How much whole wheat can you add to your sourdough bread? | Foodgeek
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Experiment Time! Today I am going to experiment with how much whole wheat flour flour you can put in your sourdough bread. I'll be baking a bread with 20% whole whest, one with 40% whole wheat and one with 60% whole wheat. How much is too much?
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Are you kidding?! Of course, would love to see you making a 100% wholewheat loaf. I bet you can pull it off. You're like Superman for sourdough bread.
Sounds like a challenge.........
I've made it. It's white bread with a slightly different lift and aftertaste than with dry yeast. It's great.
Yes!
Of course he can pull it off.. Whats the big deal? In Germany we bake lots of 100% Wholewheat breads with sourdough...
I've made 100% wholemeal sourdough for a while -- mostly wholewheat, but with about 30% of wholemeal rye and spelt (ie, 15% of each in the total) mixed in, autolysed, and then slow fermented/raised. Hydration is about 80%. Takes about 24 hours from start to finish. Sure, it's quite dense and heavy, but the flavour is great.
Yes please - let's see 100% whole wheat
It'll be amazing 🙏
It has a stronger unique taste and smell (at least mine), I liked better, my brother didn't. I think it's worth a try.
Hi Sune, Just a note concerning this experiment: The percentage of whole wheat flower changes the hydration of the dough: As seen in the video the 40 and 60% doughs seem somewhat less wet and less compliant. Most whole wheat flours require 10-16% more water compared to white flour to obtain the same gluten hydration (mostly due to gums in wholewheat absorbing quite some water!). Therefore, by keeping the hydration level constant between the different whole wheat concentration in this experiment, you are actually decreasing the gluten hydration too. The lower gluten hydration will, in theory, make the dough easier to handle. Still, really impressive results I must say! Your experiment underlines the importance of working more on the gluten development with increasing whole wheat flour content. Also the shorter proofing time in the whole wheat bread is a great learning point!
So if I make a high whole wheat %, I should make a stickier dough?
Nathan Bulk “Sticky” is “tricky”. The stickiness of a dough depends on many factors, among these flour gum content, gluten development, and hydration level. If you aim for a whole wheat dough with a consistency similar to white flour dough with a given hydration level, you will need to add more water. I find that per gram of whole wheat, you need ≈14 percentage points more water than when using only white flour. So making a 600g dough with 300g white + 300g whole wheat flour with 80% “white” hydration, then the water needed would be (300*0,8)+(300+0,94) = 522 mL water
Thanks for sharing. I just saw another video that confirms your suggestion, in which Elly uses 90% hydration for home-ground whole wheat. Her dough looked much more like Sune's usual dough texture when he's using 20% whole wheat. ruclips.net/video/0Z3ae1vPNQ0/видео.html
Interesting comment, this explains why I am having trouble with the recipe hydration for 50% whole wheat, when I can only get my hands on White at the moment!
@@wolleemil Thank you so much, Olaus for sharing this. I will definitely try this.
Thank you, Sune. A blast to watch your videos, as always. It’d be great to make a 100% freshly milled whole wheat loaf
Great video, Sune, and would love to see a 100% whole wheat one.
Been a subscriber for several years now, have learned a lot, can’t believe you don’t have a Million subs! 🙈 Cheers from the States! 🇺🇸 🇩🇰
Thanks, but I think that not as many people are into baking now that they were during lockdown :)
Please do a 100%! Also, you said “this is getting predictable” but I love watching the whole process. I feel like I learn something new every time.
I watch Sune make bread the way I watch Bob Ross paint. There's no hurry. Just relax and enjoy the process.
First time commenter here: I appreciate your scientifically approach to sourdough bread making. I command your logical and systematic approach having myself engineering/scientific background. I hope you had good birthday and I like very much you are proud Danish Citizen by displaying your flag in your post the other day. Respect.
I appreciate how often you bust bread making myths, Sune. It helps reduce the intimidating barrage of exact formulae and meticulous procedures so many people push as what you MUST do to make good bread.
I love the frequency you've been posting recently, especially in the current state of the world. I used to be a pastry chef in a Michelin star restaurant (just 1 star) and I used to go home and do very similar things with my recipes, however I love how you deconstruct Sourdough so much It's fantastic.
Keep it up!
I'm not much of a merch person but have you thought of a patreon account?
Bobby Lopez JUST?!
Thank you Bobby. I have set up a Patreon account and will probably be launching it soon. I have a hard time keeping up with all the questions, so I thought I may move them over there 😊
Course man. Do it. But I’d also like to see the experiment repeated with rye flour
I bake with rye a lot. Shaping the loaf is more like molding clay. Freeform is possible, but you've got to control hydration if you don't want it to flatten too much.
Again, wonderful video, very helpful indeed. We've been doing a pretty standard 33% whole grain and about 74% hydration, very happy with the results. Currently using part Khorosan flour which has a lovely golden hue and such an amazing flavor! This week we added one of our favorite add-ins, toasted, soaked flaxseeds. Yum. I find I take smaller bites of my slice to make it last longer! LOL
Fantastic addition to all the Sourdough RUclipsrs! New favorite for sure. Just made your starter and 20/80 loaf with amazing results. Best starter I have ever made and it was the easiest and fastest from start to bake. Love of the comparisons and experiments! Congrats!
Yes!!! I’d like to see the 100% whole wheat loaf 😃
Yes please...........100 % experiment would be great. My normal is 50%. Thank you for all your experiments. I really enjoy them.
Love your eyes when you look at your followers. Kinda like how a murderer looks at you before the deed.
I wonder - Trying to read the script on a screen above the camera? He does it well :)
Hey sune.
What about comparing making sourdough, with different type of starter.
Rye starter, whole wheat starter, AP starter, and bread flour starter.
Cheers
durgimstingetium
I was just about to write the exact same thing🙂 that would be really interesting
Yep would be very good
That would be interesting. The past months I started learning how to make sourdough breads but I'm struggling with preventing it from going flat after final shaping the bread.
The mistake I'm probably making is try a to complex bread; high hydration (75% / 78%) and using a full whole wheat starter.
I'm thinking about changing the starter since going to a lower hydration level (70%) still has this problem (although less).
I find that rye and whole wheat only starters ferment way faster, meanwhile ap and bread flour only takes a lot more to ferment. (I'm just assuming 00 flour is ap flour and 0 flour is bread flour)
thumbs up
Yes! 100% can work well. I give mine an overnight soak with all the flour, 85% water, 2.5% salt and 20% olive oil. In the morning, I add my well-fed starter (20%), dimpling it in like I'm poking foccacia. It needs a bit longer of a bulk ferment anyway (4 hrs.), then into the fridge the rest of the day and baked after dinner. Cut into it the following morning for excellent nutrition base to my breakfast!
I use 100% freshly milled flour in all my breads. I use combinations of White Spring Wheat, Spelt, Einkorn, Rye and Hard Red Wheat to different degrees. I do a light sift of 50% using a standard kitchen strainer. It comes out to about 50grams of bran sifted out for 550 grams of flour for my standard loaf size. My technique is different and I'm not aiming for the large, open crumb structure. But, I get great oven spring and I can't imagine wanting bread with standard bagged flour ever again! I'd love to see your experiment with 100% fresh milled! Thanks for the great channel. You're a very good teacher!
Yes please I'd love to see the 100% wholewheat experiment! Thank you for the video!
Breadyness should totally be a word. And are you kidding? I absolutely want to see that experiment.
YES!!!! Please!!!! Never manage to make a good loaf of 100% whole wheat bread, so please help us out. Your videos are soooooo didactic and precise.
i do "100%" whole wheat all the time. the catch is that instead of 100% whole wheat, i use 94% whole wheat and 6% pure gluten. this ensures BANGING gluten and dough development.
Thank you for this tip! I have gluten I can add!
Also.. how "whole" is your whole wheat? In most cases it doesn't need a ton of germ to be considered 'whole wheat' If you ever get a chance to try actual 100% whole wheat you may find it different than those available in most stores.
Would love to see Sune do an episode adding vital wheat gluten as additive.
What is the protein content of your pure gluten? They vary quite a lot depending on manufacturer/brand so curious what protein content your were aiming for in the end formula.
Could you link me to the gluten you buy? I can't seem to find any where I'm at
Sune, Thanks for your channel! I think it'd be a good idea to explain that there are 2 approaches to starters in not-a-bakery situations. (1) People who make sourdough as a special part of a special meal once in a while are most likely to use whatever flour they're going to use for the bread to create a new starter 3-4 days before starting to make the bread; very little time is needed to get the starter going and, as often as not, you can simply use it up when you bake. Keeping the starter and curating it is possible but may not interest you. (2) People (like me -- maybe Sune in real life) who make sourdough at least once a week created our starter years ago and have just kept it going. This means that, by and large, we're using THE SAME YEAST/BACTERIA POPULATION over and over. Each batch of bread will have a slightly different population but your curated starter will give about the same flavours etc over and over and you can play around with techniques, tricks and experiments.
Yes!! Please do 100%!! I have a beautiful 100% whole wheat sourdough starter and would love to find the perfect recipe for it
I'm quite new to sourdough but have made yeasted, home bakedbread for years. I generally used to make tin loaves from either 100% wholemeal (in uk = same thing as wholewheat)or white, bread flours and won the Northumberland County Show several times with them. I only had a problem with wholemeal as a new starter when I didn’t fully understand that different flours and even from different sources need different hydration percentages. Since then and for many years I’ve never had a problem.
One more point, protein percentage isn’t always a good indicator of gluten content with elasticity.
"EXPERIMENT TIME!" I started using this in my house. I love it. Thank you.
রডঢ
Edwin Cintron me too
@@7xARMY777 3 w them and they 444 the same 55
Name and address of the person who is working on the same and I will
Your videos are so soothing. The combination of your voice and the music is just so relaxing to watch. Thanks for these experiments.
I just made the 60% recipe as my first full process sourdough loaf and it turned out great! I added 2 TBS sunflower seeds, 1/4 cup rolled oats, and 10 grams everything but the bagel seasoning. I just polished off a slice with some salted sweet cream butter along with some spaghetti. SO GOOD! 🤤🤪 Good thing I got some blading in after work today, lol.
Sune, here is an idea for experiment, test the deepest scoring for bread.. what is going to happen if you score as deep as 1/2 or 3/4 the dough height? And also can you try scoring randomly, just go crazy with the cuts.. low cut, deep cut, long cut, short cut, etc. Thank you awesome video 😊
When you lower your voice at the end of the sentence we lose the last few words. Your English pronunciation is clean, the videos are some of my favorites, you are an asset to the RUclips community. (south Florida).
Yes it works. I mill it myself with the mockmill. 100%whole grain with 130gr sourdough and this sourdough is made with 100% wholgrain.
Clear voice, organized and simple. Nice work.
I don’t know how you do it. I’ve been baking bread for years (using my own ground flour and starter) and I’ve never made a loaf as beautiful as yours. You make it look so easy but you are beyond gifted as a baker.
That's a find. I'm a beginning baker and didn't even think about not using a 100% whole wheat ;) No tools, and a lot of trust gave me pretty good results and yes I did add extra water to mimic the feel and look of what I saw in your videos. You definitely inspired me.
I make a 100% whole wheat sourdough all the time. I love it as it tastes almost like beer it’s so sour by the time it is ready to bake. Only difference I’ve ever found is it takes a little longer to rise or you’ll get a dense crumb if you aren’t patient enough. You should do the experiment. Lots of people will benefit from it.
Nice! How about rye and/or spelt flour?
It's out now!
I would love to know how it would turn out with only whole grain...it is a healthier option..
You're in luck 😁
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Love your videos! Due to lockdown we can only get 11.5% protein flour. What are the chances of you finding some of this four and doing a sourdough video? Also I have some 11% protein wholemeal flour so am particularly keen to see your whole wheat trial. Please keep the geeky videos coming!
I like how you’ve expanded your review showing side-by-side and taste. Much more useful. Kudos to the commenters who requested it, and you for listening.
Yes please 100%, and emphasize the additional techniques such as more stretch and fold and how you know the dough is ready at various stages since I think that perception is why there was so little difference in this video.
I've baked with sourdough exclusively for about 10 years now. I recommend letting the sourdough ferment with as much of the whole wheat flour as you can before adding the rest of the flour(s). That will most likely get you better results.
I autolyze 100% whole wheat adding a little bit of Vital Wheat Gluten. No additional white flour.
Open crumb, great texture, and delish.
I would love to know the proportion you use.
Admittedly I have not watched the full video yet but based on the description the concept doesn't even make sense...just yesterday I made a free standing sourdough boule that is 100% whole wheat flour and using my 100% whole wheat starter. It turned out great and is delicious. I have seen plenty of whole wheat sourdough's.
Hey, but it is fun to compare and to know for us lesser people!
Oh and for the 100% hydration autolyse overnight.
Absolutely yes, I do want to see 100%! I made my first loaf of sourdough using my homemade starter. Having vn ordered spelt flour & receiving spelt grain, it was ground fresh just before adding to what is ccx called whole wheat pastry flour at a ratio of 30% spelt. It is delicious and has a lovely crumb & crust. After doing a couple more loaves to build my confidence the next goal is to increase the % of whole grains. I dont know why I feared sourdough for so long!
I'm new to this channel (fellow dane btw). But I can already tell that you're an unsung hero! I absolutely love your experiments.
I just started a 20% whole wheat one today. So far so good. Also adding herbs for the first time.
Hi Sune. I love your methodology and scientific approach to sourdough. Your channel is great!
Yes, let's have video on higher percentages of whole wheat. And for that matter, RYE!
Also, a bit of troubleshooting : my starter is not developing the big bubbles I see in your videos? Is it related to the room temperature? Or water temperature? Tap vs mineral water?
Already did a 100% Wholewheat bread in the past. Guess what? It's bread. It's delicious.
My sour dough starter is now 16 days old and I am so happy to have it. I’m in Melbourne Australia and our shelves have been bare of yeast for 6 weeks now. I use my bread maker to bake most of the time and add my discard to my bread, certainly makes the bread come out much tastier.
Experiments are always fun and educational. Let’s do it!👍
I did a 75% wheat loaf last night and the crumb wasn't as open as I'd like but still soft and airy. Yes, pleaseee do a 100% whole wheat loaf... would love to see how it turns out! Thank you for posting such wonderful videos!
I found that addind few gram of gluten flour and a tablespoon of honey really improve a whole wheat bread. Because a part of the flour is not actually carbs, but fiber and germ, adding honey compensate for the lack of carb. So the stater can feed longer and then, rise a lot more.
Yes, you can definitely do a 100% whole wheat. I like to add 2-3% of powdered gluten, which makes it feel like normal sourdough. (You can also produce a higher gluten dough yourself from normal flour, by washing out some of the starch from the dough).
With added Gluten you can also go crazy and make an open crumb 100% whole grain Rye bread, which is one of my favourites.
Exactly!!! I also make 100% rye adding vital wheat gluten.
Yes please!! 100% wholewheat. I'm having problems with mine just now, so it would be great.
GREAT! 👍I was really looking forward to this, since I have yet to succeed making whole wheat bread with levain, since it took me more than a year to perfect my 50%-75% whole wheat bread recipe using yeast.
Basically, my method is a two step autolyse and hydration process. Essentially, the whole wheat portion is hydrated overnight in a cool place with all the water, then its yeast portion is added and left to ferment the usual way and finally, the white flour portion with its yeast and salt is added last. Long, but very effective. Mind you, I've been using a commercial planetary mixer with a spiral dough hook for the past 6 months and it has had a tremendous impact on gluten development and has basically solved the previous problems I had with stickiness and dough cohesiveness. I basically never need to add flour or wet my hands when I work the dough and I've had great spring.
Indeed, the whole wheat bread is a complete taste difference - there is this amazing, sweet nutty flavour with hints of hay, that simply can't be found in any whole wheat bread using commercially available whole wheat flour, no matter how fresh it is. Now my challenge, of course, is to succeed doing with levain ;-)
Awesome video, handy techniques and a lovely accent!
I was waiting for this Sune. Thank you very much for this very informative experiment. Your videos are inspiring and very educating as well for home bread cookers, I am learning a lot. I definitely would like to see your experiment for %100 whilewheat bread.
Yes, please. Please do a 100% WW bread experiment. Keep up the great work!
Do it ! Got my stone mill out of storage . Definitely going for mostly whole grain, Tastes so great . (is kind of ironic that the texture of sour dough looks like regular bred in which the gluten was not developed well (not strong) . Less gluten, best for sourdough texture w increased nutrition from sourdough starter is a win win .)
I was surprised you didn't use 0% as a control and toss in a 100% loaf to see what that might be like. My guess was that the 60% wouldn't rise as high as the 20%. I was surprised, pleasantly so. Good work.
Would love to see higher percentages of whole wheat!
Also a video about adding the starter before autolyse and after!
I tried 100% whole wheat with 85% hydration. It worked out just fine.
Love your videos! Two quick questions:
- given all your experiments, would love an updated “ultimate” sourdough recipe?
- do you ever slap and fold? (Other videos swear by it)
Keep up the great work!
I want to see a 100% whole grain bread with close to 100% hydration. That is what I have been trying to make work recently.
Would love to see a sourdough using whole white spelt to see if it would work as well. Thank you for your curiosity and for posting your experiments!
I have made a loaf without bread flour, at about 80% wholemeal flour (not all wheat, though) and 20% fine semolina at 74% hydration. That turned out nice, with a decent oven spring and a nice crumb with some larger holes.
I love 100% whole wheat, but the problem it dries soon. But taste much better. I like to see your experient for 100% whole wheat. Thanks for everything.
Tak for denne - og andre - informative video(er)! Det er vist endelig lykkedes mig at komme frem til et godt resultat med en 30% fuldkornsdej (hvede + fuldkorn ølandshvede), vha. din beregner og dine tips i de andre videoer.
This is the experiment I've been waiting for! So excited to watch
Yes!! Please make a 100% whole wheat! These videos are so interesting! :)
Thanks form your great work -
and happy Birthday. 😉
Yes. Do it please.
Write also your recipe and how many hours u let it ferment in the fridge. Thanks. Keep up good videos
Subscribed to see that 100% whole wheat!! :D And of course I'm not going to unsubscribe because I really like the content!! In any case, I bake bread almost all the time with 100% whole wheat, even if it's denser than with white flour. I really like to dip my bread in sauces (for example, the white wine, lemon and garlic that I make for chicken) and the texture and consistency of a 100% whole wheat is perfect for that because it retains the shape much better once it's soaked in the sauce. Furthermore, it gives that great bread flavour punch to the sauce while the white bread taste disappears almost instantly. I'm editting the message to say that in my bread making journey I haven't baked a bread that is bad. They can be denser, different taste... but all of them are very good! You just have to love bread in all the shapes and tastes :D. I once experimented and made brocoli bread, that means steaming brocoli with a bit of chopped garlic until is veeeery soft, mash it and use it for the water (it contains 90%, so calculate the amout that you need for 80% hydratation). It was really awsome!... if you like brocoli XD
I usually use 100 Gm freshly ground coarse whole wheat and 400 Gm bread flour, King Arthur. Get a nice holey crumb and great flavor. Have also used combo of WW+AP+spelt. Trying rye next. Really enjoy your channel.
How coarse, can you describe or add a pic? Thanks.
I use a manual grinder. So I don’t tighten all the way. I don’t know if you can do that on an electric mill
@@olgareads9107 Thanks.
Thank you!
Nice How To's. Have you done one on how to bake the bread? I've searched and found nothing.
Sune, I want you to know how much I appreciate your experiments and the time it takes to make them. Stay Safe & Healthy my friend!
I’m new to this channel. I always said “ a guy that owns both a Tele and a Strat is a friend of mine” lol... great stuff. I’d love to see you explain various outcomes with various flours. Great video.
i just got a mockmill 100 and the first thing i did was make a 100% whole wheat loaf. definitely likes more hydration than ap flour, and doesn't have as much oven spring. it's the first time my bread has actually smelled "bready" :) I find 50/50 works very well ... 75% whole wheat starts to lose structure and oven spring. I'm going to try some of your tricks to get better oven spring.
Come on, do the 100 whole wheat bred! I’ve just subscribed to encourage you in doing it! Keep it up!
It's close to being done. The baking is finished, I just need to record other stuff and edit 😁
Yes please!! 100% wholewheat would be great! :D
Thank you so much for your video. I am a newbie to sourdough bread, I just started my starter 8 days ago. The only flour I could get was Indian wholewheat which is as fine as a white flour. My starter looks great but the bread was a complete fail, I know it was probably because it was 100% whole wheat. I'm going to try and get bread flour somewhere. Will my starter be ok as it is also 100% whole wheat? I really enjoyed watching how skilled you are and I subscribed 😊
Excellent video again Sune, you are a monster. Yes we do want to see 100% wholemeal.
Have you ever done an experiment to compare baking a boule right from the refrigerator versus allowing the boule to warm gently (3-4 hours) prior to baking?
I want to see that experiment. I mill wheat berries with a Wondermill, but since I've been making sourdough I've been using King Arthur AP and Bread Flours in the US. They are becoming very hard to come by, yet I have literally pounds and pounds of wheat berries. Thanks for your videos!
Great job! Could you please do some videos on German style Mischbrot and Bauernbrot, with and without spices and varying between 50/50 rye to wheat up to 100% rye? That would be great!
Nice video Sune, I thought the pacing was much better. It's nice to see the whole process but the way you had shorter cuts and sped some bits up made it more entertaining!
Love the idea if 100% whole wheat experiment. Would you try 100% whole wheat vs lower percentages, similar to this video? Or multiple 100% loaves at different hydration levels? Very curious to see!
Thanks for the informative videos, I enjoyed the experiments. Are there any bulk fermentation and proofing tests for freshman? And I always have problem when tilting the dough from bulk to the countertop, eww most of the gluten were torn up...aww
Hi, I would like to see you make a 100% wholewheat sourdough loaf very much. furthermore , I'm trying to use more spelt and rye in my recipes in addition to bread flour and whole wheat. It tastes very good in my opinion and I use very little now in each recipe. I was wondering if you can experiment with those flours as well. I'm trying to find the ideal percentage of those whole grain flours in a loaf so on the one hand the loaf will be as whole grain as possible and on the other hand maintain an open crumb. love your channel!
Do you think that maybe it makes a difference to grind the whole corn very very thin? When I buy whole grain you can really see brown pieces. In yours it wasn't noticeable.
BTW, tip for covering the baskets: I use shower hats (like the ones they give you in hotels). They have an elastic and they are just perfect. Sometimes you can find them in Tiger.
Yes I would like to see you do 100% whole wheat experiment. I just learning sourdough I’ve been a 100% whole grain baker for years.
Hi Sune!
Great video! Very interesting!
Have you try leaving the drought more than 8h in the fridge before baking it? What would be the maximum time a loaf can spend in the fridge?
Great video - awesome results. Would love to see the 100% WW - but to give it a true experimental feel, maybe do one with no added gluten, one with 3% gluten and one with 6% or more gluten to see what might happen. An unrelated question: I know you use a dutch oven - but do you add a spritz of water or not? Also: do you ever use diastatic malt? Does it help with flavour?
Totalmente de acuerdo en hacer las pruebas al 100, a mi encantaría hacer este tipo de pan frecuentemente.
Would be interesting to see a 90-100% whole wheat bread
It's in the pipeline :D
@@Foodgeek BTW did you post anywhere the info about flours you are using normally to bake your bread? Thank you.
@@olehkyriyenko9619 No, I talk about it in the video. They are both local Danish flours. Bread flour from Kornby Mølle. It's called Hvede no. 1 and Aurion Wheat Berries :)
Would love to see the 100% whole wheat experiment. The website of a local mill here near Austin, TX, mentions that their whole wheat is milled fine enough that gluten development is not hampered, and you can easily make 100% whole wheat breads with it. That suggests incorporating a variable into the 100% whole wheat experiment: coarseness of the whole wheat flour.
100% all the way! Thanks for your great videos!
That what we have all been waiting for. Many of us probably intrigued by the open crust artisan (mostly while flour breads) yet prefer the whole wheat.