Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Gray rocking VS stonewalling
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 янв 2024
- ORDER MY NYT BESTSELLING BOOK 📖 "IT'S NOT YOU"
smarturl.it/no...
JOIN MY HEALING PROGRAM
doctor-ramani....
JOIN THE DR. RAMANI NETWORK
www.drramanine...
GET INFO ABOUT MY UPCOMING PROGRAM FOR THERAPISTS
forms.gle/1RRU...
SIGN UP FOR MY MAILING LIST
forms.gle/Bv9G...
LISTEN TO MY NEW PODCAST "NAVIGATING NARCISSISM"
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple...
Spotify: open.spotify.c...
Stitcher: www.stitcher.c...
iHeart Radio: www.iheart.com...
DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
The "yellow rock" tidbit is (I think) what I need to do with my narcissist husband. No I can't afford to leave him without becoming homeless, I see him as an annoying roommate now. Thanks for that new tidbit.
I've just started grey rocking my husband, it helps so much with my anxiety.
I left knowing I would be homeless, with 2 kids, the day he got violent. We ended up in a borrowed camper in a driveway(worried about being ticketed by the city) etc.
But even that 3 months was less stressful than living with him!
@@loner1295well done for leaving! I was the same. I'd rather live in a hostel with my kids than suffer another day with him. And even when it's been hard, it's still been better than being with him! My health has improved, the kids behaviour has improved and we're so much happier, even though we're really poor now and he is loaded
😢😢😢😢😢
Lets free ourselves completely from them in our minds. Lets end our confusion and live narc free.
What are the abilities and knowlegde we must use to reach the goal you talked about ?
Definitely the best solution. You know the narc, you kniw the techniques to deal with them. Finally, We must to free our minds to live happily...❤
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22 All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God Romans 3:23 Jesus saves John 3:15-16 ❤❤❤
Here's to expediting our journey to coming to an understanding with ourselves, so that we can understand the faults sourced in other people, so that we may see the holders of pain, before they share their pain.
I freed myself 9 months ago! Instantly went NO CONTACT and it's been Amazing! I don't think about them, I don't have any urges to contact them... I'M DONE! It's the BEST PEACE you can ever give yourself! 😊
I was shocked by the rage full reaction of the narcissistic sister in law when I grey rocked her. She stormed out of my mother’s house then came stomping back in and verbally assaulted me. Then lied to my brother about what happened, making it sound like it was my fault. Super messed up. Can’t win no matter what you do. I’ve tried yellow rock too and she still gets upset. No technique works with her. Don’t want her in my life at all at this point. Nor my brother much because he believes her lies. They are beyond toxic. Protecting my soul. Thank you Do Ramani ❤
This sounds like you’ve gotten under her skin by not playing the narc game. Hang tough…you got this.
I think it drives NPD crazy when they can't get a reaction like they want. So then they become the reaction they were looking for . It's always a drama . Whew
Pepper your yellow rocking with compliments and insults toward yourself
"I know you're super busy so I'll get the kids, no problem".
"I'm just so bad at emotional regulation I don't want to punish you with my presence, when I inevitably shut down"
Etc.
Make sure you mentally add the truth in there so you don't believe the lies too much
"I know you're super busy (being an A$$Hole)"
"I (and the rest of the world) am just so bad at emotional regulation (when I'm around toxic people like you)."
It also helps to flip them off when it's safe to do so unseen. Sometimes a pocket, sometimes in the bathroom.
What is yellow rock? I need it in case grey rock does not work.
@@warrenbradford2597 she explains in the video. It's just grey rocking with extra politeness.
I felt like stonewalling was used as a form of punishment towards me whenever I did not do/say/behave/go along with the narcissist. I found this exasperating, but also amusing because the silent treatments were like a vacation...I learned that if I pissed her off, she'd leave me alone, sometimes for months.
One thought I just had is that the "stonewalling" accusation can easily be thrown out at somebody who is setting a conversational boundary. For example, Person A. regularly brings up a topic that they use to antagonize Person B. After numerous instances of the conversation, during which Person A. keeps doing circular arguments so the issue is never resolved, Person B. says "I'm no longer going to have that conversation because it's unresolvable. If you bring up that topic, I will leave the room." Person A. later brings up the topic. Person B. leaves the room. Person A. then declares that Person B. is stonewalling.
Totally happened to me just last week.. 🤦
Oh my goodness my husband constantly does this!!! Or he’ll try to redirect the conversation with “and you never clean!” Or something else that can’t be proven or unproven and then I say you’re redirecting, we’re not talking about that we’re talking about x. Then he’ll keep trying and I’ll say you are being very manipulative right now and then he’ll say “how?” And then I’ll say “I literally just gave you an example”, I shouldn’t have to explain what manipulation is”. At this point we’re nowhere on topic and I say we’re not talking about this right now, where talking about x. Then he’ll say “see, won’t even communicate unless it what YOU want to talk about. You’re so selfish and never think about anyone else!” So we’re still not on topic. Then I’ll say, “okay well this is going nowhere because you keep redirecting and blaming me for whatever you can think of that’s not on topic and name calling so I’m going to end the conversation”. Then he’ll again say that I “won’t talk unless it’s about me” and then I walk out of the room and he’ll walk somewhere else and as he’s walking away he ALWAYS mumbles last words under his breath, usually something along the lines of “selfish b****, st*pid c***, you’re a f****** joke. He usually then heads downstairs to where his parents are at in their house that he “doesn’t have enough money to move out of” even though he has a good job (I finally just got a better job and he didn’t give me a lot of money so I don’t know where it goes) and loudly talk about me so I can hear and then hear his parents laughing or joking with him about it. Then his mom gives me the cold shoulder/ cold looks for days while and then acting like she’s not and doesn’t understand while I haven’t been socializing with her recently and will ask me with contempt while “I haven’t been talking with her” to make it seem like I’ve done something to her.
This describes my interactions with my 92 year old mother. Taking care of her has mostly fallen to me. It's true that it brings up grief for me. There never was a "there" there with her, and it still hurts. I'm happy to hear about "yellow rock". I just have to remember to not bite the verbal/emotional hooks that she throws out.
"Verbal hooks" is a good way of putting it. That's exactly how it feels sometimes when they say something and you know it's meant to get a reaction. I dread calling my mom. Everytime we talk, without fail there will be some kind of put down to make me feel like I'm failing her in some way: I don't call often enough, I talk too long, there's something wrong with almost every gift I send....
My mom tried to leave the flowers I sent her for Christmas at my front door. I caught her. She thought I would have been asleep at the time. Her reasoning: she was going out of town and thought I would enjoy them. “ out of town.” is a 45 minute drive. SMH and carrying on …
I started gray rocking my 90 year old mom about two years ago after a lifetime of compliancy as her emotional chew toy. Now I perform my caregiving tasks like I'm an employee and not a daughter - courteously but without engagement. As soon as she starts on one of her victimy rants, I just say "Ok, enjoy your day" and leave. It feels like I've given her the divorce my dad should have given her when he was alive. Feels good.
When you are verbally abused by the narcissist the only way to attack the narcissist back and win is by not giving a positive or negative emotional response. That way the narcissist is denied the one thing the narcissist wants: your need for validation. Its your need for validation from the narcissist that makes the narcissist feel in control over you and superior to you. When you deny that it drives the narcissist into anger at you which means the narcissist will either double down on the insults to get your reaction or start to ghost you if the narcissist can get their narcissistic supply somewhere else. That way in the narcissist's mind you are being punished by being ghosted in hopes you'll come crawling back because you're being given the silent treatment. Then if the ghosting doesn't work the narcissist will eventually show up trying to hoover you later on pretending to be concerned about your wellbeing. Narcissist are very sick people who you need to cut out of your life to live well.
Didn't realise I was greyrocking my father on the very few occasions I was forced into his company after I ran away from home. Now I know the term for it.
When I couldn't physically avoid him, I just gave yes/no/shrug answers and looked around at other people, out tje windows, etc. When he did his crocodile tears crap for his audience and "you won't even talk to me", I just stared right at him coldly, said " I have answered your questions" and walked off.
By the time that funeral happened, I had been gone from his nonsense and his flying monkeys for c.10 years and I was so very very bored his his nonsense.
Just did this to my narcissistic husband wanting money at the end of the week after I payed the bill and bought food post to take money out of my savings account to give him money for gas and I’m like I’m not doing that. I’m trying to pay myself back for the money I spent at Christmas he put in no money at all. He’s bitching me at the end of the week on a Saturday that he needs money for gas but yet he’s been driving back-and-forth to the lions, football games and burning up his gas. That’s not my responsibility to give him gas to go to the football game. He has money, he’s saving to fix his car. I guess he just spent some of it going to the football game !!!
You are so much sunshine, Dr. Ramani 🥰 A wealth of insight, much appreciated!
I only recently learned about gray rocking and that I've been doing it for many years with my mother (who I've recently gone no contact with). It made me sad and frustrated that I felt forced to behave this way around her, but it was the only way to avoid conflict. It wasn't until I realized that my kids were really taking this behavior in, and wondering why their mother was allowing someone to mistreat her, that I started to speak up. Of course, it led to the no contact situation, and honestly, I wish I'd done it years ago. Her mistreatment of me was something that I was used to my entire life. I wasn't going to allow her to manipulate and abuse my children.
Ive gotten to the point where whenever im communicating with antagonistic people I either record the convo or communicate via text/email.
with the latter I have everything in writing while the former I have the recording just in case something comes up. None of it going to be shared because its not going to matter to the other party.
be careful with recording. absent consent of all parties, they are not only not admissible into evidence, but a crime to obtain and allow the “injured party” to su
*This is EXACTLY what I needed🙏🏻 I find its easier to keep communication super short to avoid them getting under my skin/getting a reaction or turning into an argument.*
No i'm deagree with you. What you talk about may maintain conflictual situations and don't allow to get peace. The thing to do is to understand the needs and feelings we pushed you to be together and then seek for the abilities, ressources and knowlegdes useful to fulfil the needs and feel good.
Did you outline what could be called need for you ?🤔
On social medias I admit four needs there are : *the need to feed, the need of water, the need of peace, the need to rest.*
I can answer some of your questions if you wish.
yes! I think my husband is struggling with narc tendencies, I didn't realize it until I was post partum.
Grey rocking is accepting the fact he/she can never be changed. Its ACCEPTANCE
Lots to see here . Grey rock definitely shows you how insincere the relationship has always been ..( I mean why else would you have to resort to this ? ) Plus , i noticed very fast how grey rock starts to cause more & more extreme efforts from NPD to get a reaction. Its really crazy . The whole thing is a weird game . And thats a cause for grief . Time to put it to rest .
Bless you, Dr. Ramani……this ‘answering cleanly’ via gray/yellow-rocking has really helped me navigate the lifelong painful relationship with my mother, whose narc nature has only deepened with time. Old age and it’s corollary of serious illness have proven to be the ultimate challenge.
Understanding and invoking yellow-rock communication enables me to feel self-respecting-and-protecting while still being present and loyal to the physical suffering of this woman who gave me life. Even loyalty-at-any-price must have its limits. God bless you always.
Using a healthy boundary to protect yourself from toxicity is not the same as withholding information or feelings as a tool to hurt another.
May God bless and multiply all the good you do with your studies and your videos about this topic Dr. Ramani ❤
I’m in a difficult work situation at the moment. This is helpful reminder to stop trying to explain myself to a boss who continues trying to dominate in every interaction with me. Grey rocking will help me tread water while I look for another job.
Your videos have been so helpful for me in navigating this situation. Thank you 🙏🏼
Thanks for clarifying the difference between the two, DrRamani. Especially helpful to learn that gray rocking can be effective in writing! ✍🏼💕
Yes! Getting good at gray rock of the written word. Works well, and I feel honest too. I have also stopped most interactions, which is healthy for me, but I am sure my sibling thinks I am stonewalling. I see the narcissist baiting coming in lots of different ways now, my eyes are wide open now and I am walking down a different street! And my much more healthy path is thanks to you!!!
Blessings, Dr. Ramani thank you.
This is great. I actually started Gray rocking a few people at work. And the one guy's response was he shook his head and said no no, as if he wanted to hear me become upset and argue. As I just walked away. It felt great
Excellent... I have had many (most) members of my family on extinction for decades and it will continue! I gave up on reciprocal interactions in the mid 80's. That doesn't stop the attempts at harvesting information and attention seeking!
Thank you for explaining this. My daughter and SIL use stonewalling.
I didn't realize I was using gray rocking until you described these.
I have experienced bullying and have my character assaulted. I had fotten to the point I was worried she may lay hands on me.
Only when I was needed was I called on. I text my responses.
I had been babysitting mid day for 1.5 hrs to watch the grandkids and get one of them off the bus. I took over in late summer and she was going to keep me through October. This went on well into December. I had put off doctors appts as long as,I could and wasn't going to cancel a third time.
I was dismissed! One day, prior to my end date, right before my appts they cancelled me. We haven't seen our grandchildren since.
🙏🏾😟
@@byhisgracecombs8852 I saw them yesterday during the Lions game, as the family was together. ❤️🔥
Stonewalling is refusing to supply information. Grey rocking is keeping personal emotion out of the conversation - it doesn't involve hiding information.
I don't see how anyone could get the two confused - unless the person being confused is deliberately misrepresenting it
2:34 😮😮😮 stone walling part has me like... I prefer that one because am Soooo irritated by the narcissist shame. I hate her presence i don't even want to talk to her.
Narcs are crazy people they will argue you even without facts and tell you something that is best known by you as if they are living your life .
I've kept every email I've ever sent or received since 1996 and every text message I've ever sent or received since (IIRC) 2010. I insist on email or text for every communication I have with the problematic people in my life. (Paper would do, too, but this is 2024 after all.) I gray rock them all and never initiate communication.
*I even do that for secondhand communication.* Recently, my (non-problematic) brother said my N mother wanted to know if I wanted her couch. (She's moving to a smaller assisted living space.) All I replied to him about that was "Thanks, but no." (The "thanks" was for him, not her.) Whatever he relays to her, she will try to twist it into something bad, so I didn't give her much to work with. (She probably interpreted the "thanks" as a softening of my cutting her out of my life >7 years ago.)
So I find this Gray Rocking to be so challenging. And I think that's, in part, because of my ADHD.
It's hard for me to respond yes, no, sure, or even maybe, with no further explanation.
I've recently been learning a lot more about ADHD from other people who have ADHD and who have been properly diagnosed and treated for it. Ones who have real coping skills and tools for dealing with it, and who have proper names for symptoms I didn't even know were widespread in people with ADHD.
Apparently, it's not just me, people with ADHD have a deep desire to be properly understood. So where somebody might answer a given question with "no," I struggle not to give a, "no because -" And I am very aware that that further explanation comes off as an excuse. But in my mind I am not excusing my valid 'no' response, I am explaining why that is the response.
And I find it particularly challenging in writing.
Clearly.
In conversation I think I probably do pretty well with the Yellow Rocking, though that is a new term for me, I'd have to look into that. Whatever you call it, I am able to answer in conversation in a very concise way when that is warranted. And if I do need to further explain my answer I can do that without making excuses.
When I answer my mother with a, "no." And her immediate response is, "Well you don't have to be upset about it." I can simply, and politely, say, "I'm not upset." And be done.
Somehow, in text, that goes on for paragraphs or possibly chapters over a 40-minute exchange. And I think that is out of this desire to be very clearly understood.
It's a trap!
I'm working on it.
Just add a emojis to dictate the emotions. No, sorry.
If you have a hard time with nicities just mentally add the truth.
"No, sorry. (Sorry to be dealing with you at all)."
It really helps.
I think that in addition to wanting to be understood - which is perfectly normal - you may find that years of gaslighting and guilt tripping has left you with feelings of low self esteem. Confident people do not feel the need to explain themselves and, through that, attract people who are interested to know them. It's tough!
@@triciastewart5529
I agree that the gaslighting will leave one feeling misunderstood and insecure.
But I don't think that the ADHD is necessarily a trauma response. Certainly it can be exacerbated by that, but I think there are two separate issues there. And this need to be clearly understood does seem to be associated with the ADHD.
Also, my general conversational communication is good. And I definitely do tailor my conversations with my narcissists appropriately. This need to be understood is pervasive. I can't seem to separate it out. And while I do it with everybody, it's not dangerous in conversation with the vast majority of people. It's the ones who are looking for an in, the ones looking to trap you, where this becomes a problem.
At least, that is my experience. But you are not wrong, when somebody is already prone to gaslighting you, giving them fuel is to be avoided.
I love your videos! I have learned so much and have also been reminded of things I already know. Thank you so much!
This is how you should talk to police. Concise answers and dont respond to them baiting you
Sometimes, just leaving ppl the heck alone is the BEST course of action even if it easier said than done ✔️.
It really takes way more than knowledge and expérience to do this job, and Dr Ramini has it : its called réalisme and emprisme, and using both instead of preaching destructive and pseudovalues.
Much love and gratitude from Lebanon 🇱🇧❤🙏
Brilliant.
Thank you for your videos there helping me so much!! ❤
I thought jail would make him go away forever! I filed charges and he served 6 months… he just tried to add my mom on facebook..
I got rid of all social media a brand new phone number deleted my email accounts got new emails..
I went total no contact since February 22, 2023 and he came back…
He was diagnosed at Mount Sinai, New York as a covert malignant narcissist with sociopathic behaviors..
I told my dr IM DONE! He hits me busted my eardrum broke my shoulder so I got a DNR… I’m tired. No fight left in me😔
Awww that’s horrid. Prayers for you to help you escape🙏🏼💐💖
@@Carollori thank you 🙏 I truly need prayer
...hmmmm, gray rock enough, you end up with a stone wall
Thank you for this video. It was only a few weeks ago that I was struck by the realization that my sister (who has been in therapy for almost 9 years, with little to no success) actually shows a damn lot of narcissistic traits and it got worse after our mother passed away in late August. I'm now sitting here facing the harsh reality that my feelings for her will never be the same again and that I have to make strong adjustments to our communication if I want to stop her from hurting me again. The last time (when I dared to say no to her) I was unable to get restful sleep for six weeks straight. It's rough... 💔😔
Thank you Dr Ramani for teaching us 💐
In addition to grey rocking I've found that giving polite but empty web care like responses when false accusations from the past are being brought up again works very well. I often go something like: "I'm sorry you've experienced that situation differently. Luckily that's behind us so that we can work together to maintain a stable situation for our daughter". It's probably infuriation to her but it completely shuts down her attempts to escalate things. And I must admit, it’s also pretty entertaining.
Thx Dr. Ramani. You are saving my life.
Doctor Ramani, I know how destructive Narcissism is, but I want to share a light-hearted variation...
How about calling these approaches:
Dry-walling and Sheet-rocking....
After the wonderful building materials of our Interior Spaces! 😊
I get that going Grey Rock is not a long-term solution and isn't for everybody, as it does make things awkward. But it saved me. My narc soon-to-be ex-wife got bored of me and left. Don't dismiss Grey Rock!
I like the discussion about texting. Perhaps a forgotten but present aspect of all relationships.
The narcissist accusing you of stonewalling is Classic projection 😂 because the narcissist is an expert in stonewalling
Narcissists project ALL THE TIME to protect their fragile broken egos
Also, they'll try to call your running away to avoid actual physical abuse "stonewalling" anything to keep you around and taking any kind of punishment.
Running away from abuse is self defense and deescalation, which they will never tolerate
So true 📽
Grey Rock is self defense to escape someone else trying to get you under their control. Stonewalling is passive aggressive behavior used to get someone under your control.
Bless you, Dr. Ramani! I'm following your channel for 4 years now and it has literally saved my bud (do you say so in English? - it's a German idiom!) May I request another video? Currently, I'm going though the terrible dying process of my father. My narcissistic step mother is always around and the relationship with her is worse than ever. She is legally in charge of decision making for my father. She doesn't inform (except for drastic changes), doesn't ask for opinions or feelings or concerns, when we have different opinions about care or medical treatment she immediately jumps to the legal side of it and shuts me down. When I utter the wish to want to talk to someone except for her to receive imformation she considers it "acting behind her back" and that it will ruin her relationships. She is getting rageful and one time even told me to leave the house. Simultanously, she has started to criticise me again heavily concerning everything from how I do the household when I help her to not visiting often enough to not inviting my parents over to my new house (I live far away - they wouldn't/couldn't come anyway) to why I started my own business at the age of 50 and on and on and on and on. Everything that comes out of her mouth is devaluating. It's triggering like nothing else before. I lost my mother at the age of 8. And I now see the dying process of my father to turn into the next severe trauma. I really don't know what to do. I need her to keep up the connection to my father, i.e. via phone as he cannot take calls anymore. As you say the Grey Rock/Yellow Rock- Method is rather for writing. Could you please, please make another video to describe what to do in in-person-interaction like this when we cannot escape. Thank you so much. It's highly appreciated! ❤❤❤
Your videos are like a ritual, whenever I have to deal with narcissists. It's so assuring in solidarity for all of us who have no control over narcissists coming into our lives in various situations n places. More love to you dea Dr. Ramani❤ n more strength to all the empathetic sweet hearts out there... Keep going... Ramani is the saviour 🎉
What you do may maintain conflicts !
Yeah when we first met she told me she had a rebound relationship with a guy after leaving her husband. She said it had come crashing down, so i assumed it was over. But when we started dating she confessed to me that she was actually still seeing in while she was getting to know me and ended it about 3 weeks into us talking. Then she told me he was actually her kids soccer coach. At first I tried dealing with it, but after a month the guy started causing drama. And that’s when i began to tell her I’m uncomfortable with situation. After so many times of me expressing my discomfort. She said she would switch her kid to a different club. But later made excuses and that’s when she said get over it. Also she hasn’t told her family or catholic friends about me. Her ex husband doesn’t know about me either. So he still sometimes sends messages thinking there is hope for him with her. So pretty much she hides out relationship. All these things I’ve expressed to her. But her excuse is always about kids not finding out yet because they aren’t ready yet. She would shut down whenever I addressed anything and I would back track and just kept going along with what she wanted. No matter how I told her to put herself in my shoes . Nothing ever changed. It made me feel like I was crazy trying to diagnose myself.
i am stone walling my narcissistically abusive family members who I am staying with. I am finding it very hard to engage with them in any way because I have always lived in continuous toxic projection leading to complex trauma.
So, tomahawk rocking is probably out of the question? (Thanks for giving names to the things I've intermittently practiced with the jerks I have to endure).
Maybe Mills Brothers should have done a slightly different version of their "Rocking Chair" classic: "Gray rocking chair's got me".
❤ thanks for all your precious videos - they are so helpful to me. 🌳Just have ordered your new book and looking so much forward to reading it.❤💞👏🙏 lots of warmth and love from Switzerland 🍀💚
Great advice!
I want to say congratulations!!! It was great to see you on the Tamron show!!!❤ God bless you
I keep rewatching the video, even at a normal speed, and I still do get all the differences the grey rocking and stonewalling. The best I can describe is that greying is a technique that utilize peaceful methods to protect yourself from narcissistic rage while stonewalling is being psychologically abusive by being silently unresponsive to people who are talking to said abuser.
Narcs seeing a wall where there is a rock seems like a really interesting point
Thank you, Dr. Ramani ❤
I’m gray-rocking my SIL and her husband. I am cordial, polite, but give very short, very generic answers. The other week she wanted supply and I refused, non-verbally.
Gray-rocking and really being aware that you are stopping to give them supply and validation helps. It’s makes you uninteresting to them.
OMgosh!! I didn’t know there were names for what I’m doing to avoid being manipulated in text by ex!!! Yay!! Thank you ❤️
Thank you, without knowing about this term, I chose to do this with my ex, to keep and maintain healthy boundaries.. So for now I will only text or email her and not talk to her oh the phone. My life is so much better with these boundaries. I am glad to know this is a healthy way to manage people like this.
Grey rocking, doesn't seem to work too well in a work situation. Sometimes fighting back is necessary, once you're a target, they won't relent no matter what you do. I refused to kiss up to people I didn't want to, and I still refuse. Even if you manage to avoid them it doesn't stop the crap talk behind your back. You have to truly not care what is being said, or the idiots who will believe a one sided story, and you have to work very hard, especially if whoever is messing with you has a higher position.
Looks like I have done the right thing without realizing it. Once it is written on a piece of paper it cannot be change and taken out of contex. It also is a record for future which is most likely will happen. 42 years of experience in that. She tries to come up with phony explanations but I have the records to prove other wise. That was a good move on my part. It is helping me now and I feel good about it. Thanks for reminding me of this.
Throwing gray rocks instead will work better, it's called positive punishment. 😅😂🤣
Ha!
Thanks & good job. You forgot one: toxic relationships with politicians (narcissists). Don't settle. We got this. Let's go!
Great video and advice. I call it "score carding". Doesn't have to be about kids, as in the example. Conversations like this turn into poins and devolve into word salad. The next thing you know DARVO is in full effect and you are on the defensive and fall back into thinking that if you just explain reality they will get the message...the NEVER do. Cut the off if you have to attachments, it's not worth the aggravation.
Grey rock is "ok" regarding leaving the house in 5 mins. Stonewalling is not being available to the point of causing difficulty.
I have found gentle parenting techniques to be surprisingly effective. They don't always work, but I'd say they do a whole bunch of the time.
It makes sense wheb you think of narcissists as emotionally stunted children
Grey rock is one of the best methods that you taught me Dr. Ramani. It was so effective with narcissists, they were fuming lol, gray rocking makes narcs go crazy.
My mom loves to stonewall when I gray rock. She does it to my dad too, no one will have done anything to hurt her. She tries to cross our boundaries, we don’t allow it or I’ll call out her lie so she turns to stonewalling. Even if we’re trying to talk to her about something serious, she will literally pretend you don’t exist. It doesn’t hurt me anymore but I can’t help to feel angry at how ridiculous it is. I have BPD and worked on my mental health for years, reversing the damage she’s done. It’s really pathetic and I don’t know how much longer I can deal with her behavior. It almost disgusts me.
It's definitely easy to tell if they are stone walling. Cuz I'll say hi. And they still ignore me yet they don't talk about what's going on so the issue can be solved that's how I know. There's more signs of their narcissistic behavior. I don't mind the stonewalling cuz it was friendship but now thats gone. Just a roommate situation. I'll just ignore them.
It's funny how the worse flatmates/room-mates think stonewalling/ignoring you when they run into you again is the worse thing they can do to you when it's exactly what you were hoping for.
What do you do when grey rock yellow rock or any form of healthy disengagement doesn’t work and you still get attacked and blamed wrongly, yet they’re ‘family’ so hard to avoid and you get pressured by other family to see them despite their abusive toxic behaviour?
Like my landlord.... Definitely "gray rocking" with them.... Then rolling my eyes behind their back cause they're loco!
I guess I did it wrong. A lady I go to church with, who happens to be the preacher’s wife (I think they’re both NPD or at least one is and the other is displaying bad behavior due to the abuse) told me I am the most intense person she’s known in her 22 years of ministry and that she hates intense (she literally said this because I was reading scripture that didn’t support her views on pride). So, I made the conscious decision to stop communications with her because I translated that as a boundary she needed established (and I needed it, too, because beyond this she was the direct cause of several crazy making experiences spanning the last 90 days). A few weeks ago, she kept asking me things and I wouldn’t respond very much and she asked if I was ignoring her. I asked if she knew what grey rock method was and walked away.
They came back from vacation, and I had determined to just not engage or seek out contact with her at all. She tried to start conversations with me twice and I did just ignore her. I don’t want to be hoovered and manipulated into saying something she could twist into making me look like a bad person as she essentially accuses me of. Pretty sure this set off narcissistic injury and she exploded in front of multiple people during our congregation’s potluck because I came to their table asking to remove plates that people were done with (I was going to all of the tables, not singling them out). The preacher has accused me of not serving people more (because I don’t make a big deal of the acts of service I do quietly as that isn’t the point in serving others…) so I wanted to be sure they did see it this time around. The preacher happened to be the one with the plates stacked in front of him, so I did have to ask him directly for the plates. He was willing to let me serve but she freaked out, yelled at me to leave and to not act surprised, and go away.
But yet I am the one that isn’t gentle, I am the most intense, and don’t having self control?? That’s projection, right?
Also, I see her trying to do small talk as her breaking a boundary with me, because I mentioned how draining small talk is on me and I can’t do it very long. She the proceeded to start doing small talk with me 🤯 this is partially why I just didn’t try to engage, period. 😔
Some people are giving the silent treatment...I don't even know why. But it's like also if they walk near me because they can't take another route, they say a so called polite good morning. So they treat me as if I'm the narc and that's what I call is dangerous it's a misunderstanding about another human being and they don't even know me it like they are murdering another person, I think that person need to be mentally and emotionally strong.
I would love to see a series of Gottman’s 4 Horsemen and if they apply or can be used to make an unavoidable narcissistic partnership more palpable or improve? What kinds of tactics of the narcissist sabotage the victim’s attempt to avoid the 4 horsemen. Stonewalling in a marriage can be used by victims to protect themselves in that they are going into a shell especially when the narcissist seems cold, quietly angry, aloof and passive aggressive. These things are so confusing and muddled when a person is in the trenches of them.
i am glad that you took this topic. i was expecting this video since i first watched "the gray stone" video. This might be confusing for me since for me i feel "gray stone" and "stonewalling" are the same behavior. The difference is only ethical if i may say so. When exactly it is employed ? And in what situation?! And the confusion and unclarity may arise form the doubts that our perception of reality is accurate. And i may say that this confusion will only be solved by going into therapy,couple therapy preferably.
What i feel that both behavior are rather extreme behavior of actually lack of communication. And should ONLY be employed with abusive people. But one can also abuse of these tactics. And here my ethical question arise. In the end is about who is who.
Grey Rock is self defense to escape someone else trying to get you under their control. Stonewalling is passive aggressive behavior used to get someone under your control. Narcissist are on a quest to get people under their control and stonewalling is a way to try and make someone else submit to their control. Those of us who are trying to avoid being controlled are just not giving a positive or negative reaction so the narcissist knows we don't need their validation. That way we deny the narcissist's any control in our life.
I end up sending tons of enraged texts to a family member because in person they just shout and I find that difficult to deal with. I end up writing all of my thoughts I was trying to say in long messages, because it is the only way I feel they will hear what I have to say. I then wonder if I am the narc.
same ;/
Wu wei is the way... And who's the best of the best at grey rocking???
This is what I did right before and after my divorce. I didn't know what it was called. It was before text. I would do this to people in the community when they would say he said this and that. I would say is that what he said. And walk away. They just wanted gossip. I even told one friend if you believe what he said you are not my friend. If you are my friend you won't believe him. We became closer friends.
8:24 keeping texts brief 😂 noted i like this one. Yes the narcs was even pissed and jealousy that i was sharing my business with someone else and ignoring . Haaa😂 i will continue to do this because narcs don't deserve my attention . Narcs don't have confidentiality so rather not share.
I used grey rock and yellow but in my case my narcs made up what they wanted anyway. No contact is ideal but not always possible.
Dr.Ramani, would you not change the sound of the intro of your video's!, it sounds relaxing for me, relaxing is I think not the right word but it's soft because My thoughts and like worries in the head like ruminating etc ....can be much and that sound of your video's is a positive sound.
I prefer yellow rocking
All I know is when I was my covert dad’s caregiver for 3+ years, gray rocking saved me.
i want to see the spirit weapon version tell me Ramani i want to see how much you know about us we not many but we embrace every word 🥰
Oh my mom tried to not talk to me the whole day…. Because supposedly my tone of voice when I said i have to take care of baby for bedtime… my husband can take care of the older one lol . After she ordered me around
I was like whatever I have to take care of our little ones first. It didn’t bother me🫠. She didn’t even kiss baby. Always my tone of voice , how I respond or the way I look at her… have a frown all the time but she always triggers me by shouting my name 🤷🏻♀️ so sometimes I just throw it back at her
I'm noticing more narcissistic people who usually gaslight on a regular basis use these tactics grey rock tactic especially when you call them out on their behaviors its gets kinda condescending to see them grey rock or stonewall especially when they're the very ones who are the ones who engage in gaslighting mind games. All of this is very twisted and sad in so many ways especially when you're coming from a place of authenticity. I noticed since I called out alot of gangstalking that's been happening around me that people are now more in the grey with their engagements because they can't project that negative energy so they avoid me or just get become dry in interactions unless its something based around that behavior
Grey Rock is self defense to escape someone else trying to get you under their control. Stonewalling is passive aggressive behavior used to get someone under your control. A narcissist melts down when grey rocked. A narcissist doesn't melt down when you stonewall because you're still giving the narcissist a positive or negative emotional reaction which shows the narcissist you need their validation causing the narcissist to feel in control of you and superior.
Thanks, that's helpful.
but when you get accused of not doing something on a regular basis, and it due to the fact im picking up the slack of evrything else thats not done or my free time being with the kids. its gets to me after a few yrs as its not true and i keep feeling i need to defend myself for my actions/lack of action.
Respond and be firm.Keep it simple.Yellow rock is an interesting subject. A little sprinkle works.😊
Excellent!! have you covered dangerous LGAT and Corporate Training Groups such as Landmark Forum, Wellspring, and/or Tony Robbins? How some corporate structures make you take these trainings in order to get promoted but underneath the programs are cult-Narc abuse. I'd be interested in your take on this.
Thanks!
Surely this is a conscientious strategy to continue abuse by a narc. Now imagine that this accusation is from someone who is a casual acquaintance… as someone who is visibly recognizable as a part of a marginalized group (I’m trans and you can just tell) this situation has happened to me many times. I have seen so many situations turn toxic, only to be blamed for even being there. Honestly, bigotry and narcissism seem to function in a very similar way.
Just a thought that maybe a few extra words might make the response seem less gray rock-ish. “Yes, I will pick up the kids”
stonewalling is confirmation that shots were hit 🤣
lean, clean and mean 🐊
This is the space where my husband is with his mom.
I ordered the new book. Did I miss the free workshop that I was supposed to get?
The narcissist I briefly dated has been showing up around town lately. I never make eye contact and erase him from view. He's deleted from existing in my world.
He tries to get my attention but I ignore. Nothing to say to him, and I don't owe him anything, least of all my time/attention.
"Teaching someone to communicate with someone who is not listening"
BFA Communications Degree
Insanity is