Dune: Imperium - We Were Wrong?
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Sometimes, we get things wrong. Well, Tom does. In this absolutely massive video, Tom and Matt dive into the design of Dune: Imperium - and how it’s grown and evolved since we last covered it in 2021. We also review the latest (and perhaps greatest) version of the game to date: Dune: Imperium - Uprising. Enjoy!
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0:00 Dune: Imperium Retrospective
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13:23 Dune: Imperium - Rise of Ix
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16:56 Dune: Imperium - Immortality
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19:04 Dune: Imperium - Uprising
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Pear is the mind killer
Is that pronounced pear or pear?
chefs kiss
Wish I could like this twice
@@joshuaphillips4604 You got it right with pear.
I must not pear.
I'm glad you came clean, guys. It takes some brave chappies to say, 'My take was crappie, I need a slappie, Dune Imperium's a smashie, I take it all backie.' And that you did. Verbatim.
@@dannylutz194Even base D:I alone is very good. SUSD were wrong, deal with it. They did.
True, but they also said 2 was one of the bettter player count. I mean, they are entitled to their opinion...
@@alexisfougeres6549Yea they really missed on the player count there. Also Rise of Ix is widely considered to be the better expansion. And I've never heard anyone criticize the endgame yet - if anything it gets praised for how tight of a race it is.
@@mrTannu666 True. Early game is very chess like, where you can follow everyones moves, plan for 2-3 first rounds, prepare openings and responds to other players actions. And end game is almost always tight and emotional, very rarely only one player is the only one threatening to end the game, and will they be able to this round? I agree however, that the mid game gets a bit muddy, either everyone takes over their own niche, like conflict, choam track, buying spice must flow etc. or it becomes frustrating struggle where mentioned in the video turn order becomes too important.
@@Marrkix Yes turn order can sometimes shut you down from important stuff like Highliner in T3 combat or getting Swordmaster/High Council etc. However since the turn order is set from the start of the game and can not be manipulated you just have to take it into account and plan accordingly. If you are not early in the turn order on round(s) 7/8 then you should not aim for Highliner to win T3 combats and go for a different strategy.
The newest standalone expansion Uprising also addresses the issue somewhat by adding the Spies mechanic so you can guarantee access to important places in the future.
The genius of this game is the tension between the worker placement aspect (I wanna go first so I can get to the good spots!) and the bidding aspect of the combat (I wanna go last so I can see what everyone else bid before I commit!). When you throw in the uncertainty around not knowing if your opponents even have the cards to access the spaces you want to get to and the fact that the number of troops committed is only one of three possible factors contributing to their combat strength, it's just this incredibly heady decision space.
And Intrigue Cards make your opponents even more unpredictable. I mean these cards basically allow you to break the games rules in some instances.
Little side note on the expansions: lower right hand corner of cards has dots for the source. Blank for OG Dune Imperium, two for Ix, three for Immortality, and then one for Uprising.
I'm only a few minutes in, but Benjamin Gesserit absolutely floored me. Kudos to whoever wrote that
RIP Tiny Tom. You died as you lived. Tiny.
The bit with tiny tom was completely insane!! Please never stop making videos!!
I always like when Pip shows up, even if it's just in Tom's hypothetical recap narration.
One thing I love about the tight 4 player worker placement battle is that it makes going for a third worker/agent less necessary. Sure, you get a third agent, but is any third space worth getting (at the expense of losing the bottom/reveal effect of another card)? Yes, it’s still usually a good thing to get a third worker. But unlike many worker placements, it’s definitely not necessary to win.
This is a good example of how presumptions about a "solved" / "best" strategy bite people in the ass and cause them to misevaluate entire mechanics and games. Popular wisdom about racing to the swordmaster got locked in by early reviews and videos based mostly on the 2 and 3 player game. Then ppl tried applying that strategy to 4 players and complained worker placement was too tight. Was it really? Or were you just trying to force a strategy to work?
Ie if devs had wanted swordmaster to be part of every game they'd have built it in. Like, make it so everyone's swordmaster unlocks at the halfway point. They didn't, they left it optional. That wasn't just a skill tester like "are you a smarty pants swordmaster buyer, or a big dummy?", it was to allow the players to control the worker placement.
The baseball transition really hit the puck into the basket. 😂
You clearly don’t have a clue about Curling!
A couple of years ago, there was the D&D themed deck builder / zone control game of Tyrants of the Underdark that was overlooked by many but it was one I enjoyed for similar reasons to why I also enjoy Dune Imperium. DI has lots more going on with how those workers get placed, but the range of faction decks that generated victory points, soldiers to occupy zones worth points, and even powerful cards that you retired from your hand into a secret stash where they were worth more points but with the tension of how much utility would they have still in your hand. It’s still a game I regularly return to, and as with Dune Imperium, lots of geeking out about the lore of the cards and characters within.
Also some really cool fan-made decks to pump it up a bit more!
@@davetalbert8387 where can i find these fan made decks?
This video is what drinking the Water of Life feels like 10/10
Uisce Beatha ftw :)
The b-roll at 6:42 is destroying me
Thank you for the worm cameo. It was worth the wait
It made me feel worm all over!
I think you guys are Dune a great job
They know this franchise from Melange time ago.
been playing this game every month since I got it 2 years ago. Glad to see its vibin with my favorite reviewers
I do love a sensitive bromance. The eye contact in the closing is luscious. Def felt third wheel there, but couldn't look away. ❤
Really happy this review came out the same day that the digital version launched on Steam, Android and iOS. Feels fitting
This was absolutely one of the funniest videos you've put out in years, some of the cool ghost energy being channelled here works absolutely brilliantly
Worm Matt! All is well in the Dune Universe. Bless the Matt and his water.
I was really afraid that we were gonna miss out on worm Matt (Wormatt?) this time so picture my relief when his silly smile appeared on screen. That is the fan service we need!
@@Thelocalpsychopath Shai-Mattud? Or Matt-Hulud?
I especially loved the mention of "Arctic Scavengers" which introduced those mechanisms of holding cards to reveal for comparison and prizes, ala poker.
That speck of dust at 17:47 really had me questioning my sanity for a second there.
The confidence on your face after the Benjamin Gesserit joke has the exact same energy as Hannibal Buress doing his Morpheus Rap. I refuse to explain myself in this.
Glad you've come round to Dune Imperium. I love both expansions and wont play without both!
If someone kidnapped your family, would you play just the base game? Or are your morals on this matter unimpeachable?
So glad you finally landed that dream sponsorship deal from Timothy's Chalomay.
For those wondering if they had changed their mind about Hansa Teutonica, Tom confirmed on Reddit it’s not the case: “we have not! it's really good. i didn't know what to put on the screen because we recorded that line as b-roll so i just had some fun in Fusion hahaha”
Came into the comments for that exact thing. I would have been pretty shocked if they had turned around on Hansa teutonica
This makes me happy (not because I’ve ever played Hansa or have an opinion on it as a game). I just really love that video
@@WesleyHThompson I got the game on the back of the review, it's every bit as good as Quinns said. Most aggressive Euro I have and my friends loved it. If you can get it cheap it's worth a go, although it is a bit brown
@@WesleyHThompsonU should totally play it lol, that video was bang on, it’s genuinely amazing.
Interesting conclusion on Uprising. We found the spies and double worm rewards resulted in greater abundance and less tight gameplay
I think, that out of all your videos, i enjoyed this the most. Also, admitting, that your opinion has changed is something that we need more of.
Keep this awesome work up guys, can't wait for your future content!
Another thing about Uprising is that you can play it with Rise of Ix and Immortality, and it is an absolute blast.
I was hoping they'd talk a bit about how they feel about the expansions on top of Uprising, and if they worked better or worse. But I guess they probably haven't played those combinations enough to say.
Yep, the only way I play the game. It mitigates the worm strategy a bit which seems to be an area of debate on BGG.
@@LeeKenshin7 which expansion would you say mitigates the worm strategy the most?
@@bobibgg I've only ever played with both expansions but if I had to choose, I would say Rise of Ix. It dilutes the imperium row with Ix cards. Also, with Ix, people complain about the shipping track being OP then with Uprising, people complain about the worm strategy being OP. Why not give them both to fight over? Funny though that the last game we played, the player who employed neither strategy won.
I still wish someone would explain how they feel about using uprising with the expansions. Does it mess up the spy stuff? Is uprising better in its own? Do you prefer base uprising or the base dune with expansions? Etc.
This was needed outside the podcast. Lots of reviewers choked on this.
I’m so glad you guys did enough spice to get a fresh look with the Eyes of Ibad! Cheers!
I've been watching Dune Imperium videos all week! (Starting with your original review) This is such a beautiful treat :D
What I like about Rise of Ix is that it fixes the sad situation of the base game where you're swimming in Solari and have nothing to do with it.
I like the mechanism in uprising where you can go to the high council multiple times
Just played Dune : Imperium - Uprising...for the first time last night. Loved it!
I'll add that my main criticism, having had to teach it, is that if you have new players that aren't familiar with the source material, a lot of the little rules that are added in for theme can make the teach a bit messy and "Cones of Dunshire"-y. Like how you can't bring worms to a battle until the shield wall token is removed if the combat card references one of the city spaces...I think it's all a masterful joining of theme and rules because I love the lore, but that was my observation.
People who haven't read Dune are the problem.
Imagine! Not. Reading. Dune.
There is a symbol on the card which represents the worm with an ❌ over it. There's no need for new players to remember which cards these are
@@stefanopaolini1345Yea it's well represented visually and I've not had problems with anyone not understanding it. Also some people were complaining that the original game wasn't thematic enough.
Finally busted out my copy of Dune for the first game setup yesterday. Nearly spit out my coffee when he got to the silica gel bag bounty. NO LIES DETECTED. I have a pile of silica gel bags sitting in the box right now.
This was an absolute joy guys! Stuffed full of so many cheesy jokes. I loved every minute of it.
You guys had me rolling when you fuzzed out 'the worm'
This review is like a fever dream with occasional B-roll of a board game.
That's Shut up and sit down 😂
Was just watching your Undaunted review where Quinns "meh'd" Imperium and i about lost my damn mind. You know what Quinns?! YOU sit down and shut up sir, and let me talk to you a few hours about our Kwisatz Haderach, Dune Imperium. This video is redemption... but i still need to try undaunted
Damn, you guys really sold uprising. It looks amazing.
I may not always agree with you guys, but you guys always try to be fair and ALWAYS have fun reviewing board games and I love that.
Personally my favourite Dune game is Dune 2019 made by GF9.
Thank you for introducing me to chairdog. I read the first Dune book and understood that the books got a little silly. This is a great example.
we finally get an answer to Brad Pitt's "what's in the box?!"
it's "a game." So, that's nice.
Nah it’s Frosted Flakes
As ever, love the video. Must say I do feel a bit weird about Uprising tbh - I got Base Dune + Ix and now it feels like a ‘remake’ that everyone says is better has come out only a few months later! 😅 doesn’t feel great imo.
We love uprising but will be going back to DI with Ix regularly as it's a satisfying yet different experience.
Same! This sort of behavior makes me want to purposefully wait a while after a game is released to make sure the version I'm buying isn't a game in late-stage beta. It doesn't matter how they name it; it's a revision of the original base game. The only consolation I get out of this is the fact that Uprising would be harder to teach to my gaming group, as the original Dune: Imperium was already heavier than they had expected. My group also likes engine-builders, so the satisfaction of sitting on hoards of resources later in the game would be absent.
If I didn't already own Dune: Imperium, I would have absolutely bought Uprising, but since I already own the original, I really can't justify this board game series taking up any more space than it already has. I'd rather my money go to a new game that's different enough for a new experience. There are MANY games out there that have the same complexity and acclaim that this game has.
Wow guys. I still miss seeing Quinns more often, but you guys have elevated the humor and production of these videos to new highs. Not enough board game videos that have this much fun now. Great work!
I want “Where thid” on a mug immediately
Uprising fixed pretty much all of my frustrations with the original game! God, Dune makes me feel things babyyyy
I really appreciate this video. Nice to see the crew revisiting a review that maybe didn't hold the test of time. In that vein, I'd love to see Quinns revisit Wingspan. I know one of his major complaints for the base game was the lack of bird representation from around the globe. With all of the expansions Stonemaier has added, I think they have done a fantastic job curating a substantial collection of the bird species that occupy our planet (that being said, Africa is WAY overdue). I also think the Oceania expansion in particular did a very good job of rebalancing the player boards and the bird feeder.
Always love the vids regardless if I agree with the opinions or not! Fantastic work as always!
Speaking of games that need a revisit. I'd like to hear their opinion on Terraforming Mars. With expansions and more than 2 players.
We have the original two expansions in our group and always come back to the base game. Uprising has just arrived so we're excited to see what it's got on offer esp for more than 4 players.
After 30+ years of gaming I can say that Dune Imperium with both expansions is the greatest game ive ever played. Its literally the most tense experience. Every game I start sweating like a nerd.
I agree, 30+ years of boardgaming, this is the best game i ever played. This is a game for 4 players and you should to play with expansion Rise of Ix.
@@sirgore7677How do you guys deal with the part of the community who thinks GF9's Dune is the better version of the Dune boardgame? I personally think the comparison is awkward in the first place because the two experiences are almost profoundly divergent in what the gameplay offers.
But moreso, I see them both having a space to occupy in the board game space because each of the two games serves a different player count. I am so happy I can play D:I solo, but I could never do that with GF9's version (the latter of which lists 6 players as the recommended setup). Thank you both for your time; I really want to know what boardgame veterans with 30+ years of experience think!
thank you for including subtitles!
“It is by pear alone I set my mind in motion. It is by juice of pear thoughts acquire speed, lips acquire stains, stains become the warning… It is by pear alone I set my mind in motion…”
Don’t listen to Tom. Rise of ix is the best expansion. He will change his mind.
Easily your best video in the past six months. Thank you.
This channel is becoming more and more unhinged and I'm here for it.
Your channel was one of the first channels I found when I started getting into board games. I love Dune, the books the new movies, it’s such an amazing world. I knew I wanted to get a Dune game so when I saw your Imperium is shit and the 80s one is gold I listened and got the 80s one. It was maybe my 3rd game I ever bought. I’ve played it once… not really my taste and I can never get people to play it with me. A year or so later I finally got Imperium…. It is by far my favourite game I have ever played. Glad you guys came around on it!
I would also advocate Matt's review of TI4's expansion Prophecy of Kings was also similarly rushed and wasn't given a fair chance! It balances the base game sooo much, you don't find many other game expansions that do (or publishers that loyally push updates and errata for their games years later)
Another classic from Tiny Tom and Knotty Pickle
good job! Thanks for coming back and reviewing it.
I disagree that Uprising is no more complex than the original. Uprising IS more complex. A lot of people will prefer it as a game, but it's a somewhat more complex game -- more mechanics, slightly longer teach. A lot of hardcore games will prefer Uprising -- I actually prefer more streamlined games, so I prefer the original Imperium. That being said, they're both excellent board games.
The strategy might be more complex by a smidge, but the only thing is really adds in terms of complexity is spies, and the objective cards. Which is a bit more rules by it’s like 4 additional rules
I bought this game after your first review because I love dune and thought I would give it a try anway. I ended up loving the game and I am so glad to see that you guys have come around on it.
ah im glad you swung back around as i got all the OG imperium and primarily play it solo... and its fantastic, pretty sure im not going to bother with uprising but admittedly didn't know much about it
just seemed like the same game
its a similar game, but way better balanced. you get to make a lot of tight choices that make the available cards sing, and there are multiple paths to victory. I find myself watching the other player's resources very carefully.
There are a couple of OP cards, but getting them means pivoting quickly to land them, at the cost of losing advantages elsewhere.
I just bought Dune Imperium. I wish I understood that this was more of a second edition, rather than what I thought it was, an expansion.
You guys are my favorite board game reviewers. Thanks for making another great video!
Uprising has been my favorite board game since it released in November! Just played it earlier today!
23:06 Tom is a child and I very much appreciate that
Very happy to see all the new cards in this video. I love chairdog
“The mystery of the pear isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.”
“There is no escape-we pay for the reviews of our ancestors.”
Wow. You guys literally add crack to your soft drinks to make people keep coming back. (By that, I mean focus music for ADD types subtly playing in the background). Genius
Thanks for this review as this pushed me into buying the game. I love the original and it is the only game I pimped with all deluxe components that can be found on Etsy, so I was very confused when uprising was announced. Finally bought it and played it last night and can only agree that it is better in every way. Time to transfer my blinged out bits to the new version!
I only have the base game, but I love the game best at 4!
Lolz, I am laughing and grinning throughout the video.. Thanks for making my Good Day into a Great Day..
SUSD is slowly merging into the Cool Ghosts universe and I am all for it.
I was skeptical about Uprising but its really an amazing refresh of the core game.
I’m in love with the Dune Imperium games! Uprising is my favorite by far.
this is what my saturday needed. two british men in mustard yellow telling me about board game
so the top 100 games thing is done annually, right? cant wait for game no.99 next february.
I enjoyed this review almost as much as playing Dune Imperium Uprising for the first time
I've been waiting so long for this re-review. I so rarely disagreed so much with SU&SD.
I only wish Quinns had been able to appear here for his own mea culpa, which I'm sure is still forthcoming...
Thank you for the review :)! Always a lot of fun ^^
Great video!!!
Now, Matt and Tom need to revisit Prophecy of Kibgs, and schedule a game with Space Cats Peace Turtles :-O
What if they just called "Dune: Imperium: Uprising" something like, oh.. I dunno... "Dune II"?
(Seemed to work for the greatest RTS game of the 90s!)
Dune II was fun and all, but for being the first RTS it was a bit clunky. The lack of multiplayer is also a negative. And, it just fails to compete for greatest RTS game of the 90s when Starcraft was released in the 90s.
Excellent review once again, lads! I ended up tossing the original and expansions in favor of Uprising, and all of your points here echo my own precisely.
As an aside I’ll be seeeing LCD Soundsystem this summer. I always get a kick out of your poster :)
being broke it often means that i have to just take your words on great looking games but this is a rare instance that i have played a lot of BOTH games you're talking about! i loved watching this as i felt Matt in the OG video was defending his position, but this is just a wholesome video of love for the game that i love too! :')
i love Dune The Desert Planet Arrakis Uprising!
Cracking video folks -- hugely entertaining :)
Interesting review. We love IX as we found prevented a frequent issue of not having anything fun to do with poor card draft. We dont really find Immortality that good, especially the scarab board, which we feel is more incidental than actively used.
We do love the game overall, even if the board looks so trash 🤭
I agree! Original Dune: Imperium with only Rise of Ix is our favorite way of playing
@@eXyliad Interesting! I agree that IX is the more consistently impactful expansion, to the point where going back to the base game can feel downright underwhelming. (I still do, but only to introduce new players to Imperium)
That being said, I adore immortality. It adds a level of whimsy and creativity that neither the base or IX can touch. It took multiple games to for me to have success via the new mechanics, of course the known strategies will be more visible and reliable… at first. Then I was ripping off insane wins with dynamic graft based decks, and more importantly having a genuine blast experimenting
As someone who has played all permutations of imperium, IX, and Immortality scores of times, both expansions at once is far and away my favorite setup. I hope you give immortality another chance at some point.
I haven’t touched uprising, but plan to when I get an opportunity, if only for the 6 player mode bc my group would love that
I do greatly appreciate the idea that a Dune game needs to be extremely dry.
Ah the grande worker. Always saved for the expansion
hey, there sure were a lot of hilarious saucy jokes in this one!! here i thought this was a family show :P
3:11 the way I wheezed and laughed…
Chairdogs
In the Dune universe, the object and species known as chairdogs were first mentioned in Heretics of Dune.
Described in more detail in Whipping Star, these were bio-engineered dogs shaped into chairs. They were trained to massage the people who sat in them, similar to modern-day vibrating massage chairs, except without needing electricity or computerization.
I find Base+Ix is the best experience (with the Epic variant if you're nasty). While the shipping track is powerful once you've played with Ix some more you'll realise that you can easily win without interacting with it at all. Especially if the other three players are fighting over it.
WHOA keep growing that hair out, Tom. Giving me Ryan Gosling vibes!
Wow you guys made me understand what types of games I like. Dune Imperium and Undaunted are two of my favorites, but I generally get bored with deck builders or LCGs. I think it’s that you get to make plans, see your plans get frustrated, then have to adapt to what’s available.
So what other games are like that? Is John Company like that?
That's really interesting that you say that you get bored with deckbuilders because D:I is combined deckbuilding and worker placement. I recently made a similar observation that the genres that I thought I disliked were much less disliked if they were mixed in with another preferred genre! Don't know about John Company, D:I is the most complex board game I've played so far. I think John Company is way higher in complexity (and in playtime).
@@pnpgutterfoldyeah I don’t enjoy having to meticulously craft the most optimized deck. That feels like more work than is fun for me personally. I just want to sit down and play without much prep beforehand. Same with a lot of pure worker placements: once you understand the optimal strategy then the game is no longer interesting to me. That’s what I like about D:I - there are so many “optimal” strategies depending on what others are doing and what cards are in the Imperial Row. So maybe I’m just saying I prefer card drafting to deck builders like LOTR The Card Game. I have LOTRTCG, I can see why so many love it, it’s just not my favorite personally.
Regarding John Company: complexity is fine as long as it has mechanics that are engaging for me personally. Plus I like what that company is doing with their games and their production value is top notch
SUCHACLEVER BOY CHRISTMAS FOR TOM!
Christmas for Tom!
The Silica Gel must flow! 👿
Lol I thought Uprising was an expansion! Y'all got me feeling bad I just got Dune Imperium and Rise of Ix is gonna be on my doorstep in a few hours!
Very much disagree on the expansion thoughts. Immortality is fine, but is a kind of "take it or leave it" expansion. It is fun, but every time I play it, I do wonder if the added complexity is even worth it. Especially because I always get a ton of questions during the game about the new icons even after explaning them.
Ix on the other hand is what makes the game great and I don't even want to play the game without it. The base game quickly gets into a pretty stale loop of "Get spice->Sell spice for money->use money for upgrades". It gets tedius fast, but IX fixes that issue and makes every game feel way more unique.