I wanna give a big shout out to my good friend who helped me out this week, providing a voice for the exile. She suggested I do something and I decided I will in a few days. This video almost didn't make it out for today. I was having a lot of trouble rendering it. I think my PC just couldn't handle some of the video editing trickery I was trying to do in this one. So unfortunately I had to scale it back. No big loss, it's just unfortunate. Oh well.
Nice, and great video, although personally I'd recommend making the voice less echoey, if that's a word. It distracted unnecessarily. Others may feel differently, though.
I'm gonna echo (lol) the other guy. I love being able to listen to a video instead of having to watch to comprehend it's contents, so I really appreciate the voice, as well as it's similarity to the tutrial voice! However, the echo is too muddled to make it easy to listen to first try, so I would recommend making it clearer
Indeed being at peace with ones past choices is really something you do have to confront in life as we change so do we eventually have to face our past, its how you confront it that matters more then anything. You can't change anything that has happened. Nice use of call of duty finest hour's soundtrack. I remember that boatride across the Volga very well. There is a quote from the M*A*S*H tv series that fits pretty well. "There are two rules in war. Rule number one: young men die. Rule number two is doctors can't change rule number one." Sometimes you are faced with impossible odds and if you know of your enemy and their treatment of prisoners (mandalorians) then you can weigh your options. Sometimes the smallest of battles can have the greatest of effects and send a ripple outward and some you just die on an unforgiving rock because some dumbass has too much pride. You don't necessarily know till the aftermath, there are so many variables that are present to decide if a battle or suicide run is worth it unless you have a grasp of tge big picture. It also matters on what battlefield you fight. Invaders have a hard time justifying losses to their propaganda machine. Defenders can deflect and say "every body of our enemy destroyed is one step to victory." My dad fought in Vietnam and it honestly changed him for the worse, as in he grew very cynical about the actions of his commanders, himself and others. The enemy just became an annoyance and he was more focused on whether his commanders were worth listening to or if they held his men in regard over objectives. He quietly judged what they were really fighting for enough that when he returned he left the U.S. for good. He left with a lot of baggage and guilt that he held onto for a long time. His solution was to go back and instead of shedding blood he decided to build houses. Sometimes you can't change the past, but you can make an attempt to establish a better future, not out of an obligated forgiveness or redemption, but closure for your own demons, face your nature and accept its part of you, just don't let it consume you. Excellent video.
"Only Revaaaan could answerrr thaaaaaAAAaaattt" Bruh, your girlfriend, or sister, or whoever you had read those lines... I'll just say, you shoulda done a few more takes, lmao. That line I just quoted made me literally lol.
When I played this, I saw what the tomb was doing, I tended to uphold the past and accept the past cus even given our regrets we can't change the past, we can learn from the past and try not to repeat our mistakes and that's really the best we can do....
I personally just can't play dark side. It's not me, and it's emotional unsettling for me. So I always play Light. That being said, thank you for showing the light, dark and neutral play of the choices in this tomb. It's very eye opening, and shows the scope of lessons the main writer/game creator of Kotor 2 wanted to bestow to the players. Be they Star Wars fans or someone who just enjoys RPGs. I find it particularly intriguing about those two points in tomb in which a Dark Exile would die under certain circumstances. To first scenario, dying after being cut down by Mandaloreans of the past. Many theories come to mind though I'm unsure myself what reasoning is behind this choice put into the game. As to the second, based on own experience with, if you will, with dark side-minded individuals, it makes perfect sense that the Dark Exile slain by herself. Evil is a erosion. Sion's pain manifested in reflection of his own suffering that showed on his body. Nihilius' hunger drove him to consume everything including himself. His humanity, his identity, his individuality. Even his death leaves no corpse. A full-circle consumption. It makes sense to me that the Dark Exile would be cut down by Dark Apprentice Meetra. As her path was influenced by Revan and his engagement in the Mandalorean War. Evil erodes and attacks the self not just others. I'm curious and eager to see Part 3 of Tombs trial, and your anaylsis.
Regarding your alligence to the force deciding life or death... It probably is due to the dark side granting power something that the tomb expects of you... Something the darkside expects of you. If you fail while you have the strength you are worthless in the eyes of the sith, yet if you are a jedi you can submit to the darkness...
That's where I was headed too. But I still can't explain why that would only be the case at the mines section of the tomb and the final section when you're killed by the dark side version / Revan apprentice of yourself. Anywhere else and you live, even if you're dark sided.
I think the reason you don't get darkside points when you lie to your men about the way being clear is because you've already indulged yourself in a false scenario. I don't think any of the choices decide/change what happened in the past. I presume the exile never succeeded or even tried to defuse the mines ahead of time. Besides, it would seem unrealistic that the attack is so important, but you can still take time to clear the way. The reason you *do* get darkside points when you tell your squad their lives don't matter, is because you are in that moment refusing to accept the value of the people who have already died. The exile probably never said this to their face. The exile just gave the command, and you're now remembering the fact, deciding that you don't care about their deaths. Edit: In other words, you only earn darkside points because of you, in the present, making decisions about the past. You don't earn darkside points because the player somehow decides that the Exile acted in a malevolent way.
What you said in near the end was well said and I commend you for it. How can someone have pride in something they have no control over? I've asked myself this as well and unlike most I find more pride in what I have created and I feel most are the same. Unfortunately wherever one is born it demands allegiance and bestows a perception of pride for that land. Because they have know no other life they wiling accept.
Thank you for posting this. All the Jedi (Kreia included) have this absolutist view that the Jedi are all that matter. People like Vrook take this to a "light side" if selfish conclusion that to save the people of the Republic the Jedi must save themselves. Atris takes it to the dark side extreme that only Jedi Lives matter in all the galaxy. Only the Exile is truly a Jedi, despite Kreia's statements to the contrary. She put the lives of the people's of the Republic before her own because it is not the Jedi who matter, but the people they protect.
Or, much like Atris, you're putting too much value on the word "Jedi" and disregarding the reality of the universe to save the Jedi name. It's a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to assume that the word "Jedi" itself is inherently benevolent, when throughout Star Wars lore, we see countless examples of Jedi arrogance and dogmatism dooming the galaxy. Jedi are not inherently benevolent. Sith are not inherently malevolent. The difference is intent. To illustrate my point, who do you think is more beneficial to the future of the Star Wars universe as it stood; Revan or Atris?
Wonder if you’ll ever do The Tomb of Freedon Nadd? Haven’t played the game in some time but if I remember right there’s dark side paces that question you and what not.
There are spots in it that require a skill check to gain the power without increasing in dark side points. But I'll have another look. Maybe there is something there I can talk about.
I am starting to have doupts regarding Revan, I may have saw him either perfectly neutral or inclined somewhat to the light, but after these videos im getting the feeling he was more inclined towards dark, not consumed by it no, but he became too ruthless, cold and calculative. His actions and decisions were needed to save the republic from the Mandalorians but at the cost of empathy and ending up being semi evil. With the events in Kotor 1 maybe bringing him more towards light or atleast back the center of neutral. Just my thoughts rely.
I think Revan was a lot like G0-T0. On a purely logical perspective G0-T0 calculated that if he could either work within the laws of the republic, at which point the republic would be impossible to save, or try and save the republic, but in order to do that he would have to illegal things. Revan could have fought the war holding on to morality all the way and doom the republic, or try and save it, but that would require doing some dark, necessary evil type things. Like valuing the lives on one planet over another, abandoning entire populations to doom so others who he deemed more useful to the war effort can win. Someone had to be cold and calculating in order to make these tough decisions.
@@PapitoQinn I agree, but I wonder if he atleast somewhat fell to the dark side. In the sense of not caring as much about saving lives and cared only about victory at all costs.
@@felixdumbravescu2725 hmmm idk Revan is known to have strategically left certain infrastructure in place (like ship yards etc) and eliminate key political figures to not completely destroy shit, like malak did with Taris and Saul Karath with Telos, granted that was jedi civil war and not Mando war. Then you gotta think back to the test questions on the forest floor of Kashyyyk, i would say Revan was very calculated in how he went about the war, sometimes it could be cold and brutal. Just my 2 cents though, have a good one.
@Felix Dumbravescu You know how Kreia explains that over time Revan began to despise weakness just like the mandalorians? Some people might argue that such a thing constitutes falling to the dark side. But really it makes sense that they would start to think that. Because weakness doesn't complete missions, and failed missions translates to a lost war to the mandalorians. I can't be sure of what Revan was thinking, but I think by and large the republic values life more than the mandalorians. So perhaps victory in the war, constitutes saving lives, even if many lives end up sacrificed. Technically war is frequently a trade off. People die, in the hopes of saving more in the long run.
And with that i truly wish we had a Kotor 3 done by Obsidian to properly clarify and reveal what Revan truly was or ended up as (since SW;ToR storyline fucked it up badly).
Announcing that you weren't saying it meant you said it. Thats why when I go to the bank, I dont shout, "I'm not here to rob the bank! Just to make a withdrawal!" Thats how you get tazed.
Hmm... I always choose that I go ahead. I think a boss instructs you from the back, but a LEADER leads their troops from the front. This is mentioned in The Clone Wars series, too, in the Battle of Umbara arc.
You wanna know something I don't like what the EU did with Onderon, they made it part of the Inner Rim even though in KOTOR 2 Atton says "Onderon is about as far from the Core as you can get and still be in the Republic." and Telos is stated to be in the Outer Rim and several lines of dialogue from the NPCs on Telos that you can't have a conversation with and can only make them say things and several of the lines pretty clearly state that Telos is in the Outer Rim with them saying things like "The war has really inflated prices here in the Outer Rim. Medical supplies are in short supply and high demand." and it's stated that Onderon ships resources to Telos because they're very close to it, and if there several regions a part how on earth would they be close. 8:11 Don't quote me on this but I heard that the exile was neither very talented in the ways of lightsaber combat nor the force implying (but not objectively stating) that they were a Jedi Sentinel, and the only Jedi class that gets demolitions as a class skill is Jedi Guardian. Hence, it's possible to assume they didn't know much about demolitions because it's not a class skill for a Jedi Sentinel. 9:35 Especially since the Light Side ending of KOTOR 2 is the canon one.
you said you can't put other people above other people. Well there is no neighbour. There is only the 'Other' the alien. The one Who's customs and ways were utterly alien. People examine each other through their perspectives and often find each other... Wanting. Fellow man doesn't exsist to a patriot. I am a Finnish patriot. I look to the out side world. I have traveled europe and read the books and websites about the world. It is all so different out there. This is the best spot that there will ever be for me and woe be to those who attempt to disrupt or destroy it.
He is a universalist, so he doesn't have any notion of the value of community. To him, a random person in Japan is theoretically the same as someone in Kenya or Brazil.
Thanks, I wanted to use more examples, but unfortunately I couldn't think of any other fictional warmongers. I certainly couldn't use real life warmongers.
I think Kreia would be completely ok with you trying to figure out a better path you could have taken back in the mandalorian wars. If your goal is so important then you must and you will find a way to achieve it, whether that be lying to your men, ordering them to charge, walking through the minefield yourself or disabling them. Remember "the universe will bend to those of will and conviction", so using all strength in your arsenal is acceptable. What she wouldn't want you to do is concern yourself with morality and waver or use your strength to just save your men. That is the lesson. On the other hand the tomb wants you to worry about saving your men. If you succede you did it because of your own raw strength so saving the ones you care about takes power (aka anakin's path to the dark side) or if you fail you are weak and unable to save anyone without the power of the darkside. So maybe kreia's lesson here is "if you made a mistake don't be sorry (because of morality), be better".
Lekiamh it’s not “unbecoming” to let your mind touch the abstract. Honestly if the people of the world put more into thinking they’d realize most of their “solutions” to things are both short-sighted or lead to more problems. Cease your arrogance and find understanding in different perspectives.
Your answer in regards to whether or not your choice was correct, determine the canonical correct. If you make the statement that it was unnecessary or that it was wrong, then canonically you are establishing that it was wrong or and unnecessary. Your choices decide the fact because you’re playing a role-play game. They are better and worse neutral answers. At least among the superior neutral options, your choice as the player decides the canon. However you can make the wrong choices as fail to make the correct judgment about your own wife. Real people in real life misevaluate themselves and their past choices also. There is a correct answer out of all of this, externally and objectively according to the Absolute Moral Truth in our universe the real world, and therefore it is correct in Star Wars, too. And it is that: you should not have risked the lives of your men. Being a jedi or a powerful force user, you should have gone forward alone even if you did doe as a result of it and lose the battle, because that is the right and therefore the best thing to do according to God and as a result of God’s ways always working out and producing the best real world physical results. Do you reject that reality? The theory that it was the right choice is only a perspective and a possible answer, one possible opinion, but the fact of the moral truth and the practical truth may be that it was not necessary, wise, useful, or moral. There’s something even more important than what you say, you don’t want to linger in regret and guilt over something that you did that was right good and necessary, but it’s even worse to not acknowledge your past when you’ve done something wrong and you made a mistake. It’s more important to acknowledge that and make an internal change in your heart and mind and spirit and then act on it. If you choose to relive your past and “accept” what you did as “good and necessary“ then you do not repent learn and change. can you may even be in bracing a mistake in the name of getting rid of guilt, even though the guilt was justified. Damn Kreia if she’s wrong this time. In fact, that remorse and that regret and guilt drive you towards being a better person now, they don’t drive you toward Evil. It may be that you fuck your choice was right back then, but now you know that it was wrong and you make a new choice today. Godly sorrow leads to repentance and life. Choosing to take the path alone or with demolition can be an act of repentance and atonement which is the purpose of force vision trials. The world lost in darkness being taught psychology by Lucifer says that The remorse and that the guilt is wrong that it’s destructive. But it’s not. Guilt will not drive you to the dark side; not necessarily. Not even in most cases. Embracing the wrong decision will drive you to the Darkside for certain. It is a Darkside choice. Guilt is not bad. Not when you treat it naturally and healthily with God’s truth. How many harmful when you treat it in an unhealthy way not based on God’s truth. Guilt is a natural part of being human because it’s part of your moral conscience, given to you by God to help you make the right choices. it’s not a destructive force it’s a healing and redeeming and protective force. it’s your moral immune system and if you don’t follow it you’ll get sick. You should go up there alone to face the mandos, or deal with the mines. Have some faith in yourself that you truly could take on the mined path then and have some faith that you can do it now. Even if you die it would’ve been the right thing to do and acceptable in the past, and it would be the right thing to do now. Even if the cave physically beats you up and gives you some uncleanness. It’s only temporary it doesn’t represent who you are. Unclean is when someone foists or forces spiritual evil or dirty spiritual and moral darkness on you against your will or without your knowledge. Its an external taint or aura put on you. It’s a cheap shot. It is not your heart choice. And that’s what the cave is doing, physically beating you up and then shooting you with Darkside energy hoping you’ll take that bruise to your emotions and then succumb to it in your mind to make a lifestyle out of it. the Darkside points given to you by the cave mean nothing if you don’t continue on a life of darkness as a result. The cave, the tomb is intelligent and is trying to intelligently trick you into falling to the Darkside. It wants to turn you because the force is intelligent. Not mindless energy. It helps you will be emotionally broken by physical defeat and the darkside energy attack afterwards. If the tomb is not a turning point towards darkness for you, in your life path and lifestyle and journey’s moral course, then the Darkside points foisted on you by the tomb’s appiritions mean nothing. Temporarily feel guilty and outside paint, and you just have to atone for it and get rid of it. That’s the breast plate of righteousness and helmet of salvation. Good deeds done from an earnest heart remove the evil. The taint is not from your own fault, that’s uncleanness it’s not the same as a deliberate earned dark choice. It is a meaningless dark-side point you needn’t worry over. But we have greater confidence that we will succeed in the trial physically also. The force is with us! It’s the righteous thing to do, to go alone and make the righteous choice, even if it doesn’t give you a light side point, and to act in such a way even if the tomb physically defeats you because the choice is right, because it did not morally defeat you. Physical defeat means the dark side energy cheats and attacks you. That is not the same as earning a dark side point from your own choices and then physically beating the challenge-test-trap as a willfully dark person. Go alone and save your men! atria and the Darkside options in the tomb are both wrong. Despot tyrants are also wrong. Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. Here is why I disliked your video, God created human beings and organized us into families, and tribes, and nations and clans. Nationhood and patriotism and tribal ethnicity are inherent to humanity and derive directly from the fact that God created us to have family groups and exist and love and grow that way based on a man and a woman getting married and making at home. Couples form families. Families form clans. Clans form tribes. Tribes form nations. Nations establish territory and tule over it with authority and soventry. Nations enact and enforce God’s precepts and thoughts on earth through culture and law. People at all these levels honor God in their lives in the family and in the nation-tribe and reflect God’s glory, glorifying Him. This is inherent to humanity as God created it. God chose you to be born in your family, in your tribe, in your clan, in your district, in your region, in your country/nation. He expect you to find truth and therefore find Him among impostors, but He chose to place you personally wherever you are on the map. To condemn it, to condemn patriotism, and refuse to have pride in it .... it’s an inconsistent and sallow copout. It is refusing to take responsibility and accept truth as well as rejoice in what is good. it is weak, because it is incorrect and inconsistent. It is not truthful. More than this, God Himself names and establishes countries and also acknowledges countries and kings. God evaluates and judges countries on a running basis daily. God Himself Delineated long ago and continues to delineate the border lines of countries and their territory and their authority and he raises them up and he lays them low and he appoints who runs them and then influences those leaders He appointed. God says in the book of Revelation that when Heaven and Earth unite, that the nations will bring their glory into His holy city the New Heavenly Jerusalem. I believe the Roman Senate still holds council in Heaven. Those senators who received Christ are there today. Therefore how can you contempt nationhood and patriotism, which God created? You are holding in contempt the work and character and actions and thoughts of God. Jesus Himself is Jewish-Israeli, ethnic and national, tribal, and proud of it. Jesus Himself is the King of Israel in a literal sense.
hope u get well enough. i like your comments. Even i played the game like 15 times :) Restored content mode is really awesome and i realized this part is not cut from the game. This part of the game is the greatest part for me. Even after years i still like this part of the game.
@@PapitoQinn I think it should have been study at univercity with Baldurs Gate and Planescape Torment. But this game is different. Not a single game has discussed the force philosophy. I think the Star Wars producers should take lessons from this game. They prefer to suck Star wars universe and francise. I also suprised that why this game has not been a netflix series or something like that.
Planescape: Torment, Fallout: New Vegas. Basically, just have Chris Avellone teach the class. Disney is a business, they're trying to earn as much profit from their investment as they can. I think that with the demographics Star Wars has, it would be beneficial for them to do something more mature, preferably within the Old Republic timeline. But even so I'd be worried. Imagine if they did translate KOTOR 2 into a TV show. With a character like Kreia, they unfortunately can't exactly get widespread appeal. Too many people would have a hard time with her. Even people who played the game have told me that they got frustrated with her. She's a very complex character, and this may sound weird but, a lot of people really don't want to think too much when it comes to a show or a movie.
It’s interesting that you don’t get the philosophy of patriotism, there is no real way for me to describe it to you . It’s not merely about the land. Although that has an impact . what I will say is this - patriotism to a country is what love is to two people . It’s the philosophy that binds them regardless of external odds .
The part about national identity is disappointing to hear, and strikes me as apathy more than some kind of arrogant, so-called enlightened status above such things, or an "inability" to find worth in the idea. I can tell you, if mandalorians or any other invading army were to threaten you and yours, you'll find yourself quite tribalistic, either for or against your group.
I wanna give a big shout out to my good friend who helped me out this week, providing a voice for the exile. She suggested I do something and I decided I will in a few days. This video almost didn't make it out for today. I was having a lot of trouble rendering it. I think my PC just couldn't handle some of the video editing trickery I was trying to do in this one. So unfortunately I had to scale it back. No big loss, it's just unfortunate. Oh well.
Tell her she has quite a beautiful voice
Nice, and great video, although personally I'd recommend making the voice less echoey, if that's a word. It distracted unnecessarily. Others may feel differently, though.
I'm gonna echo (lol) the other guy. I love being able to listen to a video instead of having to watch to comprehend it's contents, so I really appreciate the voice, as well as it's similarity to the tutrial voice! However, the echo is too muddled to make it easy to listen to first try, so I would recommend making it clearer
Why the echo effect? Odd choice. Great video as always though. :)
Alright. I'll go easy on the echo next time.
They way you disect these tombs to all their meaning really fleshes out kotor lore more than I can imagine
Indeed being at peace with ones past choices is really something you do have to confront in life as we change so do we eventually have to face our past, its how you confront it that matters more then anything. You can't change anything that has happened. Nice use of call of duty finest hour's soundtrack. I remember that boatride across the Volga very well. There is a quote from the M*A*S*H tv series that fits pretty well. "There are two rules in war. Rule number one: young men die. Rule number two is doctors can't change rule number one." Sometimes you are faced with impossible odds and if you know of your enemy and their treatment of prisoners (mandalorians) then you can weigh your options. Sometimes the smallest of battles can have the greatest of effects and send a ripple outward and some you just die on an unforgiving rock because some dumbass has too much pride. You don't necessarily know till the aftermath, there are so many variables that are present to decide if a battle or suicide run is worth it unless you have a grasp of tge big picture. It also matters on what battlefield you fight. Invaders have a hard time justifying losses to their propaganda machine. Defenders can deflect and say "every body of our enemy destroyed is one step to victory." My dad fought in Vietnam and it honestly changed him for the worse, as in he grew very cynical about the actions of his commanders, himself and others. The enemy just became an annoyance and he was more focused on whether his commanders were worth listening to or if they held his men in regard over objectives. He quietly judged what they were really fighting for enough that when he returned he left the U.S. for good. He left with a lot of baggage and guilt that he held onto for a long time. His solution was to go back and instead of shedding blood he decided to build houses. Sometimes you can't change the past, but you can make an attempt to establish a better future, not out of an obligated forgiveness or redemption, but closure for your own demons, face your nature and accept its part of you, just don't let it consume you. Excellent video.
7:17 I never would have believed that this would be so tragically real
"Only Revaaaan could answerrr thaaaaaAAAaaattt"
Bruh, your girlfriend, or sister, or whoever you had read those lines... I'll just say, you shoulda done a few more takes, lmao. That line I just quoted made me literally lol.
When I played this, I saw what the tomb was doing, I tended to uphold the past and accept the past cus even given our regrets we can't change the past, we can learn from the past and try not to repeat our mistakes and that's really the best we can do....
I personally just can't play dark side. It's not me, and it's emotional unsettling for me. So I always play Light. That being said, thank you for showing the light, dark and neutral play of the choices in this tomb. It's very eye opening, and shows the scope of lessons the main writer/game creator of Kotor 2 wanted to bestow to the players. Be they Star Wars fans or someone who just enjoys RPGs.
I find it particularly intriguing about those two points in tomb in which a Dark Exile would die under certain circumstances. To first scenario, dying after being cut down by Mandaloreans of the past. Many theories come to mind though I'm unsure myself what reasoning is behind this choice put into the game.
As to the second, based on own experience with, if you will, with dark side-minded individuals, it makes perfect sense that the Dark Exile slain by herself. Evil is a erosion. Sion's pain manifested in reflection of his own suffering that showed on his body. Nihilius' hunger drove him to consume everything including himself. His humanity, his identity, his individuality. Even his death leaves no corpse. A full-circle consumption. It makes sense to me that the Dark Exile would be cut down by Dark Apprentice Meetra. As her path was influenced by Revan and his engagement in the Mandalorean War. Evil erodes and attacks the self not just others.
I'm curious and eager to see Part 3 of Tombs trial, and your anaylsis.
Regarding your alligence to the force deciding life or death... It probably is due to the dark side granting power something that the tomb expects of you... Something the darkside expects of you. If you fail while you have the strength you are worthless in the eyes of the sith, yet if you are a jedi you can submit to the darkness...
That's where I was headed too. But I still can't explain why that would only be the case at the mines section of the tomb and the final section when you're killed by the dark side version / Revan apprentice of yourself. Anywhere else and you live, even if you're dark sided.
I think the reason you don't get darkside points when you lie to your men about the way being clear is because you've already indulged yourself in a false scenario. I don't think any of the choices decide/change what happened in the past. I presume the exile never succeeded or even tried to defuse the mines ahead of time. Besides, it would seem unrealistic that the attack is so important, but you can still take time to clear the way.
The reason you *do* get darkside points when you tell your squad their lives don't matter, is because you are in that moment refusing to accept the value of the people who have already died. The exile probably never said this to their face. The exile just gave the command, and you're now remembering the fact, deciding that you don't care about their deaths.
Edit: In other words, you only earn darkside points because of you, in the present, making decisions about the past. You don't earn darkside points because the player somehow decides that the Exile acted in a malevolent way.
What you said in near the end was well said and I commend you for it. How can someone have pride in something they have no control over? I've asked myself this as well and unlike most I find more pride in what I have created and I feel most are the same. Unfortunately wherever one is born it demands allegiance and bestows a perception of pride for that land. Because they have know no other life they wiling accept.
Thank you for this video. Not as deep and useful as the previous topics, but still very interesting!
That voice echoing tripped me tf out. Thought someone laced my joint..
Thank you for posting this. All the Jedi (Kreia included) have this absolutist view that the Jedi are all that matter. People like Vrook take this to a "light side" if selfish conclusion that to save the people of the Republic the Jedi must save themselves. Atris takes it to the dark side extreme that only Jedi Lives matter in all the galaxy.
Only the Exile is truly a Jedi, despite Kreia's statements to the contrary. She put the lives of the people's of the Republic before her own because it is not the Jedi who matter, but the people they protect.
Or, much like Atris, you're putting too much value on the word "Jedi" and disregarding the reality of the universe to save the Jedi name. It's a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to assume that the word "Jedi" itself is inherently benevolent, when throughout Star Wars lore, we see countless examples of Jedi arrogance and dogmatism dooming the galaxy. Jedi are not inherently benevolent. Sith are not inherently malevolent. The difference is intent. To illustrate my point, who do you think is more beneficial to the future of the Star Wars universe as it stood; Revan or Atris?
Amazing job as always, i'll be looking forward to the next one.
Wonder if you’ll ever do The Tomb of Freedon Nadd? Haven’t played the game in some time but if I remember right there’s dark side paces that question you and what not.
There are spots in it that require a skill check to gain the power without increasing in dark side points. But I'll have another look. Maybe there is something there I can talk about.
Can't wait for parts 3 and 4! Great analysis!
Atris truly fell far. Kreia said it best though-" its such a quiet thing to fall. But far more terrible is too admit it"
"To fall so far, but to learn nothing. That is your failing" the line kreia says to sion fits Atris. She did fall far, but learned nothing from it.
@@graetestfanever1 very true
I am starting to have doupts regarding Revan, I may have saw him either perfectly neutral or inclined somewhat to the light, but after these videos im getting the feeling he was more inclined towards dark, not consumed by it no, but he became too ruthless, cold and calculative. His actions and decisions were needed to save the republic from the Mandalorians but at the cost of empathy and ending up being semi evil. With the events in Kotor 1 maybe bringing him more towards light or atleast back the center of neutral. Just my thoughts rely.
I think Revan was a lot like G0-T0. On a purely logical perspective G0-T0 calculated that if he could either work within the laws of the republic, at which point the republic would be impossible to save, or try and save the republic, but in order to do that he would have to illegal things. Revan could have fought the war holding on to morality all the way and doom the republic, or try and save it, but that would require doing some dark, necessary evil type things. Like valuing the lives on one planet over another, abandoning entire populations to doom so others who he deemed more useful to the war effort can win. Someone had to be cold and calculating in order to make these tough decisions.
@@PapitoQinn I agree, but I wonder if he atleast somewhat fell to the dark side. In the sense of not caring as much about saving lives and cared only about victory at all costs.
@@felixdumbravescu2725 hmmm idk Revan is known to have strategically left certain infrastructure in place (like ship yards etc) and eliminate key political figures to not completely destroy shit, like malak did with Taris and Saul Karath with Telos, granted that was jedi civil war and not Mando war. Then you gotta think back to the test questions on the forest floor of Kashyyyk, i would say Revan was very calculated in how he went about the war, sometimes it could be cold and brutal. Just my 2 cents though, have a good one.
@Felix Dumbravescu You know how Kreia explains that over time Revan began to despise weakness just like the mandalorians? Some people might argue that such a thing constitutes falling to the dark side. But really it makes sense that they would start to think that. Because weakness doesn't complete missions, and failed missions translates to a lost war to the mandalorians. I can't be sure of what Revan was thinking, but I think by and large the republic values life more than the mandalorians. So perhaps victory in the war, constitutes saving lives, even if many lives end up sacrificed. Technically war is frequently a trade off. People die, in the hopes of saving more in the long run.
And with that i truly wish we had a Kotor 3 done by Obsidian to properly clarify and reveal what Revan truly was or ended up as (since SW;ToR storyline fucked it up badly).
Not gonna say first, just gonna watch the good content.
Announcing that you weren't saying it meant you said it.
Thats why when I go to the bank, I dont shout, "I'm not here to rob the bank! Just to make a withdrawal!"
Thats how you get tazed.
"The only casualties that matter are Jedi. Charge!"
"They were not Jedi, it was not murder."
Hmm... I always choose that I go ahead. I think a boss instructs you from the back, but a LEADER leads their troops from the front. This is mentioned in The Clone Wars series, too, in the Battle of Umbara arc.
Nice use of the Major
Running into mines and surviving is still a silly concept to me, even if the sacrifice is a Jedi who can block and/or heal from the effects.
You wanna know something I don't like what the EU did with Onderon, they made it part of the Inner Rim even though in KOTOR 2 Atton says "Onderon is about as far from the Core as you can get and still be in the Republic." and Telos is stated to be in the Outer Rim and several lines of dialogue from the NPCs on Telos that you can't have a conversation with and can only make them say things and several of the lines pretty clearly state that Telos is in the Outer Rim with them saying things like "The war has really inflated prices here in the Outer Rim. Medical supplies are in short supply and high demand." and it's stated that Onderon ships resources to Telos because they're very close to it, and if there several regions a part how on earth would they be close.
8:11 Don't quote me on this but I heard that the exile was neither very talented in the ways of lightsaber combat nor the force implying (but not objectively stating) that they were a Jedi Sentinel, and the only Jedi class that gets demolitions as a class skill is Jedi Guardian. Hence, it's possible to assume they didn't know much about demolitions because it's not a class skill for a Jedi Sentinel.
9:35 Especially since the Light Side ending of KOTOR 2 is the canon one.
"I am the Code" - Atris
you said you can't put other people above other people. Well there is no neighbour. There is only the 'Other' the alien. The one Who's customs and ways were utterly alien. People examine each other through their perspectives and often find each other... Wanting. Fellow man doesn't exsist to a patriot. I am a Finnish patriot. I look to the out side world. I have traveled europe and read the books and websites about the world. It is all so different out there. This is the best spot that there will ever be for me and woe be to those who attempt to disrupt or destroy it.
He is a universalist, so he doesn't have any notion of the value of community. To him, a random person in Japan is theoretically the same as someone in Kenya or Brazil.
The dark side doesnt tolerate weakness
The major of the vampire nazis was a perfect example of the warmonger bit
Thanks, I wanted to use more examples, but unfortunately I couldn't think of any other fictional warmongers. I certainly couldn't use real life warmongers.
I think Kreia would be completely ok with you trying to figure out a better path you could have taken back in the mandalorian wars. If your goal is so important then you must and you will find a way to achieve it, whether that be lying to your men, ordering them to charge, walking through the minefield yourself or disabling them. Remember "the universe will bend to those of will and conviction", so using all strength in your arsenal is acceptable. What she wouldn't want you to do is concern yourself with morality and waver or use your strength to just save your men. That is the lesson. On the other hand the tomb wants you to worry about saving your men. If you succede you did it because of your own raw strength so saving the ones you care about takes power (aka anakin's path to the dark side) or if you fail you are weak and unable to save anyone without the power of the darkside. So maybe kreia's lesson here is "if you made a mistake don't be sorry (because of morality), be better".
You are an universalist.
In a sense, egoistic. He loses himself in abstractions, and thinks himself therefore above "tribalism." It's unbecoming.
Lekiamh it’s not “unbecoming” to let your mind touch the abstract. Honestly if the people of the world put more into thinking they’d realize most of their “solutions” to things are both short-sighted or lead to more problems. Cease your arrogance and find understanding in different perspectives.
lightside FTW
Your answer in regards to whether or not your choice was correct, determine the canonical correct. If you make the statement that it was unnecessary or that it was wrong, then canonically you are establishing that it was wrong or and unnecessary. Your choices decide the fact because you’re playing a role-play game. They are better and worse neutral answers. At least among the superior neutral options, your choice as the player decides the canon. However you can make the wrong choices as fail to make the correct judgment about your own wife. Real people in real life misevaluate themselves and their past choices also. There is a correct answer out of all of this, externally and objectively according to the Absolute Moral Truth in our universe the real world, and therefore it is correct in Star Wars, too. And it is that: you should not have risked the lives of your men. Being a jedi or a powerful force user, you should have gone forward alone even if you did doe as a result of it and lose the battle, because that is the right and therefore the best thing to do according to God and as a result of God’s ways always working out and producing the best real world physical results. Do you reject that reality? The theory that it was the right choice is only a perspective and a possible answer, one possible opinion, but the fact of the moral truth and the practical truth may be that it was not necessary, wise, useful, or moral. There’s something even more important than what you say, you don’t want to linger in regret and guilt over something that you did that was right good and necessary, but it’s even worse to not acknowledge your past when you’ve done something wrong and you made a mistake. It’s more important to acknowledge that and make an internal change in your heart and mind and spirit and then act on it. If you choose to relive your past and “accept” what you did as “good and necessary“ then you do not repent learn and change. can you may even be in bracing a mistake in the name of getting rid of guilt, even though the guilt was justified. Damn Kreia if she’s wrong this time. In fact, that remorse and that regret and guilt drive you towards being a better person now, they don’t drive you toward Evil. It may be that you fuck your choice was right back then, but now you know that it was wrong and you make a new choice today. Godly sorrow leads to repentance and life. Choosing to take the path alone or with demolition can be an act of repentance and atonement which is the purpose of force vision trials. The world lost in darkness being taught psychology by Lucifer says that The remorse and that the guilt is wrong that it’s destructive. But it’s not. Guilt will not drive you to the dark side; not necessarily. Not even in most cases. Embracing the wrong decision will drive you to the Darkside for certain. It is a Darkside choice. Guilt is not bad. Not when you treat it naturally and healthily with God’s truth. How many harmful when you treat it in an unhealthy way not based on God’s truth. Guilt is a natural part of being human because it’s part of your moral conscience, given to you by God to help you make the right choices. it’s not a destructive force it’s a healing and redeeming and protective force. it’s your moral immune system and if you don’t follow it you’ll get sick. You should go up there alone to face the mandos, or deal with the mines. Have some faith in yourself that you truly could take on the mined path then and have some faith that you can do it now. Even if you die it would’ve been the right thing to do and acceptable in the past, and it would be the right thing to do now. Even if the cave physically beats you up and gives you some uncleanness. It’s only temporary it doesn’t represent who you are. Unclean is when someone foists or forces spiritual evil or dirty spiritual and moral darkness on you against your will or without your knowledge. Its an external taint or aura put on you. It’s a cheap shot. It is not your heart choice. And that’s what the cave is doing, physically beating you up and then shooting you with Darkside energy hoping you’ll take that bruise to your emotions and then succumb to it in your mind to make a lifestyle out of it. the Darkside points given to you by the cave mean nothing if you don’t continue on a life of darkness as a result. The cave, the tomb is intelligent and is trying to intelligently trick you into falling to the Darkside. It wants to turn you because the force is intelligent. Not mindless energy. It helps you will be emotionally broken by physical defeat and the darkside energy attack afterwards. If the tomb is not a turning point towards darkness for you, in your life path and lifestyle and journey’s moral course, then the Darkside points foisted on you by the tomb’s appiritions mean nothing. Temporarily feel guilty and outside paint, and you just have to atone for it and get rid of it. That’s the breast plate of righteousness and helmet of salvation. Good deeds done from an earnest heart remove the evil. The taint is not from your own fault, that’s uncleanness it’s not the same as a deliberate earned dark choice. It is a meaningless dark-side point you needn’t worry over. But we have greater confidence that we will succeed in the trial physically also. The force is with us! It’s the righteous thing to do, to go alone and make the righteous choice, even if it doesn’t give you a light side point, and to act in such a way even if the tomb physically defeats you because the choice is right, because it did not morally defeat you. Physical defeat means the dark side energy cheats and attacks you. That is not the same as earning a dark side point from your own choices and then physically beating the challenge-test-trap as a willfully dark person. Go alone and save your men!
atria and the Darkside options in the tomb are both wrong. Despot tyrants are also wrong. Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. Here is why I disliked your video, God created human beings and organized us into families, and tribes, and nations and clans. Nationhood and patriotism and tribal ethnicity are inherent to humanity and derive directly from the fact that God created us to have family groups and exist and love and grow that way based on a man and a woman getting married and making at home. Couples form families. Families form clans. Clans form tribes. Tribes form nations. Nations establish territory and tule over it with authority and soventry. Nations enact and enforce God’s precepts and thoughts on earth through culture and law. People at all these levels honor God in their lives in the family and in the nation-tribe and reflect God’s glory, glorifying Him. This is inherent to humanity as God created it. God chose you to be born in your family, in your tribe, in your clan, in your district, in your region, in your country/nation. He expect you to find truth and therefore find Him among impostors, but He chose to place you personally wherever you are on the map. To condemn it, to condemn patriotism, and refuse to have pride in it .... it’s an inconsistent and sallow copout. It is refusing to take responsibility and accept truth as well as rejoice in what is good. it is weak, because it is incorrect and inconsistent. It is not truthful. More than this, God Himself names and establishes countries and also acknowledges countries and kings. God evaluates and judges countries on a running basis daily. God Himself Delineated long ago and continues to delineate the border lines of countries and their territory and their authority and he raises them up and he lays them low and he appoints who runs them and then influences those leaders He appointed. God says in the book of Revelation that when Heaven and Earth unite, that the nations will bring their glory into His holy city the New Heavenly Jerusalem. I believe the Roman Senate still holds council in Heaven. Those senators who received Christ are there today. Therefore how can you contempt nationhood and patriotism, which God created? You are holding in contempt the work and character and actions and thoughts of God. Jesus Himself is Jewish-Israeli, ethnic and national, tribal, and proud of it. Jesus Himself is the King of Israel in a literal sense.
Where is the part 3 ?
Coming soon. I got pretty sick recently and couldn't work on it. But I'm recovering.
hope u get well enough. i like your comments. Even i played the game like 15 times :) Restored content mode is really awesome and i realized this part is not cut from the game. This part of the game is the greatest part for me. Even after years i still like this part of the game.
Thanks, man. This game, at least in terms of its writing, is timeless. It deserves study and analysis, especially by video game developers.
@@PapitoQinn I think it should have been study at univercity with Baldurs Gate and Planescape Torment. But this game is different. Not a single game has discussed the force philosophy. I think the Star Wars producers should take lessons from this game. They prefer to suck Star wars universe and francise.
I also suprised that why this game has not been a netflix series or something like that.
Planescape: Torment, Fallout: New Vegas. Basically, just have Chris Avellone teach the class.
Disney is a business, they're trying to earn as much profit from their investment as they can. I think that with the demographics Star Wars has, it would be beneficial for them to do something more mature, preferably within the Old Republic timeline. But even so I'd be worried. Imagine if they did translate KOTOR 2 into a TV show. With a character like Kreia, they unfortunately can't exactly get widespread appeal. Too many people would have a hard time with her. Even people who played the game have told me that they got frustrated with her. She's a very complex character, and this may sound weird but, a lot of people really don't want to think too much when it comes to a show or a movie.
watching this in 2022, while evacuated from Ukraine, well - that's to the point
Stay safe out there, man.
@@PapitoQinn thanks man
It’s interesting that you don’t get the philosophy of patriotism, there is no real way for me to describe it to you . It’s not merely about the land. Although that has an impact . what I will say is this - patriotism to a country is what love is to two people . It’s the philosophy that binds them regardless of external odds .
The woman's voice is extremely annoying and aggravating. Otherwise, good video.
Second
The part about national identity is disappointing to hear, and strikes me as apathy more than some kind of arrogant, so-called enlightened status above such things, or an "inability" to find worth in the idea. I can tell you, if mandalorians or any other invading army were to threaten you and yours, you'll find yourself quite tribalistic, either for or against your group.