This video has probably taken the most raw hours to create of any on my channel so far, from research to writing, recording to gathering footage, and a gruelling editing process, it has been a mammoth undertaking. But I think it turned out to be one of my best videos. I hope you enjoy! *Various Info & Links* More GTA 5 Videos: broughy.com/gta5 Ways To Support Me: broughy.com/support Check the video description for series playlist, plus more relevant info & links! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Watch Me Website: broughy.com Twitch: twitch.tv/broughy1322 Main Channel: ruclips.net/user/broughy Second Channel: ruclips.net/user/broughysrandombits Follow Me Twitter: twitter.com/broughy1322 Facebook: facebook.com/broughy1322 Instagram: instagram.com/broughy1322 Discord: discord.gg/broughy1322 Support Me RUclips Membership: ruclips.net/user/broughy/join Patreon: patreon.com/broughy1322 Donate: streamlabs.com/broughy1322 Merchandise: broughy.com/merch
I like the imaginary wings in the game , like the cheetah classic . rear engine vanity hood with no spoiler and still gets the down force of a wing ..... must be the weight of the glass I guess LOL rockstar logic.
See, my thing is, that not only should spoilers have little to no effect on traction in GTA V/Online, but the different categories of wheels SHOULD (and to even greater of an effect than spoilers currently do). 'Cause spoilers actually have very little to do with traction in the real world. So if that's what R* was trying to achieve, (as far as the vehicles in their game) then they kinda missed the mark a little bit. R* should've made the spoilers to be more focused on increasing acceleration (specifically down slopes), as they have a far greater effect on that aspect of vehicles in the real world, on the aerodynamics and wind resistance of vehicles.
Imo the most broken cars are still that of the tuners dlc drift specific mods for cars that are broken no mid speed boost renders them useless with low grips and not much better with standard tyres wish there was a way to get them back how they were I mean nerf the calico one cars better than the whole dlcs cars right??
This X-80 thing surprizes me. How in the world can someone come up with a gaming mechanic that acts like the equivalent to flushing water spinning in the toilet on the northern/southern hemisphere?
As an amateur game developer I easily understand how could they make this mistake. 3D space mechanics are quite complicated. The intention probably was to check if the car turning left or right and only apply downforce to one side.
Here I was thinking nothing could surprise me anymore with the broken mechanics in this game but holy crap the x80 thing is so hilarious. can't believe it🤣 great work on this video
Same for me, was thinking it can’t get any crazier and then this… It does explain though why the X80 is such a hassle to handle sometimes so thanks Brough for that!
There's a dev at Rockstar sitting in a cubicle, fed up with no-one ever being happy with his attempted improvements to new cars, who decided one day while working on the x80 "Screw it, let those never-satisfied racers see just how bad things could have been".
I’ll be honest, I’ve been racing competitively in this game for nearly 8 years now, and call me arrogant, I wasn’t expecting to learn anything new here. But I’ll hold my hands up, I had no idea whatsoever that the X80 behaved differently depending on your location on the map, and it’s absolutely blown my mind lmao. GGs mate, good video 👏
I don't even race competitively, and I still thought this was gonna be an explanation about spoilers, and grip levels (stuff most of us who watch Brough's streams, and videos would know), and then BOOM! the X80 revelation. lmao
I can't believe rockstar can make a car so broken that a custom track for the X80 sounds *really* interesting You can have corners with low grip and high grip on both sides of the map and it will take probably more skill to learn the X80 around a custom track for it than any other car
I really hope the Comet S2 is fixed, because damn, I love the Comet. It’s crazy how Rockstar is so terrible at making cars work properly The X80 thing is funny too, how can a car be that broken? Very informative video, nice work as always :)
Ever since the RSX released and you said it was slower than intended, I always wanted to see what the "normal" RSX would look like around a track. At least now I've seen it's potential without it destroying the Sports class in the process.
@@Imitationist So if the RSX were to benefit solely from it's active spoiler, it would be roughly 1 second faster than the Emerus/Krieger. That's... a lot. 14:26 If the RSX were to benefit solely from its Downforce Modifier, it would be roughly 2 seconds faster than the Emerus/Krieger... That's broken. 14:44 Keep in mind that since the Cunning Stunts update about 5 years ago, R* has had a hard-on for downforce (vice spoilers). So by this trend, the RSX would have wrecked the Supers class. Keep in mind that Broughy's track tries to even out the amount of slow and fast sections (like a classic road race)... most R* stunt tracks are weighted towards fast turns which favors big downforce value cars such as the RSX. Nevermind the fact the RSX runs away from the Emerus/Krieger in top speed... It would be laughably broken. I actually always enjoyed racing the RSX despite owning a GTO, even though I knew I'd be battling understeer most of the time. The car is a low-down fat-bastard and you have to figure out how to tip toe around the corners. If R* figured activated any of its traction abilities, the car would become a cheat code. _____________ Edit: Looking at the Broughy's basic handling data broughy.com/gta5vehicleinfo the base cornering and straight line grips are pretty similar among all three vehicles. Keep in mind the Emerus is RWD and the Krieger is AWD but with only 20% power to the front wheels only. The RSX is AWD with 50/50 power to front/rear wheels, the braking power of the RSX is significantly better than either the two supercars, and its only downside is the bouncy Advanced Handling flag (which it battles with a relatively heavy weight). Effectively, if the RSX would much more easily fudge out braking/turning mistakes and could still quickly reset into a high-speed monster. It's an Itali GTO with a better engine, balance, transmission, brakes, and traction. The GTO already has top supercar pace - the RSX significantly improves on the GTO's gearing, weight (for balance against the bouncy AH flag), and brakes... This car shouldn't have been made. An amalgamation of these factors is why I think the free Turismo R (DLC - Criminal Enterprise Starter Pack) is the best thing R* ever offered. This Supercar, on face value has always been somewhat useable. It doesn't have the monster engine, it doesn't have a bajillion gears, and its grip is just okay. What it offers terrific braking in a classic RWD form. A lot of people think that you should give a newbie a cannon and completely fail the first corner, but if you give a newbie a pillow and they miss a swing in a friendly tussle... they can still stand and take another swing at the next corner. The RSX is a radar-guided rotary cannon in a pillow-fight. Ain't nobody gonna learn how to actually drive with it.
@@conorjohn490 > which it battles with a relatively heavy weight mass has no effect on performance in any way. Also the RSX's extra gears ain't exactly much of a benefit, and there are lot of factors you don't see that go into performance that can completely make or break a car. That's why even the most skilled and knowledgable person can never make accurate estimates based on the handling data, that's why we NEED to test things in-game
The x80 has been in the game for over 5 years now. I can't recall another car released since then that has separate flaps, wings, or the like for the right and left sides of the vehicle. Considering how "cool" of an idea this was when released, I'm convinced R* knew there was some symmetry issues and just scrapped the idea of future x80's instead of fixing it.
Fascinating video and many GGs to you, adam10603, Chilli, and Nismo for putting this together. If nothing else, I now feel less bad about my struggles in trying to drive the X80 Proto quickly. 😀
Brilliant video Broughy, great work. Only Rockstar could've came up with something as ridiculous as the X80 mechanics lol the Itali RSX is quite a "what if" tho, sub 56 second lap time is faster than the pre-nerf Emerus and Krieger, and it also comes with a 135 top speed.
@@NikkOcello17 and the nerf in question for these cars is specific to the effect they get from using off-road wheels(as in, then don't get advantages from using them).
So I always liked driving the X80 proto but it always just felt kinda weird and I never could put my finger on why and now I know. Thanks for the hard work! I wish the RSX was in supers class and they fixed the S2s
Crazy amount of effort out into this, congrats to broughy and all others involved. With YT being the place it is, sadly doubt you guys will get the views and traffic you deserve…. But those of us who watch these, we can’t ever thank you enough. What you do here is amazing. Thank you so much!
The X-80 segment had my metaphorical jaw on the floor. Rockstar are famous for there glitches but that might just be the most intentionally sounding unintentional glitch I've ever heard of
The main thing i will always say is that the viseris's broken top speed is the speed i want to be driving with downforce cars. And for open wheelers it should be even higher i personally hope that with the next game we can have really high top speeds and adequate grip. I for one actually really enjoy the downforce cars but just wish their top speeds where way higher.
That video has blown my mind, the X80 proto bug seems crazy. Great work Brough, very informative and eye opening! P.S. i like the number plate on the S2 Cabrio
The X80 fact blew my goddamn mind, only C* is capable of something like that, incredible video Brough, also hoping GTA 6 has a little more thought put into it lol Also turned off adblock for this vid, you're one of the only creators that deserve it
"Hoping GTA 6 has a bit more thought put into it" bro are you high? How did you watch this breakdown of unnecessarily detailed spoiler mechanics and come away with that conclusion Also if you think that that X80 bug is something "only R* is capable of" then I can only come to the conclusion you have never played another videogame
Most of us have heard of altitude affecting the performance of a vehicle irl. 16:18 Broughy: Let me introduce you to Eeastern and Western hemispheres. Me: * shocked Pikachu face * This explains so much... GGs to all involved with the research.
My theory is that the RSX was supposed to be a Supers car OG, but it was cut from there and they "broke" it to nerf it down to Sports pace without putting in effort.
i like how they kinda try to make it a bit realistic but at the same time its so messy and inconsistent btw the swinger is the most fun in my opinion because its fast and kinda grippy but also loose enough to go flying wildly if you are not careful
oh my god I swear I noticed that the x80 proto changed its physics mid-drive whenever I was delivering it for vehicle cargo. Sometimes it felt like it had infinite grip while in other corners it felt like it just lost its downforce all of a sudden. I always assumed that I was crazy and I was just experiencing weird bumps in the road or curbs or whatever, after all it's an urban environment and there's plenty of reasons you can't drive a car through a city the way you would on a track. But to be validated like this is surreal
Great work Brough, more evidence (not that we really needed more) that Rockstar have no single, overarching vision or goal for this game. They create something new, release it, forget all about it and then begin the cycle again. They ignore what's come before (and why certain decisions were made) and just keep pumping out content.
About X80.... *W H A T* This is definitely one of the most bizarre "bugs" i've ever seen in a videogame. Also it's flaps are working kinda slow and clunky, that explains the slowly rising turning curve.
Thanks for such a great video Broughy, some really great and even some ridiculous information here! The hype all week was well worth it, and it was fun to be apart of the thumbnail process on the twitch stream!
Hats off for creating this video. I've been playing this game for years now and I thought I knew basically everything there is to know about how cars function in this game, but there were so many aspects in this video which absolutely baffled me, especially the X-80 handling different depending on which side of the map you're driving on. Regarding the Itali RSX my theorie is that Rockstar orignally planned on putting it in the supers class since in its non-broken forms it would sit at the top of supers. Aside from that it also looks like a supercar and has the price of a supercar being one of the most expensive cars in the game with and without the trade price. I guess they knew the car would be broken and instead of going trough the "effort" of fixing the car, they've just smacked it in sports. Sounds like a classic Rockstar thing to do.
brilliantly researched video! the X80 is just shocking! but i highly doubt Rockstar is going to spend the time to fix that one since its a forgotten car at this point.
I decided to check this video for some fun and man was I in for a treat. X80 aero mechanism in this game is truly broken and Rockstar probably scrapped the idea of cars with active flaps in the future like other commentators said. Great informative video!
Would have loved seeing an estimation on how much the X80 proto´s performance on your test-track has been affected by the bugged flaps. Maybe a side by side with corners suitable for the x80 (either left or right combinations) with other super cars as a benchmark. Great video regardless, will definitely watch it again from time to time!
Most of the corners are right turns, and with the track being on the right hand side of the map, it means the x80 will have been acting like it has no spoiler for most of the lap. Probably loses maybe 0.5-1 second or so I’d guess, since it’s not the most grippy car in general to be fair so wouldn’t be as badly affected as say an Osiris or T20
@@broughy1322 (I know you're frackin' busy) Be careful with your comments. You make it seem as if the Osiris and T20 are also affected by the same map symmetry bug as the X80. Edit: the only car determined in this video to have a different WDV based on location is the X80. Your Osiris and T20 are safe everywhere in GTA5.
Superb work adam10603, Chilli, Nismo & Broughy. I can see why this video took so much time & effort to make. Discovering how the game mechanics work is one thing, but you also ensured all your findings backed up with solid live data visible on screen for all to see. Outstanding!
this is pure scientific research. Impressive. Rockstar should hire you for testing. They literally has no idea what their car looks like in real-game use.
design, handling file and price all point to the RSX having been intended as a supercar, and when a dev tested it just thrown into the sports class as there was no time to fix it before release
Good observation. I always thought the RSX felt ridiculously out of place in sports, and by costing like 3 million it should have been the fastest supercar judging by rockstars behaviour. Thank god this bug exists, the sportscar class has some resemblance of balance
irl the SF90 Stradale is an incredibly fast supercar so it really makes no sense why they decided to put it as a sports car and even the design of the body shape just screams supercar like
@@Johnny362000 to a certain extent they do, they keep adding cars that are slightly too fast for competitive racing to classes, except for when the cars have purchase criteria other than racing. it"s not how players would like stuff to be classed, or something that can create a consistent system, but it is a quite stable pattern
Damn. X-80 info just sounds so ridiculous. Being dev myself (not a gamedev tho), it is still hard to imagine, how this was even programmed. Good job, Broughy!
Now I think about it, I used to drive the X80 from La Mesa to the casino all the time and I would wing it at the left hand turn (near the broken bridge spot next to the new auto shop) and it would work fine, but when I go back I always felt like I had to go slower. Not sure if its just placebo but hey I guess now I have an explanation
to be honest the comet S2s and the itali RSX deserve the speed that they are missing, maybe just lower the base downforce modifier so that it isnt too op because i do love the itali RSX
Just wanna say this is the first vid of yours and first gta vid I've seen in years. I'm impressed by your breakdown of the math, and wanted to let you know the algorithm brought me here!
Thanks a lot Adam, Chilli, Nismo and Broughy for all the work leading to this video. Can't imagine the number of hours it took to figure out all the information shown here. Some cars also have weird behaviours on jumps and the downforce modifier might have a say on those. Just as an example, on Vicious Spiral (Rockstar Stunt Track), there's a vertical fall halfway through the track and for some reason, the Krieger falls much faster than the Deveste Eight to reach the platform at the bottom.
could also have something to do with the cars drag value maybe? you could try if a tezeract falls faster than a krieger when jumping at the same time. if it does, it's most likely the drag.
@@NikkOcello17 it's a number in the cars handling files. The way cars drive in the game is determined by a set of those numbers each car has. For example they all have a number for engine power, a number for how many gears the car has etc. In real life drag is how much the air slows down the car. A car with a lot of drag (imagine a mercedes G wagon) gets slowed down a lot by the air, it has to work really hard to push through it. A car with low drag cuts through the air easily and doesn't really get slowed down by it. The game simulates this in a way. The lower the cars drag number is in the game, the better. The tezeract for example has a really low one. It doesn't need much engine power and can still go fast. Cars with a big drag number need more engine power to go the same speed. I hope this makes sense.
I love this. When i bought the RSX I've always felt like this car has something odd about it, it goes so fast but i feel like it's not performing well at some points. Now i know why. Thank you for such a great video.
That info about the X80 blew my mind! Never imagined something like map location would be a factor. I’d really like to know how that was figured out too. I loved driving that car but next time I go on I’m going to be thinking really differently when driving it XD
These are great findings from the boys over at NoDo. Watching the X80 turn on the spot while gaining and losing grip precisely on the half-way line is the most baffling GTA fun-fact I've seen this year. It makes me want to go back through the archives and watch back every X80 Proto race I've ever done to see whether I can pick up on it haha.
The X80 explanation doesn't even surprise me. But how weird it had to be coded to react like this. It's like that [IRL] vortex effect of water going down the plug-hole depending on where you are in the world, depends on how it spirals clockwise or counter-clockwise.
Masterfully done! It's too bad that they won't bother to fix it. Something like E&E seems like the perfect opportunity to address these bugs but I won't be getting my hopes up. I guess we'll know more about E&E in two weeks though...
Great video! I couldn't agree more with the comment about newer cars being too easy to drive and ruining the competitiveness of others cars in class. The Club, Emerus, and whatever the current muscle class meta is. I used to always make sure that I owned at least one best in class vehicle, but I just don't like some of the newer cars so I haven't bought some of them. But if I turn up to a race with a car that I actually enjoy driving, then it's not even close to fun with some of the cars that I'd be up against. Probably why I don't bother racing anymore.
That's why me and the people I race with use random cars every race so we don't have to worry about racing the fastest car every race and we get to use a lot of cars that normally don't get used in races. Most people automatically pick the fastest car and it gets old quick
@@Moreton2 no I'm on PS4. Just tell them to press the touch pad at the vehicle selection screen until the first custom car shows up. I race with a lot of the same people in a chat group and that's our rule for the playlist. It sucks when people only use the top cars every race.
Such a shame for the Comet S2s...you can rly feel the potential in them to compete against the Comet SR or the top of the Tuners subclass. The Itali RSX should've been in the Supers class imo, especially if it is to be fixed. The looks of this car alone suits the said class much better.
Incredible work! Even though I’m just a casual player, I love your videos and this is incredibly informative. Although now I think it would be nice to see some more adder races :)
This was incredibly informative and a great deep dive into the development of car performance over the years. I always wondered what the intention was behind some of Rockstar's choices. A faster Comet S2/Cabrio would be nice tho.
The X80 thing is hilarious. I'm almost happy there are bugs like these, because they're funny... except that then I remember R* 'fixed' the tuner low grip 'exploit'... because it was fun? It's funny because GTA isn't a racing game but for some reason it's just so fun to race/drive in it.
Very interesting video Broughy, really glad you made this video because it answers a lot of questions about most of these cars I've had for years but never found a proper explanation. I'd like to think that Rockstar would fix issues like the X80's broken downforce to be fixed in E&E, but it's Rockstar...
Wow, that was a great explaining video! I cannot believe whats wrong with the X80, that also explains it's weird and inconsistent way of driving. I hope that Rockstar will not change the RSX though, because that would force everybody to buy shark cards in order to afford a 3,5 million dollar vehicle that would be the only options for races since all other cars would be, like you already said, way off the pace. And obviosly, Rockstar would not put it in the supers class if they made that change, (where it would also be the only choice for races). I agree that low top speeds limit the skill of driving, if some cars could archieve top speeds of 200mph or higher, it would make racing way more interesting and it would also bring an element of skill to those long highway races, since the handling of the cars would be highly affected by the speed and it became a challenge to control the vehicle at those high speeds. It's already possible to experience those top speeds on some fivem servers, it makes racing more intense and interesting. Talking about the spoilers, I think there should be a traction upgrade available for all vehicles, it should be an upgrade like the engine or turbo upgrade, which would not change any visualisations on the car like spoilers do now. This would simply be better because the spoiler ruins the design for some vehicles, such as the wheel on the stirling gt's trunk. I would improve some vehicles in general that are completely off the pace because they don't get a traction bonus like the Adder, Bullet, Exemplar and many more. Moat of those cars would not be on the top pace obviously, but it would make them balanced to race with other vehicles. I think that the Bullet as an example would be on the same pace as the Vacca, if it had a traction upgrade. @Broughy1322 what do you think of this idea? Thank you for this well explained and detailed video broughy!👍
I've always hated the X80 Proto because i thought it took corners inconsistently. Thanks for clearing this up! btw a guy I raced with recently (in sports classics) ragequitted because the Turismo Classic was too bad for him. Not joking
Recently I was driving my Banshee without a spoiler and honestly it was more fun than some of my newer and faster cars, and currently I’m using my Ruiner with a spoiler and honestly I wish more cars drove like they did back then.
What a good video your work was worth it! Sad that Rockstar probably won't change anything and racing is gonna stay boring for race enthusiasts. You could argue that this is better for casual players who can't invest as much into this game as others. But they don't have 3 mil to spend on a effing car because they don't grind.
Holyyy, how did I miss this video?? I just got both the Itali RSX and X80 last month to mess around on tracks because of the active spoiler, and wondered why I kept consistently getting slower lap times on The North Loop than cars with slower lap times
Love the video. So informative. That is why the Tulip is forever my favourite. Beautiful and challenging. The reward of driving it perfectly is priceless. I still drive the Zentorno a lot also. Love the OG king.
Well done sir, now that's some proper YouTubing. Research, clean editing, relevant and interesting topic, fresh contribution to public knowledge. Thank you for being a shining beacon of hope on this website. This comment is also to tilt the algorithm in your favor - but keep it up, it's mighty fine work !
Fantastic work, really interesting to take a look behind the curtains to see how cars worked in this game One question, if I had a fixed wing on an active spoiler car it still works like it has an active spoiler? because that's what I got from the wording in the video.
Because the top speed of each car is listed in the game files (even though it’s regularly surpassed in game), so the graphs are accurately representing that for those cars
@@broughy1322 Thank you for the clarification, the 90% vs 90mph makes perfect sense now. (Apologies for ever doubting you.) According to Broughy's marvellous spreadsheet, the cars shown being tested have 'Max Speed' values of around 160 in the game data. If we assume this is Kilometres per hour and multiply it by 0.62 to convert to miles per hour, we get 99.82mph - which we can round up to 100mph. So 90% of the 'Max Speed' value is 90mph. Watching the Kreiger test back in slow motion it reaches peak WDF at just over 90mph, which seems consistent with its slightly higher 'Max Speed' value of 161.8 (just over 100 mph).
You have to remember that we're still beta testing this game made by an indie developer, that doesn't have the financial capabilities to find or fix most of the bugs in their game.
This video has probably taken the most raw hours to create of any on my channel so far, from research to writing, recording to gathering footage, and a gruelling editing process, it has been a mammoth undertaking. But I think it turned out to be one of my best videos. I hope you enjoy!
*Various Info & Links*
More GTA 5 Videos: broughy.com/gta5
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Check the video description for series playlist, plus more relevant info & links!
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"mammoth undertaking" are you hinting at a new car you have info on here?
And MOM said I couldn't learn anything from playing video games. Nice vid Broughy
I like the imaginary wings in the game , like the cheetah classic . rear engine vanity hood with no spoiler and still gets the down force of a wing ..... must be the weight of the glass I guess LOL rockstar logic.
See, my thing is, that not only should spoilers have little to no effect on traction in GTA V/Online, but the different categories of wheels SHOULD (and to even greater of an effect than spoilers currently do). 'Cause spoilers actually have very little to do with traction in the real world. So if that's what R* was trying to achieve, (as far as the vehicles in their game) then they kinda missed the mark a little bit. R* should've made the spoilers to be more focused on increasing acceleration (specifically down slopes), as they have a far greater effect on that aspect of vehicles in the real world, on the aerodynamics and wind resistance of vehicles.
Imo the most broken cars are still that of the tuners dlc drift specific mods for cars that are broken no mid speed boost renders them useless with low grips and not much better with standard tyres wish there was a way to get them back how they were I mean nerf the calico one cars better than the whole dlcs cars right??
This X-80 thing surprizes me. How in the world can someone come up with a gaming mechanic that acts like the equivalent to flushing water spinning in the toilet on the northern/southern hemisphere?
Lol
As an amateur game developer I easily understand how could they make this mistake. 3D space mechanics are quite complicated. The intention probably was to check if the car turning left or right and only apply downforce to one side.
@@shortcat And then they forgot to remove the "test" flag...
The water spinning thing is not true
Here I was thinking nothing could surprise me anymore with the broken mechanics in this game but holy crap the x80 thing is so hilarious. can't believe it🤣 great work on this video
Same for me, was thinking it can’t get any crazier and then this…
It does explain though why the X80 is such a hassle to handle sometimes so thanks Brough for that!
I'm honestly curious what they'll break next...
There's a dev at Rockstar sitting in a cubicle, fed up with no-one ever being happy with his attempted improvements to new cars, who decided one day while working on the x80 "Screw it, let those never-satisfied racers see just how bad things could have been".
I’ll be honest, I’ve been racing competitively in this game for nearly 8 years now, and call me arrogant, I wasn’t expecting to learn anything new here. But I’ll hold my hands up, I had no idea whatsoever that the X80 behaved differently depending on your location on the map, and it’s absolutely blown my mind lmao. GGs mate, good video 👏
damn your YT name sounds familiar i might have raced and lost to you if ur GTAO name is the same
I don't even race competitively, and I still thought this was gonna be an explanation about spoilers, and grip levels (stuff most of us who watch Brough's streams, and videos would know), and then BOOM! the X80 revelation. lmao
Why not buy a proper racing game? lol
@@S1lverArr0w what game offers the type of racing gta does?
@@PLPlolol1 There are many. Gran Turismo being just one example. Look for yourself
I can't believe rockstar can make a car so broken that a custom track for the X80 sounds *really* interesting
You can have corners with low grip and high grip on both sides of the map and it will take probably more skill to learn the X80 around a custom track for it than any other car
I really hope the Comet S2 is fixed, because damn, I love the Comet.
It’s crazy how Rockstar is so terrible at making cars work properly
The X80 thing is funny too, how can a car be that broken?
Very informative video, nice work as always :)
Still waiting bud, still waiting
@@Haemorrhoid_gaming Comet still ain't getting any love from R*
Ever since the RSX released and you said it was slower than intended, I always wanted to see what the "normal" RSX would look like around a track. At least now I've seen it's potential without it destroying the Sports class in the process.
Yeah it’s one of those “so now we know - let’s hope it never happens” type things
Would it have broken the supers category?
@@Imitationist So if the RSX were to benefit solely from it's active spoiler, it would be roughly 1 second faster than the Emerus/Krieger. That's... a lot. 14:26
If the RSX were to benefit solely from its Downforce Modifier, it would be roughly 2 seconds faster than the Emerus/Krieger... That's broken. 14:44
Keep in mind that since the Cunning Stunts update about 5 years ago, R* has had a hard-on for downforce (vice spoilers). So by this trend, the RSX would have wrecked the Supers class. Keep in mind that Broughy's track tries to even out the amount of slow and fast sections (like a classic road race)... most R* stunt tracks are weighted towards fast turns which favors big downforce value cars such as the RSX. Nevermind the fact the RSX runs away from the Emerus/Krieger in top speed... It would be laughably broken.
I actually always enjoyed racing the RSX despite owning a GTO, even though I knew I'd be battling understeer most of the time. The car is a low-down fat-bastard and you have to figure out how to tip toe around the corners. If R* figured activated any of its traction abilities, the car would become a cheat code.
_____________
Edit: Looking at the Broughy's basic handling data broughy.com/gta5vehicleinfo the base cornering and straight line grips are pretty similar among all three vehicles. Keep in mind the Emerus is RWD and the Krieger is AWD but with only 20% power to the front wheels only. The RSX is AWD with 50/50 power to front/rear wheels, the braking power of the RSX is significantly better than either the two supercars, and its only downside is the bouncy Advanced Handling flag (which it battles with a relatively heavy weight). Effectively, if the RSX would much more easily fudge out braking/turning mistakes and could still quickly reset into a high-speed monster.
It's an Itali GTO with a better engine, balance, transmission, brakes, and traction. The GTO already has top supercar pace - the RSX significantly improves on the GTO's gearing, weight (for balance against the bouncy AH flag), and brakes... This car shouldn't have been made.
An amalgamation of these factors is why I think the free Turismo R (DLC - Criminal Enterprise Starter Pack) is the best thing R* ever offered. This Supercar, on face value has always been somewhat useable. It doesn't have the monster engine, it doesn't have a bajillion gears, and its grip is just okay. What it offers terrific braking in a classic RWD form. A lot of people think that you should give a newbie a cannon and completely fail the first corner, but if you give a newbie a pillow and they miss a swing in a friendly tussle... they can still stand and take another swing at the next corner. The RSX is a radar-guided rotary cannon in a pillow-fight. Ain't nobody gonna learn how to actually drive with it.
@@conorjohn490 > which it battles with a relatively heavy weight
mass has no effect on performance in any way. Also the RSX's extra gears ain't exactly much of a benefit, and there are lot of factors you don't see that go into performance that can completely make or break a car. That's why even the most skilled and knowledgable person can never make accurate estimates based on the handling data, that's why we NEED to test things in-game
The x80 has been in the game for over 5 years now. I can't recall another car released since then that has separate flaps, wings, or the like for the right and left sides of the vehicle. Considering how "cool" of an idea this was when released, I'm convinced R* knew there was some symmetry issues and just scrapped the idea of future x80's instead of fixing it.
That just adds more realism to the game! We ended up buying a prototype car that ended up getting scrapped because it couldn't be perfected! LOL
@@GrimAhrenit is a shame though because this technology isn’t prototype irl. Paganini use it and it looks soooo cool
@@lbnewell23the X80 is a Ferrari F80 concept not a Pagani tho
Fascinating video and many GGs to you, adam10603, Chilli, and Nismo for putting this together. If nothing else, I now feel less bad about my struggles in trying to drive the X80 Proto quickly. 😀
Brilliant video Broughy, great work. Only Rockstar could've came up with something as ridiculous as the X80 mechanics lol
the Itali RSX is quite a "what if" tho, sub 56 second lap time is faster than the pre-nerf Emerus and Krieger, and it also comes with a 135 top speed.
I can't keep up anymore with all of their nerf, which one are you referring to about Krieger and Emerus?
@@NikkOcello17 they both used to be in the 57s, they're now both in the 58s
@@NikkOcello17 and the nerf in question for these cars is specific to the effect they get from using off-road wheels(as in, then don't get advantages from using them).
So I always liked driving the X80 proto but it always just felt kinda weird and I never could put my finger on why and now I know. Thanks for the hard work! I wish the RSX was in supers class and they fixed the S2s
@20:00 to skip spoilers :D
Crazy amount of effort out into this, congrats to broughy and all others involved. With YT being the place it is, sadly doubt you guys will get the views and traffic you deserve…. But those of us who watch these, we can’t ever thank you enough. What you do here is amazing. Thank you so much!
The X-80 segment had my metaphorical jaw on the floor. Rockstar are famous for there glitches but that might just be the most intentionally sounding unintentional glitch I've ever heard of
The main thing i will always say is that the viseris's broken top speed is the speed i want to be driving with downforce cars. And for open wheelers it should be even higher i personally hope that with the next game we can have really high top speeds and adequate grip. I for one actually really enjoy the downforce cars but just wish their top speeds where way higher.
That video has blown my mind, the X80 proto bug seems crazy. Great work Brough, very informative and eye opening!
P.S. i like the number plate on the S2 Cabrio
I've never knew how to do custom plates, or is it just FiveM?
@@chichochicc los Santos customs phone app
The X80 fact blew my goddamn mind, only C* is capable of something like that, incredible video Brough, also hoping GTA 6 has a little more thought put into it lol
Also turned off adblock for this vid, you're one of the only creators that deserve it
"Hoping GTA 6 has a bit more thought put into it" bro are you high? How did you watch this breakdown of unnecessarily detailed spoiler mechanics and come away with that conclusion
Also if you think that that X80 bug is something "only R* is capable of" then I can only come to the conclusion you have never played another videogame
Most of us have heard of altitude affecting the performance of a vehicle irl.
16:18 Broughy: Let me introduce you to Eeastern and Western hemispheres.
Me: * shocked Pikachu face *
This explains so much...
GGs to all involved with the research.
Have been subscribed to you ever since the original Cunning Stunts update back in summer of 2016. Cheers on all of your hard work, I’m serious.
My theory is that the RSX was supposed to be a Supers car OG, but it was cut from there and they "broke" it to nerf it down to Sports pace without putting in effort.
it's one of the most expensive cars in the game, definitely doesn't make sense that it's not a super
@@richardbottom9843 Not just that, the general shape of the car also screams Super.
Its based off of an SF90. Its incredulous to me how R* can justify it as a sports car.
@@BopPop42 well its also got some styling bits like the F8 Tributo and Centinaurio, only furthering that idea of it being a Supers reject
i think you're giving Rockstar too much credit, it's more likely accidental breakage:D
i like how they kinda try to make it a bit realistic
but at the same time its so messy and inconsistent
btw the swinger is the most fun in my opinion because its fast and kinda grippy but also loose enough to go flying wildly if you are not careful
oh my god I swear I noticed that the x80 proto changed its physics mid-drive whenever I was delivering it for vehicle cargo. Sometimes it felt like it had infinite grip while in other corners it felt like it just lost its downforce all of a sudden. I always assumed that I was crazy and I was just experiencing weird bumps in the road or curbs or whatever, after all it's an urban environment and there's plenty of reasons you can't drive a car through a city the way you would on a track. But to be validated like this is surreal
Great work Brough, more evidence (not that we really needed more) that Rockstar have no single, overarching vision or goal for this game. They create something new, release it, forget all about it and then begin the cycle again. They ignore what's come before (and why certain decisions were made) and just keep pumping out content.
I think having cars with less grip and proper 200mph top speed would make races way more fun.
Just play forza
@@robohat4837 forza is shit.. feels like driving flying potatoes.
Yeah and everyone in online racing in forza basically AWD swaps their cars for the best performance, creating the same problem
I dream of Gran Turismo physics ina GTA game
@@robohat4837 forza sucks
About X80....
*W H A T*
This is definitely one of the most bizarre "bugs" i've ever seen in a videogame.
Also it's flaps are working kinda slow and clunky, that explains the slowly rising turning curve.
Thanks for such a great video Broughy, some really great and even some ridiculous information here! The hype all week was well worth it, and it was fun to be apart of the thumbnail process on the twitch stream!
Hats off for creating this video. I've been playing this game for years now and I thought I knew basically everything there is to know about how cars function in this game, but there were so many aspects in this video which absolutely baffled me, especially the X-80 handling different depending on which side of the map you're driving on.
Regarding the Itali RSX my theorie is that Rockstar orignally planned on putting it in the supers class since in its non-broken forms it would sit at the top of supers. Aside from that it also looks like a supercar and has the price of a supercar being one of the most expensive cars in the game with and without the trade price. I guess they knew the car would be broken and instead of going trough the "effort" of fixing the car, they've just smacked it in sports. Sounds like a classic Rockstar thing to do.
I had to quickly check it wasn't April 1st when you got to the X80 - unbelievable! 🤣
brilliantly researched video! the X80 is just shocking! but i highly doubt Rockstar is going to spend the time to fix that one since its a forgotten car at this point.
Remarkable, as always - thank you Broughy for being our resident expert, nice work on the thumbnail, too! :)
I decided to check this video for some fun and man was I in for a treat. X80 aero mechanism in this game is truly broken and Rockstar probably scrapped the idea of cars with active flaps in the future like other commentators said. Great informative video!
Would have loved seeing an estimation on how much the X80 proto´s performance on your test-track has been affected by the bugged flaps. Maybe a side by side with corners suitable for the x80 (either left or right combinations) with other super cars as a benchmark.
Great video regardless, will definitely watch it again from time to time!
Most of the corners are right turns, and with the track being on the right hand side of the map, it means the x80 will have been acting like it has no spoiler for most of the lap. Probably loses maybe 0.5-1 second or so I’d guess, since it’s not the most grippy car in general to be fair so wouldn’t be as badly affected as say an Osiris or T20
@@broughy1322 (I know you're frackin' busy) Be careful with your comments. You make it seem as if the Osiris and T20 are also affected by the same map symmetry bug as the X80.
Edit: the only car determined in this video to have a different WDV based on location is the X80. Your Osiris and T20 are safe everywhere in GTA5.
@@conorjohn490 only if you're shit at reading comprehension
This was so well-made
Huge props to you and the research team for putting it together!
Superb work adam10603, Chilli, Nismo & Broughy. I can see why this video took so much time & effort to make. Discovering how the game mechanics work is one thing, but you also ensured all your findings backed up with solid live data visible on screen for all to see. Outstanding!
this is pure scientific research. Impressive. Rockstar should hire you for testing. They literally has no idea what their car looks like in real-game use.
design, handling file and price all point to the RSX having been intended as a supercar, and when a dev tested it just thrown into the sports class as there was no time to fix it before release
Good observation. I always thought the RSX felt ridiculously out of place in sports, and by costing like 3 million it should have been the fastest supercar judging by rockstars behaviour.
Thank god this bug exists, the sportscar class has some resemblance of balance
that would imply they class cars based on their performance
irl the SF90 Stradale is an incredibly fast supercar so it really makes no sense why they decided to put it as a sports car and even the design of the body shape just screams supercar like
@@Johnny362000 you are implying rockstar has any sort of consistency xD
@@Johnny362000 to a certain extent they do, they keep adding cars that are slightly too fast for competitive racing to classes, except for when the cars have purchase criteria other than racing.
it"s not how players would like stuff to be classed, or something that can create a consistent system, but it is a quite stable pattern
Damn. X-80 info just sounds so ridiculous. Being dev myself (not a gamedev tho), it is still hard to imagine, how this was even programmed.
Good job, Broughy!
Now I think about it, I used to drive the X80 from La Mesa to the casino all the time and I would wing it at the left hand turn (near the broken bridge spot next to the new auto shop) and it would work fine, but when I go back I always felt like I had to go slower. Not sure if its just placebo but hey I guess now I have an explanation
to be honest the comet S2s and the itali RSX deserve the speed that they are missing, maybe just lower the base downforce modifier so that it isnt too op because i do love the itali RSX
First and foremost, happy birthday legend!
Just wanna say this is the first vid of yours and first gta vid I've seen in years. I'm impressed by your breakdown of the math, and wanted to let you know the algorithm brought me here!
The X80 had me laugh so hard. How did any dev at R* mess this up so hard? 😂
What a weird and crazy game. Great video.
We need some X80 tracks across the map that make you experience all the different grip levels. 😂
Thanks a lot Adam, Chilli, Nismo and Broughy for all the work leading to this video. Can't imagine the number of hours it took to figure out all the information shown here.
Some cars also have weird behaviours on jumps and the downforce modifier might have a say on those. Just as an example, on Vicious Spiral (Rockstar Stunt Track), there's a vertical fall halfway through the track and for some reason, the Krieger falls much faster than the Deveste Eight to reach the platform at the bottom.
could also have something to do with the cars drag value maybe? you could try if a tezeract falls faster than a krieger when jumping at the same time. if it does, it's most likely the drag.
And then there's the Tezeract that likes to "float" on those jumps
@@mr_obst3077 can you please explain the meaning of "drag" in this context for a non-english speaker?
@@NikkOcello17 it's a number in the cars handling files. The way cars drive in the game is determined by a set of those numbers each car has. For example they all have a number for engine power, a number for how many gears the car has etc.
In real life drag is how much the air slows down the car. A car with a lot of drag (imagine a mercedes G wagon) gets slowed down a lot by the air, it has to work really hard to push through it. A car with low drag cuts through the air easily and doesn't really get slowed down by it. The game simulates this in a way. The lower the cars drag number is in the game, the better. The tezeract for example has a really low one. It doesn't need much engine power and can still go fast. Cars with a big drag number need more engine power to go the same speed.
I hope this makes sense.
Some cars are programmed to have higher gravity (it's a handling flag). That may be the case with the Krieger
That was an eye opener. It's crazy to see how much GTA had developed it's cars since the old days, for better or worse
I love this. When i bought the RSX I've always felt like this car has something odd about it, it goes so fast but i feel like it's not performing well at some points. Now i know why. Thank you for such a great video.
Incredible work Broughy! The X80 Proto and RSX facts were absolutely mind blowing.
That info about the X80 blew my mind!
Never imagined something like map location would be a factor. I’d really like to know how that was figured out too.
I loved driving that car but next time I go on I’m going to be thinking really differently when driving it XD
Gotta admit, I watched it now. And have to give you that it's probably one of the best out there. Not only from you, but also on GTA V as a whole!
:)
These are great findings from the boys over at NoDo. Watching the X80 turn on the spot while gaining and losing grip precisely on the half-way line is the most baffling GTA fun-fact I've seen this year. It makes me want to go back through the archives and watch back every X80 Proto race I've ever done to see whether I can pick up on it haha.
The X80 explanation doesn't even surprise me. But how weird it had to be coded to react like this. It's like that [IRL] vortex effect of water going down the plug-hole depending on where you are in the world, depends on how it spirals clockwise or counter-clockwise.
Overriden left and right variables for the x80 wing is quite hilarious
Masterfully done! It's too bad that they won't bother to fix it. Something like E&E seems like the perfect opportunity to address these bugs but I won't be getting my hopes up. I guess we'll know more about E&E in two weeks though...
THIS. WAS. AWESOME. I can't believe how fast the RSX could have been. Whelp! Buying back my Adder now. I want to experience it's greatness again.
Absolutely mind blowing. Fantastic work as always Broughy & thank you for the info.
been waiting for this since you mentioned it yesterday
Great video! I couldn't agree more with the comment about newer cars being too easy to drive and ruining the competitiveness of others cars in class. The Club, Emerus, and whatever the current muscle class meta is. I used to always make sure that I owned at least one best in class vehicle, but I just don't like some of the newer cars so I haven't bought some of them. But if I turn up to a race with a car that I actually enjoy driving, then it's not even close to fun with some of the cars that I'd be up against. Probably why I don't bother racing anymore.
That's why me and the people I race with use random cars every race so we don't have to worry about racing the fastest car every race and we get to use a lot of cars that normally don't get used in races. Most people automatically pick the fastest car and it gets old quick
@@JBlades88WV how do you get people to use random cars? Is that a PC thing? I'm on Xbox and I've not seen a setting that gives people random cars.
@@Moreton2 no I'm on PS4. Just tell them to press the touch pad at the vehicle selection screen until the first custom car shows up. I race with a lot of the same people in a chat group and that's our rule for the playlist. It sucks when people only use the top cars every race.
Such a shame for the Comet S2s...you can rly feel the potential in them to compete against the Comet SR or the top of the Tuners subclass.
The Itali RSX should've been in the Supers class imo, especially if it is to be fixed. The looks of this car alone suits the said class much better.
Incredible work! Even though I’m just a casual player, I love your videos and this is incredibly informative. Although now I think it would be nice to see some more adder races :)
This was incredibly informative and a great deep dive into the development of car performance over the years. I always wondered what the intention was behind some of Rockstar's choices. A faster Comet S2/Cabrio would be nice tho.
The comet s2 had a decent top speed when it was released until R* nerfed it. Now all the tuners are terrible to drive.
Makes me think of the guys in GT1 in MCEC S4, having to drive the X80 for 90 minutes around BC24h xD
that transition from the s2 Cabrio to the itali RSX tho
The X80 thing is hilarious. I'm almost happy there are bugs like these, because they're funny... except that then I remember R* 'fixed' the tuner low grip 'exploit'... because it was fun?
It's funny because GTA isn't a racing game but for some reason it's just so fun to race/drive in it.
Yes! Thank you Broughy ✌️
Very informative video! Thx Bruff:)
Wow, super interesting video, thanks for posting this! Also lol about the broken-ness of the the X80🤣
Most hardworking video Broughy has made. Like and share
Very interesting video Broughy, really glad you made this video because it answers a lot of questions about most of these cars I've had for years but never found a proper explanation.
I'd like to think that Rockstar would fix issues like the X80's broken downforce to be fixed in E&E, but it's Rockstar...
This video is so dense, and full of knowledgeable info. Great work!
Wow, that was a great explaining video!
I cannot believe whats wrong with the X80, that also explains it's weird and inconsistent way of driving.
I hope that Rockstar will not change the RSX though, because that would force everybody to buy shark cards in order to afford a 3,5 million dollar vehicle that would be the only options for races since all other cars would be, like you already said, way off the pace. And obviosly, Rockstar would not put it in the supers class if they made that change, (where it would also be the only choice for races).
I agree that low top speeds limit the skill of driving, if some cars could archieve top speeds of 200mph or higher, it would make racing way more interesting and it would also bring an element of skill to those long highway races, since the handling of the cars would be highly affected by the speed and it became a challenge to control the vehicle at those high speeds. It's already possible to experience those top speeds on some fivem servers, it makes racing more intense and interesting.
Talking about the spoilers, I think there should be a traction upgrade available for all vehicles, it should be an upgrade like the engine or turbo upgrade, which would not change any visualisations on the car like spoilers do now. This would simply be better because the spoiler ruins the design for some vehicles, such as the wheel on the stirling gt's trunk. I would improve some vehicles in general that are completely off the pace because they don't get a traction bonus like the Adder, Bullet, Exemplar and many more. Moat of those cars would not be on the top pace obviously, but it would make them balanced to race with other vehicles. I think that the Bullet as an example would be on the same pace as the Vacca, if it had a traction upgrade.
@Broughy1322 what do you think of this idea?
Thank you for this well explained and detailed video broughy!👍
I didn't think it was possible, but Rockstar's incompetence has once again surprised me.
I always thought the X80 Proto felt like a boat, now I know why.
I've always hated the X80 Proto because i thought it took corners inconsistently. Thanks for clearing this up! btw a guy I raced with recently (in sports classics) ragequitted because the Turismo Classic was too bad for him. Not joking
Some people just can't handle power
Wow. Now it makes sense why the X80 can sometimes take sharp turns, and sometimes not. Interesting.
I wonder if it can ever be fixed.
I finally understand why I like the Tyrus so much. Awesome work, as always. Thank you.
Recently I was driving my Banshee without a spoiler and honestly it was more fun than some of my newer and faster cars, and currently I’m using my Ruiner with a spoiler and honestly I wish more cars drove like they did back then.
Thanks for all the hard work Brough!
thank you very much for keeping us informed =)
I was waiting for this video.
What a good video your work was worth it! Sad that Rockstar probably won't change anything and racing is gonna stay boring for race enthusiasts. You could argue that this is better for casual players who can't invest as much into this game as others. But they don't have 3 mil to spend on a effing car because they don't grind.
Informative as always, tweaked quite a few of my cars as close to perfection as possible thanks to your videos.
Holyyy, how did I miss this video?? I just got both the Itali RSX and X80 last month to mess around on tracks because of the active spoiler, and wondered why I kept consistently getting slower lap times on The North Loop than cars with slower lap times
Love the video. So informative. That is why the Tulip is forever my favourite. Beautiful and challenging. The reward of driving it perfectly is priceless.
I still drive the Zentorno a lot also. Love the OG king.
Really great video. I hope we get some better mechanics in the next gta.
This was an amazing and fun video. Top job, Brough.
Been waiting for this😅
Incredible research, insight, analysis and communication thereof!
Well done sir, now that's some proper YouTubing. Research, clean editing, relevant and interesting topic, fresh contribution to public knowledge. Thank you for being a shining beacon of hope on this website.
This comment is also to tilt the algorithm in your favor - but keep it up, it's mighty fine work !
hey great video!
I knew there was something off about the x80 proto. Sometimes it handles great and other times it's sliding all over the place around corners
Awesome video Broughy as always. Many thanks for the upload mate 👍👍👍👍👍
Such a great video! The X80 is my most favorite car to race in supers, but that bug is insane and hilarious 🤪😄
Fantastic work, really interesting to take a look behind the curtains to see how cars worked in this game
One question, if I had a fixed wing on an active spoiler car it still works like it has an active spoiler? because that's what I got from the wording in the video.
Correct
10:02 and I guess the other similar graphs. You refer to the times as percentage of top speed, but the graph shows just raw speed.
Because the top speed of each car is listed in the game files (even though it’s regularly surpassed in game), so the graphs are accurately representing that for those cars
@@broughy1322 Thank you for the clarification, the 90% vs 90mph makes perfect sense now. (Apologies for ever doubting you.)
According to Broughy's marvellous spreadsheet, the cars shown being tested have 'Max Speed' values of around 160 in the game data. If we assume this is Kilometres per hour and multiply it by 0.62 to convert to miles per hour, we get 99.82mph - which we can round up to 100mph. So 90% of the 'Max Speed' value is 90mph.
Watching the Kreiger test back in slow motion it reaches peak WDF at just over 90mph, which seems consistent with its slightly higher 'Max Speed' value of 161.8 (just over 100 mph).
That X80 situation made me crack a laugh, that's amazing
Great video brough, keep it up
Incredible work. Thank you for being that kind of nerd. We need those.
Great video this! The X80 was a real kick to hear about!
the x80 bug has to be one of the funniest most absurd bugs in gaming history
You have to remember that we're still beta testing this game made by an indie developer, that doesn't have the financial capabilities to find or fix most of the bugs in their game.