Yes I did watch the entire video. Thank you brother! Yes it answered a whole slew of questions and simultaneously created a bunch more. Which I am sure that it is supposed to do if one wants to become more knowledgeable at all of this. Knowing how much is involved when producing a video, I want you to know that I truly appreciate the time you took out of your day(s) to get it out. Charlie Mike!
Mike, that was an accurate assessment of Powder coat Vs, Traditional lubing. I believe the two points you focused on were Cost and need, need has two points to it, what kind of shooting are you doing? Cleanliness, some indoor ranges do not allow plain led bullets and as you described, if you shoot with a suppressor, the handling of the bullets, also waxy build up in the seating die. I also believe that people who are just starting out powder coating is a way of producing bullets for practice at an affordable price, my recommendation is to get instruction on marksmanship along with that (Books, or from people who are in the know)if you want to get better results. those powder coated bullets properly loaded will outshoot 80% of the pistol shooting community. they cast a wide net reducing cost in equipment needed to process bullets lubing them over the lube sizer method. One thing you brought up, drying time, I use Rooster Jacket as a sealant for the same reason, long term storage and the coating will prohibit oxidation over time, However, I feel this is a packaging thing and not part of my process of making them. expense is the key reason to powder coat and that gets more people shooting as an affordable fun sport. I give you an A+ on the subject matter you covered. -Dave
i know im asking the wrong place but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an instagram account..? I stupidly lost the login password. I love any help you can offer me
@Asa Johnny Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and im in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
best vid I've see in a while. .....your spot on with all info......your correct, running soft alloy, then PC..... does improve performance, very well done, great job!
One other reason...you can use the colors to "label" you ammo. (i.e. Use Black PC for all your subsonic ammo and other colors for your sonic loads). Great video Taco !!!
Great overview, Taco. I've tumble lubed with 45-45-10, powder coated and lubrisized with my Lyman 4500. For me, lubrisizing is the fastest method because sizing and lubing occur at the same time. As you point out, they are separate processes with the other two methods. I also find that bullet diameters are more consistent with lubrisizer bullet sizing dies compared to the Lee and NOE push through methods. To each his own, though 👍👍👍
Great informative video Mike. One thing I don't think you mentioned unless I missed it, my favorite part of grooveless molds... The bullets drop from the molds so much easier!
oh yeah! casting with grooveless molds is so much easier. I love casting with the grooveless molds--they just jump out of the mold with minimal effort.
Very informative vid. I like to powder coat because you can test the bullets like copper plated bullets plus the piece of mind that it will protect me way more from lead that traditionally lube.
Thanks for this video. I cast and lubed bullets using both lubes, but once tried shooting powder coated bullet, would never use my stinky, messy Alox lube. What convinced me was when I chronographed the powder coated bullets, in comparison to the copper jacketed were 115fps to 165fps faster in velocity, same exact powder charge, seating length etc.Powder coated bullets leave zero deposits in my barrel, translating to me less friction and harder material, supported by the increased velocities, equaling less barrel wear. Your video hit the nail on the head for the hardness and alloy content, once powder coated! Initially for experimentation, I cast bullets with pure mag wheel weights soft lead I use for my black powder. I drop my castings from the mold directly into cold water, chill hardening, also again right out of the oven when powder coated. I did a "Smash" test on a 45 200gr swc bullet and broke the outer housing on my Snap-On ball peen hammer, barely flattening the bullet after 3 solid direct strikes on an anvil where the bullet was resting upright. Now I use pure sorted, clean, fluxed wheel weights, use of powder coat in different colors for caliber I.D. I also found that with the powder coating allows me to cut back 1-2 10ths of powder for the identical copper jacket speeds. Mixing powder colors is fun also. I would never shoot jacketed bullets again, after casting and coating my own. I run them all through the sizer and sort by weights for accuracy, so far resulting in 8fps-12fps per 5 rounds variation. Great Explanations in this video.
I have been reloading for 13yr with jacketed, plated or coated lead. I have found that coated bullets work excellent, as good as plated or jacketed I get no leading and I get always get higher velocity with coated lead because it seals the barrel better. Ive shot coated lead 44Magnums tru my Henry at 1600fps and I get no leading at all with excellent accuracy. Now its time to start casting 😄
That was a really good video almost makes me want to powder coat, The Tumblr but always put it on when the bullets are still hot and when they cool down there ready to go
yeah, that is a good way to speed up the drying process. Do you usually single coat them or double coat them in the tumble lube since you're shooting them in those long barrels?
Good video it made a lot of sense I see you don’t stand up all your bullets that makes it look easier.I think I want to give it a try ,been casting over fifty years but this old dog doesn’t mind learning new tricks.
Great video man! I do both powder coating and tumble lubing on my 357 mag and 44 mag loads. I can get higher velocities without leading. It works great on a cast Lee LSWC tumble lube bullet and 45/45/10. Magnum speeds with no gas check, woo Hoo!
Yeah, from pan lubing, to Alox and now powder coating I think we have all gone through this process of change. Some people who have been doing it the same way since the 70s see no reason to change. Not me, I am glad I don't own a lubersizer and have to change dies. Powder coating seemed to come out of nowhere fast but thanks to social media it caught on fast and for good reason. I have heard all sorts of stories how PC rifle bullets can't be as accurate as copper jacketed bullets etc.. but I have not found that to be the case. I heard so many say you can't get the same Velocity and accuracy in a rifle, again not the case, my take on it was it was all about the powder choice and bullet weight over the choice whether a bullet was PC or copper jacketed. Great video. Loved it.
Thanks, and always great to hear the experiences of the older but open-minded bullet casters. If you were to pick the one main reason for you to powder coat your bullets instead of using traditional lube, what would you say?
@@FullLeadTaco For handguns ease of use. No time spent making wax lube blends, or buying alox no reason to buy a lubersizer with $40 dies each time.. It's hot here in Florida, so no melting or mess. For rifle bullets I wanted to get them up to copper jacketed velocity with no leading, why ? because of cost, its way cheaper. Accuracy questions, yeah, ok see below : For rifles that is what I wanted to focus on, as a challenge, can a PC rifle bullets be as fast and as accurate as a expensive copper jackets bullet. Answer is yes and no. Many of those long distance rifle old timers have had their lead bullet rounds dialed in for 25 years, so they are not going to change. So ok, if you really want to go out to 500 to 600 meters or more... sure buy ELDs , that's is what I do. Or go on line and find out what lead bullet has been dialed in for your rifle. But It won't have the higher velocity due to leading. I have seen those guys clean their barrels every three rounds, you want to do that? Not me. But what about say 200 meters and under. Copper gas checks cost money. They work. But can we make a cheaper PC rifle bullet with out the gas check. Yes. Bullet design and smokeless powder choice can do it. Mil surp guns like the k98 or the K31 or the Mosin -Nagant do quite well with PC bullets ...Ak -47s not so much.. but could get better I think. I don't really want to spend $1.25 to $1.75 per round for that box of copper jacketed bullets just to get the velocity/accuracy. Unless I am hunting. One more thing, I think people have been working on their lead bullets or copper jacketed bullets for years if not more than 10 years to get the performance they want. We have not "fooled" around or tweeked our Pc rifle bullets that long , so give it time. Have I made really good copper gas checked PC rifle bullets, yes. Have I made bad PC rifle bullets as far as accuracy .. yes. Have I made good PC rifle bullets without gas checks yes. But all under 200 meters which is fine for me.
Thanks for the insight I have tried harbor freight powder and haven't had too good a result but I have bought some powder coated bullets from chey cast and they seem to work quite well
Great vid Taco, good honest comparison. Only one area that I may differ is where the need for a gas check is with powder coated bullets. Good job buddy👍🏻
Full.Lead.Taco that’s something I’m still testing and something that will vary by cartridge. Right now I’m shooting plain base PC bullets in 357 carbine to 1800 fps without issue. Here lately I’ve been testing soft lead with pc and have shot it at velocities that I was told wasn’t possible. Short answer is I don’t know where that line is but I’m looking for it lol.👍🏻
@@georgiaboy4410 Yeah, I pushed some plain base coated cast bullets pretty hard using just the PC. I think the video still exists on TRN: thereloadersnetwork.com/2018/05/11/30-30-casting-loading-and-shooting-1871-1971-nra-rifle-using-the-noe-htc310-173-fp-mold/
The guys shooting tiny groups competing in matches (rifle shooting) don't generally use powdercoated bullets, but I hear you. I believe you can still make and shoot accurate powder coated bullets, but to shoot the tiniest groups I'd still give the top end accuracy to the traditional lube. I also think it is easier to make decently accurate powder coated bullets, but top end accuracy (like for rifle matches) still goes to the traditional lube guys. Hard to make a generalization though, when each person's attention to detail and abilities will produce different results. Thanks for watching Gregg!
@@FullLeadTaco Mike, one of the things in bullseye shooting is to take Federal gold medal match ammo and fire it from a random rest, then fire your cast bullets to compare the results(both at 50 yards). seldom will jacketed bullets outshoot ones that have no jacket and if they do, it is probably a firearm related thing than an ammo thing. I have seen best groups fired with GM ammo print just at 2 inches and that is what they say it will do, However, Handloaded H&G 63 or 68 will leave a ragged hole, it is amazing. people in my circle have tried to get those results from Powder coated bullets and have been unsuccessful, Now, for the action shooter those power coated bullets will work just fine to win a match in that environment, it strongly depends on what you use the bullet for and is the accuracy adequate to give winning results. I believe that you make a strong point about rifle, Schutzen is shot with plain lead bullets and it is amazing what they can do at 200 yard offhand open sights. sub MOA.
@@Thorsaxe777 Agreed. And "accuracy" is a relative term. For some people, 1" groups at 100 yards is superb accuracy... for other people, 1" groups would mean that they still need to work on perfecting their load. All depends on what your purpose/usage is.
My Henry 44mag is pushing 1800fps with 255gr PC bullets. Works great 👍 Also, not a spokesperson, but NOE is great as well. Not sure why they aren't more popular. A little pricey, yes. But the quality is on point.
Great video....I go with acetone PC, solved mine undersized bullet problems. But number 1 reason for PC is lead exposure on the range...As you all know lead is toxic and whoever shoots a lot should think about avoiding lead exposure.
I was also using Acetone, yet discovered occasionally the castings not liking to accept the powder coating during my shaking/static operation. I switched to Denatured Alcohol and found an amazing improvement over the Acetone. This also made my shaking for 100% adhesion shrink to about 2 minutes, saving on the old arms. If buying at Home Depot, Denatured Alcohol is now labeled "Fuel".
Thanks, that's good info to know. I've not shot cast bullets for about 20+ years and needed to catch up on Coatings. I want to make some practice ammo for a S&W BG.380 auto. I have the old lubing-sizing gear for 9mm & etc. and I'm thinking of using that old stuff for now. I just found a $26 "Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 356-102-1R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356 Diameter) 102 Grain" at Midway, so I'm gonna give casting another shot. (I had fun with 9mm & 38/357 cast bullets in 1980s). I kinda like the looks of the S&W .380 EZ. Maybe shooting some 102 gr lead in the EZ would be more fun than the BG380 (micro pistol)..
Powder coat is way way better. Also when you load your bolt action with stripper clips, just run your bolt forward and it will eject that stripper clip automagically 11:20. 😊
This added a few to my pros list for sure - Maybe my top is easy identification - Like my 44-40 - Black powder is gold - smokeless - purple and pistol goes light blue. Down the list is - it hides some small casting flaws (I use those for starter loads)
I've lubed bullets about ever way possible over my 35+ years of shooting cast bullets starting with pan lubing then tumble lube followed by traditional lube and finally powder coating. My biggest Pros with PC are less mess, better long term storage of lubed cast bullets in less than ideal weather conditions that affect the lube and the ability to use a soft alloy for high velocity loads that want hold up at those velocities / pressures with traditional lube, it's pretty much how and why I use 50/50 on everything I shoot and water quench the HV bullet after powder coating, I've push those bullets up to 2300 fps. PC'ed and gas checked with no issues in my 06. I havent experienced any problem shooting bore rider bullets in any of my rifles powder coated, I shoot the Lee .309" 170 gr. FN the Lee .312" 160 gr. TL and 185 gr. RN bullets PC and sized accordingly to .311" or .314" depending on what rifles I'm shooting them in with no issues. The only problem I've run across in is some semi auto pistol the PC increases the ogive dia. on RN bullet to a point that you have to seat the bullet slightly deeper to chamber properly, but I only have one bullet that causes that problems in one gun so I just shoot TC style bullets in it all the time.
@@FullLeadTacoI did a quick check and depending on what PC I use it's between 0.001 and 0.003" additional dia. over non-coated bullets. Most of my rifles are Mil-Surplus like my SKS and Mosin rifles the others are a mix of lever and pump action rifles all which have large and or long throats. But if it were a problem I think it would have shown up in my Rem 770 in 30-06. It will chamber the Lee 160 gr. TL or 170 gr. FN sized to .309" on the body with no nose sizing regardless of powder coat used and shoots very accurately as well. In general, I will size my rifle bullets to the throat rather than the bore or as large as they will chamber.
I can see the day coming when indoor ranges will ban traditional lead/lubed bullets. I've been at this game for 50 yrs. I really enjoy PC for all the reasons you talk about. I have driven my .358 Win. above 2200ft./sec just to prove it can be done. They are gas checked, powder coated, heat treated and lubed. There was nothing in the bore except the usual powder residue. I have a couple of moulds that are a little undersized to,my standards. PC allowed me to bump up the diameter. I have hunted with cast , results are devastating. Have fun guys. Make sure you get all the Zinc out of your wheel weights or you will be dumping a whole pot of hot lead on your lawn.
Yeah, gas operated systems like the AR, the DE, etc... I thought about specifically mentioning that but instead just talked about the total encapsulation of the bullet in a protective polymer jacket. One of the reasons I left that out specifically was because I know guys who shoot traditionally lubed bullets in gas operated guns without leading problems in the gas system. The PC sure does help make it easier though IMO.
@@FullLeadTacothe ar system is easy to fix if it does lead/lube the gas port/tube/bcg, but the DE is a nightmare. My wife and I used to shoot 4k + a month in 13 different calibers all I cast and traditional or tumble lubed and the smoke and cleanup was rough. Now with PC it's slightly more involved than a star sizer but shoots like a fmj and much cleaner. Thanks for the info your channel is why I finally stated powder coating.
I don't have any of the equipment needed for casting and powder coating so my other option is to buy my bullets from GallantBullets. They are casted polymer coated and best of all they are a local veteran owned company. 👊😎🇺🇸
yeah, Gallant bullets are great! I wish they made bullets from the 135gr NOE .30 cal design. That's probably one design I would probably buy, even though I usually cast my own. It seems like I can never keep enough of those bullets around with how many I shoot (or my friends and family shoot).
I'm 7 minutes in. So far ii agree with everything you have said. But as for speed I don't think total process time, is the best way to think of it. I think it is labor time. tumble lube and powder coat work out to about the same manufacturer in cleaning and so on. There is something to the notion of I need the bullets right now how long do I have to wait, but that's not usually how I load to me time in the oven or time on the drying rack just doesn't count that's not stuff that actively requires my involvement. I can be doing other things will those bullets are in the oven. Most likely tumbling the next batch. I'm usually doing a few thousand bullets at once. tumbling in baking up for five thousand bullets might as a total process elapse an hour or two. but during that hour I probably also started some laundry and made dinner.
Yeah, time wise I can see it both ways. Another way to look at it, is perhaps, like if you have a day off to do all the casting and coating/lubing you can--because the next week you are going to be too busy to touch it again. In that scenario, (which is actually quite common for me), I can cast, coat, and size bullets all in one session rather than having an overnight drying time--which would hold me back for an entire week if I had to wait 24 hours for drying time. But yeah, the time reasons can differ from person to person.
Well you asked for comments an additional thoughts. For your point at the end about Bore riders... I think your point is generally right but I can say also if somebody that has a more rider that's just a little too small much like your previous statement that might be the fix. Alternatively one can design bore Rider molds and take powder coating into account. A final thought that you kind of missed was the expense of the lubrisizer itself. Those things are not cheap and I see people buying maintenance parts for them too. I don't think they're faster then simply tumbling as cast and loading. I don't think they're faster than simply tumbling and going through a push through sizer. They probably are slightly faster for gas checking. Though it is possible that the APP, has tipped the balance... Also a lot of people who say powder coating is slowerare probably right but that's because they are doing a whole lot of extra fiddly steps like adding plastic beads and sorting them out standing up the bullets all carefully and that sort of thing. I don't think it's really meaningful to compare of processes if you put in all the extra wasted time that anybody can add into the processes. That's more of a individual analysis. I.e. I waste last time when I lubrisize vs. When I powder coat...
yeah, I wasn't meaning to argue or disagree, just to throw in a statement of why the 24 hour drying time would be significant for some people. Good points on the bore riders too.
@@FullLeadTaco no I was tracking with you and I agree on that. Total time and also total human time are both relevant. I think people tend to not count time in set up and clean up steps that they do too. in particular anything that requires visual sorting ends up being very labor-intensive when you do more than a handful. if something just isn't casting right about a batch it's way more reasonable to just figure out your problem and recast the whole batch then to try to sort out the good bullets from the bad. when people are fighting coatings that aren't working right or having to sort beads out from their bullets and then stand them up and inspect each bullet, that sort of thing adds up significantly. So fighting a powder that just doesn't want to stick ends up making a huge productivity penalty. you've done enough powder coating that I'm sure you've noticed how much difference switching out from one powder to another can make. And that can be double the production for a day. It could also be the frustration point that makes you give up.
Wow That view at 12:30 is absolutely amazing Man what a view Thanks for the video I’m just starting to powder coat Have any tricks to get traditional lube off of cast Bullet ???
There may come a day that indoor ranges will not permit traditionally cast lead lubed projectiles. Smoke and fumes being a issue. Powder coated bore riding projectiles will have to be seated to greater depth sometimes excessively if you have a tight chamber. This is not good for accuracy and pressure as you you are taking up case capacity. For fine accuracy I have not seen the highly competitive cast shooters switch to powder coat. I like powder coat it has its place for all the reasons you say. Handgun and smooth projectiles with no grooves. Also if you have a oversized bore you can swage the powder bullet to size. Hey!!! This is something new and exciting.Im enjoying it.
Yup, if anything, it's always nice to have another tool in the toolbox. Powder coating may not be for all scenarios, but it does work great for a lot of people and a lot of cases.
I went to powder coating after decades of traditional and tumble lubing. I don’t think powder coating saves much time because I stand bullets in end to achieve the best coating
I stand all my bullets up as well it's just the way I have always done it. Getting the first tray does take some time but on average during the 20 min. baking time once the powder coat glosses over I can have the next tray ready to go into the oven. It is slower and you have to be more careful moving the tray to the oven especially with tall 30 cal. bullets but I like the results I get on the bullets and on the target. It;s my hobby and what I enjoy doing.
I'm an old geezer who's only done traditional sizing With wax lubrication.. He only touched on sizing after the powder coating. Though the 2 big questions I have would be do you have to get a different sizer? And beyond that it would seem that sizing of an already powder coated bullet would somewhat Put abrasions on the coating. So does the coating not get stripped off during sizing?
@@FullLeadTaco very......secret is 3x PC, sized .278, also cast 7mm (.284) core, pc 1x, size to .278. runs all groves off, then 2x pc, final resize .278... orig GC grooves gone, now 1.2" of contact, accurate @125yds.....1.3" groups......I also run my TC Contender, 444 marlin, 49.5gn H4198, 200GN / 2x PC , 2100f ft/s........this one is a handful! !......love it! thanks again
I do both but tend to use my powder coated bullets for "blasting" and traditional lubed bullets for match grade accuracy. I've never considered using a powder coated H&G #68 200 grain LSCW in my Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Springfield Armory Custom Shop or Dan Wesson 1911s. My run of the mill Colts, Springfield Armorys and Kimbers I do. The reason being that high dollar pistol has a match grade barrel. The verdict still isn't out yet what powder coating does to your barrel over the long term many years of use. Some powder coating has abrasives within the compound. Unless you are a thick glasses wearing MDS Scientist freak you won't know what, if and which ones do. Best not to take the chance on $2,000 to $5,000+ pistols and go old school. A $500 GLOCK is another story....even a $700 S&W revolver.
People that shoot a lot try to avoid constant and a steady diet of FMJ copper jacketed for the same reason. That barrel will be shot out in 30,000 rounds instead of 75,000.
I still use my lubrasizer every now and then, but 95% is PC. Tried the tumble lube and it was a mess having to coat, dry, size and then hope the size die didn’t take off the lube. Also with PC there’s no sticky fingers or dust bunnies. And I know it’s very rare with lubed bullets, but no chance of powder contamination with the PC.
well, assuming most people are trying to save money, the added cost with adding alcohol to the mix would not be worth the speeding up of the drying time (for a lot of people).
I like beeswax lube because if I am out shooting and my lips get chapped I can just use the loaded rounds as chapstick :-D (For anyone who doesn't know, this is a joke. please NEVER rub loaded ammo anywhere on your face it is a terrible idea.)
Great video Taco. Do you have any recommendations for hollow point molds? Specifically I'm looking for a good grovless 308 mold to shoot subs for my 300 BLK. So far I've seen GT bullets offer this but not sure what mold they use.
Noe has one, but you gotta powder coat super thin, hitek works better on that particular mold... Or you can nose size the bullets which isn't fun. Is it for an AR15 or bolt gun?
Thank you. Good video. I have a question. My dad used to shoot a lot of pistol back in the day. He's been gone 25 years now. I acquired a lot of cast lead 38 special bullets from my brother recently. Anyway I remember helping my dad dig up the lead and melt it and made bullets. Just wondering what your opinion is on these. I don't have the lube sizer and will not be doing competition shooting. Just would like to load these. I probably have 150# of bullets and components for loading. Thank you, Ron Olson from Wyoming.
I like PC because I hate gunked up bullet seating dies from traditional lube . I run PC bullets to 2100 fps without a gas check , which saves another step .
I managed to survive the insidious 'O C D' infection of yesteryear...now, as an 'O C D Veteran', I am drawn to PC'd, stand-up bake cast bullets because of a number of reasons...but since I'm old, I have brain-farts & memory lapses and can't recall just exactly why at the moment....when the Wife gets home, I'll ask her...."She knows everything!" (heheee . . . ..great discussion TacoMan)
@cwlongshot yeah, for me it is a time vs performance compromise... The mesh basket saves time and doesn't lose much in performance... so I avoid the standing up of the bullets except when I want to impress, ha ha ha.
I started powder coating a couple of weeks ago and had a problem with case separation with 45 acp in my carbine. Two cases separated in the middle, not at the case head, which has me thinking that the powder coat is binding to the inside of the case more so than traditional lubed bullets causing greater stress on the case. The loads were 7.3 grs of unique with a 230 gr bullet. I've had zero problems with this loading using lubed bullets. Thoughts ?
@@FullLeadTaco Sam bullet sized .452 Top load for 45 acp but not extreme. One case was a new Starline 45 super case. I fired some rounds today using lubed bullets with the 7.3 grains unique in 45 acp case and some with 9.5 grs Longshot in 45 super cases with no problems. The powder coat may not be good for hotter loads. I used the wet coat method for coating the bullets, but I don't think that would make a difference. Bullets were seated the same.
I use pc bullets for my 9mm and .380 without any problems, but they are below 900 fps according to my chronograph. I was curious if you or someone you know might have had a problem when firing stouter loads.
Taco --- I am a new bullet caster and have never tried lubing bullets. I have started in powder coating with mixed results depending of choice of color in same brand of powder. Several months ago I heard that long term storage of powder coated bullets in loaded cartridges when using a double base powder was possibly detrimental to the firearm and one's health.. Any truth to that ??
Yes, different colors will coat better than others, even using the same brand. I usually recommend Eastwood or PowderBuyThePound powders. As far as the long term storage of powder coated bullets in loaded cartridges, I've heard similar things but haven't experienced that directly. Maybe I should do an experiment and throw some coated cast bullets into some containers of different powder and see what happens.
@@FullLeadTaco That should be a good test but the container should also be sealed like a cartridge case is sealed. I thought about using plastic pill containers but wonder about the reaction of the powder with the plastic which would negated the desired test. I have some glass lab test tubes that may be ideal for this.
Do you find that you need to size your powder coated bullets and seat them deeper? I found this on my auto loading pistols in 9mm and 45acp. But this increases pressure.
Although that can be a factor, lead exposure from the priming compound can also lead to lead exposure during shooting, cleaning the firearm as well as tumbling brass.
@@FullLeadTaco Thank you for the reply, I am newish to all this bullet casting stuff and was told by a guy that has been helping me that he has a book which lists the hardness of the cured powder coating as more then that of the barrel steel, I hate to doubt someone offering help but I am trying to either prove or disprove that claim. Also I have not seen this mentioned but don't you get residue and some fouling from the plastic? Please let me know and again thanks for the info.
Feel free to email me with any questions. But no, powder coated lead bullets are not harder than steel. Just think of them like a polymer or plastic coated lead bullet. A little harder than traditionally lubed cast lead, but softer than jacketed bullets.
@@MrChubbyHubby. It's not the hardness you have to watch out for. Some powder coating has abrasive compounds within them. That is like lapping a barrel over time and years of use. Both traditional lubing and powder coating have their places. For what is good in a modern dime a dozen polymer $500 wonder pistol might not be the same for a 1955 S&W Chief Special pre model 36 or a Springfield Armory Custom Shop Professional FBI HRT/SWAT 1911 .45 ACP with a 4-digit serial number.
Another thought about the competition cast bullet shooters... Most of those guys are pretty old. well that's nothing against him it does mean that they've worked out a system that they're very very resistant to change. I think it will be a while before we see enough people really experiment with powder coat who are already shooting at that level. Example: We have a local Facebook group that is run by an NRA instructor who teaches reloading classes. He is exactly the sort of guy that R/weekendgunnit would make fun of. he excitedly published an article from the cast bullet association, wherein the author tried out powder coating discovered it was terrible and dismissed it. it was kind of laughable to me when I read the actual article because the guy did everything in the most cumbersome awkward way possible with the poorest quality stuff and got exactly the results you would expect. And this confirmed his preconception. And that was good enough for our local NRA instructor as proof that powder coating as a whole is a waste of time. An article where one guy struggles with harbor freight powder and probably a humid environment from what I could see. I'm not saying that there aren't people willing to experiment who are doing precision cast competition, but by definition those guys tend to be traditionalist. if they were wanting to press the real extremes of performance they would be shooting jacketed at long range.
yeah, I agree on that. All it takes is an open mind to see that there are distinct benefits to powder coating bullets. And I think that as we get more experienced in the PC methods we will learn ways to make the PC'd bullets more accurate and perhaps compete on the top end of the accuracy spectrum with traditional lubed bullets. Time will tell.
@@FullLeadTaco one area that seems very largely unexplored, is alloy tuning for long-range precision. And I'm talking about for cartridges designed around jacketed bullets. I hope to do that someday but it will have a significant time and money cost to get the materials to compare. I'm thinking of things like babbitts... if you could cast something comprable to a 168 grain Sierra matchking the could handle the full velocity and pressure and it cost 4 cents each in alloy, that whole genre of shooting would become radically cheaper. almost all of the serious studying development I've seen has been with traditional alloys. It's possible that there is some potential and zinc too. I've learned enough of the downsides of it that I am less interested in being the one to personally develop all of that though.
@@GunFunZS yeah, I've heard that blending copper into the alloy does wonderous things... copper enriched alloys... Although that will take some serious experimentation as well as a huge time chunk. Time seems to be fleeting at this stage in my life (not quite enough time to get the things done I'd like to).
it would also be cool to get a swaging die set to match a particular powdercoated bullet so you could cast, coat, and then swage to get the perfect final dimensions.
@@FullLeadTaco I have seen top punch nose sizers for exactly that purpose. I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't work on a PC bullet. Just run them in a lubrisizer without the lube?
I use traditional lube because I only shoot revolvers (Im not chasing my brass) and I like to pretend I'm a cowboy 🤠 and colored bullets just don't look the part to me.
The powder used in powder coating is an abrasive material and thus will wear out your barrel faster than normal. The new plastic coating that is also super slippery has to be applied with heat. For the amount of money that you save and casting your own bullets it is not really worth it if you desire to have a couple of bullets it is cheaper to buy the pre-made bullets with the plastic coating. Otherwise I would never use powder coating I would stick with the lubricated bullet if can't afford the factory done coating. Stay away from powder coatings.
I have thousands and thousands of rounds through some of my barrels with powdercoated bullets. I do not see evidence of your suggestion that powdercoating is abrasive.
Yes I did watch the entire video. Thank you brother! Yes it answered a whole slew of questions and simultaneously created a bunch more. Which I am sure that it is supposed to do if one wants to become more knowledgeable at all of this.
Knowing how much is involved when producing a video, I want you to know that I truly appreciate the time you took out of your day(s) to get it out.
Charlie Mike!
Glad to hear buddy. Feel free to ask any questions as they come up.
Thanks for sharing. I'm fresh to reloading and these videos are very helpful.
Glad to be of help Pat!
Wow. Extremely thorough and informative. Another one I have to add to my reloading playlist. Thanks brother.
Thanks, glad I could help out.
Mike, that was an accurate assessment of Powder coat Vs, Traditional lubing. I believe the two points you focused on were Cost and need, need has two points to it, what kind of shooting are you doing? Cleanliness, some indoor ranges do not allow plain led bullets and as you described, if you shoot with a suppressor, the handling of the bullets, also waxy build up in the seating die. I also believe that people who are just starting out powder coating is a way of producing bullets for practice at an affordable price, my recommendation is to get instruction on marksmanship along with that (Books, or from people who are in the know)if you want to get better results. those powder coated bullets properly loaded will outshoot 80% of the pistol shooting community. they cast a wide net reducing cost in equipment needed to process bullets lubing them over the lube sizer method. One thing you brought up, drying time, I use Rooster Jacket as a sealant for the same reason, long term storage and the coating will prohibit oxidation over time, However, I feel this is a packaging thing and not part of my process of making them. expense is the key reason to powder coat and that gets more people shooting as an affordable fun sport. I give you an A+ on the subject matter you covered. -Dave
Thanks Dave, appreciate your comments and experience.
i know im asking the wrong place but does anyone know of a tool to log back into an instagram account..?
I stupidly lost the login password. I love any help you can offer me
@Casen Quentin Instablaster :)
@Asa Johnny Thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and im in the hacking process atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Asa Johnny it worked and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D
Thanks so much you really help me out :D
best vid I've see in a while. .....your spot on with all info......your correct, running soft alloy, then PC..... does improve performance, very well done, great job!
One of the most informative and well produced videos I have watched yet.
Thanks
One other reason...you can use the colors to "label" you ammo. (i.e. Use Black PC for all your subsonic ammo and other colors for your sonic loads). Great video Taco !!!
yup, color code your ammo
Very informative and well presented ,the best explanation for powder coating bullets iv listened to .
thanks!
Watched entire video and you provided great information. Enjoyed the video!
Thanks for watching Toad, glad you enjoyed it!
Great overview, Taco. I've tumble lubed with 45-45-10, powder coated and lubrisized with my Lyman 4500. For me, lubrisizing is the fastest method because sizing and lubing occur at the same time. As you point out, they are separate processes with the other two methods. I also find that bullet diameters are more consistent with lubrisizer bullet sizing dies compared to the Lee and NOE push through methods. To each his own, though 👍👍👍
yup, definitely pros and cons for each method of "lubing" the bullets.
Great informative video Mike. One thing I don't think you mentioned unless I missed it, my favorite part of grooveless molds... The bullets drop from the molds so much easier!
oh yeah! casting with grooveless molds is so much easier. I love casting with the grooveless molds--they just jump out of the mold with minimal effort.
You have given out some very good information to consider.
Thank you,
Glad to help!
Thank you sir, another option to consider and try....
Very informative vid. I like to powder coat because you can test the bullets like copper plated bullets plus the piece of mind that it will protect me way more from lead that traditionally lube.
Great vid. Good points. Thanks!
Thanks for this video. I cast and lubed bullets using both lubes, but once tried shooting powder coated bullet, would never use my stinky, messy Alox lube. What convinced me was when I chronographed the powder coated bullets, in comparison to the copper jacketed were 115fps to 165fps faster in velocity, same exact powder charge, seating length etc.Powder coated bullets leave zero deposits in my barrel, translating to me less friction and harder material, supported by the increased velocities, equaling less barrel wear. Your video hit the nail on the head for the hardness and alloy content, once powder coated! Initially for experimentation, I cast bullets with pure mag wheel weights soft lead I use for my black powder. I drop my castings from the mold directly into cold water, chill hardening, also again right out of the oven when powder coated. I did a "Smash" test on a 45 200gr swc bullet and broke the outer housing on my Snap-On ball peen hammer, barely flattening the bullet after 3 solid direct strikes on an anvil where the bullet was resting upright. Now I use pure sorted, clean, fluxed wheel weights, use of powder coat in different colors for caliber I.D. I also found that with the powder coating allows me to cut back 1-2 10ths of powder for the identical copper jacket speeds. Mixing powder colors is fun also. I would never shoot jacketed bullets again, after casting and coating my own. I run them all through the sizer and sort by weights for accuracy, so far resulting in 8fps-12fps per 5 rounds variation. Great Explanations in this video.
thanks for your well-written comment. Good comments help spread good information!
I have been reloading for 13yr with jacketed, plated or coated lead. I have found that coated bullets work excellent, as good as plated or jacketed I get no leading and I get always get higher velocity with coated lead because it seals the barrel better.
Ive shot coated lead 44Magnums tru my Henry at 1600fps and I get no leading at all with excellent accuracy. Now its time to start casting 😄
That was a really good video almost makes me want to powder coat, The Tumblr but always put it on when the bullets are still hot and when they cool down there ready to go
yeah, that is a good way to speed up the drying process. Do you usually single coat them or double coat them in the tumble lube since you're shooting them in those long barrels?
Good video it made a lot of sense I see you don’t stand up all your bullets that makes it look easier.I think I want to give it a try ,been casting over fifty years but this old dog doesn’t mind learning new tricks.
never hurts to try out new methods
I could not have said that any better you covered every point I would a covered And then Some.
Thanks Tim!
Good info. Been standing up bullets in the toaster oven. Got the 300blk 225gr NOE mold you designed so will have to try the wire basket idea.
Just make sure to not stack the bullets all on top of each other
Really found this video helpful thanks!
Glad to help!
Great video man! I do both powder coating and tumble lubing on my 357 mag and 44 mag loads. I can get higher velocities without leading. It works great on a cast Lee LSWC tumble lube bullet and 45/45/10. Magnum speeds with no gas check, woo Hoo!
Yup, both methods have their pros and cons but I prefer to powder coat for my uses
Yeah, from pan lubing, to Alox and now powder coating I think we have all gone through this process of change. Some people who have been doing it the same way since the 70s see no reason to change. Not me, I am glad I don't own a lubersizer and have to change dies. Powder coating seemed to come out of nowhere fast but thanks to social media it caught on fast and for good reason. I have heard all sorts of stories how PC rifle bullets can't be as accurate as copper jacketed bullets etc.. but I have not found that to be the case. I heard so many say you can't get the same Velocity and accuracy in a rifle, again not the case, my take on it was it was all about the powder choice and bullet weight over the choice whether a bullet was PC or copper jacketed. Great video. Loved it.
Thanks, and always great to hear the experiences of the older but open-minded bullet casters. If you were to pick the one main reason for you to powder coat your bullets instead of using traditional lube, what would you say?
@@FullLeadTaco For handguns ease of use. No time spent making wax lube blends, or buying alox no reason to buy a lubersizer with $40 dies each time.. It's hot here in Florida, so no melting or mess.
For rifle bullets I wanted to get them up to copper jacketed velocity with no leading, why ? because of cost, its way cheaper. Accuracy questions, yeah, ok see below :
For rifles that is what I wanted to focus on, as a challenge, can a PC rifle bullets be as fast and as accurate as a expensive copper jackets bullet. Answer is yes and no.
Many of those long distance rifle old timers have had their lead bullet rounds dialed in for 25 years, so they are not going to change. So ok, if you really want to go out to 500 to 600 meters or more... sure buy ELDs , that's is what I do. Or go on line and find out what lead bullet has been dialed in for your rifle. But It won't have the higher velocity due to leading. I have seen those guys clean their barrels every three rounds, you want to do that? Not me.
But what about say 200 meters and under. Copper gas checks cost money. They work. But can we make a cheaper PC rifle bullet with out the gas check. Yes. Bullet design and smokeless powder choice can do it. Mil surp guns like the k98 or the K31 or the Mosin -Nagant do quite well with PC bullets ...Ak -47s not so much.. but could get better I think. I don't really want to spend $1.25 to $1.75 per round for that box of copper jacketed bullets just to get the velocity/accuracy. Unless I am hunting.
One more thing, I think people have been working on their lead bullets or copper jacketed bullets for years if not more than 10 years to get the performance they want. We have not "fooled" around or tweeked our Pc rifle bullets that long , so give it time. Have I made really good copper gas checked PC rifle bullets, yes. Have I made bad PC rifle bullets as far as accuracy .. yes. Have I made good PC rifle bullets without gas checks yes. But all under 200 meters which is fine for me.
Well it's just for aesthetics n looks but I like the powder coat for easy identification . I do different calibers different colors.
Another very helpful video
Thanks willie!
Thanks for the insight I have tried harbor freight powder and haven't had too good a result but I have bought some powder coated bullets from chey cast and they seem to work quite well
no prob, thanks for the coment!
Great vid Taco, good honest comparison. Only one area that I may differ is where the need for a gas check is with powder coated bullets. Good job buddy👍🏻
what's your thoughts on where the gas check is needed?
Full.Lead.Taco that’s something I’m still testing and something that will vary by cartridge. Right now I’m shooting plain base PC bullets in 357 carbine to 1800 fps without issue. Here lately I’ve been testing soft lead with pc and have shot it at velocities that I was told wasn’t possible. Short answer is I don’t know where that line is but I’m looking for it lol.👍🏻
@@georgiaboy4410 Yeah, I pushed some plain base coated cast bullets pretty hard using just the PC. I think the video still exists on TRN: thereloadersnetwork.com/2018/05/11/30-30-casting-loading-and-shooting-1871-1971-nra-rifle-using-the-noe-htc310-173-fp-mold/
Full.Lead.Taco I remember that one. Luv that 30-30 musket👍🏻
But, I don’t think I give up much of anything in the accuracy department because I stand bullets on end and achieve a very uniform coating.
The guys shooting tiny groups competing in matches (rifle shooting) don't generally use powdercoated bullets, but I hear you. I believe you can still make and shoot accurate powder coated bullets, but to shoot the tiniest groups I'd still give the top end accuracy to the traditional lube. I also think it is easier to make decently accurate powder coated bullets, but top end accuracy (like for rifle matches) still goes to the traditional lube guys. Hard to make a generalization though, when each person's attention to detail and abilities will produce different results. Thanks for watching Gregg!
@@FullLeadTaco Mike, one of the things in bullseye shooting is to take Federal gold medal match ammo and fire it from a random rest, then fire your cast bullets to compare the results(both at 50 yards). seldom will jacketed bullets outshoot ones that have no jacket and if they do, it is probably a firearm related thing than an ammo thing. I have seen best groups fired with GM ammo print just at 2 inches and that is what they say it will do, However, Handloaded H&G 63 or 68 will leave a ragged hole, it is amazing. people in my circle have tried to get those results from Powder coated bullets and have been unsuccessful, Now, for the action shooter those power coated bullets will work just fine to win a match in that environment, it strongly depends on what you use the bullet for and is the accuracy adequate to give winning results. I believe that you make a strong point about rifle, Schutzen is shot with plain lead bullets and it is amazing what they can do at 200 yard offhand open sights. sub MOA.
@@Thorsaxe777 Agreed. And "accuracy" is a relative term. For some people, 1" groups at 100 yards is superb accuracy... for other people, 1" groups would mean that they still need to work on perfecting their load. All depends on what your purpose/usage is.
My Henry 44mag is pushing 1800fps with 255gr PC bullets. Works great 👍
Also, not a spokesperson, but NOE is great as well. Not sure why they aren't more popular. A little pricey, yes. But the quality is on point.
Cool beans man. I like powder coat.
yup, definitely a great way to do cast bullets.
Outstanding
thanks!
Definitely,
great vid! thanks
Thanks Ceez33!
Great video....I go with acetone PC, solved mine undersized bullet problems. But number 1 reason for PC is lead exposure on the range...As you all know lead is toxic and whoever shoots a lot should think about avoiding lead exposure.
I was also using Acetone, yet discovered occasionally the castings not liking to accept the powder coating during my shaking/static operation. I switched to Denatured Alcohol and found an amazing improvement over the Acetone. This also made my shaking for 100% adhesion shrink to about 2 minutes, saving on the old arms. If buying at Home Depot, Denatured Alcohol is now labeled "Fuel".
Thanks, that's good info to know. I've not shot cast bullets for about 20+ years and needed to catch up on Coatings.
I want to make some practice ammo for a S&W BG.380 auto. I have the old lubing-sizing gear for 9mm & etc. and I'm thinking of using that old stuff for now. I just found a $26 "Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 356-102-1R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356 Diameter) 102 Grain" at Midway, so I'm gonna give casting another shot. (I had fun with 9mm & 38/357 cast bullets in 1980s).
I kinda like the looks of the S&W .380 EZ. Maybe shooting some 102 gr lead in the EZ would be more fun than the BG380 (micro pistol)..
The EZ is a good shooter, nice and EZ... I just don't like the grip safety on the back.
Powder coat is way way better. Also when you load your bolt action with stripper clips, just run your bolt forward and it will eject that stripper clip automagically 11:20. 😊
This added a few to my pros list for sure - Maybe my top is easy identification - Like my 44-40 - Black powder is gold - smokeless - purple and pistol goes light blue. Down the list is - it hides some small casting flaws (I use those for starter loads)
Yeah for sure
I've lubed bullets about ever way possible over my 35+ years of shooting cast bullets starting with pan lubing then tumble lube followed by traditional lube and finally powder coating. My biggest Pros with PC are less mess, better long term storage of lubed cast bullets in less than ideal weather conditions that affect the lube and the ability to use a soft alloy for high velocity loads that want hold up at those velocities / pressures with traditional lube, it's pretty much how and why I use 50/50 on everything I shoot and water quench the HV bullet after powder coating, I've push those bullets up to 2300 fps. PC'ed and gas checked with no issues in my 06. I havent experienced any problem shooting bore rider bullets in any of my rifles powder coated, I shoot the Lee .309" 170 gr. FN the Lee .312" 160 gr. TL and 185 gr. RN bullets PC and sized accordingly to .311" or .314" depending on what rifles I'm shooting them in with no issues. The only problem I've run across in is some semi auto pistol the PC increases the ogive dia. on RN bullet to a point that you have to seat the bullet slightly deeper to chamber properly, but I only have one bullet that causes that problems in one gun so I just shoot TC style bullets in it all the time.
Thanks for sharing your experience and comment with us! On the bore rider topic, how much thickness are you adding to the bullet when you coat?
@@FullLeadTacoI did a quick check and depending on what PC I use it's between 0.001 and 0.003" additional dia. over non-coated bullets. Most of my rifles are Mil-Surplus like my SKS and Mosin rifles the others are a mix of lever and pump action rifles all which have large and or long throats. But if it were a problem I think it would have shown up in my Rem 770 in 30-06. It will chamber the Lee 160 gr. TL or 170 gr. FN sized to .309" on the body with no nose sizing regardless of powder coat used and shoots very accurately as well. In general, I will size my rifle bullets to the throat rather than the bore or as large as they will chamber.
I can see the day coming when indoor ranges will ban traditional lead/lubed bullets. I've been at this game for 50 yrs. I really enjoy PC for all the reasons you talk about. I have driven my .358 Win. above 2200ft./sec just to prove it can be done. They are gas checked, powder coated, heat treated and lubed. There was nothing in the bore except the usual powder residue. I have a couple of moulds that are a little undersized to,my standards. PC allowed me to bump up the diameter. I have hunted with cast , results are devastating. Have fun guys. Make sure you get all the Zinc out of your wheel weights or you will be dumping a whole pot of hot lead on your lawn.
Also shooting cast pc bullets in gas operated systems ( especially DE 50ae)
Yeah, gas operated systems like the AR, the DE, etc... I thought about specifically mentioning that but instead just talked about the total encapsulation of the bullet in a protective polymer jacket. One of the reasons I left that out specifically was because I know guys who shoot traditionally lubed bullets in gas operated guns without leading problems in the gas system. The PC sure does help make it easier though IMO.
@@FullLeadTacothe ar system is easy to fix if it does lead/lube the gas port/tube/bcg, but the DE is a nightmare. My wife and I used to shoot 4k + a month in 13 different calibers all I cast and traditional or tumble lubed and the smoke and cleanup was rough. Now with PC it's slightly more involved than a star sizer but shoots like a fmj and much cleaner. Thanks for the info your channel is why I finally stated powder coating.
I don't have any of the equipment needed for casting and powder coating so my other option is to buy my bullets from GallantBullets. They are casted polymer coated and best of all they are a local veteran owned company. 👊😎🇺🇸
yeah, Gallant bullets are great! I wish they made bullets from the 135gr NOE .30 cal design. That's probably one design I would probably buy, even though I usually cast my own. It seems like I can never keep enough of those bullets around with how many I shoot (or my friends and family shoot).
I'm 7 minutes in. So far ii agree with everything you have said. But as for speed I don't think total process time, is the best way to think of it. I think it is labor time. tumble lube and powder coat work out to about the same manufacturer in cleaning and so on. There is something to the notion of I need the bullets right now how long do I have to wait, but that's not usually how I load to me time in the oven or time on the drying rack just doesn't count that's not stuff that actively requires my involvement. I can be doing other things will those bullets are in the oven. Most likely tumbling the next batch. I'm usually doing a few thousand bullets at once. tumbling in baking up for five thousand bullets might as a total process elapse an hour or two. but during that hour I probably also started some laundry and made dinner.
Yeah, time wise I can see it both ways. Another way to look at it, is perhaps, like if you have a day off to do all the casting and coating/lubing you can--because the next week you are going to be too busy to touch it again. In that scenario, (which is actually quite common for me), I can cast, coat, and size bullets all in one session rather than having an overnight drying time--which would hold me back for an entire week if I had to wait 24 hours for drying time. But yeah, the time reasons can differ from person to person.
Well you asked for comments an additional thoughts. For your point at the end about Bore riders... I think your point is generally right but I can say also if somebody that has a more rider that's just a little too small much like your previous statement that might be the fix. Alternatively one can design bore Rider molds and take powder coating into account. A final thought that you kind of missed was the expense of the lubrisizer itself. Those things are not cheap and I see people buying maintenance parts for them too. I don't think they're faster then simply tumbling as cast and loading. I don't think they're faster than simply tumbling and going through a push through sizer. They probably are slightly faster for gas checking. Though it is possible that the APP, has tipped the balance... Also a lot of people who say powder coating is slowerare probably right but that's because they are doing a whole lot of extra fiddly steps like adding plastic beads and sorting them out standing up the bullets all carefully and that sort of thing. I don't think it's really meaningful to compare of processes if you put in all the extra wasted time that anybody can add into the processes. That's more of a individual analysis. I.e. I waste last time when I lubrisize vs. When I powder coat...
yeah, I wasn't meaning to argue or disagree, just to throw in a statement of why the 24 hour drying time would be significant for some people. Good points on the bore riders too.
@@FullLeadTaco no I was tracking with you and I agree on that. Total time and also total human time are both relevant. I think people tend to not count time in set up and clean up steps that they do too. in particular anything that requires visual sorting ends up being very labor-intensive when you do more than a handful. if something just isn't casting right about a batch it's way more reasonable to just figure out your problem and recast the whole batch then to try to sort out the good bullets from the bad. when people are fighting coatings that aren't working right or having to sort beads out from their bullets and then stand them up and inspect each bullet, that sort of thing adds up significantly. So fighting a powder that just doesn't want to stick ends up making a huge productivity penalty. you've done enough powder coating that I'm sure you've noticed how much difference switching out from one powder to another can make. And that can be double the production for a day. It could also be the frustration point that makes you give up.
Wow
That view at 12:30 is absolutely amazing
Man what a view
Thanks for the video
I’m just starting to powder coat
Have any tricks to get traditional lube off of cast Bullet ???
Love living in utah
There may come a day that indoor ranges will not permit traditionally cast lead lubed projectiles. Smoke and fumes being a issue. Powder coated bore riding projectiles will have to be seated to greater depth sometimes excessively if you have a tight chamber. This is not good for accuracy and pressure as you you are taking up case capacity. For fine accuracy I have not seen the highly competitive cast shooters switch to powder coat. I like powder coat it has its place for all the reasons you say. Handgun and smooth projectiles with no grooves. Also if you have a oversized bore you can swage the powder bullet to size. Hey!!! This is something new and exciting.Im enjoying it.
Yup, if anything, it's always nice to have another tool in the toolbox. Powder coating may not be for all scenarios, but it does work great for a lot of people and a lot of cases.
Great video and info. I still don’t understand how you get a .502 bullet in .458 brass and get it in the chamber. Thanks for any help.
you don't size down that much.
I went to powder coating after decades of traditional and tumble lubing. I don’t think powder coating saves much time because I stand bullets in end to achieve the best coating
yeah, if you want the prettiest bullets, standing them up is the best way--but it sure takes a bunch more time to do so.
I stand all my bullets up as well it's just the way I have always done it. Getting the first tray does take some time but on average during the 20 min. baking time once the powder coat glosses over I can have the next tray ready to go into the oven. It is slower and you have to be more careful moving the tray to the oven especially with tall 30 cal. bullets but I like the results I get on the bullets and on the target. It;s my hobby and what I enjoy doing.
You're whiskers tell a story of your age. Keep it up my friend.
ha ha, thanks, and yes, I'm getting a bit older
I'm an old geezer who's only done traditional sizing With wax lubrication.. He only touched on sizing after the powder coating. Though the 2 big questions I have would be do you have to get a different sizer? And beyond that it would seem that sizing of an already powder coated bullet would somewhat Put abrasions on the coating. So does the coating not get stripped off during sizing?
also, running my 270 winchester, 150 gn lino mix, 3x PC @ 2750ft/s.......sweet!
That's awesome! Decently accurate?
@@FullLeadTaco very......secret is 3x PC, sized .278, also cast 7mm (.284) core, pc 1x, size to .278. runs all groves off, then 2x pc, final resize .278...
orig GC grooves gone, now 1.2" of contact, accurate @125yds.....1.3" groups......I also run my TC Contender, 444 marlin, 49.5gn H4198, 200GN / 2x PC , 2100f ft/s........this one is a handful! !......love it! thanks again
Do you get higher velocity with the powder coated bullets
I do both but tend to use my powder coated bullets for "blasting" and traditional lubed bullets for match grade accuracy. I've never considered using a powder coated H&G #68 200 grain LSCW in my Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Springfield Armory Custom Shop or Dan Wesson 1911s. My run of the mill Colts, Springfield Armorys and Kimbers I do. The reason being that high dollar pistol has a match grade barrel. The verdict still isn't out yet what powder coating does to your barrel over the long term many years of use. Some powder coating has abrasives within the compound. Unless you are a thick glasses wearing MDS Scientist freak you won't know what, if and which ones do. Best not to take the chance on $2,000 to $5,000+ pistols and go old school. A $500 GLOCK is another story....even a $700 S&W revolver.
People that shoot a lot try to avoid constant and a steady diet of FMJ copper jacketed for the same reason. That barrel will be shot out in 30,000 rounds instead of 75,000.
Great vid Taco, you'll have ole warthog hooked in no time 😃
lol, that's the plan!
@@FullLeadTaco Buhahahaha 😎
I still use my lubrasizer every now and then, but 95% is PC. Tried the tumble lube and it was a mess having to coat, dry, size and then hope the size die didn’t take off the lube.
Also with PC there’s no sticky fingers or dust bunnies. And I know it’s very rare with lubed bullets, but no chance of powder contamination with the PC.
PC just works well. So many benefits to PC.
What about adding alcohol to the liquid alox? It helps dry out my lanolin when i size my 5.56 casings
well, assuming most people are trying to save money, the added cost with adding alcohol to the mix would not be worth the speeding up of the drying time (for a lot of people).
I like beeswax lube because if I am out shooting and my lips get chapped I can just use the loaded rounds as chapstick :-D (For anyone who doesn't know, this is a joke. please NEVER rub loaded ammo anywhere on your face it is a terrible idea.)
lol
Great video Taco. Do you have any recommendations for hollow point molds? Specifically I'm looking for a good grovless 308 mold to shoot subs for my 300 BLK. So far I've seen GT bullets offer this but not sure what mold they use.
Noe has one, but you gotta powder coat super thin, hitek works better on that particular mold... Or you can nose size the bullets which isn't fun. Is it for an AR15 or bolt gun?
@@FullLeadTaco it's for a DDm4 PDW (AR pistol) has a tight chamber. I see the company MP molds but they are in Europe, go fugue LOL 😆.
What number is on your plastic container inside the triangle I've had success with #2 plastic.
#5 is what I usually use, and even taking a dry rag and wiping one out first seems to generate a lot of static.
Thank you. Good video. I have a question. My dad used to shoot a lot of pistol back in the day. He's been gone 25 years now. I acquired a lot of cast lead 38 special bullets from my brother recently. Anyway I remember helping my dad dig up the lead and melt it and made bullets. Just wondering what your opinion is on these. I don't have the lube sizer and will not be doing competition shooting. Just would like to load these. I probably have 150# of bullets and components for loading. Thank you, Ron Olson from Wyoming.
Are the bullets lubed already? Or are they naked?
And yes, you can load and shoot, then reclaim, cast and then load and shoot the same lead
I like PC because I hate gunked up bullet seating dies from traditional lube . I run PC bullets to 2100 fps without a gas check , which saves another step .
yeah, I have to admit that I do not "love" seating gas checks.
I managed to survive the insidious 'O C D' infection of yesteryear...now, as an 'O C D Veteran', I am drawn to PC'd, stand-up bake cast bullets because of a number of reasons...but since I'm old, I have brain-farts & memory lapses and can't recall just exactly why at the moment....when the Wife gets home, I'll ask her...."She knows everything!"
(heheee . . . ..great discussion TacoMan)
yeah, there is something about the OCD induced "standing bullets up one-at-a-time" which produces the most beautiful coated bullets out there!
@cwlongshot yeah, for me it is a time vs performance compromise... The mesh basket saves time and doesn't lose much in performance... so I avoid the standing up of the bullets except when I want to impress, ha ha ha.
Noticing any powder / lube degradation from contact with the nitro in certain powders?
I haven't but I do want to do some testing
@@FullLeadTaco MannyCA did a thing on it. Wondered if anyone else was seeing it. ruclips.net/video/TCk2-pmXLZQ/видео.html
Do you size your bullets after you powder coat them?
Yes I do
I started powder coating a couple of weeks ago and had a problem with case separation with 45 acp in my carbine. Two cases separated in the middle, not at the case head, which has me thinking that the powder coat is binding to the inside of the case more so than traditional lubed bullets causing greater stress on the case. The loads were 7.3 grs of unique with a 230 gr bullet. I've had zero problems with this loading using lubed bullets. Thoughts ?
Were they the same bullet, sized the same, seated the same, etc...? 7.3 gr is a stout load.
@@FullLeadTaco Sam
bullet sized .452 Top load for 45 acp but not extreme. One case was a new Starline 45 super case. I fired some rounds today using lubed bullets with the 7.3 grains unique in 45 acp case and some with 9.5 grs Longshot in 45 super cases with no problems. The powder coat may not be good for hotter loads. I used the wet coat method for coating the bullets, but I don't think that would make a difference. Bullets were seated the same.
I use pc bullets for my 9mm and .380 without any problems, but they are below 900 fps according to my chronograph. I was curious if you or someone you know might have had a problem when firing stouter loads.
Taco --- I am a new bullet caster and have never tried lubing bullets. I have started in powder coating with mixed results depending of choice of color in same brand of powder. Several months ago I heard that long term storage of powder coated bullets in loaded cartridges when using a double base powder was possibly detrimental to the firearm and one's health.. Any truth to that ??
Yes, different colors will coat better than others, even using the same brand. I usually recommend Eastwood or PowderBuyThePound powders. As far as the long term storage of powder coated bullets in loaded cartridges, I've heard similar things but haven't experienced that directly. Maybe I should do an experiment and throw some coated cast bullets into some containers of different powder and see what happens.
@@FullLeadTaco That should be a good test but the container should also be sealed like a cartridge case is sealed. I thought about using plastic pill containers but wonder about the reaction of the powder with the plastic which would negated the desired test. I have some glass lab test tubes that may be ideal for this.
Do you find that you need to size your powder coated bullets and seat them deeper? I found this on my auto loading pistols in 9mm and 45acp. But this increases pressure.
Depends on the shape of the bullet
@@FullLeadTaco what shapes do you find this with typically? I found this with my Lee round nose molds
Anything that has a bore rider section, also depends on how thick the coating is
I don’t think you mentioned that along with the extra smoke, you’re getting more lead exposure from those hot gases.
Although that can be a factor, lead exposure from the priming compound can also lead to lead exposure during shooting, cleaning the firearm as well as tumbling brass.
yup, thanks for sharing that!
@@reloader7sixtwo yes, people often forget about the priming compound chemicals.
Does anyone know the hardness of the powder coating vs. the hardness of an average gun barrel?
plastic vs steel...
but no, I don't have relative hardnesses for each
@@FullLeadTaco Thank you for the reply, I am newish to all this bullet casting stuff and was told by a guy that has been helping me that he has a book which lists the hardness of the cured powder coating as more then that of the barrel steel, I hate to doubt someone offering help but I am trying to either prove or disprove that claim. Also I have not seen this mentioned but don't you get residue and some fouling from the plastic? Please let me know and again thanks for the info.
Feel free to email me with any questions. But no, powder coated lead bullets are not harder than steel. Just think of them like a polymer or plastic coated lead bullet. A little harder than traditionally lubed cast lead, but softer than jacketed bullets.
Take some time and watch some of the videos in my "ammo videos" playlist and you'll probably learn a bunch.
@@MrChubbyHubby.
It's not the hardness you have to watch out for. Some powder coating has abrasive compounds within them. That is like lapping a barrel over time and years of use. Both traditional lubing and powder coating have their places. For what is good in a modern dime a dozen polymer $500 wonder pistol might not be the same for a 1955 S&W Chief Special pre model 36 or a Springfield Armory Custom Shop Professional FBI HRT/SWAT 1911 .45 ACP with a 4-digit serial number.
Where are you finding decent powder for $10 per pound? Eastwood is more than that for 8 oz in most of their colors...
Powderbuythepound.com
Another thought about the competition cast bullet shooters... Most of those guys are pretty old. well that's nothing against him it does mean that they've worked out a system that they're very very resistant to change. I think it will be a while before we see enough people really experiment with powder coat who are already shooting at that level. Example: We have a local Facebook group that is run by an NRA instructor who teaches reloading classes. He is exactly the sort of guy that R/weekendgunnit would make fun of. he excitedly published an article from the cast bullet association, wherein the author tried out powder coating discovered it was terrible and dismissed it. it was kind of laughable to me when I read the actual article because the guy did everything in the most cumbersome awkward way possible with the poorest quality stuff and got exactly the results you would expect. And this confirmed his preconception. And that was good enough for our local NRA instructor as proof that powder coating as a whole is a waste of time. An article where one guy struggles with harbor freight powder and probably a humid environment from what I could see. I'm not saying that there aren't people willing to experiment who are doing precision cast competition, but by definition those guys tend to be traditionalist. if they were wanting to press the real extremes of performance they would be shooting jacketed at long range.
yeah, I agree on that. All it takes is an open mind to see that there are distinct benefits to powder coating bullets. And I think that as we get more experienced in the PC methods we will learn ways to make the PC'd bullets more accurate and perhaps compete on the top end of the accuracy spectrum with traditional lubed bullets. Time will tell.
@@FullLeadTaco one area that seems very largely unexplored, is alloy tuning for long-range precision. And I'm talking about for cartridges designed around jacketed bullets. I hope to do that someday but it will have a significant time and money cost to get the materials to compare. I'm thinking of things like babbitts... if you could cast something comprable to a 168 grain Sierra matchking the could handle the full velocity and pressure and it cost 4 cents each in alloy, that whole genre of shooting would become radically cheaper. almost all of the serious studying development I've seen has been with traditional alloys. It's possible that there is some potential and zinc too. I've learned enough of the downsides of it that I am less interested in being the one to personally develop all of that though.
@@GunFunZS yeah, I've heard that blending copper into the alloy does wonderous things... copper enriched alloys... Although that will take some serious experimentation as well as a huge time chunk. Time seems to be fleeting at this stage in my life (not quite enough time to get the things done I'd like to).
it would also be cool to get a swaging die set to match a particular powdercoated bullet so you could cast, coat, and then swage to get the perfect final dimensions.
@@FullLeadTaco I have seen top punch nose sizers for exactly that purpose. I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't work on a PC bullet. Just run them in a lubrisizer without the lube?
I use traditional lube because I only shoot revolvers (Im not chasing my brass) and I like to pretend I'm a cowboy 🤠 and colored bullets just don't look the part to me.
use a clear coat. That's what I use mostly these days--you keep the traditional lead look.
The powder used in powder coating is an abrasive material and thus will wear out your barrel faster than normal. The new plastic coating that is also super slippery has to be applied with heat. For the amount of money that you save and casting your own bullets it is not really worth it if you desire to have a couple of bullets it is cheaper to buy the pre-made bullets with the plastic coating. Otherwise I would never use powder coating I would stick with the lubricated bullet if can't afford the factory done coating. Stay away from powder coatings.
I have thousands and thousands of rounds through some of my barrels with powdercoated bullets. I do not see evidence of your suggestion that powdercoating is abrasive.
So what you're saying is: Lube sucks...
depending on your needs and usage...