Helmets On Racetrack: Why it's Sometimes Better Without Them
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- Опубликовано: 11 авг 2022
- Why am I not always wearing a helmet on track?
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The simplest way to think about the safety when it comes to these devices is that they are intended to function as a complete system. HANS, helmet, harness, roll cage, bucket seat. When you start mixing and matching what you use and don't use, you are outside the designed function of the system, and things can happen that weren't tested or intented.
Great advice Misha and amazing video...We always take risk no matter what we do we minimize risk by being well informed and making decisions for ourselves. Love it 100% Agree with everything said.
Finally, this needs to be heard over and over again. Almost 10yrs ago i got in a argument at a local track where the rules said that i MUST use helmet on track, i kindly asked if he would pay for my whiplash recovery in case of an accident. But no, so i stupidly drove my m5 with helmet that day. Luckily i didnt crash.
Well I suppose it is the fault of the track rulemakers or how they are insured or something, with it likely being more to do with the paperwork than the actual practicalities of using a helmet, especially given that the rules would have remained even into the era of crumple zones and airbags
Yeah, but did you have a cage and/or harness? That’s the point to understand. Plus, 10 years ago the airbag safety isn’t nearly what it is now.
@@TML34 10 years ago this would have still been true, 20-25 years ago that would have been another thing
Another idiot heard from...🤣
@@TML34 yeah but 10 years ago the current m5 was the f10. Its litteraly one generation older than the newest one
Good information. I live in the US, New Jersey. The law on the street is, if you have a roll cage or half cage, it has to have padding attached to it. So you don't split your head open on it in case of an accident. At the local tracks you must wear a helmet no matter what.
Same applies for track days on circuit tracks. If you have any type of roll cage, it better have proper certified padding, not PVC foam. Also good for street use so you dont crack your head without a helmet.
Thank you for shedding light on this topic. Really good explaining, and letting people do their own choices.
As a dragrace driver, I would also only wear my HANS and helmet if I was in a racing prepped vehicle. When I am fully strapped in in my dragster, I have very minimal head movement due to the HANS, and this setup would be useless in a normal car with a 3-point seatbelt.
Been on track a few times, mostly spa, and they sadly almost always make it mandatory to wear a helmet even on the "slow" days
if you wear a helmet ALONE in the car then thats safe, when you have a passenger with you and you are the only one with a helmet. it could end badly for the one without helmet. when its mandatory and you have passenger, always make the passenger wear an helmet aswell.
I think this a great video to share information and very insightful, especially in terms of ring regulations.
There’s no other way I would know that on open days, HANS is not allowed.
Misha does great videos all year, even with his repaving videos.
I still want him to do a ride-along on the tow truck.
Good headline, and helps if you listen to what is being said, fully agree its not always the best choice, also the best safety system is control the ego 👍
An excellent and cogent explanation on the need for good risk assessment. Too often people take measures to reduce one risk and miss the new risks they have created.
great video about stock car safety! I think the discussion can also continue about ring tracktools.. and whether helmets are needed for cars with roll bars. Of course, most of them have at least 4 points harnesses.. but here comes the problem as it looks like most drivers of TF wear helmets and Hans device is not allowed on tf. So.. It's quite a big safety hazard.
I think people especially with factory roll bar equipped cars perhaps should not wear helmets too, because roll bar (let's say Porsche gt cars) is not equal to cage seen in the video and there is little chance to hit something in the back of the car. My point is that you really need to think twice what type of metal you have inside and maybe helmet is not the way to go even with racing harness if there are certain Hans restrictions applied.
Instead of adjusting to stupid rules, there needs to be someone with enough balls and common sense to lift HANS restrictions as by enforcing it is the same as government saying we would rather like you to die painfully in accident than survive.
This is such a good and important video. Thank you Misha!
Exceptional video! I've been wondering what the nuances surrounding helmets are, and I even asked about it when I saw a video of you wíth a helmet on.
Thanks for this!
Super interesting and informative Misha. Thanks for making this video
Thanks Misha. Can you please make a HELMET VIDEO? I am totally overwhelmed with the choices!
Very informative video, I loved it! Thank you Misha
wow thanks for the vid misha! i’ve def asked this before out of confusion with us track rules lmao
Great and important video! Thanks Misha
Under rated video and RUclipsr. I learn so much from Misha. Assumed the helmets were due to space in the car didn't know the facts.
Great video! Great explenation with top notch vocabulary, i'm really jealous, your english is so much better than mine. Thank you, i've learned something new.
Great video again... I like that you've demonstrated your mindset of considering the best possible approach even where some options don't deliver 100% satisfaction. I think that's healthy... and I think it's also healthy over time for all parties to continually reevaluate. I wouldn't make a judgement on the organization... I've never been there, but it does seem from afar a peculiarity of that circuit that it's a racetrack pretending to be a public road (which is better than the other way around) but then to learn here that with that HANS restriction you have drivers almost expected to pretend they're not in race cars! I dunno about that... I think you need to be able to drive any car with all its safety features enabled as it was designed!
This is good advice for the people like myself, who want to build a car that's more a track car than a road car. This taught me stuff that I never knew, so thanks Misha
Thanks for the knowledge guys. Learning something new :)
Not sure I subscribe to the part on issues with wearing a helmet in a standard road car. There’s no data I’ve seen that suggests you’ll have worse injuries with a helmet than without.
The airbag inflation and explosive tensioner on a seatbelt mean your body does not twist in the dramatic fashion suggested. Your seat being ultra upright and deliberately tilting your head forward exaggerates the reality of head movement and the whiplash claim.
I’d rather wear a helmet on track than not, and to base not wearing one on only a frontal impact alone is a bit narrow minded.
I think you should have stated a lot more that this is just your opinion - whilst it may be shared by others, it is just an opinion and not a fact.
Misha! One argument about Simpson Hybrid system.. the head movement is even stricter than with a Hans system and nuance that you do not need to be fasten with 4p. or 6p. harnesses because Hybrid system are weared as a kind of vest is not totally correct.
Those straps on your body from Hybrid system is one - for more comfort while you are not tighten in the car, second - yes it gives you some additional stoppage of the head movement if in case while crashing where safety belts become slightly loose due to impact of the car body in places which moves/cracks some body parts where safety belts are fixed. So safety belt fixed points are changing their place and loosening their tightness. But never the less it does not built for moments where you are not using shoulder harnesses.
Additionally Hybrid system gives you more safety in case of most dangerous rollovers through the front side of the car because system have two strap system attached to the helmet. This keeps your head overall movement in a circle more close radius.
Any way it is very interesting fact how they in the Nurburgring are approaching to the safety and as you mentioned about modern car safety features. For example if in the same event when helmet is not allowed you drive with latest M3 and crash at 130 km/h and then I drove Golf 1 and crash at the same exact speed without helmet. I believe those are two totally different safety situations and probably for Golf driver would be safer to wear helmet.
Just a thoughts of man who made some crashes in a road and rally car 😅
Great content Misha. Btw that red datsun in the back deserves a video.
great video, appreciate the explanation gives me a better idea of what to do
Top video. And very instructive . I was once in doubt to buy a helmet at the ed gas station which i ultimately did not do and with the money i saved i made a few extra laps on the ring . Greetings from the Netherlands 👌🏼💪🏎🇳🇱🇩🇪
This camera quality is banger. Love seing high quality videos
You are spot on Misha... interestingly I think pretty much all around the world, even in slow cars, when you get onto a drag strip, you MUST wear a helmet even in a modern car, with air bags all over the place and no roll cage.
Essential information for anyone new to open track days👍👍
Very important topic, thank you for your knowledge!
great and very informative video, loved it. Thanks
Mischa out here saving necks. Good info brother!
Great video! Another similar argument is neck braces on dirtbikes, some people swear by them while others will tell you that they will break your neck
Hi Misha, some great points
Made. A lot of this has been
Overlooked for a while now.
I go to a local hillclimb, its not
Very clear what they want.
I think its a situation that may
Go on and on...
nice video. lines up with what i've been told by my local boffins. i use a HANS so know the vision issue well but it is still surprising about HANS not being allowed. to be honest, low speed pit manoeuvres, backing up, exiting the garage etc is the most impacted as you can't swivel your head... i just go real slow. while on the track it's all good as long as you're looking at your mirrors, if you aren't doing that.. HANS or not.. you shouldn't be on the track full stop.
Great video! 🙌🏻
Interesting video Misha. Thanks
Awesome Misha!
Such a great explanation 👌🏻👌🏻
Some crazy good content lately Misha, btw this and going to the euro parliament to talk about EVs
Great explanation, and finally someone mentioned roll over.
Thanks for this very interesting, well explained and objective video. In France, we need to put an helmet on at any trackday we participate. However, lately, they published new restrictions regarding full cages. The driver, in that case, need to have an helmet and a full equipment (HANS, gloves and race suit).
yeah France is quite stupid on theses restrictions. They force people to wear helmets even if that can be worse without the hans.
I would force helmets only if there is a cage.
Cage, 6 points harness, simpson hybrid and lid for me on trackdays. Good vid saw Roberts too.
I had no idea. Thank you!
Great video Misha. 👍
Hopefully people coming to TF and trackdays aren't stupid enough to run non-fixed seats (like the Recaro Sportster CS) with harnesses.
9:58 Glasses disappear. 😂 😉
Excellent advice!
If required to wear a helmet, spend the extra money for the lightest one you can afford. Even saving ounces of weight makes a big difference when huge g-force crashes are involved.
Speeking about safety you should make a video about why is it very important to do physical training. And what kinds of training as well. What to start with and what will be the next level and so on…
Thanks you very much for this info.
another great topic!
Great video!
One thing to consider on the track however is how, despite the modern airbags, with two people onboard a road car there are certain kind of crashes in which is better for both to wear a helmet, as helmet against helmet > head against head. True, the weight issue remains... as usual, It's always a matter of trade-offs
I have been running track days for 10 years now, biggest problem is in between/hybrid setup, it’s potentially dangerous on the track and on public roads. If you have a road car, built after 2008, multiple airbags, 3 point belts, during a non competitive event fine. Though a helmet is always recommended on track. If you have racing seats and a six point harness and a steel cage Helmet AND Hans device should be mandatory no matter what. I would even say, if you’re going to fasten a harness with fixed seats, ALWAYS wear a Hans with the helmet.
best video you did ,
moral of the story, know the rules, understand what the safety means for you and the passenger. just realy commen sence ...
10/10 :D
In the states we’re only allowed to run a 4 point harness if it has ASM (Anti-SubMarining) technology due to some will pull the shoulder straps too tight and pull the lap belt higher then the hip bone.
A three point does work, I found out the hard way by breaking my collarbone and cutting my hip from the seatbelt in an accident.
The hybrid HANS device is designed to be used with a 3-point OEM seatbelt.
Basically for a dual purpose car from my understanding would be to have a half cage roll bar (behind the front seats) then either stay stock or run racing seats. Hard to hit your head behind you on the street and more protection if you flip over allowing the factory airbags to work as well (wearing seat belt). On the track with same setup Hans can be used with harness and helmet to avoid whiplash since you're strapped on the racing seat. Also, there is padding that can be use around the roll bar areas to avoid hard impact.
Anyone any thoughts on this?
Thank you for the video and knowledge about safety 🙏
I agree. I think this would be the best combo to minimize the risk.
11:25 that was very specific man, is everything ok? 😂😂😂
I rolled a mk1 golf as a teen the windscreen was popped out and the top of the windshield opening was on the dash and the roof was crushed to the head rest. Harness with stock seats and I'd have been dead for sure.
Wow, I didn't even realise there was so much nuance in this topic. So basically, racing safety works on a different principle than civil driving safety, so you can't just freely mix-and-match equipment between those two... Racing safety: your body is very limited on how it can move. Civil safety: your body is allowed to have bigger range of movement but everything that you can still hit in the car is made in a way to reduce possible injury.
Padding your cage isn't a bad idea either.
I love these safety sessions. Always learn something new
i just had this question few days ago, thinking about it, my answer was ahh Misha is too good he thinks he don't need it hahahahah :D
If it is a street car. No roll bar or cage. Those damn rollbars hurt like hell without a helmet on.
I think there might be a reason for a lighter padded soft ”helm” in a normal car just to soften any contacts with the car frame windows etc.
Especially in older cars without airbag.
That’s why in Australia, a full roll cage typically makes a car completely unable to be registered.
Safety goes first, respect!
Good video! It al depends on the car your driving and the situation you are in be it TF or trackday with the hans system or just modern car vs track built/oriented. Love that you are explaining it clear and simple.
Class. Makes sense. ✌
I feel like this topic can be discussed endless. For example; rollcage, bucketseats and 4pt harnass, can be safe without helmet in my opinion. there are proper 2stage foams for roll-cages. So at that point, what is the difference in an older small cabin car, where you could bang your head to hard plastic and eventually metal?
There is no denying that safety is very complex and you shouldn’t remove oem safety system/items.
But an older car like mine, without a rollcage is definitely unsafe as i’ve seen last year with my friend. If we were allowed with HANS on touristdrives i’d do it.
Cool video 👍🏻
Too bad that Rob is not doing tech talks video anymore, but I appreciate this one! Maybe you'd like to introduce tech talk videos to educate track day drivers?
8:40 StVO (§23 (4), right at the end) also not allowing you to wear at least a "full face helmet" during TF and even an open face helmet, if this is masking too much of your face.
I even saw people driving around Nürburgring (outside the track), with their full face helmets on. It's "only" 60€.
Good video
I remember Robert's video about this a while ago.
Never knew about the head rest on the sports seats, now it explains, why it's so far away on my subaru sti (and yeah, they are terrible in every way)
what do you suggest for a setup like the apex m4? (bucket seats, no full cage just rollbar, airbags still working)
Hi i'm from Colombia and i'll gonna make my first track day car (Ford Focus mk3) on a very limited budget and i need some help to know how to do it.
Firts of all i have to say, this is my daily car and that's the reason why i've to make just a roll bar (removable) and no a complete roll cage, so i would like to have many opinions as i could for my first "setup".
-Full face helmet.
-Hans.
-4 or 5 points harnesses.
-Use original seats.
The car is on perfect condition right now, but no airbags (blew out). So, is this enough or i need something else?
I need clear opinions about this before thinking on a "big brake", suspension or something else. For me "safety it's firts" and it's where all my money must go.
Thanks to everyone and sorry for my broken english.
not even a helmet can stop Takata airbags launching solid parts projectiles at drivers.
It should also be said that you shouldnt wear a harness without a hans device. The oem safety systems are designed to work in tandem to slow the body down in an accident, where as a harness keeps you tight to the seat. If you get in an accident while wearing a harness your body will stay stationary and your head will get thrown forward with all the g forces of the accident, and you can get a basal skull fracture which will more than likely kill you. Its what killed dale earnhardt.
I don’t really know how heavy is a helmet but at 100km/h on an impact, a 1.5kg item like your brain will experience a force equivalent to 59kg. I studied those when i was a school to become a driving instructor… a 150 phone weighs 5.9 kg
"heaviness" depends on acceleration during an impact and it depends on what you hit and what are crumple zones on your car , so you can't say that simple that its going to weight 59kg
Interesting bro ty. :)
Great shirt! WOW!
This is super interesting. Thanks Misha. Also i wonder why on the feetcam i see u brake with left foot? Id like to know the practical reason of it. :)
Here's a decent intro to left foot braking: ruclips.net/video/artiwTZKJA4/видео.html
If you search on RUclips I'm sure you'll get tons of other results as well.
Left foot braking is a common racing technique. Lets you switch from gas to brakes faster reducing the chance of lift-off understeer/oversteer
@@ReefMonkeyLift off understeer? How would that occur?
Hold up, only just realised where your garage is, is that where the guy who used to run the Alfa Romeo 75 ring rentals/taxis used to be?
You are a top G
Hello Misha. Allow me to disagree on some points: I don't understand how the added weight will strain your neck in a car equipped with an airbag. As you said, the airbag will push your head back so that means all momentum of the helmet is transferred to the cushion. In fact, since the front side of the helmet has an offset to your face, the contact with the cushion will happen sooner, therefore your neck will not deform and strain as much. Additionally, if your roof crushes in, part of the force will be transferred to your shoulders. All force will be on your neck without a helmet. Same applies to side crashes. The helmet will definitely avoid side whiplash neck strain. There might be cases where no helmet is indeed better, but I don't think it is as black on white as it may seem.
When roof will be crushed part of energy will NOT go to your shoulders. Helmet doesn't touch shoulders. I hit asphalt with top of my helmet falling from motorcycle and all energy went to my neck breaking spinal cord. I would need to have some kind of neck brace to allow helmet to push on shoulders.
@@Orzeszekk That is a bold statement, but unfortunately not always true. It only applies to the situation your head is aligned with your spine prior to the crash. There are a number of cases where the roof crushes in and the driver's head flips to the side. Have a look at rally videos. In the end, more haed volume means more limited range of movement, minimizing neck trauma because contact will happen sooner. Also good to keep in mind sharp edges, etc... Sorry to hear about your accident. Hope you recovered well!
@@diogorocha6311 I not recovered, it's permanent paralysis chest down. It's probably better to die during an accident than living shitty live but whatever. Head snapping to the side seems to be even more risky situation. Mentioning rally videos - those guys have full hans, cage and seat with side walls, I don't think you can assume that helmet is transferring weight to shoulder because of those side walls in bucket seat head restraint section which limit movement.
@@diogorocha6311 I am participating in local track events for fun and I don't wear a helmet. Just standard car belt and airbags. I have metal plate in neck + reconstructed one of vertebrae so I don't want any unnecessary strain on my neck, and become more paralyzed in case of another accident.😁
@@Orzeszekk i am trying to understand your logic. You are avoiding to use a helmet, in order to avoid making your situation worse? Regardless, we have to agree Misha's and many other drivers's case is not the same. Some people have accidents with helmets and say "I hate helmets, they didn't do anything for me" other people have accidents without them and say nothing at all....
Misha , is there something to discuss about belt attachment, for example many people believe the upper belt form a 6 point harness should be maximum 10 degrees corner attatch to an harness bar, instead of the ground. But is this true
I remember Rob's video from years back. It was misinformation and horrible advice. Check out my comment on that video. IF you are running 4/5 point you NEED 1) HANS 2) FULL ROLL CAGE. Why? (you forgot the most important thing): What happens in a crash if you are using a 4/5 point? Your body is stationary and your head is free moving. Bye bye neck (even at slow speeds!!!). This is how Dale Earnhardt died (not because of a crumbling roof). Do NOT run 4/5 point seatbelt without a HANS - period. The second reason is as mentioned in this video, but that is far far less likely than a neck injury due to your body being strapped down (not due to the added weight of the helmet as mentioned in this video).
So my new car will come with harness as well as seat belts, a roll cage in the back, a fire extinguisher and carbon bucket seats. Are you saying it is dangerous to use a harness with a helmet without the HANS gadget Misha put on? On regular streets in Australia where I live I think the harnesses are banned in most states.
@@alenaalena13 yes. Do not do it. The most dangerous (that was not mentioned in the video) is: your body is stationary with a racing harness in a crash and your head is not. It's suicide driving with a racing harness without HANS. It's also not great to have a racing harness + HANS if you don't have a roll cage as in a rollover your head/body has no movement.
I know that this video is in good faith, but having videos like this + Robert's out as safety advice (from a "reliable" source) is one of the huge problems with the internert. Entertainment is one thing, but please don't give safety advice when you don't know what you are talking about.
@@topgunm Thank you. I don't go on the track much (I'm too old and the car is too expensive) but last time I was there a GT3 owner put his car in the wall and wrote it off completely after having it just a few weeks. So, I am even more nervous as there is no insurance. I have a GT4RS coming which has a roll cage in the back, bucket seats and a harness and so I will have to find a HANS. Also, I should probably do some neck exercises given how stiff one's neck gets in old age.
Off topic, but could you please make a video on tire pressures?
I haven’t been able to find any info in your videos.
Does the same points apply to the passenger? Just curious given the lack of a wheel airbag.
I have a 996.2 GT3 Clubsport that actually has a full roll cage (not half) that came from Porsche. Should I be wearing a helmet and strapping in the 4 point harness even driving this car on the street?
In my country you need to wear a helmet on the track but without a HANS device a helmet in a modern car isn't the best option. I have a modern car and an older car with a cage and always wear my HANS device because of a broken neck I sustained years ago as an extra precaution. Each to their own especially in modern cars.
This makes me think of child safety seats. My toddler sits in a seat that looks like a 4 point/6 point harness - but wondering after this if that would exacerbate whiplash from a frontal impact bc he is obviously not wearing a HANS and helmet
It's a understood problem & the reason for rear facing child seats. Which are incredibly safe though the airbag needs to be disabled if the seat is placed in the front passenger position.
Very interesting video. What would you do in a Porsche with the "club sport'" package ? As those cars have a rear rollcage, a 3 points belt and a 6 points harness. On trackdays, helmet and HANS is my way to go, but I'm not sure on the Nurburging... Normal seatbelt without helmet or harness + helmet (without hans as it's not legal) ?
Personally I go either stock seat belt and no helmet or 6pt + hans + helmet on track days. The 6pt belts have much less stretch in them than the stock one so your neck is already getting a lot more of the decel to deal with...not worth the risk. What is annoying if you have the 6pt installed in the car however is that the recepticle will be lying between your legs and moving around on track. So I've tended to buckle up the lap belts just to keep it in place, it's not doing any harm that way but you'd need to remember to undo them if you ever need to quickly get out of the car in an emergency.
This is like the FIA/F1 telling F1 drivers to drive slower for safety. Making the Hans illegal on certain days is equally as stupid
You don't drive with a hans on public road, don't you ?
@@22Epic good point! I’m not sticking a roll cage in my Avalon.
@@TamagoHead Guess you dont't know what touristenfahrten means mate :D
@@22Epic good guess! No idea what it means🙃 (I looked it up, I can get by in a lot of languages -I’m a cunning linguist- but I had to google the term) 👍
@@TamagoHead It means that when the track is open to public it's just a normal road like the one you take to work, so traffic rules apply like only passing on the left, but it also means that you need to be able to get a good peripheral vision thus why the hans is forbidden. Maybe now my first comment makes more sense ? But why do I waste my time, as an american you probably don't even know where Germany is on a world map.... Ricer? 🤷♀ (nice edit btw too bad you can still see the original message ;) )
who owns the red datsun in the background? love it
What about neck collars / supports? Not HANS but those "soft" ones that limit you necks movement?
This video may have saved my life.
I wanted to add a roll cage into my car in case I had a rollover... I did completely forget about what would happen if my head hit the rollcage. :|
What about stock porsches with half rollcages and harness ? Helmet+hans or just regular business ?