As a flight instructor and air traffic controller who is already involved in trying to improve ATC training about inflight emergencies, I thought that this video was excellent. Pilots, please do not forget that you are the PIC and if you need help please do not hesitate to declare an emergency. This is especially true when you get into those murky VFR-in-MVFR situations where things are starting to become unsafe. Also, whenever needed, do not hesitate to say "unable" to a controller if we start throwing too much at you too fast. "Unable" and "mayday/emergency" are two words (three?) that every pilot should be willing to say when needed.
Hey there, Dean. I believe you and I had this exact discussion at SnF last year (or maybe the year before). Anything that we can do to get pilots using ATC services, and getting controllers to put themselves into the heads of the pilots, can only have great results. Like you, I really enjoyed this video.
@@GoldSealFlight Numerous calls / PM's in the last 48 hours from managers at US ARTCC facilities that thanked us for doing this drill and including this ATC aspect / they are using this video as content for in house future staff meetings! The positive constructive conversations that it has started has been profound! I think an invitation is underway for Chops to speak to an ATC managers group! Cool!
I would add "Standby" to the two/three words every pilot should be willing to say to ATC. We become conditioned to respond promptly to every ATC call however this should never eat into our mental reserves to the point of saturation.
I'd like to give a shout out to Wellington Approach in NZ. I was flying across some water uncontrolled and realized the cloud in front of me was getting uncomfortably low. I started to do a 180 away from it and they immediately got hold of me, asked me if everything was OK, and when I explained the situation offered to clear me into controlled airspace with a heading to my destination. Just hearing that voice come through my headset made a whole lot of pressure go away for this low time pilot.
Just to be clear here as well - I wasn't ever in any danger of going into IMC, but I was just so impressed that a controller noticed me do something "odd" on his screen and took the initiative to get hold of me and check that I was OK.
Steeltrap I agree. I always try to remember that it’s a person on the other end of the radio, and since that incident I’ve never been afraid to ask them for assistance. That one controller made my flying a lot safer.
I had an ATC tower controller “tower Joe “ in my ears when piloting a crash event. After the ordeal I vist the tower, Joe looked at me checking my ‘status’ .. we both where emotional, eyes got a bit wet. F that coffee was strong 💪. I was so happy he was talking to me on the way down. Note : after the crash I called 911 and got hold of the tower to tell them I was alive. Joe’s boss almost demanded to collect a tower coffee
As a pilot and a controller I understand where Dan is going with this training, however, controllers are NOT trained to "talk you down" like what is seen in the movies, and we are definitely not trained to give instructions on how to fly the aircraft. ATC are NOT flight instructors and are in no way trained to fly any sort of aircraft as part of controller training. We are not familiar with various systems on an aircraft or how to maintain any amount of control. Any information you do receive from a controller (like the "wings-level" instruction) is most likely coming from a controller with flight experience and is taking it upon themselves to give that information. In the vast majority of cases, controllers have no idea how to fly an airplane, what your workload in the cockpit may consist of, or how to get you out of whatever situation you got into. We as controllers MUST abide by rules governing ATC in the FAA JO 7110.65 (which is why you get the "maintain VFR" instruction so much. If you're not able to maintain VFR, you are expected to declare an emergency rather than expect the controller to start giving additional information on their own accord. After declaring an emergency, yes you absolutely will receive the best handling available while other aircraft standby) Controllers (RADAR specifically) are not necessarily aware of weather limitations obscuring visibility or how bad things actually are in your area. Tower controllers may be able to help more due to the nature of being at the top of a window-wrapped building. What a controller CAN do for you is to give you the Minimum Vectoring Altitude (MVA) in your area which guarantees terrain and obstruction clearance. Controllers CAN give you vectors to an area with a lower MVA to help get below a layer of weather. Controllers CAN make phone calls to emergency services. SOME controllers are familiar enough with their area that they may provide additional information (such as "fly directly towards the smokestacks") but that is not guaranteed at all. Even information available on the VFR sectional is not something that a controller is necessarily familiar with. I fully support the change in attitude towards how pilots are training and would love to see this training implemented elsewhere, but please do not think for a minute that a controller is going to be able to get you out of a bad situation. There are plenty of excellent controllers out there that will go as far as necessary to get you home safe, especially if you clearly indicate that you are experiencing difficulty and even declare an emergency. But the vast majority, by no fault of their own, are not trained pilots and have no fundamental understanding of aircraft systems. Expecting a controller to function like a CFI and talk you out of a problem is a losing game.
Thanks for this added context and insight. I knew we were borderline throwing ATC under the bus a with that story angle so I tried to find a balance, but the context was not clear enough - your concerns are received and appreciated... and I think this is worth addressing in a follow up. UPDATE: we are working on a follow up that will have direct input from the ATC side. UPDATE2: Thanks to everyone that commented in this thread - I know it got heated - but as a film maker I appreciate the feedback - there is a story to be told about these sorts of scenarios with ATC, but I failed to get it right in terms of context in this case - I didn't realize the RUclips back end video editor had the ability to trim out the middle of a video (I thought it was only capable of cut off the head or tail). I've used the editor to remove the 5 mins in question here, and can revisit in the follow up.
As a flight instructor and a controller who is already working to change ATC training about emergencies, this is right but can be improved. Dan and Steve, I would like to pick your brains about some of this material. BTW, I heartily endorse teaching controllers to remind pilots about "wings level", and also want to promote the concept of a VFR-into-IMC safety speed of about 1.8 the flaps-up stall speed. It's at about the top of the white arc for most airplanes, is about the 45% MCP cruise speed, and is comfortably above the 1.404 minimum safety speed that Dan advocates. Notably, it slows planes down enough from normal cruise speed that it is below VA speed, and provides an extra safety margin against a graveyard spiral situation.
I am a GA pilot, and i fully agree with you. I love Steve and Dan. And I love how you focus on bringing aviation-safety to the ga world. But I think ATC got unintentionally slammed a little bit in this video. Having ATC tell you to remain VFR is not a bad thing, That is what they're trained to do as they're handling other aircraft of the same time. It is up to the pilot to tell atc "unable" if they're in the soup, or in over their heads, Or unable to accept a heading change while initiating a go around. I feel really bad for the gentleman who lost his father in an aviation accident. However, I don't think it's right to say " if you had this such-and-such controller" your father would still be alive. Unless of course the controller made a serious error. But giving a heading on a go-around is common practice. Atc might be trying to steer you away from other aircraft or terrain. ATC has no way of knowing if the pilot is disoriented. It is up to the pilot to aviate first, then navigate and communicate.
vadermike777 in a VFR to IMC accident it is the pilot and only the pilot that put them in that situation. All a controller can do is their best keeping in mind that most controllers are not pilots and are not qualified to talk anyone down. If the worst should happen 100% of the responsibility rests on the pilot that got them selves there. Just as 100% of the responsibility rests on the pilot to decline a clearance or instruction that may not be a good idea.
Excellent! In the fire service, I trained my crew in the things most important: when things go wrong. It was my single most important goal. Sure, we could train on standard operating procedures, the tradition. My goal was to keep my boys alive. I'm elated to see this concept finding its way to general aviation!
I love Dan. “Excuse me folks, we’re in a lotta trouble right now, but I’m going to do a Chandelle and get us out of this!” 😂 In all seriousness tho, this is great work! On all fronts. Great video. Important content. 👍
it‘s certainly right that a chandelle or a steep turn won‘t get you out of trouble. But those are manoeuvres every GA pilot WILL do eventually and then he must be prepared. you won’t do them with a Triple 7 though. I’ve seen „weekend warriors“ dropping the flaps in a 45 degree final turn.. I mean... what the heck?! GA accidents are mostly caused by a lack of training and understanding of basic flight physics and therefore this approach is absolutly appriciated. But there is no reason to exchange the practise, it has to be increased by the problems we encounter. And if that will result in more expensive PPLs, well... how much is your life?
If you flew into a box canyon, that’s your way to turn around. Other than that... Those maneuvers are not required on a BFR. That training can and should be tailored to the pilot
As a 17yr old student pilot who has always wanted to fly, it's very concerning to see these fatal statistics. Thanks for inspiring change so I can continue to enjoy the greatest privileged on earth: flying above it.
We're working hard to try to make an impact that will primarily save lives and then hopefully trickle down to have a positive affect on aviation insurance
Hey, some car insurance companies offer a price break for families with new teenage drivers (below their "normal" rates for families with teen drivers) if the teen goes through Driver Ed in a Box, so maybe...
Wow, I just happened to stumble on this video and I’m impressed. I’m a 737 Captain employed for a major airline for over 32 years. I went to Embry-Riddle University (class of ‘83!) and back then most of us were perusing airline careers as our ultimate goal. Many of us also flew GA outside of school at local FBO’s and thankfully we actually did do a lot of these scenarios in training ourselves toward the airline goal! Hopefully we did pass on some good habits to GA pilots that were only flying for fun. Many times however we did notice the lack of seriousness and professionalism back then of the regular GA “drivers” who’s attitude was “since I’m not going to work for the airlines I don’t care about that stuff”! I remember on my ATP ride my examiner actually gave me the VFR into IMC scenario and other planning for emergency scenarios that weren’t on the check ride study guides. She actually said the same thing you are, that just because it’s not on the test doesn’t mean it’ll never happen and shouldn’t be practiced or learned, it could save your life someday. I guess I was lucky to have that attitude passed on to me in the start of my flying career! I have friends in GA that are always complaining about the cost of insurance and simulator training ( Like Flight Safety, etc) and they do the minimum to meet their BFR requirements just because of the cost. You’re doing good work here! As a side note, the airlines DO train stalls these days but as part of high altitude recoveries (where you are thrust limited, etc) from mountain wave or convective activity, wake turbulence, and upset training which all have GA application as well, especially wake turbulence/upset recovery.
Years ago I very briefly inadvertently flew into IMC, and only by luck made it out alive. This video has changed my thinking about Flight Reviews and declaring an emergency. My review is due later this year, and I will surely incorporate these concepts into it. Thanks to Steve, this info will probably save someone's life. Who knows, it might even be mine...or yours.
This is why I spend 2-3 hrs every month practicing maneuvers, maneuvers, maneuvers. It's cheap insurance and if you are a pilot and you fly with me, expect the unexpected. It may save your life some day. That's how I was taught. Thank you Grant Smith, who after flying for the US Army for 8 years and who has been flying for American Airlines since 1991, for his outstanding training? We practiced Emergency Proceedures with every lesson to the point to where, for me, acting appropriately and quickly in an emergency situation became second nature. Of course, we trained equally as hard on avoidance. I still hear his voice in my head after 30 years of flying. EXCELLENT piece Steve. Keep up the great work.
I am a captain for a major airline and big into GA and I think this is AWESOME!!! When I retire I am going to get my CFII and I will use this technique. THANK YOU!!!
I’m a helicopter pilot and I just wanted to let you know that the content in that video was absolutely perfect. Inadvertent IMC coupled with spatial disorientation is something we brief and debrief about almost every single flight. I’m glad to see your pushing it into the GA realm. As an army aviator we’re required to know specific tasks conditions and standards in the cockpit and our inadvertent task starts with “Announce, attitude, heading, torque (because helicopters), trim, airspeed, and altitude. The reason for announcing is a little bit different depending on who you ask but it can be brought to the GA realm pretty easily, in laymans terms you’re committing to it. The number one killer in aviation is going inadvertent because of people being fearful of committing to it and the repercussions that come with having to deal with that aftermath. It’s better to be able to tell your story than not be able to at all. Love what you’re doing and keep up the great work.
This is AMZING work gentlemen. I am in my 50's and not a pilot just very interested in Aviation and a follower for a very long time. It is just baffling that this type of training is just being pushed , it is also heartbreaking the amount of General Aviation accidents that have occurred even in the last 6 to 8 months including airliner mishaps . I truly believe that many GA pilots are pushing the envelope and not having the skills to get out of the mess . I hope that what ever you are able to conceive is passed on to all .. PS Dan is a phenomenal individual extremely detailed and making sure all pilots in GA pay attention at getting better. There should be a forum of controllers and aviators together in a room discussing partnership and should happen all over the country every year . If I had the funds I would donate for that to happen .
Steve! What a phenomenal video! I'm a helicopter flight instructor for the US Army and can honestly say, I took a lot away from this video and the previous one with Dan. I see a huge opportunity to take advantage of lessons learned from past mistakes and make us all better and safer. Please keep this kind of transparent content coming. I learn and pass along these good techniques/habits to my flying and students.
I sent this video the the chief instructor at my flight school. This is so well prepared and executed. Training should simulate real life and Dan did an incredible job of helping these pilots navigate those real life circumstances. I’m looking forward to see the positive impact this will have for pilots all over the world. You all are going to save lives and change the industry with this GA AQP program.
So great to see someone who doesn't wait for the FAA to lead in the area of safety. Thank you Dan for putting in the thought and effort to create and share these concepts - you are doing more for GA safety than anyone else right now.
Perhaps one of the best videos yet! As a pilot, I soak up this type of information like a sponge because you never know what the future may behold. I have had inadvertent VFR into IMC. I have had limited thrust engine failure. I have had an engine fire with my family aboard. I didn't plan on these things, they just happened. I believe that my ability to talk about these things and not be a statistic is due to absorbing information from worthy instructors and instruction. My flight instructor during my private training years ago actually made me practice engine failure procedures and made me land the aircraft.... not just go around. The difference is mentally overwhelming but gave me a taste of reality that proved beneficial in later years. (The landing was on a grass strip, but nonetheless on one I had never landing on nor had any idea we were going to land on.) @Flightchops I applaud you and all that are involved in this project! I believe as some others have already stated, that t his video has probably saved someone's life. Please, keep up the good work! Oh... and the music..... keep that coming too! :)
I’m an Ifr-rated ppl weekend warrior. When your first video with Dan came out, it was right before my BFR. I took notes and took it to my cfi so we could attempt to use some of the procedures discussed. I’ve watched this video 3 times already and sent it to both cfis that I have worked with proclaiming “this is what training should be.” Amazing job all the way around. Kudos to the 4 volunteers putting themselves out there. And as always, the great production makes it super compelling to watch. I so desperately want to do this training. Let me know when you’re around dfw.
Hey guys! Great video. I literally got chills during it. I’m VP and safety officer of a good sized flying club in NE Indiana. You mentioned bringing this somewhere else and we would LOVE to have you guys. It would be a great lesson for some of my members.
Possibly the best living example I've seen of Public Service, or pro bono, I've seen to date. Witnessing this spirit of substantially strengthening a culture of learning & capability, and intentionally developing extensible training frameworks, is also a wellspring of genuine optimism for those of us who wish to decrease "flying solo" and increase team endeavors, with practitioners of all skill levels aboard. Thank you.
Really great safety course you reviewed with us. Head-in-the-cockpit distractions, when mixed with degrading weather, don't blend together. Based on a recent event: 1. "Radar service is terminated. Remain that squawk" 2. "... and we have 0235" 3. "You're following a 1200 code" If you make a mistake by habitually resetting transponder to 1200 (1), then communicate that mistake clearly to ATC vs inferring it (2). Additional time can be given to focus on resolving the issue, so as to avoid (3), which is compounded by additional factors of weather.
Actually I have used a "Chandelle" during an actual inflight emergency. We were climbing out through 800' in a high performance twin turbine aircraft when our right engine had a 3rd stage turbine failure. We had already passed through 180 kts as we were headed only about 30 miles down the road. We were still with the tower and the winds were light. We requested a turn back to land opposite direction on the departure runway. This was approved by the tower. During the turn I executed a "Chandelle", climbing, and slowing to 140 kts. This accomplished a number of objectives. It decreased the radius of the turn, which also served to decease the distance back to the airport, allowed us to configure the aircraft for landing and converted excessive airspeed into altitude. We landed uneventfully. Thinking through possible emergency scenarios is always a good idea. One never stops learning, our skills need constant refreshment and fine tuning.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 Fighter Pilots have a somewhat similar procedure. If they are unable to turn with their opponent, they will do what is called a "Yo Yo". They will go vertical while simultaneously rolling the aircraft. This decreases the radius of their turn when their velocity is initially somewhat dissipated, but their energy state is recaptured when they dive back on their adversary.
@@shenandoahhills7263 - Yeah.. I did aerobatics too. Another trick to turn tighter is popping out some flaps after banking, they drop the speed, push the airplane into the turn and also drop the stall speed. I practiced 4 kinds of turbacks to opposite. Had to do 2 for real already. No accidents due I landed on the runway. Old Cherokees I flew cargo in South America countryside for 4 years..
@@philipmcniel4908 - That is one of the trickiest trainers i taught on. Underpowered. Wanted to spin a lot. While harder to get it out. The T tail is a differen world on itself.
Thanks to all who made this happen. If y’all happen to make it into the Greensboro NC area, I’ll be glad to play along! Thanks again for making this discussion happen!
I literally paused the video immediately and downloaded the AQP PDF from your link. I know that this kind of preparedness is one of the things I'm sorely lacking. Thanks for some very important assistance. This one was wonderful.
@@KapiChris Here: flightchops.com/grassroots/. Click on it and it will take you to the Flight Chops Grassroots AQP page. Scroll down until you see the golden boldface link DOWNLOAD FREE PDF HERE. Click that, and it will display the PDF, which you can download and save by clicking the download symbol at the top right.
You know I see so many videos about flying safely and how to avoid dangerous situations but very few on what to do when something just happens, how dangerous it can be, and the importance of good atc’s and communication between. I think this is a great program you guys are putting together and I’m glad it’s getting good reception in the aviation community. Good job guys keep it up!
We are on the same page; love to see this. Glad for airport co operation, never seen this before. Or feds being helpful. Ive been out of it for awhile... Thats my kind of BFR!!
I'm a benched pilot, haven't flown in 12 years. Watching this video I am imagining a similar emergency with my family on-board, and even from this side of the keyboard, I can feel the adrenaline and anxiety build at such a prospect. If I ever go back, Dan and his approach to training and proficiency will be my guide.
Question for Dan: When I was doing my PPL checkride for the simulated engine out procedure I was taught by a Riddle graduate to circle the field over the middle. Just like I saw the younger guy in this video do. My DPE was losing his mind. After the checkride during the debrief he asked me. How many times do you every fly in a circle before you land? ME: Ughhhhhhh never.... I was still able to land it safely, however his point still sticks with me to this day. When you are circling over a runway, you are losing visual every 180 degrees. My DPE suggested if I'm already near the airfield just fly a traffic pattern. Either start at the base or if you have a ton of altitude to kill just start on downwind and fly the pattern normally. When he asked me how many times I've flown the pattern I said about 400 times. I really appreciated his insights. Even though I'm almost finished with IFR I asked my CFII to kill the power on random flights without giving me any notice so I could practice flying the pattern like the DPE suggested. I'm 4 for 4 and it's given me a ton of confidence.
I just did my first engine out glide to land yesterday with my instructor. I'm a student pilot with 32 hours. We were about 4 miles from the field and 4k feet. Engine out and I had too much altitude, so we circled just outside the downwind and joined the downwind a little over pattern altitude. Crossed the numbers at pattern altitude and on speed, and while aiming for the 1k markers I still had too much altitude. One forward slip later and we touched down 100 feet past the thousand foot markers. Like you said, amazing to realize how much time you really have. Huge confidence booster. To me, circling the downwind felt logical and fairly natural, as I've normally overflown to join the downwind at other times. I think the correct answer is "whatever gets you to the runway", but I'm a newb.
I am a non-pilot who has flown in small planes a few times. I’ve always wondered how people could blithely get themselves into trouble, as people I flew with seemed to be pretty well on top of things. Through your videos, I have realized it’s a false sense of security. I was never really briefed on anything other than “be quiet when I’m doing radio calls”. You guys are doing something really valuable to everyone by getting pilots to consider their flying procedures in a very different light. Can’t wait for the next one.
Decades ago a friend of mine was student pilot and he told me that he was going to take his cross country solo flight. I asked if I could go with him, just to tag along and he said yes. I was a commercial pilot at the time. I did not check his ground planning or the methods he used while on the ground for the flight, I was to go along for the ride. We took off and after 15 minutes we were approaching a town I asked him which town that was, he was wrong, he thought he had covered over twice as much ground as he actually had. It was a simple early student pilot error that should have been completely covered in his ground school training, no excuses. I asked him what side of the town was the airport located and he answered correctly. I then told him to look at his chart and follow along our direction of flight until he could identify which town had the airport in that location. He answered correctly. I asked him why he was not using his radios to help him navigate and he replied that he had never been taught how. I then made it my job to teach him in areas where he was lacking during the duration of the three hour flight. His lack of training was staggering. There is no excuse for lack of basic instruction. It was a good thing that I went with him or he may never have completed the flight. More than likely, after he had not been able to fly the three legs I suspect his instructor would have told him that he needed more training and would have gotten more duel time out of him. Keep up the great work, and thank you for this video.
I'm in the process of knocking the dust off of my pilot's license after a decade or more of letting flying pass me by. I watched the vids with you and Dan when they came out and was impressed then. As I return focus to flying, I'm more impressed now. Besides watching these vids, I totally recommend getting a flight sim set up at home. I may never get my instrument rating but I can still train to keep me from flying to the scene of my accident. I'm guessing that most VFR only pilots never practice whatever instrument training they learned in flight school. At the moment, I'm not in a position to get back behind the yoke, so until I can, I've dug up my old xplane 9 computer and have been practicing shooting approaches in IMC. I do not recommend using a home sim for basic flight training but it works like a charm for practicing instrument procedures. I set up my home airport with IMC from 400' AGL to 10,000'. No wind. What I do is take off and fly back along the ILS in cloud for about 20 miles, do a 180 and shoot the approach. It is exhausting but it's a good feeling to see those runway lights enough in front of the plane that I can stick a landing, when I bust out of the muck.
Steve, this is the most emotional video I feel like I have watched on your channel. I have never had to experience an emergency in flight, but recieving this training has always been on my mind as a student pilot. I hope more flight schools can work on this training and these scenarios because it will help General Aviation for years to come. Great video and keep up the good work. Congratulations on getting your IFR cert too!
Steve this is without a doubt one of the most important things you will ever be a part of. Bring it to the UK and I’ll do whatever I can to help. Excellent work!
Content like this is vitally important for the aviation community as a whole. As a pilot, thank you for this safety rich content that you’ve been posting lately. You might’ve just saved someone’s life exposing them to the unforgiving world of aviation we fly in!
This is THE MOST important and revolutionary movement in GA since a couple bicycle mechanics decided gravity wasn’t for them over 115 years ago. Please like and share this video. This HAS to get out so we can change our industry, save lives and become better pilots. Can’t commend Dan Gryder enough on spearheading this and of course FlightChops for an amazing channel and making a real, positive difference in GA.
It's amazing to see that a concept that I wrote about 12 years ago is finally seeping into the GA cockpits. I think that if Airline standards are implemented into flight training form the beginning we can enhance GA operations and criteria. No one is too young to learn nor is there an amount of hours limit to safety. GA training should move towards a higher standard of training and pilot during their PPL training should be introduced to higher levels of thinking, decision making and emergency expectancy. I am an FAA ATPL with a TR on the B 737. Good job Dan I like what you are doing.
Love this! I was apart of a partnership planning to purchase a Cessna 340 and we couldn't do it because we couldn't find insurance that would insure anyone in the airplane without a billion hours in type. More importantly, this wills save lives. General Aviation needs to be something that is not only seen as safe but is safe!
Thanks Chops, This is probably the best, most needed video about GA flying I have ever seen. I hope Dan's techniques and methods become standard practice in GA. I hope that the FAA adopts these lessons and mandates they be taught as part of the PPL lesson plan.
I had a flight instructor similar to Dan and he protected me during training and long after with retention of the knowledge. Jim has passed and I no longer fly. Still I am here learning in his memory.
Excellent video Steve! The airline mentality has proven to be effective and this is perfect. I don't know how there can already be 32 dislikes on this, best video yet.
Haha - thanks for the nudge - sorry about that. Lemme get to that over the weekend - maying a physical sticky note to remind myself. What should I call the play list?
This is a great concept! I hope it can spread to all GA communities and save lives. Tomorrow morning, I will have my 6-month recurrent training and experience dual generator failure, loss of DC essential bus, loss of both hydraulic pumps and the usual fires and engine failures before and after V1. I always look forwards to this shape up.
What a great video. I started my IFR training 3 months ago and no as VFR pilot could not believe how unprepared I was to fly the aircraft using the instruments.
My Dad is a retired Commercial Pilot that still does recreational flying out of Fort Lauderdale FL. I guarantee you he'd be stoked if he had that opportunity be one of those 4 pilots and test his knowledge. He is a great pilot, it be good to put him to the test to see how he performs.
Great video Steve! Smyrna was my training airport. In fact, the controller y'all were talking too was there for my first solo. I'm going to show this video to my CFI and get him to take me through the checklist for my upcoming biennial. This stuff is truly life saving!!
This is nothing short of amazing. As I’m currently going through flight training, I’m going to schedule time with my CFI to watch this video as well as the prequel to make sure we discuss and train this. Once my training is over, I’ll be the one responsible and I want to make sure that I’m confident in my abilities. As students, I think we can be too timid to ask questions or ask to be trained like this.
Steve and Dan, You guys are on fire! You are making a difference by giving pilots the tools to own the situation and complete the life saving tasks before completing the flying etiquette tasks.
I’m so glad you guys are doing this, I was planning to do acrobatic and IFR training after receiving my PPL to gain more experience flying. Your course will help as well. It’s like doing donuts on a snowy day in the parking lot so that when you lose control of your car unexpectedly you have an idea how to recover.
I hope you guys know how monumental this video, process and movement is. I teach electrical safety and skills (36 yr electrician) and as I watch Flight Chops and Dan's videos for prevention of accidents and investigation videos as well as other disciplines accident investigations an amazing (to me at least) theory has emerged. 3 golden threads always seem to be woven into aviation and industrial as well as so many other videos (very prominent in yours Dan) of 1) Inattention 2) Negligence and 3) Complacency. It shows in virtually all disciplines as distraction, assumptions, failure to train/retrain, failure to get the PROPER training, inattention to process and transfer of responsibility, failure to ask and indifference to assume the obvious instead of challenging and on and on. I believe we are seeing the birth of something here that will make a tremendous difference in GA but for those of us like me that love planes, flying, safety in any discipline I think as I said this is monumental. Keep up the push, people are dying nearly every day somewhere from GA crashes so the urgency and passion you guys have is well justified! Great Work!!
These videos w Dan are fantastic! Not yet a PPL student but from being a Flight Paramedic this info is SO topical and important! Thank you for highlighting.
Great video! I love what you are working on here. I hope you keep building this out and encouraging other CFIs to do this for GA flight reviews. I will share this! Keep doing more of this!
This is very good! Thank you for this! I had an instructor that had me do what they called rudder stalls. Get up about 9,000 or so AGL cut the power and hold altitude as long as you can. Keep the yoke full back once you get it there and use the rubber to keep it level! The plane will drop noise high level wings at around 500 feet a minute. Then before you get to low put the power back full and recover from the stall. This can teach how not to spin when you stall. Control the stall and recover. What we want to do first when one wing starts to drop is the worst thing to do. Only the rudder can control keeping the wings level. Moving the yoke side to side only makes the wing dip more because it makes the low wing stall more. But that is what we want to do.
What an inspiring video. Well done to you and Dan for sharing!! Big time. I was discussing with my instructor how rare it is for qualified pilots to get further training in after they gain their licence...with his 10,000 hours of experience he said it seldom happens. There should be a course similar to this every pilot does every xx amount of hours or months. Bravo.
You are amazing…..just recently discovered your channel. Now I’m a Hugh fan. Thank you for you dedication to safe flying. Also your NTSB challenge is spot on.
A great line from Juan Brown at the Blancolirio RUclips channel: "It's better to demonstrate your good judgement than it is your good piloting skills............" Good stuff, Steve. Looking forward to seeing more from this series and I'll recommend it at our next CAP meeting.....................
Or, to put it another way, "An exceptional pilot is one who uses his exceptional judgement to avoid situations which might require the use of his exceptional skills." Sounds like a Budd Davisson quote to me.
Steve and Dan, thank you... this truly is enlightening and I look forward to better understanding and learning from it. Greatly appreciate access to the documentation. The ATC help shown ties in closely with learning from RH & AG of The Opposing Bases podcast that controllers really are there and all to willing to help.
I would like to see the "decalre an emergency" scenario run with "just passed their test" pilots. Find out how they mess up and what everyone else can do to mitigate.
I was a student pilot in 95 flying 152's. I've always been an aviation enthusiast. My life took me on a different career path. I think that todays tech should require longer training to get a license. Not only the tech in the cockpit has changed but the tech of ATC as well. With more aircraft than ever flying the skies it's important to have an intimate knowledge of tech in the aviation field. It's no longer the 152's of my past with standard cockpits. I don't even know WTH I would do with an I-pad Kneeboard or one fixed to the yoke. I can operate I-pads or tablets but what about high stress situations when seconds count? Keep on flying Great ppl and be safe.
Inadvertent IMC entry! exactly why the Kobe Bryant accident is so important to changes to FAR Part 135 Helicopter Operations. NTSB Most Wanted...Good stuff, thanks for posting Subscribed Juan.
I no longer fly but when I did I was very lucky to have an experienced guy who never stopped making sure I was ALWAYS "flying safe" whenever we took to the air together. Over the years his "pearls of wisdom" that he shared with me always kept me safe, be it in just normal everyday flying or some dangerous and tricky situation. This has been an excellent video, it shows and proved that training and refreshing knowledge should never stop.
See after I took my commercial checkride I asked the DPE, I said “Look, I get these stupid maneuvers are about energy management and such, but when the hell am I ever going to do these in a part 135 or 121 operation?” He agreed with me. The checkrides need to change and the FAA needs to bring everything into the 20th century with how easy information is available to pilots nowadays
Hopefully, nobody's ghost ever says "if only our training didn't let us down" this should all be part of attaining a pilot's licence. Another great video you guys... thank you for making it.
Dan is truly going to save lives with this type of training. Thank you Steve for sharing! The FAA should take notes and tailor the certification standards to include some of this.
Very good Steve and Dan.. I had smoke in the cockpit (Cherokee pA28) I was overhead a busy airport with fire and rescue...but I pressed on 15 miles to an uncontrolled airport I knew...all ended ok..smoking radio...but my fear of declaring an emergency got the better of me that day. ...typical GA pilot decision.
Unrelated... Did we have an email chain going about a possible visit to the UK? If so, I am trying to find it... can you bump it if you can find it? Thanks, flightchops at gmail dot com
As an ATP/CFII that fully supports training senarios like in the video, I say great job, we need more of this!!! Thank you for your outside the box thinking and real world approach to training.
I'd recognize that tower voice anywhere. The guys at Smyrna are awesome! Did my training in Murfreesboro with MTSU, and would fly into Smyrna all the time.
As a CFI, I definitely agree that we could be doing a lot more to help lower the accident rate in GA. We need to be going above and beyond the ACS to help our students focus on what really causes accidents and what they can practice to keep themselves safe even after passing the checkride. This video was hugely informational and I've already downloaded the AQP Document to see what I can incorporate into my Instruction. I really appreciate what you and Dan are doing. If you guys need any help, I'd love to get involved!
In the uk, we’re trained for rejected takeoff, engine failure after takeoff, pre taxi checks and vfr into imc and how to get out of imc and return to vfr
Steve, These videos of yours (and Jason Miller) are outstanding. So much useful information on them. Dan is very thought provoking. thanks for your hard work Keep them coming!
What an amazing video, Steve and Dan! Thanks so much for inspiring me and many others to think seriously about how prepared we are for circumstances outside of the ordinary in the cockpit. As a newly rated, 35-hour private pilot, headed for a career in the airlines, this has been one area that I have felt the most unprepared for, and have spent many hours "chair flying" emergency scenarios. This video, however, inspired me to take a longer, more serious look at that preparation, and I must say, I need some work. So here's to more simulator time involving emergencies, and consistent practice with all types of simulated emergencies. Thanks again, your channel continues to inspire and impress me, and this (IMO) might be your best video yet.
I love this series! As a military rotary wing aviator I assumed that these types of maneuvers and briefings were more common place, as I achieved my fixed wing ratings it became painfully obvious that these things were not common place! I love what you’re doing and congrats on your instrument rating!
As a flight instructor and air traffic controller who is already involved in trying to improve ATC training about inflight emergencies, I thought that this video was excellent. Pilots, please do not forget that you are the PIC and if you need help please do not hesitate to declare an emergency. This is especially true when you get into those murky VFR-in-MVFR situations where things are starting to become unsafe. Also, whenever needed, do not hesitate to say "unable" to a controller if we start throwing too much at you too fast. "Unable" and "mayday/emergency" are two words (three?) that every pilot should be willing to say when needed.
YES SIR! Thanks you! Credible voice from the other side!
Hey there, Dean. I believe you and I had this exact discussion at SnF last year (or maybe the year before). Anything that we can do to get pilots using ATC services, and getting controllers to put themselves into the heads of the pilots, can only have great results. Like you, I really enjoyed this video.
@@GoldSealFlight Numerous calls / PM's in the last 48 hours from managers at US ARTCC facilities that thanked us for doing this drill and including this ATC aspect / they are using this video as content for in house future staff meetings! The positive constructive conversations that it has started has been profound! I think an invitation is underway for Chops to speak to an ATC managers group! Cool!
Comforting words. Thank You!
I would add "Standby" to the two/three words every pilot should be willing to say to ATC. We become conditioned to respond promptly to every ATC call however this should never eat into our mental reserves to the point of saturation.
I'd like to give a shout out to Wellington Approach in NZ. I was flying across some water uncontrolled and realized the cloud in front of me was getting uncomfortably low. I started to do a 180 away from it and they immediately got hold of me, asked me if everything was OK, and when I explained the situation offered to clear me into controlled airspace with a heading to my destination. Just hearing that voice come through my headset made a whole lot of pressure go away for this low time pilot.
Just to be clear here as well - I wasn't ever in any danger of going into IMC, but I was just so impressed that a controller noticed me do something "odd" on his screen and took the initiative to get hold of me and check that I was OK.
@@derkiwi151
That's some gold standard ATC. They don't get the public recognition they deserve.
Steeltrap I agree. I always try to remember that it’s a person on the other end of the radio, and since that incident I’ve never been afraid to ask them for assistance. That one controller made my flying a lot safer.
I had an ATC tower controller “tower Joe “ in my ears when piloting a crash event.
After the ordeal I vist the tower, Joe looked at me checking my ‘status’ .. we both where emotional, eyes got a bit wet.
F that coffee was strong 💪.
I was so happy he was talking to me on the way down.
Note : after the crash I called 911 and got hold of the tower to tell them I was alive. Joe’s boss almost demanded to collect a tower coffee
Cloud 256, traffic 12 o'clock climb to FL90.
As a pilot and a controller I understand where Dan is going with this training, however, controllers are NOT trained to "talk you down" like what is seen in the movies, and we are definitely not trained to give instructions on how to fly the aircraft. ATC are NOT flight instructors and are in no way trained to fly any sort of aircraft as part of controller training. We are not familiar with various systems on an aircraft or how to maintain any amount of control. Any information you do receive from a controller (like the "wings-level" instruction) is most likely coming from a controller with flight experience and is taking it upon themselves to give that information. In the vast majority of cases, controllers have no idea how to fly an airplane, what your workload in the cockpit may consist of, or how to get you out of whatever situation you got into. We as controllers MUST abide by rules governing ATC in the FAA JO 7110.65 (which is why you get the "maintain VFR" instruction so much. If you're not able to maintain VFR, you are expected to declare an emergency rather than expect the controller to start giving additional information on their own accord. After declaring an emergency, yes you absolutely will receive the best handling available while other aircraft standby) Controllers (RADAR specifically) are not necessarily aware of weather limitations obscuring visibility or how bad things actually are in your area. Tower controllers may be able to help more due to the nature of being at the top of a window-wrapped building.
What a controller CAN do for you is to give you the Minimum Vectoring Altitude (MVA) in your area which guarantees terrain and obstruction clearance. Controllers CAN give you vectors to an area with a lower MVA to help get below a layer of weather. Controllers CAN make phone calls to emergency services. SOME controllers are familiar enough with their area that they may provide additional information (such as "fly directly towards the smokestacks") but that is not guaranteed at all. Even information available on the VFR sectional is not something that a controller is necessarily familiar with.
I fully support the change in attitude towards how pilots are training and would love to see this training implemented elsewhere, but please do not think for a minute that a controller is going to be able to get you out of a bad situation. There are plenty of excellent controllers out there that will go as far as necessary to get you home safe, especially if you clearly indicate that you are experiencing difficulty and even declare an emergency. But the vast majority, by no fault of their own, are not trained pilots and have no fundamental understanding of aircraft systems. Expecting a controller to function like a CFI and talk you out of a problem is a losing game.
Thanks for this added context and insight. I knew we were borderline throwing ATC under the bus a with that story angle so I tried to find a balance, but the context was not clear enough - your concerns are received and appreciated... and I think this is worth addressing in a follow up.
UPDATE: we are working on a follow up that will have direct input from the ATC side.
UPDATE2: Thanks to everyone that commented in this thread - I know it got heated - but as a film maker I appreciate the feedback - there is a story to be told about these sorts of scenarios with ATC, but I failed to get it right in terms of context in this case - I didn't realize the RUclips back end video editor had the ability to trim out the middle of a video (I thought it was only capable of cut off the head or tail). I've used the editor to remove the 5 mins in question here, and can revisit in the follow up.
As a flight instructor and a controller who is already working to change ATC training about emergencies, this is right but can be improved. Dan and Steve, I would like to pick your brains about some of this material. BTW, I heartily endorse teaching controllers to remind pilots about "wings level", and also want to promote the concept of a VFR-into-IMC safety speed of about 1.8 the flaps-up stall speed. It's at about the top of the white arc for most airplanes, is about the 45% MCP cruise speed, and is comfortably above the 1.404 minimum safety speed that Dan advocates. Notably, it slows planes down enough from normal cruise speed that it is below VA speed, and provides an extra safety margin against a graveyard spiral situation.
I am a GA pilot, and i fully agree with you. I love Steve and Dan. And I love how you focus on bringing aviation-safety to the ga world. But I think ATC got unintentionally slammed a little bit in this video. Having ATC tell you to remain VFR is not a bad thing, That is what they're trained to do as they're handling other aircraft of the same time. It is up to the pilot to tell atc "unable" if they're in the soup, or in over their heads, Or unable to accept a heading change while initiating a go around. I feel really bad for the gentleman who lost his father in an aviation accident. However, I don't think it's right to say " if you had this such-and-such controller" your father would still be alive. Unless of course the controller made a serious error. But giving a heading on a go-around is common practice. Atc might be trying to steer you away from other aircraft or terrain. ATC has no way of knowing if the pilot is disoriented. It is up to the pilot to aviate first, then navigate and communicate.
Dean Brown Hey Dean! Ryan here, we met at KOSH. I’m still fighting the good fight on controller emergency training here at my facility.
vadermike777 in a VFR to IMC accident it is the pilot and only the pilot that put them in that situation. All a controller can do is their best keeping in mind that most controllers are not pilots and are not qualified to talk anyone down. If the worst should happen 100% of the responsibility rests on the pilot that got them selves there. Just as 100% of the responsibility rests on the pilot to decline a clearance or instruction that may not be a good idea.
Steve and Dan, HANDS DOWN, the best video I’ve ever seen. This is SO important!
Well coming from a strong CFI like you and a You Tube guy that means a lot! Thanks!
That's the last time I text Chops a butt pic as a joke, hahaha. Good stuff, Dan & Chops!
Thanks for being a part of this one buddy!
Hang on... you mean that was NOT the first and only one!? 🤣
Excellent! In the fire service, I trained my crew in the things most important: when things go wrong. It was my single most important goal.
Sure, we could train on standard operating procedures, the tradition. My goal was to keep my boys alive.
I'm elated to see this concept finding its way to general aviation!
Laughed out loud when I saw it... the fingernail nibble was a nice touch, too!
that would make for a good calendar
my thought: Don’t scratch the windshield!
I love Dan.
“Excuse me folks, we’re in a lotta trouble right now, but I’m going to do a Chandelle and get us out of this!” 😂
In all seriousness tho, this is great work! On all fronts. Great video. Important content. 👍
Just the other day I was lamenting that airlines don't do Lazy-8s for holds and traffic spacing.
The Finer Points
Reading your comment, I reflect back to my training, there must be a lot of old school chandeliers hanging out there.
💯💯
it‘s certainly right that a chandelle or a steep turn won‘t get you out of trouble. But those are manoeuvres every GA pilot WILL do eventually and then he must be prepared. you won’t do them with a Triple 7 though. I’ve seen „weekend warriors“ dropping the flaps in a 45 degree final turn.. I mean... what the heck?! GA accidents are mostly caused by a lack of training and understanding of basic flight physics and therefore this approach is absolutly appriciated. But there is no reason to exchange the practise, it has to be increased by the problems we encounter. And if that will result in more expensive PPLs, well... how much is your life?
If you flew into a box canyon, that’s your way to turn around. Other than that...
Those maneuvers are not required on a BFR. That training can and should be tailored to the pilot
As a 17yr old student pilot who has always wanted to fly, it's very concerning to see these fatal statistics. Thanks for inspiring change so I can continue to enjoy the greatest privileged on earth: flying above it.
Best comment in this entire discussion! Nothing but the best of wishes for you Parker!
Review an AOPA, Air Safety Institute videos daily, error analysis from Kit Fox to Lear Jets, student to 5,000 hours, tragic and miraculous stories
Steve and Dan. You are saving lives with these videos. Thank you both for your hard work and dedication.
Will this become a certified or elected course? And once you go through such a course would you be able to get a break on current insurance rates?
We're working hard to try to make an impact that will primarily save lives and then hopefully trickle down to have a positive affect on aviation insurance
Amazing question and great response thanks John and thanks for the answer flightchops.
it’s not wings credit, it seems to go above and beyond
Hey, some car insurance companies offer a price break for families with new teenage drivers (below their "normal" rates for families with teen drivers) if the teen goes through Driver Ed in a Box, so maybe...
Wow, I just happened to stumble on this video and I’m impressed. I’m a 737 Captain employed for a major airline for over 32 years. I went to Embry-Riddle University (class of ‘83!) and back then most of us were perusing airline careers as our ultimate goal. Many of us also flew GA outside of school at local FBO’s and thankfully we actually did do a lot of these scenarios in training ourselves toward the airline goal! Hopefully we did pass on some good habits to GA pilots that were only flying for fun. Many times however we did notice the lack of seriousness and professionalism back then of the regular GA “drivers” who’s attitude was “since I’m not going to work for the airlines I don’t care about that stuff”! I remember on my ATP ride my examiner actually gave me the VFR into IMC scenario and other planning for emergency scenarios that weren’t on the check ride study guides. She actually said the same thing you are, that just because it’s not on the test doesn’t mean it’ll never happen and shouldn’t be practiced or learned, it could save your life someday. I guess I was lucky to have that attitude passed on to me in the start of my flying career! I have friends in GA that are always complaining about the cost of insurance and simulator training ( Like Flight Safety, etc) and they do the minimum to meet their BFR requirements just because of the cost. You’re doing good work here! As a side note, the airlines DO train stalls these days but as part of high altitude recoveries (where you are thrust limited, etc) from mountain wave or convective activity, wake turbulence, and upset training which all have GA application as well, especially wake turbulence/upset recovery.
Years ago I very briefly inadvertently flew into IMC, and only by luck made it out alive. This video has changed my thinking about Flight Reviews and declaring an emergency. My review is due later this year, and I will surely incorporate these concepts into it.
Thanks to Steve, this info will probably save someone's life. Who knows, it might even be mine...or yours.
This is why I spend 2-3 hrs every month practicing maneuvers, maneuvers, maneuvers. It's cheap insurance and if you are a pilot and you fly with me, expect the unexpected. It may save your life some day. That's how I was taught. Thank you Grant Smith, who after flying for the US Army for 8 years and who has been flying for American Airlines since 1991, for his outstanding training? We practiced Emergency Proceedures with every lesson to the point to where, for me, acting appropriately and quickly in an emergency situation became second nature. Of course, we trained equally as hard on avoidance. I still hear his voice in my head after 30 years of flying. EXCELLENT piece Steve. Keep up the great work.
I am a captain for a major airline and big into GA and I think this is AWESOME!!! When I retire I am going to get my CFII and I will use this technique. THANK YOU!!!
I’m a helicopter pilot and I just wanted to let you know that the content in that video was absolutely perfect. Inadvertent IMC coupled with spatial disorientation is something we brief and debrief about almost every single flight. I’m glad to see your pushing it into the GA realm. As an army aviator we’re required to know specific tasks conditions and standards in the cockpit and our inadvertent task starts with “Announce, attitude, heading, torque (because helicopters), trim, airspeed, and altitude. The reason for announcing is a little bit different depending on who you ask but it can be brought to the GA realm pretty easily, in laymans terms you’re committing to it. The number one killer in aviation is going inadvertent because of people being fearful of committing to it and the repercussions that come with having to deal with that aftermath. It’s better to be able to tell your story than not be able to at all. Love what you’re doing and keep up the great work.
This is AMZING work gentlemen. I am in my 50's and not a pilot just very interested in Aviation and a follower for a very long time. It is just baffling that this type of training is just being pushed , it is also heartbreaking the amount of General Aviation accidents that have occurred even in the last 6 to 8 months including airliner mishaps . I truly believe that many GA pilots are pushing the envelope and not having the skills to get out of the mess . I hope that what ever you are able to conceive is passed on to all .. PS Dan is a phenomenal individual extremely detailed and making sure all pilots in GA pay attention at getting better. There should be a forum of controllers and aviators together in a room discussing partnership and should happen all over the country every year . If I had the funds I would donate for that to happen .
It was a pleasure working with you to do this video at MQY. Excellent video!
Steve! What a phenomenal video! I'm a helicopter flight instructor for the US Army and can honestly say, I took a lot away from this video and the previous one with Dan. I see a huge opportunity to take advantage of lessons learned from past mistakes and make us all better and safer. Please keep this kind of transparent content coming. I learn and pass along these good techniques/habits to my flying and students.
I sent this video the the chief instructor at my flight school. This is so well prepared and executed. Training should simulate real life and Dan did an incredible job of helping these pilots navigate those real life circumstances. I’m looking forward to see the positive impact this will have for pilots all over the world. You all are going to save lives and change the industry with this GA AQP program.
Please let us know what the chief instructor thinks
A weekend warrior, private, "instrument rated," pilot changing the world of GA one new friend at a time.
lol
Haha - I appreciate that :)
Most USA GA accidents last 10 years are not during IFR, but VFR maneuvers pilot errors.
Those Canadians.. Always trying to improve safety... Many thanks..
Why are new computers better than old computers? More connections. Same here. FlightChops is doing it right.
By far one of the best videos you’ve done yet, Steve. Dan makes me re-think how I administer a flight review. Keep it up!
So great to see someone who doesn't wait for the FAA to lead in the area of safety. Thank you Dan for putting in the thought and effort to create and share these concepts - you are doing more for GA safety than anyone else right now.
Perhaps one of the best videos yet! As a pilot, I soak up this type of information like a sponge because you never know what the future may behold. I have had inadvertent VFR into IMC. I have had limited thrust engine failure. I have had an engine fire with my family aboard. I didn't plan on these things, they just happened. I believe that my ability to talk about these things and not be a statistic is due to absorbing information from worthy instructors and instruction. My flight instructor during my private training years ago actually made me practice engine failure procedures and made me land the aircraft.... not just go around. The difference is mentally overwhelming but gave me a taste of reality that proved beneficial in later years. (The landing was on a grass strip, but nonetheless on one I had never landing on nor had any idea we were going to land on.) @Flightchops I applaud you and all that are involved in this project! I believe as some others have already stated, that t his video has probably saved someone's life. Please, keep up the good work!
Oh... and the music..... keep that coming too! :)
I’m an Ifr-rated ppl weekend warrior. When your first video with Dan came out, it was right before my BFR. I took notes and took it to my cfi so we could attempt to use some of the procedures discussed. I’ve watched this video 3 times already and sent it to both cfis that I have worked with proclaiming “this is what training should be.” Amazing job all the way around. Kudos to the 4 volunteers putting themselves out there. And as always, the great production makes it super compelling to watch. I so desperately want to do this training. Let me know when you’re around dfw.
I don’t comment often but this is one of the best flight chops - this is the stuff GA pilots need to hear over and over
Hey guys! Great video. I literally got chills during it. I’m VP and safety officer of a good sized flying club in NE Indiana. You mentioned bringing this somewhere else and we would LOVE to have you guys. It would be a great lesson for some of my members.
Possibly the best living example I've seen of Public Service, or pro bono, I've seen to date. Witnessing this spirit of substantially strengthening a culture of learning & capability, and intentionally developing extensible training frameworks, is also a wellspring of genuine optimism for those of us who wish to decrease "flying solo" and increase team endeavors, with practitioners of all skill levels aboard. Thank you.
Really great safety course you reviewed with us.
Head-in-the-cockpit distractions, when mixed with degrading weather, don't blend together.
Based on a recent event:
1. "Radar service is terminated. Remain that squawk"
2. "... and we have 0235"
3. "You're following a 1200 code"
If you make a mistake by habitually resetting transponder to 1200 (1), then communicate that mistake clearly to ATC vs inferring it (2). Additional time can be given to focus on resolving the issue, so as to avoid (3), which is compounded by additional factors of weather.
Actually I have used a "Chandelle" during an actual inflight emergency. We were climbing out through 800' in a high performance twin turbine aircraft when our right engine had a 3rd stage turbine failure. We had already passed through 180 kts as we were headed only about 30 miles down the road. We were still with the tower and the winds were light. We requested a turn back to land opposite direction on the departure runway. This was approved by the tower. During the turn I executed a "Chandelle", climbing, and slowing to 140 kts. This accomplished a number of objectives. It decreased the radius of the turn, which also served to decease the distance back to the airport, allowed us to configure the aircraft for landing and converted excessive airspeed into altitude. We landed uneventfully.
Thinking through possible emergency scenarios is always a good idea. One never stops learning, our skills need constant refreshment and fine tuning.
So you did a Question Mark Turn or an IFR style Teardrop Turnback? You had a lot of speed to dissipate so you pulled up while turning. Good it worked.
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 Fighter Pilots have a somewhat similar procedure. If they are unable to turn with their opponent, they will do what is called a "Yo Yo". They will go vertical while simultaneously rolling the aircraft. This decreases the radius of their turn when their velocity is initially somewhat dissipated, but their energy state is recaptured when they dive back on their adversary.
@@shenandoahhills7263 - Yeah.. I did aerobatics too. Another trick to turn tighter is popping out some flaps after banking, they drop the speed, push the airplane into the turn and also drop the stall speed.
I practiced 4 kinds of turbacks to opposite. Had to do 2 for real already. No accidents due I landed on the runway. Old Cherokees I flew cargo in South America countryside for 4 years..
@@CFITOMAHAWK2 I initially misread your username because it starts with the letters CFIT...
@@philipmcniel4908 - That is one of the trickiest trainers i taught on. Underpowered. Wanted to spin a lot. While harder to get it out. The T tail is a differen world on itself.
Yet another great service to the GA community. You guys have set such an example. Thank you so much for doing this, it's such a great partnership.
Thanks to all who made this happen. If y’all happen to make it into the Greensboro NC area, I’ll be glad to play along!
Thanks again for making this discussion happen!
I literally paused the video immediately and downloaded the AQP PDF from your link. I know that this kind of preparedness is one of the things I'm sorely lacking. Thanks for some very important assistance. This one was wonderful.
goatflieg i cannot find this link
@@KapiChris Here: flightchops.com/grassroots/. Click on it and it will take you to the Flight Chops Grassroots AQP page. Scroll down until you see the golden boldface link DOWNLOAD FREE PDF HERE. Click that, and it will display the PDF, which you can download and save by clicking the download symbol at the top right.
You know I see so many videos about flying safely and how to avoid dangerous situations but very few on what to do when something just happens, how dangerous it can be, and the importance of good atc’s and communication between. I think this is a great program you guys are putting together and I’m glad it’s getting good reception in the aviation community. Good job guys keep it up!
We are on the same page; love to see this. Glad for airport co operation, never seen this before. Or feds being helpful. Ive been out of it for awhile... Thats my kind of BFR!!
I'm a benched pilot, haven't flown in 12 years. Watching this video I am imagining a similar emergency with my family on-board, and even from this side of the keyboard, I can feel the adrenaline and anxiety build at such a prospect. If I ever go back, Dan and his approach to training and proficiency will be my guide.
Question for Dan: When I was doing my PPL checkride for the simulated engine out procedure I was taught by a Riddle graduate to circle the field over the middle. Just like I saw the younger guy in this video do. My DPE was losing his mind. After the checkride during the debrief he asked me. How many times do you every fly in a circle before you land? ME: Ughhhhhhh never.... I was still able to land it safely, however his point still sticks with me to this day. When you are circling over a runway, you are losing visual every 180 degrees. My DPE suggested if I'm already near the airfield just fly a traffic pattern. Either start at the base or if you have a ton of altitude to kill just start on downwind and fly the pattern normally. When he asked me how many times I've flown the pattern I said about 400 times. I really appreciated his insights. Even though I'm almost finished with IFR I asked my CFII to kill the power on random flights without giving me any notice so I could practice flying the pattern like the DPE suggested. I'm 4 for 4 and it's given me a ton of confidence.
I just did my first engine out glide to land yesterday with my instructor. I'm a student pilot with 32 hours. We were about 4 miles from the field and 4k feet. Engine out and I had too much altitude, so we circled just outside the downwind and joined the downwind a little over pattern altitude. Crossed the numbers at pattern altitude and on speed, and while aiming for the 1k markers I still had too much altitude. One forward slip later and we touched down 100 feet past the thousand foot markers. Like you said, amazing to realize how much time you really have. Huge confidence booster. To me, circling the downwind felt logical and fairly natural, as I've normally overflown to join the downwind at other times. I think the correct answer is "whatever gets you to the runway", but I'm a newb.
I am a non-pilot who has flown in small planes a few times. I’ve always wondered how people could blithely get themselves into trouble, as people I flew with seemed to be pretty well on top of things. Through your videos, I have realized it’s a false sense of security. I was never really briefed on anything other than “be quiet when I’m doing radio calls”. You guys are doing something really valuable to everyone by getting pilots to consider their flying procedures in a very different light. Can’t wait for the next one.
Decades ago a friend of mine was student pilot and he told me that he was going to take his cross country solo flight. I asked if I could go with him, just to tag along and he said yes. I was a commercial pilot at the time. I did not check his ground planning or the methods he used while on the ground for the flight, I was to go along for the ride. We took off and after 15 minutes we were approaching a town I asked him which town that was, he was wrong, he thought he had covered over twice as much ground as he actually had. It was a simple early student pilot error that should have been completely covered in his ground school training, no excuses. I asked him what side of the town was the airport located and he answered correctly. I then told him to look at his chart and follow along our direction of flight until he could identify which town had the airport in that location. He answered correctly. I asked him why he was not using his radios to help him navigate and he replied that he had never been taught how. I then made it my job to teach him in areas where he was lacking during the duration of the three hour flight. His lack of training was staggering. There is no excuse for lack of basic instruction. It was a good thing that I went with him or he may never have completed the flight. More than likely, after he had not been able to fly the three legs I suspect his instructor would have told him that he needed more training and would have gotten more duel time out of him.
Keep up the great work, and thank you for this video.
I'm in the process of knocking the dust off of my pilot's license after a decade or more of letting flying pass me by. I watched the vids with you and Dan when they came out and was impressed then. As I return focus to flying, I'm more impressed now. Besides watching these vids, I totally recommend getting a flight sim set up at home. I may never get my instrument rating but I can still train to keep me from flying to the scene of my accident. I'm guessing that most VFR only pilots never practice whatever instrument training they learned in flight school.
At the moment, I'm not in a position to get back behind the yoke, so until I can, I've dug up my old xplane 9 computer and have been practicing shooting approaches in IMC. I do not recommend using a home sim for basic flight training but it works like a charm for practicing instrument procedures.
I set up my home airport with IMC from 400' AGL to 10,000'. No wind. What I do is take off and fly back along the ILS in cloud for about 20 miles, do a 180 and shoot the approach. It is exhausting but it's a good feeling to see those runway lights enough in front of the plane that I can stick a landing, when I bust out of the muck.
Steve, this is the most emotional video I feel like I have watched on your channel. I have never had to experience an emergency in flight, but recieving this training has always been on my mind as a student pilot. I hope more flight schools can work on this training and these scenarios because it will help General Aviation for years to come. Great video and keep up the good work. Congratulations on getting your IFR cert too!
Steve this is without a doubt one of the most important things you will ever be a part of.
Bring it to the UK and I’ll do whatever I can to help. Excellent work!
Content like this is vitally important for the aviation community as a whole. As a pilot, thank you for this safety rich content that you’ve been posting lately. You might’ve just saved someone’s life exposing them to the unforgiving world of aviation we fly in!
Now that was the best flight training video I've ever seen. Thank you all so very much. Blessings to you and safe flying. Shalom
This is THE MOST important and revolutionary movement in GA since a couple bicycle mechanics decided gravity wasn’t for them over 115 years ago. Please like and share this video. This HAS to get out so we can change our industry, save lives and become better pilots. Can’t commend Dan Gryder enough on spearheading this and of course FlightChops for an amazing channel and making a real, positive difference in GA.
This is the most important conversation we need to have in GA regarding improving our piloting skills. Keep this content coming!!!!
It's amazing to see that a concept that I wrote about 12 years ago is finally seeping into the GA cockpits. I think that if Airline standards are implemented into flight training form the beginning we can enhance GA operations and criteria. No one is too young to learn nor is there an amount of hours limit to safety. GA training should move towards a higher standard of training and pilot during their PPL training should be introduced to higher levels of thinking, decision making and emergency expectancy. I am an FAA ATPL with a TR on the B 737. Good job Dan I like what you are doing.
Love this! I was apart of a partnership planning to purchase a Cessna 340 and we couldn't do it because we couldn't find insurance that would insure anyone in the airplane without a billion hours in type. More importantly, this wills save lives. General Aviation needs to be something that is not only seen as safe but is safe!
Thanks Chops,
This is probably the best, most needed video about GA flying I have ever seen. I hope Dan's techniques and methods become standard practice in GA. I hope that the FAA adopts these lessons and mandates they be taught as part of the PPL lesson plan.
I had a flight instructor similar to Dan and he protected me during training and long after with retention of the knowledge. Jim has passed and I no longer fly. Still I am here learning in his memory.
This is AWESOME Steve. Loss of power is one of my biggest fears outside of a fire, this is great training. thanks for sharing
Excellent video Steve! The airline mentality has proven to be effective and this is perfect. I don't know how there can already be 32 dislikes on this, best video yet.
Another amazing video from Steve and Dan. These guys are going to change GA for good. Every Pilot should see this video.
Still looking for that "All Dan Playlist", Chops! Great stuff!
Haha - thanks for the nudge - sorry about that. Lemme get to that over the weekend - maying a physical sticky note to remind myself. What should I call the play list?
Andrew C, Maybe "staying alive"
@@gordanmilne7034 I dig it.
This is a great concept! I hope it can spread to all GA communities and save lives. Tomorrow morning, I will have my 6-month recurrent training and experience dual generator failure, loss of DC essential bus, loss of both hydraulic pumps and the usual fires and engine failures before and after V1. I always look forwards to this shape up.
What a great video. I started my IFR training 3 months ago and no as VFR pilot could not believe how unprepared I was to fly the aircraft using the instruments.
My Dad is a retired Commercial Pilot that still does recreational flying out of Fort Lauderdale FL. I guarantee you he'd be stoked if he had that opportunity be one of those 4 pilots and test his knowledge. He is a great pilot, it be good to put him to the test to see how he performs.
Great video Steve! Smyrna was my training airport. In fact, the controller y'all were talking too was there for my first solo. I'm going to show this video to my CFI and get him to take me through the checklist for my upcoming biennial. This stuff is truly life saving!!
Seriously the best safety conversation starter I have ever seen. Please continue to make videos to expand on this.
Awesome - Yes - it is a conversation starter - exactly what we hope to see it used as
OMG! This was really fantastic, Steve and Dan! Thanks so much!
This is nothing short of amazing. As I’m currently going through flight training, I’m going to schedule time with my CFI to watch this video as well as the prequel to make sure we discuss and train this. Once my training is over, I’ll be the one responsible and I want to make sure that I’m confident in my abilities.
As students, I think we can be too timid to ask questions or ask to be trained like this.
Steve and Dan, You guys are on fire! You are making a difference by giving pilots the tools to own the situation and complete the life saving tasks before completing the flying etiquette tasks.
I’m so glad you guys are doing this, I was planning to do acrobatic and IFR training after receiving my PPL to gain more experience flying. Your course will help as well. It’s like doing donuts on a snowy day in the parking lot so that when you lose control of your car unexpectedly you have an idea how to recover.
I hope you guys know how monumental this video, process and movement is. I teach electrical safety and skills (36 yr electrician) and as I watch Flight Chops and Dan's videos for prevention of accidents and investigation videos as well as other disciplines accident investigations an amazing (to me at least) theory has emerged. 3 golden threads always seem to be woven into aviation and industrial as well as so many other videos (very prominent in yours Dan) of 1) Inattention 2) Negligence and 3) Complacency. It shows in virtually all disciplines as distraction, assumptions, failure to train/retrain, failure to get the PROPER training, inattention to process and transfer of responsibility, failure to ask and indifference to assume the obvious instead of challenging and on and on.
I believe we are seeing the birth of something here that will make a tremendous difference in GA but for those of us like me that love planes, flying, safety in any discipline I think as I said this is monumental. Keep up the push, people are dying nearly every day somewhere from GA crashes so the urgency and passion you guys have is well justified! Great Work!!
These videos w Dan are fantastic! Not yet a PPL student but from being a Flight Paramedic this info is SO topical and important! Thank you for highlighting.
Steve, one of your very best videos. Really great. Thanks!
Great video! I love what you are working on here. I hope you keep building this out and encouraging other CFIs to do this for GA flight reviews. I will share this! Keep doing more of this!
Steve, you and Dan likely just saved someone’s life. As a follow Canadian pilot, Thank you!
My thoughts exactly. Well done chaps.
This is very good! Thank you for this! I had an instructor that had me do what they called rudder stalls. Get up about 9,000 or so AGL cut the power and hold altitude as long as you can. Keep the yoke full back once you get it there and use the rubber to keep it level! The plane will drop noise high level wings at around 500 feet a minute. Then before you get to low put the power back full and recover from the stall. This can teach how not to spin when you stall. Control the stall and recover. What we want to do first when one wing starts to drop is the worst thing to do. Only the rudder can control keeping the wings level. Moving the yoke side to side only makes the wing dip more because it makes the low wing stall more. But that is what we want to do.
This is so awesome it's a blessing. Hopefully in the future there is more videos about this topic. Keep up the good work.
What an inspiring video. Well done to you and Dan for sharing!! Big time. I was discussing with my instructor how rare it is for qualified pilots to get further training in after they gain their licence...with his 10,000 hours of experience he said it seldom happens. There should be a course similar to this every pilot does every xx amount of hours or months. Bravo.
You are amazing…..just recently discovered your channel. Now I’m a Hugh fan. Thank you for you dedication to safe flying. Also your NTSB challenge is spot on.
A great line from Juan Brown at the Blancolirio RUclips channel: "It's better to demonstrate your good judgement than it is your good piloting skills............"
Good stuff, Steve. Looking forward to seeing more from this series and I'll recommend it at our next CAP meeting.....................
Or, to put it another way,
"An exceptional pilot is one who uses his exceptional judgement to avoid situations which might require the use of his exceptional skills."
Sounds like a Budd Davisson quote to me.
That been a cliche' for decades. I've been flying for 35 years and I've heard that one 1,000 times.
@@jrhunter007 Still seems like a good policy, no matter how many times you've heard it.
@@karlbrundage7472 It IS a good policy. good judgement is everything.
I won't be a pilot for several more years, but this channel has been a wealth of insight into future things i need to learn.
Best training video on the net. Nailed it. That video had some...wait for it...chops!
Put alot of hours in that green 150. can't believe I missed yall. Ever since that last video, changed my entire mind set. Thanks for this.
Steve and Dan, thank you... this truly is enlightening and I look forward to better understanding and learning from it. Greatly appreciate access to the documentation. The ATC help shown ties in closely with learning from RH & AG of The Opposing Bases podcast that controllers really are there and all to willing to help.
Dan Gryder and Steve, you guys are champs! Thank you for what you are doing!!
I would like to see the "decalre an emergency" scenario run with "just passed their test" pilots. Find out how they mess up and what everyone else can do to mitigate.
I actually think the fresh ones would do way better than the ones who have flown 15 hours a year for 10 years
Ddfrrfgghhgggggghhhggtg
So Very Proud of you Dan. You're saving Lives buddy.
Thanks, I need your help on sharing a FB video. Friend me and look for video. Thanks.
I was a student pilot in 95 flying 152's. I've always been an aviation enthusiast. My life took me on a different career path. I think that todays tech should require longer training to get a license. Not only the tech in the cockpit has changed but the tech of ATC as well. With more aircraft than ever flying the skies it's important to have an intimate knowledge of tech in the aviation field. It's no longer the 152's of my past with standard cockpits. I don't even know WTH I would do with an I-pad Kneeboard or one fixed to the yoke. I can operate I-pads or tablets but what about high stress situations when seconds count? Keep on flying Great ppl and be safe.
I've been following your channel from the beginning, it's one of the best videos. Well done!
Inadvertent IMC entry! exactly why the Kobe Bryant accident is so important to changes to FAR Part 135 Helicopter Operations. NTSB Most Wanted...Good stuff, thanks for posting Subscribed Juan.
Welcome to the channel. I enjoy your stuff as well.
You are both amazing! Love both of your channels.
I no longer fly but when I did I was very lucky to have an experienced guy who never stopped making sure I was ALWAYS "flying safe" whenever we took to the air together. Over the years his "pearls of wisdom" that he shared with me always kept me safe, be it in just normal everyday flying or some dangerous and tricky situation. This has been an excellent video, it shows and proved that training and refreshing knowledge should never stop.
See after I took my commercial checkride I asked the DPE, I said “Look, I get these stupid maneuvers are about energy management and such, but when the hell am I ever going to do these in a part 135 or 121 operation?”
He agreed with me. The checkrides need to change and the FAA needs to bring everything into the 20th century with how easy information is available to pilots nowadays
Wonderful video! Thanks to everyone helping keep us all safe out there
I'm getting the not so subtle message to practice, review, and improve.
Great episode!
I have summarized it for you here: PRACTICE REVIEW IMPROVE.
Hopefully, nobody's ghost ever says "if only our training didn't let us down" this should all be part of attaining a pilot's licence. Another great video you guys... thank you for making it.
Dan is truly going to save lives with this type of training. Thank you Steve for sharing! The FAA should take notes and tailor the certification standards to include some of this.
Very good Steve and Dan.. I had smoke in the cockpit (Cherokee pA28) I was overhead a busy airport with fire and rescue...but I pressed on 15 miles to an uncontrolled airport I knew...all ended ok..smoking radio...but my fear of declaring an emergency got the better of me that day. ...typical GA pilot decision.
Thanks for sharing - that is exactly the sort of thing we are hoping to prevent - so many pilots are afraid to declare.
Unrelated... Did we have an email chain going about a possible visit to the UK? If so, I am trying to find it... can you bump it if you can find it? Thanks, flightchops at gmail dot com
That might be the most useful aviation video ever! Keep it up Steve! Love your channel.
As an ATP/CFII that fully supports training senarios like in the video, I say great job, we need more of this!!! Thank you for your outside the box thinking and real world approach to training.
I'd recognize that tower voice anywhere. The guys at Smyrna are awesome! Did my training in Murfreesboro with MTSU, and would fly into Smyrna all the time.
This needs to be mandatory viewing for every pilot. So glad I have seen this!
As a CFI, I definitely agree that we could be doing a lot more to help lower the accident rate in GA. We need to be going above and beyond the ACS to help our students focus on what really causes accidents and what they can practice to keep themselves safe even after passing the checkride.
This video was hugely informational and I've already downloaded the AQP Document to see what I can incorporate into my Instruction. I really appreciate what you and Dan are doing. If you guys need any help, I'd love to get involved!
In the uk, we’re trained for rejected takeoff, engine failure after takeoff, pre taxi checks and vfr into imc and how to get out of imc and return to vfr
Have always received surprised instructors when I try and brief! Get the feeling they think it’s a waste of time. Love the intent of this.
Steve,
These videos of yours (and Jason Miller) are outstanding. So much useful information on them. Dan is very thought provoking.
thanks for your hard work
Keep them coming!
This is excellent! I see 7 dislikes. Who on Earth would dislike this. Thanks for this. Wings level!
What an amazing video, Steve and Dan! Thanks so much for inspiring me and many others to think seriously about how prepared we are for circumstances outside of the ordinary in the cockpit. As a newly rated, 35-hour private pilot, headed for a career in the airlines, this has been one area that I have felt the most unprepared for, and have spent many hours "chair flying" emergency scenarios. This video, however, inspired me to take a longer, more serious look at that preparation, and I must say, I need some work. So here's to more simulator time involving emergencies, and consistent practice with all types of simulated emergencies. Thanks again, your channel continues to inspire and impress me, and this (IMO) might be your best video yet.
Awesome video Steve, great stuff you're doing for GA, keep up the good work!
I love this series! As a military rotary wing aviator I assumed that these types of maneuvers and briefings were more common place, as I achieved my fixed wing ratings it became painfully obvious that these things were not common place! I love what you’re doing and congrats on your instrument rating!