Scales and Gauges Part 5. O Gauge or O scale?
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- Опубликовано: 14 ноя 2022
- One of the most altered scales has always been "O" scale (0 scale). From the beginning, it was used as a track gauge only by toy train manufacturers, and O scale, 1:48, by many modelers.
O gauge and scale has been so reworked that we will need several weeks to sort it all out.
In the beginning, O gauge track was used by several companies like Lionel and Marx for their three rail toys. Not meant to be thought of a scale, they simply called these toys "O gauge". More on this in a couple of weeks!
In America many scale modelers took up the gauge and scale and many high-quality models were built to O SCALE, 1:48 scale, even though the cheated 1 1/4' gauge was off by a scale 3.5". or .08". About the width of the rail. 
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As a Lionel O gauge collector, I love this video, it explains O gauge versus O scale so well.
Thanks
YOU TWO ARE FUNNY AND INTERESTING I VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE THE BOTH OF YOU AND THE SCREWING AROUND TIME IS AWESOME GOOD AS WELL THANK YOU AGAIN
Thanks Jim!
This is a good subject matter you've explained it thoroughly well done .
Thanks!
Fuuneee, Dale and Karyn, you 2 are a barrel of laughs!
Why don't you announce upcoming railroad events ahead of time so that some of us who do live nearby can go to them before they end so we too can get into the fun and maybe even meet you 2 there too!
We should. Hard to keep “track” of them.
Hi. Thanks for new info and you guys make good videos 👍🚂🚃🚃🚃🚂🚃🚃
Thanks!!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORT AND TIME I APPRECIATE YOU BOTH AND I ENJOY THIS VIDEO JIM KAMMERER OF PHILADELPHIA 👌
Thanks again Jim!!
That's was really interesting never new their was a difference between scale and guage!
Had to watch the gauge/scale series twice, was interesting. Glad I did, didn’t catch everything the first time. Good stuff…
Thanks. It’s weird. Complicated. Fun.
Thanks for the insight on that.
I really enjoyed your impersonation of those with two differing views on the matter. 😂
Thanks for that!!!
O, for Pete's sake! Thanks for the clarification. Have a great week!
Yup that Pete.
As a purist, I'd prefer Proto:48. Proto:48 is perfect...both in scale and gauge. But, it's NOT RTR, everything has to be scratch built. So, for that reason, I'm sticking with HO scale. 😕 Thanks for the explanation! Always interesting.
Hi. Yup Proto 48 is “best” if you want to model 1/48 scale. Or model 1:45. But now narrow gauge is wrong. And structures are wrong. But the difference is so small. Easy to just say oh well. Or as you say model HO.
Cool info . Have a great week
You too!
Thanks you two
I have both Lionel 0 scale track and O-27 track. The O track is approx. 1/4 inch taller than the O-27.
Yup. The O stuff will not run on the O27. But the O27 trains will run on either.
Well we are back at the gauge scale issue LOL there must be a whole lot more about this than I'll ever know thanks for sharing a great video. 🙂Thomas over at at The Model Hobbyist
Boy it’s so complicated. So many scales and gauges.
The two most common O scales are 1/43rd as favoured by the English and 1/48th scale as used in the USA.Out here in the colony of Australia the O scalers in New South Wales use 1/43rd scale while south of the border the Victorians use 1/48 scale. The irony is that in 1:1 scale out in the real world the Victorians used a broad gauge 5 foot 3 inch rail system , while in New South Wales they used standard gauge 4 foot 8 and a half inch between the rails. Go figure that one out.
Lol!!
There are modellers who have adopted a scale of 17/64' to 1 foot to match the track gauge and there are those who changed the track gauge to 1.177" so that the tracks scales out to 4'8-1/2" - the latter refer to themselves as Proto 48.
Awesome 🚂🚋🚃🚋👍😎
Thanks
Dear Dale and Karen, love this little educational iteration into the history of origins and flaws of gauge and scale concerning the O 1:48 fraction.
What definitely makes the entire history of this scale even more complicated and interesting, is of course the continental European denomination ‘Spur 0’ which is 1:45. Not to mention the different scale fractions several manufacturers have used over time, which makes the particular scale range from 1:43,5 to 1:48.
Which, in turn makes the history of this very scale one of the most interesting narratives in the model railroading world!!
SMO Tuesday. Three rail the following Tuesday. 1:43.5 the following Tuesday. Proto 48 up next. Then on to S.
Fun video. Yup. A caboose for Christmas.
Karyn’s fav
O scale is still gauged at 5 scale feet, Proto48 would be the correction in todays world, there are scale layouts out there, very well done scale layouts that still run on 3 rails, there were technical reasons for Lione's use of 3 rails of course, but the question is, why do they still do 3 rail? The answer is easier than one might thing, even today, AC is considerably more reliable than DC when it comes to running model trains!
There is one conclusion I can make about Toy Man Television. 60% of the 72 viewers at this point of time must have a broken left mouse button (only 22 likes). 👍👍👍
To funny!!!!
Either it is broken or the user is to lazy. Love Dale’s hill Billy accent!
Pour moi le pouce il est en bas tellement c'est déplorable désolé pas envie de faire l'effort de parler anglais !!!
@@christophelecorre7902 Mais oui!
@@christophelecorre7902 Et malheureusement, mon Français est vraiment terrible! La seule fois où j’ai pu parler Français d’une manière quelconque que les gens pouvaient comprendre lequel j’étais vraiment ivre!
Well being stuck in the middle of the 0 gauge saga I found some ways to still the three rail mystery, on my layout I run 3 rail 0 scale equipment and 2'6" narrow gauge equipment that can run on gargraves tracks. So when someone asks i show them the narrow gauge a running down the track and photos of real 3 rail prototypical track. To much fun...
Yup. Three rail. But good reasons Lionel did that. And now so many are just “stuck” with it.
Good old Proto 48!!! Screwing up the normal people who don't care about an extra. 08""
So if you to want to be a true rivet counter and lay your own track and switches.
Take 1/4". Or 0.25". And divide that by 12. That's now 1 scale inch! Then multiply that by 56.5 to get the actual gauge.
Show on that coming soon
Never boring. But it doesn’t matter! Eh, I mean O. Lol
Thanks.
This video reminded me of a very intense argument between a couple of friends over N Gauge and N Scale, which is even more confusing than your O gauge/O scale issue. What is true N Scale as the ratio is 1:160 for US models, 1:150 for Japanese models and 1:148 for UK models. Hope you will throw so light on this area in the future.
That’s the plan.. as soon as we figure it out.
Interesting explaining the confusing.
For a narrow gauge layout witch gauge would match a former narrow gauge rail line of 3ft. 6in. also what engines ( both steam, & diesel ), also rolling stock passenger & freight ?
Any update on the Nevada Northern line extension ?
Hi. 3 foot 6 is tricky. 42”. In 0 scale it’s .875”. S gauge is .885”. So very close. And while S is generally thought of as American Flyer there are fine scale examples. In HO it’s .48”. The old TT scale uses a gauge of .472. Super close. But hard to find mechanisms or trucks. But it can be done. As for Nevada Northern no work yet on the new line. They are focusing on locomotives just now. But soon…
@@ToyManTelevision Thanks for reply!
S gauge my choice for building a narrow gauge layout along side my O gauge layout.
As a kid some of my school mates had S gauge American Flyer, while I stuck with Marx & Lionel.
Can you give me sources where I can obtain unpainted locomotives steam Pacific's & Mike's, also passenger / freight rolling stock. A source for decals most help full !
My plan the transition era from the Newfoundland railway to Canadian National 1949 - 1952-53.At this time steam locomotives were completly painted/ renumbered CN , but passenger / freight equipment a mix of both roads. have plenty of black/ white photos, but some color photos of passenger RS still NR colors/ #'s.
I have copies of both roads number system.
I totally agree those steamers top priority. No doubt business will BOOM when line extension completed!
Got your outdoor engines tucked in side your garage for the winter? GOT to shoot at least one video of your repaired rotary clearing the track!!!
But what scale caboose do you want for Christmas?
I sometimes say I model 305mm:1'
I have larger feet.
And because of those who insisted upon accurate GAUGE in "O" scale, thus was born "Proto 48" (?) where everything is an actual 1/4 inch equals 1 foot zero inches (1/48)
My question is; do the Proto 48 folks cheat the available "O" scale trucks and bogies to the accurate scale width some how? What is nice with "O" SCALE is you can use an architects scale to measure out scale dimensions.
The more I watch these videos the more I learn about this stuff.
We have a show coming on just that
Probably getting ahead here but the two only advantages I see three rail having are 1) it makes wiring of reverse loops a heck of a lot easier and 2) accessories can be activated electrically instead of needing sensors to know when a train passes. But 3 rail track looks so unrealistic. Super O looks better but that center rail sometimes tended to dig into the pickup roller on engines.
I admit to having used the terms O Scale and O Guage interchangeably, picking it up from my dad as we ad a Lionel layout in the basement. When I was in high school, he moved to Garden Railroading and we started using G Guage and G Scale interchangeably. Don't even get me started on LGB being 1:22.5, Lionel at 1:24, USA at 1:29 and MTH at 1:32.
So much to say about G!! Or #1 gauge. Why 1:29? Why 1/2”? Why 1:32? Or so much there.
Have you done a video on OO scale?
Not yet… soon!
So would my On30 be O scale narrow gauge
Yup. 1:48 scale. 30” gauge. Only issue is most of the 30” models are based on 36” prototypes. But there were some 30” railroads. So it is accurate for those.
I hope there's not a test after all these shows
Yup. For credit.
NYC subway has a 3rd rail for the power supply
Many subways/metros/underground have a third rail. Having overhead wires in tight tunnels is problematic.
The London Underground uses a four rail system. This comes from having cast iron tunnel linings on some of the oldest parts. The running rails are not part of the electrical circuit as they are not sufficiently isolated from the metal tube.
And a few of the street rail roads used a center rail as the third rail. The third rail had to be recessed into the pavement so that no one could touch it! But this was much easier than having a third rail off to the side which of course would be impossible on a street rail Road. The most famous of the systems was the trolley system in Washington DC
What is the gauge of proto48?
Anybody
Well that’s about 4 weeks off. We will show a great Proto 48 layout. The gauge is 1.177”.
Well scale varies within O gsuge as well. There 'scale' which is 1/48th, then there's semi-scale which is whatever. There's O 36 and O 32. So the trains are undersized, and the 36 and 32 refer to the diameter of the curves they can navigate. Lionel's Lionmaster is O 36, their Lionchief series tends to be O 32. There that makes things much clearer. As for 3 rails, it exists in real life all over the place. Subways tend to use a third rail, as does the Eurostar in England where they didn't want to put up catenaries. In England they pantograph drops and a shoe under the train drops down to connect to the third rail.
but isn't the third (electrified) rail usually on the outside of the rails the wheels run on, and not centered between them? I seem to remember this on the subway in Washington DC. The third rail ran on the side opposite the platform to minimize the chance of electro-frying any waiting passengers. The flip flopping of the third rail meant it wasn't always on the same side thus the locomotives needed two pickup shoes.
@@davidwayneprins I'm sure it is, I've never seen a third rail down the center. That being said I've never seen a steam engine that was run on electricity. 3 rail systems actually have way more advantages than drwabacks. Primary is the ability to make a reversing loop. Try that with a 2 rail system and see how much fun it is.
Hi. But in a few cases it was in the center. We will show one a week from tomorrow. Washington DC. Some of the track is still in! We saw some in Georgetown. The center rail is just below the street to keep people from being electrocuted. Not sure if that was ever a problem but under the right circumstances the voltage would be at street level! Only if it malfunctioned. But…
Oddly we’ve seen both. The world is weird.
Wouldn’t modeling in 17/64 inch to the foot scale make
O-gauge just about right?
Yup. Next Tuesday.
Well… yup. Tuesdays show…
So it's O Scaugel?
??
@@ToyManTelevision EXACTLY!!!🙃
You need to write an manual with dinky little illustrations!
😳
Hi. Thanks
Could you give me all that in millimeters?!!!!!! ;-)
1435mm
What was 027 trains of Lionel? My dad told my brother and I that we had an 027.
A week from Tuesday. BUT it’s three rail Lionel but smaller trains. Just a bit. Often called “sports models”. The key is the track has tight 27” curves and the smaller locomotives can navigate those.