Airplane Rudders! Learn to FEEL coordination in the airplane and avoid stall spin flying accidents
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- Loss of control is still a leading cause of aircraft accidents. Pilots don't have good stick and rudder skills, as a rule. But what can we do? A lot of us have read about or heard about "seat of your pants" flying skills but don't really know what that means or how to get good at it. What worse? It can be very hard to feel the airplane in many modern trainers.
In this video I will show you some things to consider as you work to develop these important skills. It's never too late -- so beginners and pros alike can benefit from these exercises! Please enjoy.
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Music by Michael Bizar
A simple statement of yours just helped me tremendously - coordinated flight is presenting both wings to the same relative airflow. I'm a low-time student and that conceptualization of the aerodynamics just clicked. Thank you!
Great stuff. I've always struggled with rudder control. I was actually practicing it on a flight by myself yesterday. Great video.
Geez if you were struggling with rudder what could I say with my ~200hrs ppl :) I guess learning never stops and your videos are great too! Cheers to all!
I watch you all the time MBP...KEEP TEACHING...
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{{o
TVoo
Fly gliders! You will really develop your stick and rudder skills. I feel getting my glider rating made me a much better pilot.
I found very little transfer from flying gliders to flying power. Learning to fly gliders was fun, but it didn't make me a better power pilot. It's just so dramatically different that there's very little overlap in the skill set from one to the other. Flying uncoordinated in a glider is intently noticeable. Flying uncoordinated in a 172 isn't even noticeable in the normal flight regime. Unless you significantly depart from normal flight by doing pretty extreme maneuvers, uncoordinated flight is barely perceptible. The slip/skid indicator will show you long before you feel it. This video is prime evidence of that. On several occasions, he says "there it is with rudder - coordinated" and yet the ball is clearly not centered. So even this highly experienced flight instructor thought he was coordinated by feel and was not.
Funny I was going to post this exactly. I started flying in gliders. Solo’d at 14. My first power lesson years later my CFI commented I was a natural with turn coordination. All from what was drilled in my head from day 1...
especially flying IFR you tend to forget the rudders in normal ops sometimes. however if you ever try flying an overpowered rotary engine prop aircraft you’ll quickly remember to watch the ball
I agree, it's really the first thing you do in a glider, the bit of string helps to for reference. Flying gliders teaches good airmanship that is for sure.
Me too, I felt the same. Just got my glider rating.
From one CFI to another, these are some great teaching tips!
Thanks Michael, I appreciate that. Have you seen our CFI club? You get free access to our ground school app and it’s packed with stuff like this. Email support@learnthefinerpoints.com with CFI club in the title. 🙌
Perennial student pilot, here. I'm a 35+ year A&P with all my experience on heavies. Built the GE90 engine for 18 of those years, so, while I know a good deal about the GA world, really, I'm still a neophyte pilot. Luckily, I have an arrangement with an owner of a 1986 Waco YMF-5, a 1946 Aeronca Chief, and wicked 1961 Cessna 182D Fastback Skylane, (as well as eight others in various states of renovation). In return for maintaining his fleet, I have access to the three airworthy aircraft, to finally complete my pilot training (though I know the training never ends). Been boning up on YT videos, and stumbled across your excellent page! Just subscribed, and I will be spending a lot of time with your spot on videos. I had a heart attack when I was 46, so I doubt I can get a medical, so I won't get certificated, but, I'll be his safety pilot and co-pilot. I'm looking forward to learning a ton from your channel. I do like the cut of your jib, sir.
Your videos are informative and to the point, thanks Jason!
I love that Jason's c172 model has no wheel on the right side so it compensate naturally the lack of student right rudder. /S
Haha you should see what a two year old can do to a Cessna model. 😳 it’s ugly
Thanks for this video. I trained a guy on a DHC-2 yesterday using the wing wiggle exercise before steep turns. Worked like a charm.
Get one of those inflatable “doughnuts” that people sit on when they have tailbone injuries. Inflate maybe half way or a little less. Uncoordinated flight will be instantly felt... in the seat of the pants. The doughnut greatly exaggerates the same sensations you would feel when uncoordinated without it. Once aware of that feeling, it’s easier to recognize. Do this in cruise only.
I love that. I will try it
I’d love to hear how it works for you.
So fly with a haemorrhoid pillow? 😂😂😂😂 how do you explain this to your fellow pilots on ground? Lolllllll
Oh yeahhhhh Merlinspop is the dude with the cockpit haemorrhoid pillow. Good guy with enormous haemorrhoids
Always great content! Keep them coming!
Liked and subscribed right away ! Thank you for this fabulous training exercise 🙏
Love these. This is what you’re meant for.
basic stick & rudder - love it
Jason you do a fine job as an instructor and a speaker. I find as I instruct my training ...the old Dutch rolls works well and they help people to coordinate rudder and stick/yolk.
Thanks, Jason. For me, coordination and propper rudder usage used to be too scary to mention, until I understood the importance of these words in terms of safety, especially in slow and low flying. And as you said, in modern airplanes, it is too difficult to use rudder pedals. They are hard to push and sometimes feel that they're almost ineffective. And for some reason, students aren't taught properly how to use them and how important they are aerodynamically speaking.
Great explanation. I will try that and see how I do. Thank you Jason.
One of the highest quality content creators.
You have a very valid point in regards to developing that seat of the pants sensation. Doesn't that come after countless hours of flying and practicing maneuvers?
In the beginning I had a very bad habit of needle chasing. My instructor would tell me I'm working on my PPL not an instrument rating(lol). He'd cover up things. That literally forced my ass to learn how to fly the plane. That was 30+yrs ago.
Great to see guys like you putting emphasis on good old seat of the pants sensation. Invaluable!
Thank you Jason.
Super. Also important to do the big control deflections at speeds well below Va to avoid structural damage.
I teach every student dutch rolls as an intro to steep turns. Keep the nose pinned on a point on the horizon while rolling hard. I've always had a hard time explaining the seat of the pants feel, and really showing the nose swinging the opposite direction. THANKS! I'll be using this video as a teaching aid from now on!
Excellent video. I'm definitely working on this on my next flight.
When I started flying a Caravan powered by a Garret engine, in which the prop rotates the opposite direction as it does on most aircraft, that was an eye opening experience. Suddenly, right rudder on takeoff and climb suddenly became left rudder. Adding power or reducing speed, more left rudder! However, it really reinforces those fundamentals that we spend so much time teaching. Sometimes, quit looking at the instruments and just trust what you feel in the airplane (ONLY GOOD FOR VFR). If we had better access to these aircraft in the training fleet, I think it would create better stick and rudder pilots. That's why I also recommend private pilots get their tailwheel endorsement, even if they don't plan to use it. Suddenly, keeping the airplane straight on rollout is very important, and more difficult when you don't have a direct link from your feet to the ground.
I’m currently getting my student endorsement, but as soon as I start flying, I want to start in a J3 cub.
I want to learn to fly like the generations before me, and then work my way up. I really believe it’ll make me a better pilot.
Love your procedures - I'm stealing them!
HI Jason, love your content. Can you please make a detail video on how to identify aiming point on approach and how to recognize the small shift that happens
Great video. Thanks!
Thanks Jason for another awesome video.
Good one!!! Thanks!
Never before have I had notification this early.
Great tips for rudder control.
Thanks for sharing
Glad to hear you got it! I never know who does and who doesn't
Thanks for giving a "how to feel coordination" lesson! Can't wait to do this!
👍🙌
Thanks!
thank you so much
I was privileged to meet the old stick and rudder aviator Duane Cole at an airshow in Indiana back in the day. He wrote a book called 'Roll Around a Point' that was a collection of aerobatic maneuvers described with line drawings. Anyway...he had this 'roll around a point' maneuver where you place and hold the nose of the airplane on a point on the horizon while rolling the aircraft to the right and then the left while keeping the noise on the selected point. You kept the airplane on point while rolling by using the opposite rudder. It is an excellent coordination exercise.
I've heard some CFI's call this a dutch roll (which I'm pretty sure is actually an incorrect term)
Great video! I learned that when I started instructing from the back seat of a tandem aircraft and couldn’t always see the ball and now give a demo to all students. Good exercise also is to line up on a mountain in the distance a roll briskly left and right and maintain the nose on the point. In the rear seat of a Citabria you are about 3 ft behind the CG so you can really feel the motion of poor rudder control where as in the front seat you are about on the CG .
Nice video still valuable. Ig et to use it today and I pass your site to my students
Great.
Thank you sir
You are one of the best
Man, that looked fun!
That's definitely a great exercise! Here in Brazil it's part of our flight training and can be requested by the examiner on a checkride. We call it “FIRST TYPE COORDINATION”.
nice!
Great videos. Hoping someday to fly with you in Cali when I’m there
Awesome video! My instructor called this maneuver, "rolls on a point." Great exercise for coordination.
IIRC some people call these "dutch rolls" as well. Something to that effect at least, don't remember exactly.
Very nice video. Loved the way you explained Stick and Rudder! I learned to fly in a North American T-28 thanks to the Navy They were all about Stick and Rudder.
Thanks
I love the T-28! What a plane to learn in! :-o
A very good lesson on a very important topic, especially in modern airplanes that mitigate but do not eliminate adverse yaw in shallow turns. For we who work at low altitude and have to maneuver aggressively, leading rudder helps with steep turns. Any who have flown Cubs, Champs, and such have learned the need to lead rudder to keep the nose from going the wrong way until we coordinate with rudder. Rudder pulls aileron. The other way ends up not being coordinated. Sounds uncoordinated to lead rudder but try some 45 degree bank Dutch rolls. You will quickly see the need. Same with shallow turns, but as you say leading aileron doesn't make an impression. Good video.
Awesome quick learning. Definitely need to play with that much more. Thanks for the tip brother.
🙌
Flying on Thursday (after Canada day). Flight test prep. Just sent this to my instructor, want to try this!
Awesome
Working on my CFI. I will 100% intergrate this into fundamentals lessons. I wish I did this exercise when I was brand new I would have picked up staying coordinated a lot sooner!
Awesome! You should check out our Ground School app for the iPad. Some great CFI tips in there ...
@@TheFinerPoints I shall check it out!
Strange that this isn’t part of what every CFI does already? Where I’m from anyone hopping into a plane with a CFI is shown what happens when you are fully uncoordinated and you sit there and do it for a full hour. This happens within the first five hours of instruction
My cfi was always on me regarding allowing the nose to yaw. Use those feet! A coordinated pilot is a safe pilot.
Thanks Jason. Coordination is always a challenge after a few weeks on the ground.
👍🙌
My instructor was doing this exact thing in my training yesterday while teaching me turns. :)
Learnt the Principal of flight formula ie., CL HALFE.ROW.V.SQUARED.S..It answers all the problems.
I’m 13 and watching ur vids to get a head start! I want to be in the Air Force when I’m older and the second I turn 17 I’m gonna get my PPL
It helped to replay the video and instead of watching you, I looked out the window and imagined what I see and feel in the turn.
Drinking game. Lindbergh reference. Hammered.
My brother was trying to explain it to me but I was still confused yesterday and I couldn’t figure it out this has just helped me and now I understand it now I just need to do this this weekend thanks for the tip.
this is what I'm working on too
Im getting ready for my add on rating for gliders and flying coordinated is a major part of flying a plane with no propulsion. Thanks for the tips. The other day I skidded in an emergency maneuver close the ground. Not good. Still trying to "feel" the coordination.
I'm still at the beginning of my PPL training and I'm definitely struggling with staying coordinated while doing turns. Hope I develop the habit of using the rudder and developing a feel for being uncoordinated the more flights I do.
Heard from CFI: stick and rudder, stick and rudder can't move one without the udder.
Amazing video! Really looking forward to try this to learn how to stay coordinated because I always look at the instrument. Too bad I am still waiting to go back to flying again at my school, haven't flown for 120 days
Left xwind? If the aircraft has clockwise turning prop (single engine) and the vertical stab has a bias to neutral rudder in cruise power then lower than cruise power (typically used in landing) would result in right yaw and therefore left rudder to straighten.
Wow....
Ironically I was just thinking about this very subject 2 days ago, as I know some guys that feel uncoordinated flight way sooner than I do!!
Hope to see ya at 1K1!
Funny, I too was JUST thinking about this. I swear RUclips’s algorithms read minds. It happens a lot that my feed follows my thought trends.
Bobby Chastain
Ha, ha, ha......
Hummmmm.......
Awesome. This exercise was indeed part of my training! I was amazed at how quickly you set the mixture... and I was watching the instruments to try and understand what you used to set it... it couldn't be EGT I thought. Would I be right to assume you used fuel flow to a value you knew would be correct? Cheers!
You can hear the engine rpm
I'm blessed that I get to fly Diamonds. Rudder input is literally toe pressure. You have to TRY to be uncoordinated in them.
in one of your videos, which I can't seem to find, you showed a yoke mounting for the IPAD, can you share the name and where to get it from.
What is the best way to do a crosswind landing
One of the first maneuvers I execute whenever I get into a new (to me) plane.
What exactly do you mean by a limbered reference? Just the sight picture through the left window?
Believe me, I do not want to look at my instruments very much accept the Air speed Indicator. I got the throttle figured out with my hearing and now going to work on getting rudders figured out by feel. Also I can see if I am uncoordinated at times but no always and I believe I am sometimes not as coordinated. I am a student pilot flying in LA Basin. The most busy airspace in the world. You keep your peepers outside 99.9 percent of the time or else.
I am learning to fly and watching a lot of the finer points. Can you put some light on your rudder pedals so you can film that area along with your stick for "coordinated filming" to go with your "coordinated flight" no one does that when instructing, i bet a lot of students like me would benefit from seeing maybe a split screen view of rudder pedals along with stick and limburg view. The Finer Points ROCK.
Roder could be a thum cantrole on the staring
a question. I hear from my instructor on landing "more right rudder..more right rudder"..
I'm well aware that on takeoff, right rudder is needed to counter the left pulling tendency of high power. .. but on landing, why is more right rudder still needed? the only thing i can think of is that the vertical stabilizer is normally offset for cruise speeds so at low speeds needs some rudder to keep aligned.... but I'm surprised this is also the case at low power settings.
..or is he just saying that because i'm generally just not good at alignment?
This video explains so much about why fixed-wing pilots transitioning to helicopters struggle so much with their feet.
!s this exercise know as a "Dutch Roll"?
Jason, what city is your flight school located?
Day 1 Dutch Rolls when first learning to fly the Cub.
For an airplane in a turn, at constant bank, airspeed, altitude, the whole aircraft is rotating in the direction of the turn, and is being accelerated in a horizontal plane to make it fly a curved path. Assume turn is correctly coordinated. What will the "ball" indicate? Will the ball stay centered even though aircraft is being rotated about the turn radius (accelerated)?
As a sim flyer, for the longest time I had trouble with coordination because there's no feel of it behind a desk. I didn't understand why it was a big deal, or how to achieve it without staring at the dumbest-looking gauge in the cockpit. I also had a lot of trouble just doing it physically, due to the center detent of the pedals. About 10 years ago I went up in a real 172 with one of my sim flying buddies and his instructor, and it all clicked for me in 30 seconds once I was able to feel the airplane. Flying uncoordinated just felt deeply wrong, like driving on a road with a bad slant. Furthermore, the natural aerodynamic feel of real airplane controls was so smooth and easy compared to the clunky spring system of my cheap Saitek pedals. It was really eye opening, and I'm actually really proud of the fact that the CFI never had to say "right rudder" except right on takeoff before we started moving. Since then I upgraded to some better sim pedals, and have gotten much better at staying coordinated using only visual references. Some really brutal lessons in rudder control from the DCS F-14 also helped a lot; you simply cannot fly that airplane with lazy feet.
I have my first discovery flight tomorrow, hopefully leading into real training if I like the school. Hopefully 20 years of sim experience will save me an hour to two in the training.
I’m going to need a status update!
@@float32 I got my private pilot's license 2 weeks ago! I think it's fair to say that a boat load of sim experience probably did help to save "an hour or two" from the training, but probably no more than that. I believe simming gave me a big advantage in flying "under the hood" on the instruments, as well as some of the more robust maneuvers such as the steep turn and power-on stall recovery. I think reading "stick and rudder" was at least as beneficial as the sim time.
It still feels surreal that I can just rent an actual real no-kidding airplane and, just kinda mess around in the sky. I'm just a nobody, but I DID IT.
@@JETZcorp that’s great! congrats!
I would of liked to seen your foot inputs on the rudders. I'm struggling with rudder control the most in my training.
Send this video to your instructor and ask him to do this exercise with you. He didn't show the inputs because it's something you have to work out for yourself by doing this exercise.
Actually I got the name of the Duane Cole's book wrong. It was called 'Conquest of Lines and Symmetry' by Duane Cole 1971.
He signed my copy which I treasure to this day.
What does coordination feel like? A mountainside in imc.
Who did you take those photos of your feet for?
It seems that my body automatically takes over and my feet move to adjust the rudder pedals to fly coordinated. It's like my body does not like uncoordinated and fixes it automatically without me thinking about it. Maybe because I ski race, and ride bikes.
Thanks for that. So many pilots slipping around because they are not used to use rudder as intense as they might need. maybe they are waking up now :) greetings from germany
Greetings!
Learning to fly a tail dragger with minimally effective flaps is good. You learn to use slips to land when high. It is oh so easy to enter a spin from a skid. Hard to spin from a slip. The instructor yelling "top pedal" through dozens of base to final turns creates a habit of avoiding skids. Crop dusters use a 2-3 G pull up wingover turnaround at the end of the field, stay perfectly coordinated, and don't spin. Practice avoiding bottom rudder turns.
I've been practicing this and practicing this. But something just isn't right. I am not feeling anything when I make those sharp aileron turns in Microsoft flight simulator. But that's okay, I just turn on the coordination mode in settings.
Good training tips for newbies. "Seat of your pants" of course will kill you in IMC. Just thinking that new pilots need this qualified as to not minimize watching and believing the instruments. I didn't watch every single second of the video and maybe it was mentioned. Example: Starting a turn with ailerons only and relaxing elevator input slightly which a lot of students do essentially negates anything getting transmitted to your caboose.
From a learning standpoint it really should be mandatory for PP candidates put some time in an aerobatic plane. I didn't start aerobatic work until long after I had my Instrument rating. As a result of this I found my vision works much more efficiently in maintaining coordinated flight vs seat of the pants. Properly performed aileron rolls, barrel rolls, standard spins, and inverted spins would solve any coordination issues, or scare the pilot into never coming back. :-) Wish I would have done it sooner. Just my two cents.
Jason very nice vídeo, no body talks abbout this .
Only one think, before, you center the ball, or feel center the control column, and it takes care of de the ball, and al the rest, you learn fly by instin, not wacthing the instruments.
Happy Landings!!
againg nice and rare video
Thanks! 🙌
your nose is drawing a U when you roll back and forth uncoordinated you feel pressure when the nose hits the bottom of the U due to the vector changing.
As a student pilot with less that 14 hours under my belt I have say im struggling with this the most.
Dutch rolls!
Did you say foreplay?
Dutch rolls?
This works with new Cessna but most of the training fleet have old airplanes and they aren't as well rigged as the newer birds
Your model airplane is missing a wheel, I would have loved to see the lesson being taught in that one 😂.
This is great!...but SO scary to try. When does the confidence come to know that trying these things isn't going to plummet me to the ground?
Confidence comes from experience. Grab a CFI and do it until you feel comfortable. It’s a different amount of time for everyone. Your brain needs to learn to trust the engineering. It always works. 🙌
You would (of course) first do this with an instructor as part of training and only do it alone when you are authorised to do so. Even after you get your license, you would still do some checks before maneuvres to ensure you and the aircraft are safe + other people are also safe. For example, the famous HASELL check that precedes upper airwork.
Height : Sufficient to recover in case of emergency - minimum recovery by 2000' AGL
Airframe: Flaps, Landing gear retracted (or as necessary)
Security: No loose articles in the cockpit, hatches closed, seat-belt and harness on
Engine: Temperature/pressure gauge in the green, carb-heat as needed (if going below a certain power setting), on some aircraft you may need to change fuel tank to be on the fullest, set power
Location: Not above busy traffic area, not above aerodromes, built up areas, mountainous terrain, ensure that your exercise will not have you being blinded by the sun etc
Lookout: What you saw the instructor do in this video, make clearing turns - could be a full 180 or a 90 to the left and a 90 to the right. You want to make sure there is nobody around you. And check up and below. My instructor also taught me that when doing so, look-out for possible field that you can use for forced landing in case you "plummet" to the ground :)
I can't even do coordinate walk after a couple of drinks, let alone coordinate turn
Chuck Yeager on AOA indicator - "That to me is [a] stupid instrument, it tells you what your AOA is. If you don't know, you shouldn't be flyin'"
This topic reminded me of that. Be the airplane.
Then again, he was pointing at the AoA indicator in a fighter jet, where pilots don't have the luxury of always feeling how the plane flies to the level of precision necessary to do their job.
A wheel is missing on the small airplaine !
😉
Do you still teach new students that want to learn how to fly
Where are you located at.
KSQL