Never even considered an FFB yoke before, but after seeing your videos, you have made me order one! You do a very good job of ensuring your viewers get a good understanding of both the subjective and objective aspects of the products you review. The quality of your videos is outstanding. You deserve all the channel growth you can get.
Ive had the Brunner for a week. The quality is outstanding. The software will some time to figure out and so far I cant find any instructions on what exactly all the setting do. But im seriously impressed and FFB is a huge game changer for my set up
@@g-locmedia for me, I did some research on Ytube. Also the Brunner company website highlighted all their products and it clear to see their products are high end. But in the end one must take the risk and decide to purchase or not. I chose to go for it and am impressed with the yoke.
These two could be the kick in the pants to take the new flight sim into the BIG BOY LEVEL OF FLIGHT SIMULATION... Gamers might not need this type of SIMULATION but real pilots and old school simmers will appreciate this peripheral..... 🐦
I watched both of them when they were released. Both great videos. I knew of the Brunner and the Simionic was something new. I have been wondering how they compare. You told me this video was in the works and I have waited to make a decision. Now I will have to wait a bit longer as we are in the Halloween season and to many projects and and not enough time to mess with them all. lol. The video was helpful. @@g-locmedia
I had a feeling that was what you were going to say! LOL I like your comparison. In this realm I believe that qualitative approach is important from the immersion standpoint. The reason one would buy a product such as these is to literally feel how the VR aircraft would respond in any given situation and hopefully in a realistic representation. Thanks for sharing your view point! I know which direction I am leaning now. Thanks for producing and sharing this information.
Both are relatively expensive when you look at their published price. But they become really expensive if you add shipment cost and the VAT (in my case - Poland - it's 23% of VAT on top). I was considering them, but with the shipment cost and VAT added my marriage would be at risk :( For Brunner: 1249 euro - the yoke 90 euro - shipment to Poland (really Swiss-grade price for 1000 km truck shipment of sub-10 kg package) 308 euro - 23% VAT in Poland about 20 euro - customs agency fee 1667 euro TOTAL Plus I don't know if any customs fees are applicable.
Thanks I've been waiting for this review. Good job! One thing you didn't mention was the cost of shipping. To the USA each of these run from $165 - $225. With the Simionic the highest.
I have the Brunner, yes it's expensive but worth every penny. Adds so much to the whole experience. Only downside it's the mounting, screwing it to my desk isn't really an option as I interchange regularly with a centre mounted Virpil stick, I used the clamps from my Honeycomb Alpha, works a treat. If your thinking about buying a Brunner, don't, just buy it because it's quality.
I tried both at the last Expo. I personally would stay away from the Simionic as the build quality is lacking and the handle is just cheap plastic with a seam down the middle. I told the owner that he really need to clean it up. The Brunner is a solid product with a good feel.
Its okay. For me its just to much money for just that effect. I have a YOKO and a transducer which gives a good effect and the way the Yoko simulates the pressures on the yoke is very good. I believe a full motion platform that moves everything would be a better investment. But at this point its only a dream for me.
Might be time to step up from my Yoko that I bought four years ago, to the Brunner. The yoko is a great yoke. However, FFB and (trim) is closer to my real world flying (just like VR) and something I've had my eye on for awhile. Since I have a 6DOF motion rig and a Jetseat vibration pad, I want nothing to do with engine vibrations in the yoke. So I'm glad there are options in the software. IRL I never feel that, only aerodynamic forces. Enjoyed your reviews 👍🏾
Great video! I have both the Brunner Yoke and Peddles and will never look back. The FFB effects on my flying experience is second only to a Level D Sim and or when real world flying. Best money I ever spent on my sim rig! If you’re on the fence it’s time to jump onboard Brunner hardware. You won’t regret it!
@@g-locmedia cheers mate, only recently discovered your channel. You’re doing some great work. Really like your setup, I’m thinking of switching to triple displays similar to yours.
@@g-locmedia currently have a Samsung G9 49” which is fantastic but I miss the height if that makes sense. Also do heaps of VR with the ole faithful HP Reverb G2V2 but I’m seeing your videos and thinking I’d really enjoy the large format triples for my day to day flying enjoyment. I need to find some very small bezel screens I guess for a triple setup.
@@DanRandomultrawides are cool but yea you do loose lots of height. For me VR still isn’t there yet with comfort and pass though. Although I do think VR is the future for me, just not yet.
Do you regret getting the Simionic instead of the Brunner? I saw in your gear review that your actual Yoke is the Simionic. I found it difficult to justify the price of the Brunner, and was wondering if you still enjoying your Simionic even if it feels a bit cheaper or if you are actually planning to replace it with the Brunner? Excellent video and thanks in advance :)
Hello mate. If I had the decision to make again I’d go for the Brunner. I haven’t flown the Simionic since I had the Brunner arrive for testing. The Brunner goes back to Switzerland just after Xmas. I expect that I’ll miss it. I would love to replace the Simionic with the Brunner. Maybe one day.
Hello Friend, Thank you for your swift and honest answer. I am located in Quebec, Canada but I have a friend in Switzerland that might be able to buy it for me from Switzerland and bring it back to me later on this year. The shipping cost and exchange rate is adding up a lot to the Brunner's total cost here if I order it online from Canada @g-locmedia Keep up your awesome work on your excellent video. The quality of the content and the image is really good and I really enjoy watching them Buddy! :) Thanks a bunch again for your help and have a great day! :) I already asked my friend in Switzerland to see if he could pick up one for me. Cheers!
Alright I finally decided to pass the order online for the Brunner CLS-E NG Yoke@@g-locmedia Thanks again Mate for the awesome video and great advice 👍
The real messed up thing over here is that these 2 companies actually have to pay royalties for a patent called force feedback that dates back from 1995. Which is why there are only 2 companies doing this instead of having an open market and allowing more development from multiple brands and which is why the yokes are so ridiculous expensive.
I've contact Flitesim a few times to try and get a review unit but unfortunately I've never heard back. The price point is quite enticing but unfortunately I can't comment on the product itself. Sorry I can't be of more help.
@@g-locmedia Appreciate the quick response. No worries. I think I'm going to go with the Brunner because of the good reviews and also I hear they are being used by Lufthansa, so I assume the ongoing support will be good.
Please confirm that the Brunner is compatible with full functionality support for MSFS and XPlane, but especially MSFS 2020. Also specifically which model of Brunner did you test?
Thanks for the review! Now the big question for me is do I get the CLS NG or the Mark II Brunner. The latter has far longer pitch travel. Similar to what my Fulcrumsim yoke has. Price is higher as well. I have read comments about not needing as long travel with FFB as it is more about pressure than linearly increasing force. I am not sure. I have PPL and know that the real yokes move way more than 90mm, and would probably feel awkward to fly with such a small travel.
I’ve never tried the the MKII. But I’ve heard it quite incredible. The extra power in the force feedback will give more fidelity. And cents only you have that 160mm pitch. After having this Brunner test unit I can tell you the MKII has a little savings account going for 2024/25.
@@g-locmedia You know, the question is: is the extra force needed or not? It really depends on if the CLS yoke has enough to provide for a solid feel and "substantial" feel in situations where it would be apparent in the real airplane. High speed manual flight for example on small GA. The controls tend to become quite heavy. But then on airliners like 737, they have partly artificial control feel, and with hydraulics normally working you won't see insanely heavy controls. Would you say that the CLS yoke has enough "substantial" feel in roll and pitch? Or do you find it already lacking in that respect?
@@teropa79 Hey, did you ever find a definitive answer to your question? I'm also a GA private pilot looking to get FFB. I currently have the Yoko, four years now.
I have a question. I mostly fly liners Airbus apart, I do use the a300, 737 pmdg and the upcoming PMDG 777? is it relevant to buy this yoke with these planes? as well as other fly by wire planes?
There is a hydraulic mode on the yoke which you can switch to for fly by wire. I haven’t used much at all though as I only really fly GA and o don’t have any experience with a real fly by wire plane to give feedback on how real it might feel.
@@g-locmedia thanks for the reply. It’s strange I didn’t get anything from Brunner to track order progress. There’s no way to make an account and track it either. I guess I just have to wait until it pops up at my doorstep lol
Can you explain the Difference between N and Nm in Force Feedback Yokes???? I was for a while Playing Car Sims(iRacing)and had Direct Drive Force FeedBack wheel hubs-I understand Nm but don't know about N....Also I think that 1.7 to 2.00 Nm may be a bit low....
Nm is a rotational force. N is a linear force. To understand how both compare I might not be the best person to explain it. 2nm while it sounds low works fairly well in the sim. So I want more. YES I do but it’s still pretty good.
A joystick would be the better choice for space sim. BRUNNER do have a FFB joystick bit to my knowledge elite dangerous is not supported in the CLS2SIM software.
Never even considered an FFB yoke before, but after seeing your videos, you have made me order one! You do a very good job of ensuring your viewers get a good understanding of both the subjective and objective aspects of the products you review. The quality of your videos is outstanding. You deserve all the channel growth you can get.
Thanks so much. You’ve made my day with that comment. Glad your enjoying the reviews.
I used to have the Sidewinder 2 on my FS98 setup
It was amazing
It's pathetic that nothing like that exists anykore
Really stunning cinematography as always!
Thanks mate. I’m a regular viewer of your channel and love it for all the goings on in MSFS.
Ive had the Brunner for a week. The quality is outstanding. The software will some time to figure out and so far I cant find any instructions on what exactly all the setting do. But im seriously impressed and FFB is a huge game changer for my set up
FFB makes such a difference to the sim. What made you go for the Brunner in the first place. Just curious.
@@g-locmedia for me, I did some research on Ytube. Also the Brunner company website highlighted all their products and it clear to see their products are high end. But in the end one must take the risk and decide to purchase or not. I chose to go for it and am impressed with the yoke.
These two could be the kick in the pants to take the new flight sim into the BIG BOY LEVEL OF FLIGHT SIMULATION...
Gamers might not need this type of SIMULATION but real pilots and old school simmers will appreciate this peripheral.....
🐦
I think we're gonna see a fair amount of new flight sim tech over the next few years.
Have not watched the video on this yet but just logged on and saw this content. It is what I have been waiting for!
Thank you. I have also two full review videos on these yokes. Might be a good watch after this one.
I watched both of them when they were released. Both great videos. I knew of the Brunner and the Simionic was something new. I have been wondering how they compare. You told me this video was in the works and I have waited to make a decision. Now I will have to wait a bit longer as we are in the Halloween season and to many projects and and not enough time to mess with them all. lol. The video was helpful.
@@g-locmedia
@@knowyourjoe8826 great to know the video was helpful
Just ordered a Brunner so happy to hear your verdict.
I’m sure you’ll love it. Happy flying!
I had a feeling that was what you were going to say! LOL I like your comparison. In this realm I believe that qualitative approach is important from the immersion standpoint. The reason one would buy a product such as these is to literally feel how the VR aircraft would respond in any given situation and hopefully in a realistic representation. Thanks for sharing your view point! I know which direction I am leaning now. Thanks for producing and sharing this information.
Thanks for your feedback on the review. Always great to hear how people digest it, good or bad.
Really interesting comparison, I love the editing on the video too. Many thanks 😊
Thank you mate. I'm a long term follower of your channel also.
@@g-locmedia Cheers mate much appreciated. I love your style, keep up the great content. Best wishes.
Both are relatively expensive when you look at their published price. But they become really expensive if you add shipment cost and the VAT (in my case - Poland - it's 23% of VAT on top). I was considering them, but with the shipment cost and VAT added my marriage would be at risk :(
For Brunner:
1249 euro - the yoke
90 euro - shipment to Poland (really Swiss-grade price for 1000 km truck shipment of sub-10 kg package)
308 euro - 23% VAT in Poland
about 20 euro - customs agency fee
1667 euro TOTAL
Plus I don't know if any customs fees are applicable.
Plus 500 Euro software! which is ridiculus
Ohhh man, I promised myself not to spend lots of money on flight sim gear this year! and then your video pops up!
It’s an addictive hobby. 2024 is going to be pretty cool for flight sim.
Thanks for this. Very thoughtful discussion and well made vid.
No worries. Glad it helped.
Thanks I've been waiting for this review. Good job! One thing you didn't mention was the cost of shipping. To the USA each of these run from $165 - $225. With the Simionic the highest.
Good point! I shall bring this up in my next video. Thanks for highlighting.
I have the Brunner, yes it's expensive but worth every penny. Adds so much to the whole experience.
Only downside it's the mounting, screwing it to my desk isn't really an option as I interchange regularly with a centre mounted Virpil stick, I used the clamps from my Honeycomb Alpha, works a treat.
If your thinking about buying a Brunner, don't, just buy it because it's quality.
Nice. Thanks for the insight on the mounting. great for other people to see that it's possible. Do you have the MKII yoke?
I tried both at the last Expo. I personally would stay away from the Simionic as the build quality is lacking and the handle is just cheap plastic with a seam down the middle. I told the owner that he really need to clean it up. The Brunner is a solid product with a good feel.
What did you think of the force feedback effects?
Its okay. For me its just to much money for just that effect. I have a YOKO and a transducer which gives a good effect and the way the Yoko simulates the pressures on the yoke is very good. I believe a full motion platform that moves everything would be a better investment. But at this point its only a dream for me.
I own the Simionic and I agree. Build quality is shameful, especially the trim switches. The problem with the Brunner (for me) is the small size...
Simionic is DIY quality while Brunner is premium quality
Great video overview! Beautiful camera work!
Thanks mate. I watch a lot of your DCS content too. Awesome channel you have.
@@g-locmedia Thank you! I appreciate that!
Might be time to step up from my Yoko that I bought four years ago, to the Brunner. The yoko is a great yoke. However, FFB and (trim) is closer to my real world flying (just like VR) and something I've had my eye on for awhile. Since I have a 6DOF motion rig and a Jetseat vibration pad, I want nothing to do with engine vibrations in the yoke. So I'm glad there are options in the software. IRL I never feel that, only aerodynamic forces. Enjoyed your reviews 👍🏾
I've got a MkII video coming out in the next few days and trimming is something I highlight in the video
@@g-locmedia perfect timing. Looking forward to the new video!
Great video! I have both the Brunner Yoke and Peddles and will never look back. The FFB effects on my flying experience is second only to a Level D Sim and or when real world flying. Best money I ever spent on my sim rig! If you’re on the fence it’s time to jump onboard Brunner hardware. You won’t regret it!
They make excelling FFB products that make flight simming so much more immersive. What yoke do you have?
Awesome video mate, I’m in the market for a force feedback yoke and this is super informative. Thank you.
No worries. Any further questions sing out.
@@g-locmedia cheers mate, only recently discovered your channel. You’re doing some great work. Really like your setup, I’m thinking of switching to triple displays similar to yours.
@@DanRandom what you running at the moment?
@@g-locmedia currently have a Samsung G9 49” which is fantastic but I miss the height if that makes sense. Also do heaps of VR with the ole faithful HP Reverb G2V2 but I’m seeing your videos and thinking I’d really enjoy the large format triples for my day to day flying enjoyment. I need to find some very small bezel screens I guess for a triple setup.
@@DanRandomultrawides are cool but yea you do loose lots of height. For me VR still isn’t there yet with comfort and pass though. Although I do think VR is the future for me, just not yet.
Do you regret getting the Simionic instead of the Brunner? I saw in your gear review that your actual Yoke is the Simionic. I found it difficult to justify the price of the Brunner, and was wondering if you still enjoying your Simionic even if it feels a bit cheaper or if you are actually planning to replace it with the Brunner? Excellent video and thanks in advance :)
Hello mate. If I had the decision to make again I’d go for the Brunner. I haven’t flown the Simionic since I had the Brunner arrive for testing. The Brunner goes back to Switzerland just after Xmas. I expect that I’ll miss it. I would love to replace the Simionic with the Brunner. Maybe one day.
Hello Friend, Thank you for your swift and honest answer. I am located in Quebec, Canada but I have a friend in Switzerland that might be able to buy it for me from Switzerland and bring it back to me later on this year. The shipping cost and exchange rate is adding up a lot to the Brunner's total cost here if I order it online from Canada @g-locmedia Keep up your awesome work on your excellent video. The quality of the content and the image is really good and I really enjoy watching them Buddy! :) Thanks a bunch again for your help and have a great day! :) I already asked my friend in Switzerland to see if he could pick up one for me. Cheers!
Alright I finally decided to pass the order online for the Brunner CLS-E NG Yoke@@g-locmedia Thanks again Mate for the awesome video and great advice 👍
The real messed up thing over here is that these 2 companies actually have to pay royalties for a patent called force feedback that dates back from 1995. Which is why there are only 2 companies doing this instead of having an open market and allowing more development from multiple brands and which is why the yokes are so ridiculous expensive.
Yea there's a few stories like that around but the least I heard the patent ran out in 2017
Interesting considering the amount of ffb racing wheels available these days.
Does the Brunner come with the software without extra cost? A bit confusing on their website...
Yea as long as it's for personal use it comes free
Combine this with a Primax Crystal, and a motion chair...would make an awesome flight experience.
I’m not much in to VR but your right. It certainly would
@@g-locmediawith that setup you probably don't need it, for the cost though I will stick with VR
How would you compare the Brunner to the Flitesim yoke? It's quite a big price difference.
I've contact Flitesim a few times to try and get a review unit but unfortunately I've never heard back. The price point is quite enticing but unfortunately I can't comment on the product itself. Sorry I can't be of more help.
@@g-locmedia Appreciate the quick response. No worries. I think I'm going to go with the Brunner because of the good reviews and also I hear they are being used by Lufthansa, so I assume the ongoing support will be good.
@@raeldor I do have experience with Brunner support and they are pretty good.
Please confirm that the Brunner is compatible with full functionality support for MSFS and XPlane, but especially MSFS 2020. Also specifically which model of Brunner did you test?
This was the Brunner CLS-E NG and yea it’s compatible with both MSFS and xplane
Beautiful
I have a Brunner, and it the best…not cheap but that why it the best.
The Brunner is a cracking piece of kit.
Thanks for the review! Now the big question for me is do I get the CLS NG or the Mark II Brunner. The latter has far longer pitch travel. Similar to what my Fulcrumsim yoke has. Price is higher as well. I have read comments about not needing as long travel with FFB as it is more about pressure than linearly increasing force. I am not sure. I have PPL and know that the real yokes move way more than 90mm, and would probably feel awkward to fly with such a small travel.
I’ve never tried the the MKII. But I’ve heard it quite incredible. The extra power in the force feedback will give more fidelity. And cents only you have that 160mm pitch. After having this Brunner test unit I can tell you the MKII has a little savings account going for 2024/25.
@@g-locmedia You know, the question is: is the extra force needed or not? It really depends on if the CLS yoke has enough to provide for a solid feel and "substantial" feel in situations where it would be apparent in the real airplane. High speed manual flight for example on small GA. The controls tend to become quite heavy. But then on airliners like 737, they have partly artificial control feel, and with hydraulics normally working you won't see insanely heavy controls. Would you say that the CLS yoke has enough "substantial" feel in roll and pitch? Or do you find it already lacking in that respect?
@@teropa79 Hey, did you ever find a definitive answer to your question? I'm also a GA private pilot looking to get FFB. I currently have the Yoko, four years now.
Hi
I received my brunner yoke
Do you just use the default profile or do you use other user profiles.
I’m not sure where to get guidance
Thx Lee
Hello Lee. I download profiles from the profile cloud and then tweak from there.
I have a question. I mostly fly liners Airbus apart, I do use the a300, 737 pmdg and the upcoming PMDG 777? is it relevant to buy this yoke with these planes? as well as other fly by wire planes?
There is a hydraulic mode on the yoke which you can switch to for fly by wire. I haven’t used much at all though as I only really fly GA and o don’t have any experience with a real fly by wire plane to give feedback on how real it might feel.
Arg, I want the Brunner, but the short pitch travel is really offputting.
They do have one with longer travel but it’s more expensive but I’ve never tried it so I can’t really comment on it.
I'm kind of surprised that you never even mentioned the 160mm yoke that Brunner also offers????
I don’t have any experience with that yoke.
I just ordered this Brunner yoke today. How long did they take to ship after ordering? Thanks.
I’m not sure where they hold stock. I have a feeling it will be in Europe. I’m in Aus and it took about 1 week to get here.
Sorry I never read your question correctly. I’m not how how long they take to send as this is a loaner yoke and I did not purchase through the store.
@@g-locmedia thanks for the reply. It’s strange I didn’t get anything from Brunner to track order progress. There’s no way to make an account and track it either. I guess I just have to wait until it pops up at my doorstep lol
Should have compared Simionic with Brunner MKII
Might be a Brunner NG vs MKII video coming soon. Could also put it up against the simionic.
How do these compare to the flightsim cls-60??
Can you run two of them at the same time for pilot and co-pilot
I haven’t tested that but I believe you can have them connected like that .
I wish you could take the yoke off and put on your own one
That would actually b quite cool. Maybe they will make interchangeable yoke wheels in the future.
@@g-locmedia yeah like with high end sim racing wheels you get that option, i feel like sim racing is so far ahead of flight sim gear atm
Is it possible to use Thrustmaster 787 yoke together with honeycomb bravo on xbox ?
I don't think so as you will need the Honeycomb Hub to connect up your yoke and throttle. I think you need to go one or the other.
does the yoke move sygn with the autopilot output?
Yes it moves in sync with the autopilot
Which one would you recommend broner vs redbird?
I have enough never used a red bird mate so I couldn’t comment.
@g-locmedia lol I mean I'm sure you've watched videos on it you definitely could've commented on it 😂 🤣 😅
@@nyrubin if I haven’t tried or at least had my hands on it mate I don’t like to say as these are pretty expensive products.
@@g-locmediahaha all good mate
Brunner now has another yoke that takes away the only benefit that simionic and that was the pitch.
Yes they have the big brother to the CLS-E MK II Yoke but its again another 700 ish USD
Can you explain the Difference between N and Nm in Force Feedback Yokes???? I was for a while Playing Car Sims(iRacing)and had Direct Drive Force FeedBack wheel hubs-I understand Nm but don't know about N....Also I think that 1.7 to 2.00 Nm may be a bit low....
Nm is a rotational force. N is a linear force. To understand how both compare I might not be the best person to explain it. 2nm while it sounds low works fairly well in the sim. So I want more. YES I do but it’s still pretty good.
Can this work with Elite Dangerous or joystick is better choice for space sim?
A joystick would be the better choice for space sim. BRUNNER do have a FFB joystick bit to my knowledge elite dangerous is not supported in the CLS2SIM software.
Brunner is not a gaming peripheral but a training device. It won’t work on games.
holy ghost give us money to buy both in jesus name. for now unable to buy either
Yeah but $1,000?
yea they are up there in terms of price
ufff.. +1000€!!! .... i think i'll keep my Turtle Beach yoke 😅
There’s no doubt they are expensive bits of kit.
I will cost u only a low budget vacation..