NDI EXPLAINED! Add network inputs to ATEM MINI & OBS with BirdDog
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- NDI allows you to send broadcast audio & video over a standard network. Today, I show you how to use BirdDogs NDI encoders and decoders to send your video feeds into broadcast tools like Blackmagic's ATEM Mini Pro & OBS.
My Full Kit List (including all BirdDog encoders used in this video):
kit.co/alexpettitt/atem-mini-...
(Affiliate links)
OBS NDI Plugin:
github.com/Palakis/obs-ndi/re...
#BirdDog #NDI #ATEMMINIPRO
I'm back and have a bunch of new videos lined up, starting off with this! NDI is a technology that is changing the game when it comes to broadcasting... so If you've never heard of it before, I hope this video has been useful for you!
can you connect to the atem extreme iso a wireless camera using the Atomos Connect with NDI? if So, how would you go about achieving this?
Great into to NDI - Have been wrestling with a NDI set up trying to get cameras connected to an ATEM and this really helped. I now get it. Great work.
Thank you for all the extremely helpful content! I am setting up a multicamera livestream with the ATEM Mini Pro at the core of the operations and your videos have been invaluable.
Thanks Mario, I'm really glad to hear the videos have been helping! Good luck with your setup :)
The master is back ... we've been using this NDI systems with OBS since the early pandemic days it's been amazing for our streams. This BirdDogs system looks amazing.
Glad to hear you've been experimenting with NDI, it's really great isnt it!
Thanks for a great walk-through, now I will skip HDMI over IP and go NDI for our stream setup! Keep it up!
Is there a company out there paying people to dislike videos? That would be the only explanation for the 9 dislikes on this video. Great video. I've been doing NDI research today for about 6 hours. I think all my previous 6 hours were wasted. Great video! No misleading title! I've learned more than those clickbaiting videos out there. I know have an idea of what I need for my 4 cams setup project.
That was a phenomenal video, and encouraged me to purchase my first BirdDog product, the 4k Flex encoder. Will feed my Canon Xf405 in glorious 4k 60 through it, capturing across my home MicroTik 10GbE network, on to my vMIX Pro beast machine. For $399 USD, I will get much of what a good Epiphan or Magewell capture card provides, but thanks to the magic of multi-mode fiber, I get it anywhere in my home I need it! Love it, danke!
wonderful you are back, I have almost gone and been worried about you
Superb video juts got my Atem MINI Pro ISO, thanks for the efforts and info I have learnt a lot. from you .
Happy Birthday Alex! Wishing you the best! 🎂❤🙏
Thanks Mark, I really appreciate it!
@@AlexPettitt I've always appreciated you through the years. Thanks for always replying and the acknowledgment. ❤🙏Mark
Ty so much for this
This is gonna be so awesome to use in a dual PC streaming setup because VRChat causes crashes that can freeze the entire computer, so this is super useful!
Another great video Alex. Keep it rolling.
Thanks for the overview. I wonder if the ATEM will get a software update to have NDI built-in. It would be nice to be able to select NDI sources and/or send ATEM output encoded to NDI. Less cabling would be nice! Of course, that may entail a new model with some extra hardware to support it.
Nope. BMD and Newtek aren't friends, which is why BMD does there own remote protocol.
I appreciate the utility of the individual NDI adapters for remote single camera/output situations, but, when you need *multiple*, such as: at the video switch end, wouldn't it be more cost-effective to use an older PC with multi-port IO card and perhaps multiple network connections as the bridge between the video switch (assuming not NDI capable, of course) and NDI sources? That way, your NDI-bridging computer can also switch between multiple network sources, to make the most out of the physical connections to the video switch that you have available.
Good to see you back Alex
Good to be back :) Thanks for the suppport!
You're absolutely calm for a guy with so many redbulls around.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great summary of this :)
watching from Philippines.. Great product.
Thanks for watching! Really glad you found the video useful :)
Super informative video Alex, great work!
Thanks guys! And thanks again for getting them out to me so quickly 🙌
Great vid as always. Thanks. Will be checking out the birddog
Wow! Thanks Alex! Great video!
Thank you for the upload.
Nice product. I was looking at it for my application. Having seen you put this into action provides more insight on my application. Thanks for the video as always!
Glad it was helpful! Let me know if you have any specific questions about any of them and I'll do my best to answer
We also use these excellent Birddog products. We hope to see this technology integrated in BMD.
For everyone here, I spent the $ for an hour with this cat and it was brilliant.
Love this, thank you Alex!!
Glad you like it! I massively enjoyed testing out the converters :) How about your NDI camera's next? ;)
@@AlexPettitt sounds like a great idea - let's make it happen!
Hey Alex, really informative video! Mate, I was wondering if you know if you can transmit talley information (and other camera control info) from the ATEM Mini to a BMPCC via NDI. I know you did the video on HDMI extenders but they have the downside of being unidirectional. It strikes me that there is an opportunity to replace the extenders with encoder/decoders. Thanks - love your work!!
Mind. Blown.
Thanks.
In the future, remember, bullet points and graphics.
Your content is excessive with talking. Your voice and speed of speech is excellent.
Keep up the good work.
Hi Alex, I'm probably late for the party. Regarding your question about the differences in color between the two devices.
This is caused by one device been by the default set to Video Range and the second one to Full Range.
To solve this discrepancy one of the devices can be changed from one video range into another to match each other. This is true if they have support to change between video range levels setting in the hardware or through software.
Most video consumer monitors ,TVs and other video devices expect Video Range, while professional devices and software, like DaVinci Resolve supports both.
Hey Alex, the colour shift could be to do with the RGB vs YUV settings in the Birddog control panel and/or either only being partial range on one end, full range on the other, hence range scaling. I've seen similar shifts with the ATEM MP when hooking up RGB/YUV selectable graphics outputs from OBS over HDMI. Nice NDI primer too!
Yay! Another rabbit hole. Great stuff though and thanks for the explanation.
Haha I know how you feed re rabbit hole, I feel like I have taken a deep dive into NDI over the last few months...but it’s been great :)
@@AlexPettitt Mate, I'm teaching online Chemistry classes at a Uni in the US through Zoom (I'm from the UK) and your videos have been invaluable in making it work. Most of my colleagues are still yelling at a dodgy laptop camera, and wondering why their students don't show up for lectures, while I'm using the ATEM mini and getting 95% attendance. Thanks for the clear explanations.
@@MechanismBasics This is so awesome to hear! Good quality is just as important as good content 👍
Great intro mate. Thank you
Thanks Werner, appreciate it :£
This was great!!!
More please-:)
Thanks for great content as always. NDI is a dream, if it worked realiably. I have used it to send a feed to a computer using NDI Virtual Display and that crashed occasionally (maybe should have received using OBS instead and then had OBS do the virtual camera), and also tried Skype and Teams with NDI enabled, but then audio goes out of sync when there are more than one person in the meeting. Hopefully, NDI and its implementations will mature soon.
NDI is very solid if implemented correctly. unfortunately some 3rd party encoders and decoders about a year or so ago had issues with illigal signals being pased that would shut down the host. OBS also had a bad implementation but i never used it much in production so not sure if it was resolved. But where people would have the most issues is not setting up a proper network. Marketing material preaches how easy NDI can be implemented over existing networks but unless your switch and router is layer 2-3 and managed and allows you to configure mDNS and VLANs the network load can cause problems. Especially the OBS NDI plugin back in the day. If you still had those issues just using NDI studio then look at your network and the load. You'll be amazed how quick cheap network cards and switches will show their ugly little head when NDI or any AV IP is being used. Plus i think the virtual camera had its own issues. As i'm typing this i see your response was a year ago so i'm sure thatw as it.
Amazing job..love the content.
Great video 👍🏻
Good info Alex.
Really glad it was helpful! :)
You said the only limitation was network speed. I was wondering about network topology. Do all the NDI systems need to be on the same network segment? Is discovery done by ARP or some other method? And finally, can the protocol be routed between networks (accepting a possible loss of speed)?
Nice video again Alex
Glad you enjoyed :)
great intro. thanks
Please tell me more about NDI Streaming Solutions. I want to setup a Video Studio with complete NDI Workflow :)
thanks a lot for great video . if i want to use a sound interface like goxlr from pc to u se it as my MAC OVER NDI , WHAT DEVICE I NEED FROM THE THREE U TALKED ABOUT
Great vid!
Great video. I might be dumb, or not paid enough attention...but how to send three signals (video signal and sound, ptz-commands and talkback) into one ethernet port on the sender side of the production?
Can you pair up a remote BirdDog Mini connected to camera via the internet to a local BirdDog Mini connected to an ATEM Mini Extreme ISO. I suspect you would need to open port 5961 (?) on your router to allow the connection.
Fantastic video
Thanks Joe, I hope you found it useful 👍
thanks a lot for your channel. Concerning NDI, did you test through a VPN ?
Hello Alex. Alex, I'm running 3 cameras and a PC for slides into my atem mini pro. I then feed this into the atem streaming bridge and use the HDMI out of the bridge to go into a capture card to feed into OBS. Theres a few seconds of latency but not an issue if you're watching over RUclips or Facebook Live. How would NDI help this setup and how would I get all of these inputs into NDI and then out to my streaming bridge? And thanks for you informative videos.
Hello Alex Pettitt, can look make a review on the Satella ViZion - SP8 ?
I live stream sports and use an atem mini pro and obs. I want to find a way to be able to add graphics with obs without the live streaming being dependent on my laptop and obs so that if my laptop crashes the live stream will stay on air via the atem mini pro and the only thing I lose is the graphics until I’m able to get my laptop running again. I ran into a problem where my laptop randomly restarted itself the other day in the middle of the live stream therefore the live stream stopped on RUclips since it’s my laptop that’s putting out the livestream, not the atem mini pro.
Thank you in advance!
My NDI tool can not find a source in obs other tools seems to work. I am trying to use ndi as virtual camera and virtual cable to send obs feed to restream from one computer. I am doing it on one computer, maybe it designed to work only for two computers? 🤔
Can I use a Birddog Play for outputting a NDI signal out from Vmix or Newbluefx Titler, e.g. lower thirds, and use it for input on an Atem Switcher as a downstream input? Thank you in advance for your advice.
How can I do Wireless NDI to HDMI? I need to be able to control everything from a Crestron type system
My church use 3 NDI PTZ cam and want to use ATEM mini Pro with it. we do use OBS. How is the easyest way to do this?
So...I cannot get any tally information or talkback when the decoder is connected into the Atem Mini?
Hi. We have lot of problems using Comms lite, even more trying to use the intercom. Which headphones you recomend to use, which FW is the most stable, etc please help. Thanks a lot
Gday Alex, certainly an interesting use case with NDI coders. Not sure if there is a better solution for my application. I am doing CAD software training and I am running 3 monitors. I have been looking for a workflow to take each of the feeds to the monitors from the GPU and put them into Atem MiniPro Iso, which I can then push to Camtasia to record.
I am not having much luck yet. Thinking, tomorrow I will try using splitters. Any advice it that would work or the type of splitter I should be purchasing?
Also my feed to Camtasia is not working yet as I am getting image flickering and only half an image, so that has me baffled.
Just add some more complexity, my GPU is quadro card so it has DisplayPorts.
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Do you advice doing this with a 3 NDI cameras + obs as a switch in purpose of streaming a live event?
Hi Alex! I gave up my Dante enabled TF3 mixer last year and now need another one to replace it. I produce a regular radio show remotely and want to use my workstation to get back into streaming, video conferences and my communications hobbies. Despite being trained in Dante I can't afford a TF1 so I considering switching to the cheaper NDI solution. What do you think and any thoughts on the Mackie DLZ Creator?
Would it work to have 2 Birddog Minis? One to encode a camera to NDI and the 2nd to decode it for the ATEM HDMI input, rather than using a Mini and a Flex 4k?
Anyone have a recommended HDMI splitter that plays nice with the Blackmagic ATEM minis? I’ve had issues with some.
Can I use ATEM's Cat5 Streaming port as an NDI output?
Hi, is there any need of enabling multicast or qos on switch or is that handled by the NDI device itself?
I have a question: if I had 4 camera's attached to the same network - each using a BirdDog converter - is it thinkable that I could get their separate signals into the ATEM given the fact that I have only one network-cable going from the technicians room where the ATEM is stationed going to the room where the cam's are attached to a router and/or hub (e.g. by connecting this cable to a second hub and adding 4 ndi/hdmi converters)?
Thanks @Alex for the video ! I wanted to have a review of the birddog products and it is great ! Have you tried the P200 ?
Also, I have a question. In OBS, when you layout your output with ndi. Does it also embed sound ?
Thanks a lot !
Hi Nicola, I'm glad the review/demo was helpful! I haven't tried the P200 yet, but that will be my next adventure with BirdDog products...definitely keen to try out some of their cameras!
And yes, the NDI feed is both audio and video, so both carry into OBS :)
@@sophiagenetics844 Ohhh, yes, the NDI Program output from NDI carries sound as demonstrated at 9:58 (Note:NDI output from individual scenes using the filter does not though).
NDI made NewTek Tricaster FILTHY RICH. It is truly "all that" and more. This is a perfect demo for LATENCY....3 frames is about exactly the maximum that is acceptable for LIVE IMAG. This is why NDI has become SO useful in the pro LIVE A/V production world. Also, it's why even the "best" HDMI capture cards are not quite good enough for production. Almost all HDMI captures add at least 5-10 frames of delay at the minimum, plenty enough to piss off an average corporate client for bad lip sync delay on the video screens with HDMI and say, an ELGATO. NDI is MAGIC
Hello Alex! I have a question....can I use the color page on Atem software with BMPC6K/4K through NDI ?
What's de difference between the flex and the mini. Is the flex a newer version? thanks!
well but how to send skype to ATEM MINI in particular HOW TO SEND NOT ONLY ONE SKYPE CONNECTION but as it happens with OBS is it possible to send to ATEM MINI PRO separate NDI connections in oder to allow me to have in my streaming also remote partecipants?
Great Video! I am already Subscribed.....
Thanks Keith! I appreciate you support 👍
Do they make something, that works if the camera doesn't have access to Ethernet?
Camera Input : can we go direct from Netgear to Laptop, and then add NDI Input (Camera) in OBS?
Hi, what kind of hdmi splitter did you use? Thanks.
Hey sorry to be dumb but have to ask: can I use this application to get livevideo&audio from DJIPocket2 to Atem mini pro? Pocket2 has no usb/hdmi out.... THE Pocket2 gives a wifi/some weird rtmp-signal via wifi or Btooth and does not carry audio :(
Very much enjoyed this video, Alex. Would you mind clarifying your statement about no limit to how many NDI sources? You mention a gigabit network, but I’ve seen other videos mention that a standard gigabit network is insufficient for more that one source. I believe their statement was that a ten-gigabit network would handle 15 HD NDI sources. It seemed to make sense. Curious what your observations have been regarding maximum number of NDI feeds on a gig network.
Hey Marcos, so a standard Full NDI 1080p 30fps stream takes around 125mbps, so with that you can definitely have more than one NDI feed on a gigabit network. Obviously as you increase resolution to 4K or framerate to 60fps, it requires more data & bandwidth. 10Gbe networks is always preferable, but you can send multiple NDI streams across a 1gbe, just makes sure you leave yourself some headroom for all your other network traffic. Also, if youre worried about bandwidth, take a look at the NDI | HX protocol, which is a compressed version :) Hope this helps!
Alex Pettitt very helpful! I haven’t looked into NDI HX. I’ll bet you’ve got a video on it! Thanks!
@@marcossalinas2914
It just like n ndi but uses AVC or HEVC for video compression and typically consumes 10 to 20 mbps bandwidth hence,more streams could be possible to travel
What the first example is for beats me but there is an audio delay probably cause of all that hardware hooked up together
Nice video again Alex....I have a question, can you use it like the streambringe, what I want to say is if you plug an Ethernet cable from Atem into it will give you signal from hdmi???and if yes has a delay like streambringe?
Thanks Christos, not the ATEM Mini does not support NDI out of its Ethernet port, so sadly not. Would love to see this feature added in the future though :)
@@AlexPettitt thanks mate ...let’s hope it will give
Thanks!
Thanks for the Super Thanks Steve, much appreciated 🙌
Hey man i have a Just one question no one can answering it just simple question;
There is any standalone hardware encoder available can streaming x264 slow profile to twitch tv ? i need it man pleaseeeeeeeeee
Do you use Birdog products for clients? Seems very technical for normal people
Alex, you appear to be morphing into Max Cady, as portrayed by Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear. Just need the tats now.
Hi Alex,
Just a quick comment on your NDI demo when thier was a brightness change when you switched inputs.
Perhaps this has to do with the Black level? Are you at 0 Black or 7.5.Can you change settings in the Birddog controller?
Blackmagic should update thier software to include the capability of receiving NDI.
I built an Atem mini pro 6U fly pack with monitoring,etc and using the Atem bridge.
Your demo’s are priceless keep up the good work.
Thanks Mark! I didn't adjust the colour settings, but I also didn't go in and check them before hand. I only really noticed the difference once I came to the edit. And yes, would love to see NDI brought natively to the ATEM line personally...but I don't see it happening (it's technically from a competitor and there are other IP based protocols out there that BM could use). Will keep the fingers crossed though :)
Mark, very curious to see pics of your ATEM flypack build. Do you have a video on here, or pics posted somewhere? I’m building similar with a bank of raspberry pi’s and mini encoders, but still designing on paper at this point.
@@marcossalinas2914
Hi Marcos,
I can send you a picture of my Atem fly pack and what I have done so far.
Where should I send it to?
I’m new to this forum and have to subscribe to Alex’s posts which are excellent and so straightforward.
@@marcossalinas2914
Hi Marcos,
If you can send me your email I can send you my pictures on my fly pack.
I am interested in what you may do with raspberry pi’s etc.
I am recording to a drive and have the multi-view monitored.
I am using a small router and the Atem Bridge for my Program monitor.
The Atem mini Pro and small Yamaha audio mixer are on a small pull out drawer.
Everything is pre-wired.
On the back is a furman power supply and a 1U connector panel for Video,audio,etc.
Internally I have hdmi to sdi and sdi to hdmi converters that breakout to the connector panel.
I am currently using a MacBook Pro for Atem software and to get graphics into the system.
I also have an audio box to change balanced audio to unbalanced audio into the Atem Pro.
I am considering other solutions for streaming as I have a pc with Wirecast.
I could output from the Atem Streaming bridge into a converter to use for streaming.
My email is Digitalblue@icloud.com
MARK BRAVERMAN thanks for the replies. I’ve tested the Pi4B, but tonight is the first time I’m using it as the source for my streaming encoder. www.fcps.edu/streamingmeeting2
Another question, is the 3-frame delay constant or does it increase over time? At some of our live events, we use network encoders to feed overflow rooms. Standard for those (not NDI) to have a two second delay, but one encoder’s delay increased to over a minute over the course of a thirty minute keynote presentation.
Hey Marcos - the BirdDog hardware architecture doesn't allow for a growing latency over time
BirdDog great to know! Going to check out your product line now.
What's the purpose of this Box?
Is it possible to set up macros in the ATEM software which will set the position of an NDI PTZ camera? Or would that have to be done through another solution like Companion where one button would send signals to both the ATEM and the camera?
Good question! You wouldn’t be able to use ATEM Software as ATEM doesn’t support NDI, but if Birddog has an integration with companion, then yeah that should work. I’ll check :)
Would make an awesome vid 😜
Great solution if your camera has no SDI port and you need to take the feed for 100's of meters
Alex, a question for you. How can I get the feed of the ATEM Mini PRO into OBS without the use of USB-C? My goal would be to grab the feed in OBS from the ATEM from NDI. Note, I do know the technique through Thunderbolt 3 but I'd love to figure out a way to do this with NDI. Many thanks.
You could push a feed out from the ATEM Mini Pro via RTMP and then receive it In OBS but running a local RTMP server on the same machine
@@AlexPettitt Thanks. Sounds a little more complex than I wished for. I'm having a problem with the USB-C port on any machine and OBS freezing the video feed from the ATEM hence my reasoning for trying to work around it. I've seen others with the same complaint. It's not the ATEM but the interaction of the USB-C port and OBS it seems.
That's an interesting video and I can definitely see how useful it could be - especially for cameras that are a very long distance from the Mini Pro. But doesn't it add $1,000 per camera? 2 encoder/decoders @ $500 each.
It would also make you think about getting cameras with SDI out instead at that price for encoder decoders. This is a great solution if you already have a bunch of quality cameras with clean HDMI outs that were older (like a stock pile of old GH4’s).
Each 3G-SDI 1080p60 video stream requires up to 3 Gbps bandwidth. How can a 1Gbps ethernet network handle even ONE 3G video stream without degrading image quality?
So here is what I want to accomplish with my Blackmagic ATEM mini pro (Let me know if its feasible) -
I want to be able to record and stream my show while also being able to send the program feed to other screens/projectors in the venue. Only problem is, I'm using the HDMI out for Multiview.
HDMI out - Multiview
USB out - SSD for recording
Ethernet out - Connect to network for streaming.
Is there a way to capture the program output (that I'm streaming) from the ATEM mini pro and send it to an NDI to HDMI receiver while also being able to send to a platform like Castr.io?
You'd need something like the ATEM Mini Extreme for this as it has 2x HDMI Outputs and 2x USB-C outputs, which would allow you to do what you want :) Hope this helps
@@AlexPettitt Cheers, I had a feeling that might be the answer.
Maybe the solution to my problem is to abandon Multiview out and use HDMI splitters to send all four inputs to a Multiview device before going into the ATEM.
Like the solutions people were using with the original ATEM mini (before Multiview was implemented)
Like this - ruclips.net/video/gy_oTlJUoz4/видео.html&ab_channel=AaronParecki
@@AlexPettitt Or I could try the set up that "Yay, you did it" used, by sending the ethernet out to a streaming bridge which then went to both a LiveU streamer and distributed to monitors.
ruclips.net/video/c0-RQuaAXoI/видео.html&ab_channel=Yay%2CYouDidIt%21
Is that NDI or NDI-HX? Also, is there a unit that do 2 or 4 channels with 2-4 HDMI outs (all in one unit)?
That is full NDI 👍 I don’t know of a single unit that can do 2 or 4 channels of NDI... but now I want to find one!! :)
Hi Fareed, just saw your question here and can confirm that we (BirdDog) have a 4K QUAD which is an SDI unit, currently no HDMI version though.
@@philllane4260 Thanks! An HDMI version (2 or 4 ports) would be a perfect companion to the ATEM MINI :). Also, support for NDI Full and HX would help with the many PTZ cameras that do not support Full NDI yet.
@@fkmobile1 thanks for the feed back on this, I'll pass this onto the R&D team.
I think the colour difference could be because hdmi is 4.4.4 vs N.D.I codec
Hi Alex, do you have a discord link? If yeah can I have it?
0:25 not sure about "broadcast quality" but yes good enough.
So couple things since I'm a dealer for BD. You never mentioned the devices are POE. And when you dumped NDI into OBS off the split you never brought in your audio mix.
Your comment got me curious. What does POE stand for, and could expand a bit on the workflow issue related to it? Thanks.
@@SonOfAdam94 PoE is ‘Power over Ethernet’ - it means the device can be powered using just the Ethernet cable as long as its connected to a PoE enabled switch.
@@AaronAbernethy Thanks for that.
Probably the splitter causing that gamma drop
ecellent. More NDI please. Any other brands ? or is birddog dominating. Im not pleased with the birddog cameras
Hi Alex, really struggled with bandwidth trying to live stream a big six day project out via Vimeo around the world, using the ATEM mini pro. Would the Birdog converter sort this and can I still run three cameras and a laptop out through the ATEM. I live in the UK but the project goes out from the US again this April. HELP. Prepared to invest in what’s needed, but struggling as a relative beginner.
Hey Julian,
If it's bandwidth struggles you're having for sending out your live stream, then you're going to want to look into bonded internet. I have two videos about this coming out real soon! If you need help in the near future, you can always email me (my email is in my about section) and we can arrange a one to one session :)
@@AlexPettitt Thanks Alex. That’d be a good idea.
how about wireless