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I think the dex difference is a huge factor. Etie will be missing a LOT especially because she’s almost always fighting fliers who are fast and dodgy enemies, and not being able to double virtually ever even with speedtaker thus having only one chance to hit an inaccurate attack makes her do less damage on average (in my experience of using both Alcryst and Etie on maddening). Also there’s the fact that Luna procing with a crit (something that happens frequently because of Alcryst’s high dex) will one shot nearly every enemy in the game especially if he has lunar brace through equipping the Eirika ring or with skill inheritance. Etie having slightly higher strength just isn’t enough for me to say she’s worth deploying over Alcryst.
Yep- Etie can deal big numbers but she's going to struggle a lot with her niche of killing fliers on higher difficulties. Alcryst is far more reliable in that regard from my experiences, always bordering 90%+ in accuracy.
Just engrave or forge or use support or use any of the myriad ways to boost hit. What's the point hemming and hawing over a few points of dex when some engraves are giving out 10 or 15 or 20 points of dex worth of hitrate. Even standing adjacent to a C support partner gives 5 dex worth of hit, which already makes up for the difference in their base dexterity.
@@OriginalRaisins If we’re bringing engravings and forges into the discussion you can just as easily say the same for Alcryst. His damage can be easily fixed by giving him an engraved/forged bow. Not to mention forging/engraving crit onto his weapon makes it more likely that he procs luna crit which as I said before deletes almost every enemy in the game, with two possible chances to do so with a double (four with brave bow). It’s important to determine a baseline of how the units perform without any outside support because once you bring those outside factors in, the sky is the limit. But let’s be honest here, Etie’s issues are much harder to patch up with outside help compared to Alcryst who has one weakness and excels in nearly every other aspect.
@@rosemclean2519 The difference between no engrave and the largest +hit engrave is 20 dexterity worth of hit The difference between no engrave and the largest +atk engrave is 3 strength work of attack It is far harder for Alcryst to make up the difference in atk than it is for Etie to make up the difference in hit. If the tools for boosting accuracy are more readily available and greater in magnitude that the tools for boosting damage, then of course I would value the unit who brings her own damage to the table more than I would value the unit who brings his own accuracy to the table.
@@OriginalRaisins Again, you’re not factoring in the fact that with luna and doubling/quading on average Alcryst can deal more damage in a round of combat than Etie who can usually only hit for one attack, and putting brave bow on her hurts her accuracy considerably, unlike Alcryst who still has a very naturally high hit rate with brave bow and the potential to quad and Luna for at least one of four hits.
My stance is, Bows are so good in Engage that you can run Alcryst, Panette, Etie, and Fogado on the same team and have them be effective and useful without overlapping contention for rings and resources.
Really? I ended up phasing them out in my first couple maddening runs and I'm trying to make them work in my third but it's definitely rocky, I always thought they were incredibly weak but then again I tend to play with more enemy phase tanking than most I think. Not sure how to use them tbh
@@michaelhenry6915 I always found bows useful just because of how annoying enemy Griffon Knights can be in this game so the option’s always nice to have.
Crazy how Alcrysts personal skill wasn't even mentioned. +3 strength as long as someone in 2 spaces is attacked is the freesst condition since Persecution Complex. Sure it doesn't completely cover the gap but given his example of Luna adding 5 strength on average, Alcryst now sits a point ahead of Etie in the strength department. And thats not even talking about how Alcryst can actually double things and reliably hit his shots, unlike Etie. By his own admission, Alcryst surpasses Etie in every other stat, how is this even a debate?
@@bluevalor491 Yeah. I was talking about Alcryst's personal which unlike Etie's actually has a reasonable activation. Seriously when is Etie going to sit down and drink a vulnerary for enemy phase strength as an archer.
Not true. First looking in the endgame there is not a single enemy that Alcryst naturally doubles that Etie doesn't and also every enemy that doubles Etie also doubles Alcryst. At Internal Level 30 Alcryst has 25 speed and Etie has 21. Also using that same level Alcryst has 20+3 Str. with his personal active and Etie has 32. Now using Endgame Halberdiers who have 33 Def Etie does 18 Damage with a Silver bow while Alcryst yes has a 34% chance to do 25 damage with Luna but also has a 66% chance to do 9. So Etie will reliably 4 round K.O. them while Alcryst has a minimum of 3 with 3 back to back Luna Procs (11% chance), has a 4 hit with 2 Luna's (23% chance), or a 6/8 hit K.O. with 1/0 Luna's making Etie much more reliable. Also seeing as neither one kills in one round Etie being a Warrior gives the extra bonus of doing 6 additional damage when someone else attacks upping her damage after one ally attacks to 24 100% of the time compared to Alcryst's 34% to do 25. People also Like to mention Alcryst with the Brave bow so with that he does 0 damage without Luna and up to 32 Damage per round with 2 proc's (once again a 23% chance). With this it still takes him 3 rounds to kill them but requires 6 Luna Proc's to do this. This is all also taking into account his personal being active which isn't free at all. Toward the end of the game you don't want your units taking hits since most won't survive more than 2 hits so he will very rarely have his personal active making his numbers even lower.
The age old debate, WHO IS THE BETTER ARCHER, Etie or Alcryst. If I had to pick one, I'd take Alcryst for a few reasons: I usually funnel XP into Alear/Chloe early game so Etie will be starved of levels, so Alcryst being lv 10 for free is a huge edge. Alcryst gets STR+3 consistently from his passive and it is easy to play around. If used early game, he will have more STR than etie on top of better hit/durability. Alcryst has higher BLD/SPD and is easier to get into doubling thresholds. He can also proc luna more consistently than it seems because when you double the odds of seeing luna change: Lets assume a few dex levels that Alcryst can easily reach throughout a run: 25 Dex(Early midgame) 25% Chance per individual shot, 43% chance of seeing a single Luna total (Probability calc) 35 Dex (Midgame) 35% Chance per individual shot/57.75% chance of seeing a single Luna. 45 Dex (Lategame) 45% chance of individual/70% (Rounded) of seeing a single Luna. If Luna procs once, Alcryst is smoking Etie in damage, and if we manage his passive (which is easy to trigger if playing at a moderate pace with him behind front line/near them) he has constant competitive damage with her. In my runs I was able to get him to 40-45 Dex by endgame as a main damage unit. Now lets assume you have him using a Brave Bow, things get insane if he can quad: 25 Dex x4 = 68% chance of seeing a single Luna 35 Dex x4 = 82.15% chance of seeing a single Luna 45 Dex x 4 = 90% chance of Luna Even if we ignore STR fixing emblems/options, he can lean into his SPD/BLD and push for a quad luna build off of his kit alone. Lets argue we don't want him doing this and want to avoid Luna all together, at worst Luna is 20-45% chance of extra free damage, and we can just STR fix him by doing: STR+3 (early with well) passive Roy and eventually STR+5 or +6 after CH19 Lunar Brace (with doubling gives him competitive damage, especially if quadding) Bravery + (+5 damage per hit) Roy Ring (+6 STR Bond 20, more when engaged with Rise Above) Ike Ring (+4 STR) Kind of a meme but its raw STR Marth Ring, gives +3 STR, 4 dex/SPD and gives extra attack in engage (more luna chance/consistency) Eirika Ring, Gives Lunar Brace/+ for free and when engaged also gives DAM+3/5, giving him huge damage by using her. Also gives DEX +4, Mag+3 and LCK+10, of those Dex +4 = more Lunas, Mag+3 boosts Radiant bow damage. Both are worse than Fogado though, who has better BLD/Bulk/SPD than either and a more averaged STR on a mounted class that can run Radiant Bow/Levin Sword relatively well :) Math tool used: www.calctool.org/math-and-statistics/probability Marth is an interesting option for lategame, it is a fantastic emblem but it perfectly fits into his kit, fixes SPD/DEX and STR while giving an extra attack, here is what Luna looks like with 3 attacks: 25 Dex = 58% Chance of Lunar appearing (Rounded) 35 Dex = 73% Luna (Rounded) 45 Dex = 83% Luna (Rounded) He can effectively run Roy, Ike, Marth, Eirika, possibly Sigurd/Leif for Brave bow on Speed Taker passive. He could also run Lyn with Lunar Brace and BLD+4-5 brave bow to quad off of SPD+5/SPD Taker from Lyn so he has a lot of viable builds to leverage his passive/bases. Even just triggering his passive consistently and a STR Tonic gives him +5 Damage.
We've been pumping out calculations reasoning, case examples, but once etie fans decide she is better then no logical reasons needed. As one of the title of your video, why do we even compare Etie with Alcryst?
Similarly Alcryst is not getting those early master seals from the better units you mentioned and more that join the same chapter he does or 2 chapters later. So he’s stuck in the same boat, except Etie has been more useful for longer. Therefore she’s ultimately the better unit.
Since you brought it up at the end. I do like using alcryst more because of his defenses. Etie can easily die in 1 round of combat before warrior. Its just not always safe to use her (in iron man). Someone misses a 90 and suddenly she is in range of an unexpected enemy. Alcryst can take almost any single enemy without dying. Also Luna Crits Builds are fun :)
Interesting discussion/analysis. I don't think it's fully fair to write off their speed/dex difference as irrelevant in calculating their expected damage though. Yes, if they are both using Lyn then they will both double pretty much anything once speedtaker is fully ramped, but there are going to be a lot of moments over the course of a full playthrough where Alcryst would double when Etie would not, and Alcryst will have more crits and fewer misses. Hard to put a number on how many more times he will double/hit/crit than etie, but if you were to take this into account when calculating their expected damage in the same way you factored in the probability of luna triggering, I'd be quite surprised if Alcryst didn't come out ahead by a solid margin in terms of expected damage per map. That being said, Alcryst still has a significant downside in that you can't rely on luna hitting when you're planning out what to do on your turn, so a lot of that damage may end up going into overkilling enemies. This is partially mitigated by the fact that he's more likely to be able to survive a hit than Etie and doesn't get doubled by everyone and their mom in the early game, whereas if you miss a single attack on an enemy with Etie you can find yourself in trouble very quickly. I prefer Alcryst overall, but see the argument for both (especially if you allow Etie to be a warrior for longbow backup attacks).
Enemies in engage are really easy to double, especially if you have Lyn. The first boss that Warrior Etie with Lyn and a silver bow fails to double with zero speed levelups is ch17 Zephia. Every boss before that point she can double with silver bow in warrior even if she literally never levels speed once. If you allow Draconic hex and a single speedwing (or just level speed or build twice), then warrior Etie doubles every boss up until chapter 23
@@OriginalRaisins That's a fair point, though I was thinking more about enemies earlier on in the mission rather than bosses since you're not going to have your speedtaker stacked at the start. Only point being that if we're calculating the expected damage per map of each character like was done in the video, we should also factor in that there are gonna be at least some scenarios where alcryst doubles/hits/crits when Etie does not. BTW I remember watching your video on mentorship about 3/4 of the way through my first maddening playthrough like 4 months ago. You saved me from having a wasted skill on literally every character lmao
Idk why ur prioritising simple strength growth ? Alcryst with only a little speed fixing can reliably double where Etie (without Lyn) will never be able to, he has VERY high dex base and growth so on killer bow will be criting all the time and that’s on top of a high chance of Luna activation giving even MORE damage + his personal is wayy better than Etie’s which is one of the worst in the game. So basically idk why ur focusing on strength growth when Alcryst has wayyyy higher damage output . This also isn’t even mentioning that etie will get one shot by most things and if she doesn’t then she will definitely get doubled on and die anyways
Fliers in maddening mode is no joke. There are maps with over ten of them, and some DLC and skirmishes have over 20! Camilla's divine paralogue has INFINITE flier reinforcements!! So frankly, I personally need every bow user I can get in this game. Alcryst, Etiè, Fogado, heck I'll even give Panette a bow! I simply cannot afford to bench or under invest in ANY of them. Which one is best is an entertaining mental exercise, but at least for me it doesn't matter because I need them ALL.
I haven't used etie in a full run before but I think the dex Alcryst gets from rings and potential activities/skill books is worth at least considering. And while I'm sure etie gets good use of it too, the brave bow helps Alcryst proc Luna more times per combat (especially since he'll be doubling with less setup)
Alcryst really needs extra strength not extra dex so he can’t really afford to stay in his class he needs warrior where as it’s just an option for etie. You can’t rely on luna and you ain’t getting his crit to 100% but you can rely on the extra damage from warrior. If anything etie would like alcryst class more because she is the one who actually has questionable accuracy and thus kinda likes a class that boost her dex significantly though she’s probably better off with bow knight in particular. Etie starts in arguably her best class line since she appreciates the bonuses from bow knight bringing her speed up and her dex up the two primary stats she needs support in where as alcryst ain’t getting strength support from his personal class
@@ultimaterecoil1136 im saying the dex gives him more consistant luna procs because the video is arguing sniper etie vs personal class alcryst. with a lyn/eirika ring, he will reach well above 35 dex. im at chapter 21 and mine has closer to 45, and with a brave bow he reliably procs it twice per combat. also alcrysts personal skill helps him shorten the strength gap and is pretty easy to take advantage of
Without strong favoritism, hes better at base, can promote right away, can realistically double and live rounds of combat, the only thing I'm hearing etie has over Alcryst is 8 strength at the end of the game. Let's not forget that Alcryst starts with more strength, and if you include his (actually useful) personal skill, will stay as strong or stronger until around solm, and even then he'll still have more spd, dex, and defenses
Alcryst might only avaerage 5 damage extra per attack woth luna, but you can make that higher if yoh choose to rig luna procs or attack higher defense enemies. If youre willing to do some rng manipulation, alcryst id much better of a boss killer.
I think it's worth discussing that RNG in Fire Emblem isn't really ever something that can be factored out. If you have a 35% chance but then you have other things like procs for crits or doubles that could occur, it begins to stack more than just raw stats. Although then again I'm basing this off of other RPGs, such as ParaFlinch in Pokemon. Relying on just paralysis or flinching isn't a great strategy, but relying on both inceases the chances the opponent will miss a turn. Essentually, fine tuning RNG is a strategy, and adding another element that's in your favor to an RNG can change things. Because growths and stuff aren't also guaranteed, yes you can use items if you want them on a unit, but Alcryst will always get Luna without any assistance. Then again Alcryst is my favorite character in the game, that's probably due to me being an anxiety riddled younger brother myself.
It's pretty easy to factor out RNG. Just get 100% hit, make sure that your attacks kill, and make sure that the enemies can't kill you even if they do hit. This is pretty easy to do in Engage.
I have always been of the opinion that using both in the army is a great choice. Etie has a lot of flaws but just consistently using her in my first and subsequent runs of the game she has always carried especially with lyn but doesn't need it. She does do best in warrior though not sniper, with a decent perf skill I think she could have been even better but I have found niche cases where it is useful. Al does have a pretty easy way of raising his strength tho with his perf skill
I think that Etie is ultimately better but I do think she requires a bit more investment and really wants Lyn. She is worth the investment but Alcryst is a bit more plug and play and can make use of a different ring if u want Lyn on someone else.
Its Etie and its not close. All the early lords rely on their procs to be even passable. Timerra is trash regardless of investment (within reason) and Alcryst is too.
Defense is important even on archers, you never know when you get rushed in this game. Anyways I am not playing on maddening difficulty, otherwise Etie would be better I bet
I don't get why you're so hung up on keeping Etie a Sniper and calling her "B-Tier", when you can Reclass her to a Warrior watch her performance skyrocket. Warrior gives her enough to Bld to carry Silver weapons, improves her Spd and doubles down on her Str. She's supposed to be a raw Atk monster, not a Crit Fisher. My Etie equipped with a Silver Bow+3 sits at 51 Atk, 26 BASE Spd and more Bld than she needs. She's been an ORKO monster for the vast majority of the game and I didn't even feed her any Energy Drops nor Speedwings. She is an amazing Unit as a Warrior and your refusal to try things out only calls the validity of these "guides" of yours into question, because you're actively giving people bad advice by relegating Etie to a "B-Tier" Unit when she can easily reach "S-Tier" with the proper setup, which you refuse to test. Sorry, but that's a thumbs down from me for spreading misinformation.
The point of the video wasn’t to talk about best builds. I am fully aware that warrior is the best class for Etie and almost every other physical fighter in the game that you don’t want to make a Wyvern. I was just trying to show that Etie out paces Alcryst in strength even in Sniper. Sorry I offended you so badly with my “misinformation”. I also literally said that I think Etie is better. I don’t know why you are so upset.
Every Etie fans arguments: reclassing Etie into warrior, she is better archer than Alcryst. Great, now she is in the class where it's arguably the best landlocked class in engage with high base strength and high build (yeah warrior high base build helps A LOT to offset Etie pitiful bulid), can wield axe, and you compare her against Alcryst, a bow only unit. If you reclass her into warrior then her competitions are Pannete. Etie simps need to learn how comparing units works.
Its worth pointing out because Etie benefits from being a Warrior while Alcryst loses out. The discussion here is not whether she is the best archer in the game or the best warrior but rather whether she is the better archer. As long as Warrior can use a bow, it is also an archer class which means it is still viable for the discussion. When the discussion changes to Etie vs Panette or who is the best Warrior, then your argument has merit but in the discussion of Etie vs Alcryst, it means nothing because Alcryst is hindered by reclassing to Warrior, losing out on his strengths to try to match Etie with her own.
@@GameAW1 it's also worth pointing out by simply reclassing to warrior is not enough. You need to give her resources, speed fixing, dex and hit fixing and for what? Becoming worst version of any warriors? Alcryst in his default unique class is enough for handling fliers, cheap and low cost while trying to fix Etie is the worst investment better going at better units
@@yohanes2034 You're really underselling Etie and even making her out to sound like one of the worst units in the game, period. Reclassing into Warrior isn't enough sure, but it is a huge step in her viability and with her extra build, allows her to use heavier weapons with no issue as well as give her a notable edge over Alcryst whom again is literally the only unit not named Etie who matters in this comparison. She pretty much only needs to be a Warrior and get the Lyn ring (at least long enough that she can inherit the speedtaker skill) and you have an archer who will only need one hit to kill most foes and quickly snowball hard and fast enough to double if needed to punch holes in tankier units, if not killing them outright as well as having axe use as a bonus, something Alcryst simply cannot feasibly do nearly as well and plays against his strengths if he tries to do so. He NEEDS to dedicate to the bow entirely and needs his dexterity and speed to be at his best. Whether Etie is the best or not in a class or role is wholly irrelevant to the topic. The topic is between Etie and Alcryst, nobody else. Any factors about who does what better that isn't named Etie or Alcryst has no bearing on the topic. And in that conversation, Luna is Alcryst's ace in the hole but without that he falls short compared to the numbers Etie at her best can pump out every single time. Since Alcryst has ways and builds to ensure Luna will proc nearly or even outright every single time, that is the angle in which he competes against Etie. Without that, he would just be the objectively worse choice outright.
The Virgin Alcryst Advocate VS The Chad Etie Enjoyer. Etie has always done a better job for me than Alcryst has for me personally. After numerous runs, Etie has outperformed Alcryst every time (On randomized growths and yes, I have had them in different and same classes just to see how they do throughout my runs). I could also bring in the point of DEF where your Bow users should not be getting hit to begin with, but everyone has different play-styles and it is just something to think about.
No DLC and no special investment or attention into an archer early on: yeah Fagado/Pannete warrior is better than both. No DLC and and some early investment and use of one of Etie or Alcryst early: from the two Etie will be a more consistent phys damage throughout game. With DLC just go solo Tiki map with Etie (or Alcryst) if you want they covert and you can engrave for them not to be hit on avo heal tiles. By endgame Etie needs less in skills/ sp and abilities to do job as in OHKO than Alcryst. Just cheap accuracy fix (bow focus) and canter. Also I ironman so like guessing if Alcryst will kill with a luna proc is a big nono vs knowing exactly how much damage I am getting with Etie.
i'm guessing you don't use a crit bow with alcryst. if you have the crit bow and luna withalcryst, usualy he will ether crit or get luna. fun fact, doubleing increases your chance of haveing one shot crit or land luna. it's easy to fix the speed of alcryst.and his personal skill is easy to proc too. did someone within 2 range of him get hit? +3 damage. if you stack enough rng, it becomes a way more viable stratagy.
@@kittenfan7664 as I am in the business of ironman, I don't care about "usually" I want to know exactly what I am getting when I choose to take an action.
@@ChanceOrangeGE this is in the buisness of ironman, where you can also use every tool in your arsonal it's only 6 chapters till you get the trump card that is fogado anyway. the personal skill thing covers the gap till you get fogado.
Best answer: use neither. In all seriousness though Amber is a straight upgrade to Etie and Fogado outclasses both as a bow user. Alcryst can get Luna funnies and with Marisa S Ring can get Looney Tunes kills that only Timerra can even dream of. I gave him Wrath in my all royals run and he only failed to kill once out of the twelve or so kills including a Wyrm and Mauvier in Chapter 19 I gave him after he got Lethality (I cleared chapter 19 and clicked Warp after that.) It’s like arguing Wil v Rebecca. Both are bad and deserve to hit the bench. End of story.
@@AdamWithFED They’re both low tier so it seems apt to me. Of the two I prefer Alcryst because it’s unlikely Etie will be getting to level 8 like you assumed. I just have other units to whom I’d rather be giving the investment pre-7 like Chloe so she can promote with the Anna paralogue Master Seal. Thus Etie will likely have leveled only once or twice so Alcryst will be better when he joins. I also like putting Leif on Alcryst for his early chapters since he joins the chapter after and Adaptable gives extra Avo to Coverts and allows him to EP on a forest or pillar which Etie can never do because her poor bulk and Engage RNG make too risky. Alcryst can even tank a little off a forest so he’s more flexible in positioning. Gun to my head I’m picking Alcryst but I don’t like either of them.
I think the dex difference is a huge factor. Etie will be missing a LOT especially because she’s almost always fighting fliers who are fast and dodgy enemies, and not being able to double virtually ever even with speedtaker thus having only one chance to hit an inaccurate attack makes her do less damage on average (in my experience of using both Alcryst and Etie on maddening). Also there’s the fact that Luna procing with a crit (something that happens frequently because of Alcryst’s high dex) will one shot nearly every enemy in the game especially if he has lunar brace through equipping the Eirika ring or with skill inheritance. Etie having slightly higher strength just isn’t enough for me to say she’s worth deploying over Alcryst.
Yep- Etie can deal big numbers but she's going to struggle a lot with her niche of killing fliers on higher difficulties. Alcryst is far more reliable in that regard from my experiences, always bordering 90%+ in accuracy.
Just engrave or forge or use support or use any of the myriad ways to boost hit. What's the point hemming and hawing over a few points of dex when some engraves are giving out 10 or 15 or 20 points of dex worth of hitrate. Even standing adjacent to a C support partner gives 5 dex worth of hit, which already makes up for the difference in their base dexterity.
@@OriginalRaisins If we’re bringing engravings and forges into the discussion you can just as easily say the same for Alcryst. His damage can be easily fixed by giving him an engraved/forged bow. Not to mention forging/engraving crit onto his weapon makes it more likely that he procs luna crit which as I said before deletes almost every enemy in the game, with two possible chances to do so with a double (four with brave bow). It’s important to determine a baseline of how the units perform without any outside support because once you bring those outside factors in, the sky is the limit. But let’s be honest here, Etie’s issues are much harder to patch up with outside help compared to Alcryst who has one weakness and excels in nearly every other aspect.
@@rosemclean2519 The difference between no engrave and the largest +hit engrave is 20 dexterity worth of hit
The difference between no engrave and the largest +atk engrave is 3 strength work of attack
It is far harder for Alcryst to make up the difference in atk than it is for Etie to make up the difference in hit. If the tools for boosting accuracy are more readily available and greater in magnitude that the tools for boosting damage, then of course I would value the unit who brings her own damage to the table more than I would value the unit who brings his own accuracy to the table.
@@OriginalRaisins Again, you’re not factoring in the fact that with luna and doubling/quading on average Alcryst can deal more damage in a round of combat than Etie who can usually only hit for one attack, and putting brave bow on her hurts her accuracy considerably, unlike Alcryst who still has a very naturally high hit rate with brave bow and the potential to quad and Luna for at least one of four hits.
My stance is, Bows are so good in Engage that you can run Alcryst, Panette, Etie, and Fogado on the same team and have them be effective and useful without overlapping contention for rings and resources.
Really? I ended up phasing them out in my first couple maddening runs and I'm trying to make them work in my third but it's definitely rocky, I always thought they were incredibly weak but then again I tend to play with more enemy phase tanking than most I think. Not sure how to use them tbh
@@michaelhenry6915 I always found bows useful just because of how annoying enemy Griffon Knights can be in this game so the option’s always nice to have.
Crazy how Alcrysts personal skill wasn't even mentioned. +3 strength as long as someone in 2 spaces is attacked is the freesst condition since Persecution Complex. Sure it doesn't completely cover the gap but given his example of Luna adding 5 strength on average, Alcryst now sits a point ahead of Etie in the strength department. And thats not even talking about how Alcryst can actually double things and reliably hit his shots, unlike Etie. By his own admission, Alcryst surpasses Etie in every other stat, how is this even a debate?
Alcryst and his personal is literally the same strength as Etie if they are both warriors at lvl.10 before promotion.
@@supervolcanobladerharris131 Etie’s gives +2 not +3 and will NEVER be activated, it’s dismal
@@bluevalor491 Yeah. I was talking about Alcryst's personal which unlike Etie's actually has a reasonable activation. Seriously when is Etie going to sit down and drink a vulnerary for enemy phase strength as an archer.
@@supervolcanobladerharris131 With Leif ring on a fog tile next to A supported Yunaka with Corrin. That's what I did at least XD
Not true. First looking in the endgame there is not a single enemy that Alcryst naturally doubles that Etie doesn't and also every enemy that doubles Etie also doubles Alcryst. At Internal Level 30 Alcryst has 25 speed and Etie has 21. Also using that same level Alcryst has 20+3 Str. with his personal active and Etie has 32.
Now using Endgame Halberdiers who have 33 Def Etie does 18 Damage with a Silver bow while Alcryst yes has a 34% chance to do 25 damage with Luna but also has a 66% chance to do 9. So Etie will reliably 4 round K.O. them while Alcryst has a minimum of 3 with 3 back to back Luna Procs (11% chance), has a 4 hit with 2 Luna's (23% chance), or a 6/8 hit K.O. with 1/0 Luna's making Etie much more reliable. Also seeing as neither one kills in one round Etie being a Warrior gives the extra bonus of doing 6 additional damage when someone else attacks upping her damage after one ally attacks to 24 100% of the time compared to Alcryst's 34% to do 25.
People also Like to mention Alcryst with the Brave bow so with that he does 0 damage without Luna and up to 32 Damage per round with 2 proc's (once again a 23% chance). With this it still takes him 3 rounds to kill them but requires 6 Luna Proc's to do this. This is all also taking into account his personal being active which isn't free at all. Toward the end of the game you don't want your units taking hits since most won't survive more than 2 hits so he will very rarely have his personal active making his numbers even lower.
The age old debate, WHO IS THE BETTER ARCHER, Etie or Alcryst.
If I had to pick one, I'd take Alcryst for a few reasons:
I usually funnel XP into Alear/Chloe early game so Etie will be starved of levels, so Alcryst being lv 10 for free is a huge edge.
Alcryst gets STR+3 consistently from his passive and it is easy to play around. If used early game, he will have more STR than etie on top of better hit/durability.
Alcryst has higher BLD/SPD and is easier to get into doubling thresholds. He can also proc luna more consistently than it seems because when you double the odds of seeing luna change:
Lets assume a few dex levels that Alcryst can easily reach throughout a run:
25 Dex(Early midgame)
25% Chance per individual shot, 43% chance of seeing a single Luna total (Probability calc)
35 Dex (Midgame)
35% Chance per individual shot/57.75% chance of seeing a single Luna.
45 Dex (Lategame)
45% chance of individual/70% (Rounded) of seeing a single Luna.
If Luna procs once, Alcryst is smoking Etie in damage, and if we manage his passive (which is easy to trigger if playing at a moderate pace with him behind front line/near them) he has constant competitive damage with her. In my runs I was able to get him to 40-45 Dex by endgame as a main damage unit.
Now lets assume you have him using a Brave Bow, things get insane if he can quad:
25 Dex x4 = 68% chance of seeing a single Luna
35 Dex x4 = 82.15% chance of seeing a single Luna
45 Dex x 4 = 90% chance of Luna
Even if we ignore STR fixing emblems/options, he can lean into his SPD/BLD and push for a quad luna build off of his kit alone.
Lets argue we don't want him doing this and want to avoid Luna all together, at worst Luna is 20-45% chance of extra free damage, and we can just STR fix him by doing:
STR+3 (early with well) passive Roy and eventually STR+5 or +6 after CH19
Lunar Brace (with doubling gives him competitive damage, especially if quadding)
Bravery + (+5 damage per hit)
Roy Ring (+6 STR Bond 20, more when engaged with Rise Above)
Ike Ring (+4 STR) Kind of a meme but its raw STR
Marth Ring, gives +3 STR, 4 dex/SPD and gives extra attack in engage (more luna chance/consistency)
Eirika Ring, Gives Lunar Brace/+ for free and when engaged also gives DAM+3/5, giving him huge damage by using her. Also gives DEX +4, Mag+3 and LCK+10, of those Dex +4 = more Lunas, Mag+3 boosts Radiant bow damage.
Both are worse than Fogado though, who has better BLD/Bulk/SPD than either and a more averaged STR on a mounted class that can run Radiant Bow/Levin Sword relatively well :)
Math tool used:
www.calctool.org/math-and-statistics/probability
Marth is an interesting option for lategame, it is a fantastic emblem but it perfectly fits into his kit, fixes SPD/DEX and STR while giving an extra attack, here is what Luna looks like with 3 attacks:
25 Dex = 58% Chance of Lunar appearing (Rounded)
35 Dex = 73% Luna (Rounded)
45 Dex = 83% Luna (Rounded)
He can effectively run Roy, Ike, Marth, Eirika, possibly Sigurd/Leif for Brave bow on Speed Taker passive. He could also run
Lyn with Lunar Brace and BLD+4-5 brave bow to quad off of SPD+5/SPD Taker from Lyn so he has a lot of viable builds to leverage his passive/bases. Even just triggering his passive consistently and a STR Tonic gives him +5 Damage.
We've been pumping out calculations reasoning, case examples, but once etie fans decide she is better then no logical reasons needed.
As one of the title of your video, why do we even compare Etie with Alcryst?
Similarly Alcryst is not getting those early master seals from the better units you mentioned and more that join the same chapter he does or 2 chapters later.
So he’s stuck in the same boat, except Etie has been more useful for longer. Therefore she’s ultimately the better unit.
FRAMME!! 😤
Since you brought it up at the end. I do like using alcryst more because of his defenses. Etie can easily die in 1 round of combat before warrior. Its just not always safe to use her (in iron man). Someone misses a 90 and suddenly she is in range of an unexpected enemy. Alcryst can take almost any single enemy without dying. Also Luna Crits Builds are fun :)
Alcryst with a Killer Bow +5 with a critical-based Emblem branding and Lunar just says I just one shot your ass.
Whats the point in having high str if you cant hit anything/stay alive long enough to use it?
Interesting discussion/analysis. I don't think it's fully fair to write off their speed/dex difference as irrelevant in calculating their expected damage though. Yes, if they are both using Lyn then they will both double pretty much anything once speedtaker is fully ramped, but there are going to be a lot of moments over the course of a full playthrough where Alcryst would double when Etie would not, and Alcryst will have more crits and fewer misses. Hard to put a number on how many more times he will double/hit/crit than etie, but if you were to take this into account when calculating their expected damage in the same way you factored in the probability of luna triggering, I'd be quite surprised if Alcryst didn't come out ahead by a solid margin in terms of expected damage per map.
That being said, Alcryst still has a significant downside in that you can't rely on luna hitting when you're planning out what to do on your turn, so a lot of that damage may end up going into overkilling enemies. This is partially mitigated by the fact that he's more likely to be able to survive a hit than Etie and doesn't get doubled by everyone and their mom in the early game, whereas if you miss a single attack on an enemy with Etie you can find yourself in trouble very quickly. I prefer Alcryst overall, but see the argument for both (especially if you allow Etie to be a warrior for longbow backup attacks).
Enemies in engage are really easy to double, especially if you have Lyn. The first boss that Warrior Etie with Lyn and a silver bow fails to double with zero speed levelups is ch17 Zephia. Every boss before that point she can double with silver bow in warrior even if she literally never levels speed once.
If you allow Draconic hex and a single speedwing (or just level speed or build twice), then warrior Etie doubles every boss up until chapter 23
@@OriginalRaisins That's a fair point, though I was thinking more about enemies earlier on in the mission rather than bosses since you're not going to have your speedtaker stacked at the start. Only point being that if we're calculating the expected damage per map of each character like was done in the video, we should also factor in that there are gonna be at least some scenarios where alcryst doubles/hits/crits when Etie does not.
BTW I remember watching your video on mentorship about 3/4 of the way through my first maddening playthrough like 4 months ago. You saved me from having a wasted skill on literally every character lmao
Idk why ur prioritising simple strength growth ?
Alcryst with only a little speed fixing can reliably double where Etie (without Lyn) will never be able to, he has VERY high dex base and growth so on killer bow will be criting all the time and that’s on top of a high chance of Luna activation giving even MORE damage + his personal is wayy better than Etie’s which is one of the worst in the game.
So basically idk why ur focusing on strength growth when Alcryst has wayyyy higher damage output .
This also isn’t even mentioning that etie will get one shot by most things and if she doesn’t then she will definitely get doubled on and die anyways
This! I've barely been able to make Etie keep up past chapter 6 whereas Alcryst always pulls his own weight. I wasn't even aware this was a debate.
To answer the question in the description, my favorite emblem is probably Byleth. Dance of the Goddess is just too good.
Fliers in maddening mode is no joke. There are maps with over ten of them, and some DLC and skirmishes have over 20! Camilla's divine paralogue has INFINITE flier reinforcements!! So frankly, I personally need every bow user I can get in this game. Alcryst, Etiè, Fogado, heck I'll even give Panette a bow! I simply cannot afford to bench or under invest in ANY of them. Which one is best is an entertaining mental exercise, but at least for me it doesn't matter because I need them ALL.
The first time I played engage without knowing how the game works I used Etie, just because of her Str, so I still prefer to use her every playtrough
Fogato better than both
based
W
The actual answer for best mainstay archer is whichever low investment Warrior slots best into your team
Etie's problem is that she has to contend against every unit who can slot into warrior.
Alcryst at least is unique as a player phase unit.
I like them both, but Alcryst probably takes the cake for me just because I like rolling the Luna gacha.
Answer
Now one cares! Fogado clears.
I haven't used etie in a full run before but I think the dex Alcryst gets from rings and potential activities/skill books is worth at least considering. And while I'm sure etie gets good use of it too, the brave bow helps Alcryst proc Luna more times per combat (especially since he'll be doubling with less setup)
Alcryst really needs extra strength not extra dex so he can’t really afford to stay in his class he needs warrior where as it’s just an option for etie. You can’t rely on luna and you ain’t getting his crit to 100% but you can rely on the extra damage from warrior. If anything etie would like alcryst class more because she is the one who actually has questionable accuracy and thus kinda likes a class that boost her dex significantly though she’s probably better off with bow knight in particular. Etie starts in arguably her best class line since she appreciates the bonuses from bow knight bringing her speed up and her dex up the two primary stats she needs support in where as alcryst ain’t getting strength support from his personal class
@@ultimaterecoil1136 im saying the dex gives him more consistant luna procs because the video is arguing sniper etie vs personal class alcryst. with a lyn/eirika ring, he will reach well above 35 dex. im at chapter 21 and mine has closer to 45, and with a brave bow he reliably procs it twice per combat. also alcrysts personal skill helps him shorten the strength gap and is pretty easy to take advantage of
Without strong favoritism, hes better at base, can promote right away, can realistically double and live rounds of combat, the only thing I'm hearing etie has over Alcryst is 8 strength at the end of the game. Let's not forget that Alcryst starts with more strength, and if you include his (actually useful) personal skill, will stay as strong or stronger until around solm, and even then he'll still have more spd, dex, and defenses
"Etie is better! My waifu is better than your waifu! End of discussion!"
idc who's better Etie has fire drip in Sniper so she immediately clears all
Alcryst might only avaerage 5 damage extra per attack woth luna, but you can make that higher if yoh choose to rig luna procs or attack higher defense enemies. If youre willing to do some rng manipulation, alcryst id much better of a boss killer.
I think it's worth discussing that RNG in Fire Emblem isn't really ever something that can be factored out. If you have a 35% chance but then you have other things like procs for crits or doubles that could occur, it begins to stack more than just raw stats.
Although then again I'm basing this off of other RPGs, such as ParaFlinch in Pokemon. Relying on just paralysis or flinching isn't a great strategy, but relying on both inceases the chances the opponent will miss a turn.
Essentually, fine tuning RNG is a strategy, and adding another element that's in your favor to an RNG can change things. Because growths and stuff aren't also guaranteed, yes you can use items if you want them on a unit, but Alcryst will always get Luna without any assistance.
Then again Alcryst is my favorite character in the game, that's probably due to me being an anxiety riddled younger brother myself.
It's pretty easy to factor out RNG. Just get 100% hit, make sure that your attacks kill, and make sure that the enemies can't kill you even if they do hit.
This is pretty easy to do in Engage.
Lapis
IS ANYONE GONNA MENTION VANDER DOUBLE-CRITTING IN THE BACKGROUND?!?!?!?!??!
is this octopath traveler music?
I have always been of the opinion that using both in the army is a great choice. Etie has a lot of flaws but just consistently using her in my first and subsequent runs of the game she has always carried especially with lyn but doesn't need it. She does do best in warrior though not sniper, with a decent perf skill I think she could have been even better but I have found niche cases where it is useful. Al does have a pretty easy way of raising his strength tho with his perf skill
ARCHER BATTLE!
Glad you’re back Adam
Etie is stronger and has abs. So... she's better
I think that Etie is ultimately better but I do think she requires a bit more investment and really wants Lyn. She is worth the investment but Alcryst is a bit more plug and play and can make use of a different ring if u want Lyn on someone else.
Its Etie and its not close. All the early lords rely on their procs to be even passable. Timerra is trash regardless of investment (within reason) and Alcryst is too.
Meanwhile, me using both. Lol.
We need to see their stats, ability and available !!
Luna crit is more fun and that's all that matters in meta
I love Luna too much. Alcryst all the way.
I like Fogado more.
Alcryst is more fun to use but i dont think hes better
Defense is important even on archers, you never know when you get rushed in this game.
Anyways I am not playing on maddening difficulty, otherwise Etie would be better I bet
Alcryst Lyn Killer Bow. Most fun character in the game. Backflips all day.
I don't get why you're so hung up on keeping Etie a Sniper and calling her "B-Tier", when you can Reclass her to a Warrior watch her performance skyrocket. Warrior gives her enough to Bld to carry Silver weapons, improves her Spd and doubles down on her Str. She's supposed to be a raw Atk monster, not a Crit Fisher. My Etie equipped with a Silver Bow+3 sits at 51 Atk, 26 BASE Spd and more Bld than she needs. She's been an ORKO monster for the vast majority of the game and I didn't even feed her any Energy Drops nor Speedwings.
She is an amazing Unit as a Warrior and your refusal to try things out only calls the validity of these "guides" of yours into question, because you're actively giving people bad advice by relegating Etie to a "B-Tier" Unit when she can easily reach "S-Tier" with the proper setup, which you refuse to test.
Sorry, but that's a thumbs down from me for spreading misinformation.
The point of the video wasn’t to talk about best builds. I am fully aware that warrior is the best class for Etie and almost every other physical fighter in the game that you don’t want to make a Wyvern.
I was just trying to show that Etie out paces Alcryst in strength even in Sniper. Sorry I offended you so badly with my “misinformation”.
I also literally said that I think Etie is better. I don’t know why you are so upset.
Every Etie fans arguments: reclassing Etie into warrior, she is better archer than Alcryst. Great, now she is in the class where it's arguably the best landlocked class in engage with high base strength and high build (yeah warrior high base build helps A LOT to offset Etie pitiful bulid), can wield axe, and you compare her against Alcryst, a bow only unit. If you reclass her into warrior then her competitions are Pannete. Etie simps need to learn how comparing units works.
Its worth pointing out because Etie benefits from being a Warrior while Alcryst loses out. The discussion here is not whether she is the best archer in the game or the best warrior but rather whether she is the better archer. As long as Warrior can use a bow, it is also an archer class which means it is still viable for the discussion.
When the discussion changes to Etie vs Panette or who is the best Warrior, then your argument has merit but in the discussion of Etie vs Alcryst, it means nothing because Alcryst is hindered by reclassing to Warrior, losing out on his strengths to try to match Etie with her own.
@@GameAW1 it's also worth pointing out by simply reclassing to warrior is not enough. You need to give her resources, speed fixing, dex and hit fixing and for what? Becoming worst version of any warriors? Alcryst in his default unique class is enough for handling fliers, cheap and low cost while trying to fix Etie is the worst investment better going at better units
@@yohanes2034 You're really underselling Etie and even making her out to sound like one of the worst units in the game, period. Reclassing into Warrior isn't enough sure, but it is a huge step in her viability and with her extra build, allows her to use heavier weapons with no issue as well as give her a notable edge over Alcryst whom again is literally the only unit not named Etie who matters in this comparison. She pretty much only needs to be a Warrior and get the Lyn ring (at least long enough that she can inherit the speedtaker skill) and you have an archer who will only need one hit to kill most foes and quickly snowball hard and fast enough to double if needed to punch holes in tankier units, if not killing them outright as well as having axe use as a bonus, something Alcryst simply cannot feasibly do nearly as well and plays against his strengths if he tries to do so. He NEEDS to dedicate to the bow entirely and needs his dexterity and speed to be at his best.
Whether Etie is the best or not in a class or role is wholly irrelevant to the topic. The topic is between Etie and Alcryst, nobody else. Any factors about who does what better that isn't named Etie or Alcryst has no bearing on the topic. And in that conversation, Luna is Alcryst's ace in the hole but without that he falls short compared to the numbers Etie at her best can pump out every single time. Since Alcryst has ways and builds to ensure Luna will proc nearly or even outright every single time, that is the angle in which he competes against Etie. Without that, he would just be the objectively worse choice outright.
The Virgin Alcryst Advocate VS The Chad Etie Enjoyer.
Etie has always done a better job for me than Alcryst has for me personally.
After numerous runs, Etie has outperformed Alcryst every time (On randomized growths and yes, I have had them in different and same classes just to see how they do throughout my runs).
I could also bring in the point of DEF where your Bow users should not be getting hit to begin with, but everyone has different play-styles and it is just something to think about.
You played on random growths and are basing this solely on your own experience and no concrete numbers/math ok buddy
Allorys is so much better. Not even a coemption. Way better personal plus luna with Astra Storm is just plain busted.
No DLC and no special investment or attention into an archer early on: yeah Fagado/Pannete warrior is better than both. No DLC and and some early investment and use of one of Etie or Alcryst early: from the two Etie will be a more consistent phys damage throughout game. With DLC just go solo Tiki map with Etie (or Alcryst) if you want they covert and you can engrave for them not to be hit on avo heal tiles. By endgame Etie needs less in skills/ sp and abilities to do job as in OHKO than Alcryst. Just cheap accuracy fix (bow focus) and canter. Also I ironman so like guessing if Alcryst will kill with a luna proc is a big nono vs knowing exactly how much damage I am getting with Etie.
i'm guessing you don't use a crit bow with alcryst. if you have the crit bow and luna withalcryst, usualy he will ether crit or get luna. fun fact, doubleing increases your chance of haveing one shot crit or land luna. it's easy to fix the speed of alcryst.and his personal skill is easy to proc too. did someone within 2 range of him get hit? +3 damage. if you stack enough rng, it becomes a way more viable stratagy.
@@kittenfan7664 as I am in the business of ironman, I don't care about "usually" I want to know exactly what I am getting when I choose to take an action.
@@ChanceOrangeGE this is in the buisness of ironman, where you can also use every tool in your arsonal it's only 6 chapters till you get the trump card that is fogado anyway. the personal skill thing covers the gap till you get fogado.
Best answer: use neither. In all seriousness though Amber is a straight upgrade to Etie and Fogado outclasses both as a bow user. Alcryst can get Luna funnies and with Marisa S Ring can get Looney Tunes kills that only Timerra can even dream of. I gave him Wrath in my all royals run and he only failed to kill once out of the twelve or so kills including a Wyrm and Mauvier in Chapter 19 I gave him after he got Lethality (I cleared chapter 19 and clicked Warp after that.) It’s like arguing Wil v Rebecca. Both are bad and deserve to hit the bench. End of story.
Oh for sure (the wil vs rebecca comparison is a bit extreme lol) But who is better? Etie or Alcryst?
@@AdamWithFED They’re both low tier so it seems apt to me. Of the two I prefer Alcryst because it’s unlikely Etie will be getting to level 8 like you assumed. I just have other units to whom I’d rather be giving the investment pre-7 like Chloe so she can promote with the Anna paralogue Master Seal. Thus Etie will likely have leveled only once or twice so Alcryst will be better when he joins. I also like putting Leif on Alcryst for his early chapters since he joins the chapter after and Adaptable gives extra Avo to Coverts and allows him to EP on a forest or pillar which Etie can never do because her poor bulk and Engage RNG make too risky. Alcryst can even tank a little off a forest so he’s more flexible in positioning. Gun to my head I’m picking Alcryst but I don’t like either of them.