Marika's STRANGE new connections to the Gloam-Eyed Queen - Elden Ring SOTE Lore Theory & Speculation
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- The Gloam-Eyed Queen is easily one of the most influential and important characters in all of Elden Ring’s lore but also one of the most elusive. An Empyrean capable of becoming a god, the same title given to Ranni, Miquella, Malenia and Marika. How could such a massive force simply fade into oblivion? Well, maybe she didn’t. In fact, maybe she became an even more influential monarch by shedding death in favor of eternal life.
You see where I’m going with this?
I think that Marika the Eternal and the Gloam-Eyed Queen were once one...
And I’ve compiled quite a bit of evidence to prove it.
I welcome you Tarnished, to join me, Zayf the Scholar, as I try to piece together the puzzle of the Gloam-Eyed Queen’s disappearance and her connection to the Shaman and Marika. Was Maliketh tied to the seduction and betrayal of the hornsent that birthed the grace of gold? Was Radagon the only aspect of Marika to be separated?
Could the Godskin Apostles help to explain Messmer and Melina's visions of fire (and the former's ties to serpents)?
The answers lie in a strange ancient cult not far from Leyndell and the Erdtree: Dominula, Windmill Village. Evidence suggests this creepy locale we all know and love is tied to Shaman Village.
Buckle up and grab your tinfoil hats, my insanity might be a bit contagious.
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*What If : The Festival is meant to end with a death... but there is no longer death, so they dance maddeningly endlessly*
now that could be possible but what if shaman village was connected-- a link between the two villages. Like the houses in both are very similar. before marika sealed away the realm of shadow.
I wonder if the "God Hunt" was Marika capturing Gods so she could put them in her children to contain them, and when she was done, she cast aside the Gloam Eyed Queen to protect herself and her children from death ultimately keeping the gods inside them imprisoned.
I don't know, a little unhinged speculation.
One thing to consider is that the GEQ could be a different person/entity and we're looking at basically a piece of Marika's plan that was casted aside once their use was done. Marika has shown to have such a mindset considering Godfrey's departure. Another thing to consider is that GEQ could be Melina. Evidence of this most surmountable within the Frenzied Flame Ending and connecting the now revealed Violet like Iris of Melina to that of the Beast Eye given by Maliketh. I can further elaborate or provide details. What's most interesting is that Melina and Messmer are also most likely connected and this would also establish the clear connection of Marika's theme abandoning children. Messmer's use was completed upon Marika achieving her Godhood and casting aside the Land of Shadow. A similar idea would explain Melina's eventual removal as well with her use done as well. Mind you the connection between Melina and Messmer is best well established by Messmer's Kindling which states, "Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." There is no other entity in the game this would have as close of a connection to than Melina. The only other entity we know of that is utilized so similar to Messmer in the sense both are used as Kindling to burn a tree. This again then goes back into Melina being Marika's daughter as referenced by her dialogue and the fact she has a butterfly (Smouldering Butterfly) which all children of Marika has (Miquella, Malenia, Melina, and Messmer). Basically, I'm not saying who you stated is far off but also to consider the facts that push that Melina is GEQ and consider that in the scope of what you've stated. Is it so far fetched that Marika would cast aside only Messmer? When Melina possibly with the power of Black Flame would most likely also be casted aside once her purpose was fulfilled in her grand scheme. I am not an advocate of such thoughts but I do want to propose the idea of GEQ being Melina. I can supply more "evidence" but mostly the Frenzied Flame ending and Beast Eye are our biggest lore facts.
this theory feels very Warhammer 40K with Big E in that setting shoving minor warp gods into specialty bodies to create demigod Primarchs, one of whom has semi split personality due to having two gods not one.
Would explain why Malenia becomes a goddess, Miquella tries to, Ranni does, and the rest focus on their own strengths. If this is true though, my boy Godrick got no gods no hows
@merleetomlin6218 she's thinking like a jar. I'll just Pickle all my problems away- Marika definitely
Collecting them inside herself more likely
This is an old write-up now, with some recent updates from the DLC.
Marika is the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen.
- There's a red and black spike of death impaling Marika and keeping her in place when we find her at the end. Only Maliketh wields this power, and only he could even defeat a God like Marika. But he's so loyal to her, why would he?
- Maliketh "defeated" the Gloam/Dusk-Eyed Queen. We know Shadowbound hounds have to attack their former master if The Fingers feel like the Empyrean is acting against them. We play through this reality with Ranni's quest, and both she and Iji know Blaidd will go mad as she enacts her vision. How do they know this happens? They saw/heard of it happening to Maliketh and Marika already.
- 7 seemingly Grace-tinged faces adorn the aprons of the Godskin Nobles. There are 7 Walking Masoleums in the game. A ghostly NPC mentions in a prayer to Queen Marika that a local one contains "your unwanted child..." within. The corpses we find within are seemingly skinned.
- Only Marika would be able to guide Ranni to the location of the Rune of Death and how to use it for it to be stolen in the first place to forge the Black Knives. Remember, "Marika... is this what it is to sin?" "Why gull me..." Marika, after all, had only one use for Maliketh in the end, after the other work was done... a vessel to seal away Destined Death. And even then, she betrayed him.
- The Beast Eye is a purple, scratched up eye. It's Marika's eye from being defeated and imprisoned by her Shadowbound. No other Queen or Empyrean is "defeated" but not slain, as the text implies there except Marika. And who but her purpose-made hound could even stop her, a God? The one entity empowered enough by the Ring/Fingers to be able to do so should the need arise.
- Dominula Village is much like the Hinterlands and the Shaman Village. We find a skinning ritual and a Godskin Apostle there in Dominula. We learn that the "festival" is old and tacitly accepted by the Golden Order. The aesthetic of these villages is much the same, and they're intimately tied to Marika herself.
- Gideon gives us a boon in the form of a secret rite known only to him, Black Flame Protection. He is alleged to have peered into the will of Queen Marika and shuddered at the end that should not be.
- The Scadutree is of a dual nature. So is Queen Marika. When Gold arose, so too was Shadow born. Gold and Shadow exist as necessary contrasts to each other, yet in a God, in Marika, this duality exists in coalesce, or it did once.
- No other characters are named as Queen or Empyrean that aren't already accounted for/ruled out to be the GEQ, and by that I mean Melina, she was given purpose by her mother at the foot of the Erdtree and that means she is a daughter of Marika, not old enough to be the GEQ but possesses traits of both Marika and Radagon. Eye color and hair color are passed down traits we see in game. Well, sure enough, Melina shows us a purple/gloamy eye in one ending. Inherited trait from her mother, the Queen in Black. Marika's eyes are never shown to us to judge their color.
- Duskborn ending sees Godwyn rise to ascendancy and sees Death restored, with him as the Prince of Death itself. These titles aren't meaningless. Duskborn? The "Prince" of Death? Well, who would the Queen be? If Godwyn is Duskborn, and if he is a Prince, his mother would, of course, be associated with "Dusk" and be a Queen. And we know his mother is Queen Marika.
- Godwyn is referred to as the "Prince of Gold" in an item description. If a Prince of Death could have been a Prince of Gold, why couldn't his mother hold this potential as well, even necessarily so? We see from the Death Knights that Gold and Death can somehow synergize even still... Gold and Shadow, born at the same time, same as it ever was.
- Fia is hooded with a black cloak and comes from some other land. She also helps create Godwyn's Duskborn ending and is Death-aligned. We see Marika wearing black hooded garb in a statue where she also is holding the twins Miquella and Malenia. Her tattered clothing as we find her at the end is also black. She is also associated with the Nox/Numen race and the Black Knife Assassins that come from there as well.
- Statues of Marika in her crucified pose all show her with a flowing black cloth that wraps behind her in almost the exact same shape as the Godslayer Greatsword, which was the weapon or ritual sword of the GEQ/DEQ. You have to pivot the camera a bit to get a good view, but the shape is very similar. Coiled and then open, with one flap slightly longer than the other, same tip design on the Godslayer Greatsword. It's possible that she was propped up by the Hornsent culture and then part of the betrayal was killing other Gods in their pantheon, but what's maybe more possible is as Centered Tarnished pointed out, that Marika culled some other of her "unwanted" children after learning the truth of the broken Fingers and flawed foundations of her Order.
- Hewg prays to Queen Marika about his given task to craft a Godslaying weapon. Very interesting and specific task. Marika wants a God slain. He mentions "the sheer terror of Her..." regarding Marika. Godskins certainly take an interest in killing a God. Who was their leader? A "defeated" Queen who was once an Empyrean. Marika.
- Raging Wolf Vargram is a would-be Shadow. Wolf imagery is on his armor. He wields the Godslayer Greatsword. The weapon art is "The Queen's Black Flame", of course. A statue of Marika exists in Farum Azula, depicting her with three wolves.
- Marika learned the secrets of the Golden Order and realized her children would "amount only to sacrifices" as she instructed them. She knew the Erdtree was a soul parasite, and by sealing Death away, she weakened the Erdtree over time. She also had Godwyn buried at the roots of it, knowing that he would grow and overtake them, choking the Erdtree further. As he was, Godwyn was an "unwanted" child since he embodied the Golden Order, and she was a prisoner to it. He would end up much like Miquella would, a caged divinity of some kind. She was likely opposed to the Erdtree and Greater Will/Fingers for a long time, weaving plots in secret until the Shattering. She realized, only too late, that ultimate power has a way of becoming a curse when the truth of the nature of it all is finally revealed.
Just as Marika shined so brightly with her Golden Order, another aspect of her was as deep as the abyss and as dark as any shadow.
Woah dude, this is incredible. Just read the whole thing. I can't find anything that seems out of place.
Great write-up, thanks for this. I've always wondered about the fingerslayer blade though and who's corpse it comes from. One of the Marika/GEQ plots against the Greater Will from before perhaps?
That wasn't Blaidd that attacked us. It was an assassin that looked like him
@@thesithofearth3617 it is blaidd, if you paid attention you're literally told blaidd is a baleful shadow which are the assassin's of the two fingers and that if ranni does anything that goes against the greater will and the fingers then blaidd is to put a stop to it by attacking ranni, much like maliketh to marika, and when you near the end of rannis questline the NPC that invades is literally named baleful shadow and looks like blaidd, it's not just some random assassin
There is also the interesting fact that Marika, being an obvious stand in for Odin would be associated with death as Odin is a god of the dead and death among his other titles.
Anyone else just consider that the gate of divinity could've been red because of it being made of FLAYED bodies?
It's made out of the body of the slain hornsent
I thought it was made of the body of shamans since they stuck together easily
They do, and we get the saints from them. The flayed hornsent were nowhere near so coherent a form as the gates, which almost looked like they were filled with bodies similar to the furnace golem
If you hit the gate with your sword still bleeds. In the trailer we see it as red, because it was activated somehow...
It isn't red anymore because it is decayed meat and blood.
Marika has a back braid in her statues.
Right braid, back braid, and cut left braid.
Same as Dominula Celebrants.
Yeah, I was pretty sure Marika had a fairly prominent back braid in every depiction of her, was really confused when he said she didn't
Ok f it, Patches was the gloam-eyed queen.
Kicked me off a cliff numerous times and I ain't died yet.
Duh, the power of death was sealed.
Nah, patches is an outer god. The most powerful outer god. That's why he's in so many fromsoft games. He's a god of chaos (not the frenzied flame type chaos), so he enjoys trolling and fun
Torrent is the gloam eyed queen at his point lmfao
@@thesithofearth3617That’s actually pretty accurate. In DS3 when he lowers the walkway on us lol
Another flower based area that sprang to mind was jarburg, which of course would relate to shaman village in other interesting ways
I’m also curious about the ruins of Unte, very similar flowers surrounding building when you move the furnace golem
The area outside Midra's Manse is also shown to be similarily covered in flowers.
Very very true
And by that it means the whole shibang is still going on, the “Poachers”
@@NorthernDruid thats cuz midra is marikas father
I realized I only visually referenced it, but it's pretty interesting that the Black Flame incantations look a lot like the marks on the finger ruins. It's also pretty interesting that the Dominula Celebrants in the yellow Erdtree capes are referred to in-game as "Gardeners" while the blue Godskin cape wearers are "harvesters" which seems to reference life and death.
isn't the general consensus that those finger print marks are simply the face of Metyr?
Many people have said that, yup! I don't think that means it can't be similar to the Gloam-Eyed Queen though? At least I can't see a reason to assume those are mutually exclusive possibilities.
Look at the Gloam Eyed Queen's Greatsword and the Carian Royal Scepter together
Wait, I never noticed there was 2 different colors for their capes and look closely at both finger ruins, one has blue specks all over it, and then the one near Shaman village has yellow/golden specks all over.
Please make video on Melina. There is zero analysis from high quality and respectable creators. She's the main character besides us who put EVERYTHING into motion and succeeded. She's archetypal "Wizard" similar to Gandalf. Manipulative and influential person guiding everything from behind. I beg you! (I also think she might be the Queen and I'd love to hear more arguments against it) I'll buy you lot of coffees I promise on my life. Thanks for everything 🥹❤️
The tail of godskin duo looks like the tail of lampreys in the finger ruins
nice catch, dude !
yes, that smooth almost oily sheen
Thats probably just because they were lazy to make a different character model😂
I thought they were just lizard men under the robes. The way they stretch etc is the same as the ones as volcano manor.
Not true lampreys have small fin and lack scales while godskn dont have fins and do have sake scales
A few other tells: the assasins of the round table hold, in particular the confessor assassin Crepus whose name derives from crepuscular: the dim hours of twilight (gloam) and dawn. The formless serpent deadly poison assassins. The scorpion rot blade and other items carried by confessor Rileigh. The shield of the guilty, and Marika's own children who were born from gloam as much as from gold. Miquella and Trina, a weaker version of their mother - Trina being sleep instead of death. The colors are deeply significant and follow the wheel: Marika by day, but at night she is GEQ. It was always there.
This is brilliant. Im SO glad this theory is finally getting the love it deserves. Some of us have been speculating this for years now!
I don't see the connection
if only we can see her eyes, and they are heterochromia, golden & gloam.
Imagine definitive evidence like this, From will never deliver.
I saw someone point out that in the story trailer, Marika is topless as though she just transformed back from Radagon. The theory was that Marika disguised as Radagon seduced and betrayed the Gloam-Eyed Queen, from which Messmer and Melina were born. Marika then raised them as her own. Makes sense to me since Messmer has red hair and his fight theme contains part of Radagon's.
A fun obvious fact that I’m surprised isn’t getting talked about enough - the shape of Marika’s rune is also the same as the shape of the light at the divine gate. It also isn’t just that, and the shape of Marika’s crucifixion - it is also the shape of sap flowing down from a wound in the tree. It’s a symbol of plenty just as much as it is a symbol of punishment. A symbol of divine ascension as much as it is a symbol of imprisonment.
It's The Rune of Life, which is her Scarseal and directly referenced as an "Elden Rune." It is literally Grace.
Radagon's lattice is also described as an Elden Rune. It's probably The Rune of Will, as Radagon is an allusion to characters representing Free Will such as Adam or Prometheus.
Underrated comment
It also looks very similar to the Sun in Dark Souls 3 after you beat 3 of the Lords of Cinder. As if the fire of the Sun were dripping down. In this case, the gate is catching whatever substance drips down from whichever celestial body it interacts with thus allowing the ascension of a god. At least that's how I see it.
im really glad elden ring content creators are finally getting around to this angle. I really think, more than any other radical re-interpretation theory, this most perfectly explains Marika's inscrutable motivations and relations with Maliketh, Melina, Dominula, snakes, etc.
The only other Empyrean shadow reflects his partner, he's granted a cold-infused sword even though he doesn't personally like the cold because Ranni is an empyrean connected to the cold dark moon. Marika's shadow is named Death of the Demigods. He's in all-black armor and wields a sword infused with Death. It just makes sense to me that he's actually the Gloam-Eyed Queen's shadow, and that she went against the intent of her Fingers, causing Maliketh to turn baleful, attack her directly, and bring her to heel. This is why Marika is so bitter towards him and why her only use of him was to seal away Death for later so it could be stolen away and used again. It just makes sense.
Similarly, this really cleans up her whole plot with Hewg about forging a weapon to kill a god (her body, which is enslaved by the Elden Beast). She's aware that "godhood is a prison" as was made explicit in the DLC, and didn't want to be a part of the system, being so prideful she thought she could forge her way into it without being obedient to outside forces. She was forced into it, though, so she had a millenias-long plot to escape.
The Melina thing is easily explained by using Millicent and her sisters as an analogy. She's a separate self, a bunshin/wakemi, an "offshoot" of Marika. A daughter but of a single parent, not even in the Marika/Radagon sense but literally just Marika.
this would imply that radagon may have been the deity to be put into marika, much like radahn was put into mohg.
Everything you said just makes so much sense. Hell, we've been searching for answers about this mysterious GEQ since Elden Ring's release and the answers have been right there in front of us the entire time. We just needed to connect the dots.
Also, at one point, the GEQ was referenced as the "queen in black" but that descriptor was removed after a patch. Marika is the only queen that wears a black and gold gown.
I would like to believe that melina is the offshoot but she has her own butterfly and she seems to have similar blessing in power as messmer. Her curse might be eternal burning as indicated by her butterfly. Another thing is malenia’s offshoot bore none of her curse of rot at all. So I would assume that offshoot children usually do not have such cursed “blessing”
@@zackaerith1872 millicent and all of her sisters were afflicted with scarlet rot though
@@mattb6616 I missed that out. Kept having the notion it’s only Millicent who have the rot. But ya, unless marika has that eternal flame curse which cause melina to inherit the same curse.
Great theory!
I also love the idea of the Gloam-eyed Queen being one of Marikas siblings - a rival empyrean as you said. People speculate Messmer & Melina are children of the GEQ and that Marika took them after defeating her early on, Just to use and discard them as needed. I do wish we got more information about Melina in the DLC 😢
imo, she was the half of marika, separated from her once she ascended as god, and who tried to stop her for the same reason st. trina wanted to kill miquella. its her mortal side, the one still connected to the shamans, the fingers, her humanity, still connected to the world pre-erdtree. some sort of fragment of herself before becoming a god.the geq realized a world without death was unnatural and tried to stop her other half marika, but eventually was defeated. my other theory is that the geq was the grandmother herself, and her prayer was more or less a prayer for forgiveness.
@@MitridatedCarbonThe "statue" of the grandmother in the Shaman village is actually her real body. If you notice, the hair is real.
@@MitridatedCarbon just like radagon
@@uncleol that's actually interesting cause it means shamans don't rot like normal people, considering her face is intact. They just petrify
@@asddsa9468 yeah I'm starting to feel Radagon emerged afterwards from Marika's desire for order. Hence him wanting to be complete and perfect.
We are in the absolute peak of Elden Ring lore rn 🔥🔥🔥
too kind my dude! and great avatar!
@ZayftheScholar Thank you! I really like smaller lore RUclipsrs like you or Kitetales. Vaati and Smough are great tho.
Yeah it's interesting that the channels I mostly listened to pre-DLC are relatively quiet while smaller ones are cooking up some good stuff or at least trying to right now.
@@Minion_5516 your avatar bro... too good lmao
Very nice choice
@@SaintJames14 I only have one small thing to say: I don't even like FF7
The Dominula villager braids are actually a perfect match for Marika's if you consider they have one short braid and one long braid like the Marika statues.
I agree with EVERYTHING in this theory.
Crunchy's last video, that came out BEFORE the DLC, touches on this theory as well, recommend the watch.
I'll have to check it out! Thanks for the rec
Dude this is an actually really plausible and interesting theory. Gives me a completely different perspective on the game.
Something interesting about the Godslayer Greatsword that nobody ever seems to mention, is the fact that it's weilded by Vargram the Raging Wolf when we invade him with Bernahl in Leyndell.
Vargram is described as being "One of the first Tarnished to arrive at the Roundtable" and his armour states that "According to the old legends, wolves are the shadows of the Empyrean. Vargram aspired to such a state himself."
The original Roundtable is in the capital right next to Marika's chambers, and his armour description tells us that he wanted to be the shadow of an Empyrean - perhaps that Empyrean was Marika herself? This does seem to make more sense than a follower of one of Marika's enemies weilding her signature sword directly under Marika's nose.
One thing to point out also, is the beast eye given by Gurranq. Everybody tends to thinks this is Melina's closed eye, as it is stated that is claw marked, and has a violet iris. However, if you see the image for the beast eye, the "claw marks" doesn't line up with hers. Another thing is that, the beast eye is a stone, and Melina is not made of stone. However, Marika's body is shown to be made of stone, and it is missing one eye. The "claw marks" on the beast eye could be the fractures on Marika's head, at the side where her eye is missing.
I like it. And so when Maliketh defeated (not killed!) Marika, in this battle he claimed her eye. And now I need to ponder on why this purple stone eye ties into Godwyn and his deathroot..
This makes the timeline and the story cinematic make much more sense! Honestly, why is the sky purple in the trailer, why is everyone skinned on the gate of divinity? The only hitch is the whole 'Maliketh defeating her' side of things, that becomes more confusing if Marika is the GEQ. Still, I think you're definitely on to something!
From someone else's comment:
"The only other Empyrean shadow reflects his partner, he's granted a cold-infused sword even though he doesn't personally like the cold because Ranni is an empyrean connected to the cold dark moon. Marika's shadow is named Death of the Demigods. He's in all-black armor and wields a sword infused with Death. It just makes sense to me that he's actually the Gloam-Eyed Queen's shadow, and that she went against the intent of her Fingers, causing Maliketh to turn baleful, attack her directly, and bring her to heel. This is why Marika is so bitter towards him and why her only use of him was to seal away Death for later so it could be stolen away and used again. It just makes sense. "
I like the "Marika was a originally a jar" theory where this is concerned. She acted as the main Numen "body" of the Jar contents we sometimes run into.
Both Radagon and GEQ were other people/beings blended in with her which she discarded as aspects of her conjoined self (like Miquella casting off St.Trina) while following the ritual for god-hood.
She achieved apotheosis and those pieces of her survived as distinct beings. Radagon longed to become one with her again, while the GEQ did not...
Uuuh, I love the last paragraph. "Radagon longed to be part of Marika but the GEQ not". Genius take.
Another interesting connection is all the stuff involving coffins. The game seems to imply that the coffins belong a numen burial practice, as the ants in the underground, who eat the bodies found interred in those coffins, drop Numen runes. And we know that Marika is at least "of the same stock" as the Numen, who are supposed "descendants of denizens of another world," implying that Marika, the shaman, at least shares a common ancestry with these Numen. Moreover, in the underground in the ancient dynasty ruins we also find images on obelisks depicting both the coffin ships we see in the cerulean cost and the practice of growing trees, further connecting the ancient dynasty and the Numen to the stone coffins which inter tainted fleshed, once intended to be burned by ghost flame. So it seems that the Numen, a people related to Marika in some respect, took part in burial practices which involved interring bodies in coffins to be burned by ghost flame before the Age of the Erdtree. Moreover, Miquella, probably very deliberately, chose to divest himself of St. Trina, the avatar of sleep, in Stone Coffin Fissure, whose lighter purple, once discarded and separated out from association with Miquella's gold, coalesces into a deeper velvet, the colour of the death which is Eternal Sleep extremely similar to the purple dusk colour otherwise associated with the Gloam-eyed Queen. This is not to mention the fact that in the game files the Putrescent Knight which guards the discarded St. Trina is called the Gloam-eyed Knight. In addition to this, the cerulean coast is one of the three locations that directly connect to a Finger Ruin, the other two being by the Shaman Village and under Manus Metyr.
It seems plausible to me that the Numen (or shamans) were also present in Cerulean Coast, and that, perhaps, the Gloameyed Queen was an Empyrean associated with the Finger Ruins in that region, if not directly an aspect of Queen Marika herself. In this case, Marika would have encountered her Fingers in the ruins by the Shaman Village and the Gloam-eyed Queen in those by the Cerulean Coast. This would also explain why there is a Gaol in the nearby Charo's Hidden Grave, if there were at one point a shaman presence in this region, albeit associated with the death practices of coffin-burial rather than the life-practices of tree-growth that we see in the Shaman Village. The two other Gaols are 1) under Belurat and 2) by the Bonny Village, which, given the presence the same Grandmother "statue" that we find in Shaman Village, is implied to have originally been a Shaman settlement as well. This original association with death and spirits might also explain not only why Messmer's army makes festive grease (the recipe is found in the Battlefield Priest's Cookbook) but also why the boats of the Tibia Mariners, otherwise associated with spirit summoning, have been repurposed in the Shadow Keep: they are vestiges of Marika's shaman-heritage's former association with death. Perhaps at one point the Shaman were both associated with Life and Death (tree-growth and coffin fire-burial) and this is why they were found to be suitable vehicles for the Hornsent rituals (which are said to take "the cycle of Life and Death in mortal hands"), and maybe Marika discarded this death-aspect of her heritage when she resolved to inaugurate an age of Eternal Life. This may have been what was symbolised by the severing of her braid.
Hello great video. I got a detail for your. There's actually a third village of Dominula ladies. It's very hidden in Mount Gelmir. Sadly, there's no woman there to welcome the Tarnished anymore, but the village still has some juicy Dominula lore bits :)
Are you refering to where Golden Vow and Anastasia Tarnished Eater are? Pretty sure there's not really any lore there.
@@quailfeather you are close. lets try with another hint: anastasia's weapon is the exact same model as the Bonny's Village Butchers
we never see marika's eyes and i bet they are each on mesmer and melina as seals.
good point! they're always covered
There are two main ways I see Marika & the GEQ's relationship going:
1: Melina is the GEQ, and she was born during the early days when Marika was working for the Hornsent. One of the things put into Marika's jar/Crucible was the power of the GEQ, which she either wielded on her own or needed a child who had that power. This also assumes that the Hornsent shoved all the other god/cursed bits they could into Marika, and that her children inheriting them is because they're emerging from within her
2: A rival Empyrean was the GEQ, and Marika had to/chose to consume the others in order to become a full God. This was part of Marika's betrayal, as they would've known one another and suffered similar tortures
Melina was born under the Erd Tree so I don't think she couldve been born before Marika became a god
The main flaw in the videos argumentation I'd like to point out, is the assumption that Marika sanctioned the current iteration of the festival at Dominula.
It's just as, if not more, likely that the current affairs there arose after the Shattering.
Interesting food for thought, I always got and made the impression that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was a rival empyrean to Marika, and perhaps someone she usurped or defended the Erdtree from.
I expect as the lore community uncovers more about the full nature of the Crucible we'll also get closer to estimating the role of the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
Are we ever told explicitly that Marika was an emperyan? It could be Marika as an emperyan was called the gloam eye queen, then once ascended rebranded.
Which would absolutely go with the story trailer, she ascends and rebrands from the gloam eye queen into Marika the eternal
"Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean. Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death.
Even then, she betrayed him."
Pretty clear cut.
What I find interesting is the androgynous nature of the grandmother who seems to have no breasts, as well as Marika in the dlc trailer.
Perhaps the shaman themselves were a race of beings that had merged male and female together into the alchemical Rebis, and thus were sought by the hornsent for this very ability.
The ability to merge the flesh (and spirit?) of two into a singular whole.
Marika had beasts. Her back was turned and you can see the swell of them from the that selective angle. It’s a trailer. They aren’t going to show her breasts even if it’s rated MA. I believe she’s without her signature tunic because it’s meant to be before she ascended.
To be fair, every female character in Elden Ring doesn't have much "personality" in the upper torso area if you know what I mean.
@@tuba3000 Elden Ring doesn't even have a single magnificent chest ahead
@@thepancakemann Exactly!
Waitttt I think you're onto something omg I never noticed these details!!!
My own theory not related to this is that our character the tarnished is a child of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and perhaps all of the headless demigods in the mausoleums are all children of GEQ as well. I mean think about it, why does Melina seek us out of all Tarnished? Why do we have the ability to slay gods and obtain their powers? We are essentially a Godskin without the whole skinning bit.
Keep em coming
I'll keep watching.
Thank you dude!
Real
Hm, the whole black flame apostles thing is killing gods and skinning them. Hornsent the people who potted up Marikas people, their entire religion was about ascending and becoming deities. If the god skins had some misplaced horns inlayed into their garbs it’s be a lot easier to piece together because other than the Hornsent who achieved deity status there really isn’t any other physical “gods” who could be skinned in Elden Ring. Maybe this could have been marikas betrayal and the god skins assisted in making the divinity gate in which they were subsequently pushed aside by marika. Not to mention it’s cute to have a simple explanation to why her first two children had visions of fire. Not to mention why Morgott and Mohgs blood have aspects of fire that don’t appear in other Omens.
Evidence to the god skins having a hand in making the divinity gate is the fact that in the original story trailer all the corpses that compose the gate were fresh and depicted completely flayed of flesh.
I think the Gloam Eyed Queen is Melina, who is the divested part of Marika. She wiped Melina's mind so that she would meet the tarnished and lead them to kill her. If we follow the Frenzied Flame ending, Marika's divested portion (Melina) would then have her memories restored, recalling that she is the GEQ and sending her after us since she was likely meant to die, sacrificing herself and killing herself to save the world, destroy death and put everything back into order from before the Greater Will came into power which would save the world from the cycle that had been put forth since the GW appeared in their world.
I'd go as far to say that Marika was always the hero of the world, destined to sacrifice herself and loved ones for the greater good of all life, leaving her friends and loved ones behind, but recognizing this was the only way she could save the world.
I think there's something that contradicts this due to the DLC, but I am also not entirely certain about it. When you kill Miquella, Trina dies. Implying even though divested, she was able to live as long as Miquella was also alive. And when he dies, so does she.
When you become the Lord of Frenzy, I think it is implied that you burn Marika to nothing along with pretty much everything nearby. This clearly let's Melina loose from... whatever it is she was restricted by, and hints that she might be the GEQ, but it suggests to me that Melina is not a divested part of Marika as she would die when Marika does. And yet, she is still there.
Now, maybe Marika hasn't been killed in that ending, it isn't exactly clear, but it definitely seems like it as she crumbles to nothing before the entire tree and sky lights up in flame. I think Melina is simply Marika's daughter as is suggested by some of the text related to Messmer having a sister with visions of flame.
I also think even attempting to call Marika a hero, let alone THE hero of the world is pretty far off. There's a lot of grey morality in this game, but Marika shows herself to be a selfish, genocidal tyrant. She has a sympathetic backstory, but that doesn't really square with the rest of her entire life of conquering, subjugating, and destroying anything that didn't fit into her idea of order.
I think it is probably true that Marika is the one guiding you by grace, and not the greater will, but I don't see that as some grand plan to remove the Greater Will. The Greater Will has already left the lands between as made clear by the lore behind Metyr. It strikes me more that she is hoping you kill her as an act of suicide on her part because after all of her efforts to right the atrocities she faced at the hands of the Hornsent, it was all for naught. Her age of plenty faded, and when Godwyn was killed, she shattered the ring in grief. I think even the way you phrased it proves her lack of heroism, "destined to sacrifice herself and loved ones for the greater good of all life" -- sacrificing someone else is not an act of heroism. It is an act of a psychopath.
I think the game actually gives us a reason why Malekith defeats the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Iji says this about Blaidd: "The Two Fingers gave Blaidd to Lady Ranni, as a faithful follower. Her very shadow, incapable of treachery. But if Lady Ranni, as an Empyrean, resists being an instrument of the Two Fingers, the shadow will go mad, transforming from a follower into a horrid curse."
It's hard to describe Malekith as anything but mad, especially when you're talking to him as Gurranq. Gurranq's dialogue lacks the eloquence that Blaidd's has, suggesting that Malekith has been driven mad. This madness might have been triggered because the Empyrean he shadows resisted being an instrument of the Two Fingers at some point in the past.
Maybe Marika, acting as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, resisted the Two Fingers' influence, which drove Malekith to violence. Perhaps the harboring of the Rune of Death was the will of the Two Fingers, not uniquely Marika's decision.
I swear Miyazaki saw Midsommar in the summer of 2019 and was immediately inspired to come up with the Dominula lore and still had time to get it into the game. The floral motif, the "festival" with dark undertones, the emphasis on femininity and the creepy dancing really remind me of things in that movie - not to mention all of the sinister stuff that takes place.
Oh, hey Zayf
I hope things are well and that you continue to enjoy what you do :)
"Honey, knock out the kids and sweep the booze bottles off the table, Zayf put out a new video!"
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it makes sense since melina likely seems inherited the gloam eyed queen from her mother. as the gloam eyed queen apparently represents the rune of death a crucial part of the elden ring thus the world cycle. and messmers similarity with aposles also tells a lot. all children of marika inherits some type of godly curse or blessings. i believe outer gods also have big part in this but marika's past is also seems like showing it's signs or omens in her descendants. shedding your unwanted parts might be harder than she thinks just as hard as or impossible to separate rune of death from the elden ring thus world. rule of causality and you can't have the cake and also eat it i suppose. i would connect melina and messmers curses to outer gods too but this reveal changed that.
Amazing video. I think i’m convinced this makes the most sense. I also think this solves the mystery of a theory i’ve had about Melina, which is that absolutely no one but Marika knew about Melina’s existence so that Melina could be Marika’s ultimate trump card.
i think the corpse that created the Fingerslayer blade is Melina’s body. If Marika was in fact the GEQ, as i’m now convinced of, this would make a lot of sense. I think Maliketh was only able to defeat Marika as the GEQ because she had already born Melina in secret and sealed half her power within Melina’s eye, causing her spirit to be separated from her body. She then uses the corpse to craft the fingerslayer blade and gives it to the Nox. She tells them essentially “if Maliketh defeats me, go kill Metyr with this.” The Nox only succeed in wounding Metyr. The Greater Will sends the Astels to destroy the Nox’s eternal cities in retribution.
See, i think Melina was Marika’s hidden ace in the hole. Burning the Erdtree is a crucial element to Ranni’s ending - which i believe is what Marika ultimately wanted as it’s almost certain Marika helped Ranni with her plot. But importantly, Melina is also Marika’s agent of vengeance if things go wrong, as we see in the Frenzy Flame ending
Brilliant.
Literally the first time I’ve heard this brought up and I think you nailed it. Everything fits. The shed skin, the festival… even going a bit deeper how it parallels with Miquella shedding St Trina .
Id like to note that the description of the golden braid, a new tailsman, states “A braid of hair, cut loose. Queen Marikas offering to the grandmother- What was her prayer? Her confession? There is no one left answer, and Marika never returned home again” I’d like to believe that Marikas wish was to separate from the gloam eyed queen, and her confession being that the gloam eyed queen is part of her own flesh.
I think the connection you've made is really good, and I think that a large missing piece of evidence you've neglected looking at hair which can tie this all together is looking at the Lamenter and its connection to all this. The Lamenter is found in a Gaol with other jar people, and a part of its fight involves summoning multiple versions of itself, which is all evidence tying it into the idea that it might be a product of Hornsent being placed in these jars. Using the mask erupts you in black-white fire, much like what you see with use of the Horned Bairn, and attacks from certain Curseblades. The Lamenter is also said to be "blissful" in a twisted sense, much like the celebrants of the Festival
Best theory I've seen about the GEQ so far was that when Marika called the crusade on the Lands of the Tower, she sent Messmer and his army to kill the hornsent and Melina and the Godskin to slay their deities and armed her with the Rune of Death to do so, but when Melina was done she got chosen by her own fingers to be a potential deity herself, so Marika had Maliketh kill her and seal the Rune of Death.
Love it!! This potentially fills in a lot of holes that lorehunters have been scouring for for years now.
Some questions I'd love to ponder after this: Does this jive with the "The Gloam-eyed Queen is the God that abandoned the Ancient Dragons" theory? Probably not considering the timeline - but who says one or the other is absolute.
I personally adore this theory. It's one very strong explanation as to why Marika likely had not one, but two children who bore visions of flame - one of them being possessed of an Abyssal Serpent.
While the Godskin Apostles have what appear to be Crucible-esque characteristics, upon closer inspection, most of their animal features are only that of a serpent. Skinny-boy's stretching attack, Big-Boy's serpent tail, etc. Not to mention the Big-boy guarding the shed skin (corpse?) of Eiglay the serpent.
I think you're onto something in that Melina and Messmer both may have been elements Marika needed to discard to ascend to Godhood, much like Miquella did. Melina herself didn't seem to have any knowledge of why she existed - as if she just woke up at the foot of the Erdtree one day...
Super interesting stuff - thanks for the video!
I'm still in the camp of 'it's Melina'. I think it makes sense she's her second-born, and first child to come with to the land of the erdtree.
She got the Rune of Death because it's Marika's most loathed part of the Elden Ring. She saw the death all around her and I think her motivation for eliminating death is actually about preventing the shamans from dying, giving her unlimited time to find a cure.
Melina could be created with this purpose, so she could be a part cast away from Marika. She implied to Boc that she wasn't born of a mother.
I think Melina, as the demigod of death, decided that the erdtree interfered with the cycle of life and death, tried to burn it, and failed at the end by Maliketh's hand. This line of thinking also fits in with the goal of the catacombs, and Melina's most heartfelt monologue (at the three fingers)
But I think this is a very important lens to view Marika through: despite being a god, she was never potent enough to save those dear to her. Shamans, Messmer with his affliction, Melina and her betrayal, the twins being omens, Godwyn's death, her lineage with Radagon fathering three healthy but rebellious children (I blame Iji, who has the white godslaying flame, and was I think one of the GEQ's followers), with this same man she failed to conceive healthy children again, Radagon stopped her from destroying her ties (sealed her after destroying the elden ring), and now she tricked the fingers into resurrecting Godfrey to defeat the Elden Beast and the supposed influence of the greater will, which you stopped at the doorstep.
With all her failures come also a lot of change of plans. The castle couldn't protect the shamans, separating the land of shadow couldn't stop those within from dying, burning the scadutree didn't work (without the Fell God's influence until you bring Messmer's kindling), separating the rune of death didn't work (the GEQ could use it in this period), and sealing it did work but it didn't solve the problem of curing the shamans so she needed more power, thus came the plan to undo her from the Greater Will's influence and gain enough power to finally accomplish what she sought to accomplish.
The windmill village could be one of the few remaining proofs of existence of Melina. The Marika I described is sentimental so I can imagine it. My Marika is based on the Tarnished Archaeologist's Marika, who takes a lot of motifs and culture from her old Shaman village. He also proposed that the erdtree had already been burned down, and this fits with Melina doing this since her body is burned away.
In my timeline, Melina was an adult when Godwyn was a child, and she died between the birth of the omen twins and the carian lineage. Then Iji would have joined Radagon on his fight with Caria, then stayed with them as he married Rennala. He told the kids about a time without the erdtree, and Rykard and Ranni took the bait. Radahn was too fond of Messmer and the golden order. With Melina being the GEQ, it also makes sense that Ranni knows torrent, and knew to find you in Limgrave. Iji and Melina could have still been in contact. It's obvious from the Morgoth fight that you're not the only one who she appears to.
I think I like the idea of them being related more than being the same person. Specifically, they could have been twins. Malenia and Miquela are twins and have traits that represent opposite aspects (abundance and decay, represented by eternal youth and scarlet rot), so it would make sense for Marika to have an equal and opposite that represents death. The fiery traits of Melina and Messmer could be attributed to them being born carrying traits from their bloodline that skipped Marika, but not their aunt.
They probably started out as allies, before they reached the end of their journey, where only one of them could ascend to godhood.
Given that the Godskin greatsword has a spiral appearance, and we know the Hornsent like spirals, I can see the GEQ working together with the Hornsent.
I’m so glad to see this theory coming to light more. I’ve thought for a while that Marika was the Gloam-Eyed Queen before she was Queen Marika the Eternal. In the various lore subreddits, however, this is not a welcome theory.
As random as this may be, I find it interesting that besides the Gloam Eyed Queen, Demi-humans are the only other characters that have been addressed with this Title.
Not only that but in various cases, especially when found under ground, the Demi- human Queen's eyes glow purple.
On a side note, I find it amusing that the only Demi-human Queen found in the SOTE is hidden away in the cerulean coast bearing the name Queen Marigga.
All of this isn't to say that the Gloam Eyed Queen was a Demi-human. I just found these observations to be interesting.
What a timely video. I was just defending Melina's status as the kindling maiden online.
Honestly this is the best articulation of this theory I've heard so far. Great stuff.
Great Connection with the Fires Deadly Sin spell!!! Definitely never made that connection but I think ur on to something there 💯🔥
Interesting also how the Black flame monk chestpiece is the only armor that describes a seduction, in reference to the God-Slaying black flame.
Another interesting layer is Radagon's involvement and purpose as a character in the lore. Bear with me here as these thoughts aren't quite fully formed, but what always perplexed me is the Knights of the Cuckoo and why they're called as such. Elden Ring has many instances where there are characters and relationships that are part-analogous to others elsewhere or for lack of a better term, mirror each other. "Cuckoo" always struck a chord with me as the naming for these Knights, as Cuckoo's are parasites, birds that would infiltrate the nests of other birds lay their eggs inside and have those birds raise their offspring, which to me, was mighty similar to what Radagon did to Renalla. Perhaps the Cuckoo Knights were aptly named, secretly employed by Radagon to finish off what he began, destroying Caria from within' after he was prematurely called back to the Capitol to become Elden Lord? With that in mind, was this the first time Radagon was employed in this regard? Could he have been sent to seduce other enemies in Marika's midst and bare children that would then go back to be reabsorbed into Marika's court? Are Messmer and Melina children of the GEQ and Radagon, only to have the GEQ betrayed and defeated/murdered and her children stolen to be raised under the Erdtree?
I always thought so; it is why Maliketh couldn't figure out how he betrayed her ... as Gloam-Eyed Queen she went against the Greater Will which made Maliketh turn on her ... just like Blaidd is turning as Ranni is killing her fingers while we are killing Astel.
Ranni kills her fingers with her 'real doll'. That is what makes the crater. This is why the doll we put the ring on is so different, then it goes away, then the 'safe doll' is here to communicate with us.
Her main puppet is far away from Miquella and his influence.
I also believe Marika is possibly the Snow-Witch that taught Ranni and Ranni is quietly finishing Marika's plans. Not that Marika's soul is gone, she is Melina, intentionally having her memories kept from her, but why she seems to 'channel' Marika when speaking her words and can control the runes, teleport us, cast the erdtree healing spell ... and has the gloam eye; the one Maliketh doesn't give us.
She orchestrated Godwyn's death because he chose to be the prince of death and cooperated with his inner-outer-god.
We still don't know who Miquella's inner-outer-god was.
Remember, there is thousands of years of stuff going on and history to be mixed up.
We have the burned Marika statues on the path to Leyndell.
I don’t know if this is exactly what Miyazaki imagined, but damn it’s good. Maybe better than anything he imagined himself. Loved it!
If this theory holds up then the connection Marika has with the Fell God and by extension the serpent god is now concrete proof, I also noticed when you look at the way the arms look at the divine gate you can see that most of them also look like the arms found in the Blade of Blasphemy and all over Rykard's/Serpent's corpse, and it's also this that now shows how the Fell God and the fingers might have come into contact with one another. All that is needed is the connection between the Elden Beast and the dragons in Farum Azula to the Fell God and the GEQ as the Godskin twins are there and after we rekindle the flame of the Giants we are then transported to Farum Azula so there must be a connection there.
marika being the gloameyed queen can explain the serpant that was found in the bonny vilage
the godskin apostle emblem on the robe looks like a massive fingerprint
I think most people agree melina is the queen and now we know she is messmers sister which makes sense as both were born with a special kind of flame seen as a threat to the erdtree. So my guess is either melina was a threat or threatened the erdtree and was taken out but like the giants god was able to stay alive, hidden till the opportunity to take down the order which is when the tarnished shows up and is chosen by torrent (could also be working with miquella)
After the Mother of Fingers could no longer receive signals from the Greater Will, she gradually descended into madness. According to the description of the Fingerprint Stone Shield and the Gazing Finger, the persistent slamming of the finger led to the very seeds from which Frenzy first sprouted. However, that is another story.
Following their mother’s descent into madness, the Fingers plotted a rebellion, leading to Maliketh’s betrayal and a scenario similar to the one between Ranni and Blaidd. Imagine if Blaidd had successfully hunted down Ranni and sealed her power, turning her into a true slave. Ranni would undoubtedly collapse and give rise to another persona. Similarly, if the same situation had occurred with Marika, the personality of the Gloam-Eyed Queen would dissipate, giving way to the Eternal Queen Marika.
Dissolving a personality entirely is extremely difficult. First, the flames and the power of the serpent that were split off led to the births of Messmer and Melina. Later, Marika calling upon Numen members, used the Fingerslayer Blade to harm the Mother of Fingers, causing a malfunction. The Fingers then rose up in rebellion and incited the Black Blades, defeating her and sealing the Death Rune.
In the DLC trailer, we see Marika extracting the golden threads from the Relic of the Godskin Apostle. After raising the threads and using Radagon and Marika’s lord and empyrean rights to qualify for crossing the Divine Gate, golden birth occurs, and death is utterly sealed.
Isn't Jar-Burg also a village with a lot of flowers as well? Maybe younger and so lets plentiful, but the flowers are a main aspect of Jar-Burg
Also the cerulean coast and Charos hidden grave are covered in flowers albeit all one color but still. I get the grease connection but not the flowers one.
@@Eric-cj8sb It still works. Jarburg is literally a reference to the Bonny Village and what happened to the Shamans. Only its twisted into a positive light in Marika's Age. The Cerulean coast and Charos Grave just have one color flower and are not really a comparison point to the multicolored flower areas being presented.
It's mentioned that Enir-Ilim was a tower built "to reach the gods". You know who would want to reach the gods? Someone intending to go on a god hunt.
We see the divine gate at the pinnacle of Enir-Ilim in the story trailer, constructed of viscera, blood, and corpses. A closer look at the tower in-game reveals that the entire structure was constructed in very much the same way. Imagine it back then. A towering structure tall enough to be seen from every corner of the lands between, glistening with blood, gore, and corpses. A tower of death. Building a structure like that, in that fashion, would require supernatural powers and perhaps control over death itself. The only person I can think of who would be capable of this is an entity who had control over the Elden Ring BEFORE Marika. The Gloam-Eyed Queen.
Marika eventually ordered Messmer to purge the hornsent, and the land mass at the center of the lands between was magically veiled and separated from the physical plane. Marika so thoroughly erased the history of the hornsent and the shadow lands that no one even remembers they ever existed in the first place. Completely purged from history as punishment for what they did to the Shaman. What if this is exactly how the hornsent felt about the GEQ. The hornsent worship the crucible, the embodiment of life itself, blended together in all its forms. Their jarsaint rituals were in imitation of the crucible, a blending of life. The GEQ seems like the exact opposite of what the hornsent worship about the crucible. Now imagine how they would feel if their dead were used as sacrifices to build a massive tower to invade the realm of the gods, perhaps the very domain of the crucible itself, and hunt them down. I think something so blasphemous would make them want to purge her existence from history and repurpose her tower as a holy structure linked to the crucible. I think perhaps her godskin children would be chased from that land, carrying with them the only relics that prove she ever existed at all.
Messmer is red of hair, and his music/theme shares a leitmotif with Radagon's theme. I believe "the seduction and betrayal" referenced in the trailer was Marika taking on the form of Radagon to seduce the GEQ. The GEQ would go on to bear two children, one inheriting the aspects of the base serpent, and the other, her blackflame of destined death. I believe after they were born, when the time was right, Marika used Maliketh (who likely got his name "death of the gods" from joining the GEQ's godhunts) to betray her, slaying the GEQ and then laying claim to the Elden Ring before the divine gate, entryway to the realm of the gods, to become a god herself. She then plucked out the eyes of Melina and Messmer and sealed them with her grace, such that the aspects of the GEQ, the base serpent and blackflame, could never be used against her. Radagon is the father. And as you know, Radagon is Marika.
I would think that the Dominula Village events are something that occured post shattering. The idea that the GEQ was marika could still stand but given that she rpesumably cast off the GEQ persona it may be that the Godskins were also against the 'new' Marika.
This might fit a general storyline where Marika became the GEQ through the Hornsent and then sided with the great serpent to defeat them. That leads to the God Devouring Serpent, whose description seems highly related to the GEQ's Godslaying Fire. The similarity between Mesmer and the Godskins might also imply a very close relationship between Marika and the God Devouring Serpent, resulting in Mesmer and possibly Melina's births (through... magical shenanigans). Marika then discarding her alliance with the serpent post revenge and all of that part of her past to become the Golden Queen would fit this timeline.
There's also a suggestion to be had in symbolism of Serpents, maidens and forbidden knowledge. Maybe Markia encountered the God Devouring Serpent and it was that encounter that put her on the path to destroying the Hornsent and leading to this current timeline.
Very insightful. Ancestral woods has some similarities with dominula, the animals are peacefulbatound them, they use bone weapons rather then forged, they have rats chilling with them , the revere buds and flowers, and they both have areas near them sinking or under water. Dominula is like a more modern version of the same culture, and its a culture older then the erdtree that has to do with rituals, festivals and the stars.
The jar shamans have white hair. The black knives have white hair…. Omg
Dominula Celebrants have white hair..
The Black Knives have no heads at all
@@quailfeather look at the official art that plays at the beginning of the game
@@TigerGemini98 interesting
I followed a similar idea, not that Marika IS the gloom eyed queen, but possibly her consort; Hence the betrayal. I believe there’s a connection between the hornsent collecting the flesh of shamans, with the godskins collecting the flesh of gods.
Idk if its just my poor eyesight - but to back up your point about the statues of Marika in the Land of Shadow, it appears to have both braids still intact, and could definitely therefore be depicting a much younger Marika
I don't think Marika is the GEQ, but I do think she is the GEQ's mother. And the reason is because I think a lot of the mysteries around Marika can be explained by the hornsent jar rituals. If Melina truly is Marika's daughter and the GEQ, then it stands to reason that each of her kids with unusual characteristics were created as a manifestation of some element that would've been created in the Jar that created her.
Mohg and Morgott's cursed state can be explained by the hornsent curse, and their natural ties to the crucible oriented ritual itself.
Rykard and Messmer's affinity for snakes, explained by the snake near bonny village.
Malenia's scarlet rot can be explained by the church of the bud, assuming some infected individual were unknowingly included.
Godrick's obsession with grafting can be explained as a manifestation of the jar ritual itself, and his seeking to replicate it to create a more perfect version of himself only to result in a horrific amalgamated version.
The formless mother itself and it's affinity for Mohg and Morgott has so many ways it can be tied to the jar ritual, given at some point Marika would've had no recognizable form and filled the empty bloody and shapelessness of the interior of her jar, paired with the motherly attributes of a woman who sees the truth of her existence and those she's tasked with imposing order on by the hornsent within the jar...
Radagon's red hair can literally be the result of a fire giant be included in the mix, which has implications regarding the repeating theme of flames due to their ties to the fell god and its flame.
Melina's existence as the GEQ and her association with flame could be the result of a death bird or even a death rite bird, since they heavily rely on it, paired with the influence of the rune of death within the elden ring itself upon her ascension.
Messmer's flame can be related to radagon's and if he predates radagon as one of her first kids, it could easily explain why Radagon and his flavor text associating him with the fire giants doesn't use flame at all: because she'd divested herself from it.
Miquella's eternal youth can be explained as a manifestation of some poor child included in the ritual, destined to never grow old in it's functional immortality.
This all aligns way too neatly to be mere coincidence.
Edit: I forgot Miquella! How could I forget him?
My theory is that GEQ was the snake goddess of the Hornsent during the first age and Plasidusax was the consort. After Pl was wounded Merika stepped in as a consort in the form of Radagon. Radagon and the GEQ got Messmer and Melina as their children. Melina betrayed the GEQ and stole her grace (trailer scene Marika stealing from snake) to become the god instead and abducted the (her) children (abductor virgins). Etc. I didn't go into detail but most of your observations also make sense in the scope of my theories.
One thing that may absolutely be wrong, but I think the face of the mother of the fingers really looks like the gloamed eyed queen symbol when casting her spells
It would make sense that Marika is the GEQ. Gloam refers to time of dusk, shadow or night. Maybe she was the shadow lands “queen” and had to become the Marika we know today in order to reach and destroy the Elden Ring.
The shadowlands exalted her for what she did there (hence her statues poses) and the lands between punished her because she broke the status quo (her crucified pose)
Also, I’m sure someone pointed out - the lands between are above the shadowlands but below what?
I think you're right. The background circular symbols on Marika's statue look like an infinity symbol, but now I think it might be a reference to the ouroboros or a snake eating its own tail. That ties so much together!
good point id been wondering what that swirl behind her on every statue was, i knew it had to be significant
I think a possibility is that the Gloam Eye Queen is Marika's mother. Marika and Radagon children of the Gloam Eye Queen. Marika was seduced by Metyr (Gnostic demiurge) and betrayed her Mother by fusing with Radagon and using the Gate of Divinity.
Marika and Radagon are Gnostic Eve and Adam. Shaman Village is Garden of Eden, the Tree is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The statue in the tree is the original sin, forbidden arts of souls transfer. Same arts we see with the Nox. But, that magic is the "forbidden fruit" to be like the Gods and live forever.
Really enjoyed your theory!
marika herself also heavily cursed by outer gods probably because of the GEQ's god hunting deeds. her curses can be seen in her offsprings. trying to getting rid of her geq part seems failed miserably too since GEQ also inherited by melina.
Marika being the GEQ would mirror Miquellas shedding himself in the DLC though
It’d be kinda cool if the grandmother was the GEQ and marika told that shrine/statue that she killed her
I saw another video that was intriguing.
Marika has 2 sets of twins children with Mohg/Morgott and Miquella/Malenia. Twinship (if that’s a word) usually comes from the Maternal side.
That being said it’s entirely possible that Marika and the Gloam-Eyed Queen were twins.
The best theory is still that Melina is the Gloam-eyed Queen but it’s possible she inherited that power from her “Aunt” so to speak.
There’s also some connection with the GEQ and the Serpent, like we see in the Church of Eiglay. Maybe that explains the he snake skin by Marika’s hometown?
Perhaps she birthed Messmer there, shedding her snake aspect to him.
Being a shaman she had all the aspects to shed. Omen, Rot, etc. Her shedding and birthing of Messmer and Melina were the first steps in committing her great sins.
One child burning down the order of one world and the other to burn down the next.
Could work but the gloam eyed queen trained ranni who is the daughter of renalla and radagon(marika). Where is if Marika would of cast out the gloam eyed queen for the golden order and hence being also radagon the time lines wouldn't match for her to be also the gloam eyed queen. Also she'd make a whole duality against herself which just seems a little off for her character. Great video tho!!
Radagon is the duality against herself. Perhaps that is why she trained Ranni in the first place, to get rid of the Greater Will. But when it backfired, Radagon, the Greater Will, Maliketh etc imprisoned her
also the gloam eyed queen was not really motherly. the virgin abductors are inspired on her, and what the lore on the items suggest is that she kidnaped children, cradled them in the white skin cloth to apostles and then became nobles. that's why there's a noble defending a amniotic sac in mt gleimir.
This
Aren't the virgin abductors inspired by Tanith?
@@catharsix no, the abductors literally swaddle you, and it have snakes too
@@catharsixprobably not Tanith specifically but rather the masks of the kind she and other nobility wear. The theory is she's from the Land of Shadows because she's a dancer (reference Castanets Patches gives you) and that place has warriors that use dance for combat and ritualistic practices.
Maybe there’s a link between Dominula windmill village and being able to summon Millicent here, since she’s possibly Marika’s or the Gloam Eyed Queen’s granddaughter
Midras Manse and the Temple of the Bud with Romina are also flower heavy. I think the flower thing is less of a connection to each other and more an indicator of something else. Life? Divinity?
What a bombshell. I think you’re onto something. I never even knew that spell from Dominula existed. I wonder if there are any other links regarding the Blessed bone shards? Also how close is Bonny Village to Dominula on the overlaid map?
6:18 jarburg
Another place with a floral theme is Jarburg, which I find interesting with the Shaman connection to jars
The GEC as a facet of Marika is something I considered before the DLC, and now we know about jar saints, I think it is a very strong hypothesis. Thanks for laying it all out, I knew there was deeper connections to the shaman village somewhere and stupid me forgot about Dominula
My headcanon is that Marika as Radagon did THIS twice - the second time openly with Rennala. It was a war, and she needed to resolve it somehow. Maybe she already had some practice and that's why it was so easy for her with Rennala + maybe Miquella's charm didn't come from nowhere, maybe it only reached perfection with him. BUT the first time was secret, with the Gloam-Eyed Queen. And Marika is a "mother" to Melina and Messmer, because they both only know her. Because when the Gloam-Eyed Queen did "her job" - maybe even right after Melina was born, she was no longer "needed" in this way because Marika or her fingers may have wanted to put Golden Order's plan into motion. Marika was ready and since she lulled Gloam-Eyed Queen's vigilance, she got rid of her because then she needed something else from her - Rune of Death. And with Maliketh's help got rid of the problem, gaining what she wanted. Maybe it doesn't make sense, but that's in my head.
A great video and theory!
Finally someone is addressing this.
Dominula is the first place that came to my mind when I visited Bonney and Shaman village.
The gloam-eyed queen being originally a part of Marika would also be similar to how Miquela discarded his "love" (St. Trina).
Damn, this tied with the thoughts surrounding the gloam eyed queen being the corpse snake thing in the teaser trailer for the DLC fit really well together. I'm leaning with this one more than the other one now as it has more in-game lore connections, but this is sweet.
4:28 It sounds wrong that Marika would do that.
I think it is more likely that Maliketh was acting on orders from Radagon instead of Marika , Radagon wanted to mend the Elden Ring while Marika wanted to destroy the elden ring , therefore kill the Elden Beast ,a God , a godslayer's greatsword was more than capable of doing so.
Maliketh stopped Marika from killing the Elden beast and Radagon succeeded in starting his golden order.
And most likely it was then when the Rune of Death was confined and the Gloam eyed queen , was defeated and "made" into the Rune of Death , just like Godwyn was by Fia into the Mending Rune of the Duskborn.
Of course this is my speculation for that part
Now this is a very interesting possibility as well! We really need to talk more about Radagon's role in all of this. He is literally titled "Of the Golden Order" and Marika's incantation from the DLC specifically says that its an incantation of Kindness WITHOUT Order. And like you said, Radagon literally tries to uphold the Order while Marika tries to tear it down.
It does make me wonder if a lot of the stuff attributed to Marika was actually Radagon's doing. Afterall, almost every bit of info we get about Marika from the base game revolves around her either plotting to have a God Killed, telling her kids they will be sacrifices, sending tarnished away to get stronger and then come back, and literally shattering the ring.
Marika's Pose is literally crucified on Radagon's Golden Order Totality Pose. Perhaps Radagon is true "villain" in this story.
That's right! In St.Trina's own words to the Tarnished , "Godhood would be Miquella's prison. A caged divinity is beyond saving"
I think that Marika was essentially caged in her own body, maybe that's why in a desperate attempt to be free of radagon she shattered the Elden Ring even if it meant to be her downfall.Perhaps that's why St.Trina came to that conclusion about Miquella aswell.
As far as the floral themes go, there's one more location that might actually help tie the two together, Jarburg. Given its mostly utility flowers the player can actually harvest, but they're there because the jars cultivated them. They're even searching for their potentate, assumedly like the ones roaming Bonny Village.
Great video, but I can’t help but imagine the celebrants of windmill village skinning people for the sake of the Godskin. There is a Godskin apostle standing atop their town, looking down upon them all, but the strange festival details and designs choices seems to evoke something deeper, like you say in your video.
There is so much subtext that links Marika to the the GEQ.
Marika wants hewg to make a God-Slaying weapon for the purpose of helping the Tarnished kill Radagon.
She is literally leading a god hunt againts herself.
I always thought the snakeskin in Bonny Village to be a remnant of a recent visit by Messmer. The snake needed to molt as he visited the place of his mother's suffering, and her rise to sainthood.
New revalations have struck me. Mesmer looks like a Godskin, the Godskins ties you've pointed out already, and the biggest point. The dead god in the trailer for the DLC. I just learned that Runes can only be created by death. Merika was using Godskins to kill gods, collect their runes or arcs, to create her own at the Gate. The trailer shows her with multiple strands at the gate, and I always wondered why she pulled out like 5 or 6 strands from that body. But had a fistful when she "ascended to Godhood".
you argumented for this theory much better than centered tarnished, I think this holds a bigger impact on the theory much more than a damn shed skin on a village pointing at a shed.
Dominula is clearly a reference to shaman village, and that makes it telling that the flaying of skin was indeed something tied to the culture there. Now we may never know what the hell is going on with that little bit of skin, but the strands of gold marika pulls out are clear. We've seen MIquella try to shed and accept all the sins of the erdtree by doing very similar things to what marika did to ascend, Perhaps even divesting herself of a part of her. Radagon clearly came after the whole fact and became a devout follower of the golden order. Marika guides us the whole game through the guidance of grace. The roundtable hold is clearly her inside world or something near to a pocket dimension of the erdtree. I think when godlike beings such as marika appear in stories I enjoy the most when we see them in some shape or form, perhaps not to tell how all the pieces fall into place as that doesnt incentive discussion, but I'm quite fond with how ff14 handled that kind of myth and fable eventually turning into a figure.
Okay yeah you cooked here brother, I buy this theory almost entirely. I have been wracking my brain for two months trying to figure out The Seduction. Excellent stuff.
The story trailer for the DLC mentions a betrayal when it shows Marika at the divine gate and Maliketh's remembrance says that she betrayed him in regards to destined death. Also, the purpose of the godskins was to hunt gods like the Tarnished and if we assume that the noble and the apostle we fight are always the same guys then they're also coming back to life like the Tarnished (this assumption is based on the boss name "Godskin Duo" which means it's only two and there are never two apostles and two nobles in the same room).
To me when "Merika's hand" reaches into a bag of sorts, and you see what is obviously a dead or recently inanimate skull, and she takes out not their "hair" but the strands (golden) that connect all things together. The strands connect the physical to the metaphysical, the soul to the body and therefore the body in whole to whatever "after life" is canon.
In a book from the 90's, steven king's 'insomnia'... there are bald creatures that use strange sheers that CUT the STRANDS that connect people to the afterlife. Removing these strands makes you "permanently" die, your soul is then untethered to the "after life" and your soul can then be consumed/used by the evil/antagonist.
I think, since JRR Martin is an author, this is where they got the idea of "pulling the strands" from the that bag, she takes a dying, unconscious or dead gods strands connecting it to all so that she may FORCE herself to connect to all using those strands. Those strands are what connect her to everything... the strands of death and life, that her servant provided her when he "defeated" the gloam eyed queen. A queen who's eye(s) are that of "twilight".... she was the bridge of living towards death, hence her weapons.
That, is what I immediately thought of.
Also... I find it a neat and small easter egg to the "gloom" armor of Demons Souls. Yurt the silent chief... who wore the gloom armor, Remember, the gloom knight who served "death" in Demons souls? His point was to betray all and send them to death. Gloam comes before gloom, Twilight before complete darkness (being unattached from the afterlife).
Just my opinion.
Remember what we call "easter eggs" are flattery, and MIMICRY is the greatest form of flattery. And mimics come from Dark Souls I... and Dark souls I, is an homage and spiritual successor to DEMON'S SOULS.
What bothers me the most, is that I finished my last and most recent playthru as the choas ending... frenzied flame... where Melina says she'll hunt you FOREVER to give you "destined death".
Welll.... is there ANOTHER DLC? Because she sure didn't come for me (yet), and my character sure isn't dead. Is there to be a Elden Ring 2? My hope is that elden ring 2 is actually Demon's souls prequel.... the events of elden ring, cause the darkness that comes from DISTANT lands, that destroys the pilar in demon's souls.... there's a WHOLE lot of "giants" in elden ring, and the "giants pillar" was the one destroyed prior to us playing Demon's Souls that we could NEVER access, which in game files, sure looks a lot like zamor... frozen wasteland, crumpled cathedrals and castles and large, long, lanky beasts/humans.... hmmmmmmmmmmmm
The divine beast hunt, being a hunt of the gods of the hornsent.. and it just so happens that we already learned of another God hunt, under the disciples of the gloat eyed queen.. isn’t it interesting we never see Queen Marika’s eyes