The Drooling Narcissist (Reinforcement and Conditioning)
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024
- In his/her childhood, the narcissist experiences both operant conditioning (with negative and positive reinforcements) and classical conditioning. He applies the same template to all his/her future relationships.
classical conditioning
conditioned stimulus (CS)
unconditioned stimulus (UCS; US)
operant conditioning
instrumental conditioning
reinforcement
negative reinforcement
aversive stimulus
positive reinforcement
reinforcer
natural reinforcer
primary reinforcement
secondary reinforcement
reinforcement contingency
accidental reinforcement
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Thank you, prof. Vaknin! Your lectures are precious!
Learning more learning more about narcissists makes one sympathize with them, even though we are aware that they cannot be fixed and all the warnings (no contact / grey stone) are taken into account.
This is what I am learning in Psychology Class right now. I have to try to focus on the Class and learn without spiraling remember all my Trauma.
I am healed but it causes memories to come and go.
I don’t allow myself to get stuck there.
It all makes sense and I am proud of myself for making it through.
The Narc father tried so hard to stop me from fulfilling my purpose and he failed! 🙌
This is very profound. I am hooked. I have to understand this condition since I've tried and failed for 20 years to connect with my two children.
This is such a gift.
This is absolutely amazing and mind opening. Wow.
Thank you. An excellent, in depth explanation...
The very best video of you for me makes me cry the whole time.
Thanks Professor, much appreciated
Little Albert experiment.. this is a great example of conditioning
I never thought about the brain development piece in regards to children and being subjected to complex thought processes that their brains may not even be capable of yet. You mention, essentially, a certain type of time perception, combined with delayed gratification and needing to sort of predict the future without knowing what the outcome will be.
My parents were intermittent AF, like, very inconsistent with me specifically. less so with my older brother because he didn't need as much support as I did but I acted out more and became severely depressed and suicidal around 11 or 12 years old and so I think the burden I put on them when I asked for help with that stuff, made them secretly (maybe not so secretly, I may just have been used to them randomly taking away things/rewards I was promised if I completed certain goals or grades or achievements, etc) resent me.
I never knew what a punishment would be for example if I didn't get straight A's on my report cards. For example: I was always in Advanced classes, with language arts being my strongest subject. My 7th grade year, (the year I started self harming and just was severely depressed and suicidal ideation etc) I got a B- in my AP Language Arts class (mostly due to not completing homework) and I'm when my parents got the report card, they both sat on one side of the kitchen table, and I say alone on the other side, and I felt like they tore me apart. They didn't probably, but they told me how disappointed they were, rhetorically asked how I did so poorly and then told me all the things I would lose access to, none of which were ever previously mentioned as even potential consequences. They took my phone access away (this was before cell phones mostly so it was home phone access), so no calling friends, no going to friends houses or having friends over, no radio or music in my room or otherwise, no lock on my bedroom door anymore, no Internet access and no television.
I was so fucking angry and humiliated and yeah. Just pissed. That I stared at the kitchen table the entire time, biting the insides of my cheeks so I wouldn't cry. I told them I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of upsetting me over something so small, despite then taking everything from me that meant anything as a 12 year old. There was also no time limit on these restrictions and rewards or exceptions to these struct rules were sporadically thrown to me if I did as I was told. But we're often (seemingly) randomly taken away on pretenses or rules in place that I didn't know existed prior to breaking them. So for example I would be allowed to go over to a friend's slumber party because I'd been good lately, but I would not do something on time that I was unaware had a time limit or expected outcome from me and the opportunity of the slumber party would be taken away.
I stopped crying that year and started self harming. I literally couldn't cry until I started practicing in my mid 20s. And I had to be drunk at first. It took me years to be able to allow myself to naturally cry again after that stupid B- report card shit.
Yeah that felt unfair. They hated me sometimes it felt like. They did stuff like that a lot.
It seems that your excellence in language arts may have been difficient in one area anyway, sentence structure. Perhaps they failed to educate about run-on sentences?
I resonate with so much of what you’re sharing. It’s hard to put into words how confusing and painful it is when the very people who are supposed to protect and support us end up doing the opposite. I grew up with a bipolar single mom who was emotionally unavailable, inconsistent, bitter and demanding. One minute, she’d give me exactly what I wanted, and just when I’d start to feel a little safe, a little secure, she’d blow up. It was this constant cycle of "come here, it’s okay" followed by "fuck off, you're bad, useless". It left me always on edge, trying to figure out what I did wrong. It's more like being an emotional punching bag than being a child.
So, I get that feeling. That sense of being a burden, of having to suppress your emotions just to emotionally survive, it sticks with you. And I can see how the B- wasn’t just about a grade. It's feels like betrayal, like they were waiting for an excuse to take something from you or take their pain out on you. And no matter what you did, the rules kept shifting. Their love, or support, always felt conditional, but the conditions were never clear. You start to think something is wrong with you even though they are the problem, and it really sticks with you. It's a life long of healing from that pain and confusion.
I just want to say I see your pain. I know what it feels like to stop crying because it’s just too much, and turning to self-harm because you don’t know how else to release that inner hurt. I’ve been there too, shutting down emotionally, hurting myself, or even getting rid of things I cared about, almost as if to take control of my own losses-like, if it’s going to hurt, at least let me be the one to decide when.
It’s powerful that you’ve started allowing yourself to cry again. I never thought about getting drunk as a way to break through, but if I’d figured that out at the time, I probably would’ve tried it too. I’m glad you’re starting to reclaim that part of yourself, the part that feels and heals. You deserved so much more compassion back then, and I really hope you’re finding ways to give it to yourself now. Thank you for sharing your story-it’s brave, and reading it makes me feel like it’s okay to share too. I just want you to know: I hear you, and I get it.
@@joemendiuk perhaps that wasn't the point of my comment lol. If this were a school assignment I would have taken more time to perfect it. But I was just trying to get my thoughts out. What was your point of commenting it other than the fact that you just felt like being a dick? Carry on now. Perhaps get a hobby that improves your life rather than one that mildly jabs at random stranger's self esteem lol
@@fredkleuver5947 thank you so much. You pulled some things from my comment that I didn't even consciously connect, yet you are correct in your mention of them. Such as getting rid of or destroying things I cared about so I could control the outcome, as well as what lead me to thinking there is something inherently wrong with me because I was being reinforced one way or another due to their emotions or resentments as opposed to tangible or logical successes, failures, rules or expectations.
I never pieced together that that may be the reason why I started to feel worthless. Because yes, it was always something I was doing but it was rarely, if ever, clear or stated to me at all.
I remember my mom telling me when she was drunk one night when I was 16 how love is always conditional and how unconditional love doesn't exist. She said it like scoffing at me. Because she said it in response to me pondering the idea that unconditional love may not exist and she confirmed that by acting as if I were ridiculous for even thinking that it did!
Anyways, thank you for your comment. It was validating and a relief (however small or intangible of one, a relief nonetheless??) to read words from another human that they had a similar response to the same kind of unpredictable, spiteful, selfish parenting style.
I'm sorry that you had the same disorienting, untethered experience of that though. It really sucks not knowing what to do or what not to do.
I started just doing what I wanted cuz sometimes I'd get in trouble and sometimes they wouldn't really care too much. Most of my relationships or interactions revolve around me "mind reading" people's emotional state, the reason behind it and then attempting to improve it, somehow via observational deductions in their perceived emotional responses to whatever I would say or do.
I still do this. I still do this even if someone literally tells me exactly what their boundaries are. I will continue to cross them if they seem amiable or mostly okay after I push a button or boundary.
I hope I can become more present and aware and do more active listening so I can lessen that instinct/automatic behavior of mine. Being disrespectful because it doesn't immediately change someone's demeanor isn't okay. Yet their demeanor is all I pay attention to. Blablabla I am rambling now.
I digress. Thank you for a thoughtful reply to my comment 🥰💯🫂
@@joemendiuk you spelled deficient incorrectly too. Mr. Nitpicky lol
After generations of conditioning that produces narcissism, I wonder if genetics of this sort eventually evolve. The narc family I was acquainted with was native to their region; their ancestry had been around for 300 yrs. Relatives, past and present have histories of psychological issues, some resulting in incarceration, mental facilities and home isolation.
My husband’s entire family on both sides are narcissistic and he even has tendencies. The people in his town are a mixed bag of narcissistic people and some normal, so I think maybe it's an adaptation to the environment you're in. If my husband acts like a narcissistic idiot I stand up for myself and tell him to get lost and he will apologize to me. I think because he’s not a true narc, he can see how his actions hurt others. He's improved a lot but there's a ways to go.
@@belle8i the narc I knew always smiled if I said something like “get lost”. It seemed like they thrived on arguing, insults and name calling. After a while they’d all go to their corners until the next “session”. The 60 yr old man’s mother would end phone convos with “mummy loves you”.
So if you want the narcissist to love you in every sensible word, you gotta be an absolute bastard to them but then they’re expressing their love to you by being the same am I right?😂
G'Morning! 💜📚
Why would a parent use intermittent reinforcement? Unintentionally or intentionally? I think my mom did it on purpose and my dad did it unintentionally
Let the war begin😂
I'm drooling 🤤
How are you Dr. Vakinin?😊
Vaknin.
I know this likely hasn't been explored enough, in a clinical setting, to have a definitive answer, however I am wondering about your personal thoughts or professional opinion (if applicable) on psychedelic substances aiding with malleability as far as something like behavioral modification therapy?
Do you think substances or compounds (or whatever, such as MDMA, psilocybin or DMT) have potential in making more permanent progress or progress in general, like in the case with psychopathy or personality disorders, in rewiring the brain in a more vulnerable or malleable state?
You talk about neuroplasticity and the conditioning that result in personality disorders having to do, largely in part with the stage in brain development in which abuse occurs (As well as the strong suggestive/supporting evidence of the genetic/hereditary predisposition).
So my question is, do you personally or professionally think there could be clinical implications in regards to psychoactive drugs or substances that could positively assist in CBT or the like? DMT for example leaves one very disoriented and vulnerable, the 5 senses all blur together and disappear at the same time as far as surface experience goes but there are things happening in the brain during use as well that have my curiosity in the possibility of real change if different strategic therapies were administered while the patient were using it.
hi sarah, your story is sad. Seems like your parents could have used some coping skills. Do you have contact with them today? Just curious. Im 46 and not until June of last year did I know what a narcissist is.... and I'm still living with him today...
Search the therapies playlist.
@@samvaknin thank you.
❤Good Morning Sir.my chance here😂.
Please explain me how you call or how you call positive or negative reinforcment when father told me if you wish to dye please do it...I was 19 years old and he was neuropsychaitrist....
Why do you keep calling me ilinformed and charlatan? 😂😂😂😂