i'm not a fan of these new auto shift systems . it removes one of the most important aspects of riding a bike ,which is , conscious anticipation . a rider on any bicycle learns how to anticipate a necessary gear charge due to an upcoming hill or a stop light etc. , anticipation is also necessary in choosing the correct line in mountain biking . this can be most easily learned by riding a hardtail . a hardtail is not as forgiving as a full suspension if the safest line is not chosen . i mention this in conjunction with auto shift because of the ever increasing cost factor in new bikes . each new technology that is added to the bike whether a gimmick or legit upgrade increases the cost to a point that approaches the absurd . Most people will take the bait by the bike industry and look at these new additions as a necessity as opposed to embracing simplicity which keeps the price to a minimum . Remember MTBing is about the joy of being outside in nature and exposing the senses to fresh air , pleasant sounds , beautiful visuals etc. these things can be enjoyed on any bike and are not enhanced by technology .
Shifting on a Mt bike has always been about anticipating whats coming up next, its a basic skill. These fancy electric auto shift mechs are great I suppose, as has been noted if you shatter or twist the rear mech on trail...............it will not be a cheap fix what so ever. And mt bikers break things. They are catering to people who havent been riding mt bikes, but want to jump in on the E Mt bike craze. Dirtbikers to some degree are getting E Mt bikes.
No matter what SRAM builds, at least on manual bikes, they are a step or two behind Shimano. People buy and use SRAM, but they are just a little on the ginky side. The multi batteries on their e shifting is not a plus. Their E bike system could be great though! I know how to shift a bike, so dont really see the need for auto shift, but there has to be something big/shiny/new every year if not every 6 months. I will ride my Spectral ON CF8 for some years, until things settle down some. It works great for what I do. 900 WH I have done 85 miles on it, with 4000' of climb, still had battery left. I listed it for sale just to see what happened, at an average price for a nearly new late 2022 bike..................absolutely zero interest. The only thing that might happen would be ridiculous low ballers. And there are none anything like it for sale used around here. There are SO many E Mt bikes coming on market, just one after the other. 7000 euro as "good pricing".
As someone who has been down the road a bit with e-bikes, make sure you focus on LBS support. If you have something go wrong it’s nice to have a mechanic nearby. My motorcycle is easier to work on than some of the stuff involved with emtbs. For instance, Nukeproof makes some sweet rigs, but I’d be screwed about local LBS support near me in the States. EMTBs are a whole different animal
The SRAM motor mount on the transition looks a lot better than the BOSCH . I cant believe how Bosch only went with tiny M5 bolts that hold the plates and are screwed in the motor. (and not even all the way through...) On my Radon Render I had them come loose and the play actually caused a part of my frame to break off, really disappointing for a 2 year old bike.
I'm 64, almost 65. That said, I have been holding out. Nice bikes, yes. Not light enough yet. They keep increasing the torque on the big ones and SLs aren't light enough. Weight is the biggest penalty in off road, well, anything. Power to weight is the factor in racing and efficiency for consumer products. Battery technology needs to get smaller and lighter. That single factor will lower bike weights, allow more optimal battery placement, and create better alternatives for optimal balance. As it is, the weight is way too high and forward, because of battery technology. 30 - 35 lbs max weight for a medium, mid level components and a price between 5K and 7K out the door. Carbon will get there faster than aluminum, but aluminum could get to the 35ish range.I'm still waiting and don't have that much time left.
U mean brose motor. Giant syndrive isnt giant motor ITS Yamaha. Same for sram and brose. I dont get why all saying sram motor. I guess its better for the clicks and getting ppl interested
Exciting stuff! Been eyeing the Rapcon Pmax TQ, but the Heckler SL might suit me better as the Simplon in 170 outfit may be a bit too much for my riding, got to be realistic here 😁 Been looking for something to smash trails and steep-ish decents type red/black on with my 180/80 (metric) dadbod for a few months now as there isn't time for adequate analog rides between diaper and feeding times 😁 Next year is going to be exciting. And expensive 🤑
@@SamsBikesThanks, that's my feeling as well, never felt underbiked on my 2015 GT Carbon Pro with a 160 fork upgrade. That was an enduro machine back in the day, now the geo screams trail/XC 🤣
Hey Sam, 2023 is lighting up with groundbreaking full-powered e-MTB motors! 🚀 Imagine being the trailblazer to unravel a head-to-head comparison of these beasts, like the SRAM, Panasonic, Shimano DU-EP801, Bosch Performance Line CX, Bafang and others that have roared into the scene this year. Your in-depth analysis and authentic take would be a game-changer, making this a must-see showdown that the e-MTB world is thirsting for! Who wouldn’t hit like and share on a riveting 2023 motor face-off brought to life by none other than you? 🌟 The community is buzzing, and your channel could be the epicenter of this electrifying discourse. Let’s rev up the excitement and ride the wave of innovation together! 🚵♀🔥 Cheers to igniting the 2023 e-MTB motor narrative! 🎉 Emil
Nice one Sam, great bikes, what would you say is good for an entry choice from this list. I’ve been looking at the transition, awesome spec for cost and versatility, something I feel I could grow with, but modern geo to last. I’m not a black diamond level, or probably will. A small rider with limitations due to health, but that’s where these SL or which ever name is used in the PR tomorrow 🙂 . Would be really nice to see bikes reviewed for these riders. Bid fan of your content and delivery, always feel informed and I could tackle anything after your positivity 🤙
saw some rumors on a yamaha e-mtb new prototype with a high pivot. after gas gas and honda in DH almost 20 years ago, it is time to see real (e-)bikes from real moto constructors(no, the ktm and husq ebikes are shite, emtbs for non-mtb-ers). Sram E(brose)-powertrain is not that special and extremely expensive..., not sure it's worth it.
i understand you need to constantly post new content to stay relevant for youtube's crack addicted algorithms (which should be revised to focus on quality not quantity from creators imo) but these bike reviews are a bit lacking imo. I appreciate you are providing a consolidated source for multiple bikes in one spot that aligns with your website, just looking at the static online website pictures or the press kit leave me a bit lacking for "actual" information and details. This review was actually better than most imo, but if there is a way you can put a twist on the "bike review" or "best of" might make them stand out, or just maybe cover some of the other cool tech or events in the biking industry like rampage, for example. Dunno, just my $.002 keep it up, overall I look forward to your content, and very few have the energy that you do in your work. -D
Hey mate I appreciate your comment and I do understand you but this just the news of the new bikes and it’s as simple as that maybe check out my Pinion Gearbox video that’s a review.
@@SamsBikes understood, was speaking more generally of your "best of" or "bikes for month/year/type" reviews. Yes that video was interesting, and I think in depth "tech" videos are always interesting, would love someone to really go deep into the calibration/tuning of ebikes, so we could explore what the actual differences between the sram vs brose/spesh system actually entails. Keep it up, good stuff, and your recent vids with our friend here in the states on the pacific coast, was nice as this industry doesn't always provide similar options for US vs Euro.
On ya mate. I’ll always support an Aussie brother. Glad to see you’re doing well on RUclips lately! Reach for the stars! By the way, do you know if Sram’s motor is based on the Brose Mag with more features or even a tweaked power curve, or anything? Or is it literally just the Brose Mag with a Sram logo on it?
And look at the German/Austrian Brand called NOX Cycles! They also have the 112 Nm and 800w peak Sachs RS ( now BMZ RS)... Killer bikes... The Enduro with 180/180, Mullet ( full 29er compatible), 720Wh bat. starting @ approx. 6000€
And Pole bycicles: like their Gravity, approx 6000 US machined alloy...great stuff.... not so much talked about either... All the other brands get so much recognition... But there are so many good ones to talk about and to review....
Cool video as always Sam! All of them look amazing!!! I'd go for the Propain too, but coming from a moto background, maybe I'd give a chance to the Gas Gas.
How big is Propain as a manufacturer? How long have they existed? These bikes are somewhat similar, I do wonder about smaller newer builders offering backup for what they sell. Ive been riding a Canyon Endurace roadbike, so a Spectral ON CF8 seemed like a great choice for the general usage I planned, it hasnt disappointed at all.
I have a Rossignol Mandate Shift Deore 13 which had great geometry, EP8 630wh battery. It’s pretty dialed but would love to try the Santa Cruz Heckler SL. They say it has close to same range as my bike but more maneuverable. 🤔
I still really like the older Brose motors. Really quiet with no rattles and natural power delivery. Didn't like their reliability, but never versions have been good for me.
Aluminum can and does crack, no fixing it. Due to heat treating. Lots of places fix carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is used in many high stress applications in all sorts of industries. Its WAY better and tougher than it used to be. Its not sensitive.
@@bradsanders6954 yeah right, got a lot better... If you see it in time... If not, and If it breakes while you are on it.. Good luck... Did you watch Paris Roubaix? Will not take the chance. I dont know the numbers but if alloy bends and does not break you can continue. You can recycle alloy, but carbon not realy, the epoxy or other glues will deterioate... alloy "never" ...And the price one should factor in too... If price is not a thing, then I would go titan /magnesium.... Carbon ... nah...
Yah. My Canyon e bike was a 5600.00 bike, to my door it was 7000.00. So a 7000.00 bike can hit 8000.00 I can buy a lightly used 12" travel, street legal, 50 HP, 500cc KTM dual sport bike for way less.
@@bradsanders6954 Yes it shows industry greed and most bicycles is produced in asia: batteries, frames, motors and many other items 😆its a complete rip-off. Only bike-brands like specialized that has service partners everywhere can justify a bit high price point imo. Still want one tho but prob buying a older used one when the new transmission motors hits the market 😆
There you go legend rider! I hope you liked this video!
Come on - we all know that Brose Mag S is a ride away from motor failure….. such a dumb move by Sram. Not even Specialized want it anymore……
Are spesh going to a different motor supplier?
i'm not a fan of these new auto shift systems . it removes one of the most important aspects of riding a bike ,which is , conscious anticipation .
a rider on any bicycle learns how to anticipate a necessary gear charge due to an upcoming hill or a stop light etc. ,
anticipation is also necessary in choosing the correct line in mountain biking . this can be most easily learned by riding a hardtail . a hardtail is not as forgiving as a full suspension if the safest line is not chosen .
i mention this in conjunction with auto shift because of the ever increasing cost factor in new bikes . each new technology that is added to the bike whether a gimmick or legit upgrade increases the cost to a point that approaches the absurd . Most people will take the bait by the bike industry and look at these
new additions as a necessity as opposed to embracing simplicity which keeps the price to a minimum .
Remember MTBing is about the joy of being outside in nature and exposing the senses to fresh air , pleasant sounds , beautiful visuals etc. these things can be enjoyed on any bike and are not enhanced by technology .
Yep i get you but it’s 2023 and you know the bike industry will keep inventing
Shifting on a Mt bike has always been about anticipating whats coming up next, its a basic skill.
These fancy electric auto shift mechs are great I suppose, as has been noted if you shatter or twist the rear mech on trail...............it will not be a cheap fix what so ever. And mt bikers break things.
They are catering to people who havent been riding mt bikes, but want to jump in on the E Mt bike craze.
Dirtbikers to some degree are getting E Mt bikes.
No matter what SRAM builds, at least on manual bikes, they are a step or two behind Shimano.
People buy and use SRAM, but they are just a little on the ginky side. The multi batteries on their e shifting is not a plus.
Their E bike system could be great though!
I know how to shift a bike, so dont really see the need for auto shift, but there has to be something big/shiny/new every year if not every 6 months. I will ride my Spectral ON CF8 for some years, until things settle down some.
It works great for what I do. 900 WH I have done 85 miles on it, with 4000' of climb, still had battery left.
I listed it for sale just to see what happened, at an average price for a nearly new late 2022 bike..................absolutely zero interest.
The only thing that might happen would be ridiculous low ballers.
And there are none anything like it for sale used around here.
There are SO many E Mt bikes coming on market, just one after the other. 7000 euro as "good pricing".
Hello Sir, good vid! As you’re in Spain could you charm your way onto a Mondraker Neat???😮
Hahaha 😝 let’s see
As someone who has been down the road a bit with e-bikes, make sure you focus on LBS support. If you have something go wrong it’s nice to have a mechanic nearby. My motorcycle is easier to work on than some of the stuff involved with emtbs. For instance, Nukeproof makes some sweet rigs, but I’d be screwed about local LBS support near me in the States. EMTBs are a whole different animal
Canyon Strive:ON CFR or Turbo Levo Expert, having ridden both what is Sam saying? Any other considerations?
Propain for me.
Other than that the Simplon Pmax Pinion (although it’s price is very steep) is a bike to look out for in 2024.
Totally agree mate the Ekano looks amazing
The SRAM motor mount on the transition looks a lot better than the BOSCH . I cant believe how Bosch only went with tiny M5 bolts that hold the plates and are screwed in the motor. (and not even all the way through...) On my Radon Render I had them come loose and the play actually caused a part of my frame to break off, really disappointing for a 2 year old bike.
Thanks Sam for bringing us news every week! Here you go a new subscriber. I’m looking forward to test the new Sram powertrain system 😮!!
Welcome 🙏 rider and thanks for the kind words
It’s really crazy, new e-bikes almost every month! Thanks to keep us up to date!!!!
Thanks Rider!
What I want to know is when is some one gonna make some decent bolt on mud guards..that work ..!!?
Preferably in Carbon !
I'm 64, almost 65. That said, I have been holding out. Nice bikes, yes. Not light enough yet. They keep increasing the torque on the big ones and SLs aren't light enough. Weight is the biggest penalty in off road, well, anything. Power to weight is the factor in racing and efficiency for consumer products. Battery technology needs to get smaller and lighter. That single factor will lower bike weights, allow more optimal battery placement, and create better alternatives for optimal balance. As it is, the weight is way too high and forward, because of battery technology. 30 - 35 lbs max weight for a medium, mid level components and a price between 5K and 7K out the door. Carbon will get there faster than aluminum, but aluminum could get to the 35ish range.I'm still waiting and don't have that much time left.
Just get one and don’t waste any more time
U mean brose motor. Giant syndrive isnt giant motor ITS Yamaha. Same for sram and brose. I dont get why all saying sram motor. I guess its better for the clicks and getting ppl interested
Clearly articulated in the video
There's no "H" in SRAM. It's not "SHRAM".
Oh thanks 🙏 sorry about that I’ll try harder next time
Or you can spend the same range of money on the new Pinion system and never deal with derailleurs and chains ever again…
Exciting stuff!
Been eyeing the Rapcon Pmax TQ, but the Heckler SL might suit me better as the Simplon in 170 outfit may be a bit too much for my riding, got to be realistic here 😁
Been looking for something to smash trails and steep-ish decents type red/black on with my 180/80 (metric) dadbod for a few months now as there isn't time for adequate analog rides between diaper and feeding times 😁
Next year is going to be exciting. And expensive 🤑
Mate the Heckler all day long the 160-150 e-bikes are the way to go!
@@SamsBikesThanks, that's my feeling as well, never felt underbiked on my 2015 GT Carbon Pro with a 160 fork upgrade. That was an enduro machine back in the day, now the geo screams trail/XC 🤣
@kammarkar hahaha I know things have changed slot
Hey Sam,
2023 is lighting up with groundbreaking full-powered e-MTB motors! 🚀 Imagine being the trailblazer to unravel a head-to-head comparison of these beasts, like the SRAM, Panasonic, Shimano DU-EP801, Bosch Performance Line CX, Bafang and others that have roared into the scene this year. Your in-depth analysis and authentic take would be a game-changer, making this a must-see showdown that the e-MTB world is thirsting for!
Who wouldn’t hit like and share on a riveting 2023 motor face-off brought to life by none other than you? 🌟 The community is buzzing, and your channel could be the epicenter of this electrifying discourse. Let’s rev up the excitement and ride the wave of innovation together! 🚵♀🔥
Cheers to igniting the 2023 e-MTB motor narrative! 🎉
Emil
Hahaha thanks 🙏 for you comment! I would love to i Just all the bikes which is harder to get than you think but I’ll try
Nice one Sam, great bikes, what would you say is good for an entry choice from this list. I’ve been looking at the transition, awesome spec for cost and versatility, something I feel I could grow with, but modern geo to last. I’m not a black diamond level, or probably will. A small rider with limitations due to health, but that’s where these SL or which ever name is used in the PR tomorrow 🙂 . Would be really nice to see bikes reviewed for these riders. Bid fan of your content and delivery, always feel informed and I could tackle anything after your positivity 🤙
Hey mate thanks for the kind words! Maybe send me a Instagram private message and we can have a chat and pick you the right bike.
Awesome video bro 😎 I love that Gas Gas bike and the Nukeproof 🩶🩶🩶🩶🩶🩶
@@SamsBikes that’s so kind of you, will jump on insta. Respect your time, and finding time to reply, means a lot 👍
7000euro is great motorcycle buying amount . For a bicycle? Lol
Quite fancy the Megawatt. Already have a Brose S on my Levo and absolutely love how quiet and smooth the motor is compared to my Bosch CX bike
I think my pick out of the New Sram is the Propain but the Megawatt is bloody nice as well!
saw some rumors on a yamaha e-mtb new prototype with a high pivot. after gas gas and honda in DH almost 20 years ago, it is time to see real (e-)bikes from real moto constructors(no, the ktm and husq ebikes are shite, emtbs for non-mtb-ers). Sram E(brose)-powertrain is not that special and extremely expensive..., not sure it's worth it.
Yes I just see a photo of the new Yamaha looks interesting
@@SamsBikes yep, anyone interested could search in google(or other search drives) for yamaha y-00z mtb from Japan Mobility Show 2023.
I may need the auto shifting and as I’m always in wrong gear, specially when I stop and have to start again 😅
That, is part of learning to ride any bike. Just gotta practice.
witch model did you like the best : Kelly theos F90 or the canyon strive on ?
Both amazing I think the Strive has the edge for the bosch motor
I want them all! It's all just so damn fun! 😂
i understand you need to constantly post new content to stay relevant for youtube's crack addicted algorithms (which should be revised to focus on quality not quantity from creators imo) but these bike reviews are a bit lacking imo. I appreciate you are providing a consolidated source for multiple bikes in one spot that aligns with your website, just looking at the static online website pictures or the press kit leave me a bit lacking for "actual" information and details. This review was actually better than most imo, but if there is a way you can put a twist on the "bike review" or "best of" might make them stand out, or just maybe cover some of the other cool tech or events in the biking industry like rampage, for example. Dunno, just my $.002 keep it up, overall I look forward to your content, and very few have the energy that you do in your work.
-D
Hey mate I appreciate your comment and I do understand you but this just the news of the new bikes and it’s as simple as that maybe check out my Pinion Gearbox video that’s a review.
@@SamsBikes understood, was speaking more generally of your "best of" or "bikes for month/year/type" reviews. Yes that video was interesting, and I think in depth "tech" videos are always interesting, would love someone to really go deep into the calibration/tuning of ebikes, so we could explore what the actual differences between the sram vs brose/spesh system actually entails.
Keep it up, good stuff, and your recent vids with our friend here in the states on the pacific coast, was nice as this industry doesn't always provide similar options for US vs Euro.
On ya mate. I’ll always support an Aussie brother. Glad to see you’re doing well on RUclips lately! Reach for the stars! By the way, do you know if Sram’s motor is based on the Brose Mag with more features or even a tweaked power curve, or anything? Or is it literally just the Brose Mag with a Sram logo on it?
Thanks Aussie legend! From my knowledge it’s a stock Sram Mag S motor but could be wrong 😑
@@SamsBikes Yeah that’s what I’m reading so far too. I hoped they’d have tweaked it at least a little, but it’s still a great motor! Cheers mate.
The Propain Ekano looks sick.
Yep totally 👍
And look at the German/Austrian Brand called NOX Cycles! They also have the 112 Nm and 800w peak Sachs RS ( now BMZ RS)... Killer bikes... The Enduro with 180/180, Mullet ( full 29er compatible), 720Wh bat. starting @ approx. 6000€
Wow 🤩 that sounds very interesting let me check it out
@@SamsBikes And? You like 'em?
And Pole bycicles: like their Gravity, approx 6000 US machined alloy...great stuff.... not so much talked about either... All the other brands get so much recognition... But there are so many good ones to talk about and to review....
Cool video as always Sam! All of them look amazing!!! I'd go for the Propain too, but coming from a moto background, maybe I'd give a chance to the Gas Gas.
Thanks mate! Yep the Gas Gas looks amazing
How big is Propain as a manufacturer? How long have they existed?
These bikes are somewhat similar, I do wonder about smaller newer builders offering backup for what they sell.
Ive been riding a Canyon Endurace roadbike, so a Spectral ON CF8 seemed like a great choice for the general usage I planned, it hasnt disappointed at all.
The Ekano CF ist my favorite! Great with the complete Sram Parts. Near to my favorite Specialized Turbo Levo😅
I have a Rossignol Mandate Shift Deore 13 which had great geometry, EP8 630wh battery. It’s pretty dialed but would love to try the Santa Cruz Heckler SL. They say it has close to same range as my bike but more maneuverable. 🤔
Tried the Heckler SL and it’s sick.
Riding Megatower now and couldn’t see much difference.
Probably my next summer bike
Propain and Transition for me...and do not forget there is a new Kenevo coming late 2023 or first half of 2024! Keep up the good work!
Yep how good do they look and I have not heard about the new kenevo! Exciting times
@@SamsBikes About the Kenevo, it is rumors Sam, nothing certain, but it needs a new model anyways!
Thanks the updates. Appreciate the specs. Hope to see the video review comparisons..
Thanks 🙏
I still really like the older Brose motors. Really quiet with no rattles and natural power delivery. Didn't like their reliability, but never versions have been good for me.
Looks like the megawatt could be one of the last bikes from nukeproof. They look to be going into administration 😮
I'm curious what Specialized is going to do. Stick with brose or go to sram or what.
I would love to see, that brands always include alloy... Especially for Enduro /DH bikes.... Carbon is way to sensitiv...
Yes that’s a good point!
Aluminum can and does crack, no fixing it. Due to heat treating.
Lots of places fix carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is used in many high stress applications in all sorts of industries.
Its WAY better and tougher than it used to be. Its not sensitive.
@@bradsanders6954 yeah right, got a lot better... If you see it in time... If not, and If it breakes while you are on it.. Good luck... Did you watch Paris Roubaix? Will not take the chance. I dont know the numbers but if alloy bends and does not break you can continue. You can recycle alloy, but carbon not realy, the epoxy or other glues will deterioate... alloy "never" ...And the price one should factor in too... If price is not a thing, then I would go titan /magnesium.... Carbon ... nah...
@@bradsanders6954 ruclips.net/user/shorts1r2YyH45x6I?si=fT-u8D-U4w1gaug0 modern carbon= much stronger... really?
At 9000euro i rather buy a used car that can go more then 25km/h. What a joke.
Yah. My Canyon e bike was a 5600.00 bike, to my door it was 7000.00.
So a 7000.00 bike can hit 8000.00 I can buy a lightly used 12" travel, street legal, 50 HP, 500cc KTM dual sport bike for way less.
@@bradsanders6954 Yes it shows industry greed and most bicycles is produced in asia: batteries, frames, motors and many other items 😆its a complete rip-off. Only bike-brands like specialized that has service partners everywhere can justify a bit high price point imo. Still want one tho but prob buying a older used one when the new transmission motors hits the market 😆
Mega if it was 29 not mallet, propane looks badass wish the wild had sram system 😜
I want a hardtail gravel bike...
Jeez
These prices seem ridiculous
Santa Cruz all the way dude!
Wait for the Rapcon Pmax Pinion ... changes all.
It would be interesting to get your thoughts on the crestline?
I love the Crestline!
@@SamsBikes What bike dont you love?
mondraker.....
Propain Ekano all the way!!
It’s a beast !
Can’t wait for a sram SL motor 🎉🤑
Really? That sounds interesting tell me more
As usual Sam ,great video.
Thanks 🙏 Lee
Where from to buy ?
Gasgas is the hottest
Coool
Thanks great info
Thanks 🙏
Go go RUclips algorithm....
Thanks rider
@@SamsBikesCheers Sam. Greetings from Peebles in Scotland.
Wow specialized is due 😊
No POLE?
Good point
The ktm light ebike looks good too
Yep true that