It’s relative though. While recording to an external recorder might not improve upon the cameras ability to capture high quality video, if using an external recorder means I capture footage in a lossless format where the alternative is a highly compressed format, then the choice to use an external recorder has resulted in an “improved” image.
I've just started shooting on the Video Assist 12g today. It seems the BRAW playback is much smoother than internal h.265main10, but I haven't pushed the BRAW image in grading yet. Do you find a big difference when *pushing* a grade with BRAW vs. internal 10-bit compressed codecs? Do you find any difference in keying BRAW vs. 10-bit compressed codecs? Thanks for the video!
Thanks for your feedback. As far as I can tell resolve does a great job in keying regardless the bit depth but sure more colour information always helps. I’ve recently shot a project on the Komodo in Raw and some shots on the R6 using internal h.265 4K footage. When doing the grade I noticed a lot of colour artefacts in the canon footage. This is definitely due to the high compression the Red Footage worked flawlessly. And yes bad conditions mixed overhead lighting caused the canon to not keep up. I believe I wouldn’t have these problems if I would have recorded with the video Assist in ProRes.
Is your conclusion still holds true when using Z Cam E2 products, since it's one of the key features the list in the camera description: “12-Bit ProRes RAW recording over HDMI to the Ninja V 5” HDR monitor-recorder” ?
In general yes. In some cases you do get ProRes Raw but also ProRes Raw doesn’t offer the same adjustment amongst all the cameras which are supporting it. And since Resolve is standard for a professional colour workflow it’s not really a broad solution. So yes 12 bit is definitely better but my point is that many people are believing that an external recorder does everything better without truly understanding how it works and what limitations it has.
@@pauleporterdp Thanks for the fast reply! I am going to test myself, but that would mean it's not as good as the S1h. Not sure if you have tested it, but BRAW is quite different from prores RAW. I tested both on my S1h, but the proresRAW was so much more organic and less 'polished'.
Did you test the Canon R6 with Ninja V, did you get any overheating issues? how long can you record in 4k 30? i do a lot of interviews and im thinking of getting the combo.
I have Sony A6400 camera that is only capable of recording 4k in 30fps. Does this give me the ability to record live in 4k 60fps? Also is there a cheaper adapter or device that does the same thing without the monitor if so? Thanks in advance.
No as said the recorder is only capable of what the camera can output. So you want be able to record 4K 60. And yes you always need the recorder monitor and they are expensive and there is no cheap option
But isnt the image better when a cam internally only records 420 8bits but externally 422 8 or even10bit? Depending on the camera, for example the Nikon Z6/Z7 or Canon 5D mark IV? Or even the Fujifilm XT3/4? And thanks for the video it triggered some questions for me
Thanks for watching. Yes due to the better codec you gain more flexibility in post for color grading and certain tasks. And sure 10 bit is much better than 8 bit for sure. I meant that many people think of external recorders as devices which will turn your dslr into a "cinema camera" but that's not the case. :)
@@pauleporterdp Thanks for the video. I agree that 10bit is better than 8bit, and won't give us a "cinema camera", but can the NIJA bring 'some' cameras like the Fuji XT-4 (Shoots 4K) up to at least Netflix Standards? I'm trying to find out, but it seems rather murky.
hi paul I watched all your videos about the Zcam E2F6 and you convinced me I will probably buy it in the next few days I am on davinci resolve so I am looking for information about the Zcam E2F6 and the monitor recorder that goes well what do you advise me the blackmagic video assist and get Braw or the ninja 5 + and get proress raw that I should then convert to Cdng to import my images in davinci resolve I read that proress raw is better quality than Braw if you have any info I thank you in advance
Thanks for watching mate. So i think the process of capturing ProRes raw and then converting it to cdng is a very time consuming process and cdng are heavy big files. So if you’re working in Davinci resolve I would advise to record BRAW it’s a fantastic Codec.
Is the waveform changing after applying your LUT still a thing? I just picked up at Atomos Shinobi and my waveform remains the same even after applying my lut.
Please clarify. Only the Ninja can send out the HDMI with the LUT applied? Which is great for the client monitor so they can see it with LUT. Thanks. Otherwise they see it flat.
No you misunderstood both can do that. But the Ninja applies the waveform with a LUT which isn’t desired since your waveform doesn’t show you the true raw waveform anymore
@@pauleporterdp Did you test it? Because when I wanted to buy it several months ago, the 12G could not apply the LUT downstream, so I bought the Ninja, and it does it wonderfully for my FX3. Did Blackmkagic fix this with firmware? Can you confirm that the 12G can send the HDMI out with the LUT applied? Thanks.
Just one observation, on the original Sony A7s, the Atomos Ninja V records 4K as ProRes which the camera cannot internally, so that is actually better image and resolution.
Yes the Codec is better and gives you a little bit more information in post. My point is that many people believe an external recorder makes the camera better more dynamic range etc but that’s not true.
About image quality is only half truth... While rolling shutter example is true of course, a recorder after allow you tu record 4.2.2 while some cameras only support for 4.2.0 internally. Add to this that most cameras will have some bitrate limitations depending on the resolution and frame rate while having better options only available though HDMI. For RUclips videos it won't make a huge difference but for more intense work that can be grade by a specialist it can make a huge difference.
Thank you for the review But you can’t tell a difference between internal and external recording if you are shooting a static image You have to stress the codec by recording high frequency moving images like trees, foliage and water ripples Internal codec will break right away compared to external recording with higher bit rates But again thank you for the informative review 🙏
Imo, safety aspect regarding HDMI is overstressed. There are ways to secure the connection. Prores raw is the way if you want maximum quality from these small cameras. Internal 4:2:2 simply is not as good for more extensive color grading. Agree that BM recorder/monitor is better than atomos except that it rcords in BM raw which is a bit worse quality compared to prores raw. Of course, prores raw unfortunately needs additional steps in order to use the footage in Resolve.
I have the Atomos Ninja V. It does loads of things my cameras cannot do, so does it make my shooting better quality ? Yes ! The results I can obtain by using my external recorder far surpass what my camera can capture internally. 1. The Codec: With my Ninja V I can capture 12 Bit ProRes Raw or ProRes Raw HQ, and this looks way superior to what I can record in camera. 2. The Audio: I can only record in 16 bit 48 KHz audio in camera, and my in camera mic pre-amps are not great. However I can capture 24 Bit 48 KHz in the Ninja V, and its mic/line input pre-amps sound really superior. I am aware of the shift in color science in the Ninja V, but this is easily corrected in post.
i just got the Panasonic S5 and i dont know. i have thought about the video assist monitor mostly to see the HDR10 image on the monitor not for the higher res or datarate. the V Log video files at 4K are at 150mb/sec from the camera and even if you convert them later to just 20mb/sec they look amazing. why the hell do i need 300+mb/sec from Black Magic raw ? ;) 300mb/sec is what i think is the lowest datarate from Black magic raw LOL it seems overkill to me. i have already tested out a few black magic raw files from the S5 in Davinci Resolve. they are still noisy as hell which needs correction. quality wise i see no point using RAW files compared to V Log from the camera.
Unfortunately the Ninja V is superior for your purpose. Ive been super frustrated with the fact that the video assist doesn't even allow for an HDR preview on log footage. It's so dissapointing that a full fledged HDR display, with HDR in the product name, would have such an oversight for HDR production. I guess they just used the gimmick. You can only view HLG HDR in real time with the Panasonic S5. Whereas the Ninja allows for HDR PQ preview on log footage. I regret not getting it. Nobody mentions it because almost nobody on RUclips actually cares to figure out HDR. It's sad.
Some cakes actually will have improved quality from shooting external, just depends on the camera. For my camera (Nikon Z6) intensely it only shoots rec.709 8-bit 4:2:0 in .mov or .mp4. Externally it can shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 in log or raw so an external recorder would actually improve color detail and dynamic range.
I believe that you are wrong here. Perhaps because you aren’t dealing with full frame cinema sensors. You’re talking about 8bit (thin) HDMI vs 10+bit SDI. You ask why get an external recorder? Because some cinema cameras literally require them because they do not record internally. However, as for a DSLR, perhaps you are correct
If I don't want to buy a new camera yet want to get past 30 minute recording limit, which actually I can't even due because my Sony a 6300 overheats... an external recorder is a life saver.
2tb ssd drives for $150 that I can work from for video editing and avoidance of camera overheating in 4k60 by being able to turn off my lcd screen and not recording to SD cards. So yeah, they’re worth every penny.
Atomos ninja despite being so praised is the only piece of gear that has ever failed me on a shoot. I got the kangaroo symbol while recording and it wrecked the best shot of the day 🤯 What surprised me even more is It had the super expensive "Austrian" Angel bird ssd on it and that thing costs like 5 times more than regular PC 2.5 Inch SSD storage from not even a low brand, and I have yet to see a single ssd in a pc fail on me despite them doing tens of times more work than an external recorder could ever do. I was so excited to finally shoot with "Pro gear like the atomos" and was left so disappointed.
Oh mate I’m sorry that this happened to you. My friend loaned me the Ninja and he also was not happy with it after one year but at least it didn’t fail on him
this video needs to be updated or replaced. These days, the biggest reason to use an external recorded, is that certain cameras (SONY!) can output 12bit video.. but only externally.
Thanks for the clarification this was really Hype :)
Ha ha you’re welcome and thanks for watching :)
It’s relative though. While recording to an external recorder might not improve upon the cameras ability to capture high quality video, if using an external recorder means I capture footage in a lossless format where the alternative is a highly compressed format, then the choice to use an external recorder has resulted in an “improved” image.
I've just started shooting on the Video Assist 12g today.
It seems the BRAW playback is much smoother than internal h.265main10, but I haven't pushed the BRAW image in grading yet. Do you find a big difference when *pushing* a grade with BRAW vs. internal 10-bit compressed codecs? Do you find any difference in keying BRAW vs. 10-bit compressed codecs?
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for your feedback. As far as I can tell resolve does a great job in keying regardless the bit depth but sure more colour information always helps. I’ve recently shot a project on the Komodo in Raw and some shots on the R6 using internal h.265 4K footage.
When doing the grade I noticed a lot of colour artefacts in the canon footage. This is definitely due to the high compression the Red Footage worked flawlessly. And yes bad conditions mixed overhead lighting caused the canon to not keep up. I believe I wouldn’t have these problems if I would have recorded with the video Assist in ProRes.
Is your conclusion still holds true when using Z Cam E2 products, since it's one of the key features the list in the camera description: “12-Bit ProRes RAW recording over HDMI to the Ninja V 5” HDR monitor-recorder” ?
In general yes.
In some cases you do get ProRes Raw but also ProRes Raw doesn’t offer the same adjustment amongst all the cameras which are supporting it.
And since Resolve is standard for a professional colour workflow it’s not really a broad solution. So yes 12 bit is definitely better but my point is that many people are believing that an external recorder does everything better without truly understanding how it works and what limitations it has.
Thanks for this! Since you also own the S5iix: how is the external RAW quality of it? The internal video looks a little digital to me.
Thanks for watching. So with BRAW the image is as internally. Only the colours look a little more rich.
@@pauleporterdp Thanks for the fast reply! I am going to test myself, but that would mean it's not as good as the S1h. Not sure if you have tested it, but BRAW is quite different from prores RAW. I tested both on my S1h, but the proresRAW was so much more organic and less 'polished'.
Thank you so much, this actually helped me into making an informed decision
Thanks for watching mate :)
Very nice review. Thank you.
Thanks mate I’m glad that you like it
Did you test the Canon R6 with Ninja V, did you get any overheating issues? how long can you record in 4k 30? i do a lot of interviews and im thinking of getting the combo.
I’ve tested it with the Ninja and BM assist. There is no overheating and no recording limit. But as said I wouldn’t choose the Ninja as a recorder
@@pauleporterdp both screens (camera and ninja) always on, right? There is no need to disable camera screen to avoid the overheating
I have Sony A6400 camera that is only capable of recording 4k in 30fps. Does this give me the ability to record live in 4k 60fps?
Also is there a cheaper adapter or device that does the same thing without the monitor if so?
Thanks in advance.
No as said the recorder is only capable of what the camera can output. So you want be able to record 4K 60.
And yes you always need the recorder monitor and they are expensive and there is no cheap option
But isnt the image better when a cam internally only records 420 8bits but externally 422 8 or even10bit? Depending on the camera, for example the Nikon Z6/Z7 or Canon 5D mark IV? Or even the Fujifilm XT3/4?
And thanks for the video it triggered some questions for me
Thanks for watching. Yes due to the better codec you gain more flexibility in post for color grading and certain tasks.
And sure 10 bit is much better than 8 bit for sure.
I meant that many people think of external recorders as devices which will turn your dslr into a "cinema camera" but that's not the case. :)
@@pauleporterdp Thanks for the video. I agree that 10bit is better than 8bit, and won't give us a "cinema camera", but can the NIJA bring 'some' cameras like the Fuji XT-4 (Shoots 4K) up to at least Netflix Standards? I'm trying to find out, but it seems rather murky.
hi paul
I watched all your videos about the Zcam E2F6 and you convinced me I will probably buy it in the next few days
I am on davinci resolve so I am looking for information about the Zcam E2F6 and the monitor recorder that goes well
what do you advise me the blackmagic video assist and get Braw or the ninja 5 + and get proress raw that I should then convert to Cdng to import my images in davinci resolve
I read that proress raw is better quality than Braw
if you have any info I thank you in advance
Thanks for watching mate.
So i think the process of capturing ProRes raw and then converting it to cdng is a very time consuming process and cdng are heavy big files.
So if you’re working in Davinci resolve I would advise to record BRAW it’s a fantastic Codec.
@@pauleporterdp thank you bro for a speed answer I think I will go with Braw
Very informative! Btw...what is the name of the background music?
Thanks mate. Not sure what music I used here but it is pretty sure from epidemic sound :)
Is the waveform changing after applying your LUT still a thing? I just picked up at Atomos Shinobi and my waveform remains the same even after applying my lut.
That’s good to hear. The Atomos I had in the video was loaned so I can’t test it anymore.
Maybe Atomos fixed it via firmware :)
Is Nikon z30, zfc and Sony vz e-10 compatible to this external thing?
As long as it Outputs an image signal via hdmi yes ;)
Please clarify. Only the Ninja can send out the HDMI with the LUT applied? Which is great for the client monitor so they can see it with LUT. Thanks. Otherwise they see it flat.
No you misunderstood both can do that. But the Ninja applies the waveform with a LUT which isn’t desired since your waveform doesn’t show you the true raw waveform anymore
@@pauleporterdp Did you test it? Because when I wanted to buy it several months ago, the 12G could not apply the LUT downstream, so I bought the Ninja, and it does it wonderfully for my FX3. Did Blackmkagic fix this with firmware? Can you confirm that the 12G can send the HDMI out with the LUT applied? Thanks.
Have you tired external recording on Komodo? Would be great to have buck up + monitor as only one internal SD.Thank You
No I haven’t and if you use a good CFast card you don’t need to worry
@@pauleporterdp I have the original 512 GB from red but I have red some issue on fbook because shit can happen ( Murphy law 😂)
Just one observation, on the original Sony A7s, the Atomos Ninja V records 4K as ProRes which the camera cannot internally, so that is actually better image and resolution.
Yes the Codec is better and gives you a little bit more information in post. My point is that many people believe an external recorder makes the camera better more dynamic range etc but that’s not true.
Does the camera autofocus works when using external recorder?
Yes sure
@@pauleporterdp thanks for the reply
About image quality is only half truth... While rolling shutter example is true of course, a recorder after allow you tu record 4.2.2 while some cameras only support for 4.2.0 internally. Add to this that most cameras will have some bitrate limitations depending on the resolution and frame rate while having better options only available though HDMI. For RUclips videos it won't make a huge difference but for more intense work that can be grade by a specialist it can make a huge difference.
Thank you for the review
But you can’t tell a difference between internal and external recording if you are shooting a static image
You have to stress the codec by recording high frequency moving images like trees, foliage and water ripples
Internal codec will break right away compared to external recording with higher bit rates
But again thank you for the informative review 🙏
Thanks man, yes I’ve tested that and of course pro res is a much better Codec. The still image was just about to show the colour difference. ;)
Imo, safety aspect regarding HDMI is overstressed. There are ways to secure the connection. Prores raw is the way if you want maximum quality from these small cameras. Internal 4:2:2 simply is not as good for more extensive color grading. Agree that BM recorder/monitor is better than atomos except that it rcords in BM raw which is a bit worse quality compared to prores raw. Of course, prores raw unfortunately needs additional steps in order to use the footage in Resolve.
Thanks for your feedback :)
Does the Blackmagic Video Assist work with Sony cameras?
Yes of course ;)
@@pauleporterdp Thank you.
Only Black Magic RAW is not supported
I have the Atomos Ninja V. It does loads of things my cameras cannot do, so does it make my shooting better quality ? Yes ! The results I can obtain by using my external recorder far surpass what my camera can capture internally. 1. The Codec: With my Ninja V I can capture 12 Bit ProRes Raw or ProRes Raw HQ, and this looks way superior to what I can record in camera. 2. The Audio: I can only record in 16 bit 48 KHz audio in camera, and my in camera mic pre-amps are not great. However I can capture 24 Bit 48 KHz in the Ninja V, and its mic/line input pre-amps sound really superior. I am aware of the shift in color science in the Ninja V, but this is easily corrected in post.
Thanks for your feedback
i just got the Panasonic S5 and i dont know.
i have thought about the video assist monitor mostly to see the HDR10 image on the monitor not for the higher res or datarate.
the V Log video files at 4K are at 150mb/sec from the camera and even if you convert them later to just 20mb/sec they look amazing.
why the hell do i need 300+mb/sec from Black Magic raw ? ;)
300mb/sec is what i think is the lowest datarate from Black magic raw LOL
it seems overkill to me.
i have already tested out a few black magic raw files from the S5 in Davinci Resolve.
they are still noisy as hell which needs correction.
quality wise i see no point using RAW files compared to V Log from the camera.
Well it all depends on what you do.
Unfortunately the Ninja V is superior for your purpose. Ive been super frustrated with the fact that the video assist doesn't even allow for an HDR preview on log footage. It's so dissapointing that a full fledged HDR display, with HDR in the product name, would have such an oversight for HDR production. I guess they just used the gimmick. You can only view HLG HDR in real time with the Panasonic S5. Whereas the Ninja allows for HDR PQ preview on log footage. I regret not getting it. Nobody mentions it because almost nobody on RUclips actually cares to figure out HDR. It's sad.
You should try ADT-Link HDMI cable ;)
Thanks for your feedback
Some cakes actually will have improved quality from shooting external, just depends on the camera. For my camera (Nikon Z6) intensely it only shoots rec.709 8-bit 4:2:0 in .mov or .mp4. Externally it can shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 in log or raw so an external recorder would actually improve color detail and dynamic range.
Thanks for your feedback. Yes certain cameras do output a better signal than what they are able to capture internally
I believe that you are wrong here. Perhaps because you aren’t dealing with full frame cinema sensors. You’re talking about 8bit (thin) HDMI vs 10+bit SDI.
You ask why get an external recorder? Because some cinema cameras literally require them because they do not record internally. However, as for a DSLR, perhaps you are correct
If I don't want to buy a new camera yet want to get past 30 minute recording limit, which actually I can't even due because my Sony a 6300 overheats... an external recorder is a life saver.
In that case true
2tb ssd drives for $150 that I can work from for video editing and avoidance of camera overheating in 4k60 by being able to turn off my lcd screen and not recording to SD cards. So yeah, they’re worth every penny.
Shoot on Cine cameras they are worth every Penny ☺️
Bit of a grammar issue with the title. I think you meant "Does an external recorder make a camera better"? :)
Oh thanks will quickly correct this :)
Its not HDMI problem that is falling of, but Canons stupit HDMI mini port..
Yes the micro hdmi is a problem in itself but compared to sdi hdmi is a very fragile Connection
Atomos ninja despite being so praised is the only piece of gear that has ever failed me on a shoot. I got the kangaroo symbol while recording and it wrecked the best shot of the day 🤯
What surprised me even more is It had the super expensive "Austrian" Angel bird ssd on it and that thing costs like 5 times more than regular PC 2.5 Inch SSD storage from not even a low brand, and I have yet to see a single ssd in a pc fail on me despite them doing tens of times more work than an external recorder could ever do.
I was so excited to finally shoot with "Pro gear like the atomos" and was left so disappointed.
Oh mate I’m sorry that this happened to you. My friend loaned me the Ninja and he also was not happy with it after one year but at least it didn’t fail on him
Not quite sure, but I think the Ninja is capable of FHD 120p and the Blackmagic just FHD 60p...
Thanks man yes indeed that's true :)
BRAW for the win.
For sure
this video needs to be updated or replaced. These days, the biggest reason to use an external recorded, is that certain cameras (SONY!) can output 12bit video.. but only externally.
The video assists just got a price recuction of $200
Nice 👍🏻