In Japan there was a ghost train line on Hokkaido that ran to a certain station that only had one patron, a highschool student. The station was closed when that student graduated albeit the train itself was a near ghost train to begin with.
Actually, Chiltern do want to continue running this service. It keeps a stretch of railway line open and maintained which would otherwise have no traffic, so that when there are engineering works at Marylebone, they can divert their other train services to Paddington and keep the trains running. Some weekends, you will find a full service to High Wycombe and Birmingham Snow Hill when Marylebone is closed. These services are called parliamentary trains, not ghost trains.
@@daraptor5281 You don't use trains in other parts of the country because "conservatives" (conservatards) are stupidly wasteful and hate mass transit,.
Scott Andrew Hutchins why would I need a transit, I live out In the farm land. I don’t want ur fucking trains running through our town, U damn soy sipping pile of shit!
You actually give the reason why those lines/trains still run in the video....144 people still used one of those lines. That's enough to warrant a service. I used to live in the middle of the countryside in a tiny hamlet. There was a number of older people there who didn't have cars any more as they'd either gotten too old or couldn't afford them. We had a bus service.....HAD..... At first it was every 2 hours between 8am and 6pm. Then it was once a day....then it stopped. These people who relying on the bus to get into the local town were suddenly stranded. They may have only used the bus once or twice a week but they NEEDED that bus to get anywhere. As did the folks in the other hamlets and villages which that bus passed through. Public services are supposed to serve the PUBLIC....not private business owners. That's why this process exists and requires notification to the PUBLIC about the actions the company wants to take and the chance for the people to speak out against those changes...the people who would be affected by them. When an industry is subsided by the government, it better well be prepared to serve the public as THEY are the investors.
This is contrasted by the USA where the reverse is most often the case...It would appear that i the US The public isat best, simply a nuisance and inconvenience to be tolerated in your righteous endless crusade to make money
144 passengers a year is enough to warrant a service?! 😂 Not even close mate! Especially when you consider that both Denton and Reddish South are only a short distance away from stations on other lines, which are served regularly.
Quite. It's not like Denton and Reddish South are in the middle of nowhere. But I think the train companies see enough operational benefits to keep the line available (e.g. as a diversion route) to suffer the cost of running a token service (which now is once a week *each way*).
@@danindanial Ever hear of commuters? Just a wild guess here but I don't think Houstons traffic is at its worse on a Saturday night, when people go to restaurants.
Sorry but High Wycombe isn’t the middle of nowhere. The reason it goes there is because it has a one-way platform where the train can terminate and then go back the other way, whereas the other stations on the children route don’t have this.
I have been on the Paddington - High Wycombe "Ghost Train" a few times and it is great to have an entire train all to yourself. I used to live in High Wycombe not far from the station.
Is anyone else thinking about how nice and peaceful it would be to ride one if these trains alone taking up like 4 seats and reading a good book and eating a nice takeout meal??
Videos from his other channel that help explain bad US trains/transit ruclips.net/video/mbEfzuCLoAQ/видео.html ruclips.net/video/-cjfTG8DbwA/видео.html
@@KMn048 Are you sure there is no demand? Amtrak did a report showing that demand would be greater and losses smaller if they ran daily (and again, less if they ran twice daily) but freight railroads won't let them
This isn't a sign of government inefficiently. It's actually a sign of a country learning from past mistakes and government working exactly as intended. The UK's rural economy and and the national environmental quality was changed forever in the 1960s when the Macmillan government decided to study and close "unprofitable" rail lines and stations. 2,363 stations and 6000 miles of track were permanently closed. What the study failed to consider in its profitability calculations was the cost benefit the stations are tracks provided. While busses appeared cheaper (the proposed alternative), travel times became impractically long for may purposes. Existing roads become congested and new roads had to be built. Roads and cars are obviously far less efficient and far more damaging than trains and tracks. Just like roads, rail systems are infrastructure and just like roads, there can't really be unprofitable rail systems when you properly analyze their benefits. The UK's process for line closure is now intentionally onerous and extraordinarily thorough.
Dan Hughes A lot of lines closed in the 60s that would be really useful today. I’d also build stations in the middle of nowhere but with a road to encourage developers to build there. And it would be a regular stop.
The fact there is no train line between Aberdeen and Peterhead since the 70s when the oil was discovered still baffles me, especially since Peterhead has a large port and it would be the most efficient way to move the oil onshore from Orkney and then by freight to Aberdeen and beyond. Not to mention a bus there is an hour and a half.
Yes. But do they really need a train from Paddington to High Wycombe? I'm quite sure the average Wycomber would survive with having to land at one of the other numerous London termeni.
One question. Where do they get the trains from? Last time I traveled from Glasgow to London I had to change the goddamn train 4 times at the same station. 2 of the train never showed of because they don't have enough. Because of that I missed the eurotunnel train but luckily they already new that problem and after that we could go with one later. All after we had to sleep a night in Frankfurt because there we missed the last train to Erfurt and that all because they don't have enough trains in England.
3:53 Imagine how bad the British train network would be, if it WASN'T that difficult to close a line: That's right! It would look like in Houston, Texas!
@@gamermapper This seems almost perfect. Trains aren't very profitable on their own, but with government support they can be. Don't privatise railway companies is the solution, so this really is already a middle ground. If you don't agree with me, look at the state of the US and their rail network. That's what happens if you totally privatise the rail service for passengers..
@@supernenechi Don't privatize rail tracks, is what you mean. The companies themselves should be private because that's the best way to ensure the lowest costs and most innovation. You keep the tracks public because you need to ensure that monopolies don't get created by Company A banning other companies from using Company A's tracks; that's just one example.
@@orppranator5230that’s the system we already have in Britain of private rail companies but stations and rail networks are public and it’s a complete disaster the worst of both worlds.
Actually confusing Marylebone with Paddington and getting on this Chiltern train is a bit like JK Rowling confusing King's Cross with Euston. Just works perfect.
come on people, that's the easiest one. What's so difficult in publish your proposal of closure including the findings of your transport appraisal six moths before the proposed closing date in one local paper and two national papers for two weeks continuously?
I'd rather the UK ghost trains than the US no-trains-at-all. Car dealers hand off giant sums of money to politicians to keep train stations closed, and to stick the industrial parks and shopping centers WAY far away from the residential areas.
@@ordinarychef Of course everybody wants to drive themselves, public transportation is filled with weirdos and the worst of humanity. Who in their right mind would prefer that over the comfort and peace of your own car ?
@@IbangedYaMama ever tried British public transport? Very few weirdos (unless you count the Friday/Saturday night dry trains in Cumbria- they're just drunk marras though so not that bad) and it's not all that bad. Wush they'd replace the Sprinters with old school loco stock though. Far comfier.
For some reason, the occasional ghost train (or ghost replacement bus line) doesn’t sound that terrible compared to an undeveloped public transportation system like a large country I know. Also, those 94 passengers enjoyed the calm ride.
@@silverboltscrapperor canada, which has the largest city in the world with 0 intercity rail service (Calgary), plus a rail service only once a week anywhere west of Toronto. In fact, canada's via rail makes Amtrak look like Japanese high speed rail. And yet, canadians dare say that they have any wOrLd ClAsS tRaNsIt.
i find the title of this video to be a bit misleading. i thought it would be something different and more interesting. but they aren't really trains to "nowhere." they start at one station and go to another station, just like trains normally do. they are just unpopular or infrequent. perhaps a better title would be "Why the UK Runs Ghost Trains" or empty trains or unpopular routes or anything that gives a better sense of what you are actually talking about
Reddish South and Denton Stations mentioned in this video are virtually "nowhere" as almost no one is at these stations throughout the whole year. As a train enthusiast myself, I personally found this video interesting... but to each their own. =)
"somewhere", Filip? Sounds like Wendover isn't advertising his stock photo service well enough :p But yeah, I'd say it's unlikely for stock video to exist of this specific train. Then again, this sounds like a useful train to record stock video in, seeing as it is likely to be empty.
"Inefficiency and bureaucracy" as the video suggests, or actually a process to ensure public services are protected for the benefit of citizens and democratic oversight of the public transport system?
Yeah, he uses those terms because he has an agenda against the UK (the fact that a SERVICE is ACTUALLY provided he would probably put down to a socialist conspiracy, seeing as a big corporation isn't beneffiting but the locals are.) Every time he makes a video featuring us it is, biased, sarcastic and misleading. See for yourself: ruclips.net/video/kC8ZbCOxouM/видео.html ruclips.net/video/E7PuvOKpAyw/видео.html
FutureNow London Bridge has effectively been closer to through trains for 5 years and won’t be completed for another one. And that’s one of the busiest in the country :/
The rail prices in England are absolutely ridiculous. It costs me more to get home (20 miles) via train (£10 rail ticket, £10 for buses) than it does by car (£5-£10 fuel), which is also twice as fast.
The Chiltern railway route also serves as a good backup when there is disruption to the ordinary line. The normal Marlybone to HW train is often very full with constant trains, but trains have been diverted in cases of track problems. This is rare and does cause a lot of disruption however. I have gotten one of these trains before.
many of the 144 passengers are train spotters riding what we call the "Parliament" train. Most (including me) only do this the once. I arrived at the station a few minutes before the train. Busy day: two people already there. One does not look like a train spotter so I ask if he is a regular passenger. "Most weeks yes" he says, I shop on Friday get the train out and the bus back" This one old guy on his own counts for about 1/3rd of the footfall at this station! "So why not every week?" I ask. "Well if I am running late and miss it its a bit of a wait for the next one" --- Incidentally "Stalybridge" is pronounced Stay lee bridge - Brits from Gtr Manchester will briefly cringe when we hear you mangle the name. There are
During the year this video was published, many of the Parliamentary trains picked up two extra passengers: Geoff Marshall and Vicki Pipe, in their quest to visit All The Stations (2,563) in the UK...
I live in High Wycombe! Great way to start your video! Thanks for featuring the town haha. I didn't realise we got 95 trains per day to London, that sounds pretty impressive. I've been on the parliamentary 'ghost' train once before- interestingly enough though they are looking into making that ghost route much more regular as the main line is so busy now. Things come and go!
I used the Stockport to Stalybridge line a lot in the '80s when travelling between home (Stockport) and university (York) - the service ran once an hour in both directions then. And it's pronounced "STAY-lee-bridge".
I have to say I've been very disappointed in the quality of this video, and am sad to say many of the 'facts' given are either partly or completely false as a strong user of the rail network of the UK, someone who also reads much about it and spends time discussing this with other rail-friends of mine. I'll start with the Barlaston issue. Firstly, Barlaston is around 30 miles SOUTH of Stockport, not North (I know this as a local to the area), and London Midland definitely don't serve 30 miles further north, in fact serving an area bordered by Liverpool/Crewe/Stoke-On-Trent/Tamworth/Nuneaton/Bedford/St Albans/London Euston/Stratford-upon-avon/Hereford/Shrewsbury. Secondly, the station has not been included on the ORR statistics in over 10 years, which is used to 'technically' class whether a station is open or closed within the UK, so really it is closed. D&G buses operate a service which serves the railway station, but this is a bus route, and not a rail replacement in practical terms. Also, London Midland has not served the station with a replacement bus since 2004, because London Midland as a franchise operator did not come into existence until December 2007, the previous operator was Central Trains, who were the company to stop serving the station in 2004. Now, the High Wycombe service is not necessarily operated from Paddington to keep the station open, but also to keep drivers informed of the route. This is because if there is any disruption at Marylebone Station, drivers know the route down to Paddington, if the operator decides to continue running services. I thought this was a vital part which has been missed out, because with out it, it can sway the whole franchising for and against argument. I feel bad for putting such a long comment on here and seeming to go on a rant. I'm more than happy to help amend some of the myths around our railways if anyone would like to discuss this further. I wish you the best as well with this, but I am strongly against inaccuratacy of our railways, especially when it's so close to home. Best Wishes
PolishAviation Staffordshire LOL, you're so passionate 😝 Some people have commented talking about a "parliamentary line" I'm surprised you didn't mention that phrase just explained it. So many people think that it's just the government being wasteful but it's really important- as you said. Now talk to me on Snapchat so we can argue 😂
Ok ok he made a typo with the north/south thing and yes it was Central Trains at the time, but other than that, his (though somewhat simplified) explanation is spot on.
The Chiltern route into Paddington has more than just convenience as its reason to be kept open. On occasions Marylebone station may be closed, and Chiltern trains may have to operate into Paddington instead, by operating one train a day, all of Chiltern's London based drivers can (Just about) maintain their route knowlege into and out of Paddington, meaning they don't have to hire in drivers from elsewhere to operate diverted trains, or lay on alternative transport into the crowded area of London
It is the old new north main line into Paddington from South Ruislip. The line used to be used to go to Birmingham. Seen in the btf film let’s go to Birmingham 1962 it’s the same line. Nowadays a single line. The central line replaced it and the west coast main line
Also High Wycombe isn't exactly a small place in the middle of nowhere, much like the majority of towns and villages served by Chiltern. It's a large enough commuter town to London to have this service once a week in addition to its service to Marylebone
If anyone has "have sex on a moving public train" on their bucket list, looks like the Pad to High Wycombe service is the one to go for! Side note - at least Chiltern Railways doesn't cancel every other service... looking at you, Southern
If you look up Geofftech, he recorded, albeit from trackside, the parliamentary service to Newhaven Marine Station. The station was "temporarily closed for repairs" in 2006. However, whilst the station itself has since become permanently closed, a train still arrives about 8pm and leaves about 8:15pm as an ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) movement to maintain the legal fiction of a service
There are some good reasons why these trains exist, even with one train a week, it keeps a line open and train drivers acquainted with it, for when it's needed as a diversionary route, because of engineering or some kind of problem on the mainline. The Chiltern train in the video allows for Chiltern to have their drivers know the route to Paddington if for one or another reason Marylebone is unreachable. I'm sure this would be a profitable route, as Paddington has better Underground connections, but it's almost impossible to get extra slots into Paddington, especially during rush hour, when such a service would be most welcome. So better not get passengers get their hopes up with a slightly better token service...
yer this is important, i used to live in a village where a small amount of people would use the train but it was important for me to get to school....i wouldhave to have been driven to the nearest town which would be longwinded.......i dont think americans fully understand how even so close to london in like kent for example (where i used to live) there are some villages that have no buses or really good links and if ur car breaks down the railways (that are there becaue they are old and used to be used) are the only way to get to services in a town
Do you think that maybe with Crossrail, there will be more room at Paddington on the main line platforms? Why not divert all the Chiltern Mainline services along the New North Main Line into London Paddington?
Yep, that's completely ignored here. Many railway operators want to keep these routes available to them, simply to have alternatives in case of incidents / engineering work at their main route. The reason why this route is run daily and not the absolute minimum of once a week is to ensure drivers have route knowledge so they can instantly head for the diversion if ever needed.
The Stockport to Stalybridge service has been increased since making this video. The train now returns to Stockport, a whole 2 services PW now.👍. A campaign is ongoing for regular services to Manchester Victoria but the line is more likely to be converted in to MetroLink (Greater Manchester trams)
So I'm actually from Manchester and have done the stockport to Stalybridge. its now a route which has become so infamous that rail enthusiasts like myself take the service. Just to say you have done the service. And is actually becoming so busy that Northern had to change what day and time they ran that particular service to stop so many people using it and making it a viable route again. An excellent video.
It is once a week, operated through the Summer. There is, however, currently work underway to re-signal the curve to allow operation in both directions, in order to provide an hourly service post-December 2018.
The line is known as the Halton Curve and it was a summer only service once a day on a Saturday one way. The upgrade work to bring in an hourly service means redoubling the track, an increase in services on top of the hourly one is expect as demand grows.
Good old Northern Rail 🤣🤣 did you know that they are called ‘sheds on wheels’ by at least the Manchester and hull based staff for TPE (Transpenine Express)
I remember getting a train from Preston towards Blackpool.. It was like one of those old school busses except there were also chavs drinking Fosters and it stunk of piss, and I thought Arriva Trains Wales was bad.
It is supposed to be expensive and difficult to close a station in the UK. The "Beeching Axe" closed huge pieces of the railway on a study done over just a few months! So lines that looked unprofitable for six months were hugely popular for the other six. Many lines have reopened or in the process of being reopend or campaigned to be reopened. The short sighted way that many lines were closed and land sold off has caused so many problems today with traffic on roads and congestion and over-crowding on the railways.
If it weren't for the requirement though they could run the trains as empties (not passenger services) and so cancel them when it suits them. But since it's a requirement to run a passenger service, they can't.
Many operators do run similar routes without passengers, for routes that get other (normal) passenger services by other operators. For instance, most of the CrossCountry driver/guard training routes are done without passengers - except of course when they're needed. It allows you to be more operationally-flexible, as I said. If all of your drivers are trained on that route, you can just not run the train that day and nobody gets upset. You save money as a result. This train is run for two reasons - one because they are required to, and they're required to because the line is officially open as a passenger line and so needs to have a passenger train running over it. The other reason it runs is, as you say, for driver training.
They provide a public service, so they need to go through a stringent process to close a route. They signed up, they provide. If they don't they can bugger off. They should be forced to provide a service, not ghost trains.
To be fair, any (major) railway should have a legal or compliance office that would deal with matters like this. The 35-page document and flowchart you sarcastically mentioned as "super user friendly" didn't seem difficult at all, and this is coming from someone with a bit of experience in compliance. 35-pages is nothing for an entire compliance department that, theoretically, would prioritize this. I'm not gonna say it doesn't look annoying, but it certainly isn't difficult.
Exactly and it's not like closing a line should be easy, even if it's not profitable. What happens to the people who live there and perhaps use the train to commute? What impact does that have to the town? For example a town where I used to live has a train to London and a lot of people commute. There have been threats of closing that connection, for whatever reason. The closure of that rail link would kill the town completely.
Because if it "dies" you create a town that gets left behind. You could get high unemployment of those left behind, increased congestion, increased crime, reduced life chances and you'd further inflate the (already huge) price of housing in other towns along routes not closed down. There is a reason most Governments are willing to subsidise unprofitable public transport. There is often a social/economic benefit far bigger than the loss made from an unprofitable route. I'm sure the threat to close down the route was merely the train company seeking subsidy from the government
Closing a line should be difficult! If we were at the whim of private profit seeking companies turning on and off services like a tap the country would grind to a halt.
The last Chiltern train from Paddington ran on the 9th of December 2018 because the curve of track between Paddington and South Ruislip was closed. The parliamentary service now starts in South Ruislip but instead of going to Paddington, it runs down to West Ealing and then back up again to High Wycombe.
13 years is correct; Central Trains were the operator between 1997 and 2007 when London Midland won the franchise. It was closed in 2004 when the West Coast Mainline was being modernised but never reopened. I live fairly close to Barlaston station, there's an ongoing battle to have that station (and nearby Wedgwood station which is also served by the same bus) reopened. The infrastructure is all there, and the villages are growing in population. It's a very strange situation.
If we had such a process to protect public services where I live (Michigan, USA), then just maybe we would still have rail passenger service here. But there is no such process here, and when the railroads decided it was too much of a bother, they just shut down their passenger service everywhere and decided to focus on freight only. But then with no familiarity with rail service, and everybody being forced to drive, people forgot about freight rail too, and it began to suffer from neglect as we started spending billions on highways and trucks, cars and busses. Today, you can’t even get a train to many of the places rail passenger service used to go, because the tracks have been torn up. I live on the wrong side of a 96-mile gap in the rails, left by the shortsightedness of the railroad companies and the government. And so long as railroads are seen as a private industry which can only operate while making a decent profit, I will likely continue to be stuck driving hundreds of miles to get to the rest of my state, along with the rest of my neighbors in the central Great Lakes region. I don’t think there is much reason to complain about “trains to nowhere” in the UK, especially since the system protects vital services which might not always be so profitable or efficient, but are necessary, even if just for a few people most of the time.
Ethan Lamoureux kind of the same that happens on these "ghost trains". As their are no frequency and badly maintained stations, people can't rely on these routes and will find other solutions for their transport needs
@Barry B. Benson The buses are slower than cars, which are already too slow. A trip which takes me 4 hours by car, by bus takes nearly 8 hours. And the bus has to run on roads which in the summer are jammed with traffic, and in the winter can be extremely treacherous from ice and snow, and still have too much traffic.
Are trains seen as a private industry all over the US? in South Africa all trains & railroads are national, which means that local governments can't decide how much money gets put into local trains, which means since the national government doesn't really care they are in a much worse state than they could be...
i agree, there is literally hundreds and hundreds of trains stopping in most big town/cities in the uk, i live in a small town of around 25,000 and the train station is always busy sometimes with 2-3 hundred people in the 3 terminal station.
2:55 Incorrect. It's a route retention service in addition to fulfilling that obligation. They have to keep that line open just in case Marylebone becomes unusable. Therefore they would not want to close that line!
Scotland’s train service only has two extremes. Really good, and REALLY bad. Seriously. I’ve gone weeks with literally no delays on trains to and from Glasgow, whereas other weeks I’ve waited sometimes up to thirty minutes for a delayed train.
Andrew Taylor aw man that sound hellish. All of the UK needs to get grip with its damn public transport. Make it more reliable and give the workers a proper pay rise. Fortunately all of Scotland (or the majority of it) is operated by one company so it’s sometimes coordinated a TINY bit better.
We had loads of line closures in the early 60's here in the UK, the Beeching report was based on the economics of stations NOT on the need so most of Wales & the Southwest lost all their lines , many have been restored since, back then it was thought that motor transport would be the future so the government built hundreds more roads & cut back on rail investment..
The steps you described for closure are reasonable, and the amount to the basic process used for almost all governance. You put together an impact statement, notify the public of a proposed action, allow for public input during a comment period, and hand off the decision to the governing body. This same process is followed for most government actions-including changing your name or incorporating a business. The impact statement is just swapped out for other documentation. (Go look in any local paper and you'll see a "legal notices" section full of various people, partnerships and corporations following exactly these steps for various reasons.) Is the notion that 35 pages is too much reading to do? This is about the amount of reading I remember doing each week prior to setting up a lab experiment in physics or chemistry at university. Is it unreasonable that the government asks you to put together a document explaining how closing a rail line would affect the passengers, nearby roads and the other rail lines? If there's really only one person per week riding that line, I would expect it would be very easy to write up that impact statement. The real reason these lines are still there is not because it's too hard to read a 35-page document or write an impact statement. The real reason is because of government *policy,* not the basic processes of civil governance.
+Steve Wright If the opposite of "boring" is "profoundly ignorant of basic civics," I'll take "boring" with honor. This video makes its viewers dumber.
+Sarah - You're not wrong in saying it's actually pretty easy to fulfill most of these steps, but whether it's cheap is another issue; I reckon the costs of those newspaper ads add up to more than just a handful of Sterling, and I wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if the ORR charged a significant fee for their revision process as well. At that rate, it's just cheaper to make one of the daily trains terminate at London Paddington rather than London Marylebone, because there's very little extra cost involved in that.
I'm with Sarah here, this video felt like a "look uk bad uk has strict laws and its train service is regulated by the state so uk bad" propaganda, the whole process is sound and logical.
Robert is right. The inhibition is not that it is unreasonable to do paperwork, the inhibition is that it is expensive. Submitting paperwork like this is very expensive. And you will be required, also, to make financial investments to compensate for the negative effects of the closure on people, the environment, etc.. Even if there is only one person riding, you are required to finance or provide an alternative route, or offset the carbon footprint of that person driving, or if there is a station closing, you have to compensate nearby businesses for the decrease of foot traffic, pay environmental experts to evaluate the safety and impact of the unused rails and/or station on wildlife, etc.. It isn't unreasonable, and nobody said it is. It is just not easy, and sometimes not worth it.
You the old northern rail logo that was scrapped when serco and abellio lost the franchise in 2015 it is now operated by arriva and is called northern railway. Also it's not called London midland any more as the franchise ended and the new franchise was renamed west Midland railway in 2017
Stalybridge-Stockport now runs both ways on Saturday mornings. If it was down to me I’d extend it at both ends and run it every hour between Huddersfield and Hazel Grove, or even Halifax and Buxton! Another hourly service between Manchester Victoria and Stockport, and beyond, would also be very welcome.
Actually a once daily service is probably convenient for Chiltern because it means their drivers keep their route knowledge to Paddington. So if ever the normal route into Marylebone isn't usable for any reason (e.g. the ubiquitous engineering works, or some incident) they can still run to Paddington.
It’s so funny hearing you describe Chiltern Railways so specifically, because growing up it was all I knew ... even now I rarely devolve from Chiltern, Cross Country and Great Western!
CardinalGamer like in germany, to do something that should be easy and not hurt anyone, un need to fill out thounds of formulars, u arent even allowed to bild u wood stack (i dont know if its called that, i mean wood that is used for ovens as decoration) in ure own garden
Don't believe everything they say in the video. They're not English and they've missed the entire point. They don't mention that Paddington has been the traditional terminus for that line since the 1830s, and they only started using Marylebone a few years ago because Paddington was getting too crowded with the new Heathrow Airport trains. It's in the interests of Chiltern Railways to maintain the right to run into Paddington. They're only the Franchise holder. Parliamentary restrictions apply to those that they hold the franchise from, not directly to Chiltern Rail.
I'm lucky in that I live in a town serviced by one of the shortest full rail lines in the UK, the London/Tilbury/Southend Railway which is run by the c2c operating company. Because it's such a short line they have relatively low maintenance costs compared to other bigger lines, but it is also one of the most used lines in the country This means they make a lot of money and because of that the services are better than practically anywhere else in the country. We have some of the most modern trains, and we have 224 return-trip services *each day* across 4 sub-routes (that's 448 one-way trips per day), and the sub-routes are only around 40 miles long, meaning trains are incredibly frequent.
In my town in Canada i see city bus's going around with no one on them regularly and even been the only guy on them before a bunch of times. I also seen a few news stories where the Greyhound Bus company is asking the govt to cut routes because they go to places even when no one is on the damn bus. SO this type of this is not too unusual.
I work in the transportation industry. This isn’t a train to nowhere, clearly it goes somewhere. It’s simply a train with extremely low ridership. But that begs the question - does the infrequent service create low ridership or does the low ridership justify the infrequent service? It’s a chicken and egg problem. Sure somebody like me who analyzes transit data for a living can look at a line like this and say, “this line should be discontinued, only 2 people ride it every day.” But if we ran the service 10 or 12 times a day would more people ride since the line would be a lot more reliable and practical? You won’t know unless you increase service. The government protections are needed here because public transit is a funny industry. Generally speaking transit doesn’t make money, and if it does make money it usually is that way only because transit companies only operate the most profitable routes while not running inefficient, unprofitable service. BUT......that begs the question - is public transportation a private industry selling a product or service, the same way McDonalds sells burgers and Home Depot sells plywood, or is it a public service operated for the public good, irregardless of whether a profit margin can be achieved? The UK, it seems to me, is trying to have it both ways by contracting out the services to the private sector while still regulating the service enough to ensure that certain routes and stations are always served, even if the private company loses money doing so, all for the sake of protecting the public interest and ensuring that people have access to rail transit. All in all, it’s not a bad idea and ultimately strikes what is probably the best possible balance between letting private industry handle the service while playing the role government is supposed to do - ensure that the public interest is protected
I did work experience on Chiltern Railways back in 2003 as my Dad used to work for them. I did the ticket checking with the guard (for the 4 passengers on the train) and got to go in the cab with the driver which was awesome as I've always loved trains. Then we got to Paddington, grabbed a quick coffee and then back off the Wycombe. That was a great week, I got to do a bit of everything, train dispatching, announcements at Marylebone, working the ticket office, handing out fines at the barriers. Great week that.
To me, it just sounded like minarchist propaganda. "Oooh, this flow chart looks so bureaucratic, no one would want to deal with this!". There are people educated and paid wages to deal with this, rail line closure isn't hampered by some silly flow chart.
In Germany, transit contracts are only given out for a certain time period which has many benefits: -It motivates to company to deliver good service because that makes it more likely to gain a follow up contract - You can correct mistakes like that with the next update
I’ve ridden the ghost train from Stockport to Stalybridge. It actually sees passengers each week, who board at Denton to try and persuade the operator to reinstate a regular service on the line.
having lived in stalybridge my whole life never once has it been called stall-e-bridge its either stay-lee-bridge, bridge or on an evening stay-lee vegas
Your information is very wrong in this instance. These are what is known as Parliamentary Trains and they are a relic from when trains first made an appearance in the world. To close a line it would require an act of Parliament as many lines construction are based in law.
In Japan there was a ghost train line on Hokkaido that ran to a certain station that only had one patron, a highschool student. The station was closed when that student graduated albeit the train itself was a near ghost train to begin with.
Lol that's cool they kept it untill he graduated
Too bad no babies
The student was going to flunk their exams so the train company put in a bribe so the student could pass and they get to close the station down lol.
Is there some law that prevents them from closing stations that people are still using?
@@samuelthecamel It's probably a similar process to this one, and they were probably just being nice
Actually, Chiltern do want to continue running this service. It keeps a stretch of railway line open and maintained which would otherwise have no traffic, so that when there are engineering works at Marylebone, they can divert their other train services to Paddington and keep the trains running. Some weekends, you will find a full service to High Wycombe and Birmingham Snow Hill when Marylebone is closed.
These services are called parliamentary trains, not ghost trains.
Why is this comment not at the top ^?
Glad to learn of this
Also a lot of these services are used for training purposes for both new and current employees within the franchises
Chiltern is also good when the Metropolitan inevitably fails. Which it will...this week at Harrow-on-the-Hill
Best comment here - and true.
I’m genuinely in shock at Houston’s train station. We have bus stops bigger than that!
Cisco Castello nobody uses trains in the US.
@@gfjfjufidi2880 In the northeast we do.
Scott Andrew Hutchins that’s cuz ur dumb libtards
@@daraptor5281 You don't use trains in other parts of the country because "conservatives" (conservatards) are stupidly wasteful and hate mass transit,.
Scott Andrew Hutchins why would I need a transit, I live out In the farm land. I don’t want ur fucking trains running through our town, U damn soy sipping pile of shit!
i swear I feel like this 1 voice has atleast 3-4 channels XD
and a few podcasts...
Just thinking the same
I think he has 2 channels atleast
Soviet Onion yeah, Wendover Productions
What the Wendover aviation shit that tends to be very accurate?
You actually give the reason why those lines/trains still run in the video....144 people still used one of those lines. That's enough to warrant a service.
I used to live in the middle of the countryside in a tiny hamlet. There was a number of older people there who didn't have cars any more as they'd either gotten too old or couldn't afford them. We had a bus service.....HAD..... At first it was every 2 hours between 8am and 6pm. Then it was once a day....then it stopped. These people who relying on the bus to get into the local town were suddenly stranded. They may have only used the bus once or twice a week but they NEEDED that bus to get anywhere. As did the folks in the other hamlets and villages which that bus passed through.
Public services are supposed to serve the PUBLIC....not private business owners. That's why this process exists and requires notification to the PUBLIC about the actions the company wants to take and the chance for the people to speak out against those changes...the people who would be affected by them.
When an industry is subsided by the government, it better well be prepared to serve the public as THEY are the investors.
There really comes a number when subsidizing taxies would be cheaper.
It’s not just that though. These services run purely to keep the line as an option incase of any problems or maintenance.
This is contrasted by the USA where the reverse is most often the case...It would appear that i the US The public isat best, simply a nuisance and inconvenience to be tolerated in your righteous endless crusade to make money
144 passengers a year is enough to warrant a service?! 😂 Not even close mate! Especially when you consider that both Denton and Reddish South are only a short distance away from stations on other lines, which are served regularly.
Quite. It's not like Denton and Reddish South are in the middle of nowhere. But I think the train companies see enough operational benefits to keep the line available (e.g. as a diversion route) to suffer the cost of running a token service (which now is once a week *each way*).
Huston: “Why is our traffic so bad???”
Also Huston: *3 trains a week*
Dont forget Euston I see 300+ trains
Liam Tahaney houston*
@@danindanial Ever hear of commuters?
Just a wild guess here but I don't think Houstons traffic is at its worse on a Saturday night, when people go to restaurants.
@@danindanial In the US. You absolutely can and will take one in Europe and Japan.
@@danindanial I experience commuting every day. So now you can't deny your point is moot by your logic.
And that one passenger was there to film the empty train, not to go to where it was going, I assume.
Well, nobody in their right mind would want to go to High Wycombe, so I can only assume you're right.
teyxen what's wrong with High Whycombe?
only like 3 people live there I assume
Maybe it was Geoff lol
Are you on Quora?
Americans: One train a week is normal
Britons: "Oh I've missed my train I'll wait 5 minutes for the next one"
@Adi Odjidja really depends on the route, some main line routes have around 10 trains per hour which is on average a 5 minute wait
if the uk had a route anywhere even remotely like the empire builder, they wouldn't run it very often either.
In japan, Theres train every minute.
東京民:東京に行きたい。中央線？山手線？丸ノ内線？
結論:全部いける
New york would take around 3-20 minutes for the next train, its usually between 4-7 minutes
Highly enjoyable listening to an American mangle British town and city names :D
And the word “route” lol
@@jonoesquirryl Oh get routed.
Welcome... that's how it feels to watch ANY international stuff while living in ANY country, except the few English speaking ones.
It’s not are fault you guys have wierd towne names.
Patrick Nastachowski You cannot criticise a places town names if you can’t spell town
Sorry but High Wycombe isn’t the middle of nowhere. The reason it goes there is because it has a one-way platform where the train can terminate and then go back the other way, whereas the other stations on the children route don’t have this.
Zrz ikr uncultured swines
Oh
children? i think you meant chiltern
Right! 😂
Wycombe is famous for their chair making if you guys didn't know
I have been on the Paddington - High Wycombe "Ghost Train" a few times and it is great to have an entire train all to yourself. I used to live in High Wycombe not far from the station.
James Lawson-Smith You have a chauffeur (the conductor), and a whole road to yourself, for only a few pounds. Very inefficient.
Even less so when they run it with not one passenger.
But then you would have to share to train.
well every British train has to have a ticket checker/conductor to man the doors so someone would notice.
yes, no stops
Is anyone else thinking about how nice and peaceful it would be to ride one if these trains alone taking up like 4 seats and reading a good book and eating a nice takeout meal??
EliteRowmaster. Dear, really, you sound so jealous of the UK. L.o.l.
EliteRowmaster 28 miles, 1/2 hour
Introvert spotted. But to be honest, that sounds pretty bomb.
@@eatingcereal5646 Poland can into space lol
Spooky too
Make a video about why Houston (a city of over 2 million people) runs three trains a week to a little shack!
It would be pretty short. Theres no demand, gas is dirt cheap down there so people just drive
Videos from his other channel that help explain bad US trains/transit
ruclips.net/video/mbEfzuCLoAQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/-cjfTG8DbwA/видео.html
one word. america.
@@KMn048 Are you sure there is no demand? Amtrak did a report showing that demand would be greater and losses smaller if they ran daily (and again, less if they ran twice daily) but freight railroads won't let them
cuz thats just how america works lol
0:51 Heathrow- Planes Confirmed
TheRsBritain YES!
Don’t
Please
"The service to manchester is having trouble, please board the replacement plane"
This isn't a sign of government inefficiently. It's actually a sign of a country learning from past mistakes and government working exactly as intended. The UK's rural economy and and the national environmental quality was changed forever in the 1960s when the Macmillan government decided to study and close "unprofitable" rail lines and stations. 2,363 stations and 6000 miles of track were permanently closed. What the study failed to consider in its profitability calculations was the cost benefit the stations are tracks provided. While busses appeared cheaper (the proposed alternative), travel times became impractically long for may purposes. Existing roads become congested and new roads had to be built. Roads and cars are obviously far less efficient and far more damaging than trains and tracks. Just like roads, rail systems are infrastructure and just like roads, there can't really be unprofitable rail systems when you properly analyze their benefits. The UK's process for line closure is now intentionally onerous and extraordinarily thorough.
Dan Hughes A lot of lines closed in the 60s that would be really useful today. I’d also build stations in the middle of nowhere but with a road to encourage developers to build there. And it would be a regular stop.
There were quite a few lines in Glasgow shut in the 60s, some reopened but others with good links remain closed.
The fact there is no train line between Aberdeen and Peterhead since the 70s when the oil was discovered still baffles me, especially since Peterhead has a large port and it would be the most efficient way to move the oil onshore from Orkney and then by freight to Aberdeen and beyond.
Not to mention a bus there is an hour and a half.
karma is a bitch and lived in Iran in 1972 🙄
Yes. But do they really need a train from Paddington to High Wycombe? I'm quite sure the average Wycomber would survive with having to land at one of the other numerous London termeni.
Love listening to him mispronounce almost every location 😂
Mar-le-bone not Mary-le-bone
It’s weird because he lives there in London/UK
@@cj19030Edingbourgh I think
One question. Where do they get the trains from? Last time I traveled from Glasgow to London I had to change the goddamn train 4 times at the same station. 2 of the train never showed of because they don't have enough. Because of that I missed the eurotunnel train but luckily they already new that problem and after that we could go with one later. All after we had to sleep a night in Frankfurt because there we missed the last train to Erfurt and that all because they don't have enough trains in England.
@@joshuahawkes7218 it's Edinburgh (e-din-burra)
3:53 Imagine how bad the British train network would be, if it WASN'T that difficult to close a line: That's right! It would look like in Houston, Texas!
That's why we need middle ground
@@gamermapper This seems almost perfect. Trains aren't very profitable on their own, but with government support they can be. Don't privatise railway companies is the solution, so this really is already a middle ground.
If you don't agree with me, look at the state of the US and their rail network. That's what happens if you totally privatise the rail service for passengers..
@@supernenechi Don't privatize rail tracks, is what you mean. The companies themselves should be private because that's the best way to ensure the lowest costs and most innovation.
You keep the tracks public because you need to ensure that monopolies don't get created by Company A banning other companies from using Company A's tracks; that's just one example.
@@orppranator5230that’s the system we already have in Britain of private rail companies but stations and rail networks are public and it’s a complete disaster the worst of both worlds.
Wait so Paddington gets his own train? Damn that little bear really is a national treasure.
Are you an idiot? Paddington was named AFTER LONDON PADDINGTON STATION.
West Midlands Trainspotting : Telford and Beyond! Lol.
Btw what did the bears call him, before he visited Europe?
DoABarrelRoll In the movie, he says his name is REEEEEE. We need a bear translator
@@bennickss Umm you do realize it was a joke right? You must be on the spectrum. Hiiiii buuuuddddyyyyyy hooooowwwww arrreeeee yooouuuuuu
West Midlands Trainspotting : Telford and Beyond! r/woooosh
About half as sarcastic
You made my day
theokchannel lmao
theokchannel jdkl
Its 939292992939292939292929939292939392 times sarcastic
theokchannel hu hhj
It's a train going to Hogwart's.
Actually confusing Marylebone with Paddington and getting on this Chiltern train is a bit like JK Rowling confusing King's Cross with Euston. Just works perfect.
Hogwarts is in Scotland and most of these trains are in England or Wales 😂
Is the platform 9 3/4?
"virgin east coast runs the east coast route"
*Laughs in LNER*
@@sharoneckworth5541 LAUGHS IN EAST MIDLANDS RAILWAY
LNER slaps Virgin Trains. Proof for me that the nationalisation of our rail works
I had to rewatch step 2 a few times.
As a non native speaker I am proud to say that I only had to rewatch it once :D
TheFreezeChill Good Job! What is your 1st language
i had to rewatch step 2 once a day
come on people, that's the easiest one. What's so difficult in publish your proposal of closure including the findings of your transport appraisal six moths before the proposed closing date in one local paper and two national papers for two weeks continuously?
i had to reread your comment a few times
Going to the fucking moon would be easier than closing a line.
U cant go threw the earf's dome, rokets dosent work in zpace, u cant go too the moom, weke up, the moom is hollogrem, the earf is flet! /s
And yet, it's never been done.
And nobody's gone to the moon, so...
I was joking but dunno about these 2 dudes.
I hope they are joking because I argue with flattards practically everyday.
I'd rather the UK ghost trains than the US no-trains-at-all. Car dealers hand off giant sums of money to politicians to keep train stations closed, and to stick the industrial parks and shopping centers WAY far away from the residential areas.
Keep the trains👌👍
But there are trains in the US !?
@@ordinarychef Of course everybody wants to drive themselves, public transportation is filled with weirdos and the worst of humanity. Who in their right mind would prefer that over the comfort and peace of your own car ?
@@IbangedYaMama Earth's climate.
@@IbangedYaMama ever tried British public transport? Very few weirdos (unless you count the Friday/Saturday night dry trains in Cumbria- they're just drunk marras though so not that bad) and it's not all that bad. Wush they'd replace the Sprinters with old school loco stock though. Far comfier.
For some reason, the occasional ghost train (or ghost replacement bus line) doesn’t sound that terrible compared to an undeveloped public transportation system like a large country I know. Also, those 94 passengers enjoyed the calm ride.
i am curious about ''a large country I know''????
@@yahyalaouici9749 The United States
@@silverboltscrapperor canada, which has the largest city in the world with 0 intercity rail service (Calgary), plus a rail service only once a week anywhere west of Toronto. In fact, canada's via rail makes Amtrak look like Japanese high speed rail. And yet, canadians dare say that they have any wOrLd ClAsS tRaNsIt.
i find the title of this video to be a bit misleading. i thought it would be something different and more interesting. but they aren't really trains to "nowhere." they start at one station and go to another station, just like trains normally do. they are just unpopular or infrequent. perhaps a better title would be "Why the UK Runs Ghost Trains" or empty trains or unpopular routes or anything that gives a better sense of what you are actually talking about
Parker Ruggier So you could say that the actual topic was Half As Interesting
Yep, I wanted to know what was in those places, and why those few people even go there.
He American and can't help it bless him, they often sound insulting when describing things outside America 😏😏😏😂😂😂
It's not misleading. Trains start somewhere and end somewhere.
Saying "nowhere" basically means less population or more empty.
Reddish South and Denton Stations mentioned in this video are virtually "nowhere" as almost no one is at these stations throughout the whole year.
As a train enthusiast myself, I personally found this video interesting... but to each their own. =)
50 thousand people used to live here ... *NOW ITS A GHOST TOWN*
I just subbed 2 u
Too much fighting on the dance floor
We are in Ukraine, 1996.
@@aleksandar122 1996????
TheSimulation 1996 is the time when the mission that has this quote starts.
Step 1:Perform a transport appraisal
Step 2:???
Step 3:Profit
Malte Laukötter I guess somebody never watch South Park. 😏
"On the day this footage was filmed, there was only one (passenger)"
I don't see anyone in your shot. Spooky...
Unfortunately I didn't have one of those autonomous robot cameras so there had to be someone behind the camera
So the one person was yourself?
Filip Starberg Stock footage of ghost trains? Well if that isn't a buiseness model! *leaves house with camera*
He does use some stock footage, he has an add about it somewhere I think.
"somewhere", Filip? Sounds like Wendover isn't advertising his stock photo service well enough :p
But yeah, I'd say it's unlikely for stock video to exist of this specific train. Then again, this sounds like a useful train to record stock video in, seeing as it is likely to be empty.
"Inefficiency and bureaucracy" as the video suggests, or actually a process to ensure public services are protected for the benefit of citizens and democratic oversight of the public transport system?
Except it's ensuring the complete waste of ghost train runs, isn't it?
@@PrezVeto deport and deport
Yeah, he uses those terms because he has an agenda against the UK (the fact that a SERVICE is ACTUALLY provided he would probably put down to a socialist conspiracy, seeing as a big corporation isn't beneffiting but the locals are.) Every time he makes a video featuring us it is, biased, sarcastic and misleading. See for yourself:
ruclips.net/video/kC8ZbCOxouM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/E7PuvOKpAyw/видео.html
@@PrezVeto having 5 or so ghost trains in exchange for practically half of train services don't shut down seems like a good exchange to me
@@Alucard-gt1zf The five or so are still a complete waste that don't need to be.
Do a collab with Tom Scott please.
That would be amzing!
and Geoff Marshall, and Jay Foreman
Is it weird that Tom literally just uploaded a video.
With their shared love of transport Geoff Marshall would be a better fit.
+Lim Ming Quan Citation Needed ?
My neighborhood's train stop in the Boston area is closing for renovations for TWO YEARS. I wish we had a European transit system. 😓
FutureNow London Bridge has effectively been closer to through trains for 5 years and won’t be completed for another one. And that’s one of the busiest in the country :/
Okay maybe in this situation England isn't that much better than New England.
The rail prices in England are absolutely ridiculous. It costs me more to get home (20 miles) via train (£10 rail ticket, £10 for buses) than it does by car (£5-£10 fuel), which is also twice as fast.
FutureNow get a car
The UK is basically the America of Europe though. Our trains are awful compared all the other northern European countries
The Chiltern railway route also serves as a good backup when there is disruption to the ordinary line. The normal Marlybone to HW train is often very full with constant trains, but trains have been diverted in cases of track problems. This is rare and does cause a lot of disruption however. I have gotten one of these trains before.
many of the 144 passengers are train spotters riding what we call the "Parliament" train. Most (including me) only do this the once.
I arrived at the station a few minutes before the train. Busy day: two people already there. One does not look like a train spotter so I ask if he is a regular passenger. "Most weeks yes" he says, I shop on Friday get the train out and the bus back"
This one old guy on his own counts for about 1/3rd of the footfall at this station!
"So why not every week?" I ask.
"Well if I am running late and miss it its a bit of a wait for the next one"
---
Incidentally "Stalybridge" is pronounced Stay lee bridge - Brits from Gtr Manchester will briefly cringe when we hear you mangle the name.
There are
Manchester - *normie SJW cunts* :P
During the year this video was published, many of the Parliamentary trains picked up two extra passengers: Geoff Marshall and Vicki Pipe, in their quest to visit All The Stations (2,563) in the UK...
@@Cjnw Manchester - Capital of the North
@@tomkenning5482 you misspelled hull there
@@Cjnw oh how you are so wrong
Could probably use it for Fake Train.
The perfect comment.
Or Fake Train Driving Instructor.
Best comment
I thought it said Fuck Train
I was just thinking of getting on the train and doing whatever sick things I want
I live in High Wycombe! Great way to start your video! Thanks for featuring the town haha. I didn't realise we got 95 trains per day to London, that sounds pretty impressive. I've been on the parliamentary 'ghost' train once before- interestingly enough though they are looking into making that ghost route much more regular as the main line is so busy now. Things come and go!
He pronounces 'Marylebone' right!
and pronounces Stalybridge right, but then a few seconds later gets it wrong :)
I wouldn't want standards too high. Then you guys would start expecting quality from me.
I was so happy seeing my local Chiltern Rail in a video :D
Would be cool to hear you pronounce Birmingham as "Birming-um" in your accent. That's how we say it here.
Half as Interesting Your videos are always up to high standards and this must be up there with some of your best videos
I live in High Wycombe. Time to catch a Ghost Train!
Terry lol me 2
was actually named britains shittiest town. legit. look it up XD
can you get a return?
Same mate. Wycombe is shit
Zeshan Ali mate you are probably linked to India someway so shut the fuck
I used the Stockport to Stalybridge line a lot in the '80s when travelling between home (Stockport) and university (York) - the service ran once an hour in both directions then. And it's pronounced "STAY-lee-bridge".
He said it right the first time lol
Ha I know Stockport train station like the back of my hand
I have to say I've been very disappointed in the quality of this video, and am sad to say many of the 'facts' given are either partly or completely false as a strong user of the rail network of the UK, someone who also reads much about it and spends time discussing this with other rail-friends of mine.
I'll start with the Barlaston issue. Firstly, Barlaston is around 30 miles SOUTH of Stockport, not North (I know this as a local to the area), and London Midland definitely don't serve 30 miles further north, in fact serving an area bordered by Liverpool/Crewe/Stoke-On-Trent/Tamworth/Nuneaton/Bedford/St Albans/London Euston/Stratford-upon-avon/Hereford/Shrewsbury. Secondly, the station has not been included on the ORR statistics in over 10 years, which is used to 'technically' class whether a station is open or closed within the UK, so really it is closed. D&G buses operate a service which serves the railway station, but this is a bus route, and not a rail replacement in practical terms. Also, London Midland has not served the station with a replacement bus since 2004, because London Midland as a franchise operator did not come into existence until December 2007, the previous operator was Central Trains, who were the company to stop serving the station in 2004.
Now, the High Wycombe service is not necessarily operated from Paddington to keep the station open, but also to keep drivers informed of the route. This is because if there is any disruption at Marylebone Station, drivers know the route down to Paddington, if the operator decides to continue running services. I thought this was a vital part which has been missed out, because with out it, it can sway the whole franchising for and against argument.
I feel bad for putting such a long comment on here and seeming to go on a rant. I'm more than happy to help amend some of the myths around our railways if anyone would like to discuss this further. I wish you the best as well with this, but I am strongly against inaccuratacy of our railways, especially when it's so close to home.
Best Wishes
PolishAviation Staffordshire LOL, you're so passionate 😝 Some people have commented talking about a "parliamentary line" I'm surprised you didn't mention that phrase just explained it. So many people think that it's just the government being wasteful but it's really important- as you said. Now talk to me on Snapchat so we can argue 😂
Ok ok he made a typo with the north/south thing and yes it was Central Trains at the time, but other than that, his (though somewhat simplified) explanation is spot on.
Uh oh, you're in for a factual fight now m8 😂 This guy has grown up learning all about trains so I'd get your counter-argument sources ready 😅
Most of the bits that aren’t well explained I can let go, but you’re definitely right about the route knowledge part.
Seems like 'inaccuratacy' was even closer to home than you realised.
The Chiltern route into Paddington has more than just convenience as its reason to be kept open. On occasions Marylebone station may be closed, and Chiltern trains may have to operate into Paddington instead, by operating one train a day, all of Chiltern's London based drivers can (Just about) maintain their route knowlege into and out of Paddington, meaning they don't have to hire in drivers from elsewhere to operate diverted trains, or lay on alternative transport into the crowded area of London
Ahh, that answers what I was wondering.
MARMALADE! 😂🐻
It is the old new north main line into Paddington from South Ruislip. The line used to be used to go to Birmingham. Seen in the btf film let’s go to Birmingham 1962 it’s the same line. Nowadays a single line. The central line replaced it and the west coast main line
Also High Wycombe isn't exactly a small place in the middle of nowhere, much like the majority of towns and villages served by Chiltern. It's a large enough commuter town to London to have this service once a week in addition to its service to Marylebone
SLwootwootUK not exactly far away from me. It’s. bus ride. I’m from Uxbridge
We made it boys!!!!! Wycombe has now been viewed by 2M ppl. So proud
I used to live in Barlaston and was shocked to find out why they started running a rail replacement bus all those years ago 😅
If anyone has "have sex on a moving public train" on their bucket list, looks like the Pad to High Wycombe service is the one to go for!
Side note - at least Chiltern Railways doesn't cancel every other service... looking at you, Southern
Don't tell me, they don't have CCTV on the trains. Would be a big surprise.
The bucket list of sex on a train will be ticked off.
9 months later...
A kid is born. He is named Ghost Train.
EinChris75 true... But if no one sees you, no one reports you, no one checks the CCTV, you're good to go!
Musical Neptunian just wanna call my kids that now!
It's not fun though when no one is watching
YAY finally something UK related!
Does it matter what country it is related to
Renji Khan
I don't know what country you're from but I'm guessing the majority of your countrymen would rather you didn't have access to a keyboard.
If you look up Geofftech, he recorded, albeit from trackside, the parliamentary service to Newhaven Marine Station. The station was "temporarily closed for repairs" in 2006. However, whilst the station itself has since become permanently closed, a train still arrives about 8pm and leaves about 8:15pm as an ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) movement to maintain the legal fiction of a service
VTEC No-longer operates the East Coast route. It's now operated by LNER.
I think that back then it was operated by VTEC.
@@PottersVideos2 I didn't know Honda supplied train engines lol
LNER is the government run company.
How to close a railway route in the Philippines!!!
Basically. Just build houses on the tracks or use the PNR right of way for road infrastructure.
Psst, you used the old Northern logo, and London Midland didn't exist in 2004 either! ;)
Nfinity they don’t on the Birmingham to London Euston line
Silverlink my man
@@pathowgate2544 central trains
There are some good reasons why these trains exist, even with one train a week, it keeps a line open and train drivers acquainted with it, for when it's needed as a diversionary route, because of engineering or some kind of problem on the mainline. The Chiltern train in the video allows for Chiltern to have their drivers know the route to Paddington if for one or another reason Marylebone is unreachable. I'm sure this would be a profitable route, as Paddington has better Underground connections, but it's almost impossible to get extra slots into Paddington, especially during rush hour, when such a service would be most welcome. So better not get passengers get their hopes up with a slightly better token service...
barvdw it probably be more efficient just to build a real.highway
A highway into a city with no more room to accomodate more cars? A 6-lane highway compared to a double-track railway? I'll assume you're trolling.
yer this is important, i used to live in a village where a small amount of people would use the train but it was important for me to get to school....i wouldhave to have been driven to the nearest town which would be longwinded.......i dont think americans fully understand how even so close to london in like kent for example (where i used to live) there are some villages that have no buses or really good links and if ur car breaks down the railways (that are there becaue they are old and used to be used) are the only way to get to services in a town
Do you think that maybe with Crossrail, there will be more room at Paddington on the main line platforms? Why not divert all the Chiltern Mainline services along the New North Main Line into London Paddington?
barvdw no more room to accommodate cars? Really?
These trains are run to maintain to maintain drivers Route Knowledge as Paddington id the diversion for Marylebone.
Yep, that's completely ignored here. Many railway operators want to keep these routes available to them, simply to have alternatives in case of incidents / engineering work at their main route. The reason why this route is run daily and not the absolute minimum of once a week is to ensure drivers have route knowledge so they can instantly head for the diversion if ever needed.
The Stockport to Stalybridge service has been increased since making this video. The train now returns to Stockport, a whole 2 services PW now.👍. A campaign is ongoing for regular services to Manchester Victoria but the line is more likely to be converted in to MetroLink (Greater Manchester trams)
The USA is in no position to lecture anyone about public transport.
And you are in no position to lecture anyone about public transport.
Yeah, Sure Actually, yes I am. I have used it on five continents and so can compare and contrast the systems.
Just because you've sat on a train does not mean you can build one.
Yeah, Sure It doesn't. And I've never said such a thing. That's your straw man.
Okay Walter Mitty, whatever you say.
So I'm actually from Manchester and have done the stockport to Stalybridge. its now a route which has become so infamous that rail enthusiasts like myself take the service. Just to say you have done the service. And is actually becoming so busy that Northern had to change what day and time they ran that particular service to stop so many people using it and making it a viable route again.
An excellent video.
There is another parliamentary train n the UK that's worse than 1 per year. The Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn... 1 train per year...
Why would you go from Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn anyway though? Much faster and easier to use Merseyrail surely
It is once a week, operated through the Summer. There is, however, currently work underway to re-signal the curve to allow operation in both directions, in order to provide an hourly service post-December 2018.
Does the train provide complementary larger and flakies?
Spot on it takes like 35 mins from Chester to Liverpool
The line is known as the Halton Curve and it was a summer only service once a day on a Saturday one way. The upgrade work to bring in an hourly service means redoubling the track, an increase in services on top of the hourly one is expect as demand grows.
Good old Northern Rail 🤣🤣 did you know that they are called ‘sheds on wheels’ by at least the Manchester and hull based staff for TPE (Transpenine Express)
I remember getting a train from Preston towards Blackpool.. It was like one of those old school busses except there were also chavs drinking Fosters and it stunk of piss, and I thought Arriva Trains Wales was bad.
It is supposed to be expensive and difficult to close a station in the UK. The "Beeching Axe" closed huge pieces of the railway on a study done over just a few months! So lines that looked unprofitable for six months were hugely popular for the other six. Many lines have reopened or in the process of being reopend or campaigned to be reopened.
The short sighted way that many lines were closed and land sold off has caused so many problems today with traffic on roads and congestion and over-crowding on the railways.
my local train company is scotrail and when there is a delay Scotland stops
Preach, Dundee - Aberdeen line always has delays!
Alex Marr and inverclyde, ayrshire-stranraer
"We are sorry to announce" should be ScotRail's motto
The chiltern route is run for driver training purposes, not for the sake of running it
well if they have to use it,better to use it for training than to put experienced drivers on an unwanted(by the company) route.
If it weren't for the requirement though they could run the trains as empties (not passenger services) and so cancel them when it suits them. But since it's a requirement to run a passenger service, they can't.
Da Kat it is done SOLELY for driver training
Muzer0 What's the point in running the route without passengers?
Many operators do run similar routes without passengers, for routes that get other (normal) passenger services by other operators. For instance, most of the CrossCountry driver/guard training routes are done without passengers - except of course when they're needed. It allows you to be more operationally-flexible, as I said. If all of your drivers are trained on that route, you can just not run the train that day and nobody gets upset. You save money as a result. This train is run for two reasons - one because they are required to, and they're required to because the line is officially open as a passenger line and so needs to have a passenger train running over it. The other reason it runs is, as you say, for driver training.
They provide a public service, so they need to go through a stringent process to close a route. They signed up, they provide. If they don't they can bugger off. They should be forced to provide a service, not ghost trains.
To be fair, any (major) railway should have a legal or compliance office that would deal with matters like this. The 35-page document and flowchart you sarcastically mentioned as "super user friendly" didn't seem difficult at all, and this is coming from someone with a bit of experience in compliance. 35-pages is nothing for an entire compliance department that, theoretically, would prioritize this.
I'm not gonna say it doesn't look annoying, but it certainly isn't difficult.
Exactly and it's not like closing a line should be easy, even if it's not profitable. What happens to the people who live there and perhaps use the train to commute? What impact does that have to the town? For example a town where I used to live has a train to London and a lot of people commute. There have been threats of closing that connection, for whatever reason. The closure of that rail link would kill the town completely.
Vaputi - And? Is there any particular reason that that town should "live"?
Because if it "dies" you create a town that gets left behind. You could get high unemployment of those left behind, increased congestion, increased crime, reduced life chances and you'd further inflate the (already huge) price of housing in other towns along routes not closed down.
There is a reason most Governments are willing to subsidise unprofitable public transport. There is often a social/economic benefit far bigger than the loss made from an unprofitable route.
I'm sure the threat to close down the route was merely the train company seeking subsidy from the government
Closing a line should be difficult! If we were at the whim of private profit seeking companies turning on and off services like a tap the country would grind to a halt.
Capitalism is such a terrible thing...
Again, with the transitions. Keep up the great work!
The last Chiltern train from Paddington ran on the 9th of December 2018 because the curve of track between Paddington and South Ruislip was closed. The parliamentary service now starts in South Ruislip but instead of going to Paddington, it runs down to West Ealing and then back up again to High Wycombe.
Temporary as 13 years LMAO
Michael King london midland has only had the franchise for 10 years so they didn't start that
13 years is correct; Central Trains were the operator between 1997 and 2007 when London Midland won the franchise. It was closed in 2004 when the West Coast Mainline was being modernised but never reopened. I live fairly close to Barlaston station, there's an ongoing battle to have that station (and nearby Wedgwood station which is also served by the same bus) reopened. The infrastructure is all there, and the villages are growing in population. It's a very strange situation.
Its the *temporary* train
I just hope that the new franchise would start running trains there
Andy Wright the new franchise is considering re opening barlaston or Wedgwood
If we had such a process to protect public services where I live (Michigan, USA), then just maybe we would still have rail passenger service here. But there is no such process here, and when the railroads decided it was too much of a bother, they just shut down their passenger service everywhere and decided to focus on freight only. But then with no familiarity with rail service, and everybody being forced to drive, people forgot about freight rail too, and it began to suffer from neglect as we started spending billions on highways and trucks, cars and busses. Today, you can’t even get a train to many of the places rail passenger service used to go, because the tracks have been torn up. I live on the wrong side of a 96-mile gap in the rails, left by the shortsightedness of the railroad companies and the government. And so long as railroads are seen as a private industry which can only operate while making a decent profit, I will likely continue to be stuck driving hundreds of miles to get to the rest of my state, along with the rest of my neighbors in the central Great Lakes region. I don’t think there is much reason to complain about “trains to nowhere” in the UK, especially since the system protects vital services which might not always be so profitable or efficient, but are necessary, even if just for a few people most of the time.
Ethan Lamoureux kind of the same that happens on these "ghost trains". As their are no frequency and badly maintained stations, people can't rely on these routes and will find other solutions for their transport needs
Michigan has buses though.
@Barry B. Benson
The buses are slower than cars, which are already too slow. A trip which takes me 4 hours by car, by bus takes nearly 8 hours. And the bus has to run on roads which in the summer are jammed with traffic, and in the winter can be extremely treacherous from ice and snow, and still have too much traffic.
Are trains seen as a private industry all over the US? in South Africa all trains & railroads are national, which means that local governments can't decide how much money gets put into local trains, which means since the national government doesn't really care they are in a much worse state than they could be...
i agree, there is literally hundreds and hundreds of trains stopping in most big town/cities in the uk, i live in a small town of around 25,000 and the train station is always busy sometimes with 2-3 hundred people in the 3 terminal station.
2:55 Incorrect. It's a route retention service in addition to fulfilling that obligation. They have to keep that line open just in case Marylebone becomes unusable. Therefore they would not want to close that line!
Scotland’s train service only has two extremes. Really good, and REALLY bad. Seriously. I’ve gone weeks with literally no delays on trains to and from Glasgow, whereas other weeks I’ve waited sometimes up to thirty minutes for a delayed train.
Up to thirty... up to... oh lord save me. Thirty MINUTES for a delayed train.
*cries in American*
mann down south theres been days where trains that run hourly have had 2 trains cancelled leaving a 3 hour wait
Andrew Taylor aw man that sound hellish. All of the UK needs to get grip with its damn public transport. Make it more reliable and give the workers a proper pay rise. Fortunately all of Scotland (or the majority of it) is operated by one company so it’s sometimes coordinated a TINY bit better.
meanwhile, in Japan a railway company apologised to all customers after being 20 SECONDS EARLY!
Lmfao half an hour is not that long. There's usually a good reason for those kinds of delays
We had loads of line closures in the early 60's here in the UK, the Beeching report was based on the economics of stations NOT on the need so most of Wales & the Southwest lost all their lines , many have been restored since, back then it was thought that motor transport would be the future so the government built hundreds more roads & cut back on rail investment..
The Scottish Government awards contracts for Scotrail, not the UK Government.
The steps you described for closure are reasonable, and the amount to the basic process used for almost all governance. You put together an impact statement, notify the public of a proposed action, allow for public input during a comment period, and hand off the decision to the governing body.
This same process is followed for most government actions-including changing your name or incorporating a business. The impact statement is just swapped out for other documentation. (Go look in any local paper and you'll see a "legal notices" section full of various people, partnerships and corporations following exactly these steps for various reasons.)
Is the notion that 35 pages is too much reading to do? This is about the amount of reading I remember doing each week prior to setting up a lab experiment in physics or chemistry at university.
Is it unreasonable that the government asks you to put together a document explaining how closing a rail line would affect the passengers, nearby roads and the other rail lines? If there's really only one person per week riding that line, I would expect it would be very easy to write up that impact statement.
The real reason these lines are still there is not because it's too hard to read a 35-page document or write an impact statement. The real reason is because of government *policy,* not the basic processes of civil governance.
I am a member of the roundabout appreciation society (in case you believed you are the most boring person in the UK)
+Steve Wright If the opposite of "boring" is "profoundly ignorant of basic civics," I'll take "boring" with honor. This video makes its viewers dumber.
+Sarah - You're not wrong in saying it's actually pretty easy to fulfill most of these steps, but whether it's cheap is another issue; I reckon the costs of those newspaper ads add up to more than just a handful of Sterling, and I wouldn't be in the slightest surprised if the ORR charged a significant fee for their revision process as well. At that rate, it's just cheaper to make one of the daily trains terminate at London Paddington rather than London Marylebone, because there's very little extra cost involved in that.
I'm with Sarah here, this video felt like a "look uk bad uk has strict laws and its train service is regulated by the state so uk bad" propaganda, the whole process is sound and logical.
Robert is right. The inhibition is not that it is unreasonable to do paperwork, the inhibition is that it is expensive. Submitting paperwork like this is very expensive. And you will be required, also, to make financial investments to compensate for the negative effects of the closure on people, the environment, etc.. Even if there is only one person riding, you are required to finance or provide an alternative route, or offset the carbon footprint of that person driving, or if there is a station closing, you have to compensate nearby businesses for the decrease of foot traffic, pay environmental experts to evaluate the safety and impact of the unused rails and/or station on wildlife, etc..
It isn't unreasonable, and nobody said it is. It is just not easy, and sometimes not worth it.
_Half as interesting? More like Twice as Interesting...._
Dani Oláh *Triple as Interesting
Have to 100% agree
Too interesting by half
Twice as banterous.
Half as interesting as something 4 times as interesting.
Who’s watching this after the Paddington-High Wycombe closure last Friday?
Jarrod Baniqued ooh 😮 it closed?
@@Sarahbryson321 HS2 will go through Paddington so the train now goes to West Ealing instead ruclips.net/video/p5z8MH9ETF0/видео.html
Me.
4:08 ghost train is a ride in Thorpe park, very near where you are focused on
You the old northern rail logo that was scrapped when serco and abellio lost the franchise in 2015 it is now operated by arriva and is called northern railway. Also it's not called London midland any more as the franchise ended and the new franchise was renamed west Midland railway in 2017
Stalybridge-Stockport now runs both ways on Saturday mornings. If it was down to me I’d extend it at both ends and run it every hour between Huddersfield and Hazel Grove, or even Halifax and Buxton! Another hourly service between Manchester Victoria and Stockport, and beyond, would also be very welcome.
"on this day there was only one [passenger]" hmmm I wonder who that might have been ;)
Rafael Dos Santos probably Geoff Marshall
No, it's the cameraman.
Rafael Dos Santos I was thinking... the guard
I like this channel
3:05 I live in Stockport, about 3 mins away from the track here, I hear it maybe once in a good month
Haha it feels bizarre to hear your little town mentioned in a series you love :D
Can confirm the Reddish South station is more than deserted.
That looked like a big concrete slab and nothing more. Is there an actual employee there?
dugroz No, the majority of UK rail stations are unmanned. Only big ones have any staff
It's exactly what it is, like Claaxon said below we've got a lot of unmaned very small stations around.
I agree, I live in Stockport. See you around :P
Timothy Hilditch reddish south is my local station 🤣🤣
Actually a once daily service is probably convenient for Chiltern because it means their drivers keep their route knowledge to Paddington. So if ever the normal route into Marylebone isn't usable for any reason (e.g. the ubiquitous engineering works, or some incident) they can still run to Paddington.
c2c do the same thing by having some empty services running to liverpool street
Since May 2018, Stockport-Stalybridge now has two trains a week (once each way) on Saturdays.
Barlaston is about 30 miles to the south of Denton not north :p
I believe they're called parliamentary trains
Yes they are. There is a one way service from Liverpool to Hull once a week at like 05:40 on a Thursday which fulfils the requirement.
yes they are
Of all the squarespace influencer endorsements I've seen, this one had to be the highest-effort one. Kudos.
Well on Sunday 9th December 2018 this route will see its last due to the HS2 and Crossrail projects.
This closure process seems simple and easy! ...compared to being elected mayor of the city of London.
It’s so funny hearing you describe Chiltern Railways so specifically, because growing up it was all I knew ... even now I rarely devolve from Chiltern, Cross Country and Great Western!
Yes something UK based
Wow, so it's just like Florida traffic and accident laws. They all suck.
CardinalGamer like in germany, to do something that should be easy and not hurt anyone, un need to fill out thounds of formulars, u arent even allowed to bild u wood stack (i dont know if its called that, i mean wood that is used for ovens as decoration) in ure own garden
Don't believe everything they say in the video. They're not English and they've missed the entire point. They don't mention that Paddington has been the traditional terminus for that line since the 1830s, and they only started using Marylebone a few years ago because Paddington was getting too crowded with the new Heathrow Airport trains. It's in the interests of Chiltern Railways to maintain the right to run into Paddington. They're only the Franchise holder. Parliamentary restrictions apply to those that they hold the franchise from, not directly to Chiltern Rail.
....... except its probably not killing or requiring u to go to a law
Helps infrastructure
You don't understand the History of this, google Beeching report.
I'm lucky in that I live in a town serviced by one of the shortest full rail lines in the UK, the London/Tilbury/Southend Railway which is run by the c2c operating company. Because it's such a short line they have relatively low maintenance costs compared to other bigger lines, but it is also one of the most used lines in the country This means they make a lot of money and because of that the services are better than practically anywhere else in the country. We have some of the most modern trains, and we have 224 return-trip services *each day* across 4 sub-routes (that's 448 one-way trips per day), and the sub-routes are only around 40 miles long, meaning trains are incredibly frequent.
Yay UK stuff!
In my town in Canada i see city bus's going around with no one on them regularly and even been the only guy on them before a bunch of times. I also seen a few news stories where the Greyhound Bus company is asking the govt to cut routes because they go to places even when no one is on the damn bus. SO this type of this is not too unusual.
Try riding some of our trains after dark, especially to the rougher parts of London. Enjoy!
Please be more pesimistic when talking about the UK, we find optimism fearful.
George Britten let’s drown the UK in raw sewage! It will be great I tell ya!
I work in the transportation industry. This isn’t a train to nowhere, clearly it goes somewhere. It’s simply a train with extremely low ridership. But that begs the question - does the infrequent service create low ridership or does the low ridership justify the infrequent service? It’s a chicken and egg problem. Sure somebody like me who analyzes transit data for a living can look at a line like this and say, “this line should be discontinued, only 2 people ride it every day.” But if we ran the service 10 or 12 times a day would more people ride since the line would be a lot more reliable and practical? You won’t know unless you increase service.
The government protections are needed here because public transit is a funny industry. Generally speaking transit doesn’t make money, and if it does make money it usually is that way only because transit companies only operate the most profitable routes while not running inefficient, unprofitable service.
BUT......that begs the question - is public transportation a private industry selling a product or service, the same way McDonalds sells burgers and Home Depot sells plywood, or is it a public service operated for the public good, irregardless of whether a profit margin can be achieved?
The UK, it seems to me, is trying to have it both ways by contracting out the services to the private sector while still regulating the service enough to ensure that certain routes and stations are always served, even if the private company loses money doing so, all for the sake of protecting the public interest and ensuring that people have access to rail transit.
All in all, it’s not a bad idea and ultimately strikes what is probably the best possible balance between letting private industry handle the service while playing the role government is supposed to do - ensure that the public interest is protected
Irregardless is not a word
@@jimmcdiarmid7308 yes , it is
Idk about you but it sounds like socialism to me. And the fact that it works is an example of it being better
Pratiyush Pandey It is a form of socialism. So what
I did work experience on Chiltern Railways back in 2003 as my Dad used to work for them. I did the ticket checking with the guard (for the 4 passengers on the train) and got to go in the cab with the driver which was awesome as I've always loved trains. Then we got to Paddington, grabbed a quick coffee and then back off the Wycombe. That was a great week, I got to do a bit of everything, train dispatching, announcements at Marylebone, working the ticket office, handing out fines at the barriers. Great week that.
Sometimes being alone in a train is just chilling !
Know How especially without muslim migrants
Have to say, didn't expect seeing you here at all.
Long time no see, my imperialist frenemy
What are you even talking about?!
I'm as anti-imperialist as I can get!
you can say whatever you want but your actions wont cover you
I laughed way too much at the super user friendly flowchart
To me, it just sounded like minarchist propaganda. "Oooh, this flow chart looks so bureaucratic, no one would want to deal with this!". There are people educated and paid wages to deal with this, rail line closure isn't hampered by some silly flow chart.
In Germany, transit contracts are only given out for a certain time period which has many benefits:
-It motivates to company to deliver good service because that makes it more likely to gain a follow up contract
- You can correct mistakes like that with the next update
Honestly despite the sarcasm, it DOESN'T seem too difficult to close a line.
The Chiltern Paddington train doesn't exist anymore. *nudge nudge*. It goes from South Ruislip to West Ealing then to High Wycombe now.
Isn't SR an underground station?
@@toukyoumasters3494 Underground and National Rail.
I’ve ridden the ghost train from Stockport to Stalybridge. It actually sees passengers each week, who board at Denton to try and persuade the operator to reinstate a regular service on the line.
having lived in stalybridge my whole life never once has it been called stall-e-bridge its either stay-lee-bridge, bridge or on an evening stay-lee vegas
As someone who lives about 20 minutes away, I concur
Heyday123 when 😂
He's not British, give the guy a break
I've re-listened a few times and he's definitely saying Stay-lee-bridge, wtf are you smoking?
I'm English too.
Your information is very wrong in this instance. These are what is known as Parliamentary Trains and they are a relic from when trains first made an appearance in the world. To close a line it would require an act of Parliament as many lines construction are based in law.
His information is accurate.
yer watching this as a person from the uk, im just like nooooppppppe