
The K-PLus I used in this video was the new style K-Burr set. Higher uniformity and toughened burrs. As for 22µ. This is a very very small amount. The JMAX at 8µ is just ridiculous - considering on a stepless grinder - you're most likely making more of a change to a grind size than 8µ when dialling in - so the benefits to the JMax's 8µ adjustment is a little misleading. Ideally -12-18µ is still very fine but much easier managed. The K-plus with 22µ - is still fine enough for espresso... not a huge jump from 18, you really won't find yourself missing a grind setting jumping back and forwards on 22µ all that often - and remember you can adjust things elsewhere in dose, distribution and tamping that may balance a setting you wish you had - as even though, Theoretically -0 the Jmax has 50 setting in the espresso range and the Kplus has 20. - practically - grouped together the Jmaxs grind settings could be halved - considering the such small jumps in grind size. - and personally I find I really only use half to a quarter of the grind sizes on any given grinder. Hope that helps answer your question 😀 Always happy to converse and elaborate on anything from the videos in the comments section
@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks!
@@AlternativeBrewing I was out of the loop and hadn't heard about a burr upgrade on the K-Plus. Chasing Commandante's hardened burrs, I'll bet? 1Z's chipping away at every advantage Commandante used to enjoy.
Stepped grind, difficult to adjust, slow to grind, expensive for what they are, end result is not dialled in espresso. On the plus side they look good for outdoor brewing pics on Instagram
Dear Joshua, thank you very much for this review.
I am using my K-Plus only for espresso for a few months now. As this is my first and only grinder, I am lacking the experience for comparison to others.
What I do like is the workflow with the blind shaker. I can transfer the grounds into my E61 portafilter, as well as my Nanopresso without creating a mess.
The only thing that baffles me is that you went down to 1.6 as an espresso grind setting.
When I use anything underneath 2.1 - I choke the machine.
I used dark, medium, and light roasted coffee, from 18-20g and I think that I don't tamp too hard.
Do you have a special technique, or an idea of what I am doing wrong?
Best regards,
Michael
Hi Michael, thanks for the kind words. No, you're not doing anything wrong. It would have come down to the coffee I am using and the machine. With the coffee, it will depend on a number of things such as the origin of the bean/s, the variety of beans and processes it has gone under to be ready to brew, including the roast style AND the date from roast... which in my particular case was a 13 days post roast (not old, but not fresh either...) I did try one other single origin espresso and a Blended coffee - dialling these in too - the Blend was a little fresher at 5 days post roast, and required a Grind Setting of 3. So really there's a larger range for grinding Espresso on the K-Plus than what is recommended.
@@AlternativeBrewing Oh wow! Thank you so much for this thorough explanation. I really, really appreciate that.
I am new on this specialty coffee journey and try to learn and understand as much as possible. This is why I really enjoy your videos, because you’re always passionate about sharing your experience. :-)
VST basket will make a difference too!
Thank you for the video. May I ask you how you would compare them to the Kinu M47 classic and the K-Max, please? Which one is best for you as an overall grinder( mainly espresso shots but also aeropress, Moka Pot, and V60). Thanks again from France!
I'll have to do the video! But off the cuff - I would say Kinu would be my choice, for espresso. But for filter coffee, I'd have to see
@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks a lot for your fast answer. I appreciate.
I disagree. Bought 4 including your winner, returned them all. Impossible for a novice to set grind size. Got the Comandante a few weeks ago and was/am elated with it. Best decision made in a long time!
Sounds like a operator issue. I have had no problems with setting my jx-pro and j-max. Take 5 minutes and read the manual or watch a RUclips video? Its really not that hard.
@@hitindustries6076 Are you able to get french press from your J-max?
@@hitindustries6076 Yeap... I was on edge between the K-Plus vs Comandante C40 Mk. 4. Conisdering the bigger burr/speed, magnetic catch cup, external adjustment, and an Eva carry case for the money... I chose the K-Plus since I do mostly pour over/filter
Very easy adjustment, cleaning and disassembly/calibration. One caveat that it is kinda hard to grind "light roast a.k.a. hard beans" with espresso setting (number '3' or below)... like sometimes it's physically hard to do 1 revolution/stops sometimes.
So if you do a lot of espresso... I'd suggest J-max or even the C40 since it has 39mm burr (easier grind, esentially a mini K-plus)
@@Llaammiill yes, absolutely
The Comandante is the best travel grinder on the market. The problem with these comparisons is that the 1zpressos are budget espresso grinders and the Comandante is a travel grinder made for filter coffee. If you're looking for ultimate cup quality, you cannot beat the Comandante.
Excellent video but scientifically your method for the pour over was flawed. In taking a scoop from each sieve you no longer are comparing the ground total products. For example with the J-Max which you showed producing more fines, you then completely changed the coffee you tested by changing the balance of fines medium and coarse that the grinder originally produced as you appeared to be adding similar quantities from each sieve. If that doesn't have a significant impact on the result then sieve distribution is not that critical. In hindsight, an attempt at dialling the grinder in, which is what happens in reality, would have been a better choice. Your viewers have no idea about your ability to dial in a coffee but the science impacts are obvious. :-)
Just food for thought for future videos :-)
Thanks so much for watching!
Yeah - I agree -it wasn't the best approach. Confusing to the viewers at best. I would say the test was hoping to achieve a consistent measurement of taste comparison, across a medium grind setting in each grinder (best for use in pour overs). But it fails to suggest that dialling in for each grinder would be different. So a static, similar grind setting between each grinder doesn't demonstrate good dialling in processes at all - I was wanting more to take a snapshot of how each grinder made the coffee taste - if all other parameters could be as close as possible.
I wouldn't do it again this way. - though I actually worked out the percentages of fines, mids and boulders with each sample - and added the corresponding % to make up the dose for the pourover, for each grinder. For example - if the Jmax ground out 10% fines on average, then I would have placed 1.5g of fines to the 15g dose for the pourover. But this is probably the long way around 😂
Which do you think is the best for espresso only?
The Kplus / Kmax still. 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing I bought red clix+comandante :). Red clix came with it for free.
how do these grinders compare to electric like sette 270? for espresso..?
Video coming 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing looking forward but it may be a day late and dollar short but my izpresso is on its way back and my espresso tuning in was successful at last thanks to the sette 270 micro adjust
Great video ! (see our espresso in Taiwan too)
Thanks! ... So cool! IDK about the Chocolate Whopper btw wow!
How does the jx pro compare with these three?
If it were over the JX-Pro or the JMax - I would choose the Jmax. It's a better model with the outer grind adjustment ring, and looks way better. Same burrs - except the Jmax has titanium coating.
@@AlternativeBrewing thank you very much :)
I have the JX-pro and did consider the JMax (for espresso), but it was an extra $120 (45%) more. What swayed me was the same burr used. The extra adjustment of 8.8 micron vs 22 micron isn't a practical difference. Hope that helps you decide.
It's funny, I'm trying not to burn the coffee, little alone tasting 'notes'
Absolutely hate the k plus 3x already the bottom came off and spilled coffee all over the floor. I n these days of neodynium magnets what izpresso uses is way too weak.
Yeah - it happened to me too - even the J-max - not falling off during but - whilst taking it off :(
Go K-pro then! No worries
which should I get for turkish coffee?
can definitely do Turkish with Jmax
The first thing I tried with Jmax was turkish. The finest I could get was still probably twice of the particle size for tukish. The problem is that it doesn't pull the beans into the burr underneath 0-6-0 scale. Maybe crushing the beans before grinding would help, but then I am not enjoying preparing coffee anymore.
@@matejceglar3848 maybe you can try double grind for Turkish, but I was too scare to go too close after calibration refitting burrs. From memory, there are more than 10 steps after I got very very fine powders that would choke any espresso machine.
A true turkish grind is difficult to obtain with a hand grinder - but if it were out of these three - I would still go the K-plus. Easier to grind with , and the K-series burr are great at breaking down beans early in the chamber so you may not need to double grind.
Turgay Yildizli uses the comandante, i highly recommend his recipe for turkish, it's one of my favourite methods
Deco same as Hoffman’s?
roommates 😂
Have you ever compaired the 1zpresso q2 with the comandante?
I haven't no. What would you like to know?
@@AlternativeBrewing they got similair burr size,
Im curious about compaired speed for similair grindsize.
Cup quality for espresso(around 0.8 - 0.9 on the q2) and aeropress (around 1.4)
Difference in fines and boulders.
If their is a reason not to use the q2 for espresso
It seems to me like the q2 might be fair competition to the comendante or am I wrong?
The Comandante has a very unique burr geometry. It's not wildly different - but it's enough to make a big difference to the speed of grinding, the efficiency; which impacts the smoothness to grind with, and the overall grind quality. quite substantially.
Let me get back to you on the grind distribution of the Q2 vs Comandante, as I have not tested these back to back - but my initial thoughts would be that the Comandante would outdo it.
It's not the first time someone has suggested a budget grinder to be competitive with the comandante. The Timemore C2 is another that is always mentioned. It don't think you're wrong in suggesting it. I myself have spoken about this in terms of, what is the point of diminishing returns on investment👍
@@peterr8538 I'm expecting to get my cafelat robot this week. I own the Q2 and J max. I'll try and see if I can get a comparison.
The main problem is going to be grind settings. The 'espresso range' for the Q2 is small at around the 1 rotation mark and I'm assuming not less than the number 7. So that's only 12 settings that might work for espresso. Grinding 1 rotation on a dark roast bean isn't too bad, medium to light roasts will take a while but if you only have a semi auto pump machine you're going to end up with wanting more settings.
Timemore C2 i think has more rotations and you can get a titanium burr which would be better suited to espresso.
Normcore v2 also seems to work well but apparently some quality issues. Grind speed looks really good.
One grinder range which is also potentially very overlooked is the knock range. I saw some inconsistent issues but it's probably overblown. The Feld47 with titanium burrs is probably a beast. But also a lot more parts that might need replacing too... 🤷♂️
Another note on commandate they do treat their burr material differently from what I remember. Yet it does seem slow for the espresso range, maybe that's why it always has praise for good flavour though as grind rate would effect heat etc.
@@AlternativeBrewing ah yes, Therese a lot of talk about the unik taste of comendante, I were just thinking with a grinder so much younger they might have gotten closer.
Also it might be worth taking into account that most people use persimmons scales so dosing 0,2 grams up and down for the golden 1:2 ratio may result in a perfect shot even though there is fewer clicks to choose from.
I've heard K-Max is even better than K-Plus
No way possible. All three models within K series share the same burr set!
It's exacerbated not exasperated lol
Kmax vs Kplus please
Hi there! OK No worries 😀 we do not currently offer the KMAX online, but it's something we could look in to getting 👍
Almost the same. If you're into espresso, KPlus offers a better package
😭 P-R-O-M-O-S-M!!!
Nice review! Which one you will choose for Turkish coffee grind?
I am fan of espresso (with various brew methods) but i am also interested in Turkish coffee.
Comandante 👌