I love how JJ tackled this because he didn’t try to tear down Micheal he propped both of them up complementing Jordan saying how he did so much and elevated the bar so high yet LeBron was able to at least reach it, I hate the debates now a days because all they do is tear down the other
Bobby Knight said MJ was the best at 20 years old when he competed as an Olympian and torched NBA all stars. Their careers have many similarities. Lebron looks like he could play into his early 40’s.
bro was yappin and yappin but didnt get to a point. was just saying that lebron is better than everyone except for jordan but didnt explain why. (although i agree with him, jordan is the goat lebron number 2 but its really close)@@nathanmulchandani2869
This is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying for years, I just didn’t know how to put it into words. You CANNOT measure Lebron based on Jordan’s blueprint, if you’ve already decided that blueprint is the right way. It’s like measuring greatness based on a bird, but judging a dog for it. Both were great in different ways but if you’ve already DECIDED Jordan is the best, you will NEVER open your eyes and see that all this time you’ve been comparing Lebron to Jordan BASED on Jordan. Does that make sense? You’ve already decided everything Lebron does that isn’t like Jordan is wrong, not just in terms of play style but career paths, so you never allowed Lebron to be great in his own way in the first place, because you’ve already set it in your mind the only way to be great is Jordan’s way.
What an incredibly dumb way to rationalize a stupid statement like Lebron being as great as Jordan. "Durr if you have decided Jordan is better than Lebron, you will NEVER open your eyes and see" How in your mind is that a rational argument, or line of thought? Maybe you should stop comparing Jordan to Lebron BASED on Lebron. Like. Some Dollar store philosophical stuff bud. Should consider writing fortune cookies.
@@ad7287 Ok. Lemme go ahead and start comparing Jordan to Lebron based off of Lebron. Lebron won 4 Mvps. Jordan won 5. Lebron won 4 finals Mvps. Jordan won 6. Lebron led the league in scoring. Jordan led the league in scoring whilst also winning DPOY. Do I really need to continue? You've already decided Lebron is as good as Jordan, so you will never open your eyes and see durrr. Lol. Ya'll really something else.
@@PixelateThat You seem to always be obsessed with someone being on the knees. Why you love to talk about being on the knees so much? God knows what is going through your mind but, hey, I'm not going to judge.
I never understand the physicality argument. Wouldn't that play in Lebron's favor? He is 6:8 260 and one of the most athletic players ever. Wouldn't it be helpful if he could use those physical tools even more aggressively? Wouldn't that have helped him push steph and KD around more in the finals?
@@imneveruploadinghere7180 And he started out weighing about 205. Boston,2000's Pistons,Spurs and Indiana forced him to invest in his body and then he had a center playing guard and three Hall of Famers in the bay. Keep in mind his reliable co‐star Kevin Love was nearly always injured. I am no LeBron sympathizer but he deserves credit.
I think something not really discussed either is the age of information and social media that exists during the LeBron era. During MJ, everyone just sat and watched and talked amongst their friends. Yeah, there was media people but that's about it. These days it's constant scrutiny by anyone and everyone and it's out there for everyone to see. Trade information and inner-working of the team leaking to the public before players even know about it, constant mind games by everyone. During the 80s bullyball era, you had the toughness and the mind games but once the game was over, it was over. Now, it follows players on their socials and media 24/7. There's a certain mental fatigue that occurs now amongst players, that no one cares to admit because you're then labeled 'soft' but it certainly hits everyone.
I said the exact same thing. In Michael's day, you could get away with being disrespectful or rude, or saying something stupid in private. Nowadays, if Lebron likes the wrong tweet, or tweets/retweets something misinformed, he's crucified. MJ himself has even said he couldn't have handled the social media era.
Jordan was viral before going viral was a thing I remember the scrutiny he got its why jordan only played 13 seasons he just suffered in silence and let his game speak for him and his popularity made his life on lockdown
Because this generation is sensitive and gets triggered by everything…l don’t think it’s an obstacle to overcome if anything it’s an advantage a player has access to more media and write their on narrative, which a lot players are doing if you are the real deal
We also have to take into account how the evolution of our technology compared to MJ days, everything from the Buses, Private Jets, Trainers, Equipment and Advancement in the Medical Industry. Players in Lebron era had the best of the best from High School til now they’ve been spoiled and pampered; Even with all of that they play less games by load management then back in MJ era despite having the best money can buy. Lebron has been outstanding throughout all the Social Media of these times and can came through with clean hands no scandals at all.
Lebron had a tougher time in the finals, MJ had a tougher time on the way to the finals….Lebron for the second half of his career played in a notably more offensively skilled league while MJ had to play in an era where the rules made perimeter scoring much harder….MJ didn’t have the benefit of today’s technology, training, and resources whereas Bron has to deal with today’s media cycle and distractions….etc etc, both had a very tough road to greatness but imma give MJ the slight edge
You made very good points but I’m not sure I agree with perimeter because illegal defense isn’t talked about enough. It was so much easier to score 1 on 1 in the playoffs because of illegal defense rules Back then than now.
People totally rely on physicality and COMPLETELY forget that Jordan played in an era of THE GREATEST interior players of all time. That era of bigs has the most Hall of Famers of ALL TIME, and to be a perimeter player and STILL dominate as Jordan did with the aerial assault he had was unparalleled.
If you watched the NBA 75 event. Even in Cleveland with LeBron. The crowd let everyone know without a word who the goat was when MJ walked in. When you think basketball, you think Michael Jordan.
@@godamgg4478 obviously i know that but you have to factor skill in, impact on the game, accolades, and stats. If we simply wanna talk about skill Kevin Durant is probably the best player of all time. But it’s more than that.
Or maybe a lot of people still hate their hometown hero left for LA and the other guy is the most popular player ever and the event was in the Midwest where Jordan played more time in than lebron lol. Just because people are from Cleveland doesn't make them automatically lebron fans especially considering how controversial he is to the public.
Or maybe a lot of people still hate their hometown hero left for LA and the other guy is the most popular player ever and the event was in the Midwest where Jordan played more time in than lebron lol. Just because people are from Cleveland doesn't make them automatically lebron fans especially considering how controversial he is to the public.
Kobe deserves more respect for what he did, in literally the toughest time to play basketball. Like the guy averaged 35 smack dab in the middle of the 2000s against some of the most defensive teams ever.
If you take a look at the playoffs and finals for MJ, you will see Craig Ehlo, Danny Ainge, Dan Majerle, 175 lb Kevin Johnson, Horacek. Lots of slow and bad guards back then with no zone defense. Take a look at Ehlo guarding MJ 1v1 for basically an entire series. Even Dumars are the size of Steph curry, but MJ lost to him most of the time. Peyton did not even guard MJ until it was too late in the Sonic’s series
And if you look LeBron he run, formed a superteam, yelled that he will win 6 only to lose to Dallas. He played with... Wade, Bosh, Allen, Irving, Love, Davis, Westbrook and his fans have a cheek to say he had it tougher. The man.. you listen carefully... run and literally choosed his teams and teammates. And he had it tougher.? Btw. Rodman was traded for Will Perdue. Not sure you will get this one as you seem pretty dumb.
@@blackdynamite5016 ofc he’s right...that’s y’all opinion 💀if you have the same opinion about something obviously you’d agree but he said nothing worth value...all I saw was a groupie who feels like his favorite player is god 🤣🤣
I think people underrate the fact that Lebron had to play half of his finals vs the GSW warriors, and almost beat the 2015 warriors without Kevin love or Kyrie who were both injured
Kobe has the most wins in NBA history against 50-win teams with a record of 25-10. That’s 5 more wins than Jordan and LeBron isn’t close to either. In fact, Kobe has more wins from 2008-2010 than Magic Johnson had in his entire career. The disrespect that Kobe gets from the media - specifically ESPN is absolutely insane. Oscar Robertson is no doubt one of the greatest basketball players in NBA history, but Kobe is by far more accomplished individually and it isn’t even close. He also has a winning record against Tim Duncan and the last time he faced them they were defending champs as he smacked them out of the building.
@@CriusXI na but he should be 6th no lower than that. And you can make a case he can be fifth. They’ve been doing this to Kobe before he died. The disrespect. I remember they rated him like out the top 10 one season and they told him and he just laughed. Half these people do it base on feelings. And some jut didn’t like Kobe due to things outside the nba.
The problem with these debates or making an actual list of the greats is that the factors players dealt with legitimately changed every decade. Whether it be the actual rules of the game, the adjustments to equipment (ball, 3pt range, jerseys, sneakers, etc), pace of play or how subjective level of competition during a given era may be, we should all be able to agree that its impossible to accurately rank players across decades without injecting a ton of bias. A better arguement to make would be to rank players agaisnt their peers during individual decades. An example of this making sense is that if you only looked at the 90's Jordan would top the list, but if you looked at his time in the 80's he wouldn't be able to compare to Bird or Magic, the opposite is true since both of those guys were old, broken and on the way out of the league during Jordan peak. Another example would be how much more physical the game was than the decade that came after, while we can never know how a player who came later would do during that time, we definitely know how players in that decade handled things. So, honestly it makes way more sense if we just put player rankings in their proper context and dropped a term like goat for one gote....greatest of their era
Absolutely!!!! This right here would end alot of this nonsense. To many different factors. Yes I would say the game today has evolved to a way more talented league from the knowledge that previous eras have provided and access to adequate training todays kids have, but that doesn't take away from the boundaries previous gens had to break in order to get here.
@CordialConflict - correct, which is why you look at how well you dominated your peers. Team and Individual accolades will represent this and not accumulative stats as accumulative stats do not reflect changes in eras. So let's look at accolades for Team and Individual. MJ - 6 rings, 6 FMVP, 5MVP, DPOY, x10 scoring champ, x3 steals leader, x9 defensive 1st. LBJ - 4 rings, 4 FMVP, 4MVP, x1 scoring, x1 assist, x5 defensive 1st KAJ - x6 titles, x2 Finals MVP, 6 NBA MVP, x2 scoring champ, x1 rebounding champ, x4 Blocks leader, x5 All NBA defensive 1st team (19 Seasons) Just this alone would show that KAJ and LBJ are far closer, with KAJ edging it out as he dominated his peers a little more than LBJ, whereas MJ is out of reach for both. bball is very simple, if you think youre the best offensive player PROVE IT ie lead the league in scoring or assist, if you think you're the best defensive player PROVE IT ie lead the league in steals/blocks - MJ is the only player in history to prove he can play both ends CONSISTENTLY while winning chips
Maybe an interesting point here- you know that bar that MJ set that makes it so difficult for other players to live up to? Well while that bar was steadily developing MJ had to live up to it as well. Funny thing, if LeBron didn't do well or live up to some bar etc there could be a certain percentage of reasoning that says "well it's ok he's no MJ" or even what was said in this video where it's a great accomplishment just to reach or get close to that bar set by MJ... but during MJ's rise it got so insane, so viral, really the whole world was watching; it was uncanny. It all culminated with this understanding that MJ was the best and anything less than him being the best was a shock and massive defeat. Every team was gunning for MJ, every team had significant amounts of game plans to neutralize him. LeBron faced a similar situation, no doubt, but SAS is right, MJ faced a bit worse. Just those Knicks games alone... players get scalped driving to the hoop, and obviously the Pistons, but folks may not remember Celtics were nasty too, the Celtics would lump players up, and so would Utah, so we're the Lakers, so we're the 76'ers, just to name a few. Teams were loaded with grit but so many teams had great players too, stars, many had great duos. Plus 3pt game wasn't like it is today, which meant a lot of coaches weren't interested in players hanging around the perimeter, everyone had to get dirty, everyone had to bang. I give the edge to MJ in what they had to deal with.
I think there is something to the weight of media expectations that Lebron has had to carry and carry responsibly his entire life. As good as Jordan was coming out of UNC he didn’t have NEAR the expectations that Lebron did coming out of HIGH SCHOOL! That being said, people did expect him to be a Jordan clone and he isn’t. All these media types spent their beginnings of their careers covering and watching Jordan now they worship at his alter. Everything that Lebron did differently from Jordan was considered wrong instead of him having the full license to just be different. They are both iconic and great. You cannot really compare eras. The entire league was remade in Jordan’s image of athleticism. The next generation will be remade in the image of Steph Curry and skill based play and shooting.
Lebron has put some of those unfair expectations on himself. Tattoos that say the chosen one. That's bringing things in yourself. Also comments when he got smoked in the playoffs and says I could have dropped 50 if I wanted. Well if you could have done it, why didn't you. Michael talked on the court but didn't act like that off the court. He didn't go around saying he was the best. He knew he was. I also think when he played was harder than Lebron's era. The league is so soft now. Lebron is an amazing player but behind Jordan in my opinion. I can see the argument for Lebron though.
@@bryanwood8334 Exactly and saying how great he was before he even touched an NBA floor. That's one of the reasons I've never liked the guy. Then he goes on to say "We're not gonna win 1, not 2, not 3, but 6 championships." Lol
Kid was 18 with the weight of a franchise and city on his shoulder he still gets critiqued for everything he does and has been since he came in the league
@@bryanwood8334 y’all keep trying to come up with every reason to why the media was hard on this man even without the tattoo the pressure was there and high af. He showed he could drop 50 if he shoot the ball a lot but that’s not his style I’m not even a Bron fan and y’all find the weirdest stuff to hate on him about. You mad because he’s confident whew please don’t watch any other athlete
I remember being in the 10th grade; Lebron was playing an AAU game in my state and the basketball players in my high school were comparing him back then. We were all teenagers including Lebron!
I’m a bit older than you but looking at LeBron’s body type back then, with him being so young and relatively big in stature I thought he’d gain (unhealthy) weight or have bad knees or ankles. I had absolutely no clue that he’d become the dominant superstar he’s become, which spans decades. Keep in mind that when LeBron entered the league, players were viewed as thugs with entourages, fathers of many children out of wedlock with different women, and weed smoking reckless money spenders. As the face of the league, LeBron marrying Savannah and raising their family, working with his friends/business partners, placing emphasis on physical fitness and mentoring younger players and children, he’s changed the perception of the league and given younger players inspiration as the league views the players more like partners as opposed to employees like in the past.
LBJS game is soft but nobody gonna talk about how he flops for calls 😡 at the end of the day you can’t be call a goat 🐐 when you’re in the final’s and your record is 4-6 .. last but not least. I doubt wanna hear 💩 about who the f-k he married to, what that got to do with it. The Stans is creepy 🤦🏽
They're very different players from different eras. LeBron is like a Magic Johnson with Charles Barkley's athleticism. A guy who loves to facilitate and create opportunities for his teammates since that's where he strives the best, great passing along with his incredible athleticism which is one of the best in the league. MJ was more of a scorer, a Larry Bird type of player. An assassin who wanted to kill you on the court every time. Think of Larry Bird's killer mentality and shooting ability combined with LeBron's athleticism and speed and you got MJ. A lot of y'all say the league is soft nowadays which is true when you compare it to the 80's-90's. MJ would definitely average at least 40 ppg with today's soft defence. However, it would be very interesting to see LeBron play in that era! How physically dominant he would allowed to be because of hand checking rules and physicality, he'd be like a Rick Mahorn with 2x the athleticism. Magic and Bird made the sport famous in North America, but MJ took it to a whole another level. He made the sport global, he IS basketball in a way. My uncles from Poland used to wake up in the middle of the night just to get a glimpse of his matches in the 80's/90's against the lakers, suns, jazz etc. It's very difficult to surpass that for LeBron since MJ is like a threshold that's unlikely to be surpassed by any player. NBA was already a global sport when LeBron entered it at 18, with Shaq, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade etc. MJ to Basketball is what Michael Jackson is to pop music.
Agree with most but MJs defense on the ball or anywhere was better than LeBron. LeBron was a better help side defender and his chase down blks were good too. Mike had his share of those too. But over all the defensive edge goes to MJ. Mike could take away your best player and score 30. - and clutch/killer instinct I edge to Mike too
@@fasteddie0306 You're right buddy, MJ was just as good defensively, which is very rare in basketball. Some say he was even better defensively. I've never watched him play live since I'm way too young for that but he was a terrific perimeter defender, his last play for the bulls proves that. The way he steals the ball away from Karl Malone and hits the game winning shot is some of the most legendary moments in sports! Kevin Durant is kind of like that, I still remember his game winning 3s against the cavaliers and it gives me goosebumbs till this day!
LeBron is the better all around player mj better shooter but we will probably never see another LeBron James with that build and physique plus can do everything on the court Kobe was the last time we saw another player play like Jordan LeBron has his own style you can't really imitate gifted in a different way interesting if the two played against each other
@@okay2584 just defenders, in the East there was Starks (multiple times), Rodman & Dumars. Rodman wasn't his primary match-up but he did guard him some. Ehlo was a decent defender but he DEFINITELY wasnt in that class as All 3 are All Defensive team guys & he never got there. As for teams, there's the Pistons (Rodman, Thomas, Dumars), 76ers (Barkley), Knicks (Ewing), Cavs (Price & Daugherty), Knicks again, Heat (Rice & Smith), Knicks again, Cavs again, Hawks (Dominique). That's just 91-93. Of those 9 series, only 3 times did MJ not have to go through another HOF player just to get to the Finals.
I actually think the modern rules work against LBJ. The amount of times he gets called for a charge for just blasting the defender away when he dips his shoulder. He would just steamroll everyone in the 90s
U know they still called charges in the 90s lol. The modern rules definitely don’t work against Lebron at all. You could literally steer a defender to where you wanted them to go in the handcheck era. A whole different level of physicality.
Issue with Kobe is that he was far more inefficient of a shooter than any of those players above them. Top 5 for shooting 45% for your career is woeful. It also took him 4 years in the league to become a significant player which is another disadvantage compared to the other players above him. However, in terms of being clutch and winning titles, definitely top 5.
Lebron took parts of MJ and integrated it into his own game, Kobe literally tried to be an MJ clone. U don’t get a ton of credit for trying to be a carbon copy of someone else hence why he’s typically out the top 5.
They both had it tough. The problem for lebron was the media overhyping him before he even stepped on an NBA court calling him the chosen one. He did live up to expectations (depending on who you are) but that's a lot of pressure to put on an 18 year old. For Jordan it was the pressure of proving that a scoring leader can lead a team to a championship. As for the media wanting lebron to play more like Jordan (and the haters) saying he needs to take the game winners like Jordan or Kobe, they use to say that Jordan needed to play like magic or bird and trust his teammates more.
Jordan and bird were nothing like Micheal Jordan and not on his level of athletic ability or basketball skill set. LeBron was not overhyped by people who saw him play, as I did and saw he was the truth.
2 of those final against the spurs miami had better talent. I dif Put 80s celtics better than the 2007-2014 spurs 2 of the meets with the warriors, cavs had the same amount of talent. So really its just the 2018 warriors when lebron had an harder obstacle as he only had kevin love
@@Coldskin1but mj didnt play against prime 80s celtics to win a title.. whats yout point?? mj somehow came after magic kareem and birds celtics. finished right before shaqs lakers. best comp was the knicks for mj??? pippen took them to 7games without mj so mj had easiest comp.
@@andreterrell8412 - And being the face of basketball, and all of the companies he endorsed, not to exclude needing to bring a championship to Chicago, then the pressures of scoring a repeat, then a 3peat, then his return, scoring another repeat, then a 3peat, and being asked by Phill Jackson to be the leader when Michael was battling his own vices like alcohol, infidelity, etc., is a lot of pressure, that really no other playing in the NBA was asked to take on and show results.
@@andreterrell8412 - Jordan did not ask for the rule change, Stern realized he needed to protect Michael from Michael and the other players. It was pretty clear that Michael enjoyed driving to the rim, and it was pretty clear defensive players were willing to deliver hard fouls in return. Something has to give when you have a Billion Dollar Baby in the palm of your hands. Lastly, the rule did not just favor Jordan, the rule began to crackdown on malicious fouls on many other players. Fewer and fewer visuals of NBA past was taking place, and that was players with busted noses, lips, black eyes, and facial contusions, that was not rare in the ABA and even the NBA of the 70's, to include spanning into the early to mid-80's.
The west was absolutely stacked during Kobe's tenure. Mavs, Suns, and Spurs. Then you had the nuggets, jazz with prime D Williams and Boozer, Rockets with T Mac and Yao, and the Timberwolves made a run at one time. Spurs and Lakers made it hard for a lot of legends to make deep runs into the playoffs
You've never heard MJ say he's the GOAT. He let's others call him that. But I also think the term GOAT is like a puzzle. Everybody is a piece of that GOAT puzzle. It's a potluck and everyone brings something different to the table.
Since MJ's hot debate against Wilt and Bill Walton was the one who told the story, MJ would alway say how he respects the players that came before him. There's a photo of MJ and Wilt and you can tell MJ is listening.
Conversely the defense of the 00's was the best and hardest on superstars. Even MJ admitted that his career would have been different if he would have had to deal with the defense of the new era
- Stephen A: Jordan had a tougher road - JJ: actually, here’s why Lebron may have had a tougher road - Stephen A: let me respond to that and elevate my game by not responding and going off-topic
lebron jumpshipped forming super teams and still kept loosing. The Bulls dynasty was built on Jordan, Pippen was not an all star when he came to the league, not even a starter in his rookie season.Jackson, Grant, Armstrong, Triangle Offense are all part of Bulls development. Jordan went through the grind, took the punishment and humiliation that is why he is respected more than lebron. Just look at the 2022 Lakers, lebron even failed to make it to the first round with a space jam team. He is not in the same level as Jordan. FYI Jordan revolutionized the game of basketball and took the game to the next level that is why the NBA became global and popular
@@alfray1072 dumb take .. so would you have him tank to get players from the draft .. or play well enough to have players come play with you . . Every player wants to play with great players foh
@@fairfieldgulley2401 who told you so? Players back then wanted to beat each other not team up with them especially Jordan, Magic and Bird and now Giannis. Lebron's weakest part is he could not attract players during his prime in Cleveland that is why he had to jumpship to Miami.
I mean... Teams were making the playoffs in the east with 37-45 records. Doesn't mean the east didn't have 2 or 3 good teams but overall compared to the west at the time it was weaker.
@@Robertedwinhouse38 his road to the finals is weak but his finals opponents is harder but lets not act like mj did face some plumbers in the 90s lol and the competition is more harder back then cuz of the fouls and you said it yourself "recruiting talent" it became a trend its because of lebron lol
@@dxtremecaliber oh my bad mark Eaton was a mechanic not a plumber. My bad. And by recruiting talent I meant the nba recruiting talent from the world. Lebron plays the best in the world Jordan didn’t.
@@Robertedwinhouse38 that comment couldn't be more incorrect. You think the best players in the world all play in the NBA? LoL There are players who we will never know who have Hall of Fame NBA talent. And Mark Eaton was the defensive player of the year like 2-3 times. He wasn't a scrub.
The fact there is a debate between the two is already an achievement in its on. I grew up watching both MJ and LBJ and to me, they're the GOATS to be in different eras. The game is completely different today and both have their pros & cons. I will not argue between those who chooses sides and both can be correct. I simply can say that I got to watch both play at their highest level and in between them, I got to enjoy Kobe. MJ and LBJ are two completely different type of players on and off the court. Kobe would be the more carbon print of MJ, but he had SHAQ and Gasol. . . something MJ never had. You can then start breaking down the competition in those eras as well. You'll never get everyone to side as it's always going to be a date.
Its not an achievement...its called “paid advertisement” by Nike. Nike owns Lebron and theyve paid media outlets to perpetuate this conversation. Its horsesh*t...nobody w a real gauge believes it even a little.
Imma just agree on lebron and mj both being goats depending on way your stand. Lebron had to live up to jordan as a young kid on the cover of sports illustrated. Raised fatherless,carrying the weight of expectations and media scrutiny placed at such a young age. He not only achieved but far exceeded expectations. Improving year in year out. 3pts shooting, jumpers, fadeaway midrange shooting. Constantly working on improving his offensive arsenal despite being able to score in the paint by simpling driving to the lane. Facing the greatest regular season team in nba history and coming back from 3-1 down. Dragging those early Cavs team to the eastern conference finals against teams laden wit all stars. Obviously Jordan 6fmvp /6 wins 10 scoring champs /defensive player of the team / multiple all defensive team/ 30.1pts per game average for a career cannot be discarded and overlooked but so can't lebron statistics probably will retire wit 40k/12k/12k( that too cantbe overlooked)
Someone with sense. And it's impossible that Kobe is #10 when he took Pau Gasol and the Lakers to 3 straight championships and beat the modern superteam Celtics who have 3 top 75 players. Pau Gasol , Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest....did NOT make the top 75 list.
As a Bulls fan I'm 100% biased, but Jordan stayed here in Chicago and eventually beat his nemesis the Pistons by simply waiting on his teammates to improve around him. Lebron overcame his nemesis the Celtics by going to another team and joining Dwyane Wade. Wade was one of the top 3 stars in the league at the time and had already won a championship without LeBron. Lebron got his first two rings in Miami beating OKC and San Antonio who were two teams that were largely created organically from the draft so LeBron had an easier road. As people say LeBron had a tough road because of Golden State but LeBron created Golden State. Durant only went to Golden State because LeBron opened the gates when he first went to Miami. Durant and OKC may have actually won the NBA Finals in 2012 had LeBron not gone to the Heat and formed the Big 3. If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were on 3 separates teams in 2012, those 3 teams might not have been able to defeat the Thunder. OKC were the best organic team in 2012, without the Big 3 in Miami Durant may have won in 2012 and might not have joined Golden State later on. So LeBron actually created his struggles, Jordan did not. Also, why does ESPN have Kobe ranked at 10? When Kobe was active in his prime, he was closer to the top 5 then closer to 10.
I agree with you about Kobe being ranked too low. Players like Bill Russel and Wilt shouldn't be ahead of him. There were 8 teams in the NBA when Russel was drafted and Russel was the tallest player at 6-9. Imagine Kobe playing back then. He would average 60 points, 20 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks, and 10 steals a game.
In terms of pure basketball perspective, I think the opponents MJ faced were harder. But in terms of just overall who had the more challenging career, it is hands down Lebron James. Coming into the league, he had more hype than ANYONE else ever and he was 17 and a half years old, straight out of highschool. Grew up in poverty under a single mom with no father presence to speak of. Plus he is the first transcendent player to play in a social media era, where every single minute of his life gets reported and talked about. Eveyrthing about his life exposed and amplified. I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of stress and pressure that would create for ordinary people like us, let alone to a 18 year old kid. And to live up to that hype and pressure the way he did, with no mental, personal life issues to speak of. The role model that he is and the things he has done for his community...while being arguably the second greatest player to ever play....I cannot imagine a single person, other than Lebron himself, to pull off what he did in his life. What he has done in his life is absolutely amazing. Is he a bit soft and sensitive at times? yeah he is. No doubt. Does he flop a bit too much at times? Absolutely. But love him or hate him, I am 99.99% sure that all of you that comment here to berate Lebron, every single one of you would not be able to handle the pressure and responsibilities that Lebron had to handle. Not even close. Period. What MJ had to face outside the court, does not even belong in the same ball park as what Lebron had to endure.
I respect your opinion but I disagree in saying that in terms of basketball, that micheal had it harder. Let’s be clear micheal era was more physical and had greats like bird, magic, Kareem, Malone, and etc. but when you look at lebrons competition and the skill set of each one, it’s utterly insane to think about .
@@jamesii30 In terms of the finals match up, I do believe MJ's opponents weren't as great as the opponents Bron faced, hence 6-0. And I do agree that overall the skill level of players today are higher than in the 90's. But I factored in the fact that the league was not friendly towards perimeter players as it was big-man dominant and that is why I thought, personally it was more difficult for MJ to dominate that era. But I do see where you are coming from as I agree with most of what youve said.
How was his career more challenging when he could hit the reset button every few years, taking his talents to South Beach, back to Cleveland, to LA, etc.? He played with far more all-stars and all NBA players than Jordan.
The thing about the "physicality" argument is that... LeBron is one of the strongest players we've ever seen. If LeBron was allowed to be much more physical, he would be even greater
Lebron is not that strong, kobe was definitely stronger than him. He looks strong because the NBA let him make offensive foul evertime he drive to the basket.
Wilt Chamberlain said it best "Nobody roots for Goliath" But if the 32 Gms could pick any player from all NBA history to start a team today, Wilt would get 16 picks and Kareem would get the other 16 picks.
Stephen A's argument starts with him saying that he remembers the 80's Celtics, Sixers and Lakers teams like Jordan had beaten any of them....he only faced the Celtics and had no chance , once the 90s rolled around as he mentions, the great teams from the 80s were all gone....end of the Celtics era, end of the Sixers era, end of Showtime and Kareem retired so basically the 90s as wild open....yes, the Bulls had the best team and the best player and ohhh the best coach in that decade...what a surprise they dominated....the Bulls won 55 games without Jordan, that's how weak their competition was...facts, Jordan was the greatest player until 2018 Lebron, and yes, Lebron's road to greatness was much harder simply because of the expectation and hype and hate....the fact that this is even a debate is just shameful...the media still tries to do everything to push their agenda for Jordan and his status
Everything you say is absolutely correct. I try to tell Jordan fans (which I am, too) all of the points you mentioned, and they brush it under the rug and try to rewrite history. I'm not downing him for his struggles, but we shouldn't down LeBron for his challenges either.
You guys can still debate who's the GOAT, but it's funny to me how you guys are debating this in Lebron's 19 years of playing compared to Jordan's 13 half years lmao. That to me tells me who's the GOAT, if it takes you 19 years of playing and still not agreed you're the GOAT in comparison to someone that only played 13 years,,, come on, not even a comparison.
@@thecliffold5879 drop the 2015 cavs in the 90s..does jordan win 6 rings without adding a charles barkely or a hakeem?? You know the answer lol..the 90s were watered down due to expansion..weakest era since the 60s
Notice how everyone talks lebron finals competition and not his conference competition. There's a reason why lebron struggles to have an impact in the western conference. Jordan bulls had to deal with the superteam celtics and pistons, kobe lakers had to play the superteam spurs just to get out of the western conference.
MJ won every finals he was in… & lost a lot of playoff series. 1st round outed. Something LeBron hasn’t done. MJ didn’t win until everyone was too old or retired.
To be honest the Celtics and Pistons being there saved Jordan’s finals legacy because if he got to the finals against the Lakers early in they woulda obviously smacked the Bulls in the 80s. The way things worked out was a blessing in disguise because no one cares he lost in the early rounds.
@@rorisangpitswane3595 that's not true he definitely belongs in the debate and I suggest you go watch some videos by dom2k or Jonny Arnett. Kobe is really underrated.
There was no big expectations for MJ starting out and even during his reign in the NBA. It's tougher for LBJ because aside from very high expectations set upon him, he had to be compared to MJ and Kobe every step of the way. MJ set the bar for standards, LBJ was able to reach it in his own ways & not by following MJ or Kobe's steps. And along the way, he did other things which for me made him a better man/ person.
You sound stupid. Lebron wants to be MJ so bad and it’s so obvious. Copying his eyes closed while shooting a free throw even tho he can’t make them with his eyes open, not to mention he felt the need to do a space jame 2 movie.
Jordan is way ahead of his time despite the physical barrier. While in Lebron's, everyone has caught on skills, he had to play it smarter or out-hustle his opponent.
@S A Physicality is different for each era, the 90's era had hand checking, a big mans game, and definitley more shoving and hitting.. I understand there's more player movement now but that doesn't prove your point. The mentality back then was different. If your finger was broken it was taped up and you get back on the court. Now you get 4 to 5 weeks off. Before the Splash brothers the game wasn't that much different either. In my opnion, the reason Lebron has to work harder on offence is because he made it complicated for himself. For eg. MJ, Kareem, Harden, and etc.. made offence easy because they had go to moves that they can use at any point of the game to control the tempo. Lebron's go to is to barrel down the lane which is not always available. If he had an unstoppable move, he wouldn't have to pass and rely on plays and on his team mates. Joel Embiid is becoming one of these players. When Harden cannot go for his step back or floater, it becomes a 2 to 3 man game. Lebron didn't simplify his offence like this. He is better now because his shooting has improved but before 2016, you can only rely on him in the paint. Of course no one want's to discuss defence.
I agree.. LeBron's path was not as tough as MJ. Lebron kept taking the easy route, building teams and stacking the deck in his favor. And the crazy thing is, with all that deck stacking, he may have been to the finals 10xs, but he's also loss more finals than he won. MJ was not going to the finals to entertain a game 7, let alone lose. Lebron can't claim that. He's had more firepower than MJ and he still loss. Lebron dominated a conference, Jordan dominated The ENTIRE league.
You know I think Rich Paul and Stephen A are arguing two different sides of the same coin. Stephen A is talking about strictly on the court obstacles MJ faced regarding rules and physicality and that’s why he says MJ has the harder road. And let’s also add to the argument that even though social media wasn’t a thing, Jordan still had almost as limited privacy as a person could have in that time period. But Jordan was a more mature man during his playing years. He also had almost a luxury of being overlooked throughout his life by his coaches until he really began to flourish. Plus a relationship to his parents that really helped guide him through a lot of decisions he made like with his Nike deal, he didn’t have the spotlight put on him until he was ready for it. Lebron had the spotlight and expectations heaped on him as a child, not having the luxury of having stable upbringing. Plus never going to college and getting that chance to grow, he did all his growing in the public eye living in MJs shadow where the media just wants you to be Jordan but the two of you are just nothing alike. Plus it’s not like Lebron was facing a bunch of slouches on the court either. Overall both faced horrible obstacles, can’t forget MJs fathers murder of all things but it’s a different argument on two sides.
I’ve always thought that Bron is Simply more versatile that Jordan however Jordan was easily more skilled in my opinion at one point however LeBron’s Ability to add on to his game and mold and grow himself into whatever he needs to be successful is Great and Resourceful LeBron and Mj are both incredible athletes but I’ll kinda go with LeBron had the harder path on this one
Of course LeiBwong had the harder path- he's an inferior player. He's had prime Top10 All-Stars sacrificing for him, though. He jumps from team to team to gain the advantage. And he's lost sooo much. It's so hard for LeiBwong. No 3peat, no dynasty, didn't dominate the NBA- just the weak East. MJ had to duke it out with Magic and Larry....just look where they are on the All-time list. LeiBwong didn't have to face a Magic or Larry.
The Lebron is versatile thing is a myth. Advanced metrics show he guards wings over 95 percent of the time, he has always hated not playing small forward and complains every time he has to, and he insists on playing at the slowest pace with an incredibly stagnant your turn my turn offense. Don’t believe the myth created by his athletic gifts, how he uses them is the reality.
The Bron would have flourished in that “physicality”. He is build for that. Who would not flourished would be Duncan, Parker, Durant, Curry, Dirk, etc. If that’s the case, how many would Bron have won?
I think when shutting down Steph in his prime with KD with the best record in NBA history all while coming back from a 3-1 Finals Conference which was also never accomplished solidified Lebron as the G.O.A.T. I think no one could have done that besides him 🤷♂️
LeBron might have the more difficult Finals series, but Jordan faced more 50 and 60 win teams in the Playoffs. We celebrate LeBron's consecutive Finals trips but tend to forget that since 2010, he has had the most firepower against arguably the weakest East in history. His greatest competition on his road to the Finals are who? An injured DRose and PG? Jordan beat the likes of the Bad Boys, Ewing's Knicks, Reggie's Pacers, Mourning's Heat, Price's Cavs and Shaq's Magic. All these team's are legit contenders that could have won a ring if Jordan was out of the picture. The Knicks alone would have been the dynasty of the 90s if not for Jordan. LeBron can never make that claim.
I hope y’all quit saying the pacers because the pacers were heavy underdogs in those series. So please stop using them because it’s a flat out lie. The expansion era!!
LeBron said a few things during the all star weekend and all I've heard is scrutiny on every debate show since. That's even after becoming a 4 time champion. 4 time MVP. Most All NBA appearances. Once Jordan broke through everyone worshipped the ground he walked on. It was the two MJs. Jordan and Jackson. LeBron still gets just as much hate as he does love, which is ridiculous at this point.
Lebron not overrated it’s just his fan boys throw loose talk instead of facts when debating or they do like what Shannon and Nick do disrespect Jordan like he played all bums and Lebron played all Gods but he didn’t lol I like both brothers so who cares lol ain’t no great everybody The 1
There is a reason why MJ got the loudest applause and cheers, and got to stand in the center of all the greats! Because "MJ IS THE GOAT!" MJ put the NBA on another level world wide! How is that not the toughest obstacle???
And what is the reason why those same fans booed Steph... Then we're cheering him by the end of the AS Game.. you can't define GOAT by cheers from a schizophrenic crowd
The east was historically weak during lebrons peak. Throw the 2017 cavs into the east today, they would still be a top 2 seed and probably get to the finals, but there's no way they'd just sweep everyone the way they did back then. Big raps fan, but those derozan era teams would maybe be the 4th seed today
@@thehumannugakareemsupreme9484 Lebron only beat 1 team over.500 in the 2007 NBA playoffs and got swept in the Finals And that was the Pistons with no Ben Wallace
They cut it off at the end while Stephen was making a another good point nobody talks about much. Lebron was playing in the East, the easiest conference by a long shot most of his career. That’s why I get upset when people try to act like Lebron is undoubtedly the best. And they did Kobe wrong throwing him at #10. Kobe’s always gon be in the Top 5. Stayed his whole career on one team and didn’t make super teams and won 5 chips.
That's bulll..from 2000-10. The Lakers went times...San Antonio 2 and Dallas 1. Who really had the easier conference? Kobe or Lebron. For East Detroit 2,Boston 2,New Jersey 2,Philadelphia1,Cleveland 1,Orlando 1 and Indiana 1...
That LeBron playing in the east for majority of his career narrative is stupid. Dude goes to the West and wins a chip after years of scrutiny. In addition the East is as strong as it's ever been in a long time, granted it took LeBron leaving to get to where that Conference currently is. Coincidence?
People still love to bring up the eastern conference being weaker when bron went on that run. At the time yes it was weaker than the east but that’s not hit fault. Those teams could have gotten better but they didn’t and there were still solid teams in there too. People forget Lebron went to the west and won a championship in year two. Love both of them but at this point they’re both so great it’s all preference.
LeBron went to the West and won a championship because he was able to pick some great all-NBA talent. I wish other great basketball players had been able to do that back in the day.
No matter which angle you want to compare them, it's the 6/6 (100%) NBA Championships of Jordan withstood above versus 4/10 (40%) of Lebron. Accuracy and reliability in winning is always and will always be the key measurement of the GOAT debate.
What about 11-1 (the 1 lose with a player being injured.. Russell) and 10-0 in game 7? Bill Russell. He's your #1 if you go this route. If accuracy and reliability in winning is your route Jordan nor Lebron would fit because they both lost more than Russell
Nobody talks about who had the biggest impact on the sport. Who brought more attention and excitement and interest to the sport. It was definitely Jordan by far! Jack Nicholas is still considered by many as the golf GOAT because he had more championships than Tiger. But Tiger is definitely the greatest ever because he brought millions to the sport. He changed everything! Longer and harder courses, more room for fans, more money for everyone, Nike golf created, training for golf, etc.. He made the sport exciting for everyone. Back in Jordan's prime (and even not in his prime) everyone was watching whem Michael was playing. I had family and friends that knew nothing about basketball but watched every televised Jordan game and wanted to play basketball after watching him. To me, the Goat of any sport is the one who brought the most excitement and attention to their sport
You see how much bigger Bron is over Jordan? Bron is faster, stronger and can play all 5 positions. You mean to tell me Bron wouldn't be able to play 80/90s but Jordan dominates today without a 3 point shot? Jordan does well. Bron dominates all eras.
MJ had to battle the east first even before he reached the Finals , he had to battle the Pistons , Celtics , Knicks , Cavs , Shaq and Magic , Heat Mourning and Tim you could also that the 76ers of young Charles Barkley
Ofcourse MJ except for Pippen he didnt have very good players around him. And he robbed every single big player of trophies. Lets just say if MJ wasnt there other players from other teams would be much bigger legends. He stopped them all on his own! Lebron cant command Lakers but I can tell you for a fact if MJ would be in this team every player would be on another level like the Bulls
To me, it's MJ on any given day. The physicality of the game affects so much to players and their longevity in the league. Players back then in general didn't last long compared to the players nowadays. I see that's main reason LeBron can play at this high level at his age of 37. Of course, he's obviously a freak of nature and an unbelivable athlete we can only see one in a decade or longer. But still, he won't be at this level if he played in the 80's.
Kareem played like 20 years idiot, mj could’ve played 18 years I’d he didn’t retire 3 times. Karl Malone, Stockton, Malone, and gp both played a lot of years. You realize the 80s was like the highways scoring era?
Mj didn’t have to face a team with 4 hof all in their prime….Your comment is misleading,because out of 12 hall of famers ,4or 5 of them are washed passed their prime(carmelo,westbook,dwight howard,rondo,shaq….)the way you said it make it seems like lebron played with them all in their prime😂😂😂,it’s only bush,wade,kyrie,and Ad who really helped lebron
How many Hall Of Famers did each faced on a Finals series? MJ is the Goat, but let's face it. The teams he faced in the finals would not hold a candle to modern teams.
People forget that at some point MJ quit basketball because of media scrutiny, he bailed just like that! LBJ on the other hand with all the attention has managed to go through his all whole career with absolute professionalism but hey, according to Stephen A that doesn't count.
michael jordan stepped away from the NBA & tried playing baseball to honor his father who was murdered in 1993. how the FVCK did your comment get so many upvotes?
Both guys had it hard. But I'm gonna go with LeBron based on when he came into the league and who he went against. Also the league only having 23 teams in '84 compared the 30 teams in '03 make it easier to get to the playoffs, even with a losing record.
Jordan was out hurt in his second year and they still made the playoffs with a trash record because it wasn’t as many teams. I still think Jordan is the GOAT but it’s ok to state that fact. The Cavs had a winning record Lebrons second year and they ain’t make the playoffs because of a tie with the Nets.
@@datsapaddlin yeah. But that only bolsters my point that it was harder. MJ also made the playoffs a second time, with a losing record. And the fact that he was hurt and they still made it shows that it wasn't as hard.
Well didn't Jordan have to go against Prime Bird and Isaiah just to get out of the East! Plus showtime Lakers with Prime Magic if you came out the East at that time....
But he ask JJ to come on the show. You guys really think he doesn’t have a say in who’s on first take? We know he loves KP and KP is also a lebron is the goat guy
Jordan has more losses in the PLAYOFFS than LeBron does in the FINALS, but old heads still think Jordan is better simply because he has two more rings and they grew up watching him instead of the king.... 💯👑🙏🏽
Y'all lebron fans sure is dumb 🤣..so winning the 1st round is more important than winning championships? Sorry kid but your dumb opinion can't change the fact that mj is the undisputed goat over lebron 🤣
@@airecker lol that's it? That's your argument? How old are you kid? 🤣..you obviously don't know anything about basketball, go back to watching Disney child 🤣
TBH, it feels like people keep saying Lebron is number 2 all time feels like they say it to appease the Lebron fanboys. In reality, Lebron is top 10 all time.
When they bring up physicality why don’t they ever mention that it goes both ways? The bulls benefited from that too because they got to be physical against inferior talent & mike would definitely get more calls..
When MJ retired the first time the bulls till won like 55 games and almost made it to the ECF. When Lebron leaves his teams they turn into bottom of the league lottery teams. Lebron is the reason many of those teams even stood a chance.
@@fcbeninho0949 I’ll do you one better those raptor, hawk, pacer teams they like to say was weak east teams put lbj on those teams and they will call it a superteam.
Thank you SAS for keeping it real. There is Michael Jordan then everyone else. It’s that simple. It got clear very clear in the 75 introduction. Didn’t you hear the ovation for MJ? And he was introduce at last, which means the BEST…
Lol they did the forwards first, centers next and the guards at last. Thats why he came last for the guards, which means he was the best guard to ever play. Bron came last for forwards cause he is the best forward to every play. Simple as that
I've said this before, I'll say it again. The road for LeBron is WAY harder than it was for MJ for 15/19 years he's played, but it only is because he made it that way. LeBron joining Wade and Bosh in Miami opened Pandora's box and he's had to deal with stars that can't win championships on their teams going out of their way to team up to win that way. Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, Mark Price, Charles Barkley and Stockton and Malone were competitors, they wanted to show they were the best and win it on their own...which made life easier for MJ because they couldn't. If those guys started teaming up on him he would not have 6 rings boy lemme tell ya.
True, but he "made it that way" because Cleveland was the 2nd or 3 worst organization in all of the NBA, and he wasted his first 8 seasons there. I believe there is a recent documentary that has even more events that i could have imagined. They have improved in recent years thanks to the new GM, but Horrible is too nice of a word for the Cavs front office for the majority of its existence. If LBJ was drafted by LA, Boston Chicago, or even San Antonio, he could have had several rings by the time of the decision.
Just an hour ago, I thought about LeBron's entire career. I really have no problem that The Athletic and ESPN ranks him as the 2nd GOAT. That's how I pictured it nearly 20 years ago! The #2 GOAT. It came true.
I disagree with JJ and Trick Paul.. LeBron's path was not as tough as MJ. Lebron kept taking the easy route, or easy path so to speak. Building teams and stacking the deck in his favor. And the crazy thing is, with all that deck stacking, he may have been to the finals 10xs, but he's also loss more finals than he won. MJ was not going to the finals to entertain a game 7, let alone lose. Lebron can't claim that. He's had more firepower than MJ and he still loss. Lebron dominated a conference, Jordan dominated The ENTIRE league. AND top it off. Do you even realize if you lined their careers side by side, LeBron had head start, coming straight from high school. While Jordan accomplished more in a shorter period of time, than LJ. It's easy for people to talk about inflated numbers, when one guy is still playing. The other guy retired 3xs and still is considered the goat.
Lebrons path was tougher than MJ you fanboys think mj was the best at everything. First of, lebron was hyped up since he was a teen liie around 16 he was being called the "GOAT" and the chosen one and there was a interview he had where the interviewer said that if lebron didn't become one of the GOATS he would be a bust. No player was hyped up as lebron and he lived up to that. Lebron also spent 7 years with the cavs when they were absolutely trash which is something you lebron haters love to purposely ignore he led them to a finals at 22 he faced tougher competition in the finals. 2016, 2017, 2018, warriors and even those spurs teams were better than any other team jordan faced in the finals. Jordan never had a game 7 because the bulls were a superteam they dominated every opponent they had in the finals so a game 7 wasn't needed but if he had to face those warrior teams it would definitely go to 7 games. Lebron dominated since 2010s. Jordan also dominated an era where there was an illegal defense rule which made it easier to score 1 on 1 something you lebron haters love to ignore as well.
They need to keep JJ this dude debating skills are off the chart. Really knowledgeable guy that actually makes sense when he speaks.
Don’t forget how elegant he gives his take so it’s understandable to a range of basketball fans. From novice to experts.
A Duke education does wonders.
His podcast is my favorite thing to watch. He lets his guests actually speak about situations while speaking true basketball knowledge
SA will find a way to fire him
NOT REALLY!
I love how JJ tackled this because he didn’t try to tear down Micheal he propped both of them up complementing Jordan saying how he did so much and elevated the bar so high yet LeBron was able to at least reach it, I hate the debates now a days because all they do is tear down the other
Couldn’t have said it better
Facts
Bobby Knight said MJ was the best at 20 years old when he competed as an Olympian and torched NBA all stars. Their careers have many similarities. Lebron looks like he could play into his early 40’s.
Me too.. I can't stand these "who's better" debates anymore.
Can’t go wrong with either. But i give the edge to Lebron. Especially in the finals, Lebron’s competition was much tougher.
That was the most logical MJ/Lebron conversation I have ever heard...
jj was inpressive but the fact that stephen a racks in massive ratings consistently is nuts
Stephen said literally nothing in his final speech
bro was yappin and yappin but didnt get to a point. was just saying that lebron is better than everyone except for jordan but didnt explain why. (although i agree with him, jordan is the goat lebron number 2 but its really close)@@nathanmulchandani2869
This is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying for years, I just didn’t know how to put it into words. You CANNOT measure Lebron based on Jordan’s blueprint, if you’ve already decided that blueprint is the right way. It’s like measuring greatness based on a bird, but judging a dog for it. Both were great in different ways but if you’ve already DECIDED Jordan is the best, you will NEVER open your eyes and see that all this time you’ve been comparing Lebron to Jordan BASED on Jordan. Does that make sense? You’ve already decided everything Lebron does that isn’t like Jordan is wrong, not just in terms of play style but career paths, so you never allowed Lebron to be great in his own way in the first place, because you’ve already set it in your mind the only way to be great is Jordan’s way.
That’s an incredible point
Preach brother preach, some oldheads need to read this
Well said
What an incredibly dumb way to rationalize a stupid statement like Lebron being as great as Jordan. "Durr if you have decided Jordan is better than Lebron, you will NEVER open your eyes and see" How in your mind is that a rational argument, or line of thought? Maybe you should stop comparing Jordan to Lebron BASED on Lebron. Like. Some Dollar store philosophical stuff bud. Should consider writing fortune cookies.
@@ad7287 Ok. Lemme go ahead and start comparing Jordan to Lebron based off of Lebron. Lebron won 4 Mvps. Jordan won 5. Lebron won 4 finals Mvps. Jordan won 6. Lebron led the league in scoring. Jordan led the league in scoring whilst also winning DPOY. Do I really need to continue? You've already decided Lebron is as good as Jordan, so you will never open your eyes and see durrr. Lol. Ya'll really something else.
This has gotta be the most done to death debate in the the history of ESPN and social media
And counting sadly
With the nba on break they gotta talk about something. 😂
the dumbest debate too
It’s lebrons fault because Jordan being the GOAT is already set in stone and yet lebrons stans still think there’s an argument for him.
Yup. Everyday
JJ is just so elegant with his breakdown. His delivery and intelligence just oozes out with his analysis of the game.
Agreed. He's built for this.
@@JrClips27 jj is a beast
Sounds like you wanna blow him 😂
Y’all are always on y’all knees for this man. It’s actually cringy and pathetic
@@PixelateThat You seem to always be obsessed with someone being on the knees. Why you love to talk about being on the knees so much? God knows what is going through your mind but, hey, I'm not going to judge.
JJ Redick is such a good addition to the show!! I find myself actually finishing whole entire segments which has been rare as of late.
since max left yea
Kids
I never understand the physicality argument. Wouldn't that play in Lebron's favor? He is 6:8 260 and one of the most athletic players ever. Wouldn't it be helpful if he could use those physical tools even more aggressively? Wouldn't that have helped him push steph and KD around more in the finals?
People forget that Bron debuted in 2003, the league was still very physical in that era.
260 pounds and flop like a 100 pounder
@@vanity9105 he has to sell it otherwise the refs won’t call it
@@vanity9105 niggas like this i know only watched Lebron or CP3 for 2 years
@@imneveruploadinghere7180 And he started out weighing about 205. Boston,2000's Pistons,Spurs and Indiana forced him to invest in his body and then he had a center playing guard and three Hall of Famers in the bay. Keep in mind his reliable co‐star Kevin Love was nearly always injured. I am no LeBron sympathizer but he deserves credit.
Stephen A. Smith and JJ has some of the best NBA talks in recent times
Just jj
Just jj
Stephen A has to step up his game or else...
Just jj
Stephen was just babbling the same garbage, cause no matter what anyone does he's said it himself he'll never put anyone above MJ.
I think something not really discussed either is the age of information and social media that exists during the LeBron era. During MJ, everyone just sat and watched and talked amongst their friends. Yeah, there was media people but that's about it. These days it's constant scrutiny by anyone and everyone and it's out there for everyone to see. Trade information and inner-working of the team leaking to the public before players even know about it, constant mind games by everyone. During the 80s bullyball era, you had the toughness and the mind games but once the game was over, it was over. Now, it follows players on their socials and media 24/7.
There's a certain mental fatigue that occurs now amongst players, that no one cares to admit because you're then labeled 'soft' but it certainly hits everyone.
I said the exact same thing. In Michael's day, you could get away with being disrespectful or rude, or saying something stupid in private. Nowadays, if Lebron likes the wrong tweet, or tweets/retweets something misinformed, he's crucified. MJ himself has even said he couldn't have handled the social media era.
Jordan was viral before going viral was a thing I remember the scrutiny he got its why jordan only played 13 seasons he just suffered in silence and let his game speak for him and his popularity made his life on lockdown
Because this generation is sensitive and gets triggered by everything…l don’t think it’s an obstacle to overcome if anything it’s an advantage a player has access to more media and write their on narrative, which a lot players are doing if you are the real deal
We also have to take into account how the evolution of our technology compared to MJ days, everything from the Buses, Private Jets, Trainers, Equipment and Advancement in the Medical Industry. Players in Lebron era had the best of the best from High School til now they’ve been spoiled and pampered; Even with all of that they play less games by load management then back in MJ era despite having the best money can buy. Lebron has been outstanding throughout all the Social Media of these times and can came through with clean hands no scandals at all.
@@hrrspaul4 your a part of this generation.
Lebron had a tougher time in the finals, MJ had a tougher time on the way to the finals….Lebron for the second half of his career played in a notably more offensively skilled league while MJ had to play in an era where the rules made perimeter scoring much harder….MJ didn’t have the benefit of today’s technology, training, and resources whereas Bron has to deal with today’s media cycle and distractions….etc etc, both had a very tough road to greatness but imma give MJ the slight edge
It’s 50/50. Everything affects people differently and so that path becomes harder depending on you. 🤷♂️
Hey guys I post NFL videos make sure to check them out and leave some feedback I’m trying to hit 500 subscribers this year
You made very good points but I’m not sure I agree with perimeter because illegal defense isn’t talked about enough. It was so much easier to score 1 on 1 in the playoffs because of illegal defense rules Back then than now.
This is one of the most fair and balanced comments. Facts
One of the first I can agree with. Good point of view.
People totally rely on physicality and COMPLETELY forget that Jordan played in an era of THE GREATEST interior players of all time. That era of bigs has the most Hall of Famers of ALL TIME, and to be a perimeter player and STILL dominate as Jordan did with the aerial assault he had was unparalleled.
or you can say the era of no one cant shoot outside.
@@chuckchuk5157 Exactly
“Perimeter player” has been redefined since the 90s … where you been ?
@@chuckchuk5157 what? English please?
@@0ebaby072 you couldn't have read what was written.
Thank god, I was really curious to hear ESPNs take on MJ vs Lebron. Really glad they finally decided to take on this often-ignored topic.
Ain’t it great :)
They should ignore it it’s 2 great players in different eras that’s unfair to both of them they never played each other
Often ignored ??? every1 always has bron and Jordan debates they undoubtedly top 2
@@alex4k486 he’s being sarcastic
If you watched the NBA 75 event. Even in Cleveland with LeBron. The crowd let everyone know without a word who the goat was when MJ walked in. When you think basketball, you think Michael Jordan.
Jus because ur more popular doesn’t mean ur better
@@godamgg4478 obviously i know that but you have to factor skill in, impact on the game, accolades, and stats. If we simply wanna talk about skill Kevin Durant is probably the best player of all time. But it’s more than that.
@@godamgg4478 Jordan is better tho. So u wrong on this one
Or maybe a lot of people still hate their hometown hero left for LA and the other guy is the most popular player ever and the event was in the Midwest where Jordan played more time in than lebron lol. Just because people are from Cleveland doesn't make them automatically lebron fans especially considering how controversial he is to the public.
Or maybe a lot of people still hate their hometown hero left for LA and the other guy is the most popular player ever and the event was in the Midwest where Jordan played more time in than lebron lol. Just because people are from Cleveland doesn't make them automatically lebron fans especially considering how controversial he is to the public.
Kobe deserves more respect for what he did, in literally the toughest time to play basketball. Like the guy averaged 35 smack dab in the middle of the 2000s against some of the most defensive teams ever.
Thought I was the only one
Kobe was a sidekick in 2000s
@@sportslangtv2181 Shaq couldn’t win without Kobe either.
@@sportslangtv2181 who was closing? Did he win with Penny? No
@@rohanchaurasia391 who wins finals mvp who's more valuable case close idiot
If you take a look at the playoffs and finals for MJ, you will see Craig Ehlo, Danny Ainge, Dan Majerle, 175 lb Kevin Johnson, Horacek. Lots of slow and bad guards back then with no zone defense. Take a look at Ehlo guarding MJ 1v1 for basically an entire series. Even Dumars are the size of Steph curry, but MJ lost to him most of the time. Peyton did not even guard MJ until it was too late in the Sonic’s series
And if you look LeBron he run, formed a superteam, yelled that he will win 6 only to lose to Dallas. He played with... Wade, Bosh, Allen, Irving, Love, Davis, Westbrook and his fans have a cheek to say he had it tougher. The man.. you listen carefully... run and literally choosed his teams and teammates. And he had it tougher.?
Btw. Rodman was traded for Will Perdue. Not sure you will get this one as you seem pretty dumb.
When Stephen A is having an actual conversation, he shows the talent that he has as a talk show guy
He’s a great analyst when stripped off those rants and wrestle mania manager acts
@@abefroman5437 wrestle mania manager acts 💀💀💀💀
JJ Redick is phenomenal. Keep having him on
There’s Michael Jordan, then there’s everyone else PERIOD!
Stop it 😂
U crazy lol
@@Dany-xs7li He's right tho
Agreed
@@blackdynamite5016 ofc he’s right...that’s y’all opinion 💀if you have the same opinion about something obviously you’d agree but he said nothing worth value...all I saw was a groupie who feels like his favorite player is god 🤣🤣
I think people underrate the fact that Lebron had to play half of his finals vs the GSW warriors, and almost beat the 2015 warriors without Kevin love or Kyrie who were both injured
A valiant evert but lost none regards.. plus the cavs were no scrubs a super star team..
@@Subtopankoklol in 2015 and 2018 the cavs besides bron were scrubs
@@Subtopankoklola loss is a loss, then a win is also a win. Bill russel is the Goat
Kobe has the most wins in NBA history against 50-win teams with a record of 25-10. That’s 5 more wins than Jordan and LeBron isn’t close to either. In fact, Kobe has more wins from 2008-2010 than Magic Johnson had in his entire career.
The disrespect that Kobe gets from the media - specifically ESPN is absolutely insane. Oscar Robertson is no doubt one of the greatest basketball players in NBA history, but Kobe is by far more accomplished individually and it isn’t even close. He also has a winning record against Tim Duncan and the last time he faced them they were defending champs as he smacked them out of the building.
Kobe is great and deserves more credit. But are you trying to make a goat case for him?
Kobe also got smacked by Dirk in the playoffs the year Kobe was coming off a championship. Point is Kobe isn’t top 5
@@CriusXI na but he should be 6th no lower than that. And you can make a case he can be fifth. They’ve been doing this to Kobe before he died. The disrespect. I remember they rated him like out the top 10 one season and they told him and he just laughed. Half these people do it base on feelings. And some jut didn’t like Kobe due to things outside the nba.
Kobe is at least top 5 for SURE
@@Marctastic1 Oh yea I understand, i just thought this was a goat case or something
The problem with these debates or making an actual list of the greats is that the factors players dealt with legitimately changed every decade. Whether it be the actual rules of the game, the adjustments to equipment (ball, 3pt range, jerseys, sneakers, etc), pace of play or how subjective level of competition during a given era may be, we should all be able to agree that its impossible to accurately rank players across decades without injecting a ton of bias. A better arguement to make would be to rank players agaisnt their peers during individual decades. An example of this making sense is that if you only looked at the 90's Jordan would top the list, but if you looked at his time in the 80's he wouldn't be able to compare to Bird or Magic, the opposite is true since both of those guys were old, broken and on the way out of the league during Jordan peak. Another example would be how much more physical the game was than the decade that came after, while we can never know how a player who came later would do during that time, we definitely know how players in that decade handled things. So, honestly it makes way more sense if we just put player rankings in their proper context and dropped a term like goat for one gote....greatest of their era
Absolutely!!!! This right here would end alot of this nonsense. To many different factors. Yes I would say the game today has evolved to a way more talented league from the knowledge that previous eras have provided and access to adequate training todays kids have, but that doesn't take away from the boundaries previous gens had to break in order to get here.
Wem well
explain
@CordialConflict - correct, which is why you look at how well you dominated your peers. Team and Individual accolades will represent this and not accumulative stats as accumulative stats do not reflect changes in eras.
So let's look at accolades for Team and Individual.
MJ - 6 rings, 6 FMVP, 5MVP, DPOY, x10 scoring champ, x3 steals leader, x9 defensive 1st.
LBJ - 4 rings, 4 FMVP, 4MVP, x1 scoring, x1 assist, x5 defensive 1st
KAJ - x6 titles, x2 Finals MVP, 6 NBA MVP, x2 scoring champ, x1 rebounding champ, x4 Blocks leader, x5 All NBA defensive 1st team (19 Seasons)
Just this alone would show that KAJ and LBJ are far closer, with KAJ edging it out as he dominated his peers a little more than LBJ, whereas MJ is out of reach for both.
bball is very simple, if you think youre the best offensive player PROVE IT ie lead the league in scoring or assist, if you think you're the best defensive player PROVE IT ie lead the league in steals/blocks - MJ is the only player in history to prove he can play both ends CONSISTENTLY while winning chips
Agree. Comparing players in different era is pointless.... it's just a pointless debate.
So we just going to overlook that they put Kobe at 10??? After Wilt, Bird, and Robertson????? ESPN is on crack
They purposely forget all the pressure and expectations he had to go through smh
@Aaron9 like u have watched a single game Wilt has played smh
Most people have Kobe at 10. The crazier part is Shaq isn’t top 10
Shaq is greater than a few of those names. Kobe should be higher.
@@LeChina 100% agree he should’ve been 9 take Big O off
Maybe an interesting point here- you know that bar that MJ set that makes it so difficult for other players to live up to? Well while that bar was steadily developing MJ had to live up to it as well. Funny thing, if LeBron didn't do well or live up to some bar etc there could be a certain percentage of reasoning that says "well it's ok he's no MJ" or even what was said in this video where it's a great accomplishment just to reach or get close to that bar set by MJ... but during MJ's rise it got so insane, so viral, really the whole world was watching; it was uncanny. It all culminated with this understanding that MJ was the best and anything less than him being the best was a shock and massive defeat. Every team was gunning for MJ, every team had significant amounts of game plans to neutralize him. LeBron faced a similar situation, no doubt, but SAS is right, MJ faced a bit worse. Just those Knicks games alone... players get scalped driving to the hoop, and obviously the Pistons, but folks may not remember Celtics were nasty too, the Celtics would lump players up, and so would Utah, so we're the Lakers, so we're the 76'ers, just to name a few. Teams were loaded with grit but so many teams had great players too, stars, many had great duos. Plus 3pt game wasn't like it is today, which meant a lot of coaches weren't interested in players hanging around the perimeter, everyone had to get dirty, everyone had to bang. I give the edge to MJ in what they had to deal with.
I think there is something to the weight of media expectations that Lebron has had to carry and carry responsibly his entire life. As good as Jordan was coming out of UNC he didn’t have NEAR the expectations that Lebron did coming out of HIGH SCHOOL! That being said, people did expect him to be a Jordan clone and he isn’t. All these media types spent their beginnings of their careers covering and watching Jordan now they worship at his alter. Everything that Lebron did differently from Jordan was considered wrong instead of him having the full license to just be different. They are both iconic and great. You cannot really compare eras. The entire league was remade in Jordan’s image of athleticism. The next generation will be remade in the image of Steph Curry and skill based play and shooting.
Lebron has put some of those unfair expectations on himself. Tattoos that say the chosen one. That's bringing things in yourself. Also comments when he got smoked in the playoffs and says I could have dropped 50 if I wanted. Well if you could have done it, why didn't you. Michael talked on the court but didn't act like that off the court. He didn't go around saying he was the best. He knew he was. I also think when he played was harder than Lebron's era. The league is so soft now. Lebron is an amazing player but behind Jordan in my opinion. I can see the argument for Lebron though.
@@bryanwood8334 Exactly and saying how great he was before he even touched an NBA floor. That's one of the reasons I've never liked the guy. Then he goes on to say "We're not gonna win 1, not 2, not 3, but 6 championships." Lol
Kid was 18 with the weight of a franchise and city on his shoulder he still gets critiqued for everything he does and has been since he came in the league
Ty
@@bryanwood8334 y’all keep trying to come up with every reason to why the media was hard on this man even without the tattoo the pressure was there and high af. He showed he could drop 50 if he shoot the ball a lot but that’s not his style I’m not even a Bron fan and y’all find the weirdest stuff to hate on him about. You mad because he’s confident whew please don’t watch any other athlete
I remember being in the 10th grade; Lebron was playing an AAU game in my state and the basketball players in my high school were comparing him back then. We were all teenagers including Lebron!
I’m a bit older than you but looking at LeBron’s body type back then, with him being so young and relatively big in stature I thought he’d gain (unhealthy) weight or have bad knees or ankles.
I had absolutely no clue that he’d become the dominant superstar he’s become, which spans decades.
Keep in mind that when LeBron entered the league, players were viewed as thugs with entourages, fathers of many children out of wedlock with different women, and weed smoking reckless money spenders.
As the face of the league, LeBron marrying Savannah and raising their family, working with his friends/business partners, placing emphasis on physical fitness and mentoring younger players and children, he’s changed the perception of the league and given younger players inspiration as the league views the players more like partners as opposed to employees like in the past.
LBJS game is soft but nobody gonna talk about how he flops for calls 😡 at the end of the day you can’t be call a goat 🐐 when you’re in the final’s and your record is 4-6 .. last but not least. I doubt wanna hear 💩 about who the f-k he married to, what that got to do with it. The Stans is creepy 🤦🏽
@@chi-townlowend1812 you mad bro 🤕🤣🤣🤣
They're very different players from different eras.
LeBron is like a Magic Johnson with Charles Barkley's athleticism. A guy who loves to facilitate and create opportunities for his teammates since that's where he strives the best, great passing along with his incredible athleticism which is one of the best in the league.
MJ was more of a scorer, a Larry Bird type of player. An assassin who wanted to kill you on the court every time. Think of Larry Bird's killer mentality and shooting ability combined with LeBron's athleticism and speed and you got MJ.
A lot of y'all say the league is soft nowadays which is true when you compare it to the 80's-90's. MJ would definitely average at least 40 ppg with today's soft defence. However, it would be very interesting to see LeBron play in that era! How physically dominant he would allowed to be because of hand checking rules and physicality, he'd be like a Rick Mahorn with 2x the athleticism.
Magic and Bird made the sport famous in North America, but MJ took it to a whole another level. He made the sport global, he IS basketball in a way. My uncles from Poland used to wake up in the middle of the night just to get a glimpse of his matches in the 80's/90's against the lakers, suns, jazz etc. It's very difficult to surpass that for LeBron since MJ is like a threshold that's unlikely to be surpassed by any player. NBA was already a global sport when LeBron entered it at 18, with Shaq, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade etc.
MJ to Basketball is what Michael Jackson is to pop music.
Agree with most but MJs defense on the ball or anywhere was better than LeBron.
LeBron was a better help side defender and his chase down blks were good too. Mike had his share of those too.
But over all the defensive edge goes to MJ. Mike could take away your best player and score 30.
- and clutch/killer instinct I edge to Mike too
@@fasteddie0306 You're right buddy, MJ was just as good defensively, which is very rare in basketball. Some say he was even better defensively. I've never watched him play live since I'm way too young for that but he was a terrific perimeter defender, his last play for the bulls proves that. The way he steals the ball away from Karl Malone and hits the game winning shot is some of the most legendary moments in sports! Kevin Durant is kind of like that, I still remember his game winning 3s against the cavaliers and it gives me goosebumbs till this day!
MJ is the best.
Charles Barkley athleticism? Are you kidding me?
LeBron is the better all around player mj better shooter but we will probably never see another LeBron James with that build and physique plus can do everything on the court Kobe was the last time we saw another player play like Jordan LeBron has his own style you can't really imitate gifted in a different way interesting if the two played against each other
Stephen ended the debate well at the end. He gave both of them props for their greatness.
That move Jordan pulled on Bird is almost 40 years old and it's still a refreshingly sick
I always say that LeBron had the tougher Finals opponents but MJ had a tougher road to reach them.
Facts. Same opinion.
This is why Jordan has fell short to reach the Finals so many times and why LeBron has more losses than wins in the Finals.
Jordan was rhe warriors. That is why the bulls are the bulls
Tell everybody who MJ had to go through from 92-98. Name the teams and name the defenders he faced aside from Gary Payton.
@@okay2584 just defenders, in the East there was Starks (multiple times), Rodman & Dumars. Rodman wasn't his primary match-up but he did guard him some. Ehlo was a decent defender but he DEFINITELY wasnt in that class as All 3 are All Defensive team guys & he never got there. As for teams, there's the Pistons (Rodman, Thomas, Dumars), 76ers (Barkley), Knicks (Ewing), Cavs (Price & Daugherty), Knicks again, Heat (Rice & Smith), Knicks again, Cavs again, Hawks (Dominique). That's just 91-93. Of those 9 series, only 3 times did MJ not have to go through another HOF player just to get to the Finals.
Max- "lebron road in the nba has been tougher because he isn't as good as Michael jordan"
Facts!!
I actually think the modern rules work against LBJ. The amount of times he gets called for a charge for just blasting the defender away when he dips his shoulder. He would just steamroll everyone in the 90s
U know they still called charges in the 90s lol. The modern rules definitely don’t work against Lebron at all. You could literally steer a defender to where you wanted them to go in the handcheck era. A whole different level of physicality.
No they still called charges in the 90s trust
@@frostedflakes55 they also had man to man defence. Wouldn't even be an issue
Ever since MJ's loud and standing ovation at the All Star & Rich Paul's absurd comments this has been the topic since Sunday
Where Kobe is aint right. He is at the bare minimum a top 5 player of all time. Others would argue top 3
he's anywhere from 6-7, yall want him to be top 3 so bad
Issue with Kobe is that he was far more inefficient of a shooter than any of those players above them. Top 5 for shooting 45% for your career is woeful. It also took him 4 years in the league to become a significant player which is another disadvantage compared to the other players above him. However, in terms of being clutch and winning titles, definitely top 5.
@@bmorejunior delusional fan base
Lebron took parts of MJ and integrated it into his own game, Kobe literally tried to be an MJ clone. U don’t get a ton of credit for trying to be a carbon copy of someone else hence why he’s typically out the top 5.
Exactly I totally agree 😊💯
They both had it tough. The problem for lebron was the media overhyping him before he even stepped on an NBA court calling him the chosen one. He did live up to expectations (depending on who you are) but that's a lot of pressure to put on an 18 year old.
For Jordan it was the pressure of proving that a scoring leader can lead a team to a championship.
As for the media wanting lebron to play more like Jordan (and the haters) saying he needs to take the game winners like Jordan or Kobe, they use to say that Jordan needed to play like magic or bird and trust his teammates more.
Mj had absolutely no pressure, the league was on his D the 1st day he played in the league, you had plumbers like bird calling him god
@@dadillonful you already lost when you said bird is a plumber!!! Nothing you say matters after that 😂😂
Jordan and bird were nothing like Micheal Jordan and not on his level of athletic ability or basketball skill set. LeBron was not overhyped by people who saw him play, as I did and saw he was the truth.
Both definitely had pressure on and off the court. But there is no denying that Bron faced the better competition.
@@elioenaiporto6881 in the finals yes.
LeBron faced the Spurs 3 times in the Finals and GSW 4 times. MJ never had to face a team like that
His road to the finals was much easier
@@anthonyarellano8629 it looked easier because lebron made it easier for his team.
2 of those final against the spurs miami had better talent.
I dif
Put 80s celtics better than the 2007-2014 spurs
2 of the meets with the warriors, cavs had the same amount of talent.
So really its just the 2018 warriors when lebron had an harder obstacle as he only had kevin love
@@Coldskin1 prime spurs would have won by 30 points each game vs 80s celtics
@@Coldskin1but mj didnt play against prime 80s celtics to win a title.. whats yout point?? mj somehow came after magic kareem and birds celtics. finished right before shaqs lakers. best comp was the knicks for mj??? pippen took them to 7games without mj so mj had easiest comp.
MJ wasn’t just a player, at that time he was the meaning of Basketball.
Due to marketing and advertising stern wanted basketball to be global before the 92 Olympics they needed a face , bird and magic were out the door
@@andreterrell8412 -
And being the face of basketball, and all of the companies he endorsed, not to exclude needing to bring a championship to Chicago, then the pressures of scoring a repeat, then a 3peat, then his return, scoring another repeat, then a 3peat, and being asked by Phill Jackson to be the leader when Michael was battling his own vices like alcohol, infidelity, etc., is a lot of pressure, that really no other playing in the NBA was asked to take on and show results.
@@thespadestable it wasn’t no pressure when he knew stern had the refs protect jordan hence the 91 rule change
@@andreterrell8412 -
Jordan did not ask for the rule change, Stern realized he needed to protect Michael from Michael and the other players. It was pretty clear that Michael enjoyed driving to the rim, and it was pretty clear defensive players were willing to deliver hard fouls in return. Something has to give when you have a Billion Dollar Baby in the palm of your hands.
Lastly, the rule did not just favor Jordan, the rule began to crackdown on malicious fouls on many other players. Fewer and fewer visuals of NBA past was taking place, and that was players with busted noses, lips, black eyes, and facial contusions, that was not rare in the ABA and even the NBA of the 70's, to include spanning into the early to mid-80's.
Its media made him that.. i think bird and magic is qualified too. But i dont know what happened there. 😂🤣😅
that truth is , Kobe's lakers really had the toughest road , Kobe's team defeated the most 50+ win teams . While winning 5 of them chips
No they didn't
Who Shaq had to guard and play against
The west was absolutely stacked during Kobe's tenure. Mavs, Suns, and Spurs.
Then you had the nuggets, jazz with prime D Williams and Boozer, Rockets with T Mac and Yao, and the Timberwolves made a run at one time.
Spurs and Lakers made it hard for a lot of legends to make deep runs into the playoffs
All facts 🎯👏🏾
@@NinodaBlogger let's talk until the last chip , Shaq was gone after 04.
Kobe and shaq best duo of all time
You've never heard MJ say he's the GOAT. He let's others call him that. But I also think the term GOAT is like a puzzle. Everybody is a piece of that GOAT puzzle. It's a potluck and everyone brings something different to the table.
You sound dumb af …. Not tryna be harsh or mean … but who cares …. So what . Lebron isn’t Jordan …. Jordan never Built schools for kids either …
He had a whole Netflix documentary for that. And if you don't believe that your the goat who else should believe it then
Just because he didn’t say it doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe it. And if he did say it, it wouldn’t change anything
Walter Payton said it best.
Building school for Kids is a great thing.
The Bulls won 55 games and went to the conference finals after Jordan left the first time, when Lebron left the Cavs the won 19 games...
How many games did they win before Jordan
Since MJ's hot debate against Wilt and Bill Walton was the one who told the story, MJ would alway say how he respects the players that came before him. There's a photo of MJ and Wilt and you can tell MJ is listening.
It's 55/45 in favor of MJ. The Defenses of the Great 80s Celtics,Bad Boys,90s Knicks MJ had to face was brutal ...
But he didn't beat the 80s celtics in their prime, or the bad boys in their prime and he had the better team vs the knicks lmao
Suure
MJ had help with pippen though. He wasn't on his own like lebron was for the first cavs time. Pippen is better than anyone lebrons played with.
Conversely the defense of the 00's was the best and hardest on superstars. Even MJ admitted that his career would have been different if he would have had to deal with the defense of the new era
@@bobhanson1037 no tf he not. Wade is better than pippen. 😂😂
This makes me wanna watch the last stand. MJ was a god on the basketball court. Amazing documentary!
The Last Dance*, the last stand is a terrible X-Men movie haha
@@aceiams9560 yea lol I heard the last stand and got regretful chills down my spine
- Stephen A: Jordan had a tougher road
- JJ: actually, here’s why Lebron may have had a tougher road
- Stephen A: let me respond to that and elevate my game by not responding and going off-topic
lebron jumpshipped forming super teams and still kept loosing. The Bulls dynasty was built on Jordan, Pippen was not an all star when he came to the league, not even a starter in his rookie season.Jackson, Grant, Armstrong, Triangle Offense are all part of Bulls development. Jordan went through the grind, took the punishment and humiliation that is why he is respected more than lebron. Just look at the 2022 Lakers, lebron even failed to make it to the first round with a space jam team. He is not in the same level as Jordan. FYI Jordan revolutionized the game of basketball and took the game to the next level that is why the NBA became global and popular
@@alfray1072 dumb take .. so would you have him tank to get players from the draft .. or play well enough to have players come play with you . . Every player wants to play with great players foh
@@fairfieldgulley2401 who told you so? Players back then wanted to beat each other not team up with them especially Jordan, Magic and Bird and now Giannis. Lebron's weakest part is he could not attract players during his prime in Cleveland that is why he had to jumpship to Miami.
They love saying the east was weak but let lbj had joined those pacer, hawks, raptor teams they would’ve called them a superteam
I mean... Teams were making the playoffs in the east with 37-45 records. Doesn't mean the east didn't have 2 or 3 good teams but overall compared to the west at the time it was weaker.
I think it's just about the same. Jordan suffering was more of a physical while Bron is more of a mental pressure.
I feel you on this
Lebron’s competition was on a different level. People should do research on the evolution of the game and the evolution of recruiting talent.
@@Robertedwinhouse38 his road to the finals is weak but his finals opponents is harder but lets not act like mj did face some plumbers in the 90s lol and the competition is more harder back then cuz of the fouls and you said it yourself "recruiting talent" it became a trend its because of lebron lol
@@dxtremecaliber oh my bad mark Eaton was a mechanic not a plumber. My bad. And by recruiting talent I meant the nba recruiting talent from the world. Lebron plays the best in the world Jordan didn’t.
@@Robertedwinhouse38 that comment couldn't be more incorrect. You think the best players in the world all play in the NBA? LoL
There are players who we will never know who have Hall of Fame NBA talent.
And Mark Eaton was the defensive player of the year like 2-3 times. He wasn't a scrub.
I like how Stephen A’s reply to JJ had nothing to do with what he was saying 💀💀
The fact there is a debate between the two is already an achievement in its on. I grew up watching both MJ and LBJ and to me, they're the GOATS to be in different eras. The game is completely different today and both have their pros & cons. I will not argue between those who chooses sides and both can be correct. I simply can say that I got to watch both play at their highest level and in between them, I got to enjoy Kobe. MJ and LBJ are two completely different type of players on and off the court. Kobe would be the more carbon print of MJ, but he had SHAQ and Gasol. . . something MJ never had. You can then start breaking down the competition in those eras as well. You'll never get everyone to side as it's always going to be a date.
Its not an achievement...its called “paid advertisement” by Nike.
Nike owns Lebron and theyve paid media outlets to perpetuate this conversation. Its horsesh*t...nobody w a real gauge believes it even a little.
Imma just agree on lebron and mj both being goats depending on way your stand.
Lebron had to live up to jordan as a young kid on the cover of sports illustrated. Raised fatherless,carrying the weight of expectations and media scrutiny placed at such a young age. He not only achieved but far exceeded expectations. Improving year in year out. 3pts shooting, jumpers, fadeaway midrange shooting. Constantly working on improving his offensive arsenal despite being able to score in the paint by simpling driving to the lane. Facing the greatest regular season team in nba history and coming back from 3-1 down. Dragging those early Cavs team to the eastern conference finals against teams laden wit all stars.
Obviously Jordan 6fmvp /6 wins
10 scoring champs /defensive player of the team / multiple all defensive team/ 30.1pts per game average for a career cannot be discarded and overlooked but so can't lebron statistics probably will retire wit 40k/12k/12k( that too cantbe overlooked)
LeBron picked to play with Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Kyrie, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Melo... and only has four championships. He can't be #2
Someone with sense. And it's impossible that Kobe is #10 when he took Pau Gasol and the Lakers to 3 straight championships and beat the modern superteam Celtics who have 3 top 75 players. Pau Gasol , Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest....did NOT make the top 75 list.
I totally agree with you. Finally someone who understands what Lebron is really about. Lebron is weak!
As a Bulls fan I'm 100% biased, but Jordan stayed here in Chicago and eventually beat his nemesis the Pistons by simply waiting on his teammates to improve around him.
Lebron overcame his nemesis the Celtics by going to another team and joining Dwyane Wade. Wade was one of the top 3 stars in the league at the time and had already won a championship without LeBron. Lebron got his first two rings in Miami beating OKC and San Antonio who were two teams that were largely created organically from the draft so LeBron had an easier road.
As people say LeBron had a tough road because of Golden State but LeBron created Golden State. Durant only went to Golden State because LeBron opened the gates when he first went to Miami. Durant and OKC may have actually won the NBA Finals in 2012 had LeBron not gone to the Heat and formed the Big 3. If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh were on 3 separates teams in 2012, those 3 teams might not have been able to defeat the Thunder. OKC were the best organic team in 2012, without the Big 3 in Miami Durant may have won in 2012 and might not have joined Golden State later on. So LeBron actually created his struggles, Jordan did not.
Also, why does ESPN have Kobe ranked at 10? When Kobe was active in his prime, he was closer to the top 5 then closer to 10.
the nba made that list not espn did you not see the all star game
As much as I want to disagree, I can’t. Well said argument
I’ve been saying that for so long
I agree with you about Kobe being ranked too low. Players like Bill Russel and Wilt shouldn't be ahead of him. There were 8 teams in the NBA when Russel was drafted and Russel was the tallest player at 6-9. Imagine Kobe playing back then. He would average 60 points, 20 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 blocks, and 10 steals a game.
@@RossRadikSherman we gotta be fair to those guys and their time. Those 8 teams were probably the best teams on the planet at the time.
In terms of pure basketball perspective, I think the opponents MJ faced were harder.
But in terms of just overall who had the more challenging career, it is hands down Lebron James.
Coming into the league, he had more hype than ANYONE else ever and he was 17 and a half years old, straight out of highschool. Grew up in poverty under a single mom with no father presence to speak of. Plus he is the first transcendent player to play in a social media era, where every single minute of his life gets reported and talked about. Eveyrthing about his life exposed and amplified. I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of stress and pressure that would create for ordinary people like us, let alone to a 18 year old kid.
And to live up to that hype and pressure the way he did, with no mental, personal life issues to speak of. The role model that he is and the things he has done for his community...while being arguably the second greatest player to ever play....I cannot imagine a single person, other than Lebron himself, to pull off what he did in his life. What he has done in his life is absolutely amazing.
Is he a bit soft and sensitive at times? yeah he is. No doubt.
Does he flop a bit too much at times? Absolutely.
But love him or hate him, I am 99.99% sure that all of you that comment here to berate Lebron, every single one of you would not be able to handle the pressure and responsibilities that Lebron had to handle. Not even close. Period. What MJ had to face outside the court, does not even belong in the same ball park as what Lebron had to endure.
I can’t believe your comment got zero replies and four likes. I completely agree
I respect your opinion but I disagree in saying that in terms of basketball, that micheal had it harder. Let’s be clear micheal era was more physical and had greats like bird, magic, Kareem, Malone, and etc. but when you look at lebrons competition and the skill set of each one, it’s utterly insane to think about .
@@jamesii30 In terms of the finals match up, I do believe MJ's opponents weren't as great as the opponents Bron faced, hence 6-0. And I do agree that overall the skill level of players today are higher than in the 90's.
But I factored in the fact that the league was not friendly towards perimeter players as it was big-man dominant and that is why I thought, personally it was more difficult for MJ to dominate that era.
But I do see where you are coming from as I agree with most of what youve said.
How was his career more challenging when he could hit the reset button every few years, taking his talents to South Beach, back to Cleveland, to LA, etc.? He played with far more all-stars and all NBA players than Jordan.
@@johnjones528 maybe read the comment before you reply? I literally said in terms of basketball career, Jordan had more challenging career.
The physical barriers to Michaels success were harder. The psychological barriers Lebron had to face were harder.
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Great comment. You’re right
That's a great analogy.
Perfectly said!
A great and accurate assessment
The thing about the "physicality" argument is that... LeBron is one of the strongest players we've ever seen. If LeBron was allowed to be much more physical, he would be even greater
Lebron is not that strong, kobe was definitely stronger than him. He looks strong because the NBA let him make offensive foul evertime he drive to the basket.
@@HPcelui lol
@@HPcelui u r crazy😂
@@HPcelui 😭😂😂😭😭😭
@@HPcelui 6’9”, 260 lbs. and you’re telling me he’s not that strong. okay bud 😂
Wilt Chamberlain said it best "Nobody roots for Goliath" But if the 32 Gms could pick any player from all NBA history to start a team today, Wilt would get 16 picks and Kareem would get the other 16 picks.
Eh Lebron and MJ would get some picks
Stephen A's argument starts with him saying that he remembers the 80's Celtics, Sixers and Lakers teams like Jordan had beaten any of them....he only faced the Celtics and had no chance , once the 90s rolled around as he mentions, the great teams from the 80s were all gone....end of the Celtics era, end of the Sixers era, end of Showtime and Kareem retired so basically the 90s as wild open....yes, the Bulls had the best team and the best player and ohhh the best coach in that decade...what a surprise they dominated....the Bulls won 55 games without Jordan, that's how weak their competition was...facts, Jordan was the greatest player until 2018 Lebron, and yes, Lebron's road to greatness was much harder simply because of the expectation and hype and hate....the fact that this is even a debate is just shameful...the media still tries to do everything to push their agenda for Jordan and his status
Smh unbelievable
Everything you say is absolutely correct. I try to tell Jordan fans (which I am, too) all of the points you mentioned, and they brush it under the rug and try to rewrite history. I'm not downing him for his struggles, but we shouldn't down LeBron for his challenges either.
You guys can still debate who's the GOAT, but it's funny to me how you guys are debating this in Lebron's 19 years of playing compared to Jordan's 13 half years lmao. That to me tells me who's the GOAT, if it takes you 19 years of playing and still not agreed you're the GOAT in comparison to someone that only played 13 years,,, come on, not even a comparison.
@@thecliffold5879 drop the 2015 cavs in the 90s..does jordan win 6 rings without adding a charles barkely or a hakeem?? You know the answer lol..the 90s were watered down due to expansion..weakest era since the 60s
@@thecliffold5879 Mike Drop…….He will never surpass Jordan.
Notice how everyone talks lebron finals competition and not his conference competition. There's a reason why lebron struggles to have an impact in the western conference. Jordan bulls had to deal with the superteam celtics and pistons, kobe lakers had to play the superteam spurs just to get out of the western conference.
So conference competition is more important than the actual CHAMPIONSHIP competition?! What type of backwards logic is that?
@@stevenjackson8526 The debate is literally who faced more obstacles, you can't just ignore the conference and go straight to the finals.
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MJ won every finals he was in… & lost a lot of playoff series. 1st round outed. Something LeBron hasn’t done. MJ didn’t win until everyone was too old or retired.
To be honest the Celtics and Pistons being there saved Jordan’s finals legacy because if he got to the finals against the Lakers early in they woulda obviously smacked the Bulls in the 80s. The way things worked out was a blessing in disguise because no one cares he lost in the early rounds.
I really feel Kobe gets grossly overlooked in these debates
Tbf Kobe was great, but he just simply isn’t as good as MJ and Bron
It’s funny because guys who actually played in the league rank Kobe top 3 or top 5 but the media ranks him 10 behind Oscar Roberson
@@trxmp24 unbelievable
@@trxmp24 what's even funnier is casuals actually believe those BSpn rankings SMH
@@rorisangpitswane3595 that's not true he definitely belongs in the debate and I suggest you go watch some videos by dom2k or Jonny Arnett. Kobe is really underrated.
Debating media pressure doesn’t mean you’re greater than another player. That’s another topic of discussion.
There was no big expectations for MJ starting out and even during his reign in the NBA. It's tougher for LBJ because aside from very high expectations set upon him, he had to be compared to MJ and Kobe every step of the way. MJ set the bar for standards, LBJ was able to reach it in his own ways & not by following MJ or Kobe's steps. And along the way, he did other things which for me made him a better man/ person.
Facts. Say it again for the people in the back
You sound stupid. Lebron wants to be MJ so bad and it’s so obvious. Copying his eyes closed while shooting a free throw even tho he can’t make them with his eyes open, not to mention he felt the need to do a space jame 2 movie.
@@roreo5539 and he even said he’s the greatest of all time on live. Lol
@@roreo5539 you must be a kid to present arguments as flimsy as this. Either that or your a Trumpster, which is like the first one I mentioned, so 🤷
Tougher like 2011 NBA FINALS 8points at HIS PRIME WITH 2 ALL-STARS. Tougher than JJ Barrea guarding him. But anyway stay safe and peace to all.
Jordan is way ahead of his time despite the physical barrier. While in Lebron's, everyone has caught on skills, he had to play it smarter or out-hustle his opponent.
the last thing you want to compare is MJ's hustle to Lebron's. It just shows what you do not know
@S A Physicality is different for each era, the 90's era had hand checking, a big mans game, and definitley more shoving and hitting.. I understand there's more player movement now but that doesn't prove your point. The mentality back then was different. If your finger was broken it was taped up and you get back on the court. Now you get 4 to 5 weeks off. Before the Splash brothers the game wasn't that much different either.
In my opnion, the reason Lebron has to work harder on offence is because he made it complicated for himself. For eg. MJ, Kareem, Harden, and etc.. made offence easy because they had go to moves that they can use at any point of the game to control the tempo. Lebron's go to is to barrel down the lane which is not always available. If he had an unstoppable move, he wouldn't have to pass and rely on plays and on his team mates. Joel Embiid is becoming one of these players. When Harden cannot go for his step back or floater, it becomes a 2 to 3 man game. Lebron didn't simplify his offence like this. He is better now because his shooting has improved but before 2016, you can only rely on him in the paint.
Of course no one want's to discuss defence.
@Alvin Joe So you agree MJ beats Bron in the hustle department. why even comment? Are you an english teacher?
@Alvin Joe because you started it
Mj didn't switch teams to win rings either. Plus I personally think Kobe is 2nd then Lebron
lebron has more mvps and fmvps than kobe, leads kobe is literally every stat and you say kobe is second 😂
yeah because MJ had scottie and rodman in his team so why would he switch
Irrelevant.
That's because LeBum, is a stats hugger and creates super teams every time he loses.
I agree..
LeBron's path was not as tough as MJ. Lebron kept taking the easy route, building teams and stacking the deck in his favor. And the crazy thing is, with all that deck stacking, he may have been to the finals 10xs, but he's also loss more finals than he won. MJ was not going to the finals to entertain a game 7, let alone lose. Lebron can't claim that. He's had more firepower than MJ and he still loss. Lebron dominated a conference, Jordan dominated The ENTIRE league.
if ESPN was smart they’d hire JJ full time to debate SAS. i’d watch all 2 hours of the show every day
You know I think Rich Paul and Stephen A are arguing two different sides of the same coin. Stephen A is talking about strictly on the court obstacles MJ faced regarding rules and physicality and that’s why he says MJ has the harder road. And let’s also add to the argument that even though social media wasn’t a thing, Jordan still had almost as limited privacy as a person could have in that time period. But Jordan was a more mature man during his playing years. He also had almost a luxury of being overlooked throughout his life by his coaches until he really began to flourish. Plus a relationship to his parents that really helped guide him through a lot of decisions he made like with his Nike deal, he didn’t have the spotlight put on him until he was ready for it. Lebron had the spotlight and expectations heaped on him as a child, not having the luxury of having stable upbringing. Plus never going to college and getting that chance to grow, he did all his growing in the public eye living in MJs shadow where the media just wants you to be Jordan but the two of you are just nothing alike. Plus it’s not like Lebron was facing a bunch of slouches on the court either. Overall both faced horrible obstacles, can’t forget MJs fathers murder of all things but it’s a different argument on two sides.
I’ve always thought that Bron is Simply more versatile that Jordan however Jordan was easily more skilled in my opinion at one point however LeBron’s Ability to add on to his game and mold and grow himself into whatever he needs to be successful is Great and Resourceful LeBron and Mj are both incredible athletes but I’ll kinda go with LeBron had the harder path on this one
People also like to watch others fail when they challenge their stars.
Of course LeiBwong had the harder path- he's an inferior player. He's had prime Top10 All-Stars sacrificing for him, though. He jumps from team to team to gain the advantage. And he's lost sooo much. It's so hard for LeiBwong. No 3peat, no dynasty, didn't dominate the NBA- just the weak East.
MJ had to duke it out with Magic and Larry....just look where they are on the All-time list. LeiBwong didn't have to face a Magic or Larry.
The Lebron is versatile thing is a myth. Advanced metrics show he guards wings over 95 percent of the time, he has always hated not playing small forward and complains every time he has to, and he insists on playing at the slowest pace with an incredibly stagnant your turn my turn offense.
Don’t believe the myth created by his athletic gifts, how he uses them is the reality.
lol
@@Primenumber19 do me a favor and watch his first run in Cleveland for me 🤣
The Bron would have flourished in that “physicality”. He is build for that. Who would not flourished would be Duncan, Parker, Durant, Curry, Dirk, etc. If that’s the case, how many would Bron have won?
he’s not built for that. he’s just big. dude stay on the ground crying in this cupcake era
No he wasn't. Early Detroit bullied him. He also got the boot from Dwight Howard . and nobody remembers anybody from that magic team.
Bring was built for flopping.
I think when shutting down Steph in his prime with KD with the best record in NBA history all while coming back from a 3-1 Finals Conference which was also never accomplished solidified Lebron as the G.O.A.T. I think no one could have done that besides him 🤷♂️
Kd wasn't there yet lol...
LeBron might have the more difficult Finals series, but Jordan faced more 50 and 60 win teams in the Playoffs. We celebrate LeBron's consecutive Finals trips but tend to forget that since 2010, he has had the most firepower against arguably the weakest East in history. His greatest competition on his road to the Finals are who? An injured DRose and PG?
Jordan beat the likes of the Bad Boys, Ewing's Knicks, Reggie's Pacers, Mourning's Heat, Price's Cavs and Shaq's Magic. All these team's are legit contenders that could have won a ring if Jordan was out of the picture. The Knicks alone would have been the dynasty of the 90s if not for Jordan. LeBron can never make that claim.
I hope y’all quit saying the pacers because the pacers were heavy underdogs in those series. So please stop using them because it’s a flat out lie. The expansion era!!
@@joelvance4969 Mike lost to the best teams he played
GP and The Supersonics, Barkley and the Sun's, and OH not to mention Malone and Stockton.
@@DOLLAMAC190 lol you forgot Penny and Shaq
Jordan didn't beat Detroit till they aged out and his team got more firepower.
LeBron said a few things during the all star weekend and all I've heard is scrutiny on every debate show since. That's even after becoming a 4 time champion. 4 time MVP. Most All NBA appearances. Once Jordan broke through everyone worshipped the ground he walked on. It was the two MJs. Jordan and Jackson. LeBron still gets just as much hate as he does love, which is ridiculous at this point.
Lebron gets hate because he’s wild overrated by his fans and the media fans.
@@DanteGoldz overrated Huh ? Lmao
@@shawnba2294 yes overrated can't you read lol
@@shawnba2294 MJ simps are delusional. They do anything to protect the imagine of MJ in their minds
Lebron not overrated it’s just his fan boys throw loose talk instead of facts when debating or they do like what Shannon and Nick do disrespect Jordan like he played all bums and Lebron played all Gods but he didn’t lol I like both brothers so who cares lol ain’t no great everybody The 1
There is a reason why MJ got the loudest applause and cheers, and got to stand in the center of all the greats! Because "MJ IS THE GOAT!"
MJ put the NBA on another level world wide! How is that not the toughest obstacle???
EXACTLY!!!💯
And what is the reason why those same fans booed Steph... Then we're cheering him by the end of the AS Game.. you can't define GOAT by cheers from a schizophrenic crowd
Jordan was the face of the league that wasn’t no obstacle his only obstacle to as getting passed the Pistons
Finally an actual breakdown of both without cutting each throats off.
The east was historically weak during lebrons peak. Throw the 2017 cavs into the east today, they would still be a top 2 seed and probably get to the finals, but there's no way they'd just sweep everyone the way they did back then. Big raps fan, but those derozan era teams would maybe be the 4th seed today
And the knicks? And Cavs in the 90s would be playoff teams. Pistons Center was 6’9 240 Bron A 6’9 240 pg.
How do we know LeBron didn't just make it look easy because of how good he led his teams during that time?
MJ made the playoffs with 30 wins foh
@@RayanMADAO he faced like 3 losing teams in the playoffs and another 2 that barely had a .500 record in the finals
@@thehumannugakareemsupreme9484 Lebron only beat 1 team over.500 in the 2007 NBA playoffs and got swept in the Finals
And that was the Pistons with no Ben Wallace
They cut it off at the end while Stephen was making a another good point nobody talks about much. Lebron was playing in the East, the easiest conference by a long shot most of his career. That’s why I get upset when people try to act like Lebron is undoubtedly the best. And they did Kobe wrong throwing him at #10. Kobe’s always gon be in the Top 5. Stayed his whole career on one team and didn’t make super teams and won 5 chips.
6 teams added during Jordan’s prime…. Any thoughts on league dilution?
That's bulll..from 2000-10. The Lakers went times...San Antonio 2 and Dallas 1. Who really had the easier conference? Kobe or Lebron. For East Detroit 2,Boston 2,New Jersey 2,Philadelphia1,Cleveland 1,Orlando 1 and Indiana 1...
That LeBron playing in the east for majority of his career narrative is stupid. Dude goes to the West and wins a chip after years of scrutiny. In addition the East is as strong as it's ever been in a long time, granted it took LeBron leaving to get to where that Conference currently is. Coincidence?
@@Baconeggncheese14 He has only made one finals appearance since going to the West though
@@kevinobida8473 The narrative for the longest time was that he couldn't win in the West. That's done.
They never Beat each other for a title Kobe never Beat Mike for one, LeBron never Beat Kobe for one. End of debate
Lebron never beat Kobe? Kobe had a great team and still lebron beat him. You may want to check their matchups tho.
You can shine yours without dimming the others...kudos, Red!
People still love to bring up the eastern conference being weaker when bron went on that run. At the time yes it was weaker than the east but that’s not hit fault. Those teams could have gotten better but they didn’t and there were still solid teams in there too. People forget Lebron went to the west and won a championship in year two. Love both of them but at this point they’re both so great it’s all preference.
Weaker than the west*
LeBron went to the West and won a championship because he was able to pick some great all-NBA talent. I wish other great basketball players had been able to do that back in the day.
No matter which angle you want to compare them, it's the 6/6 (100%) NBA Championships of Jordan withstood above versus 4/10 (40%) of Lebron. Accuracy and reliability in winning is always and will always be the key measurement of the GOAT debate.
That’s a very low iq standard of comparing players. VERY low iq.
What about 11-1 (the 1 lose with a player being injured.. Russell) and 10-0 in game 7? Bill Russell. He's your #1 if you go this route. If accuracy and reliability in winning is your route Jordan nor Lebron would fit because they both lost more than Russell
Nobody talks about who had the biggest impact on the sport. Who brought more attention and excitement and interest to the sport. It was definitely Jordan by far! Jack Nicholas is still considered by many as the golf GOAT because he had more championships than Tiger. But Tiger is definitely the greatest ever because he brought millions to the sport. He changed everything! Longer and harder courses, more room for fans, more money for everyone, Nike golf created, training for golf, etc.. He made the sport exciting for everyone. Back in Jordan's prime (and even not in his prime) everyone was watching whem Michael was playing. I had family and friends that knew nothing about basketball but watched every televised Jordan game and wanted to play basketball after watching him. To me, the Goat of any sport is the one who brought the most excitement and attention to their sport
You see how much bigger Bron is over Jordan? Bron is faster, stronger and can play all 5 positions. You mean to tell me Bron wouldn't be able to play 80/90s but Jordan dominates today without a 3 point shot? Jordan does well. Bron dominates all eras.
MJ had to battle the east first even before he reached the Finals , he had to battle the Pistons , Celtics , Knicks , Cavs , Shaq and Magic , Heat Mourning and Tim you could also that the 76ers of young Charles Barkley
Stephen A realized he had no bearing in his argument so he started talking about something completely different
Ofcourse MJ except for Pippen he didnt have very good players around him. And he robbed every single big player of trophies. Lets just say if MJ wasnt there other players from other teams would be much bigger legends. He stopped them all on his own! Lebron cant command Lakers but I can tell you for a fact if MJ would be in this team every player would be on another level like the Bulls
Mutually Concise debates are rare on first take, but this is undoubtedly one of them... Strongly logical takes at both ends
To me, it's MJ on any given day. The physicality of the game affects so much to players and their longevity in the league. Players back then in general didn't last long compared to the players nowadays. I see that's main reason LeBron can play at this high level at his age of 37. Of course, he's obviously a freak of nature and an unbelivable athlete we can only see one in a decade or longer. But still, he won't be at this level if he played in the 80's.
Wouldn’t Lebron be able to use his physicality more, the dude is Karl malones body with Jordan’s athleticism, he would of bullied the league
Will you all stop saying physicality ? Jordan was the most protected player ever !
Kareem played like 20 years idiot, mj could’ve played 18 years I’d he didn’t retire 3 times. Karl Malone, Stockton, Malone, and gp both played a lot of years. You realize the 80s was like the highways scoring era?
@@beanteam2217 of the longest 25 nba careers, 17 of them played the majority of their career post-2000. doesn’t really correlate with your statement.
@@OGSVN they still started on the 80s…
Lebron had 12 Hall of Famers to help him along the way. MJ had 4.
ToysofArkham list the 12 HOF for me plz!
More skilled players for Lebron to go against
Mj didn’t have to face a team with 4 hof all in their prime….Your comment is misleading,because out of 12 hall of famers ,4or 5 of them are washed passed their prime(carmelo,westbook,dwight howard,rondo,shaq….)the way you said it make it seems like lebron played with them all in their prime😂😂😂,it’s only bush,wade,kyrie,and Ad who really helped lebron
How many Hall Of Famers did each faced on a Finals series? MJ is the Goat, but let's face it. The teams he faced in the finals would not hold a candle to modern teams.
lebron faced 33 mj faced 9
People forget that at some point MJ quit basketball because of media scrutiny, he bailed just like that! LBJ on the other hand with all the attention has managed to go through his all whole career with absolute professionalism but hey, according to Stephen A that doesn't count.
MJ quits because his dad was murdered. MURDERED!!!!!
That’s actually not even why he left. It was the politics from the front office making idiotic decisions.
He left because his dad was killed
michael jordan stepped away from the NBA & tried playing baseball to honor his father who was murdered in 1993.
how the FVCK did your comment get so many upvotes?
Good chemistry between SAS and JJ. Good stuff
Both guys had it hard. But I'm gonna go with LeBron based on when he came into the league and who he went against. Also the league only having 23 teams in '84 compared the 30 teams in '03 make it easier to get to the playoffs, even with a losing record.
Jordan was out hurt in his second year and they still made the playoffs with a trash record because it wasn’t as many teams. I still think Jordan is the GOAT but it’s ok to state that fact. The Cavs had a winning record Lebrons second year and they ain’t make the playoffs because of a tie with the Nets.
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@@datsapaddlin yeah. But that only bolsters my point that it was harder. MJ also made the playoffs a second time, with a losing record. And the fact that he was hurt and they still made it shows that it wasn't as hard.
Well didn't Jordan have to go against Prime Bird and Isaiah just to get out of the East! Plus showtime Lakers with Prime Magic if you came out the East at that time....
@@jamalwilliams005 u only mentioning 1 year. Good point but u gonna have to mention other years to make what u are trying to say have more merit
I know SAS hates when JJ comes on First Take 😂
He's low key pretending he love him 😆
JJ is like Max Kellerman when it comes to logical debates, but SAS can’t talk to JJ like that bc he has NBA experience!!
But he ask JJ to come on the show. You guys really think he doesn’t have a say in who’s on first take? We know he loves KP and KP is also a lebron is the goat guy
Jordan has more losses in the PLAYOFFS than LeBron does in the FINALS, but old heads still think Jordan is better simply because he has two more rings and they grew up watching him instead of the king.... 💯👑🙏🏽
Y'all lebron fans sure is dumb 🤣..so winning the 1st round is more important than winning championships? Sorry kid but your dumb opinion can't change the fact that mj is the undisputed goat over lebron 🤣
@@toxicjutz1168 you're wrong :)) have a nice day though ! See you at the circus 🤡🎪😂👎
@@airecker lol that's it? That's your argument? How old are you kid? 🤣..you obviously don't know anything about basketball, go back to watching Disney child 🤣
@@toxicjutz1168 LeBron is goat of basketball, stay mad and stay sad keyboard warrior RUclips commenting hater! 😁💩💥
TBH, it feels like people keep saying Lebron is number 2 all time feels like they say it to appease the Lebron fanboys. In reality, Lebron is top 10 all time.
He’s a 4 time finals MVP, only person in history with more is MJ. The only players that have peaked higher than him is MJ and Shaq
When they bring up physicality why don’t they ever mention that it goes both ways? The bulls benefited from that too because they got to be physical against inferior talent & mike would definitely get more calls..
Which player on the Bull played like how the pistons played please tell us - Hard foul and playing dirty are two totally different things
@@stephenhiggins7759 dennis rodman??? 💀💀💀
@@westwilson1083 rodman was not on the bulls till 1996...
Honestly Jordan was getting calls that today nba players get. The only difference is Jordan was the only one being treated like that.
@@sambognosis1433 B.S. - Any time someone begins a statement with honestly you all no the deal -
If MJ ran around his whole career joining up with super teams, he would have 10 titles easily
When MJ retired the first time the bulls till won like 55 games and almost made it to the ECF. When Lebron leaves his teams they turn into bottom of the league lottery teams. Lebron is the reason many of those teams even stood a chance.
FACTS!!!!
@@fcbeninho0949 I’ll do you one better those raptor, hawk, pacer teams they like to say was weak east teams put lbj on those teams and they will call it a superteam.
Why do u think lebrons team wasn’t favored in majority of finals?
@@fcbeninho0949 it wasn’t the same team when Jordan retired. Their role players changed differently
Thank you SAS for keeping it real. There is Michael Jordan then everyone else. It’s that simple. It got clear very clear in the 75 introduction. Didn’t you hear the ovation for MJ? And he was introduce at last, which means the BEST…
Lol they did the forwards first, centers next and the guards at last. Thats why he came last for the guards, which means he was the best guard to ever play. Bron came last for forwards cause he is the best forward to every play. Simple as that
@@johnisaacraj8908 sure
The 2010s were absolutely much more talented than they were in the 90s
I've said this before, I'll say it again. The road for LeBron is WAY harder than it was for MJ for 15/19 years he's played, but it only is because he made it that way. LeBron joining Wade and Bosh in Miami opened Pandora's box and he's had to deal with stars that can't win championships on their teams going out of their way to team up to win that way. Gary Payton, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, Mark Price, Charles Barkley and Stockton and Malone were competitors, they wanted to show they were the best and win it on their own...which made life easier for MJ because they couldn't. If those guys started teaming up on him he would not have 6 rings boy lemme tell ya.
True, but he "made it that way" because Cleveland was the 2nd or 3 worst organization in all of the NBA, and he wasted his first 8 seasons there. I believe there is a recent documentary that has even more events that i could have imagined. They have improved in recent years thanks to the new GM, but Horrible is too nice of a word for the Cavs front office for the majority of its existence. If LBJ was drafted by LA, Boston Chicago, or even San Antonio, he could have had several rings by the time of the decision.
The real question is who had more help
Charles Barkley tried to make a super team in Houston, idiot😂
Just an hour ago, I thought about LeBron's entire career. I really have no problem that The Athletic and ESPN ranks him as the 2nd GOAT. That's how I pictured it nearly 20 years ago! The #2 GOAT. It came true.
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@@ZackAloisio911 Subbed
I disagree with JJ and Trick Paul..
LeBron's path was not as tough as MJ. Lebron kept taking the easy route, or easy path so to speak. Building teams and stacking the deck in his favor. And the crazy thing is, with all that deck stacking, he may have been to the finals 10xs, but he's also loss more finals than he won. MJ was not going to the finals to entertain a game 7, let alone lose. Lebron can't claim that. He's had more firepower than MJ and he still loss. Lebron dominated a conference, Jordan dominated The ENTIRE league. AND top it off. Do you even realize if you lined their careers side by side, LeBron had head start, coming straight from high school. While Jordan accomplished more in a shorter period of time, than LJ. It's easy for people to talk about inflated numbers, when one guy is still playing. The other guy retired 3xs and still is considered the goat.
Lebrons path was tougher than MJ you fanboys think mj was the best at everything. First of, lebron was hyped up since he was a teen liie around 16 he was being called the "GOAT" and the chosen one and there was a interview he had where the interviewer said that if lebron didn't become one of the GOATS he would be a bust. No player was hyped up as lebron and he lived up to that. Lebron also spent 7 years with the cavs when they were absolutely trash which is something you lebron haters love to purposely ignore he led them to a finals at 22 he faced tougher competition in the finals. 2016, 2017, 2018, warriors and even those spurs teams were better than any other team jordan faced in the finals. Jordan never had a game 7 because the bulls were a superteam they dominated every opponent they had in the finals so a game 7 wasn't needed but if he had to face those warrior teams it would definitely go to 7 games. Lebron dominated since 2010s. Jordan also dominated an era where there was an illegal defense rule which made it easier to score 1 on 1 something you lebron haters love to ignore as well.
JJ Redick is a class act. Never interrupted and seemed like he was truly listening to Stephen which is pretty uncommon
I think LBJ is number #2 all time, but IMO clearly went through the most "obstacles"/ "pressure" of anyone in nba history.
Exactly that “you’re opinion”
No matter asinine you sound
lol
@@masonr5677 I sound critical, simple and straightforward. I said 1 thing
@@masonr5677 I try to get north of 100+ likes on my comments or I jus don’t care😄