While I Can Never Call Gamera better than Godzilla, I can't Help but Admire Gamera Because unlike Most Knockoffs, rather than fading Into obscurity, Gamera Instead Evolved to Become distinct From Godzilla, rather than just copying his homework word for word.
Well Gamera was never a complete copy of Godzilla. And I would say the Heisei Godzilla series made him basically a copy of Godzilla more than any of the showa era Gamera films did.
I'm going to be completely honest, The Brave did a better job at making Gamera feel strong. He's only 30 meters and yet he and Zedus fighting is given this insane amount of impact and destruction.
The Heisei Godzilla films in my opinion are better than the Heisei Gamera films because I grew up with the heisei films and I just found Godzilla more entertaining with the fights and the humans figuring out how to defeat Godzilla. Edit: I also think the Heisei Gamera films took the idea that a certain human could communicate or have a linkage with a kaiju since Miki Saegusa was able to communicate with Godzilla and Godzilla Jr. Also keep in mind that the Gamera films introduced this in 1995 which was 6 YEARS AFTER IT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE HEISEI GODZILLA FILMS (1989).
The fact that nobody points out Gamera's reckless destruction in Guardian of the Universe (where it isn't even a plot point) is astounding to me. Like you pointed out, he can fly, but walks through the city to get to the baseball stadium with the Gyaos in it, thus killing a bunch of people for no reason. Then later it makes a big deal of Gamera saving those people on the bridge by taking a laser to the hand for them. This is inconsistent characterization for the sake of preserving a twist. And even after, Gamera does things like tear apart that building in the middle of the final fight with Gyaos for no reason. This is also because Kaneko really just wanted to direct Godzilla and prioritized the spectacle of cool shots over consistent characterization. Another example in Revenge of Iris when Gamera decides it's smart to blow up Iris in an explosion so big we literally can see it from miles away instead of just ripping out his organs or something. Not only did he pay no mind to the fact that this could literally kill all of those people he's trying to save, but all of the characters *should* be dead. This is literally the same kind of thing Man of Steel rightfully got lambasted for. I think it's because when people view fights and destruction scenes in kaiju movies, they view them simply as dopamine hits and not what they should be, storytelling devices (as done successfully in, for example, the original Star Wars trilogy, the Russos MCU films, Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla 93 and Destoroyah). Careful attention is brought to the character writing in those fights. Meanwhile, when people who tout these films try to criticize Heisei Godzilla's characterization, there's no actual inconsistent characterization, they're just moralizing. The point is that Godzilla is an reptile who was horribly mutated and understandably wants revenge on humanity, something made clear even in the original film. Godzilla's violent nature is a part of the story, they didn't accidentally characterize Godzilla as a rageful villain (even if a sympathetic one) when he's supposed to be a good guy. In the same way that Darth Vader in the original trilogy is a cold terrifying villain, even if made sympathetic and eventually spiritually redeemed in ROTJ. The Heisei Godzilla films have their flaws, I consider a couple of them ok or even bad, but especially in regards to Omori and Okawara's films, I think they're definitely better then Kaneko's, especially in the writing department. Don't even get me started on GMK. And again, thank you for sharing your sentiments on the fights, because I feel the same way. The Legion and Iris fights are so clumsy and underwhelming, and often with all of them you can hardly tell what's going on.
I always found it interesting how the Heisei Godzilla films were claimed to have all these problems that for the most part the Heisei Gamera films have to an even worse degree. For example some people say Heisei Godzilla can't be sympathetic due to him walking through cities and the reason doesn't matter. If that is the case then Gamera walking through cities instead of flying over everything is even worse. This is even worse when you consider that Gamera is able to sense where people are as shown when he saves Ayana. It wouldn't be as bad if it was just from film to film, but Gamea's character is inconsistent within the films themselves, and his lack of intelligence is staggering. You also forgot a more obvious point with Gamera easily being able to impale Iris with his hand. If it was this easy then he should have done it earlier. For me I grew up with the Showa Gamera films and I don't think I was ever as upset when watching a film as when I watched the Heisei Gamera films and more specifically Gamera attack of Legion. For the longest time I could not even comprehend what was wrong with the films. Which that is mostly due to the confusing nature of the films with them being poorly written, poorly structured, and making literally no sense. I don't have as many problems with GMK but it still has similar problems as the Heisei Gamera films, while having worse special effects than basically any Godzilla or Gamera film since the showa era. I think people are confusing a film being mysterious with being confusing and poorly made. The fact that the main character of Gamera 2 is never said what her job is or why she is the only person advising military leaders should say enough. Also if you plan on making a review of the Heisei Gamera films I recommend looking at a stream called "Writers Righting the Wrongs of Heisei Gamera Hot Takes" where it's basically Heisei Gamera fans spending 3 hours saying how I'm wrong with no real examples, while at the same time subtly insulting me, my video, editing, and youtube channel, and even hint that I am biased. Watching that will let you know what you are in for if you try and criticize these films, if you haven't already seen how Heisei Gamera fans are.
@@GSTE_ The criticism towards Heisei Godzilla's characterization clearly comes from this very anthropocentric moralizing stance where they feel the need to "punish" him for his "crimes" when he's an animal, that's not how it works (which is a part of the message of the film). Should Tilikum the Orca have been sentenced to death for killing 3 people? No, that's not our place, especially when his violent behavior was our fault. The solution was to find peace, which is what Miki wanted, especially since there's viable way to make that happen for the first time (BabyGodzilla), not kill Godzilla. "I think people are confusing a film being mysterious with being confusing and poorly made." You hit the nail on the head. Not only are inconsistencies created to to hide twists, but his mythologies often make no sense and are too vague. What is the purpose of the magatama and how does it work? Why is it that Ayana was the only one to bond to Gamera when others touched it before her? Why does she receive Gamera's wound when Gyaos lasers him, but not when he plummets to the Earth from space? It's never explained whether Iris was truly malevolent or corrupted by Ayana's hatred. If the situation with the Gyaos was so urgent to the point where by the time they made Gamera, it was too late for Atlantis to be saved, why the fuck did the Atlanteans dick around taking all the time to make a shit ton of Gameras only to waste them, now lying on the sea floor as corpses? Why didn't they use Iris to aid Gamera too? The guardian monsters backstories and the rules concerning the ghosts in GMK also don't make a lick of sense either. You did a good job pointing out another issue with GOTU and Legion: they really are poorly structured. They jump around, things just come and go. The government/military meetings and mythology exposition are often flat and dull. The haphazard attempt at an environmental message so late into GOTU made me cringe. And yes, the fighting strategies of Gamera are really stupid, especially in the fight with Iris. I'm very sorry you had to go through that. I'm familiar with this kind of toxicity, actually. In 2018 when I was big in the Instagram Godzilla community, I got incessantly dogpiled and stalked with aggressive comments for praising the Heisei Godzilla movies, including personal attacks towards Koichi Kawakita, often with no provocation. Any of my responses (mostly either trying in vain to argue in good faith or just blocking) they'd be reductive and flat out lie to paint me as a villain. They'd try to dictate the terms of the argument by patronizing me for my messages being "too long", because I actually gave examples instead of empty blanket judgement values. They'd claim I blocked anybody who didn't like the Heisei Godzilla series and refused to have discussion, when in actuality, I only blocked those that slandered Kawakita; I even had friends that disagreed with me on those movies. Someone even sent me photoshopped kaiju porn with me in it, and a meme telling me that the entire fandom hated me. I was 16 and dealing with some pretty rough shit in life too, and I have ADHD that was at the time undiagnosed. It's part of the the reason why, despite me still liking Godzilla, and I know the Star Wars fandom is worse in broad strokes, I'm still more hesitant to take part in Godzilla fan communities then Star Wars ones (tbf, it's also easier bc the stuff I love, the original trilogy, Darth Vader comics, Rogue One, are things that most love, whereas with Godzilla, while I share opinions on some beloved movies, I have some pretty hot takes). Now I'm getting into making video reviews that I've always wanted to do, Star Wars, Marvel, and Godzilla alike. And even if nasty parts of all of those fandoms come for me, I'm gonna stand my ground. Half the reason it got as bad as it did is because I engaged with them at all. My philosophy is, when I encounter bad faith, I block, ignore and move on.
@@LordVaderTyrannus I can understand the case for Godzilla being destroyed because of his threat to humanity, but so did the films as well. They presented two sides, one being a more sympathetic side to Godzilla and the other side trying to stop Godzilla forever to protect humanity. A perfect example of this which wasn't in the Heisei Gamera films is from Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 where Asusa talks to the military leader and after telling him that they can't use Baby Godzilla like bait. The military leader tells her "The men of G-force have a responsibility, they must rid the world of the threat posed by Godzilla, that is why they have got to go ahead with this plan. I'm sorry if you can't accept that." This shows how the films aren't just one sided like many people say, but instead bring up multiple view points for Godzilla which each one makes sense and why Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 doesn't have an actual antagonist. Also try not to use harsh words, thanks. But for your points I agree, but there are still many other problems. Such as why is the film called Guardian of the universe when Gamera can't even fly out of earth's atmosphere. Why did they think Atlantis created Gamera when the human characters literally say Atlantis was theorized to be in the Atlantic Ocean. Have you also noticed how every film has the human characters do things for the entire film yet nothing they do ends up being productive or affect the outcome of the films. You have Gyaos's reproduction talked about which basically leads to nowhere, you have Gamera and iris talked about which again leads nowhere. And you have Legion's plant talked about which doesn't lead to stopping the plants exploding or Legion itself. That sounds pretty messed up. The way I've dealt with people who like to argue about the Heisei Godzilla films is to basically keep the same tone as I am now. If you try and go to their level, or lower than them, then you will end up looking like the bad guy. But I think the most important thing is to do your own research. Through my research I've found tons of things no one talks about, such as how Koichi Kawakita basically predicted the success of Godzilla Minus one in the US. As well as other things like the budget of the Heisei Godzilla films being only about double the 70s showa films. Which from my research I also found Koichi Kawakita was highly respected and very kind to people he met, unlike what some people try to say. Being disagreeable in terms of art is very known for artists, but that doesn't mean they are mean people. There are many examples of people saying they got along with Koichi Kawakita during work, as well as even interviews saying he was good to work with. As well as many other things. Sure there were some people who didn't like him and thought he was hard to work with, but that can go for everyone, especially with a director of something. I think the best thing is to tell all sides of things and not just one side. Or else it will be a constant game of ping pong where one side says something that helps them and the other side says something that helps them without bringing up the context. Also just a helpful recommendation that someone told me a long time ago, if you want your writing to be easier to be read, try and split it up similar to how I am doing. But a good example of context on all sides is Ishiro Honda's quotes on Godzilla films. Ishiro Honda said he didn't like the Heisei Godzilla films, but he also said the special effects were complex and gave reasons for why they might have done certain things. Ishiro Honda also said he thought what they did with Godzilla by making him move like a human in the showa era was not good. Yet only Ishiro Honda's quote about not liking the Heisei era is brought up. I think making an argument without bringing up any of the flaws in something that you like makes it a weaker argument. This is why I plan on making a video criticizing the Heisei Godzilla films flaws sometime in the future.
Awesome discussion, my friends, and some excellent points. Oh, and Gamera 2: Advent of Legion, the often times so called "peak kaiju movie" can go and fuck itself. That's shit's a 4-5/10 at best.
@@vaggos2003 Well I wouldn't say that about Gamera 2. Especially when the other films in the series aren't much better, but also because a lot of it has to do with preference and ways to interpret the films. As much as I don't like the Heisei Gamera films, that is one of the reasons this video wasn't titled the Heisei Gamera films aren't good even though the films themselves have the most flaws I think any serious series of monster films I've seen.
That's mostly due to the excessive camera shake, making it appear something is happening when nothing is actually going on. An example being Gamera and iris's sky battle, or most of his fight against legion and iris.
See, the girl in Gamera 3 didn’t know her family was even killed until the visions of them appeared when she merged with Iris at the end of the film. and she immediately rejected him after that. So to say she didnt care isn’t true
Ayana was shown to not care about anything Iris did until the kid tried to stop her at the end of the film for some reason. This is shown when her mind is read and it is shown that Iris is killing people. She is also presented with the fact that Iris is killing people during it's fight with Gamera which she barely has a reaction. Her overall attitude throughout the film is that she doesn't care. Just like the other human characters decided to never mention that Iris killed her family in the first place, the human characters are written this way so that they can have people next to the monster during their fight.
@@GSTE_That’s because she didn’t know what he did go get to where he was until they merged at the end. She has no idea that Gamera is a hero and seeing her family be killed by him is a reasonable reason to hate him. Same thing in KOTM
@@RickDaSquirrel Like I said as one of my main points, for the story to make sense you need to assume almost everything. Of course it's not said Ayana knew Iris killed her family or people, but it is shown through her necklace which has a direct connection to the monsters, as shown with Asagi and Gamera in Guardian of the universe. Also Gamera is not a hero, his only goal in the films is to destroy the Gyaos. This is hinted at in the ending of Attack of Legion where they say if humans keep destroying life on the planet Gamera will destroy them. Gamera is inconsistent with his portrayal in these films. Gamera is shown multiple times to save individual people for no reason other than for a cool special effect. And then they have Gamera walking across cities through buildings (despite being able to fly) and then destroying the cities despite having a sense where individual people are. If anything Ayana was right with her conclusion about Gamera. Not only is Gamera a false protector of earth, he intentionally picks and chooses who to save, while carelessly destroying thousands of times as many people. Which is why I have a problem when people say Heisie Godzilla isn't sympathetic because he destroyed cites, yet these same people see Gamera walking through an entire city despite being able to fly and shooting his fire carelessly everywhere. Yet Gamera is made out to be sympathetic despite him actively destroying the earth through his existence.
@@RickDaSquirrel Also the films hint that this necklace allows a connection between the human and monster, which was shown when Ayana could know where Iris was and went to the specific spot Iris was going towards. Although not outright stated by the humans that Ayana knew Iris killed people, It was shown through her necklace that Iris was killing people, and after such actions were done Ayana fell asleep, similar to Asagi did in Guardian of the universe. Asagi also had a connection with Gamera and was able to know specific locations and actions of Gamera through this necklace, so it is completely reasonable using what was shown in the films that Ayana knew what Iris had done. Also Ayana not being told by the main characters that Iris killed her family is a huge plot hole, despite these characters being shown to know Ayana's family was killed. Your comparison to King of the monsters does not apply because Godzilla is actively saving the planet from monsters. His actions here only cause good things to happen at all angles. Heisei Gamera on the other hand was stated by the main characters who think Gamera is good as well, that his very existence is draining Mana, which in turn creates more Gyaos. So Gamera destroying the cities because of the Gyaos does not make him good when his existence and purposeful draining of Mana is what created these Gyaos in the first place. As well as the draining of Mana being what led Legion to earth which was stated by the humans. So that's my response to that, I know I already responded a while ago, but I wanted to respond with a more thorough explanation. If you have any counter points I would like to hear them since no one really has provided why they disagree based on what is shown in the films.
Alright. I'll start this off by saying I won't defend Gamera 2. I just didn't think that was the most well written movie, even if I do appreciate it for the clear passion put into it. I'm also more of a Godzilla fan than Gamera fan. 1. 2:05 They knew that Ayana had some control over Iris and were trying to do everything they could to convince her to stop what Iris was doing. Moving her would have just caused Iris to trample even more buildings. 2. 2:45 They utilize the monsters other weaknesses throughout the films. Most Godzilla films don't question how monster's beams work either. No one complains about that. 3. 3:53 literally said "maybe" right there... 4. 4:24 They give out all the information you need to understand what's happening. I never had any questions about what was happening while watching the films. 5. 4:32 How did you not recognize their house? 6. 5:03 The origins are left unknown as much as most of Gamera origins. No film explains how everything works or is required to. That takes the magic out of it. None of the Star Wars films ever explained how Lightsabers worked until we got some more information from comics years later. 7. 5:16 She constantly keeps us in touch with what Gamera's intents are throughout the movies during those moments. 8. 5:26 I thought she was clearly not herself anymore once she got in touch with Iris. 9. 5:49 Gamera is an imperfect character which is what makes for some of the most interesting ones. His neglect of human life while he's caught in the heat of the moment if fighting other monsters is literally one of the main plot points throughout that whole film. Gamera is shamed for his neglect of collateral damage. 10. 6:11 He absorbed more because if Iris was finished with Ayana, things would have gotten even worse. Drastic measures. Although, I wasn't a big fan of the whole sudden Mana introduction either. 11. 6:54 I don't even know what your on about here. I thought they were great and used very creative shots, and I was able to understand everything happening just fine. The Heisei Godzilla films did a even worse job at using creative camera angles. 12. 9:34 Easily woundable characters makes for a more tension filled experience, knowing how easily hurt our protagonists can be. Tougher version of a character does not equal better movie, or more interesting. 13. 10:43 I agree in terms of Gamera 2. The other films were utilized great. 14. 10:56 As I stated in in #9, Gamera is criticized for this behavior in Gamera 3. Huge part of the whole plot. 15. 11:48 Most of the shots show his legs tucked in, and on all the figures you look up, you can see his legs are tucked in. As for the shots suddenly show him change, just never bothered me and doesn't seem like a very good reason to not like the movies as a whole. That's about it from me. lol You had a few good points in here. Anything I didn't point out I agreed with. No films are perfect and flaws are good to point out.
1: If they knew that, what was the point of going to the city in the first place or trying to get on a plane. I could maybe understand the bird scientist staying with the girl, but the rest of the characters had no point being there except to talk about the monsters. 2: While you are right with the monsters lasers, other things like Gyaos supposedly being weak to light is never used against him. And monsters being weak to missiles is only used a few times in the film. Despite missiles actually being the only effective thing against them. 3: She also says they avoid light in the clip I put in right after, proving she still thinks they are nocturnal despite seeing them fly around during the day. 4: If that's so how did the bird scientist get on the island that she saved the kid. Or what happened right after the military shot down Legion's flying form. Or what happened when the military were going to fight the legion bugs two times in the film when they instantly cut it off. 5: Because I don't live there. How would I recognize a house that looks like most other houses. Why would this be left up to an assumption, they are literally the main characters adopted family. 6: True, but most monster films in general don't have a necklace that connects a person to gamera. There should at least be some explanation for how they work. 7: I was speaking about Guardian of the universe, although she barely does anything in Attack of Legion as well. But she does more things in Revenge of iris, although somehow she knows stuff about Gamera that it would be impossible for her to know. 8: She clearly wasn't herself for the whole movie. Even characters talk about her saying that "she used to be so sweet" or something like that. Most of the film even before iris's awakening she has a blank expression. 9: I personally don't have a problem with Gamera destroying stuff. But for the film to make him look like the good guy makes no sense. If he could see the girl inside a monster, how could he not see humans in see through windows or on the ground. It makes Gamera look like he was aware of what he was doing. 10: I don't think he absorbed "mana" in his fight against iris. I was referring to his final fight against legion. Which his absorption of mana was unnecessary due to Legion's face being broken, which was the only thing keeping back Gamera's fire breath. 11: I just don't like having either the camera on the ground or literally zoomed extremely close on the monsters. It makes it hard to see much of anything. Yes certain low angles do look good, but it's a balance, similar to GMK to make a fight look good. These angles make it so hard to see that you never actually see Iris's legs in most of the film. The heisei godzilla films use a wide array of angles. Perspective shots, low angles, close angles, high angles, wide shots, and angles behind the monsters. They do all of this while still being able to see what is going on for the most part. 12: I completely disagree. I would say making a monster strong and then having a monster be hurt by another monster makes the tension even greater. How would the tension be high when you know a few missiles could knock down these monsters or cut off their limbs. 13: Gamera did not utilize his fire breath in the films, which is why I think making it a ball of fire was a bad idea. You talk about having a monster be weak is better. But when a monster could end a fight, but chooses not to, that cuts all tension. Gamera could easily blow up every monster he fought with a blast of his fire at close range. Also how did the other films show Gamera's strength, or his combat ability in the sky. Literally most situations in these fights could have been solved if Gamera remembered he could fly. But due to the budget they mostly have the monsters doing nothing. 14: I was talking about his combat with other monsters, but that also goes for him destroying cities as well. Literally gamera walks right through a city in Guardian of the universe despite being able to fly. 15: I literally showed most of the scenes where he flies. And what happens is smoke comes out of his knees. And then what? What happens to his legs or arms. Gamera going into his shell was what made Gamera look more than a regular monster suit in the original films. It also added cool things to the fights, like gamera trying to tuck in his arms after being impaled. But these films despite having about 10 or more times the budget of those films, don't do that. They also shoot smoke out instead of the cool fire the original gamera shot out of his shell. I'm not just a monster fan, I like Gamera about as much as Godzilla. Which is why I care if they make Gamera weak, or not have good fights. Or when they remove key parts that made the original gamera. Otherwise you just have a flying Godzilla. Yes no films are perfect, but I haven't seen films with problems like these before.
@@GSTE_ 1. They had to go to the city to find Ayana, and then by the time they found her, all the planes are closed down. Ain't no airports being open when there's a giant monster attacking. 2. Sure, but they did take advantage of the fact that the Gyaos was sleeping during the day to attempt to kill it. It's also noted that they get stronger as they grow. 3. They were still small at that time. 4. I already said I wasn't going to defend Gamera 2. I thought that film was weak in the writing department. 5. I recognized it immediately and thought "oh nooo..." They showed the scenery around the house several times. 6. And most sci-fi films at the time didn't have laser swords like Star Wars. Didn't need an explanation. I understand wishing there was an explanation, but that doesn't make the film bad. 7. They tell us Gamera can tell people his thoughts. The necklace allowed her to feel his emotions, always. 8. She had a grumpy persona yeah, but the killing of people didn't happen till after Iris took her in the first time. 9. I understand criticizing that shot, but I felt the rest of the movie did a great job at conveying it's thoughts. 10. Yep. Gamera 2 wasn't my favorite. 11. The films had more variety in their shots than I think you give them credit for. The Heisei Godzilla films are just as guilty of strange close up shots. A lot of people also weren't a fan of the wide shots, which the Gamera films actively tried to avoid, because they provided little scale. 12. Here, one of the reasons Godzilla Minus One was so great was because they had a chance at killing Godzilla. Godzilla was not indesctructable. I understand prefering a stronger Gamera, but a weaker Gamera does not make that intrepretation bad or the movies bad. 13. Gamera clearly has a hard time hitting moving targets with his fire breath. In Gamera 1, his final blow is with a good fire breath, I thought he utilized it well. The same could be said for the later Heisei Godzilla films. Why doesn't he just use his heat spiral ray sooner instead of holding out till the end of the film? 14. So was I. He get's too absorbed for his hatred for the Gyaos that he forgets about the people he tries to protect in the first place, which is why there's always people that wan't him dead throughout all the films. 15. That was one instance you showed, also in Gamera 2, we see his whole arm change shapes to accomidate for his land form. Again, you can prefer the other versions of Gamera, but that doesn't make this one bad. I'm not going to deny that these films lacked some of the cool aspects of the Showa Gamera, but none of these features made Gamera 1 and 3 bad films imo. Also these films had a smaller budget than the Godzilla films, so I don't understand.
I would also like to add to the tension part. Part of what makes weaknesses add to tension is not knowing whether or not a character is going to make it out alive. If characters are super OP all the time, you have no doubt they'll make it out, and ultimately just adds less tension.
@@duncandonuts5268 1: Like I said in the video, there exists a thing called a car. If they wanted ayana to meet iris so much why not just drive over to it instead of standing there for 20 minutes. 2: True but after that one attempt they give up completely, despite Gyaos sleeping in an easy to hit spot. 3: Literally Gyaos's first scene is him flying around during the day. An animal avoiding the light would wait until after sundown. 5: They showed a lot of houses in the films, that doesn't mean I can recognize any of them. 6: There is a difference between already having an established unique thing in a series because for them that is normal. And they don't need to explain anything to the audience. But for people to go from living normally on earth, to having a monster that can fly around, shoot fire, dig underground, fighting another monster that can shoot a light beam, I do expect them to ask some questions. Similar to how the original Gamera films asked questions about the monsters in order to find their weakness. 7: I don't recall Gamera being able to talk to people through the necklace. Of course you have Asagi telling gamera to run, but that doesn't really mean anything. 8: So your saying the killing didn't start until she got the power to do so. Ok. 9: I don't know what this point means but ok. 11: More variety?, literally most of the shots are from the ground or right up in the monsters. I showed most of the angles used, those aren't creative, they are just used to cover the fact there is no background. Because when there is a background like when Iris stabs Gamera, they make sure to have at least decent angles. The Heisei Godzilla films have angles with the monsters shooting their fire right at the camera or past it, where the heisei gamera films for the most part use side angles in order to make the animation easier. They also cheap out on stuff happening in order to save money. Examples being it cutting from Gamera's mouth glowing to Gyaos dodging the fire ball, or Iris blocking Gamera's fire balls. Or when Gyaos 1995 sees Gamera flying in the sky and they cut to a scene of Gyaos already chasing after him. The camera work and scenes aren't done well and feel more like multiple separate scenes put together into once fight. Where the Heisei Godzilla fights feel very connected, despite certain scenes being recorded at the end or beginning of production. 12: I haven't seen Godzilla minus one yet. But there is a difference between having a stand alone movie like shin godzilla where a monster can be affected by missiles. Because Shin Godzilla was affected by missiles, but I don't think that affected the movie. Comparing that to having a monster fighting other monsters where they try their best to destroy them, but missiles are more effective. I think that does make Gamera and the monster he fights less intimidating. Similar to how Legion's bugs could be taken out more easily than some real life animals. Yet they were able to knock Gamera down and cause him to bleed. 13: The red spiral heat ray is completely different from Gamera's normal fire breath. I'm not saying Gamera needs to use his stomach beam every time in a fight. Because he didn't even need to use that in Gamera 2. The red spiral heat ray can only be used after Godzilla gets enough energy. Which happened after Rodan died, and Godzilla absorbed SpaceGodzilla's energy. But as you see it still took multiple blasts in order to charge up the fire breath to actually start hurting spacegodzilla. In fact SpaceGodzilla is the perfect example to compare to Heisei Gamera's enemies because he is able to reflect Godzilla's atomic breath. Heisei Godzilla seeing that he could reflect it, used it in ways SpaceGodzilla wasn't expecting, such as when Godzilla was falling or already on the ground. Unlike Heisei Gamera who tries to shoot fire once or twice extremely far away, and then grabs onto the monster until getting stabbed. Gamera should be incredibly dangerous up close, due to his fire breath, and the film makers should have accounted for this instead of having Gamera present zero threat despite him being capable. 14: That wouldn't match his actions in Guardian of the universe where he protects the people. If he really hated Gyaos (which the films don't say) then he wouldn't have cared about the humans. They try to do a similar thing in Gamera 3 where a kid says Gamera saved him despite the only thing happening was that Gyaos shot a laser at Gamera's hand. Showing nothing, especially when Gamera continues to explode the entire city instead of flying after Gyaos in the sky. Also Iris is easily more dangerous than a few small Gyaos, yet he decided to save the girl for some reason. Also you brought up why didn't Godzilla use his red spiral heat ray which I already explained. But the real question is why didn't Gamera impale Iris with his hand if he could do that the entire time. Instead they chose to have him grab onto iris until he got stabbed, which he has done in all three of the films. 15: That is not the same thing as Gamera coming out of his shell. I did not say it makes this Gamera bad, but it does make it not faithful to what Gamera is supposed to be, that being a giant turtle. Also that transformation of his hand literally makes no sense. They only added that in the film to copy Destoroyah's flying form. Especially since Gamera's flying form was completely normal in Guardian of the universe. I'm not saying that these films are bad, but for me all of these things are a combination of why I don't like these films. Otherwise I would have titled this as The Heisei Gamera Trilogy is Not Good. I understand people like different things in films. Also I was talking about the Showa Gamera films. The Heisei Gamera films had 10 times or more than the budget of most Showa Gamera films. Yet the early showa gamera films did even more things with Gamera than the Godzilla films of the time, despite films like Son of Godzilla and Destroy all monsters having a budget of around 200 to 260 Million JPY Where the first Showa Gamera film had a budget of 50 Million JPY. Less than 5 times the amount of the Showa Godzilla films. Yet they were still very similar in quality. With the 2 first Heisei Gamera films having about half the budget of the Heisei Godzilla films. Yet they do even less than Showa Gamera did with Gamera.
@@duncandonuts5268 I don't agree with that. Heisei Godzilla probably the most OP Godzilla was put in far more uncertain situations than Heisei Gamera. Such as his brain being exploded, him being impaled by Biollante and passing out in the ocean. And him being cut in half and dragged around by Destoroyah. But then melting down and dying. Also having Destoroyah kill Godzilla jr.
Finally a video where the flaws are addressed instead of over praising the films. The Heisei Godzilla series is my favorite Godzilla series and a lot of people I know like to diss on those films, but praise the Heisei Gamera trilogy. While I do think the Heisei Gamera trilogy does have impressive effects and good kaiju and model designs, the series is definitely overrated and people will often overlook the flaws you addressed in the video.
Thanks, If you know of anyone who would be interested in this video I'd appreciate it if you recommend this vid. Also yeah I never heard anyone talking about any of these points, they only become critics when talking about the Heisei Godzilla films. Also ignoring flaws in the showa or millenium era for doing the same things they complain about the heisei godzilla films.
There is some explanations about Gamera's behavior. Director Kaneko in one of the behind the scenes making video explained that when Gamera is sharing a link with someone, he's more empathetic in protecting individual humans. But when not connected to a human, he's purely focused on killing Gayos with an ends justify the means attitude. This is why in GOTU he rampages because Asagi had not joined with Gamera yet. When Gamera used the Mana beam attack on Legion, it's implied he hates using that ability precisely because it drains the earth but he felt desperate to kill Legion. 2. He rampages through the city because he's limited on plutonium energy to fly. That's why he flies to sea instead of pursuing Gayos because he went to recharge which they state in the movie (his low energy would also explain why he was tearing into the baseball dome instead of just fireball the two unconscious Gayos). Also we don't see people killed by Gamera in his rampage nor is a death toll mentioned, so it's implied Gamera only caused property damage in GOTU. 3. The missiles did damage to Legion because they were guided to do precise damage to her weakest parts of her limbs. Earlier she was moving through a massive tank bombardment like it was nothing. 4. Heisei Gamera is definitely less intelligent than Showa or the Brave. If his opponent counters his fireballs, he assumes automatically that his Fireballs are useless without thinking critically why his fireballs are not working or the context of the enemy countering his fireballs. 5. Alot of people don't know this, but the original Gamera creator hated Kaneko and the Heisei films. GOTU was the only one he attended and refused to work on the 2nd and 3rd movie precisely because of the dark tone and making Gamera unlikeable. 6. I myself have kinda of soured my opinion on Kaneko. He made really pornographical movies before Gamera and he's really creepy in the making of when he describes Ayna feeling hot from Irys and her getting wet in the rain as sexy.
I think a lot of statements made by the Heisei Gamera film makers don't make sense or match the films. For example turtles not existing in the series. But as for your point, Gamera's connection to Asagi was ended in the first film. Gamera was shown to fly to the exact spot where the Legion hive was. Gamera did not do this in the previous film instead choosing to walk through an entire city. Gamera had no connection with humanity when he saved Ayana so that proves that theory wrong. The humans stated in Gamera 3 that Gamera absorbing mana is what summoned Legion to earth in the first place. They were talking about before the events of Gamera 2. It is never mentioned that Gamera was low on energy, if that was the case he would not have been able to use his flying ability. Similar to what was shown in Gamera 3 where Gamera kind of walks away instead of flying like in Gamera 2. Gamera was shown to be able to use his fire breath in the first scene he was shown where he blows up Gyaos when he rises out of the water. So that doesn't really add up as well. Tank fire is very different to Missiles, at least in these Heisei Gamera films. Tank fire was shown to make Gamera roar, but Missiles were shown to knock him out multiple times in the series. I personally don't really understand why people say these films are the best in the Kaiju genre, since the films don't even succeed in doing what they set out to do. For example look at any of the Showa Gamera things. Despite a lot of it looking low quality, they manage to do more creative things with Gamera than any Godzilla film ever did.
@@GSTE_ He saves Ayana because she called out to him for help. Also he was trying to form a link with her beforehand (that's why Asagi is begging Ayna to stop fighting Gamera and that he's not her enemy). The ending of Gamera 3 implies that Gamera has formed a link with Ayna. Also Gamera reformed a link with Asagi a second time in Advent of Legion (and then severed again after he revives before his final fight with Legion). The military state that Gamera was low on plutonium and retreated into the sea for recharging after the first rampage (which in the next scene you see submarines try to track him and then he flies out of the water).
@@GSTE_ ruclips.net/video/iy0voePQ-Lc/видео.htmlsi=G3RQgnEhKyz6oYiK 48:03 They state he's low on energy for being dormant and explains him charging is causing local electricity problems in seto inland sea.
@@Darthzilla99 Ayana wasn't really shown to call out to Gamera for help, and Gamera was never shown to try and link with Ayana. Asagi made that statement because Ayana was connected with Iris and she was trying to get Ayana to realize it wasn't good. I'm pretty sure Asagi says she no longer has a connection with Gamera in the second film. Gamera being able to use his full flying form shows he was not low on energy at the time. He could have been drained after flying for a little bit, but he could have used that energy to either walk through the stadium or use his fire ball. This especially doesn't make sense when Gamera was shown minutes before being able to walk through buildings and be able to quickly react to Gyaos right after rising out of the water. It's mostly just a lack of consistency that makes these films confusing as well as relying on assumptions instead of clear visual or verbal examples.
Even after listening to the flaws of the movies, I personally still think they are better. Personally I have always found the 90s gamera movies a 100x more enjoyable than the sluggish and overextended 90s Godzilla movies. I kinda just crack it down to how I felt after following both continuities. When I finish a heisei godzilla rewatch, I feel like I just got strapped to a chair and witnessed a steam of rewashed films with a ending that should make me feel something. When I finish a gamera rewatch I actually feel like I watched a story with a beginning, middle, and end that leaves me with chills and some satisfaction. I think most of that has to do with the better tone shifts and shorter run but that’s just me.
Well this video wasn't exactly to make one series better than the other. Although I do think the heisei godzilla films are better due to a lot of the points made in this video. Yes pacing is a problem with the heisei godzilla films, mostly with the fights at times. But I think the amount of things they have the monsters and humans do makes up for that. For me after watching the heisei gamera films I didn't even know what I watched, also due to points made in this video. Where the heisei godzilla films have a clear plot, with simple characters doing good with what they were going for. But it mostly comes down to preference at the end of the day.
As much as I love the Heisei Gamera trilogy I can’t help but agree with you. These films are not perfect and get way too over praised too much. Kind of like how Kong Skull Island gets too over praised especially since I don’t like that film in the Monsterverse. Although the Heisei Godzilla films aren’t perfect either they still have great moments despite their flaws. Even though I think the Heisei Gamera films are better than most of the Heisei Godzilla films and are some of the best kaiju films ever. Sadly there are scenes that haven’t aged well especially the use of green screen and cgi which are noticeable. Great job on this video. We definitely need more videos like this because it does annoy me when people over praised something and don’t look at the flaws.
Yeah my main reason for making this is due to people only becoming critics when it comes to the Heisei Godzilla films. Looking over the showa and millenium films completely, as well as the heisei gamera films. An example being Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla where Godzilla's tail rips in one scene. But in the showa era there is a scene from Godzilla vs Hedorah where the suit actor's head breaks through Godzilla's neck during a close up on Godzilla's neck.
Welp, this video is officially part of my "videos I wanted/anticipated" playlist which is in my youtube profile alongside other playlists of mine. Feel free to give my playlisys a look if you wish.
@@GSTE_ I do actually agree with a lot of your critisisms with the films (tho I should finish my rewatch of your vid before making my opinion of it), tho in this playlist I do put videos based on their concept (as in, if their idea is an idea I wanted to see explored in a video in general) (case in point, I wanted to see someone point out the flaws of the aheisei Gamera movies and I got just that) and whether or not the execution of said idea is good is a whole other thing. Just a clarification. Tho again, I actually agree with a very good chunk of your critisisms, so I'll most likely enjoy the vid.
Glad to see somebody mentioning the Flaws of the Heisei Gamera Trilogy, I'm so sick of Everyone Putting this Trilogy on some Pedestal and treating it like it's the Godfather, I find the Heisei Godzilla films way better, just because they aren't filled with Plot Holes and bc Godzilla is a way better Character than Gamera
In my opinion I don’t really like Gamera as much as Godzilla I don’t hate gamera i’m just not a fan of him as Godzilla I still wanna see Godzilla vs gamera but I’m pretty sure that will never happen
Thank you! I'm so glad I wasn't the only one with problems with the Heisei Gamera trilogy! Most of your points were the same as mine: some of the characters felt flat or confusing, the whole mana plot point in Gamera 3 felt completely out of left field, Gamera himself not being nearly as fun or interesting as in the Showa era, the humans surprisingly not trying to find ways to beat the enemy monster/exploit their weaknesses, and so on. I do feel the point about Gamera being a "villain" was exaggerated, but I will say it is contradictory writing-wise to have him not caring at all about collateral damage yet saves Ayana (the sole cause for Irys in the first place). My personal thoughts on the trilogy is that they're average at best, the effects are the strong point, but the writing and story overall is a mess with many plot holes or isn't structurally sound. I do understand why people love the trilogy, however I'm not one of those people. The third film being my least favorite kaiju film in general due to how it infuriates me anytime I watch or talk about it.
Just finished watching the trilogy and I have to say, I do believe these movies to be some of the best in the genre, with most of the Heisei Gamera movies being better than most heisei Godzilla movies, with the exception of Vs Destroyah, vs MechaGodzilla and vs SpaceGodzilla in my opinion. I do agree with a lot of your points tho, I don't think they are too bad but there is some very valid criticism. Showa Gamera wasted little time in showing action and Gamera, while Heisei there's barely any time with Gamera or monsters at all. It is true that at least the human drama is interesting in these movies, but for a movie with Gamera in the title, I think I could use seeing more of it. The action is also pretty lackluster, the best one was definitely vs Legion while doing that slide thing, but with how little time we have with Gamera, even the climax with vs Iris felt underwhelming bevause of how little they actually fought. Godzilla's enemies and even Gamera's previous enemies would last way longer, having multiple rounds of long fights. Could use better clarity with the story and whatever mana is as well.
I don't really think the human story is done well. I think the Heisei Godzilla films characters are done well even though their overall plotlines aren't complex. But the Heisei Gamera films are too complex and don't have the characters make logical choices or have a real story that has to do with the monsters or point of the film. The only real benefit of the Heisei Gamera films is the down to earth feeling some of the characters and way they show the characters have. I feel like the Heisei Gamera films basically took almost everything from the Heisei Godzilla films except did them worse. The only exception being that sliding scene you pointed out which I think was based on SpaceGodzilla hovering around Godzilla during the final battle which I think Gamera 2 showed it off better. I think a lot of the problems with the films is the creator not really thinking about if things make sense. And I think that is shown in the creator's statements made after the making of the films, such as "turtles not existing in the series" despite literal evidence in 2 of the 3 films. Such as the humans literally calling Gamera a turtle or models of tortoises. I can see why people like the Heisei Gamera films, the humans feel down to earth and the monster scenes look realistic for the most part. But the films just don't make sense, from the human characters to the monster scenes. And while the monster scenes might look good at times, they don't really have much of substance due to a lot of things I mentioned in my criticism. I personally think the Heisei Godzilla films have a lot of problems as well, which is why I am working on a criticism of those films.
@@GSTE_ I do agree, though I feel like the Gamera films are easier to watch and make the consequences of a Kaiju in your country a lot more apparent. Like, Godzilla films would make me waste time with something I don't care about, but the Gamera one would at least mane me follow a semi-decent character having a somewhat interesting plotline. I just wish we had way more Gamera action, man
@@arrestedsolidyhe77sp That's true, the Heisei Gamera films focus more on the impact on humans. But they don't really succeed at that since none of the characters they show are well done. A good example of having impact with human characters is Godzilla minus one. I think there are a lot of better things to watch in terms of story and characters than any Kaiju film. The only exception I would make is Ultra Q which is one of the most consistently interesting Kaiju media. I would say if you want a deep story and amazing characters there are tons of old shows which have just that. But I think the Heisei Godzilla films succeed at making the story and humans relate in some way to the monsters and Godzilla. I don't really know what to say about the Heisei Gamera films being easier to watch, but something interesting I've seen with everyone who has watched the Heisei Gamera films or is a fan of them has no idea about key points in any of the films. Which that is one of the reasons why "turtles not existing in the Heisei Gamera films" has been spread around by Heisei Gamera fans. I think the Heisei Gamera films are almost unbearable to watch if you want to understand what your watching. For example who is the lady in Gamera 2 who is one of the main characters. The film doesn't explain this and all of the films have these problems.
@@GSTE_ yeah, I agree with what you say, I do still believe I can overlook some of these things because I can overlook showa gamera abd godzilla lmao, but yeah, it is not going to be a complete and utter masterpiece as Minus one is. Wouldn't put it in the top 10, not by a long shot, but probably a top 20 seems fair. I do also appreciate how violent these films get over the previous Godzilla ones. Need to watch The Brave and the anime to get a final view on gamera as a whole, Ultra Q looks really interesting! Been watching some Ultraman episodes, but I am tempted to skip to Ultra Q, would you recommend? I don't like skipping things
@@arrestedsolidyhe77sp Well it depends on what you like. I grew up with Ultraman a little bit, but I don't really think it holds up that well and it's extremely repetitive and kind of boring. Ultra Q is basically the twilight zone with Kaiju, it's very weird and strange, but considering you think the Heisei Gamera films are pretty good I think you might like the mysterious tone of the series. But all I can say is that I thought it was pretty good mostly due to every episode being different, which helps if one or two aren't that good. But I wouldn't say Godzilla minus one is the best Godzilla film either, it has the best human story but it's Godzilla part is below what the average Godzilla film was able to do. I also would say having confusing films in general don't really make for great films. But I know a lot of people like atmosphere more than substance or if things make sense. Personally I don't think the Heisei Gamera films hold up in most ways, other than the special effects in Gamera 3.
Someone compares GxK to Minus One Kaiju Fans: "YoU cAn'T cOmPeRe gXk tO mInUs oNe cUz tHeRe dIfFeReN'T mOvIeS" Someone compares The Heisei Godzilla Era to the Heisei Gamera Trilogy Kaiju Fans: *Silence*
They are mostly silent because they were the ones to compare the Heisei Gamera films to the Heisei Godzilla films first. So my bringing up Heisei Godzilla is actually a necessity due to false information provided by many people in the past.
@@Godzilla-jr5gi you have to understand, they like Heisei Gamera and Showa Godzilla. This means any criticism against it is objectively wrong. They also don't like Heisei Godzilla, so they will use handpicked quotes, objectively false statements, and say things are bad for these films, but completely ignore it when it's done even worse in a film they like. An example is how Ishiro Honda is known for how he doesn't like the Heisei Godzilla films. Yet they don't even say his other quote on the Heisei Godzilla films. "I don't really have a positive or negative opinion about them. The special effects technically are very sophisticated, but the films lack imagination. It seems as if all Toho is trying to do is show things being destroyed. I don't fault the members of the production department, though, because I know that that is what Toho's executives are demanding." Also a reminder this quote was before Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 even came out, with Ishiro honda passing away before the film released. Yet people use this quote to insult the later Heisei Godzilla films when Ishiro honda was talking about the films from 1984 to 1992. That's very different from Ishiro Honda thinking the heisei godzilla films are bad. But since it goes against their points that the Heisei Godzilla film's special effects were bad, they only handpick certain quotes to build their case. Also because they like Showa Godzilla they don't mention how Ishiro Honda did not think humanizing Godzilla was good, with him saying... "[Humanizing Godzilla] To me, what happened was not acceptable. Personally, I didn't want to do it, but the company demanded it. When you have to do it, then you have to it... I did the best I could with it, and Mr. Tsuburaya did his best as well. It was about that time Godzilla movies started to move toward a younger audience. [But] the fact that they decided to make Godzilla act like a human, it was not a good decision... This showed off the fact that it was a man in a suit. Bad idea." I personally don't agree with Ishiro Honda about everything, but if people are going to use his quote against the Heisei Godzilla films, they should also use this one when talking about showa godzilla. These people also try and paint Koichi Kawakita in a bad light, also using specific quotes that fit their points. While ignoring 90% of the quotes that put Koichi Kawaita and his work as high as the showa era's special effects director. I think when talking about films you have to be willing to point out the flaws even in films you like.
GxK not being able to be compared to Minus One is just a coping mechanism for people who liked GxK there is no reason why you can't compare the two films
Your argument about the camera shots kinda baffled me. The heisei Godzilla movies never employed any kind of interesting camera work and relied on flat wide shots. The Gamera films use a much larger variety to convey the scale of the monsters and add to the action
I just saw your comment now, so sorry for the late response. The Heisei Godzilla films did use a tons of creative camera work, which was lacking the showa Godzilla series. Examples of this are point of view shots from the monsters, missiles, or tanks. Low and high angles, close ups, and shots behind or in front of the monsters. And some wide shots which show the city and monsters very well. The Heisei Gamera films did not use as much variety, their shots consisted of close ups, extremely low angles which didn't show much, and a rare shot which showed the monsters. These angles don't show the scale of the monsters, which is why you don't hear people talk about how these films made Gamera 40 meters tall which is half of his stated height. A good comparison is Godzilla vs Destoroyah's opening scene which uses similar angles to Gamera 3, yet Godzilla vs Destoroyah has Godzilla be clear to see in almost every scene.
@@GSTE_ idk I just personally feel that the shots of the heisei Gamera films had more purpose. There’s other stuff I could go into like how i personally feel the characters of the Gamera films were more developed and interesting or how the Godzilla films in my opinion began to stagnate. But I’d say it would probably be better to agree to disagree
@@someidiot62 I would actually say the random low angles or camera shaking don't really have a purpose, other than to hide what is going on. I think the characters are made more down to earth, but their actual stories, motivation, and what they actually do in the films make no sense. The characters are not even close to being developed, for example the lady in Gamera 2 isn't even explained who she is, what she does, or how she has the power to advice military leaders. And the same goes for many different characters. You also have the fact that most of the characters are forgotten about by the end of the films. The Heisei Godzilla films started off stagnant in terms of characters and story, with Godzilla 1984 and Godzilla vs Biollante. They got kind out of hand in Godzilla vs King ghidorah but leveled out in Godzilla vs Mothra. Then the story and characters were at their best in Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2. The story quality went down a little bit in SpaceGodzilla but went almost up to the same level as MechaGodzilla 2 in vs Destoroyah. I think it's fine to disagree, but I'm just sharing what I think about the films.
Well I would improve a lot with both the story and monsters. The first thing I would do is get rid of Gamera's flying wings. They are obviously just a copy of Destoroyah's flying form and looks goofy for a turtle. I would have Ayana's connection to Gamera be explained both visually and verbally. I would have scenes go from one thing to another more naturally also with visual or somewhat subtle verbal explanations. I would have Gamera's eyes not so close to the front of his face, and I would have him not be extremely wide. I would give him a smaller head, hands, and more defined features. This would have him look his actual height of 80 meters with or without buildings next to him. I would create much smaller miniatures that are properly lit. For the camera angles I would use multiple types, such as the ones used in the heisei godzilla films. Shoulder level, hip level, and at times ground level shots all aimed up at the monster to make them look tall. I would also use point of view shots such as in the heisei godzilla films, for things such as planes, tanks, buildings, monsters, and helecopters. I would also use another technique from the Heisei Godzilla films where the monster shoots their laser or fire directly at the screen. I would create a partial suit for Gamera which can have it's arms go into it's shell, as well as it's head. It doesn't have to be a full suit mainly just a little bit of the shell and a gamera arm or head. I would use whatever the original gamera films used for Gamera's fire, only using smoke where the fire makes contact with the ground. I'd give Legion and Iris defining features in their faces, giving them a mouth, eyes, teeth, and basic structure in their face in order to make them as identifiable as Gyaos or other Heisei Godzilla monsters such as Biollante or Destoroyah. Speaking of Gyaos I would have him be weak to the sun, having it melt off his skin with blood or at least making him red. For Gamera I would give him his original fire breath, or at least giving him a mix of a fireball and real fire. A good example is Koichi Kawakita's work with Rebirth of Mothra, giving Desghidorah a fire ball or real fire, which both looked just as powerful. I would have Gamera use his fire on the monsters but not have it instantly destroy them. I wouldn't have Gamera hugging or pushing the monsters the whole fight, I would have actual punches timed with set explosions on the monsters. Making it so that the punches look more than rubber suits hitting each other. For Ayana I would keep her family in the story and get rid of the two weird characters that do nothing for the story. I would also have you feel bad for Ayana's family and make it clear that Ayana is being tricked by Iris. I would have Gamera attack Japan due to their pollution of the earth. Also having him absorb their energy such as electrical towers, smoke towers, and nuclear powerplants. I would have Gamera be incredibly strong, with military attack not affecting him in any way. Making it so that the monsters he fights would seem to have no chance. Which leads to the other monsters. I would have them be introduced by hurting Gamera badly in some way or another. Gamera's fire, due to it not being an instant kill, would make the fight much more dramatic while also creating some cool looking scenes at night. Since it was barely done in the Heisei Gamera films I would have Gamera bite the monsters he is fighting, having his tusks dig deep into the monsters and having him not let go similar to the original Gamera or real turtles such as snapping turtles. I would give the monsters he fights hands with claws that can make it easier to create physical combat. For the monsters lasers I would have them be extremely fast and more act like electricity with how fast them move, creating an electrical discharge within Gamera or whatever the lasers hit. I would have Yukijiro Hotaru be more of a main character of the series, instead of having him be a side character and then forgetting about him at the end of Gamera Revenge of Iris. I would keep the grounded feeling that these films have with the human characterssince I think that's their main advantage over other monster films. Showing the humans do daily activities such as shopping, eating, cooking makes the humans more personal. For the theme I would focus on a menacing theme without the feeling of mystery. I would also like some beautiful theme for Gamera's victory over the monsters or when a monster changes forms. Which leads to the monsters forms. I would have the monsters change forms at least once in the film, whether this be a sort of larva transformation or a constant changing throughout the film. I would have it shown or verbally explained how and where these monsters came from. Possible due to ancient writings with paintings or showing the subtly showing the monster right in the beginning of the film waking up. And that's some of what I would change, I know this is a literal essay, but you asked so I answered.
@@GSTE_ good answer as for what I think for the monsters Gamera and Gyaos backstories in the are the same Gyaos are made to stop pollution but started eating humans once there purpose is do or do to the fact they used bat dna to make them, Legion would be a bio weapon made by a very old alien race that wanted to colonize Earth when Atlantis was still around and Iris would be a prototype for Gamera but was uncontrollable do to its brain chemistry being made once someone links with it and will want your life force and body to become powerful and get DNA from other Kaiju to get new abilities but that is what I would do in the Kaiju backstory wise
@@brockbooth630 I think that story is a little bit too complicated. I think a better way to have it would be to have a more simple origin for the monsters. Such as if Legion was from space a good way to show that would be to show a meteor landing on earth from space. And then after the explosion of the impact you can get closer to the impact zone and then you can play the monster's roar and cut to a black screen. I feel like the origins of the monsters being created by Atlantis or mysterious aliens is too complicated and there would be no realistic way the humans could find out the exact origins of the monsters if they were done that way. That's why I don't like the story of the Heisei Gamera films, basically they were just making it up as they went along, not even having a good explanation for what happens in the film itself and leaving it to the next one to give a bad explanation. Gamera being created by Atlantis is far less interesting than the original Gamera. The fact that these monsters that roamed the earth long ago could just pop up randomly has always fascinated me. Such films like Gojira, Godzilla 1984, Gamera 1965, and the beast from 20,000 fathoms having this quality is a reason they stand out to me. But that's just what I think. Although I don't like the Heisei Gamera films, I must admit that they are the reason I starting looking into films more and started talking about movies.
@@GSTE_ I know they never planed it out to begin with they wanted Godzilla to show up at one point plus like 10 movies I mean if that happened the story will hopefully get good and not be so random and maybe we get to see the Kaiju from the showa era plus the turtles where never a thing in the Gamera trilogy and Gamera and Iris where part of the Chinese mythology seasons like Gamera is Winter and Iris is Fall meaning there be Tiger Kaiju for spring and a Dragon Kaiju in summer plus Gamera backstory sounds like a W.M.D
@@brockbooth630 I think "turtles not existing in the heisei gamera films" is a perfect example of heisei gamera fans not understanding the films and allowing their assumptions to fill in the plot holes. Turtles do exist in the Heisei Gamera films and it's actually very obvious. Literally when discovering Gamera is actually called Gamera they refer to him as "the turtle". Also in Revenge of Iris there is a model of a tortoise on someone's desk. This statement was completely made up by the director after the films were made, which just proves my point about things being made up as they went along. Making the films even individually feel like your missing key information.
Do you think you can do a video putting Final Wars Goji in a gauntlet against some of the heavy hitters of the heisei era? I feel there are enough differences between Final Wars Goji and Heisei Goji to consider them separate Gojis and am interested where you think FWG stands. I personally consider him towards higher tiers of the Heisei era but I think he hits a stone wall when he gets to the tier of power that kaijus like Super Mecha Goji, Burning Goji, Space Goji, Moguera and Destoroyah reach. Basically I think he is stronger than normal Heisei but significantly weaker than Burning.
The thing is Final Wars would basically do about as well as Legendary Godzilla, and since I kind of just did a video on that topic I think doing one for Final Wars would be extremely repetitive. So I don't know.
So you mean the amount of takes you don't agree with. Just because I don't agree with you on these films doesn't mean my thoughts on the series are bad.
I agree with this. One time I watched Gamera 3 and I was so confused as to why the humans where around baby Irirs when they knew he was dangerous and Gamera ripping his arm of wasted soooo much time! He could have just broken the spike!!! But no!!! He rips his arm off!
I think I saw Gamera revenge of iris (or at least the final fight) when i was a kid, and the only thing I remember is one of the human characters looking at the monsters in the darkness, which looked a lot better from what I remember.
@@GSTE_ Gamera vs Barugon had an interesting human plot about a man being so consumed by greed that it leads to the release of Barugon and personally I found that more interesting than Gamera vs Gyaos attempting to do the same greed commentary with the confusing motives of the village people protesting the construction workers
Somebody finally had the guts to take this trilogy to task (even if my own reasons for not fawning over it differ somewhat from yours). Glad to see you're not getting dogpiled in the comments. We're all entitled to our own preferences and peak kaiju/ tokusatsu cinema can entail many different things for many different people, no matter what some particularly pushy and precocious contingents in this fandom might insist.
Yeah that's true. But I mostly wanted to put together something that pointed out the flaws in the series, and not small things like a mess up with the suits or animation. Personally I like a lot of things these films did, but I think they put too many things on the line in order to do that, such as the worst model scaling I've ever seen, worst story for all films, and the most confusing film progression, as well as the least creative combat. I have no problem with people saying it's the best series, but I don't like when the same people criticize the Heisei Godzilla films using those films as an example. When as shown here just these three films have a lot of problems. But that's just my thoughts on it.
@@EfrainLopez-hl1nz Heisei Gamera has shown to be vulnerable to missiles. As well as monsters able to hurt heisei godzilla having limbs cut off by normal missiles. Godzilla 1998 although is weak to missiles, is fast and smart enough to make the fight close. Any other Godzilla is not affected by missiles, which is why Heisei gamera wouldn't really have a good battle against them, being easily beaten.
Yo, GSTE. I'm gonna be making a video of my own in a month or so. It's titled, "Could Heisei Destroyah Survive The Monsterverse?" Since MV is making their own Destroyah in an upcoming movie, I thought, why not use the original? Have a good day, man!
@@J.Dome.A Destoroyah's mutation started instantly after he was exposed to oxygen by a construction crew. After that he mutated into the Destoroyah that fought burning Godzilla about a week later. An example of his mutation during battle is when Godzilla exploded Destoroyah's chest and knocked him out with a few blasts of atomic breath. After a few minutes Destoroyah returned and was able to handle a much stronger version of Burning Godzilla's heat ray, although he was eventually overwhelmed. Destoroyah is able to drain any monster's energy almost instantly. His laser breath is not just based on oxygen life forms. The power of this oxygen destroyer is said to be able to penetrate any metal, and even in it's weakest microscopic form it was able to melt an elevator shaft. Destoroyah although being officially 120 meters tall, is closer to 130 when standing up all the way. Destoroyah is physically very strong, with him overpowering Godzilla more than any monster before. With both Heisei Godzilla and SpaceGodzilla being able to lift 150,000 and 160,000 Metric tons very easily. Destoroyah's laser horn was shown to have more of an effect than any weapon in the Heisei era, with even a laser multiple times stronger than Godzilla's atomic breath only stunning him. Destoroyah is very intelligent, yet lacks any motivation for what he does. Even in the heisei era where monster just destroy each other without a reason, Destoroyah goes after anything that moves. Destoroyah also does not have a weakness to cold temperatures like some people think. In one of his weaker forms he was able to handle multiple freezer mazers without any effect. Only after handling an atomic breath much more powerful than any monster has faced before, plus the power of around 12 mazer tanks, and the super x3 was it able to knock him out of the sky. And to be honest the fall probably only knocked him out. Godzilla's meltdown is probably what disintegrated his remains, as shown in a deleted scene where Destoroyah actually gets up from the ground and Godzilla instantly evaporates him to dust. And that's about it.
@@GSTE_ True facts. His height starts around 130ft tall, then after the mutation, he grows to 393ft tall. Plus, considering that MV Godzilla wouldn't beat SpaceGodzilla, he definitely won't beat Destroyah in the MV. Kong with his axe, though....
I agreed on a lot of the things you point out here but i have to say about Gyaos weakness being light is true and the reason why she was able to nest at tokyo tower in her super gyaos form is that she has more layers of eyelid to fix her weakness to light and about gamera got hurt by missile thing I like to point out that while it did indeed knock him over he did not take any visible damage and in gamera guardian of the universe he just woke up and really weak and he did get more durable as in later movies hyper gyaos's (which is even stronger than super gyaos) laser bounce of his skin while in gamera guardian of the universe he got visible damage from not even super gyaos last thing in revenge of iris gamera's connection to humanity via magatama is gone and he was desperate trying to hunt down gyaos around the world so it kinda make sense that he cant care that much of human's life there also that one time he "save" the child was shot so that it looks like he save that child by accident or wasn't intended to do so but that's just me beside things I yapping about here I agree to all other point but I still love this trilogy
Well a lot of my problems with these films is the assumptions needed to have anything make sense. For example Gyaos was shown multiple times, including Gyaos' first scene flying around during the day time. If Gyaos was truly sensitive to light, it would only go out after sunset or around that time. Gamera was shown throughout the series to be weak to missiles. Being knocked down twice in Guardian of the Universe, and knocked out of the sky temporarily in Revenge of Iris. Also as for the Gyaos laser not affecting him. It's possible this is a weaker or younger version. Due to it's size not being as large as the 1995 version.
@@GSTE_ Yeah juvenile gyaos just vibing during the day is not making that much sense but about Gamera and missile like I said in both cases he did get knocked down but have no visible injury and about gyaos in revenge of iris I believe it is call hyper gyaos and from what I remember it is stronger than super gyaos in GOTU and I really think it is indeed stronger like the first hyper gyaos got hit with fireball and take fall damage but still alive although barely and second hyper gyaos take 3 hits from fireball while super gyaos in GOTU got 1 shot with a fireball and I like to point out that Gamera did get more durable in later film like I said in GOTU he bleed from not even full size gyaos's laser but in revenge of iris he takes hyper gyaos's laser without any injury
@@yttycantreallydrinktoomuchmilk That's a good point, I didn't think about that Gyaos being able to handle multiple fire blasts. But Gamera not having physical injury doesn't really mean much when he was still knocked down while standing up or flying. While Showa Gamera is unaffected by nuclear explosions, with missiles bouncing off of him. Also the part I mentioned in the vid where monsters that can be destroyed with a few bullets were able to take Gamera down and make him bleed also supports Gamera being weak to missiles as well. This is again shown when the same bugs that beat up Gamera were destroyed by a few missiles.
@@GSTE_ Yeah Showa Gamera is stronger than Heisei one and about Legion soldiers there are like thousands of them I don't think there's much Gamera could do at that point he didn't have any abilities to counter it he can't even see where he is and I don't think tucking his limbs in to take flight while hundreds of bugs still crawling is a good idea he did bleed from it tho and if I have to imagine the damage it did it probably like thousands of needles wounds not that serious of injuries but you still bleed from it and yeah Legion as a whole don't seem to be that durable but they can do a lot of damage so they're kinda like glass cannon I guess
@@yttycantreallydrinktoomuchmilk Well Gamera could have tried to rip off the bugs using his hands. Even Godzilla was able to get one of the destoroyah crabs off of his back with his hands. And Gamera is supposed to be more mobile than Heisei Godzilla. It would be the equivalent to ants being able to knock down a bear and make it bleed. I just wish they made the fights even as good as the heisei godzilla films, because the amount of things that happen in Godzilla's fight against Destoroyah is more than about half of the fights of the heisei gamera series put together.
gamera did not step on those people gyaos small hand crushed the people gamera cant step on people walk around gyaos and shoot the gyaos point blank range
His fights are also some of the most violent Kaiju fights I have seen, making the fights of the Heisei Godzilla, Heisei Gamera, and later showa era look tame compared.
@@ThomasKubera Well I'm pretty sure I know why the makers of Heisei Gamera did it that way. Having a smaller monster makes it easier to create realistic miniatures, because the details on the models won't need to be as small. But having Gamera stated to be taller than 60 meters and officially 80 meters tall and then having him go from 40 to 30 meters tall in the film is probably the worst model work I've ever seen. Yes they are more detailed than the Godzilla models, but it's only due to them making them more than 2 times larger than they should be. Also thanks, some people didn't like my criticism of the Heisei Gamera films, saying that I was saying the films are unwatchable and bad. They were also coming up with every excuse under the sun for literally everything I said, even saying Gamera cutting off his hand made sense. Making a 3 hour stream about my 16 minute video, and calling my video a "bad faith" video. When I find that pretty interesting considering I did not say anything objectively wrong, sure they may disagree with my conclusion about certain things. But other people who criticize the Heisei Godzilla films say objectively incorrect things about the films and film makers, either giving part of the story or just flat out lies. That is the definition of something made in "bad faith". Yet because they think the Heisei Godzilla films are bad they say nothing about it. I know I kind of went on a little rant here, but I just wanted to explain that a little bit.
@@GSTE_ I used to think the reason tho granted is that he was trapped but yeah there were more better solution but gamera was thinking right. And yeah I find more problem's with the heisei gamera films than the Godzilla one's as I think more and more. Honestly I liked gamera 2 more than g1 and g3 but even then it's has flaws. Second the camera angles in the heisei goji films are better shot in my personal opinion. The story wise again heisei Godzilla takes it. For most that say heisei gamera was are people howling that who pretty the actress are imo. If any most people who talk about the important of humans in Kaiju film are valid it wouldn't surprise me if most of them are simping for the actress even tho there married. Rude I know.
@@ThomasKubera Well I don't know about that last part, but I will 100% agree on the camera angles. The Heisei Godzilla films for years now have been falsely claimed to only use eye level wide shots and useless close ups. When the reality is that the Heisei Godzilla films had the most creative angles in the Godzilla franchise up to that point. They used angles from the monsters perspective whether that be if they are flying or walking. They use low angles, and mostly an angle called a "medium full shot" done at a little bit of a lower angle. The films also use angles with the monsters shooting atomic breath or laser right at the camera, and camera angles behind the monsters showing the monster they are looking at. These angles are used throughout the Heisei Godzilla films. I think I know why people like the Heisei Gamera films and their story. It's the same reason why they can even understand a little bit of the story and plot. Assumptions. You can tell this by talking to them or when they repeat what you say. They take what is spoken or shown and twist it to match their thoughts. An example being when I said "and this next point makes these films unwatchable for me". They take this as me saying that the films are unwatchable for everyone. Another example of how they twist what is in the films. I'll use a piece of conversation I had with one of them. They said that Miki Saegusa from Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla wouldn't care if a giant dog destroyed thousands of people in front of her. When in the film all it showed was that she didn't want Godzilla to be destroyed, yet she still tried to do things like mind control, and even in Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 she was the one who blew up Godzilla's brain. In response to this my points were called "nonsense" as well as some other things. I then responded with "You literally said Miki wouldn't care if a giant dog destroyed thousands of people" But yeah, a main thing wrong with the Godzilla fandom is fans who assume everything under the sun for films they like, yet don't even get the facts right for films they don't like.
@@callmeishmael5742 True, but naturally having a larger head and wider body is widely known by film makers to make something look smaller. Proportions when it comes to monsters are very important.
@@GSTE_ I mean, official Toho sizes often don't line up with what we see onscreen. Showa Ghidorah is NOT twice as tall as Godzilla, Showa Gigan isn't taller than Titanosaurus, Gorosaurus is officially listed as 35 meters, which is way too short for DAM and way too tall for King Kong Escapes... And it's not just the Showa series. Heisei almost uses "120 meters" as a placeholder height. Moguera is allegedly 120 meters, 20% taller than Godzilla, but look at them next to each other and that's clearly not true. "Official stats" like that really just feel like some numbers a bored intern typed out and I hope they don't influence anyone's enjoyment of kaiju films.
Wow. Some comments are real butt hurt that you have a different opinion on Hesei Gamera. I honestly don't mind the debate on the Gamera trilogy vs the entire Heisei universe or something, but the fact that people can get THIS offended is kinda wild
@@samueljohnkennethrollno3528 Now if you really want to see a hint of what I was talking about look up "Writers Righting the Wrongs of Heisei Gamera Hot Takes" Where it's basically two youtubers spending 3 hours saying "that's what the film makers were trying to do" while hinting at me being biased towards the end of the stream and basically grasping onto anything they can to try and discredit my points, video editing, and overall channel. But even then I've talked to some people who were much more unfriendly than any of these in the comments section.
@@GSTE_ That's even more concerning. Guess the Godzilla community isn't the only Kaiju fanbase that's reaching high toxicity levels. I mean, if videos like this were around a year ago; when I started to really learn about Kaiju, I would honestly be alot less open minded. It's a little shameful for me to admit but yeah. I would have been a real douche back then.
@@samueljohnkennethrollno3528 The first thing I would like to say is that not all Heisei Gamera fans are like what I describe. Now I'll respond to what you said. The Godzilla and Gamera fandom has been like this for a while. People think films they like are perfect and any criticism is wrong, while films they don't like can have false things said about the films or purposely twisted information and no one will say anything. This has been going on for years with the criticism of the Heisei Godzilla films from Heisei Gamera fans. Yet the criticism they give for the heisei Godzilla films are very selective and don't apply to any other films such as the showa godzilla films or heisei gamera films. Usually these types of Godzilla fans like to call themselves "tokusatsu" fans or something like that. If you disagree with them then you are objectively wrong, have bad taste, are biased and don't understand film. But unlike a lot of other Godzilla fans who just say vague criticisms or present barely any arguments, these "Tokusatsu" and more specifically Heisei Gamera fans are very well spoken, and can argue about as much as me. But the difference is that when backed into a corner due to a lot of their points not matching what happened in the film or the facts they will either not answer or use insults to deflect. A good example being "wow, you know nothing about (whatever the topic is), it's obvious that (whatever they claimed happened) in the film." This is why I personally find Heisei Gamera fans the most frustrating to deal with, and also a reason why the comments you see here are about half as what I might see in one lone discussion with a Heisei Gamera fan.
I was going to leave a comment breaking down how utterly wrong nealry every point you make here is, but that is going to require more than just a comment
Wow OK first off why the heck would you let other people inform your opinions before seeing them for yourself. And while the series has plenty of issues. Especially in the last film. But my God dude you're complaining about not having context when context is given.
Jeez you're straight up the type of person who needs everything explained to you. So many of your issues aren't even issues. You just need to pay better attention to the film for a lot of issues.
Well because I hadn't seen or heard of the films and people told me they were the best Kaiju films. Which is why I bought them to watch them for myself. So your saying I need to make assumptions of what's happening in order for it to make sense. All the things I explained there were no or barely any context given. The main characters adopted family in Revenge of iris isn't even talked about after they are killed by iris except for a short flashback at the end. The military shoots down legion only for it to instantly cut to the next day. The military are about to shoot at the legion bugs two different times and it cuts to something else. The bird scientist is last seen in a meeting, and the next time you see her she is saving a kid on a random island. If there was any context I'd be interested in hearing it. The humans act like they have seen these monsters before, not even talking about how a giant turtle can fly. They act like gyaos being able to reproduce is more important, when you have a giant turtle that can shoot fire, fly and doesn't care about humans. They decide he's good because some ancient writings that say Gamera the cradle of time will awaken to stop gyaos or something like that. And just from that alone they decide the giant turtle is Gamera, and the bird is gyaos. For almost anything in these movies to make sense it requires a lot of assumptions of things not even in the films.
@GSTE_ did you actually pay attention to the films while watching. Because again it really seems like you didn't. First off "they" don't decide that Gamera is good. The military and government attack him in both the 1st and third film as the priority over the Gyaos and Irys. They constantly see him as a threat. It's Nagamine and others like Asagi who see that Gamera is here to protect/defeat the Gyaos or other monsters. You do realize things are mentioned in dialog while they are on their way to meet with Nagamine in the first film. We don't have to have everything spelled out for us in films. You are sadly sommedia illiterate or just don't pay attention while watching the films. Because so much of what you complain is addressed or nonexistent in the films as issues. Her "adopted" family is brought up later in the film. They don't react like they've seen giant monsters before they are in awe and shock upon seeing Gamera. Are you for real? Again they do treat gamera as the main threat and Nagamine is the one pushing for them to investigate treat the Gyaos as the threat they are. They are an invasive destructive species that eat and attack humans. They reproduce at such rapid rates as we see in 3. You also have Asagi who is Gamera's connection to humanity in the first two films. They literally spell so much out for you in the films. It's not all just stuff you have to assume or guess at knowing. My other issues about you having not seen these before and having opinions on them without seeing them. You can obviously see what others have said and see if you agree with them. But you've went along with the opinion of them being so great without actually seeing them. It's such a problem in this fanbase where people just let others decide for them without ever having seen the films themselves
@@gogeta492 I was talking about the main characters when saying that the humans decide Gamera is good, not the military. Ok, explain to me where it was talked about that Ayana's family was destroyed by Iris. You would think when trying to convince Ayana to not go along with Iris that this would have came up. Her adopted family was shown in a short flashback after everything already happened. Your explaining the reproduction of Gyaos. Not Gamera being able to fly, shoot fire, or the fact that he can even stand up. Films like shin godzilla go into this a lot better. Unlike most Godzilla films no previous monsters were shown to be known by humans before Gamera and Gyaos. Which makes it incredibly strange no questions were asked. So your saying Shin Godzilla spelled everything out and that's a bad thing. Literally Shin godzilla is a perfect example that I should have brought up in my video. They go into detail not just about his evolution, but about his nuclear fission, atomic breath, and future abilites. Asagi lost her connection to Gamera at the end of Guardian of the Universe. As stated when she says she can't feel Gamera anymore. Having high hopes for a films because close friends and other people say it's the best films of the genre doesn't mean I let them think for me. I guess I could have stated it better in the vid, but this is what I meant. Unlike those people you talk about, I actually bought the films and came to my own conclusion about them after watching them multiple times individually at different times.
@GSTE_ lol, no, you weren't being clear on that. And guess what it's spelled out and shown very clearly. Because of Asagi's connection, the fact he saves humans and doesn't eat them like Gyaos or the fact that they translated the stone tablet. But the government is more focused on protecting the gyaos because of their perceived rarity.....again watch the movie and pay attention Lol, we literally see Ayana's family's house destroyed, and we see a shriveled husk as remains of one of her relatives. We literally see Iris doing this to a girl not long after. It's only shown in a flashback because Ayana is connected and see it through Iris' pov. Again, pay attention to the movie. Please, shin Godzilla barely goes into anything involving godzilla and most is just guessing they don't know for sure. See you've just shown your problem. You're the type of simpleton who needs everything explained in great detail for you to understand anything. It's a giant monster. We don't need its entire physiology explained in the film to enjoy it or accept its existence. Yea gamera severs the symbiotic relationship to Gamera in the ending of the film. But the ties are cut completely in Legion when Gamera is revived. Yeah thats not how it came across in the video. And I'm not saying you don't own them or haven't seen them. I'm saying you clearly haven't paid all that much attention to them while watching these films as most of your "issues" are fairly well gone into over the three films.....
I just watched it. And well, yeah at times their points sounded like trying to come up with any excuse to show I'm wrong. But I guess everyone thinks different, so yeah I'm not going to insult them or anything or say that they are heisei gamera fans or insult their work. Which apparently disagreeing with someone on if a film is good using specific points is justification enough to do so.
@@GSTE_ Haven't look at the stream just yet or your video for that matter. Combination of not those being my priority, not as much time as I hoped for and horrible time management skills on mu behalf
@@vaggos2003 Well I'll just summarize some of the extreme stuff said about me. Throughout the stream they compare me to Doctor skipper and his (a specific term that I won't use) rant. They also say I'm biased towards Heisei Godzilla and they "confirm" this by looking at my videos and saying all I talk about is Heisei Godzilla hinting that my opinion on these films aren't valid due to that as well as all my points being objectively wrong. They try and excuse what they are saying by saying "he might be a nice guy" to then continue and insult me and my hard work. They also talk down on my script being poorly written and how it's giving them whiplash due to the transitions of topics. In the beginning they talk down on my channel saying I have low subscribers and that I was trying to punch up towards larger youtubers. And the worse one is where they literally twist my words saying that I am telling people the films are unwatchable and they aren't good. When I literally say "which makes these films unwatchable for me personally". And I also tell people to watch it for themselves to come to their own conclusion. Which somehow they even take that negatively. Saying that I didn't "stick to my guns" and that they would have respected me more if I didn't completely change my mind and being hypocritical by saying the heisie gamera films did good in certain areas like the special effect sand quality of models. When in reality this is not contradicting my points in any way. Unlike other people I'm not going to say films aren't good, since that is an objective statement. I personally found their words about me and my work offensive, although I will admit when I was more immature I used to say similar things about people who didn't like the heisei godzilla films. This isn't even all of what they said. But this only solidifies my thoughts on Heisei Gamera fans not being able to understand when other people disagree with them. And thinking themselves and their preferences are objectively right. How can a community grow if anyone who disagrees with them is insulted and put down.
"When a Turtle was Better than Godzilla" Or "How Gamera Beat Godzilla at his own Game" Yeah not in a million years, Gamera will always be inferior to Godzilla
I agree with you. Okay granted, I've only seen 3 Gamera movies, (Gamera the Brave, The original and cancer. AKA Gamera Not so Super Monster) but out of those three movies, I only like Gamera the Brave. Even still, it's like a 6.5\10, while Gamera Giant Monster (I think's called that) is like a 4\10. Gamera Not so Super Monster is a 1\10. It makes Godzilla's Revenge look like Godzilla-1 in comparison. but a world where Gamera is better than Godzilla is a false one.
It really just seems thst your mad that the gamera trillogy is better recieved than the hiesie godzilla films, like holy fuck man your coping to the next reality by saying gamera will never be better than godzilla when these films prove otherwise cuz I doubt the mv is better, hell gamera best godzilla with a better anime earth trilogy is ass and singular point is a weird show that is so confusing that you just Beg for the monsters to re appear cuz you dont want to listen about some physics bullshit
Hello there, GSTE. I quite like you and your content, and I agree with so many things you elaborate upon. I was wanting to see if you'd like to do a quick and brief collaboration with a friend on an upload on Godzilla upcoming. I'd like to break the details down more privately, so I was wanting to know if you have Discord, Instagram, etc., to explain the details. That is, if you're interested at all in the first place. Let me know, dude!
I don't really use anything but youtube. If you want to talk we can talk here. I might consider a collaboration but I don't know who or what your talking about. If you want to talk more we can do it here.
@@GSTE_ Ok, now that you'll consider a collaboration, I'll elaborate. Not much I want to reveal on myself, just a personal thing so sorry. I do love the Godzilla franchise, loved it ever since I was a child and I quite love your content and art. I agree massively with many things you elaborate upon. As for the collaboration, there is a RUclipsr who you might know known as Godzilla King of the Monsters www.youtube.com/@godzillakingofthemonsters5812/videos. He powerscales Godzilla and other characters, and has got to be the single most knowledgeable and best Godzilla powerscaler and debater out there. Godzilla King of the Monsters is making a new upload as we speak, another one that is in regards to Heisei Godzilla vs Legendary Godzilla, and why Heisei Godzilla pretty noticeably takes the win. This particular upload won't be as powerscaling-based analytically and more about basic showing, analysis-wise, using a lot of the basics, good explanations, lore, and guides, etc. I bring this up because you mention in your uploads about how Godzilla Y does in universe Z, you don't want to powerscale too much due to controversy, which is perfectly fine. He is getting many people to elaborate and talk about sections, such as who strikes harder or who has a better beam, etc., and I brought up bringing you up on his channel to collaborate and read a script portion, at which he was on board since he's fine with you. The guests also have an end section where they explain the matchup and who they think wins (All of which agree Heisei wins, you included). You have quite a few thousand subscribers already, so I was wondering if you'd like to join this collaboration and send me a video of you voicing some lines for a category of the upcoming upload, as well as your thoughts of why Heisei wins, which will be featured at the end. Credit and thanks obviously will be given. The clip being sent to be used in the upload is sort of why I'd want to talk about this more privately like a gmail, which I can send mine first if you personally like that, but we can continue this on RUclips, and more importantly, if you actually feel up to it. You do not have to do this, you obviously have your own decision which I will respect either route, but I just wanted to throw this out there, as a fan of you of course!
@@user-oy2vh1xw7o Well I don't know If I can do that. Although I have watched his stuff before, I don't like the use of strong language in his vids. I also don't like being apart of something I don't know about completely. So I don't think I will be apart of it, although It sounds very interesting. But thanks for watching, and I'm happy you like my videos. I don't know what the other thing you wanted to talk about but I'm willing to listen if you want to talk. If you don't want anyone seeing it you can go to one of my random older videos and write it there.
@@GSTE_ That is fair enough. I think the other thing I was wanting to elaborate upon was simply just more details about the upcoming upload. Regardless if less curse words are used in this new one and if I elaborate the whole thing, I respect your opinion regardless. Still, I am a fan, so I'm excited to see the next one, I'll be watching!
Honestly. You just come across as a godzilla fanboy, spurned and butthurt that this trilogy (especially gamera 3) is better recieved than most godzilla movies. I've been watching Kaiju films since you were still crapping diapers. No movie is perfect all will have flaws, but this trilogy is as close to perfect as a kaiju film series can get.
The first thing that I will say is that my age doesn't have anything with my criticism of these films. But unlike a lot of other Godzilla fans I have been watching Godzilla, the showa gamera films, and monster films for most of my life and far before 2014 when America was reintroduced to Godzilla. I grew up watching the Showa Gamera films, so when people said these films were better than the Godzilla films I looked into them and didn't come to the same conclusion. But I'll say that saying how you are older than me and then starting off your argument by saying I'm a "godzilla fanboy" and "butthurt" isn't a good way to show that. I already explained in this video what I view as the flaws in these films, and I think most Godzilla films don't have as many flaws as the ones I've mentioned here, even the ones I don't think are good. For people who like the Heisei Gamera films the same judgement used for certain Godzilla films don't apply to the Heisei Gamera films, despite these films being compared to each other. If you don't view these things I explained as flaws or major parts of the film then that's alright, but you could actually respond with counter points instead of assuming I'm a "godzilla fanboy" and bragging about your age.
Y'know, the nice thing with these kind of ad hominem arguments is that they can be easily flipped back. You come across as just a Gamera fanboy spurned and butthurt that movies you like are being criticized. If you have actual valid arguments that address his criticisms, make them.
While I Can Never Call Gamera better than Godzilla, I can't Help but Admire Gamera Because unlike Most Knockoffs, rather than fading Into obscurity, Gamera Instead Evolved to Become distinct From Godzilla, rather than just copying his homework word for word.
Well Gamera was never a complete copy of Godzilla. And I would say the Heisei Godzilla series made him basically a copy of Godzilla more than any of the showa era Gamera films did.
I'm going to be completely honest, The Brave did a better job at making Gamera feel strong. He's only 30 meters and yet he and Zedus fighting is given this insane amount of impact and destruction.
The Heisei Godzilla films in my opinion are better than the Heisei Gamera films because I grew up with the heisei films and I just found Godzilla more entertaining with the fights and the humans figuring out how to defeat Godzilla.
Edit: I also think the Heisei Gamera films took the idea that a certain human could communicate or have a linkage with a kaiju since Miki Saegusa was able to communicate with Godzilla and Godzilla Jr. Also keep in mind that the Gamera films introduced this in 1995 which was 6 YEARS AFTER IT WAS INTRODUCED IN THE HEISEI GODZILLA FILMS (1989).
The fact that nobody points out Gamera's reckless destruction in Guardian of the Universe (where it isn't even a plot point) is astounding to me. Like you pointed out, he can fly, but walks through the city to get to the baseball stadium with the Gyaos in it, thus killing a bunch of people for no reason. Then later it makes a big deal of Gamera saving those people on the bridge by taking a laser to the hand for them. This is inconsistent characterization for the sake of preserving a twist. And even after, Gamera does things like tear apart that building in the middle of the final fight with Gyaos for no reason. This is also because Kaneko really just wanted to direct Godzilla and prioritized the spectacle of cool shots over consistent characterization. Another example in Revenge of Iris when Gamera decides it's smart to blow up Iris in an explosion so big we literally can see it from miles away instead of just ripping out his organs or something. Not only did he pay no mind to the fact that this could literally kill all of those people he's trying to save, but all of the characters *should* be dead. This is literally the same kind of thing Man of Steel rightfully got lambasted for. I think it's because when people view fights and destruction scenes in kaiju movies, they view them simply as dopamine hits and not what they should be, storytelling devices (as done successfully in, for example, the original Star Wars trilogy, the Russos MCU films, Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla 93 and Destoroyah). Careful attention is brought to the character writing in those fights. Meanwhile, when people who tout these films try to criticize Heisei Godzilla's characterization, there's no actual inconsistent characterization, they're just moralizing. The point is that Godzilla is an reptile who was horribly mutated and understandably wants revenge on humanity, something made clear even in the original film. Godzilla's violent nature is a part of the story, they didn't accidentally characterize Godzilla as a rageful villain (even if a sympathetic one) when he's supposed to be a good guy. In the same way that Darth Vader in the original trilogy is a cold terrifying villain, even if made sympathetic and eventually spiritually redeemed in ROTJ. The Heisei Godzilla films have their flaws, I consider a couple of them ok or even bad, but especially in regards to Omori and Okawara's films, I think they're definitely better then Kaneko's, especially in the writing department. Don't even get me started on GMK. And again, thank you for sharing your sentiments on the fights, because I feel the same way. The Legion and Iris fights are so clumsy and underwhelming, and often with all of them you can hardly tell what's going on.
I always found it interesting how the Heisei Godzilla films were claimed to have all these problems that for the most part the Heisei Gamera films have to an even worse degree.
For example some people say Heisei Godzilla can't be sympathetic due to him walking through cities and the reason doesn't matter.
If that is the case then Gamera walking through cities instead of flying over everything is even worse. This is even worse when you consider that Gamera is able to sense where people are as shown when he saves Ayana.
It wouldn't be as bad if it was just from film to film, but Gamea's character is inconsistent within the films themselves, and his lack of intelligence is staggering.
You also forgot a more obvious point with Gamera easily being able to impale Iris with his hand. If it was this easy then he should have done it earlier.
For me I grew up with the Showa Gamera films and I don't think I was ever as upset when watching a film as when I watched the Heisei Gamera films and more specifically Gamera attack of Legion.
For the longest time I could not even comprehend what was wrong with the films. Which that is mostly due to the confusing nature of the films with them being poorly written, poorly structured, and making literally no sense.
I don't have as many problems with GMK but it still has similar problems as the Heisei Gamera films, while having worse special effects than basically any Godzilla or Gamera film since the showa era.
I think people are confusing a film being mysterious with being confusing and poorly made. The fact that the main character of Gamera 2 is never said what her job is or why she is the only person advising military leaders should say enough.
Also if you plan on making a review of the Heisei Gamera films I recommend looking at a stream called "Writers Righting the Wrongs of Heisei Gamera Hot Takes" where it's basically Heisei Gamera fans spending 3 hours saying how I'm wrong with no real examples, while at the same time subtly insulting me, my video, editing, and youtube channel, and even hint that I am biased.
Watching that will let you know what you are in for if you try and criticize these films, if you haven't already seen how Heisei Gamera fans are.
@@GSTE_ The criticism towards Heisei Godzilla's characterization clearly comes from this very anthropocentric moralizing stance where they feel the need to "punish" him for his "crimes" when he's an animal, that's not how it works (which is a part of the message of the film). Should Tilikum the Orca have been sentenced to death for killing 3 people? No, that's not our place, especially when his violent behavior was our fault. The solution was to find peace, which is what Miki wanted, especially since there's viable way to make that happen for the first time (BabyGodzilla), not kill Godzilla.
"I think people are confusing a film being mysterious with being confusing and poorly made." You hit the nail on the head. Not only are inconsistencies created to to hide twists, but his mythologies often make no sense and are too vague. What is the purpose of the magatama and how does it work? Why is it that Ayana was the only one to bond to Gamera when others touched it before her? Why does she receive Gamera's wound when Gyaos lasers him, but not when he plummets to the Earth from space? It's never explained whether Iris was truly malevolent or corrupted by Ayana's hatred. If the situation with the Gyaos was so urgent to the point where by the time they made Gamera, it was too late for Atlantis to be saved, why the fuck did the Atlanteans dick around taking all the time to make a shit ton of Gameras only to waste them, now lying on the sea floor as corpses? Why didn't they use Iris to aid Gamera too? The guardian monsters backstories and the rules concerning the ghosts in GMK also don't make a lick of sense either.
You did a good job pointing out another issue with GOTU and Legion: they really are poorly structured. They jump around, things just come and go. The government/military meetings and mythology exposition are often flat and dull. The haphazard attempt at an environmental message so late into GOTU made me cringe. And yes, the fighting strategies of Gamera are really stupid, especially in the fight with Iris.
I'm very sorry you had to go through that. I'm familiar with this kind of toxicity, actually. In 2018 when I was big in the Instagram Godzilla community, I got incessantly dogpiled and stalked with aggressive comments for praising the Heisei Godzilla movies, including personal attacks towards Koichi Kawakita, often with no provocation. Any of my responses (mostly either trying in vain to argue in good faith or just blocking) they'd be reductive and flat out lie to paint me as a villain. They'd try to dictate the terms of the argument by patronizing me for my messages being "too long", because I actually gave examples instead of empty blanket judgement values. They'd claim I blocked anybody who didn't like the Heisei Godzilla series and refused to have discussion, when in actuality, I only blocked those that slandered Kawakita; I even had friends that disagreed with me on those movies. Someone even sent me photoshopped kaiju porn with me in it, and a meme telling me that the entire fandom hated me. I was 16 and dealing with some pretty rough shit in life too, and I have ADHD that was at the time undiagnosed. It's part of the the reason why, despite me still liking Godzilla, and I know the Star Wars fandom is worse in broad strokes, I'm still more hesitant to take part in Godzilla fan communities then Star Wars ones (tbf, it's also easier bc the stuff I love, the original trilogy, Darth Vader comics, Rogue One, are things that most love, whereas with Godzilla, while I share opinions on some beloved movies, I have some pretty hot takes). Now I'm getting into making video reviews that I've always wanted to do, Star Wars, Marvel, and Godzilla alike. And even if nasty parts of all of those fandoms come for me, I'm gonna stand my ground. Half the reason it got as bad as it did is because I engaged with them at all. My philosophy is, when I encounter bad faith, I block, ignore and move on.
@@LordVaderTyrannus I can understand the case for Godzilla being destroyed because of his threat to humanity, but so did the films as well.
They presented two sides, one being a more sympathetic side to Godzilla and the other side trying to stop Godzilla forever to protect humanity.
A perfect example of this which wasn't in the Heisei Gamera films is from Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 where Asusa talks to the military leader and after telling him that they can't use Baby Godzilla like bait.
The military leader tells her "The men of G-force have a responsibility, they must rid the world of the threat posed by Godzilla, that is why they have got to go ahead with this plan. I'm sorry if you can't accept that."
This shows how the films aren't just one sided like many people say, but instead bring up multiple view points for Godzilla which each one makes sense and why Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 doesn't have an actual antagonist.
Also try not to use harsh words, thanks.
But for your points I agree, but there are still many other problems.
Such as why is the film called Guardian of the universe when Gamera can't even fly out of earth's atmosphere. Why did they think Atlantis created Gamera when the human characters literally say Atlantis was theorized to be in the Atlantic Ocean.
Have you also noticed how every film has the human characters do things for the entire film yet nothing they do ends up being productive or affect the outcome of the films.
You have Gyaos's reproduction talked about which basically leads to nowhere, you have Gamera and iris talked about which again leads nowhere. And you have Legion's plant talked about which doesn't lead to stopping the plants exploding or Legion itself.
That sounds pretty messed up.
The way I've dealt with people who like to argue about the Heisei Godzilla films is to basically keep the same tone as I am now.
If you try and go to their level, or lower than them, then you will end up looking like the bad guy.
But I think the most important thing is to do your own research. Through my research I've found tons of things no one talks about, such as how Koichi Kawakita basically predicted the success of Godzilla Minus one in the US.
As well as other things like the budget of the Heisei Godzilla films being only about double the 70s showa films.
Which from my research I also found Koichi Kawakita was highly respected and very kind to people he met, unlike what some people try to say.
Being disagreeable in terms of art is very known for artists, but that doesn't mean they are mean people.
There are many examples of people saying they got along with Koichi Kawakita during work, as well as even interviews saying he was good to work with. As well as many other things.
Sure there were some people who didn't like him and thought he was hard to work with, but that can go for everyone, especially with a director of something.
I think the best thing is to tell all sides of things and not just one side. Or else it will be a constant game of ping pong where one side says something that helps them and the other side says something that helps them without bringing up the context.
Also just a helpful recommendation that someone told me a long time ago, if you want your writing to be easier to be read, try and split it up similar to how I am doing.
But a good example of context on all sides is Ishiro Honda's quotes on Godzilla films.
Ishiro Honda said he didn't like the Heisei Godzilla films, but he also said the special effects were complex and gave reasons for why they might have done certain things.
Ishiro Honda also said he thought what they did with Godzilla by making him move like a human in the showa era was not good.
Yet only Ishiro Honda's quote about not liking the Heisei era is brought up.
I think making an argument without bringing up any of the flaws in something that you like makes it a weaker argument.
This is why I plan on making a video criticizing the Heisei Godzilla films flaws sometime in the future.
Awesome discussion, my friends, and some excellent points.
Oh, and Gamera 2: Advent of Legion, the often times so called "peak kaiju movie" can go and fuck itself. That's shit's a 4-5/10 at best.
@@vaggos2003 Well I wouldn't say that about Gamera 2. Especially when the other films in the series aren't much better, but also because a lot of it has to do with preference and ways to interpret the films.
As much as I don't like the Heisei Gamera films, that is one of the reasons this video wasn't titled the Heisei Gamera films aren't good even though the films themselves have the most flaws I think any serious series of monster films I've seen.
the fight in the trilogy feels more heavy than the heisei godzilla films
That's mostly due to the excessive camera shake, making it appear something is happening when nothing is actually going on.
An example being Gamera and iris's sky battle, or most of his fight against legion and iris.
@@GSTE_Yo, Gste. Would you ever consider doing a "Could Gamera Survive?" video? I've a few ideas! Wanna chat more about this?
@@J.Dome.A Judging by how well this one did I'm probably not going to be talking about Gamera for a good while.
@@GSTE_ Good to hear, man.
@@GSTE_ How've you been? Any news about your upcoming vids?
Honestly I do like the heisei Gamera Trilogy more than showa Gamera films to be honest.
Nah I loooooove Showa Gamera it’s better than Heisei… Ah nostalgia
See, the girl in Gamera 3 didn’t know her family was even killed until the visions of them appeared when she merged with Iris at the end of the film. and she immediately rejected him after that. So to say she didnt care isn’t true
Ayana was shown to not care about anything Iris did until the kid tried to stop her at the end of the film for some reason.
This is shown when her mind is read and it is shown that Iris is killing people. She is also presented with the fact that Iris is killing people during it's fight with Gamera which she barely has a reaction.
Her overall attitude throughout the film is that she doesn't care. Just like the other human characters decided to never mention that Iris killed her family in the first place, the human characters are written this way so that they can have people next to the monster during their fight.
@@GSTE_That’s because she didn’t know what he did go get to where he was until they merged at the end. She has no idea that Gamera is a hero and seeing her family be killed by him is a reasonable reason to hate him. Same thing in KOTM
@@RickDaSquirrel Like I said as one of my main points, for the story to make sense you need to assume almost everything.
Of course it's not said Ayana knew Iris killed her family or people, but it is shown through her necklace which has a direct connection to the monsters, as shown with Asagi and Gamera in Guardian of the universe.
Also Gamera is not a hero, his only goal in the films is to destroy the Gyaos. This is hinted at in the ending of Attack of Legion where they say if humans keep destroying life on the planet Gamera will destroy them.
Gamera is inconsistent with his portrayal in these films. Gamera is shown multiple times to save individual people for no reason other than for a cool special effect. And then they have Gamera walking across cities through buildings (despite being able to fly) and then destroying the cities despite having a sense where individual people are.
If anything Ayana was right with her conclusion about Gamera.
Not only is Gamera a false protector of earth, he intentionally picks and chooses who to save, while carelessly destroying thousands of times as many people.
Which is why I have a problem when people say Heisie Godzilla isn't sympathetic because he destroyed cites, yet these same people see Gamera walking through an entire city despite being able to fly and shooting his fire carelessly everywhere.
Yet Gamera is made out to be sympathetic despite him actively destroying the earth through his existence.
@@RickDaSquirrel Also the films hint that this necklace allows a connection between the human and monster, which was shown when Ayana could know where Iris was and went to the specific spot Iris was going towards.
Although not outright stated by the humans that Ayana knew Iris killed people, It was shown through her necklace that Iris was killing people, and after such actions were done Ayana fell asleep, similar to Asagi did in Guardian of the universe.
Asagi also had a connection with Gamera and was able to know specific locations and actions of Gamera through this necklace, so it is completely reasonable using what was shown in the films that Ayana knew what Iris had done.
Also Ayana not being told by the main characters that Iris killed her family is a huge plot hole, despite these characters being shown to know Ayana's family was killed.
Your comparison to King of the monsters does not apply because Godzilla is actively saving the planet from monsters. His actions here only cause good things to happen at all angles.
Heisei Gamera on the other hand was stated by the main characters who think Gamera is good as well, that his very existence is draining Mana, which in turn creates more Gyaos.
So Gamera destroying the cities because of the Gyaos does not make him good when his existence and purposeful draining of Mana is what created these Gyaos in the first place.
As well as the draining of Mana being what led Legion to earth which was stated by the humans.
So that's my response to that, I know I already responded a while ago, but I wanted to respond with a more thorough explanation.
If you have any counter points I would like to hear them since no one really has provided why they disagree based on what is shown in the films.
Alright. I'll start this off by saying I won't defend Gamera 2. I just didn't think that was the most well written movie, even if I do appreciate it for the clear passion put into it. I'm also more of a Godzilla fan than Gamera fan.
1. 2:05 They knew that Ayana had some control over Iris and were trying to do everything they could to convince her to stop what Iris was doing. Moving her would have just caused Iris to trample even more buildings.
2. 2:45 They utilize the monsters other weaknesses throughout the films. Most Godzilla films don't question how monster's beams work either. No one complains about that.
3. 3:53 literally said "maybe" right there...
4. 4:24 They give out all the information you need to understand what's happening. I never had any questions about what was happening while watching the films.
5. 4:32 How did you not recognize their house?
6. 5:03 The origins are left unknown as much as most of Gamera origins. No film explains how everything works or is required to. That takes the magic out of it. None of the Star Wars films ever explained how Lightsabers worked until we got some more information from comics years later.
7. 5:16 She constantly keeps us in touch with what Gamera's intents are throughout the movies during those moments.
8. 5:26 I thought she was clearly not herself anymore once she got in touch with Iris.
9. 5:49 Gamera is an imperfect character which is what makes for some of the most interesting ones. His neglect of human life while he's caught in the heat of the moment if fighting other monsters is literally one of the main plot points throughout that whole film. Gamera is shamed for his neglect of collateral damage.
10. 6:11 He absorbed more because if Iris was finished with Ayana, things would have gotten even worse. Drastic measures. Although, I wasn't a big fan of the whole sudden Mana introduction either.
11. 6:54 I don't even know what your on about here. I thought they were great and used very creative shots, and I was able to understand everything happening just fine. The Heisei Godzilla films did a even worse job at using creative camera angles.
12. 9:34 Easily woundable characters makes for a more tension filled experience, knowing how easily hurt our protagonists can be. Tougher version of a character does not equal better movie, or more interesting.
13. 10:43 I agree in terms of Gamera 2. The other films were utilized great.
14. 10:56 As I stated in in #9, Gamera is criticized for this behavior in Gamera 3. Huge part of the whole plot.
15. 11:48 Most of the shots show his legs tucked in, and on all the figures you look up, you can see his legs are tucked in. As for the shots suddenly show him change, just never bothered me and doesn't seem like a very good reason to not like the movies as a whole.
That's about it from me. lol You had a few good points in here. Anything I didn't point out I agreed with. No films are perfect and flaws are good to point out.
1: If they knew that, what was the point of going to the city in the first place or trying to get on a plane. I could maybe understand the bird scientist staying with the girl, but the rest of the characters had no point being there except to talk about the monsters.
2: While you are right with the monsters lasers, other things like Gyaos supposedly being weak to light is never used against him. And monsters being weak to missiles is only used a few times in the film. Despite missiles actually being the only effective thing against them.
3: She also says they avoid light in the clip I put in right after, proving she still thinks they are nocturnal despite seeing them fly around during the day.
4: If that's so how did the bird scientist get on the island that she saved the kid. Or what happened right after the military shot down Legion's flying form. Or what happened when the military were going to fight the legion bugs two times in the film when they instantly cut it off.
5: Because I don't live there. How would I recognize a house that looks like most other houses. Why would this be left up to an assumption, they are literally the main characters adopted family.
6: True, but most monster films in general don't have a necklace that connects a person to gamera. There should at least be some explanation for how they work.
7: I was speaking about Guardian of the universe, although she barely does anything in Attack of Legion as well. But she does more things in Revenge of iris, although somehow she knows stuff about Gamera that it would be impossible for her to know.
8: She clearly wasn't herself for the whole movie. Even characters talk about her saying that "she used to be so sweet" or something like that. Most of the film even before iris's awakening she has a blank expression.
9: I personally don't have a problem with Gamera destroying stuff. But for the film to make him look like the good guy makes no sense. If he could see the girl inside a monster, how could he not see humans in see through windows or on the ground.
It makes Gamera look like he was aware of what he was doing.
10: I don't think he absorbed "mana" in his fight against iris. I was referring to his final fight against legion. Which his absorption of mana was unnecessary due to Legion's face being broken, which was the only thing keeping back Gamera's fire breath.
11: I just don't like having either the camera on the ground or literally zoomed extremely close on the monsters. It makes it hard to see much of anything. Yes certain low angles do look good, but it's a balance, similar to GMK to make a fight look good. These angles make it so hard to see that you never actually see Iris's legs in most of the film.
The heisei godzilla films use a wide array of angles. Perspective shots, low angles, close angles, high angles, wide shots, and angles behind the monsters. They do all of this while still being able to see what is going on for the most part.
12: I completely disagree. I would say making a monster strong and then having a monster be hurt by another monster makes the tension even greater.
How would the tension be high when you know a few missiles could knock down these monsters or cut off their limbs.
13: Gamera did not utilize his fire breath in the films, which is why I think making it a ball of fire was a bad idea.
You talk about having a monster be weak is better. But when a monster could end a fight, but chooses not to, that cuts all tension. Gamera could easily blow up every monster he fought with a blast of his fire at close range.
Also how did the other films show Gamera's strength, or his combat ability in the sky. Literally most situations in these fights could have been solved if Gamera remembered he could fly.
But due to the budget they mostly have the monsters doing nothing.
14: I was talking about his combat with other monsters, but that also goes for him destroying cities as well.
Literally gamera walks right through a city in Guardian of the universe despite being able to fly.
15: I literally showed most of the scenes where he flies. And what happens is smoke comes out of his knees. And then what? What happens to his legs or arms.
Gamera going into his shell was what made Gamera look more than a regular monster suit in the original films. It also added cool things to the fights, like gamera trying to tuck in his arms after being impaled.
But these films despite having about 10 or more times the budget of those films, don't do that.
They also shoot smoke out instead of the cool fire the original gamera shot out of his shell.
I'm not just a monster fan, I like Gamera about as much as Godzilla. Which is why I care if they make Gamera weak, or not have good fights. Or when they remove key parts that made the original gamera. Otherwise you just have a flying Godzilla.
Yes no films are perfect, but I haven't seen films with problems like these before.
@@GSTE_
1. They had to go to the city to find Ayana, and then by the time they found her, all the planes are closed down. Ain't no airports being open when there's a giant monster attacking.
2. Sure, but they did take advantage of the fact that the Gyaos was sleeping during the day to attempt to kill it. It's also noted that they get stronger as they grow.
3. They were still small at that time.
4. I already said I wasn't going to defend Gamera 2. I thought that film was weak in the writing department.
5. I recognized it immediately and thought "oh nooo..." They showed the scenery around the house several times.
6. And most sci-fi films at the time didn't have laser swords like Star Wars. Didn't need an explanation. I understand wishing there was an explanation, but that doesn't make the film bad.
7. They tell us Gamera can tell people his thoughts. The necklace allowed her to feel his emotions, always.
8. She had a grumpy persona yeah, but the killing of people didn't happen till after Iris took her in the first time.
9. I understand criticizing that shot, but I felt the rest of the movie did a great job at conveying it's thoughts.
10. Yep. Gamera 2 wasn't my favorite.
11. The films had more variety in their shots than I think you give them credit for. The Heisei Godzilla films are just as guilty of strange close up shots. A lot of people also weren't a fan of the wide shots, which the Gamera films actively tried to avoid, because they provided little scale.
12. Here, one of the reasons Godzilla Minus One was so great was because they had a chance at killing Godzilla. Godzilla was not indesctructable. I understand prefering a stronger Gamera, but a weaker Gamera does not make that intrepretation bad or the movies bad.
13. Gamera clearly has a hard time hitting moving targets with his fire breath. In Gamera 1, his final blow is with a good fire breath, I thought he utilized it well. The same could be said for the later Heisei Godzilla films. Why doesn't he just use his heat spiral ray sooner instead of holding out till the end of the film?
14. So was I. He get's too absorbed for his hatred for the Gyaos that he forgets about the people he tries to protect in the first place, which is why there's always people that wan't him dead throughout all the films.
15. That was one instance you showed, also in Gamera 2, we see his whole arm change shapes to accomidate for his land form. Again, you can prefer the other versions of Gamera, but that doesn't make this one bad.
I'm not going to deny that these films lacked some of the cool aspects of the Showa Gamera, but none of these features made Gamera 1 and 3 bad films imo.
Also these films had a smaller budget than the Godzilla films, so I don't understand.
I would also like to add to the tension part. Part of what makes weaknesses add to tension is not knowing whether or not a character is going to make it out alive. If characters are super OP all the time, you have no doubt they'll make it out, and ultimately just adds less tension.
@@duncandonuts5268
1: Like I said in the video, there exists a thing called a car. If they wanted ayana to meet iris so much why not just drive over to it instead of standing there for 20 minutes.
2: True but after that one attempt they give up completely, despite Gyaos sleeping in an easy to hit spot.
3: Literally Gyaos's first scene is him flying around during the day. An animal avoiding the light would wait until after sundown.
5: They showed a lot of houses in the films, that doesn't mean I can recognize any of them.
6: There is a difference between already having an established unique thing in a series because for them that is normal. And they don't need to explain anything to the audience.
But for people to go from living normally on earth, to having a monster that can fly around, shoot fire, dig underground, fighting another monster that can shoot a light beam, I do expect them to ask some questions.
Similar to how the original Gamera films asked questions about the monsters in order to find their weakness.
7: I don't recall Gamera being able to talk to people through the necklace. Of course you have Asagi telling gamera to run, but that doesn't really mean anything.
8: So your saying the killing didn't start until she got the power to do so. Ok.
9: I don't know what this point means but ok.
11: More variety?, literally most of the shots are from the ground or right up in the monsters. I showed most of the angles used, those aren't creative, they are just used to cover the fact there is no background.
Because when there is a background like when Iris stabs Gamera, they make sure to have at least decent angles.
The Heisei Godzilla films have angles with the monsters shooting their fire right at the camera or past it, where the heisei gamera films for the most part use side angles in order to make the animation easier.
They also cheap out on stuff happening in order to save money. Examples being it cutting from Gamera's mouth glowing to Gyaos dodging the fire ball, or Iris blocking Gamera's fire balls.
Or when Gyaos 1995 sees Gamera flying in the sky and they cut to a scene of Gyaos already chasing after him.
The camera work and scenes aren't done well and feel more like multiple separate scenes put together into once fight. Where the Heisei Godzilla fights feel very connected, despite certain scenes being recorded at the end or beginning of production.
12: I haven't seen Godzilla minus one yet. But there is a difference between having a stand alone movie like shin godzilla where a monster can be affected by missiles. Because Shin Godzilla was affected by missiles, but I don't think that affected the movie.
Comparing that to having a monster fighting other monsters where they try their best to destroy them, but missiles are more effective.
I think that does make Gamera and the monster he fights less intimidating.
Similar to how Legion's bugs could be taken out more easily than some real life animals.
Yet they were able to knock Gamera down and cause him to bleed.
13: The red spiral heat ray is completely different from Gamera's normal fire breath. I'm not saying Gamera needs to use his stomach beam every time in a fight. Because he didn't even need to use that in Gamera 2.
The red spiral heat ray can only be used after Godzilla gets enough energy. Which happened after Rodan died, and Godzilla absorbed SpaceGodzilla's energy.
But as you see it still took multiple blasts in order to charge up the fire breath to actually start hurting spacegodzilla.
In fact SpaceGodzilla is the perfect example to compare to Heisei Gamera's enemies because he is able to reflect Godzilla's atomic breath.
Heisei Godzilla seeing that he could reflect it, used it in ways SpaceGodzilla wasn't expecting, such as when Godzilla was falling or already on the ground.
Unlike Heisei Gamera who tries to shoot fire once or twice extremely far away, and then grabs onto the monster until getting stabbed.
Gamera should be incredibly dangerous up close, due to his fire breath, and the film makers should have accounted for this instead of having Gamera present zero threat despite him being capable.
14: That wouldn't match his actions in Guardian of the universe where he protects the people. If he really hated Gyaos (which the films don't say) then he wouldn't have cared about the humans.
They try to do a similar thing in Gamera 3 where a kid says Gamera saved him despite the only thing happening was that Gyaos shot a laser at Gamera's hand.
Showing nothing, especially when Gamera continues to explode the entire city instead of flying after Gyaos in the sky.
Also Iris is easily more dangerous than a few small Gyaos, yet he decided to save the girl for some reason.
Also you brought up why didn't Godzilla use his red spiral heat ray which I already explained. But the real question is why didn't Gamera impale Iris with his hand if he could do that the entire time.
Instead they chose to have him grab onto iris until he got stabbed, which he has done in all three of the films.
15: That is not the same thing as Gamera coming out of his shell. I did not say it makes this Gamera bad, but it does make it not faithful to what Gamera is supposed to be, that being a giant turtle.
Also that transformation of his hand literally makes no sense. They only added that in the film to copy Destoroyah's flying form. Especially since Gamera's flying form was completely normal in Guardian of the universe.
I'm not saying that these films are bad, but for me all of these things are a combination of why I don't like these films. Otherwise I would have titled this as The Heisei Gamera Trilogy is Not Good.
I understand people like different things in films.
Also I was talking about the Showa Gamera films.
The Heisei Gamera films had 10 times or more than the budget of most Showa Gamera films.
Yet the early showa gamera films did even more things with Gamera than the Godzilla films of the time, despite films like Son of Godzilla and Destroy all monsters having a budget of around 200 to 260 Million JPY
Where the first Showa Gamera film had a budget of 50 Million JPY.
Less than 5 times the amount of the Showa Godzilla films. Yet they were still very similar in quality.
With the 2 first Heisei Gamera films having about half the budget of the Heisei Godzilla films. Yet they do even less than Showa Gamera did with Gamera.
@@duncandonuts5268 I don't agree with that. Heisei Godzilla probably the most OP Godzilla was put in far more uncertain situations than Heisei Gamera.
Such as his brain being exploded, him being impaled by Biollante and passing out in the ocean. And him being cut in half and dragged around by Destoroyah.
But then melting down and dying.
Also having Destoroyah kill Godzilla jr.
Finally a video where the flaws are addressed instead of over praising the films. The Heisei Godzilla series is my favorite Godzilla series and a lot of people I know like to diss on those films, but praise the Heisei Gamera trilogy. While I do think the Heisei Gamera trilogy does have impressive effects and good kaiju and model designs, the series is definitely overrated and people will often overlook the flaws you addressed in the video.
Thanks, If you know of anyone who would be interested in this video I'd appreciate it if you recommend this vid.
Also yeah I never heard anyone talking about any of these points, they only become critics when talking about the Heisei Godzilla films.
Also ignoring flaws in the showa or millenium era for doing the same things they complain about the heisei godzilla films.
There is some explanations about Gamera's behavior. Director Kaneko in one of the behind the scenes making video explained that when Gamera is sharing a link with someone, he's more empathetic in protecting individual humans. But when not connected to a human, he's purely focused on killing Gayos with an ends justify the means attitude. This is why in GOTU he rampages because Asagi had not joined with Gamera yet. When Gamera used the Mana beam attack on Legion, it's implied he hates using that ability precisely because it drains the earth but he felt desperate to kill Legion.
2. He rampages through the city because he's limited on plutonium energy to fly. That's why he flies to sea instead of pursuing Gayos because he went to recharge which they state in the movie (his low energy would also explain why he was tearing into the baseball dome instead of just fireball the two unconscious Gayos). Also we don't see people killed by Gamera in his rampage nor is a death toll mentioned, so it's implied Gamera only caused property damage in GOTU.
3. The missiles did damage to Legion because they were guided to do precise damage to her weakest parts of her limbs. Earlier she was moving through a massive tank bombardment like it was nothing.
4. Heisei Gamera is definitely less intelligent than Showa or the Brave. If his opponent counters his fireballs, he assumes automatically that his Fireballs are useless without thinking critically why his fireballs are not working or the context of the enemy countering his fireballs.
5. Alot of people don't know this, but the original Gamera creator hated Kaneko and the Heisei films. GOTU was the only one he attended and refused to work on the 2nd and 3rd movie precisely because of the dark tone and making Gamera unlikeable.
6. I myself have kinda of soured my opinion on Kaneko. He made really pornographical movies before Gamera and he's really creepy in the making of when he describes Ayna feeling hot from Irys and her getting wet in the rain as sexy.
I think a lot of statements made by the Heisei Gamera film makers don't make sense or match the films. For example turtles not existing in the series.
But as for your point, Gamera's connection to Asagi was ended in the first film. Gamera was shown to fly to the exact spot where the Legion hive was. Gamera did not do this in the previous film instead choosing to walk through an entire city.
Gamera had no connection with humanity when he saved Ayana so that proves that theory wrong.
The humans stated in Gamera 3 that Gamera absorbing mana is what summoned Legion to earth in the first place. They were talking about before the events of Gamera 2.
It is never mentioned that Gamera was low on energy, if that was the case he would not have been able to use his flying ability. Similar to what was shown in Gamera 3 where Gamera kind of walks away instead of flying like in Gamera 2.
Gamera was shown to be able to use his fire breath in the first scene he was shown where he blows up Gyaos when he rises out of the water. So that doesn't really add up as well.
Tank fire is very different to Missiles, at least in these Heisei Gamera films. Tank fire was shown to make Gamera roar, but Missiles were shown to knock him out multiple times in the series.
I personally don't really understand why people say these films are the best in the Kaiju genre, since the films don't even succeed in doing what they set out to do.
For example look at any of the Showa Gamera things. Despite a lot of it looking low quality, they manage to do more creative things with Gamera than any Godzilla film ever did.
@@GSTE_ He saves Ayana because she called out to him for help. Also he was trying to form a link with her beforehand (that's why Asagi is begging Ayna to stop fighting Gamera and that he's not her enemy). The ending of Gamera 3 implies that Gamera has formed a link with Ayna. Also Gamera reformed a link with Asagi a second time in Advent of Legion (and then severed again after he revives before his final fight with Legion).
The military state that Gamera was low on plutonium and retreated into the sea for recharging after the first rampage (which in the next scene you see submarines try to track him and then he flies out of the water).
@@GSTE_ ruclips.net/video/iy0voePQ-Lc/видео.htmlsi=G3RQgnEhKyz6oYiK
48:03 They state he's low on energy for being dormant and explains him charging is causing local electricity problems in seto inland sea.
@@Darthzilla99 Ayana wasn't really shown to call out to Gamera for help, and Gamera was never shown to try and link with Ayana.
Asagi made that statement because Ayana was connected with Iris and she was trying to get Ayana to realize it wasn't good.
I'm pretty sure Asagi says she no longer has a connection with Gamera in the second film.
Gamera being able to use his full flying form shows he was not low on energy at the time. He could have been drained after flying for a little bit, but he could have used that energy to either walk through the stadium or use his fire ball.
This especially doesn't make sense when Gamera was shown minutes before being able to walk through buildings and be able to quickly react to Gyaos right after rising out of the water.
It's mostly just a lack of consistency that makes these films confusing as well as relying on assumptions instead of clear visual or verbal examples.
@@Darthzilla99 Yes I went back and saw that was correct, since I hadn't seen the films in a while.
Even after listening to the flaws of the movies, I personally still think they are better. Personally I have always found the 90s gamera movies a 100x more enjoyable than the sluggish and overextended 90s Godzilla movies. I kinda just crack it down to how I felt after following both continuities. When I finish a heisei godzilla rewatch, I feel like I just got strapped to a chair and witnessed a steam of rewashed films with a ending that should make me feel something. When I finish a gamera rewatch I actually feel like I watched a story with a beginning, middle, and end that leaves me with chills and some satisfaction. I think most of that has to do with the better tone shifts and shorter run but that’s just me.
Well this video wasn't exactly to make one series better than the other. Although I do think the heisei godzilla films are better due to a lot of the points made in this video.
Yes pacing is a problem with the heisei godzilla films, mostly with the fights at times. But I think the amount of things they have the monsters and humans do makes up for that.
For me after watching the heisei gamera films I didn't even know what I watched, also due to points made in this video. Where the heisei godzilla films have a clear plot, with simple characters doing good with what they were going for.
But it mostly comes down to preference at the end of the day.
As much as I love the Heisei Gamera trilogy I can’t help but agree with you. These films are not perfect and get way too over praised too much. Kind of like how Kong Skull Island gets too over praised especially since I don’t like that film in the Monsterverse.
Although the Heisei Godzilla films aren’t perfect either they still have great moments despite their flaws. Even though I think the Heisei Gamera films are better than most of the Heisei Godzilla films and are some of the best kaiju films ever. Sadly there are scenes that haven’t aged well especially the use of green screen and cgi which are noticeable.
Great job on this video. We definitely need more videos like this because it does annoy me when people over praised something and don’t look at the flaws.
Yeah my main reason for making this is due to people only becoming critics when it comes to the Heisei Godzilla films.
Looking over the showa and millenium films completely, as well as the heisei gamera films.
An example being Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla where Godzilla's tail rips in one scene. But in the showa era there is a scene from Godzilla vs Hedorah where the suit actor's head breaks through Godzilla's neck during a close up on Godzilla's neck.
My biggest problem is for some reason the subtitles do not work on my Revenge of Iris DVD.. It's so annoying
Welp, this video is officially part of my "videos I wanted/anticipated" playlist which is in my youtube profile alongside other playlists of mine. Feel free to give my playlisys a look if you wish.
So you liked my explanation of the flaws with the films.
@@GSTE_ I do actually agree with a lot of your critisisms with the films (tho I should finish my rewatch of your vid before making my opinion of it), tho in this playlist I do put videos based on their concept (as in, if their idea is an idea I wanted to see explored in a video in general) (case in point, I wanted to see someone point out the flaws of the aheisei Gamera movies and I got just that) and whether or not the execution of said idea is good is a whole other thing.
Just a clarification.
Tho again, I actually agree with a very good chunk of your critisisms, so I'll most likely enjoy the vid.
Glad to see somebody mentioning the Flaws of the Heisei Gamera Trilogy, I'm so sick of Everyone Putting this Trilogy on some Pedestal and treating it like it's the Godfather, I find the Heisei Godzilla films way better, just because they aren't filled with Plot Holes and bc Godzilla is a way better Character than Gamera
In my opinion I don’t really like Gamera as much as Godzilla I don’t hate gamera i’m just not a fan of him as Godzilla I still wanna see Godzilla vs gamera but I’m pretty sure that will never happen
Thank you! I'm so glad I wasn't the only one with problems with the Heisei Gamera trilogy! Most of your points were the same as mine: some of the characters felt flat or confusing, the whole mana plot point in Gamera 3 felt completely out of left field, Gamera himself not being nearly as fun or interesting as in the Showa era, the humans surprisingly not trying to find ways to beat the enemy monster/exploit their weaknesses, and so on. I do feel the point about Gamera being a "villain" was exaggerated, but I will say it is contradictory writing-wise to have him not caring at all about collateral damage yet saves Ayana (the sole cause for Irys in the first place).
My personal thoughts on the trilogy is that they're average at best, the effects are the strong point, but the writing and story overall is a mess with many plot holes or isn't structurally sound. I do understand why people love the trilogy, however I'm not one of those people. The third film being my least favorite kaiju film in general due to how it infuriates me anytime I watch or talk about it.
Just finished watching the trilogy and I have to say, I do believe these movies to be some of the best in the genre, with most of the Heisei Gamera movies being better than most heisei Godzilla movies, with the exception of Vs Destroyah, vs MechaGodzilla and vs SpaceGodzilla in my opinion. I do agree with a lot of your points tho, I don't think they are too bad but there is some very valid criticism. Showa Gamera wasted little time in showing action and Gamera, while Heisei there's barely any time with Gamera or monsters at all. It is true that at least the human drama is interesting in these movies, but for a movie with Gamera in the title, I think I could use seeing more of it. The action is also pretty lackluster, the best one was definitely vs Legion while doing that slide thing, but with how little time we have with Gamera, even the climax with vs Iris felt underwhelming bevause of how little they actually fought. Godzilla's enemies and even Gamera's previous enemies would last way longer, having multiple rounds of long fights. Could use better clarity with the story and whatever mana is as well.
I don't really think the human story is done well. I think the Heisei Godzilla films characters are done well even though their overall plotlines aren't complex.
But the Heisei Gamera films are too complex and don't have the characters make logical choices or have a real story that has to do with the monsters or point of the film.
The only real benefit of the Heisei Gamera films is the down to earth feeling some of the characters and way they show the characters have.
I feel like the Heisei Gamera films basically took almost everything from the Heisei Godzilla films except did them worse. The only exception being that sliding scene you pointed out which I think was based on SpaceGodzilla hovering around Godzilla during the final battle which I think Gamera 2 showed it off better.
I think a lot of the problems with the films is the creator not really thinking about if things make sense.
And I think that is shown in the creator's statements made after the making of the films, such as "turtles not existing in the series" despite literal evidence in 2 of the 3 films. Such as the humans literally calling Gamera a turtle or models of tortoises.
I can see why people like the Heisei Gamera films, the humans feel down to earth and the monster scenes look realistic for the most part.
But the films just don't make sense, from the human characters to the monster scenes.
And while the monster scenes might look good at times, they don't really have much of substance due to a lot of things I mentioned in my criticism.
I personally think the Heisei Godzilla films have a lot of problems as well, which is why I am working on a criticism of those films.
@@GSTE_ I do agree, though I feel like the Gamera films are easier to watch and make the consequences of a Kaiju in your country a lot more apparent. Like, Godzilla films would make me waste time with something I don't care about, but the Gamera one would at least mane me follow a semi-decent character having a somewhat interesting plotline. I just wish we had way more Gamera action, man
@@arrestedsolidyhe77sp That's true, the Heisei Gamera films focus more on the impact on humans. But they don't really succeed at that since none of the characters they show are well done.
A good example of having impact with human characters is Godzilla minus one.
I think there are a lot of better things to watch in terms of story and characters than any Kaiju film. The only exception I would make is Ultra Q which is one of the most consistently interesting Kaiju media.
I would say if you want a deep story and amazing characters there are tons of old shows which have just that.
But I think the Heisei Godzilla films succeed at making the story and humans relate in some way to the monsters and Godzilla.
I don't really know what to say about the Heisei Gamera films being easier to watch, but something interesting I've seen with everyone who has watched the Heisei Gamera films or is a fan of them has no idea about key points in any of the films.
Which that is one of the reasons why "turtles not existing in the Heisei Gamera films" has been spread around by Heisei Gamera fans.
I think the Heisei Gamera films are almost unbearable to watch if you want to understand what your watching. For example who is the lady in Gamera 2 who is one of the main characters. The film doesn't explain this and all of the films have these problems.
@@GSTE_ yeah, I agree with what you say, I do still believe I can overlook some of these things because I can overlook showa gamera abd godzilla lmao, but yeah, it is not going to be a complete and utter masterpiece as Minus one is. Wouldn't put it in the top 10, not by a long shot, but probably a top 20 seems fair. I do also appreciate how violent these films get over the previous Godzilla ones. Need to watch The Brave and the anime to get a final view on gamera as a whole, Ultra Q looks really interesting! Been watching some Ultraman episodes, but I am tempted to skip to Ultra Q, would you recommend? I don't like skipping things
@@arrestedsolidyhe77sp Well it depends on what you like. I grew up with Ultraman a little bit, but I don't really think it holds up that well and it's extremely repetitive and kind of boring.
Ultra Q is basically the twilight zone with Kaiju, it's very weird and strange, but considering you think the Heisei Gamera films are pretty good I think you might like the mysterious tone of the series.
But all I can say is that I thought it was pretty good mostly due to every episode being different, which helps if one or two aren't that good.
But I wouldn't say Godzilla minus one is the best Godzilla film either, it has the best human story but it's Godzilla part is below what the average Godzilla film was able to do.
I also would say having confusing films in general don't really make for great films. But I know a lot of people like atmosphere more than substance or if things make sense.
Personally I don't think the Heisei Gamera films hold up in most ways, other than the special effects in Gamera 3.
Someone compares GxK to Minus One
Kaiju Fans: "YoU cAn'T cOmPeRe gXk tO mInUs oNe cUz tHeRe dIfFeReN'T mOvIeS"
Someone compares The Heisei Godzilla Era to the Heisei Gamera Trilogy
Kaiju Fans: *Silence*
They are mostly silent because they were the ones to compare the Heisei Gamera films to the Heisei Godzilla films first.
So my bringing up Heisei Godzilla is actually a necessity due to false information provided by many people in the past.
@@GSTE_ exactly their hypocrites 🙄
@@Godzilla-jr5gi you have to understand, they like Heisei Gamera and Showa Godzilla.
This means any criticism against it is objectively wrong.
They also don't like Heisei Godzilla, so they will use handpicked quotes, objectively false statements, and say things are bad for these films, but completely ignore it when it's done even worse in a film they like.
An example is how Ishiro Honda is known for how he doesn't like the Heisei Godzilla films.
Yet they don't even say his other quote on the Heisei Godzilla films.
"I don't really have a positive or negative opinion about them. The special effects technically are very sophisticated, but the films lack imagination. It seems as if all Toho is trying to do is show things being destroyed. I don't fault the members of the production department, though, because I know that that is what Toho's executives are demanding."
Also a reminder this quote was before Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 even came out, with Ishiro honda passing away before the film released. Yet people use this quote to insult the later Heisei Godzilla films when Ishiro honda was talking about the films from 1984 to 1992.
That's very different from Ishiro Honda thinking the heisei godzilla films are bad. But since it goes against their points that the Heisei Godzilla film's special effects were bad, they only handpick certain quotes to build their case.
Also because they like Showa Godzilla they don't mention how Ishiro Honda did not think humanizing Godzilla was good, with him saying...
"[Humanizing Godzilla] To me, what happened was not acceptable. Personally, I didn't want to do it, but the company demanded it. When you have to do it, then you have to it... I did the best I could with it, and Mr. Tsuburaya did his best as well. It was about that time Godzilla movies started to move toward a younger audience. [But] the fact that they decided to make Godzilla act like a human, it was not a good decision... This showed off the fact that it was a man in a suit. Bad idea."
I personally don't agree with Ishiro Honda about everything, but if people are going to use his quote against the Heisei Godzilla films, they should also use this one when talking about showa godzilla.
These people also try and paint Koichi Kawakita in a bad light, also using specific quotes that fit their points. While ignoring 90% of the quotes that put Koichi Kawaita and his work as high as the showa era's special effects director.
I think when talking about films you have to be willing to point out the flaws even in films you like.
GxK not being able to be compared to Minus One is just a coping mechanism for people who liked GxK there is no reason why you can't compare the two films
@@thebigbadrascal3398 exactly
"Shit! I have a nail stuck on my hand. Instead of pulling it out like a normal person would, I'm just gonna cut my entire arm off."
Blowing off your own arm to finish the fight was such a raw idea though
yo where would you rank godzilla in hell on a tier list for design
I don't really know, the design is basically a sharper 2002 Godzilla. So I would say it's an A or B.
okie
Your argument about the camera shots kinda baffled me. The heisei Godzilla movies never employed any kind of interesting camera work and relied on flat wide shots. The Gamera films use a much larger variety to convey the scale of the monsters and add to the action
I just saw your comment now, so sorry for the late response.
The Heisei Godzilla films did use a tons of creative camera work, which was lacking the showa Godzilla series.
Examples of this are point of view shots from the monsters, missiles, or tanks. Low and high angles, close ups, and shots behind or in front of the monsters. And some wide shots which show the city and monsters very well.
The Heisei Gamera films did not use as much variety, their shots consisted of close ups, extremely low angles which didn't show much, and a rare shot which showed the monsters.
These angles don't show the scale of the monsters, which is why you don't hear people talk about how these films made Gamera 40 meters tall which is half of his stated height.
A good comparison is Godzilla vs Destoroyah's opening scene which uses similar angles to Gamera 3, yet Godzilla vs Destoroyah has Godzilla be clear to see in almost every scene.
@@GSTE_ idk I just personally feel that the shots of the heisei Gamera films had more purpose. There’s other stuff I could go into like how i personally feel the characters of the Gamera films were more developed and interesting or how the Godzilla films in my opinion began to stagnate. But I’d say it would probably be better to agree to disagree
@@someidiot62 I would actually say the random low angles or camera shaking don't really have a purpose, other than to hide what is going on.
I think the characters are made more down to earth, but their actual stories, motivation, and what they actually do in the films make no sense.
The characters are not even close to being developed, for example the lady in Gamera 2 isn't even explained who she is, what she does, or how she has the power to advice military leaders.
And the same goes for many different characters.
You also have the fact that most of the characters are forgotten about by the end of the films.
The Heisei Godzilla films started off stagnant in terms of characters and story, with Godzilla 1984 and Godzilla vs Biollante. They got kind out of hand in Godzilla vs King ghidorah but leveled out in Godzilla vs Mothra.
Then the story and characters were at their best in Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2. The story quality went down a little bit in SpaceGodzilla but went almost up to the same level as MechaGodzilla 2 in vs Destoroyah.
I think it's fine to disagree, but I'm just sharing what I think about the films.
So how would you improve the Heisei Gamera Trilogy now you said your criticism?
Well I would improve a lot with both the story and monsters.
The first thing I would do is get rid of Gamera's flying wings. They are obviously just a copy of Destoroyah's flying form and looks goofy for a turtle.
I would have Ayana's connection to Gamera be explained both visually and verbally.
I would have scenes go from one thing to another more naturally also with visual or somewhat subtle verbal explanations.
I would have Gamera's eyes not so close to the front of his face, and I would have him not be extremely wide. I would give him a smaller head, hands, and more defined features.
This would have him look his actual height of 80 meters with or without buildings next to him.
I would create much smaller miniatures that are properly lit.
For the camera angles I would use multiple types, such as the ones used in the heisei godzilla films. Shoulder level, hip level, and at times ground level shots all aimed up at the monster to make them look tall.
I would also use point of view shots such as in the heisei godzilla films, for things such as planes, tanks, buildings, monsters, and helecopters.
I would also use another technique from the Heisei Godzilla films where the monster shoots their laser or fire directly at the screen.
I would create a partial suit for Gamera which can have it's arms go into it's shell, as well as it's head.
It doesn't have to be a full suit mainly just a little bit of the shell and a gamera arm or head.
I would use whatever the original gamera films used for Gamera's fire, only using smoke where the fire makes contact with the ground.
I'd give Legion and Iris defining features in their faces, giving them a mouth, eyes, teeth, and basic structure in their face in order to make them as identifiable as Gyaos or other Heisei Godzilla monsters such as Biollante or Destoroyah.
Speaking of Gyaos I would have him be weak to the sun, having it melt off his skin with blood or at least making him red.
For Gamera I would give him his original fire breath, or at least giving him a mix of a fireball and real fire. A good example is Koichi Kawakita's work with Rebirth of Mothra, giving Desghidorah a fire ball or real fire, which both looked just as powerful.
I would have Gamera use his fire on the monsters but not have it instantly destroy them.
I wouldn't have Gamera hugging or pushing the monsters the whole fight, I would have actual punches timed with set explosions on the monsters.
Making it so that the punches look more than rubber suits hitting each other.
For Ayana I would keep her family in the story and get rid of the two weird characters that do nothing for the story. I would also have you feel bad for Ayana's family and make it clear that Ayana is being tricked by Iris.
I would have Gamera attack Japan due to their pollution of the earth. Also having him absorb their energy such as electrical towers, smoke towers, and nuclear powerplants.
I would have Gamera be incredibly strong, with military attack not affecting him in any way. Making it so that the monsters he fights would seem to have no chance.
Which leads to the other monsters. I would have them be introduced by hurting Gamera badly in some way or another.
Gamera's fire, due to it not being an instant kill, would make the fight much more dramatic while also creating some cool looking scenes at night.
Since it was barely done in the Heisei Gamera films I would have Gamera bite the monsters he is fighting, having his tusks dig deep into the monsters and having him not let go similar to the original Gamera or real turtles such as snapping turtles.
I would give the monsters he fights hands with claws that can make it easier to create physical combat.
For the monsters lasers I would have them be extremely fast and more act like electricity with how fast them move, creating an electrical discharge within Gamera or whatever the lasers hit.
I would have Yukijiro Hotaru be more of a main character of the series, instead of having him be a side character and then forgetting about him at the end of Gamera Revenge of Iris.
I would keep the grounded feeling that these films have with the human characterssince I think that's their main advantage over other monster films. Showing the humans do daily activities such as shopping, eating, cooking makes the humans more personal.
For the theme I would focus on a menacing theme without the feeling of mystery. I would also like some beautiful theme for Gamera's victory over the monsters or when a monster changes forms.
Which leads to the monsters forms. I would have the monsters change forms at least once in the film, whether this be a sort of larva transformation or a constant changing throughout the film.
I would have it shown or verbally explained how and where these monsters came from. Possible due to ancient writings with paintings or showing the subtly showing the monster right in the beginning of the film waking up.
And that's some of what I would change, I know this is a literal essay, but you asked so I answered.
@@GSTE_ good answer as for what I think for the monsters Gamera and Gyaos backstories in the are the same Gyaos are made to stop pollution but started eating humans once there purpose is do or do to the fact they used bat dna to make them, Legion would be a bio weapon made by a very old alien race that wanted to colonize Earth when Atlantis was still around and Iris would be a prototype for Gamera but was uncontrollable do to its brain chemistry being made once someone links with it and will want your life force and body to become powerful and get DNA from other Kaiju to get new abilities but that is what I would do in the Kaiju backstory wise
@@brockbooth630 I think that story is a little bit too complicated.
I think a better way to have it would be to have a more simple origin for the monsters.
Such as if Legion was from space a good way to show that would be to show a meteor landing on earth from space.
And then after the explosion of the impact you can get closer to the impact zone and then you can play the monster's roar and cut to a black screen.
I feel like the origins of the monsters being created by Atlantis or mysterious aliens is too complicated and there would be no realistic way the humans could find out the exact origins of the monsters if they were done that way.
That's why I don't like the story of the Heisei Gamera films, basically they were just making it up as they went along, not even having a good explanation for what happens in the film itself and leaving it to the next one to give a bad explanation.
Gamera being created by Atlantis is far less interesting than the original Gamera. The fact that these monsters that roamed the earth long ago could just pop up randomly has always fascinated me.
Such films like Gojira, Godzilla 1984, Gamera 1965, and the beast from 20,000 fathoms having this quality is a reason they stand out to me.
But that's just what I think.
Although I don't like the Heisei Gamera films, I must admit that they are the reason I starting looking into films more and started talking about movies.
@@GSTE_ I know they never planed it out to begin with they wanted Godzilla to show up at one point plus like 10 movies I mean if that happened the story will hopefully get good and not be so random and maybe we get to see the Kaiju from the showa era plus the turtles where never a thing in the Gamera trilogy and Gamera and Iris where part of the Chinese mythology seasons like Gamera is Winter and Iris is Fall meaning there be Tiger Kaiju for spring and a Dragon Kaiju in summer plus Gamera backstory sounds like a W.M.D
@@brockbooth630 I think "turtles not existing in the heisei gamera films" is a perfect example of heisei gamera fans not understanding the films and allowing their assumptions to fill in the plot holes.
Turtles do exist in the Heisei Gamera films and it's actually very obvious. Literally when discovering Gamera is actually called Gamera they refer to him as "the turtle".
Also in Revenge of Iris there is a model of a tortoise on someone's desk.
This statement was completely made up by the director after the films were made, which just proves my point about things being made up as they went along.
Making the films even individually feel like your missing key information.
Do you think you can do a video putting Final Wars Goji in a gauntlet against some of the heavy hitters of the heisei era? I feel there are enough differences between Final Wars Goji and Heisei Goji to consider them separate Gojis and am interested where you think FWG stands. I personally consider him towards higher tiers of the Heisei era but I think he hits a stone wall when he gets to the tier of power that kaijus like Super Mecha Goji, Burning Goji, Space Goji, Moguera and Destoroyah reach. Basically I think he is stronger than normal Heisei but significantly weaker than Burning.
The thing is Final Wars would basically do about as well as Legendary Godzilla, and since I kind of just did a video on that topic I think doing one for Final Wars would be extremely repetitive.
So I don't know.
The amount of bad takes I see in just a month is genuinely impressive
So you mean the amount of takes you don't agree with. Just because I don't agree with you on these films doesn't mean my thoughts on the series are bad.
I agree with this. One time I watched Gamera 3 and I was so confused as to why the humans where around baby Irirs when they knew he was dangerous and Gamera ripping his arm of wasted soooo much time! He could have just broken the spike!!! But no!!! He rips his arm off!
I remember my 2nd grade teacher showing me one of these films. And all I can remember is “A space turtle, some aliens, and a kid do something”.
I think I saw Gamera revenge of iris (or at least the final fight) when i was a kid, and the only thing I remember is one of the human characters looking at the monsters in the darkness, which looked a lot better from what I remember.
So... basically every Gamera. (Except the first one)
@@DOOMZILLA2-f3b Well the first three Showa Gamera films were just monsters from earth, and I don't think Gamera vs Barugon had any kids in the film.
I saw all 3 movies over and over again, and I've still been doing it since 2020
@@GSTE_ Gamera vs Barugon had an interesting human plot about a man being so consumed by greed that it leads to the release of Barugon and personally I found that more interesting than Gamera vs Gyaos attempting to do the same greed commentary with the confusing motives of the village people protesting the construction workers
Somebody finally had the guts to take this trilogy to task (even if my own reasons for not fawning over it differ somewhat from yours). Glad to see you're not getting dogpiled in the comments. We're all entitled to our own preferences and peak kaiju/ tokusatsu cinema can entail many different things for many different people, no matter what some particularly pushy and precocious contingents in this fandom might insist.
Yeah that's true. But I mostly wanted to put together something that pointed out the flaws in the series, and not small things like a mess up with the suits or animation.
Personally I like a lot of things these films did, but I think they put too many things on the line in order to do that, such as the worst model scaling I've ever seen, worst story for all films, and the most confusing film progression, as well as the least creative combat.
I have no problem with people saying it's the best series, but I don't like when the same people criticize the Heisei Godzilla films using those films as an example. When as shown here just these three films have a lot of problems.
But that's just my thoughts on it.
What are your issues with these movies?
Hey when are you coming back? To settle Destroyah vs Shimo
I've been working on a vid, so I'll see what happens after I finish it.
@@GSTE_ really looking forward to legit information 🔥
Who would win heisei Godzilla or heisei gamera
Godzilla easily
A more even fight would be Godzilla 1998 vs Heisei Gamera.
@@GSTE_ hmmmmmm actually wait what sony Godzilla vs heisei gamera why?
@@EfrainLopez-hl1nz Heisei Gamera has shown to be vulnerable to missiles. As well as monsters able to hurt heisei godzilla having limbs cut off by normal missiles.
Godzilla 1998 although is weak to missiles, is fast and smart enough to make the fight close.
Any other Godzilla is not affected by missiles, which is why Heisei gamera wouldn't really have a good battle against them, being easily beaten.
@@GSTE_ oh ok
"Yes, you all are wrong"
I don't recall saying that.
@@GSTE_ it's a reference to a meme
*You criticitezed the lord and savior, prepare for an angry hord*
If you have some disagreements with my points, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
@@GSTE_ I haven't watched the movies yet, just made a joke.
Yo, GSTE. I'm gonna be making a video of my own in a month or so. It's titled, "Could Heisei Destroyah Survive The Monsterverse?" Since MV is making their own Destroyah in an upcoming movie, I thought, why not use the original? Have a good day, man!
If you need some information about Destoroyah I could tell you things he was able to do in the film.
@@GSTE_ Well, thank you, man! Please do, bro!
@@J.Dome.A Destoroyah's mutation started instantly after he was exposed to oxygen by a construction crew.
After that he mutated into the Destoroyah that fought burning Godzilla about a week later.
An example of his mutation during battle is when Godzilla exploded Destoroyah's chest and knocked him out with a few blasts of atomic breath.
After a few minutes Destoroyah returned and was able to handle a much stronger version of Burning Godzilla's heat ray, although he was eventually overwhelmed.
Destoroyah is able to drain any monster's energy almost instantly.
His laser breath is not just based on oxygen life forms. The power of this oxygen destroyer is said to be able to penetrate any metal, and even in it's weakest microscopic form it was able to melt an elevator shaft.
Destoroyah although being officially 120 meters tall, is closer to 130 when standing up all the way.
Destoroyah is physically very strong, with him overpowering Godzilla more than any monster before. With both Heisei Godzilla and SpaceGodzilla being able to lift 150,000 and 160,000 Metric tons very easily.
Destoroyah's laser horn was shown to have more of an effect than any weapon in the Heisei era, with even a laser multiple times stronger than Godzilla's atomic breath only stunning him.
Destoroyah is very intelligent, yet lacks any motivation for what he does. Even in the heisei era where monster just destroy each other without a reason, Destoroyah goes after anything that moves.
Destoroyah also does not have a weakness to cold temperatures like some people think. In one of his weaker forms he was able to handle multiple freezer mazers without any effect.
Only after handling an atomic breath much more powerful than any monster has faced before, plus the power of around 12 mazer tanks, and the super x3 was it able to knock him out of the sky.
And to be honest the fall probably only knocked him out.
Godzilla's meltdown is probably what disintegrated his remains, as shown in a deleted scene where Destoroyah actually gets up from the ground and Godzilla instantly evaporates him to dust.
And that's about it.
@@GSTE_ True facts. His height starts around 130ft tall, then after the mutation, he grows to 393ft tall. Plus, considering that MV Godzilla wouldn't beat SpaceGodzilla, he definitely won't beat Destroyah in the MV. Kong with his axe, though....
@@J.Dome.A I think I said 130 meters tall. For a refence Legendary Godzilla is 119 meters tall, and Heisei Godzilla is 100 meters tall.
They’re pretty good, I think but not better than Godzilla
I agreed on a lot of the things you point out here but i have to say about Gyaos weakness being light is true and the reason why she was able to nest at tokyo tower in her super gyaos form is that she has more layers of eyelid to fix her weakness to light and about gamera got hurt by missile thing I like to point out that while it did indeed knock him over he did not take any visible damage and in gamera guardian of the universe he just woke up and really weak and he did get more durable as in later movies hyper gyaos's (which is even stronger than super gyaos) laser bounce of his skin while in gamera guardian of the universe he got visible damage from not even super gyaos last thing in revenge of iris gamera's connection to humanity via magatama is gone and he was desperate trying to hunt down gyaos around the world so it kinda make sense that he cant care that much of human's life there also that one time he "save" the child was shot so that it looks like he save that child by accident or wasn't intended to do so but that's just me beside things I yapping about here I agree to all other point but I still love this trilogy
Well a lot of my problems with these films is the assumptions needed to have anything make sense.
For example Gyaos was shown multiple times, including Gyaos' first scene flying around during the day time. If Gyaos was truly sensitive to light, it would only go out after sunset or around that time.
Gamera was shown throughout the series to be weak to missiles. Being knocked down twice in Guardian of the Universe, and knocked out of the sky temporarily in Revenge of Iris.
Also as for the Gyaos laser not affecting him. It's possible this is a weaker or younger version. Due to it's size not being as large as the 1995 version.
@@GSTE_ Yeah juvenile gyaos just vibing during the day is not making that much sense but about Gamera and missile like I said in both cases he did get knocked down but have no visible injury and about gyaos in revenge of iris I believe it is call hyper gyaos and from what I remember it is stronger than super gyaos in GOTU and I really think it is indeed stronger like the first hyper gyaos got hit with fireball and take fall damage but still alive although barely and second hyper gyaos take 3 hits from fireball while super gyaos in GOTU got 1 shot with a fireball and I like to point out that Gamera did get more durable in later film like I said in GOTU he bleed from not even full size gyaos's laser but in revenge of iris he takes hyper gyaos's laser without any injury
@@yttycantreallydrinktoomuchmilk That's a good point, I didn't think about that Gyaos being able to handle multiple fire blasts.
But Gamera not having physical injury doesn't really mean much when he was still knocked down while standing up or flying. While Showa Gamera is unaffected by nuclear explosions, with missiles bouncing off of him.
Also the part I mentioned in the vid where monsters that can be destroyed with a few bullets were able to take Gamera down and make him bleed also supports Gamera being weak to missiles as well.
This is again shown when the same bugs that beat up Gamera were destroyed by a few missiles.
@@GSTE_ Yeah Showa Gamera is stronger than Heisei one and about Legion soldiers there are like thousands of them I don't think there's much Gamera could do at that point he didn't have any abilities to counter it he can't even see where he is and I don't think tucking his limbs in to take flight while hundreds of bugs still crawling is a good idea he did bleed from it tho and if I have to imagine the damage it did it probably like thousands of needles wounds not that serious of injuries but you still bleed from it and yeah Legion as a whole don't seem to be that durable but they can do a lot of damage so they're kinda like glass cannon I guess
@@yttycantreallydrinktoomuchmilk Well Gamera could have tried to rip off the bugs using his hands. Even Godzilla was able to get one of the destoroyah crabs off of his back with his hands.
And Gamera is supposed to be more mobile than Heisei Godzilla.
It would be the equivalent to ants being able to knock down a bear and make it bleed.
I just wish they made the fights even as good as the heisei godzilla films, because the amount of things that happen in Godzilla's fight against Destoroyah is more than about half of the fights of the heisei gamera series put together.
gamera did not step on those people gyaos small hand crushed the people gamera cant step on people walk around gyaos and shoot the gyaos point blank range
My main point wasn't about Gamera stepping on people, but also that he shot fire into the city and walked through the city instead of flying over it.
@@GSTE_ ok
Showa gamera is taller then most of the ultramen. Now that's crazy.
His fights are also some of the most violent Kaiju fights I have seen, making the fights of the Heisei Godzilla, Heisei Gamera, and later showa era look tame compared.
@@GSTE_ true but I find it kinda weird that the size inconsistency in the heisei gamera films. All in all a pretty good video you made dude.
@@ThomasKubera Well I'm pretty sure I know why the makers of Heisei Gamera did it that way.
Having a smaller monster makes it easier to create realistic miniatures, because the details on the models won't need to be as small.
But having Gamera stated to be taller than 60 meters and officially 80 meters tall and then having him go from 40 to 30 meters tall in the film is probably the worst model work I've ever seen.
Yes they are more detailed than the Godzilla models, but it's only due to them making them more than 2 times larger than they should be.
Also thanks, some people didn't like my criticism of the Heisei Gamera films, saying that I was saying the films are unwatchable and bad.
They were also coming up with every excuse under the sun for literally everything I said, even saying Gamera cutting off his hand made sense.
Making a 3 hour stream about my 16 minute video, and calling my video a "bad faith" video.
When I find that pretty interesting considering I did not say anything objectively wrong, sure they may disagree with my conclusion about certain things.
But other people who criticize the Heisei Godzilla films say objectively incorrect things about the films and film makers, either giving part of the story or just flat out lies.
That is the definition of something made in "bad faith".
Yet because they think the Heisei Godzilla films are bad they say nothing about it.
I know I kind of went on a little rant here, but I just wanted to explain that a little bit.
@@GSTE_ I used to think the reason tho granted is that he was trapped but yeah there were more better solution but gamera was thinking right. And yeah I find more problem's with the heisei gamera films than the Godzilla one's as I think more and more. Honestly I liked gamera 2 more than g1 and g3 but even then it's has flaws.
Second the camera angles in the heisei goji films are better shot in my personal opinion.
The story wise again heisei Godzilla takes it. For most that say heisei gamera was are people howling that who pretty the actress are imo. If any most people who talk about the important of humans in Kaiju film are valid it wouldn't surprise me if most of them are simping for the actress even tho there married. Rude I know.
@@ThomasKubera Well I don't know about that last part, but I will 100% agree on the camera angles.
The Heisei Godzilla films for years now have been falsely claimed to only use eye level wide shots and useless close ups.
When the reality is that the Heisei Godzilla films had the most creative angles in the Godzilla franchise up to that point.
They used angles from the monsters perspective whether that be if they are flying or walking. They use low angles, and mostly an angle called a "medium full shot" done at a little bit of a lower angle.
The films also use angles with the monsters shooting atomic breath or laser right at the camera, and camera angles behind the monsters showing the monster they are looking at.
These angles are used throughout the Heisei Godzilla films.
I think I know why people like the Heisei Gamera films and their story. It's the same reason why they can even understand a little bit of the story and plot.
Assumptions. You can tell this by talking to them or when they repeat what you say. They take what is spoken or shown and twist it to match their thoughts.
An example being when I said "and this next point makes these films unwatchable for me".
They take this as me saying that the films are unwatchable for everyone.
Another example of how they twist what is in the films.
I'll use a piece of conversation I had with one of them.
They said that Miki Saegusa from Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla wouldn't care if a giant dog destroyed thousands of people in front of her.
When in the film all it showed was that she didn't want Godzilla to be destroyed, yet she still tried to do things like mind control, and even in Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla 2 she was the one who blew up Godzilla's brain.
In response to this my points were called "nonsense" as well as some other things.
I then responded with "You literally said Miki wouldn't care if a giant dog destroyed thousands of people"
But yeah, a main thing wrong with the Godzilla fandom is fans who assume everything under the sun for films they like, yet don't even get the facts right for films they don't like.
7:58 honestly that's a good thing. we need more smaller kaiju
The main problem is the films and official information say he's a lot taller than that.
And the design does not suit a smaller monster.
@@GSTE_ the point about the design is more subjective but yeah the actual scaling could have been done better
@@callmeishmael5742 True, but naturally having a larger head and wider body is widely known by film makers to make something look smaller.
Proportions when it comes to monsters are very important.
@@GSTE_ fair
@@GSTE_ I mean, official Toho sizes often don't line up with what we see onscreen. Showa Ghidorah is NOT twice as tall as Godzilla, Showa Gigan isn't taller than Titanosaurus, Gorosaurus is officially listed as 35 meters, which is way too short for DAM and way too tall for King Kong Escapes...
And it's not just the Showa series. Heisei almost uses "120 meters" as a placeholder height. Moguera is allegedly 120 meters, 20% taller than Godzilla, but look at them next to each other and that's clearly not true.
"Official stats" like that really just feel like some numbers a bored intern typed out and I hope they don't influence anyone's enjoyment of kaiju films.
Revenge of iris was good though
I have never seen Heisei Gamera, but this video was great!
Da turtle
Gamera never was better than Godzilla. But for fans, the giant turtle had some decent movies.
Wow. Some comments are real butt hurt that you have a different opinion on Hesei Gamera. I honestly don't mind the debate on the Gamera trilogy vs the entire Heisei universe or something, but the fact that people can get THIS offended is kinda wild
Considering the Heisei Gamera fans I've talked to over the years this comment section was much better than I figured.
@@GSTE_ That's...... Concerning.
@@samueljohnkennethrollno3528 Now if you really want to see a hint of what I was talking about look up "Writers Righting the Wrongs of Heisei Gamera Hot Takes"
Where it's basically two youtubers spending 3 hours saying "that's what the film makers were trying to do" while hinting at me being biased towards the end of the stream and basically grasping onto anything they can to try and discredit my points, video editing, and overall channel.
But even then I've talked to some people who were much more unfriendly than any of these in the comments section.
@@GSTE_ That's even more concerning. Guess the Godzilla community isn't the only Kaiju fanbase that's reaching high toxicity levels.
I mean, if videos like this were around a year ago; when I started to really learn about Kaiju, I would honestly be alot less open minded. It's a little shameful for me to admit but yeah. I would have been a real douche back then.
@@samueljohnkennethrollno3528 The first thing I would like to say is that not all Heisei Gamera fans are like what I describe.
Now I'll respond to what you said.
The Godzilla and Gamera fandom has been like this for a while.
People think films they like are perfect and any criticism is wrong, while films they don't like can have false things said about the films or purposely twisted information and no one will say anything.
This has been going on for years with the criticism of the Heisei Godzilla films from Heisei Gamera fans.
Yet the criticism they give for the heisei Godzilla films are very selective and don't apply to any other films such as the showa godzilla films or heisei gamera films.
Usually these types of Godzilla fans like to call themselves "tokusatsu" fans or something like that.
If you disagree with them then you are objectively wrong, have bad taste, are biased and don't understand film.
But unlike a lot of other Godzilla fans who just say vague criticisms or present barely any arguments, these "Tokusatsu" and more specifically Heisei Gamera fans are very well spoken, and can argue about as much as me.
But the difference is that when backed into a corner due to a lot of their points not matching what happened in the film or the facts they will either not answer or use insults to deflect.
A good example being "wow, you know nothing about (whatever the topic is), it's obvious that (whatever they claimed happened) in the film."
This is why I personally find Heisei Gamera fans the most frustrating to deal with, and also a reason why the comments you see here are about half as what I might see in one lone discussion with a Heisei Gamera fan.
Hey con you make a video of
G24 vs Kong 24
Cuz keep kong fans saying he beats Godzilla
Bc in Egypt kong knocks out Godzilla can you prove them worng
Kong does not beat Godzilla but Kong is strong in his own way
I was going to leave a comment breaking down how utterly wrong nealry every point you make here is, but that is going to require more than just a comment
you can list your thoughts if you want.
Wow OK first off why the heck would you let other people inform your opinions before seeing them for yourself. And while the series has plenty of issues. Especially in the last film. But my God dude you're complaining about not having context when context is given.
Jeez you're straight up the type of person who needs everything explained to you. So many of your issues aren't even issues. You just need to pay better attention to the film for a lot of issues.
Well because I hadn't seen or heard of the films and people told me they were the best Kaiju films.
Which is why I bought them to watch them for myself.
So your saying I need to make assumptions of what's happening in order for it to make sense. All the things I explained there were no or barely any context given. The main characters adopted family in Revenge of iris isn't even talked about after they are killed by iris except for a short flashback at the end.
The military shoots down legion only for it to instantly cut to the next day.
The military are about to shoot at the legion bugs two different times and it cuts to something else.
The bird scientist is last seen in a meeting, and the next time you see her she is saving a kid on a random island.
If there was any context I'd be interested in hearing it.
The humans act like they have seen these monsters before, not even talking about how a giant turtle can fly. They act like gyaos being able to reproduce is more important, when you have a giant turtle that can shoot fire, fly and doesn't care about humans.
They decide he's good because some ancient writings that say Gamera the cradle of time will awaken to stop gyaos or something like that.
And just from that alone they decide the giant turtle is Gamera, and the bird is gyaos.
For almost anything in these movies to make sense it requires a lot of assumptions of things not even in the films.
@GSTE_ did you actually pay attention to the films while watching. Because again it really seems like you didn't. First off "they" don't decide that Gamera is good. The military and government attack him in both the 1st and third film as the priority over the Gyaos and Irys. They constantly see him as a threat. It's Nagamine and others like Asagi who see that Gamera is here to protect/defeat the Gyaos or other monsters.
You do realize things are mentioned in dialog while they are on their way to meet with Nagamine in the first film. We don't have to have everything spelled out for us in films. You are sadly sommedia illiterate or just don't pay attention while watching the films. Because so much of what you complain is addressed or nonexistent in the films as issues.
Her "adopted" family is brought up later in the film.
They don't react like they've seen giant monsters before they are in awe and shock upon seeing Gamera. Are you for real? Again they do treat gamera as the main threat and Nagamine is the one pushing for them to investigate treat the Gyaos as the threat they are. They are an invasive destructive species that eat and attack humans. They reproduce at such rapid rates as we see in 3.
You also have Asagi who is Gamera's connection to humanity in the first two films. They literally spell so much out for you in the films. It's not all just stuff you have to assume or guess at knowing.
My other issues about you having not seen these before and having opinions on them without seeing them. You can obviously see what others have said and see if you agree with them. But you've went along with the opinion of them being so great without actually seeing them. It's such a problem in this fanbase where people just let others decide for them without ever having seen the films themselves
@@gogeta492 I was talking about the main characters when saying that the humans decide Gamera is good, not the military.
Ok, explain to me where it was talked about that Ayana's family was destroyed by Iris. You would think when trying to convince Ayana to not go along with Iris that this would have came up.
Her adopted family was shown in a short flashback after everything already happened.
Your explaining the reproduction of Gyaos. Not Gamera being able to fly, shoot fire, or the fact that he can even stand up.
Films like shin godzilla go into this a lot better.
Unlike most Godzilla films no previous monsters were shown to be known by humans before Gamera and Gyaos.
Which makes it incredibly strange no questions were asked.
So your saying Shin Godzilla spelled everything out and that's a bad thing.
Literally Shin godzilla is a perfect example that I should have brought up in my video. They go into detail not just about his evolution, but about his nuclear fission, atomic breath, and future abilites.
Asagi lost her connection to Gamera at the end of Guardian of the Universe. As stated when she says she can't feel Gamera anymore.
Having high hopes for a films because close friends and other people say it's the best films of the genre doesn't mean I let them think for me.
I guess I could have stated it better in the vid, but this is what I meant.
Unlike those people you talk about, I actually bought the films and came to my own conclusion about them after watching them multiple times individually at different times.
@GSTE_ lol, no, you weren't being clear on that. And guess what it's spelled out and shown very clearly. Because of Asagi's connection, the fact he saves humans and doesn't eat them like Gyaos or the fact that they translated the stone tablet. But the government is more focused on protecting the gyaos because of their perceived rarity.....again watch the movie and pay attention
Lol, we literally see Ayana's family's house destroyed, and we see a shriveled husk as remains of one of her relatives. We literally see Iris doing this to a girl not long after. It's only shown in a flashback because Ayana is connected and see it through Iris' pov. Again, pay attention to the movie.
Please, shin Godzilla barely goes into anything involving godzilla and most is just guessing they don't know for sure. See you've just shown your problem. You're the type of simpleton who needs everything explained in great detail for you to understand anything. It's a giant monster. We don't need its entire physiology explained in the film to enjoy it or accept its existence.
Yea gamera severs the symbiotic relationship to Gamera in the ending of the film. But the ties are cut completely in Legion when Gamera is revived.
Yeah thats not how it came across in the video.
And I'm not saying you don't own them or haven't seen them. I'm saying you clearly haven't paid all that much attention to them while watching these films as most of your "issues" are fairly well gone into over the three films.....
GSTE, you are famous...somewhat. Take a look at Omni Viewer's newest community post.
I just watched it. And well, yeah at times their points sounded like trying to come up with any excuse to show I'm wrong.
But I guess everyone thinks different, so yeah I'm not going to insult them or anything or say that they are heisei gamera fans or insult their work.
Which apparently disagreeing with someone on if a film is good using specific points is justification enough to do so.
What do you think about it.
@@GSTE_ Haven't look at the stream just yet or your video for that matter.
Combination of not those being my priority, not as much time as I hoped for and horrible time management skills on mu behalf
@@vaggos2003 Well I'll just summarize some of the extreme stuff said about me.
Throughout the stream they compare me to Doctor skipper and his (a specific term that I won't use) rant.
They also say I'm biased towards Heisei Godzilla and they "confirm" this by looking at my videos and saying all I talk about is Heisei Godzilla hinting that my opinion on these films aren't valid due to that as well as all my points being objectively wrong.
They try and excuse what they are saying by saying "he might be a nice guy" to then continue and insult me and my hard work.
They also talk down on my script being poorly written and how it's giving them whiplash due to the transitions of topics.
In the beginning they talk down on my channel saying I have low subscribers and that I was trying to punch up towards larger youtubers.
And the worse one is where they literally twist my words saying that I am telling people the films are unwatchable and they aren't good.
When I literally say "which makes these films unwatchable for me personally". And I also tell people to watch it for themselves to come to their own conclusion.
Which somehow they even take that negatively. Saying that I didn't "stick to my guns" and that they would have respected me more if I didn't completely change my mind and being hypocritical by saying the heisie gamera films did good in certain areas like the special effect sand quality of models.
When in reality this is not contradicting my points in any way. Unlike other people I'm not going to say films aren't good, since that is an objective statement.
I personally found their words about me and my work offensive, although I will admit when I was more immature I used to say similar things about people who didn't like the heisei godzilla films.
This isn't even all of what they said.
But this only solidifies my thoughts on Heisei Gamera fans not being able to understand when other people disagree with them. And thinking themselves and their preferences are objectively right.
How can a community grow if anyone who disagrees with them is insulted and put down.
@@vaggos2003 But that's just my thoughts on it.
Finally someone speaks the truth
Hi
Hello
I feel like these movies have poor fight scenes with a lack of real action
Well it's obvious guardian of the universe isn't a great film..
Gamera Rebirth > Heisei Gamera Trilogy
bro rebirth got even more flaws than the heisei one
"When a Turtle was Better than Godzilla" Or "How Gamera Beat Godzilla at his own Game" Yeah not in a million years, Gamera will always be inferior to Godzilla
I agree with you. Okay granted, I've only seen 3 Gamera movies, (Gamera the Brave, The original and cancer. AKA Gamera Not so Super Monster) but out of those three movies, I only like Gamera the Brave. Even still, it's like a 6.5\10, while Gamera Giant Monster (I think's called that) is like a 4\10. Gamera Not so Super Monster is a 1\10. It makes Godzilla's Revenge look like Godzilla-1 in comparison. but a world where Gamera is better than Godzilla is a false one.
It really just seems thst your mad that the gamera trillogy is better recieved than the hiesie godzilla films, like holy fuck man your coping to the next reality by saying gamera will never be better than godzilla when these films prove otherwise cuz I doubt the mv is better, hell gamera best godzilla with a better anime earth trilogy is ass and singular point is a weird show that is so confusing that you just Beg for the monsters to re appear cuz you dont want to listen about some physics bullshit
Hello there, GSTE. I quite like you and your content, and I agree with so many things you elaborate upon. I was wanting to see if you'd like to do a quick and brief collaboration with a friend on an upload on Godzilla upcoming.
I'd like to break the details down more privately, so I was wanting to know if you have Discord, Instagram, etc., to explain the details. That is, if you're interested at all in the first place. Let me know, dude!
I don't really use anything but youtube. If you want to talk we can talk here.
I might consider a collaboration but I don't know who or what your talking about.
If you want to talk more we can do it here.
@@GSTE_ Ok, now that you'll consider a collaboration, I'll elaborate.
Not much I want to reveal on myself, just a personal thing so sorry. I do love the Godzilla franchise, loved it ever since I was a child and I quite love your content and art. I agree massively with many things you elaborate upon.
As for the collaboration, there is a RUclipsr who you might know known as Godzilla King of the Monsters www.youtube.com/@godzillakingofthemonsters5812/videos. He powerscales Godzilla and other characters, and has got to be the single most knowledgeable and best Godzilla powerscaler and debater out there. Godzilla King of the Monsters is making a new upload as we speak, another one that is in regards to Heisei Godzilla vs Legendary Godzilla, and why Heisei Godzilla pretty noticeably takes the win.
This particular upload won't be as powerscaling-based analytically and more about basic showing, analysis-wise, using a lot of the basics, good explanations, lore, and guides, etc. I bring this up because you mention in your uploads about how Godzilla Y does in universe Z, you don't want to powerscale too much due to controversy, which is perfectly fine.
He is getting many people to elaborate and talk about sections, such as who strikes harder or who has a better beam, etc., and I brought up bringing you up on his channel to collaborate and read a script portion, at which he was on board since he's fine with you. The guests also have an end section where they explain the matchup and who they think wins (All of which agree Heisei wins, you included).
You have quite a few thousand subscribers already, so I was wondering if you'd like to join this collaboration and send me a video of you voicing some lines for a category of the upcoming upload, as well as your thoughts of why Heisei wins, which will be featured at the end. Credit and thanks obviously will be given.
The clip being sent to be used in the upload is sort of why I'd want to talk about this more privately like a gmail, which I can send mine first if you personally like that, but we can continue this on RUclips, and more importantly, if you actually feel up to it. You do not have to do this, you obviously have your own decision which I will respect either route, but I just wanted to throw this out there, as a fan of you of course!
@@user-oy2vh1xw7o Well I don't know If I can do that. Although I have watched his stuff before, I don't like the use of strong language in his vids.
I also don't like being apart of something I don't know about completely.
So I don't think I will be apart of it, although It sounds very interesting.
But thanks for watching, and I'm happy you like my videos. I don't know what the other thing you wanted to talk about but I'm willing to listen if you want to talk.
If you don't want anyone seeing it you can go to one of my random older videos and write it there.
@@GSTE_ That is fair enough. I think the other thing I was wanting to elaborate upon was simply just more details about the upcoming upload. Regardless if less curse words are used in this new one and if I elaborate the whole thing, I respect your opinion regardless.
Still, I am a fan, so I'm excited to see the next one, I'll be watching!
@@user-oy2vh1xw7o well anyways what did you think of this vid.
Honestly. You just come across as a godzilla fanboy, spurned and butthurt that this trilogy (especially gamera 3) is better recieved than most godzilla movies.
I've been watching Kaiju films since you were still crapping diapers. No movie is perfect all will have flaws, but this trilogy is as close to perfect as a kaiju film series can get.
The first thing that I will say is that my age doesn't have anything with my criticism of these films.
But unlike a lot of other Godzilla fans I have been watching Godzilla, the showa gamera films, and monster films for most of my life and far before 2014 when America was reintroduced to Godzilla.
I grew up watching the Showa Gamera films, so when people said these films were better than the Godzilla films I looked into them and didn't come to the same conclusion.
But I'll say that saying how you are older than me and then starting off your argument by saying I'm a "godzilla fanboy" and "butthurt" isn't a good way to show that.
I already explained in this video what I view as the flaws in these films, and I think most Godzilla films don't have as many flaws as the ones I've mentioned here, even the ones I don't think are good.
For people who like the Heisei Gamera films the same judgement used for certain Godzilla films don't apply to the Heisei Gamera films, despite these films being compared to each other.
If you don't view these things I explained as flaws or major parts of the film then that's alright, but you could actually respond with counter points instead of assuming I'm a "godzilla fanboy" and bragging about your age.
Y'know, the nice thing with these kind of ad hominem arguments is that they can be easily flipped back. You come across as just a Gamera fanboy spurned and butthurt that movies you like are being criticized. If you have actual valid arguments that address his criticisms, make them.