This joke is already pretty out of date. DS 1911's were already trending towards the $1000 mark, and you could even buy a RIA for sub 1000 if you can forgive how heavy it is.
Side note, I damaged my ejector and extractor by over inserting 26 round mags in my Stacatto in the PMO class. I had an overnight label in my email two days after I sent the 1st email. The pistol is now on its way back from service 2 days after I sent it off. In total it will be an approximate 7 day turn around by the time it comes back. Top notch customer service. You get what you pay for. My issue was completely self-induced and could have happened on any 2011 platform. Buy a 2011 from a company that stands behind their product.
I am out on the net looking at reviews trying to pick my next 2011 and came across this video. NO way I thought I would watch an hour long video dissertation but man, once I started I watched every minute of it along with some side quests to figure out what MIM really was and a few manufacturers websites. (Infinity's is really weird BTW.) GREAT job educating a dude that has been shooting 40 years but is brand new to 19/2011s.
I'm 48 years old and I have been a gun enthusiast my entire life. That being said, when it comes to pistols, I adore the 1911 and I have had full custom 1911's from pretty much ALL of the custom builders, ranging in price from $1800-$7500 and believe me when I say that more expensive does not always mean "more better!" What I have found, is that the more expensive you go, the longer the break in period is, the more maintenance you have to do, and because of the super tight tolerances the less reliable a lot of them are going to be. In the end, what you have are bragging rights based on price alone but every bragging right you exercise is like throwing around a hollow brick! In the end of my custom 1911 journey (which lasted about 22 years) I now only own 1 custom 1911 which is my Springfield Professional Operator from the FBI contract made in 04. Excellent pistol that had to undergo extreme testing and development to meet the FBI standards. Fast for ward to June of 23.....I started to have my interest peeked by the new world of 2011's. Considered Night Hawk, loved Staccato's but the grips always felt a little small for my hands, looked at the other's in the high price range but then found Bul Armory and finally invested a couple of weeks and got a new SAS II 3.25 and a brand new SAS II TAC PRO with ported barrel and I'll be honest, I couldn't be happier! That little 3.25 is butter and is the smoothest shooting little 3.25" barrel that I have ever felt and bullet on top of bullet accurate in the 15 yards that I have shot it out to. The 4.25 TAC PRO is stupidly smooth shooting and definitely faster than me, and, bullet on top of bullet accurate too. Both guns have pretty tight tolerances because Bul Armory does quite a bit of hand fitting on these guns and both are very pleasurable to shoot because Bul Armory also does quite a bit of hand tuning on them too. The quality really is unbelievable at the price points in which they sell for. Reliability is also something I will mention because it is important for your investment to be combat reliable, which these Buls are. I'm not a man of limited financial means and can own any 2011 on this list but for my money one would have a hard time steering me away the Bul Armory offerings. A gun being made in Israel is not a bad thing, it's a good thing, why? Because Israel is always at war which means they know a lot about war and they take their weapons seriously because they use them and depend on them so often.
I think the buls are a way way better value than staccato. I have been watching reviews for the last month and finally decided on either an EDC or EDC pro. I think they are easily as good as a staccato but comes with more magazines more capacity and they don't charge 130 dollars for optics plates they just give you all of them included ❤ However staccato still makes a great gun and if bul doesn't restock the EDC I would eventually get impatient and buy a Staccato P 😅
The reason this channel is better than others, is that it is genuinely entertaining while tucking in some information. It’s not demoranch (thoughtless entertainment). It has been well balanced I think.
Yet Ruger uses casting and milling and makes some of the strongest revolvers that take eat thousands of rounds. Milled v cast forged or stamped all matters who does it!
Go hit a bucket of golf balls with a cast club, a MIM club, and a forged club. Then hit a mizuno club that is “grain flow forged” and you’ll realize how important the materials are.
I have felt that marshmallow puff of hitting a forged Mizuno club and it was oh so nice, only problem is I had never done it before so I absolutely crushed the distance and overshot the green (8 iron).
Hey thank you Chris. I like to think we are similar to Moses leading the children of Israel. Problem is Jake is a lefty ginger atheist soooooo we might be going to hell 😂
I don't if you mentioned it later because I'm currently not finished watching, but I wanted to add that the more precise a part is required to be, the greater the possibility for waist which drives up cost. The more strict the QC, the more parts are rejected.
I thought this was absolutely great. The comparison with watches is very apt. I’m a huge Atlas guy and it works for me extremely well, but I can certainly understand people who don’t feel that way. Your point on it being a super high-end production gun is legitimate. The Erebus, the Hyperion, Athena, and Artemis are all basically the same gun with some variations. I will tell you that my night hawk fire hawk didn’t really move me, but I can’t argue with the quality of the firearm. They are now moving into the more modern versions. Since I’ve been a high-end watch collector for decades, the only comment I would make is that the more bespoke the watch the harder it is to work on and the longer it will be gone. I have gotten to the point where I’m OK with some thing that runs amazingly well and will be easy to service. Sending infinity back and it’s going to be gone for a really long time. That’s also true with nighthawk. I know this from personal experience. Nice job.
Love my Staccato P. As someone who is used to Glock, Sig and sub 1000 dollar 1911s, getting the staccato has opened my eyes to a different level of refinement even though it’s considered “entry level” in its field.
It would be interesting to see where a Wilson Combat “double stack 1911” would fall within this broad range of pistol price and quality. It seems that their SF (solid frame) series, especially their long slide SFX9, would compare well within the mid-range category in terms of features, price and build quality.
I have an EDC X9 for my 'do everything gun' (carry, train, compete). I really like it. One thing especially is G10 grips. I think Wilson's standard set are not aggressive enough, but VZ makes a set that feel great. I much prefer them to anything polymer that I've found on a 2011. (I do like the S&W texture)
Good video and good overview of the field. I understand what you are saying about the Atlas. I am no stranger to 2011s as I own a few Staccatos, Atlas and SVIs, but I think you need to approach Atlas and their ethos a little different from other guns. They are competition guns first. They are not duty, range toys, BBQ guns, etc.. It's like saying this top fuel drag car has really rough suspension.. Yeah, it does, because it a race car.. some of those creature comforts are not a first priority. And yes it is expensive, and so are top fuel drag cars. The 'snappy' recoil is for a quick and consistent return to zero. This is a competition gun. The faster your sights return back to zero, the sooner you are shooting points. The name of the USPSA/3 gun game is getting as many points as possible, as fast as possible. As for your mag exploding, it sounds like your base pad keeper pin was not in place. The springs have more power/tension because since the slide is cycling faster, you need to push that round up quicker for the slide to strip it out of the mag. Lastly on the safety portion, yes, ride the safety. This is a competition gun. The safety is designed as a leverage point. Atlas, along with many other companies, make shielded safeties if you are concerned your hand will impede the slide movement. Oh yeah, and Atlas is the only company that makes a left handed grip, and matching left handed mag release for the 2011. Something you might want to consider.
It's great that you guys toured the SVI shop. I suggest you tour the Atlas shop if they could accommodate you. Would be interested in hearing your comparison between the two. Like mentioned about SVI and the custom SN, very few shops make their own frames. Many buy from other groups (PT, L10, STI, etc).. You will find that Atlas cuts their own frames with some tweaks. No custom SNs though. I would have liked that option as a cherry on top.
Yea I hear what you’re saying. But my infinity is the same style pistol and the atlas guns in recently shot. And they shoot nothing alike. Snappy is snappy and I’m not sure I’m a believer of the return to zero claim. It simply doesn’t wow me
@@1911syndicate I can relate to your comment. Nothing shoots better than my SVIs. Brandon and the team know how to build a great gun. SVI is a very high bar to clear 😂
@@1911syndicate u complaining about atlas price but buying infinity acting u r in a cod video game...infinity shoots exacts same quit overhyping lmao...u r the guy to compare staccatos to atlas lmao...delete this video
Tonight on 1911 Syndicate; Crispy borrows a Nintendo for the first time, All double stack 1911's and 2011's look like Officer Models in Chris' hands, and Jake has gone into more Rabbit Holes, than pleasure holes.....
Law of diminishing return… I think the sweet spot is quality materials (forge/ billet) at a production level is the go too. Once you go full custom the cost to value/quality doesn’t necessarily equate “better” performance or reliability.
@@ShellShock794idk about that one I think staccato is the best price point for performance balance because a staccato doesn't have problems and prodigys do not have a good track record
Maybe. I don't own a 5k+ 1911/2011. I do own 4k Alchemy and a Staccato P. The Alchemy is better in everyway to include reliability. The staccato will choke on some ammo especially when it gets hot and dirty. The Alchemy Quantico has never had a hiccup not once. I've owned several dan wessons as well and none of them were as reliable as either the staccato or the Alchemy
For what it's worth, got a RI Double Stack 1911, base model. Works just fine, but after 2 years....prefer single stack. My 1911, Dad's GI 1911A1 and trigger time on WC. The RI DS will remain but if do over...single stack n Xtra mags. Do like it, we call it the beast. It works great
The production on these videos is just as outstanding as the guns. That being said I appreciate what you do and you have definitely helped me pick which 2011 I want… all of them haha
So nice already listened to the first few minutes/intro 4 times. Love the music, choice of words , “for the birds”, the pauses. Bravo, more of this scripting please.
The budget “hybrid 2011” im genuinely interested in is the stealth arms platypus… glock 17 mags, and their site as a lot of options for that pistol, not including all of the cerakote options on all of the individual parts, all for a starting price of $1400… I haven’t seen much on it, but if it’s reliable and shoots well it would be the best bang for your buck, in the budget 2011 scene, especially if you already run something that takes glock mags
I came to the comment section just to mention this pistol. And I really want one, and I really can’t wait for them to start offering them with a bull barrel.
@@madeintexas1213 im not sure if bushing barrels are offered in a full bull configuation. but i like bull barrels because they offer a little more weight so it CAN help with recoil. and i am a fan of bull barrels on all platforms just for the rigidity
I know the prodigy got a lot of hate when it was first released but I think SA fixed a lot of the initial issues. My prodigy runs perfect and I have no issues with fit/finish or cycle of operation. I do get the long term reliability issues with MIM parts but you can always switch those parts out with DP, EGW, Infinity or Sti parts and still be well under most high end 2011’s. I am surprised you didn’t talk about TTI or Rock Island.
I got a prodigy 5 inch not long ago. The gun is a beast, runs great, shoots better than I can shoot at my age. All in all I believe this gun is going to put a dig dent into these High and Super High dollar guns in the long run. I always wait before I jump on or in Bandwagon. Glade I waited I got it at a better price by waiting.
I picked up the Prodigy 5" this week...freakin love it! SA marketing says they are Forged...not sure if there are some parts that may be MIM or Cast?? but sounds like the Frame and slide are at least forged.
Springfield Prodigy, little time polishing one and they are dead nuts accurate and reliable, probably more reliable than some of the $2500 to $5000 2011’s. I have an old double stack PARA and it is hard to beat plus ROCK ISLAND makes one hell of a solid frame double stack gun. Now I do like my two Staccato guns but their price is where I draw the line.
Christmas week 1993 I bought a Para Ordnance P12-45 made in Canada. I still own it & has been a great gun. You can feed it any kind of ammo with no issues whatsoever .
Great video, Staccato is used by over 750 agencies and NOT the border patrol, however, Yes, the Marshalls, Texas Rangers, LAPD Swat and many more do use the Staccato P as their base duty weapon. Oh and also, LVPD.
my personal pick is a rock island pro match. got mine for $1030 out the door, and so far the only downside to the gun is not having an optics cut, otherwise, it runs like a champ and well worth the money
For the raw material section, I can guarantee you that forged is stronger than a raw cut billet part, for forging you basically take a billet piece of metal and force that into the rough shape that the end piece is supposed to be, then after that step it will also be precision machined into the designed part. Billet skips the forging step and goes straight into the machining from the factory metal billet you receive, that's also where the name comes from. Why is it stronger? because the forging forces the metal grid/grain structure to follow the shape you want and doesn't seperate the inner metal bonds.
thanks for the knowledge. He makes great videos but no one can be right all the time. He said billet is stronger and I was like wait that doesn't sound right but I didn't have the background to fully understand why. I think mim is supposed to me stronger than cast also as its voids are more micro in structure? so wouldn't it be cast, mim, billet and forged?
Rounded trigger guards are ok if hands are small/medium or shooting old-school one-handed.. But squared triggered guards are better at keeping modern support hand grip from slipping/sliding forward, especially with L/XL hands.
As for me I will stick with my Prodigy and Rock Island. I can get a Rock Island Dubble stack for less than a 1/3 of the price of some of these guns. It's a heavier gun by being all steel but runs great and you don't have to take out a 2nd mortgage. The Prodigy will put a dent in these high and super high dollars guns in the long run IMO. I can see it starting now as many want a good Dubble stack but not having to break the bank and taking out a 2nd mortgage for a gun and a few mags.
I've seen a couple Rock Islands that were turned into competition guns, and they held their own with the higher priced guns. Right there with the "entry level" base Staccatos that were upgraded for competition.
I'm hoping the industry starts moving towards fat 1911s. It kind of seems like everybody is slowly getting burnt out on polymer striker fired pistols in the last two years or so. There's nothing new anymore but 2011/DS 1911s are constantly coming out with new things. I'd like to see some good $600 double stacks in a couple years.
Yup, absolutely correct. Anyone that has enuff trigger time an has experienced buyers remorse too many times with recent quality going severely down will be a smart move. Problom? Most of us can't afford those frigging prices. Hell there's currently no reason as of now why ammo alone is still high, once they figured out we will pay that price they keep it there
I love the Mario music, we just got in the Tisas Knightstalker. $960, threaded barrel, 17 rd checkmate staccato pattern mags, red dot cut, window cuts and front and rear serrations, magwell, amazing trigger, rail, night sights, in my opinion it’s leaps and bounds above the prodigy in fit and finish, build quality, it’s has a silky smooth action compared to the prodigy’s kinda rough and feels like it’s binding up, the trigger is very good.
Thought I was the only one with the atlas that thought like that. I’ve wanted it forever and once I got it and took it to the range it’s like meh. Didn’t impress me over some other guns. Going to give it a little more time before I decide to sell it but yeah checked all the boxes also.
You are missing an even lower priced tier with the para clones from RIA. If you shop around you can be out the door with a double stack 1911 for under $1k. I have one and really like it. The only real upgrade that I really want on it is a rds cut.
I have the Bul SASii Ultra and it’s all the gun any normal average shooter would want. Amazing. The light weight when paired with the Underwood Xdefense ammo is addictive.
Thank you for confirming that the gun is as great as it looks. I have liked that great looking gun from the first video I saw it in! Congrats to you for having one!
I second the Bul SAS II. I have the non comped model and it is truly an awesome flat shooting pistol. I have a Staccato P as well and it’s a great pistol but Bul Armory is putting some kind of voodoo in their ultralights to make them run like heavier steel framed guns.
I'm just going to say thanks & this was a good video. Cause honestly otherwise I'm going to write an essay both on this topic and picking apart things in this video that weren't entirely accurate. 2 things to remember though people. More expensive doesn't always mean better & billet isn't always better than forged.
I agree with your statement on Atlas guns…. They are incredible however I do not feel a $3000 difference when shooting them vrs a staccato. My staccato xl is a great gun. I like nightforce also.. I dont like high maintenance…
I was at my brothers for 4th of july, shot my Staccato C2 next to his Atlas athena, the price difference was not there, nicest pistol in terms of racking the slide / grip and everything but not 2-3x price better.. than again.. probably same could be said for a Glock / SIG or even a BUL compared to Staccato.. is Staccato 2-3-4x better? naw.
I’m in the final 6 weeks of my year and a half wait for my Wilson combat 1911. I’m really trying my best to be patient but seeing all these nice guns is hurting me! I need mine!
Excellent, informative video. Most of us that are not doing competitive shooting are really not going to get the use out of the step up in quality, so the comparison to luxury watches is apt. Now we just need a video for the few options out for double stack 1911 in .45ACP, from the budget friendly RIA Tac Ultra FSHC, to the Remington R1 enhanced, Cosaint customs out of North Carolina, to the far more expensive options.
I doubt they’ll go that low in price comparison. People like to gate keep and keep the mass public from thinking they can attain a quality firearm and compete with the pretentious big spenders firearms and still have equal outcomes. The rich HATE IT when poor people have things as good as them but paid drastically less. Then they don’t get their rich boy pedestal feeling 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡
After over a decade of owning and shooting guns I finally got into the 1911 platform about a year ago. I didn't get anything super crazy, just a decent mid range ($1,200) 1911 and I must say that they honestly live up to the hype in my opinion. Aside from the capacity everything about a 1911 just feels so damn good mechanically, really nothing else quite like it. Now I'm thinking about getting a 2011 in the next year or so to get that extra capacity, this video definitely helped me out. Thanks!
I picked up a 4.25 Prodigy on sale and love shooting it, even if it’s entry level piece “for the poors”. I do have a wilson sfx9 in 5” which I love but that 2011 just fits my bigger hand better.
Infinity is the "Bugatti" of the 2011 world, STI/SVI (Tripp and Strayer) created the 2011 platform. There are also niche competition brands like Lim Cat or Accuracy X but SVI in a league of their own. Master gunsmith's can make you a 2011 too, like Joe Chambers but SVI can create whatever you can dream up because they machine everything in house.
Your videos convinced me I need a 2011 or two. I have a 1945 Remington Rand and a 1918 Colt Model of 1911, but no 2011s. Ive been going back and forth between the Bul SAS II 4.25 and the Staccato P, and then also the Staccato XC and Nighthawk Sandhawk. Cant wait for this video.
Bul punches way above their price class. But the 4.25 is a very basic gun. The comp/pro models are a lot more enjoyable. Or get a SL version if you are into competition. And the magazines are both more affordable, more reliable and also higher capacity than the STI type magazines. Especially if you get the new Mec-Gar 20 rounders with slide hold open followers. If your first 2011 is a BUL, so will all of the others be.
@@Chrisblau Video is excellent! Well worth my time as a viewer. I actually watched this with a buddy of mine who knows nothing about the lore the 1911 or 2011 and I think I converted him the cult. Also you guys convinced me to go for a Staccato P as my first 2011 and reaffirmed my desire for a Nighthawk Sandhawk. 10/10 content as always.
@@texasranger24 I really like what the BUL has to offer. That high round capacity almost tipped the scales for me. What it also ultimately came down to is I want to support an American based company spending that much money. After I get a Staccato P, I might look into getting a BUL SAS II SAW because it looks like a cool fun 2011 style pistol.
@@TheRealJeff984 Jeff you are one of the Real ones (see what i did there) appreciate you sharing with a buddy and watching the content. also we are happy to help you spend money an happy you snagged a Staccato P dude
With higher end watches you are also paying a premium for name. The Grand Seiko is one of if not the most accurate mechanical movement watch and is hand crafted, yet typically runs less than Swiss premium brand name watches. Relating the statement above to 2011 guns is simply you are paying extra for a perceived benefit that you typically cannot tell when using an expensive 2011 in competitions. I can get a Prodigy, Canik SFX, Walter Q5 or a CZ shadow 2 or P10 do some mild mods and know my gun shoots just as well. Felt recoil is a matter of personal perception and ammo choice. But on a side note we are all free to buy what we want.
So yesterday I shot XC with is a sure fire turbo(wlm) then immediately shot my 5 inch Infinity with a short dust cover none ported or none comped and would you believe it my Infinity had the same perceive recoil impulse as the comped xc then I shot the atlas erbus with a turbo light and gas’s pedal and that thing smoked the other two. I can only imagine what comped/ported infinity combo feels like
@ Wilson Lei Yea it’s not mandatory but can’t really say the 1911/2011 platform has been fully tested without at least diving into the Bob Marvel standard of the platform. Chambers is the best known example but there’s been a few to branch off from his shop who are doing similar work. For that old school approach to workmanship the Marvel build philosophy is probably the best. Newer processes in machining have sped up the manufacturing, some have pretty good tolerances, hard to beat Marvels though.
@@marcusjohnson5839 True. Also, Rob S. at Alchemy builds a true hard fit gun. Tops in accuracy. His mentor in building hard fit 1911's was gained with His time a t Les Baer Customs. Now if Les would just build a 2011! Not holding my breath for that to happen. GRRRR! KnifeMaker
Never was a fan of polymer guns,yes they are good but not my thing. Started with 1911 at 8 years old ,started competitive shooting at 12 . In all the conceivable calibers i have owned and shit them. Started on 2011 from STI over 15 years ago ,you know before they were cool. My limited gun was my carry gun for a long time and it amazed me how the non competitive shooting world most shooters never knew these guns existed. Im really glad there is a resurgence in the single action pistols derived from John Brownings original design. The new stealth arms platypus has really caught my attention and it was a great experience shooting one of my friends. 45 acp is still best haha them 10mm its the best mm
Good overview, will be interested to see the Nighthawk review. Regarding Atlas ... how to put this ... I see a lot less "snap" in clips of Chris shooting the Atlas than I do in clips of Jake shooting the Atlas. Yes, Chris may be a yeti, but I think he also has better grip and recoil management ...
It must have something to do with how he is holding the pistol. Go back and watch where his trigger finger is and how far it has to angle downward to pull the trigger.
Yeah I second that. Chris I think had better grip fundamentals. Also, yes you’re definitely supposed to ride the safety on an Atlas. It’s a feature not a bug. Designed for forcing superior grip fundamentals. If you don’t you’ll run into the issues he experienced. Looks like a training and personal preference issue rather than a gun issue.
Billet is only higher end than forging in terms of precision of the finished dimensions which can be matched by forging then machining to final specs. Billet does not add strength to the part the way forging does. Bullet simply means it was machines straight from a billet of metal which is a piece of metal stock which was formed by continuous casting usually. Forged parts will be made originally from an ingot which was a lump of metal cast then forged into a rectangular block for further working. At least that’s my understanding of it. Forging can’t make shitty material good, but it can add strength whereas billet is what it is. Billet parts are almost always machined from a pretty high quality piece of metal stock though. I would imagine that for slides and frames the final fit and finish from a billet machined part is worth more than the added strength from a forged part. My understanding of a forged part like say a 1911 frame is that they would start with an ingot, forge it into the rough shape of the frame and then machine away excess, followed by final heat treat once machine work is done. Again, I’m not a metallurgist or a pro in the field but I am interested in metal science to some extent. Anyone who knows more than me feel free to jump in here and correct any mistakes.
@@roberthutchinson2856 This has always been my understanding. I feel it’s more correct to think of forging not strictly as a type of material but rather a process of how the material or part was made. I have always been informed from the world of cars that if all things like metal chemistry are equal a forged part made of the same material or material of similar quality from a billet; the forged part will be more expensive due to the increased production time and effort but will also have added strength from the forging process. I don’t think that extra strength is really needed for a 1911 slide and frame when the alternative would be premium quality billet steel.
@@JG54206 thats correct it really isnt needed in a ton of parts. Heck mim works in a lot of places as well if designed properly. The only slide i can think of that uses forgings is the hk usp line.
Very well said You answered about every question regarding the intelligent way to buy a 2011. I would have bought a Staccato and, yes, spent $1500 to upgrade it. Thanks guys
4:35 "...yeah, or be cool and learn some stuff." Literally come back here once a week to hear that gem 😂. Literally gonna get that line tattooed on me.
Only my second video of this channel, but im really enjoying these opinions and particular viewpoint. My families personal combat experience tells me strikerfired sidearms are best for combat, but hammerfired has a tried and true place for almost any scenario.
Dude ya'll are freaking awesome. Ya'lls editor had some fun with this one. Super dope, top video quality, cools ass dudes, dope ass takes and 34,000 hurt my soul damn. Any chance either of you get around to the new kimber, eaa or stealth arms double stacks?
@@1911syndicate I'm on week 5 of my order, when I did it was a 6 week lead time so I'll be getting mine soon. I might be open to letting you guys take a look at it if you wanted for a few weeks, I know they are hard to get hands on with at the moment.
Typically required a lot of work to get tuned for competition use. I sold mine long ago, but once I got it up and running like a sewing machine, it was great.
Im one of those guys that drive you crazy with Staccato upgrades. I didn't have 4.5k to drop on a Fowler at one time though. Also, I upgraded the 2019 P which has a full length dust cover and is no longer made so it has some pretty decent collectors value. If I ever want to jump into the next level of refinement i should have no problem selling to upgrade or trade into that "sweet spot" as you call it. I love your content guys. Keep up the great videos.
Great video fellas as usual. Been trying to fight for the platform for decades. Received all the standard excuses as usual, too heavy, minimal capacity, old gun/old man, etc,etc. My favorite guns of all time since childhood were 1911's. Best handling and feeling gun in the hand (IMO) over all the guns I've been fortunate to carry and/or to shoot. I've carried Glock for 30+ years for duty/swat/etc but my favorite guns are the 1911 platform or its offspring. Luckily Staccato pushed their line to a carry/duty line and the platform has finally took off again and is going strong. 2011's are the new AR's. Everyone is making or trying to make one nowadays. It's funny that everyone acts like these are the new hotness when they've been making these in the competitive realm for decades. Video explains it perfectly, chess vs checkers, and there are varying qualities between the starter 2011's through the high end models. You can't purchase performance but you can purchase quality, don't forget as well, its the Indian not the Bow.
Same, I've wanted an STI since I was a kid (still too poor to justify it) and it's been hilariously gratifying to see the same people who told me that it was ridiculous to carry a competition gun for duty use change their tune to telling me how many LE agencies issue them 😂
@@shinobi-no-bueno Exactly. I remember when we'd use them in a class and get told how "we couldn't wake up and smell the new millennium". I even have some very good lifelong friends in the instruction and teaching professions who talked down the platform and its age and design which wasn't as advanced as what we have available now. Funny, shove a glock mag mag up a 1911's ass and now it's all new and they're using them. Now, speaking so highly of them and how much better they are than the plastic fantastics. Should've listened to us old guys, we told you they are solid, phenomenally accurate firearms with a great trigger decades ago. I've know it for 45-46 years. You also hear, but this is a 9 not a 45. Well some of us can shoot the 45 very well and aren't undegunned due to capacity like the rest of you, I know how to reload very fast and efficiently. They do make 9mm single stacks but it's funny they never realized or recognized those, I guess capacity was an issue with them as well. All capacity gives you is more capacity, it doesn't get you fundamentals, accuracy, weps handling skills, etc, etc. Sometimes the old guys were right, you just can't tell some folks, they've gotta learn at their pace. LMAO
Just got a Prodigy 5” to see if it’s actually worth anything or not. Regardless, I want the BUL SAS II TAC 4.25” some kind of bad. All of these are great, but if you suck at shooting, at least you have a dope gun lmao. Love your stuff guys.
I always thought Staccato's were crazy expensive until I went down the rabbit hole of 2011's like this video lol can't wait to buy the new Staccato C this summer.
Nice video. The interesting thing as you mentioned is the number of new entrants into this space recently, especially at the entry level, and I do think we have Staccato to thank for that. I'm waiting on my 1st "2011" from Stealth Arms, but having shot a few previously, know it won't be my last. I was just very tempted by the G17 mag compatibility as a starting point, as the proprietary mags had been the main sticking point for me in the past.
I have a host of guns from IWI Masada to an Infiniti. My Infiniti is a show pony, But I love my Bul Armory SAS II PRO and my Hayes. MIM parts are good when the gun is new. However, tolerances and operational integrity rapidly decline with use. An important example would be the ignition system.
The orchestrated Mario Bros theme song was the key to this whole production.
Well played, sirs.
Definitely!!!
Haha glad a people picked up on the vibe
1000%
@@1911syndicate and the matching Mario bros font on the prices!👌
I thought it was a bit of an odd choice that seemed out of place, personally. To each their own, I suppose.
$34,000? So you're only going over two guns?
Hahaha
@@chitterlingsrtastyew don’t talk about them , they’re just a gay a staccatos.
1 and a backup mag actually 🤷♂️ Lol
This joke is already pretty out of date. DS 1911's were already trending towards the $1000 mark, and you could even buy a RIA for sub 1000 if you can forgive how heavy it is.
@@CA.0verview aren't all 2011 owners gay anyways?
Been waiting for years for an affordable double stack 1911. Finally saying screw it and get the Staccato 🤷♂
That’s the right move.
U won't regret it mine runs like a dream👍👍
Worth every penny. I own a C2 and the P. Both are flawless.
Got my XL Staccato. Full Size ultimate 4.5
Anything else is a waste
Side note, I damaged my ejector and extractor by over inserting 26 round mags in my Stacatto in the PMO class. I had an overnight label in my email two days after I sent the 1st email. The pistol is now on its way back from service 2 days after I sent it off. In total it will be an approximate 7 day turn around by the time it comes back. Top notch customer service. You get what you pay for. My issue was completely self-induced and could have happened on any 2011 platform. Buy a 2011 from a company that stands behind their product.
I am out on the net looking at reviews trying to pick my next 2011 and came across this video. NO way I thought I would watch an hour long video dissertation but man, once I started I watched every minute of it along with some side quests to figure out what MIM really was and a few manufacturers websites. (Infinity's is really weird BTW.) GREAT job educating a dude that has been shooting 40 years but is brand new to 19/2011s.
Haha appreciate that! Glad you enjoyed it
I'm 48 years old and I have been a gun enthusiast my entire life. That being said, when it comes to pistols, I adore the 1911 and I have had full custom 1911's from pretty much ALL of the custom builders, ranging in price from $1800-$7500 and believe me when I say that more expensive does not always mean "more better!" What I have found, is that the more expensive you go, the longer the break in period is, the more maintenance you have to do, and because of the super tight tolerances the less reliable a lot of them are going to be. In the end, what you have are bragging rights based on price alone but every bragging right you exercise is like throwing around a hollow brick! In the end of my custom 1911 journey (which lasted about 22 years) I now only own 1 custom 1911 which is my Springfield Professional Operator from the FBI contract made in 04. Excellent pistol that had to undergo extreme testing and development to meet the FBI standards.
Fast for ward to June of 23.....I started to have my interest peeked by the new world of 2011's. Considered Night Hawk, loved Staccato's but the grips always felt a little small for my hands, looked at the other's in the high price range but then found Bul Armory and finally invested a couple of weeks and got a new SAS II 3.25 and a brand new SAS II TAC PRO with ported barrel and I'll be honest, I couldn't be happier! That little 3.25 is butter and is the smoothest shooting little 3.25" barrel that I have ever felt and bullet on top of bullet accurate in the 15 yards that I have shot it out to. The 4.25 TAC PRO is stupidly smooth shooting and definitely faster than me, and, bullet on top of bullet accurate too. Both guns have pretty tight tolerances because Bul Armory does quite a bit of hand fitting on these guns and both are very pleasurable to shoot because Bul Armory also does quite a bit of hand tuning on them too. The quality really is unbelievable at the price points in which they sell for. Reliability is also something I will mention because it is important for your investment to be combat reliable, which these Buls are.
I'm not a man of limited financial means and can own any 2011 on this list but for my money one would have a hard time steering me away the Bul Armory offerings. A gun being made in Israel is not a bad thing, it's a good thing, why? Because Israel is always at war which means they know a lot about war and they take their weapons seriously because they use them and depend on them so often.
I think the buls are a way way better value than staccato. I have been watching reviews for the last month and finally decided on either an EDC or EDC pro. I think they are easily as good as a staccato but comes with more magazines more capacity and they don't charge 130 dollars for optics plates they just give you all of them included ❤ However staccato still makes a great gun and if bul doesn't restock the EDC I would eventually get impatient and buy a Staccato P 😅
The reason this channel is better than others, is that it is genuinely entertaining while tucking in some information. It’s not demoranch (thoughtless entertainment). It has been well balanced I think.
That’s exactly what we want to come across man thank you for the kind words. 👊🏼👊🏼
Appreciate it
for metallurgy, forging is always better than milling billet because of grain pattern as well as overall weight
Yet Ruger uses casting and milling and makes some of the strongest revolvers that take eat thousands of rounds. Milled v cast forged or stamped all matters who does it!
Go hit a bucket of golf balls with a cast club, a MIM club, and a forged club. Then hit a mizuno club that is “grain flow forged” and you’ll realize how important the materials are.
I like that comment
I have felt that marshmallow puff of hitting a forged Mizuno club and it was oh so nice, only problem is I had never done it before so I absolutely crushed the distance and overshot the green (8 iron).
dont golf but i dig the comment as so does jake great analogy dude
Nicely said 👍👍
As a mizuno mp32 lover, you sir are correct.
Jake and Chris guiding us through the desert of average firearms to the promised land. Excellent information and hardware as always, gents. Cheers! 🇺🇸
Hey thank you Chris. I like to think we are similar to Moses leading the children of Israel. Problem is Jake is a lefty ginger atheist soooooo we might be going to hell 😂
I don't if you mentioned it later because I'm currently not finished watching, but I wanted to add that the more precise a part is required to be, the greater the possibility for waist which drives up cost. The more strict the QC, the more parts are rejected.
True
Nighthawk sandhawk is probably one of the coolest semi auto pistols ive ever seen...
I thought this was absolutely great. The comparison with watches is very apt. I’m a huge Atlas guy and it works for me extremely well, but I can certainly understand people who don’t feel that way. Your point on it being a super high-end production gun is legitimate. The Erebus, the Hyperion, Athena, and Artemis are all basically the same gun with some variations. I will tell you that my night hawk fire hawk didn’t really move me, but I can’t argue with the quality of the firearm. They are now moving into the more modern versions.
Since I’ve been a high-end watch collector for decades, the only comment I would make is that the more bespoke the watch the harder it is to work on and the longer it will be gone. I have gotten to the point where I’m OK with some thing that runs amazingly well and will be easy to service. Sending infinity back and it’s going to be gone for a really long time. That’s also true with nighthawk. I know this from personal experience.
Nice job.
Cabot Guns
This is the best video introduction in the entire history of video going back to and including silent film.
Hahahaha classic
Love my Staccato P. As someone who is used to Glock, Sig and sub 1000 dollar 1911s, getting the staccato has opened my eyes to a different level of refinement even though it’s considered “entry level” in its field.
I have a Staccato XC and absolutely love it. It’s definitely my favorite gun to shoot.
It would be interesting to see where a Wilson Combat “double stack 1911” would fall within this broad range of pistol price and quality. It seems that their SF (solid frame) series, especially their long slide SFX9, would compare well within the mid-range category in terms of features, price and build quality.
Hey Charles, you can literally fill the custom order form and make it yourself. Just beware of the 8-weeks lead
@@sameullam An 8 week wait is nothing for a fully custom gun
The Wilson’s are good, but I prefer Staccato. I’ve shot both. Staccato is unbeatable for the money.
I have an EDC X9 for my 'do everything gun' (carry, train, compete). I really like it. One thing especially is G10 grips. I think Wilson's standard set are not aggressive enough, but VZ makes a set that feel great. I much prefer them to anything polymer that I've found on a 2011. (I do like the S&W texture)
SFX all aluminum is money for carry gun! Can’t believe not a word on WC…
Good video and good overview of the field.
I understand what you are saying about the Atlas. I am no stranger to 2011s as I own a few Staccatos, Atlas and SVIs, but I think you need to approach Atlas and their ethos a little different from other guns. They are competition guns first. They are not duty, range toys, BBQ guns, etc.. It's like saying this top fuel drag car has really rough suspension.. Yeah, it does, because it a race car.. some of those creature comforts are not a first priority. And yes it is expensive, and so are top fuel drag cars.
The 'snappy' recoil is for a quick and consistent return to zero. This is a competition gun. The faster your sights return back to zero, the sooner you are shooting points. The name of the USPSA/3 gun game is getting as many points as possible, as fast as possible.
As for your mag exploding, it sounds like your base pad keeper pin was not in place. The springs have more power/tension because since the slide is cycling faster, you need to push that round up quicker for the slide to strip it out of the mag.
Lastly on the safety portion, yes, ride the safety. This is a competition gun. The safety is designed as a leverage point. Atlas, along with many other companies, make shielded safeties if you are concerned your hand will impede the slide movement.
Oh yeah, and Atlas is the only company that makes a left handed grip, and matching left handed mag release for the 2011. Something you might want to consider.
It's great that you guys toured the SVI shop. I suggest you tour the Atlas shop if they could accommodate you. Would be interested in hearing your comparison between the two.
Like mentioned about SVI and the custom SN, very few shops make their own frames. Many buy from other groups (PT, L10, STI, etc).. You will find that Atlas cuts their own frames with some tweaks. No custom SNs though. I would have liked that option as a cherry on top.
Yea I hear what you’re saying. But my infinity is the same style pistol and the atlas guns in recently shot. And they shoot nothing alike. Snappy is snappy and I’m not sure I’m a believer of the return to zero claim. It simply doesn’t wow me
@@1911syndicate I can relate to your comment. Nothing shoots better than my SVIs. Brandon and the team know how to build a great gun. SVI is a very high bar to clear 😂
@@1911syndicate u complaining about atlas price but buying infinity acting u r in a cod video game...infinity shoots exacts same quit overhyping lmao...u r the guy to compare staccatos to atlas lmao...delete this video
@madedits2228 the way you convey your "thought" tells me that you likely do not own any of these guns. Go finish high school.
I have the Atlas Athena and it is hands down the Best 2011 I have seen or shot !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tonight on 1911 Syndicate; Crispy borrows a Nintendo for the first time, All double stack 1911's and 2011's look like Officer Models in Chris' hands, and Jake has gone into more Rabbit Holes, than pleasure holes.....
I HAVE NOT!!!
Law of diminishing return… I think the sweet spot is quality materials (forge/ billet) at a production level is the go too. Once you go full custom the cost to value/quality doesn’t necessarily equate “better” performance or reliability.
I feel he was off on a few points and started to do the “elite” bs. Function and reliability are huge and price doesn’t always equate to that.
After $1500 the ROI starts to diminish.
Anything over a Prodigy, you're just paying more for the "art" of a gun.
@@ShellShock794idk about that one I think staccato is the best price point for performance balance because a staccato doesn't have problems and prodigys do not have a good track record
Maybe. I don't own a 5k+ 1911/2011. I do own 4k Alchemy and a Staccato P. The Alchemy is better in everyway to include reliability. The staccato will choke on some ammo especially when it gets hot and dirty. The Alchemy Quantico has never had a hiccup not once. I've owned several dan wessons as well and none of them were as reliable as either the staccato or the Alchemy
For what it's worth, got a RI Double Stack 1911, base model. Works just fine, but after 2 years....prefer single stack. My 1911, Dad's GI 1911A1 and trigger time on WC. The RI DS will remain but if do over...single stack n Xtra mags. Do like it, we call it the beast. It works great
The production on these videos is just as outstanding as the guns. That being said I appreciate what you do and you have definitely helped me pick which 2011 I want… all of them haha
So nice already listened to the first few minutes/intro 4 times. Love the music, choice of words , “for the birds”, the pauses. Bravo, more of this scripting please.
The budget “hybrid 2011” im genuinely interested in is the stealth arms platypus… glock 17 mags, and their site as a lot of options for that pistol, not including all of the cerakote options on all of the individual parts, all for a starting price of $1400… I haven’t seen much on it, but if it’s reliable and shoots well it would be the best bang for your buck, in the budget 2011 scene, especially if you already run something that takes glock mags
I came to the comment section just to mention this pistol. And I really want one, and I really can’t wait for them to start offering them with a bull barrel.
@@ForceRecon112 why don’t they offer a bull barrel? And why would that be better?
@@madeintexas1213 im not sure if bushing barrels are offered in a full bull configuation. but i like bull barrels because they offer a little more weight so it CAN help with recoil. and i am a fan of bull barrels on all platforms just for the rigidity
@@ForceRecon112 I just ordered one with a bull barrel!
Loved the intro on this one. An hour of 1911 Syndicate is a good time
Jake and I are surprised at the amount of people digging the more long form stuff. Maybe we do more 🤷🏻♂️
@@Chrisblau personally Im a fan of longer videos, so id say go for it!
I know the prodigy got a lot of hate when it was first released but I think SA fixed a lot of the initial issues. My prodigy runs perfect and I have no issues with fit/finish or cycle of operation. I do get the long term reliability issues with MIM parts but you can always switch those parts out with DP, EGW, Infinity or Sti parts and still be well under most high end 2011’s. I am surprised you didn’t talk about TTI or Rock Island.
Me too. I'm surprised they never even reviewed one with 1911 in their name
I got a prodigy 5 inch not long ago. The gun is a beast, runs great, shoots better than I can shoot at my age. All in all I believe this gun is going to put a dig dent into these High and Super High dollar guns in the long run. I always wait before I jump on or in Bandwagon. Glade I waited I got it at a better price by waiting.
I got one Saturday and it ran out the box and was well lubed!!! 1499 b4 tax wit hex optic
I picked up the Prodigy 5" this week...freakin love it! SA marketing says they are Forged...not sure if there are some parts that may be MIM or Cast?? but sounds like the Frame and slide are at least forged.
Springfield Prodigy, little time polishing one and they are dead nuts accurate and reliable, probably more reliable than some of the $2500 to $5000 2011’s. I have an old double stack PARA and it is hard to beat plus ROCK ISLAND makes one hell of a solid frame double stack gun. Now I do like my two Staccato guns but their price is where I draw the line.
Christmas week 1993 I bought a Para Ordnance P12-45 made in Canada. I still own it & has been a great gun. You can feed it any kind of ammo with no issues whatsoever .
Great video, Staccato is used by over 750 agencies and NOT the border patrol, however, Yes, the Marshalls, Texas Rangers, LAPD Swat and many more do use the Staccato P as their base duty weapon. Oh and also, LVPD.
my personal pick is a rock island pro match. got mine for $1030 out the door, and so far the only downside to the gun is not having an optics cut, otherwise, it runs like a champ and well worth the money
I bought a Hayes Custom RIA ultra match pro. They turn the gun into a demon made in hell.
@@roguemodel
Honest Outlaw had the Hayes RIA as his gun of the year for 2022, if I remember correctly. I know he absolutely loves that gun.
The hour long time really threw me off but this video was well done and well worth the time to watch. Nice job guys.
Hey thank you man we appreciate the kind words we were hoping the hour long would be received well and it looks like it has been 👊🏼👊🏼
Thanks bro
For the raw material section, I can guarantee you that forged is stronger than a raw cut billet part, for forging you basically take a billet piece of metal and force that into the rough shape that the end piece is supposed to be, then after that step it will also be precision machined into the designed part.
Billet skips the forging step and goes straight into the machining from the factory metal billet you receive, that's also where the name comes from.
Why is it stronger? because the forging forces the metal grid/grain structure to follow the shape you want and doesn't seperate the inner metal bonds.
thanks for the knowledge. He makes great videos but no one can be right all the time. He said billet is stronger and I was like wait that doesn't sound right but I didn't have the background to fully understand why. I think mim is supposed to me stronger than cast also as its voids are more micro in structure? so wouldn't it be cast, mim, billet and forged?
The Alchemy also has a rounded trigger guard, unlike other double stack 1911s.
Old school is cool . I dig the hard chrome.
Rounded trigger guards are ok if hands are small/medium or shooting old-school one-handed.. But squared triggered guards are better at keeping modern support hand grip from slipping/sliding forward, especially with L/XL hands.
That was the best intro I've ever watched. Once I realized what you did with Mario, I lost it. Fantastic work.
Haha glad you enjoyed it
Right? Jake nailed it on this one
As for me I will stick with my Prodigy and Rock Island. I can get a Rock Island Dubble stack for less than a 1/3 of the price of some of these guns. It's a heavier gun by being all steel but runs great and you don't have to take out a 2nd mortgage. The Prodigy will put a dent in these high and super high dollars guns in the long run IMO. I can see it starting now as many want a good Dubble stack but not having to break the bank and taking out a 2nd mortgage for a gun and a few mags.
I've seen a couple Rock Islands that were turned into competition guns, and they held their own with the higher priced guns. Right there with the "entry level" base Staccatos that were upgraded for competition.
@@sethduzan4441 A gun doesn't have to in the thousands of dollars range to be a good gun. I don't need to pay for a name because it's cool.
Not really interested in the platform right now but these Friday afternoon videos have become a good tradition
hell yeah dude even though its no your thing right now we appreciate you watching, commenting, and supporting my dude
The Mario theme song was a great touch. You guys are AWESOME, keep up the good work.
🍻
I’m only about 2 minutes in, but what a phenomenal intro.
I gave it my best attempt
As if Mario Bros wasnt already badass. Youre channel is an inspiration for my channel as always.
Cheers mate
I'm hoping the industry starts moving towards fat 1911s. It kind of seems like everybody is slowly getting burnt out on polymer striker fired pistols in the last two years or so. There's nothing new anymore but 2011/DS 1911s are constantly coming out with new things.
I'd like to see some good $600 double stacks in a couple years.
Yup, absolutely correct. Anyone that has enuff trigger time an has experienced buyers remorse too many times with recent quality going severely down will be a smart move. Problom? Most of us can't afford those frigging prices. Hell there's currently no reason as of now why ammo alone is still high, once they figured out we will pay that price they keep it there
I love the Mario music, we just got in the Tisas Knightstalker. $960, threaded barrel, 17 rd checkmate staccato pattern mags, red dot cut, window cuts and front and rear serrations, magwell, amazing trigger, rail, night sights, in my opinion it’s leaps and bounds above the prodigy in fit and finish, build quality, it’s has a silky smooth action compared to the prodigy’s kinda rough and feels like it’s binding up, the trigger is very good.
Would be interesting to see where a Wilson combat double stack would fit in this list? 😎
Bro wtf is this production quality lmao, I subbed right after the whole Mario intro 😂 love it
Thought I was the only one with the atlas that thought like that. I’ve wanted it forever and once I got it and took it to the range it’s like meh. Didn’t impress me over some other guns. Going to give it a little more time before I decide to sell it but yeah checked all the boxes also.
Sad that a gun at that price is just MEHHHH but jake and i agree
That was a great location to film on, looks fantastic, the B roll was awesome and the dog in frame was the cherry on top.
Super Mario music had me dyin in the intro 😂
2011’s are a game
That alchemy sure does look like a smith and wesson 4506. I love it. Iconic looking.
If I didn't already own a Shadow 2 SAO and TS2 Green I would definitely want a 2011. The Staccato P is still definitely on my bucket list of pistols.
just get yout shadow 2 properly tuned and customised and you will have something that is as good as a les bear or infinity
@@susoku5615Is your comment from experience or from hearing from others?
@@5jjt both. I myself am a competition shooter and gunsmith specialised in handguns. What I said was collective experience from me and my coworkers.
Damn that theme music...That is so cool...
See the efforts these guys do for a gun review? Even the music is so cool...
We do our best
It's funny that you chose watches... In respect to Bill Wilson and what he use to do to now
Nice one! However you forgot the first one to ever become a doublestack! The good old Paraordnances (P1445/P1640 etc). Well done anyhow!
Why not a Prodigy?
😂
You are missing an even lower priced tier with the para clones from RIA. If you shop around you can be out the door with a double stack 1911 for under $1k. I have one and really like it. The only real upgrade that I really want on it is a rds cut.
I have the Bul SASii Ultra and it’s all the gun any normal average shooter would want. Amazing. The light weight when paired with the Underwood Xdefense ammo is addictive.
Thank you for confirming that the gun is as great as it looks. I have liked that great looking gun from the first video I saw it in! Congrats to you for having one!
I second the Bul SAS II. I have the non comped model and it is truly an awesome flat shooting pistol. I have a Staccato P as well and it’s a great pistol but Bul Armory is putting some kind of voodoo in their ultralights to make them run like heavier steel framed guns.
I'm just going to say thanks & this was a good video. Cause honestly otherwise I'm going to write an essay both on this topic and picking apart things in this video that weren't entirely accurate.
2 things to remember though people. More expensive doesn't always mean better & billet isn't always better than forged.
I agree with your statement on Atlas guns…. They are incredible however I do not feel a $3000 difference when shooting them vrs a staccato. My staccato xl is a great gun. I like nightforce also.. I dont like high maintenance…
I was at my brothers for 4th of july, shot my Staccato C2 next to his Atlas athena, the price difference was not there, nicest pistol in terms of racking the slide / grip and everything but not 2-3x price better.. than again.. probably same could be said for a Glock / SIG or even a BUL compared to Staccato.. is Staccato 2-3-4x better? naw.
You're right, my staccato XL is as sweet as it gets, it was built in the new Factory after they had moved and it's super nice,, 👍
Unexpected Nate Summers feature! Great guy. Truly passionate about his craft
I’m in the final 6 weeks of my year and a half wait for my Wilson combat 1911. I’m really trying my best to be patient but seeing all these nice guns is hurting me! I need mine!
Should have my Wilson Combat edc x9 experior Monday.
23 minutes in, this is an AWESOME video! Thanks!
Excellent, informative video. Most of us that are not doing competitive shooting are really not going to get the use out of the step up in quality, so the comparison to luxury watches is apt. Now we just need a video for the few options out for double stack 1911 in .45ACP, from the budget friendly RIA Tac Ultra FSHC, to the Remington R1 enhanced, Cosaint customs out of North Carolina, to the far more expensive options.
I doubt they’ll go that low in price comparison. People like to gate keep and keep the mass public from thinking they can attain a quality firearm and compete with the pretentious big spenders firearms and still have equal outcomes.
The rich HATE IT when poor people have things as good as them but paid drastically less.
Then they don’t get their rich boy pedestal feeling 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡
That was a crispy video 🔥
Gun video + Mario theme = thumbs up + subscription.
Thank you for the sub dude we appreciate it
🤙🏻
After over a decade of owning and shooting guns I finally got into the 1911 platform about a year ago. I didn't get anything super crazy, just a decent mid range ($1,200) 1911 and I must say that they honestly live up to the hype in my opinion. Aside from the capacity everything about a 1911 just feels so damn good mechanically, really nothing else quite like it. Now I'm thinking about getting a 2011 in the next year or so to get that extra capacity, this video definitely helped me out. Thanks!
Man those are some beautiful firearms, but the real star of the show is your dog. WOW is he ever a majestic animal. Very cool Mali!
He’s a handsome young man
Utah landscape is gnarly.
Right? Some lord of the rings style scenery. Fortunate Jake and I get to spend so much time out there
You all touched on a lot of this during the infinity review but went more in depth on each subject in this video.
I picked up a 4.25 Prodigy on sale and love shooting it, even if it’s entry level piece “for the poors”. I do have a wilson sfx9 in 5” which I love but that 2011 just fits my bigger hand better.
You can send it in to DSC Gunworks if you are into upgrading. Solid pricing and great turnaround and he makes them much nicer.
Infinity is the "Bugatti" of the 2011 world, STI/SVI (Tripp and Strayer) created the 2011 platform. There are also niche competition brands like Lim Cat or Accuracy X but SVI in a league of their own. Master gunsmith's can make you a 2011 too, like Joe Chambers but SVI can create whatever you can dream up because they machine everything in house.
I can’t wait to look back at this video in the next years and think, “wow they were crazy expensive back in the day!”
Ya think you gonna be waiting a long time.
Yea I don’t think they get cheaper
Picked up a staccato XC a few weeks ago and it’s absolutely amazing couldn’t recommend more
Awesome video. I intend to get the Springfield prodigy. For the $ it would serve me well. I also love the bul armory. Reach would be the staccato.
🤙🏻
Loved the intro. Definitely the best part of the entire video.
🍻
Your videos convinced me I need a 2011 or two. I have a 1945 Remington Rand and a 1918 Colt Model of 1911, but no 2011s. Ive been going back and forth between the Bul SAS II 4.25 and the Staccato P, and then also the Staccato XC and Nighthawk Sandhawk. Cant wait for this video.
jake knocked it out of the park on this video it should be a giant help thank you for watching man means alot to us
Bul punches way above their price class. But the 4.25 is a very basic gun. The comp/pro models are a lot more enjoyable. Or get a SL version if you are into competition. And the magazines are both more affordable, more reliable and also higher capacity than the STI type magazines. Especially if you get the new Mec-Gar 20 rounders with slide hold open followers. If your first 2011 is a BUL, so will all of the others be.
@@Chrisblau Video is excellent! Well worth my time as a viewer. I actually watched this with a buddy of mine who knows nothing about the lore the 1911 or 2011 and I think I converted him the cult. Also you guys convinced me to go for a Staccato P as my first 2011 and reaffirmed my desire for a Nighthawk Sandhawk. 10/10 content as always.
@@texasranger24 I really like what the BUL has to offer. That high round capacity almost tipped the scales for me. What it also ultimately came down to is I want to support an American based company spending that much money. After I get a Staccato P, I might look into getting a BUL SAS II SAW because it looks like a cool fun 2011 style pistol.
@@TheRealJeff984 Jeff you are one of the Real ones (see what i did there) appreciate you sharing with a buddy and watching the content. also we are happy to help you spend money an happy you snagged a Staccato P dude
With higher end watches you are also paying a premium for name. The Grand Seiko is one of if not the most accurate mechanical movement watch and is hand crafted, yet typically runs less than Swiss premium brand name watches.
Relating the statement above to 2011 guns is simply you are paying extra for a perceived benefit that you typically cannot tell when using an expensive 2011 in competitions. I can get a Prodigy, Canik SFX, Walter Q5 or a CZ shadow 2 or P10 do some mild mods and know my gun shoots just as well. Felt recoil is a matter of personal perception and ammo choice.
But on a side note we are all free to buy what we want.
So yesterday I shot XC with is a sure fire turbo(wlm) then immediately shot my 5 inch Infinity with a short dust cover none ported or none comped and would you believe it my Infinity had the same perceive recoil impulse as the comped xc then I shot the atlas erbus with a turbo light and gas’s pedal and that thing smoked the other two. I can only imagine what comped/ported infinity combo feels like
Yea the Erebus really does shoot great. I ran one last weekend for a bit
What's the difference in price from the XC and your Infinity?
@@awokeone7997 close to 3k
The intro was really one of the best I've ever seen. Very well done.
Id be interested to see where the Stealth Arms Platypus fares in comparison to these
We’ve tried. No luck yet
The epic Mario is making my 1980s era heart go pitter-patter.
It’s been on our list to use for a while
@@1911syndicateI got around to finishing this video this evening. This is some top tier work. Great explanation of the gun levels and value points.
I love the score. Bestest score of all scores. Needs to be taught to these new generations of kids in high school music class.
I'm surprised you don't have a Chambers Custom in this video. Or you may be waiting for one!
I am not waiting on one
@ Wilson Lei
Yea it’s not mandatory but can’t really say the 1911/2011 platform has been fully tested without at least diving into the Bob Marvel standard of the platform. Chambers is the best known example but there’s been a few to branch off from his shop who are doing similar work.
For that old school approach to workmanship the Marvel build philosophy is probably the best. Newer processes in machining have sped up the manufacturing, some have pretty good tolerances, hard to beat Marvels though.
@@marcusjohnson5839 True. Also, Rob S. at Alchemy builds a true hard fit gun. Tops in accuracy. His mentor in building hard fit 1911's was gained with His time a t Les Baer Customs. Now if Les would just build a 2011! Not holding my breath for that to happen. GRRRR!
KnifeMaker
Never was a fan of polymer guns,yes they are good but not my thing. Started with 1911 at 8 years old ,started competitive shooting at 12 . In all the conceivable calibers i have owned and shit them. Started on 2011 from STI over 15 years ago ,you know before they were cool. My limited gun was my carry gun for a long time and it amazed me how the non competitive shooting world most shooters never knew these guns existed. Im really glad there is a resurgence in the single action pistols derived from John Brownings original design.
The new stealth arms platypus has really caught my attention and it was a great experience shooting one of my friends. 45 acp is still best haha them 10mm its the best mm
Good overview, will be interested to see the Nighthawk review. Regarding Atlas ... how to put this ... I see a lot less "snap" in clips of Chris shooting the Atlas than I do in clips of Jake shooting the Atlas. Yes, Chris may be a yeti, but I think he also has better grip and recoil management ...
He weighs 100 pounds more than me
Captain of Crush grip trainer my dude. Btw if you guys want to review a TRS Comp I’ll send mine.
It must have something to do with how he is holding the pistol. Go back and watch where his trigger finger is and how far it has to angle downward to pull the trigger.
Join the 2011 groups , vast majority prefer atlas over nighthawk including me . The opinions of atlas in this video aren’t reciprocated by most .
Yeah I second that. Chris I think had better grip fundamentals. Also, yes you’re definitely supposed to ride the safety on an Atlas. It’s a feature not a bug. Designed for forcing superior grip fundamentals. If you don’t you’ll run into the issues he experienced. Looks like a training and personal preference issue rather than a gun issue.
I love how the only gun you guys showed that had MiM parts is the Alpha Foxtrot S15 and now they’re even using fully machined parts.
Good video keep up the good reviews.🤟👏👍😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
The Mario theme might be the greatest thing to ever happen to a guntube video.
Billet is only higher end than forging in terms of precision of the finished dimensions which can be matched by forging then machining to final specs. Billet does not add strength to the part the way forging does. Bullet simply means it was machines straight from a billet of metal which is a piece of metal stock which was formed by continuous casting usually. Forged parts will be made originally from an ingot which was a lump of metal cast then forged into a rectangular block for further working. At least that’s my understanding of it. Forging can’t make shitty material good, but it can add strength whereas billet is what it is. Billet parts are almost always machined from a pretty high quality piece of metal stock though. I would imagine that for slides and frames the final fit and finish from a billet machined part is worth more than the added strength from a forged part. My understanding of a forged part like say a 1911 frame is that they would start with an ingot, forge it into the rough shape of the frame and then machine away excess, followed by final heat treat once machine work is done. Again, I’m not a metallurgist or a pro in the field but I am interested in metal science to some extent. Anyone who knows more than me feel free to jump in here and correct any mistakes.
The only real downside to forgings is the costs associated with their production provixed youre comparing roughly equal metal chemistries.
@@roberthutchinson2856 This has always been my understanding. I feel it’s more correct to think of forging not strictly as a type of material but rather a process of how the material or part was made. I have always been informed from the world of cars that if all things like metal chemistry are equal a forged part made of the same material or material of similar quality from a billet; the forged part will be more expensive due to the increased production time and effort but will also have added strength from the forging process. I don’t think that extra strength is really needed for a 1911 slide and frame when the alternative would be premium quality billet steel.
@@JG54206 thats correct it really isnt needed in a ton of parts. Heck mim works in a lot of places as well if designed properly.
The only slide i can think of that uses forgings is the hk usp line.
@@roberthutchinson2856 I think some older manufactured 1911’s and maybe some current ones still used forged frames and slides but I could be mistaken.
1911 Syndicate at its best here!!!! 👌🏻
It’s all Jake brother 👊🏼
@@ChrisblauBro, i was talking about Crispy! 😎
Very well said
You answered about every question regarding the intelligent way to buy a 2011.
I would have bought a Staccato and, yes, spent $1500 to upgrade it.
Thanks guys
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4:35 "...yeah, or be cool and learn some stuff." Literally come back here once a week to hear that gem 😂. Literally gonna get that line tattooed on me.
I'm sure someone will hop in and ask where the Springfield prodigy is....not that its a contender but it could have been great
Can only feature what I own or have access to
Only my second video of this channel, but im really enjoying these opinions and particular viewpoint. My families personal combat experience tells me strikerfired sidearms are best for combat, but hammerfired has a tried and true place for almost any scenario.
Dude ya'll are freaking awesome. Ya'lls editor had some fun with this one. Super dope, top video quality, cools ass dudes, dope ass takes and 34,000 hurt my soul damn. Any chance either of you get around to the new kimber, eaa or stealth arms double stacks?
Stealth we tried to get for a review. Not looking likely. I’m all set on the kimber
@@1911syndicate hell yeah that's fire predicted the response brother!
@@1911syndicate I'm on week 5 of my order, when I did it was a 6 week lead time so I'll be getting mine soon. I might be open to letting you guys take a look at it if you wanted for a few weeks, I know they are hard to get hands on with at the moment.
BDS9 is insane. Definitely my favorite of the bunch.
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The Para Ordinance is the OG Double Stack 1911
Typically required a lot of work to get tuned for competition use. I sold mine long ago, but once I got it up and running like a sewing machine, it was great.
Im one of those guys that drive you crazy with Staccato upgrades. I didn't have 4.5k to drop on a Fowler at one time though. Also, I upgraded the 2019 P which has a full length dust cover and is no longer made so it has some pretty decent collectors value. If I ever want to jump into the next level of refinement i should have no problem selling to upgrade or trade into that "sweet spot" as you call it.
I love your content guys. Keep up the great videos.
Whatever makes you happy is what you should do. Let me opinion not steer you
Can you guys do a review on the Stealth arms Platypus?
I would love it if you emailed them and suggest that. I’m gotten that request about 100 times no joke. But they didn’t want to do a review
Its kinda junk. If you want a 2011, start with staccato and then spend what you want.
Great video fellas as usual. Been trying to fight for the platform for decades. Received all the standard excuses as usual, too heavy, minimal capacity, old gun/old man, etc,etc. My favorite guns of all time since childhood were 1911's. Best handling and feeling gun in the hand (IMO) over all the guns I've been fortunate to carry and/or to shoot. I've carried Glock for 30+ years for duty/swat/etc but my favorite guns are the 1911 platform or its offspring. Luckily Staccato pushed their line to a carry/duty line and the platform has finally took off again and is going strong. 2011's are the new AR's. Everyone is making or trying to make one nowadays. It's funny that everyone acts like these are the new hotness when they've been making these in the competitive realm for decades. Video explains it perfectly, chess vs checkers, and there are varying qualities between the starter 2011's through the high end models. You can't purchase performance but you can purchase quality, don't forget as well, its the Indian not the Bow.
Same, I've wanted an STI since I was a kid (still too poor to justify it) and it's been hilariously gratifying to see the same people who told me that it was ridiculous to carry a competition gun for duty use change their tune to telling me how many LE agencies issue them 😂
@@shinobi-no-bueno Exactly. I remember when we'd use them in a class and get told how "we couldn't wake up and smell the new millennium". I even have some very good lifelong friends in the instruction and teaching professions who talked down the platform and its age and design which wasn't as advanced as what we have available now. Funny, shove a glock mag mag up a 1911's ass and now it's all new and they're using them. Now, speaking so highly of them and how much better they are than the plastic fantastics. Should've listened to us old guys, we told you they are solid, phenomenally accurate firearms with a great trigger decades ago. I've know it for 45-46 years. You also hear, but this is a 9 not a 45. Well some of us can shoot the 45 very well and aren't undegunned due to capacity like the rest of you, I know how to reload very fast and efficiently. They do make 9mm single stacks but it's funny they never realized or recognized those, I guess capacity was an issue with them as well. All capacity gives you is more capacity, it doesn't get you fundamentals, accuracy, weps handling skills, etc, etc. Sometimes the old guys were right, you just can't tell some folks, they've gotta learn at their pace. LMAO
Just got a Prodigy 5” to see if it’s actually worth anything or not. Regardless, I want the BUL SAS II TAC 4.25” some kind of bad. All of these are great, but if you suck at shooting, at least you have a dope gun lmao. Love your stuff guys.
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I always thought Staccato's were crazy expensive until I went down the rabbit hole of 2011's like this video lol can't wait to buy the new Staccato C this summer.
Nice video. The interesting thing as you mentioned is the number of new entrants into this space recently, especially at the entry level, and I do think we have Staccato to thank for that. I'm waiting on my 1st "2011" from Stealth Arms, but having shot a few previously, know it won't be my last. I was just very tempted by the G17 mag compatibility as a starting point, as the proprietary mags had been the main sticking point for me in the past.
The Stealth arms platypus is 🔥 But it's a 1911, not a 2011.
@Shayne Brathwaite it's a "double stack" 1911. Same damn thing.. 🤷♂️
Gonna get one of those two. The Platypus is a serious game changer in my opinion...
@@wlz28but it isn't a 2011 or a 1911
@@Neons1223how is it a 1911?
I have a host of guns from IWI Masada to an Infiniti. My Infiniti is a show pony, But I love my Bul Armory SAS II PRO and my Hayes. MIM parts are good when the gun is new. However, tolerances and operational integrity rapidly decline with use. An important example would be the ignition system.