My last bus before retirement was a 2019 Bluebird. I loved it. The issues I had were; the inside weatherstriping on the loading doors fell off, and the coach AC. I did have tilt/telescope wheel, adjustable pedals, and driver AC. Also, my seat would go back further. It had the 6.8 ford V10 gasoline, which was quiet and enough power. Thanks
Man I’m suprised to hear you ripping on a blue bird. But I agree with everything you said. Especially the SEATS not being ASSEMBLED CORRECTLY that it a huge safety issue. I was always under the assumption that blue bird made the best quality busses but I suppose they have issues as well.
@@Cole-q2h they used to be the best bus body you could get. But after 08 forget it. Went downhill from there. They need to go back to the 2003-07 design and redesign a new vision based off of it.
My school has all bluebird route busses and one IC. We have one new route bus with the new roof like yours. The spec is different cuz I’m in PA but I’m curious how that bus is holding up. (I ride a 2020 vision every day)
I've got a 2023 (old style roof with the plastic around the warning lights) and have/had some similar issues. The fit and finish on my ceiling is trash, with one failed rivet (with a replacement next to it) and one missing entirely (the hole wasn't even drilled). Some issues with the channels that hold the wiring not being as flush to the wall as they could be. Driver dome light started falling from the ceiling (at least it clicked back into place), and a conduit was rattling on the ceiling really badly. The front bulkhead or static vent, I can't tell, leaks quite a bit. Same issue with the service door hitting the body. Another issue that's always been around, take a look at the driver side wiper- it always hits the rubber gasketing along the center pillar of the windshield. I've noticed the same thing with the bus not wanting to stay planted on the road- this seems to be an issue ever since high headroom came standard... all the low headroom units didn't feel wobbly, all the high headroom ones do; perhaps Bluebird never revisited their suspension when they made the change, and I imagine the new roof design only makes it worse being taller. There was also a small coolant leak from factory, and a no start no crank issue a few weeks after I started using it. I've even had issues with the backlight on that heater panel, however it seems to be slightly intermittent, and comes back on if I cycle the lights. Can't speak on the drivetrain issue you have as mine is a gas unit governed at 75, and my only complaint is they dropped the hill descent downshifting you got when they used the V10's. When it comes to the heaters, I agree that they work great, but I find the level of heat very challenging to control. The front and rear heaters are plumbed in series instead of parallel, so I'm left deciding whether to keep the back comfy and cook myself, or keep myself comfy and freeze the back. You can shut off the front heater and set it to recirculate to stop the ram air effect, but the radiant heat from it still makes me sweat without a coat on. Having to control heater coolant flow with the old school plumbing valve is quite annoying, considering other buses just have a darn temperature knob. Now, as for the seat, I'm also somewhat bothered by it. However, I found if you slide the bottom cushion forward (kneeling next to the seat, pull on the little tab right at the front of the cushion on the bottom) and the cushion will pop up and slide forward. It doesn't make more space, but I've found at the very least the seat feels more reclined and I can move forward a little bit. It's worth trying out, and as a taller person I find the added leg support quite nice.
I drive a 2025 Vision with the Godzilla. I have the same bumps and rattles, sometimes it's hard it wants to go off the road when I hit a few bumps. My biggest pet peeve is that it leaks on the door side where the 8 ways are! Water literally pours through when it rains and when we wash it! Another contractor in the school district says that one of his brand new visions does it too! That's a serious problem that needs addressed.
Interesting! I have a 2023 with the old/transition roof design, and have the same issue. I'm not certain how the water is getting in, but the main things I'm suspecting is the static vent, mirror brackets and wire grommets, and the roof seam. Final idea is the clearance lights. On older units it was more of a nuisance than anything, but with the new electrical design there's some tech up in that bulkhead that I'm worried about corroding over time.
@tnast our boss put some caulking under the 8 ways on that side in the rain tray or whatever it's called, that took care of half of the leak, but that defroster fan is done.
We've had nothing but issues with our Visions. Stuff like dashboards rebooting, improperly set rivets, and so on. My personal bus didnt even have the high idle switch hooked up and it had a massive boost leak when we got it.
The newest vision I’ve driven is a 2022 and it’s got full 4 corner air ride and it rides like our other visions with full air ride, nice and smooth down our terrible backroads, yes the gauge cluster is annoying but I will say I like the lcd on the newer ones the color scheme distracts me less than the 2016 display does with the exhaust brake activation and I also found that if I turn down the brightness almost all the way down the white backlights don’t bother me as much at night, I’m too used to the C2s green backlight
Back around the year 2000, I was a student in high school. I joked with the driver of a Bluebird bus that it sounded like it was made out of styrofoam. It had a crazy amount of rattles and squeaks.
They should copy the c2 design and just have the speakers on the side and the led dome lights on the ceiling so there’s one electrical line going down each side panel. Either that or put both speakers and light on the ceiling like they did back in the day.
I had a problem with my bus earlier this morning, but I currently ride 1974, a '19 All American Rear engine, but I heard a high-pitched squeal from the engine compartment, and it sounded pretty bad.
Used to have a some Lift buses and regular BBV's in my fleet as a tanker man and a M1, I'll say this Bluebirds had issues with Coolant tank level sensors, Def headers going out more than the C2s or CEs(during covid with back order parts) Lack of factory drivers AC from factory, Seemed like the power steering res would leak atf, that and the Fuel water seperator either by the rear def(Bad placement) or on the fender wall( bad placement again) we had one bus that the AC was bypassed because the L bracket for the AC compressors was cracked and it took until a bus got wrecked before we had a bracket for it and could get the ac back on, not to mention the constant water leaks that kept happening as well as the crazy ass wiring diagrams OH and while i'm beating the horse to let's talk about changing out steer tires, You have to keep a study noose jack and blocks of wood or you will be calling for a tow truck to come lift the bus up with the wrecker(average wrecker bill costs $750) because the axle sits so low and jacking up from the leaf spring isn't always the best option. the Average Regular ed Passenger bus for a BBV costs between $80k-90K through the states bulk purchase contract Lift buses cost another 10K why would I want to buy a bus that comes with issues from factory that they don't wish to fix I would rather take a MXDT over a BBV
For the youngin out here that say and I've said this myself, "Oh that's under warranty" of that's the Cummins problem not a BBV problem, I agree with you but you have to understand this just like fred here I've been in his boat with the only thing being that he's one of the reasons I got into this field at at 18 I was the youngest driver and later fuel man in both carolina's. Districts can not afford to have a bus driven or towed to the nearest dealership for simple silly sh!t, for an example by rule GP Blue bird in Mebane NC is the dealership for all of SC now, at a worse case situation if Beaufort county SC had to tow a bus to Mebane it would be a 14 hour round trip tow(GIving time to hook and unhook take breaks traffic etc) that someone would have to pay for with a warranty claim issue
The school district I graduated from has a 2021 Bluebird Vision 7 row, short wheel base, EVERY driver hates it, common complaints are, squirrelly, hard to keep and the road, and very bouncy.
I've driven all the major conventional models, including the "next-gen" IC CE, Waynes, and BB 3800s. The "Next Gen" is far superior to the BBV and even the C2. The Vision's driver's area is what kills it for me! I'm 6ft 1" and find the driving position awkward. Also, our 2018s use a Clarion head unit, and I was shocked that you can't even make out the display! Meanwhile, most of our 2010 International radios are still going strong. Regarding storage areas, the plastic storage areas in the front of C2s are flimsy and feel cheap, and the foam padding underneath our bluebirds' storage areas is starting to break down. I always thought Bluebird had the best quality, maybe the older 3800s, but not the newer models.
Let’s hope they fix these issues in the future. I like the next gen IC but at the same time. I love a blue bird bus. They just have some issues to correct and actually listen to driver feedback. And their dealers need better training on what’s offered.
I really like the new roof cap look- the previous style looks so tacky to me. We’ll see how long the plastic surrounds last though. I work on buses for a district that is over 1/2 BB propane and I don’t mind those engines. The body build quality and lack of redesign in the drivers area is definitely a problem like you stated (especially when the bus costs $130k+). The hoods also squeak as the buses get older and start rubbing things they shouldn’t. That’s crazy they didn’t give you the full length acoustic headliner you ordered. I would’ve been tempted to reject the bus upon delivery. I’m glad you made this video- maybe they’ll see it and make needed changes
Trust me I’d have liked to send it back. But this was the second time I’d ordered this bus. First time they ordered it was missing stuff and was only a 71 pax when I ordered a 77. We needed the bus as we’d added another route so I had to take it.
@@uAKING2006 bad thing is. 26 is a 2023 same issues. I know they know about it. Why not correct it? They could fix a lot of that panel rattling by running a bead of silicone in the top of that channel before installing it….
@@Bluebirdvision91because they know they'll still sell them even if they don't. They're all junk now. Bluebird, thomas, IC. And those are our only real options anymore. Corporations merging means less choice, poorer quality and higher prices.
I couldn’t agree with you more brother I love bluebird best bus I’ve driven and I’ve driven Thomas C2 and I love the bluebirds and when I get my trucking company where I want it and have my own trucking school my shuttle buses we’re gonna be bluebirds and I would love for bluebird to correct those problems before I have the opportunity to order buses because I’m just like you a die hard bluebird fan I would love to see bluebird succeed the last bus I drove was a 2016 bluebird vision propane with the ford 6.8L V10 it was air ride no A/C but it had the same exact issues just like that bus it rattles it was a fun bus to drive like you said they are great buses but if they would correct the issues they would be amazing buses that was a great video I think this should get sent to bluebird directly and I think they should watch this and fix these problems
@@Josb_Bluebird2143I never road a bus that rattled or bounced as much as a blue bird 😂, I can’t speak for the newer ones, the last one I road was a 2012
Our biggest problem with Blue Birds at the moment is the seat frames. We had both of our 2018s that we had to replace all of the seat frames because they were all broken. The design is horrible. Bus is only 6 years old and shouldn't have to be replacing seat frames. We have had a few in our 19s and 21s but the dealer has fixed those under warranty. The way the seat frames are made, some of them rattle because they are metal on metal in two places and they put a piece of seat cover over this plate on the frame to try and stop it from rattling. Both of our 18s were at dealer multiple times for broken seats and we had to end up replacing the frames ourselves. We have also filed NHSTA Complaints against BB for the frames and reported to our state department. I hate the way 2021 and newer ride, we have some rough roads around here and sometimes you feel like you are rocking on a boat. BB quality is going down hill like. We will not be ordering them anymore, We are IC only from here on out. We have a 20, 2 23s and 2 24s and 3 25s on order. ICs are so much better in our opinion and we get better support from IC. When we started ordering BBs in 2013 they were like Cadillac's compared to the buses we had at the time and now they are just garbage. I hate working on them and can't wait until they are gone!
@@Josb_Bluebird2143 I don’t mind working on them. But my thing is. They know about these same issues. Why haven’t they addressed them? I will agree that quality has gotten slightly better since Phil Horlock took back over at CEO but there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
The biggest issues on the BLUEBIRDS have and what does INTERNATIONAL IC’s don’t have in GWINNETT is the stair well is wide on the CE’s and on the VISIONS the stair well is so tight like BLUEBIRD should make the stair well wide like on the CE’s when it gets onto the engine on the CE’s you can hear the engine on the CE’s with IC’s DT466 MAXXFORCE DT and IC’s B6.7 liter CUMMINS ENGINES with the straight pipe system on the exhaust on the 2005 CE’s to the 2022 CE’s with the straight pipe exhaust system on the tires on the CE’s the tires can last longer on the CE’s then on the VISIONS on the drivers area when I am sitting in the driver seat I know the switches on the control panel and the controls on the steering wheel on the CE’s when I am doing the inspections on the CE’s I know he components on the CE’s then on the VISIONS when I am doing the inspections with my driver Mr Coleman air brakes and the air ride suspension system on the CE’s it rides and brakes smoothly then on the VISIONS the gage cluster when I turn on the ignition with the key on 3014 the gages move what they supposed to on the fuel gauge air pressure voltage oil pressure coolant and engine temperature speedometer and the RPM gage on the VISIONS the gage cluster does a gage sweep and not the original way like on the CE’s
They need to bring back the interior they were in the 2000s. All our visions and T3FEs have awful interior. Everything sounds like it's going to fall apart when it hits a bump. On the T3FE when it goes over a bump the dash moves about a inch, on our A3s and TCs they are solid as a rock. We have had so many issues with our visions, probably because we ordered them with the 7.3 Godzilla but the transmission it uses is awful. All of the issues with the transmission are electric related, why can't we have a hydraulic controlled automatic 4-speed transmission like our old busses.
The 2024 Visions we have have been fine except for the Leaking issues. Better than the 2025 C2s which have a rattling noise and the door rattles which wasn't present on the older C2s. Also Intellipark malfunctioning making things worse. We have just been lucky with Blue Birds I guess prehaps unlucky with Thomas.
Dang, even after I graduated, I see why bluebird has proven unreliable with that many flaws if we order some... i think i see why we're sticking to IC for now on
I’m a mechanic with a company in Toronto, we bought about 80 Bluebirds in 2017 and won’t buy anymore. Constant problems with them, brake lines are out in the open so they rot even with rustproofing (shouldn’t be doing lines on 6-7 year old buses), none of the wiring harnesses are loomed and they break wires stupid easy, we have drivers that are too short to fit in the drivers seat because of the steering column design. Just shit buses from the beginning, buy thomases from now on and you won’t have issues.
2:11 what’s strange is that IC Uses a similar design for the side panels above the windows and they don’t have issues with rattles, squeaks or falling panels. As for the issue with them giving you the wrong specs, that doesn’t make me feel good about bluebird quality control. The drivers area is pathetic too. It should be at least 35-40 inches. IMO bluebird Sucks. They need to redesign this bus within the next year and they need to fix these big problems especially the rough suspension (I rode an air ride equipped one and it sucked).
Wrong specs was a dealer issue. IC builds an entire channel (bottom and top) that the wire railing sits in. It doesn’t depend on windows and a thin strip of metal that’s installed at an incorrect angle to hold it steady. And there’s some sort of felt material inside of it. That further stops rattles.
They don’t make them like they used to, that’s for sure. I hate the cup holder. Anything heavier than a feather and it’s snapping off. When I had mine, my elbow would always hit the storage compartment right next to the driver window. Not to mention the dash is pointing to the ceiling. I never understood why they use 3 different types of switches… They have to have a new dash in the works or something since Thomas and international both have new designs, though Thomas is just barely getting by with a “new design.” I can’t imagine that you’d go for a Blue Bird anymore after 2025-2026 since they won’t be offering diesel options anymore though. I hate their child check system, I hate the light monitor they use, and that overhead storage is just a plastic pos box bolted to the roof. International is too, but at least there isn’t a gap between the front wall panel and the box… I’ve driven brand new Internationals and C2s, honestly the C2 beats it by just a hair in my opinion. Hell, even the older C2s don’t rattle as much as older CEs. I know you despise them, but demo a new C2 if you can, you’d be surprised I think.
Already have. Still just don’t like anything about a c2. I’ll deal with this one before I get another c2. But at the same time. Atleast Thomas fixed known issues. That upholder has been a problem since day 1! They need to straighten up the dash. Pick up the steering column and make it go in further. That would help a lot
@@Bluebirdvision91just buy used buses like Gwinnett did lol. Hell you could go in copart and probably get some old Gwinnett buses and put them in service. I wish I could’ve experienced the new gen CE. Only thing I don’t like in C2s is the A pillar blind spots.
C2s used to be decent buses but the quality isn't as good. Our 2025 C2s are not great, one of the buses has some sort of engine rattling noise, the door rattles, and Intellipark malfunctioning. These issues weren't present on the 2018-2020 C2s my District owns.
You are Lucky. My district got 2025 C2s and there’s have been leaking problems, some sort of rattling noise, door rattling as well. Also we got Intellipark, which caused problems. Either it would apply automatically or just doesn’t. The 2024 Visions has held up better than our 2025 C2 despite having squeaky breaks and leaking problems.
@ Wow, the last time I can remember our C2’s had quality trouble was back in 2016 when a few of the busses had the same electrical issue where the stop signs, dome lights, and doors would just not work.
@@Bluebirdvision91 Explain man. I’ve been driving C2’s for 9 years now and they just have treated me better than any of the other busses I’ve driven 🤷🏼♂️
I don't hate Birds because of the bodies or chassis. That isn't my problem. But that driver's area is the worst.... I'm a big guy and I am cramped in there. Not to mention having to look and reach for things that are right in front of me on an IC. Bird may turn tighter and have a better heat management system, but if I ain't comfortable while I'm driving it, fuhggedaboudit.
@@mattdog558 that happened to one of the 2011 IC CE bus I’m on as a special needs para at 160,000 or so miles but that was because the part was worn out not a defect.
@@isaiahanderson7237 ares were defected straight from the factory it was one after another so we have many parts on standby because it’s a common occurrence now
@Bluebirdvision91 yesssss I love 2003/2004 busses that was my first bus it was a 2003 or 04 ce200 bus number 167 but they scraped them for no reason I hate the c2s like they get hot in the back way to quick even in the winter
And bro where I go to school we have no electric busses yet I just don't find a point in them bc like their gonna do as much pollution as a diesel does now propane and gas needs to be out of every county in the US just in my opinion cause for one propane can blow up in pretty big explosions which could kill all the students if it does blow and no my county doesn't have gas propane or electric their all diesel which is good
@ I had a conversation with an electric bus rep. Which is why I decided to go ahead and make this vid. Trying to sell the electric bus when they can’t build a decent diesel….
I have a question for you.. you ordered this bus? Why did you order it with the hubcaps? They are absolute trash. I understand the aluminum wheels are probably an expensive option but look awesome, but the black steelies are so much better and cheaper than those hubcaps. Could you show the LED headlights at night?
First off the bus came with them. I didn’t order them. Secondly as you might think they’re trash any average non bus person sees it as chrome and it looks well. And I like it so even if it didn’t come with them it would’ve gotten a set anyway. I will show the headlights once I’m at the yard when it’s dark.
@@Bluebirdvision91 Thanks in advance for showing the headlights. So, they hubcaps are standard now over just the steelies? The last company I worked for had 80 brand new 2021 visions with these hubcaps, they fall off randomly all the time and get all dented up VERY easily (I think just hitting a bug with one while driving down the road could probably dent it lol [exaggeration obviously but yeah]). I was told that they are around $200 each to replace. Also, unless they changed the design, which it doesn't appear as though they did.. if one of the rear ones falls off while driving down the road, BOTH of those tires will immediately go flat as there is a hose connecting the valve stem to the hubcap which of course comes off with the hubcap lol. Our fix was just to remove the hoses and put regular valve stem caps on the valve stems..but then to add/check air you have to remove the hubcaps every time.
I was a 2 way radio installer. On these visions, i learned to make note of all issues i could find just to cover my ass. The build quality is so terrible, ive seen plastic self tap screws used in machined holes. From the factory. Loose power terminal to the main fuse block from the battery. Bluebird shouldn't be in business anymore. And i damn sure wouldn't trust them to build an electric vus
This is very unfortunate to hear. My district runs IC CE gas units (primarily 2019-2020 with some 22s, 23s, and 24s). They work, but quality could be a lot better especially considering the lower mileage of our fleet (ranging between 30,000 and 50,000 miles. We need a new wheelchair 35+5 bus, and I did make the suggestion to try Blue Bird. This video is making me second guessing that. I take you will be buying International for a while? I know you are far from a Thomas fan. Also, on an unrelated note, who is staffed in maintenance side of your school's transportation department? Our district only has two guys that are stetched thin due to other roles that are not transportation related, and I am trying go make suggestions on how we should be staffed so maintenance is done more timely.
9:28 The best school bus that they ever produce bluebird was 1989 Ford B700 series they need to go back to that body style cluster panel and dash which was all metal that had plenty of space and room they just need to go back to that whole design from the 1989 series and go back to the Ford chassis the Chevy chassis GMC chassis international chassis motor and transmission! Put manual transmissions back in these buses bring back that setup and people buy more of their product The fact that Thomas bluebird and that other company whatever it is ICS or whatever it is started doing their own setup their own packaging motor and stuff it sucks! They want to make quality product bring back the original setups where it was GMC Chevy Ford that powered these buses where it was easy for the shops to fix the buses they can go to the local dealer and get a part have the bus up and running That same day! When I grew up there was no air conditioning on the school buses it was ruled the window down get air pop the roof hatch and that was it and there was none of this fancy technology that's on the buses now no child left behind crap none of that do you know what we had A white strip magnet that hanged at the back of the door each stop the driver had to get up sweep out the school bus at the end of each stop of the route the very last drop off at the end of the route driver had to get up go sweep out the bus from the front to the back!!! Back in the school buses didn't even have radios there was nothing so these buses have gotten way too comfort features honestly they just need to go back to what made the company money and profitable and people desiring these bus Go back to the original drivetrains GMC Chevy Ford international and consider bringing in Dodge we would call them pullers if the motor was mounted up front and if it was in the back flat nose school bus we called them pushers those were the only real bluebird bluebird buses that were their design only which were the pushers and the flat nose! Bring those designs back bring that quality back from the 1985 to 1995 And they will see an increase of sales be honest wouldn't you love to see a school bus with the Chevy front-end again! Go take a drive see if you can find a 1989 bluebird Ford b700 series school bus see how much room it has and how it drives and then go find a Chevy or GMC model Tell me how much more comfortable they are compared to what you're driving now and tell me if you wouldn't like seeing that same design up-to-date now I promise you you will!
I have always drove international. Since moving to a new company 5 yrs ago that’s all we have are BB and I hate them. Poorly designed. Every bird I’ve driven rattles, the drivers area are tiny, I’m 415 pounds and I’m crammed behind the wheel, I had so much room in my internationals. The lights they use under those switches get HOT. I’ve burnt my finger on them cause of the hotness of the lights. The switches are crap, I’ve had many of them brake. I liked the older display where u can change the color of the dash lights. Not a fan of the new crap. And they need to do a better job at a cup holder cause what they have sucks, they brake if something is to heavy in them. They need to bring a team of engineers from International over and let them show how to design a bus.
They aren't any better. Build quality still sucks and sometimes those engines like to shoot out spark plugs. I have seen people already replacing the 7.3s for various reasons.
My last bus before retirement was a 2019 Bluebird. I loved it. The issues I had were; the inside weatherstriping on the loading doors fell off, and the coach AC.
I did have tilt/telescope wheel, adjustable pedals, and driver AC.
Also, my seat would go back further.
It had the 6.8 ford V10 gasoline, which was quiet and enough power.
Thanks
Man I’m suprised to hear you ripping on a blue bird. But I agree with everything you said. Especially the SEATS not being ASSEMBLED CORRECTLY that it a huge safety issue. I was always under the assumption that blue bird made the best quality busses but I suppose they have issues as well.
@@Cole-q2h they used to be the best bus body you could get. But after 08 forget it. Went downhill from there. They need to go back to the 2003-07 design and redesign a new vision based off of it.
My school has all bluebird route busses and one IC. We have one new route bus with the new roof like yours. The spec is different cuz I’m in PA but I’m curious how that bus is holding up. (I ride a 2020 vision every day)
I've got a 2023 (old style roof with the plastic around the warning lights) and have/had some similar issues. The fit and finish on my ceiling is trash, with one failed rivet (with a replacement next to it) and one missing entirely (the hole wasn't even drilled). Some issues with the channels that hold the wiring not being as flush to the wall as they could be. Driver dome light started falling from the ceiling (at least it clicked back into place), and a conduit was rattling on the ceiling really badly. The front bulkhead or static vent, I can't tell, leaks quite a bit. Same issue with the service door hitting the body. Another issue that's always been around, take a look at the driver side wiper- it always hits the rubber gasketing along the center pillar of the windshield. I've noticed the same thing with the bus not wanting to stay planted on the road- this seems to be an issue ever since high headroom came standard... all the low headroom units didn't feel wobbly, all the high headroom ones do; perhaps Bluebird never revisited their suspension when they made the change, and I imagine the new roof design only makes it worse being taller. There was also a small coolant leak from factory, and a no start no crank issue a few weeks after I started using it. I've even had issues with the backlight on that heater panel, however it seems to be slightly intermittent, and comes back on if I cycle the lights. Can't speak on the drivetrain issue you have as mine is a gas unit governed at 75, and my only complaint is they dropped the hill descent downshifting you got when they used the V10's.
When it comes to the heaters, I agree that they work great, but I find the level of heat very challenging to control. The front and rear heaters are plumbed in series instead of parallel, so I'm left deciding whether to keep the back comfy and cook myself, or keep myself comfy and freeze the back. You can shut off the front heater and set it to recirculate to stop the ram air effect, but the radiant heat from it still makes me sweat without a coat on. Having to control heater coolant flow with the old school plumbing valve is quite annoying, considering other buses just have a darn temperature knob.
Now, as for the seat, I'm also somewhat bothered by it. However, I found if you slide the bottom cushion forward (kneeling next to the seat, pull on the little tab right at the front of the cushion on the bottom) and the cushion will pop up and slide forward. It doesn't make more space, but I've found at the very least the seat feels more reclined and I can move forward a little bit. It's worth trying out, and as a taller person I find the added leg support quite nice.
My district has the same 2000 International ICs since as far back as 2005, them MFs are tough
fr those things are tanks
Oh my god! 1st Air Conditioned Blue Bird Vision to have LED Headlights! Awesome! I did not see that one coming
I drive a 2025 Vision with the Godzilla. I have the same bumps and rattles, sometimes it's hard it wants to go off the road when I hit a few bumps. My biggest pet peeve is that it leaks on the door side where the 8 ways are! Water literally pours through when it rains and when we wash it! Another contractor in the school district says that one of his brand new visions does it too! That's a serious problem that needs addressed.
Interesting! I have a 2023 with the old/transition roof design, and have the same issue. I'm not certain how the water is getting in, but the main things I'm suspecting is the static vent, mirror brackets and wire grommets, and the roof seam. Final idea is the clearance lights. On older units it was more of a nuisance than anything, but with the new electrical design there's some tech up in that bulkhead that I'm worried about corroding over time.
@tnast our boss put some caulking under the 8 ways on that side in the rain tray or whatever it's called, that took care of half of the leak, but that defroster fan is done.
We've had nothing but issues with our Visions. Stuff like dashboards rebooting, improperly set rivets, and so on. My personal bus didnt even have the high idle switch hooked up and it had a massive boost leak when we got it.
The newest vision I’ve driven is a 2022 and it’s got full 4 corner air ride and it rides like our other visions with full air ride, nice and smooth down our terrible backroads, yes the gauge cluster is annoying but I will say I like the lcd on the newer ones the color scheme distracts me less than the 2016 display does with the exhaust brake activation and I also found that if I turn down the brightness almost all the way down the white backlights don’t bother me as much at night, I’m too used to the C2s green backlight
you made A point facts 💯💯💯💯 Bluebird company they do actions instead words
Back around the year 2000, I was a student in high school. I joked with the driver of a Bluebird bus that it sounded like it was made out of styrofoam. It had a crazy amount of rattles and squeaks.
They should copy the c2 design and just have the speakers on the side and the led dome lights on the ceiling so there’s one electrical line going down each side panel. Either that or put both speakers and light on the ceiling like they did back in the day.
I had a problem with my bus earlier this morning, but I currently ride 1974, a '19 All American Rear engine, but I heard a high-pitched squeal from the engine compartment, and it sounded pretty bad.
Used to have a some Lift buses and regular BBV's in my fleet as a tanker man and a M1, I'll say this Bluebirds had issues with Coolant tank level sensors, Def headers going out more than the C2s or CEs(during covid with back order parts) Lack of factory drivers AC from factory, Seemed like the power steering res would leak atf, that and the Fuel water seperator either by the rear def(Bad placement) or on the fender wall( bad placement again) we had one bus that the AC was bypassed because the L bracket for the AC compressors was cracked and it took until a bus got wrecked before we had a bracket for it and could get the ac back on, not to mention the constant water leaks that kept happening as well as the crazy ass wiring diagrams OH and while i'm beating the horse to let's talk about changing out steer tires, You have to keep a study noose jack and blocks of wood or you will be calling for a tow truck to come lift the bus up with the wrecker(average wrecker bill costs $750) because the axle sits so low and jacking up from the leaf spring isn't always the best option. the Average Regular ed Passenger bus for a BBV costs between $80k-90K through the states bulk purchase contract Lift buses cost another 10K why would I want to buy a bus that comes with issues from factory that they don't wish to fix I would rather take a MXDT over a BBV
For the youngin out here that say and I've said this myself, "Oh that's under warranty" of that's the Cummins problem not a BBV problem, I agree with you but you have to understand this just like fred here I've been in his boat with the only thing being that he's one of the reasons I got into this field at at 18 I was the youngest driver and later fuel man in both carolina's. Districts can not afford to have a bus driven or towed to the nearest dealership for simple silly sh!t, for an example by rule GP Blue bird in Mebane NC is the dealership for all of SC now, at a worse case situation if Beaufort county SC had to tow a bus to Mebane it would be a 14 hour round trip tow(GIving time to hook and unhook take breaks traffic etc) that someone would have to pay for with a warranty claim issue
The school district I graduated from has a 2021 Bluebird Vision 7 row, short wheel base, EVERY driver hates it, common complaints are, squirrelly, hard to keep and the road, and very bouncy.
The newest blue bird I would drive is a 2014 or maybe a very early 15 at most… my favorite visions are 11 to 14 models
I've driven all the major conventional models, including the "next-gen" IC CE, Waynes, and BB 3800s. The "Next Gen" is far superior to the BBV and even the C2. The Vision's driver's area is what kills it for me! I'm 6ft 1" and find the driving position awkward. Also, our 2018s use a Clarion head unit, and I was shocked that you can't even make out the display! Meanwhile, most of our 2010 International radios are still going strong.
Regarding storage areas, the plastic storage areas in the front of C2s are flimsy and feel cheap, and the foam padding underneath our bluebirds' storage areas is starting to break down. I always thought Bluebird had the best quality, maybe the older 3800s, but not the newer models.
Let’s hope they fix these issues in the future. I like the next gen IC but at the same time. I love a blue bird bus. They just have some issues to correct and actually listen to driver feedback. And their dealers need better training on what’s offered.
Blue bird needs to get their quality under control!
I really like the new roof cap look- the previous style looks so tacky to me. We’ll see how long the plastic surrounds last though.
I work on buses for a district that is over 1/2 BB propane and I don’t mind those engines. The body build quality and lack of redesign in the drivers area is definitely a problem like you stated (especially when the bus costs $130k+). The hoods also squeak as the buses get older and start rubbing things they shouldn’t.
That’s crazy they didn’t give you the full length acoustic headliner you ordered. I would’ve been tempted to reject the bus upon delivery. I’m glad you made this video- maybe they’ll see it and make needed changes
Trust me I’d have liked to send it back. But this was the second time I’d ordered this bus. First time they ordered it was missing stuff and was only a 71 pax when I ordered a 77. We needed the bus as we’d added another route so I had to take it.
A lot of the issues you’re having are the same as ours, right down to the ceiling panels this year. It’s ridiculous
@@uAKING2006 bad thing is. 26 is a 2023 same issues. I know they know about it. Why not correct it? They could fix a lot of that panel rattling by running a bead of silicone in the top of that channel before installing it….
There should be padding on the sidewalks & acoustic glass.@@Bluebirdvision91
@@Bluebirdvision91because they know they'll still sell them even if they don't.
They're all junk now. Bluebird, thomas, IC.
And those are our only real options anymore. Corporations merging means less choice, poorer quality and higher prices.
@@Bluebirdvision91that’s what IC does. It also seals gaps between panels too.
I couldn’t agree with you more brother I love bluebird best bus I’ve driven and I’ve driven Thomas C2 and I love the bluebirds and when I get my trucking company where I want it and have my own trucking school my shuttle buses we’re gonna be bluebirds and I would love for bluebird to correct those problems before I have the opportunity to order buses because I’m just like you a die hard bluebird fan I would love to see bluebird succeed the last bus I drove was a 2016 bluebird vision propane with the ford 6.8L V10 it was air ride no A/C but it had the same exact issues just like that bus it rattles it was a fun bus to drive like you said they are great buses but if they would correct the issues they would be amazing buses that was a great video I think this should get sent to bluebird directly and I think they should watch this and fix these problems
Maybe before long somebody will see it. Being public and all.
I love this bus and I can't wait to drive one.
They ride like garbage!
@@Josb_Bluebird2143I never road a bus that rattled or bounced as much as a blue bird 😂, I can’t speak for the newer ones, the last one I road was a 2012
@@Pa_school_bus_enthusiastI rode a 2014 and it had terrible rattles and squeaks and the ride quality is terrible.
Our biggest problem with Blue Birds at the moment is the seat frames. We had both of our 2018s that we had to replace all of the seat frames because they were all broken. The design is horrible. Bus is only 6 years old and shouldn't have to be replacing seat frames. We have had a few in our 19s and 21s but the dealer has fixed those under warranty. The way the seat frames are made, some of them rattle because they are metal on metal in two places and they put a piece of seat cover over this plate on the frame to try and stop it from rattling. Both of our 18s were at dealer multiple times for broken seats and we had to end up replacing the frames ourselves. We have also filed NHSTA Complaints against BB for the frames and reported to our state department. I hate the way 2021 and newer ride, we have some rough roads around here and sometimes you feel like you are rocking on a boat. BB quality is going down hill like. We will not be ordering them anymore, We are IC only from here on out. We have a 20, 2 23s and 2 24s and 3 25s on order. ICs are so much better in our opinion and we get better support from IC. When we started ordering BBs in 2013 they were like Cadillac's compared to the buses we had at the time and now they are just garbage. I hate working on them and can't wait until they are gone!
@@Josb_Bluebird2143 I don’t mind working on them. But my thing is. They know about these same issues. Why haven’t they addressed them? I will agree that quality has gotten slightly better since Phil Horlock took back over at CEO but there’s still a lot of room for improvement.
¿Cuáles son los IC?
The biggest issues on the BLUEBIRDS have and what does INTERNATIONAL IC’s don’t have in GWINNETT is the stair well is wide on the CE’s and on the VISIONS the stair well is so tight like BLUEBIRD should make the stair well wide like on the CE’s when it gets onto the engine on the CE’s you can hear the engine on the CE’s with IC’s DT466 MAXXFORCE DT and IC’s B6.7 liter CUMMINS ENGINES with the straight pipe system on the exhaust on the 2005 CE’s to the 2022 CE’s with the straight pipe exhaust system on the tires on the CE’s the tires can last longer on the CE’s then on the VISIONS on the drivers area when I am sitting in the driver seat I know the switches on the control panel and the controls on the steering wheel on the CE’s when I am doing the inspections on the CE’s I know he components on the CE’s then on the VISIONS when I am doing the inspections with my driver Mr Coleman air brakes and the air ride suspension system on the CE’s it rides and brakes smoothly then on the VISIONS the gage cluster when I turn on the ignition with the key on 3014 the gages move what they supposed to on the fuel gauge air pressure voltage oil pressure coolant and engine temperature speedometer and the RPM gage on the VISIONS the gage cluster does a gage sweep and not the original way like on the CE’s
@@allantorres2703international corporation buses which is under the Navistar family
They need to bring back the interior they were in the 2000s. All our visions and T3FEs have awful interior. Everything sounds like it's going to fall apart when it hits a bump. On the T3FE when it goes over a bump the dash moves about a inch, on our A3s and TCs they are solid as a rock. We have had so many issues with our visions, probably because we ordered them with the 7.3 Godzilla but the transmission it uses is awful. All of the issues with the transmission are electric related, why can't we have a hydraulic controlled automatic 4-speed transmission like our old busses.
The 2024 Visions we have have been fine except for the Leaking issues. Better than the 2025 C2s which have a rattling noise and the door rattles which wasn't present on the older C2s. Also Intellipark malfunctioning making things worse. We have just been lucky with Blue Birds I guess prehaps unlucky with Thomas.
Good thing my hometown has all
ic ce
The amount of creaks and rattles you hear on a bluebird compared to a Thomas is crazy
Dang, even after I graduated, I see why bluebird has proven unreliable with that many flaws if we order some... i think i see why we're sticking to IC for now on
my bus still has a manual transmission
I’m a mechanic with a company in Toronto, we bought about 80 Bluebirds in 2017 and won’t buy anymore. Constant problems with them, brake lines are out in the open so they rot even with rustproofing (shouldn’t be doing lines on 6-7 year old buses), none of the wiring harnesses are loomed and they break wires stupid easy, we have drivers that are too short to fit in the drivers seat because of the steering column design. Just shit buses from the beginning, buy thomases from now on and you won’t have issues.
Not buying anymore C2s. I might have 2 drivers that like them. And I don’t either.
Like I don't know which ones better, I thought everyone complains about C2's but I guess C2's aren't the only complaint 🤷♂️
IC is the best!
Are you going to switch back to a CE for your next bus
Why is Bluebird using the same light panels as IC for the Interiors I miss the old style with the lights and speakers directly in the ceiling
@@TheArchDemon729 I don’t mind it. But they need a better way of securing them
If you to stop ordering bluebird visions what would be your new choice
@@mattarland4163 IC all day long.
2:11 what’s strange is that IC Uses a similar design for the side panels above the windows and they don’t have issues with rattles, squeaks or falling panels. As for the issue with them giving you the wrong specs, that doesn’t make me feel good about bluebird quality control. The drivers area is pathetic too. It should be at least 35-40 inches. IMO bluebird Sucks. They need to redesign this bus within the next year and they need to fix these big problems especially the rough suspension (I rode an air ride equipped one and it sucked).
Wrong specs was a dealer issue. IC builds an entire channel (bottom and top) that the wire railing sits in. It doesn’t depend on windows and a thin strip of metal that’s installed at an incorrect angle to hold it steady. And there’s some sort of felt material inside of it. That further stops rattles.
@ oh that’s good that IC’s design is actually more superior. I forgot to mention it’s a dealer issue not Manufacturer issue.
Did you add the new headlamps?
@@f40rty good eye. I did.
Very sad to see how much Blue Bird quality control has dipped.
Actually, I think quality control has dipped on everyone
I agree. It’s sad.
Bluebirds do tend to rattle a lot. IC CE’s are built better, and simpler to operate, in my opinion.
I see the BBV as a goofy model.
inverter for backlight is crazy!! is that what the ac electrical panel is for at 9:34? Do they have 120v outlets on these buses?
@@Defianthuman no 120v outlet.
bluebirds paint is trash too, we’ve had 19’s that have had to get repaints already
Where i live its mostly Thomas C2 or IC CE its rare to see a Bluebird here tho others parts ill see a Bluebird
They don’t make them like they used to, that’s for sure. I hate the cup holder. Anything heavier than a feather and it’s snapping off. When I had mine, my elbow would always hit the storage compartment right next to the driver window. Not to mention the dash is pointing to the ceiling. I never understood why they use 3 different types of switches… They have to have a new dash in the works or something since Thomas and international both have new designs, though Thomas is just barely getting by with a “new design.” I can’t imagine that you’d go for a Blue Bird anymore after 2025-2026 since they won’t be offering diesel options anymore though. I hate their child check system, I hate the light monitor they use, and that overhead storage is just a plastic pos box bolted to the roof. International is too, but at least there isn’t a gap between the front wall panel and the box… I’ve driven brand new Internationals and C2s, honestly the C2 beats it by just a hair in my opinion. Hell, even the older C2s don’t rattle as much as older CEs. I know you despise them, but demo a new C2 if you can, you’d be surprised I think.
Already have. Still just don’t like anything about a c2. I’ll deal with this one before I get another c2. But at the same time. Atleast Thomas fixed known issues. That upholder has been a problem since day 1! They need to straighten up the dash. Pick up the steering column and make it go in further. That would help a lot
@@Bluebirdvision91just buy used buses like Gwinnett did lol. Hell you could go in copart and probably get some old Gwinnett buses and put them in service. I wish I could’ve experienced the new gen CE. Only thing I don’t like in C2s is the A pillar blind spots.
C2s used to be decent buses but the quality isn't as good. Our 2025 C2s are not great, one of the buses has some sort of engine rattling noise, the door rattles, and Intellipark malfunctioning. These issues weren't present on the 2018-2020 C2s my District owns.
We’ve never had a brand new C2 with problems 😆
You are Lucky. My district got 2025 C2s and there’s have been leaking problems, some sort of rattling noise, door rattling as well. Also we got Intellipark, which caused problems. Either it would apply automatically or just doesn’t. The 2024 Visions has held up better than our 2025 C2 despite having squeaky breaks and leaking problems.
@ Wow, the last time I can remember our C2’s had quality trouble was back in 2016 when a few of the busses had the same electrical issue where the stop signs, dome lights, and doors would just not work.
Don’t get me started on our last c2…..
@@mikedior3089 C2’s suck. There’s three out of service in my district. But I still like them. They are 2017’s.
@@Bluebirdvision91 Explain man. I’ve been driving C2’s for 9 years now and they just have treated me better than any of the other busses I’ve driven 🤷🏼♂️
I’ll take a blue bird vision over any other brand my blue bird vision doesn’t rattle as much and it’s 2019
all of our biue bird do that including the ones from 98
Do some more bus cold starts
I don't hate Birds because of the bodies or chassis. That isn't my problem. But that driver's area is the worst.... I'm a big guy and I am cramped in there. Not to mention having to look and reach for things that are right in front of me on an IC. Bird may turn tighter and have a better heat management system, but if I ain't comfortable while I'm driving it, fuhggedaboudit.
are those stock headlights??
We got a new BBV today it’s out bus 2 I believe they are 2025 or 2026
Most of are 2022 the belt tensioner fail with in about 30k miles and leave us stranded on the road
Gonna be sure to grab a spare.
@@mattdog558 that happened to one of the 2011 IC CE bus I’m on as a special needs para at 160,000 or so miles but that was because the part was worn out not a defect.
@@isaiahanderson7237 ares were defected straight from the factory it was one after another so we have many parts on standby because it’s a common occurrence now
@@mattdog558 yikes. That didn’t happen with the CE’s we have. We have 2006-2025’s and they’ve been great
@@Bluebirdvision91 also my 2022 leaks water by my sun visor and right above the fans
At least it ain’t a Thomas C2
My District switched back to Blue Bird due to
A. Transition to Propane
B. Our 2025 C2s were terrible.
Do you have any of your 2003 ce buses left or no
Actually yes. Video on one of those coming soon
@Bluebirdvision91 yesssss I love 2003/2004 busses that was my first bus it was a 2003 or 04 ce200 bus number 167 but they scraped them for no reason I hate the c2s like they get hot in the back way to quick even in the winter
And bro where I go to school we have no electric busses yet I just don't find a point in them bc like their gonna do as much pollution as a diesel does now propane and gas needs to be out of every county in the US just in my opinion cause for one propane can blow up in pretty big explosions which could kill all the students if it does blow and no my county doesn't have gas propane or electric their all diesel which is good
@ I had a conversation with an electric bus rep. Which is why I decided to go ahead and make this vid. Trying to sell the electric bus when they can’t build a decent diesel….
@@Bluebirdvision91 lol but how long do the 2003 ce have left for service
I have a question for you.. you ordered this bus? Why did you order it with the hubcaps? They are absolute trash. I understand the aluminum wheels are probably an expensive option but look awesome, but the black steelies are so much better and cheaper than those hubcaps.
Could you show the LED headlights at night?
First off the bus came with them. I didn’t order them. Secondly as you might think they’re trash any average non bus person sees it as chrome and it looks well. And I like it so even if it didn’t come with them it would’ve gotten a set anyway. I will show the headlights once I’m at the yard when it’s dark.
@@Bluebirdvision91 Thanks in advance for showing the headlights.
So, they hubcaps are standard now over just the steelies? The last company I worked for had 80 brand new 2021 visions with these hubcaps, they fall off randomly all the time and get all dented up VERY easily (I think just hitting a bug with one while driving down the road could probably dent it lol [exaggeration obviously but yeah]). I was told that they are around $200 each to replace. Also, unless they changed the design, which it doesn't appear as though they did.. if one of the rear ones falls off while driving down the road, BOTH of those tires will immediately go flat as there is a hose connecting the valve stem to the hubcap which of course comes off with the hubcap lol. Our fix was just to remove the hoses and put regular valve stem caps on the valve stems..but then to add/check air you have to remove the hubcaps every time.
What year your school bus is
2025
New headlights?
@@jacklovesc2 nice catch. Upgraded to the new ones about a week ago
@ nice
Are your 1st gen visions any better
@@cwbusrides very much so. They drove so much better
@@Bluebirdvision91 Are they retired
I was a 2 way radio installer. On these visions, i learned to make note of all issues i could find just to cover my ass. The build quality is so terrible, ive seen plastic self tap screws used in machined holes. From the factory. Loose power terminal to the main fuse block from the battery.
Bluebird shouldn't be in business anymore. And i damn sure wouldn't trust them to build an electric vus
Ik on are school district buses we have a new 2025 bus not a week old and the ac out on it 😅😂 bluebird what y’all doing
Is it a 2026 bluebird vision
Okay that's not even supposed to exist yet
I think the blue bird vision was designed for younger shorter drivers
This is very unfortunate to hear. My district runs IC CE gas units (primarily 2019-2020 with some 22s, 23s, and 24s). They work, but quality could be a lot better especially considering the lower mileage of our fleet (ranging between 30,000 and 50,000 miles. We need a new wheelchair 35+5 bus, and I did make the suggestion to try Blue Bird. This video is making me second guessing that.
I take you will be buying International for a while? I know you are far from a Thomas fan.
Also, on an unrelated note, who is staffed in maintenance side of your school's transportation department? Our district only has two guys that are stetched thin due to other roles that are not transportation related, and I am trying go make suggestions on how we should be staffed so maintenance is done more timely.
@@Michael-ty4pz me. I’m the director of transportation/mechanic/driver. IC for us for a while.
Are 2020 buses better then the 2025
I can't really speak for Blue Bird but for Thomas, yes
@@alifewithtay514 they kinda were.
9:28 The best school bus that they ever produce bluebird was 1989 Ford
B700 series they need to go back to that body style cluster panel and dash which was all metal that had plenty of space and room they just need to go back to that whole design from the 1989 series and go back to the Ford chassis the Chevy chassis GMC chassis international chassis motor and transmission! Put manual transmissions back in these buses bring back that setup and people buy more of their product The fact that Thomas bluebird and that other company whatever it is ICS or whatever it is started doing their own setup their own packaging motor and stuff it sucks! They want to make quality product bring back the original setups where it was GMC Chevy Ford that powered these buses where it was easy for the shops to fix the buses they can go to the local dealer and get a part have the bus up and running That same day! When I grew up there was no air conditioning on the school buses it was ruled the window down get air pop the roof hatch and that was it and there was none of this fancy technology that's on the buses now no child left behind crap none of that do you know what we had A white strip magnet that hanged at the back of the door each stop the driver had to get up sweep out the school bus at the end of each stop of the route the very last drop off at the end of the route driver had to get up go sweep out the bus from the front to the back!!! Back in the school buses didn't even have radios there was nothing so these buses have gotten way too comfort features honestly they just need to go back to what made the company money and profitable and people desiring these bus Go back to the original drivetrains GMC Chevy Ford international and consider bringing in Dodge we would call them pullers if the motor was mounted up front and if it was in the back flat nose school bus we called them pushers those were the only real bluebird bluebird buses that were their design only which were the pushers and the flat nose! Bring those designs back bring that quality back from the 1985 to 1995 And they will see an increase of sales be honest wouldn't you love to see a school bus with the Chevy front-end again! Go take a drive see if you can find a 1989 bluebird Ford b700 series school bus see how much room it has and how it drives and then go find a Chevy or GMC model Tell me how much more comfortable they are compared to what you're driving now and tell me if you wouldn't like seeing that same design up-to-date now I promise you you will!
#1 - it’s a blue bird
What year is it
@@DekuWarrior1029 2023 built in 2022
I have always drove international. Since moving to a new company 5 yrs ago that’s all we have are BB and I hate them. Poorly designed. Every bird I’ve driven rattles, the drivers area are tiny, I’m 415 pounds and I’m crammed behind the wheel, I had so much room in my internationals. The lights they use under those switches get HOT. I’ve burnt my finger on them cause of the hotness of the lights. The switches are crap, I’ve had many of them brake. I liked the older display where u can change the color of the dash lights. Not a fan of the new crap. And they need to do a better job at a cup holder cause what they have sucks, they brake if something is to heavy in them.
They need to bring a team of engineers from International over and let them show how to design a bus.
bluebird of crappiness
My district is buying gas Models of this bus... HATE IT!!!
Try to order a gas or propane bluebird vision.
They aren't any better. Build quality still sucks and sometimes those engines like to shoot out spark plugs. I have seen people already replacing the 7.3s for various reasons.
@@football11248 heck no. The new 7.3s have lifter failures that wipe out the cams. And the transmissions are garbage too
It’s a Blue Bird, the whole thing is junk
Yeah I prefer the extinct buses better
Wow new busses are a piece of junk
why'd you buy it then
Bluebirds are the worst peices of shit busses on the road I love my 2025 Ic international
I disagree but to each their own
@@Bluebirdvision91 even though bluebirds have issues like mentioned in the video?
It’s ugly on the front
PoS bus