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Scales and Gauges Part 6, O Scale, Q Scale, SMO Scale and 7mm Scale
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- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2022
- One of the most altered scales has always been "O" scale (0 scale). Because the gauge was cheated to five feet at 1:48 scale, many serious modelers wanted to alter the gauge to a proper 4' 8.5"
In America many scale modelers took up the gauge and scale and many high-quality models were built to O SCALE, 1:48 scale, even though the cheated 1 1/4' gauge was off by a scale 3.5". or .08". About the width of the rail. Some altered the gauge to a 1:48 scale 4' 8.5", a scale and gauge called Proto 48. More on that later!
In Europe, this cheat was also thought of as a problem but rather than alter the gauge, they changed the scale to 1:45 to improve the situation. Originally called Q scale (the Q being a modified O), this scale was later renamed SMO, for Scale Modified O.
Then in France and Italy, the scale was further modified to1:43.5 or 7mm scale, or 7mm to the foot. This now makes the gauge too narrow! So why did that do that? Well... that's another story. But it is actually a great idea. Well.. Sort of.... BUT teaser: it explains why 1:29 has been used in large-scale garden railroads...
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The Imperial system will never go away --
It's actually Samarian Standard system that is based on 3.14 or PI
(( the radius of a circle )) were every number is divisible by 6 , which is in corspodance of being able to use the system for the rotation of earth using the stars to measure , seasons , how many days in each month , years .....
The ancient Samarians used PI to calculate the circumference of earth within a.few miles , the speed of light , rotation of earth for seasonal crops planting and harvesting , time (( hours , minutes , seconds )) (( LONGITUDINAL MEASUTEMENTS )) DEGREES, MINUTES, SECOND,, which A. Einstein used that system (( NOT METRICS )) but SAMARIAN STANDARD to come up with both of his theories GENERAL and SPECIAL RELATIVITY--------
SORRY METRIC LIKERS BUT IN MATHAMATICAL PHYSICS --- ONLY SAMARIAN STARNDARD WORKS ---
12 INCHES TO A FOOT , 5280 feet to a mile , 186,000 miles to a second for the speed of light --- just for starters -----
Mathamatical Physics is the law of the Universe , and it's laws are Samarian Standard system of Math , inches , feet , pints , gallon, which are the laws of the universe through A. Einstein theories of SPACE TIME
Wow!!! I know the Greeks loved the number 5. And by association 10. I assume it started with the fact we have 5 fingers. Easy to count on your fingers. Then plants often have 5 leafs per group. 5 points on a leaf. Anyway the Arabic 10 base (and Roman 5 based numbers) are the global standard. And so the metric system ties neatly into that. But yes, the Sumerian is best for physics. Interesting that the Greeks were so fascinated with the number five, they developed geometry based on it, and found mystical qualities in the pentagon. And the pentagram. Later masons adopted this fascination with the five pointed star. A fascination which continues to this day. There’s a reason why the stars on the American flag are five pointed stars with one point facing upward. That star is on every military vehicle. Every aircraft. The seat of military power is the pentagon. Invert that star so that one of the points is facing downward, and it’s considered to be the symbol of Satan. But the American revolution was guided by masons. Most notably George Washington. I’ve often wondered if they could have ever talked about splitting off from the king if they had not had the safe space of the Masonic Temple to “talk treason” where the rule was “what you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here, leave it here”. Secret hand shakes, secret symbols. But the “mystical” five pointed star. Anyway interesting.
Watching this episode about SMO and Q scales has left my head spinning outta control!!! I'm dizzy! 🥴 🤪 To get the gist of what you're saying, I'd have the watch this episode over and over again. 🤪 I'm gonna have some aspirin with me when I do. 🥴
Watch with open eyes, open ears, and an open mind.. and yes, a bit of aspirin on board.
Karyn cracking up makes my day, Karyn cracking Dale up is internet gold
Great video guys
Rick B
Yup. Geeeeezzz
During my membership in the “Long Island O Gauge Society” in NY, we ran 2 rail O Scale equipment. And if a visitor had arrived with a scale rule to measure our equipment, he or she would probably have been shown the door. I do remember reading about several guys using what I think I remember as Q scale, 1/4 inch scale with true gauge wheels and track. (?)
I left a my local HO club because of a rivet counter contingent.
Hi!! I’m thinking they were “AAR Fine Scale”. Later known as “Proto 48”. Three shows from now. To each their own. But these guys could NEVER be part of a club. But what amazing modeling. But their trains won’t fit any standard track.
@@ToyManTelevision Some of the same good were involved in the local South Oregon Coast Railway Historical society. That is another story.
Good information . thank you . Have a great week
Thanks!!!!
I found a 1946 Lionel O' scale steel truss bridge at a recent swap meet. And the gentleman still had the original box. It was grey and had some spots of rust here and there. I paid $18 for it (the box is probably worth more). I took it home, cleaned it up and salt weathered it and painted it to look like a truss bridge from the 1930's . I'd love to email you guys some pics. So let me know.
Messager from Facebook. Dale angell.
Sorry I don't have Facebook. But that's ok.
Very interesting, but, confusing. I just enjoy trains. Very informative.
Thanks. Very confusing. But interesting.
I think to explain how we arrived at the jumble of scales it is best to start at the beginning:
it is well known that mass-produced toy trains were first produced in Nurenberg from the 1880s. As they evolved into more realistic models, it became important to specify and standardise on a set of dimensions.
The first German trains seem to have aimed at 1/45, which they still use today.
A principle export market was the UK, where the prototype is smaller; to enable the use of standard mechanisms, the scale was increased to 1/43.5 from about 1910, previously 1/48 being used. before it became apparent that making loco bodies slightly larger enabled continental mechs to be employed.
American prototypes are larger still, so 1/48 was retained for that market, again becoming the standard used to this day. 1/48 is a convenient Imperial scale, being 1/4" to the foot, of course.
You can probably tell that I'm from the Uk...
All true. The 00 standard over the HO standard for this reason. But 1:43.5. Oh there is genius in that… watch next Tuesday’s show. The necessary connection between HO and 1:43.5.
@@ToyManTelevision ||||||Yes - why didn't Marklin choose 16mm gauge and 1/90 scale|?
Can't wait for you to get o to HO, OO, EM and P4.
The mind boggles. Then spins.
Next you should demonstrate all the scales that run on G gauge track.
Coming soon!!
One night, about a month ago, I could not sleep, so I started to try to figure out the related (foot and inch scale) to the fractional. while going through a bunch of stuff at various web sites, I stumbled upon a listing based upon ACTUAL track gauge. The listing they showed for the slightly bigger than REAL scale "O" SCALE, (your little wider track) SCALED out to be a few thousands bigger than 1/47. So Even though your 4-4-0 locos are 24:3.3 the track is 1/47, depending upon rolling stock, I suppose it's different.
The confusion is endless due to the different approaches between European and American MEASURE. So we, Americans, to stop the head aches just use the 5 foot wide track, call it 4 Ft. 8 1/2 and run with it. But then again there's the Proto 48 folks, Oh Well. For some strange reason, I find this stuff most interesting, I guess I'm nuts.
These videos continue to bring new info, SMO scale? Today is the first time I've ever heard of it. Keep up the great work. ;-)
I'm going with Proto:48! 🤪🥴
Next Tuesday we try to help explain the odd European scales. It’s the 1:43.5 that really jumps out. And we figured out why…
The seven millimeters are used in Great Britain because at the time the smallest motor was to big to fit inside of the models of the british locomotives so they had to fudge it's just a little to get the motors in to the locomotives.
True for HO vs OO. But well… watch Tuesday.
The track gauge is fairly understandable, different track width for different purposes. A marine railway may have a gauge of 10 ft while something used in a mine or a cannery may only be 18 in.
The different scales used on model railroads is mind numbing. Because I've done mechanical drawings and drafting I understand standard scales... but all these different scales seem to be minutiae to the hobby that drives people crazy... I will agree for some it's nothing more than stepping off the back porch! Many know I'm one of them.
Hi again. Yup mind blowing. Worse than Los Angeles freeways. Take the OO scale to the 7mm scale over to the junction with HO and then stay on that to the On30. Now your in Burbank.
@@ToyManTelevision I've never been to L.A. so I'll take your word for it. ;-)
Does everybody known I have a question please somebody is the 7mm o scale gauge from the UK are the same size and do they fit 2-rail o scale Gauge track in the US like from Atlas 2-rail o scale gauge track yes or no please somebody answer
Haha! Episode 6 and counting! If you would completely explain the scale swamp: how many episodes would you need? 12? 25?
I’m beginning to wonder if we will hit 100!
Wow! And I thought the Proto 48 folks were screwy!!
I've never heard of the SMO.
And I have a Rivorosi "O scale" Genoa and Reno!!
I have heard of Q scale.
In O or HO? Watch next Tuesday! Explains 1/43.5 as well as 1/29!!
@@ToyManTelevision my Genoa and Reno are in O scale, they ran reasonably well, but don't now
BTW, I'm not doing them in order. I guess it will be close enough.
Yup. As long as it fun it’s perfect.
I do not know why you mention that the RivaRossi Genoa locomotive is 1:45. It is 1/4 Inch scale (it says so on the box) which is 1:48. Your mentioning of Q scale is also not correct. Q scale is using 1.177" (30 mm) track gauge for 1:48 scale. You can read it all in the e-book I wrote on Gauge and Scale.
How much of a difference in apperance would it be noticable if I were to mixed 1/48 1/50 and 1/43 scale model trains together
Virtually none. Well, let’s say little. The same engine side by side and yes.. big difference. But just in a “mixed” train.. not that noticeable
Rivarossi ATSF engine is a German/Prussian tank locomotive
Thanks!!!! Knew it was European. I was told Italian. But good to know!! Thanks.
I have a question Is the 7mm the same size as standard gauge o scale do they fit with 2-rail track like from Atlas from America and peco from uk is a yes or no
Not sure. But that’s also an AC system. I’d add a rectifier bridge and a resister.
Wow! And here I was just concerned with what will go with my 027 and it turns out there is so many other "O" "scales"!!
Oh that’s in two weeks!! Stay tuned!!
@@ToyManTelevision That's great! I have been watching every one of them!
It has confused me for a long time. If HO is Half "O" scale and O Scale was 1/48 then HO is 1/96. But it has always been 1/87. I think I see how this came about. Unless you are going to change everything up in another installment. 🙂
Yup. 00 is half the scale and gauge. So 1:96 scale and 16.5mm gauge. (.65”) So still 5’ gauge. HO is the same GAUGE but 1:87 to correct the scale gauge to 4’8 1/2”!
7mm to the foot scale is still twice as big as 3.5mm to the foot, HO scale!
Yup. Almost twice as large
would it be possible to do a file on gages compared to modal to be able to use them together
Keep watching. More on this.
It’s all as clear as mud. Lol
I like mud.. usually. Don’t like walking in it. Or driving in it. But using it on the railroad.
Maybe they need to make the tracks wider OR narrower.🚂🚂🚂🚂😱
Wait 3 more weeks. We do just that!!
just build a live steam locomotive in 7.5 and you're all set
“;-)”awsum!!!!!!!!!🚂👍
Fun!!! Thanks!!
7mm to the foot....😁
7mm isn't French at all. I never read about 7mm in French magazines, but only about Zero. Yes, we also do 1/43.5 (or in French 1/43,5) like the British 7mm, but we don't have any idea what a foot is. I don't know why we have the same scale as UK and different from the rest of Europe (1/45), but maybe it was because Märklin was strong at the start of 20th century with scale I and 0, which seems to have already been 1/45. With all the strong anti-Germanic feelings in France before WWI (and after 1870-1871 war), and with the allied being UK, French modellers may have choose 1/43.5 instead of 1/45. And if H0 (Half Zero) is 1/87, 0 can only be 1/43.5.
The division remains to this day, Lenz is making models at 1/45, but anything for Zero in France is at 1/43.5 scale.
Well… The first model car made exactly to 1:43 scale seems to be French Dinky Toys No. 24R Peugeot. However Rivarossi started using the scale for trains at about the same. The reason is US HO scale models. Anyway the rest of the story next Tuesday. Take a look!!
@@ToyManTelevision Dinky Toys, like its parent company Meccano, were British. Meccano put its headquarter in France quite early, but the British scale of 1/43.5 (or 1/43 for cars) was already set. Fully French companies like Norev and Solido needed to follow the 1/43 boom.
As a child in the 80s, Dinky Toys was unknown (I have a few from my father), but the thing was Majorette cars, which were at 1/65 scale (something a bit more logical in metric). Solido (1/43) were more expansive (for collecting, not playing), and Norev out of reach.
@@pbyfr wow thanks! The driver behind all this was the American HO market. Oddly. The people who SEEM to have come up with the scale were Rivarossi. They were making almost all the HO and some OO molds in most of the markets. But definitely America. (The molds were finished in Germany). Anyway not only were they making their own American locomotives (AHM) but Athern and Tyco. No matter. They wanted to offer all of the AHM as both HO and O. But the easiest way was to offer the O scale in 1:43.5. They did this with a bunch of early models but the two rail O market vanished. But the 1:43 scale lived on. 7mm.
All of these scales are getting heavy! “It’s French”…?🚂🚂🚂🚂🚂
Well… Italian it turns out. No matter. Dang good reasons why it turns out.
😳
🚀🚂
Aaaaaagh! I do understand, but.....
Yup. But…. Well..
I failed math!
Not me!! I got a D.
@@ToyManTelevision I got the ole F!
Confusing YES !!
I n Canada in the late 1970's changed from imperial to metric measurement system.
The BIGGEST RIP OFF EVER!!! PAY MORE FOR LESS 1!!
Example lumber 2in.x 4in studs . Metric dimensions smaller side by side.
BEST Example filling British imperial gallon gas can. It two extra liters to fill to capacity!!!
The worst is Celsius. Normal daytime temperature in our climate ranges from -7° to about 39°. Really?? Instead of 0° to 100°? What idiot changed that?
@@ToyManTelevision Still use Imperial for temperature!
It was prime minister Pireauu Truedeau who done it. His son Jusitiean current prime minister
I was for years was a production clerk at a meat packing plant. Had to learn the change over.
Still remember the pound to kg conversion , & viceverisa.
1 pound eaquals 2.2 kg's. 1 kg equels .453632 pounds.
All this talk about minute differences of scale and gauge just gives me a headache. HO is 3.5 mm gauge and O scale is kinda where Lionel trains are located- close enough. All the rest of those scales and gauges are just for “rivet counters and obsessive perfectionists.” The end.
Well fun is fun. To each their own.