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Traditional Hunting Arrow Penetration Test! Head To Head Heavy vs Light!
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- Опубликовано: 13 авг 2023
- Here it is! The ultimate traditional hunting arrow all out penetration test using a lightweight 43# recurve and arrows ranging from 350 grains all the way up to 690 grains!
Jeff that's great!!! I did penetration tests in foam and hey bails and never had great penetration difference between 10 and 12 grains per pound but I never shot through wood board..I shot heavier bows like 57 lbs and a 660 gr arrow, now that penetrated deeply.. Thank you for this video!!!!
Fantastic test! Thanks for taking the time and money to make this happen.
Good test with expected outcome. With the field point on, we need to have same shaft diameter to compare fairly, though. The heaviest look like it have a thinner diameter than the others. Shaft friction is a factor. Even though its a interresting test, the most legit outcome was with the broadhead. Because the broadhead shatter the wood so the shaft dont get friction. Anyway the heavy one is still the winner, like it should be. Shoot straight
Awesome Jeff 👌, this is why I will stay with Dr Ashby minimum grain threshold of 650 its been proven for 30 years of his heavy bone threshold along with is 12 steps to arrow lethality and a single beveled broadhead in a 3 to 1 ratio, it's just dynamic, and Jeff you just showed us another pretty little test showing more reasons why. Us traditional archers need every advantage we can get and that heavy missile quites up the bow and narrows are gaps , and gives longevity too our bows. I really thank God for Dr Ashby's studys and proof and Jeff you put the icing on the 🎂 cake brother 🙏 amen 👌 🙏 🙌
@peterrabbit8467 amen brother, Dr Ashby is a wise man.
All traditional archers should check out Dr. Ashby's tests. I have a piece of deer vertebrae with a 3 to 1 ratio broadhead in it, complete penetration with the backside of the single-bevel head barely visible. Not my intended shot but is firm evidence to me of heavy FOC/Heavy total weight theory. Momentum carries further over distance with heavier arrows. Thanks for the video.
Excellent information Jef
This confirms everything I already believed! Awesome test, heavy arrows are the way to go. Can't argue with proof!
I'm binge watching your videos Jeff. Very good content !
Great video ! As usual , highly informative as was your video on trajectory using these same arrows ! Momentum kills ... penetration in a pinch where the target may turn just as the arrow is released can make all the difference , requiring lengthwise penetration perhaps double or more than what was anticipated with a broadside shot . I favor heavy for caliber bullets for the same reasons . Thanks for all you do , you're helping us all to be better , more effective and ethical hunters !
Eye opener, great video!!
Great stuff man l have been shooting 690 to 700 grain arrows out of a 45lb longbow for 35 years always served me well thanks for what you do very informative
Old school is still the best!
I have a 45lb traditional recurve, I’m shooting 28” 500spine arrows with 100gr tip. If I were to increase point weight what spine would I go to? I have a 400 some and two 350 soines that are 29” but i don’t have tips heavy enough for them. The arrows I shot now work great and are really fast
Thank you Jeff for the video. Great information.
When we talk about it, it's one thing but when we see it, it's a no Brainer. I'm enjoying your videos very much. Thanks for taking the time to share this.
Such a great video! Thank you for putting this together, super helpful
@@jasonmillwood2893 thanks so very much! I really learned a lot myself!
Thank you Jeff, it's fantastic.
Very interesting video Thanks Jeff!
Praise our Lord brother! Always receive something new from your videos. My first year going out to hunt with a bow. Keep doing what you are doing
Yes sir Lord willing I will and I really appreciate it brother!
Great video. Would love to see more testing with a traditional longbow instead of a recurve. Many of us use those to hunt :)
Thanks for a very informative video!!
Jeff, your knocking it out of the park with your content. Especially some of the latest topics. Thank you my Friend!
Thanks brother love this stuff!
Great video man. You do great work. Thanks a lot.
My pleasure thank you!
Great video Jeff !
Thanks glad you enjoyed it 👍🏻
Awesome video, as a newbie that has really helped me understand .
Thank you so much.
I really enjoyed watching man that was GOOD. knowing the arrow is first thing in my book
Thank you for your time, the video, and the details!
I'm shooting full-length Easton X7 Eclipse 2213's weighing 760gr with a 300gr tip on a 41# draw
MountainCarpenterEagleThe Easton X7 Eclipse 2213's are a .464 spine @ 9.9 GPI and a .344 outer diameter
Thanks heaps I'm a true believer in the heavier arrow for penetration I've seen it for real thanks Jeff really appreciate your videos
Yes sir! Thank you so much!
Thank you Jeff I knew the plywood wood was gonna be a good material to test arrow penetration! the military uses 1/2 inch ply wood to test for lethality of shrapnel or bullets at different ranges, whatever can go through plywood can go through a persons body cavity. High F.O.C. and brass or steel inserts are the only way to go. i will never use aluminium inserts again after using brass inserts.
Great test and video
Thanks!
Jeff these need to be Archived great real world information for Archers! TY
Excellent Video!
Thanks!
Congrats on a nice buck. Im making the transition from compond to recurve. Ive been watching all your videos! Ill be building a 500+ grain arrow. thank you
Awesome! You’re gonna have a lot of fun this summer!
I happen to have what I know the military used to use for a ‘if it goes through this it will kill’ testing. 3/4” pine board. Not plywood, a board. Gets fun trying to get through that.
Very good test,and bless you to brother
Excellent info. Thanks and God bless!
This video was spot on , what some of us needed to see . Super informative. Thanks so much for the hard work , and thought you put into all this. Hope I stay off those shoulder blades...
God bless
Very interesting test. Thanks for sharing this. I don’t bow hunt but pretty sure those heavy arrows will get through a deers ribs and into the engine room.
Great video I been waiting on a test like this for trad bows
Man it’ll make you rethink your setup for sure lol! I’ve had a really successful season this year with a 530 grain arrow and about half of that weight being point weight, lighter shafts and heavier points have done the same thing as a 650 grain arrow but more speed which really does help with ducking deer😁
Your the man Jeff!
You're an inspiration
You are the best great stuff 👍
Thanks brother!
Thanks again… god bless you 🙏🏼
Great test on plywood showing what Primitive Man discovered a long time ago, Heavy stone tips on Atlatls, spears and arrows were King, modern man forgot this in his quest for speed over weight.
You got that right lol! I’m a believer 100%!
Once again very informative. Wow heavier is better!
Hola . Muchas gracias por compartir tus conosimientos. Saludos desde Chile .
I'm a fan of the lightest gpi stiffest arrow I can get to tune with 225-300grn up front. For target I try to stay with same concept but 150-75 if they tune that way. Great video's Jeff
I tested a lot of different combinations out of my 52# Browning and I ended up with similar conclusions. Stiffest arrow that impacts dead straight at 7 yards. Today I’m heading to the range to try out the next heavier spine to what I’m shooting now. If you’re even borderline weak, then add the extra length up front of a broadhead you’re going to have some noodles on your hands.
Another point to make is that a heavier arrow set up quiets the bow down some. In addition, "arrow refunds" are more common with pass thrus.
Great work Jeff (despite your dog's opinion on the subject).
Hi Jeff, great video! Have you tested speed of those arrows from that bow?
Thanks, brother ✌
Best of advice with plenty wisdom!
God Bless [Peace in Jerusalem]
Great video, the dog cracked me up
🤣👍🏻
Thanks for the knowledge brother
Man this testing was really fun and interesting for me lol I definitely was surprised at some of the results!
Hi Jeff. I’m a new subscriber. I was just wondering. Have you any experience with those spinning inserts that ethics archery sells ? Thanks really like the information your putting out
Thank you for this test, now all my Big Jim's Dark Timber arrows have extra weight added to my Great White's. K
Absolutely amazing, Jeff! Love your videos 🏹
Definitely a cool test and it’s really opened my eyes to a lot of things, my dad is regrouping his setup now, he was shooting a 390 grain arrow out of his 40# bow and after this he’s not confident in them at all.
@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998
Chek also please correct data's with really legit comparing, for example ruclips.net/video/jEv4PI55MLI/видео.html.
In this test heavy arrows with penetrators. Right after penetration pointer leaves after itself bigger hole than shaft diameter, so arrow easily go through.
You and your dad would achieve same effect with 390 grain arrow and penetrator with 40# bow.
Do some real tests. And take attention to details that is really matters in it.
In my opinion any of these arrows is more than adequate but, the heavy wins. More important the dog stole the show😂
Great video - and you proved or demonstrated what physics tell us - the higher mass in motion - momentum - is more difficult to stop. One has to question other videos that demonstrate the opposite.
Yes sir! Thank you so much for watching!
I love your dog! 😆 😂 😆
Lol I’ve had him 11 years! He’s pretty cool 👍🏻
The arrows used by English archers during the Hundred Years War were all in the ranges of 1200 to 1600 grains. These punched straight through plate armor like butter. The modern tests done by reenactors were all using much lighter arrows, that is why they wouldn't go through plate. A heavy arrow absorbs all of the energy delivered by the bow and the shooter will feel the apparent difference as hand shock and vibration would completely be eliminated when firing a heavier arrow. Effective results from a bow is very similar to loading shotgun slugs. With low velocity, you NEED a heavy projectile to absorb and make use of all of the available energy. Heavy 12 gauge slugs and black powder Minie balls only have a range of about 100 yards or so of straight flight before they start dropping steeply, but within that 100 yards, nothing getting hit with them is shrugging them off. Same with arrows. The ones I use in my 55 and 60lb recurves are all weighted to around 800 grains. COMPLETE pass throughs on hogs and elk at 30 yards.
No, they didn't but if your willing to learn, watch the amazing ARROWS vs ARMOUR 2 series of Tod of @tods_workshop together with 4 experts.
A real treat!
Jeff can you do a FPS on the difference arrow weight great videos
Great video Jeff. I think it would be interesting to conduct this test done with the same arrow but with different poundage bows.
I have thought about that but the arrows have to be at least decently tuned to the bow and flying fairy straight to have their full potential as in hitting the target straight and it can be done just takes a lot of different setups but I’m working on a lighter poundage bow now to see how much it needs to be effective 👍🏻
Looking forward to it Jeff. Thanks for all you do for our sport!@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998
Hi Jeff, great stuff! Are you able to perform the same test with a heavier bow? I am really interested on how these arrows are going to behave with 50-55 lb bow.
I watched your videos a few years ago and I'm glad you're still making great content!! Also, I hope your family is well and your health concerns are a thing of the past!
It has been awhile since I've shot my bow and I need to get good arrows. Stupid question, when you say "10 grains per pound, heavy F.O.C." is the 10 grains per pound bare arrow weight, or Total Arrow Weight? Shooting a 45lb bow, 29.5" draw (so about 48-49 lbs total draw weight?), should I be looking at buying a 450-500 grain arrow and adding the 300 grain arrow tip to that weight, making it an 800ish grain arrow? Maybe just link a video to this question?
Thank you again for making your videos!
You want to build a total arrow weight of about 500 grains for great all around, I personally love Gold Tip Warriors and Hunter XT’s but the Black Eagle’s are super good as well, I’ve found that a lighter shaft like 7-8 gpi with 250-300 grains of point weight including inserts shoot the absolute best and penetration is crazy! And you’re borderline of needing a 400 spine especially if they’re going to be cut 30.5” or longer using that kind of point weight but yes sir our health is much better after getting away from the bow building lol it’s a nasty job for sure but I’ll always miss it!
Thank you for the advice! And glad to hear ya'll are doing well.@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998
Jeff who maikes that big black foam target in the background? Thanks for sharing
What’s the best way to message you with setup questions?
Fantastic test . Now how to make a 600 grain arrow for light poundage🤫
There was some thunder on that second one!
Interesting demonstration. Looks like you have to go REALLY heavy to make a real difference. Seems like in the first test the 460 gr arrow actually penetrated deeper than the 560.
It actually did once but then all other shots the 560 was noticeably better but I honestly think 600+ is where it really shows tremendously different results.
My next test will be to determine an effective arrow weight for a 37# longbow since so many guys are under 40# I’m very curious about that!
That would be very interesting. 40lbs is all I care to pull any more. Love the channel BTW.@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998
Shaft friction against the wood is a major factor on tests like this. If the wood shatter just a little different from shot to shot, the shaft friction is also different from shot to shot. And it causes false readings.
Great content Jeff!!! Help an old man out please. I need arrows for my dad’s old Bear Kodiak. 50 lbs at my 29” draw length. Can you please recommend an arrow set up? What I shoot now is OK but I know I can do better. Thanks. Happy holidays 🦌🦌🦌
I have found that my handmade arrows using hardwood dowls are heavier and have less archer's paradox and have much greater penetration!
Hey Mr Jeff I am shooting 559 grain arrows out of my 45 at 28 thunderchild I put it right about 30 inches do feel like that is enough to kill a deer deer. My broadheads are Simmons tree sharks and the old great white love to hear your feedback thanks
Jeff I am curious how to build a 680-690 arrow?My hunting arrow set up weighs 590 grains. This includes gold tip traditional 500 8.6 gpi 29.5 inchs, 100 grain brass insert, Simmons swamp shark advertised at 175, but actual around 185-88 grains,and lighted nock around 20-25 grains. That is around 285 grains FOC. I am still 100 grains short of 680-690 weight arrow. Where is the extra 100 grains coming from? The big Jim dark timber arrow is the same gpi as the gold tip and Easton traditional axis. I have seen arrow tube weights in the 3 rivers catalog. I was just thinking increasing my FOC a 100 grains would weaken my arrow spine?I shoot a hill style long bow. Northern Mist Sheldon. Build by Steve Turay in Ramer Al. The bow is 56lbs at 28 “. My draw is 27” so I am shooting about 53-54lb.
What type of recurve arrow rest do you use???
Does it affect tuning the recurve?? Is feather clearance a concern??Thanks
Thanks for taking the time!What broadheads do you recommend?
My all around favorite is the VPA three blade in the 3-1 design they’re slightly longer for penetration but fly amazing with a lot of cut!
Hey jeff. Whats your opinion of that foam target you got behind the plywood. Name? Recommended?
Hello Jeff I have the Bear Kodiak Mag as well and it is a 45x pulling close to 50 lbs at 27 1/2 draw. I'm trying to break the 500 grain threshold I currently have gold tip traditional hunters that are 3555 / 500. Carbon to carbon 28 1/2 in long can they handle 200 grains up front? Or do I need to go to a 400.
I’m shooting a 560 gn arrow at a draw of 45# from 20 yards at 3/4in plywood, and my field point just barely sticks out the other side. I’m left scratching my head.
My arrows shoot like lazers at 515. I think heavier would be better but I’m not switching setups this close to season
I don’t blame you and you’re probably fine with that setup plus you can always regroup during season if needed 👍🏻
basically 15gr per pound OR BETTER
as i understand it
looks like im not using carbon fibre any time soon unless its indoors with blunts
Hey jeff, Are you coming to ETAR this year?
I wish I would have seen this video before I purchased my arrows and heads…. Tell me what you think about my setup and tell me if it’s too light for an errant shoulder shot… I bought gold tip warriors 30 inch 500 7.2 GPI
175 Grain Treshark
50 grain inserts
Also shooting luminoks
I’m only hunting whitetails but I want something to penetrate the shoulder… you think that setup will do it?
@@Hogmister11 man I think you’ve got plenty for deer no problem, I’ve gotten pass through shots behind the shoulders with way less in the past, I believe the heavy arrows just hit way harder and will help big time if it’s down through the back or more forward but you’re right in the middle 💪🏻
@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 I appreciate it….I may go to a 100 grain insert to beef it up a little and help with FOC
Hey Jeff just curious what is your longest yard shot on live deer that you are confident shooting recurve?
Great question and I’ve been asked this a few times, my personal comfortable range is 30 yards, my longest kill shot with a recurve was 32 yards but it was a wide open shot broadside on a big buck in the rut and I was shooting a 50# bow and running 300 grains of point weight with only a total arrow weight of 480 grains so it was pretty fast for a recurve and hit hard but shooting past 20 is definitely unpredictable and risky on live animals lol I’d much rather them be 15 yards 😁
Now you see why cave men used longer arrows
What draw weight is the bow ? 50 lb ? 70 lb ----recurve or compound ?
Will same poundage with shorter draw length make any difference? Just a thought!!!
I think total arrow weight with relatively the same speed will have the same effect 👍🏻
@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 good content Jeff …. Thanks
A good video which I have always believed. Can you do a test comparing two and three blade with high weight and determine a comparison of penetration. Stay with our true God. Amen. Rick
You mentioned big heads flying better with standard shafts than narrower shafts. Is that referring to broadhead weight being big or a wide cut for a big head?
Wide cut heads definitely seem to tune much easier for me with standard 5/16 arrows but lately I’ve had several.204 small diameter like gold tip classic xt’s flying them great, it’s just that they have to be tuned pretty much perfectly to fly them good 👍🏻
@@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998 ok thanks for the reply.
So usually a heavy head like 300gn plus is fine On narrower shafts if it is say 1 1/8" wide or so?
When you're talking about heavy arrows versus lightweight arrows what is the kinetic energy of each
Arrow shot at 50 lb..
I’m not sure exactly what the kinetic energy of each arrow was and I’d have to chronograph each as well as weight to figure it out but I’m sure it’s quite different between these weights, however I believe a light shaft with 20% FOC or more will have just as much as a heavier arrow with less point weight out of the same bow👍🏻
Is it ok to leave a traditional bow strung?
Yes absolutely just don’t let it get hot but indoors and if you’re shooting it fairly regularly no need to unstring a laminated bow 👍🏻
I'm new to your show and I love your faith in Jesus
Amen! Jesus Shall Return!! He left all glory to died for our sins… so that we can be made right with God! Riches to Rags. ✝️
So much great info. I am kinda new to the recurve. I like the idea of the 690 grain. I shoot a 45# at 28”. What arrow, insert, and tip do you recommend to get this? I presume you’re shooting a full length shaft?
The 560 grain arrow did not penetrate as much as the 430 grain. Most likely, the wood is not homogenous.
As the formula for kinetic energy is k = 1/2mv², it means the bow did not lose much speed between a 430 grain arrow and the heaviest arrow. If one keeps making the arrows heavier and heavier, at some point the penetration will drop.
Getting the speed of each arrow will be interesting.
Was the broadheads sharp
Not really sharp at all.
That test shows the difference between target shooting and bowhunting.
Absolutely! It really made me rethink my hunting arrows and confirmed what I’ve always believed 👍🏻
I presume you still wouldn't intentionally do a high shoulder just looking for margin for the what ifs.
Brother you have the nicest yard, were do you live?
@@gregoryrunningelk865 thanks brother! Good old North Alabama 😁
Each bowhunter has their own opinion of what "heavy" means to them pertaining to arrow weight. One has to decide, for their particular shooting set up, (bow poundage, arrow length, broadhead integrity and design, amount of FOC, etc..) for what is heavy "enough" for the particular animal they are hunting. If you look at Dr. Ed's data for big game penetration, the top five arrow lethality factors don't address arrow weight at all, but as you go down the list of 12 factors, it IS a factor. Interestingly, many states have removed their minimum bow weight requirements, at least for deer type game, but few address a minimum arrow weight requirement. Comparing arrow velocity, I shot a 444 grain arrow from a light compound at 175 fps. I shot a 580 grain arrow, (136 grains heavier) and the arrow velocity was only 22 per second slower at 153 fps, but the arrow momentum factor WENT THRU THE ROOF. .11 slugs for the light arrow, and .39 slugs for the heavy arrow. In other words, over triple the momentum capability.
Absolutely!
Everyone should calculate their momentum with different weights and then decide on the tradeoffs. BIG gains in momentum with small loss in trajectory and speed for short trad shots are possible.
I understand this is for hunting, but do you use the same setup pre season? Ie, 3d shooting
@@milomilkman no sir you can go with a lighter setup for 3D
Have not shot 3d in many years. I remember guys going light and FAT on the shafts so if they hit close enough, the thicker shaft would squeeze them in to a higher ring.@@milomilkman
What length are your arrows?
28” to 28.5”
Thank you! @@instinctiveaddictionarcher8998
I shoot a 55# @ 28 longbow probably 53 on the fingers 700gr+ arrow with a 30% UEFOC, you can't argue with a freight train
Hunt rabbit with 350?
Oh yeah
So just use deer scapula like everyone else.
The real test would be to shoot a road killed deer.
And then you would actually know.
To me 43# I can't believe it,......how fast is the arrow traveling? at each weight.
Lol I’ll save a couple this fall just for testing 😁👍🏻
This is the reason why my Hun ancestors the Avar relatives and the Mongols shot heavy arrows by large broadheads. We don't want to shoot far only but deliver a serious punch. Turkish, Korean an other extreme high speed bows are fun sor sport but for serious business I always choose the Hungarian. For same distance you need 20# more draw weight by these big bows. But that's a good trade. I mean we target shoot out to 273 yards. Among hornbows a 60# Turkish can reach that by Arabic arrows. You need an 80# Hungarian warbow to reach that far. For target shooting sport it's a no brainer choice but for combat and hunting the facts talk for themselves.
"MOMENTUM "
Momentum reigns when it comes to penetration.