I was RAF, I saw a colleague of mine in a scrap with an Army JNCO whilst on joint exercise. Nothing to do with heritage/colour but entirely to do with inter-service rivalry and alcohol, even the army lads dragged the Sgt off as he was found to be drunk on the ranges. Again, nothing to do with colour, everything to do with an alcoholic individual who had no place in the Armed Forces. That said, I don’t dispute that this particular army CPL may have been a racist as well as a drunk, clearly not representative of the rest of the armed forces. There’s no place for racism, no place for attempting to murder an officer regardless of any disagreement between them. I hope this chap recovers and I hope he realises too that there are plenty of serviceman who would have jumped in to kick the shit out of the Cpl if we saw it happening.
in that interview, I see no evidence of the defendant being racist. Not to say he wasn't, but the clear underlying catalyst for this was the effect of alcohol - a legal drug, after all and very ironic when considering the view of the Armed Forces to the possession of an illegal substance, let alone the use of.
Very sorry to hear of your experience Harry. Thank you for your service. Rubbish that there was no way that could be found for you to continue to serve....but I 100% understand why you did not believe that you could continue.
I think it's sad he gave up his career. I feel he became a victim of the flip side of racism. Which is everything is viewed through the lens of racism.
It would be interesting to know the composition of the CM Board, which of course is also effectively the jury and not just the trier of the law. Subjectivity can very easily creep in to an unstreamed situation like that. Thrice in the early 1980s mixed-race I passed RAF and RN Aircrew Aptitude Tests, but never progressed any further through the Interview Boards. White non-graduate A-Level candidates with RAF and RN parents did however; one even switched from Navigator to Pilot at the RAF's expense and has several You Tube videos. And I have only ever seen one British RAF pilot of colour, who ended up as a Station Commander. I love the country of my birth but I know when it's racist - racist enough to have made it worthwhile my emigrating and not volunteering any longer to defend it. My nephew is still in the British Army but I could not in all good conscience say that I am pleased by that. Racism still stalks British military career opportunities. We might be of colour, but we are far from being stupid. The best country by far for non-white military aviation prospects is the United States. Britain cannot even hold a candle to America in that regard.
@NOWHERE PEOPLE America has its problems, but there are far more opportunities for non-whites in its military than they were (are?) in the United Kingdom.
Having experienced the Armed Forces through the 80s and into the 90s (I was also a member of OASC's staff, Biggin Hill), I met many fellow servicemen of colour, both male and female and can honestly say, never saw race as being a factor. That said, it is fair to say the likes of the Met Police have been found to be institutionally racist, so it must surely be something which is likely to have infiltrated many such organisations. I also feel (especially, by the RAF) the MOD is now trying too hard to be inclusive (although I would rather see that described as exclusive). So much so that sentiments such as "White Males are not wanted" are now commonplace - something which is intrinsically, both racist and discriminatory. Surely, what is needed is a willingness to accept those best suited for the job with appointment and promotion being founded on the content of the candidate's character (and ability) and an underlying meritocracy. Any form of discrimination must be to the detriment and well being of any organisation.
@@andrewmallard2301 "[S]ervicemen of colour" Or aircrew of colour? I agree that only the very best should be selected for aircrew, but too often that has historically meant only (white) friends and RAF family. As I wrote above, I have only ever seen one non-white RAF officer wearing a pilot brevet. He ended up as a Station Commander. Though saddening, it comes as no surprise to me that many (but not all by any means) British-born non-whites have little to no interest in applying to the UK military. Though the uniformed services are clearly improving, the clear message has been sent to generations of them that 'we really neither trust nor want you to serve in our military and first response services.' That path only serves to make more enemies than friends and allies.
Get yourself back in Harry 🙏 Don't let one bad experience take away your success, joy and great reputation in life 🙏 Like you say, there are some fantastic people in the RAF. Your ability to defend yourself and survive shows a lot about your character. My very best wishes Harry.
Good of the BBC to show a bit of professional due diligence and journalistic integrity by looking at both sides of this incident… I implore anyone that is unfortunate enough to watch this piece of ‘journalism’ to do some research into this case and learn about all the things that the BBC chooses to ignore and which Harry presumably forgets to mention. I suspect that you will find zero evidence of his skin colour being a factor. Indeed, I suspect that you’ll find zero evidence of attempted murder which is why his claim was thrown out at Court-Martial. Make up your own mind and don’t be swayed by subjective, deliberately misleading journalists that have an axe to grind. Shame on you, BBC: you used to be impartial and reliable.
Really? The RAF would let you just walk away after all that training? My son was in the air force and it's not that easy after that expenditure on and time investment on training. I wonder what really happened?
@@Heneling My son had a short term commission, you had to serve your contractual time or buy yourself out. You can't just walk away, the air force expects a return on it's investment in your training, or repayment.
Once you've done your ROSO you are free to go...return of service obligation if they educate you.. That's why specialists often get a bonus to stay. upsets the non receivers no end.
So his whole issue is that he alleged that an Army Corporal attacked him and that the Service Prosecution Authority (majority of whom are civilians) took on his case but it was then 'lost' in Court? I'm struggling to see the racism here and I definitely can't see the 'hate in the RAF' that the title refers to. 🤷🏻♂️
a member of the raf is randomly attacked him with intent to kill (presumably due to his race) with the military police not being equipped with instruments that could accurately show his bruises (due to his ethnicity) then they dismissed the case. I dont see how thats not a case of racism or at least discriminative negligence in the raf?
@@candyjp1 - well first of all it wasn't the RAF that was running the prosecution it's the SPA which is a predominantly civilian organisation and secondly there was no indication of racist behaviour during the attack. It was a drunk member of the Army attacking the Duty Officer not attempting to kill him. There's no racism here just old fashioned indiscipline.
@@candyjp1 I'm sorry why is it "presumably racism" I guess you'd be correct in saying its a presumption. Why do people always assume when someone is targeted who is non white its a hate crime.
As an Officer you do not approach drunken ORs alone , you call for assistance of the duty staff this basic knowledge was or should have been stated to you at OCTU. This was your mistake, the decisions at the trial would have been based on evidence nothing else, clearly there was an element of doubt thus a not guilty verdict .I find it very very hard to accept that a Courts Martial board was biased because of your ethnicity .I served 36yrs retiring as a very RAF senior officer. I never had to deal with any form. of racism or elements of racism in that time those ethnic minorities that served with me or under my command fitted in completely and advanced in rank in line with their contempories regardless of ethnicity.
I'm sorry but this is every day or life in the civy courts system.......actually even worse. Its sad, disgraceful but unfortunately it is what it is. 😔
So someone assaulted him, and the person collecting evidence accidentally used the wrong equipment for photographing darker skin tones. To me it sounds like the man who was assaulted is the one making up the racism claims. There’s nothing to prove that the man who assaulted him was racially motivated, or that the man who used the wrong equipment did so because he was racially motivated. I’m surprised that the BBC released this, when there is no evidence of racism at all.
Not a nice thing for Harry to experience, but surely it was for his team to do as it was supposed and that was to prosecute. Photos or evidence in general was for his counsel to ensure effective prosecution of. To my mind, the defence must have put up a better case and in the absence of anything sufficiently compelling, the case unfortunately went against Harry. I have no doubt in believing his version, but that is the nature of the law and until Proven, guilty, the accused is innocent. Bottom line, Harry's counsel failed to prove that case.
Good for you man. I think you have a very positive outlook on this and good luck to you. There are always bad apples in the barrel but that doesn't make the (any of the) services racist. I do not in any way condone the actions of the assailant but think that Harry has not done the honourable thing here. We are all equal and all this woke crap only succeeds in keeping race an issue when most of us would just forget about it and get on with the job and each other. Only have to look at the top left hand corner though to see the ever present BBC agenda.
Awful situation, and I can see why you'd leave after someone clearly assaulted you but were then found not guilty. But claiming it to be a race issue is nonsense. A pissed up squaddie jumped you, that's it. The whole "wrong equipment" being used to photograph the injuries is a real reach.
Why do we have these people in our Armed forces. Is this so they can have special privileges. I'm afraid to say it. But there is interservice rivalry. Like inter regimental rivalry. Punch ups do occur. Deal with it...
@@jamesmccann355 There's interservice rivalry here in Sri Lanka too, but it's not an excuse for assaulting. RAF must protect their members from being assaulted. If that happened in my country, the guilty will be court martialed.
@@Desertfox18 he was not physically assaulted. He possibly had a few verbal gestures made towards him. And if that's the case. Then you have to dismiss the whole of the Armed forces. Over a few trivial words. The world is not a nice place. You have to learn to be thick skinned. This happens everywhere. As I'm sure that it happens in your own country.
@@jamesmccann355 That kind of incidents might happen in my country, but our military would take necessary actions against those who are guilty. (Mostly rivalry is between Army and police here in Sri Lanka.) • You stated that there were no physical assault, but what are these at 3:18?
And yet again we get the race ticket. This time with a posh Indian British accent. I'm English and white. I'm keeping my race ticket in the bankfor future reference. Never know, it might be worth a few quid.
I was RAF, I saw a colleague of mine in a scrap with an Army JNCO whilst on joint exercise. Nothing to do with heritage/colour but entirely to do with inter-service rivalry and alcohol, even the army lads dragged the Sgt off as he was found to be drunk on the ranges. Again, nothing to do with colour, everything to do with an alcoholic individual who had no place in the Armed Forces.
That said, I don’t dispute that this particular army CPL may have been a racist as well as a drunk, clearly not representative of the rest of the armed forces. There’s no place for racism, no place for attempting to murder an officer regardless of any disagreement between them. I hope this chap recovers and I hope he realises too that there are plenty of serviceman who would have jumped in to kick the shit out of the Cpl if we saw it happening.
I think the problem was also that they didn't take him seriously in court
in that interview, I see no evidence of the defendant being racist. Not to say he wasn't, but the clear underlying catalyst for this was the effect of alcohol - a legal drug, after all and very ironic when considering the view of the Armed Forces to the possession of an illegal substance, let alone the use of.
Hi Harry, I have experienced at first hand an inordinate amount of racist behaviour and several attacks by army personnel ! Best Wishes.
Very sorry to hear of your experience Harry. Thank you for your service. Rubbish that there was no way that could be found for you to continue to serve....but I 100% understand why you did not believe that you could continue.
I think it's sad he gave up his career. I feel he became a victim of the flip side of racism. Which is everything is viewed through the lens of racism.
It would be interesting to know the composition of the CM Board, which of course is also effectively the jury and not just the trier of the law. Subjectivity can very easily creep in to an unstreamed situation like that.
Thrice in the early 1980s mixed-race I passed RAF and RN Aircrew Aptitude Tests, but never progressed any further through the Interview Boards. White non-graduate A-Level candidates with RAF and RN parents did however; one even switched from Navigator to Pilot at the RAF's expense and has several You Tube videos.
And I have only ever seen one British RAF pilot of colour, who ended up as a Station Commander.
I love the country of my birth but I know when it's racist - racist enough to have made it worthwhile my emigrating and not volunteering any longer to defend it. My nephew is still in the British Army but I could not in all good conscience say that I am pleased by that. Racism still stalks British military career opportunities. We might be of colour, but we are far from being stupid.
The best country by far for non-white military aviation prospects is the United States. Britain cannot even hold a candle to America in that regard.
I'm sorry to hear about your experiences in the RAF.
@NOWHERE PEOPLE America has its problems, but there are far more opportunities for non-whites in its military than they were (are?) in the United Kingdom.
@@jasonthomson7287 Thanks. More to do with, rather than in.
Having experienced the Armed Forces through the 80s and into the 90s (I was also a member of OASC's staff, Biggin Hill), I met many fellow servicemen of colour, both male and female and can honestly say, never saw race as being a factor. That said, it is fair to say the likes of the Met Police have been found to be institutionally racist, so it must surely be something which is likely to have infiltrated many such organisations. I also feel (especially, by the RAF) the MOD is now trying too hard to be inclusive (although I would rather see that described as exclusive). So much so that sentiments such as "White Males are not wanted" are now commonplace - something which is intrinsically, both racist and discriminatory. Surely, what is needed is a willingness to accept those best suited for the job with appointment and promotion being founded on the content of the candidate's character (and ability) and an underlying meritocracy. Any form of discrimination must be to the detriment and well being of any organisation.
@@andrewmallard2301 "[S]ervicemen of colour" Or aircrew of colour?
I agree that only the very best should be selected for aircrew, but too often that has historically meant only (white) friends and RAF family.
As I wrote above, I have only ever seen one non-white RAF officer wearing a pilot brevet. He ended up as a Station Commander.
Though saddening, it comes as no surprise to me that many (but not all by any means) British-born non-whites have little to no interest in applying to the UK military.
Though the uniformed services are clearly improving, the clear message has been sent to generations of them that 'we really neither trust nor want you to serve in our military and first response services.' That path only serves to make more enemies than friends and allies.
Get yourself back in Harry 🙏 Don't let one bad experience take away your success, joy and great reputation in life 🙏 Like you say, there are some fantastic people in the RAF. Your ability to defend yourself and survive shows a lot about your character. My very best wishes Harry.
Good of the BBC to show a bit of professional due diligence and journalistic integrity by looking at both sides of this incident…
I implore anyone that is unfortunate enough to watch this piece of ‘journalism’ to do some research into this case and learn about all the things that the BBC chooses to ignore and which Harry presumably forgets to mention. I suspect that you will find zero evidence of his skin colour being a factor. Indeed, I suspect that you’ll find zero evidence of attempted murder which is why his claim was thrown out at Court-Martial. Make up your own mind and don’t be swayed by subjective, deliberately misleading journalists that have an axe to grind. Shame on you, BBC: you used to be impartial and reliable.
If the corporal got away scot free with striking an officer, it reflects poorly on the discipline and command and control of the British military.
Really? The RAF would let you just walk away after all that training? My son was in the air force and it's not that easy after that expenditure on and time investment on training. I wonder what really happened?
once you have served your minimum time you can leave
@@Heneling My son had a short term commission, you had to serve your contractual time or buy yourself out. You can't just walk away, the air force expects a return on it's investment in your training, or repayment.
@@bettyprice6316 that’s what I’m saying
Once you've done your ROSO you are free to go...return of service obligation if they educate you.. That's why specialists often get a bonus to stay. upsets the non receivers no end.
So his whole issue is that he alleged that an Army Corporal attacked him and that the Service Prosecution Authority (majority of whom are civilians) took on his case but it was then 'lost' in Court?
I'm struggling to see the racism here and I definitely can't see the 'hate in the RAF' that the title refers to.
🤷🏻♂️
a member of the raf is randomly attacked him with intent to kill (presumably due to his race) with the military police not being equipped with instruments that could accurately show his bruises (due to his ethnicity) then they dismissed the case. I dont see how thats not a case of racism or at least discriminative negligence in the raf?
@@candyjp1 - well first of all it wasn't the RAF that was running the prosecution it's the SPA which is a predominantly civilian organisation and secondly there was no indication of racist behaviour during the attack. It was a drunk member of the Army attacking the Duty Officer not attempting to kill him.
There's no racism here just old fashioned indiscipline.
@@candyjp1 I'm sorry why is it "presumably racism" I guess you'd be correct in saying its a presumption. Why do people always assume when someone is targeted who is non white its a hate crime.
@@Prometheus7272 he didn't present any other reason and since I'm assuming he was truthful it was probably a drunken attack motivated by race.
@@Prometheus7272 I'm not saying the entire raf is a racist institution but from what I saw it seemed like the attack was race motivated
As an Officer you do not approach drunken ORs alone , you call for assistance of the duty staff this basic knowledge was or should have been stated to you at OCTU. This was your mistake, the decisions at the trial would have been based on evidence nothing else, clearly there was an element of doubt thus a not guilty verdict .I find it very very hard to accept that a Courts Martial board was biased because of your ethnicity .I served 36yrs retiring as a very RAF senior officer. I never had to deal with any form. of racism or elements of racism in that time those ethnic minorities that served with me or under my command fitted in completely and advanced in rank in line with their contempories regardless of ethnicity.
I'm sorry but this is every day or life in the civy courts system.......actually even worse. Its sad, disgraceful but unfortunately it is what it is. 😔
So someone assaulted him, and the person collecting evidence accidentally used the wrong equipment for photographing darker skin tones. To me it sounds like the man who was assaulted is the one making up the racism claims. There’s nothing to prove that the man who assaulted him was racially motivated, or that the man who used the wrong equipment did so because he was racially motivated. I’m surprised that the BBC released this, when there is no evidence of racism at all.
Oh I’m so sorry about this
Wait, what has this got to with racism?
Just proud to say im the 800th subscriber :)
Not a nice thing for Harry to experience, but surely it was for his team to do as it was supposed and that was to prosecute. Photos or evidence in general was for his counsel to ensure effective prosecution of. To my mind, the defence must have put up a better case and in the absence of anything sufficiently compelling, the case unfortunately went against Harry. I have no doubt in believing his version, but that is the nature of the law and until Proven, guilty, the accused is innocent. Bottom line, Harry's counsel failed to prove that case.
I’m a black man and future airmen I can’t see the racism here just a case of a drunk soldier lol
When it happens to you you’ll see
@@jthomas4361 I’m from Miami seven in a all black or white platoon you always have boys being boys he was just a drunk prick but that’s not Racism
Agreed.
This so called man just needs his mammy to read him a bed time story and tuck him in.
Good for you man. I think you have a very positive outlook on this and good luck to you. There are always bad apples in the barrel but that doesn't make the (any of the) services racist. I do not in any way condone the actions of the assailant but think that Harry has not done the honourable thing here. We are all equal and all this woke crap only succeeds in keeping race an issue when most of us would just forget about it and get on with the job and each other. Only have to look at the top left hand corner though to see the ever present BBC agenda.
Keyword 'future'
Why join military and fight for this country?
Not quite sure what this has to do with race?
So shocking so sad to hear this Harry.
So went to help yet ended up walking away with absolutely no idea that the guy was angry enough to attack? More to this story methinks…
Awful situation, and I can see why you'd leave after someone clearly assaulted you but were then found not guilty. But claiming it to be a race issue is nonsense. A pissed up squaddie jumped you, that's it. The whole "wrong equipment" being used to photograph the injuries is a real reach.
Why do we have these people in our Armed forces. Is this so they can have special privileges. I'm afraid to say it. But there is interservice rivalry. Like inter regimental rivalry. Punch ups do occur. Deal with it...
So, why military court didn't court martial the guilty army personnel?
@@Desertfox18 because there was no case. You rivalry between different branches of the Armed forces. And it boils over.
@@jamesmccann355 There's interservice rivalry here in Sri Lanka too, but it's not an excuse for assaulting.
RAF must protect their members from being assaulted.
If that happened in my country, the guilty will be court martialed.
@@Desertfox18 he was not physically assaulted. He possibly had a few verbal gestures made towards him. And if that's the case. Then you have to dismiss the whole of the Armed forces. Over a few trivial words. The world is not a nice place. You have to learn to be thick skinned. This happens everywhere. As I'm sure that it happens in your own country.
@@jamesmccann355 That kind of incidents might happen in my country, but our military would take necessary actions against those who are guilty.
(Mostly rivalry is between Army and police here in Sri Lanka.)
• You stated that there were no physical assault, but what are these at 3:18?
Twice as likely TO COMPLAIN. That doesn't necessarily mean twice as likely to be a victim.
Propaganda on steroids.
And yet again we get the race ticket.
This time with a posh Indian British accent.
I'm English and white.
I'm keeping my race ticket in the bankfor future reference.
Never know, it might be worth a few quid.
he is speaking against oppression he came across. You seen like a hater and jealous