Here is a brief follow-up to this video. just wanted to show that the midrange controls effect different frequencies. The 6505 midrange control adjusts around 500hz-1k, while the rev G dual rec is more scooped in that same range, and the mid control on the rev G is around 250-500hz. I think this more than anything is why the two amps usually sound different from each other and thought this information might be interesting to some people. ruclips.net/video/xFXR8lB3gpM/видео.html&ab_channel=MetalheadProductions
Good job. Yeah, I've played both amps quite a bit. The amount I had to push the dual rectifier to get the gain in the same ball park as a 5150 on like 3 was ridiculous. Even just the gain character of both amps was a bit different, with the dual rec being so much drier. This was also a mid 2000's rev (G I think?)
Thanks, man. I just wanted to show that Amos can make a big tone difference in there own, you know. Don't need people thinking every amp sounds the same with the same speaker, although I did go out of my way to same the biggest impact to tone is the speaker, cab and mics, would never argue against that.
Just to note, Glenn did address this in his video. He does admit that he dialed them in to be as close as possible, and the point of doing that in his words was to show that if one amp can be dialed in to sound nearly identical to the other (especially in a full mix context), then why buy both of them? Hence I believe he was attempting to show how one does not need to buy a ton of different amps based around the same base circuit, instead buy 1 and you can dial it in as you need, and then use speakers / cabs / mics to alter it even futher.
Glenn did a followup video where he was a lot less over the top and inflammatory where he addresses the backlash to his video and explained that he does think amps can make a difference in tone, mentions he beta lead sounding different from a 5150, and that all he was trying to do was push the importance of speakers and mic placement, which is did agree were the most important in this video. While I appreciate his clarification and that he rocked down his persona to make it, perhaps in future if he doesn't want to be misunderstood he should be so hyperbolic and insulting, and he probably shouldn't make statements like, "it's not the amp, dumb@$s!" Or say that guitarists saying they hear the differences between their amps are just trying to cope with buying a whole bunch of amps. Those things taken literally are why there was this strong reaction to begin with.
I have both a Tri Rec and a 5150. The key point is that they can be tweaked to sound quite similar, which is true. The emphasis wasn't on them being similar on any setting, but rather on the fact that they can be dialed in to sound very close and still be usable. However, the settings at which they would sound similar aren't necessarily the sweet spot for either amp. It appears that you didn't make an effort to match the tones; instead, you simply highlighted the strengths of each amp. The implication wasn't that a scooped Mesa sounds identical to a tight Peavey. Just that you can dial these amps to sound similar. Which you absolutely can.
Yes, I agree. I think the point is you wouldn't need to buy a 5150 and a Dual Rec for different flavors. You could save your money and tweak either EQ to sound like the other.
I’m glad people are making videos like these. I wanted to do this, but I don’t own a rectifier anymore, only a 6505+ and a 5150. But I’ve worked with rectifiers plenty and they sound very different from a 6505 or 5150. I can get them to sound very close with major eq moves, but the amps inherent qualities are pretty different. I get the point Glenn was trying to make, speaker placement really does matter more than the amp in my experience, but I was left scratching my head wondering if he really did switch the amp at all in those clips. Even when watching the video, I thought that quip was really out of place and uncalled for. Like he snapped for an amicable disagreement. Idk, Glenn is a smart guy, I’ve learned quite a bit from his channel over the years, but seems like there are certain things you just can’t tell him anything about.
I agree with how important the speaker is too, I just don't like that he made it out like amps don't make big tonal change. He went out of his way to mislead people and threw insults all over the place while doing it. I wasn't down for that.
@@MetalHeadProductions 💯 yeah, completely agree. I’m hope that lots of people make videos calling this out. Glenn could have made the point without being dishonest about it or creating a fallacy that amp doesn’t matter. He doesn’t respond to pushback well at all. Calling people stupid and pushing them aside definitely doesn’t do anything but make him look arrogant and ignorant. I don’t really think he’s either, but sometimes the condescending a-hole act from him is a too much.
@@MetalHeadProductionsYou missed the point Glenn was trying to make. The fact that you can get them to sound the same belies the fact that you don't need to spend money on multiple amps. Any amp with a variable EQ can be made to sound like many other amps on the same speakers, with a bit of effort. The point is that amps are a trivial component in creating the final tone of your guitar. The primary function of an amp is to make a weak signal into a signal that can be heard by the audience.
@@greevar I guess no one saw the video of the guy dissecting way different amps and basically at their core, I think it was title something like “…where does the amp sound come from…”…essentially a super scientific deep dive into…they all sound the same, the path of electronics and eq is to voice it in a particular manner…I always thought Recto was just a more bloated low end 5150…they all stole from Mike Soldano design anyway…he even said it and Dave Friedman sort of agreed…it’s basically the same amp with some extensive electronic disguises and pathways. All started at the same source so you can absolutely in fact make them all sound similar.
To be clear, to point of this video wasn't to dial in these amps to try and make them sound as close as possible, the point was to use them how they each sound best, it was to refute the claim that amps don't make significant tonal differences, which clearly they can.
I think they do. Not as much as changing the cab can. But yeah! Also changing the boost or overdrive one uses changes the tone. Not as much as a cab, about the same as changing the amp. Pickups also have a play. And for me the type of interface. Favorite is black lion audio.
I'm not in any camp.... But he even stated that he wanted to make both amps sound nearly identical using same cab. I did this myself many times when recording, not wanting a huge difference between the amps I recorded. To be honest, your tones are way too different, Mesa being scooped sounding, 5150 having plenty of mids.
@@OrangeMicMusic dual recs sound best scoped and 5150s are all about the midrange. Their mids are in a really different place so I wouldn't be able to get them sounding identical without some kind of post EQ. Now, the point Glenn makes for twenty minutes is that big tone shifts happen with the speaker, not the amp, and clearly I showed that's not the case. I really don't get why you're trying to ignore the entire video and what he bluntly said multiple times. Don't make excuses for his hyperbolic bs.
If you dial them properly, they will sound the same. So your test proves nothing. Glenn said they were dialed to sound similar. So if you can make them sound extremely close with just an EQ, why bother buying different amps?
Without wanting to be disrespectful, Glenn just likes to play the Shock Jock card a lot of the time, some people might find it funny and entertaining, but others might find it childish, and more importantly factually incorrect at times, I fall into the latter category, so I just choose not to watch his stuff.
It's funny because he has become a click bait whore and wonders why the numbers on his subs and his viewership differ so much, lol. That's the nature of clickbait. Get the views, but don't expect anyone to sub.
I discovered him during the pandemic and liked his content at the time but since then, he just gives off super childish, deliberately argumentative vibes and is just playing the shock jock card like you say. He's not really making meaningful content but instead, just trying to game the algorithm and coming across as a tool in the process
I see Glen's point, "with EQ and software you can make amp A sound like amp B". And I whole heartedly agree. Now that being said, he completely misrepresented the AMOUNT of altering that is required. He made it seem like this would be simple and anyone could do it in a minute or two. Thanks for showing the EQing graph.
Going off of what Glenn said, and also what Jim Lill uncovered in his video on amps, it's not that amps sound the same, it's that they *can* sound the same, or at least very similar, if dialed in a certain way. I appreciate that we have people like Glenn showing us that we're all up our own ass and we shouldn't care so much about gear and what the manufacturer tells us. I did a test last year about coil split humbuckers vs single coils because someone said they don't sound the same. In my test, they don't sound the same, but they all sound like single coils. Once I put them in a mix with no information about what guitars were actually being used, the ability to tell whether they were actual single coils or not went out the window. We gotta stop caring about getting specific pieces of gear and just make good music. 😅
I don’t know about amps that much, but my local music store has a marshal 4x12 1960. It’s magic, pure and simple. It makes every head plugged into sound amazing.
i don’t think glenn has ever said “every amp is the same” . he even mentions if you were to bring in a marshall there would be a significant difference . so who are you quoting ?
@@sexdigitaI I hadn’t seen the video by Glenn, only this one. I assumed it was the same as his “don’t change pickups, turn up the gain” argument, which is a very silly take. Pickups and amps often have vastly different EQ characteristics and respond to pedals, pushing and guitar volume/tone knobs very differently.
@@sexdigitaI seemed like a logical assumption based on the content of the video and the fact that that’s typically his argument-“this Harley Benton sounds the same as your ESP!” “This cheap pickup sounds the same as your (insert boutique pickup name here)!”
Oh nice, you did your own test... well what'dya know??? double confirmation. Thanks for doing this, I knew I wasn't crazy haha! You know what it is I think? When you mic up a cab with specific microphones it seems to NOT capture the ACTUAL tone / characteristics / and full spectrum of frequencies that you can hear in the room. It really does seem to filter a lot of it out and maybe that's why a dual rectifier and 5150 can both sound very very similar. I'm starting to wonder if there are better mics, maybe ribbon mic's that would do a much better job at recording how the amp actually sounds properly... because there is definitely a significant difference in tone between amps that gets picked up when using a direct input with an IR but it seems to get lost when you manually mic a cabinet especially with an sm57 for sure.
That would be another interesting test, actually (and could be done quite easily in the box). Use one of the plugins or IR sets that has a number of different microphone captures, and see how much the difference between amps is audible between different microphones.
Certain mics can really eliminate differences, like the tiny mics on cellphones for example, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I'm also frustrated at a lot of the comments denying Glenn said amps don't make big difference or they're upset I didn't try to dial them in to sound as close as possible, which misses the point, I'm just showing you can get big tone changes with just amps. I don't know why this so so hard for people.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yeah lots of commenters on my page claim I missed the point when it's them that don't get the point....I had to constantly point out the obvious. Back to my comment, I tried the same experiment with an sm57 and the differences were nowhere near as big compared to direct input and using IRs. Try it... That's why I wrote my previous lengthy comment. Maybe I'll make a video to demonstrate.
The one question i have, did you use a reamp box or did you play each riff multiple times? Im not on either side of this argument, but that does introduce another variable in tone.
Glenn’s channel is the only RUclips channel I’ve ever blocked from my algorithm. I got really tired of the bad info he was putting out there and feel like he’s not a reliable person to learn from. Glad that vids are shedding light on this cuz he’s misleading a lot of folks. Not everything he says is a falsehood, but he peppers enough of them in his content that it renders it worthless to me.
I gave up on watching Flicker's videos a while ago, after similar videos - such as claiming all pickups sound the same. I have collected over the years a bunch of different pickups - something I'm interested on - and they sound and feel very different, less so under high gain, but still different. I don't know what Glenn does with his videos to make they sound the same, but I have ears and there's a big difference by simply switching them on my own setup. I also get he wants to be a consumer advocate and get people to not obsess over expensive boutique pickups, but I nonetheless found those videos misleading at best.
i agree with you, i guess when you have a bit of experience and you have a sufficient level at guitar to truly understand the nuances you understand that. but i guess most of his viewers are intermediate level guitar players who dont have enough skills to really make the difference, and glenns videos where everything is tone matched ( even to some ridiculous extent) is not helping. a big part of wht he is not mentionning is the response and feeling of pickups and amps, sure it doesnt always comes through in the mix but 99.9% of the time when were playing guitar is not in a recording session so pleasure is more important if you know what i mean
It's crazy how different they sound given that they both come from SLO lineage. I've got a Mesa Trem-O-Verb right now. I've owned a few other variants in the past. I've owned a 6505, and played plenty of the other Peaveys, and Fender 5150s. While I can tweak a Recto to sound a lot more like a 5150: Orange channel, vintage mode, pull your highs all the way back, mids all the way up, back the bass to around 9-10 O'Clock, presence to taste, leave the channel volume high, and compensate with the master. That will get you in the ballpark. Every pot has a slightly different taper afterall. That being said, who would EVER think to EQ an amp like that unless they know the tone stack like that? Most people looking for heavy sounds with a Recto are going to use that signature Modern mode sound anyway. That's the sound everyone loves out of them. All that said, the reverse cannot be done. A 5150/6505 always sounds like itself. Even with the EQ in crazy places, it sounds like a 5150 variant. An angrier, gainier, less refined sounding little brother to it's Soldano relative. It's why myself and so many others love them.
Thanks for stepping up and doing your own testing, as one set of tests by one person does not constitute diffinitive findings. It's very important that bold claims are thoroughly and carefully examined. I've long thought that "EQ Matching" is one of the most amazing and powerful tools in audio.
I think he was right because even in your clip they sound pretty much the same just different equalization. And since there's a million different ways to change EQ around, it's kind of like saying a Ford F-150 is pretty much the same as a Chevy Silverado.
They really don't though, really different midranges. Might want to check out my followup video where I show the mid ranges of the amps are in entirely different places.
I actually have to agree.. I do own both amps and they do sound completely different from each other in my experience. I mean sometimes i can listen to a song and pin point that they were using rectifiers. Rectos has such a unique sound to them and in my experience its way different to my 5150/6505
From my own experience, you can use EQ to make most high gain amps pretty much all sound the same. Yes they do have variations in the frequencies that are adjusted by their built in EQ pots but using an EQ pedal you can adjust these amps to all pretty much have the same sound, especially if you are using the same guitar cab with the various amps you are tweaking. IDK if that is what Glenn did in his video since I haven't watched it (his vids are pretty annoying) but this would make sense. One thing the Rectifier amps do have that some others do not is the extended low end response. This can be sort of added to amps that do not have this with EQ in the effects loop but the Rectifiers have this built in which is handy for brutal death metal type tones.
The mid range and really everything about my rev g is different than any of my other amps. Point is though, amps demonstrably can have a big impact on the tone, which Glenn said they don't.
He's not hiding the fact that he tweaked the eq of the amp to make them match. What he's saying is the speaker is what will make your sound change the most, at least in a context of a mix, and people should consider looking for an other speaker instead of spending thousands of dollars in a new head. I would love having a Glenn's response on this one, should be interesting
I mean he spent 20 minutes saying the amps sound identical because they have the same speaker, but sure we can interpret what he "actually meant." Regardless, I did a followup video that shows the midranges of these amps are in entirely different places and also that the rev g is permanently scooped where the 6505/5150 has all.of it's midrange, you might find that interesting. It's linked in the pinned comment.
I did a followup video that I put in a pinned comment on why they sound different, and it comes down to their midranges are very different. The mid control on the 6505 affects 500-1k, which is already naturally scooped on the dual rec as it turns out, and the dual rec's mid control affects 250-500hz.
Great video and fully agree, i felt bad for Kaddy as he was singled out and made to look bad by Glenn and his large subscriber base, well out of order and almost bully like behaviour. Kaddy handled it well though and more of us so called dumb guitarists should back him up. Cheers! 👍🏻
@@strangelet4588 Glenn is so hellbent on only speakers changing the tone, and we never see his equipment in real time etc. I'm pretty sure he's lying and tweaks the gear to make the graph be either similar or different, depending on the narrative of the video.
@@olebrumme6356 Do you think Metalhead tried to get the two amps to match a tone he liked? Maybe he just dialed in two different tones and didn't even try to get them to sound similar. Maybe even pushed them further apart so the video would hit harder? Who knows. The point I got out of Glenns speaker rant, if you're looking for different tones is "try getting some used speakers and see if that can get you where you want to go" The tone shift IS quite massive. Another option is of course the much more costly decision of getting a different amp. Kyle Bull took it a step further and says "screw the hassle of speakers", just get a para EQ to tone shape. LambChopper is a tone guru for metal imo and uses this technique. If you have the money though, do both! I am lucky enough to have several nice amps, but I'd be lying if I said I couldn't get a tone from my Revv G20 close to my Slo30.
@@strangelet4588 Honestly we'd need a monitored experiment to get the truth, no edits. I like Kyle Bull, but I'm a minimalist myself. I just want to own one guitar, one amp, few pedals that give me the best experience and sound.
Harsh whistle at 4kHz... That's something I'm solving right now and it's driving me crazy. Is this on all high gain amps? Do pickups accentuate it? I sometimes read people talking about this but then I watch a video where someone puts only high pass and low pass on their guitars and there is none of that... Is the only solution parametric EQ pedal in effects loop?
I've seen a lot of Glenn's videos, and the guy surely enough is the voice of critical thinking. I do tend to believe in what he says based on what he shows us, like he does in the video in question, so I find it very refreshing to see that people actually challenge his claims the way he encourages people to do. I hope this doesn't end here, and that Glenn actually makes a proper response to this video, because it would appear that the both of you did carry out the test properly, and that leaves us with an interesting question of why the results differ so much. Maybe this could spark a collaboration of some sort between the two of you? I'd love to see that video 😃 Anyway, good work!
I am a guitar player but also have built amps. The issue with guitar players is that, like many artists, a lot is about how it "feels". Technically speaking the two amps in question are very very close designs. The major differences lie in the power amp and the pot tapers and values. In reality you CAN make them sound the same. Do they sound the same at the same settings - no. Additionally there's this thing that always gets ignored which is component tolerances. The components in ALL amps are not picked to make a precision instrument, it's not a sniper rifle. This is the reason why players expirience the "I played a jcm 800 before but this one particular one has the mojo!". And that's the truth, the whole truth and nothing bit the truth
just curious, did you CALIBRATE both Input/Output (Gain/Volume) of both Heads ? (with EQ defeated/bypassed/off ) the MESAs ive had have more low end ... ymmv i can see how - side by side - both amps CAN be dialed back to sound the same but then neither have "the sound" character we buy them for. from a sound engineers perspective , it should not matter; if it works for a musician to Perform , in the best interest of the Song - there is no problem. i think a Line6 Spider amp to drive the same Cabs was also mentionned as a future vid. - good luck dialing in a usable "Metal" tone with that tho.
They're level matched, gain isn't far off, but I didn't match the EQs, wasn't about that, just about showing you can get big differences with just amps. I'd never argue amps, cabs and mics aren't the most significant difference.
Thank you for this video! I own one Rev D, three Ref F, four Rev G, one 3 channels and two multiwatts and... all these Rectos sound DIFFERENT ! There is no one Recto sound, there are many. Glenn is right about the speakers, but he is wrong about the amp because his message comes from the mix engineer perspective, not from the guitar player for whom the amp is a source of inspiration. Changing the amp has an impact on the way you play. Never forget that golden rule : the audio chain is a chain. Every part of the chain (the sound of the room included), every change, has something to bring in the final tone. In the Glenn clip, the sound is muddy garbage piece of shit, I can't even recognize a Recto !!! Glenn Fricker is not Mike Fraser or Andy Sneap. He is just a youtuber...
When I heard him say that, I kind of laughed because i know he's trying to get the community to fire up. You can make the amps sound the same but that can only happen if you EQ the amps close as you can, do post processing, and boost the dual/triple rectifier and switch toe rectifier to modern mode. An unboosted dual or triple rectifier sounds a bit tubby or muddy while the 5150 is tight. Hell, even my quad cortex has both 5150 and dual rectifier captures and they sound way different
He tried to get out in front of digital amps sounding different, ironically saying they do stuff to the digital amps to make them sound different to sell them, which is prob true to a degree.
This isnt to challenge your results, as they line up with what many would expect (the sound each amp is known for) but did you try to use the amp eq to get them as close as possible, id think you should be able to get them matched up a little more, not identical but close. Ive found the main difference in tube amps tends to be the eq, so simply adding an eq pedal or in post can make most amps match up almost identically, even if theres some fairly large differences in design. In that case, it doesnt make sense to buy an extra tube head for what amounts to eq.
The point wasn't to try to EQ them as close as possible. I still can get them super close without an outside EQ because of the midrange differences between them, but Glenn said over and over that big tone differences don't come from amps, they come from the speaker. I agreed the biggest difference was the speaker, even said to try different cabs and speakers before buying a bunch of amps, but this video shows you can get big tonal differences with just amps as well.
You run the presence pretty low and mids pretty high on the 6505. how much time did you actually spend on using the amp controls to get them as close as possible? My guess is, that you could make the 6505 sound much closer to the rectifier, but you probably couldn’t achieve the sound you dialed in on the 6505 with the rectifier. In my experience amps do matter, but you can get most pretty close to each other
I don't run them as close as possible, I run them sounding best. Their mid ranges are in very different places. The mids in the rev g are lower, around 750-500hz and and the 6505 is higher up and more nasal. Regardless, that shouldn't matter right, if it's all the speaker? His whole point was you don't get big tonal shifts with different amps, you get them with the speaker and I have demonstrated you can indeed get big tone differences with just the amo. My rev g sounds nothing like any of my other amps, and I can't get any of them sounding like it without some big EQ moves in post. With how perfectly identical Glenn's amps sounded, there is something up.
@@MetalHeadProductions Well his point is use the eq on the amp before spending thousands of dollars. And I think he has a point to a degree. I think if the eq curves allows for it, it is fair game. No matter what you consider „big EQ moves“. For example check out how Josh Middleton dials in his 6505. mids almost off and it sounds much more in the ballpark than you make it seem here. For some people that approximation might be good enough. I personally don’t buy a 6505 to make it sound like a rectifier and prefer a tone much closer to what you dialed in. But before you spend 2k on a rev g maybe try using the eq to match it as closely as you can. (If you are only after one rhythm sound you like, that is. Of course the amps differ in many other ways which might warrant a purchase)
@@Patrick-rf7vx no his point was literally that big tone shifts don't come from Amos. He stays several times in the video, and I was able to show you absolutely can get big tonal shifts with amps. Honestly Glenn couldn't have been more clearly, why with trying to shift goal posts. The 6505 sounds good with the mids around 6 and the dual rec is better a bit scooped because it's midrange is in that wooden, horrible sounding area around 500-750hz, which again is beside the point, which is that you can absolutely get significant tonal changes with just amps.
@@MetalHeadProductions I would never guessed that some day I will have to defend Glenn, but at 12:00 minutes in the video he EXACTLY touches on this point. I think he could have made that portion a lot bigger part of the video, but you are wrong here. Some amps just have different designs/and or values for the pots. I think you are being intellectually lazy if you don't consider this and try to compensate for that with the controls (that are there to be used!!!). For Example: The presence of my revv generator red channel sounds at 5 exactly like a 6505's presence at 8. I don't go around and say that the 6505 is much darker just because it is when set both to 5. That would be stupid. Sorry to be that harsh, but you are being lazy.
@@Patrick-rf7vx cool so you're going to quote mine he and I to try and make a video where he calls guitarists dumb for thinking the amp can make a difference to the tone stupid, talked about when he got a framus cobra it sounded like his other amps, and had a thumbnail of the two amps on the trash on fire, that video wasn't actually about what glen said it was all because you say so.
Is it not the case that the Dual Rec was somewhat of a takeoff from (or Mesa's answer to) the 5150/SLO style sound that was around at the time? I have very little experience with 6505 and Dual Rec amps, and zero experience with Soldanos or the original Peavey 5150's (although I've played through the EVH 5150's). As far as I can remember with the Dual Rec, they have that somewhat similar "sag" that the 5150/6505 amps are known for. That being said, the Dual Rec still has that distinct Mesa tone and is a bit drier sounding than the 6505/5150. This is as much of a feel thing as it is a sound thing. Just my 2 cents. I find this an interesting topic of discussion.
Each of them had their own little changes. The midranges are pretty different on the two amps. Dual rec is more difficult to deal with but it's less compressed and has a different feel for sure.
@MetalHeadProductions I've got a Mesa Mark V which I know are incredibly mid-heavy. Are Dual Rectfifiers similar in that way as well? Meaning, you'd need to "scoop" the mids to make it less harsh sounding? I remember playing a 50W EVH 5150 through a 2x12 cabinet, and it was incredibly easy to dial in. I find the challenge with the Mark V amps is to find the point at which there's just enough mid-range to cut the air, but not so much that it causes the ears to fatigue quickly. And improperly EQ'd Mesa Boogie is almost painful to listen to LOLOL.
Could you repeat the experiment by tone matching (amp eq) one to sound as close as possible to the other? I am not doubting you and I am not doubting Glenn, or to put it better I am doubting all of you because I have not done the experiment myself but if by just turning a few knobs they are really that close that would prove Glenn's point, which is that you don't need another amp. I don't mean to come off as a smart-ass, I am just curious as to where the truth lies. Probably somewhere in the middle.
Why? That's not the point. The point was to show you can get big tonal differences between amps only with everything else the same, which Glenn said you couldn't. I have the amps set where I like them and without some post EQ I can't make them sound identical anyways. I don't know why people are so hung up on wanting me to try to match the tones on the amp, that's missing the entire point, I'm just calling out Glenn's misleading hyperbole.
@@MetalHeadProductions because that was Glenn’s point. Don’t spend money on a new amp or new valves, spend them on speakers, you can approximate the rest. At least that was his point last year, I can’t say I am a very regular viewer of his.
@@MetalHeadProductions The way I see it, if you match Glenn's results, we know for sure he tweaked the hell out of the amps to make them sound as close as possible. Probably more bs from his channel that you can debunk too.
Good video. Sadly Glenn is totally missing the point of making each amp sound it's best on it's own and THEN comparing them, instead of making them sound similar. Yes, if you try to make things sound similar, they sound similar, duh. What a revelation. You don't buy an amp to make it sound like another amp. That's what a mental rock would do.
Even still, I did a followup video on this and showed the midranges for these amps are in entirely different places, the dual rec's is much lower which is why it sounds better scooped because it's getting rid of that muddy frequencies and the 6505 has the mids much higher which is why the amp cuts in a mix so well and sounds better with the mids boosted. I can't get them to sound as identical as he did without post EQ which I suspect, but can't prove he did.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yes, that and: some of the best producers/engineers out there quad track rhythm guitars with different amps. If they'd sound THE SAME ... that would make no sense. If quadtracking with 2 different amps is fair game, because the amps sound different enough to alter the result, they sound different enough on their own.
great vid !! i really love both of your guys channels and think you both did an awesome job !! i think it’s also worth mentioning Fluff compared a Dual Rec to a 5150 iii (EL34??) and the results he got were also very very similar however his comparison wasn’t as thorough. but that said i think the both of you make great points !!
I don't disagree at all you can get amps to sound very similar. Never argued that, and I even say I'm this video to focus on speaker and cabs before buying a bunch of amps. I was just saying it's misleading to say you don't get big differences with different amps, just speakers/mics. Clearly you can get different results. That's all.
Got tricked for a moment by the caption in thinking I was clicking on a GF video, but then was pleasantly treated to a more tuneful voiceover. Easier to enjoy and appreciate the great variety in amp tones when not being yelled at.
I'm fairly convinced at this point that he's a classic case of "I SPEAK REALLY LOUD AND BRASH SO I MUST BE HONEST!!!!! (though I'm actually lying half the time)" and I lost patience for him 343768672 ridiculous takes ago ("you can't mix on headphones" and "you're an idiot if you buy an Axe FX instead of a Marshall" were my breaking point). Also, even if he somehow got the two amps to sound this close (REALLY doubt it), that means nothing because there is a slight overlap, but also lots of things each amp can do that the other can't. Pretty sure you can get most "metal" amps to approximate some mid-gain setting on a Fender, but yeah that's about where the similarities end.
Mesa, lot boxier and muddier. Obviously more bass frequency. 6505, more bite and brilliance. I think GF’s videos have more of a postproduction approach, when a lot of adjustments have been done after miccing and mixing, obviously giving the impression that everything is a lot flatter and more lineal. In my experience amps differ dramatically before they are mixed and mastered. Of course compressing and limiting to death will make everything sound the same
I can't believe much of what Glen says. I'll leave it there and watch actual informative stuff like this instead. People need to stop fixating on "what makes the most difference" in a chain where every component matters to some extent. Figuring out how each component of a chain effects each other is a useful skill and encourages people to experiment. Good video.
It would be cool to do an experiment where you dial in a tone you like on one amp, then try to recreate the same tone in the other by modifying setings. I imagine that some sounds could be achieved with both amps while others sounds would have a much greater difference.
I get Glenn's point about amps being able to sound alike. But that also negates the fact that not everyone wants their amp to sound the way he dialed them in to get that result.
Well if that was just his point I would have left it alone, but I felt like there was some EQ behind the scenes to get the amps so identical, can't prove it, just seems like it, and he said what was making the amps sound identical was the speaker and that big tone differences come from the speaker not the amp. I showed you can get big differences from the amp to illustrate he's being hyperbolic and dishonest. I added with him with how significant and important speakers, mics and cabs are.
@@MetalHeadProductions I think he said he dialed them in to be as close as possible and I assumed he meant using the EQ on the amps themselves… but to be honest, it wasn’t my favorite tone for either amp. Definitely not one I would want to use in a mix. He may have done something in post, but that isn’t provable like you say. The advantage of having a different amp and circuit to create gain is that they will have different tolerances, ranges and responses. Can you make them sound alike, possibly, but likely at the expense of their optimal tone. The speaker is the ultimate equalizer, but it has to respond to the frequencies being pushed into it. It might be interesting to try in a real world setting if you can get both amps to sound alike using amp EQ only, and what you would have to do to accomplish that.
@@BaritoneGoatStudio the 6505 sound good setup in ways the dual rec doesn't, and vise versa, that's why it's good to have other amps. Also how they take pedals and whatnot. I just don't like the hyperbolic misinformation.
I find a lot of Glenn's stuff to be very factually accurate, but I also find that his attempt to be a shock jock and be childish can lead him to parking himself on the corner of WRONG street and FAFO avenue with his foot knee deep in his mouth from time to time. It's why I refuse to get all my guitar and recording info from a single source, because Glenn is just like everyone else - human, and not entirely infallible. He's not immune to getting caught in public stroking his ego to completion, or just being plain wrong. I treat every source of every information this way, from news to computer and music gear reviews.
I unsubbed from his channel a long time ago. These are two different amps and they have always had different characteristics. The fact that he even said that pickups have nearly nothing to do with tone makes me suspicious.
I didn't pay attention to what Glenn's test parameters are. I also would have preferred if your test was through a physical speaker and microphone, but that's just because I've been doing this for ages, but I also didn't check all your test parameters. I really haven't had to do much "amp shootout" in my career. Whatever the guitar player(s) bring in(typically to the stage), that's what we use as we don't have time to go do the A/B compare game during a sound check. I think you're bringing up a very interesting and valid point, which aligns a bit more how I have approached this issue: The guitar player has selected each bit of gear, that when combined together, is able to produce the "sound" they are looking to project/present. With that in mind, not bit of gear in the signal chain is unimportant. If your test was "everything on the amp set to flat" before driving the iR, then it proves your point: the amps themselves do not sound the same, at least in a zero'd configuration. The fact that they can be made to sound the same is a different argument.
after i saw his video "guitars dont matter" i was already sure that he is going to push the agenda that nothing makes big changes, just change speakers to the point where he will be saying that boss mt2 into poweramp sounds same like vht pitbull, because it is the cab that makes the difference :D the dude is just a joke and does clickbait stuff all the time nowadays
Just because certain amps can be dialed in in a similar way doesn't mean that's the way you would dial these in like that. It'll probably not be the way you want a certain amp to sound, I guess. Maybe you want a certain sound/feel out of an amp because that's the way that amp sounds best (to you). Then there's also the sound in the room, the feel of an amp, not everyone is just focussing on recording, which Glenn really does, that's his thing, I get it. So yeah, I'd still love a Dual Rectifier (or Badlander, who knows, at least when these are available again in the EU, which, apparently, should be soon) and 5150 type/variant. Let's keep this fun for everyone, shall we? ;)
Obviously Glen is wrong. Both amps sound very different. We all agree that the cab and the speaker has the most impact but that doesnt mean that the amp doesnt play a role.
It goes back to what Glenn mentioned. Knobs change things - if you can make them sound almost identical by simpmy turning knobs what else needs to be explained? The 5150/6505 and dual rect are based off the SLO 100 - different enough to dodge a lawsuit. The irony of tone policing a video about tone. Love it.
The family of amps that we know as the 5150 and Dual Recto were released starting in 1992. Rectos have (and still are) more expensive then 5150's. If Glen's statement was even remotely true, then why would anyone have bothered buying a Recto?
BTW, thanks for making a video where a civil discussion could be had about this topic. I am, and have been, completely over Frickers "rage over everything". approach for some time now. There is no need to be a sh!thead when discussing guitar amps, thanks for being a calm professional. I hope things are better in your world.
For sure, and I also did a follow-up video showing the two amps have really different midranges which is why they sound different even with the same speaker. I pinned that video in the comments.
I think Glenn is good at showing that we are probably overly focusing on certain details rather than the big picture. (good song writing, speakers and cabinets ect...) However, I do agree with you here, that these do not sound extremely similar. Can they both overlap and do a lot of the same things? Sure. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you are looking for the details that make that last 5-10% difference, I think a lot of things Glenn writes off as useless (amps and pickups in particular) have a place.
Glenn must have reached the end of the outrage he could generate dunking on Gibson and decided to move on to something else. I don't click on his videos with clickbait titles.
You can sit around and mangle amps to sound however you want, that's not really how people go about jamming, writing, or making a record. They use the sounds they like!
I think Glen is addicted to being to having controversial guitar related opinions because it gives his channel a lot of extra attention and allows him and his audience to act smarmy. Also sometimes I wonder if he just has the world most colored signal chain. I've used some IRs that almost have no transparency to the sound.
No his point was the only thing that matters is the speaker and if you want big tonal changes, that's done by the speakers, which clearly you can get big differences with Amos as well. It's also worth saying I can't get my 6505 to sound identical to my rev g without big eq changes in post. Entirely different mid ranges, to put it mildly,.
@@MetalHeadProductions he says at the end about how people say hes a terrible studio engineer but at the same time ppl are complaining that he manipulated the the two amps to sound alike which would require some level of knowledge as a studio engineer so he was just trying to flex on everyone so basically by making this video you just proving that he actually a good studio engineer
@@Durkhead lol, what? I showed how little effort it takes to tone match something with the fabfilter. You're really reaching, man. Glenn said amps don't make a significant tonal difference, just the speakers do that, and I showed the amps can make a significant difference, as did kaddy.
I'd say how you set it up has a bit to do with it as well. No dog in this fight but on the kemper the Dual can sound super close tot he 5150 and have interchanged them as well. If nothing else this certainly alows for more discussion and actual testing being done so a great response back to him
Profilers and modelers can't really be factored though because those are not real life. No company is going to make a modeling unit where every high gain amp you can cycle through sounds the same. That would be terrible for business. As far as profilers, there are so many factors that go into profiling an amp that you can't really trust that either. This debate is exclusively regarding real amps.
That is your opinion, profilers and modlerres can so close, and most people use IR's these days there is still some factor they can play a part of regardless if you think not
@@travisspaulding2222 Also "No company is going to make a modeling unit where every high gain amp you can cycle through sounds the same. That would be terrible for business." A Dual and 5150 can be diale din to sound the same too, so can profilers and moddleeres how does that make them so different and not a factor then?
@@suffersystemstudiosPlease understand the difference between having the ability to make them sound the same and having the ability to make them sound different. If you hit anything with enough gain, the distortion and the compression will reduce any kind of differences the amp may have. That is why most high gain players don't turn the gain up that high. Most of us keep the gain as low as necessary to achieve the chugs we need without sacrificing articulation. Profiles are the worst to compare because you still need to either mic the cab or use an IR to get the capture. Profiles don't just magically download an amp's tone from the amp itself. It captures the amp, the speaker, the mic placement, etc. That's why they aren't valid. The debate isn't about modelers or profiles. This debate is about real amps.
In the world of science research, the common practice with publishing a paper on a discovery, the exact methods used by the lab are included. I think Glenn should probably show his exact process and let others try to duplicate his results. I'm not a super hi gain amp sort of person but I'd assume that Glenn probably tried to make those amps sound the same as opposed to just dialing in the tone that the amp inspires or delivers most easily. Your Mesa was very fizzy compared to the more boxy peavy. Those sounds would definitely lead one to believe the amps are massively different. I would guess there's a technique to A/B them and dial in more similar tones but the controls might be wildly different.
Let me play devils advocate. Those two amps do sound pretty close. The distortion has a very simular structure... It's not like the difference between an hm2 and ds1. That said his statement would mean all amps sound similar. Orange vs marshall vs slo clones vs fenders these amps are very different. My katana can sound like many things and to that arguments yes amps can sound alike but only if the amp has the ability to hit certain levels of saturation and has the ability to tone match. Using an eq after doesn't count IMHO.
Glen is annoying. Can’t stand his videos. Probably wouldn’t like him as a person either. I don’t find any value in his videos. Yours are cool though. I watch them from time to time.
Everything in the signal chain makes a difference, heck even the instrument cable does. Yea, the speaker is a huge part but amp makes a huge difference too, some amps sound like shit. For these saturated metal tones the amp makes a lesser difference than lower gain amps, but it still makes a difference. I really don’t understand why this is supposed to be an issue. I’ve had people bring shitty amps to my studio, if I can’t get a good tone out of it I offer them to use my gear. Yea not all amps sound the same.
You can look up charts on the voicings of different amps and where to set the tone knobs to basically bypass the tone stacks in the amp. Yes, different EQ changes the sound, but the base circuitry in the 2 amps is near identical. If you have a moment, take a peak at Jim Lil's video on where the tone comes from in an amp.
I've seen Jim's video and it's great. Not the point here, Glenn said big tone changes happen with the speaker, even went out of his way to say a fraud cobra sounded basically the same as his other amps. I wanted to show Glenn was being misleading and that Amos can have a big impact on tone.
@@MetalHeadProductions , but the point that the main difference between the amps is where the EQ frequency occurs for the tone knobs. (And also where the compression occurs) Both basically have a fender design power section. And mostly similar preamp circuits, just with different capacitance. But even with a significantly different preamp section like a Mark Tremonti signature amp, the distortion caused by preamp tube compression will sound like tube compression/distortion. From there, it's just flavors. But if someone starts to say that a boss DS2 sounds like a dual rec, then we'll know they are off their rocker.
I think the problem with Glenn's video is he is using super low tuned guitars, which is going to make it harder to find a difference between amps. Glenn does have valid points about speakers, but amps, tonewood, speakers, playing style, all add up.
So in general, every amp sounds different doesn't matter if its a real amp or an amp sim, they all sound different. So you guys are right about that and glenn is wrong in that category.
Something I just thought about that someone either trying to make or refute this claim can do. All the knobs on the 5150 are big arrows that make it plain as day where the settings are just by looking, whereas the dual rec just has blank, circular knobs. If you were to say "i put all the knobs at 12'o clock", with both amps in the shot in the video, we'd clearly see that's the case with the 5150, but we'd be none the wiser if you happened to change any of the knobs on the dual rec. Invalidating any claim either in favor or against
I didn't set these the same and say I did though, and neither did glenn. The bass and treble were the same, but the midrange controls control different frequencies. 6505 sounds better pushing the mids a bit so the mids were just past noon and the dual rec mid control sounds better just below noon because it's midrange controls the lower mids which don't sound very good. I did match the settings in a followup video I did where I sweep the mid controls for both Amos so you can see they're in entirely different places. It's linked in the pinned comment. On and you missed the point, it wasn't to make the amps sound the same, just to show you could get big tone differences between two amps.
Please set both amps at noon- which is supposed to be the sweet spot for most high gain amps. In the screen capture, it looked like the knobs on both amps are set to your taste, not noon for both heads. Also, the point of the video was to save people money. Shows that speakers are very important. Often more important than the amp itself. I’ve run a jet city, old Carvin and a b-52, and at gain, with the same guitar, they were all kind of the same, if i set up the tone, pedals, and gain stages the same. But change a Randall cab to a Marshall cab, a slant from a bottom, and I’ll see a huge different in tone. As to his tips on recording, I’ve been following him since 2017. In the past year and a half, I’ve taken mixing much more serious, and his tips, his review livestreams, and advice have taken my mixes to a night and day difference. So, i feel he’s doing something right. Is his persona a bit over the top? Yeah, but like most things on the internet, it’s theater. High praise for your video. I’d just like to have seen both heads at noon all the way across. And a mic’ed cab, rather than IR. Because the mic also plays a part….
Who said that's supposed to be the sweet spot for high gain amps? It's not and it's where either of these amps sound best, especially the dual rec. That mid range will start sounding awful. This wasn't about setting them the same, it was about showing you can get large tonal changes with just the amp. I agreed with Glenn that the speakers make the biggest difference, I just didn't like he was misleading people that amps can't make a big difference as well.
@@MetalHeadProductions 100% agree. This is especially true for most Bogner amps. They use audio (logarithmic) taper pots so noon will specifically sound different versus a linear taper pot amp. This is why Bogners get the misconception of being "darker" amps because you need to set the treble to around 6-8/10 to be equivalent to a Marshall amp at noon.
Finally, people start to expose Glenn for the fraud he is. I sold off most of my amps because I have a QC now, but I've been playing guitar since 1989, so experience has shown me that what Glenn is saying is misleading. He sells IRs and he obviously has a relationship with Thomann because he can't get through a video without pushing their cabs. Since I sold most of my amps, I can't do a comparison, but I know he's full of shit. He isn't trying to save people money. He's trying to funnel it through himself. Which is fine if he was being honest.
Let´s have Plague Schyte Studios do this test - AND react to both videos - and see and hear what he comes up with. After 40 years of twiddling knobs my experience is that with a sufficiently precise multiband actually fully parametric eq with a q function narrow enough you can have just about anything sound like anything else, so I think Glenn´s point is valid. Mostly people just want bias confirmation. Gives them such a warm fuzzy feeling inside,- and for that they are willing to throw A LOT of good money into it.
Both of these amps are relatively similar up until the fourth gain stage. After that, they're completely different as far as the 5150/6505 having two additional gain stages, different power supply topology, completely different fx loops and the power amps have some differences that all impact the tone. I've played and even built clones of both amps and as far as my experiences, I could never get a Recto circuit to come close to the saturation of the 5150. I'm starting to think that Glenn gets paid by the big speaker companies to push the speaker= tone myth. Throw a TS-9 in front of two amps and rely on compression and studio processing and of course they'll sound similar
I did a follow up video that show the mid ranges of both amps are in entirely different places, the recto is much lower which is why those amps usually sound better scooped, and the 6505 is much higher which is why it cuts in a mix better and some people describe it as being nasal sounding. Idk what he did to make them sound that close but I really do feel it must have taken post EQ to do it.
@@MetalHeadProductions yes, 100% on the mid notch difference between the two. Most of that tonal difference is actually from the different fx loops used and the two additional stages in the 5150. The loops in both amps color and voice the tone a bit. 5150's loop is designed to emphasize more harmonics and high mids in a relatively clean manner with less bass and relys on the depth control in the Power amp to compensate the lack of bass, while the rectifier loop adds more low mid distortion and a thicker sound. I've noted that the NFB resistors play a part too. With a 39k in the 5150 and a 47k in the recs (vintage mode only. NFB is completely disconnected in modern mode). I added an NFB switch to one of my 5150ish builds to go from the stock 39k to 47k and it's amazing the difference it makes in the way the amp reacts with the speakers. If Glenn wanted to be truly helpful he should talk about how a variable NFB control on the back of any amp impacts the tone, regardless of the speaker used.
I think the 6505 and Rectifier are probably the worst options to try to suggest that amps sound different being that their preamp topology is both based on the SLO. Like maybe a Fryette Pittbull vs an Orange Rockerverb. Or an SLO vs a Mark IV. Glenn is also a fantastic moron.
Here is a brief follow-up to this video. just wanted to show that the midrange controls effect different frequencies. The 6505 midrange control adjusts around 500hz-1k, while the rev G dual rec is more scooped in that same range, and the mid control on the rev G is around 250-500hz. I think this more than anything is why the two amps usually sound different from each other and thought this information might be interesting to some people.
ruclips.net/video/xFXR8lB3gpM/видео.html&ab_channel=MetalheadProductions
Good job. Yeah, I've played both amps quite a bit. The amount I had to push the dual rectifier to get the gain in the same ball park as a 5150 on like 3 was ridiculous. Even just the gain character of both amps was a bit different, with the dual rec being so much drier. This was also a mid 2000's rev (G I think?)
Thanks, man. I just wanted to show that Amos can make a big tone difference in there own, you know. Don't need people thinking every amp sounds the same with the same speaker, although I did go out of my way to same the biggest impact to tone is the speaker, cab and mics, would never argue against that.
Just to note, Glenn did address this in his video. He does admit that he dialed them in to be as close as possible, and the point of doing that in his words was to show that if one amp can be dialed in to sound nearly identical to the other (especially in a full mix context), then why buy both of them? Hence I believe he was attempting to show how one does not need to buy a ton of different amps based around the same base circuit, instead buy 1 and you can dial it in as you need, and then use speakers / cabs / mics to alter it even futher.
There it is.
this guy gets it.
This is the lesson people need to learn from Glenn's videos.
Precisely dude!
Yea bro took away the wrong lesson from glens video.
Glenn did a followup video where he was a lot less over the top and inflammatory where he addresses the backlash to his video and explained that he does think amps can make a difference in tone, mentions he beta lead sounding different from a 5150, and that all he was trying to do was push the importance of speakers and mic placement, which is did agree were the most important in this video.
While I appreciate his clarification and that he rocked down his persona to make it, perhaps in future if he doesn't want to be misunderstood he should be so hyperbolic and insulting, and he probably shouldn't make statements like, "it's not the amp, dumb@$s!" Or say that guitarists saying they hear the differences between their amps are just trying to cope with buying a whole bunch of amps. Those things taken literally are why there was this strong reaction to begin with.
I have both a Tri Rec and a 5150. The key point is that they can be tweaked to sound quite similar, which is true. The emphasis wasn't on them being similar on any setting, but rather on the fact that they can be dialed in to sound very close and still be usable. However, the settings at which they would sound similar aren't necessarily the sweet spot for either amp. It appears that you didn't make an effort to match the tones; instead, you simply highlighted the strengths of each amp. The implication wasn't that a scooped Mesa sounds identical to a tight Peavey. Just that you can dial these amps to sound similar. Which you absolutely can.
Yes, I agree. I think the point is you wouldn't need to buy a 5150 and a Dual Rec for different flavors. You could save your money and tweak either EQ to sound like the other.
I’m glad people are making videos like these. I wanted to do this, but I don’t own a rectifier anymore, only a 6505+ and a 5150. But I’ve worked with rectifiers plenty and they sound very different from a 6505 or 5150. I can get them to sound very close with major eq moves, but the amps inherent qualities are pretty different. I get the point Glenn was trying to make, speaker placement really does matter more than the amp in my experience, but I was left scratching my head wondering if he really did switch the amp at all in those clips. Even when watching the video, I thought that quip was really out of place and uncalled for. Like he snapped for an amicable disagreement. Idk, Glenn is a smart guy, I’ve learned quite a bit from his channel over the years, but seems like there are certain things you just can’t tell him anything about.
I agree with how important the speaker is too, I just don't like that he made it out like amps don't make big tonal change. He went out of his way to mislead people and threw insults all over the place while doing it. I wasn't down for that.
@@MetalHeadProductions 💯 yeah, completely agree. I’m hope that lots of people make videos calling this out. Glenn could have made the point without being dishonest about it or creating a fallacy that amp doesn’t matter. He doesn’t respond to pushback well at all. Calling people stupid and pushing them aside definitely doesn’t do anything but make him look arrogant and ignorant. I don’t really think he’s either, but sometimes the condescending a-hole act from him is a too much.
@@MetalHeadProductionsYou missed the point Glenn was trying to make. The fact that you can get them to sound the same belies the fact that you don't need to spend money on multiple amps. Any amp with a variable EQ can be made to sound like many other amps on the same speakers, with a bit of effort. The point is that amps are a trivial component in creating the final tone of your guitar. The primary function of an amp is to make a weak signal into a signal that can be heard by the audience.
@@greevar I guess no one saw the video of the guy dissecting way different amps and basically at their core, I think it was title something like “…where does the amp sound come from…”…essentially a super scientific deep dive into…they all sound the same, the path of electronics and eq is to voice it in a particular manner…I always thought Recto was just a more bloated low end 5150…they all stole from Mike Soldano design anyway…he even said it and Dave Friedman sort of agreed…it’s basically the same amp with some extensive electronic disguises and pathways. All started at the same source so you can absolutely in fact make them all sound similar.
I think it’s cool that amps can be tweaked to sound really similar.
But it also makes sense that they’d be able to do their own kind of sound.
To be clear, to point of this video wasn't to dial in these amps to try and make them sound as close as possible, the point was to use them how they each sound best, it was to refute the claim that amps don't make significant tonal differences, which clearly they can.
I think they do. Not as much as changing the cab can. But yeah! Also changing the boost or overdrive one uses changes the tone. Not as much as a cab, about the same as changing the amp. Pickups also have a play. And for me the type of interface. Favorite is black lion audio.
I have a loot of amps and preamps and my results are the same that your results.
I'm not in any camp....
But he even stated that he wanted to make both amps sound nearly identical using same cab. I did this myself many times when recording, not wanting a huge difference between the amps I recorded. To be honest, your tones are way too different, Mesa being scooped sounding, 5150 having plenty of mids.
@@OrangeMicMusic dual recs sound best scoped and 5150s are all about the midrange. Their mids are in a really different place so I wouldn't be able to get them sounding identical without some kind of post EQ.
Now, the point Glenn makes for twenty minutes is that big tone shifts happen with the speaker, not the amp, and clearly I showed that's not the case. I really don't get why you're trying to ignore the entire video and what he bluntly said multiple times. Don't make excuses for his hyperbolic bs.
If you dial them properly, they will sound the same.
So your test proves nothing.
Glenn said they were dialed to sound similar.
So if you can make them sound extremely close with just an EQ, why bother buying different amps?
Without wanting to be disrespectful, Glenn just likes to play the Shock Jock card a lot of the time, some people might find it funny and entertaining, but others might find it childish, and more importantly factually incorrect at times, I fall into the latter category, so I just choose not to watch his stuff.
totally agree.
It's funny because he has become a click bait whore and wonders why the numbers on his subs and his viewership differ so much, lol. That's the nature of clickbait. Get the views, but don't expect anyone to sub.
Yeah I don’t watch him either. He’s too shrill, hyper and generally annoying. Seems like a nice guy though. Respectfully…
I discovered him during the pandemic and liked his content at the time but since then, he just gives off super childish, deliberately argumentative vibes and is just playing the shock jock card like you say. He's not really making meaningful content but instead, just trying to game the algorithm and coming across as a tool in the process
He talks a big game but really hasn't done anything note worthy as a producer or musician. Respectfully
I see Glen's point, "with EQ and software you can make amp A sound like amp B". And I whole heartedly agree. Now that being said, he completely misrepresented the AMOUNT of altering that is required. He made it seem like this would be simple and anyone could do it in a minute or two. Thanks for showing the EQing graph.
Going off of what Glenn said, and also what Jim Lill uncovered in his video on amps, it's not that amps sound the same, it's that they *can* sound the same, or at least very similar, if dialed in a certain way. I appreciate that we have people like Glenn showing us that we're all up our own ass and we shouldn't care so much about gear and what the manufacturer tells us. I did a test last year about coil split humbuckers vs single coils because someone said they don't sound the same. In my test, they don't sound the same, but they all sound like single coils. Once I put them in a mix with no information about what guitars were actually being used, the ability to tell whether they were actual single coils or not went out the window. We gotta stop caring about getting specific pieces of gear and just make good music. 😅
Tubes change the tone to. I dont care what anyone says. I can hear and feel it. Yes speakers are important to
I don’t know about amps that much, but my local music store has a marshal 4x12 1960. It’s magic, pure and simple. It makes every head plugged into sound amazing.
Glenn is also a 🫏
Killer! Speakers and cabs are the most important, sounds like you found something that really works for you. Definitely snag that.
Hm, yes-let’s put a Matamp GT120 against an Engl Fireball and see how long that ”every amp is the same” theory holds up
i don’t think glenn has ever said “every amp is the same” . he even mentions if you were to bring in a marshall there would be a significant difference . so who are you quoting ?
@@sexdigitaI I hadn’t seen the video by Glenn, only this one. I assumed it was the same as his “don’t change pickups, turn up the gain” argument, which is a very silly take. Pickups and amps often have vastly different EQ characteristics and respond to pedals, pushing and guitar volume/tone knobs very differently.
@@dustincleary8161 gotta love when people don’t even watch the video and assume !
@@sexdigitaI seemed like a logical assumption based on the content of the video and the fact that that’s typically his argument-“this Harley Benton sounds the same as your ESP!” “This cheap pickup sounds the same as your (insert boutique pickup name here)!”
@@sexdigitaI Exactly. You have so many people missing the point. Just flew right over their heads.
Oh nice, you did your own test... well what'dya know??? double confirmation. Thanks for doing this, I knew I wasn't crazy haha! You know what it is I think? When you mic up a cab with specific microphones it seems to NOT capture the ACTUAL tone / characteristics / and full spectrum of frequencies that you can hear in the room. It really does seem to filter a lot of it out and maybe that's why a dual rectifier and 5150 can both sound very very similar. I'm starting to wonder if there are better mics, maybe ribbon mic's that would do a much better job at recording how the amp actually sounds properly... because there is definitely a significant difference in tone between amps that gets picked up when using a direct input with an IR but it seems to get lost when you manually mic a cabinet especially with an sm57 for sure.
That would be another interesting test, actually (and could be done quite easily in the box). Use one of the plugins or IR sets that has a number of different microphone captures, and see how much the difference between amps is audible between different microphones.
Certain mics can really eliminate differences, like the tiny mics on cellphones for example, but I don't think that's what's going on here.
I'm also frustrated at a lot of the comments denying Glenn said amps don't make big difference or they're upset I didn't try to dial them in to sound as close as possible, which misses the point, I'm just showing you can get big tone changes with just amps. I don't know why this so so hard for people.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yeah lots of commenters on my page claim I missed the point when it's them that don't get the point....I had to constantly point out the obvious. Back to my comment, I tried the same experiment with an sm57 and the differences were nowhere near as big compared to direct input and using IRs. Try it... That's why I wrote my previous lengthy comment. Maybe I'll make a video to demonstrate.
Thanks for taking the time to do this video 🔥💪🔥
Finally people are pointing out Glenn’s Dogma. He will talk about things being bad such as amp modeling and “fake” drums right up he is selling them…
That did bother me, he talked trash about drum samples for years then sold his own and said they were better. never liked that.
@@MetalHeadProductionsNow that he is selling IRs, it seems like there's a pattern.
@@travisspaulding2222oh jeez, his free IR is the worst sounding IR I've heard. I can't imagine HIM selling IRs now....
The one question i have, did you use a reamp box or did you play each riff multiple times? Im not on either side of this argument, but that does introduce another variable in tone.
Just played each part, don't have a preamp box, but it's not going to cause any kind of noticable tone shift here.
Glenn’s channel is the only RUclips channel I’ve ever blocked from my algorithm. I got really tired of the bad info he was putting out there and feel like he’s not a reliable person to learn from. Glad that vids are shedding light on this cuz he’s misleading a lot of folks. Not everything he says is a falsehood, but he peppers enough of them in his content that it renders it worthless to me.
I gave up on watching Flicker's videos a while ago, after similar videos - such as claiming all pickups sound the same. I have collected over the years a bunch of different pickups - something I'm interested on - and they sound and feel very different, less so under high gain, but still different. I don't know what Glenn does with his videos to make they sound the same, but I have ears and there's a big difference by simply switching them on my own setup.
I also get he wants to be a consumer advocate and get people to not obsess over expensive boutique pickups, but I nonetheless found those videos misleading at best.
i agree with you, i guess when you have a bit of experience and you have a sufficient level at guitar to truly understand the nuances you understand that. but i guess most of his viewers are intermediate level guitar players who dont have enough skills to really make the difference, and glenns videos where everything is tone matched ( even to some ridiculous extent) is not helping. a big part of wht he is not mentionning is the response and feeling of pickups and amps, sure it doesnt always comes through in the mix but 99.9% of the time when were playing guitar is not in a recording session so pleasure is more important if you know what i mean
He didn't claim all pickups sound the same, he claimed the difference is minor at high gain.
It's crazy how different they sound given that they both come from SLO lineage. I've got a Mesa Trem-O-Verb right now. I've owned a few other variants in the past. I've owned a 6505, and played plenty of the other Peaveys, and Fender 5150s. While I can tweak a Recto to sound a lot more like a 5150: Orange channel, vintage mode, pull your highs all the way back, mids all the way up, back the bass to around 9-10 O'Clock, presence to taste, leave the channel volume high, and compensate with the master. That will get you in the ballpark. Every pot has a slightly different taper afterall. That being said, who would EVER think to EQ an amp like that unless they know the tone stack like that? Most people looking for heavy sounds with a Recto are going to use that signature Modern mode sound anyway. That's the sound everyone loves out of them.
All that said, the reverse cannot be done. A 5150/6505 always sounds like itself. Even with the EQ in crazy places, it sounds like a 5150 variant. An angrier, gainier, less refined sounding little brother to it's Soldano relative. It's why myself and so many others love them.
I'm happy you did this video in order to give another side of the story
Thanks for stepping up and doing your own testing, as one set of tests by one person does not constitute diffinitive findings. It's very important that bold claims are thoroughly and carefully examined.
I've long thought that "EQ Matching" is one of the most amazing and powerful tools in audio.
I think he was right because even in your clip they sound pretty much the same just different equalization. And since there's a million different ways to change EQ around, it's kind of like saying a Ford F-150 is pretty much the same as a Chevy Silverado.
They really don't though, really different midranges. Might want to check out my followup video where I show the mid ranges of the amps are in entirely different places.
Well done
I actually have to agree.. I do own both amps and they do sound completely different from each other in my experience. I mean sometimes i can listen to a song and pin point that they were using rectifiers. Rectos has such a unique sound to them and in my experience its way different to my 5150/6505
Im glad you did this and i can't listen Glenn no more and no one needs to be talked to like that by him.
From my own experience, you can use EQ to make most high gain amps pretty much all sound the same. Yes they do have variations in the frequencies that are adjusted by their built in EQ pots but using an EQ pedal you can adjust these amps to all pretty much have the same sound, especially if you are using the same guitar cab with the various amps you are tweaking. IDK if that is what Glenn did in his video since I haven't watched it (his vids are pretty annoying) but this would make sense. One thing the Rectifier amps do have that some others do not is the extended low end response. This can be sort of added to amps that do not have this with EQ in the effects loop but the Rectifiers have this built in which is handy for brutal death metal type tones.
The mid range and really everything about my rev g is different than any of my other amps. Point is though, amps demonstrably can have a big impact on the tone, which Glenn said they don't.
He's not hiding the fact that he tweaked the eq of the amp to make them match. What he's saying is the speaker is what will make your sound change the most, at least in a context of a mix, and people should consider looking for an other speaker instead of spending thousands of dollars in a new head. I would love having a Glenn's response on this one, should be interesting
finally someone who gets the point
I mean he spent 20 minutes saying the amps sound identical because they have the same speaker, but sure we can interpret what he "actually meant."
Regardless, I did a followup video that shows the midranges of these amps are in entirely different places and also that the rev g is permanently scooped where the 6505/5150 has all.of it's midrange, you might find that interesting. It's linked in the pinned comment.
This is also how they both sound when I have used them. Two very different sounds with extremely different saturation & distortion.
I did a followup video that I put in a pinned comment on why they sound different, and it comes down to their midranges are very different. The mid control on the 6505 affects 500-1k, which is already naturally scooped on the dual rec as it turns out, and the dual rec's mid control affects 250-500hz.
Great video and fully agree, i felt bad for Kaddy as he was singled out and made to look bad by Glenn and his large subscriber base, well out of order and almost bully like behaviour. Kaddy handled it well though and more of us so called dumb guitarists should back him up. Cheers! 👍🏻
Yeah, looks like he took a page out of Chapman's book.
Thanks for this video ! 🙏
I’m so glad you guys are showing the actual truth here. Glenn’s video left me kind of frustrated 🤷♀️
Me too. Turns out amps can significantly effect the tone. Who would have guessed?
Do you think Glenn was lying or that he just tweaked the amps to sound the same?
@@strangelet4588 Glenn is so hellbent on only speakers changing the tone, and we never see his equipment in real time etc. I'm pretty sure he's lying and tweaks the gear to make the graph be either similar or different, depending on the narrative of the video.
@@olebrumme6356 Do you think Metalhead tried to get the two amps to match a tone he liked? Maybe he just dialed in two different tones and didn't even try to get them to sound similar. Maybe even pushed them further apart so the video would hit harder? Who knows. The point I got out of Glenns speaker rant, if you're looking for different tones is "try getting some used speakers and see if that can get you where you want to go" The tone shift IS quite massive. Another option is of course the much more costly decision of getting a different amp. Kyle Bull took it a step further and says "screw the hassle of speakers", just get a para EQ to tone shape. LambChopper is a tone guru for metal imo and uses this technique. If you have the money though, do both! I am lucky enough to have several nice amps, but I'd be lying if I said I couldn't get a tone from my Revv G20 close to my Slo30.
@@strangelet4588 Honestly we'd need a monitored experiment to get the truth, no edits. I like Kyle Bull, but I'm a minimalist myself. I just want to own one guitar, one amp, few pedals that give me the best experience and sound.
Harsh whistle at 4kHz... That's something I'm solving right now and it's driving me crazy. Is this on all high gain amps? Do pickups accentuate it? I sometimes read people talking about this but then I watch a video where someone puts only high pass and low pass on their guitars and there is none of that... Is the only solution parametric EQ pedal in effects loop?
Most high gain recordings have harshness around 4k. Some plugins for guitars have a notch at 4k built in.
Yeah your examples highlight the differences really well! Nice work.
I've seen a lot of Glenn's videos, and the guy surely enough is the voice of critical thinking. I do tend to believe in what he says based on what he shows us, like he does in the video in question, so I find it very refreshing to see that people actually challenge his claims the way he encourages people to do.
I hope this doesn't end here, and that Glenn actually makes a proper response to this video, because it would appear that the both of you did carry out the test properly, and that leaves us with an interesting question of why the results differ so much.
Maybe this could spark a collaboration of some sort between the two of you? I'd love to see that video 😃
Anyway, good work!
I am a guitar player but also have built amps. The issue with guitar players is that, like many artists, a lot is about how it "feels". Technically speaking the two amps in question are very very close designs. The major differences lie in the power amp and the pot tapers and values. In reality you CAN make them sound the same. Do they sound the same at the same settings - no.
Additionally there's this thing that always gets ignored which is component tolerances. The components in ALL amps are not picked to make a precision instrument, it's not a sniper rifle. This is the reason why players expirience the "I played a jcm 800 before but this one particular one has the mojo!". And that's the truth, the whole truth and nothing bit the truth
An amp has knobs that changes the sound. Doesn't that disprove that two amps can't sound different when the same amp can sound different?
Would be interesting if you managed to get hold of 6260 (Bugera amps). Can be had for about $200 second hand.
Why the hell didn't you use flat both amps!??
Glenn is really good at engineering and mixing, that's all I have to say about Glenn.
If you're not being sarcastic then you're deaf.
Maybe Glenn accidentally used the same amp on both trials and then thought he's on to something...
Gotto love Glenn tho.
just curious,
did you CALIBRATE both
Input/Output (Gain/Volume)
of both Heads ?
(with EQ defeated/bypassed/off )
the MESAs ive had have more low end ... ymmv
i can see how - side by side - both amps CAN be dialed back to sound the same
but then neither have "the sound" character we buy them for.
from a sound engineers perspective , it should not matter;
if it works for a musician to Perform , in the best interest of the Song -
there is no problem.
i think a Line6 Spider amp to drive the same Cabs was also mentionned as a future vid.
- good luck dialing in a usable "Metal" tone with that tho.
They're level matched, gain isn't far off, but I didn't match the EQs, wasn't about that, just about showing you can get big differences with just amps. I'd never argue amps, cabs and mics aren't the most significant difference.
Thank you for this video! I own one Rev D, three Ref F, four Rev G, one 3 channels and two multiwatts and... all these Rectos sound DIFFERENT ! There is no one Recto sound, there are many.
Glenn is right about the speakers, but he is wrong about the amp because his message comes from the mix engineer perspective, not from the guitar player for whom the amp is a source of inspiration. Changing the amp has an impact on the way you play. Never forget that golden rule : the audio chain is a chain. Every part of the chain (the sound of the room included), every change, has something to bring in the final tone. In the Glenn clip, the sound is muddy garbage piece of shit, I can't even recognize a Recto !!! Glenn Fricker is not Mike Fraser or Andy Sneap. He is just a youtuber...
I would take what Glenn says more seriously if his demos and playing actually sounded good.
he can't play guitar lol
@@thatlonzoguy he can't mix either
When I heard him say that, I kind of laughed because i know he's trying to get the community to fire up. You can make the amps sound the same but that can only happen if you EQ the amps close as you can, do post processing, and boost the dual/triple rectifier and switch toe rectifier to modern mode. An unboosted dual or triple rectifier sounds a bit tubby or muddy while the 5150 is tight. Hell, even my quad cortex has both 5150 and dual rectifier captures and they sound way different
He tried to get out in front of digital amps sounding different, ironically saying they do stuff to the digital amps to make them sound different to sell them, which is prob true to a degree.
This isnt to challenge your results, as they line up with what many would expect (the sound each amp is known for) but did you try to use the amp eq to get them as close as possible, id think you should be able to get them matched up a little more, not identical but close. Ive found the main difference in tube amps tends to be the eq, so simply adding an eq pedal or in post can make most amps match up almost identically, even if theres some fairly large differences in design. In that case, it doesnt make sense to buy an extra tube head for what amounts to eq.
The point wasn't to try to EQ them as close as possible. I still can get them super close without an outside EQ because of the midrange differences between them, but Glenn said over and over that big tone differences don't come from amps, they come from the speaker. I agreed the biggest difference was the speaker, even said to try different cabs and speakers before buying a bunch of amps, but this video shows you can get big tonal differences with just amps as well.
You are being very diplomatic about telling people, that Glenn is misleading people just for clickbait.
Thank You for making this video! Seriously.
I've always been an OG 5150/6505 guy, but that Rev G sounds beastly as fuck, makes me wanna play cannibal style riffs all day
You run the presence pretty low and mids pretty high on the 6505. how much time did you actually spend on using the amp controls to get them as close as possible? My guess is, that you could make the 6505 sound much closer to the rectifier, but you probably couldn’t achieve the sound you dialed in on the 6505 with the rectifier.
In my experience amps do matter, but you can get most pretty close to each other
I don't run them as close as possible, I run them sounding best. Their mid ranges are in very different places. The mids in the rev g are lower, around 750-500hz and and the 6505 is higher up and more nasal.
Regardless, that shouldn't matter right, if it's all the speaker? His whole point was you don't get big tonal shifts with different amps, you get them with the speaker and I have demonstrated you can indeed get big tone differences with just the amo.
My rev g sounds nothing like any of my other amps, and I can't get any of them sounding like it without some big EQ moves in post.
With how perfectly identical Glenn's amps sounded, there is something up.
@@MetalHeadProductions Well his point is use the eq on the amp before spending thousands of dollars. And I think he has a point to a degree. I think if the eq curves allows for it, it is fair game. No matter what you consider „big EQ moves“. For example check out how Josh Middleton dials in his 6505. mids almost off and it sounds much more in the ballpark than you make it seem here. For some people that approximation might be good enough.
I personally don’t buy a 6505 to make it sound like a rectifier and prefer a tone much closer to what you dialed in. But before you spend 2k on a rev g maybe try using the eq to match it as closely as you can. (If you are only after one rhythm sound you like, that is. Of course the amps differ in many other ways which might warrant a purchase)
@@Patrick-rf7vx no his point was literally that big tone shifts don't come from Amos. He stays several times in the video, and I was able to show you absolutely can get big tonal shifts with amps.
Honestly Glenn couldn't have been more clearly, why with trying to shift goal posts.
The 6505 sounds good with the mids around 6 and the dual rec is better a bit scooped because it's midrange is in that wooden, horrible sounding area around 500-750hz, which again is beside the point, which is that you can absolutely get significant tonal changes with just amps.
@@MetalHeadProductions I would never guessed that some day I will have to defend Glenn, but at 12:00 minutes in the video he EXACTLY touches on this point. I think he could have made that portion a lot bigger part of the video, but you are wrong here.
Some amps just have different designs/and or values for the pots. I think you are being intellectually lazy if you don't consider this and try to compensate for that with the controls (that are there to be used!!!). For Example: The presence of my revv generator red channel sounds at 5 exactly like a 6505's presence at 8. I don't go around and say that the 6505 is much darker just because it is when set both to 5. That would be stupid. Sorry to be that harsh, but you are being lazy.
@@Patrick-rf7vx cool so you're going to quote mine he and I to try and make a video where he calls guitarists dumb for thinking the amp can make a difference to the tone stupid, talked about when he got a framus cobra it sounded like his other amps, and had a thumbnail of the two amps on the trash on fire, that video wasn't actually about what glen said it was all because you say so.
geez, that thing sounds 12 times better than I thought it would!
Is it not the case that the Dual Rec was somewhat of a takeoff from (or Mesa's answer to) the 5150/SLO style sound that was around at the time?
I have very little experience with 6505 and Dual Rec amps, and zero experience with Soldanos or the original Peavey 5150's (although I've played through the EVH 5150's).
As far as I can remember with the Dual Rec, they have that somewhat similar "sag" that the 5150/6505 amps are known for. That being said, the Dual Rec still has that distinct Mesa tone and is a bit drier sounding than the 6505/5150.
This is as much of a feel thing as it is a sound thing.
Just my 2 cents. I find this an interesting topic of discussion.
Each of them had their own little changes. The midranges are pretty different on the two amps. Dual rec is more difficult to deal with but it's less compressed and has a different feel for sure.
@MetalHeadProductions I've got a Mesa Mark V which I know are incredibly mid-heavy. Are Dual Rectfifiers similar in that way as well? Meaning, you'd need to "scoop" the mids to make it less harsh sounding?
I remember playing a 50W EVH 5150 through a 2x12 cabinet, and it was incredibly easy to dial in.
I find the challenge with the Mark V amps is to find the point at which there's just enough mid-range to cut the air, but not so much that it causes the ears to fatigue quickly. And improperly EQ'd Mesa Boogie is almost painful to listen to LOLOL.
Glenn is a RUclipsr, not an audio engineer nor a guitar player.
Both amps are iconic. Both amps have many iterations so it’s really like apples and oranges. Love them both but recto gets my vote every time.
Mike Soldano: *not so much of a joke to you now, am I?*
Lol
Could you repeat the experiment by tone matching (amp eq) one to sound as close as possible to the other? I am not doubting you and I am not doubting Glenn, or to put it better I am doubting all of you because I have not done the experiment myself but if by just turning a few knobs they are really that close that would prove Glenn's point, which is that you don't need another amp.
I don't mean to come off as a smart-ass, I am just curious as to where the truth lies. Probably somewhere in the middle.
Why? That's not the point. The point was to show you can get big tonal differences between amps only with everything else the same, which Glenn said you couldn't. I have the amps set where I like them and without some post EQ I can't make them sound identical anyways.
I don't know why people are so hung up on wanting me to try to match the tones on the amp, that's missing the entire point, I'm just calling out Glenn's misleading hyperbole.
@@MetalHeadProductions because that was Glenn’s point. Don’t spend money on a new amp or new valves, spend them on speakers, you can approximate the rest. At least that was his point last year, I can’t say I am a very regular viewer of his.
@@MetalHeadProductions The way I see it, if you match Glenn's results, we know for sure he tweaked the hell out of the amps to make them sound as close as possible. Probably more bs from his channel that you can debunk too.
Good video. Sadly Glenn is totally missing the point of making each amp sound it's best on it's own and THEN comparing them, instead of making them sound similar. Yes, if you try to make things sound similar, they sound similar, duh. What a revelation. You don't buy an amp to make it sound like another amp. That's what a mental rock would do.
Even still, I did a followup video on this and showed the midranges for these amps are in entirely different places, the dual rec's is much lower which is why it sounds better scooped because it's getting rid of that muddy frequencies and the 6505 has the mids much higher which is why the amp cuts in a mix so well and sounds better with the mids boosted.
I can't get them to sound as identical as he did without post EQ which I suspect, but can't prove he did.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yes, that and: some of the best producers/engineers out there quad track rhythm guitars with different amps. If they'd sound THE SAME ... that would make no sense. If quadtracking with 2 different amps is fair game, because the amps sound different enough to alter the result, they sound different enough on their own.
Rectos have had so many changes made to them over the years as well so the Revision on the Recto can be a factor as well.
Glen is far from an expert on a lot of things
great vid !! i really love both of your guys channels and think you both did an awesome job !! i think it’s also worth mentioning Fluff compared a Dual Rec to a 5150 iii (EL34??) and the results he got were also very very similar however his comparison wasn’t as thorough.
but that said i think the both of you make great points !!
I don't disagree at all you can get amps to sound very similar. Never argued that, and I even say I'm this video to focus on speaker and cabs before buying a bunch of amps. I was just saying it's misleading to say you don't get big differences with different amps, just speakers/mics. Clearly you can get different results. That's all.
Glenn Fricker touting irresponsible nonsense, now that's hot news. 😂
Got tricked for a moment by the caption in thinking I was clicking on a GF video, but then was pleasantly treated to a more tuneful voiceover. Easier to enjoy and appreciate the great variety in amp tones when not being yelled at.
Every time I click on one of Glen's videos I think: "On Today's Episode of ANGRY GUY YELLING!!!!!"
I'm fairly convinced at this point that he's a classic case of "I SPEAK REALLY LOUD AND BRASH SO I MUST BE HONEST!!!!! (though I'm actually lying half the time)" and I lost patience for him 343768672 ridiculous takes ago ("you can't mix on headphones" and "you're an idiot if you buy an Axe FX instead of a Marshall" were my breaking point).
Also, even if he somehow got the two amps to sound this close (REALLY doubt it), that means nothing because there is a slight overlap, but also lots of things each amp can do that the other can't. Pretty sure you can get most "metal" amps to approximate some mid-gain setting on a Fender, but yeah that's about where the similarities end.
Mesa, lot boxier and muddier. Obviously more bass frequency. 6505, more bite and brilliance. I think GF’s videos have more of a postproduction approach, when a lot of adjustments have been done after miccing and mixing, obviously giving the impression that everything is a lot flatter and more lineal. In my experience amps differ dramatically before they are mixed and mastered. Of course compressing and limiting to death will make everything sound the same
I can't believe much of what Glen says. I'll leave it there and watch actual informative stuff like this instead.
People need to stop fixating on "what makes the most difference" in a chain where every component matters to some extent. Figuring out how each component of a chain effects each other is a useful skill and encourages people to experiment.
Good video.
It would be cool to do an experiment where you dial in a tone you like on one amp, then try to recreate the same tone in the other by modifying setings. I imagine that some sounds could be achieved with both amps while others sounds would have a much greater difference.
I get Glenn's point about amps being able to sound alike. But that also negates the fact that not everyone wants their amp to sound the way he dialed them in to get that result.
Well if that was just his point I would have left it alone, but I felt like there was some EQ behind the scenes to get the amps so identical, can't prove it, just seems like it, and he said what was making the amps sound identical was the speaker and that big tone differences come from the speaker not the amp. I showed you can get big differences from the amp to illustrate he's being hyperbolic and dishonest.
I added with him with how significant and important speakers, mics and cabs are.
@@MetalHeadProductions I think he said he dialed them in to be as close as possible and I assumed he meant using the EQ on the amps themselves… but to be honest, it wasn’t my favorite tone for either amp. Definitely not one I would want to use in a mix. He may have done something in post, but that isn’t provable like you say.
The advantage of having a different amp and circuit to create gain is that they will have different tolerances, ranges and responses. Can you make them sound alike, possibly, but likely at the expense of their optimal tone. The speaker is the ultimate equalizer, but it has to respond to the frequencies being pushed into it. It might be interesting to try in a real world setting if you can get both amps to sound alike using amp EQ only, and what you would have to do to accomplish that.
@@BaritoneGoatStudio the 6505 sound good setup in ways the dual rec doesn't, and vise versa, that's why it's good to have other amps. Also how they take pedals and whatnot.
I just don't like the hyperbolic misinformation.
I find a lot of Glenn's stuff to be very factually accurate, but I also find that his attempt to be a shock jock and be childish can lead him to parking himself on the corner of WRONG street and FAFO avenue with his foot knee deep in his mouth from time to time. It's why I refuse to get all my guitar and recording info from a single source, because Glenn is just like everyone else - human, and not entirely infallible. He's not immune to getting caught in public stroking his ego to completion, or just being plain wrong. I treat every source of every information this way, from news to computer and music gear reviews.
I unsubbed from his channel a long time ago. These are two different amps and they have always had different characteristics. The fact that he even said that pickups have nearly nothing to do with tone makes me suspicious.
Fricker is basically clickbait. He tries to be ..shocking or something. I don't own them, but have played them both.
I didn't pay attention to what Glenn's test parameters are. I also would have preferred if your test was through a physical speaker and microphone, but that's just because I've been doing this for ages, but I also didn't check all your test parameters. I really haven't had to do much "amp shootout" in my career. Whatever the guitar player(s) bring in(typically to the stage), that's what we use as we don't have time to go do the A/B compare game during a sound check. I think you're bringing up a very interesting and valid point, which aligns a bit more how I have approached this issue: The guitar player has selected each bit of gear, that when combined together, is able to produce the "sound" they are looking to project/present. With that in mind, not bit of gear in the signal chain is unimportant. If your test was "everything on the amp set to flat" before driving the iR, then it proves your point: the amps themselves do not sound the same, at least in a zero'd configuration. The fact that they can be made to sound the same is a different argument.
after i saw his video "guitars dont matter" i was already sure that he is going to push the agenda that nothing makes big changes, just change speakers to the point where he will be saying that boss mt2 into poweramp sounds same like vht pitbull, because it is the cab that makes the difference :D
the dude is just a joke and does clickbait stuff all the time nowadays
Just because certain amps can be dialed in in a similar way doesn't mean that's the way you would dial these in like that. It'll probably not be the way you want a certain amp to sound, I guess. Maybe you want a certain sound/feel out of an amp because that's the way that amp sounds best (to you). Then there's also the sound in the room, the feel of an amp, not everyone is just focussing on recording, which Glenn really does, that's his thing, I get it. So yeah, I'd still love a Dual Rectifier (or Badlander, who knows, at least when these are available again in the EU, which, apparently, should be soon) and 5150 type/variant. Let's keep this fun for everyone, shall we? ;)
Obviously Glen is wrong. Both amps sound very different. We all agree that the cab and the speaker has the most impact but that doesnt mean that the amp doesnt play a role.
Absolutely
It goes back to what Glenn mentioned. Knobs change things - if you can make them sound almost identical by simpmy turning knobs what else needs to be explained? The 5150/6505 and dual rect are based off the SLO 100 - different enough to dodge a lawsuit. The irony of tone policing a video about tone. Love it.
The family of amps that we know as the 5150 and Dual Recto were released starting in 1992. Rectos have (and still are) more expensive then 5150's. If Glen's statement was even remotely true, then why would anyone have bothered buying a Recto?
BTW, thanks for making a video where a civil discussion could be had about this topic. I am, and have been, completely over Frickers "rage over everything". approach for some time now. There is no need to be a sh!thead when discussing guitar amps, thanks for being a calm professional. I hope things are better in your world.
For sure, and I also did a follow-up video showing the two amps have really different midranges which is why they sound different even with the same speaker. I pinned that video in the comments.
I think Glenn is good at showing that we are probably overly focusing on certain details rather than the big picture. (good song writing, speakers and cabinets ect...) However, I do agree with you here, that these do not sound extremely similar. Can they both overlap and do a lot of the same things? Sure. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you are looking for the details that make that last 5-10% difference, I think a lot of things Glenn writes off as useless (amps and pickups in particular) have a place.
Glenn must have reached the end of the outrage he could generate dunking on Gibson and decided to move on to something else. I don't click on his videos with clickbait titles.
You can sit around and mangle amps to sound however you want, that's not really how people go about jamming, writing, or making a record. They use the sounds they like!
I've never really liked Glenn specifically for making everything sound the same. I mean the way you dial in an amp makes a huge difference.
good video 👌
I think Glen is addicted to being to having controversial guitar related opinions because it gives his channel a lot of extra attention and allows him and his audience to act smarmy.
Also sometimes I wonder if he just has the world most colored signal chain. I've used some IRs that almost have no transparency to the sound.
I think he does indeed like making controversial videos for views, this felt particularly misleading and warranted a response.
I think thats kind of his point he could make both amps sound the same so you dont need to own both
No his point was the only thing that matters is the speaker and if you want big tonal changes, that's done by the speakers, which clearly you can get big differences with Amos as well. It's also worth saying I can't get my 6505 to sound identical to my rev g without big eq changes in post. Entirely different mid ranges, to put it mildly,.
@@MetalHeadProductions he says at the end about how people say hes a terrible studio engineer but at the same time ppl are complaining that he manipulated the the two amps to sound alike which would require some level of knowledge as a studio engineer so he was just trying to flex on everyone so basically by making this video you just proving that he actually a good studio engineer
@@Durkhead lol, what? I showed how little effort it takes to tone match something with the fabfilter.
You're really reaching, man. Glenn said amps don't make a significant tonal difference, just the speakers do that, and I showed the amps can make a significant difference, as did kaddy.
Good comparison. To me it shows that Mesa is on a hype ride and not really worth the money, as again Peavey sounds better to my ears.
I'd say how you set it up has a bit to do with it as well. No dog in this fight but on the kemper the Dual can sound super close tot he 5150 and have interchanged them as well. If nothing else this certainly alows for more discussion and actual testing being done so a great response back to him
Profilers and modelers can't really be factored though because those are not real life. No company is going to make a modeling unit where every high gain amp you can cycle through sounds the same. That would be terrible for business. As far as profilers, there are so many factors that go into profiling an amp that you can't really trust that either. This debate is exclusively regarding real amps.
That is your opinion, profilers and modlerres can so close, and most people use IR's these days there is still some factor they can play a part of regardless if you think not
@@travisspaulding2222 Also "No company is going to make a modeling unit where every high gain amp you can cycle through sounds the same. That would be terrible for business." A Dual and 5150 can be diale din to sound the same too, so can profilers and moddleeres how does that make them so different and not a factor then?
@@suffersystemstudiosPlease understand the difference between having the ability to make them sound the same and having the ability to make them sound different. If you hit anything with enough gain, the distortion and the compression will reduce any kind of differences the amp may have. That is why most high gain players don't turn the gain up that high. Most of us keep the gain as low as necessary to achieve the chugs we need without sacrificing articulation. Profiles are the worst to compare because you still need to either mic the cab or use an IR to get the capture. Profiles don't just magically download an amp's tone from the amp itself. It captures the amp, the speaker, the mic placement, etc. That's why they aren't valid. The debate isn't about modelers or profiles. This debate is about real amps.
In the world of science research, the common practice with publishing a paper on a discovery, the exact methods used by the lab are included. I think Glenn should probably show his exact process and let others try to duplicate his results. I'm not a super hi gain amp sort of person but I'd assume that Glenn probably tried to make those amps sound the same as opposed to just dialing in the tone that the amp inspires or delivers most easily. Your Mesa was very fizzy compared to the more boxy peavy. Those sounds would definitely lead one to believe the amps are massively different. I would guess there's a technique to A/B them and dial in more similar tones but the controls might be wildly different.
Glenn: Hey, you can spare money and change your tone significantly just by changing your speakers.
Guitarrists: No, thanks.
Oh I agreed entirely about speakers being the most important and even said in this video to try different speakers before buying amps, but whatever
Let me play devils advocate. Those two amps do sound pretty close. The distortion has a very simular structure... It's not like the difference between an hm2 and ds1.
That said his statement would mean all amps sound similar. Orange vs marshall vs slo clones vs fenders these amps are very different. My katana can sound like many things and to that arguments yes amps can sound alike but only if the amp has the ability to hit certain levels of saturation and has the ability to tone match. Using an eq after doesn't count IMHO.
Glen is annoying. Can’t stand his videos. Probably wouldn’t like him as a person either. I don’t find any value in his videos. Yours are cool though. I watch them from time to time.
Everything in the signal chain makes a difference, heck even the instrument cable does. Yea, the speaker is a huge part but amp makes a huge difference too, some amps sound like shit. For these saturated metal tones the amp makes a lesser difference than lower gain amps, but it still makes a difference. I really don’t understand why this is supposed to be an issue. I’ve had people bring shitty amps to my studio, if I can’t get a good tone out of it I offer them to use my gear. Yea not all amps sound the same.
You can look up charts on the voicings of different amps and where to set the tone knobs to basically bypass the tone stacks in the amp.
Yes, different EQ changes the sound, but the base circuitry in the 2 amps is near identical.
If you have a moment, take a peak at Jim Lil's video on where the tone comes from in an amp.
I've seen Jim's video and it's great. Not the point here, Glenn said big tone changes happen with the speaker, even went out of his way to say a fraud cobra sounded basically the same as his other amps. I wanted to show Glenn was being misleading and that Amos can have a big impact on tone.
@@MetalHeadProductions , but the point that the main difference between the amps is where the EQ frequency occurs for the tone knobs. (And also where the compression occurs)
Both basically have a fender design power section. And mostly similar preamp circuits, just with different capacitance.
But even with a significantly different preamp section like a Mark Tremonti signature amp, the distortion caused by preamp tube compression will sound like tube compression/distortion. From there, it's just flavors.
But if someone starts to say that a boss DS2 sounds like a dual rec, then we'll know they are off their rocker.
I think the problem with Glenn's video is he is using super low tuned guitars, which is going to make it harder to find a difference between amps. Glenn does have valid points about speakers, but amps, tonewood, speakers, playing style, all add up.
So in general, every amp sounds different doesn't matter if its a real amp or an amp sim, they all sound different. So you guys are right about that and glenn is wrong in that category.
Something I just thought about that someone either trying to make or refute this claim can do. All the knobs on the 5150 are big arrows that make it plain as day where the settings are just by looking, whereas the dual rec just has blank, circular knobs. If you were to say "i put all the knobs at 12'o clock", with both amps in the shot in the video, we'd clearly see that's the case with the 5150, but we'd be none the wiser if you happened to change any of the knobs on the dual rec. Invalidating any claim either in favor or against
I didn't set these the same and say I did though, and neither did glenn. The bass and treble were the same, but the midrange controls control different frequencies. 6505 sounds better pushing the mids a bit so the mids were just past noon and the dual rec mid control sounds better just below noon because it's midrange controls the lower mids which don't sound very good.
I did match the settings in a followup video I did where I sweep the mid controls for both Amos so you can see they're in entirely different places. It's linked in the pinned comment.
On and you missed the point, it wasn't to make the amps sound the same, just to show you could get big tone differences between two amps.
Please set both amps at noon- which is supposed to be the sweet spot for most high gain amps. In the screen capture, it looked like the knobs on both amps are set to your taste, not noon for both heads.
Also, the point of the video was to save people money. Shows that speakers are very important. Often more important than the amp itself.
I’ve run a jet city, old Carvin and a b-52, and at gain, with the same guitar, they were all kind of the same, if i set up the tone, pedals, and gain stages the same. But change a Randall cab to a Marshall cab, a slant from a bottom, and I’ll see a huge different in tone.
As to his tips on recording, I’ve been following him since 2017. In the past year and a half, I’ve taken mixing much more serious, and his tips, his review livestreams, and advice have taken my mixes to a night and day difference. So, i feel he’s doing something right. Is his persona a bit over the top? Yeah, but like most things on the internet, it’s theater.
High praise for your video. I’d just like to have seen both heads at noon all the way across. And a mic’ed cab, rather than IR. Because the mic also plays a part….
Who said that's supposed to be the sweet spot for high gain amps? It's not and it's where either of these amps sound best, especially the dual rec. That mid range will start sounding awful.
This wasn't about setting them the same, it was about showing you can get large tonal changes with just the amp. I agreed with Glenn that the speakers make the biggest difference, I just didn't like he was misleading people that amps can't make a big difference as well.
lol
@@MetalHeadProductions 100% agree. This is especially true for most Bogner amps. They use audio (logarithmic) taper pots so noon will specifically sound different versus a linear taper pot amp. This is why Bogners get the misconception of being "darker" amps because you need to set the treble to around 6-8/10 to be equivalent to a Marshall amp at noon.
Finally, people start to expose Glenn for the fraud he is. I sold off most of my amps because I have a QC now, but I've been playing guitar since 1989, so experience has shown me that what Glenn is saying is misleading. He sells IRs and he obviously has a relationship with Thomann because he can't get through a video without pushing their cabs. Since I sold most of my amps, I can't do a comparison, but I know he's full of shit. He isn't trying to save people money. He's trying to funnel it through himself. Which is fine if he was being honest.
I had to unsubscribe from Glenn a year or two ago.
Let´s have Plague Schyte Studios do this test - AND react to both videos - and see and hear what he comes up with.
After 40 years of twiddling knobs my experience is that with a sufficiently precise multiband actually fully parametric eq with a q function narrow enough you can have just about anything sound like anything else, so I think Glenn´s point is valid.
Mostly people just want bias confirmation.
Gives them such a warm fuzzy feeling inside,- and for that they are willing to throw A LOT of good money into it.
Both of these amps are relatively similar up until the fourth gain stage. After that, they're completely different as far as the 5150/6505 having two additional gain stages, different power supply topology, completely different fx loops and the power amps have some differences that all impact the tone. I've played and even built clones of both amps and as far as my experiences, I could never get a Recto circuit to come close to the saturation of the 5150. I'm starting to think that Glenn gets paid by the big speaker companies to push the speaker= tone myth. Throw a TS-9 in front of two amps and rely on compression and studio processing and of course they'll sound similar
I did a follow up video that show the mid ranges of both amps are in entirely different places, the recto is much lower which is why those amps usually sound better scooped, and the 6505 is much higher which is why it cuts in a mix better and some people describe it as being nasal sounding.
Idk what he did to make them sound that close but I really do feel it must have taken post EQ to do it.
@@MetalHeadProductions yes, 100% on the mid notch difference between the two. Most of that tonal difference is actually from the different fx loops used and the two additional stages in the 5150. The loops in both amps color and voice the tone a bit. 5150's loop is designed to emphasize more harmonics and high mids in a relatively clean manner with less bass and relys on the depth control in the Power amp to compensate the lack of bass, while the rectifier loop adds more low mid distortion and a thicker sound. I've noted that the NFB resistors play a part too. With a 39k in the 5150 and a 47k in the recs (vintage mode only. NFB is completely disconnected in modern mode). I added an NFB switch to one of my 5150ish builds to go from the stock 39k to 47k and it's amazing the difference it makes in the way the amp reacts with the speakers. If Glenn wanted to be truly helpful he should talk about how a variable NFB control on the back of any amp impacts the tone, regardless of the speaker used.
I think the 6505 and Rectifier are probably the worst options to try to suggest that amps sound different being that their preamp topology is both based on the SLO. Like maybe a Fryette Pittbull vs an Orange Rockerverb. Or an SLO vs a Mark IV.
Glenn is also a fantastic moron.