You be the judge. Garmin Catalyst - Trackday at Mantorp (with added "opportunities")
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2020
- You be the judge, do you think the Catalyst is giving me good coaching tips this trackday? Does the last lap in the video seal the deal? Check my end comments ;-)
I'm filming the Catalyst using Racechrono for reference. You can see what the Catalyst shows on it's screen, what the Catalyst says and also see some extra data recorded with Racechrono for reference/comparison to the Catalyst and the driving.
This is the second session of the day. The Catalyst found the "opportunities" used in this session during the first session of the day that you can watch here • Garmin Catalyst - Trac...
You can also check out the security clip for the Catalyst you can 3D print and some more thoughts on the Catalyst here: / magnusthome-rejsanu
This trackday at Mantorp was my second trackday with the Catalyst where I got it working. Here are videos from the first trackday where me and my friend drove some sessions:
My second session at Sviestad • Garmin Catalyst - Trac...
My friends second session at Sviestad • Garmin Catalyst - My f...
Here's my intital runthrough of the display layout, mounting it and general thoughts: • Garmin Catalyst - Driv... 
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Got to say..I like it. While watching I could see a few corners that you didn't track out enough and the Catalyst scoled you..and that tight right hander..it wanted you to pivot more on the apex..which you did at the end..and it said nice work. Pretty impressive. I have been instructing for 10 years and will recommend this to my students.However..I honestly doubt I will lose my job. I did just buy one to play with..:)
AI: Mode push push, push push lmaoo
thanks for the video and comments
I really like how you presented this review. Very helpful
Thanks :-)
I get lonely out there on the track :) I will be loving to have that "SIRI" voice talking to me. This was a great video, very helpful, confirmed to me that I made the right decision in ordering a Garmin Catalyst. I am installing my unit on Tuesday, whopeee! I have already done the basic setup, went as far as I could go without having car here. Do I expect perfection initially? No, but I do expect the Catalyst will serve to unravel some driving line mysteries. I am especiall interested in the brake zone recommendations as I tend to over-brake.
My friend Janne was really really enthusiastic about the pep talk she is giving, he said it helped a lot. I'm still adjusting, I think I'll need one or two more trackdays (this was my second) to be REALLY efficient on taking advantage of the on track tips.
Also consider getting the security clip IMHO. Link in the description :-)
Should have known you’d be out here commenting about it. You keep making me buy more stuff. My dash looks like an Airbus A380 now. Don’t you have some POC events to prepare for? 😉
Interesting results. I think there may need to be more clean laps without traffic for the catalyst to make informed coaching contributions. Having lap data that includes slowing for traffic and changing your line to pass on corner entry could muddy the waters for the AI coach. That said, this is what we all deal with when driving HPDE or time attack events. For me it still remains to be seen if the Catalyst offers more than just lap timing and video recording with a pretty display. I think the omission of even basic OBD2/CAN logging is a deal breaker at this price point. Using throttle position to inform the AI coaching would have been extremely valuable. “Stay at full throttle longer” or “Get back to full throttle earlier” prompts are very helpful to lap times when coaching. Showing the percentage of the lap driven at full throttle during the post session review would also be enlightening. The “brake longer” prompt seems funny to me as well. Are they suggesting a longer brake release on trail braking? On the plus side I am sure Garmin can improve this over time with updates. For now I will stick to reviewing squiggly lines after the session like a caveman. Please keep posting the videos and have fun on track!
It actually has a number showing "how long you were on throttle" in each section which is good. But I think one still has to learn how to interpret everything with a bit of practice with the unit. Secondly, it is supposed to ignore driving data from sections where you had traffic, on a cool down or under a yellow flag. And also stop coaching under these circumstances. Which it is doing neither properly yet but I'm 100% confident Garmin is fine tuning these settings 👍
The "brake longer" prompt was, after looking at driving data, to brake further into the turn, so essentially trail braking as you suggested 👍
I'll be making a video of how to review your driving and take benefit of all the squiggly line data it presents. Will post this in a few days.
Rejsa / Magnus Thomé Sounds great! I always like seeing the product used by customers instead of relying on the marketing materials. Thanks for your work on these videos!
Fan vad coolt! 👍
:-)
Thanks for this. It interesting. I'm not so sure ultimately how helpful these instructions are or not. I guess you would need to do a number of track days to determine whether its truly the instructions/guidance that is helping you or just your natural progression. It certainly will never replace live instruction by an experienced coach, but maybe could help in some instances. I think I'll wait to see more reviews before deciding to take plunge or not.
Maybe, I'm not sure, there is a sweetspot of drivers that this works best for, not to fast, not to slow but in between these two. If you are less than half a second off from what is possible, maybe not for you. And if you are starting from scratch, maybe not optimal. But I don't know. At Sviestad, in the previous videos I uploaded, my friend Janne also tried it and he is a few seconds slower. He loved it. But, to early to have any conclusions whatsoever!
This is an interesting device. Also, couldn't find out in any of your previous videos, but what tire temperature monitor are you using?
A DIY device I made that is supported by Racechrono and Harry's Laptimer 🙂 All info here: github.com/MagnusThome under RejsaRubberTrac
Great video! Looking into buying one for myself, would you still recommend it?
Thanks, I haven't used it during the winter, no trackdays, but will start using it again soon. I think it'll help me focus on what I'm doing rather than just driving around for the fun of it only. Just got a new car so I'll get accustomed to that on track first with a few events first though before starting with the Catalyst again.
Hi Magnus, Is it you driving? (Sorry if I have got your name wrong.)
Interesting that you felt the coaching from the Garmin Catalyst did not make a substantial difference on the day - you would have done much the same without the coaching. (PB is one second quicker than your quickest on the day.) As you suggest in the final screen, you need to get more consistent first, then the coaching may be more relevant. Peter Krause (a data expert and data coach) reckons that the Garmin Catalyst will get top level race winning club racers 10ths a second improvement on their best laps. Just read your response to dogtag 114. What you say seems to be good advice for those considering buying one.
Hi! And yeah, it's Magnus :-)
I think one major part at play here for me is that I've driven this track for 20 years and there is very little time to find. My PB is with slightly better tires so this laptime might be about right for these tires really. A top professional racedriver can surely shave half a second or so off of this but for us amateurs this is roughly around what you can expect IMHO. But at the same time, as you can see in the video, I take time to get up to speed and my laptimes vary a lot. I think the Catalyst will help me a lot to be closer to my fastest time more of the laps by reminding me what I do wrong (what I should have done, brake later or what not) when I'm off the pace. And I think it also will help me to polish a few tenths.
Here are assorted laptimes on this track rejsa.nu/forum/loggdbtop.php?Bana=3
I think it didn’t recognize the apex where was the cones on that corner, nice video by the way
Something like that. Or mixing up curbs and track edge. Or a mix of those two.
I am a dealer at appliedpseed.com for the Garmin Catalyst but I do not recognize the data shown in this video of being the Catalyst. Is this a Euro version?
The video itself is recorded with Racechrono to show the Catalyst in action
Hi we race oval tracks and are looking for live delta just to help with Optimal qualifying laps. The problem we have is other deltas are slow to delta for the turn 1 and we miss half the track before seeing the +\-
Was wondering if this has the capabilities to show +\- has soon as you cross finish.
In the videos i noticed it showed lap time for 10seconds before switching to live delta
I'm not 100% sure I understood your question correctly. In the video you see the Catalyst on the dash and what it does, it shows live delta and will tell you the laptime by voice a bit after crossing the finish line. The data overlay in this video itself is done with Racechrono. The screen in Racechrono when live in the car is configurable, you can have latest lap laptime, and best laptime continuously shown on the screen and it updates right when you pass the finish line. It also shows live delta speed and live delta time compared to best lap.
@@rejsa-nu ok
So on ovals we run 16s to 20s laps times depending on the track.
When i cross the start/finish line with race chrono, the screen freezes showing my lap time but takes about 8 seconds to start showing live delta again and i miss turn 1 and 2 in the car. I can always look at it afterwards, but I’m wanting the +/- delta live in cockpit for turn 1 and 2.
Ah, get it, I got it backwards 😅 Why not contact Antti who makes Racechrono, he is a great guy and very open to improving the app. Of course its always a balance of development time and benefits to the app. Easiest is to post in his support forum on www.racechrono.com and see what he thinks. He goes under "aol" there.
Does this assume every track is flat or does it somehow sense on and off camber sections of the track? On some tracks, a tight inside line may be best to avoid off camber sections on the outer half, especially when elevation changes are also occurring.
You're touching on something quite important, the Catalyst doesn't know the fastest possible line round a track, it only knows how you've driven and what you did when you were your fastest. The easiest way to describe it is that it'll point out when you are sub-optimal to what you can do (or rather, have done). When you get to an unknown track you'll try out many different lines and try to remember what was fastest (including where it's best to sacrifice something to gain elsewhere). This is what it does, it helps you remember the fastest way you got around the track. If you stop trying alternative lines it can't help you. So for an extremely competent consistent fast driver it is not of much use. And not either for an extremely consistent stubborn "I'm sticking to this way, so there!" bad driver.
I'm more and more leaning towards describing the Catalyst on track coaching as "pointing out your mistakes". Which for an inconsistent driver like me is a VERY good thing. Instead of just driving on and forgetting them I'm loudly told and reminded the following laps what I did wrong, or rather what I should have done, but didn't.
So it doesn't replace the help you can get from following a friend who knows the track, studying a track guide or getting help from a human coach who knows the track.
But it'll help you when you are out on your own to keep track of when you are driving your optimal and when you are driving sub-optimal to what you can do, or rather have done. With a normal logging system this is exactly what you do, you later(!!) look at the squiggly lines and find out what you actually did when you set your fastest times. The Catalyst checks your squiggly data logging lines in real time and tells you right there and then!
The Catalyst records your laps. As such you can test the different lines and the Garmin tool will tell you which one is better.
@@jeangenibrel2149it can also stitch together the video from all your best sectors (corners maybe?) so you can see what your optimal lap would look like
Hey man, what do you use for the tire temp sensors?
Hi! A DIY sensor kit you can build yourself that I designed. Here github.com/MagnusThome/RejsaRubberTrac
I think the answer should be data aggregated from various drivers using the system, and comparing there driving lines and styles to yours that have similar times. This way the recommendations can be seen as tested improvements.
Also, filtering features will be necessary to deal with experience and hardware gaps.
Last, just curious when your tires and brakes wear or engine overheats. How will the system take this into account to filter out that noise?
It wont, it'll just know you're slower. Same thing if it starts to rain.
What is your setup for tire temps in Race Chrono?
Hi! This kit I made: github.com/MagnusThome/RejsaRubberTrac Also works with Harry's Laptimer :-)
@@rejsa-nu Thanks! I've stubbled across that project in the past. I spun my own CAN version of something like this several years ago, but the project stalled before I finished the software to actually connect to the phone or Racechrono. Maybe I should just build what you've done. 🙂
What overlay did you use? Looks great!
Racechrono 👍👍👍
@@rejsa-nu cool. Was it difficult to export from catalyst and "sync" with race chrono?
The overlays are Racechrono data logs only, sorry. Exports from Catalyst are slow GPS logs only. I think 1Hz only. No other data in export.
How did you mount the camera???
I made an aluminium bar attached to the headrest's two metal rods so the camera ends up in the center of the car.
What does "brake longer" mean vs brake later or brake earlier.
I had no clue when I was driving. Very confusing. I think it means brake deeper into the corner?
Hey guys, my read on that is to brake with a fraction less pressure, then carry that brake pressure further into to stop - could in fact be another way to say 'trail-brake into corner'. Longer braking at lower pressure reduces pitch/yaw, which in turn keeps the tyres more evenly loaded.
To me "brake longer" is wierd to interpret as it doesnt know how much pressure if you brake longer with more pressure that's worse of course.
I don't get this coaching tip 100% either
Hey, can you turn the voice off? & just have the screen going?
Yes 👍
@@rejsa-nu Thank you !