Reposting this comment from the first upload: The injuries for the run across Rohan were as follows. Viggo had 2 broken toes from the infamous helmet kicking incident. Orlando had broken ribs from falling off of his horse. And JRD's size double had a DISLOCATED KNEE. Furthermore the way they were shot was from helicopter and not on a shot by shot basis. Peter would just tell them to start running in a vague direction and then spend the whole day basically flying around in the chopper getting tons of footage from various different angles. They had to run on those injuries for basically hours at a time. File that away in the, "shit no one will ever do again" section.
Bernard Hill also had a broken rib from the scene when he arrives at Helms Deep, while dismounting if i am not mistaken. And I think it was his first scene in the movie.
In the books, Rohan actually wasn't selling their horses to Isengard or Mordor, this was a false rumor. Boromir explains they'd sooner sell their own families than sell their horses. I imagine the rumor was started to cause further tension between Rohan and Gondor
The lord of the black land offered to purchase horses at great price. Rohan said no, so they send orcs to steal them. Also Rohan has already been at war with Saruman for months
I watch my Extended Edition and the Extras about once a year and end up in tears every time, and I'm a grown ass man. Not many things make me as emotional as LotR. 60% of my tears come from watching the movies and the rest from the extras. The love, the care, the respect for the source material, the craftwork and passion, and the sheer dedication and hard work involved in making these movies is almost overwhelming to a movie buff. These aren't just great movies, they're a testament to what us humans are capable of on our best day when we put petty bullshit aside and work together...
"For Frodo" and "My friends, you bow to no one" are just 2 moments that always get me, every time. Anyone who doesn't get emotional from those 2 lines (and many others) are soulless.
@@TossMySalad69 It really does say *A LOT* about a person if they don't have any emotional reaction to "My friends, you bow to no one." That's unironically perhaps *THE* most powerful payoff in all of film history. It is *SO* fucking *earned.*
Gotta compliment the editing. It's kind of mind-blowing how much personality you guys manage to add to the tokens with all the little animations and zooms.
Exactly that. She sent them away into the direction of certain safety, hope; she didn't abandon them, she chose not to accompany them because she didn't want to burden the steed, invariably slowing its stride when the enemy is understood to be hours from overtaking them (it's why the evacuees are all told to leave most of their possessions behind and take only absolutely necessary provisions). That's what the men of the Rohirrim would have fought to prevent weren't they sent away, it's the absolute sum of any good father's worst nightmares.
@@tenebreh7363 I'm pretty sure in that scene the orcs are already starting to raid the village, or at least within sight, no? It would give all the more reason for the horse to be as fast as possible.
@@daveyjones8969Correct, in the book at minimum, the orcs were in sight of the village, having managed to get in close during the night as there were no watchmen. The mother weighs as much as her children combined, so she stays behind to not weigh the horse down (also you can't really fit three people on the horse, the two kids barely fit). The boy can control the horse, and the horse will run far faster and longer with just the two of them
Faramir’s speech over the dead kid is the INSTANT win against cynical pretentious losers like George R.R. Martin who pretend these stories don’t expand on the enemies.
I disagree with Drinker’s take that the initial Balrog scene is some kind of foreshadowing that Gandalf lived. Mooler had it right: for people who didn’t know what would happen, seeing Gandalf falling hundreds of stories, in a cave, duking it out with a demon of the ancient world to collide with water is far more “yep, dude is dead” a response than “maybe somehow he survived!”
It's a good fake out in case people were aware he was involved in the filming of the second movie. Kind of like how Spock "dies" in Wrath of Khan in the first scene he appears in, in case people heard that he dies in that. I mean, yeah, he's a wizard, but he's plunging however many countless feet down a mine shaft with a balrog. It's hard not to imagine he dies when he hits the ground. And let's not forget it was strongly suggested to be a nightmare Frodo was having.
The books had also been out for a long time and had been read by a ton of people. So, the fact that he did survive and kill the Balrog wasn't really a secret. So when making the film, they needed to balance the fact that a lot of people already knew what happened and make a good scene for those who didn't know.
I had a friend who had never seen LOTR until just a couple months ago. He'd seen LOTR memes, and even was aware of the concept of "Gandalf the White" but did not know that Gandalf was just going to resurrect in the middle of the movie. To drinker's point, "You know he's not just going to die in the middle of fighting the Balrog"- He did die.
The open with Gandalf and the Balrog was a deliberate creative choice - Peter Jackson and his team felt there was a lot of dialogue heavy narrative to get through, so if they opened with a spectacular fight the audience would settle in for the rest. Drinker may not like it, but audience response confirms their decision was a good read of the overall impact of the experience.
I get what you're saying, but as a fan of the books it did seem like an odd choice to me to give away the reveal that he's still alive. The first time reading the books it's a BIG, surprising reveal when he's alive. I like it either way though.
@@aldunlop4622 yeah, it's one of the many changes they made to try and keep the spirit of the books while keeping audience's attention. Technically, it only reveals the possibility of his survival, which I get some argue would be the same thing, but it doesn't tell when or how he returns, so that is where they kept the surprise. It may not have fit for the novel structure, but it works well enough for the film that most people enjoy it.
The first time I saw it as a non-book-reader, I interpreted the scene as a way to give the audience insight into Frodo's state of mind with his guilt and the weight he feels to avenge his friends by completing his quest. It is clearly presented as a recurring nightmare that Frodo is having, and in Frodo's mindset, that last image is just before Gandalf hits the water and turns to red goo, a horrifying death. It could be the Ring is specifically conjuring these images to Frodo's mind to taunt him with how weak he is and persuade him into abusing its power. Point is the scene serves a narrative function and so it doesn't immediately make the audience question why we're being shown a character who presumably won't be showing up alive again. I don't think it inherently gives away Gandalf's return, but also technically speaking it is a different character, the Gandalf in that scene DID die to his wounds, it is a literal Deus Ex Machina that Tolkien brought him back, even if it's a well done one.
I think it was partly to set up the return so it isn’t out of no where and builds on the fact Gandalf isn’t merely a powerful wizard but a maiar which is important for TT and ROTK
Ah, no, the axe Gandalf breaks is a smaller throwing axe Gimli previously used at Amon Hen, his main axes are a longer one bit, and the double bitted from Moria.
@@haakonhaugan7340 Okay, I've never scrutinized the weapons and gear too closely before but that's a good detail then. Makes sense he would know better than to throw a war axe.
@@CrustlessKingIn the tie-in movie games, Gimli uses smaller throwing axes for range and double bit for melee. I always wondered how many he had lol, I like to imagine he just whips a hatchet out of his beard whenever he's in need of one lol
What people don’t understand is how much the elves are sacrificing just being at Helms Deep. They could have just gone to the undying lands and not have to worry about Sauron. They are giving up paradise to fight in a battle facing certain death
@@jcheck1107 As far as I know their "essence" or soul does not die, but it can take many thousands of years before it is reborn. That process is only rarely accelerated in times of need for legendary heroes such as Glorfindel. Another exception to this rule is Elrond's blessed bloodline (due to the whole Beren and Lúthien history), where each descendant is able to choose between mortality and immortality, with Arwen choosing mortality in order to stay (and die) with Aragorn. That's my understanding, at least.
@@SassyCassie89 I don't actually remember that part of the book, did the elves not show up at all ? From what I recall, Haldir died defending Lothlorien it's basically the only thing that comes to my mind and I'm not even sure it's part of the second book, might be from the timeline thingy at the end.
I play a dwarf in our DnD group, and my movement speed is so slow I really empathize with Gimli in this movie. The battle is on the other side of the castle and I'm taking 3 turns to sprint over there yelling "I'M COMING, DON'T DIE FRIENDS!"
In the book, Gimli is in the caves defending the women and children at that point. Once the uruks got through the wall, the caves were completely open for them to go into and start slaughtering.
And to think, Filoni would come along and steal Gandalf's return from Tolkien for his golden child Ahsoka, without understanding the context of what actually happened in LOTR.
I liked your digression on accents in fantasy, because I have been reading LotR to my kid at bedtime and it's been a fun exercise for my ability to impersonate (or, more accurately, caricature) certain accents and to depart from the default British accents in some places. The Rohirrim are cowboys, Sam is a good ol' sunthen boy, the elves are Finnish, and Denethor gets my Alex Jones impression.
Always found it bizarre that Peter Jackson said that the "definitive edition" of Two Towers is the theatrical cut, and that the extended edition is just a "novelty for fans" who wants to see the extra scenes...
@@johnbd9765 Uh, categorically fucking false, mate. Return of the King has Saruman's death scene now thanks to the Extended Edition. That film is non-negotiably *improved* by the extended footage. As it was demonstrably proven to be worse *without* that footage when the films originally released in theaters and *everyone* was confused about what happened ro Saruman, and WHY the Palantir was just sitting around on the ground OUTSIDE of the Tower of Orthanc.
From what I remember, Haleth, the kid that Aragorn said "This is a good sword." to. His father was Hamas, the guy who asked for Gandalf staff. He died in the fight with the wargs. I feel like Aragorn would be aware of this, and as well as trying to encourage him for the battle to come. He's making him feel better about his father's death.
To Drinker’s point about shooting the Uruks with arrows after the Deeping wall is breached instead of charging, they needed to close the breach immediately. They will not have a great enough volume of arrow fire to accomplish what the press of bodies in melee would.
I feel the need to mention that Wormtongue only earned that name AFTER becoming Theoden King's advisier, and even then only with those who didn't trust him. You'll also notice that he's the only Rohirrim with black hair. It's implied that he's a Dunlending, at least by blood, which contributed to his negative reputation.
@@HerohammerStudios the Wild Men of Dunland, the guys Saruman recruited. According to other parts of the Legendarium, all of Rohan belonged to the Dunlendings until Gondor conquered it, and later gave it to the Rohirrim as thanks for aid in another war, setting up an eternal rivalry between the two peoples on the plain.
Watching The Lord of the Rings always makes me feel better, works especially well when I'm going through some hard times. There are no other movies which fill me with hope the way LOTR does. It's magical in a way, how much of an impact can movies have on us.
I'm a massive metalhead, and Drinker's claim that LotR isn't metal is so baffling, I decided to go through my entire Spotify library to find every band that is either named after something Tolkien related or have an album that's Tolkien related (I won't make an effort to list specific songs because that would take too long, but some bands will be mentioned if I happen to see them and they have a song that qualifies). I'm also only going to include good bands, so no Amon Amarth. I'll also include the subgenre of metal they play to emphasize how widespread LotR is in metal. They are as follows: 1) Aran Angmar (black metal, name means "king of Angmar" in Sindarin) 2) Attacker (heavy/power metal, have an album called "Battle of Helm's Deep") 3) Blind Guardian (power metal, have an album called "Nightfall in Middle-earth") 4) Brocas Helm (epic heavy metal, have a song called "Helm's Deep") 5) Burzum (atmospheric black metal, name means "darkness" in Black Speech) 6) Cirith Ungol (doom metal) 7) Cromlech (epic doom metal, have a few songs like "For a Red Dawn," "Shadow and Flame," and "Turambar (Master of Doom/By Doom Mastered)") 8) Druadan Forest (epic black metal) 9) Dwarrowdelf (atmospheric black metal) 10) Eldamar (atmospheric black metal) 11) Emissary (heavy/power metal, have a song called "Tales of the Third Age") 12) Emyn Muil (epic black metal) 13) Firienholt (epic black metal, have a few songs like "Ashes of the Golden Hall" and "The Whispering Shadow") 14) Gorgoroth (black metal) 15) Graveland (black metal, have a song called "White Hand's Power") 16) Grimdor (black metal, have an album called "The Land of Shadow") 17) Isengard (black/folk metal) 18) Knight & Gallow (heavy metal, have a song called "Men of the West") 19) Megadeth (thrash metal, have a song called "This Day We Fight," and this song was used in the RotK EFAP Movies) 20) Moontowers (heavy metal, have a song called "Fear the White Hand") 21) Morgoth (death metal) 22) Morgul Blade (heavy metal) 23) Mumakil (grindcore) 24) Oathbringer (heavy/power metal, have songs such as "Moria" and "Morgoth") 25) Orodruin (doom metal) 26) Reverend Bizarre (doom metal, have a song called "Cirith Ungol") 27) Sauron (black/thrash metal) 28) Summoning (epic black metal, have lots of albums including "Minas Morgul" and "Dol Guldur") 29) Utumno (death metal) This is by no means a comprehensive list. There are so many metal bands who write about LotR and fantasy as a whole, it'd be impossible to count them. And no Gary, Led Zeppelin isn't a metal band. They do like LotR tho Edit: I've added more bands that I've either forgotten or discovered since I originally posted this to further prove the point and to share more recs
53:51 apparently, the flag came off completely by accident, and PJ thought it was so great he put it in. Just one of many instances of coincidental brilliance
I’m all here for the “Viggo broke his toe” meme. But either serious or as a joke there’s an irony to it all because 90% of people say did you know he broke his toe… but they are all factually incorrect. So, because it must be said (correctly), I am here to say…did you know in that shot that Viggo broke TWO TOES. Get wrecked nerds.
19:12 The funniest part about Americans pulling off British, Scottish or more European accents, is that I originally discovered the Critical Drinker while preparing for my role as Angus from MacBeth. I was trying to find some dialect coaching videos on the matter, my accent ended up sounding like a bizarre blend of the Despot of Antrim and David Tennant, not what I would consider a true world accent but it worked for the theatre.
Thanks for all this Mauler. Ive always loved lotr i could quote the entire first movie of the top of my head lol. I had one other friend who loved it as much as i did, life happened and we don’t talk anymore. It means a lot to someone like me (who doesn’t have anybody in real life to share their passion for these movies) to listen to you guys and your takes. ❤
I know Tolkien insists that the war had not shaped what he had made, but so much of it touches on concepts only a man in that time could truly describe. It is cosmic luck we managed to get a trilogy as powerful as this.
@reek4062 so you think higher of the other media based on LOTR? Why not remove everything that isn't the hobbit because that came first. Burn the appendacies and the silmarilion. That is the kind of argument you are making here.
@@AimlessSavant Lol. Technically speaking The Tale of Tinuviel and The Fall of Gondolin came two decades before The Hobbit, though Tolkien didn't publish them.
Sam is hands down my favorite character, even more so in the books. The chapter where he saves frodo in Minas Morgul is awesome. He casts the shadow of a mighty elf warrior while climbing the stairs because he is that caliber of hero
The Rohan pennant tearing off its pole was unintentional, but they kept filming. Where it lands among the party is obviously an intentional tie-in after the fact
Nobody ever seems to mention it about the second film but the end song is absolutely perfect for setting the tone when you leave the theater. It got completely overlooked by the overall score and the song from the final film but to me its just as good. I always think its criminal that nobody mentions it. Its such a perfect complimentary piece of art for the film and it really deserves recognition.
Idk if anyone else notices but when Theodon is having his "where is the horse and the rider" moment it sounds like there is a secondary audio of a whispered version of the script layered in
If you guys love Andy Serkis I highly recommend doing some sort of coverage on the Planet of the Apes movies, I’d argue he’s even more impressive as Caesar than as Gollum
When you mention that the world feels bigger than Frodo's journey, one of the things that comes to mind is how irrelevant that journey becomes in the grand scheme of things. Like, imagine if Helms Deep fell and Gondor was occupied. Maybe Frodo succeeds in his mission, but to what end? The World of Men is now toast. The Elves are probably gone by now, rowing to the East. Killing Sauron prevents a significant threat from returning, sure. But, it wasn't the be-all of the conflict in Middle Earth. It was one problem among many. That kind of scale puts a lot of the larger narrative into perspective.
Not to mention the fact that their stories converge at the end there, with Aragorn drawing Sauron's attention and clearing the path for Frodo. Without each succeding in their tasks up to this point, they could not have gone any further from there.
In the books, there's a substance, The Shadow. It's like an evil presence that comes with evil deeds and evil beings. Light breaks the Shadow, most of the "magic" that Gandalf uses is light shining.
I hadn’t read the books when Fellowship came out but I called Gandalf coming back as soon as he fell off the bridge. I thought it would be more of a force ghost situation though.
Yeah I had read the books many times and it definitely felt like a spoiler in the movie. On the other hand, there's a lot of boring stuff happening in the story, basically just people running or walking. Another way they COULD have done it was to have some Rohan/Saruman scene at the start showing Theoden being corrupt and ordering Eomer away, saving the Balrog fight for a flashback later. It's still an epic opening to Two Towrs though.
It's too long back for me to remember, but I think I understood it to be a mere nightmare that is haunting Frodo, where he is imagining Gandalf's last seconds before his death, and I did not necessarily conclude anything about Gandalf returning.
Really am glad I watched the Every Frame a Painting video on F For Fake right before watching this films because I kept noticing how they jumped between plots. And like being able to tell when the jump was about to happen was really neat.
On the Gandalf Vs Balrog fight at the beginning: in Fellowship, when Frodo is running from Boromir with the ring on, when he sits on the seeing platform, a voice commands him to take off the ring that was Gandalf when he was fighting the Balrog up the mountain. So even the source was hinting that he survived.
The discussion about Wormtongue is interesting, I see a parallel with Bilbo sparing Golumn. Both deserved death but neither HAD to be killed and in the end both had a role to play.
I was in my 20s when I saw Gandalf fight the Balrog. I hadn't opened LoTR in over a decade at that point and totally forgot what happened and I had no idea Gandalf was coming back until there were mutterings of a Wizard in the forest. I thought they played the whole fight as almost like a dream sequence anyway?
1:22:58 I really appreciate that wolf actually found out that someone made helms deep in halo infinite. someone even made other lands of middle earth like Minas Tirith
They should have played the flashback to Gandalf killing the Balrog DURRING the scene in which he returns. Because this entire segment is told by Gandalf himself anyway.
Dragonforce are a peak example of fantasy/nerdism and metal combining in an orchestra of audio references and spectacular fantasy opera. Highly recommended
I think the sequencd at the start where gandalf fights the balrog as they fall could have been added to the part where he explained what happened to Aragorn and Co. Keep the opening scene up until where gandalf lets go and then cut to Frodo waking up from the nightmare. This way we could keep both scenes and all we do is shuffle where it occurs. Win win, and no need to remove anything methinks.
In the movie dont the orcs have the white hand sigil? Unless im mistaken but if you wave a banner then you fight for that person so not so hard to put together.
16:37 - no, they didn't! Doubly no when it comes what Garry from Nerdrodic said about Rohan giving tribute from horses to Mordor - so much for Garry being an expert 😉 If you remember what Tolkien wrote in a novel it would be obvious to you that horse - especially black one - were stolen from Rohan and that Rohirim would never willingly give them away to the Dark Lord, since they love their horses.
Drinker's point at the beginning is valid. Reading the books gave him insight. There is a balance that can be argued for explaining Gandalf's character before he falls from the bridge. Maybe explaining more that he's virtually a god.
His horn being cloven in two is confirmation that he died because he blew the final blast on it so powerfully that it was heard all the way in Gondor. It was at that moment that Denothor knew boromir had died. The broken horn washing up on shore was just confirmation, it was an ancient heirloom, so boromir would have defended it with his life. (This is all from the books of course, you guys didn't miss anything in the movie)
What they did differently they mentioned in the documentaries that taught me a trick in photoshop: transparent layering. Flesh is not opaque it’s transparent layers. Hold a flashlight to your hand to see
10 месяцев назад+2
We need a GDELB with constant referencing to ladders.
In the book, Pippin and Merry keep their height. They become famous for (among other things) being rather tall for a Hobbit in the shire. Also the scene is splicing two scenes in the book. The Water from Wllinghall as you see it. And Old Man Williow from the Old forest (Sam, Frodo, Pippin and Merry). Some of them get squished/swallowed, one hobbit starts a fire and starts cutting it, which causes the tree to become angrier. And then Tom Bombadil enters the scene and saves them. PS: The flag tearing off was not planned, it was an accident, they then shot the scene where it falls down in front of the gate. Happy Accident.
Drinker needs to re fucking think his opinion about the opening sequence with gandalf and the balrog, Glad you boys put him in his place. Showing them fighting in no way guarantees gandalf is being RESURRECTED. there are so many ways to interpret that scene with frodo jolting up. Why wouldnt the assumption be he's dead because they fell for a long ass time and hit the water pretty hard..
Rohan is a great culture especially worthy for preserving and defended against the Orcs, because as the Drinker says (16:10): the majesty of their landscape, the way they go into battle, ... etc, but most of all IMHO, because they have the DNA that produces the beautyy that is in Eowyn (Theoden's neice).
I don't think the opening scene gives away that gandalf is alive because they frame it as a dream. I always saw it as frodo sort of inventing a story in his head to cope with the situation. I never thought there was any indication that that first seen actually happened until you see him actually return in the forest
Reposting this comment from the first upload: The injuries for the run across Rohan were as follows. Viggo had 2 broken toes from the infamous helmet kicking incident. Orlando had broken ribs from falling off of his horse. And JRD's size double had a DISLOCATED KNEE. Furthermore the way they were shot was from helicopter and not on a shot by shot basis. Peter would just tell them to start running in a vague direction and then spend the whole day basically flying around in the chopper getting tons of footage from various different angles. They had to run on those injuries for basically hours at a time. File that away in the, "shit no one will ever do again" section.
They were running almost purely off of chocolate and coffee.
Chasing the uruks to Isengard must be great cardio
Womp wompppp
And this is what it takes to actually make good movies.
In person.. on location.. actually doing physical activity..
Bernard Hill also had a broken rib from the scene when he arrives at Helms Deep, while dismounting if i am not mistaken. And I think it was his first scene in the movie.
The flag tearing and blowing away in edoras was unintentional. The timing was perfect. Everything came together perfectly in these films
A Higher Being was watching and provided an end to the scene. It was thinking... This is the best you're going to get for a while.
Eru Illuvitar does indeed work in mysterious ways~
God literally willed it.
the integration of chat was in fact worth it. appreciate the hours and hours of editing mauler. salted pork
I don't usually do re-watchers, but i'll gladly rewatch this Efap.
Been rewtaching if for weeks. I need help! 😅
It's LOTR, not a hard time to convince me to watch it again.
I barely even remember LOTR, I'm here for the SImpsons references. And I know I need to rewatch LOTR before anyone says anything lol.
In the books, Rohan actually wasn't selling their horses to Isengard or Mordor, this was a false rumor. Boromir explains they'd sooner sell their own families than sell their horses. I imagine the rumor was started to cause further tension between Rohan and Gondor
The lord of the black land offered to purchase horses at great price. Rohan said no, so they send orcs to steal them. Also Rohan has already been at war with Saruman for months
That actually makes sense.
@@mosconebailbonds1119well... sort of.
An undeclared war, as the king of Rohan was... absent... at the time.
"GANDALF! I thought you were dead???" - "I WAS!"
"I got bettuh"
"But I LIVED!"
"The Gravewalker!?"
"I thought he was dead?"
"He is!"
I watch my Extended Edition and the Extras about once a year and end up in tears every time, and I'm a grown ass man. Not many things make me as emotional as LotR. 60% of my tears come from watching the movies and the rest from the extras. The love, the care, the respect for the source material, the craftwork and passion, and the sheer dedication and hard work involved in making these movies is almost overwhelming to a movie buff. These aren't just great movies, they're a testament to what us humans are capable of on our best day when we put petty bullshit aside and work together...
"For Frodo" and "My friends, you bow to no one" are just 2 moments that always get me, every time. Anyone who doesn't get emotional from those 2 lines (and many others) are soulless.
@@TossMySalad69
It really does say *A LOT* about a person if they don't have any emotional reaction to "My friends, you bow to no one."
That's unironically perhaps *THE* most powerful payoff in all of film history. It is *SO* fucking *earned.*
GAY
@@slaplace123 Imbecile…
@@slaplace123No you
My thoughts dwell in Rivendell.
My appetite feasts in the Shire.
My courage belongs to Gondor.
But my heart will forever lie within Rohan.
Very gay.
It’s weird; I like both your posts…I'm confused now…
@@EmptyAltruism ...and now I liked yours! Checkmate!
Arrrgh!!! My one weakness!!!!!!
Gotta compliment the editing. It's kind of mind-blowing how much personality you guys manage to add to the tokens with all the little animations and zooms.
I particularly liked that bit where Rags failed for a long time with his joke, and the editor replaced the icons with crickets and a frog.
Roses are red
Running is hard
They're taking the hobbits
To Isengard.
Why
@@compostsmurf5519 so Saruman can "spoil" them, of course!
@@Kevin-jb2pvso Saruman can “despoil”
Then you mean!!
Nice
I think the point of the woman sending her kids away on the horse was so that it wasn't as weighed down and could run faster, farther.
Exactly that. She sent them away into the direction of certain safety, hope; she didn't abandon them, she chose not to accompany them because she didn't want to burden the steed, invariably slowing its stride when the enemy is understood to be hours from overtaking them (it's why the evacuees are all told to leave most of their possessions behind and take only absolutely necessary provisions). That's what the men of the Rohirrim would have fought to prevent weren't they sent away, it's the absolute sum of any good father's worst nightmares.
@@tenebreh7363 I'm pretty sure in that scene the orcs are already starting to raid the village, or at least within sight, no? It would give all the more reason for the horse to be as fast as possible.
@@daveyjones8969Correct, in the book at minimum, the orcs were in sight of the village, having managed to get in close during the night as there were no watchmen. The mother weighs as much as her children combined, so she stays behind to not weigh the horse down (also you can't really fit three people on the horse, the two kids barely fit). The boy can control the horse, and the horse will run far faster and longer with just the two of them
Faramir’s speech over the dead kid is the INSTANT win against cynical pretentious losers like George R.R. Martin who pretend these stories don’t expand on the enemies.
I disagree with Drinker’s take that the initial Balrog scene is some kind of foreshadowing that Gandalf lived. Mooler had it right: for people who didn’t know what would happen, seeing Gandalf falling hundreds of stories, in a cave, duking it out with a demon of the ancient world to collide with water is far more “yep, dude is dead” a response than “maybe somehow he survived!”
Technically Gandalf did die in that scene, Eru Ilúvatar (God) sent him back to finish his task
I mean when I first saw it I thought they were showing that scene to tell the audience Gandalf would be back in the movie
It's a good fake out in case people were aware he was involved in the filming of the second movie. Kind of like how Spock "dies" in Wrath of Khan in the first scene he appears in, in case people heard that he dies in that.
I mean, yeah, he's a wizard, but he's plunging however many countless feet down a mine shaft with a balrog. It's hard not to imagine he dies when he hits the ground.
And let's not forget it was strongly suggested to be a nightmare Frodo was having.
The books had also been out for a long time and had been read by a ton of people. So, the fact that he did survive and kill the Balrog wasn't really a secret.
So when making the film, they needed to balance the fact that a lot of people already knew what happened and make a good scene for those who didn't know.
Also, Gandalf does die.
I had a friend who had never seen LOTR until just a couple months ago. He'd seen LOTR memes, and even was aware of the concept of "Gandalf the White" but did not know that Gandalf was just going to resurrect in the middle of the movie.
To drinker's point, "You know he's not just going to die in the middle of fighting the Balrog"-
He did die.
After the reprimanding that saruman gave gandalf about "his love of the halflings leaf"...and he's got a stash of it up to the rafters!
RIP Bernard Hill. Cannot believe that the day I’m watching this is the day he died.
Forth Eolingas!
Théoden - 'And who will come. Elves? Dwarves?'
Rags - 'WILD MEN!'
.... yes. That .... that is what he said. Well done?
The open with Gandalf and the Balrog was a deliberate creative choice - Peter Jackson and his team felt there was a lot of dialogue heavy narrative to get through, so if they opened with a spectacular fight the audience would settle in for the rest. Drinker may not like it, but audience response confirms their decision was a good read of the overall impact of the experience.
Oh yeah and apparently Drinker's never heard of Led Zeppelin.
I get what you're saying, but as a fan of the books it did seem like an odd choice to me to give away the reveal that he's still alive. The first time reading the books it's a BIG, surprising reveal when he's alive. I like it either way though.
@@aldunlop4622 yeah, it's one of the many changes they made to try and keep the spirit of the books while keeping audience's attention. Technically, it only reveals the possibility of his survival, which I get some argue would be the same thing, but it doesn't tell when or how he returns, so that is where they kept the surprise. It may not have fit for the novel structure, but it works well enough for the film that most people enjoy it.
The first time I saw it as a non-book-reader, I interpreted the scene as a way to give the audience insight into Frodo's state of mind with his guilt and the weight he feels to avenge his friends by completing his quest. It is clearly presented as a recurring nightmare that Frodo is having, and in Frodo's mindset, that last image is just before Gandalf hits the water and turns to red goo, a horrifying death. It could be the Ring is specifically conjuring these images to Frodo's mind to taunt him with how weak he is and persuade him into abusing its power. Point is the scene serves a narrative function and so it doesn't immediately make the audience question why we're being shown a character who presumably won't be showing up alive again. I don't think it inherently gives away Gandalf's return, but also technically speaking it is a different character, the Gandalf in that scene DID die to his wounds, it is a literal Deus Ex Machina that Tolkien brought him back, even if it's a well done one.
I think it was partly to set up the return so it isn’t out of no where and builds on the fact Gandalf isn’t merely a powerful wizard but a maiar which is important for TT and ROTK
What i love about gimlis axes is that before mlria, he does not have the double headed axe. He takes that axe (balins axe) from balins tomb. So cool
So Gandalf destroyed a precious Dwarven heirloom just to troll on Gimli?
Ah, no, the axe Gandalf breaks is a smaller throwing axe Gimli previously used at Amon Hen, his main axes are a longer one bit, and the double bitted from Moria.
@@haakonhaugan7340 Okay, I've never scrutinized the weapons and gear too closely before but that's a good detail then. Makes sense he would know better than to throw a war axe.
@@CrustlessKingIn the tie-in movie games, Gimli uses smaller throwing axes for range and double bit for melee. I always wondered how many he had lol, I like to imagine he just whips a hatchet out of his beard whenever he's in need of one lol
@@CrustlessKing It's the sort of thing a worse movie would have gotten wrong!
What people don’t understand is how much the elves are sacrificing just being at Helms Deep. They could have just gone to the undying lands and not have to worry about Sauron. They are giving up paradise to fight in a battle facing certain death
Don’t elves actually not die in the lore?
@@jcheck1107 As far as I know their "essence" or soul does not die, but it can take many thousands of years before it is reborn. That process is only rarely accelerated in times of need for legendary heroes such as Glorfindel. Another exception to this rule is Elrond's blessed bloodline (due to the whole Beren and Lúthien history), where each descendant is able to choose between mortality and immortality, with Arwen choosing mortality in order to stay (and die) with Aragorn. That's my understanding, at least.
@@jcheck1107they arent even at helms deep in the lore
@@SassyCassie89 I don't actually remember that part of the book, did the elves not show up at all ? From what I recall, Haldir died defending Lothlorien it's basically the only thing that comes to my mind and I'm not even sure it's part of the second book, might be from the timeline thingy at the end.
I play a dwarf in our DnD group, and my movement speed is so slow I really empathize with Gimli in this movie. The battle is on the other side of the castle and I'm taking 3 turns to sprint over there yelling "I'M COMING, DON'T DIE FRIENDS!"
In the book, Gimli is in the caves defending the women and children at that point. Once the uruks got through the wall, the caves were completely open for them to go into and start slaughtering.
And to think, Filoni would come along and steal Gandalf's return from Tolkien for his golden child Ahsoka, without understanding the context of what actually happened in LOTR.
If you compiled a list of all the things Dave Filoni understands you'd be able to count the items on it on one hand.
@@lordofthepizzapie9319 100%
Filoni is good at directing animation.
Ahsoka should have been animated. Making it live-action was a waste. The sequence with Hayden was super cool but the rest was really mid…
@lordofthepizzapie9319 you could have a horrible fireworks injury and lose fingers and still count on one hand
I liked your digression on accents in fantasy, because I have been reading LotR to my kid at bedtime and it's been a fun exercise for my ability to impersonate (or, more accurately, caricature) certain accents and to depart from the default British accents in some places. The Rohirrim are cowboys, Sam is a good ol' sunthen boy, the elves are Finnish, and Denethor gets my Alex Jones impression.
Pfft. Yeah same. When I read GoT I decided that everyone was American, except for King Robert. He is Brian Blessed.
That is horrifying.
Now I can't help but think of Denethor screaming "You're dead as a doornail, and you deserve EVERYTHING that happens to you, trash!" in Jones' voice.
Every time I fly home from Japan I watch these extended additions. Man I love these
Great idea
Rewatched the first installment like 10 times already and your guys commentary is sublime. Cant wait
Always found it bizarre that Peter Jackson said that the "definitive edition" of Two Towers is the theatrical cut, and that the extended edition is just a "novelty for fans" who wants to see the extra scenes...
Better than Ridley Scott and Zack Snyder though, who love to use “Director’s Cut” as an excuse to make shitty theatrical scripts.
Yeah, it's the only film in the trilogy that is actually improved by the extended footage
@@johnbd9765
Uh, categorically fucking false, mate. Return of the King has Saruman's death scene now thanks to the Extended Edition.
That film is non-negotiably *improved* by the extended footage. As it was demonstrably proven to be worse *without* that footage when the films originally released in theaters and *everyone* was confused about what happened ro Saruman, and WHY the Palantir was just sitting around on the ground OUTSIDE of the Tower of Orthanc.
Boromir flashback & Saruman’s death are the only extended scenes I need, they should’ve been in the theatrical cuts.
I've never heard such a bad take@@johnbd9765
From what I remember, Haleth, the kid that Aragorn said "This is a good sword." to. His father was Hamas, the guy who asked for Gandalf staff. He died in the fight with the wargs. I feel like Aragorn would be aware of this, and as well as trying to encourage him for the battle to come. He's making him feel better about his father's death.
But... Do you condemn Hamas?
@@Firguy_the_Foot_Fetishist Not at all. He was a man just trying to do his job. I just thought this was an interesting side thing
@@MasterPhilbo I feel the same thing, too. About Hamas.
@@Firguy_the_Foot_Fetishist You can't fool us, you didn't type it in all caps. Hamas would condemn HAMAS for this capitalization trickery.
@@Firguy_the_Foot_Fetishist No, but I _do_ condone humus.
I’m here for this! I have a 9 yr drive today so listening to this will def help pass the time.
Be safe!!🙏
Nine years?! Where are you going?
Driving for nine years is crazy. Good luck bro.
@@TwistedTipples omg I’m an idiot 9 hrs lol
@@hardpack187 damn typo haha hrs! Not yrs lol
Last time I was this early, the mainstream media still compared Avengers Endgame’s final battle to the Helm’s Deep.
So the Endgame battle is terrible?
To Drinker’s point about shooting the Uruks with arrows after the Deeping wall is breached instead of charging, they needed to close the breach immediately. They will not have a great enough volume of arrow fire to accomplish what the press of bodies in melee would.
I feel the need to mention that Wormtongue only earned that name AFTER becoming Theoden King's advisier, and even then only with those who didn't trust him.
You'll also notice that he's the only Rohirrim with black hair. It's implied that he's a Dunlending, at least by blood, which contributed to his negative reputation.
Uhh Dunlending...?
@@HerohammerStudios the Wild Men of Dunland, the guys Saruman recruited. According to other parts of the Legendarium, all of Rohan belonged to the Dunlendings until Gondor conquered it, and later gave it to the Rohirrim as thanks for aid in another war, setting up an eternal rivalry between the two peoples on the plain.
This is great. After watching the EFAP mega mashup, I bought the extended editions. Thanks boys.
GANDALF!…..what is it Mr. Frodo?……Nothing, just a dream
Watching The Lord of the Rings always makes me feel better, works especially well when I'm going through some hard times. There are no other movies which fill me with hope the way LOTR does.
It's magical in a way, how much of an impact can movies have on us.
I have been watching a lot of The Lord of the Rings in the recent years.
I'm a massive metalhead, and Drinker's claim that LotR isn't metal is so baffling, I decided to go through my entire Spotify library to find every band that is either named after something Tolkien related or have an album that's Tolkien related (I won't make an effort to list specific songs because that would take too long, but some bands will be mentioned if I happen to see them and they have a song that qualifies). I'm also only going to include good bands, so no Amon Amarth. I'll also include the subgenre of metal they play to emphasize how widespread LotR is in metal. They are as follows:
1) Aran Angmar (black metal, name means "king of Angmar" in Sindarin)
2) Attacker (heavy/power metal, have an album called "Battle of Helm's Deep")
3) Blind Guardian (power metal, have an album called "Nightfall in Middle-earth")
4) Brocas Helm (epic heavy metal, have a song called "Helm's Deep")
5) Burzum (atmospheric black metal, name means "darkness" in Black Speech)
6) Cirith Ungol (doom metal)
7) Cromlech (epic doom metal, have a few songs like "For a Red Dawn," "Shadow and Flame," and "Turambar (Master of Doom/By Doom Mastered)")
8) Druadan Forest (epic black metal)
9) Dwarrowdelf (atmospheric black metal)
10) Eldamar (atmospheric black metal)
11) Emissary (heavy/power metal, have a song called "Tales of the Third Age")
12) Emyn Muil (epic black metal)
13) Firienholt (epic black metal, have a few songs like "Ashes of the Golden Hall" and "The Whispering Shadow")
14) Gorgoroth (black metal)
15) Graveland (black metal, have a song called "White Hand's Power")
16) Grimdor (black metal, have an album called "The Land of Shadow")
17) Isengard (black/folk metal)
18) Knight & Gallow (heavy metal, have a song called "Men of the West")
19) Megadeth (thrash metal, have a song called "This Day We Fight," and this song was used in the RotK EFAP Movies)
20) Moontowers (heavy metal, have a song called "Fear the White Hand")
21) Morgoth (death metal)
22) Morgul Blade (heavy metal)
23) Mumakil (grindcore)
24) Oathbringer (heavy/power metal, have songs such as "Moria" and "Morgoth")
25) Orodruin (doom metal)
26) Reverend Bizarre (doom metal, have a song called "Cirith Ungol")
27) Sauron (black/thrash metal)
28) Summoning (epic black metal, have lots of albums including "Minas Morgul" and "Dol Guldur")
29) Utumno (death metal)
This is by no means a comprehensive list. There are so many metal bands who write about LotR and fantasy as a whole, it'd be impossible to count them. And no Gary, Led Zeppelin isn't a metal band. They do like LotR tho
Edit: I've added more bands that I've either forgotten or discovered since I originally posted this to further prove the point and to share more recs
What a list. Screenshotted that for later, thank you.
Yeah, anyone who says fantasy isn't metal is the official king of retarded takes and has obviously never listened to metal a day in their life.
@@nothing4mepls973 Of course!
Might be the thematics of music. LOTR itself is more old school instruments
shoutout to Reverend Bizarre, Cirith Ungol is an amazing song
You know a film trilogy is good when you even rewatch the EFAP coverage of it multiple times.
On one hand I agree, but also incredibly crap films and shows are equally fun to watch lmao. The boba fett coverage is incredible viewing
1:17:04 come on Rags (and everyone for that matter), when counting Liv Tyler's on screen Dads how did you forget Bruce Willis?!
53:51 apparently, the flag came off completely by accident, and PJ thought it was so great he put it in. Just one of many instances of coincidental brilliance
That marsh is actually a parking lot if I remember right from the behind the scenes videos.
Aragorn's like "I'll never see 88 if I eat this swill."😂
I’m all here for the “Viggo broke his toe” meme. But either serious or as a joke there’s an irony to it all because 90% of people say did you know he broke his toe… but they are all factually incorrect. So, because it must be said (correctly), I am here to say…did you know in that shot that Viggo broke TWO TOES.
Get wrecked nerds.
19:12
The funniest part about Americans pulling off British, Scottish or more European accents, is that I originally discovered the Critical Drinker while preparing for my role as Angus from MacBeth. I was trying to find some dialect coaching videos on the matter, my accent ended up sounding like a bizarre blend of the Despot of Antrim and David Tennant, not what I would consider a true world accent but it worked for the theatre.
I just love that this movie was blessed by the gods with how many unintentional stuff happening that fit JUST right in.
Thanks for all this Mauler. Ive always loved lotr i could quote the entire first movie of the top of my head lol. I had one other friend who loved it as much as i did, life happened and we don’t talk anymore. It means a lot to someone like me (who doesn’t have anybody in real life to share their passion for these movies) to listen to you guys and your takes. ❤
Is this all you can conjure, Saruman?
Don't ever say this line if your day is going smoothly.
It's a delight to hear EFAP discuss a great movie. I love the trashing on garbage movies, but this....this I dig.
I know Tolkien insists that the war had not shaped what he had made, but so much of it touches on concepts only a man in that time could truly describe. It is cosmic luck we managed to get a trilogy as powerful as this.
I would gladly remove Jackson's trilogy from the face of the earth
@reek4062 so you think higher of the other media based on LOTR? Why not remove everything that isn't the hobbit because that came first. Burn the appendacies and the silmarilion. That is the kind of argument you are making here.
@@AimlessSavant Lol. Technically speaking The Tale of Tinuviel and The Fall of Gondolin came two decades before The Hobbit, though Tolkien didn't publish them.
I would imagine, no matter how hard you try and how careful you are, it’s very difficult to keep an experience like that out of your writing.
The number of times Sam saves the day
Sam is hands down my favorite character, even more so in the books. The chapter where he saves frodo in Minas Morgul is awesome. He casts the shadow of a mighty elf warrior while climbing the stairs because he is that caliber of hero
The Apex Hobbit & true hero of the story
EFAP crew need to do a southerner dub of the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.
That part had me laughing so much.
19:04 as a southern American how dare you appropriate my culture (this was hilarious 😂)
The Rohan pennant tearing off its pole was unintentional, but they kept filming. Where it lands among the party is obviously an intentional tie-in after the fact
The cultural influence for Rohan is the Anglo-Saxons, the people Tolkien spent much of his life studying.
Nobody ever seems to mention it about the second film but the end song is absolutely perfect for setting the tone when you leave the theater. It got completely overlooked by the overall score and the song from the final film but to me its just as good. I always think its criminal that nobody mentions it. Its such a perfect complimentary piece of art for the film and it really deserves recognition.
The perfect birthday present. Thank you all a massive amount.
Happy birthday, friend.
Happy birthday!!!
Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday
Idk if anyone else notices but when Theodon is having his "where is the horse and the rider" moment it sounds like there is a secondary audio of a whispered version of the script layered in
If you guys love Andy Serkis I highly recommend doing some sort of coverage on the Planet of the Apes movies, I’d argue he’s even more impressive as Caesar than as Gollum
2:33 Man drinker occasionally misses the mark some times, and this is the worst it’s ever been. Go to bed Drinker…
The thinking animation on Mulan cracks me up on every rewatch. Brb - rewinding for the ..... time.
Top 10 EFAP! Great having Wolf along as well. We all need more Wolf.
Rags- "oh ya well Naga daka thiya"
Lmao😂😂😂😂
When you mention that the world feels bigger than Frodo's journey, one of the things that comes to mind is how irrelevant that journey becomes in the grand scheme of things. Like, imagine if Helms Deep fell and Gondor was occupied. Maybe Frodo succeeds in his mission, but to what end? The World of Men is now toast. The Elves are probably gone by now, rowing to the East. Killing Sauron prevents a significant threat from returning, sure. But, it wasn't the be-all of the conflict in Middle Earth. It was one problem among many. That kind of scale puts a lot of the larger narrative into perspective.
Not to mention the fact that their stories converge at the end there, with Aragorn drawing Sauron's attention and clearing the path for Frodo. Without each succeding in their tasks up to this point, they could not have gone any further from there.
In the books, there's a substance, The Shadow. It's like an evil presence that comes with evil deeds and evil beings. Light breaks the Shadow, most of the "magic" that Gandalf uses is light shining.
Fantastic video thank you guys. I loved this so much
I had no idea this review was happening and coincidentally watched this film the same day you uploaded
Completely agree with the drinker. Havent read the books, but when I saw that scene, I kinda knew that he would come back in some form.
I hadn’t read the books when Fellowship came out but I called Gandalf coming back as soon as he fell off the bridge. I thought it would be more of a force ghost situation though.
Yeah I had read the books many times and it definitely felt like a spoiler in the movie. On the other hand, there's a lot of boring stuff happening in the story, basically just people running or walking. Another way they COULD have done it was to have some Rohan/Saruman scene at the start showing Theoden being corrupt and ordering Eomer away, saving the Balrog fight for a flashback later. It's still an epic opening to Two Towrs though.
I just thought he was gone forever. Seriously
I knew that too because the wizard *was on the poster*
It's too long back for me to remember, but I think I understood it to be a mere nightmare that is haunting Frodo, where he is imagining Gandalf's last seconds before his death, and I did not necessarily conclude anything about Gandalf returning.
The horn of EFAP's Two Towers coverage will sound in the deep, ONE. LAST. TIME.
wow i didnt realize how much material from the book is added in the extended versions, cool to see those scenes in film form!
Really am glad I watched the Every Frame a Painting video on F For Fake right before watching this films because I kept noticing how they jumped between plots. And like being able to tell when the jump was about to happen was really neat.
Ah, olden times, when 14 year-old boys fought wars, 12-year old girls were mothers,
and most people died in their 30s because of dental complications.
Most lived to 60. It's just the infant mortality rate really drags that number down
I love that they all just totally forget that Liv Tyler was in The Incredible Hulk
The incorporation of chat makes this truly transformative.
On the Gandalf Vs Balrog fight at the beginning: in Fellowship, when Frodo is running from Boromir with the ring on, when he sits on the seeing platform, a voice commands him to take off the ring that was Gandalf when he was fighting the Balrog up the mountain. So even the source was hinting that he survived.
"CG in the face; practical in the branches" is a new meme
Sorry Nerdrotic, Rohan does not give horses to Mordor. They refuse to sell them at any price and then orcs raid Rohan and steal horses.
This Salted Pork is especially good.
The discussion about Wormtongue is interesting, I see a parallel with Bilbo sparing Golumn. Both deserved death but neither HAD to be killed and in the end both had a role to play.
I was in my 20s when I saw Gandalf fight the Balrog. I hadn't opened LoTR in over a decade at that point and totally forgot what happened and I had no idea Gandalf was coming back until there were mutterings of a Wizard in the forest. I thought they played the whole fight as almost like a dream sequence anyway?
1:22:58 I really appreciate that wolf actually found out that someone made helms deep in halo infinite. someone even made other lands of middle earth like Minas Tirith
They should have played the flashback to Gandalf killing the Balrog DURRING the scene in which he returns. Because this entire segment is told by Gandalf himself anyway.
Dragonforce are a peak example of fantasy/nerdism and metal combining in an orchestra of audio references and spectacular fantasy opera. Highly recommended
The beginning of this video starts out with the near breaking of the EFAP fellowship Because of drinker's opinion on the balrog fight with gandolf
I think the sequencd at the start where gandalf fights the balrog as they fall could have been added to the part where he explained what happened to Aragorn and Co. Keep the opening scene up until where gandalf lets go and then cut to Frodo waking up from the nightmare.
This way we could keep both scenes and all we do is shuffle where it occurs. Win win, and no need to remove anything methinks.
In the movie dont the orcs have the white hand sigil? Unless im mistaken but if you wave a banner then you fight for that person so not so hard to put together.
23:35 Aww, no one noticed that Eomer's sword fell out. Karl Urban seemed to notice but finished the take.
This is AWESOME
Drinker: A lof of corpses.... just like your average Scottish wedding.
Me: Dies of laughter everytime 😂😂😂
Wth is with scottish weddings then?
That or everyone is so hammered they've all passed out
16:37 - no, they didn't! Doubly no when it comes what Garry from Nerdrodic said about Rohan giving tribute from horses to Mordor - so much for Garry being an expert 😉 If you remember what Tolkien wrote in a novel it would be obvious to you that horse - especially black one - were stolen from Rohan and that Rohirim would never willingly give them away to the Dark Lord, since they love their horses.
Drinker's point at the beginning is valid. Reading the books gave him insight. There is a balance that can be argued for explaining Gandalf's character before he falls from the bridge. Maybe explaining more that he's virtually a god.
His horn being cloven in two is confirmation that he died because he blew the final blast on it so powerfully that it was heard all the way in Gondor. It was at that moment that Denothor knew boromir had died. The broken horn washing up on shore was just confirmation, it was an ancient heirloom, so boromir would have defended it with his life. (This is all from the books of course, you guys didn't miss anything in the movie)
2:35 Chat was absolutely worth it but it blocks little moments like the Blind Guardian reference. Guess you can't have it all.
What they did differently they mentioned in the documentaries that taught me a trick in photoshop: transparent layering. Flesh is not opaque it’s transparent layers. Hold a flashlight to your hand to see
We need a GDELB with constant referencing to ladders.
In the book, Pippin and Merry keep their height. They become famous for (among other things) being rather tall for a Hobbit in the shire.
Also the scene is splicing two scenes in the book. The Water from Wllinghall as you see it. And Old Man Williow from the Old forest (Sam, Frodo, Pippin and Merry). Some of them get squished/swallowed, one hobbit starts a fire and starts cutting it, which causes the tree to become angrier. And then Tom Bombadil enters the scene and saves them.
PS: The flag tearing off was not planned, it was an accident, they then shot the scene where it falls down in front of the gate. Happy Accident.
Drinker needs to re fucking think his opinion about the opening sequence with gandalf and the balrog, Glad you boys put him in his place. Showing them fighting in no way guarantees gandalf is being RESURRECTED. there are so many ways to interpret that scene with frodo jolting up. Why wouldnt the assumption be he's dead because they fell for a long ass time and hit the water pretty hard..
Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than a dwarf and an elf competing for highest kill count. We don't deserve these movies.
Rohan is a great culture especially worthy for preserving and defended against the Orcs, because as the Drinker says (16:10): the majesty of their landscape, the way they go into battle, ... etc, but most of all IMHO, because they have the DNA that produces the beautyy that is in Eowyn (Theoden's neice).
I don't think the opening scene gives away that gandalf is alive because they frame it as a dream. I always saw it as frodo sort of inventing a story in his head to cope with the situation.
I never thought there was any indication that that first seen actually happened until you see him actually return in the forest
Almost cancelled Drinker for comparing Gandalf v Balrog, to Marvel
Wait, idk if I'm missing a bit or if everyone on this discord call is unaware that the New Line Cinema logo is train tracks.
I agree with Drinker's take on the premature reveal of Gandalfs survival
The Gandalf v Balrog scene was treat for those of us who already knew the story