This is how i see it: Dressrosa king kong gun does 100 damage but Kaido's defense is like 200 so he takes no dmg from it. Sonic scythe does like 10 dmg but it ignores defenses so it actually hits for 10. But this only works vs Kaido or Big Mom, no other top tier has defense even close to those 2. If Dressrosa Luffy hit a clean King Kong gun on Mihawk it would hurt WAYY more than a sonic scythe.
Absolutely love your videos and content. You always keep it fair, with rarely any bias and always have lots of information/evidence for most of your statements. Keep up the great work
Finally someone who understands how the power balance works in One Piece... And I'm not saying that because I have the same take as you (; I'm not saying Jack beats Akainu, just that if every admiral is as strong as an emperor, then sick, old, almost hakiless Whitebeard without his second and fourth commander, went to fight the equivalent of 3 Kaidos, backed up by a fleet admiral and the Shishibukai...
11:20 Normally I would agree that a characters durability wouldn’t inherently translate 1 to 1 with their AP/striking power, as they simply may not be able to hit are hard as what they can take. In the case of One Piece though, especially with Haki feats, Rayleigh stated in ch 597 that a stronger defense would naturally result in stronger attack power. So any durability feats for Haki should translate to a character’s AP as well. That aside I appreciate your analysis of the Katakuri fight; way to many people overstate Kat’s advantages over Luffy, a lot of it definitely came down to his future sight and his devil fruit abilities geared for evasion.
Bro keep cooking , guys like you who don’t follow the mass agendas are the RUclipsrs that we need , the balance of the world is 1 yonko crew = the full marine And it don’t come from me but literally by oda himself.
love your passion and content and thought process, definitely gonna keep watching, even though I disagree with your take on sabo but I just think we haven't seen enough, but can't disagree with your logic
Hey man I loved this stream and arguing with people. (it was in good fun lol) But I did miss a good portion of it because it was storming where I live.
I don't agree with the katakuri takes, for starters killer isn't giving kat a good fight, he's flat out just gonna lose. his best wano feat is hurting kaido(With an atk that's durability negation) and beating Hawkins, killer doesn't otherwise have an atk that can dmg kaido, when he used beheading claws with zoros onigiri they both did 0 dmg to base kaidos skin. Durability negation shouldn't be the basis to say someone's AP is better because it's a hax not a gauge of power. Secondly, a misconception ppl get about kats AP is he has the AP to hurt G4 bounceman, how many characters outside of kaido and big mom can u say have better durability than bounceman luffy? Outside of those 2 and flame on king, kats attacks can hurt pretty much anyone in the verse(excluding warcury as well) So to say that kat can't compete with other ppl in a fight or knock them out due to how he faught luffy comes off as disengenuious cuz kaido and big mom should not be the baseline to measure AP in fights that don't directly involve them. On that same note luffy was being heavily carried by the plot and the circumstances of whole cake, despite it being stated luffy had taken FATAL dmg multiple times before he even used mole to pierce his gut kats attacks were being said to be lethal but luffys resilience being boosted by the circumstances to never go down undermine kats actual AP in the grand scheme of things. oda understood that if luffy ever went down or unconscious in the mirror world he would die because luffy is only able to go unconscious if 1 of 2 things are available, 1, a person is there to save him or 2, the person isn't trying to kill him. Luffy had neither so he can't get knocked out no matter how much punishment he takes otherwise the story ends, this is apparent when in wano apoo can hit luffy 2 times and knock him complelely unconscious because zoro is right next to him to save him. Overall kat doesn't suck his power is just undermined by the abnormality called kaido that changed everyone's perception of what makes a character strong in general for the worse cuz everyone makes kaido the baseline even tho he's the peak of the peak
Ok couple of notes, the fact that Killer could hurt Kaido means that his damage scales far and away above anything Katakuri can do. He may lose in speed but he definitely deals more damage and that feat alone is all he needs Katakuri got completely power cliffed. He could hurt pre Wano gear 4 Luffy and sure he can still take on a majority of the verse but he's not even remotely close the current level of most of the prevalent fighters. When I said he can't compete I meant within the context of the current combatants. Saying Luffy got carried by the plot is such a cop out answer for people that just didn't like the way the author wrote the story. He won and no amount of complaints is going to change it. As for Luffy being stated to have taken lethal damage, I read that entire fight and there was no mention of Luffy being near death till after they finished. Katakuri CAN'T compete with anyone on the rooftop besides killer and that's simply because he DOESN'T have anything that can help against most people on this list.
@@El_Eon_ 1. As I've already said durability negation isn't a feat to say u have higher AP because it's a hax that bypasses the conventional durability that characters like bounceman luffy couldnt do yet, I've already said that outside of that one atk killer couldn't hurt kaido cuz he used beheading claws which isn't dura neg and he couldn't even scratch base kaidos skin. 2. The most prevelant of current fighters are all either yonkos, admirals, and a few 1st commanders, and the gorosei(who aren't hard to dmg outside of warcury just hard to take down due to regen) so I don't see how that means kat is power cliffed, he was already weaker than the yonkos and admirals from the start and outside of zoro, who he can debatebly still put up a fight against there's no other 1st commanders you can definitively say just wash him(lack of feats) 3. It's not a cop out answer if it's consistent with the way Oda writes his fights, the entire mirror world fight was being driven by storytelling moreso than actual powerscaling. And if u check ch891 it's said by flampe that luffy has "taken fatal dmg several times over" now I'm no doctor but I'm pretty sure fatal dmg is damage that's supposed to kill you under normal circumstances, and this fight was anything but normal both from a writing and powerscaling perspective. It's not about luffy winning it's about kat being perceived to not have the AP to hurt or knock out others which is the main argument for why ppl say kat cant compete even though bounceman luffy is more durable than most of the ppl hes put up against. 4. Kat has everything he's needs to compete with every other 1st commander tier character, he's the only 1st commander with confirmed adv obs haki which is more useful than zoros adv haki, has a DF awakening with gives battlefield advantage, can hurt G4 luffy which means he can hurt practically anyone on this list, he has Mole, he can atk from virtually anywhere so flying isn't an advantage, He's just as fast if not faster than base luffy, mind u base luffy using future sight was able to dodge a thunder bagua something NOBODY else on the rooftop could do(there's context as to why G4 luffy got blitzed in kuri but not on the rooftop that I can also explain) He's basically luffy 2.0 His only weakness is a lack of durability from extremely powerful atks, but those rarely land anyway, he had the endurance to dodge 100s of blows from luffy for over 11 hours. if luffy beat kat in 13-15 hits that means luffy only landed 1-2punches every 60 minutes of throwing punches, that's insane Like I said using kaido as the benchmark for powerscaling has ruined the scaling of characters, one piece has a lot of nuances that get overshadowed by feats taken out of context and kaido is the main perpetrator
@@MicaW4VE here's the problem with your entire argument, This isn't the first time that one piece characters have gotten power cliffed, It happened with crocodile. It happened with Rob Lucci, It happened with doflamingo and it happened with Katakuri. The simple fact that katakuri lost to Luffy, in a high-def fight and Luffy got one shot by kaido means that everyone on the rooftop that could fight kaido is automatically above katakuri there is no argument against that. No matter what argument you try to make katakuri cannot hang with the people that fought kaido and big mom. That's the simple fact. If Luffy got one shot Katakuri's getting one shot. If Yonko Luffy GOT Blitzed BY Kaido while using Future sight There is absolutely no way katakuri isn't just going to straight up be useless. He got power cliffed stop coping and get over it. Also saying that the gorosei aren't that hard to damage with, especially when they've been performing better than an admiral is crazy. Finally saying that katakuri's Advanced observation Haki is better than Zoro's acoc is objectively wrong considering that Zoro was able to actually Scar kaido while Luffy couldn't even hurt him previously.
@@El_Eon_ 1. Not true at all, "fighting kaido" is a blanket term because not everyone faught kaido to the same degree, anyone can be on the rooftop and that constitutes as "fighting a yonko" doesn't make them more impressive than someone that hasn't because what actually matters is what said character did to kaido and the context for how it happened which u seem to have no problem ignoring. And there u go again using kaido as a baseline for strength against ppl that aren't kaido. , so what if kat gets one tapped by kaido? Killer isnt kaido, zoro isnt kaido, king isn't kaido, marco isn't kaido, getting defeated by kaido doesn't mean 1st commanders beat kat as easily as kaido does, ur just proving my point on kaido ruining the powerscaling of the series Cuz yall can't stop using him as a baseline for everything, it's like trying to find the base skill level of the average basketball player but you just end up comparing their skill to LeBron James when u put them up against someone that isn't LeBron 🤦🏿♂️ And once again luffy didn't get blitzed by the atk if he actually dodged the atk, grazed yes, stil dodged nonetheless kat is faster than base luffy, if base luffy using FS can dodge a thunder bagua then kat using FS who's on par with snakeman will have a far easier time, it's not cope it's context, context that u seem to want to dismiss even though all of odas fights and the interactions between characters are shrouded in context. Let's use your logic for a second, luffy got "blitzed" in G4 therefore kat also gets blitzed let's remove why G4 got blitzed and why base luffy didn't and just say base luffy is faster than Kat now, how is that any different from me saying lucci is faster than kizaru because lucci blizted sentomaru and sentomaru reacted to kizaru, removing the context for how sentomaru got blitzed and just using the feats at face value it's the same thing but you'd never say that lucci is as fast as kizaru even though I'm using the exact same logic your using to say kat is too slow to dodge a thunder bagua, let's start being fr. and we're talking about End of series lvl threats, crocodile is a warlord, Rob lucci is a CP9 agent, Doflamingo is another warlord it's natural for them to get power cliffed, these are yonko commanders yonkos are already the peak that oda has stated are the strongest in the series, the tippy top of the verse are the yonkos, admirals, and the WG, and then the yonko commanders. Kat is still relative to other yonko commanders he didn't get power cliffed, luffy is a yonko now, zoro isnt, marco, killer isn't, king isnt so it's illogical to say katakuri is power cliffed by ppl that are in his power bracket The gorosei aren't hard to dmg outside of warcury, brook is cutting off Saturn's legs like butter, Franky pierced straight through him, Bonney with a knife can stab clean into him, a base kick from sanji has venus spitting blood, the giants can cleave off ju peters head, outside of warcury none of the other gorosei are "tanking" attacks, they havnt out peformed any admirals because they havnt done anything offensive they just just get hit and regenerate, saturn is getting stalled by the weakest members of the strawhats, ju Peter is nowhere to be found, venus is getting held down by Kashi and oimo, and all warcury does is just stand around. Having adv obs is better than having adv conquerers in a fight. Future sight provides more ultiltiy in a fight overall, all adv conquerers does is make your attacks stronger but you don't need your attacks to be that strong to be a threat to 99% of the verse. outside of like 4 characters just base armament/ryou is enough to severely hurt anyone in the verse, having future sight makes anyone without it significantly easier to deal with, anyone that was relative to you in speed is now automatically slower than you. If u have relative armament to someone else u can still hurt each other, this is another problem yall focus too much on AP because once again kaido has brainwashed the community into thinking everyone is as durable as him and if u don't have the AP to hurt kaido u can't hurt anyone else which is the most absurd line of reasoning to argue.
Hello, can you do a White mask obito Vs katakuri??, i feel like white mask obito isnt talked about enough, as he as a lot of unique ability and seing him fighting another versatile Character would deffinetly be fun
that was before kuzanwas revealed as a titanic captain cause that cover is meant to show the strongest memers on the crew thats not the captain and we all know shiryu isn't stronger than kuzan
@krqstair my comment was mainly in reference to Burgess being on the tier list over Shiryu. You're right, though , as it stands Kuzan is the second strongest in that crew
@El_Eon_ I think the blackbeard Pirates system works similar to Whitebeard in that it is not based on strength. Shiryu was put with the other first commanders on the cover art. So, although he might not be 2nd in command, he is the one who would be fighting a king or Marco on that crew. (Ignoring Kuzan, of course). To further my point, both zoro and Bepo are not vice captains in their crews, but they are the 2nd strongest.
In chapter 569, Akainu spares whitebeard, and lets the vice admirals fight him. Mind you Akainu just landed a blow on his chest and walked away and let the grunts deal with him
Yeah but when motivated enough Whitebeard could beat Akainu with half a face, holes in his chest from light beams and magma in his stomach... Which he did
With the benefit of hindsight, gorosei stocks are pretty high (Chapter 1116), and by relation imu Sabo’s defeat might not be a good judgement for commander p.s. . I am not a sabo Stan by any means, maybe you could drop an updated list/talk about the topic after seeing actual feats from the gorosei
@@norussian112 I can definitely update the list after a couple of months once we see a bit more from these characters. I don't think sabo's stock is going to really go that much higher though unless we get some insane Feats from him because whether or not the gorosei show more impressive Feats doesn't really take away from the fact that he got one shot by them especially since it wasn't a fatal attack, and he only got away because Cobra decided to stay back.
Is it possible to rank King any higher when accounting for the fact that he wasn’t using his devil fruit powers at the end of his fight with Zoro? Because surely like other Zoans his Hybrid form would scale above his base self.
Like I mentioned in the stream, it's not exactly an end all be all to the discussion. You can definitely switch around some of the character's positions. The thing with King though is that when Zorro defeated his strongest attack, it was based off of the flames his body could generate and I don't think his double fruit ability would have improved the quality or power of his flames considering that zoan fruits for the most part really only improve physical stats
Bro I have doubt, Kurama can destroy the world so it is considered as planetary because it was stated not shown as a feat, so people say Madara, Hashirama, Naruto and some other people in that verse consider them to be planetary just only because they fought them. In that case WB has to be planetary and Sengoku said it WB can destroy the world it won't help Navy saying that, so it is true. He is not even close enough to his prime time and there were so many people who were equals or stronger than Prime WB. So One Piece top tiers are also Planetary isn't it. And considering their planet size, some of the islands in One piece are big as a continent in Naruto verse isn't it. And also please make a video about Naruto vs One Piece best anime every category. Why am I comparing it with Naruto? It is because Op and Naruto are best rivals, and also there are dozens of Naruto biased channels trying to Nerf one piece power scaling.
I agree that it's unfair that people will use statements from supplementary materials like the data books that are also filled with a ton of hyperbolic statements while denying statements from one piece like Whitebeard being capable of destroying the world and downplaying the series overall. I don't want to make a one-piece versus Naruto Which anime is better video because it's ultimately all just subjective not saying that power scaling as a whole isn't subjective and I don't want to get that kind of negative attention to my channel from people that enjoy the series. I think that power scaling as a whole can already make certain individuals rowdy.
@@El_Eon_ 😂😂sry about that request, I understand. But at least please talk about your opinion on the statements and ignoring other anime statements in any future videos.
@@El_Eon_ Important thing is, IDK is this your first time or not doing a live stream but, this live stream is great. I can't watch the stream but, next I will.
Great list but dressrosa Sabo alone stomps half on this list. Karasu and morley can box with admirals 1 on 1, and sabo is definitely stronger than each of those 2. His flames getting eaten by IMU, prolly the top of the verse isn't a downscale to sabo, but an upscale to IMU. After dressrosa, he's shown to train his DF, so im not even surprised if he has awakened df now. Blud got adv armament way back dressrosa🤣 Lastly, he basically blitz all the gorosei and IMU despite doing 0 damage due to their regen as shown later in egghead, hell even liffy couldn't damage them. And you're underestimating him attacking and surviving the 6 final villains of the series lol. Pretty good list tho.
@@MarkSalangsang-eh1mg the admirals couldn't go all out on Mariejois because the celestial dragons would've gotten even more upset and or hurt. It's mentioned in the same chapter He also doesn't have advanced armament Haki in dressrosa it's never even implied He didn't blitz the Gorosei either he jumped in and caught them off guard since they didn't expect anyone bypassed their security especially when Imu was present
@@El_Eon_ yeah, in the same chapter, akainu also said that "NO EXCUSES," marines have basic types of arm and obs haki and are well rounded overall in skills. Admirals cannot defeat Morley and karasu without using AOE skills meant that those are no pushovers and were indeed giving them a run for their money. U literally exampled Greenbull vs King and Queen, those 2 are ancient zoans with high Regen. Despite being not full HP they are mostly of Beast pirates crew with the top 2 commanders vs GB lol. And not being implied doesn't mean he doesn't have one, Sabi literally used haki and forced it throuh the arena destroying it inside and out. And the thing that I've noticed is that, you're giving Zoro the benefit of the doubt and highballs his feats while downplaying anyone except him lol. Ben Beckman for example was stated to be relative to shanks, and red hair crew was stated to be the most balanced crew, meaning the gap between the yonko and the commanders are not huge in gap unlike Kaido and King, BM and Kat, Luffy and Zoro etc.
@@MarkSalangsang-eh1mg In the same chapter Green bull literally thinks "it's impossible to fight here... Get out of here already" while looking at one of the celestial dragons that's screaming at him Fujitora was going to call a meteor strike and is even told it's a terrible idea. "There are two admirals here... If we were anywhere BUT the home of the gods that'd be more than enough firepower to turn any battlefield upside down". They couldn't go all out. King didn't have his flame on so green bull could easily pierce him and even in the anime you can see he's tired extremely early. Sabo has no implication whatsoever that he has ACoA. Saying "that doesn't mean he doesn't have it" is not only head canon but a logical fallacy and he destroyed the arena in the colosseum by looking for its weak spot while tapping it with his fist. I'm not giving Zoro the benefit of doubt he is literally the only person in the list with Advanced conquerors Haki which is as of now the strongest form of Haki and a requirement to even possibly reach Yonko tier without a devil fruit. He beat two of the stronger characters in the list so it's not hard to see him high. Benn Beckman is NOT stated to be Shanks equal that's just an interpretation people made up from a databook statement. Most balanced wouldn't just mean the crew is closer to the Yonko's power. It can mean they're all around relative to the other crewmates. There's a reason why the world government fears Shanks and not his crew. There's a reason why the world government fears Luffy and not his crew, it's the yonko that's the problem not the crew itself.
@@El_Eon_ you proved exactly my point, the admirals can't defeat sabo's underlings on a 1v1 without going all out 🤣Akainu will say it to you again: NO EXCUSES! You're saying that anyone can destroy the colosseum like how Sabo did it lol, yes he knew the weakest spot, but destroying it by just burrowing his fists with haki is literally what ryou is, not to mention his style is called ryousoken in case you didn't know. And again, it's not a fallacy, by that logic then, Luffy's fruit was never the Nika fruit until it was revealed by the gorosei🤣 And ACOC doesn't guarantee you the spot in the yonkos lol, users of it have the potential but not a guarantee, it is a technique and a power up. Lucci ain't no yonko but he's tanking ACOC attacks from Zoro since their first clash. Zoro literally said that, his attack only scarred kaido, and it didn't do much, and kaido said that, nah, be proud or some shit like that. Law breaking all of BM's internal organs, and Kidd breaking BM's bone without awakening were more impressive. Sabo, Beck, Law, Kidd over Zoro all day.
@@MarkSalangsang-eh1mg You're assuming that the Admirals have to go all out, They don't have to go all out to beat them they just can't fight comfortably while also getting yelled at by celestial dragons and they have to protect Mariejois You're taking the context of the situation and assuming that because they held back they have to go all out which is a logical fallacy. The of sabo's technique has nothing to do with him using Ryou and since there again is no implication that he used Advanced Armament haki You can't just say he did. Yes anyone could have destroyed the coliseum if they just hit it hard enough with a punch. Literally every single yonko but Blackbeard and Buggy has had Advanced conquerors Haki. Buggy is a special case because his whole reason for being a yonko is a joke by Oda. And a blackbeard has the strongest Logia and the strongest paramecia devil fruits. Law and kidd are stronger than Zoro bringing them up has nothing to do with this conversation.
Sonic Scythe kinda hurting Kaido doesn't mean that it's above attacks like Dressrosa King Kong gun, it's not even close. It just has dura neg which is specifically good against Kaido. Even Kinemon is able to hurt Kaido just because he has Ryo but that doesn't mean that a Kinemon slice > any gear 4 attack pre ryo. The same applies to Katakuri vs Luffy, Kat's physical attacks aren't trash just because Luffy can tank him since he's a rubber man. If he used his mole spear more he would have 3 shot Luffy. Also, you're really underestimating Katakuri's future sight, Killer wouldn't even be able to get 1 hit in on Kat, the man was dodging black mamba like it was nothing.
Here's the problem though, I understand that killer may not be as cool of a character or as impressive looking of a character as katakuri, however Luffy is not only comparable to katakuri if not slightly Superior by the time he wins since he did win that fight and had to make up the difference not only in strength and speed but reached Katakuri's level within a couple of hours and mastered ACoO. Luffy got blitzed and one shot by kaido, The objective fact is that Luffy landed less hits on katakuri than katakuri landed on Luffy. Katakuri couldn't even one shot Luffy's base or take hits from Bounceman without heavy enough damage and yet you expect me to believe that he could stand up and fight alongside the guys who fought on the rooftop. No, the answer is simply no. If base wano Luffy is stronger, faster and more durable than that Gear 4 version then I don't see absolutely why katakuri can even stand alongside them. Not to mention at this point, Luffy got tagged by kaido in base again with thunder bagua even though he was using future sight. Katakuri would get blitzed in one shot instantly up there. He got objectively power cliffed and anyone who stands on that rooftop is not only stronger or faster or more durable than gear 4 Luffy from whole cake Island. They have to be to stand on the rooftop. Killer took legitimate hits from big mom and kaido and was still able to hurt big mom and kaido and actually helped out. Even if it was minimal. He still did something that alone is more impressive objectively than anything else katakuri has ever done because he has fought stronger opponents. No one he's ever fought is as remotely Fast, powerful or impressive as a yonko. Killer might not be on the same level as the other guys. He may be the weakest person there, but he has more impressive feats and I have no reason to believe that Katakuri is better than killer.
@@El_Eon_ So iirc all that Killer did on the rooftop was this: A combo attack with Zoro to Kaido's neck that did nothing. Then the scythe sonic which has dura neg and did some minimal damage fair enough, but none of his other attacks do shit to him. Then he got dropped by a stray Zeus lighting and did get back up but people were tanking 200 million volts lightning in skypiea, it isn't that impressive. Then he got Napoleon out of Big Mom's hand when she was distracted. That's all, he never tanked a thunder bagua or any real yonko attack. Kaido wasn't even taking it seriously when Killer was still around, he was letting them try their best moves on him and it was a 5v2, if he wanted he could've speed blitzed Killer and 1 shot him but he wasn't even on his radar cuz he was too weak. Sure, Katakuri probably wouldn't be able to hurt Big Mom and Kaido because he has no dura neg like Killer BUT he would do way better vs other top tiers that don't have broken durability than Killer. Also, I dont agree that Base Ryo Luffy pre ACoC>WCI gear 4 Luffy. A King Kong Gun which destroyed an island is way stronger than a ryo punch that destroyed a tree, even tho that ryo punch is able to damage Kaido cuz again it has dura neg. If WCI Luffy used King Kong gun on any other top tier than Kaido/Big Mom they would get fucked up.(if they dont guard ofc) In regards to him tanking a thunder bagua in base after he learned ryo, he actually semi-dodged it with future sight, it wasn't a clean hit like it was the first time when he got 1 shotted in gear 4.
I like how you recognise king’s strengh. I personaly think that it isn’t that absurd to say that king can give a close fight to some admirals. His speed with flames off surpasses every admiral except kizaru, and this is without his zoan transformations that boost his speed even more. With flames on he would be able to at least keep up with them since he was dodging koh onigiri. His imperial dragon has been compared to magma so we can assume he has attack potency somewhat close to akainu’s. And obviously his durability surpasses everyone (except warcury idk)
Be real, look at Whitebeard crew and at the Marines after the war. All admirals, even Akainu who get the most smoke were 70% fresh and ready to continue. One Yonko crew ≈ Marines and ONLY Marines, then there is also CP 0-9, 5 elders, God knights, Seraphims and Imu on top of Marines military force which again, by itself already ≈ Emperor military force. Everything else is fax tho especially the Kid and Law respect when most tends to slender this two for some reason, well besides that you kinda downplayed Bepo, ngl Sulong Bepo is the strongest mink, I would put him... at least above Jack, when it comes to commanders ranking.
And also not overrating featless characters. We haven't seen anything yet. Also, acknowledgment of the power creeps people like Doffy, Katakuri, Fujitora, etc are a victim of. They have been long outclassed
I wouldn't exactly put King on admiral level but I think in a scenario where they would both be at full health he could at least be annoying enough to cause some trouble.
@@El_Eon_With power creeps and all that, I'd definitely put him on an Admirals level he's definitely surpassed anything Fujitora has shown. Fuji wasn't even able to break Doffys bird cage. And we don't know anything about GB power, so we can't make judgments on that, though we can put him at least to Fujitoras level. I don't think King can beat Kizaru, but he'd definitely make it a high diff battle, though. I think he falls to the upper tiers like Aokiji and Akainu, but he's definitely like middle of the pack of Admiral Level.
@@firelord1688 I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, there aren't really any examples of First commanders being able to combat admirals on an equal level and more often than not, they have been shown to be inferior. I think what ultimately separates a first commander from a yonko is the capability to be able to combat not only one admiral but three. The thing is that King did lose to GB and I understand the fujitora point, but there are examples of devil fruit abilities surpassing Haki and Doflamingo's birdcage may just be one of those examples
@@El_Eon_ Yeah, I'm aware of some DF abilities being immune to Haki, but I don't think the bird cage was one of them it really seemed like a basic attack that was just extremely powerful and coulddefinitelybe overpowered its more seems Fuji just wasn't strong enough. And when it comes to scaling I would tend to avoid titles or rankings as they're not really consistent as by that logic Franky should be able to one tap Old Garp as he's manhandled a Vice Admiral. There are always exceptions to these things. You shouldn't take a lack of feats from others and apply it to those who have shown feats that surpass others in a similar field. The only times I apply rankings into consideration are the bare minimum requirements to reach that rank or if it had been heavily stated or implied that all within those ranks were of equivalent power to each other. King has shown the abilities that put him way ahead of his YC1 cohorts, putting him on a similar playing field to someone like Kiazru.
This is how i see it: Dressrosa king kong gun does 100 damage but Kaido's defense is like 200 so he takes no dmg from it. Sonic scythe does like 10 dmg but it ignores defenses so it actually hits for 10. But this only works vs Kaido or Big Mom, no other top tier has defense even close to those 2. If Dressrosa Luffy hit a clean King Kong gun on Mihawk it would hurt WAYY more than a sonic scythe.
True
Absolutely love your videos and content. You always keep it fair, with rarely any bias and always have lots of information/evidence for most of your statements. Keep up the great work
Finally someone who understands how the power balance works in One Piece... And I'm not saying that because I have the same take as you (;
I'm not saying Jack beats Akainu, just that if every admiral is as strong as an emperor, then sick, old, almost hakiless Whitebeard without his second and fourth commander, went to fight the equivalent of 3 Kaidos, backed up by a fleet admiral and the Shishibukai...
11:20
Normally I would agree that a characters durability wouldn’t inherently translate 1 to 1 with their AP/striking power, as they simply may not be able to hit are hard as what they can take.
In the case of One Piece though, especially with Haki feats, Rayleigh stated in ch 597 that a stronger defense would naturally result in stronger attack power. So any durability feats for Haki should translate to a character’s AP as well.
That aside I appreciate your analysis of the Katakuri fight; way to many people overstate Kat’s advantages over Luffy, a lot of it definitely came down to his future sight and his devil fruit abilities geared for evasion.
Bro keep cooking , guys like you who don’t follow the mass agendas are the RUclipsrs that we need , the balance of the world is 1 yonko crew = the full marine
And it don’t come from me but literally by oda himself.
love your passion and content and thought process, definitely gonna keep watching, even though I disagree with your take on sabo but I just think we haven't seen enough, but can't disagree with your logic
Hey man I loved this stream and arguing with people. (it was in good fun lol) But I did miss a good portion of it because it was storming where I live.
I don't agree with the katakuri takes, for starters killer isn't giving kat a good fight, he's flat out just gonna lose.
his best wano feat is hurting kaido(With an atk that's durability negation) and beating Hawkins, killer doesn't otherwise have an atk that can dmg kaido, when he used beheading claws with zoros onigiri they both did 0 dmg to base kaidos skin.
Durability negation shouldn't be the basis to say someone's AP is better because it's a hax not a gauge of power.
Secondly, a misconception ppl get about kats AP is he has the AP to hurt G4 bounceman, how many characters outside of kaido and big mom can u say have better durability than bounceman luffy? Outside of those 2 and flame on king, kats attacks can hurt pretty much anyone in the verse(excluding warcury as well)
So to say that kat can't compete with other ppl in a fight or knock them out due to how he faught luffy comes off as disengenuious cuz kaido and big mom should not be the baseline to measure AP in fights that don't directly involve them.
On that same note luffy was being heavily carried by the plot and the circumstances of whole cake, despite it being stated luffy had taken FATAL dmg multiple times before he even used mole to pierce his gut kats attacks were being said to be lethal but luffys resilience being boosted by the circumstances to never go down undermine kats actual AP in the grand scheme of things.
oda understood that if luffy ever went down or unconscious in the mirror world he would die because luffy is only able to go unconscious if 1 of 2 things are available, 1, a person is there to save him or 2, the person isn't trying to kill him. Luffy had neither so he can't get knocked out no matter how much punishment he takes otherwise the story ends, this is apparent when in wano apoo can hit luffy 2 times and knock him complelely unconscious because zoro is right next to him to save him.
Overall kat doesn't suck his power is just undermined by the abnormality called kaido that changed everyone's perception of what makes a character strong in general for the worse cuz everyone makes kaido the baseline even tho he's the peak of the peak
Ok couple of notes, the fact that Killer could hurt Kaido means that his damage scales far and away above anything Katakuri can do. He may lose in speed but he definitely deals more damage and that feat alone is all he needs
Katakuri got completely power cliffed. He could hurt pre Wano gear 4 Luffy and sure he can still take on a majority of the verse but he's not even remotely close the current level of most of the prevalent fighters.
When I said he can't compete I meant within the context of the current combatants.
Saying Luffy got carried by the plot is such a cop out answer for people that just didn't like the way the author wrote the story. He won and no amount of complaints is going to change it. As for Luffy being stated to have taken lethal damage, I read that entire fight and there was no mention of Luffy being near death till after they finished.
Katakuri CAN'T compete with anyone on the rooftop besides killer and that's simply because he DOESN'T have anything that can help against most people on this list.
@@El_Eon_ 1. As I've already said durability negation isn't a feat to say u have higher AP because it's a hax that bypasses the conventional durability that characters like bounceman luffy couldnt do yet, I've already said that outside of that one atk killer couldn't hurt kaido cuz he used beheading claws which isn't dura neg and he couldn't even scratch base kaidos skin.
2. The most prevelant of current fighters are all either yonkos, admirals, and a few 1st commanders, and the gorosei(who aren't hard to dmg outside of warcury just hard to take down due to regen) so I don't see how that means kat is power cliffed, he was already weaker than the yonkos and admirals from the start and outside of zoro, who he can debatebly still put up a fight against there's no other 1st commanders you can definitively say just wash him(lack of feats)
3. It's not a cop out answer if it's consistent with the way Oda writes his fights, the entire mirror world fight was being driven by storytelling moreso than actual powerscaling. And if u check ch891 it's said by flampe that luffy has "taken fatal dmg several times over" now I'm no doctor but I'm pretty sure fatal dmg is damage that's supposed to kill you under normal circumstances, and this fight was anything but normal both from a writing and powerscaling perspective. It's not about luffy winning it's about kat being perceived to not have the AP to hurt or knock out others which is the main argument for why ppl say kat cant compete even though bounceman luffy is more durable than most of the ppl hes put up against.
4. Kat has everything he's needs to compete with every other 1st commander tier character, he's the only 1st commander with confirmed adv obs haki which is more useful than zoros adv haki, has a DF awakening with gives battlefield advantage, can hurt G4 luffy which means he can hurt practically anyone on this list, he has Mole, he can atk from virtually anywhere so flying isn't an advantage, He's just as fast if not faster than base luffy, mind u base luffy using future sight was able to dodge a thunder bagua something NOBODY else on the rooftop could do(there's context as to why G4 luffy got blitzed in kuri but not on the rooftop that I can also explain) He's basically luffy 2.0
His only weakness is a lack of durability from extremely powerful atks, but those rarely land anyway, he had the endurance to dodge 100s of blows from luffy for over 11 hours. if luffy beat kat in 13-15 hits that means luffy only landed 1-2punches every 60 minutes of throwing punches, that's insane
Like I said using kaido as the benchmark for powerscaling has ruined the scaling of characters, one piece has a lot of nuances that get overshadowed by feats taken out of context and kaido is the main perpetrator
@@MicaW4VE here's the problem with your entire argument, This isn't the first time that one piece characters have gotten power cliffed, It happened with crocodile. It happened with Rob Lucci, It happened with doflamingo and it happened with Katakuri. The simple fact that katakuri lost to Luffy, in a high-def fight and Luffy got one shot by kaido means that everyone on the rooftop that could fight kaido is automatically above katakuri there is no argument against that. No matter what argument you try to make katakuri cannot hang with the people that fought kaido and big mom. That's the simple fact. If Luffy got one shot Katakuri's getting one shot. If Yonko Luffy GOT Blitzed BY Kaido while using Future sight There is absolutely no way katakuri isn't just going to straight up be useless. He got power cliffed stop coping and get over it.
Also saying that the gorosei aren't that hard to damage with, especially when they've been performing better than an admiral is crazy.
Finally saying that katakuri's Advanced observation Haki is better than Zoro's acoc is objectively wrong considering that Zoro was able to actually Scar kaido while Luffy couldn't even hurt him previously.
That mad dumb am sorry
@@El_Eon_ 1. Not true at all, "fighting kaido" is a blanket term because not everyone faught kaido to the same degree, anyone can be on the rooftop and that constitutes as "fighting a yonko" doesn't make them more impressive than someone that hasn't because what actually matters is what said character did to kaido and the context for how it happened which u seem to have no problem ignoring. And there u go again using kaido as a baseline for strength against ppl that aren't kaido. , so what if kat gets one tapped by kaido? Killer isnt kaido, zoro isnt kaido, king isn't kaido, marco isn't kaido, getting defeated by kaido doesn't mean 1st commanders beat kat as easily as kaido does, ur just proving my point on kaido ruining the powerscaling of the series Cuz yall can't stop using him as a baseline for everything, it's like trying to find the base skill level of the average basketball player but you just end up comparing their skill to LeBron James when u put them up against someone that isn't LeBron 🤦🏿♂️
And once again luffy didn't get blitzed by the atk if he actually dodged the atk, grazed yes, stil dodged nonetheless kat is faster than base luffy, if base luffy using FS can dodge a thunder bagua then kat using FS who's on par with snakeman will have a far easier time, it's not cope it's context, context that u seem to want to dismiss even though all of odas fights and the interactions between characters are shrouded in context. Let's use your logic for a second, luffy got "blitzed" in G4 therefore kat also gets blitzed let's remove why G4 got blitzed and why base luffy didn't and just say base luffy is faster than Kat now, how is that any different from me saying lucci is faster than kizaru because lucci blizted sentomaru and sentomaru reacted to kizaru, removing the context for how sentomaru got blitzed and just using the feats at face value it's the same thing but you'd never say that lucci is as fast as kizaru even though I'm using the exact same logic your using to say kat is too slow to dodge a thunder bagua, let's start being fr.
and we're talking about End of series lvl threats, crocodile is a warlord, Rob lucci is a CP9 agent, Doflamingo is another warlord it's natural for them to get power cliffed, these are yonko commanders yonkos are already the peak that oda has stated are the strongest in the series, the tippy top of the verse are the yonkos, admirals, and the WG, and then the yonko commanders. Kat is still relative to other yonko commanders he didn't get power cliffed, luffy is a yonko now, zoro isnt, marco, killer isn't, king isnt so it's illogical to say katakuri is power cliffed by ppl that are in his power bracket
The gorosei aren't hard to dmg outside of warcury, brook is cutting off Saturn's legs like butter, Franky pierced straight through him, Bonney with a knife can stab clean into him, a base kick from sanji has venus spitting blood, the giants can cleave off ju peters head, outside of warcury none of the other gorosei are "tanking" attacks, they havnt out peformed any admirals because they havnt done anything offensive they just just get hit and regenerate, saturn is getting stalled by the weakest members of the strawhats, ju Peter is nowhere to be found, venus is getting held down by Kashi and oimo, and all warcury does is just stand around.
Having adv obs is better than having adv conquerers in a fight. Future sight provides more ultiltiy in a fight overall, all adv conquerers does is make your attacks stronger but you don't need your attacks to be that strong to be a threat to 99% of the verse. outside of like 4 characters just base armament/ryou is enough to severely hurt anyone in the verse, having future sight makes anyone without it significantly easier to deal with, anyone that was relative to you in speed is now automatically slower than you. If u have relative armament to someone else u can still hurt each other, this is another problem yall focus too much on AP because once again kaido has brainwashed the community into thinking everyone is as durable as him and if u don't have the AP to hurt kaido u can't hurt anyone else which is the most absurd line of reasoning to argue.
I have a few disagreements, but overall it's a pretty good list.
That's fair. Like I said you can definitely change a lot of these around. It's not the end-all be-all to the conversation.
Hello, can you do a White mask obito Vs katakuri??, i feel like white mask obito isnt talked about enough, as he as a lot of unique ability and seing him fighting another versatile Character would deffinetly be fun
I'll add it to the list
@@El_Eon_ ight thanks
Wasn't shiryu confirmed to be blackbeard's number two in that cover art?
that was before kuzanwas revealed as a titanic captain cause that cover is meant to show the strongest memers on the crew thats not the captain and we all know shiryu isn't stronger than kuzan
@krqstair my comment was mainly in reference to Burgess being on the tier list over Shiryu. You're right, though , as it stands Kuzan is the second strongest in that crew
@@ibelieve8145 when I was looking up the blackbeard pirates I saw that he was listed as the 1st Titanic captain and Shiryu was the 2nd Captain
@El_Eon_ I think the blackbeard Pirates system works similar to Whitebeard in that it is not based on strength. Shiryu was put with the other first commanders on the cover art. So, although he might not be 2nd in command, he is the one who would be fighting a king or Marco on that crew. (Ignoring Kuzan, of course). To further my point, both zoro and Bepo are not vice captains in their crews, but they are the 2nd strongest.
In chapter 569, Akainu spares whitebeard, and lets the vice admirals fight him.
Mind you Akainu just landed a blow on his chest and walked away and let the grunts deal with him
Yeah but when motivated enough Whitebeard could beat Akainu with half a face, holes in his chest from light beams and magma in his stomach... Which he did
@@El_Eon_ and then Akainu get up and proceed to catch smoke with all of his remaining commanders and it was clear as day who was dominating.
@@vampiranya9939 he didn't "get up" he stopped himself from falling and wasn't able to get out until after wb died.
PLS DO LUFFY VS NARUTO EVERYONES DYING TO HEAR THAT! END THIS DEBATE!
With the benefit of hindsight, gorosei stocks are pretty high (Chapter 1116), and by relation imu Sabo’s defeat might not be a good judgement for commander p.s. . I am not a sabo Stan by any means, maybe you could drop an updated list/talk about the topic after seeing actual feats from the gorosei
In relation to egghead
@@norussian112 I can definitely update the list after a couple of months once we see a bit more from these characters.
I don't think sabo's stock is going to really go that much higher though unless we get some insane Feats from him because whether or not the gorosei show more impressive Feats doesn't really take away from the fact that he got one shot by them especially since it wasn't a fatal attack, and he only got away because Cobra decided to stay back.
Is it possible to rank King any higher when accounting for the fact that he wasn’t using his devil fruit powers at the end of his fight with Zoro? Because surely like other Zoans his Hybrid form would scale above his base self.
Like I mentioned in the stream, it's not exactly an end all be all to the discussion. You can definitely switch around some of the character's positions. The thing with King though is that when Zorro defeated his strongest attack, it was based off of the flames his body could generate and I don't think his double fruit ability would have improved the quality or power of his flames considering that zoan fruits for the most part really only improve physical stats
His strongest attacks were the fire dragons, turning hybrid wouldnt matter
Bro I have doubt, Kurama can destroy the world so it is considered as planetary because it was stated not shown as a feat, so people say Madara, Hashirama, Naruto and some other people in that verse consider them to be planetary just only because they fought them.
In that case WB has to be planetary and Sengoku said it WB can destroy the world it won't help Navy saying that, so it is true.
He is not even close enough to his prime time and there were so many people who were equals or stronger than Prime WB. So One Piece top tiers are also Planetary isn't it.
And considering their planet size, some of the islands in One piece are big as a continent in Naruto verse isn't it.
And also please make a video about Naruto vs One Piece best anime every category.
Why am I comparing it with Naruto? It is because Op and Naruto are best rivals, and also there are dozens of Naruto biased channels trying to Nerf one piece power scaling.
I agree that it's unfair that people will use statements from supplementary materials like the data books that are also filled with a ton of hyperbolic statements while denying statements from one piece like Whitebeard being capable of destroying the world and downplaying the series overall.
I don't want to make a one-piece versus Naruto Which anime is better video because it's ultimately all just subjective not saying that power scaling as a whole isn't subjective and I don't want to get that kind of negative attention to my channel from people that enjoy the series. I think that power scaling as a whole can already make certain individuals rowdy.
@@El_Eon_ 😂😂sry about that request, I understand. But at least please talk about your opinion on the statements and ignoring other anime statements in any future videos.
@@El_Eon_ Important thing is, IDK is this your first time or not doing a live stream but, this live stream is great.
I can't watch the stream but, next I will.
Great list but dressrosa Sabo alone stomps half on this list.
Karasu and morley can box with admirals 1 on 1, and sabo is definitely stronger than each of those 2.
His flames getting eaten by IMU, prolly the top of the verse isn't a downscale to sabo, but an upscale to IMU.
After dressrosa, he's shown to train his DF, so im not even surprised if he has awakened df now. Blud got adv armament way back dressrosa🤣
Lastly, he basically blitz all the gorosei and IMU despite doing 0 damage due to their regen as shown later in egghead, hell even liffy couldn't damage them.
And you're underestimating him attacking and surviving the 6 final villains of the series lol.
Pretty good list tho.
@@MarkSalangsang-eh1mg the admirals couldn't go all out on Mariejois because the celestial dragons would've gotten even more upset and or hurt. It's mentioned in the same chapter
He also doesn't have advanced armament Haki in dressrosa it's never even implied
He didn't blitz the Gorosei either he jumped in and caught them off guard since they didn't expect anyone bypassed their security especially when Imu was present
@@El_Eon_ yeah, in the same chapter, akainu also said that "NO EXCUSES," marines have basic types of arm and obs haki and are well rounded overall in skills.
Admirals cannot defeat Morley and karasu without using AOE skills meant that those are no pushovers and were indeed giving them a run for their money.
U literally exampled Greenbull vs King and Queen, those 2 are ancient zoans with high Regen. Despite being not full HP they are mostly of Beast pirates crew with the top 2 commanders vs GB lol.
And not being implied doesn't mean he doesn't have one, Sabi literally used haki and forced it throuh the arena destroying it inside and out.
And the thing that I've noticed is that, you're giving Zoro the benefit of the doubt and highballs his feats while downplaying anyone except him lol.
Ben Beckman for example was stated to be relative to shanks, and red hair crew was stated to be the most balanced crew, meaning the gap between the yonko and the commanders are not huge in gap unlike Kaido and King, BM and Kat, Luffy and Zoro etc.
@@MarkSalangsang-eh1mg
In the same chapter Green bull literally thinks "it's impossible to fight here... Get out of here already" while looking at one of the celestial dragons that's screaming at him
Fujitora was going to call a meteor strike and is even told it's a terrible idea.
"There are two admirals here... If we were anywhere BUT the home of the gods that'd be more than enough firepower to turn any battlefield upside down".
They couldn't go all out.
King didn't have his flame on so green bull could easily pierce him and even in the anime you can see he's tired extremely early.
Sabo has no implication whatsoever that he has ACoA. Saying "that doesn't mean he doesn't have it" is not only head canon but a logical fallacy and he destroyed the arena in the colosseum by looking for its weak spot while tapping it with his fist.
I'm not giving Zoro the benefit of doubt he is literally the only person in the list with Advanced conquerors Haki which is as of now the strongest form of Haki and a requirement to even possibly reach Yonko tier without a devil fruit. He beat two of the stronger characters in the list so it's not hard to see him high.
Benn Beckman is NOT stated to be Shanks equal that's just an interpretation people made up from a databook statement. Most balanced wouldn't just mean the crew is closer to the Yonko's power. It can mean they're all around relative to the other crewmates.
There's a reason why the world government fears Shanks and not his crew. There's a reason why the world government fears Luffy and not his crew, it's the yonko that's the problem not the crew itself.
@@El_Eon_ you proved exactly my point, the admirals can't defeat sabo's underlings on a 1v1 without going all out 🤣Akainu will say it to you again: NO EXCUSES!
You're saying that anyone can destroy the colosseum like how Sabo did it lol, yes he knew the weakest spot, but destroying it by just burrowing his fists with haki is literally what ryou is, not to mention his style is called ryousoken in case you didn't know.
And again, it's not a fallacy, by that logic then, Luffy's fruit was never the Nika fruit until it was revealed by the gorosei🤣
And ACOC doesn't guarantee you the spot in the yonkos lol, users of it have the potential but not a guarantee, it is a technique and a power up. Lucci ain't no yonko but he's tanking ACOC attacks from Zoro since their first clash.
Zoro literally said that, his attack only scarred kaido, and it didn't do much, and kaido said that, nah, be proud or some shit like that. Law breaking all of BM's internal organs, and Kidd breaking BM's bone without awakening were more impressive.
Sabo, Beck, Law, Kidd over Zoro all day.
@@MarkSalangsang-eh1mg You're assuming that the Admirals have to go all out, They don't have to go all out to beat them they just can't fight comfortably while also getting yelled at by celestial dragons and they have to protect Mariejois You're taking the context of the situation and assuming that because they held back they have to go all out which is a logical fallacy.
The of sabo's technique has nothing to do with him using Ryou and since there again is no implication that he used Advanced Armament haki You can't just say he did. Yes anyone could have destroyed the coliseum if they just hit it hard enough with a punch.
Literally every single yonko but Blackbeard and Buggy has had Advanced conquerors Haki. Buggy is a special case because his whole reason for being a yonko is a joke by Oda. And a blackbeard has the strongest Logia and the strongest paramecia devil fruits.
Law and kidd are stronger than Zoro bringing them up has nothing to do with this conversation.
Sabo under Luchi💀
you have any other social media?
As of now no. I do have discord but I want to keep it private until I make a server for us
Zoro is yonko level period.
no if you can debate luffy being yonko level i don't see how zoro is
🐶💔
Please do Boros vs One piece. I wanna see your take on it
Fun livestream, i was iChugMilk btw 😭
Cool, it was a pleasure to talk to you and the others
stream was dope
Sonic Scythe kinda hurting Kaido doesn't mean that it's above attacks like Dressrosa King Kong gun, it's not even close. It just has dura neg which is specifically good against Kaido. Even Kinemon is able to hurt Kaido just because he has Ryo but that doesn't mean that a Kinemon slice > any gear 4 attack pre ryo.
The same applies to Katakuri vs Luffy, Kat's physical attacks aren't trash just because Luffy can tank him since he's a rubber man. If he used his mole spear more he would have 3 shot Luffy.
Also, you're really underestimating Katakuri's future sight, Killer wouldn't even be able to get 1 hit in on Kat, the man was dodging black mamba like it was nothing.
Here's the problem though, I understand that killer may not be as cool of a character or as impressive looking of a character as katakuri, however Luffy is not only comparable to katakuri if not slightly Superior by the time he wins since he did win that fight and had to make up the difference not only in strength and speed but reached Katakuri's level within a couple of hours and mastered ACoO.
Luffy got blitzed and one shot by kaido, The objective fact is that Luffy landed less hits on katakuri than katakuri landed on Luffy. Katakuri couldn't even one shot Luffy's base or take hits from Bounceman without heavy enough damage and yet you expect me to believe that he could stand up and fight alongside the guys who fought on the rooftop. No, the answer is simply no. If base wano Luffy is stronger, faster and more durable than that Gear 4 version then I don't see absolutely why katakuri can even stand alongside them. Not to mention at this point, Luffy got tagged by kaido in base again with thunder bagua even though he was using future sight. Katakuri would get blitzed in one shot instantly up there. He got objectively power cliffed and anyone who stands on that rooftop is not only stronger or faster or more durable than gear 4 Luffy from whole cake Island. They have to be to stand on the rooftop. Killer took legitimate hits from big mom and kaido and was still able to hurt big mom and kaido and actually helped out. Even if it was minimal. He still did something that alone is more impressive objectively than anything else katakuri has ever done because he has fought stronger opponents. No one he's ever fought is as remotely Fast, powerful or impressive as a yonko. Killer might not be on the same level as the other guys. He may be the weakest person there, but he has more impressive feats and I have no reason to believe that Katakuri is better than killer.
@@El_Eon_ So iirc all that Killer did on the rooftop was this: A combo attack with Zoro to Kaido's neck that did nothing. Then the scythe sonic which has dura neg and did some minimal damage fair enough, but none of his other attacks do shit to him. Then he got dropped by a stray Zeus lighting and did get back up but people were tanking 200 million volts lightning in skypiea, it isn't that impressive. Then he got Napoleon out of Big Mom's hand when she was distracted. That's all, he never tanked a thunder bagua or any real yonko attack. Kaido wasn't even taking it seriously when Killer was still around, he was letting them try their best moves on him and it was a 5v2, if he wanted he could've speed blitzed Killer and 1 shot him but he wasn't even on his radar cuz he was too weak.
Sure, Katakuri probably wouldn't be able to hurt Big Mom and Kaido because he has no dura neg like Killer BUT he would do way better vs other top tiers that don't have broken durability than Killer.
Also, I dont agree that Base Ryo Luffy pre ACoC>WCI gear 4 Luffy. A King Kong Gun which destroyed an island is way stronger than a ryo punch that destroyed a tree, even tho that ryo punch is able to damage Kaido cuz again it has dura neg. If WCI Luffy used King Kong gun on any other top tier than Kaido/Big Mom they would get fucked up.(if they dont guard ofc)
In regards to him tanking a thunder bagua in base after he learned ryo, he actually semi-dodged it with future sight, it wasn't a clean hit like it was the first time when he got 1 shotted in gear 4.
@@geogeo3733 yeah a lot of that is wrong but ok. Not gonna try and change your mind
I like how you recognise king’s strengh. I personaly think that it isn’t that absurd to say that king can give a close fight to some admirals.
His speed with flames off surpasses every admiral except kizaru, and this is without his zoan transformations that boost his speed even more. With flames on he would be able to at least keep up with them since he was dodging koh onigiri.
His imperial dragon has been compared to magma so we can assume he has attack potency somewhat close to akainu’s.
And obviously his durability surpasses everyone (except warcury idk)
Be real, look at Whitebeard crew and at the Marines after the war. All admirals, even Akainu who get the most smoke were 70% fresh and ready to continue. One Yonko crew ≈ Marines and ONLY Marines, then there is also CP 0-9, 5 elders, God knights, Seraphims and Imu on top of Marines military force which again, by itself already ≈ Emperor military force. Everything else is fax tho especially the Kid and Law respect when most tends to slender this two for some reason, well besides that you kinda downplayed Bepo, ngl Sulong Bepo is the strongest mink, I would put him... at least above Jack, when it comes to commanders ranking.
W video.
Do naruto vs luffy
Decent enough list. Someone finally gave King credit, putting him on the Admirals level.
And also not overrating featless characters. We haven't seen anything yet.
Also, acknowledgment of the power creeps people like Doffy, Katakuri, Fujitora, etc are a victim of. They have been long outclassed
I wouldn't exactly put King on admiral level but I think in a scenario where they would both be at full health he could at least be annoying enough to cause some trouble.
@@El_Eon_With power creeps and all that, I'd definitely put him on an Admirals level he's definitely surpassed anything Fujitora has shown. Fuji wasn't even able to break Doffys bird cage. And we don't know anything about GB power, so we can't make judgments on that, though we can put him at least to Fujitoras level.
I don't think King can beat Kizaru, but he'd definitely make it a high diff battle, though. I think he falls to the upper tiers like Aokiji and Akainu, but he's definitely like middle of the pack of Admiral Level.
@@firelord1688 I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, there aren't really any examples of First commanders being able to combat admirals on an equal level and more often than not, they have been shown to be inferior. I think what ultimately separates a first commander from a yonko is the capability to be able to combat not only one admiral but three.
The thing is that King did lose to GB and I understand the fujitora point, but there are examples of devil fruit abilities surpassing Haki and Doflamingo's birdcage may just be one of those examples
@@El_Eon_ Yeah, I'm aware of some DF abilities being immune to Haki, but I don't think the bird cage was one of them it really seemed like a basic attack that was just extremely powerful and coulddefinitelybe overpowered its more seems Fuji just wasn't strong enough.
And when it comes to scaling I would tend to avoid titles or rankings as they're not really consistent as by that logic Franky should be able to one tap Old Garp as he's manhandled a Vice Admiral. There are always exceptions to these things. You shouldn't take a lack of feats from others and apply it to those who have shown feats that surpass others in a similar field. The only times I apply rankings into consideration are the bare minimum requirements to reach that rank or if it had been heavily stated or implied that all within those ranks were of equivalent power to each other.
King has shown the abilities that put him way ahead of his YC1 cohorts, putting him on a similar playing field to someone like Kiazru.
W Live stream bro 🤙🏻