I've probably said it before. Well done for discounting this silly term 'tip stall'. In >40yrs as a professional aviator I've never heard the term until I connected with this hobby.
Hi: if I were still into rc or doing things in general, I would go for one of those very tiny timbers of the umx type. But, I don't get into things these days. lol cheers. ie: whenever I get an inkling to get back into soemthing, I just watch a lot of videos of that thing and realize that I really don't have a sustained interest to do any of it. So, videos like these really help. I get over it quickly. lol;
I'd love to see a video of all the setup you did on the Tx with mixes. Or if you could make the Tx file available for download :) Great info and flying!
Your skills are crazy good! I like that you didn't edit out your mistakes as they do happen even to the best of them like you! ;) Thanks for this clip.
I have the original Timber X green and white, and I use an APC 12x6 slow fly prop, and 4s 2200 60c battery. It makes hovering and other slow maneuver's easier to me anyways. I haven't tried elevator flaps for harrier flying, but I think I'll try that. Thanks Jon for that tip. Oh also I have changed out all the wing servo's to Corona 9g MG Digital, and put smaller main wheels, 3in DU-BRO, and commander aluminum landing gear.
Great video! Amazing the way you can control the NTX. I have all but given up on mine. I have been bitten so many times by the stall tendencies of this plane due to my lack of ability to not stall the plane or recover from a stall. This is the only plane I have that I crash every time I take it out of SAFE. Still love it though. It looks amazing at night. I just need to fly it to my skill level.
If it's unstable it's probably just too tail heavy. It should fly really well with a bit of throttle and remembering not to bank too hard while pulling the elevator.
Jon, your flying is next level. I try to watch your hands on the sticks, but they are way to fast. I would love to see a video with you explaining some of you moves and what your doing with the sticks. Cheers.
Thanks man! While you wait, what I recommend doing is slowing the video down using RUclips's settings so you can view it at 25% or 50% speed. I'll make more in-depth content on this sort of performant flying in the future for sure.
Been waiting for this video for a while, your channel actually first caught my attention with a video of you flying this at the lake, many months ago. Glad I got a NTX too, you gave the best advice, just practice, and while my skills flying are maybe 1% of yours I'm glad to see I'm not the only one flipping it on landing 😀 Really curious to see what you think of the UMX version, can't wait to get mine.
Try putting full deflection Crowe mixed in with Throttle, so open throttle and Crowe reduces, closed throttle full Crowe. Great for landing. Brilliant for EOLs - flick throttle cut on then use throttle stick to control Crowe as you glide in to a perfect landing.
When doing a flat spin, do you have full span ailerons enabled? For me, it is almost impossible to enter a flat spin without the plane wanting to barrel roll when i copy your stick movements. With full span ailerons off, it is much easier. On that note, in a future video it would be great to see how to enter a flat spin. Seeing the stick movements is very helpful, but some commentary on how to set up the entrance would be great. Something else I’d love some commentary on is handling with and without floats. Where do you notice specific differences and how do you handle them? Finally, these videos are great. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Full span isn't needed to flat spin. It just helps flatten the spin out even more. The Turbo Timber Evo doesn't have FSA but it still flat spins really well because I fly with a mostly neutral CG. The key to flat spinning is to stall the model first. If it begins rolling, it's moving too fast. I am posting a float landing tutorial soon!
When watching you bottom load it, the way you are holding it the veins on your both your wrists are exposed directly to the propeller, and the model is pointing directly towards you. If it were to start the motor on connection due to a malfunction or mistake with throttle cut you would have a serious problem. There is probably very little starting torque on the motor so it might be possible to rig something up to jam the propeller while loading it which would improve the safety.
Throttle is cut and the prop can't possibly hurt me that close to my arm. It wouldn't have enough time to spin up to a velocity to do anything other than bounce off. Appreciate the concern though!
@@TwoBrosRC I was kneeling in front of one of my electric planes after a flight one day when I set my transmitter down next to me and turned it off without thinking. That’s when my plane failsafed to full throttle and came at me. If I hadn’t been wearing blue jeans and a motorcycle jacket, the prop would have sliced up my arms and legs. It chewed up the sleeves of my jacket pretty good. Electric motors make a lot of torque from a standing start. My original mistake was not rebinding the receiver after setting up the plane. During the setup, I had reversed the throttle. It was embarrassing, but a teachable moment for our club members.
@@TwoBrosRC There’s a setting in the throttle cut menu that requires you to move the stick to idle before the throttle will work. The default setting is “No”, but I set it to “Yes” for all of my electric planes now.
very expected, that the accelerated stall is less critical with your snapflap configuration, since it would stall first on the flaps (similar to higher AOA), while the outer part of the wing still 'works' to stabilize the plane
tinyurl.com/B11DLS is what I replaced *all* of the servos with. HS-85s would be too big to fit into the model without extensive foam carving. Thanks for reminding me to update the description - I could've sworn I only added what I used here. Fixing it now.
Great flying as usual Jon! As I watch your fingers, I have to figure you have a fair amount of dual rate and expo built in to your flight configurations. I’m probably stating the obvious. Jim
@@jimworley7385 Consider going to 150% rates and maxing out control throws as well. 70% is what I'd start with. Get comfortable with it and slowly reduce the expo level to your preference. It'll be much more agile.
Jon - excellent video! Question on the B11DLS servos - what horn do you use, since the included ones are shorter than what typically comes on the eFlite planes? I work with AGF on RC car servos and curious to know if you would find it useful to have plastic or very light aluminum arms with 19-20mm radius from center hole to outer-most linkage hole? Thanks, Mike
I use the same horns that came with the stock servos. They take a bit of work to fit on but eventually will fit if you jam them hard enough and use the servo screw to lock them in place.
@@TwoBrosRC OK understood and glad that is working. I will see if I can get AGF to make a plastic arm or very light metal arm for the B11DLS that has matching spline.
@@TwoBrosRC thank you, I'll review your videos and check trim settings. It feels way too sensitive. My plane with my settings. What would you suggest for a beginners in 3D flying?
You mentioned that you've custom modified the AS3X. Did this help with getting it to knife edge? I'm getting some serious coupling to the wheels when I put it into a knife edge. been Messing with all my settings/setup to get it to perform these. I can do about everything else, beside Harrier need to try your flap set up to prevent the wing rock. Excited to try that.
I'm intrigued you manage to keep within CG with a 4s 3200mAh battery. With a 4s 2200mAh battery I have it pushed as far back as it will go and I have had to insert the steel rod in the tail to get CG midway along rear window. I'm also struggling with wing-rock despite having your flap/elevator setup. I have leading edge slats fitted. Do you think that's a problem. I have a spare set of wings I might try which don't have slats fitted.
Slats aren't helpful on this model. They seriously interfere with its 3D performance and make it harder to recover from maneuvers. They also shift the center of pressure a bit which might be why you're finding yourself in need of additional weight to counteract it.
I have a DX6e and just bought a used Night TimberX 1.2 how you have managed to use the full Ailerons and flaps tried to program it cause am using AR6610 RX don't have a manual for that. Please guide???
I prefer 3200 - it's much more stable getting the CG close to neutral. 2200 makes it noticeably tail heavy and it will climb significantly inverted without back pressure to hold it steady. I don't notice any heaviness flying on 3200 that I didn't already see on 2200.
How do you get the turbo timber evolution to be crazy mine doesn't have enough elevator throws and I can't even fly inverted because the nose just drops but that's where it Flys perfectly upright
Hey Jon I been trying my hand at 3D and can’t seem to find anything about where best spot to balance this timber at the front 82 or 98 or in middle what’s your opinion? You mention in video don’t get tail heavy for it so wonder where sweet spot is? Mine is level balanced at the 82. Any advice would extremely help me thank you
@@TwoBrosRC Could the wing rock be coupled with any of your stabilization/programming - i.e. things get in phase and drive the wing rock more. I have a Bighorn (similar config, built-up construction) that wing rocks (no stabilization), but the wing rock is not as much as you should in your vid. Second, "crankshaft" is the 3D name for that sort-of horizontal looking blender?
I doubt it's being driven by the gyro. It does the same thing with minimal or no stabilization. Wing rock is caused by the wings stalling one after the other, not by the gyro. It isn't set to compensate enough to drive that much wing rock, plus it would still wing rock if the flaps are reflexed upward - which it doesn't. Yeah, that type of move is called a crankshaft. It's not a pure crankshaft but it's about as close as this model can get.
@@TwoBrosRC Ok, yes, that's right -- if it were gyros helping in part it would also rock w/ reflex, but it does not. I'm going flying today -- going to see if the Bighorn rocks as much as the Timber X - when left to rock w/o stick correction. I don't have reflex setup, so won't be comparing anything there. Wing rock has been a little bit of puzzle to me for a long time. I know it's alternating stall, but trying to program that into the aero in the sim FS One has not been a perfect match ... so far.
Really enjoy your honest flying and the close camera work with your control inset - some of the best out there. Thanks!
I've probably said it before. Well done for discounting this silly term 'tip stall'. In >40yrs as a professional aviator I've never heard the term until I connected with this hobby.
It's really rather annoying to hear, isn't it?
Wow Jon, as always your flying is very impressive and a joy to watch. You could fly a piece of wood and a prop and make it look great 😃
Haha, man, appreciate you - but a lot of what looks good is just a good airframe design with some quirks.
Hi: if I were still into rc or doing things in general, I would go for one of those very tiny timbers of the umx type. But, I don't get into things these days. lol cheers. ie: whenever I get an inkling to get back into soemthing, I just watch a lot of videos of that thing and realize that I really don't have a sustained interest to do any of it. So, videos like these really help. I get over it quickly. lol;
Thank you for this fantstic clip
I'd love to see a video of all the setup you did on the Tx with mixes. Or if you could make the Tx file available for download :) Great info and flying!
Waaaaaay ahead of you, chief!
ruclips.net/video/3r9lDPUl5AU/видео.html
Setup is linked above and the description has the servos and transmitter files.
Your skills are crazy good! I like that you didn't edit out your mistakes as they do happen even to the best of them like you! ;) Thanks for this clip.
Rolling Harriers ---> Goals!
If it helps to see how it's done, put the vid in 25% speed and you'll see the stick movements needed as the plane rolls.
I have the original Timber X green and white, and I use an APC 12x6 slow fly prop, and 4s 2200 60c battery. It makes hovering and other slow maneuver's easier to me anyways. I haven't tried elevator flaps for harrier flying, but I think I'll try that. Thanks Jon for that tip. Oh also I have changed out all the wing servo's to Corona 9g MG Digital, and put smaller main wheels, 3in DU-BRO, and commander aluminum landing gear.
I tried smaller wheels but didn't like how they looked at all.
Like always some excellent flying Jon. Thanks for sharing all your experience with us
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! Amazing the way you can control the NTX. I have all but given up on mine. I have been bitten so many times by the stall tendencies of this plane due to my lack of ability to not stall the plane or recover from a stall. This is the only plane I have that I crash every time I take it out of SAFE. Still love it though. It looks amazing at night. I just need to fly it to my skill level.
If it's unstable it's probably just too tail heavy. It should fly really well with a bit of throttle and remembering not to bank too hard while pulling the elevator.
crazy cool tutorial, timber X is one of my fun to flies you have me wanting to push for more progress.. subscribed with first video! well done 🎉
Jon, your flying is next level. I try to watch your hands on the sticks, but they are way to fast. I would love to see a video with you explaining some of you moves and what your doing with the sticks. Cheers.
Thanks man! While you wait, what I recommend doing is slowing the video down using RUclips's settings so you can view it at 25% or 50% speed. I'll make more in-depth content on this sort of performant flying in the future for sure.
Been waiting for this video for a while, your channel actually first caught my attention with a video of you flying this at the lake, many months ago.
Glad I got a NTX too, you gave the best advice, just practice, and while my skills flying are maybe 1% of yours I'm glad to see I'm not the only one flipping it on landing 😀
Really curious to see what you think of the UMX version, can't wait to get mine.
Glad to hear it buddy! I'm actually shooting the UMX Timber X vid right now. It'll go up soon.
This is very cool. I may try this with my timber x
She's a fun bird. When I got mine it flew like ass! Took some time to dial it in. Now she's a 3D beast! Sloppy, but still a beast!
Nice showmanship at the start there 🤣
You know me, man. Nothing but perfection over here.
Very impressive man sweet setup
hi timbers are good.
Try putting full deflection Crowe mixed in with Throttle, so open throttle and Crowe reduces, closed throttle full Crowe. Great for landing. Brilliant for EOLs - flick throttle cut on then use throttle stick to control Crowe as you glide in to a perfect landing.
We'd need an 8ch receiver for that - definitely not something we'll do for this model.
@@TwoBrosRC I had one gathering dust!
When doing a flat spin, do you have full span ailerons enabled? For me, it is almost impossible to enter a flat spin without the plane wanting to barrel roll when i copy your stick movements. With full span ailerons off, it is much easier.
On that note, in a future video it would be great to see how to enter a flat spin. Seeing the stick movements is very helpful, but some commentary on how to set up the entrance would be great.
Something else I’d love some commentary on is handling with and without floats. Where do you notice specific differences and how do you handle them?
Finally, these videos are great. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Full span isn't needed to flat spin. It just helps flatten the spin out even more. The Turbo Timber Evo doesn't have FSA but it still flat spins really well because I fly with a mostly neutral CG. The key to flat spinning is to stall the model first. If it begins rolling, it's moving too fast.
I am posting a float landing tutorial soon!
@@TwoBrosRC got it thank you
I thought we were doing the new umx. Great video all the same. 👋
Pretty soon - I need to reshoot the footage using my hatcam because it's hard to track with a phone.
When watching you bottom load it, the way you are holding it the veins on your both your wrists are exposed directly to the propeller, and the model is pointing directly towards you. If it were to start the motor on connection due to a malfunction or mistake with throttle cut you would have a serious problem. There is probably very little starting torque on the motor so it might be possible to rig something up to jam the propeller while loading it which would improve the safety.
Throttle is cut and the prop can't possibly hurt me that close to my arm. It wouldn't have enough time to spin up to a velocity to do anything other than bounce off. Appreciate the concern though!
@@TwoBrosRC I was kneeling in front of one of my electric planes after a flight one day when I set my transmitter down next to me and turned it off without thinking. That’s when my plane failsafed to full throttle and came at me. If I hadn’t been wearing blue jeans and a motorcycle jacket, the prop would have sliced up my arms and legs. It chewed up the sleeves of my jacket pretty good. Electric motors make a lot of torque from a standing start. My original mistake was not rebinding the receiver after setting up the plane. During the setup, I had reversed the throttle. It was embarrassing, but a teachable moment for our club members.
Absolutely. I've had that happen with a jet on the bench too. I don't mess with props unless their failsafe is set to throttle cut.
@@TwoBrosRC There’s a setting in the throttle cut menu that requires you to move the stick to idle before the throttle will work. The default setting is “No”, but I set it to “Yes” for all of my electric planes now.
very expected, that the accelerated stall is less critical with your snapflap configuration, since it would stall first on the flaps (similar to higher AOA), while the outer part of the wing still 'works' to stabilize the plane
You list three servos that you switch over to for the plane. What locations for three servos? I'm guessing the HS-85 mg is for the rudder?
tinyurl.com/B11DLS is what I replaced *all* of the servos with. HS-85s would be too big to fit into the model without extensive foam carving. Thanks for reminding me to update the description - I could've sworn I only added what I used here. Fixing it now.
Great flying as usual Jon! As I watch your fingers, I have to figure you have a fair amount of dual rate and expo built in to your flight configurations. I’m probably stating the obvious. Jim
Oh yes, 150% rates and about 60 to 70% expo.
Ahhh! I’ve been trying with less expo and much less success. 100 and 30-40 expo. I will kick this up a bit! Thank you for the quick response. 👍
@@jimworley7385 Consider going to 150% rates and maxing out control throws as well. 70% is what I'd start with. Get comfortable with it and slowly reduce the expo level to your preference. It'll be much more agile.
Will do! I’ll let you know my results. Thx!
So jon, whats the cheapest TX i can get that can do all these custom configs? I have the dx6e right now.
The NX8 or 10 should be OK. If you'd like to support us, you can pick one up from the video description of our latest vids.
Jon - excellent video! Question on the B11DLS servos - what horn do you use, since the included ones are shorter than what typically comes on the eFlite planes? I work with AGF on RC car servos and curious to know if you would find it useful to have plastic or very light aluminum arms with 19-20mm radius from center hole to outer-most linkage hole? Thanks, Mike
I use the same horns that came with the stock servos. They take a bit of work to fit on but eventually will fit if you jam them hard enough and use the servo screw to lock them in place.
@@TwoBrosRC OK understood and glad that is working. I will see if I can get AGF to make a plastic arm or very light metal arm for the B11DLS that has matching spline.
@@dynomike11 I'd love some if you could get them to do that.
Is there any difference between this and the green timber x?? Other than the obvious lights throughout the Night Timber x.
They're identical aside from lights.
So the question I have is can you reduce the expo to make it fly level, no 3d, or less 3d? Thank you fit your videos, always informative.
Expo has no relation to 3D. It's just reducing the sensitivity of the stick.
@@TwoBrosRC thank you, I'll review your videos and check trim settings. It feels way too sensitive. My plane with my settings. What would you suggest for a beginners in 3D flying?
@@capnhardway Increase expo until you're comfortable with how it's flying.
How is the motor battery mounted? Velcro on bottom?
Nope, just loose in the bottom.
You mentioned that you've custom modified the AS3X. Did this help with getting it to knife edge? I'm getting some serious coupling to the wheels when I put it into a knife edge. been Messing with all my settings/setup to get it to perform these. I can do about everything else, beside Harrier need to try your flap set up to prevent the wing rock. Excited to try that.
Nah, AS3X isn't needed to make it KE. Proper CG is though. Balance it around the center or front of the second cabin window and it'll handle great.
I'm intrigued you manage to keep within CG with a 4s 3200mAh battery. With a 4s 2200mAh battery I have it pushed as far back as it will go and I have had to insert the steel rod in the tail to get CG midway along rear window. I'm also struggling with wing-rock despite having your flap/elevator setup. I have leading edge slats fitted. Do you think that's a problem. I have a spare set of wings I might try which don't have slats fitted.
Slats aren't helpful on this model. They seriously interfere with its 3D performance and make it harder to recover from maneuvers. They also shift the center of pressure a bit which might be why you're finding yourself in need of additional weight to counteract it.
Could the timber x be good for bush flying if I used a 3s 1300
There's much better options available than a Timber X for bush flying, but it could be doable.
I have a DX6e and just bought a used Night TimberX 1.2 how you have managed to use the full Ailerons and flaps tried to program it cause am using AR6610 RX don't have a manual for that. Please guide???
Check over this vid, it may help: ruclips.net/video/3r9lDPUl5AU/видео.html
How do you like this on 3200mah vs 2200mah, I fly this on 2200 and the plane is pretty heavy already is the extra weight noticeable?
I prefer 3200 - it's much more stable getting the CG close to neutral. 2200 makes it noticeably tail heavy and it will climb significantly inverted without back pressure to hold it steady. I don't notice any heaviness flying on 3200 that I didn't already see on 2200.
@@TwoBrosRC do you also use the metal tail rod or the carbon fiber?im getting a lot of asymmetric stall with the plane
@@qqff3192 Carbon rod. The metal one was adding too much tail weight.
How do you get the turbo timber evolution to be crazy mine doesn't have enough elevator throws and I can't even fly inverted because the nose just drops but that's where it Flys perfectly upright
This vid is the Timber X, not the Evolution.
@@TwoBrosRC I know but didn't you do a video on the evolution doing 3d
Yes. We've got a setup vid on it. If you search YT you'll find it.
@@TwoBrosRC thanks
Hey Jon I been trying my hand at 3D and can’t seem to find anything about where best spot to balance this timber at the front 82 or 98 or in middle what’s your opinion? You mention in video don’t get tail heavy for it so wonder where sweet spot is? Mine is level balanced at the 82. Any advice would extremely help me thank you
We balance ours in the middle of the last cabin window.
@@TwoBrosRC thanks for the info, I give that a try
What does planes mean 3D ?
It means a 3D printer made the components for the aircraft.
How do you get so good?😭
I'm not even that good lol, but thank you! It's all just practice and not being afraid to make mistakes. The more you fly, the better you get.
How do u practise a 3d flying
Simulators are a good starting point.
Are you flying it with any stabilization?
Yeah, custom programmed AS3X to tamp down its weirdness.
@@TwoBrosRC Could the wing rock be coupled with any of your stabilization/programming - i.e. things get in phase and drive the wing rock more. I have a Bighorn (similar config, built-up construction) that wing rocks (no stabilization), but the wing rock is not as much as you should in your vid.
Second, "crankshaft" is the 3D name for that sort-of horizontal looking blender?
I doubt it's being driven by the gyro. It does the same thing with minimal or no stabilization. Wing rock is caused by the wings stalling one after the other, not by the gyro. It isn't set to compensate enough to drive that much wing rock, plus it would still wing rock if the flaps are reflexed upward - which it doesn't.
Yeah, that type of move is called a crankshaft. It's not a pure crankshaft but it's about as close as this model can get.
@@TwoBrosRC Ok, yes, that's right -- if it were gyros helping in part it would also rock w/ reflex, but it does not. I'm going flying today -- going to see if the Bighorn rocks as much as the Timber X - when left to rock w/o stick correction. I don't have reflex setup, so won't be comparing anything there. Wing rock has been a little bit of puzzle to me for a long time. I know it's alternating stall, but trying to program that into the aero in the sim FS One has not been a perfect match ... so far.
So I am assuming this is your job correct?
Why would you assume that RUclips is our job?
......I had rather hoped your video was going to teach how you got to where you are with your 3D flying 😩
That's just practice. Lots of it. Keep practicing the things you're not good at from a recoverable altitude. You'll pick it up quickly.
Dont know your mix
It's covered in the setup guide.