I NEVER THOUGHT AB THAT. I’d love to hear what she has to say including if you did keep the power or kept it secret or shared it. I bet if you kept it secret she wouldn’t be to happy lol
Just because the Keepers chose to avoid the ancient magic, does not justify Isidora's choices and actions. Just because someone chooses not to act, does not force anyone else to act. The existence of that magic had no harmful effect on anyone if left alone and by itself - it was not as if that magic was threatening the world through its existence and was calling for action. Isidora did all she did on her own account, by herself and for herself. Did the study of Dark Arts by all the wizards across the ages stopped Voldmort from becoming what he became? What good did it do in that regard? Nothing, it could not prevent people from becoming what they chose to become. How can you say the keepers were the real villains for not engaging with the magic? If Isidora did engage, why did she use it in a dark way? Who made her use it like that? The magic? No, herself. At that point, she would had used anything else she could access in pretty much the same way, being heavily studied before or not. It's not like the magic brainwashed her, she brainwashed herself. If I see something that is corrupting the world, then it is my duty as a human being to do all I can to stop it. But if I see something that is neutral and I have no desire to study that thing, why would it be my fault for leaving something be if others end up using a neutral force for evil ends? Sure, they may have destroyed the Portrait but for good reason: so no goblin or ill willed individual to be able to access the magic by collaborating with Isidora. Or allow an innocent being brainwashed by her like Palpatine brainwashed Anakin, and became Vader (unfortunately no one could erase Palpatine's "portrait" so Anakin cannot interact with him...) or how Ginny became "controlled" by Voldmort's diary. Being the character that she was, destroying any means of interacting with her, was justifiably of utmost importance. And making sure she died, by using the curse, was just as important. She was no longer a human being, she was a monster, experimenting on children and wanting to transform the entire world into zombies... What is there to leave alive? So she can work her way out of the trials or wait for some dark characters to approach her in Azkaban and release her to continue her work? No, characters like these, that are no longer human, cannot be contained... It's enough they had to deal with her left-behind magic, imagine having to deal with her alive as well. Instead of one uncontainable thing they would've had 2. No one forced her to act this way but her actions surely forced the keepers to react the way they did. They had no other choice. And the keepers did contain her evil, they did not use it in any way, so we have proof that their intentions were good all along. Otherwise, some of them would had been inclined to use it for themselves after she was dead.
Hogwarts Legacy is a good game, but the ending makes little sense and seems rushed. When first playing, I thought maybe we would have the chance to repair Isidora's portrait and learn about the magic to save Anne. This is clearly implied during the last main quest with Sebastian. But we don't and our choice at the end is largely irrelevant and Sebastian's storyline ends inconclusive. Not to mention, the main story ends during the winter, basically skipping half the school year. I feel like maybe they planned a bigger story but didn't have enough time. Or maybe they will expand upon it with DLC or a sequel.
I honestly hoped to talk to Isadora as well, maybe that will be ammended, probably not though, if there will be any more. And I sure wanted to help Seb and his sister. But now I can't even play the game as it is a total mess for me. Interesting thing is for my friend it is fine and i found out it is so for many people. Some have issues others have none. After the alst update I found it crashing, ancient magick emter broken, enemies broken sometimes and the lighting too, with is suddenly washing the entire screen wehn there should be little to none. LIke blinding. I'M honestly lost not to be able to play at all
If Isadora was right about one thing, it's that it is better to share and study this kind of magic. Nothing stays buried forever. The very fact that Ranrok acquired any info on the Keepers and Fig's wife found the portkey indicates as much. As for keeping the final repository under Hogwarts, I think that had more to do with being unable to destroy it safely without the negative emotions running rampant. What I find funny is the Keepers thinking the MC would follow all of their ideals and keep a kind of magic that few can see and use a secret. Even if you agree that Isadora was a complete basket case, they aren't in a position to stop you since they're dead and can only communicate through enchanted canvases. The worst they can do if you go against their wishes is give you a splinter if not a paper cut.
Exactly. The trials only prove someone is smart and powerful enough to survive and finish the trials. They don't test for a person's morality or ethics. It hinges on the "challenger" or in this case the MC to blindly believe the crafted narrative and then choose to continue keeping it a secret. Since the Keepers are so bent on "secrecy", they made the mistake of involving Isadora in the first place. The knowledge should have died with them if they didn't intend on researching or exploring the ancient magic further.
This is true. I think instead of trying to destory it and ignore its existence it would habe been so much better to Support Isadora and SAVELY study this magic to know the good and bad about it. They could have chanhed the whole history probably
By the time Isidora was killed, Avada Kedavra wasn't unforgivable yet. According Dumbledore, the death curse became classified as unforgivable by the Wizarding World in 1717 along with the two other curses.
@@TheFuronMothership @SuperSpider Studios exactly, so op mentioning its not an unforgivable yet is false, the avada kedavra is indeed unforgivable at the time But i argue its use here isnt cold blooded as the video suggest
@@wavestrider2160 The Wiki Potter says she was a professor at hogwarts by the 15th or 16th century so when she was killed, it was not an unforgivable curse yet. Edit: the game makes clear that the keepers story happened a few centuries before the hogwarts legacy events take place.
Yeah the keepers always thru me off, I also didn't like how they never seem to communicate amongst themselves, by the time Keeper San bakkar shows up he should be VERY different towards us. He says " I dont trust you " like bruh I dont trust YOU
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Right? And then you watch his memory and he killed Isidora... This last guardian is so shady.
@@christopher2684 actually one of them looks at him like wtf did you just do!
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@@alessandropezzoli9717 the point is that San Bakar wansn't different than Isadora. He solved the problem choosing the easy solution, and what is worse, they silenced her, so we only can see the Keepers version of the story.
There’s a very interesting parallel between Solomon Sallow’s reaction to Sabastian’s exploration of Dark Magic and the Keeper’s reaction to Isadora’s use of Ancient Magic. Both have a very set idea of how certain magics should be used and how they should not. I think, in both cases, had the mentor guided the students in their exploration of new uses of magic, they may not have felt the need to go as far as they did. After all the game itself mentions magic is just a tool in the intro- what matters is how it is used. Also, are we sure the Keepers actually want us passing their “trials”? Or are the “trials” just there to try to kill anyone who could possibly discover their secrets? The only trial that really seemed to “teach” something was the Deathly Hallows one, and even that one was super dangerous for the MC. Even the very first one in Gringots was just “here’s some giant guardian statues; hope you survive! Oh, you know like two spells? Guess it s*cks to be you!”
And there is also a parallel to Sebastian and Isidora. Both have an ailing family member, and both wanted to do anything to relieve their loved one of the pain. And both Sebastian and Isidora won't hesitate to go to the extremes, even if it means severing ties with someone close to them (Sebastian to his uncle, Isidora to the Keepers).
I hated the deathly Hallow trial, and if I may ask, what did it teach? Because I got nothing but a blasted headache from staring at so much black and white for that long.
@@mightymouse8134 To me the trial told the story of trying desperately to escape death, eventually accepting it, then in doing so conquering it. Kind of the same lesson Harry had to learn to master the Deathly Hallows in the books. I can see how the art style might bother you, but I thought it was beautiful. And, to my original point, it was meant to teach the character about accepting that there are certain inevitabilities, and that it’s only through accepting those inevitabilities that we conquer. This is to caution against trying to avoid the inevitable, like Isadora did. Not sure how much I agree. But I think that was the lesson.
I disagree with that idea. Darkness is a plague, trying to undo creation and beauty and light. It was never meant to exist. It’s a sickness, A disease, It’s Death. For Isadora’s father, I believe all that he needed was therapy, really just a way to move on. He can only let go if he is willing to accept the help and get help. Sometimes you don’t NEED magic. The best answer are sometimes the most non magical ones to ever exist. Plus I believe that the Keepers were reckless and could have peacefully avoided conflict with Isadora like Sebastian and Solomon. Through talking and peaceful open communication and honesty, not being dominant and closed minded like Solomon did with Sebastian. (Wanna close by pointing out that Sebastian tried other ways to heal Anne WITHOUT Dark Arts. Remember the Shrivelfig? That is a potion ingredient. He was trying other ways but Solomon was not hearing it. Sebastian was trying to be a doctor and could have come up with new cures but Solomon was being stubborn and accept an old time traditional reality that doesn’t reflect what today [the modern time in the story].)
Apparently the portraits were enchanted with anti-spoillio spell. Thats why they deflect your questions and instruct you to complete the trials instead.
I noticed this on my first play through that they never wanted us the player to have anything to do with this magic. But I couldn’t understand why wouldn’t they help teach us about it or help us grow…. “Oh you have this ability that’s helpful? Yeah you shouldn’t use this at all what so ever it’s dangerous because we can’t use it.”
The keepers may be biased narators but isadora's penchant for forging ahead with abandon is in stark contrast to their restricted containment of knowledge and the pursuit of power. They had respect for power while she had a thirst for power that blinded her to its corruption. Sebastien's story ark was a microcosm of the game in that Sebastien ended up destroying everything around him (including himself) in order to save the thing he held most dear.
I agree with your observation about Sebastian, and I'm glad to see that someone else picked up on it. But in both Sebastian and Isidora's cases, issues arose when power corrupted their good intentions. The Keepers see no middle ground to this, and are overly conservative. A real world parallel would be something like stem cell research. Sure, there are potentially unethical things that can arise from it, but that doesn't mean we ignore it and lock it away forever. Instead, we teach researchers proper ethics and find ways to use the science for genuine good, such as helping people with lost limbs. For all we know, there might be a way to use ancient magic to mitigate someone's pain without entirely removing it and making them a husk. That's why my Ravenclaw character decided to take the power, to study it and find out its true nature. Then, she'll decide whether to release information of it to the rest of the wizarding world. To me, that is the morally correct answer.
@@charismacaster2429 you're view on stem cell research is skewed. You've been lead to believe that because the Catholic church opposes uses human embryos for stem cell research that they oppose all stem cell research. But in fact, the Church supports ethically responsible stem cell research, while opposing any research that exploits or destroys human embryos. Because the Church opposes deliberately destroying innocent human life at any stage, for research or any other purpose, it opposes embryonic stem cell research as currently conducted.
@@charismacaster2429 the keepers are just like Solomon Sallow, refusing to see any possible use of dark magic. The use of unforgivable curses are absolutely unforgivable no matter the circumstances, even to the point that he is willing to attack the player and Sebastien rather than offer any sort of help. I mean an ex-auror attacks two Hogwarts students while trying to fend off a horde of inferi? Does that not sound just as crazy? No consideration for circumstances, he just instantly judges us as the greater threat. Also this theme holds for Ranrok as well. If you recall how he came to hate wizardkind, it was because he was interested in dragons and tried to approach a wizard, thinking that offering the wizard his dropped wand would be a way to break the ice. Instead, the wizard instantly judges him as the greatest threat and attacks him on sight. No consideration for circumstances. A goblin with a wand is an absolute threat, there can be no other reason.
There is even a parallel when you step back and pay attention to sebastians story. He went down a path with good intentions, but lost himself to the allure of unknown magics in a pursuit to fix his sister. Much like isadora trying to relieve her father from his pain.
@@charismacaster2429 I think people could argue that at the root of stem cell research is a desire to “play god” that’s why no matter how u put it or go about doing it, in my opinion I think it’s a complex matter. I know back then we didn’t have cars and maybe people thought building cars was bad too, bad comparison, but I do wanna be clear that I could be mixing up science and religion but I’m trying to say there is a certain point in science, where we continue to alter the natural way of things. The invention of glasses is phenomenal. But it’s allowed many of us “under equipped” with vision. To be able to stand with the crowd. In reality tho people that use the are blind as a bat. If it serves a need I guess it’s relevant. I don’t think we need to eradicate cancer or disease. Cause the where will our doctors go, our optometrist? If we figured a way to manipulate our bodies to collect moisture In the air so we where never thirsty again? Sounds incredible but what will happend to the things like Coca Cola and them yummy tropicana juices u sip on. They will eventually be gone I feel. So I guess that’s why we keep the power maintained, cause if not this world would eventually go to 💩 or maybe just get real boring because no one will have issues or problems, just living life very secular.
Reminds me of what Palpatine said to Anakin in Star wars. "If one is to understand the great mystery, one must understand all aspects. Not just the norrow minded view of the Jedi".
I wish you could have actually spoke to her through her portrait. Would have giving us the other half of the argument, and let us actually make a decision
Watching a memory is not having a conversation with her. Yes you got to make a decision at the end, but hearing more on her perspective and actions from her would have been nice. Not a skewed narrative from one of the parties involved
Exactly - transmuting/transfiguring the pain into joy. Not simply removing it, to leave an empty space. She became an emotional vampire. She really just didn't want to face her own pain of watching her loved one be in pain.
It's an awesome game, but their "trials" make no sense. All the "trials" do is prove you're a good fighter and can solve puzzles. That does nothing to prove you are trustworthy enough to become the guardian of powerful and dangerous magic.
personally i always viewed the ”trials” as something they never expected anybody at that time to pass, hell some of the places your sent aren’t exactly built for a students thought process of magic, like the rooms where you have to pass through an arch in a certain way just to get through, like would a normal Hogwarts student even assume that’s even and option more-so during a duel with giant statues? sorta like how the shop quest line owner seems to think you’d escape the haunted dungeon but be driven mad and sent to st. mungos and when you do she decides to try and kill you and the officer you bring to talk with her.
Isidora reminds me of Anakin and the Keepers are like a Jedi Council. After I saw the connection I chose the "dark" path, those boomers should stay dead and stop messing with the future.
Hell Anakin's destiny was never to destroy the Dark side but bring balance to the force the Jedi got arrogant and change came bout through the dark side until they got arrogant and light came back through luke with changes being made for the jedi
Did anyone notice there's something odd with Isadora's own flashback? Right before the moment her father says thank you, the memory seems to glitch... false memory?
Isidora truly proves that the idiom "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" holds true. Its okay to want to take away pain from someone truly suffering- the physical part at least. But emotionally? No. Pain makes us human. It allows us to grow and evolve both collectively and individually. Without it, well, we would never truly appriceate the good that comes with the bad. "There are no shadows without light and light without shadows." Balance, Isidora. Perhaps if the keepers had sat Isidora down as a child they could have set her down a very different path. Or not. We'll never know now, will we?
Pain doesn't make us human. I'm a Antinatalist and am against any kind of procreation aka birth as that is inflicting pain and suffering onto innocent sentient beings.
@@Whocares158 I'm an antinatalist too, but we have to agree that pain and love are both the most powerful forces to change... And since we live in a society, the latter is far more normal. Pain is human because sometimes we humans inflict on each other without even knowing. It's a force of change and one of the most powerful teachers of life. Pain set us clear boundaries and a world without pain would be impossible. Not having a child is freeing them of pain? Sure, but it's paradoxical since they lever lived in the first place. There are better motives to being antinatalist, like not really thinking parenthood is out purpose in life, self evaluation, a desire to be free to live the world the way you like, overpopulation exploits of the richest half, etc. But freeing someone that didn't even live of pain is not one. Pain is human.
@@Whocares158 that a fancy word for coward and sadist. Pain teaches us of the world the good and the bad. Isadora was onto something but she found something that worked in the short term. Pain is a force of nature and is needed Isadora went of the deep end and it was all avoidable at many point in her life the keepers didnt do shit didn't sit her down tell her WHY taking pain is bad. they Seemed to egg her on as if trying to make her take the bad route with nudges here and there. they wanted an excuse to be rid of her.
Isidora’s a mistake is she started testing in students who the keepers are responsible for. Her father was one thing cause she was already dead inside and keepers were just disturbed but they didn’t stop her. Isidora lost it eventually and she had to be put down.
this one line from Rackkam stuck with me while playing. In his memory he tells Isidora that her father's pain is not hers to take, which ultimately leads Isidora down her path. He never gave an explanation for that though. Why was his pain not hers to take? My theory/guess is that Rackham thought his words were enough. Pain is not something easy to get over, especially loss. And some, like Isidora's father, live with it for the rest of their lives. But pain is apart of us and it is up to us to move on from it. I know we all wish we could take the pain from a loved one so they don't suffer but its not ours to take. They have to make the decision to move forward and heal. By taking away his pain, Isidora left her father with no way to heal, no way to look back at the tragedy that plagued him for so long and come to terms with it. My guess is she also did this multiple times to her father which is why he became an emotionless husk, no better than when she first took his pain. (I wonder if a Cheering Charm would have been a potential option to help her father or if Isidora might have used it as a basis for her pain removal spell) Prof Fitzgerald reacts as if something personal was taken when Isidora attempts to take her pain. And then Isidora inhales it seemingly getting a buzz off it, yeah she was unhinged by that point. That said, I do think the Keepers went about things the wrong way. Instead of trying to hide this power, they should have studied, researched and refined what Isidora started and maybe find a way to do what Isidora was but with less destructive consequences. But they should have also tried to reason and understand what Isidora was doing the night she first demonstrated on her father. They might have reaached an understanding or might have been able to convince her that it was too dangerous to continue without more study. By the time they confronted her beneath Hogwarts, it was too late and the only option they had left was to kill Isidora. Were the Keepers the real villains? I don't think so but I don't agree with how they went about things. and I would have loved to have been able to talk to Isidora's portrait and learn more on her side at the very least to help Sebastian and Anne, potentially subverting the outcome for the Sallow family.
I agree with this, they should have taken the centuries before the next ancient magic user to study, refine and understand to their best ability the ancient magic instead though they limit every avenue of its use, only Professor Rookwood seemed to be more on board about bolstering you, the MC’s, ancient magic, it’s clear the keepers don’t want anyone else to have ancient magic unless it’s their views on it. I also would have liked to talk with Isadoras portrait
@@UhmActually1 TL DR Pain is not for us to take, it is us to heal from them, pain is on our life, if it is taken, then we lost our way to heal. That's bad. Keepers should've taught Isidora on how to use her powers more less destructive.
Studying what she was doing wasn't the way to go, hell if she was really worried about taking away the pain use the Obliviate and wipe the memory of the son from his mind. But that would be wrong because it is taking his memories away from him, but at least it wouldn't have left him a husk.
They should have talked. They could have found anotger solution with 5 minds working on it. Something like take the pain, out them in goblinsilver pendants and give it back to its owner in smaller amounts. That way its still with the owner and they have less pain at a time allowing them to heal. Surely there would have been enough things possible. Maybe using the magic would make it run out instead of having it lay arount for villains to use.
As someone who completed the story and chose to seal the magic, I didn't do it for the sake of the Keepers and if given the option to use this power again once I've learned more about it I would. I even said I would share it with my closest allies (Natty, Poppy, Ominis, and Everett) later in life. The Keepers should have tried reasoning with Isadora more before they killed her.
You are aware that irl if someone were to steal people's emotions the authority wouldn't "reason with them" they're going to straight up arrest/kill them, because what they're doing is wrong and can't be excused so "reasoning" with Isidora when she clearly is starting to lose it wouldn't have worked, maybe it would've before she started absorbing ancient magic.
Game plot breaks down to: keepers have the power to end human suffering but refuse to remotely try, so when Isidora proves them wrong they use an Unforgivable Curse to silence her.
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Isadora had the female teacher in a neutral/in favor position at the beginning, but Isadora crossed a line using ancient magic on her teacher without consent. Isadora began her journey with good intentions, but her quest for helping others turn into a quest for power and only for power. The keepers are too hesitant/careful, but not villains.
They are not evil I 100% agree, they were simply too afraid of the power isadora was wielding and feard the damage it could cause. Thus they don't want to unleash it even if it can do more good than harm.
It feels like they had the two endings be seal and release and the release was supposed to have you look at isadoras portrait and it seems like all the companion quests were supposed to tie into the main quest more and a sliding ending like me2. But I bet they “ran out of time”
Right?! I mean really what did they REALLY tell you anyway?... that taking pain from others is bad and they dont know what that red stuff is. Oh and no one should use ancient magic...(for good or bad). That's it.
That's what I wanted to do at first, but then I got to thinking about sebastian's request to learn ancient magic to try and save his sister Anne. But as we're told in the pensine that this would render the person emotionless, I was afraid it would be the same for Anne. So I didn't take the power for myself.. but in the end it was all for nothing as we couldn't even see Anne again
You completely misunderstood the story. They weren’t against ancient magic. She was using ancient magic to steal negative energy and emotions and THAT magic is what Ramrock was using and what she was inhaling and growing power hungry on, basically the “dark side of the force”. She syphoned emotions and energy from her own father and made him a mindless zombie, then she started feeding off of her students. I don’t think you actually played the game, I think you just took other people’s clips and made assumptions from there.
I do agree with you, those two big guards proved useless because our character had to find the wand to get past them, the baddies didn't pass them at all. As for the secret, there must have been loads of miners and other support staff who now know where it is. The next baddy (wizard or dwarf) can just wander in avoiding the guards on our character's day off, and they have won.
The true villains in this game are the writers who gave us such a bland and uninteresting main story, bland and uninteresting character dialogue interactions, and a total lack of consequences for the choices we make in game. The only decent storyline was the non-essential secondary Dark Arts quest line. Everything else was meh… too bad JKR had no involvement in the making of this game, because if she had been involved we might have gotten an RPG to rival the greats like Witcher 3, Deus Ex, or Mass Effect.
I had the same feeling all through the game. Why is it so bad to study, and learn to control this ancient magic? I mean, if you could control it more, you could take away people's current pain, like reset it to zero, without touching any of the other emotions. How can that be a bad thing? Also, as you said, if you don't learn to use and control it, someone else inevitably will. Maybe someone with evil intents. How tf are you going to defend yourself or your species against that evil someone, if you have no idea how it works, or how to control it!! It makes very little sense to just try and hide it!! And think about it, that ancient magic was created by someone in the past. Even if you hide yours, how do you know someone else will not find out how to create it ever again? Or maybe even a worse version of it? Shouldn't you learn how to use and control it, in the event someone else creates something similar? Like, imagine if the west first got some gunpowder from the east, and realizing the potential to use it for evil, they decided to just hide it, and just carry on with swords etc. At some point the Chinese would reach the west, and finding them still using just swords etc, the west would have been crushed faster than you can say what's that weird banging sound? No, you should use it, find better ways to use it, find ways to defend against it, because you will inevitably be faced with it again some time in the future. So hiding that ancient magic makes no logical sense at all. In fact it would be incredibly stupid NOT to use it, and study it to the max.
It was really interesting because the last keeper was basically trying to put the MC through a purity test even though he used Avada kedavra on Isidora and with the intent of the (even tho it wasn't deemed unforgivable yet) unforgivable curses, imo his credibility flew out the window for me in a how does he think he can judge MC and act high and mighty. On one hand I can see that Isidora was trying to help people by taking away their pain. But on the other hand she went too far when she believed that it was for the best of people and the world whether they liked it or not. Then again, I do wonder what would have happened if the MC tried to use the ancient magic on Anne. Maybe it's because it was a side quest but Sebastian asked the MC to talk to the keepers about using the magic to cure Anne and they just....didn't? And it's not mentioned again? It's possible that by taking Anne's pain that it would have taken all of her emotions. But it's also possible that it could have broken the curse placed on her and things could have been sunshine and rainbows. (I'm also wondering how and why the curse is still on Anne esp after you kill Rookwood)
That part of the story was a bit annoying. Taking Anne's pain (or at least considering it) seemed to be the obvious culmination of Sebastian's story. Unfortunately it's never even talked about. Maybe our character could have used it in this one case without turning into Isadora. Knowing the dangers would give us a big advantage.
@@stevenkoo2294 But that's the point, what stops the MC from taking the curse itself out of her with ancient magic like Isidora did with pain and emotions? If you can take those out than surely you can take out the magic which is the root for the curse to work,. it's very possible and a very good application of what Isidora was trying to study... if possibilities like that exists there was so much good that the MC could possibly do
I feel like the Game needed to better Define what Ancient Magic was and what it could do more thoroughly as it didn't seem to have a consistent theme. What isadora did was something completely new for the time. I think that They really could have been more clear and explain what Ancient magic does instead of just saying 'pass my trial to see this person who abused the power you have' and Isadora also being a 5th year feels like it devalues you coming to Hogwarts as a 5th year.
Rackham was also a 5th year when he started. I think it's just an ancient magic thing. Like for some reason it suppresses a Wizards magic until they turn 15 or so.
@@stevenhiggins3055 I also hate that. It should have been that we were the only 5th year now it feels cheapened by having 5 other people start as 5th years.
@@lockskelington314 3 Percival, Isidora and you. Percival and Isidora were presumably decades apart as he was already white haired when she was a child and you're born centuries later. As they say at the start Fig and George have never even heard of someone starting Hogwarts as a 5th year so they've even forgotten the other two who were once Hogwarts professors.
The keepers certainly were a frustrating lot to talk to, but I do not believe they can be called villains - just overly cryptic and slightly too arrogant. They saw the very real danger of the magic and sought to keep it safe. If you were to discover nuclear power, would you seek to keep that safe or tell everyone with the right tools how to build a mini-nuke in the back yard? Yes, this is a bit of a false dichotomy, and I agree that further study may well have been wise, *but* even with further study, it should be clandestine to prevent it falling into the wrong hands. And your argument about it inevitably being discovered doesn't hold on two levels. 1) they had little reason to believe it inevitable - that conclusion is made from hindsight. 2) even if it eventually happened (as it did), think of the amount of Isadoras or even worse that this secrecy may well have saved the world from. In short, their actions, most likely, resulted in reduced harm overall. And a note on Isadora: I believe she was genuinely convinced she was doing the right thing - but her motivation is irrelevant, as her good intentions still ultimately led to the proverbial hell; and consequences are what matter most. Her use of the magic leaving people as emotionless husks was also unnecessary. In The Deathly Hallows, we see Hermione, a student, effectively delete her own existence from her parents' minds with strong obliviation magic. The same could have been done to Mr. Morganach. I believe it is such tunnel-vision and lack of thought on different solutions and caution as displayed in Isadora (and later in Sebastian) that, correctly in my opinion, led the Keepers to guard it. This lack of perspective for alternative solutions is also why I find Sebastian's attempted defence of his use of Avada Kedavra and the Imperius curse so weak: he had other very viable options of handling the situation, but he opted for literal mind control and forced "game-overing" of the goblin and cold murder of an unarmed man who was no longer an immediate threat. With the goblin alone I can count five spells from the top of my head that even the main character on their first year in school could use to stop that situation (I could count more, such as accio, if we used the game's mechanics and not general lore). It is also a very worrying sign that his instinct was to go for the unforgivables rather than more conventional spells. A last note, as others have pointed out, San's curse was not yet considered unforgivable (based on their clothes, they're living at least a century before that law), and the Keepers were actually engaged in a lethal battle. Should he have done it? I'd lean towards no, but at least he'd have a leg to stand on
I definitely was pretty shockd when the keeper used Avada Kedavra on her. But I was expecting the other keepers to be mad at him and blame him for his actions, but no they just went with it. Like... come on, there were many other spells he could have used (He even could have used imperio to stop her from seeking more ancient magic)
The killing curse was the better option in truth. It's the most humane way to kill someone and the other keepers still cared about her to some extent; they likely would've reacted differently if Bakkar had killed her by carving her up like a turkey or by torching her alive and melting the flesh off of her bones. Isidora was too strongwilled for imperio to last long if it even worked on her at all. That's without factoring in that she was magically enhanced at the time. Certain spells might have no effect on her because of that.
@@snintendog They did not. Rakham started with Expelliarmus and that was followed with a priori incantatem powerstruggle after Isadora's retalliation. The colour of Rkham's follow-up also resembles in-game stupefy; again a non-lethal attack. And Bakkar ends it with AK shortly after.
You made a pretty bold statement backed only by the Keepers being vague and secretive, of knowledge that actually belongs to them have you. We agree Isadora was a nutcase so why wouldn't the Keepers be weary of the only other person with their power who they don't know and is literally a child. Your claim is based off of what we know not what the Keepers would know at the time. Maybe you're the REAL VILLAIN Big Dan Gaming.
I chose the "evil" ending because I agreed with basically everything you said lol. Also, I wanted to use the full power of ancient magic which they wouldn't let me do anyways so -_-
I did good ending with other 3 (2 didn't complete yet, but did Gryffindor 100%) but with Slytherin i did evil ending (done 100%). All excluded cave puzzles, not important for 100%.
@@michaelmorehouse6027 I'd figured. That said, I feel like Ancient Magic really needs to be expounded on. Seems like powerful magic that could cause the end of humanity imo lol
Just because the Keepers chose to avoid the ancient magic, does not justify Isidora's choices and actions. Just because someone chooses not to act, does not force anyone else to act. The existence of that magic had no harmful effect on anyone if left alone and by itself - it was not as if that magic was threatening the world through its existence and was calling for action. Isidora did all she did on her own account, by herself and for herself. Did the study of Dark Arts by all the wizards across the ages stopped Voldmort from becoming what he became? What good did it do in that regard? Nothing, it could not prevent people from becoming what they chose to become. How can you say the keepers were the real villains for not engaging with the magic? If Isidora did engage, why did she use it in a dark way? Who made her use it like that? The magic? No, herself. At that point, she would had used anything else she could access in pretty much the same way, being heavily studied before or not. It's not like the magic brainwashed her, she brainwashed herself. If I see something that is corrupting the world, then it is my duty as a human being to do all I can to stop it. But if I see something that is neutral and I have no desire to study that thing, why would it be my fault for leaving something be if others end up using a neutral force for evil ends? Sure, they may have destroyed the Portrait but for good reason: so no goblin or ill willed individual to be able to access the magic by collaborating with Isidora. Or allow an innocent being brainwashed by her like Palpatine brainwashed Anakin, and became Vader (unfortunately no one could erase Palpatine's "portrait" so Anakin cannot interact with him...) or how Ginny became "controlled" by Voldmort's diary. Being the character that she was, destroying any means of interacting with her, was justifiably of utmost importance. And making sure she died, by using the curse, was just as important. She was no longer a human being, she was a monster, experimenting on children and wanting to transform the entire world into zombies... What is there to leave alive? So she can work her way out of the trials or wait for some dark characters to approach her in Azkaban and release her to continue her work? No, characters like these, that are no longer human, cannot be contained... It's enough they had to deal with her left-behind magic, imagine having to deal with her alive as well. Instead of one uncontainable thing they would've had 2. No one forced her to act this way but her actions surely forced the keepers to react the way they did. They had no other choice. And the keepers did contain her evil, they did not use it in any way, so we have proof that their intentions were good all along. Otherwise, some of them would had been inclined to use it for themselves after she was dead.
All the story itself and Sebastian questline showed me that there will be a DLC later on. This story not finished yet, and remember. When you finish the main story it was winter, its like skipping the other remaining half of the school year, we dont know what happens to Anne later and there is an another sign for a DLC, the Quidditch, which has been canceled but only for that year, when we doing the main storiline. Other signs is that we only know a 10% of the potions and spells in the game, and there is 2 other spells which Dark Wizards using against us but we cant. The ranged "Petrificus Totalus" and the "Reducto". Also, about the map... We dont have the option to go to the Diagon Alley. A lot of things points towards a DLC for later on which is planned. it is planned but the developers need to release the game first for old gen and then fix the bugs etc.
When you finish the main story, it was already spring going to summer and you're about to win the house cup. So technically, at the end of the game the school term is already over.
A ranged Pertificus Totalus for the player that could insta-kill most enemies seems a bit OP but they could balance it out by giving it a long cooldown of like 20 seconds.
Most of the arguments are pretty subjective, since the extremely shortened memories through the Pensieves leave almost everything out, but the last is the most important: the Keepers believed the Ancient Magic was effectively a dirty nuke, and the Keepers preserved it instead of trying to defuse it, or preparing the way for a future wizard to defuse it. As Far As I Can Tell, during the game Ranrok used up at least 2 Repositories worth of this "dirty nuke" magic, and since he had no means of creating more, his rebellion was doomed to failure after using it all up!
I also notice how they never explained fully why people with Ancient Magic power join as a fifth years. I may have missed something but the explanation I got is basically that is how the Keeper and Isadora joined Hogwarts and now we should.
Maybe they dont have accidental magic. You have to will it enough or the owners can only use it through a wand wich makes it not show up without a foci
Yeah, I was kind of annoyed with how many times it's mentioned that we joined as a fifth year, but they gave no explanation. We also never attended Professor Figs' class, like what does he even teach?
I understand that Isidora was a danger, and I understand that she needed to be stopped. But it upset me to see how quickly she was killed. And then the Keepers destroyed nearly everything she left behind and silenced her, since I'm sure they destroyed Isidora's portrait. I wish we knew more about the story from Isidora's perspective. I admire that she was able to set up a trial of her own, so elaborate that even the Keepers couldn't find it, so we could see at least one memory from her perspective. Sure, we probably shouldn't follow in Isidora's footsteps, but it would have been nice to know her side of the story. It is so important to know all side of the story before making a decision. The Keepers' trust issues are not there for no reason, but they stripped that choice from us. I agreed with Sebastian when he basically pointed out that the Keepers weren't giving us enough information. He was the one to bring up that we should know the story from Isidora's perspective. I'm not entirely sure, but I think according to canon, Pensieve memories are biased, as they're shown from the perspective of the people who put them there. I completely agree that had the Keepers been more open to the study of Ancient Magic, and actually tried talking to Isidora about how far they could go, all that drama under Hogwarts could have been avoided. And you know who else mirrors this situation? Sebastian and Solomon.
@@biornr.4031 That's exactly what happened and explained in the game. While at the moment Isidora's father felt relieved when his pain was removed. Due to the lack of pain, there's no joy to be had as well, as pain and joy are two sides of the same coin. Removing one, will remove the other. And Isidora's father end up like a vegetable, unable to feel anything.
This is clearly bait. You can't possibly have reached that conclusion after playing the game. 1- The keepers weren't against the use of ancient magic, they just didn't liked the idea of messing with pain and emotions. Accepting suffering as a part of what life is, is an important part of the Harry Potter universe, lore, ethos (?). Harry had to accept death to be able to defeat Voldemort, Voldemort did unspeakable things because he didn't accepted an important part of life (death). Same thing with Isadora. 2- We are shown the keepers using ancient magic in almost all of their memories. They saved Isadora's village from the draught using it. That's why she says she saw swirls of magic all around that day.Those swirls are not of regular magic origin, they are ancient magic swirls, Professor Fig explains this to you during the opening mission. 3- You can't say that The keepers aren't realiable, but then accept that Isadora did wrong because of what's shown in Bakar's memory. (her father turning a husk of his former self). 4- What's stored in the repository isn't just ancient magic. It's whatever Isadora took from the students of Hogwarts. 5- You aren't expected to rely only on what the keepers shown you. You are shown proof of how bad that stored thing is throughout the game, Ranrok is using it to control dragons, his minions and possibly even turning some fauna more violent. (as stated by Poppy in the way to Horntail Hall). 6- Avada Kedavra was perfectly legal and not an unforgivable curse the time Bakar used it. They are from the 15th century, the unforgivables became unforgivables around the 1700s. 7- The trials were designed to be completed over a longer period of time, the keepers had to rush it because of the threat Ranrok represented. They made it abundantly clear that was the case. That's why they are insufferable.
The keepers did use magic to save isadoras hamlet so that proves that they did use ancient magic for good. I think they were right to be cautious because if isadora never created a spell to remove emotion everything would have continued the way it had been with using ancient magic only for small things. I have to agree with Niamh when she said that just because we can do things doesn’t always mean we should. It’s horrible everybody is in some kind of pain for example I have debilitating daily chronic migraines , but if I had to choose to either be who I am and have my emotions or be pain free and a zombie, I’ll choose the pain and keep my emotions. What isadora was trying to do starting out was was good intentional but I felt the story proved with isadora why Rackham was cautious. Maybe it’s because I’m the odd ball out, I’m an extremely cautious person when it comes to power and inventions and I think we always have to think through pros and cons and I felt Isadora didn’t even try to think about why the keepers were so cautious she was so set on curing her father never stopping to think of the ramifications and consequences of taking part of him. It’s horrible he was so depressed he became mute, but I just don’t think it was her burden to take. She already took care of him and I think that’s all that she should have done. I’ve dealt with depression myself, but we all have burdens to bear and we can let them break us or make us who we are as stronger people and help to encourage others. Maybe it’s just cause I’m a gryffindor/hufflepuff but that’s just my take because I’ve seen a lot of people hate on the keepers and I was so baffled
I think the Keepers did use ancient magic to help with the drought and help people by altering the physical world while drawing the line at messing with emotions and pain. In defense of San Bakar, I think he reacted to thinking Maeve had been killed, because he had a look of regret (I think) when he realized she was alive. Coupled with the fact that Avada Kadavra wasn't unforgivable at that time, it's not as bad. It doesn't make it pure and good either of course, but I think it sets it in context as grey area. Also he had just found her husk of a father and then learned she was doing the same thing to his students...possibly against their will as she had shown a willingness to do that to Maeve earlier. Again, not making his decision all sunshine and rainbows, but it does make him appear to me to have made a more emotional and clouded choice to shoot to kill, rather than a sinister murderer.
In the end, I don't think the story makes them villains, but it doesn't make them pure hearted angels either. A lot of the lessons in the Wizarding World tend to end in the lesson that people are people, and make choices because they are people, less than because they are good or bad. They're just people being people.
I think and mind this is a theory he was probably in love with Maeve so when he thought Isodra had killed her he reacted like any person would when they think their loved one is dead and their friends are in danger.
Nothing Isidora could say will justify using her students as test experiments. She's no better than Voldemort. The only difference is, atleast Voldemort was honest for his thirst for power. The only regret i have is i didnt avada her.
I disagree with your opinion mate! Isidora is the actual reason why the keepers don’t trust anyone with this ancient magic power! She used this knowledge on students! Without knowing the side effects and also she was consuming the stored pain to became more powerful which was an indication that she was corrupted already
i mean they did good with it. Isadora turned a ton of people into husks. i think she was mad with it, she was inhaling it. and they didn’t murder her, isadora attacked them. your doing exactly what you say the keepers did. you are creating a narrative that goes against what a large portion of the game is telling as the main story
Just going to point out that being apprehensive about studying something you know has immense potential for danger doesn't make you a villain, nor does presenting a biased account of events... ALL personal accounts of events are biased in some form, nor does killing an observably dangerous witch whose motivation would be very compelling to an adolescent student, given they're still going to be in the throes of puberty, and as such, wouldn't want them to follow the same line of thinking by having said student have unbridled access to the innermost mental machinations of a deranged lunatic. In other words, none of what you've said is in any way villainous behaviour, just understandable and necessary methods of minimizing the risk of ANOTHER Isidorah Morganach.
Its like people half grasped the whole thing. Yes the keepers were wrong for hiding it, but they were right. Isadoras actions followed the EXACT path they said it would. If not for our character existing Ranrok would have won. Or if we could ACTUALLY be evil in the game.
I experienced quite a bit of ludonarrative dissonance as Isadora's story unfolded, because I had just spent the entire game absorbing "ancient magic" (do wizards not believe in naming things?) by attacking complete strangers so that I could literally disintegrate other strangers. By comparison, Isadora's misuse of this form of magic seems pretty tame. I'm hurting people to absorb the magic that I then use to hurt or kill more people, while she's healing someone in order to use that magic but simply doesn't realize that the cure is worse than the disease. Moreover, is there no one at St. Mungo's who would have been helped by this magic despite the risks? Seriously? Isn't it at least worth giving it a try? If you can take someone's pain away, wouldn't that make an effective counter to the Cruciatus curse? It's like the Keepers weren't even curious about it at all, all of their actions were driven entirely by fear.
I know your post is a year old, but yes their actions were entirely driven by fear, I expected much better of magical educators on progressing branches of magic. All the keepers proved is that they can't be trusted, their trials were farcical & they didn't teach us anything about our power. They wanted us to listen to their every word view Isadora as aunhinged villain that desvered to be put down & complete their nonsensical sanctimonious tests just so they could dump responsability of a magical bomb on a 15 year old. Look at bakar ignoring a current threat day just because he insited on us to complete is tedious trial he's a massive hypocrite & a pompous basterd.
I figured the keepers destroyed the painting. But... from what i can gather, the keepers used ancient magic to save feldcrodt, which is why Isadora saw traces of it fucking everywhere afterwards, which she later conveyed to Rookwood. The keepers werent just sitting on their asses with this magic. They knew how to use it. But they also knew that there was so much potential damage that could be done, so... caution makes sense. Isadora demonstrated how much damage could be done with it, and she doesnt even realize it. I get why Isadora took the actions she did. She just wanted to help heal the pain of others. But she never considered the consequences, or how far too far would be. As Rackham said "Its not your pain to take". And Fitzgerald expanded upon with "There is no light without shadow. Just because you can take away pain, doesnt always mean that you should." Perhaps after the main game, after everything, the intent was for you to have an open and completely honest conversation about all of this. The repository is safe. And now you have a counsel of people who know as much as is known about it to the world. You could discuss all of it. If it can heal dark magic curses without touching emotions. If there is any way to know what sorts of pain you should be able to take, and whats off limits. If any. Other uses for this ancient magic that they havent explored. The map chamber being a safe environment to test this stuff out without hurting anyone. Maybe this is the keeper's intention. Now that they know, that you understand the gravity of such power, the true training and teaching can begin.
When Isidora was killed, *Avada Kedavra wasn't unforgivable yet* . As per Wizarding world wiki , the death curse classified as unforgivable by the *Ministry of Magic in 1717* along with the two other curses. The keepers and Isidora timeline was 2 to 3 centuries back with respect to Hogwarts Legacy which is taking place in *1890-1891* . Still I liked Sebastian shallow more engaging .Hope they release DLC in this regard
My first playthrough I didnt take the power, but on my second one I did. After much thought I felt that it was good to take it because as isadora said "in the right hands it can be used for good." And obviously to me my character is good and has big things a head of them, its right that they get the power. My other reasons for taking it was because 1) I thought about the student who came after my character (stupid I know) but what if they would use it for bad? (Dont ask me why I though about the "future" for a game choice LOL) 2) as professor fig said the people that died because of it, and in my opinion I thought it as "the ones who died for it." Because his wife and the one that dies by the dragon made it their life work to find the magic. It was only finishing what they started and the devs did a wonderful job adding the 'thank you.' To figs wife for leading them there. And finally 3) Sebastian sallow. Not only because Sebastian is a ride or die but because his story is literally bleeding into your own characters. Everything started with fieldcroft, Rookwood/Rookwood trials, ranrok, his hatred for goblins and of course Anne. Not only the stories but also the way you and him are connected right away, the trust and yearning to figure out your sides of the story. Him believing you can and will use the powers putting even Anne in the back of his mind for a while because he tells you "you can do what isadora can, just press the keepers." Not even caring about the outcome because he knew you'd use it for good vs the final keeper who either choice (agree or not) about isadoras decisions belittled you and tells you "you cant handle this power." Yet one shots isadora with the killing curse without letting her explain , and then the game wants me to banish sebastian for doing it when he was actually in the right? Nah. In the end, I agree that taking that power was the best ending vs a couple pictires that have no power over the next keepers will. I dont think the keepers were evil so to speak, but I dont think theyd the right to hold such magic.
My logic was (story wise), I kept it contained until I could further do more research on it. Isidora became unhinged by the end of it (so did Ranrok), it being magic derived from strong emotional magic (pain), made them mad. I want power yes, but not power that could end up controlling or destroying me. I would have plenty of time to be understand it, do research and slowly learn to master it, without losing my mind. Game wise, It didn't make sense to me, because it changes nothing of the outcome or ending; Fig dies, Ranrok dies, and I go back to school to finish the year and "prepare" for my owls.
What makes you think you're better then her and Ranrock? They both had their ideals to follow and thought they were right, just like you. With such power it is highly unlikely that anyone would be able to resist interfering in matters that are none of their concern and becoming a villian to some, if not many
@@SaphireKancer90 personally I didnt think she became unhinged. I actually agreed with her more by the end of my second playthrough than the first. I found keeping it contained wasnt worth all the work youd gone through just to bottle it up again, wtf not have an ending with taking it. Its not like you were going to follow in the previous two's footsteps anyway.
@@matthewzaslavets8423 because its my character, my idea and my playthrough? They dont give you a specific ending in showing you what you do with the power once you get it so I just finished it as a good ending in my head where the game leaves you off as. Besides I never once mentioned I was better than them to begin with, I was only stating the difference in my playthroughs and where I felt more strongly pulled to once I finished each ending.
@@matthewzaslavets8423 plus in my book there wasnt an evil ending to begin with. If you take the power then you're getting what you deserve, what you went through the trials for. If you dont take it , then its just kinda there to be locked for eternity. You cant use it in the end and I get why leaving it there made no difference vs taking it. But i found the "evil ending." As some put it to be the better one.
The Keepers were flawed human beings. Powerful wizard flawed human beings but nonetheless still that. I’m with you that they made mistakes and let Isadora spiral out of control when they could have taken control of the situation much earlier and possibly saved her in the process but that doesn’t make them villains. By the time they realize they have to stop Isadora, she’s gone full Palpatine and has to be dealt with. They didn’t “kill her in cold blood” since they tried to reason with her, and she attacked them. I don’t think it’s killing someone in cold blood when they’re trying to kill you first and then critically hurt someone in your group badly. It was presented as a last resort choice before she started killing everyone.
While I don't completely disagree with some of your premise, you got some facts wrong. The keepers use ancient magic(you said magic, but it's ancient magic) in feldcroft. So they do learn and explore ancient magic. Percival is even seen teaching Isidora how to use it. They just weren't willing to use it on people. But they did make a lot of mistakes
I strongly disagree with you. Isadora was a lunatic. And the keepers wanted to study it, but in a control scenario. The proof is that they allow her to use it. Her pensieve was a surprise because the person that see her memories could find the repository without undergoing the trials. In the end, their plan was flawed, but werent the villains. Also, I believe the unforgivable curses only became unforgivable after the Keepers time. Despite my disagreement, I have enjoyed your video. Congrats and keep doing it!
Unless I misunderstood the only problem with this theory is you think what she pulled out of her father and others is ancient magic that was something else she used ancient magic to pull that out of them. All 5 of them can use ancient magic.
The keepers USED ANCIENT MAGIC to save that town from the drought. They're not against using ancient magic. They're against removing people's emotions. Even removing pain is taking away a part of that person's personality... Part of their soul. And then Isadora just stored all of the magically removed pain in the repositories. So the magic in the repositories is all twisted and dark because it's been tainted by the negative emotions it was used to remove from people.
Finally someone who understands, pain is often associated with growth, for example experiencing the pain of loss for the first time can allow for growth in the form of understanding death is inevitable. Removing someone's pain is like removing their growth thus removing an important part of their character.
Idk, I can see them controlling the narrative as a bad thing. But I don't think that makes them the villains. From their perspective they were honest with their intentions with Isadora. Their goal was to keep the ancient magic secret from those who might abuse it. They had no intention of studying it further. They had seen all they needed from the magic to understand that it needed to be kept from the world. Seeing it become corrupt the way Isadora had shown them only strengthened their beliefs. She was living proof of someone who'd abuse that power for personal gain, even if it was well intentioned. It had led to what appeared to be the death of the headmistress, the corruption of Isadora, and the emotionless husk that became her father. I don't necessarily blame them for trying to control the narrative and I don't believe that makes them the villains. I believe it makes them flawed mentors. The trials were set as a means to guide whomever viewed their pensive's on the path of a keeper. Do I think they should have shared that knowledge with the rest of the world? I'm not sure. Considering the ministry of magic's incompetence seen throughout the series including this one, I wouldn't be surprised if their regulation over ancient magic would inadvertently back fire. I'm not saying that trying to understand it is bad, or their biased viewpoint and unwillingness to share Isadora's side of the story is good, but I will say their paranoia and caution is warranted given all they know.
i don't agree with Isadora's potrait that house got burn down by rockwood and his crew we know it cause anne was eye witness most likely Isadora didn't help or couldn't (since she died in the cave by the keeprs and didn't tell her potrait that)and got destroyed angry with some boosted ancient magic cursed anne as result 6:38 a part of me know the dev know...to do avada kedavra you need to want to kill them ...your hate is needed to make that spell work
I may have found the keepers cryptic and annoying sometimes, but I don't think they were wrong at all. Isadora was an unhinged lunatic. Being close minded about someone wanting to remove all negative emotion from the world using a not well understood form of magic doesn't make them wrong. And they did not murder her in cold blood at all. She was already taking it way too far and was not going to stop. Did what they had to do.
Something else worth noting: Isidora probably doesn't know the negative effects removing pain could have. When San Bakar visits her father and discovers his state, it's likely been an extended amount of time, and Isidora probably hadn't seen him in a bit due to her schedule being full, what with her study of ancient magic and teaching DADA full time. When the Keepers do show up to confront her, notice how nobody brings up the state of her father, it's all just "you've gone down the wrong path" stuff. Also, there is a good possibility that the loss of all emotions was a special case specific to her father. I mean, she took enough pain to fill up multiple repositories, so how would the Keepers cover up all those people losingvtheir emotions? Unless they didn't. Isidora's father was consumed with grief at the loss of his son. If pain is all you feel, and someone takes their pain, what's left? TL:DR the Keepers murdered a fellow teacher without telling her what their concerns were, even though their concerns were likely invalid...
There were using ancient magic to help save Feldcroft from the drought. It's not like they never used it. It was Rackham who could see it, not the other keepers. But he taught them to wield it. And they taught Isidora how to wield it, which she did when transfiguring the pillars before going crazy. It was her desperation to help her father that drove her to were she was. Sounds familiar considering Sebastian's story quests. "The path to hell is paved with good intentions." In Rackham's memory of Isidora pulling pain from her father, you see tendrils of magic continuing to spill outward, but that part of the memory is changed with Isidora's. You kinda see a swift shift away from that moment in her memory. They didn't alter it because they didn't even know she left it. She did, and likely from her convincing herself she was doing the right thing. Isidora didn't really have a grasp on the specific type of ancient magic she was using, which led to the emotion continuing to spill out. Which is why we see it clouding the floor in Isidora's home in Bakar's memory, and her father becoming completely emotionless. That's not to say she didn't "perfect" her technique afterwards to prevent that from happening again with other's. And in Isidora's mind, she probably thought that her father being emotionless was better than him feeling any pain. As for Bakar using an unforgivable, they weren't unforgivable back then.
Ancient magic is not the problem. The problem is that Isadora went too far with it. So it makes no sense to seal it away when we're the only person who can really use it. Might as well just take the power and ensure we don't abuse it.
I think you should stay as far away from it as possible, hire volunteers that would be willing to carry the emotions and either die with them or grief etc through them in order to slowly deplete it. Or feed it to dementors however that could breed more of them.
The Keepers: We need to study and understand this new from of ancient magic. Isadora: No, we need to use it to make the world a better place, I just need something to store all the negative emotions from the villagers I've been experimenting on! If you won't help me, I'll push ahead recklessly to achieve my ends without your decades of experience! This video: The Keepers didn't want to study this form of ancient magic, and are actually the villains!
The keepers are the villains. Our 15 year old Character shouldn't have to play janitor to clean up someone's else messes. Hiding a secret dark magic inside a ball underneath a cave what COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?! OH!, I know! Evil Goblin decided to go insane and take his hated out on Wizardkind because he got bullied by ONE! Taking his hated out on our poor 15 year old student who just wanted to have a normal wizard school life. This is why, I hate the Keepers because our character didn't consent to this and was forced to do this because the Keepers are too lazy and dead to clean up after their messes.
@@Whocares158 When I played the game, I found the Keeper's reluctance to trust The Student annoying - all of them, with the exception of Niamh Fitzgerald, believe that The Student is too young to take on the responsibility, with San Bakar being the worst as his reluctance is two-fold, believing The Student both too young and having concerns of the morality of The Student The only mistake that the Keepers made was not knowing that Bragbor the Boastful kept records, which is what clued in Ranrok to the existence of the repositories. If not for that, The Student would have been feed clues about the existence of Ancient Magic thorough Niamh Fitzgerald - as she knew about The Student through her portrait in the Headmaster's office. Eventually, The Student would have been guided to discover the key, likely as a 7th-year, and would have undergone the trials then. Yes, a 15-year-old who hadn't even completed their OWLs should never have been asked to clean up the mess caused by a single mistake made by four fully qualified wizards five hundred years in the past, but that doesn't make them the villains. While Ranrok relates a sob-story about him encountering a group of poachers and an illegal dragon camp, he demonstrates no sympathy for dragons in later life, using goblin silver and ancient magic to enslave the animals for the entertainment of wizards and for his future war on wizard-kind. I also very much doubt that Ranrok just 'picked up' the dropped wand - he was likely trying to use it before he was nearly beat to death. Not hearing the story first-hand, not being able to ask follow-up questions, you have to wonder if the narrator is reliable.
Oh man I would sacrifice 75% of the soulless open world in a heartbeat for an extension to the storyline, clearing everything up, adding more details and more content, ideally making the story take place over at least the first 5 years with choices and consequences and actual relationships with the companions. And while the game certainly doesnt make a full case for the keepers, nor for Isidora being "evil" (tho you can see how she enjoys being more powerful than her teachers during the fight, she was going down that way), its clear that messing with someones emotions, especially without their consent, and even more so when it can and seemingly does lead to an even bigger blowback down the road is clearly way beyond somethign that should be studied, Isidora proved why the magic is so dangerous and why studying it as she did can bring unwanted eyes and dangerous hands to it, as much as the keepers are total wet blankets, the magic being discovered and nearly falling to ranrok was entirely Isidora's fault. And as you say, and as we see, they are not opposed to using the magic for good, just secretly, I think had Isidora worked with them and set slightly less godlike goals like rid the world of pain certainly is, they would work with her in my opinion. Also, learning more about the magic and understanding it better, researching it in no way precludes it from still being used for evil in the future, if anything it only leaves more for people to find and use like with Ranrok. Neither option is perfect, it could do a lot of good but also a lot of evil but considering what is potentially at stake I think erring on the side of caution is wise.
The repositories didn't contain ancient magic as much as it contained the stuff Isadora drew out of people when she wasn't snorting it like cocaine. That is what made it dangerous. We can use our knowledge of what Isadora did and what she did wrong without using the tainted magic from the repositories. Anne's problem is physical from what I can tell and removing her emotions will not save her, but I think it can be done.
It’s not pure ancient magic but tainted ancient magic. That’s a really big diffrence. Especially because it turned Isidora into an addict. Bakar used the only spell able to stop Isidora at this specific moment. Isidora acted like an immature young person, who thinks no one should suffer at all. Yes her father couldn’t live normally after loosing his son, but it wasn’t her duty to fix him. She was a traumatised daddy’s girl, then she became addicted to a tainted power. (Loosing a child and a brother must be unberable, it allows us to be more understanding towards Sebastian fear of loosing his twin sister.❤)
I will respond by framing what happened with the keepers with a modern synonym. If I make it against the law for someone to test unknown technology on humans, I am not responsible for the lives a rogue scientist destroys testing the technology because I restricted him or refused to compromise with him. The ends do not ever justify the means, no matter what helpful advances that scientist made. And I would hope no one would question me representing this scientist as what he is, a monster not to be idolized. You are willingly misrepresenting what the game showed. The keepers where not hiding away ancient magic. They were hiding away ancient magic born of pain, powers that where completely unknown and obtained in a brutally unethical fashion. It was a power that they felt was completely morally wrong to even tamper with, and took the best measures to ensure it was not that they could with limited knowledge. Whether or not you agree with that, a reasonable person could understand why they felt that way. The depiction they give of Isadora lines up completely with the writings and memory Isadora left behind. They depicted a witch who had willingly and knowingly crossed a line that should not be crossed, who ventured well beyond reason once she started experimenting on Hogwarts students. They did not depict her as "unstable" as you have said, they depicted her as wrong. And they're portrayal of her was spot on. At the end of the day, the actions of others does not remove us of our responsibility for our actions. Isadora was fully in the wrong.
Sounds more like a conspiracy theory. So the Keepers were the villains because they sealed away magic formed by pain and negative emotion? Because they didn’t seal it away better? Because they didn’t study it? Didn’t handle Isadoras situation better (in hindsight)? Failing to see what makes them so evil. Also, not to point out the obvious but who is the hero that can define them as the villains? Isadora?! If anything I think “villain” is a poor choice in labeling them because I think a point can be made in your case but not by labeling them as evil to the stories plot.
To me isadora is bad to you don’t see what she was doing to her dad and her students like girl that your father those are kids! that kind of power can be dangerous and deadly in the wrong hands. That why they try to stop her but she didn’t
I was playing it again this week, and noticed that the chalkboards in the undercroft have something written about ancient magic on them. Most of it i cant make out, but it has the ancient magic swirl and one of them says "Percival is hiding something"
This is a very uncharitable interpretation of the events. It’s equivalent to saying Dumbledore is the villain because he didn’t sharing everything with Harry. No, people make mistakes and have poor judgement, but that doesn’t make them responsible for other people’s actions. Parents that teach abstinence are not responsible for their child being pregnant, and scientists that said no to nuclear research are not responsible for other scientists choosing to do it. Asking why they only showed their perspective is obvious… they thought it was dangerous. Even if they did destroy her portrait that’s a bad choice, but not villainess. The keepers set the current events in motion, but they are not villains. Calling them villains is very uncharitable.
You do realize that you have just explained the differences between the Sith and Jedi? Just a thought. Instead of understanding the need for a balance, they decided to just put a wall around it. From both sides.
Pretty true. But you cannot really call the Jedi evil in the same way (ideologically, kidnaping children does make them evil, but I'm not talking about that). The keepers didn't to anything bad by limiting access and knowledge about ancient magic, and Jedi wanted to be one with the force. Ideologically both are at worst grey, while both Sith and the girl are objectively evil
@@matthewzaslavets8423 Jedi almost never kidnap children, though. Only one case that we know of, and only because they thought the parents was dead, and once they found out the mother was alive, they had already opened the infants mind to the Force, and thus the Jedi considered it too dangerous to go back to the Mother. Otherwise, they ask promission.
@@knightsaber3155 almost never kidnapping children is still pretty evil. Never kidnapping them sounds much better. There could also be the case that they may take one child but leave the other just because the first one is more gifted, which is not just inhumane, but also wrong on their part (although that's on the old Republic jedi, I don't think modern ones did so)
@@matthewzaslavets8423 I mean if we're counting Disney!Wars, endangering a planet full of sapient life for the sole purpose of teaching a single Padawan a moral lesson (this actually happened) is pretty dang evil. As for the second part of that, that's the kinda thing jedi probably would never have done in the first place unless it's a case of the less talented individual literally not being force-sensitive at all, or having their hands tied. They might not necessarily force every force-sensitive (heh) into their order, but they certainly didn't like other force orders (even lightside ones, which they did at least tolerate), and they've effectively never really been shown to care *that* much about aptitude, beforehand. Frankly that whole scene is more something a sith would have done. As for the balance thing in the original comment--the Light and the Dark side are not Yin and Yang. They're not two opposites kept in balance or flux. The Force in balance *is* the "light side." The Dark Side is the act of bending the force to a user's will to get a desired, typically negative result--it is in essence, an act of perversion--though it is worth noting, some lightsiders do make limited use of this process (the tricky part is that power is seductive, especially cheap and quick power). This is coming from someone who does find the Sith cooler than the jedi, too, by the way.
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The narrative makes it looks like absorbing/consuming feelings extracted with ancient magic can change you, or maybe be addictive.
It's always the same... A great power imply great responsibility. They just think that it was too much of power to let it go freely at this time... This is why they keep it safe in a way they had back then. And this is why it's let free to access to someone who, they hope, would be wise enough to see at his time if it could be different. Otherwise you don't let access, you loose it somewhere, where you are sure that there is low probability to be found back. If the world is not ready yet you keep it safe until some time pass and a new person will have access again and do the same process. The way they give informations by step is also to allow the one who learn, to not make a shortcut and see the full path which will lead him to the possibility to make the choice. This is how I see it even if it's simplified a little bit. It's like to give the code to the nuclear power to a guy and then realize that this guy is not wise at all and even dangerous. Then, it's almost too late and the only choice you have left to avoid an holocaust, is to do what you would never have done otherwise, remove this guy from the equation while you still can. Does it makes you a bad guy who acts against the principe he teaches, or a good guy who had to sacrifice his principes to save everything. Great responsibility imply sometime difficult choices. I don't think those portraits are condescending but the mistake they made in the past to think that more people could be responsible enough lead them to understand that not everybody can, obviously. Something tells me that you wouldn't do a good usage of that power, would you?
I am not exactly full on board or agreeing with all the keepers decided as they are really judgemental with you and really don't even teach you nothing about your gift and how you should use it not even to make the damn pretty pillars but I could never think on them as the bad guys. Isidora actually became addicted on get the pain of people letting behind people like her father and was doing it on another ones... Children whats even worse. At this point it wasn't anymore about her helping anyone she was getting it from take that pain like if she was using drugs. I would never want that ball of literal pain so for me it stayed closed up forever but I really wanted to find ways of using the ancient magic that our character has to another suff even if only to make that beautiful architecture (teach me to do the damn pillars game). The only thing I would do with that ball of freaking pain power if I could would be finding a way to dissolve it without destroying the school so no one could use it. The end as it is let me worried that anyone in the future could just find it and destroy the entire world after I am not there anymore.
It is completely possible that all those hints about Keepers likely not telling us everything (pointing out that Isadora´s painting being destroyed looks like it was intentional, Sebastian saying the Keepers are just playing with us, etc.), is because they are part of an abandoned storyline that was cut just like many other features in the game. Wouldn´t be suprised if this plot went through several rewrites over the years when game was being made, and there was originally supposed to be more to Isadora´s story than what is then eventually revealed to us in the final product.
I already knew in which direction you would go and I completely agree. The Keepers where acting their age. It is new, when don't understand it, so we fear it. Don't use it.
So, I really enjoyed your video and thought you made a lot of really valid points, but I do want to point out that the keepers had lived about 400 years before Hogwarts Legacy, and the unforgivable curses did not become unforgivable in the UK until 1717, so when San Bakar killed Isadora, his methods were perfectly legal.
Uh the keepers weren't against using all ancient magic they where against the pain infused magical byproduct that Isadora stored in the repositories and how she went about taking it and misusing it. Also the pain infused ancient magic in those repositories though powerfull is very risky to use and may actually amplify negative emotions / dark thoughts. Leading to corruption of ones mind/ magic. Since pain often leads to the following byproducts: anxiety, anger, depression etc... Those able to move past pain are able to grow stronger naturally. Taking away pain likely also takes away part of the potential needed to overcome it. Isadora stole that potential for herself and was hoarding it like a dragon.
The keepers are essentially the Jedi In starwars. They are so afraid of the dark side and hate anyone who even thinks about it. But luke had it right. He believed the jedi were flawed and both the dark and light side should be treated equally. He wasn't against completely banning his students from learning the dark ways. He just focused on being the best teacher he could be, hoping that his students would learn right from wrong themselves. Instead of taking the elitist way the jedi did in the prequels. HLs story about the keepers is very similar to this. The keepers should have taught her about the dark arts and why it was important to not use it instead of forbidding it entirely and just telling her "no" at evrey turn. Cause they essentially created their version of an anakin skywalker for their universe. Ill say this, i love absolutely evreything about Hogwarts Legacy. EXCEPT the story.. besides the story and how it was told, my only other issues are with the many cut features and content that was clearly planned then removed.. but what we DO have in the game (minus the story) is literally why its still my favorite HP/wizarding world game ever made.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." You can see how Isadora explored the ancient magic. It is similar to "human experiments" that happens in real life and what he did to his father is almost patricide. Living without emotions is not living at all. I agree that the keepers are also not good guys and are at the absolute end of the opposite spectrum but if I had to choose which side I would take, I would take theirs. If a single Isadora or Ranrok could endanger the world, what more if the knowledge about the ancient magic becomes public. Just my opinion on the matter.
So many wrong things said in this. To stop the drought it was ancient magic they used. Isodora says upon talking to the keepers she saw the traces when she was younger. Therefore they used ancient magic. It's not all ancient magic they didn't want being used. In the trials MC has to use ancient magic to get through them. The ancient magic they kept hidden was corrupted ancient magic Isodora created when pulling people's emotions.
While playing, I couldn’t help being reminded of famous scientists in history who were persecuted for challenging the status quo. Isadora could’ve been a Galileo of her time.
They may seem like the enemy by keeping a giant secret made by Isidora. I think they could have done more for her family. But I agree that emotions the pain should not be taken out of people in form of ancient magic and the fact that she attacked first and didn't think of the consequences of her actions. The keepers were right but could have done more to prevent it
And that's the same reason Solomon should have been helping and supervising Sebastian, rather than shouting at the kid, calling him stubborn as an insult, making said insult personal by comparing Sebastian to his father who Sebastian probably saw suffocate to death, and refusing to even engage in the idea of curing Anne. Shutting down people driven by desperation only forces them to do it in secret, and that desperation combined with alienation and isolation makes them unchecked and unstable and more prone to bad decisions.
Your interpretation of the keepers is a little off my guy. I would say it's safe to say they were studying it they were just against using it on people. And when she showed that she could take away pain, 3 of the 4 for all about looking more into this while 1 was wary but did not contradict. The keepers even encourage your character to go out to ancient's magic spots and gain more power. They're trials and reluctance to give too much information is understandable seeing last time they gave all that information freely someone went crazy with it.
Play the game again. They were all using ancient magic, as shown with the ancient magic glow that surrounded them. They used it to help, like ending the drought in Isadora's hometown. Isadora took it down a different path, removing emotions that had darker results. Isadora's use caused the ancient magic to take on a darker glow. A hint something was definitely not right.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
I wonder what Isadora’s portrait would’ve said about everything that went down.
We all do this why I hope we ghave a true evil ending dlc with her in it
@@sinarchbishopoflust6717 could be so fucking awesome
I NEVER THOUGHT AB THAT. I’d love to hear what she has to say including if you did keep the power or kept it secret or shared it. I bet if you kept it secret she wouldn’t be to happy lol
“They never should’ve done that to me. I’m only trying to do good. The world would be so much better without pain.”
Just because the Keepers chose to avoid the ancient magic, does not justify Isidora's choices and actions. Just because someone chooses not to act, does not force anyone else to act. The existence of that magic had no harmful effect on anyone if left alone and by itself - it was not as if that magic was threatening the world through its existence and was calling for action.
Isidora did all she did on her own account, by herself and for herself. Did the study of Dark Arts by all the wizards across the ages stopped Voldmort from becoming what he became? What good did it do in that regard? Nothing, it could not prevent people from becoming what they chose to become.
How can you say the keepers were the real villains for not engaging with the magic? If Isidora did engage, why did she use it in a dark way? Who made her use it like that? The magic? No, herself. At that point, she would had used anything else she could access in pretty much the same way, being heavily studied before or not. It's not like the magic brainwashed her, she brainwashed herself.
If I see something that is corrupting the world, then it is my duty as a human being to do all I can to stop it. But if I see something that is neutral and I have no desire to study that thing, why would it be my fault for leaving something be if others end up using a neutral force for evil ends?
Sure, they may have destroyed the Portrait but for good reason: so no goblin or ill willed individual to be able to access the magic by collaborating with Isidora. Or allow an innocent being brainwashed by her like Palpatine brainwashed Anakin, and became Vader (unfortunately no one could erase Palpatine's "portrait" so Anakin cannot interact with him...) or how Ginny became "controlled" by Voldmort's diary.
Being the character that she was, destroying any means of interacting with her, was justifiably of utmost importance. And making sure she died, by using the curse, was just as important. She was no longer a human being, she was a monster, experimenting on children and wanting to transform the entire world into zombies... What is there to leave alive? So she can work her way out of the trials or wait for some dark characters to approach her in Azkaban and release her to continue her work? No, characters like these, that are no longer human, cannot be contained... It's enough they had to deal with her left-behind magic, imagine having to deal with her alive as well. Instead of one uncontainable thing they would've had 2.
No one forced her to act this way but her actions surely forced the keepers to react the way they did. They had no other choice. And the keepers did contain her evil, they did not use it in any way, so we have proof that their intentions were good all along. Otherwise, some of them would had been inclined to use it for themselves after she was dead.
Hogwarts Legacy is a good game, but the ending makes little sense and seems rushed. When first playing, I thought maybe we would have the chance to repair Isidora's portrait and learn about the magic to save Anne. This is clearly implied during the last main quest with Sebastian. But we don't and our choice at the end is largely irrelevant and Sebastian's storyline ends inconclusive. Not to mention, the main story ends during the winter, basically skipping half the school year. I feel like maybe they planned a bigger story but didn't have enough time. Or maybe they will expand upon it with DLC or a sequel.
I honestly hoped to talk to Isadora as well, maybe that will be ammended, probably not though, if there will be any more. And I sure wanted to help Seb and his sister. But now I can't even play the game as it is a total mess for me. Interesting thing is for my friend it is fine and i found out it is so for many people. Some have issues others have none.
After the alst update I found it crashing, ancient magick emter broken, enemies broken sometimes and the lighting too, with is suddenly washing the entire screen wehn there should be little to none. LIke blinding. I'M honestly lost not to be able to play at all
I don’t they have plans for a dlc. They wrapped up the story pretty tight..
The story is a huge mess.
I think this will continue in the second game.
@@user-wp2uo1xd4j dlc for mini games and side. Quest s
If Isadora was right about one thing, it's that it is better to share and study this kind of magic. Nothing stays buried forever. The very fact that Ranrok acquired any info on the Keepers and Fig's wife found the portkey indicates as much. As for keeping the final repository under Hogwarts, I think that had more to do with being unable to destroy it safely without the negative emotions running rampant. What I find funny is the Keepers thinking the MC would follow all of their ideals and keep a kind of magic that few can see and use a secret. Even if you agree that Isadora was a complete basket case, they aren't in a position to stop you since they're dead and can only communicate through enchanted canvases. The worst they can do if you go against their wishes is give you a splinter if not a paper cut.
Exactly. The trials only prove someone is smart and powerful enough to survive and finish the trials. They don't test for a person's morality or ethics. It hinges on the "challenger" or in this case the MC to blindly believe the crafted narrative and then choose to continue keeping it a secret. Since the Keepers are so bent on "secrecy", they made the mistake of involving Isadora in the first place. The knowledge should have died with them if they didn't intend on researching or exploring the ancient magic further.
No, The very fact Ranrok acquired any info is proof of the opposite - Isiodora shared her knowledge and Ranrok was created as a result.
@@Dark_Voice Ranrok was created as a result of the cruelty of wizard kind, not Isadora.
@@ThoraxetheImpaile100 I think he means the Ranrok that wanted the ancient powers for himself. Not the Ranrok that’s salty about some wizard history
This is true.
I think instead of trying to destory it and ignore its existence it would habe been so much better to Support Isadora and SAVELY study this magic to know the good and bad about it. They could have chanhed the whole history probably
By the time Isidora was killed, Avada Kedavra wasn't unforgivable yet. According Dumbledore, the death curse became classified as unforgivable by the Wizarding World in 1717 along with the two other curses.
Remind me when does hogwarts legacy takes place?
hogwarts legacy takes place in the late 1800s
@@wavestrider2160 From the summer of 1890 to the spring of 1891.
@@TheFuronMothership @SuperSpider Studios exactly, so op mentioning its not an unforgivable yet is false, the avada kedavra is indeed unforgivable at the time
But i argue its use here isnt cold blooded as the video suggest
@@wavestrider2160 The Wiki Potter says she was a professor at hogwarts by the 15th or 16th century so when she was killed, it was not an unforgivable curse yet. Edit: the game makes clear that the keepers story happened a few centuries before the hogwarts legacy events take place.
Yeah the keepers always thru me off, I also didn't like how they never seem to communicate amongst themselves, by the time Keeper San bakkar shows up he should be VERY different towards us. He says " I dont trust you " like bruh I dont trust YOU
Right? And then you watch his memory and he killed Isidora... This last guardian is so shady.
@ Yep, That too Avada her and no one bats an eye.
@@christopher2684 wasn't unforgivable back in their time
@@christopher2684 actually one of them looks at him like wtf did you just do!
@@alessandropezzoli9717 the point is that San Bakar wansn't different than Isadora. He solved the problem choosing the easy solution, and what is worse, they silenced her, so we only can see the Keepers version of the story.
There’s a very interesting parallel between Solomon Sallow’s reaction to Sabastian’s exploration of Dark Magic and the Keeper’s reaction to Isadora’s use of Ancient Magic. Both have a very set idea of how certain magics should be used and how they should not. I think, in both cases, had the mentor guided the students in their exploration of new uses of magic, they may not have felt the need to go as far as they did. After all the game itself mentions magic is just a tool in the intro- what matters is how it is used.
Also, are we sure the Keepers actually want us passing their “trials”? Or are the “trials” just there to try to kill anyone who could possibly discover their secrets? The only trial that really seemed to “teach” something was the Deathly Hallows one, and even that one was super dangerous for the MC. Even the very first one in Gringots was just “here’s some giant guardian statues; hope you survive! Oh, you know like two spells? Guess it s*cks to be you!”
And there is also a parallel to Sebastian and Isidora. Both have an ailing family member, and both wanted to do anything to relieve their loved one of the pain. And both Sebastian and Isidora won't hesitate to go to the extremes, even if it means severing ties with someone close to them (Sebastian to his uncle, Isidora to the Keepers).
I hated the deathly Hallow trial, and if I may ask, what did it teach? Because I got nothing but a blasted headache from staring at so much black and white for that long.
@@mightymouse8134 To me the trial told the story of trying desperately to escape death, eventually accepting it, then in doing so conquering it. Kind of the same lesson Harry had to learn to master the Deathly Hallows in the books. I can see how the art style might bother you, but I thought it was beautiful. And, to my original point, it was meant to teach the character about accepting that there are certain inevitabilities, and that it’s only through accepting those inevitabilities that we conquer. This is to caution against trying to avoid the inevitable, like Isadora did.
Not sure how much I agree. But I think that was the lesson.
@@catlover2223 Just because you can destroy darkness doesn't always mean that you should.
I disagree with that idea. Darkness is a plague, trying to undo creation and beauty and light. It was never meant to exist. It’s a sickness, A disease, It’s Death. For Isadora’s father, I believe all that he needed was therapy, really just a way to move on. He can only let go if he is willing to accept the help and get help. Sometimes you don’t NEED magic. The best answer are sometimes the most non magical ones to ever exist. Plus I believe that the Keepers were reckless and could have peacefully avoided conflict with Isadora like Sebastian and Solomon. Through talking and peaceful open communication and honesty, not being dominant and closed minded like Solomon did with Sebastian. (Wanna close by pointing out that Sebastian tried other ways to heal Anne WITHOUT Dark Arts. Remember the Shrivelfig? That is a potion ingredient. He was trying other ways but Solomon was not hearing it. Sebastian was trying to be a doctor and could have come up with new cures but Solomon was being stubborn and accept an old time traditional reality that doesn’t reflect what today [the modern time in the story].)
Apparently the portraits were enchanted with anti-spoillio spell. Thats why they deflect your questions and instruct you to complete the trials instead.
I noticed this on my first play through that they never wanted us the player to have anything to do with this magic. But I couldn’t understand why wouldn’t they help teach us about it or help us grow…. “Oh you have this ability that’s helpful? Yeah you shouldn’t use this at all what so ever it’s dangerous because we can’t use it.”
Because they are pussy and too afraid.
I made sure to go against their stupid wishes.
Because its not about Ancient Magic being locked away, just SPECIFICALLY what isidora did. The spells she used and the magic she drew out of people
The keepers may be biased narators but isadora's penchant for forging ahead with abandon is in stark contrast to their restricted containment of knowledge and the pursuit of power. They had respect for power while she had a thirst for power that blinded her to its corruption. Sebastien's story ark was a microcosm of the game in that Sebastien ended up destroying everything around him (including himself) in order to save the thing he held most dear.
I agree with your observation about Sebastian, and I'm glad to see that someone else picked up on it. But in both Sebastian and Isidora's cases, issues arose when power corrupted their good intentions. The Keepers see no middle ground to this, and are overly conservative. A real world parallel would be something like stem cell research. Sure, there are potentially unethical things that can arise from it, but that doesn't mean we ignore it and lock it away forever. Instead, we teach researchers proper ethics and find ways to use the science for genuine good, such as helping people with lost limbs. For all we know, there might be a way to use ancient magic to mitigate someone's pain without entirely removing it and making them a husk. That's why my Ravenclaw character decided to take the power, to study it and find out its true nature. Then, she'll decide whether to release information of it to the rest of the wizarding world. To me, that is the morally correct answer.
@@charismacaster2429 you're view on stem cell research is skewed. You've been lead to believe that because the Catholic church opposes uses human embryos for stem cell research that they oppose all stem cell research. But in fact, the Church supports ethically responsible stem cell research, while opposing any research that exploits or destroys human embryos. Because the Church opposes deliberately destroying innocent human life at any stage, for research or any other purpose, it opposes embryonic stem cell research as currently conducted.
@@charismacaster2429 the keepers are just like Solomon Sallow, refusing to see any possible use of dark magic. The use of unforgivable curses are absolutely unforgivable no matter the circumstances, even to the point that he is willing to attack the player and Sebastien rather than offer any sort of help. I mean an ex-auror attacks two Hogwarts students while trying to fend off a horde of inferi? Does that not sound just as crazy? No consideration for circumstances, he just instantly judges us as the greater threat.
Also this theme holds for Ranrok as well. If you recall how he came to hate wizardkind, it was because he was interested in dragons and tried to approach a wizard, thinking that offering the wizard his dropped wand would be a way to break the ice. Instead, the wizard instantly judges him as the greatest threat and attacks him on sight. No consideration for circumstances. A goblin with a wand is an absolute threat, there can be no other reason.
There is even a parallel when you step back and pay attention to sebastians story. He went down a path with good intentions, but lost himself to the allure of unknown magics in a pursuit to fix his sister. Much like isadora trying to relieve her father from his pain.
@@charismacaster2429 I think people could argue that at the root of stem cell research is a desire to “play god” that’s why no matter how u put it or go about doing it, in my opinion I think it’s a complex matter. I know back then we didn’t have cars and maybe people thought building cars was bad too, bad comparison, but I do wanna be clear that I could be mixing up science and religion but I’m trying to say there is a certain point in science, where we continue to alter the natural way of things. The invention of glasses is phenomenal. But it’s allowed many of us “under equipped” with vision. To be able to stand with the crowd. In reality tho people that use the are blind as a bat. If it serves a need I guess it’s relevant. I don’t think we need to eradicate cancer or disease. Cause the where will our doctors go, our optometrist? If we figured a way to manipulate our bodies to collect moisture In the air so we where never thirsty again? Sounds incredible but what will happend to the things like Coca Cola and them yummy tropicana juices u sip on. They will eventually be gone I feel. So I guess that’s why we keep the power maintained, cause if not this world would eventually go to 💩 or maybe just get real boring because no one will have issues or problems, just living life very secular.
Reminds me of what Palpatine said to Anakin in Star wars. "If one is to understand the great mystery, one must understand all aspects. Not just the norrow minded view of the Jedi".
I wish you could have actually spoke to her through her portrait. Would have giving us the other half of the argument, and let us actually make a decision
They did but not the way that you want.
Watching a memory is not having a conversation with her. Yes you got to make a decision at the end, but hearing more on her perspective and actions from her would have been nice. Not a skewed narrative from one of the parties involved
Instead of taking his pain, Isadora should’ve given him back some joy
I don't think she knew how to do that and she really wanted the thing holding him back gone
Exactly - transmuting/transfiguring the pain into joy. Not simply removing it, to leave an empty space. She became an emotional vampire. She really just didn't want to face her own pain of watching her loved one be in pain.
It's an awesome game, but their "trials" make no sense.
All the "trials" do is prove you're a good fighter and can solve puzzles.
That does nothing to prove you are trustworthy enough to become the guardian of powerful and dangerous magic.
They just want to kill you to keep the Ancient Magic "safe"
personally i always viewed the ”trials” as something they never expected anybody at that time to pass, hell some of the places your sent aren’t exactly built for a students thought process of magic, like the rooms where you have to pass through an arch in a certain way just to get through, like would a normal Hogwarts student even assume that’s even and option more-so during a duel with giant statues?
sorta like how the shop quest line owner seems to think you’d escape the haunted dungeon but be driven mad and sent to st. mungos and when you do she decides to try and kill you and the officer you bring to talk with her.
Isidora reminds me of Anakin and the Keepers are like a Jedi Council. After I saw the connection I chose the "dark" path, those boomers should stay dead and stop messing with the future.
Hell Anakin's destiny was never to destroy the Dark side but bring balance to the force the Jedi got arrogant and change came bout through the dark side until they got arrogant and light came back through luke with changes being made for the jedi
Did anyone notice there's something odd with Isadora's own flashback? Right before the moment her father says thank you, the memory seems to glitch... false memory?
It looked as though she edited her memory so that whoever viewed it wouldn't see the traces escaping
Isidora truly proves that the idiom "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" holds true. Its okay to want to take away pain from someone truly suffering- the physical part at least. But emotionally? No. Pain makes us human. It allows us to grow and evolve both collectively and individually. Without it, well, we would never truly appriceate the good that comes with the bad. "There are no shadows without light and light without shadows." Balance, Isidora. Perhaps if the keepers had sat Isidora down as a child they could have set her down a very different path. Or not. We'll never know now, will we?
Agreed. Same with Sebastian’s story. So tragic 💔 😢
I'd rather not be depressed tbh lol
Pain doesn't make us human.
I'm a Antinatalist and am against any kind of procreation aka birth as that is inflicting pain and suffering onto innocent sentient beings.
@@Whocares158 I'm an antinatalist too, but we have to agree that pain and love are both the most powerful forces to change... And since we live in a society, the latter is far more normal. Pain is human because sometimes we humans inflict on each other without even knowing. It's a force of change and one of the most powerful teachers of life. Pain set us clear boundaries and a world without pain would be impossible.
Not having a child is freeing them of pain? Sure, but it's paradoxical since they lever lived in the first place. There are better motives to being antinatalist, like not really thinking parenthood is out purpose in life, self evaluation, a desire to be free to live the world the way you like, overpopulation exploits of the richest half, etc. But freeing someone that didn't even live of pain is not one. Pain is human.
@@Whocares158 that a fancy word for coward and sadist. Pain teaches us of the world the good and the bad. Isadora was onto something but she found something that worked in the short term. Pain is a force of nature and is needed Isadora went of the deep end and it was all avoidable at many point in her life the keepers didnt do shit didn't sit her down tell her WHY taking pain is bad. they Seemed to egg her on as if trying to make her take the bad route with nudges here and there. they wanted an excuse to be rid of her.
Isidora’s a mistake is she started testing in students who the keepers are responsible for.
Her father was one thing cause she was already dead inside and keepers were just disturbed but they didn’t stop her.
Isidora lost it eventually and she had to be put down.
Yeah sieng what happaned to her father, you dont want to know what happaned to the poor students and their familys
this one line from Rackkam stuck with me while playing. In his memory he tells Isidora that her father's pain is not hers to take, which ultimately leads Isidora down her path. He never gave an explanation for that though. Why was his pain not hers to take? My theory/guess is that Rackham thought his words were enough. Pain is not something easy to get over, especially loss. And some, like Isidora's father, live with it for the rest of their lives. But pain is apart of us and it is up to us to move on from it. I know we all wish we could take the pain from a loved one so they don't suffer but its not ours to take. They have to make the decision to move forward and heal. By taking away his pain, Isidora left her father with no way to heal, no way to look back at the tragedy that plagued him for so long and come to terms with it. My guess is she also did this multiple times to her father which is why he became an emotionless husk, no better than when she first took his pain. (I wonder if a Cheering Charm would have been a potential option to help her father or if Isidora might have used it as a basis for her pain removal spell) Prof Fitzgerald reacts as if something personal was taken when Isidora attempts to take her pain. And then Isidora inhales it seemingly getting a buzz off it, yeah she was unhinged by that point. That said, I do think the Keepers went about things the wrong way. Instead of trying to hide this power, they should have studied, researched and refined what Isidora started and maybe find a way to do what Isidora was but with less destructive consequences. But they should have also tried to reason and understand what Isidora was doing the night she first demonstrated on her father. They might have reaached an understanding or might have been able to convince her that it was too dangerous to continue without more study. By the time they confronted her beneath Hogwarts, it was too late and the only option they had left was to kill Isidora. Were the Keepers the real villains? I don't think so but I don't agree with how they went about things. and I would have loved to have been able to talk to Isidora's portrait and learn more on her side at the very least to help Sebastian and Anne, potentially subverting the outcome for the Sallow family.
We need a TL; DR for this one lol.
I agree with this, they should have taken the centuries before the next ancient magic user to study, refine and understand to their best ability the ancient magic instead though they limit every avenue of its use, only Professor Rookwood seemed to be more on board about bolstering you, the MC’s, ancient magic, it’s clear the keepers don’t want anyone else to have ancient magic unless it’s their views on it. I also would have liked to talk with Isadoras portrait
@@UhmActually1 TL DR
Pain is not for us to take, it is us to heal from them, pain is on our life, if it is taken, then we lost our way to heal. That's bad. Keepers should've taught Isidora on how to use her powers more less destructive.
Studying what she was doing wasn't the way to go, hell if she was really worried about taking away the pain use the Obliviate and wipe the memory of the son from his mind. But that would be wrong because it is taking his memories away from him, but at least it wouldn't have left him a husk.
They should have talked. They could have found anotger solution with 5 minds working on it. Something like take the pain, out them in goblinsilver pendants and give it back to its owner in smaller amounts. That way its still with the owner and they have less pain at a time allowing them to heal. Surely there would have been enough things possible. Maybe using the magic would make it run out instead of having it lay arount for villains to use.
When the professor asked do you trust a goblin, I knew it was a red flag.
Really? Because goblins are e main villains. I wasn’t surprised that they asked if we trusts a goblin
As someone who completed the story and chose to seal the magic, I didn't do it for the sake of the Keepers and if given the option to use this power again once I've learned more about it I would. I even said I would share it with my closest allies (Natty, Poppy, Ominis, and Everett) later in life. The Keepers should have tried reasoning with Isadora more before they killed her.
Ditto!
Who's Everett?
@@TheGingiGamerhe’s the raven claw from the mission where flying is introduced. The one who gives you a tour of hogwarts
@@SirFlooberis oh right
You are aware that irl if someone were to steal people's emotions the authority wouldn't "reason with them" they're going to straight up arrest/kill them, because what they're doing is wrong and can't be excused so "reasoning" with Isidora when she clearly is starting to lose it wouldn't have worked, maybe it would've before she started absorbing ancient magic.
Game plot breaks down to: keepers have the power to end human suffering but refuse to remotely try, so when Isidora proves them wrong they use an Unforgivable Curse to silence her.
Isadora had the female teacher in a neutral/in favor position at the beginning, but Isadora crossed a line using ancient magic on her teacher without consent. Isadora began her journey with good intentions, but her quest for helping others turn into a quest for power and only for power.
The keepers are too hesitant/careful, but not villains.
They are dumb.
Why fear a power you have?
Doesn't make any sense.
@@Whocares158 I tend to agree, but what if the use that power was the root of change on Isadora's behavior?
They are not evil I 100% agree, they were simply too afraid of the power isadora was wielding and feard the damage it could cause. Thus they don't want to unleash it even if it can do more good than harm.
@@Whocares158 how do they know that the power she is using for good now, won't eventually be used for bad later?
Without consent ? Really ? Where is the evidence that she used it on the students without their consent?
It feels like they had the two endings be seal and release and the release was supposed to have you look at isadoras portrait and it seems like all the companion quests were supposed to tie into the main quest more and a sliding ending like me2. But I bet they “ran out of time”
I ignored everything the Keepers told me and kept the power for myself at the end.
Right?! I mean really what did they REALLY tell you anyway?... that taking pain from others is bad and they dont know what that red stuff is. Oh and no one should use ancient magic...(for good or bad). That's it.
Same
I made sure to go against their wishes.
Because I really hated how they wanted me to do everything their way.
@@Whocares158 there was no leeway. They never told you anything about the trials, and sent a kid to risk their life for them.
That's what I wanted to do at first, but then I got to thinking about sebastian's request to learn ancient magic to try and save his sister Anne. But as we're told in the pensine that this would render the person emotionless, I was afraid it would be the same for Anne. So I didn't take the power for myself.. but in the end it was all for nothing as we couldn't even see Anne again
You completely misunderstood the story. They weren’t against ancient magic. She was using ancient magic to steal negative energy and emotions and THAT magic is what Ramrock was using and what she was inhaling and growing power hungry on, basically the “dark side of the force”. She syphoned emotions and energy from her own father and made him a mindless zombie, then she started feeding off of her students. I don’t think you actually played the game, I think you just took other people’s clips and made assumptions from there.
I do agree with you, those two big guards proved useless because our character had to find the wand to get past them, the baddies didn't pass them at all. As for the secret, there must have been loads of miners and other support staff who now know where it is. The next baddy (wizard or dwarf) can just wander in avoiding the guards on our character's day off, and they have won.
The true villains in this game are the writers who gave us such a bland and uninteresting main story, bland and uninteresting character dialogue interactions, and a total lack of consequences for the choices we make in game. The only decent storyline was the non-essential secondary Dark Arts quest line. Everything else was meh… too bad JKR had no involvement in the making of this game, because if she had been involved we might have gotten an RPG to rival the greats like Witcher 3, Deus Ex, or Mass Effect.
I had the same feeling all through the game. Why is it so bad to study, and learn to control this ancient magic? I mean, if you could control it more, you could take away people's current pain, like reset it to zero, without touching any of the other emotions. How can that be a bad thing? Also, as you said, if you don't learn to use and control it, someone else inevitably will. Maybe someone with evil intents. How tf are you going to defend yourself or your species against that evil someone, if you have no idea how it works, or how to control it!! It makes very little sense to just try and hide it!!
And think about it, that ancient magic was created by someone in the past. Even if you hide yours, how do you know someone else will not find out how to create it ever again? Or maybe even a worse version of it? Shouldn't you learn how to use and control it, in the event someone else creates something similar? Like, imagine if the west first got some gunpowder from the east, and realizing the potential to use it for evil, they decided to just hide it, and just carry on with swords etc. At some point the Chinese would reach the west, and finding them still using just swords etc, the west would have been crushed faster than you can say what's that weird banging sound? No, you should use it, find better ways to use it, find ways to defend against it, because you will inevitably be faced with it again some time in the future.
So hiding that ancient magic makes no logical sense at all. In fact it would be incredibly stupid NOT to use it, and study it to the max.
It was really interesting because the last keeper was basically trying to put the MC through a purity test even though he used Avada kedavra on Isidora and with the intent of the (even tho it wasn't deemed unforgivable yet) unforgivable curses, imo his credibility flew out the window for me in a how does he think he can judge MC and act high and mighty.
On one hand I can see that Isidora was trying to help people by taking away their pain. But on the other hand she went too far when she believed that it was for the best of people and the world whether they liked it or not.
Then again, I do wonder what would have happened if the MC tried to use the ancient magic on Anne. Maybe it's because it was a side quest but Sebastian asked the MC to talk to the keepers about using the magic to cure Anne and they just....didn't? And it's not mentioned again? It's possible that by taking Anne's pain that it would have taken all of her emotions. But it's also possible that it could have broken the curse placed on her and things could have been sunshine and rainbows. (I'm also wondering how and why the curse is still on Anne esp after you kill Rookwood)
That part of the story was a bit annoying. Taking Anne's pain (or at least considering it) seemed to be the obvious culmination of Sebastian's story. Unfortunately it's never even talked about. Maybe our character could have used it in this one case without turning into Isadora. Knowing the dangers would give us a big advantage.
@@Mekias Exactly! As much as I liked Sebastian's story it felt incomplete.
Anne pain was cause by the curse(crucio like) from others so if they can't break the curse then it's basically useless.
@@stevenkoo2294 But that's the point, what stops the MC from taking the curse itself out of her with ancient magic like Isidora did with pain and emotions? If you can take those out than surely you can take out the magic which is the root for the curse to work,. it's very possible and a very good application of what Isidora was trying to study... if possibilities like that exists there was so much good that the MC could possibly do
@@stevenkoo2294 ancient magic doesn't quite seem to follow the regular magic
Don’t see how any of what you said makes them the villains
Real ravenclaws would tried to study that ancient magic
I feel like the Game needed to better Define what Ancient Magic was and what it could do more thoroughly as it didn't seem to have a consistent theme. What isadora did was something completely new for the time. I think that They really could have been more clear and explain what Ancient magic does instead of just saying 'pass my trial to see this person who abused the power you have' and Isadora also being a 5th year feels like it devalues you coming to Hogwarts as a 5th year.
Rackham was also a 5th year when he started. I think it's just an ancient magic thing. Like for some reason it suppresses a Wizards magic until they turn 15 or so.
@@stevenhiggins3055 I also hate that. It should have been that we were the only 5th year now it feels cheapened by having 5 other people start as 5th years.
@@lockskelington314 3 Percival, Isidora and you. Percival and Isidora were presumably decades apart as he was already white haired when she was a child and you're born centuries later. As they say at the start Fig and George have never even heard of someone starting Hogwarts as a 5th year so they've even forgotten the other two who were once Hogwarts professors.
The keepers certainly were a frustrating lot to talk to, but I do not believe they can be called villains - just overly cryptic and slightly too arrogant. They saw the very real danger of the magic and sought to keep it safe. If you were to discover nuclear power, would you seek to keep that safe or tell everyone with the right tools how to build a mini-nuke in the back yard? Yes, this is a bit of a false dichotomy, and I agree that further study may well have been wise, *but* even with further study, it should be clandestine to prevent it falling into the wrong hands. And your argument about it inevitably being discovered doesn't hold on two levels. 1) they had little reason to believe it inevitable - that conclusion is made from hindsight. 2) even if it eventually happened (as it did), think of the amount of Isadoras or even worse that this secrecy may well have saved the world from. In short, their actions, most likely, resulted in reduced harm overall.
And a note on Isadora: I believe she was genuinely convinced she was doing the right thing - but her motivation is irrelevant, as her good intentions still ultimately led to the proverbial hell; and consequences are what matter most. Her use of the magic leaving people as emotionless husks was also unnecessary. In The Deathly Hallows, we see Hermione, a student, effectively delete her own existence from her parents' minds with strong obliviation magic. The same could have been done to Mr. Morganach. I believe it is such tunnel-vision and lack of thought on different solutions and caution as displayed in Isadora (and later in Sebastian) that, correctly in my opinion, led the Keepers to guard it.
This lack of perspective for alternative solutions is also why I find Sebastian's attempted defence of his use of Avada Kedavra and the Imperius curse so weak: he had other very viable options of handling the situation, but he opted for literal mind control and forced "game-overing" of the goblin and cold murder of an unarmed man who was no longer an immediate threat. With the goblin alone I can count five spells from the top of my head that even the main character on their first year in school could use to stop that situation (I could count more, such as accio, if we used the game's mechanics and not general lore). It is also a very worrying sign that his instinct was to go for the unforgivables rather than more conventional spells.
A last note, as others have pointed out, San's curse was not yet considered unforgivable (based on their clothes, they're living at least a century before that law), and the Keepers were actually engaged in a lethal battle. Should he have done it? I'd lean towards no, but at least he'd have a leg to stand on
I definitely was pretty shockd when the keeper used Avada Kedavra on her.
But I was expecting the other keepers to be mad at him and blame him for his actions, but no they just went with it.
Like... come on, there were many other spells he could have used (He even could have used imperio to stop her from seeking more ancient magic)
As if any other spell would’ve worked. The killing curse is justified in certain situations.
The killing curse was the better option in truth. It's the most humane way to kill someone and the other keepers still cared about her to some extent; they likely would've reacted differently if Bakkar had killed her by carving her up like a turkey or by torching her alive and melting the flesh off of her bones. Isidora was too strongwilled for imperio to last long if it even worked on her at all. That's without factoring in that she was magically enhanced at the time. Certain spells might have no effect on her because of that.
I went against their wishes because fuck them.
They are not the Heroes the game tries to make them out to be.
@@SimplymeSVEN18 Like they were trying to do? They were using all the most violent of the dueling spells from the start.
@@snintendog They did not. Rakham started with Expelliarmus and that was followed with a priori incantatem powerstruggle after Isadora's retalliation. The colour of Rkham's follow-up also resembles in-game stupefy; again a non-lethal attack. And Bakkar ends it with AK shortly after.
You made a pretty bold statement backed only by the Keepers being vague and secretive, of knowledge that actually belongs to them have you. We agree Isadora was a nutcase so why wouldn't the Keepers be weary of the only other person with their power who they don't know and is literally a child. Your claim is based off of what we know not what the Keepers would know at the time. Maybe you're the REAL VILLAIN Big Dan Gaming.
I chose the "evil" ending because I agreed with basically everything you said lol. Also, I wanted to use the full power of ancient magic which they wouldn't let me do anyways so -_-
Was your overall magic much stronger after taking the power or not at all?
I did good ending with other 3 (2 didn't complete yet, but did Gryffindor 100%) but with Slytherin i did evil ending (done 100%).
All excluded cave puzzles, not important for 100%.
@@christianastorga4555 Zero change
@@michaelmorehouse6027 I'd figured. That said, I feel like Ancient Magic really needs to be expounded on. Seems like powerful magic that could cause the end of humanity imo lol
should have had Chorban scan them to reveal their true nature
Just because the Keepers chose to avoid the ancient magic, does not justify Isidora's choices and actions. Just because someone chooses not to act, does not force anyone else to act. The existence of that magic had no harmful effect on anyone if left alone and by itself - it was not as if that magic was threatening the world through its existence and was calling for action.
Isidora did all she did on her own account, by herself and for herself. Did the study of Dark Arts by all the wizards across the ages stopped Voldmort from becoming what he became? What good did it do in that regard? Nothing, it could not prevent people from becoming what they chose to become.
How can you say the keepers were the real villains for not engaging with the magic? If Isidora did engage, why did she use it in a dark way? Who made her use it like that? The magic? No, herself. At that point, she would had used anything else she could access in pretty much the same way, being heavily studied before or not. It's not like the magic brainwashed her, she brainwashed herself.
If I see something that is corrupting the world, then it is my duty as a human being to do all I can to stop it. But if I see something that is neutral and I have no desire to study that thing, why would it be my fault for leaving something be if others end up using a neutral force for evil ends?
Sure, they may have destroyed the Portrait but for good reason: so no goblin or ill willed individual to be able to access the magic by collaborating with Isidora. Or allow an innocent being brainwashed by her like Palpatine brainwashed Anakin, and became Vader (unfortunately no one could erase Palpatine's "portrait" so Anakin cannot interact with him...) or how Ginny became "controlled" by Voldmort's diary.
Being the character that she was, destroying any means of interacting with her, was justifiably of utmost importance. And making sure she died, by using the curse, was just as important. She was no longer a human being, she was a monster, experimenting on children and wanting to transform the entire world into zombies... What is there to leave alive? So she can work her way out of the trials or wait for some dark characters to approach her in Azkaban and release her to continue her work? No, characters like these, that are no longer human, cannot be contained... It's enough they had to deal with her left-behind magic, imagine having to deal with her alive as well. Instead of one uncontainable thing they would've had 2.
No one forced her to act this way but her actions surely forced the keepers to react the way they did. They had no other choice. And the keepers did contain her evil, they did not use it in any way, so we have proof that their intentions were good all along. Otherwise, some of them would had been inclined to use it for themselves after she was dead.
The ones with the best intentions are usually the worst villians.
Dont they exist to maintain and repair the Citadel?
That is their day job after they finish talking to us lmao
No, they exist to guard the old Elven lore from the Elvhenan times.
All the story itself and Sebastian questline showed me that there will be a DLC later on. This story not finished yet, and remember. When you finish the main story it was winter, its like skipping the other remaining half of the school year, we dont know what happens to Anne later and there is an another sign for a DLC, the Quidditch, which has been canceled but only for that year, when we doing the main storiline. Other signs is that we only know a 10% of the potions and spells in the game, and there is 2 other spells which Dark Wizards using against us but we cant. The ranged "Petrificus Totalus" and the "Reducto". Also, about the map... We dont have the option to go to the Diagon Alley. A lot of things points towards a DLC for later on which is planned. it is planned but the developers need to release the game first for old gen and then fix the bugs etc.
Don’t forget Expulso, that’s another spell enemy wizards use that we don’t learn.
When you finish the main story, it was already spring going to summer and you're about to win the house cup. So technically, at the end of the game the school term is already over.
A ranged Pertificus Totalus for the player that could insta-kill most enemies seems a bit OP but they could balance it out by giving it a long cooldown of like 20 seconds.
Rackham had the same ability... so he should have tried to be more understanding and preventing Isidora from going down the path she did.
Most of the arguments are pretty subjective, since the extremely shortened memories through the Pensieves leave almost everything out, but the last is the most important: the Keepers believed the Ancient Magic was effectively a dirty nuke, and the Keepers preserved it instead of trying to defuse it, or preparing the way for a future wizard to defuse it. As Far As I Can Tell, during the game Ranrok used up at least 2 Repositories worth of this "dirty nuke" magic, and since he had no means of creating more, his rebellion was doomed to failure after using it all up!
I also notice how they never explained fully why people with Ancient Magic power join as a fifth years. I may have missed something but the explanation I got is basically that is how the Keeper and Isadora joined Hogwarts and now we should.
Maybe they dont have accidental magic. You have to will it enough or the owners can only use it through a wand wich makes it not show up without a foci
Yeah, I was kind of annoyed with how many times it's mentioned that we joined as a fifth year, but they gave no explanation. We also never attended Professor Figs' class, like what does he even teach?
@@lilacsunshine3132
He teaches Magic Theory, but yeah, it’s odd we never even attend his class.
I understand that Isidora was a danger, and I understand that she needed to be stopped. But it upset me to see how quickly she was killed. And then the Keepers destroyed nearly everything she left behind and silenced her, since I'm sure they destroyed Isidora's portrait. I wish we knew more about the story from Isidora's perspective. I admire that she was able to set up a trial of her own, so elaborate that even the Keepers couldn't find it, so we could see at least one memory from her perspective.
Sure, we probably shouldn't follow in Isidora's footsteps, but it would have been nice to know her side of the story. It is so important to know all side of the story before making a decision. The Keepers' trust issues are not there for no reason, but they stripped that choice from us.
I agreed with Sebastian when he basically pointed out that the Keepers weren't giving us enough information. He was the one to bring up that we should know the story from Isidora's perspective. I'm not entirely sure, but I think according to canon, Pensieve memories are biased, as they're shown from the perspective of the people who put them there.
I completely agree that had the Keepers been more open to the study of Ancient Magic, and actually tried talking to Isidora about how far they could go, all that drama under Hogwarts could have been avoided. And you know who else mirrors this situation? Sebastian and Solomon.
Isadora's cure was turning people into Tranquils from Dragon Age.
"You have bad dreams and emotions? Why don't I just delete your capacity to have any at all?" - apt comparison btw
Glad I'm not the only one who thought of the Tranquil lol
@@biornr.4031 That's exactly what happened and explained in the game. While at the moment Isidora's father felt relieved when his pain was removed. Due to the lack of pain, there's no joy to be had as well, as pain and joy are two sides of the same coin. Removing one, will remove the other. And Isidora's father end up like a vegetable, unable to feel anything.
This is clearly bait. You can't possibly have reached that conclusion after playing the game. 1- The keepers weren't against the use of ancient magic, they just didn't liked the idea of messing with pain and emotions. Accepting suffering as a part of what life is, is an important part of the Harry Potter universe, lore, ethos (?). Harry had to accept death to be able to defeat Voldemort, Voldemort did unspeakable things because he didn't accepted an important part of life (death). Same thing with Isadora. 2- We are shown the keepers using ancient magic in almost all of their memories. They saved Isadora's village from the draught using it. That's why she says she saw swirls of magic all around that day.Those swirls are not of regular magic origin, they are ancient magic swirls, Professor Fig explains this to you during the opening mission. 3- You can't say that The keepers aren't realiable, but then accept that Isadora did wrong because of what's shown in Bakar's memory. (her father turning a husk of his former self). 4- What's stored in the repository isn't just ancient magic. It's whatever Isadora took from the students of Hogwarts. 5- You aren't expected to rely only on what the keepers shown you. You are shown proof of how bad that stored thing is throughout the game, Ranrok is using it to control dragons, his minions and possibly even turning some fauna more violent. (as stated by Poppy in the way to Horntail Hall). 6- Avada Kedavra was perfectly legal and not an unforgivable curse the time Bakar used it. They are from the 15th century, the unforgivables became unforgivables around the 1700s. 7- The trials were designed to be completed over a longer period of time, the keepers had to rush it because of the threat Ranrok represented. They made it abundantly clear that was the case. That's why they are insufferable.
The keepers did use magic to save isadoras hamlet so that proves that they did use ancient magic for good. I think they were right to be cautious because if isadora never created a spell to remove emotion everything would have continued the way it had been with using ancient magic only for small things. I have to agree with Niamh when she said that just because we can do things doesn’t always mean we should. It’s horrible everybody is in some kind of pain for example I have debilitating daily chronic migraines , but if I had to choose to either be who I am and have my emotions or be pain free and a zombie, I’ll choose the pain and keep my emotions. What isadora was trying to do starting out was was good intentional but I felt the story proved with isadora why Rackham was cautious. Maybe it’s because I’m the odd ball out, I’m an extremely cautious person when it comes to power and inventions and I think we always have to think through pros and cons and I felt Isadora didn’t even try to think about why the keepers were so cautious she was so set on curing her father never stopping to think of the ramifications and consequences of taking part of him. It’s horrible he was so depressed he became mute, but I just don’t think it was her burden to take. She already took care of him and I think that’s all that she should have done. I’ve dealt with depression myself, but we all have burdens to bear and we can let them break us or make us who we are as stronger people and help to encourage others. Maybe it’s just cause I’m a gryffindor/hufflepuff but that’s just my take because I’ve seen a lot of people hate on the keepers and I was so baffled
I think the Keepers did use ancient magic to help with the drought and help people by altering the physical world while drawing the line at messing with emotions and pain. In defense of San Bakar, I think he reacted to thinking Maeve had been killed, because he had a look of regret (I think) when he realized she was alive. Coupled with the fact that Avada Kadavra wasn't unforgivable at that time, it's not as bad. It doesn't make it pure and good either of course, but I think it sets it in context as grey area. Also he had just found her husk of a father and then learned she was doing the same thing to his students...possibly against their will as she had shown a willingness to do that to Maeve earlier. Again, not making his decision all sunshine and rainbows, but it does make him appear to me to have made a more emotional and clouded choice to shoot to kill, rather than a sinister murderer.
In the end, I don't think the story makes them villains, but it doesn't make them pure hearted angels either. A lot of the lessons in the Wizarding World tend to end in the lesson that people are people, and make choices because they are people, less than because they are good or bad. They're just people being people.
I think and mind this is a theory he was probably in love with Maeve so when he thought Isodra had killed her he reacted like any person would when they think their loved one is dead and their friends are in danger.
*Niamh (pronounced as NEE-VE) not Maeve, but I agree.
Nothing Isidora could say will justify using her students as test experiments. She's no better than Voldemort. The only difference is, atleast Voldemort was honest for his thirst for power.
The only regret i have is i didnt avada her.
I disagree with your opinion mate! Isidora is the actual reason why the keepers don’t trust anyone with this ancient magic power! She used this knowledge on students! Without knowing the side effects and also she was consuming the stored pain to became more powerful which was an indication that she was corrupted already
i mean they did good with it. Isadora turned a ton of people into husks. i think she was mad with it, she was inhaling it.
and they didn’t murder her, isadora attacked them.
your doing exactly what you say the keepers did. you are creating a narrative that goes against what a large portion of the game is telling as the main story
Just going to point out that being apprehensive about studying something you know has immense potential for danger doesn't make you a villain, nor does presenting a biased account of events... ALL personal accounts of events are biased in some form, nor does killing an observably dangerous witch whose motivation would be very compelling to an adolescent student, given they're still going to be in the throes of puberty, and as such, wouldn't want them to follow the same line of thinking by having said student have unbridled access to the innermost mental machinations of a deranged lunatic. In other words, none of what you've said is in any way villainous behaviour, just understandable and necessary methods of minimizing the risk of ANOTHER Isidorah Morganach.
Its like people half grasped the whole thing. Yes the keepers were wrong for hiding it, but they were right. Isadoras actions followed the EXACT path they said it would. If not for our character existing Ranrok would have won. Or if we could ACTUALLY be evil in the game.
I experienced quite a bit of ludonarrative dissonance as Isadora's story unfolded, because I had just spent the entire game absorbing "ancient magic" (do wizards not believe in naming things?) by attacking complete strangers so that I could literally disintegrate other strangers. By comparison, Isadora's misuse of this form of magic seems pretty tame. I'm hurting people to absorb the magic that I then use to hurt or kill more people, while she's healing someone in order to use that magic but simply doesn't realize that the cure is worse than the disease. Moreover, is there no one at St. Mungo's who would have been helped by this magic despite the risks? Seriously? Isn't it at least worth giving it a try? If you can take someone's pain away, wouldn't that make an effective counter to the Cruciatus curse? It's like the Keepers weren't even curious about it at all, all of their actions were driven entirely by fear.
I know your post is a year old, but yes their actions were entirely driven by fear, I expected much better of magical educators on progressing branches of magic. All the keepers proved is that they can't be trusted, their trials were farcical & they didn't teach us anything about our power. They wanted us to listen to their every word view Isadora as aunhinged villain that desvered to be put down & complete their nonsensical sanctimonious tests just so they could dump responsability of a magical bomb on a 15 year old. Look at bakar ignoring a current threat day just because he insited on us to complete is tedious trial he's a massive hypocrite & a pompous basterd.
Because hiding secrets we don't understand fully always ends so well.
I figured the keepers destroyed the painting. But... from what i can gather, the keepers used ancient magic to save feldcrodt, which is why Isadora saw traces of it fucking everywhere afterwards, which she later conveyed to Rookwood.
The keepers werent just sitting on their asses with this magic. They knew how to use it. But they also knew that there was so much potential damage that could be done, so... caution makes sense. Isadora demonstrated how much damage could be done with it, and she doesnt even realize it.
I get why Isadora took the actions she did. She just wanted to help heal the pain of others. But she never considered the consequences, or how far too far would be. As Rackham said "Its not your pain to take". And Fitzgerald expanded upon with "There is no light without shadow. Just because you can take away pain, doesnt always mean that you should."
Perhaps after the main game, after everything, the intent was for you to have an open and completely honest conversation about all of this. The repository is safe. And now you have a counsel of people who know as much as is known about it to the world. You could discuss all of it. If it can heal dark magic curses without touching emotions. If there is any way to know what sorts of pain you should be able to take, and whats off limits. If any. Other uses for this ancient magic that they havent explored. The map chamber being a safe environment to test this stuff out without hurting anyone.
Maybe this is the keeper's intention. Now that they know, that you understand the gravity of such power, the true training and teaching can begin.
When Isidora was killed, *Avada Kedavra wasn't unforgivable yet* . As per Wizarding world wiki , the death curse classified as unforgivable by the *Ministry of Magic in 1717* along with the two other curses.
The keepers and Isidora timeline was 2 to 3 centuries back with respect to Hogwarts Legacy which is taking place in *1890-1891* .
Still I liked Sebastian shallow more engaging .Hope they release DLC in this regard
My first playthrough I didnt take the power, but on my second one I did.
After much thought I felt that it was good to take it because as isadora said "in the right hands it can be used for good." And obviously to me my character is good and has big things a head of them, its right that they get the power.
My other reasons for taking it was because 1) I thought about the student who came after my character (stupid I know) but what if they would use it for bad? (Dont ask me why I though about the "future" for a game choice LOL)
2) as professor fig said the people that died because of it, and in my opinion I thought it as "the ones who died for it." Because his wife and the one that dies by the dragon made it their life work to find the magic. It was only finishing what they started and the devs did a wonderful job adding the 'thank you.' To figs wife for leading them there.
And finally 3) Sebastian sallow. Not only because Sebastian is a ride or die but because his story is literally bleeding into your own characters. Everything started with fieldcroft, Rookwood/Rookwood trials, ranrok, his hatred for goblins and of course Anne.
Not only the stories but also the way you and him are connected right away, the trust and yearning to figure out your sides of the story. Him believing you can and will use the powers putting even Anne in the back of his mind for a while because he tells you "you can do what isadora can, just press the keepers." Not even caring about the outcome because he knew you'd use it for good vs the final keeper who either choice (agree or not) about isadoras decisions belittled you and tells you "you cant handle this power." Yet one shots isadora with the killing curse without letting her explain , and then the game wants me to banish sebastian for doing it when he was actually in the right? Nah.
In the end, I agree that taking that power was the best ending vs a couple pictires that have no power over the next keepers will. I dont think the keepers were evil so to speak, but I dont think theyd the right to hold such magic.
My logic was (story wise), I kept it contained until I could further do more research on it. Isidora became unhinged by the end of it (so did Ranrok), it being magic derived from strong emotional magic (pain), made them mad.
I want power yes, but not power that could end up controlling or destroying me. I would have plenty of time to be understand it, do research and slowly learn to master it, without losing my mind.
Game wise,
It didn't make sense to me, because it changes nothing of the outcome or ending; Fig dies, Ranrok dies, and I go back to school to finish the year and "prepare" for my owls.
What makes you think you're better then her and Ranrock? They both had their ideals to follow and thought they were right, just like you. With such power it is highly unlikely that anyone would be able to resist interfering in matters that are none of their concern and becoming a villian to some, if not many
@@SaphireKancer90 personally I didnt think she became unhinged. I actually agreed with her more by the end of my second playthrough than the first. I found keeping it contained wasnt worth all the work youd gone through just to bottle it up again, wtf not have an ending with taking it. Its not like you were going to follow in the previous two's footsteps anyway.
@@matthewzaslavets8423 because its my character, my idea and my playthrough? They dont give you a specific ending in showing you what you do with the power once you get it so I just finished it as a good ending in my head where the game leaves you off as.
Besides I never once mentioned I was better than them to begin with, I was only stating the difference in my playthroughs and where I felt more strongly pulled to once I finished each ending.
@@matthewzaslavets8423 plus in my book there wasnt an evil ending to begin with. If you take the power then you're getting what you deserve, what you went through the trials for. If you dont take it , then its just kinda there to be locked for eternity. You cant use it in the end and I get why leaving it there made no difference vs taking it. But i found the "evil ending." As some put it to be the better one.
Interesting theory but i don’t see it. Isadora got ahead of herself, they had to stop her cause she was experimenting on the students.
The Keepers were flawed human beings. Powerful wizard flawed human beings but nonetheless still that.
I’m with you that they made mistakes and let Isadora spiral out of control when they could have taken control of the situation much earlier and possibly saved her in the process but that doesn’t make them villains. By the time they realize they have to stop Isadora, she’s gone full Palpatine and has to be dealt with.
They didn’t “kill her in cold blood” since they tried to reason with her, and she attacked them. I don’t think it’s killing someone in cold blood when they’re trying to kill you first and then critically hurt someone in your group badly. It was presented as a last resort choice before she started killing everyone.
While I don't completely disagree with some of your premise, you got some facts wrong. The keepers use ancient magic(you said magic, but it's ancient magic) in feldcroft. So they do learn and explore ancient magic. Percival is even seen teaching Isidora how to use it.
They just weren't willing to use it on people. But they did make a lot of mistakes
I strongly disagree with you. Isadora was a lunatic. And the keepers wanted to study it, but in a control scenario. The proof is that they allow her to use it.
Her pensieve was a surprise because the person that see her memories could find the repository without undergoing the trials. In the end, their plan was flawed, but werent the villains.
Also, I believe the unforgivable curses only became unforgivable after the Keepers time.
Despite my disagreement, I have enjoyed your video. Congrats and keep doing it!
Unless I misunderstood the only problem with this theory is you think what she pulled out of her father and others is ancient magic that was something else she used ancient magic to pull that out of them. All 5 of them can use ancient magic.
The keepers USED ANCIENT MAGIC to save that town from the drought. They're not against using ancient magic. They're against removing people's emotions. Even removing pain is taking away a part of that person's personality... Part of their soul. And then Isadora just stored all of the magically removed pain in the repositories. So the magic in the repositories is all twisted and dark because it's been tainted by the negative emotions it was used to remove from people.
Finally someone who understands, pain is often associated with growth, for example experiencing the pain of loss for the first time can allow for growth in the form of understanding death is inevitable.
Removing someone's pain is like removing their growth thus removing an important part of their character.
😂
Idk, I can see them controlling the narrative as a bad thing. But I don't think that makes them the villains. From their perspective they were honest with their intentions with Isadora. Their goal was to keep the ancient magic secret from those who might abuse it. They had no intention of studying it further. They had seen all they needed from the magic to understand that it needed to be kept from the world. Seeing it become corrupt the way Isadora had shown them only strengthened their beliefs. She was living proof of someone who'd abuse that power for personal gain, even if it was well intentioned. It had led to what appeared to be the death of the headmistress, the corruption of Isadora, and the emotionless husk that became her father. I don't necessarily blame them for trying to control the narrative and I don't believe that makes them the villains. I believe it makes them flawed mentors. The trials were set as a means to guide whomever viewed their pensive's on the path of a keeper. Do I think they should have shared that knowledge with the rest of the world? I'm not sure. Considering the ministry of magic's incompetence seen throughout the series including this one, I wouldn't be surprised if their regulation over ancient magic would inadvertently back fire. I'm not saying that trying to understand it is bad, or their biased viewpoint and unwillingness to share Isadora's side of the story is good, but I will say their paranoia and caution is warranted given all they know.
i don't agree with Isadora's potrait
that house got burn down by rockwood and his crew we know it cause anne was eye witness
most likely Isadora didn't help or couldn't (since she died in the cave by the keeprs and didn't tell her potrait that)and got destroyed
angry with some boosted ancient magic cursed anne as result
6:38 a part of me know the dev know...to do avada kedavra you need to want to kill them ...your hate is needed to make that spell work
I may have found the keepers cryptic and annoying sometimes, but I don't think they were wrong at all. Isadora was an unhinged lunatic. Being close minded about someone wanting to remove all negative emotion from the world using a not well understood form of magic doesn't make them wrong. And they did not murder her in cold blood at all. She was already taking it way too far and was not going to stop. Did what they had to do.
Something else worth noting: Isidora probably doesn't know the negative effects removing pain could have. When San Bakar visits her father and discovers his state, it's likely been an extended amount of time, and Isidora probably hadn't seen him in a bit due to her schedule being full, what with her study of ancient magic and teaching DADA full time. When the Keepers do show up to confront her, notice how nobody brings up the state of her father, it's all just "you've gone down the wrong path" stuff. Also, there is a good possibility that the loss of all emotions was a special case specific to her father. I mean, she took enough pain to fill up multiple repositories, so how would the Keepers cover up all those people losingvtheir emotions? Unless they didn't. Isidora's father was consumed with grief at the loss of his son. If pain is all you feel, and someone takes their pain, what's left?
TL:DR the Keepers murdered a fellow teacher without telling her what their concerns were, even though their concerns were likely invalid...
There were using ancient magic to help save Feldcroft from the drought. It's not like they never used it. It was Rackham who could see it, not the other keepers. But he taught them to wield it. And they taught Isidora how to wield it, which she did when transfiguring the pillars before going crazy. It was her desperation to help her father that drove her to were she was. Sounds familiar considering Sebastian's story quests. "The path to hell is paved with good intentions." In Rackham's memory of Isidora pulling pain from her father, you see tendrils of magic continuing to spill outward, but that part of the memory is changed with Isidora's. You kinda see a swift shift away from that moment in her memory. They didn't alter it because they didn't even know she left it. She did, and likely from her convincing herself she was doing the right thing. Isidora didn't really have a grasp on the specific type of ancient magic she was using, which led to the emotion continuing to spill out. Which is why we see it clouding the floor in Isidora's home in Bakar's memory, and her father becoming completely emotionless. That's not to say she didn't "perfect" her technique afterwards to prevent that from happening again with other's. And in Isidora's mind, she probably thought that her father being emotionless was better than him feeling any pain. As for Bakar using an unforgivable, they weren't unforgivable back then.
Ancient magic is not the problem. The problem is that Isadora went too far with it. So it makes no sense to seal it away when we're the only person who can really use it. Might as well just take the power and ensure we don't abuse it.
Agree sad part had they work with her they could have done so much good but then we wouldn’t have the game
I think you should stay as far away from it as possible, hire volunteers that would be willing to carry the emotions and either die with them or grief etc through them in order to slowly deplete it. Or feed it to dementors however that could breed more of them.
Agreed. He even says he won't repeat Isadora's mistakes. I think it's a good ending.
is that what made her basically evil? She got totally high on it sniffing it. So much power changes anyone.
Went too far like Sebastian
The Keepers: We need to study and understand this new from of ancient magic.
Isadora: No, we need to use it to make the world a better place, I just need something to store all the negative emotions from the villagers I've been experimenting on! If you won't help me, I'll push ahead recklessly to achieve my ends without your decades of experience!
This video: The Keepers didn't want to study this form of ancient magic, and are actually the villains!
The keepers are the villains.
Our 15 year old Character shouldn't have to play janitor to clean up someone's else messes.
Hiding a secret dark magic inside a ball underneath a cave what COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!
OH!, I know!
Evil Goblin decided to go insane and take his hated out on Wizardkind because he got bullied by ONE!
Taking his hated out on our poor 15 year old student who just wanted to have a normal wizard school life.
This is why, I hate the Keepers because our character didn't consent to this and was forced to do this because the Keepers are too lazy and dead to clean up after their messes.
@@Whocares158 When I played the game, I found the Keeper's reluctance to trust The Student annoying - all of them, with the exception of Niamh Fitzgerald, believe that The Student is too young to take on the responsibility, with San Bakar being the worst as his reluctance is two-fold, believing The Student both too young and having concerns of the morality of The Student
The only mistake that the Keepers made was not knowing that Bragbor the Boastful kept records, which is what clued in Ranrok to the existence of the repositories.
If not for that, The Student would have been feed clues about the existence of Ancient Magic thorough Niamh Fitzgerald - as she knew about The Student through her portrait in the Headmaster's office. Eventually, The Student would have been guided to discover the key, likely as a 7th-year, and would have undergone the trials then.
Yes, a 15-year-old who hadn't even completed their OWLs should never have been asked to clean up the mess caused by a single mistake made by four fully qualified wizards five hundred years in the past, but that doesn't make them the villains.
While Ranrok relates a sob-story about him encountering a group of poachers and an illegal dragon camp, he demonstrates no sympathy for dragons in later life, using goblin silver and ancient magic to enslave the animals for the entertainment of wizards and for his future war on wizard-kind. I also very much doubt that Ranrok just 'picked up' the dropped wand - he was likely trying to use it before he was nearly beat to death. Not hearing the story first-hand, not being able to ask follow-up questions, you have to wonder if the narrator is reliable.
Oh man I would sacrifice 75% of the soulless open world in a heartbeat for an extension to the storyline, clearing everything up, adding more details and more content, ideally making the story take place over at least the first 5 years with choices and consequences and actual relationships with the companions.
And while the game certainly doesnt make a full case for the keepers, nor for Isidora being "evil" (tho you can see how she enjoys being more powerful than her teachers during the fight, she was going down that way), its clear that messing with someones emotions, especially without their consent, and even more so when it can and seemingly does lead to an even bigger blowback down the road is clearly way beyond somethign that should be studied, Isidora proved why the magic is so dangerous and why studying it as she did can bring unwanted eyes and dangerous hands to it, as much as the keepers are total wet blankets, the magic being discovered and nearly falling to ranrok was entirely Isidora's fault. And as you say, and as we see, they are not opposed to using the magic for good, just secretly, I think had Isidora worked with them and set slightly less godlike goals like rid the world of pain certainly is, they would work with her in my opinion.
Also, learning more about the magic and understanding it better, researching it in no way precludes it from still being used for evil in the future, if anything it only leaves more for people to find and use like with Ranrok. Neither option is perfect, it could do a lot of good but also a lot of evil but considering what is potentially at stake I think erring on the side of caution is wise.
The repositories didn't contain ancient magic as much as it contained the stuff Isadora drew out of people when she wasn't snorting it like cocaine.
That is what made it dangerous. We can use our knowledge of what Isadora did and what she did wrong without using the tainted magic from the repositories.
Anne's problem is physical from what I can tell and removing her emotions will not save her, but I think it can be done.
It’s not pure ancient magic but tainted ancient magic. That’s a really big diffrence.
Especially because it turned Isidora into an addict.
Bakar used the only spell able to stop Isidora at this specific moment.
Isidora acted like an immature young person, who thinks no one should suffer at all. Yes her father couldn’t live normally after loosing his son, but it wasn’t her duty to fix him. She was a traumatised daddy’s girl, then she became addicted to a tainted power.
(Loosing a child and a brother must be unberable, it allows us to be more understanding towards Sebastian fear of loosing his twin sister.❤)
I will respond by framing what happened with the keepers with a modern synonym. If I make it against the law for someone to test unknown technology on humans, I am not responsible for the lives a rogue scientist destroys testing the technology because I restricted him or refused to compromise with him. The ends do not ever justify the means, no matter what helpful advances that scientist made. And I would hope no one would question me representing this scientist as what he is, a monster not to be idolized.
You are willingly misrepresenting what the game showed. The keepers where not hiding away ancient magic. They were hiding away ancient magic born of pain, powers that where completely unknown and obtained in a brutally unethical fashion. It was a power that they felt was completely morally wrong to even tamper with, and took the best measures to ensure it was not that they could with limited knowledge. Whether or not you agree with that, a reasonable person could understand why they felt that way.
The depiction they give of Isadora lines up completely with the writings and memory Isadora left behind. They depicted a witch who had willingly and knowingly crossed a line that should not be crossed, who ventured well beyond reason once she started experimenting on Hogwarts students. They did not depict her as "unstable" as you have said, they depicted her as wrong. And they're portrayal of her was spot on.
At the end of the day, the actions of others does not remove us of our responsibility for our actions. Isadora was fully in the wrong.
Sounds more like a conspiracy theory.
So the Keepers were the villains because they sealed away magic formed by pain and negative emotion? Because they didn’t seal it away better? Because they didn’t study it? Didn’t handle Isadoras situation better (in hindsight)?
Failing to see what makes them so evil.
Also, not to point out the obvious but who is the hero that can define them as the villains? Isadora?! If anything I think “villain” is a poor choice in labeling them because I think a point can be made in your case but not by labeling them as evil to the stories plot.
So what you’re saying is that no one in the game is “good”, gut but in my game I, Mac Knight am the paragon of good, I shall save the day!
To me isadora is bad to you don’t see what she was doing to her dad and her students like girl that your father those are kids! that kind of power can be dangerous and deadly in the wrong hands. That why they try to stop her but she didn’t
I was playing it again this week, and noticed that the chalkboards in the undercroft have something written about ancient magic on them. Most of it i cant make out, but it has the ancient magic swirl and one of them says "Percival is hiding something"
Ok I’m just going to say it in a good way the keepers aren’t the villains in the game there just trying to do the right thing
This is a very uncharitable interpretation of the events. It’s equivalent to saying Dumbledore is the villain because he didn’t sharing everything with Harry. No, people make mistakes and have poor judgement, but that doesn’t make them responsible for other people’s actions. Parents that teach abstinence are not responsible for their child being pregnant, and scientists that said no to nuclear research are not responsible for other scientists choosing to do it. Asking why they only showed their perspective is obvious… they thought it was dangerous. Even if they did destroy her portrait that’s a bad choice, but not villainess. The keepers set the current events in motion, but they are not villains. Calling them villains is very uncharitable.
You do realize that you have just explained the differences between the Sith and Jedi? Just a thought. Instead of understanding the need for a balance, they decided to just put a wall around it. From both sides.
Never thought about it that way though it fits perfectly yeah
Pretty true. But you cannot really call the Jedi evil in the same way (ideologically, kidnaping children does make them evil, but I'm not talking about that). The keepers didn't to anything bad by limiting access and knowledge about ancient magic, and Jedi wanted to be one with the force. Ideologically both are at worst grey, while both Sith and the girl are objectively evil
@@matthewzaslavets8423 Jedi almost never kidnap children, though. Only one case that we know of, and only because they thought the parents was dead, and once they found out the mother was alive, they had already opened the infants mind to the Force, and thus the Jedi considered it too dangerous to go back to the Mother. Otherwise, they ask promission.
@@knightsaber3155 almost never kidnapping children is still pretty evil. Never kidnapping them sounds much better. There could also be the case that they may take one child but leave the other just because the first one is more gifted, which is not just inhumane, but also wrong on their part (although that's on the old Republic jedi, I don't think modern ones did so)
@@matthewzaslavets8423 I mean if we're counting Disney!Wars, endangering a planet full of sapient life for the sole purpose of teaching a single Padawan a moral lesson (this actually happened) is pretty dang evil. As for the second part of that, that's the kinda thing jedi probably would never have done in the first place unless it's a case of the less talented individual literally not being force-sensitive at all, or having their hands tied. They might not necessarily force every force-sensitive (heh) into their order, but they certainly didn't like other force orders (even lightside ones, which they did at least tolerate), and they've effectively never really been shown to care *that* much about aptitude, beforehand. Frankly that whole scene is more something a sith would have done.
As for the balance thing in the original comment--the Light and the Dark side are not Yin and Yang. They're not two opposites kept in balance or flux. The Force in balance *is* the "light side." The Dark Side is the act of bending the force to a user's will to get a desired, typically negative result--it is in essence, an act of perversion--though it is worth noting, some lightsiders do make limited use of this process (the tricky part is that power is seductive, especially cheap and quick power). This is coming from someone who does find the Sith cooler than the jedi, too, by the way.
The narrative makes it looks like absorbing/consuming feelings extracted with ancient magic can change you, or maybe be addictive.
It's always the same... A great power imply great responsibility. They just think that it was too much of power to let it go freely at this time... This is why they keep it safe in a way they had back then. And this is why it's let free to access to someone who, they hope, would be wise enough to see at his time if it could be different. Otherwise you don't let access, you loose it somewhere, where you are sure that there is low probability to be found back.
If the world is not ready yet you keep it safe until some time pass and a new person will have access again and do the same process. The way they give informations by step is also to allow the one who learn, to not make a shortcut and see the full path which will lead him to the possibility to make the choice.
This is how I see it even if it's simplified a little bit.
It's like to give the code to the nuclear power to a guy and then realize that this guy is not wise at all and even dangerous. Then, it's almost too late and the only choice you have left to avoid an holocaust, is to do what you would never have done otherwise, remove this guy from the equation while you still can. Does it makes you a bad guy who acts against the principe he teaches, or a good guy who had to sacrifice his principes to save everything. Great responsibility imply sometime difficult choices.
I don't think those portraits are condescending but the mistake they made in the past to think that more people could be responsible enough lead them to understand that not everybody can, obviously. Something tells me that you wouldn't do a good usage of that power, would you?
I am not exactly full on board or agreeing with all the keepers decided as they are really judgemental with you and really don't even teach you nothing about your gift and how you should use it not even to make the damn pretty pillars but I could never think on them as the bad guys. Isidora actually became addicted on get the pain of people letting behind people like her father and was doing it on another ones... Children whats even worse. At this point it wasn't anymore about her helping anyone she was getting it from take that pain like if she was using drugs. I would never want that ball of literal pain so for me it stayed closed up forever but I really wanted to find ways of using the ancient magic that our character has to another suff even if only to make that beautiful architecture (teach me to do the damn pillars game). The only thing I would do with that ball of freaking pain power if I could would be finding a way to dissolve it without destroying the school so no one could use it. The end as it is let me worried that anyone in the future could just find it and destroy the entire world after I am not there anymore.
It is completely possible that all those hints about Keepers likely not telling us everything (pointing out that Isadora´s painting being destroyed looks like it was intentional, Sebastian saying the Keepers are just playing with us, etc.), is because they are part of an abandoned storyline that was cut just like many other features in the game. Wouldn´t be suprised if this plot went through several rewrites over the years when game was being made, and there was originally supposed to be more to Isadora´s story than what is then eventually revealed to us in the final product.
I already knew in which direction you would go and I completely agree.
The Keepers where acting their age.
It is new, when don't understand it, so we fear it. Don't use it.
So, I really enjoyed your video and thought you made a lot of really valid points, but I do want to point out that the keepers had lived about 400 years before Hogwarts Legacy, and the unforgivable curses did not become unforgivable in the UK until 1717, so when San Bakar killed Isadora, his methods were perfectly legal.
Uh the keepers weren't against using all ancient magic they where against the pain infused magical byproduct that Isadora stored in the repositories and how she went about taking it and misusing it. Also the pain infused ancient magic in those repositories though powerfull is very risky to use and may actually amplify negative emotions / dark thoughts. Leading to corruption of ones mind/ magic. Since pain often leads to the following byproducts: anxiety, anger, depression etc... Those able to move past pain are able to grow stronger naturally. Taking away pain likely also takes away part of the potential needed to overcome it. Isadora stole that potential for herself and was hoarding it like a dragon.
The keepers are essentially the Jedi In starwars. They are so afraid of the dark side and hate anyone who even thinks about it. But luke had it right. He believed the jedi were flawed and both the dark and light side should be treated equally. He wasn't against completely banning his students from learning the dark ways. He just focused on being the best teacher he could be, hoping that his students would learn right from wrong themselves. Instead of taking the elitist way the jedi did in the prequels. HLs story about the keepers is very similar to this. The keepers should have taught her about the dark arts and why it was important to not use it instead of forbidding it entirely and just telling her "no" at evrey turn. Cause they essentially created their version of an anakin skywalker for their universe.
Ill say this, i love absolutely evreything about Hogwarts Legacy. EXCEPT the story.. besides the story and how it was told, my only other issues are with the many cut features and content that was clearly planned then removed.. but what we DO have in the game (minus the story) is literally why its still my favorite HP/wizarding world game ever made.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
You can see how Isadora explored the ancient magic. It is similar to "human experiments" that happens in real life and what he did to his father is almost patricide. Living without emotions is not living at all.
I agree that the keepers are also not good guys and are at the absolute end of the opposite spectrum but if I had to choose which side I would take, I would take theirs. If a single Isadora or Ranrok could endanger the world, what more if the knowledge about the ancient magic becomes public.
Just my opinion on the matter.
So many wrong things said in this. To stop the drought it was ancient magic they used. Isodora says upon talking to the keepers she saw the traces when she was younger. Therefore they used ancient magic. It's not all ancient magic they didn't want being used. In the trials MC has to use ancient magic to get through them. The ancient magic they kept hidden was corrupted ancient magic Isodora created when pulling people's emotions.
While playing, I couldn’t help being reminded of famous scientists in history who were persecuted for challenging the status quo. Isadora could’ve been a Galileo of her time.
What a Slytherin thing to say
They may seem like the enemy by keeping a giant secret made by Isidora. I think they could have done more for her family. But I agree that emotions the pain should not be taken out of people in form of ancient magic and the fact that she attacked first and didn't think of the consequences of her actions. The keepers were right but could have done more to prevent it
And that's the same reason Solomon should have been helping and supervising Sebastian, rather than shouting at the kid, calling him stubborn as an insult, making said insult personal by comparing Sebastian to his father who Sebastian probably saw suffocate to death, and refusing to even engage in the idea of curing Anne.
Shutting down people driven by desperation only forces them to do it in secret, and that desperation combined with alienation and isolation makes them unchecked and unstable and more prone to bad decisions.
Your interpretation of the keepers is a little off my guy. I would say it's safe to say they were studying it they were just against using it on people. And when she showed that she could take away pain, 3 of the 4 for all about looking more into this while 1 was wary but did not contradict. The keepers even encourage your character to go out to ancient's magic spots and gain more power. They're trials and reluctance to give too much information is understandable seeing last time they gave all that information freely someone went crazy with it.
Moral of the story: teaching abstinence doesn't work.
Play the game again. They were all using ancient magic, as shown with the ancient magic glow that surrounded them. They used it to help, like ending the drought in Isadora's hometown. Isadora took it down a different path, removing emotions that had darker results. Isadora's use caused the ancient magic to take on a darker glow. A hint something was definitely not right.