+Nigel Mac Been there, done that. Early this year I did my first spin in a while, didn't hold enough back pressure, spiral. The one time i've been genuinely scared in a plane: speed just under the red line, 4 gees pulling out. Yikes!
+Teikowouf Really? I find that weird.... Maybe I can see it that if your taught how to do it, you do it for practice and then the pilots get over confident. Interesting study
PARE is pronounced the same as "pair" not "par." Additionally, the elevator action is a bit more nuanced than described. It is: Power - Off; Ailerons - Neutral; Rudder - Full Opposite (and held until spinning stops); Elevator - Neutral, where "neutral" is a direction, not an exact location. This covers upright and inverted spin cases. In the overwhelming majority of cases, however, the spins are upright. So "neutral" will be forward movement of the stick/yoke. How far? However far it takes to finish off the rotation. In the best case scenario, it may only require relaxing some back pressure; in the worst case, it could require forceful and full forward elevator. And the amount could vary even in the same airplane under different spin conditions. The elevator action in PARE is performed immediately after the Rudder action (i.e., full opposite and held) has been completed. When the spin is over, Rudder - Neutral; Elevator - Easy pull to straight and level (no more than you might apply for a steep turn). Also, while intentional spins are NEVER approved when in the Normal category, spins are not always approved in the Utility category! In the Utility category, manufactures have the option to conduct spin testing as if Normal category, or as if Acrobatic category. Some airplanes are Spins Prohibited in the Utility category, while others are Spins Approved. Follow manufacturer info and placards in this regard.
Just noodling around on RUclips and found this. I'm glad Rich chimed in right away. I really worry about video of this caliber; i.e. that fails to communicate complete and authentic information about important flying topics. I'm sure what I am saying here has probably been addressed by other respondents over these last three years, but here are a few things that pop into my cranium. First, the association of spin entry with a turning stall is not really good information for someone who is learning about spins from this video. We can do coordinated turning stalls all day long without spinning, and spin easily from straight ahead stalls as well as in other situations. Second, neither of these depicted events looked like spins to me. Instead they looked like the things most of us flight instructors did to earn our spin endorsement. That is to say, these appear to be incipient spins with a recovery from a spiral dive. The fact that the narrator is reflecting on G-forces is further evidence that the recovery was from a high speed condition, which by definition, is not a spin. It was only when I began to train flight instructors that I really understood why the late (and great) pilot examiner Dutch Zwiefel used to stop me in the hall and growl; "What's your airspeed in a spin?". He asked this question because he knew that most of us had never actually participated in a developed spin, where airspeed would be, by definition, somewhere between stall speed and zero. So, when I went up with my CFI students over Canyon Lake, we entered the spin, then held the pro-spin inputs. Wow, what a revelation that was!. The old C-152 sloshed around - woosh, woosh, woosh: What's our airspeed, Victor?" Indeed the airspeed indicator was also sloshing around, oscillating somewhere slightly below stall speed. Then, after a few turns, when we applied the recovery inputs, They all made sense. Power was already at idle, then ailerons neutral and opposite rudder. Rotation stopped, elevator forward enough to break the stall, then recover with nose up and added power. And airspeed never strayed out of the green ark. In fact, my recollection is that airspeed was around 65KIAS; no drama, no G-forces, no stress. A low energy recovery from a low energy manuever. Years later when I conducted private pilot practical tests, I noticed a regular anomaly when asking about spin recovery. I would say that more than half of the applicants in a certain region failed to tell me about forward movement of the elevator. One day I asked the applicant to reconcile what he was telling me with what the POH said about spin recovery. He said; "Oh, yeah but you won't really need any forward elevator because you are already pointed straight down." I had one guy say; "No, you have to pull back because you're going to fast!" Well, they are right when recovering from the spiral dive (not a spin) that occurs naturally after an incipient spin entry with no pro-spin control inputs held. I am sure the reason that so many private pilot applicants omitted the {Forward Elevator Sufficient to Break the Stall} control input, was because their instructors had never actually recovered from a spin. They had done what I did during my CFI training; a spin entry and recovery from a high energy spiral dive (which is not a spin). So we really need to take care to make sure that we have authentic and complete knowledge of a subject prior to teaching others. Aviation education is generational, and the sins of the father are handed down to the offspring. Meaning, if our flight instructor does not know the complete truth about a topic or maneuver, then we will learn wrong stuff. And when we become flight instructors, we will probably teach that wrong stuff to our students as well. The process is even more dramatic with internet based training systems. So I urge anyone who is posting instructional video to make sure that their content is complete, correct, and does not inadvertently mis-educate those who absorb its content. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard, otherwise we actually lower the standard of knowledge in the aviation community. And no offense meant to M-Zero A. I know these folks are working hard to publish good products for consumption by budding aviators.
Chas987107 Damn! Thanks for taking the time to write this :) It makes sense after you get level and yaw back to 0... then you’re left with the relative wind hitting the bottom of the wing and belly. From the wings perspective it would be in a very high angle of attack and stalled. So you need pitch the nose down to get the wing creating lift again and the air speed up above stall before you calmly pull her back to level flight. I hope I’m tracking what you are saying:)
@@SVArca735 well said thank you for the comment. Doing my spin training tomorrow. Ill be wt aching that airspeed to see if we are actually in a developed spin!
I flew my first spin 12 hours into my PPL training. 50+ spins later and it has become just another maneuver I fly. I did my PPL old school, including a tail wheel endorsement and aerobatics.
@@marlomarteja3007 I did climb/descend/straight level in my second class. third class I did turns. fourth was stall. I finished spin at about 8 hours now I'm doing circuits
Spin training was required back when I got my Private Pliot's License in 1974. Got my ATP in a Lear Jet model 25. Lear jets have great performance on one engine so the single engine approach to a missed approach was easy. Rate of climb was a little under 2,000 feet per minute on a single engine.
I'm still a student pilot and have solo'd and entering the latter part of my training. My CFI is a spin instructor as well. It didn't take much to convince him to incorporate spins and nasty stalls in my training! The above is not a spin per what I've learned. its an incipient spin. NOW in Jason's defense you would want to correct a real life unintentional spin in that stage before it fully developed! The spins I'm learning we have at least 1 full rotation and often 3 rotations before breaking the spin. This is highly valuable! the more you spin the faster it gets and more disorienting it becomes. I strongly recommend you experience that so you know how your body will react! AS A PPL STUDENT with only 25hrs I have told my instructor that I want to do LOTS and LOTS of stalls and spins, not because I have a death wish or am seeking thrills! Because I have a family and children! I want to not just know what to do I want to be programmed to react in the dangerous situations saving precious seconds and perhaps altitude! Fellow students, it is absolutely worth (and I believe should be mandatory) becoming proficient in these! I know many of you will simply just remain in coordinated flight (which I agree with) but stuff happens and when it does I want to be able to react!!!
As stated below, spins are mandatory training for the PPL checkride in Canada. I still remember the day when my instructor told me we were going up to practice spins. I probably had 20 hours. When I figured he was not joking I said: Are you crazy? I still remember my first spin. A valuable technique I would recommend learning. --> Make sure your bird W&B is in the "utility category"; and do it with a CFI.
It is mandatory training but not a PPL checkride item... Also need to make sure your plane is actually certified to do spins, as some are not (i.e. Piper P28s)
Ian Marks You are correct, but that is the point of spin recovery training at a beginner level - to stop an incipient spin from becoming a full spin and losing massive altitude
I agree with many of the comments about the spin, or lack thereof. Those were not spins, but a pro spin input and perhaps a bit of an incipient spin, but most certainly not a developed spin. Recovery using the PARE is appropriate for developed spins, using appropriate unusual attitude recovery procedures is otherwise recommended . Using "push, power, rudder, roll, climb" is the preferred unusual attitude recovery.
Good gawd...I did that as a kid when I got my ppl, required in those days, My CFI's dad was founder and CEO of Swiss Air, back in them days, kids...you knew how to "handle" your aircraft, simple fun stuff Thanks Mike!! (hey, 37 yrs ago, and still rockin!)
@Colin Skinner Agreed - I started flying while in high school, '79, FBO/instructor was an AF pilot. He introduced me to spins at about 10 or 12 hours of flight time, and was insistent on 2+ turn proficiency. I practiced them nearly every time I went up, solo or dual. Didn't take very long and it wasn't any different from correcting a skidding car in the winter. One of my best friends is a retired airline captain, check pilot with 28K hours in his career, have spent many hours listening to him tell about ATPs who struggle with basic maneuvers, emergency and otherwise. Enough to make me believe that drifting away the basics isn't necessarily a good thing.
Thanks for the video, you made it look SO easy. I went up for the first time in over a year today (I finished my training and chickened out when it came time for the test). I asked the old man (I call him that cause he runs the school and has been an instructor for like 45 or 50 years) about stalls on the briefing. I said that no one had ever mentioned it, or demonstrated it, or anything. Well about 35 mins in, he says, "We're not gonna do a spin, but I'm going to start one and you need to fix it before it becomes a spin." We're already in slow flight at stall speed, and as SOON as I said "OK", he stood on the rudder and we nosed over. It scared me so bad, I recovered before I had time to think (Thanks FSx). The plane didn't get to spin and the old man was happy.
Your check pilot examiner is SO VERY RIGHT. If you want to be a safe pilot in any aircraft, you need to know the correct procedure for spin recovery. There are so many situations where one can get into trouble, and wind up in a spin. You must know the Principals of Flight formula ie., CL HALFE ROW V SQUARED S. and how to understand it and make it work. retired CPL with greay hair and years of working knowledge with spinning.
As a sailplane pilot I have never checked out in a two place sailplane without demoing a spin recovery. The Schweitzer 2-32 was the only one that made me uncomfortable but I think I impressed the guy giving my check ride by recovering in about a third of a turn. My instructor in power planes (prior to becoming a sailplane pilot) was an old timer who taught during the Civilian Pilot Training Program during WWII and he did not teach landings until after showing you a spin or two. Not kidding. As an instructor he didn't talk much but somehow you got the point of what he was showing you.
They aren't fully developed spins, but that is not the point. You can see the spin rotation by looking at the horizon. This is about spin recovery, not flight testing the envelope for the aircraft, which would be pretty "iffy" for fully developed spins with no quick-release drag chute and a parachute in this type. Many certificated aircraft cannot be recovered once in a fully developed spin. Read Rich Stowell's book on Spin Awareness. The idea is to recognize and get out of the spin a quickly as possible. Good opening about getting the aircraft into utility category weight and balance before trying this. No one in the back seat, no baggage, no full fuel.
With me it was spin training both left hand and right BEFORE being allowed solo. It was great fun. Later once solo in the GF we used to spin away an hour or two, easy; just for the hell of it. Any spin less than three full turns was sissy. We spun both Cessna and Piper too to get the feeling of spinning overwing and underwing, two seater and four seater. With load and without.
I remember back in my 1st week of private pilot training with my CFI Mike. I was learning power on stalls and I almost went into a spin by not immediately pushing left rudder when the stall broke. Mike and I had previously talked about spins, but as you said, it was not required in my training at that point. He was a really cool young CFI and showed me a few lessons later because I was curious. We went over, power idle, neutral ailerons, full opposite rudder(than turn coordinator is showing), pitch down - to break the spin then recover. It’s really easy, and even on my 1st few tries, I could do it without losing over 500 feet altitude. However, I could very easily see if a spin happened while you were not expecting and specifically set up for recovery; it would be very jarring and scary. You probably would lose 1000 feet before even realizing what was going on. Then, without being specifically prepared, you could lose several thousand more before remembering what was going on, how to recover, then finally recovering.
Most of us know the spin recovery procedure but the first and most important thing is CLOSE the throttle ...power off, a few have brought the farm through trying to recover with power on ....as we are not home on the couch but bricking it in an unusual attitude with the houses getting bigger , people panic under pressure . This guy is very relaxed ,a great place to be.
+Hot n Salty I accidentally got into a spin, and there is a panic because it's all very confusing and initially it hurts. Was glad my instructor did many spins with me. I think it's extremely important to experience them and learn them with a CFI.
During my lessons in a 152 my CFI had me stall and spin almost every lesson. It became so routine that recovery was automatic, even boring. I felt relaxed and confident in my abilities to recover if needed. I also did a lot of pre-stall training to avoid getting into a spin in the first place. I was surprised to learn that stall and spin practice is rare these days, we did it every lesson. We also did engine failure drills every lesson.
My instructor once told me: the spin is impressive and but not very dangerous, but the spiral are unimpressive, but very dangerous. During my training, we practiced spin and we were supposed to perform a 2 turns' spin.
My vote is to do spin training. I did that with my CFI, and on flight simulator so it became a known process. Even when I got my Instrument training, we did it under the hood. Gives you a level of confidence to handle those situations.
Wow! really surprises me that spin training is not required until CFI in America, especially when one of the biggest killers in GA is stalling on the base to final turn, which a lot of the time develops into an unrecoverable spin. I'm a PPL student in the U.K with only 15hours and we have spent at least 4--5 hours so far practicing spin recovery, power on stall to spins etc, and more importantly how to recognise an impending stall/spin. Glad to see in the comments that a lot of CFI's in America do train their students on spin recovery even though it is not required. Safe flying everyone.
Great video Jason. I am not certain if it is mentioned below, but we are required to demonstrate Spin recovery here in Canada before we can be cleared to solo. It is not tested on the Private check ride, but it is on the Commercial check ride. I love them, and it is a great skill to learn. Cheers.
+Henry Dupuis That is very interesting. I got the JAR-PPL in the UK and not only is spin training not required, it is not offered or recommended. As I was told, "if you never let a stall develop, you will not enter the spin." We did however, do spiral dive recovery which is completely different. I also visited the USA and was surprised to be turned down by several CFIs when I told them I would like to go up for spin recovery. Now, from Jason's video, I can understand why they were reticent to try.
As a past flight instructor, I am amazed that some countries do not make full spin training mandatory. The way I look at it, you should never feel uncomfortable in an aircraft no matter what attitude you are in. Look, there are two things you need in aviation 1) distance between you and the ground and 2) an aircraft that does not break apart. All PPL training should include stalls, incipient spins, full spins, all power off and then progress to power on. Of course this based on the aircraft's approvals.
Shortly after starting stalls probably 5th or 6th hour, my instructor who was current on spins ensured he did spins with me. It was a blast. I was doing Part 141 and I think it was in the syllabus to do at that time anyway. It saved my life later on a solos practicing high altitude maneuvers, and could at anytime should I ever get in to a spin for whatever reason. They're fun to practice, they suck to accidentally get into, so it's best to practice first and know how to recover. I think all student pilots should go through spin recovery procedures at least with their instructor, maybe not for exam purposes. Spins can suck and not all aircraft are certified for spins.
Great Video, !!! brings back memories as well. I was taught spin recovery by my MCFII for my private. It was a great learning experience and gave me much more confidence as well, would like to see the cockpit view of the video I think it might help even more to see what your actually doing and what it looks like from our point of view as well
When I was doing my glider training years ago my instructor did some spins with me. Then when I was doing my solo I practiced some stalls and spins before coming back. He asked me what I worked on and I told him, "Stalls and spins!" That's when I found out spins were a NO NO!
Hi Jason, thank you for all the videos. I like to request to post a video where we can see the outside view as well as inside the cabin as how to manage Yoke, Power, and Rudder from the beginning of the spin till full recovery. Thank you.
In a climbing turn you're actually constantly rolling to the OUTSIDE of the turn to maintain a certain attitude to the horizon. So the outside wing has a higher angle of attack - it should stall first. Result: Over-the-top spin Opposite is true of a descending turn. You must constantly bank INTO the turn to follow the spiral -> low wing has higher angle of attack -> low wing stalls first.
Good video, thanks for posting. The only request I would make is to add a recovery with a cockpit view so we can see what you're doing as you're doing it. The outside view looks awesome, but I feel like I could learn better by actually seeing you do the maneuver.
As mentioned in other comments, the recovery is the thing. However, a properly rigged C-172 has a restricted deflection of the elevator that precludes a full stall. This is a certification compliance. Which leads to a problem with multi-turn spins. The aircraft will be accelerating and be in a high speed spiral versus an actual stable spin. This is a far more perilous condition as it appears to be a spin to the uninitiated and they will find themselves at a much higher speed exiting the maneuver than they planned. A major university used to have two,”Spin Ships,” in their fleet. This restricted the abuse of the classic gyros to just the two aircraft and, unbeknownst to most, maintenance tweaked the up stops of the elevator to give a slightly better stall which led to fewer over speeds of the airframes. Fully aerobatic aircraft rarely have restricted control movement and hence are IMO, better spin trainers. Aerobatics are great things to learn. They remove the term,”Unusual attitude,” from the pilot’s experience.
Although required for American CFI training, it should be required for at least Comm certs. Canadians get to rock it during primary, and we should too. I know, if we don't stall we can't spin and there are many opinions stacked against demonstrating the maneuver. Either way, it should be included in primary training. #Aviation #Spins
Great video Jason, thanks! Request for your next spin video: also play out the spin entry entirely on each camera in sequence instead of cutting between cameras so that we can experience the entirety from multiple angles. You have fantastic angles with all of those cameras!
Spinning is pretty safe as long as you have altitude. You should not be scared of spins. Learning to recovery is one of the most important things you can be good at, not getting in one in the first place is the most important.
Scary fact is most pilots who have spun in during an approach will tell you they didn't realize they were stalled until it was too late. Unfortunately, most stalls which has resulted in a spin happen close to the ground not at seven thousand feet. That being said it is of greater importance to have the knowledge of not unintentionally entering into this situation to begin with
One of the first things my flight school taught was spins - in a Piper Tomahawk, which will not pull out of a spin unless it is all done in the correct order - at the time I thought it was standard flight training.
Thanks for your video really enjoyed it it is hard to believe that spins I'm not a requirement before solo, I'm learning to fly gliders and I had to show I could do spins and recovery before they let me solo, I have flown a powered plane twice both times were when I was a teenager I can't afford to learn power so I have joined my local gliding club it's great I'm in Australia where are you I would like to check if it is the same requirements here I think spins need to be part of training, other wise people will die in crashes.
I think VR is a great way to learn spins, no risk of losing a wing, well a real wing anyway. You don't get the G forces but you will learn the visual ques and the muscle memory to react instantly. I would suggest the free "DCS World" flying the training P-51. It is very easy to spin and can be hard to recover. If you don't have a VR headset then you could use freetrack, facetracknoir, or trackir for head tracking, although for a lesser effect.
In Australia to obtain a PPL it is a requirement the all pilots are proficient at spin/stall recovery (assuming an appropriate aircraft available). The most likely time a pilot is likely to enter an incipient spin accidentally is when going solo for the first time or early in their career, particularly when flying low and slow, as in the circuit pattern. Proper spin/stall identification and recovery is essential for survival. After being deemed proficient we are encouraged to practice them during subsequent solo flights. Failing spin/stall recoveries will prevent a pilot being deemed proficient for their licence test. Spins and stalls are not difficult, but they are the cause of many GA and LSA fatalities due to incorrect identification and recovery techniques. I would suggest that if you flying school is NOT teaching spin/stall recoveries then they are failing their duty of care to their students. It is essential these techniques are taught if we want to improve the GA and LSA flight safety records.
You have to know how to enter and recover a spin for CPL here in Aus. It's not on their check sheet but no approved testing officer will sign you off until you show you can.
PPL since 1970, never did a spin, but just bought a supercub and instructor is going to teach spins and recoveries. He uses the P.A.R.E. method also. He calls it "PAIR" not "PAR"
Did that many years ago in a 172, it did not recover immediately. The right spin entry was more abrupt than usual. It took 1.5 full revolutions, full sustained opposite rudder and full forward elevator, before it recovered, C of G was within limits. Turns out that three of the engine mounts after an engine overhaul were installed backwards, only the upper left mount was correctly installed. The student was a bit concerned, I was quite upset. A lot of good was accomplished from the investigation of the incident. So, if your aircraft has just had an engine replaced, check the engine mounts??? Remember shit happens, be safe, have fun! This was the only time in over 50 years of flying professionally, I experienced a preventable technical failure, that could have had a serious outcome.
Last week N727RP, a twin engine turbo, went in close to my house. Someone got a cell phone video of it headed straight down and in a slow spin. All 5 people on board were killed. To my knowledge there's been no official release as to the cause of this accident however it looks like the spin stall. He was probably around 500' AGL flying slow, elevated angle of attack and a luggage for 5, and three ppl. in the back causing the CG to move aft.
Do spins well before CPL licensing, unless you’re training in an aircraft not certified for spin recovery like a Cirrus. Pulling the CAPS is not really practical everyday training lol
i find it crazy that this isn't required when you're doing your ppl. Do they not believe that this shit can happen to a ppl pilot? In any case, I'm happy my instructor did it with me, they're actually quite fun to do.
Interesting video. Even though you are banked to the right, the incipient spin rolls to the left. Why is that? Is it because the right turn is not coordinated (see instruments at 4:06), so you are slipping right and the left wing stalls first? Anyway, what happens (right bank/turn, left spin) is contrary to what I've seen in several other spin videos. Can you comment? Thanks, -Hugh
+Hugh Secker-Walker What Jason has done is has stalled, encouraging a wing to drop by the use of the uncoordinated controls. The wing drop is typically contrary to the bank angle. The incipient spin is simply a follow-on condition of the dropped-wing stall.
As a student in the late eighties didn't know spins were not requested for ppl. Did as I was told, Loved it. YES the 172 you have to " work " to put it into a spin. 👍
I haven't found any videos actually duplicating a base to final turn both right and left skidding turns, the scenario where most people get into trouble when they have overshot that turn to final.
Opposite rudder, but how do you know which way your spinning? How would you know which is opposite? I was watching the turn coordinator but it didn’t seem to have one side indicated vs. the other. Do I look at the turn coordinator and do the opposite of “step on the ball”? Thanks.
Very well made video showing proper recovery techniques, but that wasn't really a spin. It looked like barely half of a rotation which is really just the incipient stage of a spin. To your credit, that is really all most people need to learn to recover from. A 172 with that loading is a pretty sluggish spinner too. Try it with a 150 or Citabria and they can actually be a lot of fun. Your video has motivated me to edit and upload some of the spins I did in my 150 Aerobat last spring.
Nice lesson, pilots always learning. But one question: seems that you dont push elevator down as you said. Push hard elevator down could not get planes in the spin that we want to avoid? Maybe it's not to force so much...the plane recover itself from the spin if we dont push so hard on the controls...just the pedals need to make some work...I dont know, just want to clarify this. Notheless, thanks for this amazing channel and the good lessons in it!
+Henrique It would be good to get Jason's input. But I am thinking since he is in a relatively steep dive, releasing back pressure is all that was required of the elevator controls, until flying airspeed was regained.
Mr. Schappert, have you flown Pipers much? I am currently flying a Piper Warrior, and the stall behaviors (as you may know) are quite different than those of a 172, for example. I was just curious, if you had flown Pipers much, whether the spin process, behavior, and recovery is similar in a Piper Warrior to that of a 172! Thanks so much!
I have a working theory here on spins and the endorsement, why is it even still required any more. With the introduction of the new ACS for the PPL, CPL, and now the coveted ATP. Under the new ACS Training curriculum, power on/off stall training is only taken to the sounding of the stall warning horn on steady; which as we all know is approximately 5-10 Knots above stall speed before recovery is made. In this flight attitude yaw will not have a chance to be introduced in my opinion; all of the aggravated conditions will not develop unless the CLEAN BREAK STALL is entered. The incipient spin cannot be entered from an imminent stall in my opinion; which is what the new ACS teaches. Therefore, the student cannot enter the spin unless they introduce top rudder in the direction they wish to spin on purpose. So, that being said the CFI spin endorsement is no longer needed since the student cannot enter a fully developed stall/spin from a imminent stall. This is just one CPL’s opinion and not that of the FAA. Maybe some CFI’s and even Jason himself can comment on this thread and provide some more insight.
Maybe I missed something. You were in a right turn yet you spun left rotation. Did you actually add left rudder to get the spin going? Thanks for what you are doing for all of us all the best neal
Hi Alex! You want to push the yoke forward (past neutral) to break the stall. This may require you to push it as far as you can depending on the severity of the spin. Thanks for watching! Please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com if you have any additional questions. Fly safe!
We use to do them back in the 1980 set power 1500 rpm pull nose up till stall them full left or Wright rudder u would get 3 half rotations then opposite rudder when stop rotating pull out before u reach VNE we wold also pump left an Wright rudder pedals so wing tips didn’t go back into stall 1976 model 150s this was from 4000 feet good times
Ok so I know flight sims can be completely different and as a student pilot I do not know much. The only way I can get a F-35 out of a spin, which quickly turns into a flat spin with the maneuvers in the video, is to power back, rudder with the spin, turn into the spin, elevator down a little once a turn is established add power back in, neutralize. Why is this? Is it because it is a flight sim, jet powered, different airfoil, all of the above? Or am I just doing everything wrong?
In Canada spins are a requirement, you do them for PPL training, and they are a flight test item for CPL. I think it's great training. (Fun too)
+Nigel Mac Canada!
+Nigel Mac Been there, done that.
Early this year I did my first spin in a while, didn't hold enough back pressure, spiral. The one time i've been genuinely scared in a plane: speed just under the red line, 4 gees pulling out. Yikes!
Canada will soon be removing it from the syllabus from what I've heard too.
I disagree with that decision - but I'm just a drop in a bucket.
+Teikowouf Really? I find that weird.... Maybe I can see it that if your taught how to do it, you do it for practice and then the pilots get over confident. Interesting study
+caraboose We're all just drops in the bucket. I disagree too, I'm glad that I was taught in my PPL, I'm sure it will pay off some day.
PARE is pronounced the same as "pair" not "par." Additionally, the elevator action is a bit more nuanced than described. It is: Power - Off; Ailerons - Neutral; Rudder - Full Opposite (and held until spinning stops); Elevator - Neutral, where "neutral" is a direction, not an exact location. This covers upright and inverted spin cases. In the overwhelming majority of cases, however, the spins are upright. So "neutral" will be forward movement of the stick/yoke. How far? However far it takes to finish off the rotation. In the best case scenario, it may only require relaxing some back pressure; in the worst case, it could require forceful and full forward elevator. And the amount could vary even in the same airplane under different spin conditions. The elevator action in PARE is performed immediately after the Rudder action (i.e., full opposite and held) has been completed.
When the spin is over, Rudder - Neutral; Elevator - Easy pull to straight and level (no more than you might apply for a steep turn).
Also, while intentional spins are NEVER approved when in the Normal category, spins are not always approved in the Utility category! In the Utility category, manufactures have the option to conduct spin testing as if Normal category, or as if Acrobatic category. Some airplanes are Spins Prohibited in the Utility category, while others are Spins Approved. Follow manufacturer info and placards in this regard.
wow what an underrated comment... it's literally the guy who invented PARE
Just noodling around on RUclips and found this. I'm glad Rich chimed in right away. I really worry about video of this caliber; i.e. that fails to communicate complete and authentic information about important flying topics. I'm sure what I am saying here has probably been addressed by other respondents over these last three years, but here are a few things that pop into my cranium. First, the association of spin entry with a turning stall is not really good information for someone who is learning about spins from this video. We can do coordinated turning stalls all day long without spinning, and spin easily from straight ahead stalls as well as in other situations. Second, neither of these depicted events looked like spins to me. Instead they looked like the things most of us flight instructors did to earn our spin endorsement. That is to say, these appear to be incipient spins with a recovery from a spiral dive. The fact that the narrator is reflecting on G-forces is further evidence that the recovery was from a high speed condition, which by definition, is not a spin.
It was only when I began to train flight instructors that I really understood why the late (and great) pilot examiner Dutch Zwiefel used to stop me in the hall and growl; "What's your airspeed in a spin?". He asked this question because he knew that most of us had never actually participated in a developed spin, where airspeed would be, by definition, somewhere between stall speed and zero. So, when I went up with my CFI students over Canyon Lake, we entered the spin, then held the pro-spin inputs. Wow, what a revelation that was!. The old C-152 sloshed around - woosh, woosh, woosh: What's our airspeed, Victor?" Indeed the airspeed indicator was also sloshing around, oscillating somewhere slightly below stall speed. Then, after a few turns, when we applied the recovery inputs, They all made sense. Power was already at idle, then ailerons neutral and opposite rudder. Rotation stopped, elevator forward enough to break the stall, then recover with nose up and added power. And airspeed never strayed out of the green ark. In fact, my recollection is that airspeed was around 65KIAS; no drama, no G-forces, no stress. A low energy recovery from a low energy manuever.
Years later when I conducted private pilot practical tests, I noticed a regular anomaly when asking about spin recovery. I would say that more than half of the applicants in a certain region failed to tell me about forward movement of the elevator. One day I asked the applicant to reconcile what he was telling me with what the POH said about spin recovery. He said; "Oh, yeah but you won't really need any forward elevator because you are already pointed straight down." I had one guy say; "No, you have to pull back because you're going to fast!" Well, they are right when recovering from the spiral dive (not a spin) that occurs naturally after an incipient spin entry with no pro-spin control inputs held. I am sure the reason that so many private pilot applicants omitted the {Forward Elevator Sufficient to Break the Stall} control input, was because their instructors had never actually recovered from a spin. They had done what I did during my CFI training; a spin entry and recovery from a high energy spiral dive (which is not a spin).
So we really need to take care to make sure that we have authentic and complete knowledge of a subject prior to teaching others. Aviation education is generational, and the sins of the father are handed down to the offspring. Meaning, if our flight instructor does not know the complete truth about a topic or maneuver, then we will learn wrong stuff. And when we become flight instructors, we will probably teach that wrong stuff to our students as well. The process is even more dramatic with internet based training systems. So I urge anyone who is posting instructional video to make sure that their content is complete, correct, and does not inadvertently mis-educate those who absorb its content. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard, otherwise we actually lower the standard of knowledge in the aviation community. And no offense meant to M-Zero A. I know these folks are working hard to publish good products for consumption by budding aviators.
Chas987107 Damn! Thanks for taking the time to write this :) It makes sense after you get level and yaw back to 0... then you’re left with the relative wind hitting the bottom of the wing and belly. From the wings perspective it would be in a very high angle of attack and stalled. So you need pitch the nose down to get the wing creating lift again and the air speed up above stall before you calmly pull her back to level flight. I hope I’m tracking what you are saying:)
Rich Stowell Thank you sir for providing your knowledge to us viewers:)
@@SVArca735 well said thank you for the comment. Doing my spin training tomorrow. Ill be wt aching that airspeed to see if we are actually in a developed spin!
I've had my license just over 30 years and I enjoy watching your videos because I learn or relearn things I may have forgot. Thanks
I flew my first spin 12 hours into my PPL training. 50+ spins later and it has become just another maneuver I fly. I did my PPL old school, including a tail wheel endorsement and aerobatics.
did my first stall yesterday at 3.5 hours. next Monday I'll do my first spin. I'm freaking out
@@michaelz5633 wow thats very fast. Im at 3.2 hrs and Im just learning straight and level flight. lol next class will be climbs and descends.
@@marlomarteja3007 I did climb/descend/straight level in my second class. third class I did turns. fourth was stall. I finished spin at about 8 hours now I'm doing circuits
👍
awesome, love to hear that
Spin training was required back when I got my Private Pliot's License in 1974. Got my ATP in a Lear Jet model 25. Lear jets have great performance on one engine so the single engine approach to a missed approach was easy. Rate of climb was a little under 2,000 feet per minute on a single engine.
I'm still a student pilot and have solo'd and entering the latter part of my training. My CFI is a spin instructor as well. It didn't take much to convince him to incorporate spins and nasty stalls in my training! The above is not a spin per what I've learned. its an incipient spin. NOW in Jason's defense you would want to correct a real life unintentional spin in that stage before it fully developed! The spins I'm learning we have at least 1 full rotation and often 3 rotations before breaking the spin. This is highly valuable! the more you spin the faster it gets and more disorienting it becomes. I strongly recommend you experience that so you know how your body will react! AS A PPL STUDENT with only 25hrs I have told my instructor that I want to do LOTS and LOTS of stalls and spins, not because I have a death wish or am seeking thrills! Because I have a family and children! I want to not just know what to do I want to be programmed to react in the dangerous situations saving precious seconds and perhaps altitude! Fellow students, it is absolutely worth (and I believe should be mandatory) becoming proficient in these! I know many of you will simply just remain in coordinated flight (which I agree with) but stuff happens and when it does I want to be able to react!!!
Parachute Medical ~ Well said!! 👍👍👍👍
As stated below, spins are mandatory training for the PPL checkride in Canada. I still remember the day when my instructor told me we were going up to practice spins. I probably had 20 hours. When I figured he was not joking I said: Are you crazy? I still remember my first spin. A valuable technique I would recommend learning. --> Make sure your bird W&B is in the "utility category"; and do it with a CFI.
It is mandatory training but not a PPL checkride item... Also need to make sure your plane is actually certified to do spins, as some are not (i.e. Piper P28s)
Spins are fun when you are doing them for training. I still remember when my instructor did one to show me and WOW!!! Thanks for this awesome video!
MzeroA's video's are a very valuable source for students. Thanks for posting them.
You can't HELP but absolutely ENJOY Jason's vids and learn so much. They're concise and FUN to watch.
Kids, these are not spins but incipient spins or simply spin entries.
+Ian Marks Really though, there's nothing like spinning a 172 from 6000' to 3000' Love it!
+Nigel Mac Also, aerobatic pilots will instruct you to complete all spins in a climb, not in straight and level flight.
+Ian Marks I agree, he never entered a spin. Not even half a revolution.
crikey mate thats nuts!!!!
Ian Marks You are correct, but that is the point of spin recovery training at a beginner level - to stop an incipient spin from becoming a full spin and losing massive altitude
Great job. Props for continuing to explain during the spin.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
I agree with many of the comments about the spin, or lack thereof. Those were not spins, but a pro spin input and perhaps a bit of an incipient spin, but most certainly not a developed spin. Recovery using the PARE is appropriate for developed spins, using appropriate unusual attitude recovery procedures is otherwise recommended . Using "push, power, rudder, roll, climb" is the preferred unusual attitude recovery.
Good gawd...I did that as a kid when I got my ppl, required in those days, My CFI's dad was founder and CEO of Swiss Air, back in them days, kids...you knew how to "handle" your aircraft, simple fun stuff Thanks Mike!! (hey, 37 yrs ago, and still rockin!)
@Colin Skinner Agreed - I started flying while in high school, '79, FBO/instructor was an AF pilot. He introduced me to spins at about 10 or 12 hours of flight time, and was insistent on 2+ turn proficiency. I practiced them nearly every time I went up, solo or dual. Didn't take very long and it wasn't any different from correcting a skidding car in the winter. One of my best friends is a retired airline captain, check pilot with 28K hours in his career, have spent many hours listening to him tell about ATPs who struggle with basic maneuvers, emergency and otherwise. Enough to make me believe that drifting away the basics isn't necessarily a good thing.
Thanks for the video, you made it look SO easy. I went up for the first time in over a year today (I finished my training and chickened out when it came time for the test). I asked the old man (I call him that cause he runs the school and has been an instructor for like 45 or 50 years) about stalls on the briefing. I said that no one had ever mentioned it, or demonstrated it, or anything. Well about 35 mins in, he says, "We're not gonna do a spin, but I'm going to start one and you need to fix it before it becomes a spin." We're already in slow flight at stall speed, and as SOON as I said "OK", he stood on the rudder and we nosed over. It scared me so bad, I recovered before I had time to think (Thanks FSx). The plane didn't get to spin and the old man was happy.
Your check pilot examiner is SO VERY RIGHT. If you want to be a safe pilot in any aircraft, you need to know the correct procedure for spin recovery. There are so many situations where one can get into trouble, and wind up in a spin. You must know the Principals of Flight formula ie., CL HALFE ROW V SQUARED S. and how to understand it and make it work. retired CPL with greay hair and years of working knowledge with spinning.
As a sailplane pilot I have never checked out in a two place sailplane without demoing a spin recovery. The Schweitzer 2-32 was the only one that made me uncomfortable but I think I impressed the guy giving my check ride by recovering in about a third of a turn. My instructor in power planes (prior to becoming a sailplane pilot) was an old timer who taught during the Civilian Pilot Training Program during WWII and he did not teach landings until after showing you a spin or two. Not kidding. As an instructor he didn't talk much but somehow you got the point of what he was showing you.
They aren't fully developed spins, but that is not the point. You can see the spin rotation by looking at the horizon. This is about spin recovery, not flight testing the envelope for the aircraft, which would be pretty "iffy" for fully developed spins with no quick-release drag chute and a parachute in this type. Many certificated aircraft cannot be recovered once in a fully developed spin. Read Rich Stowell's book on Spin Awareness. The idea is to recognize and get out of the spin a quickly as possible. Good opening about getting the aircraft into utility category weight and balance before trying this. No one in the back seat, no baggage, no full fuel.
Great video. I remember learning to stall and spin in a Cessna 150 many years ago. My instructor didn't shout as much as you do!!
With me it was spin training both left hand and right BEFORE being allowed solo. It was great fun. Later once solo in the GF we used to spin away an hour or two, easy; just for the hell of it. Any spin less than three full turns was sissy. We spun both Cessna and Piper too to get the feeling of spinning overwing and underwing, two seater and four seater. With load and without.
I remember back in my 1st week of private pilot training with my CFI Mike. I was learning power on stalls and I almost went into a spin by not immediately pushing left rudder when the stall broke. Mike and I had previously talked about spins, but as you said, it was not required in my training at that point. He was a really cool young CFI and showed me a few lessons later because I was curious. We went over, power idle, neutral ailerons, full opposite rudder(than turn coordinator is showing), pitch down - to break the spin then recover. It’s really easy, and even on my 1st few tries, I could do it without losing over 500 feet altitude. However, I could very easily see if a spin happened while you were not expecting and specifically set up for recovery; it would be very jarring and scary. You probably would lose 1000 feet before even realizing what was going on. Then, without being specifically prepared, you could lose several thousand more before remembering what was going on, how to recover, then finally recovering.
Most of us know the spin recovery procedure but the first and most important thing is CLOSE the throttle ...power off, a few have brought the farm through trying to recover with power on ....as we are not home on the couch but bricking it in an unusual attitude with the houses getting bigger , people panic under pressure . This guy is very relaxed ,a great place to be.
+Hot n Salty I accidentally got into a spin, and there is a panic because it's all very confusing and initially it hurts. Was glad my instructor did many spins with me. I think it's extremely important to experience them and learn them with a CFI.
During my lessons in a 152 my CFI had me stall and spin almost every lesson. It became so routine that recovery was automatic, even boring. I felt relaxed and confident in my abilities to recover if needed. I also did a lot of pre-stall training to avoid getting into a spin in the first place. I was surprised to learn that stall and spin practice is rare these days, we did it every lesson. We also did engine failure drills every lesson.
Thats great training - pilots should learn spins over and over until they are second nature.
My instructor once told me: the spin is impressive and but not very dangerous, but the spiral are unimpressive, but very dangerous.
During my training, we practiced spin and we were supposed to perform a 2 turns' spin.
My vote is to do spin training. I did that with my CFI, and on flight simulator so it became a known process. Even when I got my Instrument training, we did it under the hood. Gives you a level of confidence to handle those situations.
Wow! really surprises me that spin training is not required until CFI in America, especially when one of the biggest killers in GA is stalling on the base to final turn, which a lot of the time develops into an unrecoverable spin. I'm a PPL student in the U.K with only 15hours and we have spent at least 4--5 hours so far practicing spin recovery, power on stall to spins etc, and more importantly how to recognise an impending stall/spin.
Glad to see in the comments that a lot of CFI's in America do train their students on spin recovery even though it is not required.
Safe flying everyone.
now that I look back at it, I actually like this school and Jason's way of training.
Great video Jason. I am not certain if it is mentioned below, but we are required to demonstrate Spin recovery here in Canada before we can be cleared to solo. It is not tested on the Private check ride, but it is on the Commercial check ride. I love them, and it is a great skill to learn. Cheers.
+Henry Dupuis That is very interesting. I got the JAR-PPL in the UK and not only is spin training not required, it is not offered or recommended. As I was told, "if you never let a stall develop, you will not enter the spin." We did however, do spiral dive recovery which is completely different.
I also visited the USA and was surprised to be turned down by several CFIs when I told them I would like to go up for spin recovery. Now, from Jason's video, I can understand why they were reticent to try.
+douglasheld come to Canada, we can take you up and teach SPIN recovery. www.windsorflyingclub.com
As a past flight instructor, I am amazed that some countries do not make full spin training mandatory. The way I look at it, you should never feel uncomfortable in an aircraft no matter what attitude you are in. Look, there are two things you need in aviation 1) distance between you and the ground and 2) an aircraft that does not break apart. All PPL training should include stalls, incipient spins, full spins, all power off and then progress to power on. Of course this based on the aircraft's approvals.
Shortly after starting stalls probably 5th or 6th hour, my instructor who was current on spins ensured he did spins with me. It was a blast. I was doing Part 141 and I think it was in the syllabus to do at that time anyway. It saved my life later on a solos practicing high altitude maneuvers, and could at anytime should I ever get in to a spin for whatever reason. They're fun to practice, they suck to accidentally get into, so it's best to practice first and know how to recover. I think all student pilots should go through spin recovery procedures at least with their instructor, maybe not for exam purposes. Spins can suck and not all aircraft are certified for spins.
Great Video, !!! brings back memories as well. I was taught spin recovery by my MCFII for my private. It was a great learning experience and gave me much more confidence as well, would like to see the cockpit view of the video I think it might help even more to see what your actually doing and what it looks like from our point of view as well
In Europe spin recovery is also part of PPL training, I did mine in a C152 aerobat I will never forget it, it was an awesome experience.
Love your passion for aviation, brother!
This is awesome man, I am taking flying lessons and I can't wait until we learn this. I hope I have the nerves!!!!
Yes in Canada it is in the training for my REC License. Most of all I loved it!
When I was doing my glider training years ago my instructor did some spins with me. Then when I was doing my solo I practiced some stalls and spins before coming back. He asked me what I worked on and I told him, "Stalls and spins!" That's when I found out spins were a NO NO!
Hi Jason, thank you for all the videos. I like to request to post a video where we can see the outside view as well as inside the cabin as how to manage Yoke, Power, and Rudder from the beginning of the spin till full recovery. Thank you.
Thank you for watching and your feedback!
In a climbing turn you're actually constantly rolling to the OUTSIDE of the turn to maintain a certain attitude to the horizon. So the outside wing has a higher angle of attack - it should stall first. Result: Over-the-top spin
Opposite is true of a descending turn. You must constantly bank INTO the turn to follow the spiral -> low wing has higher angle of attack -> low wing stalls first.
Good video, thanks for posting. The only request I would make is to add a recovery with a cockpit view so we can see what you're doing as you're doing it. The outside view looks awesome, but I feel like I could learn better by actually seeing you do the maneuver.
Thanks Jason. Getting my CFII will have to get spin endorsement in a 172.
Great information and demonstration! Videos like this can actually save someone's life!
Thank you for sharing :)
You make this look easy. Good work
Thanks 👍
This video is good to prevent trauma!
As mentioned in other comments, the recovery is the thing. However, a properly rigged C-172 has a restricted deflection of the elevator that precludes a full stall. This is a certification compliance. Which leads to a problem with multi-turn spins. The aircraft will be accelerating and be in a high speed spiral versus an actual stable spin. This is a far more perilous condition as it appears to be a spin to the uninitiated and they will find themselves at a much higher speed exiting the maneuver than they planned. A major university used to have two,”Spin Ships,” in their fleet. This restricted the abuse of the classic gyros to just the two aircraft and, unbeknownst to most, maintenance tweaked the up stops of the elevator to give a slightly better stall which led to fewer over speeds of the airframes. Fully aerobatic aircraft rarely have restricted control movement and hence are IMO, better spin trainers. Aerobatics are great things to learn. They remove the term,”Unusual attitude,” from the pilot’s experience.
Although required for American CFI training, it should be required for at least Comm certs. Canadians get to rock it during primary, and we should too.
I know, if we don't stall we can't spin and there are many opinions stacked against demonstrating the maneuver. Either way, it should be included in primary training.
#Aviation #Spins
+Windtee I absolutely agree -- how else can you learn what to do if you get into a spin unintentionally?
Great video Jason, thanks!
Request for your next spin video: also play out the spin entry entirely on each camera in sequence instead of cutting between cameras so that we can experience the entirety from multiple angles. You have fantastic angles with all of those cameras!
Spinning is pretty safe as long as you have altitude. You should not be scared of spins. Learning to recovery is one of the most important things you can be good at, not getting in one in the first place is the most important.
Scary fact is most pilots who have spun in during an approach will tell you they didn't realize they were stalled until it was too late. Unfortunately, most stalls which has resulted in a spin happen close to the ground not at seven thousand feet. That being said it is of greater importance to have the knowledge of not unintentionally entering into this situation to begin with
One of the first things my flight school taught was spins - in a Piper Tomahawk, which will not pull out of a spin unless it is all done in the correct order - at the time I thought it was standard flight training.
Thanks for your video really enjoyed it it is hard to believe that spins I'm not a requirement before solo, I'm learning to fly gliders and I had to show I could do spins and recovery before they let me solo, I have flown a powered plane twice both times were when I was a teenager I can't afford to learn power so I have joined my local gliding club it's great I'm in Australia where are you I would like to check if it is the same requirements here I think spins need to be part of training, other wise people will die in crashes.
I think VR is a great way to learn spins, no risk of losing a wing, well a real wing anyway. You don't get the G forces but you will learn the visual ques and the muscle memory to react instantly. I would suggest the free "DCS World" flying the training P-51. It is very easy to spin and can be hard to recover. If you don't have a VR headset then you could use freetrack, facetracknoir, or trackir for head tracking, although for a lesser effect.
In Australia to obtain a PPL it is a requirement the all pilots are proficient at spin/stall recovery (assuming an appropriate aircraft available). The most likely time a pilot is likely to enter an incipient spin accidentally is when going solo for the first time or early in their career, particularly when flying low and slow, as in the circuit pattern. Proper spin/stall identification and recovery is essential for survival. After being deemed proficient we are encouraged to practice them during subsequent solo flights. Failing spin/stall recoveries will prevent a pilot being deemed proficient for their licence test.
Spins and stalls are not difficult, but they are the cause of many GA and LSA fatalities due to incorrect identification and recovery techniques.
I would suggest that if you flying school is NOT teaching spin/stall recoveries then they are failing their duty of care to their students. It is essential these techniques are taught if we want to improve the GA and LSA flight safety records.
Great video. EASA FI (UK) [or GBR]. Had a student use aileron at the stall. BANG! Auto rotate. NB 1700 RPM 20 Flap C172
Wow! Thanks for watching!
You have to know how to enter and recover a spin for CPL here in Aus. It's not on their check sheet but no approved testing officer will sign you off until you show you can.
Spin training may one day save your life. Do it. Every bad situation you encounter always is solved by "remember your training"
I am going to do spins today with my flight instructor. Can't wait lol.
PPL since 1970, never did a spin, but just bought a supercub and instructor is going to teach spins and recoveries. He uses the P.A.R.E. method also. He calls it "PAIR" not "PAR"
hahaha not a problem as long as the recovery is right
I love doing spins. Yes I checked to see if he was spin qualified.
Clear and informative as always. Thank you Jason!
Well that looks AMAZINGLY fun!
Did that many years ago in a 172, it did not recover immediately. The right spin entry was more abrupt than usual. It took 1.5 full revolutions, full sustained opposite rudder and full forward elevator, before it recovered, C of G was within limits. Turns out that three of the engine mounts after an engine overhaul were installed backwards, only the upper left mount was correctly installed. The student was a bit concerned, I was quite upset. A lot of good was accomplished from the investigation of the incident. So, if your aircraft has just had an engine replaced, check the engine mounts??? Remember shit happens, be safe, have fun! This was the only time in over 50 years of flying professionally, I experienced a preventable technical failure, that could have had a serious outcome.
Great lesson!
Thanks for the demo. You call this a spin. Is this what others call a fully developed stall or a wing stall?
Sad that many flight schools do not teach spin recovery...they say it's too dangerous....How foolish.
Great video....Thanks!
Great lesson, in Canada we have to do spin recover for ppl, and for cpl we have to get in the spin and recover !!!
Thanks for the insight, Ariel!
Last week N727RP, a twin engine turbo, went in close to my house. Someone got a cell phone video of it headed straight down and in a slow spin. All 5 people on board were killed. To my knowledge there's been no official release as to the cause of this accident however it looks like the spin stall. He was probably around 500' AGL flying slow, elevated angle of attack and a luggage for 5, and three ppl. in the back causing the CG to move aft.
SHOULD WE LOOK FOR A GOOD SPIN DOCTOR AFTER WE TRY THIS.
Here in Canada if you're doing your CPL, they ask you do/recover spins
Do spins well before CPL licensing, unless you’re training in an aircraft not certified for spin recovery like a Cirrus. Pulling the CAPS is not really practical everyday training lol
Video starts at 02:20.
Great video and explanation!
i find it crazy that this isn't required when you're doing your ppl. Do they not believe that this shit can happen to a ppl pilot? In any case, I'm happy my instructor did it with me, they're actually quite fun to do.
I've never gotten into a spin, I'm only 10 hours in, I definitely want to know how to get out of it in case I ever get into one.
Also, thanks for the video. I appreciate your knowledge.
Interesting video. Even though you are banked to the right, the incipient spin rolls to the left. Why is that? Is it because the right turn is not coordinated (see instruments at 4:06), so you are slipping right and the left wing stalls first? Anyway, what happens (right bank/turn, left spin) is contrary to what I've seen in several other spin videos. Can you comment?
Thanks,
-Hugh
+Hugh Secker-Walker What Jason has done is has stalled, encouraging a wing to drop by the use of the uncoordinated controls. The wing drop is typically contrary to the bank angle.
The incipient spin is simply a follow-on condition of the dropped-wing stall.
Love the PARE acro.
In Canada, we have to do spins before our first solo! I did spins at 13 hours!
We have spin recovery in our PPL syllabus in Canada! Not in our PPL flight test though!
Thanks for sharing, Jason!
In Canada, we have to do practice the recovery dual with our instructor at the PPL level, and we need to demonstrate it at the CPL level.
do you do a full spin or incipient spin in CPL flight test?
@@michaelz5633 full spin
Nicely done !
Thank you! Cheers!
Did spins yesterday and it was difficult to get the 172 even into a spin
As a student in the late eighties didn't know spins were not requested for ppl.
Did as I was told, Loved it.
YES the 172 you have to " work " to put it into a spin. 👍
Steve Gyorffy It was really fun, but some of them were more of a spiral than a descent
I haven't found any videos actually duplicating a base to final turn both right and left skidding turns, the scenario where most people get into trouble when they have overshot that turn to final.
Opposite rudder, but how do you know which way your spinning? How would you know which is opposite? I was watching the turn coordinator but it didn’t seem to have one side indicated vs. the other. Do I look at the turn coordinator and do the opposite of “step on the ball”? Thanks.
Thanks, I'm SOAKING IT UP Thanks Again for the information jjm in Montgomery Alabama Sent
in Canada they're mandatory apparently... doing them in about 5 flights from now
Best of luck!!
@@MzeroAFlightTraining Thanks! Means a lot
The Russian commercial airliner letting his kid take the controls and getting into a spin brought me here. Plane go boom.
very useful video training!
Very well made video showing proper recovery techniques, but that wasn't really a spin. It looked like barely half of a rotation which is really just the incipient stage of a spin. To your credit, that is really all most people need to learn to recover from. A 172 with that loading is a pretty sluggish spinner too. Try it with a 150 or Citabria and they can actually be a lot of fun. Your video has motivated me to edit and upload some of the spins I did in my 150 Aerobat last spring.
Nice lesson, pilots always learning. But one question: seems that you dont push elevator down as you said. Push hard elevator down could not get planes in the spin that we want to avoid? Maybe it's not to force so much...the plane recover itself from the spin if we dont push so hard on the controls...just the pedals need to make some work...I dont know, just want to clarify this. Notheless, thanks for this amazing channel and the good lessons in it!
+Henrique It would be good to get Jason's input. But I am thinking since he is in a relatively steep dive, releasing back pressure is all that was required of the elevator controls, until flying airspeed was regained.
Mr. Schappert, have you flown Pipers much? I am currently flying a Piper Warrior, and the stall behaviors (as you may know) are quite different than those of a 172, for example. I was just curious, if you had flown Pipers much, whether the spin process, behavior, and recovery is similar in a Piper Warrior to that of a 172! Thanks so much!
I think I did a spin once and didn't know it, until today. It felt like a hammerhead turn. I got lucky, plenty altitude.
Wow! Thanks for sharing, William!
I have a working theory here on spins and the endorsement, why is it even still required any more. With the introduction of the new ACS for the PPL, CPL, and now the coveted ATP. Under the new ACS Training curriculum, power on/off stall training is only taken to the sounding of the stall warning horn on steady; which as we all know is approximately 5-10 Knots above stall speed before recovery is made. In this flight attitude yaw will not have a chance to be introduced in my opinion; all of the aggravated conditions will not develop unless the CLEAN BREAK STALL is entered. The incipient spin cannot be entered from an imminent stall in my opinion; which is what the new ACS teaches. Therefore, the student cannot enter the spin unless they introduce top rudder in the direction they wish to spin on purpose. So, that being said the CFI spin endorsement is no longer needed since the student cannot enter a fully developed stall/spin from a imminent stall. This is just one CPL’s opinion and not that of the FAA. Maybe some CFI’s and even Jason himself can comment on this thread and provide some more insight.
Maybe I missed something. You were in a right turn yet you spun left rotation. Did you actually add left rudder to get the spin going?
Thanks for what you are doing for all of us
all the best neal
He was turning right , why’d it spin left. Will it spin right in a left turn.
Hello, thank you for the video
Where are the required parachutes since this is not for a CFI training ride?
In Australia it’s a requirement to recover from spins for the most basic of licence the recreational licence
When you say elevator down. Do you want to bring them to neutral or push the yoke as foward you can?
Hi Alex! You want to push the yoke forward (past neutral) to break the stall. This may require you to push it as far as you can depending on the severity of the spin. Thanks for watching! Please reach out to us at support@mzeroa.com if you have any additional questions. Fly safe!
We use to do them back in the 1980 set power 1500 rpm pull nose up till stall them full left or Wright rudder u would get 3 half rotations then opposite rudder when stop rotating pull out before u reach VNE we wold also pump left an Wright rudder pedals so wing tips didn’t go back into stall 1976 model 150s this was from 4000 feet good times
Ok so I know flight sims can be completely different and as a student pilot I do not know much. The only way I can get a F-35 out of a spin, which quickly turns into a flat spin with the maneuvers in the video, is to power back, rudder with the spin, turn into the spin, elevator down a little once a turn is established add power back in, neutralize. Why is this? Is it because it is a flight sim, jet powered, different airfoil, all of the above? Or am I just doing everything wrong?
Do I see an Island Airlines (out of ACK and HYA) sticker on behind you? Great to see some ZBW based carriers represented!