Darla • S02E07 • TPN’s Angel Guide
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2020
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Music Credits:
Opening Theme
Wil Hughes
www.wilhughes.com/
Sources
"Writer-producer Tim Minear on directing `Darla`"
By: EDWARD GROSS
Fandom.com
web.archive.org/web/201603070...
Robert Kral’s quote is cited on wikipedia but I couldn’t back trace it to the original interview. Just other reviews from websites that are no longer up.
Clips from
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel the Series
The Twilight Zone
Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf?
The Good Place
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Passion of the Nerd reviews Darla. From Angel, Season 2, Episode 7. Written and Directed by Tim Minear. Starring David Boreanaz as Angel. Charisma Carpenter as Cordelia Chase. Alexis Denisof as Wesley Wyndam-Pryce. And J. August Richards as Charles Gunn. And Julie Benz as Darla.
#angeltheseries #davidboreanaz #timminear 
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I love what they did with Darla in Angel. She had more depth here than she had in Buffy. She was more of a mustache twirling villain on Buffy.
Yeah Darla is great, I wish we got more of her
It actually occurred to me the other day while discussing it on Reddit, but if Darla had gotten this depth in Buffy Season One, she would have made a MUCH better and richer Big Bad than the Master
Sam Gonzalez
Maybe if season 1 had 10 more episodes and Angel’s reveal was at the midpoint of the season?
@@zemoxian
Honestly it's a good thing they had a break between season 1 and season 2, time to figure out what worked so they could improve.
Meris
Definitely. I think it was Joss’s first time as show runner too. Steering that ship while trying to figure out how much to change conventions, development of characters, etc., must have been daunting.
It’s funny watching new reactors wondering when the plot was going to move forward, wanting to skip filler episodes, etc. When I started the show, it hadn’t occurred to me that I’d want to start the show from the beginning and avoiding spoilers. That didn’t even seem to be a thing back then.
It’s like they took building longer stories into the framework of the show and made it popular.
Now, I don’t even want to skip episodes. Except that one Buffy episode that I have to be either in a really positive mood or in the need of a good cry. That and the one after I’ve skipped on occasion.
I like to think this episode does more to make the Master more compelling than Buffy's first season
Krishna Nadoli Absolutely. Definitely the most interesting the Master ever was except maaaaybe The Wish?
He's more interesting in theory than in practice
@@meris8486 I always found him interesting. It really his followers aside from Darla and Luke that were lacking.
1) I didn't realize until your summary that Angel retained all his memory from I Will Remember You. He remembers what it is like to have a heartbeat and have it taken away from him. To be forced back into his vampirism.
2) "You damned me." is one of Angel's best lines. David Boreanaz gives phenomenal delivery. It's so honest. His voice even cracks a bit as he says it. As though he can't believe he's getting the chance to speak the words.
"This is the bad place" is also Angel's realization at the end of Holland's elevator ride, which leads him to his existential dread and to bed Darla to lose his soul in apathy and despair.
Yep.
Just had a spine tingling moment: 15:36 : "You think you did me a favour?"
I swear David B puts an Irish inflection on favour. I LOVE the idea that he's so broken with memory and emotion he slips into his human voice, the voice he had as a victim. The voice he had when he first met his abuser Darla. 😭
I sooo hear this too, a lot!
i think the scene in the confessional could be read as Angelus stalking Dru after already seeing her from afar with Darla and then killing her priest (she probably went to him regularly at least for sunday service) and this was the start of Angelus killing everyone around her, he probably even let her find the body
Regarding Angel's "never fed on a living human again" thing: Oh, you mean a guy told a fib to a girl, to make himself look better? Soooo shocking! Haha
IDK he was being pretty vulnerable and full of self loathing in that moment, hardly the state of mind where he could be expected to lie to make himself look good. That said, I think there's still a distinction between "kill" (which is all this episode firmly establishes he did) and "fed" In fact that's a distinction we see Angel/Angelus make multiple times across both series'
It's far more likely to me that he didn't want to admit to something he was ashamed of so he kind of glossed over it thinking if he had only fed on bad people it didn't really count.
@@user-do2ev2hr7h As well learn later on he's fed and killed innocents in a way I don't think we was willing to reveal to Buffy.
@@DesignIncase Yes, I was trying to avoid spoilers in my original comment, but I don't think this is much of a retcon on that particular point compared to say "Why We Fight" is much later.
@@user-do2ev2hr7h Yes, yes! I just watched that one (yet again).
Buffy is like stepping stone,but Angel is the in depth of these characters. Whether Angel himself, Cordelia, Wesley ,Darla is each step the more you get.
I actually love they got Mark Metcalf back for the Master, he sat down for five hours for the makeup. That shows dedication.
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this (and it is one thing I noticed you didn't mention) was how much this story also follows the arc of a drug addict trying to rescue the person that first got them addicted. Darla was his enabler and the one who gave him his demon, but he still feels a connection to the person because of a shared past and the belief they can save them from the same demons. Her begging at the end can be read like someone desperate for a hit, and trying to convince the other person to give them it no matter how much the other person is trying to talk sense into them.
I've said this before but you could take away almost all the supernatural elements and ANGEL would still work pretty well as about a PI who is a recovering addict trying to make amends for the harm they caused.
@@thomasknash Indeed. In fact, a lot of the beats of Angel's backstory and arc also track amazingly well with David Boreanaz's subsequent character on Bones, and that's a pretty stock standard police procedural archetype.
Whoa, that episode of The Twilight Zone must have surely been a huge influence on The Good Place.
Never made the connection before I wrote this. I'm sure other people have though.
Given that several of the key talent (perhaps most notably for our discussion here Drew Goddard) had backgrounds in genre television, that seems a pretty logical assumption.
Well spotted!
I was thinking about how Ian called Darla “vampire Harley Quinn” but in a way? Darla is actually the Joker, and Angel is Harley. Darla turned Liam into a monster like her, like Mistah J turned Harleen Quinzel when he threw her in the acid. Darla abused and manipulated Angelus and called it love, and it was only when Angel got his soul (his agency) back, that he realized it was never love, and now he’s reclaiming his own identity independent of her, same as Harley does when she leaves Joker. Oh wow. Analogies are fun.
So true 👌
Angelus is also the Joker to Drusilla's Harley since he drove her insane and used her for his own ends after he turned her. And just as Joker often got bored of Harley and kicked her out Angelus eventually got sick of Dru which led her to turn Spike.
Technically, when he and her had their souls. They experienced real love for each other.
@@shayla106 Joker didn’t love Harley, he wanted to possess her. Abuse is not love.
Every time I rewatch Buffy and Angel I can’t believe how much more I love Angel. Don’t get me wrong I will always love Buffy, but having gone from someone who took a few tries to get through season 1 of Angel, to someone who now prefers Angel I’m always surprised at how I ended up in this state.
"To feel that heartbeat, to know (...) that you're alive. It's a gift." I can't believe I didn't pick up on that before. It wasn't long ago since "I Will Remember You" happened, was it? Sure, Angel was human before, but I think he was too much of a "drunken whoring layabout" to appreciate life, to see it as a gift. But having spent one day as a human, alive and in love, after centuries of being un-dead, he is now able to appreciate life the way he does. Coming from him it's not just an inspirational Facebook post.
The only reason we thought the flashback scenes were “retcon-y” when this first aired was because in Fool For Love, which aired right before Darla, it showed the Boxer Rebellion of 1900 and seemed to present an evil, pre-ensouled Angelus even though we knew from Becoming he was cursed with a soul in 1898. Then Darla aired and revealed it was an act by Angel and it was all good. As far as an ensouled Angel trying to rejoin the Fang Gang? Seemed perfectly plausible to me. It’s not like he knew anyone else or had anywhere else to go. It was all he had known for 100 years. And he never crossed the line by killing an innocent.
I like to think it wasnt "Retcon-y" and it more being Spike as an unreliable narrator. In Spikes version Angel is proud of him because thats what Spike remembered or wanted to hear, in Angels version he is ashamed and saddened because thats what actually happened and is what Angel and Darla remember.
@@SkyeBlacke I'd argue that even in "Fool for Love", Angel never comes across as "proud". Possibly jealous, but his emotions are (understandably) a bit hard to read.
In truth, I kind of feel it's obvious that that's not Angelus in "Fool for Love", because of the amount of fear he shows early on in the flashbacks. Angelus is a c*cky bastard, and I have a hard time imagining him actually terrified of anyone (especially a slayer). Granted, I had the benefit of having watched Angel before watching Buffy, so I did know when they cut to the Boxer Rebellion later in that episode. However, my first reaction when we see Angel(us) telling Spike that he's put them all in danger was "why would Angelus care this much about the townspeople being after them?"
@@SkyeBlacke Oh, Spike is an ABSOLUTELY unreliable narrator: He tells us that the Boxer Rebellion Slayer's last words were "tell my mother I'm sorry," followed immediately by "Sorry love, I don't speak Chinese." So how did he know what she said, maaaan? 🤣
That simply shows the difference in perspective. Angel looks unhappy in both episodes and it’s only in his own we find out it’s because he has a soul (which really perceptive viewers would have pieced together anyways because of the timeline).
@@darkdesigns Angelus is a cocky son of a ....., but he is also selfish and thinks only about his own safety.
He would not knowingly go up against a slayer that he had no advantage over (he went for Buffy because he knew much about her thanks to his ensouled self's relationship with her and knew her soft points to target).
If he was as cocky as you make out, he would not care about facing down Holtz and his hunters, but he would rather run away and go for Holtz when he was alone.
"A single donut is a luxurious thing. A diet of ONLY donuts is a meaningless hell."
TOP NOTCH analogy of a complex issue, memorable and applicable to various concepts, 10/10 want on a poster
Unless you're Homer Simpson, who famously outlasted the "endless donuts" ironic punishment.
I love that you weaved The Good Place into your point
This year was my first watching angel. I had avoided it because as a 14 year old I thought angel (the character) was insufferably boring. I honestly couldn’t have imagined how much I’d love this show. Not only did it change my opinion on angel, but sometimes I almost prefer it to buffy.
Anyway, I’m glad I waited. I needed this show this year.
I love the hell commentary. If vampirism is a kind of hell, it makes it even darker to think that people don't do bad things and deserve damnation in this universe. They're just damned because they were... unlucky victims?
I think that's the whole point of the "Vampires as metaphor for sexual assault" angle, most of the time, misery breeds misery, cruelty can turn people cruel.
Darla was actually my very first Buffyverse episode ever so it will always have a special place in my heart
I love this episode so much. Darla was so uninteresting on "Buffy", but the flashbacks and following Darla's response to being human again is just so interesting. She's one of my favorite Buffyverse characters, in large part due to this episode.
The way you explain Darla's power over Angel is excellent. I never thought of it that way.
On another note. I LOVE ANGEL over Buffy. I really can't wait for you to do a character breakdown of Connor.
I LOVE the association you make to Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf? , and would really enjoy for that entire play to be rewritten to star the fanged four. They could be drinking blood instead of brandy.
That end credit montage was one of your best yet!
I also love this episode's ability to give more weight to Spike's last moments in "Fool for Love." This episode shows how thoroughly vampires are creatures of selfish action; even Drusilla made Spike purely because she wanted a companion who was all hers (and Darla / Angelus didn't want to have to care for her 24/7). But Spike did perhaps the most selfless thing he could for Buffy and just sat there with her, no judgement, no ribbing.
A great episode of Angel; loved your take on Lindsey, he feels very underrated despite being one of the most complex and magnetic characters across the entire Buffyverse (in my opinion).
2:00 As a native of Fairfax, Virginia native, I greatly appreciate you calling out this detail.
16:45 JASON?? JASON FIGURED IT OUT?
I hoped Ian would explore why the master was interested in turning Darla and keeping her so close to him. I've always wondered. The master seemed picky about who he sired.
I agree! It has some-Mayor/Faith notes to it.
My knee-jerk answer would be the desire to turn someone so beaten down by life. The guarantee that they’ll never betray a human weakness. He wanted to turn someone who would truly feel saved by evil.
That, and there could be a very interesting question of a daughter before his turning. Or a lack of one.
I would like to know this too.
My assumption is that finding someone who truly has nothing to loose and everything to gain from your deal is someone you wouldn't pass up, which is exactly what Darla was.
The whirlwind and the master are all great spinoff candidates IMO.
@@samiridgethevoice I don't think Darla is beaten down by life - she's dying. But that's not the same, she's still quipping as she goes- her spirit is far from broken . She lives in the Virginia colony which was only established the year before, that isn't her home - where she's from, it's where she chose to go. As a single woman she got on a boat, left her real home behind and sailed off to a new world out of choice to make her own way. Now she's dying and she's refusing priests and saying the devil can take her if he'll have her but it's all one to her. She is monumentally unafraid of the great wide beyond, whatever form that might happen to take, she chooses to head into it without knowing what awaits her or even preparing for it - she is about the adventure, the whirlwind.
I think it's her fearlessness, her willingness to jump into the next big thing and just see where it takes her and her scorn for people who prefer security and safety (as shown through her scorn of priests, she mocks the security religion brings) which brings the master to her. He can see the potential for what an amazing vampire someone this fearless would make and wants to be a part of creating and nurturing that. Out of all the people at the colony who were just trying to survive in a harsh environment, Darla was hedonistically trying to live - but now she's dying, and the master knows - out of everyone in the colony - she will enthusiastically embrace this next adventure he has to offer.
Charlotte Giles I might’ve been making too much of an interpretation with “God never did anything for me.” It felt like that recklessness was a disdain for living and a defeatist attitude towards life. Quipping can be a bitter way of hiding those feelings. The Master was venturing to put new life into her.
lindsay is fascinating in that he gives us a real insight into how grace in the face of injustice, doesn't always inspire nobility. I can totally see how lindsay's father, who has lost 2 children, could treat another man like someone "just doing what he has to" when he takes their family home as part of his job.
And I can also see how a child in their formative years could mistake his father's social decency for weakness; and vow never to put themselves in that situation no matter the emotional cost.
2:00-2:25 was interesting despite being a history lesson. If I had been told that information in a history class or from a textbook I wouldn't have cared, oddly enough.
I always looked at Angel telling Buffy he hasn't fed off anyone since then as a blatant lie so he would get her to trust in the good guy/soul thing that Buffy was still on the fence about. Had he tried to explain the nuances of the scene in this episode telling Buffy he didn't bite Joyce would have been for nothing. And I personally think Angel still works on that "code" well into S2 with Buffy needing to give him a look over the hospital bood in _The Dark Age_ as he still drinks from those in the episode _Angel._
I didn't know the composer chose not to collaborate, despite knowing the music for the companion flashbacks were different.
I always looked at the episode the way I an does in this video, just never with the complexity he did.
The ending moment from _The Good Place_ TV Show was exactly what I was thinking all the way through the video. It would be a great show to study the way Ian does BtVS and AtS.
I appreciate this show for the depth it gave Darla. What a great character
I finished my yearly Buffy-thon about 2 months ago, and am working though Angel with my partner now. I agree that the brighter, more upbeat Buffy definitely gives a completely different experience than Angel. Since my last Angel-thon, I’ve started reviewing The OA on Netflix, which completely changed how I watch my favorite shows. It wasn’t until I started watching Angel more as a reviewer rather than a passive experience that completely changed the entire experience of this show (in a positive, more analytic way). Thank you for these guides, as it’s given me a new perspective on my favorite series’s’s, and opened up my own creative processes...ses...
Darla is 100% my favourite in angel and buffy!
Oh man your speech on the currency of time is so poignant (that resonates with me so much) and the cuts to Doyle are the icing on the cake I got a little teary-eyed. I can’t help but feel like as the series progresses we tend to gloss over Doyle’s pivotal role and importance to the verse so I’m loving any and all callbacks to him nearly a season after his demise. I expect you’re covering this sooner or later but it certainly rings true to the iconic “if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do” line from Epiphany. In all it’s timey-wimey shenanigans and retcons Doctor Who covers very similar ground I love realising these subtle connections between universes. I’m particularly mulling over David Tennant’s 10th Doctor’s dialogue “It’s not about the time, it’s the person”. It’s a much simpler rendition of this theme and hell maybe Russell T Davies was directly inspired by Angel in the very same way but I feel it still carries a similar weight. You’ve knocked it outta the park again Ian!
One of my favorite written lines in any tv show, “You damned me.” and you got it! Love your work, dude. You are seriously one of the most thoughtful and insightful essayists on this entire platform.
I always like the similarity of the two moments between Angel and Darla where each one tries to have the other one 'save' him or her and both of them rejecting each other.
This episode was the sole reason why I watched Dexter. "While Spike - *Spike* - was killing a Slayer, you were saving missionaries... from me." Illyria, Julie Benz knocked it out of the park.
Season 2 is just so damn meaty.
The slow motion shot of the vamp quartet, where Spike hops off the barrel, is my favorite shot of the entire Buffyverse.
The only retcon I don't like is Angel and Drusilla's meeting. I preferred them meeting at church where she confessed her visions. It was so much more poetic than this version where Darla points her out to Angel.
Except that at that point - in the confession booth, that is - it can be surmised that Angelus already knows who Drusilla is. The "demon child" comment is out of place otherwise, and specifically refers to the visions Angelus already know that Drusilla has.
To be fair, even though it probably was the intention, there's nothing in the scene in the confessional that absolutely makes clear that was the first time Angelus encountered Drusilla, only that he was momentarily surprised by her appearance
Angel didn't actually meet Drusilla here. He just saw her when Darla pointed her out and became interested in her. He probably waited for her in that church on purpose, so he could start driving her mad.
Angel only tells Buffy that he hadn't fed on a living human being since getting his soul back. If he killed criminals and then fed on them (thus not making them suffer), he was still telling the truth.
I am constantly looking for more on Lindsay McDonald. There is so much there, but so little info on it
Season 2 and Season 5 of Angel are nearly flawless. And your episode guides are just getting better, and better, and better.
I don't remember a lot of fan opposition to this but I could be misremembering it. Then again, how you reacted to "Fool For Love"/"Darla" often depended on what your position on B/A was. Personally I've always loved these two episodes. This is ME writing at it's very best, IMHO and the acting is painfully good.
A reference to one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes makes an already good review even better.
9:00 Thomas Wanker is German, so I'm almost certain it's pronounced Vanker :)
Fantastic review as usual ;)
Angel has almost been a show I always have pockets of unclarity from time to time and you seem to remedy that with envious ease. I love this episode but you explained, even more than I realized, why I love this episode. Another excellent for the books. Also love the ending of this video. Perfection.
SPOILERS FOR BUFFY SEASON 5:
I always assumed that in the afterlife, Darla went to the same empty place Buffy did at the end of The Gift. For Darla, it was "a great big nothing." Meanwhile, for Buffy, it was "No pain, no fear, no doubt". The opposite of "hard" and "bright". In both cases, the afterlife was defined by what it wasn't.
Via Acathla, Angel got pulled into another world, apparently full of suffering. But he didn't cross over to that in death, just like Buffy didn't die in "Anne."
Hell dimensions aren't the same thing as the afterlife, *probably* because Joss didn't want a concrete answer yet to the question of where we go when we die in the Buffyverse, as it would open the door to answering bigger questions, like about the existence, identity, and nature of the "Sky Bully."
I don't even think that Angel died and went to Hell; He merely traveled through a portal. I mean, since when does a metal sword through the chest kill a vampire?
Actually, that makes a lot of sense - and actually kind of lends to the idea that there isn't an actual afterlife in the Buffyverse. As you said, Buffy and Darla both define it by what it isn't. For a good person in a cruel world, nothingness is peaceful - there is no pain, no sorrow, no hatred, harshness or fear. For someone like Darla, who actually *enjoys* the cruelty of the real world, and longs for a "beautiful view, with a pretty face" nothingness is pure hell. Death is solace to the good, and horrifying to the cruel, not because there is a heaven or hell - but because the world is a cold, uncaring place, and oblivion is a mercy to those who have to suffer through it, and horrifying to those who thrive on the cruelty born of it.
Okay, that is probably the most emo thing I've written since High School. XD But I think I understand the Buffy cosmology a little more, now. Thanks!
* * Spoilers * *
(oh, also, it is interesting to note how these two characters are also mirrors of each other - and how one begins the season coming back from the afterlife, and the other ends the season entering it)
That is a good point but Buffy did jump into a portal in the Gift. Her body stayed on earth but remember that in the season it is explained that Glory didn't have a body per se in her dimension and only needed one in ours, i always had the opinion that Buffys soul went to said dimension, and that is why osiris could bring her back, because she was not in the strickt sense dead.
That for me made even more scence when taking in account that she came back slightly different so that spike could hurt her, because miniture fractions of this dimension came back on and in her soul.
@@darkdesigns But Darla doesn't define it as good or bad. She literally has no memory of it - like she simply didn't exist anymore (which is what death is). There's nothing horrifying about simply not having consciousness. Considering all the evil vampires do - I would say nothing is a very kind fate for them in a world that has an afterlife. It's like they just don't get an after life - you know, like in reality. It's not hell, it's not cruel or horrifying - it just is. Except it isn't - because she isn't aware of it, because she doesn't exist anymore.
The more interesting question was where was Darla's living soul? Because that's been gone since 1609, it didn't do the things Darla did so if it is in hell simply because she got turned into a vampire then that is deeply unfair, the people who become vampires are murder victims not murderers. But she has been returned with her soul - where was that and why doesn't it remember the past 400 years in heaven or some form of afterlife, if Buffy remembers an afterlife? Why doesn't Angel remember heaven?
It's easy enough to headcanon that you need a soul to get into an afterlife, therefore vampires don't go there they literally just dust and become nothing - but that doesn't explain where the souls of the people who became vampires go, they died when they were turned - that is when their soul should go to an afterlife. Every vampire who gets their soul back should by rights go through the same ripped out of heaven trauma Buffy does.
The only thing I can think is that a soul cannot enter the afterlife until its body is at rest, so the souls of vampires are out in the ether waiting until their vampire self is staked and then they will go on. Which would explain why Angel has no memory of heaven - Liam hasn't got there yet. But Darla was staked over on Buffy, so her human soul should have been able to cross over so - why doesn't newly alive Darla remember it?
When Darla remembers nothing she is speaking for both the soul and the demon. They should have been in different places - but there is a blank on both, and that doesn't make sense because Buffy does remember. Unless memory loss is a side effect of the raising, or even something Wolfram and Hart specifically asked to be a part of it, so they didn't have to deal with that trauma and they could use her how they wanted. But then if there's just nothing because her memories have been removed, that tells us nothing definitive about what an afterlife is like for a vampire or if one even exists. It doesn't give us any insight at the mythology or theology of the verse at all.
I feel like buffy described it as positive in some ways, not as just an indifferent state, she said 'I was warm and I was loved and i was finished, complete'
C.S. Lewis wrote several fictional versions of hell, one of his most popular took place in "The Great Divorce," where Hell is a vast empty wasteland of abandoned houses, and rundown pawn shops. It's an ever-expanding ghetto, because the damned cannot stand other people and they hate themselves. They are forever caught blaming their state on everyone except for themselves. In this way, I imagine a vampire's hell would be forever lost in hatred, without any self-reflection (as evidenced by the lack of mirrors).
Lewis's main point was the the only thing keeping people in Hell was their own refusal leave.
@@Kuudere-Kun Oh, I totally understand. I was using his hell as an example; I wasn't trying to interpret a different theme than was his intent.
17:30 “this is the other place!” Is as chilling as Michael’s laugh from the season 1 finale of The Good Place
"This is the Bad Place" made me laugh so hard I scared my cats
If you want to expand on the song/music metaphor:
Buffy is a lot like a playlist of pop music. It can be bright and happy and, at it's best, hit us right in the feels. And the way pop music sounds always changes over time, but it usually uplifts us and sometimes mixes in different genres.
Angel is definitely more like a playlist of dark, bluesy type of jazz music associated with noir movies, maybe mixing in some classical and rock songs. All the songs evoke a sad, contemplative feeling that's best enjoyed with red wine.
Incidentally, the Spike-centric episode (Fool For Love) and Angel's parallel episode (Darla) feel like different songs in and of themselves. Spike, as we know, is often associated with rock music (especially one certain 80s singer from England) and his episode definitely evokes a lot of rock themes. In contrast, the music that comes to mind Darla is more reminiscent of classical music used for horror movies, with a very tragic undertone, foreshadowing what's to come.
I was waiting for a "The Good Place" reference during the video. You did not disappoint.
I was so hoping for a good place montage when you mentioned the bad place 😂
I always found lindsay super interesting and never considered that Holland knew just how morally conflicted he was at times and kept it as a tool
Angel + Darla = OTP
They definitely deserve each other in a lot of ways.
Wow, cutting to Doyle when you talked about the currency of life being time... that is some amazing editing.
“Rapists, murderers, thieves”
Yes one of these definitely or like the others. To put it in a modern context “rapists, murderers, shoplifters.” Why was killing thieves ok(ish) to Angel?
Personal theory, he grew up rich, hundreds of years ago when thieves were hanged. And as a dumb, hedonistic member of the upper class, Liam never considered the immorality of executing thieves, so neither did Angel
Also a surprising number of the hedonistic upper class tend to be thieves. And there's differences between types of thievery. Sometimes it ends in murder and violence for not all are Robin Hood or Aladdin other times it ends int tragedy and fear as some are. But then few things are lacking grey in terms of entire groups. To say all good is the same as saying all bad, it lacks nuance. Anywho that's my take, having unfortunately been around many as a child. And then some of the upper class version as I got older.
Disagree on that point. In the Ten Commandments, the injunctions against murder and adultery are followed by an injunction against theft. So "murderers, rapists, and thieves" is a normal, logical progression, with long historical precedent.
(As it happens, within Rabbinic Judaism, theft is an outlier, as the first two are depicted elsewhere as capital crimes and theft is not. So the "Thou shalt not steal" is understood to actually refer to kidnapping - stealing of people - which is described elsewhere as a capital crime. I've never heard of this reading outside of Judaism, though, so my previous point stands.)
@@menachemsalomon Well that went over my head a little, do you mean Angel went after kidnappers? Cuz I would make a lot of sense.
@@barbarabaker1457 No, I'm saying that listing thieves along with rapists and murderers has a long history. Aside, I'm noting that the incongruence of listing thieves along with rapists and murderers also has a worthy pedigree.
@@menachemsalomon Cool, thanks. I know a few historical things on the subject you used, poor adam and eve translation updates, the origin of the word Palestine and few other things in that area, what stoning used to mean and some basic language things. But a lot of it, I got nothing.
Buffy and angel, ahhh the best shows💗💗they have really meant a lot to me growing up, and you making these videos has made me realize other people understand my passion for these shows!! Thankyou!!!
Great analysis, Ian. Loved that you went more in-depth on Lindsey. I always loved that character & thought Christian Kane did a great job in the role. 😀
I just realized I want a “The Good Place,” review series now. 😂
The ‘friendly old man’ from The Twilight Zone is like a Bad Janet pretending to be a Good Janet
I loved this episode, one of the best, I've been checking up since you started editing for the upload!
I like how much we got of all the vamps and how fleshed out Darla and The Master are, as apposed to how comical they were in Buffy, yet they still have the characters we're familiar with, The Master is still classy and sassy and Darla is still easy to underestimate, like when she cornered the gypsy man, the scene is about a minute long yet she was direct, pleasant, reasonable and tragic all at the same time in managing to threaten, speak of her strife and offer a deal, we saw that she is a competent leader to Drusilla and Spike, though they're hard work yet Angelus's absence is felt, as if he's the fun parent and she's the serious one, you learn all you need to know about their dynamic.
Darla seems the slick leader, yet she's happy to be the partner or sidekick/underling, she's happy to live in luxury, travel, hang out in hipster clubs with high schoolers, or live in the sewer, her survival over centuries makes sense.
I never saw the retcon, Angel says he never fed on another living human, he never said he hasn't killed one.
Great guide as always and I also love this episode. I try not to bother getting hung up on lore with Whedon for the simple fact he admits he doesn't know how things work. There are so many inconsistencies if you try to nitpick. As you point out, the lore or metaphysics is the collection of metaphors they use for struggle and sometimes they change a bit if the story requires it. I'm fine with that so long as it's not just ridiculous. I do agree with your take that there is nothing for a vampire to experience, but I also don't know that it says anything that she can't remember the afterlife. Its usefulness to the conversation and establishing her mindset could be the whole reason. Hell, we still to this day don't know how Angel got out or why. I know the First took credit, but the explanation is so bland and vague that I've never really believed I'm supposed to believe it.
Oh wow I've never been this early 😍 I love these so much!!
I just thought the exact same thing. Two minutes ago! Lol now off to actually watch the video.
Angel seems to have a cut, black and white moral compass. Yes, it looks "retconny", but actually, in a later episode, he defines Holland Manners as "not qualifying" as a human, therefore, not deserving to be saved, and he shows 0 mercy for him when Darla and Drusila kills them and leave Lindsey and his associate alive, by throwing Holland's sentence back at him and locking them up.
These videos are always so enlightening, another great job
This was great. I always felt a little muddled about this arc and I’m enjoying your analysis so much. I appreciate all your hard work! I was particularly struck by your comment on Angel reclaiming his narrative. What a great observation!
Thanks Ian, another great one!
Angel flashbacks were everything to me!
This episode was sublime and one of my all time favourite episodes in both shows. It is beautifully put together and teases out the details of a previously opaque character.
this was soooo much more enjoyable because I watched you edit it. Kudos sir
1 week ago I found this video. I went back to the start and has consumed 4 years of your hardwork in that week. Great work man!
Words can't describe how happy I was when I saw the notification for this in my inbox. Thank you so much for making these!
Was about to go to sleep, and then saw you had posted this. Well, looks like I'm going to rewatch an episode or 2 of Angel, now - because you reminded me (once again) how much I love this season.
Lovely and thoughtful as always.
Soo good thank you for another episode x
The Good Place audio at the end had me rolling
I cannot possibly tell you how excited I was for this video to pop up on my feed.
Love the connection to the classic TZ episode. Great work.
One of my favorite episodes of ANGEL.
Darla, both the character and this episode, are absolutely fascinating. Kudos to Julie Benz!!!!
Great analysis and vid, Ian!!!!!
To be fair, the dialog in this episode only establishes that Angel has killed people post re-ensoulment, not necessarily that he's fed on them. Those are, at least potentially two different things
TBH the only thing that strikes me as a pretty clear cut retcon is the fact that Angelus and The Master are shown to have been antagonistic here, which is decidely not how The Master spoke of him in any of his Buffy appearances.
Angel is a show about a man who becomes. Buffy is a show about a girl who is
Julie Benz is such an amazing actress.
Fantastic episode!
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!
your videos are food for my mind
Wonderful video as always.
I love when you post!!!!! 💗🌷✨🦄⭐️
If nothing else, I like the idea that the human soul isn't damned just because they were a victim of vampirism. Angel goes to a hell dimension, but that's because of how he died (acathala portal). Religious items might react to ensouled vampires, but that's because the demon is still there inside (at least in the examples we see). It's not reacting to the soul in the body, but the demon. I think Darla not remembering going to hell has just given me peace of mind for Angel and Spike.
Also, unrelated, but in The Last Unicorn there is a time where Amalthea is turned into a human, and she says she's afraid because she can feel her body dying all around her. It reminds me of Darla feeling it happening to her, or Conner.
I just recently started watching The Good Place on Netflix ... I wish I had watched it on TV, it is actually hilarious.
Ian this not Fool for love, was the ultimate master work, of the Buffy Verse vids you have shown so far.
Thank you, & as always wish you well. Lei & CC
This is the bad place.
Welcome ye o welcome to the Hell mouth. Love Twilight Zone. Never saw the repeat of that episode tho.
I watched the series, as much as I could. I loved one particular ep. It's the end of the world, man comes out of hiding. He made a wish, of course, he gets what he wanted.
Enough time, & quiet from people, to read...
But as he gets comfortable, on the ruined steps of the city Library, his glasses smash on the concrete steps, below & he cries out...
Ridiculous premise, but we get the jist, obviously, be careful what you wish for...
Buffy & Angel are full of this addage.
But the way you pointed it out, was perfect. Hell is what you deal with, if you can't be happy with what you have. Your forever wanting something else, or more...
Hell is to Always be wanting, needing.
Un satisfied.
UnForfilled.
Nothing is perfect, yet we strive to make it so.
Hell is the ever hunger a Vampyre can't sate.
Blood is rich, & warm, metallic.
But a body, that is without, is chilled & empty.
Starving for sustenace, rabid ever thirsting,, ever hungry.
Trying to ever complete, or
Feel completed, but never finding peace, or that which soothes us.
We always want...
We always need...
The ID does define, & doesn't give merci.
It is Unrelenting, & Unquenched.
When we think of another.
When we look to assist another.
Care, about more than ourselves.
Grow in mind, & heart, but always feeding the child within.
Do we feel anything at all¿
Can't Abstaining urges to hurt anyone
A Villain
We feel for filled, & given that which others should only known, when having thought & care for other's.
Why did I save that woman¿ No reward was offered, I'm no hero.
I didn't do it for praise, or rewards, I saved her, because she needed to be saved, there was alot of you standing around, but none of you acted. Talk a great deal, but you just show off. Boast about YOU but
I felt good, Should I have felt guilty for the satisfaction in that¿
All I know is, I did what I had to. What we all should do!
All my life I been a more anti then hero.
People never bothered to know me. Or cared.
I didn't care, I just kept trying.
I still do.
It's what fills me. It's what warms my empty heart.
I just try...
Darla wanted to give in.
Give up. Angel thought, but Darla wanted to be reborne again into the Vampyre because she was sick, & like Ford from lie to me, she wanted to be saved from a fate worse then an Un death...
When Angel found that out, finally Understanding her consequence's, he tried to save her a different way.
He failed but just when Darla excepts her fate, Drusilla enters the fray, Dru is lonely & longing for the Vampyre fam she once had...🙍🏻♀️✨👁️✨ Understand we go hand, & hand, & but we walk alone in fear.
🙍🏼♀️I touch the fire, & it freezes me... This isn't real, I just want to feel.
🙍🏼♂️ I died so many years ago, but you can make me feel, like it isn't so...
William never chose to be a Vampyre, he was tricked by Dru, & the Whirlwynnd of Angelus, & his monsterous games. Till he was ensouled.
William had to protect himself & became Spike. After his bloody awful treatment, he received, when surrounded by the local Gentry, & Halfric, ah Cecily.
In Fool- The dark musical asked
Where do we go from here¿
The END?¿.. ❤️🌄❤️
Welcome to the Hellmouth, Everyone, Your guess is as good as mine. ❤️🌎❤️✨👁️✨Nov. We can make it better, growth, not Ignor-ance thoughtfulness not selfishness. UNITED STATES, NOT DiVISION, THIS IS THE BAD PLACE BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE.
BE CAREFUL PLEASE, VOTE WITH YOUR HEART THE PRESIDENT IS AN IDIOT. HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FAM. HE CONTINUES TO WAIT & HOLD THE VACCINE TILL VOTING DAZE...
JUST TO GET YOUR PRECIOUS VOTE. SERIOUSLY, WE'RE WORTH MORE THAN THAT. THANK YOU BLESSINGS SENT. UNITED WE STAND DiVIDED WE FALL...
❤️🌎❤️🤘🏻 LOVE TO YOU ALL.
i LOVEEEEE when u talk abt the Old Ones on ur channel. gives me the heebie jeeibies in the best way possible
Great video as always
Love this episode and this recap does it justice
i literally just finished the Good Place and then watched this vid haha
Dead End was what cemented Lindsey as a favorite character of mine, but this guide makes me realize how great a character he always was.
My take on Darla's hell: "nothing" is the perfect hell for someone like her. As a vampire, she's sensual, hedonistic, loves the finer things in life, and loves extreme sensations, whether they're pleasant or not.
If there are multiple, presumably personalised hells, what better hell for a hedonistic connoisseur of earthly delights than complete cessation of existence, or a black void of sheer nothing?
Has anyone else been around long enough to remember when guides were episode summaries instead of psychology dissertations lol
They've never been JUST summaries though?
The shows are just more complicated now, there's much more to say with how many episodes are behind us.
Loving the essays. Just rewatched some Angel during lockdown.Main take away was how amazing Lilah and Wesley were. How Lilah and Cordy were played by amazing actresses that should have gotten way more work.
9:03 What an incredibly unfortunate name that man has...