@@zachcarmichael699 slk halo is just a Chinese knock off like every other crbn wannabe when the crbn came out. Unless I’m missing something? If they have some core specifically to the vanguard I’d doubt the halo is using the same one. But could be wrong? I thought it was said the halos were just mass produced in China hence why they’re called SLK
Its a dink and reset machine. I generate my own power and it was the softest paddle I could find. The irony is that players always ask me about it, thinking it's a power paddle since I hit so hard. It allows me to swing out like a tennis racquet with poly strings
Surprised none of the Ronbus paddles made the list. The R1.16/R3.16 is super easy to use for any level player. The brand is known for easy dinks/drops/resets, especially when compared to its peers (ie. pulsar vs other thermoformed paddles)
Had them in the list originally, but I think it was largely redundant with the Apex and the Vatic in the list. I still think they are great, but the list could have easily become 5-10 gen 1 RCF paddles that all share largely the same characteristics.
Even though it has “control” in its marketing, the DBD and other thermos I think pack too much of a punch to be in the true Control category. Would have thought the OG Ronbus paddles would have found their way on this list tho.
DBD is a snub. Sorry. Major control paddle. I don’t feel like I can miss from closer to the net. Not as punchier as my other thermoformed paddle, but it’s amazing.
I was playing a 003 with over an ounce of lead, but have now transitioned fully to the DBD. Added a little lead today to the sides, and I think my blocks, resets and thirds are just about as buttery as with the S2 003. I prefer it to my Vatic Prism Flash. @@PickleballStudio
I have a Vanguard 2.0 and I am looking for a paddle with more spin but DO NOT want to sacrifice the control. My ability to reset, slow down and place the ball while dinking is much better than previous paddles. But now I want a paddle with better spin (preferably Carbon fiber that wont wear after 2 months)
Thank you. Love your videos. How are the sweet spots/forgiveness on these paddles? What paddles have the biggest sweet spots? Are standard size paddles always going to be better than elongated? My ten year old wants to start playing. Can he just use these paddles?
Personally my V7 as compared to my CRBN 3x feels more plush and has more access to easy spin. It feels more dampened and easier to control. Kind of like it pockets the ball for a split second where the 3x pops the ball off the face faster. The V7 feels more in control at the net especially with dinks. All my unprofessional opinion.
So, you splurged on Gearbox's deluxe paddle, expecting a Pickelball revolution, but all you got was a dud? Well, grab your gavel and prepare for a paddle showdown in small claims court! It's the ultimate match - you versus Gearbox, and no warranty loopholes can escape your serve. Let's turn this into a social media comedy special and serve up some justice, one paddle at a time! 🏓💼 #PaddleJustice
I played back in 2015-2016 and still have my OG Tempest Wave. I picked up a Prism Pro recently and feel it's too poppy for me, yet it's on your list for control paddles. Do you think that if I loved my OG tempest that I'd find similar at about $100 in the Hudef apex pro, gamma obsidian 16 or even a ronbus?
hi. thnx for the info and the channel. i bought the vatic pro prism 16mm after watching your vid. i used it a few times. however i think it's a big too long and heavy for me; i'm developing pickleball elbow. i should have listened to your recommendation more thoroughly and chose the flash instead of the v7 model. my bad. i wonder if you have other recommendation for a similar but lighter-weight paddle under $100 for a compact dude who stands 5'3" at 125lbs. i tried out the onix jr paddle today and it just feels so unsubstantial. while i like the weight at 7 oz and the 4" handle; the core feels hollow. i'm new to pickleball with a ping-pong background, and self-rate myself a 2.5 to 3 player. thnx, david
FYI - according to my conversations with Hudef, they also have foam injection around the perimeter on the Apex Pro line. I haven't ripped any of mine apart to find out for sure.
Im new to PB, and I see talk of face "grip" wearing down only after a few months ! I come from tennis, and we can re-string out racquets WHY doesnt the industry have a way to replace or refresh the PB face without buying a $200 paddle every 6 months ? Crazy
Totally agree with you on that. And it should be EASY to engineer. Table tennis is a good model. Replaceable skins. Maybe the industry hates the idea just because they'd lose so much money.
Any idea of the difference between the Vatic Prism Flash and the Vatic Flash Carbon Fiber? The only difference I can decipher, besides the price difference, is that the Vatic Flash Carbon Fiber is thermoformed. What effect will that have? Is one version better than the other?
If your playing style is to smack the be-jesus out of the ball, then the 14mm will give you more speed but you have to hit real hard to engage the rear surface. For all else get the 16mm.
Vatic Pro Prism Flash may be the one. Hoping swing weight here is even lower than the Babolat RNGD Touch I use now. Do you have that charted somewhere?
When talking control, I truly believe the gearbox cx14 belongs on the list. Spin will last the life of the paddle since it relies on the core and not the face and the life of the paddle is already much longer than almost any polymer core paddle.
I had it in the list originally, actually. I took it out because of the poor sweet spot (which is confirmed by the twist weight data, not just my opinion). I think a good sweet spot is a very important aspect of a control paddle. I still think for some people, the CX14 is great for control, but for the mass market, I don't think it is.
@@PickleballStudio thank you for the explanation and I see what you mean. I personally feel the extra spin is worth a smaller sweetspot which can easily be remedied with some lead tape compared to lack of spin which can’t be easily remedied.
@@jusan_tinos haha totally man, no offense taken here. I just wanted to share my thoughts on why it landed where it did. The #5 slot was really hard to land on. Everyone values different things, so it's tough to make it perfect for everyone.
The fact that the vanguard comes in at #5 just makes me really surprised and also disappointed lol. To say that there are only four paddles better for control than the vanguard is incredibly absurd and sad (just my opinion). And at 1100rpm and $200+ it shouldn’t be anywhere near your list 😂. How good of control can you have if it is immensely harder to put top spin on the ball due to such low rpm, and I’m not talking drives even third shot drops etc can be vastly easier with light top spin, which would give this paddle a disadvantage. I liked the prism at the price point, but the ball came off the paddle at different speeds at the net due to it being so spongy and probably mostly because they are not thermoformed, the hit is not as consistent as a thermoformed paddle, so I had trouble with keeping opponents at back line when I was at kitchen line. I think the normal v7 is so good, but after a couple months of hard play it will most certainly core crush and need to be replaced.
Vatic is one of the only companies that haven’t had mass core failures or delamination. Don’t know what you mean by that. I haven’t found my prism to be inconsistent at all? Also confused by that
That’s the thing right? There aren’t just four paddles better than the vanguard for control. I completely agree that the vanguard shouldn’t be anywhere near this list. There are numerous gen one cf paddles better for control. IMO, every single sst core gearbox is better for control. I’m sorry to Chris, but the vanguard was a horrible pick for this list. He couldn’t even sound less enthused when talking about the vanguard if he tried.
Haha well, I’m sorry if it offended you. There’s dozens of things to factor in when making a video like this. I could have made a list of 10 identical gen 1 RCF paddles. What’s the excitement in that? If they are all a similar price, all play similar, it’s a useless list. Everyone would be angry that I chose paddles that played near identical. Both the Vatic and Hudef cover a gen 1 ish paddle at a great price range. I gave the caveats of the Vanguard. Great for control, a bit overpriced, but you get a durable paddle and some of the best warranty in the game. For some players, that's very important. (Go watch my tier list video comments and you'll see people berate me over not mentioning warranty all the time). The video is just my opinion, it’s not the end all be all.
@@PickleballStudio no offense was taken though looking back at my comment, I could see why you and/or others would think that. Just like you gave your opinion, I wanted to give mine since I like many, like talking paddles and I apologize as well if I offended you.
@@PickleballStudio I agree! But also saying the vanguard and saying there’s all these shapes to choose from, shapes matter so much. Diff shapes will have dif control and power and balances points etc. Like the Vatic, all Vatics use the same core but play different because the shapes. Didn’t mean to come off so negative I just feel like everyone that I know considered those vanguard paddles to be garbo so was just surprised is all haha. Maybe I need to try it for my self 😂 Also I feel like if a paddle is so good at control but lacks all the specs in all other disciplines it’s probably not a good paddle to buy. But the video says control only so makes sense 😂
Disagree! I usually agree with you, but on this one I disagree! I own the SLK Halo Max 16mm and it's by far a better control paddle than the Vatic Prism Flash--which I own and is awesome, but it's not a great control paddle. My SLK is a better control paddle than the Scorpious as the SLK is softer. The SLK is a far better choice than the Selkirk Vangaurd too.
I want to know the best paddles for all-around play, the best values in paddles especially under $100; and the most durable. Ideally a list combining all of these qualities.
@@juliangallo9949 I have the 13mm and the 16mm Model E, they are both control oriented paddles. I like the 16mm Model E a bit better. However, I still mainly play with the Model E Elite for the extra power. It's just fun to play with the regular Model E as well. This was a Control paddle list, which is why I commented on the Model E's lower price. I think the Electrum Model E is a great control paddle.
Love it....but I think you do your video a disservice by starting off by saying that these paddles are for people who like dinking etc no power. People who generate a lot of power can use these paddles as well to improve their soft game. If i watched the start I may thnk these paddles aren't for me as I like to smash it.
Love my Vatic Prism highly recommend Flash versions. Best paddles I’ve used over Selkirk CRBN Diadem, can’t beat the price at $99.
Can't wait for the top 5 power paddles video!
I've been telling Sellkirk for two years now to put a RAW carbon face on their Vanguard paddles and it would be such a great paddle.
That's basically what the SLK Halo is. The only downside is only 1-year warranty vs lifetime.
@@zachcarmichael699 slk halo is just a Chinese knock off like every other crbn wannabe when the crbn came out. Unless I’m missing something? If they have some core specifically to the vanguard I’d doubt the halo is using the same one. But could be wrong? I thought it was said the halos were just mass produced in China hence why they’re called SLK
@@thomasneumann1629 Except the SLK outperforms in the Vanguard 2.0 line because they're outdated. $200 MSRP is crazy.
Selkirk control air is coming out soon
I'v been playing w/the Engage pro the last couple weeks & it's a great Paddle
Joola radius is what i play with, and it is the controlliest of the the control paddles
Its a dink and reset machine. I generate my own power and it was the softest paddle I could find. The irony is that players always ask me about it, thinking it's a power paddle since I hit so hard. It allows me to swing out like a tennis racquet with poly strings
Another great control paddle not mentioned is the Paddle Tec TS5 Pro.
SLK Halo Max 16mm best control paddle I've ever used. I own the Vatic Pro Prism Flash and the Halo Max 16mm has far more control!
Have you used the CRBN2 or DBD 16mm? I’m curious how they compare to the SLK.
Surprised none of the Ronbus paddles made the list. The R1.16/R3.16 is super easy to use for any level player. The brand is known for easy dinks/drops/resets, especially when compared to its peers (ie. pulsar vs other thermoformed paddles)
The R2.16 is also very underrated. Extremely soft paddle.
Had them in the list originally, but I think it was largely redundant with the Apex and the Vatic in the list. I still think they are great, but the list could have easily become 5-10 gen 1 RCF paddles that all share largely the same characteristics.
@@zachcarmichael699 I use R2 and prefer that one over my Vatic Prism Flash
Surprised the 6.0 DBD 16mm didn't make your list. Got it a few weeks ago and love it
Even though it has “control” in its marketing, the DBD and other thermos I think pack too much of a punch to be in the true Control category. Would have thought the OG Ronbus paddles would have found their way on this list tho.
DBD is a snub. Sorry. Major control paddle. I don’t feel like I can miss from closer to the net. Not as punchier as my other thermoformed paddle, but it’s amazing.
Amazing paddle, but I wouldn't call it a control paddle. Especially against others in this list.
I was playing a 003 with over an ounce of lead, but have now transitioned fully to the DBD. Added a little lead today to the sides, and I think my blocks, resets and thirds are just about as buttery as with the S2 003. I prefer it to my Vatic Prism Flash. @@PickleballStudio
I went from Vatic Prism Flash to DBD and love the DBD even more. I think it’s a perfect combination of power, spin and control.
I have a Vanguard 2.0 and I am looking for a paddle with more spin but DO NOT want to sacrifice the control. My ability to reset, slow down and place the ball while dinking is much better than previous paddles. But now I want a paddle with better spin (preferably Carbon fiber that wont wear after 2 months)
Love this format for videos. Good job, buddy. Oh and would you recommend 14mm or 16mm prism flash?
What do you think of the paddle j2k control paddle ? It’s supposed to be as good as the ruby ? What do do you think?
Just ordered the DBD after watching this video, thanks for a great review!
Thank you. Love your videos. How are the sweet spots/forgiveness on these paddles? What paddles have the biggest sweet spots? Are standard size paddles always going to be better than elongated? My ten year old wants to start playing. Can he just use these paddles?
Solid video man! Great work here. I have my top 5 control paddles coming out soon too! Love your content!!
How does the prisim model compare the the higher end carbon fiber model. is the more expensive paddle better or basically the same?
Personally my V7 as compared to my CRBN 3x feels more plush and has more access to easy spin. It feels more dampened and easier to control. Kind of like it pockets the ball for a split second where the 3x pops the ball off the face faster. The V7 feels more in control at the net especially with dinks. All my unprofessional opinion.
Would you recommend putting any lead on the prism flash?
So, you splurged on Gearbox's deluxe paddle, expecting a Pickelball revolution, but all you got was a dud? Well, grab your gavel and prepare for a paddle showdown in small claims court! It's the ultimate match - you versus Gearbox, and no warranty loopholes can escape your serve. Let's turn this into a social media comedy special and serve up some justice, one paddle at a time! 🏓💼 #PaddleJustice
Can you review the new Pro line backpacks or even a top 5 bags list?
I played back in 2015-2016 and still have my OG Tempest Wave. I picked up a Prism Pro recently and feel it's too poppy for me, yet it's on your list for control paddles. Do you think that if I loved my OG tempest that I'd find similar at about $100 in the Hudef apex pro, gamma obsidian 16 or even a ronbus?
Chris - are you planning to review the Pickleball Apes Pro Line Energy? I’m hearing good things.
hi. thnx for the info and the channel. i bought the vatic pro prism 16mm after watching your vid. i used it a few times. however i think it's a big too long and heavy for me; i'm developing pickleball elbow. i should have listened to your recommendation more thoroughly and chose the flash instead of the v7 model. my bad. i wonder if you have other recommendation for a similar but lighter-weight paddle under $100 for a compact dude who stands 5'3" at 125lbs. i tried out the onix jr paddle today and it just feels so unsubstantial. while i like the weight at 7 oz and the 4" handle; the core feels hollow. i'm new to pickleball with a ping-pong background, and self-rate myself a 2.5 to 3 player. thnx, david
FYI - according to my conversations with Hudef, they also have foam injection around the perimeter on the Apex Pro line. I haven't ripped any of mine apart to find out for sure.
Any thoughts on new PaddleTek “iced” carbon fiber surfaced paddles?
They should be sending them soon!
I was hoping for this video! Also will you be doing an official Mach 1 Forza review?
have you hit the wave v3 yet?
Not yet! Hoping it will come soon.
Looking forward to it!
Im new to PB, and I see talk of face "grip" wearing down only after a few months ! I come from tennis, and we can re-string out racquets WHY doesnt the industry have a way to replace or refresh the PB face without buying a $200 paddle every 6 months ? Crazy
Totally agree with you on that.
And it should be EASY to engineer. Table tennis is a good model. Replaceable skins. Maybe the industry hates the idea just because they'd lose so much money.
Any idea of the difference between the Vatic Prism Flash and the Vatic Flash Carbon Fiber? The only difference I can decipher, besides the price difference, is that the Vatic Flash Carbon Fiber is thermoformed. What effect will that have? Is one version better than the other?
The non Prism will be much more powerful.
How do you decide between 14 or 16mm Vaticpro Prism Flash?
If your playing style is to smack the be-jesus out of the ball, then the 14mm will give you more speed but you have to hit real hard to engage the rear surface. For all else get the 16mm.
Forgot the Ronbus R1.16 great control....
Vatic Pro Prism Flash may be the one. Hoping swing weight here is even lower than the Babolat RNGD Touch I use now. Do you have that charted somewhere?
Unfortunately I don't have stats on the RNGD.
@@PickleballStudio Yeah, I was wondering that too (the swing weight of the Vatic Pro Prism Flash)
@@PickleballStudio sorry I meant to say TWIST weight
When talking control, I truly believe the gearbox cx14 belongs on the list. Spin will last the life of the paddle since it relies on the core and not the face and the life of the paddle is already much longer than almost any polymer core paddle.
I tried it yesterday, literally not enough pop to hit resets. Spin on it felt terrible compared to Ronbus/CRBN. It was the older version though.
I had it in the list originally, actually. I took it out because of the poor sweet spot (which is confirmed by the twist weight data, not just my opinion).
I think a good sweet spot is a very important aspect of a control paddle.
I still think for some people, the CX14 is great for control, but for the mass market, I don't think it is.
@@PickleballStudio thank you for the explanation and I see what you mean. I personally feel the extra spin is worth a smaller sweetspot which can easily be remedied with some lead tape compared to lack of spin which can’t be easily remedied.
@@jusan_tinos haha totally man, no offense taken here. I just wanted to share my thoughts on why it landed where it did. The #5 slot was really hard to land on.
Everyone values different things, so it's tough to make it perfect for everyone.
CRBN 2X
Can you do Top 5 Paddles to win 1 singular game in a tournament next?
He said overall that impressive 😂😂😂😂
What happened to the simple weight? Analysis paralysis
Do a top 5 power paddle
Working on it!
The fact that the vanguard comes in at #5 just makes me really surprised and also disappointed lol. To say that there are only four paddles better for control than the vanguard is incredibly absurd and sad (just my opinion). And at 1100rpm and $200+ it shouldn’t be anywhere near your list 😂.
How good of control can you have if it is immensely harder to put top spin on the ball due to such low rpm, and I’m not talking drives even third shot drops etc can be vastly easier with light top spin, which would give this paddle a disadvantage.
I liked the prism at the price point, but the ball came off the paddle at different speeds at the net due to it being so spongy and probably mostly because they are not thermoformed, the hit is not as consistent as a thermoformed paddle, so I had trouble with keeping opponents at back line when I was at kitchen line. I think the normal v7 is so good, but after a couple months of hard play it will most certainly core crush and need to be replaced.
Vatic is one of the only companies that haven’t had mass core failures or delamination. Don’t know what you mean by that.
I haven’t found my prism to be inconsistent at all? Also confused by that
That’s the thing right? There aren’t just four paddles better than the vanguard for control. I completely agree that the vanguard shouldn’t be anywhere near this list. There are numerous gen one cf paddles better for control. IMO, every single sst core gearbox is better for control. I’m sorry to Chris, but the vanguard was a horrible pick for this list. He couldn’t even sound less enthused when talking about the vanguard if he tried.
Haha well, I’m sorry if it offended you. There’s dozens of things to factor in when making a video like this.
I could have made a list of 10 identical gen 1 RCF paddles. What’s the excitement in that? If they are all a similar price, all play similar, it’s a useless list. Everyone would be angry that I chose paddles that played near identical.
Both the Vatic and Hudef cover a gen 1 ish paddle at a great price range. I gave the caveats of the Vanguard. Great for control, a bit overpriced, but you get a durable paddle and some of the best warranty in the game. For some players, that's very important. (Go watch my tier list video comments and you'll see people berate me over not mentioning warranty all the time).
The video is just my opinion, it’s not the end all be all.
@@PickleballStudio no offense was taken though looking back at my comment, I could see why you and/or others would think that. Just like you gave your opinion, I wanted to give mine since I like many, like talking paddles and I apologize as well if I offended you.
@@PickleballStudio I agree! But also saying the vanguard and saying there’s all these shapes to choose from, shapes matter so much. Diff shapes will have dif control and power and balances points etc. Like the Vatic, all Vatics use the same core but play different because the shapes. Didn’t mean to come off so negative I just feel like everyone that I know considered those vanguard paddles to be garbo so was just surprised is all haha. Maybe I need to try it for my self 😂
Also I feel like if a paddle is so good at control but lacks all the specs in all other disciplines it’s probably not a good paddle to buy. But the video says control only so makes sense 😂
You switch your opinion like you change your underwear, what happened to Six Zero DBD? What about best paddle Period?
Disagree! I usually agree with you, but on this one I disagree!
I own the SLK Halo Max 16mm and it's by far a better control paddle than the Vatic Prism Flash--which I own and is awesome, but it's not a great control paddle. My SLK is a better control paddle than the Scorpious as the SLK is softer. The SLK is a far better choice than the Selkirk Vangaurd too.
Damnn, no Ronbus r1.16?
R1.16 is a fantastic paddle. Feels redundant to put in the list with the Prism and Apex though.
It was in my list originally.
Where’s the tempest wave v 3???? You’ll know when you finally try it lol
They haven’t sent one yet.
I want to know the best paddles for all-around play, the best values in paddles especially under $100; and the most durable. Ideally a list combining all of these qualities.
Rev Aria paddle for 99$
The Electrum Model E is also still available, for $108 (w/code)! 🙂
is it worth getting that paddle?
@@juliangallo9949 I love my Model E. I play with it and the Model E Elite. I'd like to hear what Chris thinks at the current price.
@@roguegaston I bought the 13m and I felt I couldn’t get the power I needed from it. So I ended up returning it.
@@juliangallo9949 I have the 13mm and the 16mm Model E, they are both control oriented paddles. I like the 16mm Model E a bit better. However, I still mainly play with the Model E Elite for the extra power. It's just fun to play with the regular Model E as well. This was a Control paddle list, which is why I commented on the Model E's lower price. I think the Electrum Model E is a great control paddle.
CRBN 2x perfect blend of everything.
What about the CRBN 3x?
What is the spin like on the Prism?
Love it....but I think you do your video a disservice by starting off by saying that these paddles are for people who like dinking etc no power. People who generate a lot of power can use these paddles as well to improve their soft game. If i watched the start I may thnk these paddles aren't for me as I like to smash it.
Who is this guy? He never gives his name.
Me? Chris Olson haha