First off I’m a 62 year old guy and have been Hot Rodding FORDS since I helped my Pop build his last 300hp Flathead. I’m not being an asshole here but I thought everyone knew that a stock 302 wasn’t compatible with 202/160 heads without flycutting the slugs. You learned a valuable lesson that you can pass on to others of your age/era and I gotta say Good Job in doing what had to be done! You just popped into my feed and I’m looking forward to seeing how your’Stang runs with the 185’s.
hell yeah man.. thank you and welcome to the channel. I have a few videos of the car running after the head install.. then i blew the t5 up lol currently waiting on some parts but we’ll be back up and running in no time 🤘🏼
@@JovanMichaels - It sounds like those 185’s are making some power if you found out just how much the T5 can take! LOL! Going to a TKO or T56? Or perhaps you’re gonna switch to an automatic?
@@cavscout62a stock t5 is pretty easy to grenade. They use to be a dime a dozen in the wrecking yard. Also I just noticed your name. I was a scout out of Lewis and Carson.
I’m runnin 2.02/1.60 in mine stock 5.9 HO pistons promaxx180cc heads clear just fine been running it with TFS stg1 cam for months 6400-6800rpm over and over and over again no problems whatsoever valves were not even close to touching depth or radius
Water Displacement-40 should not be used as a lubricant no matter what ANYBODY SAYS. Brushing Schaeffer molly oil is highly recommended for such things
Jovan I fly cutter one of my engines years ago for a 2.08 int. Valve. I looked around and found a flycutter that looks like a Valve with 6 carbibe cutter bits silver soldered to the head . You just put it in place of the Valve in your head and bolt on the head and mark the depth to cut and chuck it in drill and cut. Very fast and very clean.
yeah i saw those when i was looking into the whole deal.. thing is i didnt have to cut deeper.. i just had to make the eyebrow a little wider .. but those valve looking cutters are nifty 🤘🏼
Man I applaud your bravery putting out this video with so little information. If you had only ordered 1.6 ratio rockers would have saved so much time and effort. Piston to valve clearance is a measurement based on lift at valve and duration of cam dwell at TDC and when the piston is traveling up and down in the bore. To be an information video cam information should be in the video. And measurements of the clay where it contacts. Love the car and the project but ask questions before jumping in if you want to avoid mistakes
Thank you so much for all the new engine builders. It takes a real man to admit when he’s made a mistake. Obviously there’s a lot of talented people who knew all of this. But thousands of people who did not know this. And you just help them not to make the same mistake. Well done!!
Aside from the miscalculation on the valve diameter to valve relief cut into the piston, which you already caught- you're checking PTV clearance with an uncompressed head gasket. Some gaskets will give you uncompressed thickness, some won't. Easy way is to measure the thickness with a good quality caliper before you begin. You'll lose the clearance difference of uncompressed to compressed thickness. Example: you measure a gasket as .038" uncompressed and its stated compressed thickness is say .026". Your PTV clearance when you measure the thickness of the putty/ play doh/ whatever you need to subtract the .012" you'd lose after the gasket was installed and compressed. Make sense?
It don’t make two 💩’s if you have 0.125” ptv clearance which is about what you need! I measure them with no head gasket and add the compressed thickness.... 😂😂😂. He needs higher compression and proper quench distance and custom spec cam to make it run!
Nice video, I am 74 and been rodding since the 60's. Just keep one thing in mind. We learn more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. It takes a humble person to admit a mistake. and you handled the issue in a positive way, job well done. We all have done similar things. Be proud, you do nice work.
Hey there, I had this issue once before. I put nuts on the head bolts half way down and used the old head as a jig. I used a slightly larger valve to get the clearance I needed and glued coarse paper to the valve. I put the valve in the guide, the head on the nuts so I could see under head and let the valve touch the piston. I put a drill on the valve and with a gauge I spaced the drill chuck from the valve guide. Once the chuck touched the valve guide I had the desired cut depth. Looked factory.
Don't worry, you did it right. Done this quite a few times. The amount of material removed from the pistons is very minimal, almost nothing! Great job.
I was going to say this last video about the 2.02 valves. You NEED fly cut pistons with 2.02 valves. I don’t care what people say about running it and it working fine. No, you do it the right way
AFR makes a 185 Enforcer small valve head w/1.90 intake valve size which requires NO flycutting and a separate 2.02 version which would require flycutting on a stock SBF 5.0 HO piston to obtain proper PTV clearance.
@@AndrewNelson1985 I thought the valves could fit depending on the lift on the cam and the rockers. I was under the impression that with a mild cam and factory rocker, there was no contact.
Other problem with how you checked P-V clearance is you used hydraulic lifters and the Valvesprings that came on the heads, this will give you false measurements on P-V clearance and pushrod length, what I do is I’ll take the hydraulic lifter apart and install a solid shim under the pushrod seat so that it’s effectively a solid lifter just for the measuring process, hydraulic lifter with a good hydraulic roller spring will collapse skewing measurements fyi Something to think about for next time
Braze a piece of carbide to a valve and use it to cut reliefs deeper, old school trick that takes a bit of time, can only do two pistons at a time by bringing it to tdc, tape the gap between the piston and bore bolt down the head with cutter in the guide, make a witness mark on the valve about .025 from the guide, using a drill, cut the piston until you reach that mark, verify proper ptv clearance, all good, rinse and repeat for all the pistons
I ran my stock shortblock 302 with promaxx 180’s. They’re 202 valves also. No fly cut needed. Worked flawless. I’m ready to see this thing hit the track!
If you see this. What cam are you running or did run? I just ordered the same heads for my car, I Currently have a b303. Everyone is telling me that it won't work with this SBE
@@86foxbod I ran an E cam. It was close but it cleared. Promaxx heads. E cam. 150 shot. In my car with some mild suspension and good converter went 11.3’s at 116
I was taught in school that engine building is a different trade for a reason. So I outsource all my engine builds. But it does get tempting to build your own and see how it goes.
I used Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with 2.02/1.60 190cc. I had no problem with piston to valve clearance. Stock pistons stock bottom end. On my 93 Mustang GT. No where I found or read that said 2.02 intake valve are too big for stock 5.0 pistons.
@@blueovalracing1582 b-cam isn’t a big lift cam even with 1.72s. Wasn’t sure what size cam he had and if it was 530”ish before 1.72s is going to be 570”which in general pushing it with stock pistons
That's it Use your Head and use whatever You have available and do it properly on a strict budget and do it right . Looks really good Thanks for the update . 🇺🇲🇵🇷🦊👍
few things, and don't take it the wrong way. just trying to provide info to learn from. 1. when setting that valve lash, you spin with 1 hand and snug with the other. 0 lash isn't when you can't spin anymore. its when you feel resistance on the push rod. 2. for anyone ever doing piston/cylinder work like this, use grease around the piston edge to prevent shavings from going between cylinder wall/piston. wipe/vacuum out when finished. also coat cylinder walls with grease if you ever have to leave the engine open again like that. then wipe away before reassembly. 3. you keep saying "flycut" the pistons. that's not fly cutting.. they sell flycutting tools to use, but you'd have to pull the valve out of the cylinder head. what you did was clearance with a burr tool which is far from machinist accuracy. its on factory pistons so no biggie other than your engine may be slightly out of balance now. but as long as you had clearance requirement met which is 0.080" intake and 0.100" exhaust, you would have been fine.. valve relief doesn't have to match. i run a TFS head on flat top, non-TFS pistons with about a .525 lift. reliefs don't match, but i have clearance so it's fine.
Thank you so much for the helpful information. I'm building a 95 convertible doing alum heads, E303 cam on stock pistons. I'm super nervous about the upcoming initial startup. I didn't check PTV clearance but I probably should have. The heads I installed have 2.02" intake valves and 1.6" exhaust. The stock pushrods are 6.248" long and were too short for proper valve tip roller pattern/geometry, so I had to purchase 6.425" pushrods. I fabbed up a solid lifter to check pushrod length and used an adjustable pushrod to get the right length.
I've seen before taking an old valve and cut the valve so it looks like a cutter that's pretty straight forward slide it all together and hook a drill to the valve stem spin with light down pressure. Obviously using some method of restricting the depth is mandatory for accuracy. A coller with a set screw would be a good method. I'd think going to a slightly larger valve than your using such a a 2.05 if heads use a 2.02 valve. Most likely don't have a spare 2.05 valve so stop in a local speed shops they would probably have n an old unusable valve they had kicking around n give to you, it would work fine for this application,worst case scenario buy one cheap valve online, budget valves are just few bucks for just each and only need 1, that's probably the easiest way to get your hands on a valve. Also to avoid any shavings getting down in by the ring put the correct sized string in the gap and vacuum out the metal before removing the string get it as clean as possible but any residue that may get left will blow out exhaust aluminum is soft it shouldn't cause any damage but change the oil a couple of times for a good cheap measure.
Use modeling clay instead of Playdough. Playdough springs back a small amount and can give bad readings when you throw a caliper on it...I spread a thin film of oil on the valves so it releases easier, again making a clean reading.
Knotching pistons like you did is just old hot rodder stuff. Way back in the 80’s NHRA didn’t allow modifying piston tops,BUT if the valve happened to hit the piston ,well, that was ok. I watched and maybe helped a racer create piston to valve clearance in tech(!) with inspectors there with an old valve and a hammer! The old “valve” was a piece of machined tool steel that fit the valve guide and was the exact diameter of the stock valve.
There's a guy in Illinois sales the tools to fly-cut piston. The look like valves with cutting blades on them and they go in your old heads and run off a drill. I do them all the time
Wow so glad I watched this I'm going borrow afr 185s and install on stock kcode 289 till my 331 is finished. Long story on kcode but now not going thru trouble of swapping heads because not cutting pistons. The motor from another project. Wanted to see how 271 hp 289 would run only swapping heads
AFR makes a renegade 165cc head designed to run with stock pistons. Just FYI. They also flow more than the 185 and forcers. As far as flow. They sit between the 185 and forcers and the 185 renegades CNC.
I had the same problem went to my local machine shop had cutters braised on a pair of valves and set the depth with a stop collar and feeler Guage worked great
I did not hear if this was a hydraulic lifter or solid lifter engine but these checks should be made with a solid lifter to ensure the lifter isn’t bleeding off during the check. I’d also use a compressed gasket although that isn’t as bad as a hydraulic lifter bleeding down and telling lies. If you’re using a solid lifter variant in your application be sure and check with zero lash, but know that the lash you input will add clearance between this piston and valve. Above all else I would advocate learning to use the degree wheel and dial indicators to make these checks at 10 degrees before top dead center and 10 degrees after top dead center DURING THE OVERLAP cycle that is actually 180 from true tdc.
Just ordered the afr 205 race heads can’t wait, just add a little valve relief to the piston it’s ok to do it a lot of people do it you have mechanical skills I’m sure you’ll end up just fine
You can run the 2.02 with out notching pistons only purpose is if your running a big cam with a lot of duration we run 2.02 with x303 and a 2.02 with trickflow stage 2
Dang....now they make enforcers with the 1.90 valves LOL they didn't at the time of the video. But my 302 I'm go in Ng forged DSS pistons and the 2.02 195s and a off the shelf Howards grind I've been eyeing...
you might not have to have flycut those pistons at all. I didn't see you measure the thickness of the clay? All you need is between 80 and 100 thousanths of an inch of clearance. I saw you already have it running so props for being careful.
None of you asked him if he was checking valve to piston with a solid or solid roller lifter that plunger in that liter going to compress round .060 to .125 if it’s a hydraulic roller lifter same goes for a flat tappet
You done great ! I got the same heads in as cast, a few variables, camshaft timing and piston type, incidentally your pistons look way down the bore @ TDC ? I checked mine twice sacrificing a head gasket bolted down to torque and it just touched the inlet valve pocket area but well inside my larger cut outs, I’m running a mild flat tappet street cam and I like solid lifters, motor was not in the car and I have a small milling machine but I’d have done exactly what you did and used a dremmel 👍
What was your final pushrod length, I ordered the same head and am going to do the same clearancing as you did but just a different method, please let me know bud!!!
Damn brother I haven’t seen your vids in my feed in quite some time. The cars come so far my man. Fucking awesome. Gotta get myself going on my fox soon. You’re giving me the itch lmao
that sucks man.. i work hard to get these videos out and youtube for whatever reason doesn’t seem to push them to all my subscribers.. oh well, only thing i can do is keep going and hope one day the algorithm works in my favor 🤘🏼
Hey Jovan, with the push rods adjustments, it’s not until the push rod doesn’t spin anymore, it’s to where you can’t push the pushrod up and down anymore
Actually, it is until the pushrod just resists turning. Please confirm your information before you post. You should also use a solid lifter, or modify a hydraulic one to solid, by gutting it and putting washers inside of it, to figure your pushrod length.
@@MrCaribe65 only time you ever need solid lifters is for very high revving. I hope you have great luck with your pushrod adjustments doing it that way, not sure where you learned that from
@@MrCaribe65 actually your both kind of wrong. double check you information before being negative, you finger tighten the rocker while being able to freely spin the rod, then once you're ready to set the proper lash +/- per the manufacturer, you adjust till you start to feel the resistance on the rod then got 1/2 turn and check the lash. Typical lash 30-60 thousandths on a hydraulic. Aslo should be done in sequence of firing order and all intake first then exhaust.
@@sixoid4104 1. At 0 lash, the pushrod just begins to feel resistance to turning. That's what I meant. 2. When figuring out the correct length pushrod to use, you should use a solid lifter, or modify a hydraulic lifter so that's its solid. I never recommended solid lifters, and have built numerous valvetrains with no issues.
I realize this is 1 year late, but if you were to use the stock 1.6 or even 1.65 ratio rockers instead of a 1.72 ratio, you would be fine. Also, a little more clay would have been a good idea especially since you only went to 0 lash and did not preload the lifters at all, nor did you use low pressure checking springs. All you did was compress the lifter plunger with those springs. Your measurements were way off. You also need to take in account the amount that the head gasket will compress when torqued.
Same for me. Shop had to cut pistons for proper ptv. Also could not use my existing cobra valve covers. Would not clear rockers even with baffle removed. Not even close. Had to buy tall covers. Any running videos of these heads?
She wants you to work for that as oh wait she wants you to work for that HP. Lol Don't forget to paint the tops of those shocks looking a little rusty . Keep those great video coming
Thanks for the vid. I'm in the same as you. I want the AFR 185 heads but I was worried they wont clear the reliefs. Now I might cut them as you did with a dremel. What tool tip did you use, you remember? Did it work out. I dont want the 165s, I want the 185s and I dont give a shit about the bottom end. Run it til it blows.😀 Are peps saying 1.6 rockers would of cleared? I doubt that.
Did you use solid roller lifters when you measured that, I have a couple of solid lifters just for that reason, Hydraulic lifters will collapse a tiny bit,
Definitely keep all important holes taped, especially in FL, lizards make homes outta empty holes quick lol. Ask me how I know. Don't know if your in central fl but if you are American motorsports in Orlando is a great for on the shelf s/bbf and Chevy motors and better prices than the national parts stores for gaskets and stuff like that.
To hell with balanced piston weight! Pull the engine and install 11:1 pistons designed for those valves with 1 mm ring package. Now how thick is that head gasket? Without proper quench distance you’re AFR combustion chambers are rendered useless. Quench distance 0.030”-0.040”. Get this set up properly and with the right cam make some power!
Dude, I knew your problem when I saw the stock pistons. The 165 heads will work but not the 185. I have Probe forged flat-tops in my roller w/ huge reliefs to clear the 2.02 valve. A couple of tips- set zero lash on both valves w/ cam on lobe base. Looks like intake valve is on the ramp. Also fully torque the head in proper sequence to keep from warping it.
So these heads won’t work on a stock bottom end or is it a big lift cam, looking to add these heads to a stock bottoms end piston with TRick flow stage 1 cam
I've done these SBF's for a while, I use Fel-pro gaskets, but I use copper spray gasket maker on head gaskets, the heads come off & clean up easier. you should've only had to grid the intakes relief. but you need to polish it when your done grinding, 400 grit? needed to go to 800 grit, Good Luck
You should have kept the stock 1.6 rocker ratio and there would have been no issue . The 1.72 rockers increased valve lift . Or you could have ordered heads with the 194/160 valve package 2.02 intakes gain you nothing on a stock bottom end .
have 2.02 heads that flow just under (and another set) 310 no need for giant valves. Maybe a high rpm 4125 bore block or more might benefit. Usually not worth the $
I feel like there's something else, only because I've contacted afr prior to purchase and confirmed with them that the 185s will bolt onto the stock ho engine with no interference, instead of deleting my comment from what I've gathered thru comments is that your running a bigger than alpha bet cam with 1.72s I see now.
Do you have these enforcer heads on stock bottom end pistons? I’m looking into these but didn’t know what Kind of lift he has. I have truck flow stage 1
@@jj5519 also I think my total lift with the 1.7 on stock cam is like .456ish as I believe stock cam with stock roller rockers is .444. but I could be wrong about that as I'm going from memory.
Nice video but let's understand something you didn't fly to anything fly cutting is done in a mill with a fly cutter it is clean and cuts clean chips I was an aerospace machinist and build plenty of hot rods in race motors what year did was Dremel them with a pouring tool not the same hopefully you got them all around and clearanced and it will run great but sandpaper I would never touch in a boar a deburring knife or Deborah tool is much safer you leave no grit to wear out your rings and cylinder
I hate to be that guy… but you wouldn’t have that problem with trickflow heads… you can fit WAY bigger cams and not even be inside the valve pockets… I had this same problem with my AFR heads and i traded them for some TFS heads
It should never be a point where the valves are opened and piston is at the top. Compression stroke the valves are shut and exhaust stroke there’s a chance of it hitting but it shouldn’t….the piston should be heading straight downwards.
So My 302 is actually a 347 now. I went w the scat pistons and crank aka rotating assembly. These heads should be solid for those right? Assuming I’m .030 over stock?
First off I’m a 62 year old guy and have been Hot Rodding FORDS since I helped my Pop build his last 300hp Flathead. I’m not being an asshole here but I thought everyone knew that a stock 302 wasn’t compatible with 202/160 heads without flycutting the slugs. You learned a valuable lesson that you can pass on to others of your age/era and I gotta say Good Job in doing what had to be done! You just popped into my feed and I’m looking forward to seeing how your’Stang runs with the 185’s.
hell yeah man.. thank you and welcome to the channel. I have a few videos of the car running after the head install.. then i blew the t5 up lol currently waiting on some parts but we’ll be back up and running in no time 🤘🏼
@@JovanMichaels - It sounds like those 185’s are making some power if you found out just how much the T5 can take! LOL! Going to a TKO or T56? Or perhaps you’re gonna switch to an automatic?
@@cavscout62a stock t5 is pretty easy to grenade. They use to be a dime a dozen in the wrecking yard. Also I just noticed your name. I was a scout out of Lewis and Carson.
I’m runnin 2.02/1.60 in mine stock 5.9 HO pistons promaxx180cc heads clear just fine been running it with TFS stg1 cam for months 6400-6800rpm over and over and over again no problems whatsoever valves were not even close to touching depth or radius
@@jackrabbit7389a 302 and 351 are 2 completely different blocks🤦
Just some friendly advice. Tighten head bolts from the center outwards. This ensures the only way that the head can warp is flat.
It wouldn't matter on a quick ptov check. Only the final assembly
Water Displacement-40 should not be used as a lubricant no matter what ANYBODY SAYS.
Brushing Schaeffer molly oil is highly recommended for such things
@@mikes.1882💯
Jovan I fly cutter one of my engines years ago for a 2.08 int. Valve. I looked around and found a flycutter that looks like a Valve with 6 carbibe cutter bits silver soldered to the head . You just put it in place of the Valve in your head and bolt on the head and mark the depth to cut and chuck it in drill and cut. Very fast and very clean.
yeah i saw those when i was looking into the whole deal.. thing is i didnt have to cut deeper.. i just had to make the eyebrow a little wider .. but those valve looking cutters are nifty 🤘🏼
Man I applaud your bravery putting out this video with so little information. If you had only ordered 1.6 ratio rockers would have saved so much time and effort. Piston to valve clearance is a measurement based on lift at valve and duration of cam dwell at TDC and when the piston is traveling up and down in the bore. To be an information video cam information should be in the video. And measurements of the clay where it contacts. Love the car and the project but ask questions before jumping in if you want to avoid mistakes
Thank you so much for all the new engine builders. It takes a real man to admit when he’s made a mistake. Obviously there’s a lot of talented people who knew all of this. But thousands of people who did not know this. And you just help them not to make the same mistake. Well done!!
thats what im here for! 🤘🏼
Thanks for posting this. I'm doing some research on heads and this is something i didn't even think i would have to worry about. You're the man
glad you found the video helpful🤘🏼
Lindy tools makes an in-head piston cutter. They work great. Gives you the depth and radial clearance.
Aside from the miscalculation on the valve diameter to valve relief cut into the piston, which you already caught- you're checking PTV clearance with an uncompressed head gasket. Some gaskets will give you uncompressed thickness, some won't. Easy way is to measure the thickness with a good quality caliper before you begin. You'll lose the clearance difference of uncompressed to compressed thickness. Example: you measure a gasket as .038" uncompressed and its stated compressed thickness is say .026". Your PTV clearance when you measure the thickness of the putty/ play doh/ whatever you need to subtract the .012" you'd lose after the gasket was installed and compressed. Make sense?
yes, thank you for the information
It don’t make two 💩’s if you have 0.125” ptv clearance which is about what you need! I measure them with no head gasket and add the compressed thickness.... 😂😂😂. He needs higher compression and proper quench distance and custom spec cam to make it run!
Nice video, I am 74 and been rodding since the 60's. Just keep one thing in mind. We learn more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. It takes a humble person to admit a mistake. and you handled the issue in a positive way, job well done. We all have done similar things. Be proud, you do nice work.
Hey there, I had this issue once before. I put nuts on the head bolts half way down and used the old head as a jig. I used a slightly larger valve to get the clearance I needed and glued coarse paper to the valve. I put the valve in the guide, the head on the nuts so I could see under head and let the valve touch the piston. I put a drill on the valve and with a gauge I spaced the drill chuck from the valve guide. Once the chuck touched the valve guide I had the desired cut depth. Looked factory.
Don't worry, you did it right. Done this quite a few times. The amount of material removed from the pistons is very minimal, almost nothing!
Great job.
hell yeah… i aint stressin it lol thanks man🤘🏼
I was going to say this last video about the 2.02 valves. You NEED fly cut pistons with 2.02 valves. I don’t care what people say about running it and it working fine. No, you do it the right way
we do things the right way over here… for the most part 😂
Not with TFS heads, and with cams with low duration.
AFR makes a 185 Enforcer small valve head w/1.90 intake valve size which requires NO flycutting and a separate 2.02 version which would require flycutting on a stock SBF 5.0 HO piston to obtain proper PTV clearance.
Wonder if a 2.00 intake valve would have worked
does the 2.02 version not work because of stock rockers and pushrods cause i’ve been seeing a lot about 1.6 rockers
@@LowSlow5.0 Its the valve reliefs in the piston
Just ordered small valve AFR heads today.
@@AndrewNelson1985 I thought the valves could fit depending on the lift on the cam and the rockers. I was under the impression that with a mild cam and factory rocker, there was no contact.
Other problem with how you checked P-V clearance is you used hydraulic lifters and the Valvesprings that came on the heads, this will give you false measurements on P-V clearance and pushrod length, what I do is I’ll take the hydraulic lifter apart and install a solid shim under the pushrod seat so that it’s effectively a solid lifter just for the measuring process, hydraulic lifter with a good hydraulic roller spring will collapse skewing measurements fyi
Something to think about for next time
I disassembled the old hydro lifter and made it solid in the previous video.. it was solid during testing 🤘🏼
Braze a piece of carbide to a valve and use it to cut reliefs deeper, old school trick that takes a bit of time, can only do two pistons at a time by bringing it to tdc, tape the gap between the piston and bore bolt down the head with cutter in the guide, make a witness mark on the valve about .025 from the guide, using a drill, cut the piston until you reach that mark, verify proper ptv clearance, all good, rinse and repeat for all the pistons
I ran my stock shortblock 302 with promaxx 180’s. They’re 202 valves also. No fly cut needed. Worked flawless. I’m ready to see this thing hit the track!
Hell yeah.. hopefully everything runs smoothly … me too, need to get a dang truck and trailer.
Well lucky for you this guy didnt flycut his valves either.
If you see this. What cam are you running or did run?
I just ordered the same heads for my car, I Currently have a b303. Everyone is telling me that it won't work with this SBE
@@86foxbod I ran an E cam. It was close but it cleared. Promaxx heads. E cam. 150 shot. In my car with some mild suspension and good converter went 11.3’s at 116
@@killer86coupe awesome 👌 good to know! Thanks. That makes me feel better about my purchase... lol
I was taught in school that engine building is a different trade for a reason. So I outsource all my engine builds. But it does get tempting to build your own and see how it goes.
I used Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with 2.02/1.60 190cc. I had no problem with piston to valve clearance. Stock pistons stock bottom end. On my 93 Mustang GT. No where I found or read that said 2.02 intake valve are too big for stock 5.0 pistons.
Stock pistons done work well with 2.02 1.60 valves.
Double check the 1.72 roller rockers with the cam your using as well it makes the lift higher
yeah found that out the hard way lol
@@JovanMichaels 1.6rr could give you plenty of clearance
2.02 -1.60 valve heads worked fine on my stock bottom end with a B cam and 1.60 rockers
@@blueovalracing1582 b-cam isn’t a big lift cam even with 1.72s. Wasn’t sure what size cam he had and if it was 530”ish before 1.72s is going to be 570”which in general pushing it with stock pistons
@@rambo360g I understand I was just mentioning what I did to my car that’s all buddy thanks for the reply back though
Props for hanging in there and making it happen bro! What a job lol... Heads look sick though!
Yeah man lol and thanks bud 🤘🏼
That's it Use your Head and use whatever You have available and do it properly on a strict budget and do it right . Looks really good Thanks for the update . 🇺🇲🇵🇷🦊👍
thank you man.. i appreciate you checking the videos out 🤘🏼
It's always something. That's why trick flow tw heads are the only 2.02 head you can use with a bigger cam
It is always something 😂 oh well, we handled that 💪🏼
few things, and don't take it the wrong way. just trying to provide info to learn from.
1. when setting that valve lash, you spin with 1 hand and snug with the other. 0 lash isn't when you can't spin anymore. its when you feel resistance on the push rod.
2. for anyone ever doing piston/cylinder work like this, use grease around the piston edge to prevent shavings from going between cylinder wall/piston. wipe/vacuum out when finished. also coat cylinder walls with grease if you ever have to leave the engine open again like that. then wipe away before reassembly.
3. you keep saying "flycut" the pistons. that's not fly cutting.. they sell flycutting tools to use, but you'd have to pull the valve out of the cylinder head. what you did was clearance with a burr tool which is far from machinist accuracy. its on factory pistons so no biggie other than your engine may be slightly out of balance now. but as long as you had clearance requirement met which is 0.080" intake and 0.100" exhaust, you would have been fine.. valve relief doesn't have to match. i run a TFS head on flat top, non-TFS pistons with about a .525 lift. reliefs don't match, but i have clearance so it's fine.
Information is always appreciated 🤘🏼
Thank you so much for the helpful information. I'm building a 95 convertible doing alum heads, E303 cam on stock pistons. I'm super nervous about the upcoming initial startup. I didn't check PTV clearance but I probably should have. The heads I installed have 2.02" intake valves and 1.6" exhaust. The stock pushrods are 6.248" long and were too short for proper valve tip roller pattern/geometry, so I had to purchase 6.425" pushrods. I fabbed up a solid lifter to check pushrod length and used an adjustable pushrod to get the right length.
I've seen before taking an old valve and cut the valve so it looks like a cutter that's pretty straight forward slide it all together and hook a drill to the valve stem spin with light down pressure. Obviously using some method of restricting the depth is mandatory for accuracy. A coller with a set screw would be a good method. I'd think going to a slightly larger valve than your using such a a 2.05 if heads use a 2.02 valve. Most likely don't have a spare 2.05 valve so stop in a local speed shops they would probably have n an old unusable valve they had kicking around n give to you, it would work fine for this application,worst case scenario buy one cheap valve online, budget valves are just few bucks for just each and only need 1, that's probably the easiest way to get your hands on a valve. Also to avoid any shavings getting down in by the ring put the correct sized string in the gap and vacuum out the metal before removing the string get it as clean as possible but any residue that may get left will blow out exhaust aluminum is soft it shouldn't cause any damage but change the oil a couple of times for a good cheap measure.
Yeah that would be a more precise way of going about it.. cheers 🤘🏼
Thanks for the helpful information
Use modeling clay instead of Playdough. Playdough springs back a small amount and can give bad readings when you throw a caliper on it...I spread a thin film of oil on the valves so it releases easier, again making a clean reading.
helpful information, thank you🤘🏼
Knotching pistons like you did is just old hot rodder stuff. Way back in the 80’s NHRA didn’t allow modifying piston tops,BUT if the valve happened to hit the piston ,well, that was ok. I watched and maybe helped a racer create piston to valve clearance in tech(!) with inspectors there with an old valve and a hammer! The old “valve” was a piece of machined tool steel that fit the valve guide and was the exact diameter of the stock valve.
There's a guy in Illinois sales the tools to fly-cut piston. The look like valves with cutting blades on them and they go in your old heads and run off a drill. I do them all the time
Wow so glad I watched this I'm going borrow afr 185s and install on stock kcode 289 till my 331 is finished. Long story on kcode but now not going thru trouble of swapping heads because not cutting pistons. The motor from another project. Wanted to see how 271 hp 289 would run only swapping heads
sweet man ! Sounds like a cool little project, good luck 🤘🏼
It will be a night and day different. 289 ford heads are terrible
AFR makes a renegade 165cc head designed to run with stock pistons. Just FYI. They also flow more than the 185 and forcers. As far as flow. They sit between the 185 and forcers and the 185 renegades CNC.
The YT algorithm had me click this video. Way to go on the fly cutting. The only way to learn is to do it. 🤘
hell yeah man! welcome to the channel 🤘🏼
I have 202 valves in my edlerbrock heads and had to get my pistons flycut. This was years ago and it’s still good to go.
love that! 🤘🏼
Are those.040 over pistons? Looks like they have that stamped on them, so they’re not stock? Just wondering.
I had the same problem went to my local machine shop had cutters braised on a pair of valves and set the depth with a stop collar and feeler Guage worked great
hell yeah good stuff
I think I would Re-check the pushrod length to make sure it didn’t change from the head gasket being compressed
not a bad idea 🤘🏼
I like using the copper spray on as much gaskets as possible. I think its really good additive for your head gaskets.
Yeah got more copper gasket on the camera than the head gasket lol she’ll be alright tho
Way to get in there and make it happen!
It should definitely be worth the hassle in the end.
yessir you know the deal… we get things done over here 💪🏼
I did not hear if this was a hydraulic lifter or solid lifter engine but these checks should be made with a solid lifter to ensure the lifter isn’t bleeding off during the check.
I’d also use a compressed gasket although that isn’t as bad as a hydraulic lifter bleeding down and telling lies.
If you’re using a solid lifter variant in your application be sure and check with zero lash, but know that the lash you input will add clearance between this piston and valve.
Above all else I would advocate learning to use the degree wheel and dial indicators to make these checks at 10 degrees before top dead center and 10 degrees after top dead center DURING THE OVERLAP cycle that is actually 180 from true tdc.
I hope you dont intend on putting any substantial amount of boost, ask Richard Holdner how "flycutting" the stock pistons in his boosted sbf went
This is why the twisted Wedge design works so well with stock bottom ends
yeah i knew about the twisted wedge heads but im a sucker for the afr’s 😍
@@JovanMichaels Ms Parker out there playing head games lol 😉😉 you went from jalapeno spicy to straight Carolina Reaper
yeah dude things got out of hand quickly lol
@@JovanMichaels the enforcers are just chinese castings with afr parts in em.
Thanks for keeping it real. Don't worry about the haters!!! You did great keep it up
always man! worry about who? lol we aint going no where. I appreciate you checking out the videos man🤘🏼
Trick flow is the answer to all your issues.
This is why I used TFS heads. However, not bad, for a driveway mechanic. Good to see the progress, hermanito.
yessir💪🏼
Just ordered the afr 205 race heads can’t wait, just add a little valve relief to the piston it’s ok to do it a lot of people do it you have mechanical skills I’m sure you’ll end up just fine
yeah the process went pretty smooth.. we’ll see what happens 🤘🏼
Sorry about your problems man. This is something I was worried about on my 351
yeah no big deal.. we worked it out 🤘🏼
Before i finish the video I see whats about to happen stock pistons with 185 but I know you figured this out by now. Love the way the car turned out
appreciate it buddy 🤘🏼
You can run the 2.02 with out notching pistons only purpose is if your running a big cam with a lot of duration we run 2.02 with x303 and a 2.02 with trickflow stage 2
cool, we should definitely be good to go now then 🤘🏼
Dang....now they make enforcers with the 1.90 valves LOL they didn't at the time of the video.
But my 302 I'm go in Ng forged DSS pistons and the 2.02 195s and a off the shelf Howards grind I've been eyeing...
heck yeah man.. sounds rad🤘🏼
Good info , what serpentine belt are you using and what alternator bracket are you using ? I’m doing the same set up
moroso bracket. 35” belt i think
you might not have to have flycut those pistons at all. I didn't see you measure the thickness of the clay? All you need is between 80 and 100 thousanths of an inch of clearance. I saw you already have it running so props for being careful.
it wasnt the thickness that was the problem. It was the diameter of the valve that was overlapping the shelf of the valve relief. 🤘🏼
None of you asked him if he was checking valve to piston with a solid or solid roller lifter that plunger in that liter going to compress round .060 to .125 if it’s a hydraulic roller lifter same goes for a flat tappet
The lifter was solid.👌🏼
Good content man 👍 I'm subscribed, that doesn't happen often.
ayy this is just the beginning sir!!! thank you for the support 🤘🏼
Mrs. Parker sure is looking good. Keep them videos coming and keep up the good work sir
thank you my dude! I appreciate all the support 🙌🏼🤘🏼
You done great ! I got the same heads in as cast, a few variables, camshaft timing and piston type, incidentally your pistons look way down the bore @ TDC ? I checked mine twice sacrificing a head gasket bolted down to torque and it just touched the inlet valve pocket area but well inside my larger cut outs, I’m running a mild flat tappet street cam and I like solid lifters, motor was not in the car and I have a small milling machine but I’d have done exactly what you did and used a dremmel 👍
yessir.. sometimes you just got to get er done by any means necessary 🤘🏼
This was a common mod when these cars were new! Everyone I know fly cut a set at one time or another SEND IT
hell yeah love to hear that 🤘🏼
Edelbrock rpm performer are good for stock piston 1.60 - 1.90
What was your final pushrod length, I ordered the same head and am going to do the same clearancing as you did but just a different method, please let me know bud!!!
brother. I can not remember for the life of me. Not sure, but i think it will vary depending on cam size and other factors regardless.
They make a small valve version of these heads that work with stock pistons.
Damn brother I haven’t seen your vids in my feed in quite some time. The cars come so far my man. Fucking awesome. Gotta get myself going on my fox soon. You’re giving me the itch lmao
that sucks man.. i work hard to get these videos out and youtube for whatever reason doesn’t seem to push them to all my subscribers.. oh well, only thing i can do is keep going and hope one day the algorithm works in my favor 🤘🏼
Hey Jovan, with the push rods adjustments, it’s not until the push rod doesn’t spin anymore, it’s to where you can’t push the pushrod up and down anymore
appreciate the info homie 🤘🏼
Actually, it is until the pushrod just resists turning. Please confirm your information before you post. You should also use a solid lifter, or modify a hydraulic one to solid, by gutting it and putting washers inside of it, to figure your pushrod length.
@@MrCaribe65 only time you ever need solid lifters is for very high revving. I hope you have great luck with your pushrod adjustments doing it that way, not sure where you learned that from
@@MrCaribe65 actually your both kind of wrong. double check you information before being negative, you finger tighten the rocker while being able to freely spin the rod, then once you're ready to set the proper lash +/- per the manufacturer, you adjust till you start to feel the resistance on the rod then got 1/2 turn and check the lash. Typical lash 30-60 thousandths on a hydraulic. Aslo should be done in sequence of firing order and all intake first then exhaust.
@@sixoid4104
1. At 0 lash, the pushrod just begins to feel resistance to turning. That's what I meant.
2. When figuring out the correct length pushrod to use, you should use a solid lifter, or modify a hydraulic lifter so that's its solid. I never recommended solid lifters, and have built numerous valvetrains with no issues.
I realize this is 1 year late, but if you were to use the stock 1.6 or even 1.65 ratio rockers instead of a 1.72 ratio, you would be fine. Also, a little more clay would have been a good idea especially since you only went to 0 lash and did not preload the lifters at all, nor did you use low pressure checking springs. All you did was compress the lifter plunger with those springs. Your measurements were way off. You also need to take in account the amount that the head gasket will compress when torqued.
If you went with 16 rockers instead of 172 you wouldn’t have not have needed to do that. Smaller lift less likely to touch. What are your cam specs?
Same for me. Shop had to cut pistons for proper ptv. Also could not use my existing cobra valve covers. Would not clear rockers even with baffle removed. Not even close. Had to buy tall covers.
Any running videos of these heads?
yeah check out my 3 most recent videos 🤘🏼
Great stuff. Love your honesty!
appreciate it man🤘🏼
She wants you to work for that as oh wait she wants you to work for that HP. Lol Don't forget to paint the tops of those shocks looking a little rusty . Keep those great video coming
yessir lol defiantly making me work for it haha its all cool tho.. shes going to be a dream
Thanks for the vid. I'm in the same as you. I want the AFR 185 heads but I was worried they wont clear the reliefs. Now I might cut them as you did with a dremel. What tool tip did you use, you remember? Did it work out. I dont want the 165s, I want the 185s and I dont give a shit about the bottom end. Run it til it blows.😀 Are peps saying 1.6 rockers would of cleared? I doubt that.
i would just check your pvc and use a dremel if needed… and i got little porting bits off amazon, they worked great
@@JovanMichaels Thanks man. think I'm gonna go with the 165s, stock valve size.
Did only check that one cylinder? Shouldn't you have to check all of them? I'm just curious, cool video thanks for the info
im sure some people do.. but to my understanding you only have to check one.
Hey great video..im sorry But what cam are you running
Please show ur shallow thin walled socket u use to take plugs out when headers are in with header studs
They have AFR enforcer 185cc 63cc chamber 1.900 in. Diameter. Would they fit stock 5.0 pistons?
Yes, only 2.02’s require u to notch the pistons most time
Great video my friend keep up the good work
thanks buddy 🤘🏼
TYhere is a better way than that You can buy a Cutter that goes through the Valve guide It is a lot more precise.
They made a tool 20 years ago that made fly cutting pistons in the block a lot easier than a dremel and sandpaper.
Did you use solid roller lifters when you measured that, I have a couple of solid lifters just for that reason, Hydraulic lifters will collapse a tiny bit,
i did use solid lifters for the measurement’s🤘🏼
I have the 220’s no fly cut .674 lift cam at valves stock pistons
Liar
I think the springs only support about 550-600 lift smfh now I see how ppl get confused by miss information
220s on a 302 are you sure?
@@Bloodyjonny too many online giving bad information
Keep em coming bro!! She's gonna be nasty
we here for the long haul buddy 🤘🏼
Definitely keep all important holes taped, especially in FL, lizards make homes outta empty holes quick lol. Ask me how I know. Don't know if your in central fl but if you are American motorsports in Orlando is a great for on the shelf s/bbf and Chevy motors and better prices than the national parts stores for gaskets and stuff like that.
Nice, ill have to check them out
To hell with balanced piston weight! Pull the engine and install 11:1 pistons designed for those valves with 1 mm ring package. Now how thick is that head gasket? Without proper quench distance you’re AFR combustion chambers are rendered useless. Quench distance 0.030”-0.040”. Get this set up properly and with the right cam make some power!
Dude, I knew your problem when I saw the stock pistons. The 165 heads will work but not the 185. I have Probe forged flat-tops in my roller w/ huge reliefs to clear the 2.02 valve. A couple of tips- set zero lash on both valves w/ cam on lobe base. Looks like intake valve is on the ramp. Also fully torque the head in proper sequence to keep from warping it.
So these heads won’t work on a stock bottom end or is it a big lift cam, looking to add these heads to a stock bottoms end piston with TRick flow stage 1 cam
@@jj5519 The valve reliefs in the stock pistons aren't large enough for valve clearance with a stock 5.0L roller cam.
@@josephtravers777 so only the renegade 185 work with factory pistons, not the renegades?
@@josephtravers777 I have nkb 185s (same proheader castings) and 1.7 rockers and stock ho cam, no problems
fantastic video..how are those Enforcer Heads working for you
thank you
I've done these SBF's for a while, I use Fel-pro gaskets, but I use copper spray gasket maker on head gaskets, the heads come off & clean up easier. you should've only had to grid the intakes relief. but you need to polish it when your done grinding, 400 grit? needed to go to 800 grit, Good Luck
400 is fine
You should have kept the stock 1.6 rocker ratio and there would have been no issue . The 1.72 rockers increased valve lift . Or you could have ordered heads with the 194/160 valve package 2.02 intakes gain you nothing on a stock bottom end .
have 2.02 heads that flow just under (and another set) 310 no need for giant valves. Maybe a high rpm 4125 bore block or more might benefit.
Usually not worth the $
I feel like there's something else, only because I've contacted afr prior to purchase and confirmed with them that the 185s will bolt onto the stock ho engine with no interference, instead of deleting my comment from what I've gathered thru comments is that your running a bigger than alpha bet cam with 1.72s I see now.
Do you have these enforcer heads on stock bottom end pistons? I’m looking into these but didn’t know what Kind of lift he has. I have truck flow stage 1
@@jj5519 I have a stock 88 ho short block with normal rotating and stock cam with 1.7 rockers and I've not had an issue with clearance.
@@jj5519 also I think my total lift with the 1.7 on stock cam is like .456ish as I believe stock cam with stock roller rockers is .444. but I could be wrong about that as I'm going from memory.
@@Joebauers2505 do you have enforcer or renegade 185cc heads
@@jj5519 enforcers
typically you do this procedure without the head gasket installed fyi
good to know, thanks
Nice video but let's understand something you didn't fly to anything fly cutting is done in a mill with a fly cutter it is clean and cuts clean chips I was an aerospace machinist and build plenty of hot rods in race motors what year did was Dremel them with a pouring tool not the same hopefully you got them all around and clearanced and it will run great but sandpaper I would never touch in a boar a deburring knife or Deborah tool is much safer you leave no grit to wear out your rings and cylinder
I hate to be that guy… but you wouldn’t have that problem with trickflow heads… you can fit WAY bigger cams and not even be inside the valve pockets… I had this same problem with my AFR heads and i traded them for some TFS heads
very true.. but i just like the afr’s alot better.. the trickflows are nice too tho🤘🏼
trick flows have been the 5.0 go to head since the 80s. THey have come a long ways
So how have you been enjoying the 185s? If you had a chance to do it again would you go with a bigger head?
165-185 is ideal with the 302
I fly cut my flat top bbf pistons I run 10,000 rpm and no problem after 56 passes
Solid🤘🏼
Am I missing something, if the clearance is good after you turned the engine over through maximum lift. Why would you need to cut the pistons?
piston to valve clearance
I am in Florida also Lake wales area. Got to see others on here.
yessir🤘🏼
I’m not sure why you checked push rods with the old lifters if you were going to use new lifters
because you cant do the check with hydraulic lifters.. and i didnt want to disassemble the lifters i just paid $200 for
I always wondered what ''Fly Cutting'' the Pistons does to the Compression? Or if its even enough to matter?
you know you can warp a aluminum head by Bolting one end down and not the other, Your taking a chance.
I had to do the same to mine. I also ended up using a little thicker head gaskets
racecar shit… am i right lol
@@JovanMichaels yes sir!!! Lol
It should never be a point where the valves are opened and piston is at the top. Compression stroke the valves are shut and exhaust stroke there’s a chance of it hitting but it shouldn’t….the piston should be heading straight downwards.
piston chases the eh valve as it close.Guess you know that other readers may not
You're correct...I must've been buzzed when I wrote this lol.
Watch the Pistons man I've done it many times
Way to unbalance the rotating assembly. Nice.
It's a stock block from Ford....isn't balanced like you think it prolly is bud lol
So My 302 is actually a 347 now. I went w the scat pistons and crank aka rotating assembly. These heads should be solid for those right? Assuming I’m .030 over stock?
honestly im no professional man.. and every engine setup is different.. i would check ptv clearance and push rod length just to be sure.. good luck🤘🏼
why are the valve reliefs on the wrong side?
its faster that way
They make a tool to cut the pistons.
What cam are you running? Would 1.6 rockers clear the piston?
e303.. i have no idea, i recommended checking all your clearances