DEATHCORE Essential bands debate with Bradley Zorgdrager | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
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Episode 18: DEATHCORE tackles one of the newest branches of the metal family tree. Host Sam Dunn welcomes guest journalist BRADLEY ZORGDRAGER of Exclaim! to help us figure out where this movement came from, who are the essential bands, and what it's all about. Is this just a nicer word for nu metal? Come and find out LIVE on Thursday May 26 at 4pm EST. But come ready to fight!
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Show starts at 5:15
thanks dude. I thought i was into a very horrible acid trip where the world suddenly stopped even though i didn´t take no acid
Would it hurt them to edit it out? It's very easy to do
FaerieKim No no no.
pablo - you want a gap of nothing at the beginning of the video?
To be fair it doesnt really start for another 15 minutes
So basically Bring Me The Horizon is the Linkin Park of deathcore. Where they were relevant in sound at a certain period of time, but changed their music later on and stopped supporting the genre they influenced.
Daniel Walters They were good and musically very relevant back then.
they basically went deathcore, metalcore and now I dont really know what you would call what they do
It’s funny you bring the LP comparison because they basically just rip LP off now.
CaylenDarling exactly what i was gonna say lmao. But i think all their albums up to semptiternal were dopd af and even that one had some bangers
Cap'n Grim honestly, I love their early work, but I think the songwriting on Sempiternal and TTS is leagues better. Suicide Season holds a place in my heart, but I won’t let nostalgia sway me.
Slam Death Metal
Brutal Death Metal
Technical Death Metal
Old School Death Metal
Make it happen.
We need this ^
aka "the good stuff".
+fuknwastd 1) Slam does suck but it has made a significant impact (same with deathcore)
2) You can say that about a lot of genres
3) overly simplified
4) bands like possessed and cannibal corpse can sound worlds apart.
Slam Death Metal!!!! lml
I always thought slam death was the same thing as deathcore? At least that's what I was told. Can someone tell me the difference?
No one:
Sam: right. yup. sure. okay. sure, sure. yup. okay.
ANIMOSITY just like The Red Chord they were hugely influential to the genre and one of the better bands to come out of that time who didnt just rely on breakdowns and actually had influence from old school hardcore mixed in with death metal. Such a great band wish theyd come back
Animosity are so cool. I wish I could have included them.
Never able to watch these episodes in direct and watch religiously all the reloads on youtube! Great show, keep on going!
I just recently got into deathcore, and the most brutal band of the entire genre has to be Infant Annihilator, in my opinion. Lorna Shore are pretty sick too. The grooviest of the bunch is Slaughter To Prevail.
This list needs an update.
Those bands have nothing on the Brutal Deathcore bands during the Myspace era
@@slaythembeforememy brother in Christ, Infant Annihilator is Myspace drathcore. They just came out after that era. Even the name is Myspace drathcore as fuck
@@YaBoyJRock42069 IA is too technical and too slick in production. I'm talking about the old Myspace bands that were raw, sloppy, and a mix of melodic DM with BDM and Hardcore and just released demos and EPs more than anything else
Personally, I don't like deathcore, metalcore, and the newer forms of hardcore; yet it is quite "refreshing" in a sense to expand my music/bands knowledge
+1
Ximon Trespalacios Deathcore in my opinion are a next step up from Death Metal, i'm open to new genres and this genre is my favorite
To a degree it was but there were heavier death metal bands out there in the 90's who weren't using hardcore elements.
@@ff7soldierff7 every thrash metal, death metal and black metal bands are influenced by 80s hardcore to a certain degree.
Everyone talks about Suffocation but I beleive that the mid to late 90's BDM bands like Dying Fetus, Cryptopsy, and Skinless did more to lay the foundation for deathcore.
Where is Through the Eyes of the Dead? Bloodlust was one of the first great Deathcore albums.
I think Oceano and As Blood Runs Black should be up there, they were huge among Deathcore fans
Hi Christian, thanks for your input! I think ABRB really pissed away their momentum by taking so long to release something after 'Allegiance,' and when they did it didn't even close to hold up to that album. As far as Oceano, they had the opposite problem where they released a follow-up to 'Depths' a year and a half later, and it wasn't nearly as good, so I think it made fans skeptical of the band as a whole.
ABRB's allegiance is pure deathcore gold
@Aggressive Tendencies Chelsea Grin should've been on there. They are just as important at keeping deathcore alive as Thy Art Is Murder are. Not only have they emerged around the same time and released their first album the same year, they are also commercially successful by the genre's standards.
Lamo oceano is so freakin wack and generic
ABRB is straight up metalcore, not deathcore
How was ANTAGONY not on this LIST???
ANTAGONY deserves an important spot on that list all day dudes. 💯🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
They mention them. and made it to the list. skip to 20:35
@@weneedmerch Apprecite it! How the Hell did I miss That?? 🤘🏼
what about core-core mixed with core with a slight core influence
Fair point.
It's weird seeing Brad with short hair and no sleeve.
Dude, right? Them old days!
Ain’t that the truth
Aggressive Tendencies, dude, have you been already a part of Banger TV team or you were only the invited guest here?
Suffocation is Death Metal, just a "inspiration" for Deathcore bands, right?
yes
Carlos Henrique Botêlho the reason they put them above is because they were one of the first death metal bands to incorporate elements of hardcore like breakdowns. sort of a proto-deathcore thing.
Ohhh sure!
No, Oldschool Deathcore mix Grind Core and Death Metal with Hardcore style Later Hardcore - Death Metal/ Metalcore - Death Metal. Deathcore Breakdowns come from Hardcore influences ( sometimes Metal like Groove Metal ) Suffocation and Dying fetus is not a Deathcore inspiration. Deathcore is a genre created by Hardcore musicians inspired by any Death Metal or Grind Core. Just stop reading Wikipedia
@Nick Howley Breakdowns are not an exclusive element of hardcore. Better : metal bands did breakdown before hardcore bands.
People need to let go of the idea that a band needs to be particularly talented to be influential. Bradley is right in adding Bring Me The Horizon to the list, his argument makes sense. Either you like them or not, they are part of the history of the genre, get over it.
Thanks Lucas! They're far from my favourite, in fact that album is pretty hard to listen to for me, but they earned their place.
BMTH was the Gateway to Deathcore and growls back in the 2000s so they deserve they place
We need Death/Doom...
there already is a doom episode
I know, I already see it. Put thats only doom, like classic doom. Not death/doom, is diferent.
ah ok, i misunderstood my bad =) i love your soilwork logo tho =)
+Cesar Burgen
Nah we really dont need that.
41:57 - I love how happy Sam looks when he says "I never thought I would see those words..."! Like he's been around for so long in the metal community and finds himself in this beautiful future where metal have evolved into so many different directions.
I remember a show in Columbia, SC where it was Despised Icon, The Red Chord, See You Next Tuesday, and All Shall Perish. That shit was normal back then. Such bangers.
Saw that same tour, except in MD we had Darkest Hour on the bill as well.
I love deathcore cuz i love death metal and hardcore. So i love the deathmetal sound with the hardcore breakdowns and i love that most deathcore songs are under 4 mins. Cuz i come from a punk and hardcore background and have a short attention span. So i love it my favorite band is the Acacia Strain and Carnifax, and Whitechapel
AS BLOOD RUNS BLACK.
I think Brad evolves around the beard. The beard is the focal point of it's physical existence and development. As long as the beard exists, Brad exists.
I knew he was going to say The Red Chord, and I am happy for that, but I really REALLY hope they mention Embodyment. I really doubt they will, but it goes without saying that Embodyment is one of the most important bands in Deathcore history. They are pioneers.
Embodyment rip, man! I just feel they didn't make it quite as far as, say, The Red Chord.
I'm glad I wasnt the only one that remembers embodyment they were way before the redcore or any of these bands on the list
Looks like once again they're keeping the best for last, Death Metal
I might be a bit late to the party but I'm supprised at the gates didn't even get a mention as proto deathcore eventhough they were very influential to the genre
Not as directly as metalcore and death metal bands.
Starts at 5:11 if anyone is wondering
Still gotta add post metal!
It's on the list!
Nice! But please! Use atmospheric sludge metal as the name. It's so much more descriptive
BANGER please dont call it atmospheric sludge. please call it post metal. a broad genre like this needs the broadest moniker
Pakkemi "atmospheric sludge" is not nearly descriptive enough! It's Post-Metal because it's the Metal version of Post-Rock...granted there is Sludge in there but that is not as far as the sound goes!
Where can one see the whole metal family tree being worked out, that you have so far?
job for a cowboy would be more of a new wave of death metal steering away from the Florida death metal sound. I would however give them credit for being one of the pioneers.
I agree that they are more death metal post-Doom EP, but that EP was crucial to this subgenre.
I'd love to see the defining albums for each sub-genere, given that bands change drastically
The Acacia Strain was so influential IMO. Maybe they don't truly fit into deathcore but they were definitely cut from the same cloth and are a large influence on the beatdown/slowcore bands that are popular now (Black Tongue, Traitors, etc.)
I've heard people call that stuff "down-tempo deathcore," and I agree that Acacia Strain is hugely influential to that stuff.
the red chord hmmm wasn't expecting that but glad to see it! miss that band
You guys didn't mention the SoCal deathcore scene or the Australia deathcore scene
Spin kick to the head will have you crying lol
Dude it’s 2021 no one dresses like that. There are more metal heads at deathcore shows. Have fun watching the metal scene die because ass hats like you are still gatekeeping and hating everything that not “true metal”.
Deathcore is one of my all-time favorite generes! I was in the hardcore metalcore scene back when it first popped off. Instantly fell in love. Suicide Were the ones who introduced me I'd say. Then Job For A Cowboy came right up behind. 2 of my favorites didn't make it up there. One might be because they weren't and still aren't popular... And that would be A DIFFERENT BREED OF KILLER. The other that should have been up there is THROUGH THE EYES OF THE DEAD!!
Oh man, I remember ADBOK. TTEOTD rip too, though I think they got better when they went more straight-ahead death metal on 'Malice.'
It saddens me to not see any 90s Deathcore bands being mentioned Such as: Deformity, Legion, Lethargy, Damaged, Spread The Disease, End Of One, Mörser, Upheaval, Dyingrace, Abnegation, Antagony.
The OG DxC needs some appreciation too
to me the first red chord album is what death metal and metal core heavy hardcore sounds like. they said in an interview they were influenced by suffocation and buried alive and that's a lot what it sounds like.
I definitely would have stuck Winds of Plague under the main branch of Deathcore, not off on the side, Decimate the Weak was a fucking HUGE record that definitely inspired quite a few bands. Maybe it’s because WoP constantly got the short end of the stick with “public” response, always getting clowned on.
In the end I had them in the main branch, just we forgot to move them over. I did decide they made it, though!
I am so glad someone mentioned the blackened element of Carnifex today. This was filmed before their record 'Slow Death' came out. That album really got me into Carnifex and I think are pioneering it more today.
In fact, if Carnifex continue where they're going then I would put them under Blackened Death once that episode happens
they really acted disrespectful here in terms of carnifex,
Texas band EMBODYMENT should have been on this list. They were doing that deathcore style in 1998 long before any of those bands. They started off as a brutal death metal band in the early 90s and had more of a new school hardcore style in the mid 90s with their other demo. Then embrace the eternal was totally what ended up being deathcore. The only reason they probably dont get the props they deserve is because of their Christian beliefs . That album was ahead of its time they are now a band called the Famine. Check this album out. They are the first deathcore band .you can tell they were in influenced by bands like suffocation but also hardcore bands like snapcase...
They didnt mention Black Metal influence on Deathcore
They mentioned Carnifex had brought that to Deathcore...if we were to have another band mentioned...it would be Lorna Shore...
It hurts the heart that I dont even have to see Suffocation mentioned with a bunch of Hot Topic bands..moving on to another episode..keep em coming.
Very happy to see Carnifex on the list. Wish some bands like And Hell Followed With and Make Them Suffer could have made it on, but I understand that this was done in priority of influence. Great video.
The singer from All Hell Followed With now plays in a band called Sunlights Bane, who are pretty damn cool. Check 'em out!
Thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to check them out.
Let me know what you think!
And hell followed with and make them suffer? Naaaaaa
The list needed more bands. The Acacia Strain belongs at the top as well, they helped pioneer deathcore whether they like it or not, and among the second list of bands you also need Emmure, Whitechapel, and Carnifex.
Infant Annihilator, Lorna Shore, Slaughter To Prevail, Vulvodynia...
Glad to see that White Chapel got put on the board. Given the chance, I would have brought up Soilent Green as well. Awesome series Banger!
What about the Down - tempo Deathcore bands like Black Tongue, Traitors, PRY, Feign and Bodysnatcher although their not deathcore, much more of a new genere from the last 2 - 4 years
Black Sheep Wall
Isnt that Slam??
%100 agree on The Red Chord and Despised Icon being on the top, Animosity deserve to be up there. An underrated band I'd suggest Reanima from Austria and for current bands I'm giving mad reps to Signs of the Swarm and Klak.
Anywhere we can view the "Metal Family Tree" so far?
I want a proper death metal one. We had Melodic Death, now Deathcore. What about Death Metal?
Frankly in my opinion I think the term Deathcore should just be called New Age Death Metal I cannot stand the word core on the end
Kenny Alderfer ... The 'core' at the end belongs there. Deathcore is quite literally a mix of Death metal and Hardcore. Thus Deathcore is born. New Age Death Metal would be a whole different thing. The sub-generes do get to be overwhelming tho. Too many
Fuck you, no.
@@kennyalderfer2939 the core is from the hardcore, or grind influences. And deathcore is very different from modern deathmetal
I'm actually OK now with not being able to label a band's genre. I just listen to what I like and so far there are at least 1-2 bands in my core playlist on most episodes of Lockhorns. Listening to everything instead of pigeon holing yourself into one genre or sub genre is much more satisfying. Just my opinion.
I came back to this over a year after the original stream to say the fact that Veil of Maya was discussed more than Oceano is unacceptable.
not a big deathcore fan... but despised icon and carnifex are actuality good imo.
Hell ya. And that's what's up, recognizing greatness in a genre even if you aren't a huge fan of the genre as a whole.
Despised Icon, All Shall Perish, Suicide Silence, Carnifex, Born of Osiris, As Blood Runs Black(metalcore maybe?), Veil of Maya, After the Burial, Whitechapel
Sam is a fuckin' awesome host.
Agreed brotha.
Cool but I think Chelsea Grin and Job for a Cowboy should have entered on the list
My thoughts
JFAC are in it. Like he said they aren't influential enough. There's a difference between big and influential.
JFAC were one of the first bands to really define deathcore with Doom in 2005. That EP was the fucking transition between the super heavy death metal/hardcore blended bands (Dying Fetus, Red Chord, etc) and the Myspace era of deathcore.
They probably would have known that if they got someone who actually likes deathcore and knows what the fuck they're talking about on the show.
Omg I misread your comment and posted before watching the video XD Happens when you're running off no sleep. Ignore me completely.
i don't get how acacia strain is not deathcore because they don't have the death metal tremolo picking and blast beats but bmth is?
That edgy T-shirt comment is absolutely true.
I agree with Bradley about bring me the horizon, count your blessing is so deathcore
5:09 starts for the impatient folk
no impending doom? not my thing, but surprised they weren't mentioned...
There used to be a band that were actually called Deathcore. They were a goth-reggae band. Joking, they played grind.
Through the Eyes of the Dead.
A break down is just slowing down the main riff. It "breaks down" the riff and music into a slower pattern. If it's completely different I hate when people say that it's a break down.
Have you done an early/classical metal episode?
thy art is murder
Best modern deathcore band no doubt.
Agree
@@AggressiveTendencies hell no
@@whatcolorisdeath1266 That was two years ago. No longer true.
@@AggressiveTendencies They are good but they were never the best
Arsonists Get all The Girls and Dr. Acula need to be up there they were two of the first bands to play deathcore, and have had a huge impact on the California scene. They brought in synth playing, movie samples and odd timing with the rif's plus much more of the grindcore element.
hey dude where can I get in on these live chats
I wonder if Bradley knows his last name (Zorgdrager) actually is the dutch translation for 'caretaker', cool name!
Emmure used to play with Deathcore bands back in the day. I think of them as deathcore.
NO
Them playing with deathcore bands doesn’t necessarily make them deathcore
Fuck yes, I was waiting for someone to say the red chord!
ALl shall perish should be placed next to The Red Chord
Let's be honest here. Suffocation even claims to have a lot of influence rooted in the East Coast hardcore, last I checked. Could be a misquote, but I do recall them mentioning at some point. Assuming my lines aren't completely crossed here, I'm sure we can at least agree that there's some groovy, sludgy slow spots that definitely do RESEMBLE break downs. I love them, in my brain, they'll always be a tech-death band (Just death...let's stop splitting hairs a little here...) but they certainly, and admittedly, I've never really thought of it this way, could very well be the spawning pool where these younger guys started coming from. Also, just to address the genre being less technical, give your head a shake. As a musician, I can tell you there are musicians in this genre that will make your fucking head spin. Just because you can't get past Jeff Hanneman and Dave Mustaine type licks on your own fret board doesn't mean you should take a swing at somebody that started pushing far beyond those skill ceilings. Just saying. Don't get me wrong Hanneman and Mustaine will always be some of the best, most memorable sounding guitar players in the metal tree. BUT, that doesn't mean there aren't guys out there that would probably make even the Old Gods' jaws drop.
I got big into this genre, as in my eyes, it was refreshing. The New Wave of American Metal, to me, was interesting, albeit not as gnarly as I would like some of my walking/driving music to be. So some of these new guys were perfect. Really bringing the pain with the guitars and drums, and some vocals that'll make your sperm/ovaries quiver. ANWAY, it's VERY true that there is a pretty easy code to crack when it comes to writing "Deathcore" songs....doesn't mean it's impossible to write/listen to some pretty incredible, crushing tunes.
Also, side note, the fact that the East Coast Hardcore scene influenced Suffocation, could very well be where the term "Death Core" comes from. A lot of people scoff when they hear the "core" word in any description. I'm assuming this is because they immediately think "Metal Core," and don't get me wrong, there's some cool shit in there too, but let's face it, the Sing/Scream, I'm gonna talk about my fucking ex girlfriend a bunch, really just resulting in a heavier/faster emo song, welll............Yeah, there's a lot of garbage. Point being, the suffix "CORE" comes from the "Hard CORE" genre. Doesn't mean it sucks. Because East Coast Hard Core would probably surprise a lot of metal heads as being pretty kickass, "for punk music." Give some of these bands a shot. You might be surprised. I didn't think I would end up liking it this far down the line, assuming my cynical past self projected it being a shorter fad than it turned out to be.
CHEERS FROM VICTORIA YOU WEIRDOS!
I like to think deathcore chugging is essentially the beat drop in dubstep. Not that I care about dubstep, but both chugging and beat drops are played in a similar ryhthmatic structure.
I feel like TAS should've been up there, although like wormwood was all chug, continents and dead walk were pretty much had the death metal riffage, breakdowns, hardcore influence and so on, while and life is very long and 3170 were sort've melodic Metalcore/death Metal brought together with death metal and hardcore, then like death is the only mortal sort've brought a really heavy thick doomy aspect to deathcore, being a huge influence on the downtempo deathcore movement, and then the coma witch in a sense was more hardcore influenced while also having the occasional death metal riffs, the heavy breakdowns still and then occasional moments where it went to the doomy downtempo sound(like in the observer which was very long, slow paced atmospheric downtempo track essentially)
I know this is old but I'm surprised cerebral bore or Chelsea grin weren't mentioned in there.
I was never really I big deathcore fan back in the days but i must say deathcore has some grate bands!!!!!!
That's really cool to hear! Glad you found some good stuff.
needs more hardcore influence in this discussion/list. 90s screamo was a major influence on early myspace deathcore. so was beatdown hardcore. another deathcore band that was ahead of their time in "hype" was Elysia. Very influential on early deathcore of the internet era.
Yes, essentially it is a nicer word for nu-metal. To me, deathcore is to nu-metal as death metal is to heavy metal. Kids who grew up on Korn came across maybe a few Corpse, Carcass or Suffo albums, but kept the yo-boy vibes intact, as they integrated their death metal influences.
carnifex 💀💀💀
IKR rip
OF COURSE they should shame... or this beard guy... jeeszsu christ.. how can you miss carnifex...
Thank Cannibal Corpse,seeing them everytime They're in town Ive seen all these bands on Corpses tours Unfortunately
why isn't through the eyes of the dead on here??!!!
Late af but deathcore is sick! Please do a new video of this there are a lot of monsters on this scene now
Better late than never. Thanks for watching, Mike!
Surprised Veil of Maya didn't make it. Common Man's Collapse is my all time deathcore release
What about Winds of Plague and Dying Fetus, along with Suffocation totally influenced deathcore
Winds of plague is added to the board by the end
Where's As Blood Runs Black - ﹰAllegiance 2006. One of the f9rst and best DC albums
Oceano is one of the heaviest deathcore bands.
After the Burial, Veil of Maya and Born of Osiris ARE DJENT
Their first albums were deathcore in fact BOO is one of the original deathcore bands for sure
there needs to be a dating system for bands like Bring Me The Horizon. Have a date range where they're in that genre or even the name of a single album.
They should so death grind
Do*
Yikes. Just watched this. Can't believe that Deadwater Drowning wasn't on this list. They are the pioneers of Deathcore.
Great band, too underground I'd say
starts at 5:05
Bradley has come along way from this segment. He seems either high or just plain camera shy. Much improves. Needs Impending Doom on the tree.
I want a episode about Viking Metal
Awesome. Thank you, Sam. Hail Bangers TV.
BMTH and JFAC are two bands that WERE important but abandoned the genre. One or two significant releases at the beginning of the genre doesn’t make any of those bands overall a deathcore band. If you put any of them on shuffle, there is a small chance of actually getting a deathcore song playing.
Into the moat? Anyone?
Dude, bad ass band.
Yeah, good support band on tour as well.
Cant believe Infant Annihilator wasnt mentioned dan watsons vocals are insane in their first album
Been around since the beginning. Honestly I was just always looking for the heaviest shit I could find…went from Lamb of God (As the Palace’s Burn/Ashes of the Wake) to WhiteChapel then it was over after that.
I love Lock Horns, please keep this going!
Red Chord absolutely deserved to be top of the list
I feel like you guys could have touched on Progressive Deathcore bands like Born Of Osiris, Rings Of Saturn, and this newer band called Abiogenesis which they released a song called Visualize
Some could argue that Aversions Crown is ALSO aliencore
born of osiris is nothing different then all the "progressive" and "djenty" stuff kids with a axfx, ezdrums, and a 8 string make. the shits developing a more and more edgy sound to keep people interested but its not quite deathcore.
@Joy 👽👽👽👽👽