📈If anyone would like to recreate my curve: 63 Hz & below = 0 dB 80 Hz = -1.4 dB 100 Hz = -2.9 dB 125 Hz = -4.2 dB 160 Hz = -6 dB 200 Hz = -3 dB 250 Hz = -4.5 dB 315 Hz = -3 dB 400 Hz = -3.9 dB 500 Hz = -4.8 dB 630 Hz = -6 dB 800 Hz = -4.5 dB 1k Hz = -3.3 dB 1.25k Hz = -4dB 1.6k Hz = -4.3 dB 2k Hz = -6 dB 2.5k Hz = -4.5 dB 3.15k Hz = -3.6 dB 4k Hz = -1.9 dB 5k Hz & above = 0 dB
Dave Natale is a legendary LIVE sound mixer. I think you’re missing the fundamental point of his video. He’s speaking very specifically about clarity in drums by cutting 160Hz and adjusting the 2-3kHz range for pain threshold when delivering program as loud as possible. Which is his signature sound. To apply this universally outside of a FOH live sound application and for all genres of music and volume levels is doing yourself a disservice. Especially in a studio mixing environment where a full spectrum of information needs to be represented. I think Dave was quite clear about not doing this outside of his very specific gear, genre and volume scenario.
Exactly the video is so pointless, if one, being a live mix engineer or studio mix engineer don't understand the facts that upper midrange causes harshness and bass & lower midrange causes mud, than he/she should go back to Lesson 1. And of course there is no "magic" curve, every space is different, every mix is different, every SONG is different, different keys, different timbres... I mean, come on...
Started watching this on a random impulse RUclips click while I was eating, and I was already more than halfway through the video when I finally looked down and recognized your name... I'm already using a ton of your music in an RPG Maker game that I'm developing, but I'd never come across your channel before until now, lol.
I checked out the original video and found what I think, is an even more accurate frequency spectrum by analyzing the brief image of his physical mixer. I spent a lot of time re-crafting the details of this, and am pretty sure it's about 95% accurate: 80 Hz & below = 0 dB 100 Hz = -2.0 dB 125 Hz = -4.0 dB 160 Hz = -6.0 dB 200 Hz = -4.0 dB 250 Hz = -3.0 dB 315 Hz = -2.5 dB 400 Hz = -2.5 dB 500 Hz = -2.0 dB 630 Hz = -2.5 dB 800 Hz = -3.0 dB 1k Hz = -3.0 dB 1.25k Hz = -3.0 dB 1.6k Hz = -3.0 dB 2k Hz = -2.5 dB 2.5k Hz = -3.5 dB 3.15k Hz = -2.0 dB 4k Hz = -1.0 dB 5k Hz & above = 0 dB
Thx for this vid. I missed the interview even though I am a Beato fan. I have to say this technique works really, really well. The Kick and Bass become so clear and present and all the mud, which I didn't know was there, disappeared. The A/B of this technique is a little disconcerting when you first try it but after about 2 minutes of listening and then A/Bing again, you will instantly come to hear how clear this technique makes everything. Excellent video. Thx.
I mix FOH at the church with Steven and he sent me this. I tried it last Sunday and it was insane how much better the mix was! Can’t thank you enough brother! 🙏🏼
@@markiethetiger2461 was is great just at first or are you still using it, really interested to see what people are learning over time about this curve? all the best
Keep in mind he stated this eq curve is specifically for mixing live sound REALLY loud. As the volume gets higher, your ears become more sensitive to the high-mids, as plotted in the Fletcher Munson/equal loudness curve. His eq curve mitigates this effect.
@@StevenMelin I tried your eq settings and compared it to just adding a 9db low shelf at 50hz and a 9db high shelf around 5000 (and then matched the output levels). It sounds quite close.
When you MASTER you are making songs LOUDER and when u turn up the volume on ur music this EQ curve works perfect because LOUD mastered music and LOUD live music are both LOUD. So it works on mastering too. Ive been mastering for several years and I did it thru trial and error. Nothing on youtube would work and this eq curve is sonething close to what ive been doing and works well due to getting song loud and then eq n compressing it into the limiter.
@@AP530 again, keep in mind this is in a live environment. This eq is only on the P.A. His mix is not getting treated this way. So the stream and the recording doesn’t have this eq setting. To compare your mastering to a live mixing environment is outside my mind. Your audience will never ever be standing in front a 30 stack PA system (that they’re in control of) blasting your masters, to justify making such eq changes to someone’s mix (even if they were PA owners, it would be better to put the setting on their PA so headphone and boombox consumers aren’t affected). This is just to protect the audience from super high listening volumes. And if your master was to be played on a system like his, with your eq and his eq, what would your song sound like? His example was only for monitor.
I used this idea on my home theater setup. It cleans up the mud and takes away some of the painful frequencies. I know a home theater is nothing like a JBL Vertec system or an EAW Anya/Otto system but the concept works well.
This is why Pultec was so popular, it bases on this EQ curve “Smiley Face” or “V/U” shape. To balance a mix in Body because human hearing does need a help to perceive low frequencies, and on highs where the “vowel” area is and a gentle lift in the area is soothing for our ears, as long as we don’t push it a lot. At the end the goal is not to boost or cut individual frequencies but seeing it as a whole, if we see all the spectrum: A lift on bass frequencies human ears appreciate a lik help with, and a soothing mid/high range (vowel/formant area) both of them higher compared to the “muddy” area (150-300Hz)
Yes, but you don't need a Pultec to make a smiley face. You can make approximately the same smiley shape with any 3- or 4-band EQ. Any old mixing desk would let you cut the midrange while boosting the bass and treble/air. It's just handy to be able to sweep the mid-band to a particular frequency (e.g. 160Hz) where you want the greatest attenuation. (The Pultec naturally made quite a sharp cut in an ideal place if you did attenuation at the same time as boosting the bass). I think those 30+ band EQs are only really useful in a live context where there might be some weird resonances. Thousands of smash-hit records were made on SSL desks with only a few EQ knobs set to produce simple "smiley face" effects.
Thanks for your remarkable insights. I too saw the Natale - Beato video, but wrongly assumed it was a technique limited to live music / big venue / loud volume situations. You took the time and applied the intellectual curiosity to test it in a recorded music / studio venue / reasonable volume situation. You are quite right that this technique has a dramatic, positive, impact on mixing songs. I very much appreciate your work on this.
This is interesting. Often these frequencies are cut off in one way or another when mixing, so it is worth trying to mix this curve in the right proportion. Thanks for sharing this.
Ah, this is brilliant! I've recreated your GEQ settings and it sounds brilliant! I also discovered how awesome GEQ is! If you set the range to 0 and then dial it up, you just stop when it sounds good! It keeps all proportions! Thank you and Dave and Rick!
@@ProDoucher At any professional level in sound, it should be assumed that the PA has been rung out pre-sound check. My above comment takes that for granted.
This is something you do subconsciously in Electronic Dance Music especially if you are mixing for headphone music or trying to get loud with out paining for big EDC or Ultra shows. Only problem is processing power and time someone has to make a perfect loud yet destroyed mixes Love the info
This is interesting. My immediate thought was, "But I don't want to have a the same curve applied if my conscious decisions about these areas may also be changing," so I set up a preset in Soothe 2 to add extra processing to resonances in these points and adjusted the Q of each node to cover a similar area to the curve. This makes a positive difference to every premaster I've put through it so far (more subtle than the EQ, of course, but maybe better in the long run?). [edit] 5k and above is NOT beyond human hearing, wdym? As for doing the EQ curve instead, I made one working to -6dB with the mix at 100% so that it can be blended. I think the thing to do is start with the EQ's mix at 100, A/B the Bypass and listen for which parts it's negatively affecting, and then keep A/Bing as you bring the EQ's mix down until it's barely affecting those parts. You'll probably still be at about 50-75 of that curve, so you can definitely still hear it cutting into those problem areas quite a bit.
Cool experiment! I’m still playing around with this myself, so the point of this vid was to share the curve and see if anyone else is experiencing the same awesome results 😅
I've spent the last several years trying to get my music sound as polished as the professionals, and most of the learning curve I have found is EQing. I stopped using ozone a couple of years ago and found I get better results training my ears to EQ properly. I just downloaded soothe 2 and that combined with what I've learnt with EQing has made me achieve my goal. I always cut around 2k and from 200 500 hz, remove sub from anything that's not sub and anything else depends on the sound I'm using or track I'm mixing. Interesting video, corolates with what I've learnt.
Awesome! EQ truly is the foundation of mixing. I’ve been working on it a lot recently. So crucial. You’re right, night and day improvement. I believe hi-hat is a higher fundamental than 2k. Also I think you meant above like 15k is the range people can’t usually hear. Loved the cue too!!
wow, must have missed that video. But I've been applying a notch at 4k a lot lately, it really helped my listening experience. It's interesting this curve cuts so much at 2k though and the sound still has intelligibility.
You're essentially adding volume so you think it sounds better. You're adding 6db across the board but only dipping out certain frequencies by 6 dB or less so there will be a net gain. This is why you can put it on almost any mix and you think it sounds better. If you normalized for volume it would paint a different picture. (try it, you will come to find the benefit or lack of benefit would relate more to the overall frequency balance of the mix) Also, there is no such thing as good and bad frequencies. You're hornswoggling yourself with volume, This is a very classic mixing pitfall. One good rule of thumb is if it works on everything, you can bet you're adding volume. Sorry to have to call you out on this but you're pushing bad information that most people on here will not have the experience to know better. This is why so many people are universally responding to how crazy it is that this works on every mix. Everyones just adding volume to their mix hehe. Great channel overall though !
Indeed. That 6dB boost after only cutting some frequencies and mostly by less than 6dB just means the whole thing will sound louder, which usually sounds better. (it could also cause clipping). As I understand it, you only need 30 bands of EQ for mixing live music at very loud volumes on very large speakers. This is because our brains/ears react to sounds differently at different volumes. When music is played very loud, the mid-range sounds much harsher/fatiguing than it does at normal volume, so the live mix engineer needs to cut the mids more than a studio/mastering engineer does for recordings. Similarly, if you're at a festival, you want the speakers to pump out tons of bass. You don't want that on your home speakers or on the radio. In normal mixing, you want the midrange to be relatively loud, to make vocals and mid-range melodic instruments intelligible.
Many people here are forgetting that after applying this eq you still need to EQ each individual channel to for each instrument or vocal, then you get the results he is talking about. The reason it works for steven in a Studio aetting is because his tracks are already mixed how he want them, he just added this EQ and turned it up.
Also, when you scoop out like that leaving low end, you lose headroom, not gain it. I agree with the clown below, that there is a lot of , I won"t call it bad, but certainly misinformed, and more so, misapplied.
Just tried this and wow! I used the Kirchhoff eq and tested this. 4 db seemed to work for the track I was working on but seeing how this can make that drastic of a change in clarity is astounding. Thanks for sharing!
Right there with you! Yeah, it doesn’t always need to be so extreme. For Dave Natale, he mentioned that he usually goes -15dB at the lowest for massive stadiums, which makes sense with all the low end build up with subs and thousands of bodies in a room / hundreds of feet from stage to ears. But in the studio, I’ve found 3 to 6 dB to be the sweet spot so far 🔥
This curve seems to keep the mix in a sonic place and then even after mix and effects etc ,,, seems to kind of automatically keep things within a happy range to the ear... on its face it also seems to help with masking issues in those ranges... been using it for a while on just about all my mixes.... and it doesn't matter if you mix in mono or stereo from my experience using a curve like this... I have dynamics built into mine but I can adjust to the uniqueness of the mix as I go.. Great to hear your vid....
I saw the original video from Rick beato and I was intrigued but I never got around to testing it. Thanks for the video because it did remind me to get around to actually testing this. Also thanks for the EQ settings in the comments. This is going to be fun!
My buddy Billy Decker always just tells me, "Find the pain, reduce the gain". It sounds so simple...because it is, but it works. Get rid of the annoying stuff, and let everything else shine through.
im not a fan of this as a blanket eq for actual song mixes it's clearer but loses the weight i could see that being useful in a live setting. 160 300 700 and 2k are all good places to check anyway
This method will work if you gain stage properly... Furthermore you do have to consider your high pass and low pass filters ... And lastly it is per stem... So you will ultimately need to mix to taste for each independent stem and then understand that you cannot introduce the same amount on the mix bus or the master bus because it will further compress and distort the sound. So you need to decide if you're going to use it on the mix bus only or each individual stem
ok, I tested this out! Its pretty darn interesting. I'm going to test this out for a while longer, until I know its a good way to mix or a waste of time. Either way its fun to try out new things.
This is well known in studio mixing also. They call it a scooped mix. And yes it can definitely make things sound more pristine and clear. But unfortunately you’re also removing the most important part of a mix which is the midrange. My recommendation is to definitely study this and learn how it works, but in the end, you wanna know how to dial in that mid range. Learn how to mix the mid range correctly and you’ll have much better mixes.
Midrange maybe the heart and soul of music, and the easiest to hear, but this is also the reason it can be so ear grating, so this totally makes sense, with the gain staging
If I can add to this, IMO this curve is honestly a super nice touch to a mastering chain. BUT, it doesn’t negate a proper mixdown. There’s always moving parts and if two instruments are clashing somewhere, fixing in the master chain with this is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound: it may hide the problem but it didn’t fix it. Other thing I feel worth mentioning is that when I set these up in my Pro-Q, I really dialed in the Q and dB/oct, and you HAVE to use the gain scale to dial it in.
I'm a big fan of "scooped" masters or what used to be called the "disco smile" that emphasised kick, bass, and hi-hats (at the expense of vocals and mid-range instruments) as it made things sound groovier in the clubs and on the radio. I'm unlikely to make a severe cut at 160Hz though. Many of my favourite records from the '80s have 'ear-splitting' snares at around that frequency. It might be painful to hear them in a live setting without a good engineer utilizing his 30-band EQ to reduce their prominence at loud volume, but a lot of great records (by Madonna, Prince, Michael Jackson etc) would sound weird/terrible with their snares turned down by 6dB.
I've approximated the curve in the Ableton EQ using 8 bands, then put on every individual track and using the Scale % to adjust to taste so I can remove harshness without gutting the mix entirely. Works great! Thanks.
If you really want to try using a graphic EQ, there is a free one by Voxengo (makers of SPAN) called Marvel GEQ that has 16 bands, which is more than enough for mixing normal music. The 30-band models only really make sense for live settings where the speakers are playing VERY LOUD, which causes some frequencies to sound louder than they do when played at normal volume.
Your music has gotten so good! EQ is by far the most powerful mastering tool you have. 😎 (my credentials: Apple Digital Masters certified). You will find a HIGH LEVEL ABOVE THAT if you will focus on getting rid of RESONANCES your music.
A variation of this has been my go to curve for front of house for a while now. Got there mostly through trial and error. It's easy to find the mud and pain frequency's but it's easy to miss what should be there to maintain the energy of the music. I try to keep as much as the low mids in there as possible otherwise things can sound a bit dead. That's of course assuming you've got a tight fresh sounding system to work with.
Been doing this in Metal and hardcore production for awhile because of the amount of low end and chaos that needs to be controlled. But its done on the individual instruments not the whole mix buss
On the 1:17 sample it sounded way better with the EQ applied, but on the sample starting at 1:30 the EQ buried the "power" of the segment, but it did change it a lot, so "It's night and day" is true! I guess it shows that there is no blanket statement, but only preference. But cool video nonetheless, I was entertained a lot!
This is interesting because Ozone kept pulling 150-160hz out of my mixes, not much like -4db. Then you can solo that band and go directly to the instrument and pull it out for less possible phase issues. It was doing this to make the maximizer more optimal and to allow it to be spanked more. I would still keep Ozone, they were already doing this with there mastering assistant AI tech. There has to be a bit more science to this, involving the fletcher munson curve maybe. Wonder if Soothe can be set up to mimic most of these bands.
For all those people wondering about the Q settings: "For its 30 main bands, the GEQ Classic component uses “Proportional Q” filters. The Q value is proportional to the gain adjustment; increasing a band’s gain narrows the filter width." So it's hard to recreate those settings without a similar working plugin
@@StevenMelin hoping this works. I remember back in the day when starting in 2000 I use to boost the EQ, and used it as volume. I kind of stopped that, so this takes me back. Seems what you start with you should continue using.
Keep in mind that this EQ curve is for removing unwanted pain frequencies, not boosting anything. But because this will remove volume, you can boost it back with the output equal to the amount you removed (-6dB removal = 6dB output gain more or less).
@@StevenMelin yeah I find that helpful so I hope to try it. When I mix my personal music I have a certain way I do it. It might cripple and squeeze out the life of my mixes but trying is really all I can do.
Quite interesting, my first thought was oh "its just a smile eq", but hearing why the individual frequencies are treated that way, makes me wanna try it, will use it like you with a graphic eq that lets me set the range for the whole eq
Dave was talking about the drum EQ. Why would you ever remove so many frequencies from your full mix? And what does it have to do with Ozone? It's a great mastering tool if you know how to set it manually.
I watched the video as well but thought it was just for live mixing, definitely will try this but I think it shouldn’t be applied on the masterbus. Getting rid off these annoying frequencies on individual tracks would be a better approach imo. But that’s just a guess I have to try it out myself first lol 😊
What are you using to monitor? Those headphones presumably? It would help to know if you've monitored on different devices or in different settings for the purpose of the demo and assertions being made. So you're dipping the mid range frequencies (and cutting some specific frequencies), which, if those headphones are more emphasised in the mid range, effectively means the bass is being increased and the above 5k sparkly or airy frequencies may now stand out. Therefore the sum of your original mix (or simply the sound of the instrument preset), and the action of your monitoring device, and possibly your room, is being adjusted to allow less typically heard frequencies (with middy headphones) to be heard a bit more and give a fuller sound. Making such big adjustments to a mix may get results in one very specific set of circumstances, but presumably wouldn't translate to others, potentially giving very unpleasant results in other circumstances. The likelyhood is that the good results from this template curve has highlighted a bias in one or many of your variables. The original source material, despite providing some radical inspiration, was specifically referring to mixing the audio coming from drums in a live music setting, to reduce discomfort when the music is being played very loud. I've applied close to that curve to the eq on the amp for my front room hi fi system, and obtained great results! Great to try things, great to acknowledge their original use-case.
Great points & questions! In my situation, I’ve enjoyed applying this curve to numerous instrumental (soundtrack genre) tracks to great effect, auditioned on monitor / headphones / car / phone. Naturally this curve won’t improve bass-heavy genres like EDM / hip-hop, but in my world focusing mostly on punchy orchestral music, this does wonders. And as many have commented, it’s best to dial it in to the context. I have it as a preset at -6dB range & 6dB boost, but that’s just a starting point.
You can just listen to the mix and take away frequencies that are annoying. There’s no reason to cut it in this specific way for every song. Also 5k is nowhere near the limit of human hearing, that’s 20k
@@kenbeaupre9973 you won't believe it, this year i once did live sound with an analog system, and i used a graphic like the one with the faders for every frequency to tune the speakers 🤣🤣🤣
These frequencies are also the ones you need to perfectly translate your mix into small speakers (tv speakers, phone speakers, earbuds...). It's true that at first glance , listening to it in studio monitors or headphones it sounds "cleaner", you still have lows and highs, but if you get your music into a game or a film/TV show, the mixer will eq out your lows and highs to leave space for SFXs, so with your "EQ preset" your music will sound thin and poorly defined buried behind the dialogue and SFXs. It's true that the mid range can be ear piercing, but I don't think the solution is to just "attenuate" it in your sum. The midrange is the most important range to transtale your mix into any speaker and situation, it needs is to be controled, that means mixing carefully analysing which instruments are "clashing" and >building up< these freqencies, prioritise the ones which need in and trim these in the other ones that don't need it. If one specific instrument has infrequent nasty resonances when playing certain notes, dynamic or technique, you can use dynamic EQs to tame and control those moments. If you think 6dBs is "not too much", think that -6dBsFS is half as loud as 0dBFS, so every time you boost 6dBsFS you're making things double as loud, and everytime you attenuate 6dbFS you're making think half as loud. In the same way there's no recipes for composing, there's no recipes for mixing and mastering. EQing in mixing/mastering is about control, not about killing frequencies just becase "uh, those are BAD frequencies". There's not a thing such "bad frequencies". P.S.: I don't write this comment with the intention of offend or attack you, I think you're a great composer but this mixing advise is just bad advise.
Thats just resulting in the EQ smile curve.what used to be in car stereo and defined as "Loud" button usually. Btw I checked (with matching the loudness of course and not just adding 6db). I said, why not, it's probably nonsense but I'll check. It definitely ruined my mixes, each and every one of them😂 I am a mixing and mastering engineer so I guess if you get good sound already - dont do that because it'll ruin it.
Do you have this on The master or just the strings? I'm confused... Also whats a similar EQ plugin I can buy/download with this many bands? Fl studio does not have an EQ like that.
This makes perfect sense . . . Parametric is parametric . . . Live is music too 😂 . . . 160hz is indeed ugly . . . So is all that mid range 😂 . . . Thank you for bringing this out . . . On top of evrything . . . Your samples are already conpressed and eqed so this makes perfect sense . . .
Thanks for the video! I watched the interview and it was really interesting. I think he is doing kind of room calibration with this like Sonarworks for the arenas. Pretty genius especially if others are not doing this. But in principle it shouldnt be applicaple to mixing records, why not just calibrate your speakers? However I tried it and it made things sound more defined. But probably should pay more attention to those frequencies in the mix and not just on the mix bus/master?
I think this is far more than just room calibration! Yeah, we should always be careful not to use a “blanket” trick for all uses, but I think this is an incredible starting point that can be tweaked per track.
@@StevenMelin yeah, this could be a great starting point for mix. What makes me think its a kind of room calibration is that he said that he uses James Newton Howard & friends cd to do this. But yes, there might be something more to it but I think its definately kind of room calibration also. But the aim is probably just not flat but something that actually sounds roughly good and then he continues with individual mics and instruments. But I will definately also play more with this so thanks for bringing this up! 👍
So I tried a version of this last night and loved the result, I think the smart way to do this is similar to how Dave does it, his adjustment of this curve is dependant on the room/venue he's in so I think these "rules" can be applied in a mix dependant context. So I used a graphic eq last night, cut everything in between 80hz-5k to -6db, then based on his I "hate" 160hz, 630hz, 2-4k pain concepts started adding these frequencies back into the mix one slider at a time but making sure that the core freqs he mentions are relatively lower than the rest. Essentially using a similar curve to his but custom for my mix, I think the overall concept is still very useful for studio mixing if applied in this way instead of just being a preset. I mean there's no reason to cut -6 or -12db of 160hz out if it's not in your mix but looking at specific "problem" frequencies and testing reducing them judiciously makes sense
@@StevenMelin Thanks man and thanks for the inspiration to check out the concept! If I had only seen Rick's video I would have thought to myself that this technique could only apply to live sound :)
Wow for 44 years I thought I was the only one that did this😂 actually mine was slightly different I started a slight scoop a 2.5 to 6 k then slight slope up starting a 10k to 20k to give it a delicate high end without pain. Unfortunately most systems don't have what I call really high quality ultra high end, that has a long range throw. But I will say i could mix a very high Db show and my ears would never ring at the end of the night. Almost everybody else I would go see would cause me to not get any sleep that night because my ears would be ringing so bad. So maybe that's the litmus test if your ears are ringing at the end of the night you might have caused you and the audience pain.
I think if you have to reduce something by 6db on the master, something is wrong in the mix. The mastering stage is usually for subtle moves. The heavy work is done in the mix
Yeah, this will mess with levels of things in the mix really badly. It use to be "fix it in the mix" now, its one step beyond... I always liked know what you want and get it at the source... those days are slowly going away.. let AI butucher it for the next decade too.. ugh. Now I'm depressed. Lol
Ignore most of the prematurely judgmental armchair experts in the comments who've replied with opinions and not results or data... It definitely can be useful for mixing/mastering depending on the source material, if you start with small gradual amounts and scale it to taste, before reaching Dave Natale's live audio preference (and not just for EQ; emphasis/de-emphasis EQ, SCEQ compression, etc). Example: 160 Hz divided: -6 > -4.5 > -3 > -1.5 > -0.75 (or just -1 dB; more common) If you have a device that isn't capable of scaling the values gradually, make multiples (5 custom EQ curve presets) of each value scaled/divided down and choose the most suitable one. Even better, save those as presets for later use. It also helps to Low Shelf decrease or High Pass cut unnecessary low frequencies before the fundamental frequency and work with the 'curve' frequencies remaining after the Low Shelf/High Pass cut. Example: Hi-Hats or Cymbals, highly unlikely that you'll need frequencies below the fundamental frequency (*Edit for clarity: Gentle roll off at the fundamental or sub octave of the fundamental frequency. I tend to go with or a 6 or 12 dB/Oct slope). These are the values for the smallest amounts (Example: 160 Hz: -1.5 dB / -1 dB) 63 Hz & below = 0dB (or -0.17 dB / -0.11 dB; half of 80 Hz values) 80 Hz = -0.35 db / -0.23 dB 100 Hz = -0.72 dB / -0.48 dB 125 Hz = -1.05 dB / -0.70 db 160 Hz = -1.5 dB / -1 dB 200 Hz = -0.75 dB / -0.50 dB 250 Hz = -1.12 dB / -0.75 315 Hz = -0.75 dB / -0.50 dB 400 Hz = -0.97 dB / -0.65 dB 500 Hz = -1.2 dB / -0.80 db 630 Hz = -1.5 dB / 1 dB 800 Hz = -1.12 dB / -0.75 dB 1 kHz = -0.82 dB / -0.55 dB 1.25 kHz = -1dB / -0.66 dB 1.6 kHz = -1.07 dB / -0.71 dB 2 kHz = -1.50 dB / -1 dB 2.5 kHz = -1.12 dB / -0.75 dB 3.15 kHz = -0.90 dB / -0.60 4 kHz = -0.47 dB / -0.31 5 kHz & above = 0 dB (or 6-6.30 kHz set to a relative amount as 3-3.15 kHz, based on the octave
@@StevenMelin Thanks. I've been testing the curve in an Ableton rack of compressors in series, that i've been working on for a long time. After seeing your video, the idea to apply Dave's curve just seemed like perfect timing. It works surprisingly well and can sound very transparent and clean. Unfortunately, with a few caveats, it can only work with compressors that have a 96dB/Oct SCEQ filter like Fabfilter Pro-C2 for example (to really focus in on those specific frequencies and only those frequencies triggering the compressor). High CPU usage is another caveat. I have an M1, so it can handle it (44%). But since we're mixing, just process the audio and bounce. •20 compressors for each frequency (except the 0 dB frequencies can remain off) •Bandpass filters (96 dB/Oct LP and HP) •63 Hz to the 5 kHZ (I usually prefer 6 kHz, source-depending. Since it's the octave of 3 kHz and is within the 'pain frequency range', If I go higher, I will match or divide the amount of gain reduction from it's relative octave frequency) •Gain Reduction amounts represent the individual -dB amounts •I tend to keep all of the soft knees mapped together and usually at max, especially with 20 compressors going, which really keeps things transparent and clean (especially with oversampling on) •The fun part is when you start experimenting with Attack and Release times by dividing them from low frequencies to high frequencies or vice versa. Although, i'll tend to calculate and calibrate all of the release times together. If I have a Kick with a decay/release time of 125ms, comp release time will be 125ms or Auto Release. Auto Release can be more reliable, especially considering each frequency/compressor could be occurring at different time lengths within the waveform (Example: Transient Hit > Body/Resonance >Tail) Example: 63Hz compressor with an attack time set at 30ms divided by how many compressors you have (20) down to the 5 kHz amount or vice versa. 30 (ms) ÷ 20 (# of compressors) = 1.5 30 ms - 1.5 downwards until the last frequency/compressor. Then you sort of have a time-based Compressor-EQ hybrid Low Transient attack-based Slope 63 Hz >>>>> 5 kHz+ 30 ms >>>>> 1.5 ms High Transient attack-based Slope 63 Hz >>>>> 5 kHz+ 1.5 ms >>>>> 30 ms
I’ve mostly used this EQ on tracks that were already mixed, but then had to tweak so that it didn’t sound blown out (since this boosts by 6dB in the frequencies that aren’t lessened).
Hello! This technique seems very similar to mixing with a limiter at +6 and then removing it when exporting, since by having those +6 you end up mixing at a much more limited level, precisely in the mid-range since, as you say, The human ear is much more sensitive in this range, only in a different way, we would be reaching the same thing basically. I have also seen a video where, with a multiband compressor, the engineer in question compresses the midrange and expands the low and high range, obviously with parameters that work for him. I'll see how it works for me with this technique, greetings!
Hey PLEASE don't use it on studio mixes. It seems like you haven't quite understood the purpose of it. These are the frequencies most live sound engineers struggle with when EQing their speakers by ear. When doing studio mixes, you have to think of the translation between different sound systems. You should take care of the individual instruments and EQ them based on what you hear on your monitoring environment, or if you don't have a good monitoring environment, on multiple devices. You shouldn't EQ the master "so you don't have to EQ the individual tracks". That's only for live sound.
I hear you! Although, I’ve found that by applying this EQ to the master (and thus lowering the pain frequencies), it opens up space for me to then EQ individual instruments as needed. I’m not sure if this will continue to apply to all tracks, but so far it’s improved 10/10 tracks that I’ve tried it on!
I think this is just a "smiley curve" similar to what Gullfoss uses to boost its volume, it doesn't just apply gain to the lows and highs but carves the middles/pain frequencies to get its loudness. As with Ozone, I don't think it is a bad plugin, it gives you all the basic materials you need to make a good Master. If you use the mastering assistant you are just lazy to learn or inexperienced. Either way it comes down to how you use it and if you know when to use it.
[with a parametric EQ] _"There's no level of accuracy or repeatability"_ Perhaps this is unfair, but when I hear statements like that I tend to skip to another video, as you get put in the _"oh I get it, he doesn't know what he's talking about"_ category.
📈If anyone would like to recreate my curve:
63 Hz & below = 0 dB
80 Hz = -1.4 dB
100 Hz = -2.9 dB
125 Hz = -4.2 dB
160 Hz = -6 dB
200 Hz = -3 dB
250 Hz = -4.5 dB
315 Hz = -3 dB
400 Hz = -3.9 dB
500 Hz = -4.8 dB
630 Hz = -6 dB
800 Hz = -4.5 dB
1k Hz = -3.3 dB
1.25k Hz = -4dB
1.6k Hz = -4.3 dB
2k Hz = -6 dB
2.5k Hz = -4.5 dB
3.15k Hz = -3.6 dB
4k Hz = -1.9 dB
5k Hz & above = 0 dB
I just tried this and it worked way too well, I' questioning everything i have learnt about mixing
@mrgriffton9935 🤣🤣🤣 you and me both
Dude I tried it as well and am kind of freaking out. After adjusting for taste it absolutely works. Crazy crazy.
@@GreasyDaddy🔥🔥🔥 crazy how well it works in almost all contexts
Thanks the gems!
(You forget the "-". logically its 500 Hz = -4.8 dB not 4.8 db, right?)
This EQ Curve really does work. This is a total game changer. Thanks for sharing👍🏿
:facepalm:
@@Strepite I got the waves 30 band graphic eq. I followed the eq curve recommendations. It removed all of the pain frequencies in my mix.
Dave Natale is a legendary LIVE sound mixer. I think you’re missing the fundamental point of his video. He’s speaking very specifically about clarity in drums by cutting 160Hz and adjusting the 2-3kHz range for pain threshold when delivering program as loud as possible. Which is his signature sound.
To apply this universally outside of a FOH live sound application and for all genres of music and volume levels is doing yourself a disservice. Especially in a studio mixing environment where a full spectrum of information needs to be represented. I think Dave was quite clear about not doing this outside of his very specific gear, genre and volume scenario.
There is no silver bullet in EQing. It is an art form AND a science, and needs to be adjusted to every source, speaker system, room and audience.
always a pleasure to read someone who undertsand things in their complexity
Right, but there are universal truths.
Exactly the video is so pointless, if one, being a live mix engineer or studio mix engineer don't understand the facts that upper midrange causes harshness and bass & lower midrange causes mud, than he/she should go back to Lesson 1. And of course there is no "magic" curve, every space is different, every mix is different, every SONG is different, different keys, different timbres... I mean, come on...
@@JoelBrandonMedia I would say basic truth, no magic here...
Started watching this on a random impulse RUclips click while I was eating, and I was already more than halfway through the video when I finally looked down and recognized your name... I'm already using a ton of your music in an RPG Maker game that I'm developing, but I'd never come across your channel before until now, lol.
Cool! Nice to meet you 👋
I checked out the original video and found what I think, is an even more accurate frequency spectrum by analyzing the brief image of his physical mixer.
I spent a lot of time re-crafting the details of this, and am pretty sure it's about 95% accurate:
80 Hz & below = 0 dB
100 Hz = -2.0 dB
125 Hz = -4.0 dB
160 Hz = -6.0 dB
200 Hz = -4.0 dB
250 Hz = -3.0 dB
315 Hz = -2.5 dB
400 Hz = -2.5 dB
500 Hz = -2.0 dB
630 Hz = -2.5 dB
800 Hz = -3.0 dB
1k Hz = -3.0 dB
1.25k Hz = -3.0 dB
1.6k Hz = -3.0 dB
2k Hz = -2.5 dB
2.5k Hz = -3.5 dB
3.15k Hz = -2.0 dB
4k Hz = -1.0 dB
5k Hz & above = 0 dB
thanks for that
Q ?
@@vidicsferenc182 I think a graphic eq like this has a fixed q per band. Unsure what that is.
Thx for this vid. I missed the interview even though I am a Beato fan. I have to say this technique works really, really well. The Kick and Bass become so clear and present and all the mud, which I didn't know was there, disappeared. The A/B of this technique is a little disconcerting when you first try it but after about 2 minutes of listening and then A/Bing again, you will instantly come to hear how clear this technique makes everything. Excellent video. Thx.
I totally agree! 🔥
I mix FOH at the church with Steven and he sent me this. I tried it last Sunday and it was insane how much better the mix was! Can’t thank you enough brother! 🙏🏼
Only the best for the best! 🤘
I also did that mix in church and it sounded great
out of interest a month later are you still digging this eq?
@@markiethetiger2461 was is great just at first or are you still using it, really interested to see what people are learning over time about this curve? all the best
What kind of engineer are you not knowing this in the first place? This is as logical as it gets...
Keep in mind he stated this eq curve is specifically for mixing live sound REALLY loud. As the volume gets higher, your ears become more sensitive to the high-mids, as plotted in the Fletcher Munson/equal loudness curve. His eq curve mitigates this effect.
Still works wonders for studio mixing too!
@@StevenMelin I tried your eq settings and compared it to just adding a 9db low shelf at 50hz and a 9db high shelf around 5000 (and then matched the output levels). It sounds quite close.
When you MASTER you are making songs LOUDER and when u turn up the volume on ur music this EQ curve works perfect because LOUD mastered music and LOUD live music are both LOUD. So it works on mastering too. Ive been mastering for several years and I did it thru trial and error. Nothing on youtube would work and this eq curve is sonething close to what ive been doing and works well due to getting song loud and then eq n compressing it into the limiter.
@@AP530that makes sense
@@AP530 again, keep in mind this is in a live environment. This eq is only on the P.A. His mix is not getting treated this way. So the stream and the recording doesn’t have this eq setting. To compare your mastering to a live mixing environment is outside my mind. Your audience will never ever be standing in front a 30 stack PA system (that they’re in control of) blasting your masters, to justify making such eq changes to someone’s mix (even if they were PA owners, it would be better to put the setting on their PA so headphone and boombox consumers aren’t affected). This is just to protect the audience from super high listening volumes. And if your master was to be played on a system like his, with your eq and his eq, what would your song sound like? His example was only for monitor.
@2:10 "and this stuff...Hertz" well played. I'm sold. 😂
I used this idea on my home theater setup. It cleans up the mud and takes away some of the painful frequencies. I know a home theater is nothing like a JBL Vertec system or an EAW Anya/Otto system but the concept works well.
This is why Pultec was so popular, it bases on this EQ curve “Smiley Face” or “V/U” shape. To balance a mix in Body because human hearing does need a help to perceive low frequencies, and on highs where the “vowel” area is and a gentle lift in the area is soothing for our ears, as long as we don’t push it a lot.
At the end the goal is not to boost or cut individual frequencies but seeing it as a whole, if we see all the spectrum:
A lift on bass frequencies human ears appreciate a lik help with, and a soothing mid/high range (vowel/formant area) both of them higher compared to the “muddy” area (150-300Hz)
Yes, but you don't need a Pultec to make a smiley face. You can make approximately the same smiley shape with any 3- or 4-band EQ. Any old mixing desk would let you cut the midrange while boosting the bass and treble/air. It's just handy to be able to sweep the mid-band to a particular frequency (e.g. 160Hz) where you want the greatest attenuation. (The Pultec naturally made quite a sharp cut in an ideal place if you did attenuation at the same time as boosting the bass). I think those 30+ band EQs are only really useful in a live context where there might be some weird resonances. Thousands of smash-hit records were made on SSL desks with only a few EQ knobs set to produce simple "smiley face" effects.
This is exactly what I was thinking, it’s a smiley face curve. Same thing I would dial into my parametric in my stereo when I was a kid.
No rules, have at it. Put 10 audio engineers in a studio, and you'll get 11 different mixes. Because it goes to 11. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for your remarkable insights. I too saw the Natale - Beato video, but wrongly assumed it was a technique limited to live music / big venue / loud volume situations. You took the time and applied the intellectual curiosity to test it in a recorded music / studio venue / reasonable volume situation. You are quite right that this technique has a dramatic, positive, impact on mixing songs. I very much appreciate your work on this.
This is interesting.
Often these frequencies are cut off in one way or another when mixing, so it is worth trying to mix this curve in the right proportion.
Thanks for sharing this.
Just tried this on a big orchestral track and it blew my mind!!
Ah, this is brilliant! I've recreated your GEQ settings and it sounds brilliant! I also discovered how awesome GEQ is! If you set the range to 0 and then dial it up, you just stop when it sounds good! It keeps all proportions! Thank you and Dave and Rick!
I totally agree!
This curve (and variations of it) is a staple in live production sound. Has been for years.
Not really. Most of the time when you see a graphic eq like that it’s because they rung out the PA too much so there’s almost no chance of feedback.
@@ProDoucher At any professional level in sound, it should be assumed that the PA has been rung out pre-sound check. My above comment takes that for granted.
I saw this video of Beato and was blown away, never checked it out. Love to watch your video now and what you did out of it... LETs GO!
This is something you do subconsciously in Electronic Dance Music especially if you are mixing for headphone music or trying to get loud with out paining for big EDC or Ultra shows. Only problem is processing power and time someone has to make a perfect loud yet destroyed mixes
Love the info
I turned mine up 10db and it sounds even better... great eq advice! Thanks!
This is interesting. My immediate thought was, "But I don't want to have a the same curve applied if my conscious decisions about these areas may also be changing," so I set up a preset in Soothe 2 to add extra processing to resonances in these points and adjusted the Q of each node to cover a similar area to the curve. This makes a positive difference to every premaster I've put through it so far (more subtle than the EQ, of course, but maybe better in the long run?). [edit] 5k and above is NOT beyond human hearing, wdym?
As for doing the EQ curve instead, I made one working to -6dB with the mix at 100% so that it can be blended. I think the thing to do is start with the EQ's mix at 100, A/B the Bypass and listen for which parts it's negatively affecting, and then keep A/Bing as you bring the EQ's mix down until it's barely affecting those parts. You'll probably still be at about 50-75 of that curve, so you can definitely still hear it cutting into those problem areas quite a bit.
Cool experiment! I’m still playing around with this myself, so the point of this vid was to share the curve and see if anyone else is experiencing the same awesome results 😅
I've spent the last several years trying to get my music sound as polished as the professionals, and most of the learning curve I have found is EQing. I stopped using ozone a couple of years ago and found I get better results training my ears to EQ properly. I just downloaded soothe 2 and that combined with what I've learnt with EQing has made me achieve my goal. I always cut around 2k and from 200 500 hz, remove sub from anything that's not sub and anything else depends on the sound I'm using or track I'm mixing. Interesting video, corolates with what I've learnt.
Awesome! EQ truly is the foundation of mixing. I’ve been working on it a lot recently. So crucial. You’re right, night and day improvement. I believe hi-hat is a higher fundamental than 2k. Also I think you meant above like 15k is the range people can’t usually hear. Loved the cue too!!
Depending on the venue and how loud it is send out of the speakers. The freq don't hurt when it's not loud.
wow, must have missed that video. But I've been applying a notch at 4k a lot lately, it really helped my listening experience. It's interesting this curve cuts so much at 2k though and the sound still has intelligibility.
This is such an amazing technique! When I saw the Rick Beato, I just had to try it out for myself. Thank you for covering this!
You're essentially adding volume so you think it sounds better. You're adding 6db across the board but only dipping out certain frequencies by 6 dB or less so there will be a net gain. This is why you can put it on almost any mix and you think it sounds better. If you normalized for volume it would paint a different picture. (try it, you will come to find the benefit or lack of benefit would relate more to the overall frequency balance of the mix) Also, there is no such thing as good and bad frequencies. You're hornswoggling yourself with volume, This is a very classic mixing pitfall. One good rule of thumb is if it works on everything, you can bet you're adding volume. Sorry to have to call you out on this but you're pushing bad information that most people on here will not have the experience to know better. This is why so many people are universally responding to how crazy it is that this works on every mix. Everyones just adding volume to their mix hehe. Great channel overall though !
Indeed. That 6dB boost after only cutting some frequencies and mostly by less than 6dB just means the whole thing will sound louder, which usually sounds better. (it could also cause clipping). As I understand it, you only need 30 bands of EQ for mixing live music at very loud volumes on very large speakers. This is because our brains/ears react to sounds differently at different volumes. When music is played very loud, the mid-range sounds much harsher/fatiguing than it does at normal volume, so the live mix engineer needs to cut the mids more than a studio/mastering engineer does for recordings. Similarly, if you're at a festival, you want the speakers to pump out tons of bass. You don't want that on your home speakers or on the radio. In normal mixing, you want the midrange to be relatively loud, to make vocals and mid-range melodic instruments intelligible.
Jeff Ellis out here saving people worldwide from Ignorance :D
Bro these RUclips mixing tip video’s are destroying the producer community. These guys just post nonsense
@@Snapshot-d8o Mother nature is correcting for competition--let her cook.
Would this work with two track beats and vocals ?
Many people here are forgetting that after applying this eq you still need to EQ each individual channel to for each instrument or vocal, then you get the results he is talking about. The reason it works for steven in a Studio aetting is because his tracks are already mixed how he want them, he just added this EQ and turned it up.
Individual instruments still need some tweaking afterward in volume, but yeah - good point!
Thank you for giving us your curve here.
"5k and above beyond human hearing"...? You really said that!
Also, when you scoop out like that leaving low end, you lose headroom, not gain it. I agree with the clown below, that there is a lot of , I won"t call it bad, but certainly misinformed, and more so, misapplied.
I hear 20k if loud enough and Im 29 haha
@@DarkTrapStudioI can hear above 25k Hz...... but I'm a border collie.
Just tried this and wow! I used the Kirchhoff eq and tested this. 4 db seemed to work for the track I was working on but seeing how this can make that drastic of a change in clarity is astounding. Thanks for sharing!
Right there with you! Yeah, it doesn’t always need to be so extreme. For Dave Natale, he mentioned that he usually goes -15dB at the lowest for massive stadiums, which makes sense with all the low end build up with subs and thousands of bodies in a room / hundreds of feet from stage to ears. But in the studio, I’ve found 3 to 6 dB to be the sweet spot so far 🔥
Would you be kind enough to share the Kirchhoff preset please? Thanks.
@@pukkadelta4486 for sure!
This curve seems to keep the mix in a sonic place and then even after mix and effects etc ,,, seems to kind of automatically keep things within a happy range to the ear... on its face it also seems to help with masking issues in those ranges... been using it for a while on just about all my mixes.... and it doesn't matter if you mix in mono or stereo from my experience using a curve like this... I have dynamics built into mine but I can adjust to the uniqueness of the mix as I go.. Great to hear your vid....
I saw the original video from Rick beato and I was intrigued but I never got around to testing it. Thanks for the video because it did remind me to get around to actually testing this. Also thanks for the EQ settings in the comments. This is going to be fun!
It totally changed my mix..Thanks for this info
Fantastic video. Thanks for presenting this so clearly.
like a person who realy strugle to improov in mastering
i will difntly try it
thanks for sharing
My buddy Billy Decker always just tells me, "Find the pain, reduce the gain". It sounds so simple...because it is, but it works. Get rid of the annoying stuff, and let everything else shine through.
Game changer! Thanks for this 😊
im not a fan of this as a blanket eq for actual song mixes it's clearer but loses the weight i could see that being useful in a live setting. 160 300 700 and 2k are all good places to check anyway
Yeah, but I do think that this is a great starting place!
This method will work if you gain stage properly... Furthermore you do have to consider your high pass and low pass filters ... And lastly it is per stem... So you will ultimately need to mix to taste for each independent stem and then understand that you cannot introduce the same amount on the mix bus or the master bus because it will further compress and distort the sound. So you need to decide if you're going to use it on the mix bus only or each individual stem
@juhneing yep, great points!
Great info thanks!
Is this for headphones or mixing on monitors? Or maybe even both?
It works like magic!
I have been meaning to try this since I seen the original video, thanks for sharing!
Give it a shot!
ok, I tested this out! Its pretty darn interesting. I'm going to test this out for a while longer, until I know its a good way to mix or a waste of time.
Either way its fun to try out new things.
This is well known in studio mixing also. They call it a scooped mix. And yes it can definitely make things sound more pristine and clear. But unfortunately you’re also removing the most important part of a mix which is the midrange. My recommendation is to definitely study this and learn how it works, but in the end, you wanna know how to dial in that mid range. Learn how to mix the mid range correctly and you’ll have much better mixes.
Midrange maybe the heart and soul of music, and the easiest to hear, but this is also the reason it can be so ear grating, so this totally makes sense, with the gain staging
If I can add to this, IMO this curve is honestly a super nice touch to a mastering chain. BUT, it doesn’t negate a proper mixdown. There’s always moving parts and if two instruments are clashing somewhere, fixing in the master chain with this is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound: it may hide the problem but it didn’t fix it.
Other thing I feel worth mentioning is that when I set these up in my Pro-Q, I really dialed in the Q and dB/oct, and you HAVE to use the gain scale to dial it in.
@NerismaStudios Great points! I totally agree.
I'm a big fan of "scooped" masters or what used to be called the "disco smile" that emphasised kick, bass, and hi-hats (at the expense of vocals and mid-range instruments) as it made things sound groovier in the clubs and on the radio. I'm unlikely to make a severe cut at 160Hz though. Many of my favourite records from the '80s have 'ear-splitting' snares at around that frequency. It might be painful to hear them in a live setting without a good engineer utilizing his 30-band EQ to reduce their prominence at loud volume, but a lot of great records (by Madonna, Prince, Michael Jackson etc) would sound weird/terrible with their snares turned down by 6dB.
@@AutPen38 mercy me lord it's crazy what people like these days...
basically the smiley face curve
yeah it’s literally just a more convoluted smiley face eq 😭
The sea and sky is basically blue
uwu curve
Right
I've approximated the curve in the Ableton EQ using 8 bands, then put on every individual track and using the Scale % to adjust to taste so I can remove harshness without gutting the mix entirely. Works great! Thanks.
you could also have multiple eq 8's to cover all eq moves.
@@rossco78 That's a bad idea.
casn i get that eq preset...because when i try it i cannot get that curve with the m
If you really want to try using a graphic EQ, there is a free one by Voxengo (makers of SPAN) called Marvel GEQ that has 16 bands, which is more than enough for mixing normal music. The 30-band models only really make sense for live settings where the speakers are playing VERY LOUD, which causes some frequencies to sound louder than they do when played at normal volume.
That's amazing. Thank you
This is crazy, never heard of this kind of curve,.. will check it out as well 🙂😃
You & me both! It’s absolutely wild. Try it out! 🔥
☺
Your music has gotten so good! EQ is by far the most powerful mastering tool you have. 😎 (my credentials: Apple Digital Masters certified). You will find a HIGH LEVEL ABOVE THAT if you will focus on getting rid of RESONANCES your music.
Very kind of you!
A variation of this has been my go to curve for front of house for a while now. Got there mostly through trial and error.
It's easy to find the mud and pain frequency's but it's easy to miss what should be there to maintain the energy of the music.
I try to keep as much as the low mids in there as possible otherwise things can sound a bit dead.
That's of course assuming you've got a tight fresh sounding system to work with.
I'll give it a try. BRAVO!
Been doing this in Metal and hardcore production for awhile because of the amount of low end and chaos that needs to be controlled. But its done on the individual instruments not the whole mix buss
On the 1:17 sample it sounded way better with the EQ applied, but on the sample starting at 1:30 the EQ buried the "power" of the segment, but it did change it a lot, so "It's night and day" is true!
I guess it shows that there is no blanket statement, but only preference. But cool video nonetheless, I was entertained a lot!
I made a fab filter Pro-Q preset version of this and MAN, this shit WORKS! Everything sounds so much cleaner.
🤘🤘🤘
How did you do it in Fabfilter Pro-Q?
i have tried, and just plotted the values in, but it didnt sound the same as a 32 band EQ.
This is strange. Just tried it on a project and it sounds pretty good to me. Thanks for sharing!
It’s like audio wizardry! 🧙♂️
Eye opening, thanks for sharing
I came across the same video too , haven’t tried it but will do so today
Interesting. I should give it a shot sooner or later.
Dave was speaking about LOUD live performances in a large venue...think stadium. Not the cans on your head.
thanks , I saw the video but got intimidated by fabfilter thanks for showing the eq curve !!!
Yeah! This definitely simplifies it (and sounds better as a result)!
This is interesting because Ozone kept pulling 150-160hz out of my mixes, not much like -4db. Then you can solo that band and go directly to the instrument and pull it out for less possible phase issues. It was doing this to make the maximizer more optimal and to allow it to be spanked more. I would still keep Ozone, they were already doing this with there mastering assistant AI tech. There has to be a bit more science to this, involving the fletcher munson curve maybe. Wonder if Soothe can be set up to mimic most of these bands.
For all those people wondering about the Q settings: "For its 30 main bands, the GEQ Classic component uses “Proportional Q” filters. The Q value is proportional to the gain adjustment; increasing a band’s gain narrows the filter width."
So it's hard to recreate those settings without a similar working plugin
For someone who has mixed for 24 years, this is seriously helpful.
Glad to hear it! 🤘
@@StevenMelin hoping this works.
I remember back in the day when starting in 2000 I use to boost the EQ, and used it as volume. I kind of stopped that, so this takes me back. Seems what you start with you should continue using.
Keep in mind that this EQ curve is for removing unwanted pain frequencies, not boosting anything. But because this will remove volume, you can boost it back with the output equal to the amount you removed (-6dB removal = 6dB output gain more or less).
@@StevenMelin yeah I find that helpful so I hope to try it. When I mix my personal music I have a certain way I do it. It might cripple and squeeze out the life of my mixes but trying is really all I can do.
Yank you for sharing this. It's quite interesting, I will try it out.
Quite interesting, my first thought was oh "its just a smile eq", but hearing why the individual frequencies are treated that way, makes me wanna try it, will use it like you with a graphic eq that lets me set the range for the whole eq
Umm... but not all audio sources have that exact freq energy.
Sometimes that EQ curve will work, but a lot of times it won't.
wtf, this is incredible,
Dave was talking about the drum EQ. Why would you ever remove so many frequencies from your full mix? And what does it have to do with Ozone? It's a great mastering tool if you know how to set it manually.
Stop being rational and logical.
@@morbidmanmusic 🤣🤣🤣
I watched the video as well but thought it was just for live mixing, definitely will try this but I think it shouldn’t be applied on the masterbus. Getting rid off these annoying frequencies on individual tracks would be a better approach imo. But that’s just a guess I have to try it out myself first lol 😊
Give it a shot on master bus (with some added EQ on individual tracks as needed too) and let us know your findings!
That cool if you trust someone quoted as saying: "5k and above is kinda beyond human hearing".
Glad someone else caught that classic!
What are you using to monitor? Those headphones presumably? It would help to know if you've monitored on different devices or in different settings for the purpose of the demo and assertions being made.
So you're dipping the mid range frequencies (and cutting some specific frequencies), which, if those headphones are more emphasised in the mid range, effectively means the bass is being increased and the above 5k sparkly or airy frequencies may now stand out. Therefore the sum of your original mix (or simply the sound of the instrument preset), and the action of your monitoring device, and possibly your room, is being adjusted to allow less typically heard frequencies (with middy headphones) to be heard a bit more and give a fuller sound.
Making such big adjustments to a mix may get results in one very specific set of circumstances, but presumably wouldn't translate to others, potentially giving very unpleasant results in other circumstances. The likelyhood is that the good results from this template curve has highlighted a bias in one or many of your variables.
The original source material, despite providing some radical inspiration, was specifically referring to mixing the audio coming from drums in a live music setting, to reduce discomfort when the music is being played very loud. I've applied close to that curve to the eq on the amp for my front room hi fi system, and obtained great results! Great to try things, great to acknowledge their original use-case.
Great points & questions! In my situation, I’ve enjoyed applying this curve to numerous instrumental (soundtrack genre) tracks to great effect, auditioned on monitor / headphones / car / phone. Naturally this curve won’t improve bass-heavy genres like EDM / hip-hop, but in my world focusing mostly on punchy orchestral music, this does wonders. And as many have commented, it’s best to dial it in to the context. I have it as a preset at -6dB range & 6dB boost, but that’s just a starting point.
You can just listen to the mix and take away frequencies that are annoying. There’s no reason to cut it in this specific way for every song.
Also 5k is nowhere near the limit of human hearing, that’s 20k
HELL YEAH FINALLY 100% SCIENTIFIC PROOF THAT ALL DRIVERS, HORNS, CABINETS, AMPS, CONSOLES AND ROOMS SOUND EXACTLY THE SAME!
I've been waiting for this comment! LMAO. And, who uses a graphic in 2024 to tune a PA??? LMAO
@@kenbeaupre9973 you won't believe it, this year i once did live sound with an analog system, and i used a graphic like the one with the faders for every frequency to tune the speakers 🤣🤣🤣
this works amazing
i have been doing this for years in live , only recently doing post production . I strongly agree on that fFletcher-Munson Curve is highly flawed
Great video bro !! less hashness with eq !
These frequencies are also the ones you need to perfectly translate your mix into small speakers (tv speakers, phone speakers, earbuds...).
It's true that at first glance , listening to it in studio monitors or headphones it sounds "cleaner", you still have lows and highs, but if you get your music into a game or a film/TV show, the mixer will eq out your lows and highs to leave space for SFXs, so with your "EQ preset" your music will sound thin and poorly defined buried behind the dialogue and SFXs.
It's true that the mid range can be ear piercing, but I don't think the solution is to just "attenuate" it in your sum. The midrange is the most important range to transtale your mix into any speaker and situation, it needs is to be controled, that means mixing carefully analysing which instruments are "clashing" and >building up< these freqencies, prioritise the ones which need in and trim these in the other ones that don't need it. If one specific instrument has infrequent nasty resonances when playing certain notes, dynamic or technique, you can use dynamic EQs to tame and control those moments.
If you think 6dBs is "not too much", think that -6dBsFS is half as loud as 0dBFS, so every time you boost 6dBsFS you're making things double as loud, and everytime you attenuate 6dbFS you're making think half as loud.
In the same way there's no recipes for composing, there's no recipes for mixing and mastering. EQing in mixing/mastering is about control, not about killing frequencies just becase "uh, those are BAD frequencies". There's not a thing such "bad frequencies".
P.S.: I don't write this comment with the intention of offend or attack you, I think you're a great composer but this mixing advise is just bad advise.
Great thoughts to consider, thanks for sharing!
Thats just resulting in the EQ smile curve.what used to be in car stereo and defined as "Loud" button usually.
Btw I checked (with matching the loudness of course and not just adding 6db). I said, why not, it's probably nonsense but I'll check. It definitely ruined my mixes, each and every one of them😂 I am a mixing and mastering engineer so I guess if you get good sound already - dont do that because it'll ruin it.
Interesting....I will try that out.....but with a mix knob.... Add the % of this eq to my mix ....just to see how much it needs that curve.
Hey steve ive just found your channel and im happy to find another cubase user so ive subbed. Hope it helps
Do you have this on The master or just the strings? I'm confused...
Also whats a similar EQ plugin I can buy/download with this many bands?
Fl studio does not have an EQ like that.
Yes it does,
Equo and parametric EQ
This makes perfect sense . . . Parametric is parametric . . . Live is music too 😂 . . . 160hz is indeed ugly . . . So is all that mid range 😂 . . . Thank you for bringing this out . . . On top of evrything . . . Your samples are already conpressed and eqed so this makes perfect sense . . .
Thanks for the video! I watched the interview and it was really interesting. I think he is doing kind of room calibration with this like Sonarworks for the arenas. Pretty genius especially if others are not doing this. But in principle it shouldnt be applicaple to mixing records, why not just calibrate your speakers? However I tried it and it made things sound more defined. But probably should pay more attention to those frequencies in the mix and not just on the mix bus/master?
I think this is far more than just room calibration! Yeah, we should always be careful not to use a “blanket” trick for all uses, but I think this is an incredible starting point that can be tweaked per track.
@@StevenMelin yeah, this could be a great starting point for mix. What makes me think its a kind of room calibration is that he said that he uses James Newton Howard & friends cd to do this. But yes, there might be something more to it but I think its definately kind of room calibration also. But the aim is probably just not flat but something that actually sounds roughly good and then he continues with individual mics and instruments. But I will definately also play more with this so thanks for bringing this up! 👍
So I tried a version of this last night and loved the result, I think the smart way to do this is similar to how Dave does it, his adjustment of this curve is dependant on the room/venue he's in so I think these "rules" can be applied in a mix dependant context.
So I used a graphic eq last night, cut everything in between 80hz-5k to -6db, then based on his I "hate" 160hz, 630hz, 2-4k pain concepts started adding these frequencies back into the mix one slider at a time but making sure that the core freqs he mentions are relatively lower than the rest. Essentially using a similar curve to his but custom for my mix, I think the overall concept is still very useful for studio mixing if applied in this way instead of just being a preset.
I mean there's no reason to cut -6 or -12db of 160hz out if it's not in your mix but looking at specific "problem" frequencies and testing reducing them judiciously makes sense
Fantastic application of the EQ! 👏
@@StevenMelin Thanks man and thanks for the inspiration to check out the concept! If I had only seen Rick's video I would have thought to myself that this technique could only apply to live sound :)
That seems to be a common response! But sound is sound…regardless of in studio or live stadium! What changes is the amount to dial in.
Wow for 44 years I thought I was the only one that did this😂 actually mine was slightly different I started a slight scoop a 2.5 to 6 k then slight slope up starting a 10k to 20k to give it a delicate high end without pain. Unfortunately most systems don't have what I call really high quality ultra high end, that has a long range throw. But I will say i could mix a very high Db show and my ears would never ring at the end of the night. Almost everybody else I would go see would cause me to not get any sleep that night because my ears would be ringing so bad. So maybe that's the litmus test if your ears are ringing at the end of the night you might have caused you and the audience pain.
I think if you have to reduce something by 6db on the master, something is wrong in the mix. The mastering stage is usually for subtle moves. The heavy work is done in the mix
Yeah, this will mess with levels of things in the mix really badly. It use to be "fix it in the mix" now, its one step beyond... I always liked know what you want and get it at the source... those days are slowly going away.. let AI butucher it for the next decade too.. ugh. Now I'm depressed. Lol
Amazing video, i’ll try this preset
Nice. I'll try this on some trailer stuff. :)
Just tried it🚀🚀🚀 on my master well dang
This actually feels like cheating, it sounds so good haha. Thanks for sharing Steven!
I know, right!?
Ignore most of the prematurely judgmental armchair experts in the comments who've replied with opinions and not results or data...
It definitely can be useful for mixing/mastering depending on the source material, if you start with small gradual amounts and scale it to taste, before reaching Dave Natale's live audio preference (and not just for EQ; emphasis/de-emphasis EQ, SCEQ compression, etc).
Example: 160 Hz divided: -6 > -4.5 > -3 > -1.5 > -0.75 (or just -1 dB; more common)
If you have a device that isn't capable of scaling the values gradually, make multiples (5 custom EQ curve presets) of each value scaled/divided down and choose the most suitable one. Even better, save those as presets for later use.
It also helps to Low Shelf decrease or High Pass cut unnecessary low frequencies before the fundamental frequency and work with the 'curve' frequencies remaining after the Low Shelf/High Pass cut.
Example: Hi-Hats or Cymbals, highly unlikely that you'll need frequencies below the fundamental frequency (*Edit for clarity: Gentle roll off at the fundamental or sub octave of the fundamental frequency. I tend to go with or a 6 or 12 dB/Oct slope).
These are the values for the smallest amounts (Example: 160 Hz: -1.5 dB / -1 dB)
63 Hz & below = 0dB (or -0.17 dB / -0.11 dB; half of 80 Hz values)
80 Hz = -0.35 db / -0.23 dB
100 Hz = -0.72 dB / -0.48 dB
125 Hz = -1.05 dB / -0.70 db
160 Hz = -1.5 dB / -1 dB
200 Hz = -0.75 dB / -0.50 dB
250 Hz = -1.12 dB / -0.75
315 Hz = -0.75 dB / -0.50 dB
400 Hz = -0.97 dB / -0.65 dB
500 Hz = -1.2 dB / -0.80 db
630 Hz = -1.5 dB / 1 dB
800 Hz = -1.12 dB / -0.75 dB
1 kHz = -0.82 dB / -0.55 dB
1.25 kHz = -1dB / -0.66 dB
1.6 kHz = -1.07 dB / -0.71 dB
2 kHz = -1.50 dB / -1 dB
2.5 kHz = -1.12 dB / -0.75 dB
3.15 kHz = -0.90 dB / -0.60
4 kHz = -0.47 dB / -0.31
5 kHz & above = 0 dB (or 6-6.30 kHz set to a relative amount as 3-3.15 kHz, based on the octave
Well said! 🤘
@@StevenMelin Thanks. I've been testing the curve in an Ableton rack of compressors in series, that i've been working on for a long time. After seeing your video, the idea to apply Dave's curve just seemed like perfect timing. It works surprisingly well and can sound very transparent and clean. Unfortunately, with a few caveats, it can only work with compressors that have a 96dB/Oct SCEQ filter like Fabfilter Pro-C2 for example (to really focus in on those specific frequencies and only those frequencies triggering the compressor). High CPU usage is another caveat. I have an M1, so it can handle it (44%). But since we're mixing, just process the audio and bounce.
•20 compressors for each frequency (except the 0 dB frequencies can remain off)
•Bandpass filters (96 dB/Oct LP and HP)
•63 Hz to the 5 kHZ
(I usually prefer 6 kHz, source-depending. Since it's the octave of 3 kHz and is within the 'pain frequency range', If I go higher, I will match or divide the amount of gain reduction from it's relative octave frequency)
•Gain Reduction amounts represent the individual -dB amounts
•I tend to keep all of the soft knees mapped together and usually at max, especially with 20 compressors going, which really keeps things transparent and clean (especially with oversampling on)
•The fun part is when you start experimenting with Attack and Release times by dividing them from low frequencies to high frequencies or vice versa. Although, i'll tend to calculate and calibrate all of the release times together. If I have a Kick with a decay/release time of 125ms, comp release time will be 125ms or Auto Release. Auto Release can be more reliable, especially considering each frequency/compressor could be occurring at different time lengths within the waveform (Example: Transient Hit > Body/Resonance >Tail)
Example: 63Hz compressor with an attack time set at 30ms divided by how many compressors you have (20) down to the 5 kHz amount or vice versa.
30 (ms) ÷ 20 (# of compressors) = 1.5
30 ms - 1.5 downwards until the last frequency/compressor.
Then you sort of have a time-based Compressor-EQ hybrid
Low Transient attack-based Slope
63 Hz >>>>> 5 kHz+
30 ms >>>>> 1.5 ms
High Transient attack-based Slope
63 Hz >>>>> 5 kHz+
1.5 ms >>>>> 30 ms
You sound pretty armchair to me, and I'm guessing lots of others. Can you prove we are and you're not? Just the facts mAm.
@@morbidmanmusic I'm not interested in talking to you. Have a great day!
Are you mixing with the eq on , or you turn on the eq when you done with the mixiing ??
And thank you for the info..
I’ve mostly used this EQ on tracks that were already mixed, but then had to tweak so that it didn’t sound blown out (since this boosts by 6dB in the frequencies that aren’t lessened).
Thank you my friend..its definitifly woth of trying out...greets from germany
Hello! This technique seems very similar to mixing with a limiter at +6 and then removing it when exporting, since by having those +6 you end up mixing at a much more limited level, precisely in the mid-range since, as you say, The human ear is much more sensitive in this range, only in a different way, we would be reaching the same thing basically. I have also seen a video where, with a multiband compressor, the engineer in question compresses the midrange and expands the low and high range, obviously with parameters that work for him. I'll see how it works for me with this technique, greetings!
Man I thought the ozone layer depleted again
☁️ ☁️ ☁️
Hey PLEASE don't use it on studio mixes. It seems like you haven't quite understood the purpose of it. These are the frequencies most live sound engineers struggle with when EQing their speakers by ear. When doing studio mixes, you have to think of the translation between different sound systems. You should take care of the individual instruments and EQ them based on what you hear on your monitoring environment, or if you don't have a good monitoring environment, on multiple devices. You shouldn't EQ the master "so you don't have to EQ the individual tracks". That's only for live sound.
I hear you! Although, I’ve found that by applying this EQ to the master (and thus lowering the pain frequencies), it opens up space for me to then EQ individual instruments as needed. I’m not sure if this will continue to apply to all tracks, but so far it’s improved 10/10 tracks that I’ve tried it on!
Yes. This is so dangerous for beginners.
More dangerous than slapping Ozone on the master and calling it mixed & mastered? 🤨
No such thing as ”live technique” in this context, if it works it works. Its simply Eqin the mixbuss, very common technique for mixing.
I think this is just a "smiley curve" similar to what Gullfoss uses to boost its volume, it doesn't just apply gain to the lows and highs but carves the middles/pain frequencies to get its loudness. As with Ozone, I don't think it is a bad plugin, it gives you all the basic materials you need to make a good Master. If you use the mastering assistant you are just lazy to learn or inexperienced. Either way it comes down to how you use it and if you know when to use it.
The annoying frequencies are 200, 400-500, 4k in fact. If your mix has too much in 2k than you can do it, but this is very situational.
So attenuate all frequencies, got it
Just try don't be hesitate🎉🎉🎉
[with a parametric EQ] _"There's no level of accuracy or repeatability"_
Perhaps this is unfair, but when I hear statements like that I tend to skip to another video, as you get put in the _"oh I get it, he doesn't know what he's talking about"_ category.