What's the Difference Between an Omnibus and an Absolute?

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  • Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
  • I explain the difference between an omnibus and an absolute plus other formats.
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Комментарии • 249

  • @GemMintCollectibles
    @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +167

    I forgot to mention that the Absolute Editions ususally have a built-in ribbon for a bookmark

    • @malshepard749
      @malshepard749 5 лет назад

      Omnibi like cacti

    • @mrnukes797
      @mrnukes797 4 года назад +5

      Do you know what's the best way to get the main story of Neil Gaiman's The Sandman

    • @ibet4konkc375
      @ibet4konkc375 4 года назад

      What's your top 3 favorite foods

    • @chance1774
      @chance1774 3 года назад +1

      @Mr Nukes thank you for this question! that’s the exact series i wanted and i couldn’t figure out which was better.

    • @fabiolasousa4911
      @fabiolasousa4911 3 года назад

      OIER

  • @MrMulligan84
    @MrMulligan84 6 лет назад +174

    Gem, right on with this content. As someone who is just getting into comics in my 30's because of people such as yourself and other content creators out there. This is invaluable information, I had to learn a bit of this on my own but without you touching on it in other videos I never would have known.

    • @flawlessvic
      @flawlessvic 4 года назад +8

      I agree man. In 30s here, and there's so much content out there I don't even know where to start. This channel and users have already helped bigly.

  • @117rebel
    @117rebel 3 года назад +17

    When you pulled out the biggest one I was like “that’s no book! That’s a tome!!!”

  • @tylergile4469
    @tylergile4469 2 года назад +3

    Had to pause the video and comment this. I love the few times you ask us (the viewer) why they did something that way, and you pause, then reply with “ I don’t know” 😂. That pause and response is killing me. Thankyou for the content I started collecting a variety of history books, comics and manga and love watching your stuff!

  • @joshualong6900
    @joshualong6900 5 лет назад +70

    I didn’t even know about vibranium editions from Marvel DAMN THATS A HUGE BOOK!

  • @kaiwilliams141
    @kaiwilliams141 5 лет назад +25

    Some runs can cover multiple omnibuses. Geoff John's green lantern run is contained in three omnibuses for example.

  • @beardedshadow
    @beardedshadow 5 лет назад +36

    You clarified what I'm going to get, thanks, between Omnibus and Absolute. Omnibus all the day.

  • @darthstark55
    @darthstark55 3 года назад +1

    Just came across this clip. Super helpful Gem. Thanks for sorting all that out for this old man. Stay minty!

  • @allmyself666
    @allmyself666 5 лет назад +11

    As someone who just recently decided to look into comics, this was very helpful. Thank you.

  • @chucktownattack
    @chucktownattack 5 лет назад +2

    Absolute Sandman brought me to this channel and I never thought I'd get into traditional comics but after going through Sandman and then Alan Moore's stuff I'm hooked. Thank you for what you do AND saving me an ass of money.

  • @kazuhirala
    @kazuhirala 5 лет назад +14

    I usually go for TPB mainly because i dont shop for comics weekly, I usually go by monthly, so my best bet to stay up to date would be to go with Volume TPBs, prices aren't that bad also (sometimes).

  • @MrFish86
    @MrFish86 3 года назад +1

    I love the new setup. Looks like a nice cozy spot to talk to us from. Looking forward to seeing the different theme displays too. The street fighter mortal kombat display is a great start!

  • @romesrepublic
    @romesrepublic 5 лет назад +3

    I normally buy regular hardcovers, but I'm gonna start buying only omnibus's from now on. This video was very helpful.

  • @TheStowAway594
    @TheStowAway594 4 года назад +44

    It kind of irks me the way they do all these different editions, I feel like they are just taking advantage of newcomers and exploiting collectors. Anyway great video, I’m sure this will help a lot of people.

  • @bossberserker82
    @bossberserker82 6 лет назад +21

    That Adamantium collection 😍😍

  • @phillyfrenchy6053
    @phillyfrenchy6053 4 года назад +3

    I know I'm late, but man, as a French guy who moved in this country just a couple years ago, it is so helpful.

  • @raptorrancher
    @raptorrancher 6 лет назад +9

    My favorite new place for content. Appreciate the effort.

  • @MrSteviej893
    @MrSteviej893 5 лет назад +5

    Thanks for sharing this...I never knew the difference, and just assumed that all of them were called an omnibus and that they just collected all of the major stories of a particular character.

  • @DarkKnightNation
    @DarkKnightNation 4 года назад +1

    This is a GREAT resource for comic book readers.

  • @marcelahernandez369
    @marcelahernandez369 Год назад +1

    They should do a chronological one just for the heck of it. Would be dope to read the first 500 issues in a row of like Spiderman

  • @Tommy-iq3ec
    @Tommy-iq3ec 6 лет назад +3

    Cheers for the help dude! Love your videos, helps a lot with deciding which comics to get and which versions, keep it up man.

  • @sleepyreader666
    @sleepyreader666 6 лет назад +3

    Awesome video. I buy all these formats, but hadn't thought about how complex all the types are till watching you run through them.

  • @humanecentipede3264
    @humanecentipede3264 4 года назад +1

    Man I'm hooked the honesty is awesome. "A way for them to charge twice for an issue" haha good stuff

  • @jackstevenroberts
    @jackstevenroberts 6 лет назад +4

    Great video really helps out on deciding what format I want to collect comics in!

  • @themoofs6925
    @themoofs6925 3 года назад +1

    Hey dude, just found your channel and am a huge fan. I’ve been collecting comics since I was super young and never even realized the difference between these! I always like to collect the whole series in order. Great video!

  • @angelicah1212
    @angelicah1212 5 лет назад +8

    Thanks so much for these videos! I just started collecting and have mostly trade paperbacks but I'm looking to get Sandman and those omnibus volumes are looking mighty tempting. I saw they released all 10 paperbacks to be collected in one slip case..but I love how those omnibus volumes look...decisions decisions...

    • @angelicah1212
      @angelicah1212 5 лет назад +5

      Changed my mind..just ordered the first absolute volume of Sandman. I have no regrets

  • @akuzino1886
    @akuzino1886 3 года назад +1

    I just started collecting comics and this is very helpful. Thanks Gem.

  • @itszackempire
    @itszackempire 6 лет назад +9

    Thanks for having all the various styles all next to each other. I just recently started getting books that were not just TPB's and noticed how different the sizes were.
    I had NEVER noticed that Marvel doesn't do smaller HC books, only the larger formats!

    • @robvanspunkmeyer
      @robvanspunkmeyer 5 лет назад

      it is worth noting that Marvel did regular-size HCs constantly for about 15 years.

    • @stormblade2895
      @stormblade2895 5 лет назад

      robvanspunkmeyer That is correct but runs such as Marvel Masterworks and Premieres aren't always the best to get nowadays (but Panini have started a line in the UK called Marvel Premium which is cool I guess)

    • @robvanspunkmeyer
      @robvanspunkmeyer 5 лет назад

      @@stormblade2895 aye! And quite frankly I'm not sure if I understood the original comment correctly. Did he never notice that Marvel did hardcovers or that Marvel doesn't do them anymore?

    • @stormblade2895
      @stormblade2895 5 лет назад

      robvanspunkmeyer He said that he knows they do hardcovers that are bigger than the size of standard comic (like an OHC) but he says that they don't really do hardcovers the size of a standard comic.

    • @robvanspunkmeyer
      @robvanspunkmeyer 5 лет назад

      yes, indeed. all good!

  • @exiledforce107
    @exiledforce107 6 лет назад +7

    Thanks for the insight, I'm trying to get into big collections.

  • @Richardss2001
    @Richardss2001 Год назад +1

    Very helpful my friend, you explained it perfectly.

  • @bill0175
    @bill0175 6 лет назад +3

    Great video Gem, very informative, thank you for doing this.

  • @brentlevanen2252
    @brentlevanen2252 2 года назад +2

    Another awesome video Gem 💎 I’ve been reading comics for years in single issues and it’s very informative to watch this because I was wanting to get more into buying different formats when it comes to comics. I know what you mean about double dipping, the one series I have in both single issues and TPB is the whole Old Man Series. It truly is an addiction lol. My three favourite things that I read is the Old Man series, Ultimate Spider-Man and the monthly Iron Man and Daredevil series. P.S. after watching many videos the other be set I was happy to buy was the Daredevil by Frank Miller slip case, such an awesome set 😁

  • @RyanByrne311
    @RyanByrne311 6 лет назад +2

    This is super informative Steve! Thank you very much for this.

  • @bronzeagebroski9647
    @bronzeagebroski9647 3 года назад +1

    Great vid bro. I can see a newer collector being helped out immensely

  • @danielk3953
    @danielk3953 5 лет назад +1

    Just found this video and truly appreciate it! One kind of an in between size is the Image Oversized Hardcover Edition (e.g. Deadly Class and Black Science) that is quite a bit larger than their normal sized hardcovers like the Saga one you showed. I really like those a lot as well as the Dark Horse Library Editions.

  • @InfinityNexusReviews
    @InfinityNexusReviews 4 года назад +1

    I know this is old, but it's worth noting that Marvel have their "Premiere Editions" which is has tpb/comic sized pages, but it has boards and a DJ so it sit's slightly higher on a shelf. I only mention it in case anyone sees one for sale and expects to get an OHC delivered and then they end up with a tpb sized book.

  • @mrb1gstufbroy
    @mrb1gstufbroy 3 года назад +1

    Marvel also has their long ongoing hardcover "Masterworks" line. They're the same dimensions as a standard size comicbook.

  • @MyargonautsJason
    @MyargonautsJason 2 года назад +1

    nice video. Two other differences in the high-end Hard Covers is the paper quality and the behind-the-scenes materials included. A TPB or standard omnibus might be reprinted on newsprint or lower quality paper, while the expensive HCs should have really nice paper, and reproduced at an enlarged size to highlight the art as you said. And most of the Absolute editions have a wealth of supplemental materials, like scripts, pencil arts, sketches, alternative endings, etc.

  • @Y2JFan94
    @Y2JFan94 5 лет назад +2

    Thank you so much for this. Very informative especially for me who never knew much of omnibus and an absolutes

  • @robertparker3489
    @robertparker3489 5 лет назад +1

    Great video and very helpful, thank you for taking the time to upload this !

  • @MyVidMix
    @MyVidMix 5 лет назад +2

    Hell yeah! Awesome vid & channel. Explained perfectly. Subbed.

  • @brennicolas3093
    @brennicolas3093 3 года назад +2

    I have X-Men: The Adamantium Collection and it’s my favorite book in my collection. So many great stories from just about every era, that can for the most part be read on their own and don’t really tie into a big crossover event or anything. Some of the issues end on cliffhangers, but it was a great way to start my collection. Checked a lot of boxes off my list.

  • @thirtyacres7504
    @thirtyacres7504 3 года назад +1

    Uncanny X-Force is one of my favorites as well! This was very helpful. Thank you.

  • @kerrodlomath9905
    @kerrodlomath9905 6 лет назад

    az always dropping that knowledge helping the peeps out keep it up keep it fresh

  • @sen.skyburn7859
    @sen.skyburn7859 5 лет назад +1

    Great video as usual! I’m a total sucker for an absolute edition. Recently picked up the Jeph Loeb/Jim Lee classic, Absolute Hush.

  • @Endyson90
    @Endyson90 3 года назад +1

    Thank you so much for making this video and explaining the differences

  • @DropkickMurphysFan01
    @DropkickMurphysFan01 6 лет назад +8

    Great video man. What confuses me sometimes is when companies will release the same story but in several different versions. TMNT especially, those reprints from IDW seem all over the place.

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +4

      yea that happens a lot. A story comes out in single issues, then collected in tpb, then gets an OHC, then an omnibus.

  • @jeremyg371
    @jeremyg371 6 лет назад +1

    Could have really used this when I started back up a few months ago. It was a good video though and should really help people. thx Gem man. Have a great one.

  • @jammyc3336
    @jammyc3336 4 года назад +1

    Thanks you explained alot! I was just asking a friend and he didn't even know. Lol but you def. Cleared it all up.

  • @agffth
    @agffth 5 лет назад +1

    I’m new to comic books. This was really helpful. Thank you!

  • @luisguilhermebraganca4361
    @luisguilhermebraganca4361 6 лет назад +7

    This must be the best yt channel ever, gem mint boy, keep it up bro

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +3

      yoooo thanks Luis!

    • @purplebondsaiyan2987
      @purplebondsaiyan2987 3 года назад

      @@GemMintCollectibles Huge Fan Of your Channel Bro Just Join In as a Member Bro!! I would Love to Interview You for my Page on Facebook Called N.E.R.D Never Ending Research Division where I also Cover Comics, Marvel and DC Universe TV and Movies Plus Kaiju(Godzilla Universe) and More!!!! I would To Talk to you on Collectables and Value with you Please Text me or Messager Inbox at Jesus Millan!!! As well join my Group Page

  • @cousins6024
    @cousins6024 3 года назад +1

    this video really did help...Absolute Editions will be my go to, why would I NOT want to read the entire story? its like buying a 4k movie but it's missing 10 minutes here and there.

  • @bUnkkErr
    @bUnkkErr 3 года назад

    Thank you for the help you’re the 🐐 going to pick up some omnibus and library editions now 👌🏽

  • @aneelahuja1212
    @aneelahuja1212 3 года назад +4

    i love how 'new comic reader' friendly your vids are. slowly getting into them myself and... its def a hard medium to start at first

  • @23paul52
    @23paul52 6 лет назад +4

    ALWAYS HERE TO SUPPORT 💪💪

  • @mrgamerfuntime
    @mrgamerfuntime 4 года назад

    I have been considering starting a collection of comics. Thank you for this information.

  • @undacoval3rotha
    @undacoval3rotha 4 года назад

    lots of great info! love the videos man!

  • @Soccerloumike
    @Soccerloumike 6 лет назад +1

    That's what's up!!! Very informative video my man!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

  • @MrBingJob
    @MrBingJob 4 года назад +1

    I just wanted to say thanks for this info. As someone just getting into the medium this helps enormously being that I just assumed omnibus a absolute were just different words for the same thing.

  • @willlpowerful
    @willlpowerful 4 года назад

    Trying to collect some Absolute Batman releases and this helps a lot, thanks man!

  • @steveclark1142
    @steveclark1142 6 лет назад +4

    I wish they'd come out with Peter David's run of Hulk. this was very informative. maybe next you can get into the prices of these, what they cost usually.

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +2

      damn...shoulda talked prices here. ah, next time.

    • @xbox-ps4player939
      @xbox-ps4player939 6 лет назад +3

      Paperbacks usually between 15-30 depending on size
      Hardcovers 25-40
      OHC 30-60
      Omnibus' 70-150
      Absolutes 90-110
      And im not sure about the library editions and all that from darkhorse and image
      Usually can find anything in print for about 40% off

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +1

      i think the LEs are usually $50

  • @sharkt96
    @sharkt96 6 лет назад +2

    Great video didn't know there were so many different formats. In Mexico the publishing house does whatever it wants with the formats

  • @erikmena8745
    @erikmena8745 4 года назад +1

    Very informative video 😎🤟🏽

  • @miKeYdOEsNtLiKeiT508
    @miKeYdOEsNtLiKeiT508 4 года назад +1

    I use to collect single issues and my main thing lately has been the marvel unlimited app.. I love the way you can easily read and flip thru with the app but I'm thinking of getting into these books

  • @ignskeletons
    @ignskeletons 3 года назад +1

    I wish I could afford these lol. What I really wish though is that my local library offered these larger collected versions or just more comic books in general.
    We need public places to read comic books!

  • @WhoahRang
    @WhoahRang 6 лет назад +1

    This is a great overview bro. Hope this vid get you ton of views 👍

  • @Puddin_Tame
    @Puddin_Tame 6 лет назад +2

    Another great video!
    Sometimes the line blurs between omnibus and absolute format. For example, the Sandman Absolutes. I also wondered why Avengers Vs. X-Men isn't called an "omnibus." This may remain one of life's eternal mysteries!

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +1

      x-men OHCs are notorious for this. Why are the Inferno books not omnibubs? or fall of the mutants. Sandman actually has absolutes and omnibus.

    • @Puddin_Tame
      @Puddin_Tame 6 лет назад +1

      Right. What I meant is that the Sandman Absolutes can be looked upon as omnibuses (based on the content) but the Sandman omnibuses are not Absolutes(based on the height of the book)...if that makes sense.

  • @arrowknee7356
    @arrowknee7356 4 года назад +1

    Honestly I've read trades and a few omnibuses for years. But only got my first single issue comic in decades. I tend to prefer reading omnibuses due to the larger art, then trades, then single issues. There have just been some ongoing series I have been getting into that I just couldn't wait on. :) Great vid I can share with newbies.

  • @ricardocarmine2763
    @ricardocarmine2763 5 лет назад +2

    Got sweaty hands just by watching these, thanks for the info!

  • @Juniversal
    @Juniversal 6 лет назад +1

    Great vid. Very helpful..

  • @Ernasto
    @Ernasto 4 года назад +1

    Great video of the most common collected editions. Please note, that Marvel Comics did a lot of hardcovers up until a few years ago (i.e. Premiere Edition, Library Edition) in standard comicbook size, with dustjacket. Eventhough they aren't printed anymore, chances are a lot of comicbook stores still have them on stock and they are still in circulation in the used books-market. I wonder if the Monster Sized Editions from Marvel Comics are the same size or larger than the Wolverine Adamantium Collection? I don't have the Adamantium collection. Treasury Editions (a format from the 70's) also seem to be coming back in demand for current works..

    • @Ernasto
      @Ernasto 4 года назад

      If someone already posted the info I provide, sorry (haven't read all comments)..

  • @Tupiaz
    @Tupiaz 8 месяцев назад +1

    Pretty good walk through I think you could have added the compendium when talking about TPB. I know Walking dead did them over 5 years ago but how wide spread it was is kind of fuzzy for me.

  • @TechnologyTidbits
    @TechnologyTidbits 5 лет назад +2

    Excellent review. Subbed!

  • @Graphicxtras1
    @Graphicxtras1 3 года назад +1

    Great selection - you missed off the IDW artist editions (such as MAD one which is huge) as well as the mega-sized Marvel books (Behold Galactus etc)

  • @askloglog
    @askloglog 6 лет назад +1

    very helpful, thanks man!

  • @australiacomicsedge2697
    @australiacomicsedge2697 4 года назад

    Awesome video brother thanks for your video I really enjoyed this video. Keep up the great work

  • @megameechvideo777
    @megameechvideo777 3 года назад

    thanks for the video! that shao kahn in the back? badass.

  • @wolfgangkrauser9735
    @wolfgangkrauser9735 5 лет назад +1

    I will stick with the formats between the single issue and the omnibus, due to the money and the space in the house. I recognize the value of single issues, but the collected are more practical, more durable, and much cooler. Omnibus never was my thing, but I keep my mind opened; I will buy one if I find de arc/saga really great. Thanks for the video.

  • @fabiansimpson2022
    @fabiansimpson2022 5 лет назад

    Good review big dawg. Damn good !!

  • @stevenkitt242
    @stevenkitt242 6 лет назад +4

    Great video. Thanks. Any chance you could do a Usagi Yojimbo Collection video?? Pretty please 👍🏻

  • @Hazukisam
    @Hazukisam 6 лет назад +1

    awesome content!

  • @chrisholt5964
    @chrisholt5964 Год назад

    Great information, many thanks.

  • @BigHitCards
    @BigHitCards 5 лет назад +1

    Just picked up fear agent 1 and 2. Have yet to read it yet but the book is massive.

  • @spencerwelchii573
    @spencerwelchii573 5 лет назад +1

    Love the concept of this video, but you forgot a couple of the larger formats:
    The Artist Edition/Artifact Edition/etc (wiki page here:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist's_Edition) on average measure 12"x17 (but can be as big as 15"x22") and the Marvel Platinum/Adamantium/Vibranium fits this category as does the recently released by Marvel budget priced Fantastic Four: Behold Galactus which retailed for $49.99 and measured 13 41/64" x 21 1/4".

  • @Chicken507
    @Chicken507 Год назад +1

    So omnibus has all the events from other comics related to the story the omnibus is showing in the front cover. For example if I buy the long Halloween hardcover I will only get that story but if I buy the omnibus it comes with other story’s related to it

  • @brianthecollectorofall592
    @brianthecollectorofall592 6 лет назад +2

    Very informative, really appreciate this video Gem, thanks. Maybe for future informative videos you can go into detail of the different prices for each type of omnibus, absolute, etc. Rarity, Limited editions, low print runs, what is considered a grail? Just a suggestion.

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +2

      yea should have talked prices...they do vary, but something for next time

  • @alexgarcia-ct1pg
    @alexgarcia-ct1pg 4 года назад

    So informative bro...good shit

  • @TheYoungWolfI
    @TheYoungWolfI 6 лет назад

    Your vids are the shit! great stuff. And keep up the recent reads/discussions man!

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад

      i know, im slacking. i actually can do the messiah complex/war + x-force. I thought i needed to finish x-necroshia, but it doesnt seem like it connects that much.

    • @TheYoungWolfI
      @TheYoungWolfI 6 лет назад

      All good. Can always do another short recent reads of X-Necrosha some other day. But do what you gotta do.

  • @toriztraducciones7470
    @toriztraducciones7470 4 года назад

    So helpful, thank you very much!

  • @TheDARKNESS8030
    @TheDARKNESS8030 4 года назад +1

    I mainly get trades saving hardcovers for the stuff I really like. I hate getting marvel trades. They always only give your 4-5 issues for $16 and they charge more for 6-7. DC will always give you 6-8 for the same price. Instocktrades does help mitigate the price from marvel but still a feel bad spending that much for a few issues. My only omnibuses I have are the green lantern by Geoff John's, hack/slash and the punisher max series. Thinking about upgrading the boys collection.

  • @valentineveronica2973
    @valentineveronica2973 6 лет назад +2

    Gem, nice and informative video.
    Quick question, are the artist and artifact editions about the same size as the Adamantium collections?

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  6 лет назад +2

      i was going to show those, i belive those can be different sizes actually. the marvel covers ones that I have are taller than absolutes, but not as big as the adamantium ones

  • @TheChadTI
    @TheChadTI 2 года назад

    Learned here, thank you.🤙

  • @NotQuiteMint
    @NotQuiteMint 4 года назад

    I needed this explanation in my life so bad 😂

  • @wowiemnwow
    @wowiemnwow 3 года назад

    i had to subscribe to you after this man keep it up

  • @thatguywiththetripod8577
    @thatguywiththetripod8577 Год назад +1

    Not to knock on the larger formats, but to me those seem like a novelty then a practical way to read any of those stories. Omnibuses make sense, just have the entire event/tie ins in a single package, but when we get too the Adamantium/Vibranium versions I find them impractical for their size and thickness.

  • @LuisHernandez-zc2ci
    @LuisHernandez-zc2ci 5 лет назад +1

    One year ago! This video needs more views and more likes!

  • @RonaldDupont
    @RonaldDupont 3 года назад

    This was helpful. Thank you.

  • @billlumburg7594
    @billlumburg7594 6 лет назад +1

    Gem 💎 dropping the knowledge 👍🏽. Shout out on the Crisis on Infinite Earths Deluxe Edition, point!!

  • @andersonrossi1981
    @andersonrossi1981 5 лет назад

    Fantastic explanation

  • @mvm3897
    @mvm3897 5 лет назад +2

    Great video. I have never read a comic book but niw that I'm painting all these super hero statues I'd love to read about some of these characters. Any recommendations on where to start as a complete newb to comics? I'd be intrested in Batman, Spiderman, Superman, and anything X-Men. Thanks in advance and I have really been enjoying your channel and statue reviews.

    • @GemMintCollectibles
      @GemMintCollectibles  5 лет назад +1

      thanks matt... i think spiderman you can start with the first issues. Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus vol 1 by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. If you want something more modern, the McFarlane ASM run is being reprinted in the next few weeks. Or even Ultimate Spider-man would be good. X-Men, I'd start with the Uncanny X-Men vol 1 by Chris Claremont. Superman, I started with death of superman, theres an omnibus for that. Batman, Id read the New 52 run by Scott Snyder...there are trade paper backs for that.