And their (edit: Vatic) shipping is fast. Ordered one last weekend and had it mid-week. Got the flash and did have to weight it up a bit. I find I use it when I’m too jacked up to control the Power Air Epic.
Oh man, I ordered my Legacy Pro last week but didn’t use your code (saw your other video on it). This video confirmed my choice. Coming from an Icon so will be interesting to see the transition.
Thank you for your time and posting. Great info. Remember about three years ago. Selkirk came out with the first over $200 paddle. There an incredible amount of commentors that said, "no way, I would never pay over $200 for a paddle". :)
I have a 4 monfh old 16mm Hyperion. Needless to say, the grit has diminished significantly. Would really like to see a longevity review on these competitive carbon fiber peddles. Thanks for posting.
It’s because Joola uses off brand Carbon, I just bought the CRBN 1X because it uses T700 Toray Carbon from Japan which is a world leader in Carbon, has much more tensile strength and will not wear out nearly as fast
Great video, Will! I was planning to make this same video already (great minds think alike!), but I couldn't get my hands on the Legacy Pro and Vatic before they sold out. I have been playing with the Six Zero paddles, and they are REALLY good.
joola cfs hyperion elevated my game and used 2 of them to exhaustion in a year, having ordered a 16mm Vatic pro flash I'm already hitting some shots I couldn't hit before
Really surprised to hear that the Legacy Pro is considered a power paddle. I just received my Legacy Pro and played with it last night for a couple of hours and found it gave me more control than the Engage Encore EX 6.0 I learned on and have been using exclusively for the last few months. Really no adjustment needed. I found it easy to get spin with it but although it feels an ounce or so heavier than the EX 6.0 I have when holding it, the actual swing weight feels less and thus hands battles I felt much faster with it. Really impressed and enjoy it so far. The only shot I couldn't make consistently at first was hard drives from the baseline, but I'm sure that will come pretty quickly.
Nice comparison. I played with both the Legacy Pro and Vatic Pro yesterday. Best way i can describe the Legacy Pro face is stiff while the Vatic is plush. Your review was spot on
Couldn’t agree more about the spin numbers. Have been wanting spin numbers to be listed with paddle swing speed as well. The Black Ace gets great spin on huge swings, but it can’t compete with the Hyperion 16 or 003 on soft rolls and dinks.
Legacy is currently designing a paddle cover for the paddle,I hope it is ready for Feb/23 shipments (which I have ordered one Legacy),they did not comment if this cover would be part of the Feb Promo or the cost would be an add on as an optional accessory
VERY informative video, thanks a bunch. I really benefited from your insight on the importance of the spin numbers, I play mostly doubles and now after watching your video I will not be watching those rpm numbers so obsessively. I am leaning towards the vatic for overall play and price but I heard that some changes are coming from vatic in early February (thanks 60 second reviews) that will make the paddle better overall.. Maybe worth waiting a bit...
Spin testing in PB has a ways to go, in my opinion. Take a look at golf, by comparison. Spin rates are a really big deal in golf clubs and ball selection. But manufacturers NEVER list absolute numbers, even though the testing equipment for golf ball data is next level, using a combination of radar and laser imaging, and complex software. This is because of all the variables that could affect real world numbers, as opposed to those done in controlled testing environments. To your point, Will, until the advent of PB swing robots that put the same velocity on every stroke, proper spin measuring camera equipment, a standardized ball for all tests to be done with etc, there's really no point in paying attention to absolute numbers. A mere high, middle, low tier rating should be sufficient.
Vatic Pro stays the same just new graphics. The 14mm Flash will have a different CF weave the 16mm Flash will play like the Pro. Per Daryl Wang owner of Vatic
@@scottfrancis13 Using the revised Flash 16mm. My first "thermoform". I really like the soft feel on my trashed elbow from 30 plus yrs of twisting wrenches. I've tried Prokennex but didn't like the feel of the ball strike.
Great video will, I ordered the legacy pro days ago for 136 with your promo code but said back ordered until feb(like you mentioned) something to look forward to
Took your advice and ordered the 14mm crbn 1x and man does it feel amazing! I’m curious to try the 16mm but loving the paddle so far man. Great reviews!
I bought the Vantic Pro and its great on edge hits where most paddles die. Must be that newer stiffer frame? Lots of topspin on the serve, from myside they look long, but they dip at the line. Best paddle so far for me. Tried the Yoola Vision but was only 1/2 the paddle of this one! I would of ordered the Legacy but out of stock!
Will, thanks again for keeping us informed about all things paddle related. I just watched a review of the new Ronbus EV1.16, which has some EVA foam in it’s core but is not approved yet as I’m sure you know. Did this paddle fail due to increased deflection like the Diadem Vice? I’m very interested to see what this year brings regarding paddle technology.
Thanks for the reply. I don’t really have anyone to talk paddles with. I’m wondering how companies like Ronbus are going to dial down deflection to get them approved and still incorporate some EVA foam. The future of all this stuff is exciting ain’t it? Have you gotten a chance to play the19mm ProDrive paddle yet? Sounds intriguing. Can’t wait to get your take on it. Thanks again for all your honest and relevant content. Bob
Yes I have and have been meaning to make some sort of video on it soon. I like it a lot it’s basically a more powerful diadem Warrior and I love the warrior
@@PickleballWill How do you ever decide which paddle to grab when you’re just going out for some rec play? Speaking of which did you get to play with my friend Cory when you were in Ct? My Legacy Pro should be arriving any day now. Very curious. I hope it isn’t too poppy.
Don’t think I got a chance to meet Cory since I was their for a very short period of time unfortunately. As for choosing a paddle I typically have a bag with a few paddles. It typically holds a daily driver and some paddles I test or I just enjoy and I just grab the whole bag. Occasionally I will update and cycle the “quiver” but I will play with just about anything when it comes to rec because pb is just that fun
Another good review Will, thanks... Just an FYI… A little background on carbon fiber. I recently retired from a large military contractor and I worked in their composite center for the last few years. Toray is one of the largest suppliers of CF in the defense industry. It’s used in critical areas of military aircraft for its strength to weight ratio (i.e. it surrounds areas like the fuel tanks, black box locations and pilot seats and cockpit area because it can take major artillery rounds without failing). So, I would expect CF paddles to outlast any other paddles as far as wear is concerned with an added benefit of its weight reduction and strength. The carbon fiber can be woven in many different ways so it looks like Legacy hit on a pattern that is really benefiting their Pro paddle. So, it’s no surprise that other paddle manufacturers are jumping on the CF bandwagon and I would expect to see more.
Just curious if you could speak on the “texture” that we find on the raw carbon fiber paddles that we mostly see in the market. I was told that this texture is essentially just an imprint from the machines that happen to make the composite that is then cut out into the shape of a paddle VS in comparison to say the Gearbox carbon fiber paddles that are weaved during their construction process that doesn’t have the texture?
@@PickleballWill Well, we always specified the type of weave in the material specs like angles of the CF, thickness, density, etc... I'm not familiar enough with the actual machines that are making the paddle material but if you look at the microscope close-up it's a weave, not sure how the machines could imprint that pattern but I may be wrong. Hummmmm, I wonder it Toray would answer the question. I'll send them a note and see what they say.
Just got off the phone with Cris Dickert, Owner of Legacy Pickleball, super nice guy and very open with me. That material was engineered by Chris that way and not stamped on. Composite material is a real art/science with very complex manufacturing with the different layers and adhesives used to make up the face of that paddle. The thermal forming that they used is unique and they deserve a ton of credit for developing this material that's having such a positive impact on the new Legacy Pro CF paddles that hit the market. I'll be ordering my Legacy Pro and soon as I'm cleared to play again. Chris just started a company YT channel and he covers some of the build here, maybe he will get into more details in a future video: ruclips.net/video/VMIm2KCdsos/видео.html
Thank you such for posting this review, you're a legend! Definitely feel more confident after purchasing Legacy Pro after listening to your review Will.
I heard about new thermoformed paddles through PbStudio's newsletter. Any plans to do an updated comparison video comparing these new paddles to the ones you already mentioned in the video?
The big trampoline example for the legacy is perfect compared to chris RPM test. It tested higher than the others. Do you guess thats because the ball is staying on the surface longer like a person jumping on a big trampoline would?
I think its definitely part of the equation. Dwell time, Swing speed(swing weight), Surface friction, technique, all play a function in generating spin potential.
I haven't played with the xpak but ive been told it plays like the previous CRBN paddles so I'm going to take a guess to say its plays very close the the CRBN1x 16mm and the Vatic Pro. I'm sure the xpac performs well enough
i am a 14mm guy just because i like to feel the ball on my paddle....I have the Diadem Icon which is really good but I wanted a bit more pop, I then got the Engage Pursuit which is good for pop but i felt like I wanted more spin, so now I am waiting for my Crbn 1x which I hope takes the pop and spin to another level...great review too and I am subscribed
I need some guidance. I recently moved up to 4.0/ 4.5 level. I’ve been playing with a Pickleball Apes Proline Energy. I feel like I need a bit more power and pop on my shots. There are sooooo many options out there. I love my paddle, and I’m coming from a Tennis background. HELP‼️
There’s a few I would put in their own tier above the rest. Here are what come to mind in no particular order: Six Zero DBD 16, Vatic Flash 16, Ronbus Pulsar, SLK Halo Control, 006, Gearbox GBX. Some of these might lean into the power side a bit but I would consider most of these either control paddles or all court paddles
Currently playing the Engage MX Pursuit 6.0 looking to transition to a raw carbon paddle for a bit more spin and pop. Any recommendation on going from the engage a carbon paddle? Thanks!
To be quite honest with you. If you like the Pursuit 6.0 and just looking for more pop I would look at the non 6.0 version that is thinner. After that I would look into the CRBN 1x 16mm and you will notice a significant amount more pop and some spin on drives. If you gotta take your budget into consideration and don’t mind a slightly shorter handle the Vatic Pro is a good option. The 6.zero double black diamond is a decent mid ground between everything and all the paddles I mentioned earlier (pop, feel, spin, budget) good luck
Thanks for the great review Will! I'm leaning towards replacing my Electrum Model E which I have been using for a year with a CRBN 1x 16mm. Based on your comments, sounds like they are similar but with the advantages of the foam injection plus a bit more spin?
I’m just gonna be real with you right now I think any of these paddles would be an upgrade but also, all these paddles are gonna have a bit more deflection/power than your model E. May take an adjustment on resets and drops because the model E is quite “plush” in my opinion
I believe the core walls of the honeycomb in the Electrum are thicker than all the competitors. Something not talked about in reviews as for differences between manufacturers.
Hey how is the surface of the power air holding up? I saw some videos talking about certain paddles losing a lot of their spin potential relatively fast.
I personally haven’t seen noticeable drop offs but I have heard some people saying they have lost spin quicker than others who also have the paddle. I still think it holds up way better than most other paddles out there
Will, in your opinion, Legacy Pro versus Warrior Edge? in 16mm. Thank you. Also, I am the only person who thinks that First Responder series paddles actually feel better than generic Edge itself?
I'm going to have to go with the Legacy Pro on this one just because of the extra power. Although if you like to reset and drop then the Edge is a strong choice as I did play with the Edge for quite awhile. I haven't played with the first responder series of paddles and feel like I would just gravitate to the original Warrior over them just for the added weight. Original Warrior still a favorite of mine
I've never played with an elongated paddle, so I'm curious, generally does an elongated paddle have a bigger or smaller sweet spot? Or, is it the same size, but in a different spot?
Unless the hitting surface area of a paddle is substantially larger, the sweetspots of these paddles are usually around the same size but just shifted. Elongated ones have more narrower sweetspots. The traditional shapes have more rounded ones. You kind of have to think about your paddle and where the ball strikes the face in terms of distance from the edges. So if we take a traditional shaped paddle, which is more "circular", the sweet spot would also be more "circular" and wider. This is because the distance from the sweetspot center to the edges are more equal when compared to an elongated paddle. They honestly don't feel that much different to me though. I personally just like the longer reach. Hope that helps!
Great review Will. My question is, the honeycomb core "wall" thickness is what is making the "pop" of the Legacy "feel" more than the others? T700 is the same so other than the cores wall thickness being different, it must be the adhesive used I'm thinking. I just got the revised Vatic Pro 16mm and like the feel and control of it to polish my "soft game".
I'm sure its a combination of the core honeycomb, glue, carbon fiber layers that create the pop that you feel from the Legacy. Whatever it is that they are doing, it def feels different from the rest of the paddles out there. Feels more like an EVA foam paddle to some people.
@@PickleballWill Wonder if "weave" direction of the T700 has something to do with it? I play a VICE and EVA is great for my trashed elbow. I thought that the "injected" foam might be EVA, but found out that it is not.
I highly doubt it’s the pattern on the carbon fiber face that makes it play the way it does. Probably material choices, % used by those materials, and the way it’s constructed
Yeah with the Vatic having a shorter grip it is a little more surface area than the CRBN 1x I put tungsten tape at 2,5,7 and 10 o clock to increase the sweetspot.
I think it competes just fine especially if you are a control orientated player. However I don’t think it’s a good value anymore at it’s price point of $175 when other similar or even better paddles are out there at similar or lower price points. I will say that I have probably played my best dialed doubles games in the past 6 months with this paddle
Thanks Will. Great content. Once you receive and play test them, would love to see you work the Six Zero review into this comparison, as opposed to a standalone review.
I found your power results for the 14mm hyperion interesting. In my personal findings I found that every thermoformed paddle that I have tried hits harder than it. Have not tried the vatic flash tho.
The thermo form overall hits harder and aside from the legacy and CRBNx14 the rest are similar in power to me. I’d probably say I put the Hyperion 14 up there because I’ve had the most time with it and its been modified with weight where as the CRBNx16 and Vatic Pro were stock when I tested them
Great video Will very detailed definitely your best to date. One question I have is the swing weight. I know the 1X has a swing weight of 121 I believe could be 123. How does this rank with the others. Also, it's lighter than the Ben Johns but does it bother anyone else's elbow like the Ben Johns did with a higher swing weight?
Thank you 🙏 I haven't played with the CRBN1x 16 long enough to tell you if it bothers my elbow or not. The 1x has a higher swing weight than the others in the video for sure but not by much when compared to the other 16mm. I think that balance of the CRBN1x, Legacy, Vatic Pro are pretty much perfect for all court play
what are the paddles closest to the feeling of the ben johns hyperion 16 mm cfs ? I'm trying to find a replacement, I really enjoy the handle, head shape, the weight (I also add lead get get it solid feeling at the throat), and I love the grit, it sucks that it wears down. I'm not trying to replace it every 3 -4 months.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but all these paddles wear down eventually and 3-4 months sounds pretty typical for most avid players. As for paddles closest to the BJ Hyperion 16...shoot thats kinda tough to say since I do think it def has its own unique feel, balance, and attributes. Maybe a Vatic Flash 16mm with a bit of extra weight added to the top of the paddle is my first thought.
You need to do a review of the top performing thermo formed power paddles whoch should not only include the Legacy, CRBN 1X, and Vatic Pro V7, but also include the Joola and the Six Zero Black Diamond.
I’d say they are all pretty comparable in power. The main difference is the feel that these new paddles have compared to the power air. They still feel controllable in the kitchen when dinking and that may be due to the sound. Haven’t played with the epic Power Air so can’t speak in that
Hi Will, I have problem with blocking a hard drive from transition zone. Ball always pop too high with my CRBN 1x 14mm. Do you think Legacy Pro or CRBN 1x 16mm can help me? Which one? Or I just have to overcome the extra pop from 14mm? 😂
The Legacy pro isn't gonna help you haha maybe a CRBN 16. loosen that grip, try to stand semi open and use the weight transfer from the leading foot to the backfoot to absorb pace
Another great review with thoughtful insight and perspective. My Legacy Pro arrives today. I am excited to give it a try. I imagine it may take me a while to adjust to it.
My first impressions of my new Legacy Pro- I received my Legacy Pro yesterday and took it to our local outdoor courts to hit some balls with a friend. Today I played my regular indoor games with my Monday, Wednesday, Friday in group. The more I played with it the more I liked it. I like the pop and power. I liked the amount of spin. I liked the amount of control. It felt better with each game. THANKS LEGACY PRO AND CHRIS DICKERT! I think its a great paddle at an extremely attractive price.
Is the CRBN 1x 16mm feel like the Hyperion 16 mm? I’m curious cause I have a Hyperion and I love it but it’s so top heavy and affects my hand speed at the kitchen. Looking to get a similar paddle but lighter for faster hands.
Yes it’s like it but less top heavy. It’s a bit firmer on contact and you may have a bit of an adjustment on resets but I would say they are very similar imho
The Hyperion will feel softer due to the 2 piece construction. The one thing about the one piece carbon paddles is they do feel a little stiffer compared to others.
Greate review on a list of qualiity paddles! Have you made a decision on what your main paddle will be yet? Or maybe you have a runner up? The legacy pro sounds very promising, do you like it more than your power air?
It's perfect for me personally. It has the power i've been searching for without sacrificing the touch and type of control I like. I have been trying to make things work with the Selkirk Power Air for the last few months and just couldn't. The Hyperion 14mm has been a very close contender but I still found myself desiring more putaway power. My only knock on the Legacy was that I wish it was just a bit longer in the handle for my 2 handed backhand.
@@PickleballWill I believe the Legacy Pro will be a better fit for my style of play also. I am coming from a Gearbox CX11 control and a CRBN 13mm and look forward to getting the Legacy paddle. Thank you for your testing and reviews! They are very helpful.
@PickleballWill I also believe it is helpful to have your perspective along with what Chris says. He is more of a Selkirk 003 guy, while you are more of a Power Air guy. Having perspectives from both of you is perfect because it helps me to think through my options more accurately, I believe.
Waiting for my Legacy Pro which they have begun to ship out. $145 ($130) with the discount code is a steal particularly since it is expected to go up to $170 later.
Is the .2” handle length difference between the Legacy Pro and the Crbn noticeable? I’m currently use the Selkirk V2 Mach 6 and like a longer handle. Great video, thanks for doing these awesome, in-depth reviews!
Personally for me when I do my two hand backhand I have the index finger of my left hand sticking up on the back side of the paddle and with this method I can't tell the difference between the two handle lengths. However when I put both my hands on just the handle, I do feel the taper of the shorter handle paddle digging more into the space between my thumb and index finger.
Depends on how big your hands are haha. Its not so much of a difference for me but if i had a choice i would go with a longer handle. I'm not in love with having my left hand choked up on the handle that much and my finger on the face of the paddle but its not the end of the world. This is probably also in my head but i feel like the longer handle paddles swing faster
Great video on some comparisons we wanted to see!! Thanks will! Hey, based on the demand for more paddle review videos, what do you think will happen? Do you think more Pickleball RUclipsrs will emerge to film that demand? This would be an interesting topic for a future podcast (your opinion on how large the demand for paddle review videos really is compared to the supply of quality RUclips review videos, and how much more space there likely is for more RUclipsrs to emerge before that demand you are seeing would be met).
I think there is still plenty of room in the space and different angles. I watch multiple channels that review the same cameras, tech, events, edc, and they are all successful and unique. Keep a look out on a future pod because we actually do have an episode on content creation later this month with ThatPickleballGuy, Kyle Koszuta
Will, when are you planning to have a review of the SixZero Black Diamond and Double Black Diamond? On these Paddle reviews I think it is increasingly become relevant and important to analyze how the manufacturers are using grit on the face. To pay premium prices for premium paddles only to have the grit wear off fairly quickly is a ripoff. Thank you.
Should be coming out end of next week, although I’m not knowledgeable enough to explain the affects of these much more “finer” surfaces like on the legacy and six zero on spin. If more companies do it and get really good results it will be safe to say these new surfaces are superior when it comes to spin potential
I’ve been using a JOOLA Hyperion 14MM for a while, I bought the CRBN 1X 14MM and honestly didn’t like it. It was too poppy, and found it hard to adjust. Might buy a 16MM to see if I like it, but I still swear by my Joola. I ordered a Joola Solaire yesterday so I’m interested to see how that is
Nice I’d imagine you would like the 16mm CRBNx but if the Hyperion 14 still works ain’t gotta change it, it’s still a really solid paddle. Solaire imho is almost the same to me at Hyperion 14mm
Great points on the spin situation. More than I'll probably ever need. I have a Grvn 16h and an Engage pursuit mx 6.0 and the spin I get on the textured graphite Engage is very similar and more than enough to spin the ball at will
Exactly the type of review I was looking for on these, thanks! I think I have settled on the CRBN 1x 14mm for myself, but a couple quick thoughts: 1. I think spin numbers are overrated, while swing weight is underrated. Spin matters a lot while playing, but like you mentioned, exact rpm numbers do not matter as much as high/mid/low tier placement. Swing weight on the other hand, seems overlooked by many but can drastically change the overall feel of a paddle while playing, especially for people with certain playstyles. 2. I also think we might be able to divide the categories of power and control at least one step further, not sure on the best names but maybe something like penetration/plough-through and striking for the power category and forgiveness and placement for the control category. Having only the two categories of power and control will always leave some types of paddles potentially misplaced. For instance is the Ben Johns Hyperion a control paddle? Well sort of, but its swing/static weight actually give it great penetration on drives and serves. Is the Vatic Flash a power paddle? Not really on drives, but that 14mm pop and quick handling swing weight would give it high marks on striking from the kitchen line.
Depends on your price point. Got the 16mm 1x in Friday and the spin is ridiculous especially on serves my drives were dipping hard out of the air. Haven’t gotten that with another paddle. The CRBN 1x and Vatic feel similar with the Vatic maybe feeling a little softer. Spin on the Vatic was a little less than CRBN 1x but only slightly. Honestly for the money the Vatic Pro is a heck of a deal. If money not an issue I would get the CRBN 1x 16 as it felt to me to be a superior surface. Havent hit the Legacy Pro but reviews say has too much pop. Power is good ( I generate a lot of it)but only if its controllable. Why I ditched my power Air Invikta.
Legacy > Carbon 1x 14 Legacy = Carbon 1x 16 (this is preference dependent imho. Both are great all around but Legacy leans power and CRBNx 16 leans control)
@@PickleballWill Off topic. Do you add lead tape to any of your paddles? If so, which ones and where do you add them? You're currently using the Legacy Pro, so if you put lead tape, where?
Been using a Joola 14 Swift, and hadn't thought about changing, then hearing all this chatter about these other paddles and I am now that guy in the Meme walking with his girl and looking back at the other girl. it's all so complicated...
Awesome, thanks. I'd like to hear choices in this context as well: your pick from this group to use for your next tournament for singles, for doubles, and then if you had to pick 1 to use in both singles and doubles. You kinda touched on the both category with your best all court choice it sounds like.
Hey yes will def do that in the future for my personal picks. I am of course trying to not let my personal choice of paddle to affect yours and others. If I had to pick just one paddle it would be the Legacy Pro for both singles and doubles. The CRBN1x 16mm would be a very close contender for 2nd in doubles and the CRBN1x 14mm would be a close contender for 2nd in singles. But overall for me the Legacy Pro is best choice from what I am looking for and how I play
@@PickleballWill yeah makes sense. Keep up the good work! My take on influence is if you provide your personal reasons how it fits your play style maybe that helps reduce negative influence. People will either hear how their style is different so doesn’t make sense to pick the same or see their style is similar to some degree and find it useful which you kinda included already with ‘if hand speed is important to you’ type of statements which are great. People will still blindly copy picks though so I understand if you hold back on some info. I found it interesting though because from what I heard in this vid I would’ve guessed your choice for the both category would been the 1x 16mm so that makes me more curious about your pick as it pertains to your style. To clarify in case it wasn’t clear, the pick choice I was talking about was if you could pick more than one so you have one for doubles and singles, and then if you could only pick one for both.
I hear yah thanks for the feedback will def consider this for reviews moving forward! For me I need extra power, I’m a little guy haha and I want as much power as possible without sacrificing the amount/kind of control I like. So Legacy Pro is the one. Also, even though I get sent many of these paddles for free I still factor price and what I would have to pay in my decisions when choosing a paddle. The CRBNx you see here was actually bought with my own money just so I can “feel” the burn in my wallet and helps me better assess the paddles 😆 so this is another reason I chose the Legacy
I feel like paddles are like iPhones….I came from the slk line. Great stater paddle. Now I have the CRBN 1x 14mm. Its like when I jumped from iPhone 5 to X. Massive improvement but I would notice if I was getting a new upgrade every year!
@@PickleballWill Haha, glad you have a good sense of humor. Jokes aside, thanks for the videos and podcast. They are great. Hope this thing blows up for you.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
You forgot to mention that legacy pro charge for shipping and vatic pro does not.
Thanks for reminding me 🙏
And their (edit: Vatic) shipping is fast. Ordered one last weekend and had it mid-week. Got the flash and did have to weight it up a bit. I find I use it when I’m too jacked up to control the Power Air Epic.
Just order two. Problem solved 😉
Oh man, I ordered my Legacy Pro last week but didn’t use your code (saw your other video on it). This video confirmed my choice. Coming from an Icon so will be interesting to see the transition.
T
S please 10:04
Thank you for your time and posting. Great info. Remember about three years ago. Selkirk came out with the first over $200 paddle. There an incredible amount of commentors that said, "no way, I would never pay over $200 for a paddle". :)
I have a 4 monfh old 16mm Hyperion. Needless to say, the grit has diminished significantly. Would really like to see a longevity review on these competitive carbon fiber peddles. Thanks for posting.
Yep 3-4months is about how long they last in terms of grit levels
It’s because Joola uses off brand Carbon, I just bought the CRBN 1X because it uses T700 Toray Carbon from Japan which is a world leader in Carbon, has much more tensile strength and will not wear out nearly as fast
Great video, Will! I was planning to make this same video already (great minds think alike!), but I couldn't get my hands on the Legacy Pro and Vatic before they sold out. I have been playing with the Six Zero paddles, and they are REALLY good.
If and when you do please make that video 🙏
joola cfs hyperion elevated my game and used 2 of them to exhaustion in a year, having ordered a 16mm Vatic pro flash I'm already hitting some shots I couldn't hit before
Coming from badminton, the legacy pro is super fun. It feels closest to a badminton racket with high tension.
Really surprised to hear that the Legacy Pro is considered a power paddle. I just received my Legacy Pro and played with it last night for a couple of hours and found it gave me more control than the Engage Encore EX 6.0 I learned on and have been using exclusively for the last few months. Really no adjustment needed. I found it easy to get spin with it but although it feels an ounce or so heavier than the EX 6.0 I have when holding it, the actual swing weight feels less and thus hands battles I felt much faster with it. Really impressed and enjoy it so far. The only shot I couldn't make consistently at first was hard drives from the baseline, but I'm sure that will come pretty quickly.
My experience exactly. Super control, very accurate and fast hand speed. Not quite as much power as my Joola CFS16 Hyperion.
Thx for the video! Confirmed my purchase. Can’t wait for my Legacy Pro!
You da man Will! Interesting how there are still differences between paddles that seemingly have the same specs & tech.
Thanks 🙏 There are but honestly its still tough to distinguish them sometimes haha
Nice comparison. I played with both the Legacy Pro and Vatic Pro yesterday. Best way i can describe the Legacy Pro face is stiff while the Vatic is plush. Your review was spot on
Will actually said the opposite😂
Will actually said the opposite😂
Will actually said the opposite😂
I'm going to go with the Vatic V7 Flash model. They have upgraded the line.
How is it working for you?
@@vincentlow7306 Vatic Pro Flash 16mm not the V7. My bad. I like it. Played it weighted and stock. Leaning toward weighted.
Couldn’t agree more about the spin numbers. Have been wanting spin numbers to be listed with paddle swing speed as well. The Black Ace gets great spin on huge swings, but it can’t compete with the Hyperion 16 or 003 on soft rolls and dinks.
Sold my Ace for that reason.
Legacy is currently designing a paddle cover for the paddle,I hope it is ready for Feb/23 shipments (which I have ordered one Legacy),they did not comment if this cover would be part of the Feb Promo or the cost would be an add on as an optional accessory
absolutely amazing video that was much needed! appreciate the work man
VERY informative video, thanks a bunch. I really benefited from your insight on the importance of the spin numbers, I play mostly doubles and now after watching your video I will not be watching those rpm numbers so obsessively. I am leaning towards the vatic for overall play and price but I heard that some changes are coming from vatic in early February (thanks 60 second reviews) that will make the paddle better overall.. Maybe worth waiting a bit...
Glad it was helpful!
Spin testing in PB has a ways to go, in my opinion. Take a look at golf, by comparison. Spin rates are a really big deal in golf clubs and ball selection. But manufacturers NEVER list absolute numbers, even though the testing equipment for golf ball data is next level, using a combination of radar and laser imaging, and complex software. This is because of all the variables that could affect real world numbers, as opposed to those done in controlled testing environments. To your point, Will, until the advent of PB swing robots that put the same velocity on every stroke, proper spin measuring camera equipment, a standardized ball for all tests to be done with etc, there's really no point in paying attention to absolute numbers. A mere high, middle, low tier rating should be sufficient.
Agreed 💯
Vatic Pro stays the same just new graphics. The 14mm Flash will have a different CF weave the 16mm Flash will play like the Pro. Per Daryl Wang owner of Vatic
@@scottfrancis13 Using the revised Flash 16mm. My first "thermoform". I really like the soft feel on my trashed elbow from 30 plus yrs of twisting wrenches. I've tried Prokennex but didn't like the feel of the ball strike.
Great video will, I ordered the legacy pro days ago for 136 with your promo code but said back ordered until feb(like you mentioned) something to look forward to
Legacy Pro arrives today. I'm standing by my mailbox all day!
I think you are gonna like it. Give it a good warm up
Just ordered legacy pro last Friday. Thanks for the video Will. Looking forward to try use it.
Good choice!
Been waiting for this, especially after I posted a question on the Pickleball Subreddit. Thank you for the review!!
Hope it helped
@@PickleballWill 100%
Great video Will. I already had the 1x 14mm but based on your reviews I pulled the trigger on the Legacy Pro. $136 shipped killer deal.
The Legacy Pro has an intro price of $145. Since they charge $5.50 USPS shipping and collect state sales tax, how did you arrive at $136?
@@voiceofreason9238 it is pretty easy to find a 10% off coupon right now
@@voiceofreason9238Yes, there's a 10% off coupon you can easily find. He also didn't mention tax. For me, total with discount, tax, shipping is $145.
Took your advice and ordered the 14mm crbn 1x and man does it feel amazing! I’m curious to try the 16mm but loving the paddle so far man. Great reviews!
I just got my 14 mm crbn 1x and I agree totally...it is amazing. I have a 16 mm carbon 1x coming.....it's supposed to ship mid Feb
I have both 14mm and 16mm CRBN 1x the 14 ton of power but the 16 is my go to almost same power but more control
I have both 14mm and 16mm CRBN 1x the 14 ton of power but the 16 is my go to almost same power but more control
I have both 14mm and 16mm CRBN 1x the 14 ton of power but the 16 is my go to almost same power but more control
I have both 14mm and 16mm CRBN 1x the 14 ton of power but the 16 is my go to almost same power but more control
I bought the Vantic Pro and its great on edge hits where most paddles die. Must be that newer stiffer frame? Lots of topspin on the serve, from myside they look long, but they dip at the line. Best paddle so far for me. Tried the Yoola Vision but was only 1/2 the paddle of this one! I would of ordered the Legacy but out of stock!
Glad you been enjoying it!
Lovin my Flash 16mm
Looking forward to it. I really enjoy your content.
The Old Bay eyes had me laughing, great vid!
Will, thanks again for keeping us informed about all things paddle related. I just watched a review of the new Ronbus EV1.16, which has some EVA foam in it’s core but is not approved yet as I’m sure you know. Did this paddle fail due to increased deflection like the Diadem Vice?
I’m very interested to see what this year brings regarding paddle technology.
Yes the deflection is insane off that thing!
Thanks for the reply. I don’t really have anyone to talk paddles with. I’m wondering how companies like Ronbus are going to dial down deflection to get them approved and still incorporate some EVA foam. The future of all this stuff is exciting ain’t it?
Have you gotten a chance to play the19mm ProDrive paddle yet? Sounds intriguing. Can’t wait to get your take on it.
Thanks again for all your honest and relevant content.
Bob
Yes I have and have been meaning to make some sort of video on it soon. I like it a lot it’s basically a more powerful diadem Warrior and I love the warrior
@@PickleballWill How do you ever decide which paddle to grab when you’re just going out for some rec play? Speaking of which did you get to play with my friend Cory when you were in Ct?
My Legacy Pro should be arriving any day now. Very curious. I hope it isn’t too poppy.
Don’t think I got a chance to meet Cory since I was their for a very short period of time unfortunately. As for choosing a paddle I typically have a bag with a few paddles. It typically holds a daily driver and some paddles I test or I just enjoy and I just grab the whole bag. Occasionally I will update and cycle the “quiver” but I will play with just about anything when it comes to rec because pb is just that fun
Great video. Have you tried the legacy pro s ? Do you know what the difference is?
Just the shape is different
I find the paddles that have high spin are better at picking up the ball to roll it. Kinda like the sticky rubbers in table tennis!
Another good review Will, thanks... Just an FYI… A little background on carbon fiber. I recently retired from a large military contractor and I worked in their composite center for the last few years. Toray is one of the largest suppliers of CF in the defense industry. It’s used in critical areas of military aircraft for its strength to weight ratio (i.e. it surrounds areas like the fuel tanks, black box locations and pilot seats and cockpit area because it can take major artillery rounds without failing). So, I would expect CF paddles to outlast any other paddles as far as wear is concerned with an added benefit of its weight reduction and strength. The carbon fiber can be woven in many different ways so it looks like Legacy hit on a pattern that is really benefiting their Pro paddle. So, it’s no surprise that other paddle manufacturers are jumping on the CF bandwagon and I would expect to see more.
Just curious if you could speak on the “texture” that we find on the raw carbon fiber paddles that we mostly see in the market. I was told that this texture is essentially just an imprint from the machines that happen to make the composite that is then cut out into the shape of a paddle VS in comparison to say the Gearbox carbon fiber paddles that are weaved during their construction process that doesn’t have the texture?
@@PickleballWill Well, we always specified the type of weave in the material specs like angles of the CF, thickness, density, etc... I'm not familiar enough with the actual machines that are making the paddle material but if you look at the microscope close-up it's a weave, not sure how the machines could imprint that pattern but I may be wrong. Hummmmm, I wonder it Toray would answer the question. I'll send them a note and see what they say.
Just got off the phone with Cris Dickert, Owner of Legacy Pickleball, super nice guy and very open with me. That material was engineered by Chris that way and not stamped on. Composite material is a real art/science with very complex manufacturing with the different layers and adhesives used to make up the face of that paddle. The thermal forming that they used is unique and they deserve a ton of credit for developing this material that's having such a positive impact on the new Legacy Pro CF paddles that hit the market. I'll be ordering my Legacy Pro and soon as I'm cleared to play again. Chris just started a company YT channel and he covers some of the build here, maybe he will get into more details in a future video: ruclips.net/video/VMIm2KCdsos/видео.html
#legacypickleball
Thank you such for posting this review, you're a legend! Definitely feel more confident after purchasing Legacy Pro after listening to your review Will.
The CRBN 1X is a beast of a paddle. Been loving it.
14mm or 16mm?
@@chuntan3130 16 mm. I've used a lot of paddles and this one blew me away. Highly recommend.
Legacy pro air #1! I received mine in 4 days
I heard about new thermoformed paddles through PbStudio's newsletter. Any plans to do an updated comparison video comparing these new paddles to the ones you already mentioned in the video?
Yes will do an updated one just not sure when but it’s in the works
Great analogies along with thoughtful insights. Excellent job reviewing this group of paddles.
Would you take the Vatic pro before the Vatic flash? I just got the flash and so far I love it
Yes I personally would choose the pro over the flash
Hope Vatic Pro solved the grit wear issue or at least a generous warranty.
The big trampoline example for the legacy is perfect compared to chris RPM test. It tested higher than the others. Do you guess thats because the ball is staying on the surface longer like a person jumping on a big trampoline would?
I think its definitely part of the equation. Dwell time, Swing speed(swing weight), Surface friction, technique, all play a function in generating spin potential.
Thanks for the great video, is the Legacy pro code still valid?
It works for the older model but not sure why it’s not working for the new S model. Sorry about that
Thank you, just placed an order 😊
How does the xspak compare to these paddles? I think it's ludicrous to pay over 2 hundo for any paddle
I haven't played with the xpak but ive been told it plays like the previous CRBN paddles so I'm going to take a guess to say its plays very close the the CRBN1x 16mm and the Vatic Pro. I'm sure the xpac performs well enough
i am a 14mm guy just because i like to feel the ball on my paddle....I have the Diadem Icon which is really good but I wanted a bit more pop, I then got the Engage Pursuit which is good for pop but i felt like I wanted more spin, so now I am waiting for my Crbn 1x which I hope takes the pop and spin to another level...great review too and I am subscribed
What’s your thoughts now? I use the icon and want to update to a cf paddle. How did the 14mm turn out?
I need some guidance. I recently moved up to 4.0/ 4.5 level. I’ve been playing with a Pickleball Apes Proline Energy. I feel like I need a bit more power and pop on my shots. There are sooooo many options out there. I love my paddle, and I’m coming from a Tennis background. HELP‼️
Great vid buddy!
Which 16MM paddle had the lowest swing weight (the most headlight)?? Nice video
I’d also like to know this
Vatic Pro has the lowest swing weight, followed very closely by Legacy, than CRBN1x 16
I put tungsten tape on the top of the Vatic Pro and it hits like a brickhouse
How would you compare the power of the legacy pro vs the the Selkirk power air?
Around the same. Maybe a smidge below but the 2 paddles feel and behave completely different
Nice review, would have liked to see Engage Pursuit 6.0’s included also. Thanks
I think the engage pursuit 6.0 is a different class of paddle compared to these
In your opinion what is the best carbon fiber control paddle either thermoformed or not. Price not important
There’s a few I would put in their own tier above the rest. Here are what come to mind in no particular order: Six Zero DBD 16, Vatic Flash 16, Ronbus Pulsar, SLK Halo Control, 006, Gearbox GBX. Some of these might lean into the power side a bit but I would consider most of these either control paddles or all court paddles
Where do you get the edge and grip tape? Love the colors
Amazon, search colored gaffers tape
Edge tape just cosmetic ?
For these yes. It was a way for me to easily find them in my bag since they all look a like
Is the handle shape rounder like Selkirk and Vatic, or rectangular like Crbn 1X and Ronbus?
Which paddle are you asking about?
The Legacy Pro - I should’ve clarified, thanks!
Id say all those paddles feel pretty similar to me but maybe closer to the Vatic if I had to choose
Currently playing the Engage MX Pursuit 6.0 looking to transition to a raw carbon paddle for a bit more spin and pop. Any recommendation on going from the engage a carbon paddle? Thanks!
To be quite honest with you. If you like the Pursuit 6.0 and just looking for more pop I would look at the non 6.0 version that is thinner. After that I would look into the CRBN 1x 16mm and you will notice a significant amount more pop and some spin on drives. If you gotta take your budget into consideration and don’t mind a slightly shorter handle the Vatic Pro is a good option. The 6.zero double black diamond is a decent mid ground between everything and all the paddles I mentioned earlier (pop, feel, spin, budget) good luck
Thanks for the great review Will! I'm leaning towards replacing my Electrum Model E which I have been using for a year with a CRBN 1x 16mm. Based on your comments, sounds like they are similar but with the advantages of the foam injection plus a bit more spin?
I’m just gonna be real with you right now I think any of these paddles would be an upgrade but also, all these paddles are gonna have a bit more deflection/power than your model E. May take an adjustment on resets and drops because the model E is quite “plush” in my opinion
@@PickleballWill thanks!
I believe the core walls of the honeycomb in the Electrum are thicker than all the competitors. Something not talked about in reviews as for differences between manufacturers.
Great comparison video. This doubles rec player has a decision to make based on new information. 😊
Glad it was helpful!
Hey how is the surface of the power air holding up? I saw some videos talking about certain paddles losing a lot of their spin potential relatively fast.
I personally haven’t seen noticeable drop offs but I have heard some people saying they have lost spin quicker than others who also have the paddle. I still think it holds up way better than most other paddles out there
Will, in your opinion, Legacy Pro versus Warrior Edge? in 16mm. Thank you. Also, I am the only person who thinks that First Responder series paddles actually feel better than generic Edge itself?
I'm going to have to go with the Legacy Pro on this one just because of the extra power. Although if you like to reset and drop then the Edge is a strong choice as I did play with the Edge for quite awhile. I haven't played with the first responder series of paddles and feel like I would just gravitate to the original Warrior over them just for the added weight. Original Warrior still a favorite of mine
Any thoughts on elongated vs square for the CRBNx 16mm? Is it completely preference or are there advantages for one vs the other?
Hey Will, appreciate the comparison. Would the Legacy Pro be good for someone just starting out?
Yea man np! I wouldn't recommend it if you are completely new to racket sports
Legacy Pro coming in today 🙌🏼
🙌
I've never played with an elongated paddle, so I'm curious, generally does an elongated paddle have a bigger or smaller sweet spot? Or, is it the same size, but in a different spot?
Unless the hitting surface area of a paddle is substantially larger, the sweetspots of these paddles are usually around the same size but just shifted. Elongated ones have more narrower sweetspots. The traditional shapes have more rounded ones. You kind of have to think about your paddle and where the ball strikes the face in terms of distance from the edges. So if we take a traditional shaped paddle, which is more "circular", the sweet spot would also be more "circular" and wider. This is because the distance from the sweetspot center to the edges are more equal when compared to an elongated paddle. They honestly don't feel that much different to me though. I personally just like the longer reach. Hope that helps!
Great review Will. My question is, the honeycomb core "wall" thickness is what is making the "pop" of the Legacy "feel" more than the others? T700 is the same so other than the cores wall thickness being different, it must be the adhesive used I'm thinking. I just got the revised Vatic Pro 16mm and like the feel and control of it to polish my "soft game".
I'm sure its a combination of the core honeycomb, glue, carbon fiber layers that create the pop that you feel from the Legacy. Whatever it is that they are doing, it def feels different from the rest of the paddles out there. Feels more like an EVA foam paddle to some people.
@@PickleballWill Wonder if "weave" direction of the T700 has something to do with it? I play a VICE and EVA is great for my trashed elbow. I thought that the "injected" foam might be EVA, but found out that it is not.
I highly doubt it’s the pattern on the carbon fiber face that makes it play the way it does. Probably material choices, % used by those materials, and the way it’s constructed
Hey will how would you rank these paddles in terms of sweet spot?
They are all fairly equal in my opinion. If I had to rank them. Vatic, Legacy, Crbn 16, Crbn 14, flash, Hyperion 14
Yeah with the Vatic having a shorter grip it is a little more surface area than the CRBN 1x I put tungsten tape at 2,5,7 and 10 o clock to increase the sweetspot.
Does the Diadem Warrior edge still compete with this group? Or is it not up to snuf?
I think it competes just fine especially if you are a control orientated player. However I don’t think it’s a good value anymore at it’s price point of $175 when other similar or even better paddles are out there at similar or lower price points. I will say that I have probably played my best dialed doubles games in the past 6 months with this paddle
@@PickleballWill What do you recomend that plays soft similar to the warrior edge?
Vision 16, Ronbus R1 16, GBX. If you are interested in the thermoformed paddles 6.zero double black and CRBNx16
@@PickleballWill what paddle(s) are you using now for singles and doubles? daily driver?
@@wednightt mostly the CRBN1x 14 for both and when I’m feeling good the Legacy Pro
Thanks Will. Great content. Once you receive and play test them, would love to see you work the Six Zero review into this comparison, as opposed to a standalone review.
Oh man hahaha i'll see what I can do
@@PickleballWill $$$$$$.....I know the feeling...LOL
I found your power results for the 14mm hyperion interesting. In my personal findings I found that every thermoformed paddle that I have tried hits harder than it. Have not tried the vatic flash tho.
The thermo form overall hits harder and aside from the legacy and CRBNx14 the rest are similar in power to me. I’d probably say I put the Hyperion 14 up there because I’ve had the most time with it and its been modified with weight where as the CRBNx16 and Vatic Pro were stock when I tested them
Great video Will very detailed definitely your best to date. One question I have is the swing weight. I know the 1X has a swing weight of 121 I believe could be 123. How does this rank with the others. Also, it's lighter than the Ben Johns but does it bother anyone else's elbow like the Ben Johns did with a higher swing weight?
Thank you 🙏 I haven't played with the CRBN1x 16 long enough to tell you if it bothers my elbow or not. The 1x has a higher swing weight than the others in the video for sure but not by much when compared to the other 16mm. I think that balance of the CRBN1x, Legacy, Vatic Pro are pretty much perfect for all court play
CRBN 1x 16mm slightly head heavy compared to Vatic which is more even balanced
what are the paddles closest to the feeling of the ben johns hyperion 16 mm cfs ? I'm trying to find a replacement, I really enjoy the handle, head shape, the weight (I also add lead get get it solid feeling at the throat), and I love the grit, it sucks that it wears down. I'm not trying to replace it every 3 -4 months.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but all these paddles wear down eventually and 3-4 months sounds pretty typical for most avid players. As for paddles closest to the BJ Hyperion 16...shoot thats kinda tough to say since I do think it def has its own unique feel, balance, and attributes. Maybe a Vatic Flash 16mm with a bit of extra weight added to the top of the paddle is my first thought.
What kind of edge tape do you use?
Colored Gaffers tape. That power air still doing you good? 😁
@@PickleballWill For sure! I tried my buddys crbn 1x 16mm. Its a great paddle! Still sticking with the power air for now though
Good luck out there my guy
You need to do a review of the top performing thermo formed power paddles whoch should not only include the Legacy, CRBN 1X, and Vatic Pro V7, but also include the Joola and the Six Zero Black Diamond.
Yea I need to do an update on all these
How does these compare to your power air!?
Also wondering how the power air epic rates. Have you used the power air epic? And if so how does it’s power compare to the CRBN 1x?
I’d say they are all pretty comparable in power. The main difference is the feel that these new paddles have compared to the power air. They still feel controllable in the kitchen when dinking and that may be due to the sound. Haven’t played with the epic Power Air so can’t speak in that
Hi Will, I have problem with blocking a hard drive from transition zone. Ball always pop too high with my CRBN 1x 14mm. Do you think Legacy Pro or CRBN 1x 16mm can help me? Which one? Or I just have to overcome the extra pop from 14mm? 😂
loosen your grip
The Legacy pro isn't gonna help you haha maybe a CRBN 16. loosen that grip, try to stand semi open and use the weight transfer from the leading foot to the backfoot to absorb pace
@@PickleballWill is it noticeable improvement on control & reset on 1x 16mm compare to 1x 14mm?
Another great review with thoughtful insight and perspective.
My Legacy Pro arrives today. I am excited to give it a try. I imagine it may take me a while to adjust to it.
let us know your thoughts!
Good luck and have fun out there!
My first impressions of my new Legacy Pro-
I received my Legacy Pro yesterday and took it to our local outdoor courts to hit some balls with a friend. Today I played my regular indoor games with my Monday, Wednesday, Friday in group.
The more I played with it the more I liked it. I like the pop and power. I liked the amount of spin. I liked the amount of control. It felt better with each game.
THANKS LEGACY PRO AND CHRIS DICKERT!
I think its a great paddle at an extremely attractive price.
Is the CRBN 1x 16mm feel like the Hyperion 16 mm? I’m curious cause I have a Hyperion and I love it but it’s so top heavy and affects my hand speed at the kitchen. Looking to get a similar paddle but lighter for faster hands.
Yes it’s like it but less top heavy. It’s a bit firmer on contact and you may have a bit of an adjustment on resets but I would say they are very similar imho
@@PickleballWill ok gotcha, thanks so much Will 🤙🏻
The Hyperion will feel softer due to the 2 piece construction. The one thing about the one piece carbon paddles is they do feel a little stiffer compared to others.
Greate review on a list of qualiity paddles! Have you made a decision on what your main paddle will be yet? Or maybe you have a runner up? The legacy pro sounds very promising, do you like it more than your power air?
Def like Legacy more than the power air. I’d say CRBN1x 16 is a very close runner up
I do wish all reviewers would mention warranty periods and how to use it. Way too many 6 mo and shorter warranties out there.
I'll try adding that next time
Why is the Legacy Pro your personal favorite? I saw that in text on this video. I would really like to know.
It's perfect for me personally. It has the power i've been searching for without sacrificing the touch and type of control I like. I have been trying to make things work with the Selkirk Power Air for the last few months and just couldn't. The Hyperion 14mm has been a very close contender but I still found myself desiring more putaway power. My only knock on the Legacy was that I wish it was just a bit longer in the handle for my 2 handed backhand.
@@PickleballWill I believe the Legacy Pro will be a better fit for my style of play also. I am coming from a Gearbox CX11 control and a CRBN 13mm and look forward to getting the Legacy paddle. Thank you for your testing and reviews! They are very helpful.
@PickleballWill I also believe it is helpful to have your perspective along with what Chris says. He is more of a Selkirk 003 guy, while you are more of a Power Air guy. Having perspectives from both of you is perfect because it helps me to think through my options more accurately, I believe.
Frankly if the 003 was closer to 8 0z and more head heavy it will blow most current paddles away IMO
how do i demo the new CRBN paddles?
CRBN has a 30 day no question return policy to try them out. I'm an ambassador. Let me know if you'd like a discount
@@firebot007 i would love a discount
@@firebot007 also, what is required to become an ambassador?
PM me for a code
Vatic is looking for ambassadors
Waiting for my Legacy Pro which they have begun to ship out. $145 ($130) with the discount code is a steal particularly since it is expected to go up to $170 later.
It’s like Christmas season out there for folks waiting haha
Is the .2” handle length difference between the Legacy Pro and the Crbn noticeable? I’m currently use the Selkirk V2 Mach 6 and like a longer handle. Great video, thanks for doing these awesome, in-depth reviews!
Personally for me when I do my two hand backhand I have the index finger of my left hand sticking up on the back side of the paddle and with this method I can't tell the difference between the two handle lengths. However when I put both my hands on just the handle, I do feel the taper of the shorter handle paddle digging more into the space between my thumb and index finger.
Depends on how big your hands are haha. Its not so much of a difference for me but if i had a choice i would go with a longer handle. I'm not in love with having my left hand choked up on the handle that much and my finger on the face of the paddle but its not the end of the world. This is probably also in my head but i feel like the longer handle paddles swing faster
Great video on some comparisons we wanted to see!! Thanks will!
Hey, based on the demand for more paddle review videos, what do you think will happen? Do you think more Pickleball RUclipsrs will emerge to film that demand? This would be an interesting topic for a future podcast (your opinion on how large the demand for paddle review videos really is compared to the supply of quality RUclips review videos, and how much more space there likely is for more RUclipsrs to emerge before that demand you are seeing would be met).
I think there is still plenty of room in the space and different angles. I watch multiple channels that review the same cameras, tech, events, edc, and they are all successful and unique. Keep a look out on a future pod because we actually do have an episode on content creation later this month with ThatPickleballGuy, Kyle Koszuta
Will, when are you planning to have a review of the SixZero Black Diamond and Double Black Diamond?
On these Paddle reviews I think it is increasingly become relevant and important to analyze how the manufacturers are using grit on the face. To pay premium prices for premium paddles only to have the grit wear off fairly quickly is a ripoff.
Thank you.
Should be coming out end of next week, although I’m not knowledgeable enough to explain the affects of these much more “finer” surfaces like on the legacy and six zero on spin. If more companies do it and get really good results it will be safe to say these new surfaces are superior when it comes to spin potential
I’ve been using a JOOLA Hyperion 14MM for a while, I bought the CRBN 1X 14MM and honestly didn’t like it. It was too poppy, and found it hard to adjust. Might buy a 16MM to see if I like it, but I still swear by my Joola. I ordered a Joola Solaire yesterday so I’m interested to see how that is
Nice I’d imagine you would like the 16mm CRBNx but if the Hyperion 14 still works ain’t gotta change it, it’s still a really solid paddle. Solaire imho is almost the same to me at Hyperion 14mm
Regular carbon 1 would be the one touch. Having said that, I bout a Grvn 16h because I love the whip I get with the longer handle
love my 16h and 13h from GRUVN and GRUVN has the only stock grips i wouldn't put an overgrip on
@@PickleballWill
You should do a vid on them
Yea it’s in the works
Great points on the spin situation. More than I'll probably ever need. I have a Grvn 16h and an Engage pursuit mx 6.0 and the spin I get on the textured graphite Engage is very similar and more than enough to spin the ball at will
Exactly the type of review I was looking for on these, thanks! I think I have settled on the CRBN 1x 14mm for myself, but a couple quick thoughts:
1. I think spin numbers are overrated, while swing weight is underrated. Spin matters a lot while playing, but like you mentioned, exact rpm numbers do not matter as much as high/mid/low tier placement. Swing weight on the other hand, seems overlooked by many but can drastically change the overall feel of a paddle while playing, especially for people with certain playstyles.
2. I also think we might be able to divide the categories of power and control at least one step further, not sure on the best names but maybe something like penetration/plough-through and striking for the power category and forgiveness and placement for the control category. Having only the two categories of power and control will always leave some types of paddles potentially misplaced. For instance is the Ben Johns Hyperion a control paddle? Well sort of, but its swing/static weight actually give it great penetration on drives and serves. Is the Vatic Flash a power paddle? Not really on drives, but that 14mm pop and quick handling swing weight would give it high marks on striking from the kitchen line.
Yes agreed many factors to consider moving forward for my reviews. Thanks for the feedback!
Good stuff
Let him cook
Anyone know the difference btwn the LP and the LP - S
Shape. S is square and not elongated
TY
Length of paddle contributes a good percentage to perceived power.
Was hoping gruvn would be in there but I guess it's not as popular
Gruvn will be getting its own review sometime in the future. I still recommend the Gruvns quite a bit
What key differences do you feel between the Vatic and Crbn?
I own both they hit and feel very similar. CRBN 1x and Vatic V7. The 16mm Flash will be a Joola Hyperion slayer
@@scottfrancis13 Which one is your first choice then?
Depends on your price point. Got the 16mm 1x in Friday and the spin is ridiculous especially on serves my drives were dipping hard out of the air. Haven’t gotten that with another paddle. The CRBN 1x and Vatic feel similar with the Vatic maybe feeling a little softer. Spin on the Vatic was a little less than CRBN 1x but only slightly. Honestly for the money the Vatic Pro is a heck of a deal. If money not an issue I would get the CRBN 1x 16 as it felt to me to be a superior surface. Havent hit the Legacy Pro but reviews say has too much pop. Power is good ( I generate a lot of it)but only if its controllable. Why I ditched my power Air Invikta.
I’m waiting on the 16 mm Vatic Flash it sounds like will be a cheaper better made Hyperion
I haven’t hit the 16mm Vatic Flash yet as it’s still waiting to be shippes
Yo but outta all these.... which one are you loyal to (your daily driver)?
The Legacy
@@PickleballWill Legacy > Carbon 1x (14mm)
Legacy > Carbon 1x (16mm)
Legacy > Carbon 1x 14
Legacy = Carbon 1x 16 (this is preference dependent imho. Both are great all around but Legacy leans power and CRBNx 16 leans control)
@@PickleballWill Off topic. Do you add lead tape to any of your paddles? If so, which ones and where do you add them? You're currently using the Legacy Pro, so if you put lead tape, where?
No lead tape on the legacy right now. If I do add lead it’s typically around 9-3 o’clock spots
I stopped after Best Power and Most Spin. The Legacy Pro is within ten bucks as the least expensive. That's a no brainer for me.
Just fascinating that there are similarities between these paddles in their characteristics and the prizes range so far……….
I ordered a Legacy Pro because of the video, but just cancelled the order after 7 weeks of long waiting.
Sorry to hear that hope you find something else that works for ya!
Will, which would you choose between the Legacy Pro and the upcoming Gearbox GBX?
Thank you.
Been using a Joola 14 Swift, and hadn't thought about changing, then hearing all this chatter about these other paddles and I am now that guy in the Meme walking with his girl and looking back at the other girl.
it's all so complicated...
Hahaha 🤣 to be quite honest unless the swift is on its last legs and you are needing a replacement you don’t really need to be switching
@@PickleballWill Tonight me and Swifty were back in love, and moving forward. it was a good night.
Nice review! Although the background music is super distracting. 🥴
You forgot to color 12:43 to 12:46 😁✌🏽
Im nitpicking. Hahahaha! Great review, Will! Thanks for making this video!
Miss the jokes, tho 😊😁
hahaha i noticed it way too late and was too sick this week to toss in the jokes. appreciate you though! 🙏
@@PickleballWill oooh. Get well soon, man! I prayed for you 🙏🏽
Salamat
@@PickleballWill eyyyy!!! Hitting me with tagalog words! Nice! Walang anuman 😊😁
@@theBattungFamily haha it’s one of the few words I know
Awesome, thanks.
I'd like to hear choices in this context as well:
your pick from this group to use for your next tournament for singles, for doubles, and then if you had to pick 1 to use in both singles and doubles. You kinda touched on the both category with your best all court choice it sounds like.
Hey yes will def do that in the future for my personal picks. I am of course trying to not let my personal choice of paddle to affect yours and others. If I had to pick just one paddle it would be the Legacy Pro for both singles and doubles. The CRBN1x 16mm would be a very close contender for 2nd in doubles and the CRBN1x 14mm would be a close contender for 2nd in singles. But overall for me the Legacy Pro is best choice from what I am looking for and how I play
@@PickleballWill yeah makes sense. Keep up the good work!
My take on influence is if you provide your personal reasons how it fits your play style maybe that helps reduce negative influence. People will either hear how their style is different so doesn’t make sense to pick the same or see their style is similar to some degree and find it useful which you kinda included already with ‘if hand speed is important to you’ type of statements which are great.
People will still blindly copy picks though so I understand if you hold back on some info.
I found it interesting though because from what I heard in this vid I would’ve guessed your choice for the both category would been the 1x 16mm so that makes me more curious about your pick as it pertains to your style.
To clarify in case it wasn’t clear, the pick choice I was talking about was if you could pick more than one so you have one for doubles and singles, and then if you could only pick one for both.
I hear yah thanks for the feedback will def consider this for reviews moving forward! For me I need extra power, I’m a little guy haha and I want as much power as possible without sacrificing the amount/kind of control I like. So Legacy Pro is the one. Also, even though I get sent many of these paddles for free I still factor price and what I would have to pay in my decisions when choosing a paddle. The CRBNx you see here was actually bought with my own money just so I can “feel” the burn in my wallet and helps me better assess the paddles 😆 so this is another reason I chose the Legacy
@@PickleballWill smol but big pickleball willpower
I feel like paddles are like iPhones….I came from the slk line. Great stater paddle. Now I have the CRBN 1x 14mm. Its like when I jumped from iPhone 5 to X. Massive improvement but I would notice if I was getting a new upgrade every year!
I'm surprised you didn't review the Six Zero paddles in this group - any reason why you didn't? I'd be interested to hear how they compare.
At 0:41 I explain that I don’t have them yet and still waiting for them
Ok fine I’ll get a legacy pro
Who is that little kid everyone is playing with in your b-roll? He is pretty good.
He's a legend that only appears when great evil threatens the lands
@@PickleballWill Haha, glad you have a good sense of humor. Jokes aside, thanks for the videos and podcast. They are great. Hope this thing blows up for you.