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Scales and Gauges Part 11 European O Scale
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- Опубликовано: 26 дек 2022
- Well just when you thought that American O scale was confusing we dive into the deep end... European O scales and gauges.
Just as the US has the NMRA
Europe has MOROP European Federation of National Model Railway Associations and the NEM 010 standards:
So O followed by:
• no letter = standard gauge (prototype: 1,250-1,700 mm or 49.2-66.9 in)
• m = metre gauge (prototype: 850-1,250 mm or 33.5-49.2 in)
• e = narrow gauge (prototype: 650-850 mm or 25.6-33.5 in)
• i = industrial (prototype: 400-650 mm or 15.7-25.6 in)
• p = park railway (prototype: 300-400 mm or 11.8-15.7 in)
Moreover, in the beginning, the Europeans favored adjusting scale instead of gauge…
1:45 scale
1:43.5 scale
Some of the scales:
O 16.5
Same as On30 except:
HO track (16.5mm) BUT at 1:43.5 scale
O Scale 1:48 scale (1/4” to the foot)
Of France 1:43.5 Scale or 7mm scale
Q or SMO 1:45 scale
Scale 7 Brittan (7mm to the foot) 33mm gauge 1.3”.
ScaleSeven Group - Sort of British Proto48
For 43.5 scale. 1435mm gauge. 56.5” Standard gauge of 4’81/2”
2 Foot gauge:
O14
14mm gauge. (0.55”) Accurate 2’ gauge in 1:43.5 (7mm to the foot) 609mm or 2’
O12 also 1:43.5 scale 12mm (0.47”) TT gauge for 2’ gauge (2.045’)
Oe
Narrow gauge.
16.5mm track (HO)
For modeling:
German 750 mm gauge (2’5.5”) 25.4mm too narrow or 0.500 microns in scale
Austrian 760mm gauge (2’5 15/16”) 1.57mm too narrow or 250 microns in scale
Switzerland 8S0mm rack (2’7 ½”) 38.1mm too wide or 1.8mm in scale
On42.
42 inch gauge.
Australia .875” gauge 7/8” or S gauge track Exact scale and gauge
Often cheated with HO track. On 30
Om.
(On22.5)
Meter gauge
Problem is O at 1:43.5 (France) and 1:45 scale in Germany and most of Europe. So which scale?
Oj
Japan 3’ 6’ gauge 12.7mm gauge
Are we confused yet?
Dear Karyn and Dale, loved this explanation on European O-scale. Missed the 0-spur though, oh scaled gauged pun! Such a wonderful world of scales and gauges. Thanks for all your magnificent content this year. Happy 2023, that the journey of scales and gauges may travel the main and branch lines of confusion, put right, of course and on point!!
Oh spur…
Thank you learned a lot . Happy New Year to you and yours
Merry holidays right back!!
OH my aching head. Just when you settled all the confusion, (last week) you come back with this. OK, I'll just leave the rest of the world out, (no racism here) and stick to the good old American stuff. Please excuse any errors, My computer crashed the other day (I lost everything) and now I'm learning to deal with Windows 11.
Great video Dale Happy New Year. ;-)
Windows 11. Omg. Hum…..Omg… yet another European O scale…. And Windows 11 as bad as O43.5i 25mm gauge.
well, at least I'm computer educated enough to be able to adjust. I just have to figure it all out, over time.@@ToyManTelevision
That's an interesting video format. I don't recall any other videos where you guys didn't appear and there were only stills - I binged them all the way while back some time ago.
Of course you really covered a LOT of ground there. Amazing how many different scales Europe has had. Of course manufacturing efficiencies (the need for speed & price point) put an end to a lot of those. But they're neat to see.
Christmas. We were so busy with cooking and trees and lights and… well Christmas. Didn’t get out to the shop all week. So punch and edit software and Google!!
To help muddy the water just a little bit more, I believe there is a meter gauge railroad that goes around the base of Mount Aetna in Sicily - the Circum Aetnea Railroad.
The narrow gauge railways in Italy have mostly 950 mm tracks.😊
@@railfilm always confusing.
@@ToyManTelevision
Like a real life.
For many producers for ex the japanese 1067mm gauge is the standard one ( in H0 or N) while the real standard gauge Shinkansen etc on 1435mm should be a broad gauge, but it is not. Both trains in model run on the same tracks 😀🤣.
Those scales in model are really extremely confusing, it is just for some kind of orientation but not for the real engineering. Look on many wheels, you find a very narrow fine scale wheels with minimal flanges, while on the another model in the same scale, the wheels are like on a road roller with extreme flange.
In the same time in the given reduction scale we use different scales for distances ( eg distance between yards) and again different scale for time etc. We want to have exact scale models ( long cars and locomotives with correct speed reduction) but on the layout our tracks are usually reduced miniatures of an old fashion street car network. ( tight curves, steep turnouts etc ).🤣😀
One of the reasons I prefer 3’ gauge is it’s less confusing. Or is it? On my railroad I have 45mm track. (1 3/4 inches”). But while most of my trains are F scale, 1/20.3 scale and therefore 3 foot gauge, some are 1/22.5 scale and therefore meter gauge. Only one prototype is of a meter gauge locomotive. The others are 3 foot gauge prototype. Some are 1/32 scale and therefore 5 foot gauge but the prototypes are 4 feet 8.5 inches. I have one locomotive scaled at 1/29 scale and therefore 50.75 inches or 4 feet 2.75 inches for a prototype that’s 4 feet 8.5 inches. And I have a large number of 1/2 inch scale, 1/24 scale that gauge to 42 inches for prototypes that were 36 inches. Sigh. Well my 1:20.3 F scale are all very accurate at least.
Ps. I saw a magnificent Japanese layout at a train show. They had two gauges in 1:87 scale. No idea what the prototype was. But some of the trains looked like Schinkansen.
At the 7 min mark, that's Puffing Billy, one of a few Na class. When I lived down there they went past my backyard. It was up an incline so I had time to leave the house and wave as it puffs past. I did 2mm scale back then, 1/152. Narrow gauge of course.
A treasure. About the only reason I’d go down under. Well it’s grand… but a dam far swim. Still though… ain’t that a great little train?
@@ToyManTelevision It sure is a great train system, they had 4 Na class locos last time I checked, got lots of pics of them. Used to got to the Narrow Gauge conventions, then got married, family etc. Now looking at retirement. Catching up on yt and found you guys. Very inspiring ch thanks.
Well with the holidays drawing to an end hopefully I can get back to watching videos and making videos as well. I know I've been slipping on both accounts anyway thanks for this video it has been helpful. 🙂Thomas over at The Model Hobbyist
Thank you!!!!!
Great photos! Love those little European trains!
Me too!
Never heard of On42 or Oj, but I only saw On30 in Japan. Even at the Tenshodo shop, no O scale aside the On30 (well, "HO" is already a luxurious scale in Japan, because of the place it take, most people do "N" scale, every scales quoted as they change the scale to use the same track for normal (shinkansen) en Cap gauge (everything else).
Meter gauge (voie métrique) as following in France, maybe even more popular than all other narrower gauges together. That's because we had, in some regions, big railways in meter gauge: after WWI, the affected regions needed to rebuild quickly and cheaply the railway, but the trench railway (600mm) was too light, so meter gauge was used. Then other places without railway followed with all the cheaper equipment. Now, the only real lines are in Corsica, where all the railway is in meter gauge.
I loved, even lived on TEE trains when I was in school in Saint-Germain-en-Laye. Beautiful place. I got on a train every weekend and headed to… wherever. Saw so many beautiful places.
Whoa can it get even more confusing then we are how? Not sure if part 12 to this but will try to stop my brain from exploding before next Tuesday. 🤕
GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖
Stay happy. Merry Christmas.
In case anyone wonderss. Thumbnail from the Efteling Theme park. Who run narrow gauge steam locomotives that are over 100 years old.
The locomotive in the thumbnail is called ''Aagje'' and she's from 1911.
Really want to go there.
This just a subject that has so many in’s and out’s. You can’t tell if you are coming or going. Maybe the take away is model in what you like best. Enjoy your hobby and be the giant of your personal railroad empire. Happy New Year.
Hi Ken. Yup. As much as I love 1:20.3 for it’s accuracy I’m a fool for 1/24 scale. Not accurate to anything. But a perfect size. Fun to operate. So nuts the the screws. And rivets. Fun is as fun is.
Dale & Karen that sure is a lot of research! I model European HO scale, mostly German, Austrian, Swiss and have some HOe which is either N gauge or dedicated HOe track (wider ties) both 9mm gauge or 750mm proto. I have trams( both gauges) also,"Strassenbahn" or street railway in german. In New Zealand our national gauge is 3'6" or 1067mm same as Queensland, some Tasmania Australia, Japan, South Africa and where else? Modelers here use HO track for N.Z outline 1:64 scale and G gauge for 1:24 scale (almost perfect)
Hum….. I’m confused. So 1/2”. And G gauge? So …. Oh I see. So 42” gauge!!! I have a lot of half inch scale equipment that is gauged to number one Gage, therefore 42 inch gauge, but it’s inaccurate as it’s all 36 inch Colorado prototype. Sure… 42” prototypes!!
@@ToyManTelevision Yes the 42' gauge is 16.67mm in 1:64 (close) and G gauge being 45mm, well the 42" gauge is 44.45mm in 1:24 (close)... easier to divide the 1067 by scale to keep it all metric.
Good going the puns are back. LOL How do you weigh the puns on a scale. My Bad. You two are so much fun to watch and listen to. I really enjoy every one of your videos. I hope you had a great and Blessed Christmas and have a Happy New Year. PLEASE keep the great videos coming.
Thanks!!! We have been soooo busy with Christmas. Having a great time is a lot of work. Anyway we are moving on to 1 gauge on Tuesday and a fun HO layout Sunday. Totally under construction. So you can see the bones and how a layout is built.
I think you would be mighty impressed with Swiss narrow gauge, you could spend weeks travelling all the lines!
Oh boy do we wanna!! I did back in 1972. It was so fun!! Winter though so I want to go in summer this time.
Omg if you ever get to Britain you'll have to go see the light railways of Britain, Romney, Hythe, & Dymchurch or Ravenglass & Escadale, or Cleethorps! All really cool 15in gauge railways
Oh so on our bucket list….
Would the 1/43.5 scale popularity in Europe contribute to the fact that there are many 1/43rd scale die cast automobiles available?
no
Well, let’s go with both yes and no. If you watch that video that I have linked to in the film that explains how 1/43.5 originated. It was a rather clever idea, but as I understand, it was originated by Rivarossi. Well Arnoldo Pocher under contract to Rivarossi. Anyway they did their pattern work in 1:29 scale. To make HO models in 1/87 scale. So everything had to be a multiple of 29. So they changed 1:45 to 1:43.5. And as these models were very popular 1:43.5 became a common scale. I’m assuming that the old die casts were also patterned in 1:29 and so here again they end up at 1:43.5. Today with CAD and CNC they can be any size as no one makes pattern models anymore. But 43.5 is now the standard size for smaller die casts.
Now, if you can just get the lid back on that can of worms.......! ;-)
Lol
Can’t. The monkeys ate them and then hid in their barrel.
Thanks
Thank you 🙏
You forgot about 16mm scale that is live stream! On O gauge track. This is what is very popular in Britain for outdoor garden railroads. And is what the company Roundhouse makes
Well not really… it’s not O scale. It’s 16mm large scale on O gauge track. So we are going to cover that with larger scales. As it’s 1:20.3 scale we will add that to gauge one!
@@ToyManTelevision 16mm scale is 1:19 lol
1:20.3 is 15mm scale.
Whose idea was in anyway to mix units???
That really proves that we are all nuts!!
My 2 cents worth.
How about On0 monorail? O no. Or no way!
Hope you guys had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year.
One track mind. Or one rail..
The standard gauges of National Railways of Japan and South Africa Railways(Cape Gauge) is 42 inches. There are other countries which use 42 inches for track gauge. The high speed trains of Japan are 4' 8.5" gauge for better stability at speed. Some of the colleries in South Africa are also 4' 8.5" gauge.
I think that is why 5" gauge is used for 1 inch scale in UK. Wierd. The actual gauge for 1.5 in/ft scale is 7 1/16" instead of using 7.5" or 7.25"; for practicality, a gauge of 7" would have been better to use(1/16" too narrow).
5” has stuck. 4.75 was used.. but 5” won out. Same with 7.5”. While it looked like 7.25 would take over it mostly died. As yo say.. none are correct anyway. But 7.25 is much closer. But just didn’t really overcome 7.5.
and h
HO is 3.5mm to the foot , so 7mm should be 0
Correct. HO was scaled to make the gauge a correct 4’8.5”. O gauge was set originally to 1.25”. So 5 feet. But the scale was increased to 1:43.5 to make the gauge correct and therefore correct relative to HO.
MEGO-(mine eyes glaazeth over)
Me too. Every Christmas.
I’ve noticed that a lot of model railroad enthusiasts think like a mechanical engineer. What do mechanical engineers easily do??? Overthink things and make them more complicated than necessary. Especially the Germans. I’m not trying to offend anyone as I’m part German, Irish, English, Dutch, French, Italian, African American etc etc.
Well it cuts both ways. Well if you cut a sharp edge on both sides. One side smooth. The other serrated. Or possibly that side should be scalloped…. I think what I’ll do is build a test jig. Then we can lock down this serrated or scalloped issue. Of course, first we need to consider the alloy to build the knife out of. But I’m certain we can get a knife that will cut both ways. So I suppose the argument cuts both ways. There are cars that are over engineered their cars that are under engineered in right in the middle is one that is just right has Goldie locks said.
@@ToyManTelevision
And I can overthink things into infinity, especially when I have sugar in my diet.
Bro, there is an electric train from Knotts Berry Farm for sale in my city. Comes with 200 ft of track. The whole thing needs refurbishing. I’m really thinking about it… could put a gas motor on it and run it around my 20 acres…
Wow!!!’ If you do love to see photos
@@ToyManTelevision I’m tryin, I threw a lowball offer… it’s gonna need a lot of work…
Does this mean the next railroad you will build will be a European type railroad? 🤔
Well….. in a way… colorado narrow gauge is popular in the Netherlands!
I’m still confused with the Brit’s 00 scale. Is it somewhat 0 or HO? What a mess.
Well it’s HO. Sort of. When they halved O, 1:48 scale 1 1/4” gauge. So in America we fixed the wrong gauge problem. The half gauge would be .625” 16.5mm. In America we set the scale at 1:87 so the gauge would be 4’81/2”. In Britain they went with 4mm to the foot. Why? Who knows but it makes the OO trains a bit bigger. Same gauge. Different everything else.
@@ToyManTelevision thank you
There is a lot of beautiful and unique railroad equipment out there to model... but all this gauges and scales that are used is as confusing as the IRS tax code!
I feel sorry for the poor bugger that has to do the working drawing for the model maker to make the patterns! Heaven help the poor guy who mixes up the drawings or if the drawings got scattered about the shop space.
All this is interesting and I do understand the thinking behind it for the diehard scale fan... but damn I feel sorry for people that are not use to working with scale and scale drawings, they would get lost in no time. There has to be some no a bunch of engineers involved in here someplace because it's so complex and convoluted!
There was a day… but now everything is CAD in full size. 12 inches to the foot. Or 1000mm to the meter. Modern printouts are generally 1:10 scale. But just tell the computer to cut the molds to whatever scale you want. Or the 3D printer.
@@ToyManTelevision yes most everything is now CAD but someone still needs to make the shop drawings so it can be put it into the CAD software so it can be turned into CNC code. I've had to make those shop drawing so the CAD people could make the CAD drawings.
I guess I'm blessed because I've done so much in manufacturing and fabrication. You know part of the engineering staff thinks you're a valuable asset when the manufacturing engineer asks you for input on a design
At 7:13 you show a green Bagnall tank locomotive and say it's 30 inch gauge, i.e. 2'6" gauge. This is not correct. The locomotive is a former Rustenberg Platinum Mines locomotive from South Africa and is two foot gauge. Search 'Gelert' at the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway in Porthmadog or 'Isaac' at the Statfold Barn Railway.
Hum.. I found it online listed as 30 inch…. Oops.
I’m trying to gauge where you recorded this lash up. Maybe still in bed?🚂🚂🚂🚂
Christmas. Shopping. Food. Family. Shooting? Nope. So we built this in the office. Well… edit room… spare bedroom.