Why Does This Exist? | Mesa Boogie Badlander 25 EL84 Based Tube Amplifier
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2022
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"For dudes with 8 total riffs in their arsenal, you're in the right place!" That's me! I've been watching you for a while, dude, and I love your content. Your presentation, approach, and commentary are all on point. Thanks for doing what you do.
ya 8 riffs is about right.
This and Ola are both my "Go To" Chuga Chuga channels. Thank You Sir!
Just got one of these and it isn't leaving my possession I absolutely love it!!
Glad I saw this video that you put out..I am downsizing some from bigger tube amp heads and was trying to decide on the Rectoverb 25 head or this or the mini Rectifier..couldn't decide so I bought my first Recto cabinet last week instead..the oversized 2-12".. and I love it..but I still have to decide on the which mini Recto head to buy.. great job here as usual Kyle !
I mean it sounds pretty darn good even if it's not super gainy or loud. Perfect kind of amp for a home studio.
It sounds milkshake thick. No fingernails on the blackboard or anything like that. I like it!
I really like these tighter Mesa amps... that Mesa sound is still there but with tight low end.
Bottom end so tight you can bounce a quarter off it.
Damn I think this Amp sounds amazing .. Awesome playing as always sir thank you!!!
It exists so people that can't afford the bigger ones can enjoy the badlander tone too.. I want one!
This is basically not about the price tag ... On most of club stages, you cannot use potential of "full-sized tube beasts" without sacrifice the tone quality. Most of us never will play large stadium arena venues like Wembley, but this type of stage is, what 100W amp need for creating of his trademark tone! Lot of metal guitarists understood this, and using modelers for all live gigs. It will provide them exact stable quality of the tone. For those, who need "real amps" on the stage and hate everything digital, are these low-powered amps, carefully engineered for providing "sweet spot" tone even on lower volume levels. Lower volume is not the problem, because amps are miked.
They're not exactly cheap either unfortunately. I'd just get an iconic if you're trying to save money and have a pretty good sound
@@michalkysel4351 If you use a Captor X you can take the beast out again.
Grid slammer is a massively underrated boost. Kills with my multi watt rec. doesn’t have the compressed soft feel of something like an od808 but not as grating as a TC integrated pre style. Thick, crunchy, tight brutality.
Love the two channels: both can be set for clean or high gain (or anywhere in between). I can set one for Malcolm and one for Angus (not that either are high gain but you get it). Better than a traditional clean channel/high gain channel setup IMO. Or can just buy a couple of old school Marshalls with an ABY switch.
Kyle making everything sound good as usual!
I do appreciate the Badlander series but man.. where was this amp 15 years ago?
Nobody wanted this ... 15 years ago all guitar players dreamed about 100W Dual Rectifier or 150W Triple Rectifier :) because they have seen these monsters in the rig lists of their favorite guitar heroes. And they were not aware of problems with the sound quality of these huge beasts on smaller stages. Nobody wanted to buy a 25w tube amp these times.
That Crush Channel with he Grid Slammer in front is the sound 👌. I preferred the non-Fishman guitar tone better, but to each their own.
Gonna save up for a 100W, brutal sound, and crush channel can save the trouble of using an overdrive pedal, the less stuff to haul and use - the better.
Have a 50 head. This review is spot on. Nice one, Kyle!
That ltd phoenix is sweet! Keep rocking Kyle!
I just play at home and really don’t need anything over 20 watt. So I can see why they made it. The way I play the the only gig I do has a frog on the end of it! Lol!
Are you able to crank a 20 watt amp at home? I have mine attenuated to 1W and even then I can't really crank it without getting a headache (amp is within 5-10 feet of me)
@@chrish5487 yeah got the Bugera attenuater and the SPL I can crank them when nobody is home but I just don’t need a 100 watt amp.
Woah, it really doesn't have as much gain as I thought it would 😳 not that you can't solve with pedals just surprising. I'm sticking with my Tc-50 for now, but cool review
That things sounds incredible.
In the 90's there was the studio caliber DC2 : 25w with recto preamp.. All Out War !!
Badlander100 vs 5150III 100. I need the features of the Badlander (lower wattage settings) I like Scott Ian tone that he gets with the evh , but the evh sound levels might be to much ""HELP ""can I get close with the Badlander ? Thanks His gain is low on the evh
Haven't played one in person but based on the various videos these amps seems to have a tone similar to the 5150III.
21:10 The lowest I tune my guitar is in Eb (I'm not into modern djent, core, etc more like the old heavy metal tones like 90s early 00s Iced Earth, John Sykes, etc).
Will I have any problem with the compression? Also, is it loud enough for a live-in club situation?
Great review of the BL 25 I might pick up one of these within the next month or so, but have you tried the ENGL Fireball 25 E633 25 Watt Tube Guitar Amplifier Head? I would like to see you thoughts on that amp since is uses 2 6L6's or even see a shoot out between both amps!!! Rock on! \m/
Agree that would be a great comparison. The Engl does look great.
To this day I still think you do the best reviews on high Gain amplifiers I think they truly sound the way that you represent them.
Awesome demo man. This Badlander doesn't have the eq pre gain right?
Low freqs are for the bass player, I like the the more mid attack, you can really hear the aggression on your power cords, to much low muddies the water.
I rock the same 8 riffs also...
So this is like a competitor for the Engl ironball se /fireball 25?
Excellent as usual Kyle.
Thing sounds filthy with the SD1
8 riffs for the win! 💪🤘
A Badlander that I could actually justify. Hell, a Boogie that I could actually justify! That price point, with the full suite of Badlander features (particularly the silent operation) makes this a viable amp for my purposes (100% home recording).
Could I just use a plugin? Sure, and do, and will. Could I use a modeler? That's what I've been doing, they sound great.
But man, I've always wanted a Mesa amp: and this is one that will actually make sense for me to have in my post-gigging existence.
Mine should be showing up in a day or two :)
I just got a BL 25 a few weeks back brand new and was totally worth it! Of course tone is subjective, but this amp is great for low tunings. I use both 7 and 8 string guitars. The amp is tight and articulate! \m/
I prefer the size of these, even for a 25w amp. Lunchbox stuff has never looked "right" to me lol. That is one thing love about my single recto. You can swap about any tube in that thing without removing any others.
So you don’t like your 412 looking like it has a derpy looking hat. 😂. I’m with you brother.
Is that first pedal really an EarthQuaker Devices Plumes? The one in the video looks Silver/Purple? Was gonna order one but it’s green/yellow … slightly confused middle aged man here 😂 did they change the colour on them? Looking for an OD pedal for my Badlander 25… not really digging my OD808 and BossSD1 in front. Cool video Kyle 🤘🔥🤘
It sounds awesome and has headphone out. Yes!!!
So is it worth getting for gigging or just buy the bigger amps?
Heyyyy you never uploaded the comparison between the Badlander 25 vs 50!!
Honestly I wish these were available 12 years ago, I would have picked one of these up instead of a new Dual Rectifier multiwatt. Even 50 watt mode is entirely too loud most of the time.
what you say is true, but it is surely a less metal amp than a rectoverb or dual rectifier, the headroom problem it would be the same even on a mini rectifier, but it does the creamy marshall tone better than the dual rectifier,, especially with cream-back speaker.
The fact that the Badlander's distortion sounds so modern by itself makes me think it doesn't need a boost just to be good for modern metal. I find it funny that the Badlander amps sound weird to me when the middle is higher than the 12 o'clock position, but thankfully there is enough middle for me with 12 o'clock set even with the clean channel. I do prefer the 50 watt version of the Badlander and even with the 20 watts mode at low volumes it sounds good to me.
Does this amp have an internal load?
If you had a choice between a Mesa Badlander 25 and an Engl Fireball 25, which would you choose?
fireball all day. It has wayyyy more headroom and can hang with a band easily.
Does the bigger one have a resonance knob? Some neg feedback circuit to control the low end to taste would be great for this amp.
None of the badlander models have a resonance feature.
@@sheldonswan45 Blasphemy!
I’ve never seen any Mesa amp with a resonance control
Use the bass knob
@@bucknasty69 I never would have thought of that, thanks tips
You got Badlander Tonex profiles?
Subscribed a year ago brother. I have an Engl Savage 120 MKii, EVH stealth and white concentric pot 5150iii’s, Soldano Slo-30, & Fireball 25. I’m on the fence about adding a Badlander 50 or Bogner XTC 3534….which one would you add based on what I have already. I want to add EL-34 flavor ….??? And practical input would be appreciated. Thanks for the content brother…I’m stepping up my channels game in a big way very soon !
Badlander 50 or Bogner XTC?
Also…el-84s are cool but lack punch and feel. Only solid El-84 amps I’ve played that I really liked were the Orange OR-15, Peavey 6505mh and a Panama Shaman 20.
Bogner any day man!!!
Definitely the bogner, the badlander covers the same ground as some of the other amps you already own.
@@grafforlock thanks brother yeah there are some killer videos of that bad boy. Funny I just seen these reply’s and took the Badlander out of the cart
@@JohnWiku agreed!
Can't wait for the valvestate demo! love the show!
We need a comparison between de Badlander 50w and 25w
that riff at 16:11 is super nasty
Great demo. I had tried the 50 watt version last year and thought it sounded sterile and flat (esp coming from the traditional Dual Rec), but this one sounds much warmer and has nicer dynamics overall. I really dig it with that Mesa Grid Slammer pedal also - I use on on my Dual Rec also and it's very transparent. Thanks Kyle!
The recto’s are mesa’s version of marshall’s and are meant to be sterile and boosted by overdrive pedals or to force guitarists to pick harder to get more tone. Thats why early Metallica and slayer sounded so much better back then.
That's because you cannot push power tubes of 50-100W amp to initial soft clipping, and also saturate the output transformer, when you are in small or medium-sized room. You have to turn the volume back for the acceptable loudness - but for tube amps, it means that power section is working in linear area, so it sounds like "tube preamp into solid state poweramp" - flat, sterile, with lazy reaction to play details. Low powered tube amp don't have this drawback, you can push the volume more, without killing every live creature around :)
@@michalkysel4351 yeah that makes sense, always thought the rectifier needed an extra preamp boost switch and knob to warm saturate the tone
@@chipchiperson679 This comment makes my head hurt. So much to unpack here. Rectos are literally Mesa's version of Soldanos. They completely ripped off Mike Soldano's original SLO100 circuit for the first ones, didn't even bother changing anything. The power section was really different but seriously, NOT Marshalls.
I'm not even going anywhere near what you said about early Metallica or Slayer, or picking harder to get more tone or any of that, wow.
@@michalkysel4351 depends on the amp design. Diezels are voiced to not rely on power amp saturation unlike marshalls
Randall v2-t2 demo ?
Interesting that you say the EL84 power section doesn't bring enough volume for a live setup with a drummer, I have a Blackstar HT club 20 and have the master on half way and its fine volume Wise with my band. Perhaps I'm missing something!?
No, you're not missing anything. Some folks are just prejudiced against our smaller tube brethren. They don't realize putting large power tubes in small amps starves the tubes to death so they can never attain their full roar. Basically large tubes in small amps struggle anemically while the EL84 roars because they are in their perfect environment. Just because a thing can be done doesn't mean it should be done. And any 20 watt amp that can't keep up with a drummer should be thrown away.
I don't agree with any of your points, and I speak from experience with many el84 based lower wattage amps. They just can not hang with a loud drummer/loud band environment without being mic'd. They compress early, and do not sound good being driven into tube saturation/power amp distortion, in my opinion. There is no prejudice, there is only personal preference based off of a large amount of experience.
@@belligerentamateur Agreed, small power tubes run out of steam fast and get easily pretty farty sounding.
What about the "lunchboxes" that use big boi bottles like the PRS MT-15 or ENGL Fireball 25? They have more power than advertised, definitely seem to be bigger sounding...
@@belligerentamateur I think we can safely say our experiences differ greatly. My collection (nowhere as wide ranging or expensive as yours - awesome!) has a number of EL84 amps in it and I love them all. They are painful to be in a room with when turned up. My recording rig actually has the Laney IronHeart 15 studio amp in a rack with a Two Notes Live load box. I run the amp around 6-7 and get a great tone out of it - maybe you've been listening to crap EL84 amps? :-D I know one EL84 amp you didn't care for (6505MH) - its pretty loud but I don't much care for it either (too fizzy from the solid state parts of the preamp it has - way more gain than the original even) and am selling it. But several others are awesome. Like anything else, some are great - some not as much..
If you have 2x el84 in a vintage style circuit (like a plexi) it can get loud because the power tubes are working way into their distortion range. If you want a clean power amp response, like in tight high gain amps, the power amp section must be tuned to limit power tube clipping and thus limit the overall volume.. Bigger tubes like 6l6 or el34 operating at 20w power level have more headroom than el84 and thus are more appropriate for a high gain amp power section in my opinion. This is what I learned by building my own amps. But el84 in a plexi or vox style circuit work wonder.
Are you planning on making proper Tonex captures for this amp? That would be sweet.
Already sent it back to sweetwater, but I still have the 50!
@@belligerentamateur oh! Are you going to post a sick profile made with it?
@@belligerentamateur I like the ToneX Granophyre and the Dual Rectifier you made on the ToneNet. Great job
Haven’t watched yet, but I would’ve considered this amp if it was cheaper. It’s the same price, if not more expensive than the 6505ii :(
Killed it
Eight total riffs in your arsenal?! You lucky bastard!
I wish the crunch setting did a better classic rock sound as it’s still too tight and kind of dry. Sounds like it’s just a neutered crush channel. It would have been an awesome amp for covering rock and metal if crunch was more responsive and vintage flavored. This is from my experience of playing it myself.
This is an angry comment
I am offend
@@belligerentamateurmy feelings are validate
tRiGgErEd
Angery
This video sucks because you do not say what i am thinking! I am thinking it and you are not saying it! Angers grrrrrr! Disappointment, rage, brain explosion!!!!
I have a Mark V35 and I'm considering the Badlander, but I'm wondering how much difference there is in the 2? Would it really be worth it? Anyone compared the two?
I have a mark V 90. The badlander is a meat and potatoes and easier to dial in. I love both but I gravitate towards the badlander just because of the tone and how easy it is to get what you want in a second. The mark v is just a kitchen sink of tones and I get lost lol
Thanks for the response. I get what you are saying about the Mark V's. I tend to get my best tones not using the EQ. EQ is good when you need bottom end. Badlander to me sounds like it has more bottom end without the EQ? IMO and one complaint about the Mark v 35, is it's lacking a little in the low end and harder to dial it in.
@@jjgson69 you are correct
@@jjgson69 I personally just love the badlander. You can dial it in with the bottom end and get what you want in seconds instead of an hour lol
I want a badlander. If I buy one it'll be the 100 but I have an evh el34 100watt head. So do I even need a badlander?! I mean its life would be dedicated to tracking. No live use. I think I have g.a.s.
killinit bro👍
Not sue about the Mesa but i have an Engl Fireball 25 and i'm in a band with 3 drummers and a bagpiper the 25 is way loud enough unless the Mesa 25 is quiet...
You had me at more gain!!!
How do you deal with all the amps in and out all the time. Selling etc
I imagine you claim expenses for the channel ?
I wonder the same thing. Not just Kyle, but all these youtubers
JJ junior shits all over this thing. Even with el84/s you would never know. Volume is crazy and headroom for days
Not enough blues licks. 😆🤘
Mesa is DT love
Sounds great!!!
Same reason any other mini amp exist. For budget players chasing that tone. Reality is, many over look the main factor in sound, speakers.
New subscriber broo
To be honest this $799 dsl 20h I've got is not bad considering a badlander 25 is $2200 cad 🇨🇦 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
It exists for you, Kyle. And terrible chugs. Mesa surprisingly has quite a few simplistic amps that sound great, although many of them are overlooked by metal players. Love my F-50. Seems like Badlanders were made for modern metal, (obviously) while eliminating need for a tube screamer. Seems like they'd benefit from all the other more open sounding drives out there. Mesa can never quite nail marshall/lower gain sounds, it seems, although many of there non-metal/classic amps are great at that.
10 watt is dayum
Why do Mesa amp demos feature over the top distortion all the time??😮
Mesa! 🎯
This sounds better than the 100 watt Badlander that I had and sold. It was ok, but not great.
Sounds a bit like a Joyo Zombie II, is that possible? 🤔
Yes. Those are supposed to be Recto clones right?
@@dmvancorbach Well, they are quite amazing for the price, to be honest.
Anger fueled comment reporting for duty 😡🫡
I think el-84's are fizzy sounding in general. I have a Mesa Rocket 44 with 4 el84's and I have never liked the sound of it. Not sure what market segment this is aimed at, kind of expensive for a bedroom amp, not enough power for a preforming amp. You're playing was stellar as usual.
If the cab is miced wouldn’t it be plenty loud enough?
Plenty of power for performing live.
@@Brent-Nelson68 if it's as loud as the mini rec it's more than enough
@@Brent-Nelson68 Yes, if the venues you're playing every night have Pro sound. Vets Hall and Bar shows that many non-big hardcore and metal bands play at have maybe a shitty PA for vocal mics and a kick drum mic. These are the shows where you need to be able to move air
Probably better with actives
man where be dat Triumph!?
Drop C , instant shattered realm 🙏
Mesa really missed out by not using bigger tubes in this amp!
Which is WHY..... you get the ENGL Fireball 25 instead of this Mesa junk.
Yep, not sure why they didn't take a page from Engl and Marshall for a beefier power section
@@ABHORRANCE831 That is what the 50 and 100 watt badlanders are for...
@@LOR_Official07 which is why Mesa fucked you over.
Marshall, PRS etc all those "25w" amps can be modded for 40+ because they run big boy tubes.
This can't because what, Mesa saved a quarter on the build sheet?
No, they screwed their customers Apple style, and have Apple style brand loyal dorks carrying water for them.
Badlander 50 Wins for gigs…..The 25 for practice and home studio…like them both…
Comment of the anger, as per request
If I could buy one of these in the U.K. I would.
Mesa don’t sell amps in Britain at all anymore.
Oh damn. That’s crazy. I wonder why. You’d think Mesa would want business everywhere. I wonder if something shady is going on in the trade system in these weird times we are living in
@@someonehadtosayit2566 the short answer is Brexit.
@@adamalexanderray i still don’t understand how the uk withdrawing from the EU effects trade with an American company. It’s a topic I’m clearly very stupid in lol
@@someonehadtosayit2566 well the distribution network was the whole of Europe, so you would have a single distribution centre based in any EU country and that would then ship products to any other EU country without any borders or restrictions. Now due to the U.K. not being in the EU, it’s got to go through another customs process unless they set up a specific U.K. distribution process, which they haven’t. Basically the U.K. has set itself outside the EU so many companies have to adjust the trading process, and for many companies they may decide to not bother dealing with the U.K. market due to the additional expense.
@TheBoss0Time but we do regardless because Marshall’s are just that awesome. I own 2 and hope to get at least one more - either the jcm800 2203 or the JVM 410
"have to do long division.." ROFL
El 84 tubes blow
Not to hate on the amp but honestly these amps make no sense. The 100 and 50 watt have a switch to get the wattage just as low and sound superior in live situations having 50 or 100 watts at your fingertips when needed. Plus they aren't significantly cheaper as they seem to gone up to 1899 in price and the 50watt is 2229. Sounds great though, thats for sure. I'd just dish out the extra money for a 50 watt at minimum or get a used one for the same price or cheaper.
Dudes with about 8 total riffs in their arsenal... LMFAO!
Mannn, this or dsl 20 🤔
Mesa “gain” is fizz
HOT TAKES, GET YOUR HOT TAKES!
@@belligerentamateur what's your issue with people having a slightly negative opinion/critique about an amp? You got upset yesterday when I said the orange crush sounded fizzy as well. You seem to be very triggered by negative comments and don't respond to the positive ones. I'd recommend that you ignore the negative comments and just do your thing. And might I remind you that you have your own set of opinions and some of which are negative as well. If you're allowed to have a negative opinion, then don't get upset if others have a slight critique. Ola doesn't respond to anything like that, you need to grow up a bit and stop caring so much about people having different or negative opinions.
@@mattvdh I’d rather he be real and if he wants to speak, he should. Ola is a yes man.
The second I hear or see "EL84" it's always an automatic no for me. If PRS can put 6L6s in the MT15 and Marshall can put EL34s in the DSL20HR, then I don't see why every other amp company can't do the same with their lunchbox/smaller amps.
To be fair, I have the MT15 and the studio classic jcm800 and theyre definitely louder than their listed wattage ratings lmao
What does it matter? These things are all about the preamp gain anyway. The 6L6s in the PRS and the EL34s in the Marshall Studio series are all marketing. Think about how cold the bias needs to be on those amps for those tubes to run at 20 watts. You’re not getting anything from those big tubes in such a low powered amp. If anything, the MT15 would probably sound better with EL84s because you can bias them appropriately for the wattage.
@@reverb508 headroom
@@ShiningTrapezoid They're both 20 watt amps. What evidence do you have to support your claim that a pair of starved el-34s in a 20 watt amp will give more clean headroom than a properly biased pair of el-84s in a 20 watt amp? Tube size does not equal head room, wattage does.
@@reverb508 well I've actually played all of them and the el84 mini rec has least headroom and starts farting out earlier on the master volume. Thanks for playing, though.
Bring on the Thrash!!! ✊️
I have to say that that amp sounds alot like my '98 Subway Rocket Reverb.
A lunchbox amp that’s not a lunchbox
Play freedbird!
Free playbird!
@@belligerentamateur let's make it happen lol
What amp head do you think is the most bad ass metal......not new metal.....?
Once RUclips has 2 Billion amp reviewers I begin to feel that they are redundant, unnecessary and a waste of my time. This "Kyle" guy is hilarious with his over the top enthusiasm/sales technique. - Peter age 73
Hi Karl, I wanted to ask you if your jaw muscles hurt because of the absurd way you emphasise your speech?
Creamy
I blame Gibson. Now Mesa has 25 watt versions of all their amps